Episode 183: Chain of Fraud

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Adam Curry: podcasting two point
over June 22 2024, episode 183

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chain of fraud oh, what's going
on? It's Saturday, but it is

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once again for the official
board meeting of podcasting 2.0

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Everything you need to know this
going on in podcasting,

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everything happening in podcast
index dot social and there's a

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lot going on their podcast index
and of course the namespace. We

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are the only boardroom that
meets on Saturday when Fridays

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don't work out. I'm Adam curry
here in the heart of the Texas

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Hill Country and in Alabama, the
man who bakes more namespace

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tags and Betty Crocker does
cookies. Say hello to my friend

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on the other end the one and
only Mr. Hey, sugar. I'm glad

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you're back. Hey, baby. Oh,
that's

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Dave Jones: traveler.

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Adam Curry: Yeah, that's a
homecoming. Yeah, sorry about

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last Friday and yesterday, but
here we are. We could not could

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not have a board meeting skipped
two weeks in a row. So we just

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moved it over to Saturday.

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Dave Jones: They were going to
have a two week Skipper coming

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up soon again.

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Adam Curry: Oh, that's right.
Because you're going on

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vacation. Right? You're actually
going out? You're leaving him

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leaving.

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Dave Jones: We're just you know,
we've been around so long that

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now we're just starting to you
know, we're cruising. We're

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Adam Curry: getting we're
getting jaded. Yeah, podcasting.

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2.0 I missed the first thing we
could chop off the list. You

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know, I gotta live exactly. I've

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Dave Jones: been reading this
book called. is fantastic book

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highly recommended called lab.
257.

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Adam Curry: Okay,

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Dave Jones: you know, this will
No, I don't. Do you know the

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Plum Island?

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Adam Curry: Oh, yes. Yes, I know
all about Plum Island. I think

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that's where we got I don't know
why I'm disease from. Yeah,

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Dave Jones: it's a few things.
Yes. West Nile virus. A couple

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other things. Yeah. It's the
gift that keeps on giving. And

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that this book is about the
history of Plum Island and is

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like the it started off as a
germ warfare facility under the

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under the army. Then it
transitioned to an animal.

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Animal virus research lab. Yeah.
So they said like, yes. So they

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say. And so this, this book that
goes through all like, you know,

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FOIA requests, and all of these
declassified documents, just

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like what really happened during
this timeframe. And then, like,

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what's obvious is it starts out
as strict containment, you know,

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all of these rigid policies
about airflow and positive

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ventilation pressures. Every
time you come in and out of in

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and out of a hot environment,
you got to take a shower. So

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maybe they're showering, like
seven times a day. And then

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like, within about 10 years into
it.

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Adam Curry: I don't need to take
a shower and

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Dave Jones: lunch. Even lunch
right next to an open thing of,

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you know, rift valley fever.
Yeah.

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Adam Curry: Yeah. Buying stuff
at the wet market. Oh,

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Dave Jones: yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Eaten bad. So yeah, the whole

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thing. Yeah. That's interesting.
I, it's hard to keep it up. You

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know?

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Adam Curry: Yeah. So I was in
the Netherlands for for a full

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week. I was pretty interesting.
Actually. Friday to Friday to be

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exact about it. It was nice.
Yeah, it was nice. Yeah, I went

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to visit my daughter, but I also
didn't know agenda meet up and

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there was nice, lots and lots of
lots of podcasts and people just

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nice. He's cool. Did

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Dave Jones: you run into anybody
who was from the podcasting? 2.0

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sphere?

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Adam Curry: No, no, no. Okay.
Yeah. No, everyone. Everyone has

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a podcast though. That counts.
Everybody seems to have one.

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Dave Jones: You didn't You
didn't run into the mysterious

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Satoshis industry? No,

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Adam Curry: I although I did.
They made me an official node

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runner forgot who that the node
node runner guys. Are you

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familiar with

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Dave Jones: this group? That
sounds really familiar. Yeah. So

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I

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Adam Curry: guess there's people
who run full nodes and and they

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have their they have podcasts
and they gave me it's like a

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little knighting ceremony and
they give me this pin. Whoa, a

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node runner. Yeah, I feel I feel
very special. That like a no

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drunk and

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Dave Jones: I feel left. A
little left out. I mean, I want

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to be a node runner. I run a
node. Yes, you do. Don't the

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pin. The pin is cool.

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Adam Curry: Anyway, so I've been
trying to trying to keep up with

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with everything. And I don't
before we bring in our guests,

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should we should we talk about
some namespace stuff because it

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seems like you've had a lot of
updates and I don't know if if

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you if you're up to it. Sure.
I'm updating him on we need to

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do that. And now it's time for
some hot namespace talk. Here's

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the stuff that I wrote down.
Okay, I wrote down ln addresses,

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which seemed like a big one. I
wrote down boost UU ID. I wrote

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down improve the description of
splits and fees, which is seem

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it seems like one we might want
to skip again. And then and then

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some stuff that has been
proposed medium equals radio and

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events, which is coming out of
the I think that's a lot of true

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fans push from those two. Have
you seen these proposals?

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Dave Jones: Yeah. And Nathan's
involved in that right, Nathan?

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Nathan keeps pushing out some
new stuff. So let's wait to talk

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about Elon address until until
our guests arrived. Okay.

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Adam Curry: Oh, that'll be okay.
Yeah. Let's see. Boosts UU ID. I

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saw that. Where'd that come
from? What is that? Exactly.

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Dave Jones: So that's an that's
an older pull request from Dobie

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Das. Let me just go through what
has been added lately.

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Unknown: Okay. That's just the
better idea.

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Dave Jones: Just to kind of give
some context here. Let me pull

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up the namespace real quick, not
prepared to go into the edit.

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Did inspectors go in that quick?
Well, we've

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Adam Curry: been avoiding it.
And you know, it's a Saturday so

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we might as well just take the
pain now.

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Dave Jones: See, changes made?
Here we go. So yeah, it's so far

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with face seven is some of this
goes back to May. But just face

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face seven. So far, we've
formalized the chat tag,

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podcast, colon chat, the
publisher tag with the

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associated publisher medium. And
the added the course medium, to

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Yeah, added the coarse medium to
the list. And which Alex is now

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added course and publisher and
the corresponding publisher L

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and course L to the schema for
that will be sucked into the

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next version of pod paying that
will enable these mediums,

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Adam Curry: that's ce o u r s e
for people who want the course

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as an as an a course you can
take and so that what is the

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main? What is the main
difference of how a course is

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displayed? Or what are the main
parts of that namespace? Have

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that tag or that medium? Yeah,

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Dave Jones: the course is about
the course is a you know, look,

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look. educational thing. Yeah.
So if you're going to take if

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you're going to take a course,
like liquid berry from pot home

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does, right.

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Adam Curry: So of course, so
does it do? Is there anything

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specific that needs to be
specified? In course, or is it

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just telling you what it is? I
mean, it's a different way of

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displaying the episodes is there
what what is because I've seen

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various thing you have to pay to
actually get it right.

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Dave Jones: Yeah, so well, you
would have the the coarse medium

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just just gives a hint to the
app

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Adam Curry: shouldn't just be
medium equals paywall or

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Dave Jones: bad. I mean, I guess
I guess you could,

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Adam Curry: we should probably
have that too. Might as well

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medium equals paywall everybody,

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Dave Jones: mediums, medium
equals you can't have it. Yeah.

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So the course would be something
like, you know, the app just

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needs to know, okay, what order?
Do I need to display these these

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in? What's what's, um, I

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Adam Curry: guess? There's a lot
of these because I guess that's

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my question is, what is the
display? What are the display

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options for a course?

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Dave Jones: I'm thinking about,
you know, there's these sites

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like Udemy? Is that is that one?
Think there's something else?

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Yeah, Udemy online courses,
learn anything on your own

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schedule this like a, like,
there's a lot of these kinds of

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sites where you where you learn
a course and it may have what is

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in the description may be end up
being beside it as a follow

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along or the lyrics, I mean,
excuse me out layers, but the

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transcript may be, you know,
handled in a special way. Now,

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you know, instead of like with a
medium equals music, that

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transcript is lyrics with the
medium equals course the

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transcript might be the outline
of, you know, the of the course,

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or there might it might look for
certain basic ako I'm expecting,

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I'm expecting as part of this
course there's going to be links

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that are important to there
where I can go and like I like

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the funding link, maybe the
maybe the paywall, like you

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said, I mean, we don't know yet
but okay, it seemed appropriate

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to give it its own medium since
it's its own media type. Okay,

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Adam Curry: but doesn't that
need to be defined?

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Dave Jones: Well, yeah, I guess,
but it doesn't mean but also, we

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never defined music as far as
like the details of that music

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was like we all kind of. Okay,
it would be liner notes or in

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the description transcript is
the lyrics. But nobody but

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there's not that's not decided
designed anywhere. So, you know,

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I think I think this is one of
those things where you'd have

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to, we had to see what people
do. Okay, fair enough. Yeah. But

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basically, whatever Barry wants.
Yeah.

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Adam Curry: Well, that's what
I'm saying. So if berries

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courses is an example, then
that's an exam was good for me.

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Dave Jones: Yeah, I mean, it's I
think, I think it's okay for him

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to set the standard on this.
Very cool.

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Adam Curry: Then as so and so
the course equals L what's a

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playlist them I guess? Yeah,

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Dave Jones: like a list of
courses. Yeah. Because they have

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a bunch of he could have a
playlist of course is all about

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Dino or No, Jas, or whatever.
Okay. And then. So then last

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night, I merged in a, an older
pull request from W Das. To add

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a boost UU ID. Yeah, as an
optional value on the TLV

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record. And that was an addition
to the blipped in spec. So

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there's, there's there's been a
UU ID in there forever, where

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you could say, okay, the UU ID
property of the to the record

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identifies a user. And I'm
putting you up and I'm putting

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identifying quotes. I mean, it's
it's a,

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Adam Curry: it's an optional
thing it's sent, right? Yeah,

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right, right.

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Dave Jones: So it's usually just
some random string of

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characters, just just so you can
try to get some idea of

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uniqueness of where the things
are coming from. Is this the

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same person boosting you over
and over is is my different?

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Even though you have no idea? I
have no way to trace that back.

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And

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Adam Curry: this is, so that's
something that would be

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generated by the apps.

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Dave Jones: Yeah, okay. Exactly.
And but so then WDS has said,

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Well, you know, here's the
problem is that if one boost

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generates five splits, then
those splits all go to different

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places, and you can't really
tell where whether it was all

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part of the same boost or not.
Was it three different you know,

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was it safe safe? It goes three
different split destinations?

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Then what do you know that a
rule is the same split that did

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it? Did did it three times? Or
was it three separate ones? Or

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what

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Adam Curry: what is what is the
point? What exactly do we want

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to know with this boost you ID
tracking of what

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Dave Jones: the tracking of of
like trying to determine whether

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or not the whether or not a
boost? Okay, so you on the

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receiving end, you just receive
a payment? Yeah. And you don't,

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but you don't know whether that
payment was part of this was

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just a split, let's say you get
five payments. Was that? Was

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that five different boosts? Or
was that somehow three splits

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three split paying five split
payments from the same boost?

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You don't you don't know. So
like, this would be. An example

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of this would be maybe like, you
have heli pad running and you

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have set Saturn or the Alby
dashboard running. And you're

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looking at both did somebody
send you and you see two splits

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that you think are the same from
the same underlying boost? One

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on the one on each dashboard,
but you can't be first you can't

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be sure that they're the same,
but if you had a boost, you you

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ID, there was a random value
included each time. You could

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say okay, that's the same that's
that's two splits from the same

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originating boost.

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Adam Curry: Hmm, okay. I still
don't quite understand why you

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need that. I mean, it's fine. I
just look at helipad I don't

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look at anything else. I only
need to look at one place and I

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see something come in and I see
the person who sent it I see

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it's a split what the
percentages

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Dave Jones: mean please let's
see if I can find what I

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Adam Curry: don't have. I only
once I accidentally put put the

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same note in twice into a value
block and that was confusing.

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But once Okay, hear it out then.
But it doesn't seem like I mean,

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I don't know it's just I don't
quite understand what it's for.

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Dave Jones: But Dobby das
explained. He gave me an example

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he said my example use cases
this RSS Blue has a 2% split to

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display booster grams to
creators. If both a song and a

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music show are hosted at RSS
blue, we receive two payments

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when a song is boosted during
the value time split. There is

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no exact way for us to determine
if it's a single boost or two.

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Adam Curry: Oh, okay, so yeah, I
got Okay, I see. Yes, I can see

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where that where he needs that
as a whole giving that Yeah,

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okay. Yeah. And

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Dave Jones: when when you
release your album and play that

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on booster Grand Ball, you'll
need it too.

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Adam Curry: I was thinking about
that use case like, I'm not

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gonna release an album. I will
never need this. But

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Dave Jones: if you ever do,
there'll be.

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Adam Curry: Alright. Okay.

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Dave Jones: So then what what
I'm working on now. What I'm

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working on now is I'm just
making my way through the list

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is the Latin is the ln address
lightening address attribute on

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the value recipient in this,
this ended up. I went into this

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thinking this would be an easy
addition. And it ended up being

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sort of a can of worms.

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Adam Curry: Oh, good. Well,
we'll talk about that one in a

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moment. Yeah, the, the only
other two ones that I'm just

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seeing floating out there. And
I'm trying to pay attention to

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what, what Sam Sethi is doing
with true fans because he tends

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to do stuff and, and then says
he supports it. And I just want

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to make sure everyone's heard
about it. Because so one is the

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event, which is kind of an
interesting, I was listening to

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to Sam's tech corner on pod news
weekly review, which seems to be

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promoting his his ideas, his
tech corner. And these as

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issues. And the event. So I kind
of was interesting, because in a

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way, it's like, wow, how sad is
it that podcasters now have the

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same business model as musicians
where we can't make any money.

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So we have to do gigs. We have
to do we have to go out and and

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and do shows and merge with
merch. Yes. So the event? It's

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there's a lot going on there.
Because you know, I heard and I

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think it was easy doing that
with what was he working on that

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with? Said Nathan that it was
working out with Don that with

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Nathan?

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Dave Jones: I could have sworn
Nathan was involved in Yeah, I

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Adam Curry: think so. And the
pod two guys, it just so so you

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can have I'm not quite sure what
it is other than there's an

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event and then you can publish
an event in your feed. Just as a

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separate item. Have you looked
at this at all? Well,

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Dave Jones: yeah, it's like it's
like a Yeah, like, like a

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reference to an upcoming event.
Okay, like, we're like we're

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gonna do. But here's the way I
read it. Maybe Maybe this you've

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read it differently. But here's
the way I see it, is that you

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have an upcoming like some this
happens a lot with podcast. I

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don't know if it's any new
podcasts you listen to. But a

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lot of the podcasts I listened
to people are the hosts will

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say, you know, have a pre roll
and be like, Okay, before we

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start, you know, no, we have a
event coming up in a live show

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coming up in Boston. Yeah, sure.
Honor. 25th Blah, blah, blah. To

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me, this seems like a way to
programmatically put that into

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00:18:08,220 --> 00:18:12,630
the fee. Right, so so that you
so that the player can show you

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and link to tickets or whatever.

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Adam Curry: Okay, so it's a
separate item that that it's

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just an item that has an event
with event information in there.

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It's not it's not linked to a
specific episode, or is it?

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00:18:25,170 --> 00:18:28,140
Dave Jones: It's a remote as a
link is a remote item. Okay.

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00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:33,120
Yeah, to a specific theme in
where the feed is going to be

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the remote event, there's going
to be the lava, so

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Adam Curry: it would like would
be treated as the same way a

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00:18:38,310 --> 00:18:41,490
live item is treated as a
separate entity somewhere within

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00:18:41,490 --> 00:18:43,320
the player. I

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00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:48,480
Dave Jones: believe so. Yeah.
This display of app is TBD. But

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I think the I think a good use.
My mental use case for this

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00:18:53,670 --> 00:18:59,040
would be like Ainsley Costello
has a new she has multiple feeds

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00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:02,640
right now of different things.
She could put this in there,

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00:19:03,270 --> 00:19:08,310
announcing an upcoming show, the
live show, and that would be the

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reference to the feed that's
gonna host the live shot.

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Adam Curry: Okay, got it. Got
it. That's it. Okay. That's

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00:19:12,750 --> 00:19:16,830
cool. That's cool. That was a
lot going on. Yeah,

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00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:19,140
Dave Jones: yeah, there is. And,
um, I mean, I would think that

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00:19:19,140 --> 00:19:23,010
the, the feed that would take
the remote item reference to

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00:19:23,010 --> 00:19:27,120
that feed is going to carry the
live event would also have in

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00:19:27,120 --> 00:19:36,420
it, like, you know, put a
funding tag in a value block and

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00:19:36,420 --> 00:19:39,750
all these kind of, you know,
ways to support it, the live

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00:19:39,750 --> 00:19:43,140
event or get tickets or
whatever, okay, all right. Then

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00:19:43,140 --> 00:19:44,970
linked to the merch store merch.

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00:19:46,530 --> 00:19:48,510
Adam Curry: I love I love the
whole Hey, I will have tickets.

316
00:19:48,540 --> 00:19:51,360
You can hit a pod ping and the
ticket mount will update Mike

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00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:54,630
Okay. All right. I like it. I
like it. We got to figure that

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00:19:55,590 --> 00:19:58,800
the final one that I had which,
which I don't think we need to

319
00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:04,560
delve into but just It's a way
of medium equals radio. Which

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00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,260
is, which seems like which is
linked to a pub. This is kind of

321
00:20:07,260 --> 00:20:10,710
what we're talking about, for
the past few shows about a radio

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00:20:10,710 --> 00:20:13,680
station. And some I got to
figure out what Sam has done

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00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:18,870
there. Because it's he says it's
linking to live items from a

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00:20:18,870 --> 00:20:24,390
radio station. But I'm not quite
sure exactly what he's doing

325
00:20:24,390 --> 00:20:26,640
there. But it seems to be a list

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00:20:29,130 --> 00:20:32,670
Dave Jones: Yeah, so net so
Nathan's explanation for it on

327
00:20:32,670 --> 00:20:38,130
the GitHub would be if a radio
stations set up here, he this is

328
00:20:38,130 --> 00:20:40,710
quite I'm quoting Nathan, if a
radio station set up podcast

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00:20:40,710 --> 00:20:44,160
feeds with a live items for all
their shows, and connected them

330
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,430
with a publisher feed, then
podcast apps could aggregate

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00:20:47,430 --> 00:20:50,370
those live streams together into
a publisher level radio station

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00:20:50,370 --> 00:20:56,760
without any new tags. Okay. I
like it. Yeah, I like it. Yeah,

333
00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,610
wait for it. Yeah. Yeah. No
agenda stream could do that.

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00:20:59,610 --> 00:21:03,300
Yeah, sure. Excellent. Oh, yeah.
Okay, yeah. All those shows

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00:21:03,300 --> 00:21:06,300
together into into nodes,
industry, radio station or

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00:21:06,300 --> 00:21:06,570
whatever.

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00:21:07,020 --> 00:21:09,780
Adam Curry: So but it would be
stuff after the fact or even

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00:21:09,810 --> 00:21:10,740
into the future.

339
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:18,240
Dave Jones: I guess both, okay.
Because you know, you because

340
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:20,760
it's all it's all being pulled
together, all those feeds are

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00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:24,120
getting pulled together into a
publisher feed. Now that we have

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00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:30,150
publisher feeds Nathan's saying,
I'd love to hear y'all discuss

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00:21:30,150 --> 00:21:33,690
the warrants a new medium versus
not is the threshold a tailored

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00:21:33,690 --> 00:21:38,550
listener experience? I mean, he
know that squishy nice. I mean,

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00:21:39,270 --> 00:21:39,780
squishy

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00:21:39,780 --> 00:21:41,820
Adam Curry: is the right word.
Yeah.

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00:21:42,090 --> 00:21:47,250
Dave Jones: Because sometimes,
yeah, yeah. I mean, like, some,

348
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:51,240
some of them are obvious. It
seems to me. Yeah, I think to

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00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:58,890
me, it is a matter of, to me
it's a matter of is this content

350
00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:05,670
different enough than a podcast?
So that the app really does need

351
00:22:05,670 --> 00:22:10,590
to change his behavior to handle
the content? Like, does the app

352
00:22:10,590 --> 00:22:14,640
need to know in order to give a
sane experience for the for the

353
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:18,360
listener when playing this
content? So we for all of it,

354
00:22:18,360 --> 00:22:22,440
you know, obviously for
audiobooks that is the case

355
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:24,750
because you're gonna have to
Okay, now these things, these

356
00:22:24,750 --> 00:22:29,460
chat, these these chapters are
now excuse me, this transcript

357
00:22:29,460 --> 00:22:35,130
is now a literal text of the of
the book, the episodes have to

358
00:22:35,130 --> 00:22:41,160
go in a specific order. The you
know, there's got to be maybe a

359
00:22:41,580 --> 00:22:48,060
page like, what's that page
inside the book that gives you

360
00:22:48,060 --> 00:22:50,460
the copyright info and all those
kinds of there's a copyright

361
00:22:50,460 --> 00:22:51,000
page

362
00:22:55,950 --> 00:22:58,080
Adam Curry: what do you call
that again? So I think the main

363
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,530
thing is keep this keep posting
the stuff on podcasts index dot

364
00:23:01,530 --> 00:23:04,440
social, so that we know about
it, so it doesn't just get you

365
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,830
know, because because then what
happens is, you know, the Sam

366
00:23:07,830 --> 00:23:10,080
gets mad because no one's
implementing this. We have to,

367
00:23:10,710 --> 00:23:14,220
we have to keep making everybody
aware of it. I think the events

368
00:23:14,220 --> 00:23:18,990
tag is cool. I clearly know
agenda stream and by the way

369
00:23:18,990 --> 00:23:22,560
when you publish if you know
that's what I love about curio

370
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,110
caster and I think that's how we
bootstrapped a lot of this is,

371
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:29,190
you know, we were just using
every single tag we had on no

372
00:23:29,190 --> 00:23:32,940
agenda, podcasting, 2.0 mo
facts, you know, as many as many

373
00:23:32,940 --> 00:23:36,600
feeds as I could get, just keep,
I'm still publishing the social

374
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,870
interact tag. So it doesn't
always result in apps

375
00:23:39,870 --> 00:23:43,200
implementing it, but if you keep
doing it consistently,

376
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:47,790
eventually it'll show up. And I
think it has to come from What

377
00:23:47,790 --> 00:23:48,480
are we drinking?

378
00:23:50,190 --> 00:23:54,150
Dave Jones: This is a Waterloo
Cherry Limeade Wait,

379
00:23:54,180 --> 00:23:58,950
Adam Curry: I have a Waterloo
Cherry Limeade here myself. Oh,

380
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,380
Broder the chat. I haven't
opened it yet. I'm still

381
00:24:01,380 --> 00:24:05,730
drinking my gigawatt Coffee
Roasters snap chill.

382
00:24:06,540 --> 00:24:09,570
Dave Jones: It doesn't taste
anything like cherries or LA?

383
00:24:09,570 --> 00:24:14,850
No, no. At all. Plus, for the
if, at all, at all, at

384
00:24:14,850 --> 00:24:17,250
Adam Curry: least, this is the
one Waterloo that actually

385
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:24,180
tastes like something besides
just water. Okay, so anyway,

386
00:24:24,180 --> 00:24:27,180
let's let's keep our eye on that
stuff and just keep publishing

387
00:24:27,180 --> 00:24:30,840
and let people know when there's
feeds. You know, tell it to so

388
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,440
we can keep letting the app devs
know that it's out there because

389
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,780
I think these are some pretty
cool tags. I like it a lot.

390
00:24:37,620 --> 00:24:39,720
Dave Jones: Me too. And I would
I would recommend if you're

391
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:43,020
gonna if you when you post
something on the on the Get on

392
00:24:43,020 --> 00:24:45,690
the GitHub repo for the
namespace also cross posted to

393
00:24:45,690 --> 00:24:46,050
podcast

394
00:24:47,460 --> 00:24:51,330
Adam Curry: because I missed all
kinds of stuff on the GitHub all

395
00:24:51,330 --> 00:24:54,630
the time. And also my eyes glaze
over. Sometimes it's it's

396
00:24:54,630 --> 00:24:59,310
because it's just not. I'm so
happy we have both but we have

397
00:24:59,310 --> 00:25:02,250
been crushing it Cross posting
is important. It really is.

398
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:02,610
Because

399
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:08,250
Dave Jones: here's what happens.
You miss your photo, you don't

400
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:12,870
check it for a few weeks in the
one this one post grows into a

401
00:25:12,870 --> 00:25:17,760
thread, that's like 75 comments.
I cannot understand Yeah, no,

402
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,060
it's painful. You can understand
it,

403
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,160
Adam Curry: I have two more
things I want to talk about

404
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:27,030
before we get our guests in. The
first one is, you know, being

405
00:25:27,300 --> 00:25:30,840
often the frontline support for
podcast index, which I love

406
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:35,640
doing, by the way for as far as
possible. I have noticed an

407
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:40,830
inordinate amount of people who
have anchor feeds, where they

408
00:25:40,830 --> 00:25:44,940
are confused that aid won't show
on iTunes or in podcast index.

409
00:25:44,940 --> 00:25:49,200
And of course, all I need to do
is open up the feed, do a CTRL F

410
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:53,340
and look for block. I think
anchor is adding iTunes block

411
00:25:53,490 --> 00:25:58,170
from the get go with a new feed.
These guys are nasty.

412
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,560
Dave Jones: I've suspected that
too. And I don't I don't know

413
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,110
how to prove it. That

414
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,960
Adam Curry: well. I can't prove
it either. But but a lot of new

415
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,750
people show up and they say hey,
I got my feed over here on

416
00:26:09,750 --> 00:26:13,410
anchor and, and it's not showing
up in podcast index, and then

417
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,920
I'll see that it has the block.
But I'll before I say that I say

418
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,200
Hey, is it showing up on iTunes?
No, it's not showing up there

419
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,290
either in that weird, I'm gonna
ask like, and then you know,

420
00:26:22,290 --> 00:26:25,200
they have to go back and they
have to contact anchor or

421
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:29,400
podcasts or Spotify for podcasts
or support. I think that this is

422
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,710
nefarious, I don't think it's
cool what they're doing over

423
00:26:31,710 --> 00:26:34,590
there. It seems like maybe
there's some little box that you

424
00:26:34,590 --> 00:26:39,000
have to check. I don't know if
anyone knows, like, include this

425
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,040
in iTunes. But

426
00:26:41,070 --> 00:26:43,770
Dave Jones: let's create that
I've created an I've got an

427
00:26:43,770 --> 00:26:47,670
anchor account that I use for to
test stuff and with the

428
00:26:47,670 --> 00:26:51,420
aggregator. And it didn't use to
do that, then there'd be a

429
00:26:51,420 --> 00:26:53,670
recent change. I don't know. I
mean, we're

430
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,810
Adam Curry: not really cool if
they're creating feeds that by

431
00:26:57,810 --> 00:27:02,670
default will not or won't or
should not show in, in iTunes,

432
00:27:02,670 --> 00:27:07,710
whether it's iTunes, accepts it
or not, is secondary. But just

433
00:27:07,710 --> 00:27:10,620
to add a block without letting
people know, I don't want to

434
00:27:10,620 --> 00:27:13,290
accuse them of anything for
sure. But it sure seems like

435
00:27:13,290 --> 00:27:16,620
just the sheer volume of people
who show up with new feeds where

436
00:27:16,620 --> 00:27:17,850
a block tag is in there.

437
00:27:18,540 --> 00:27:21,090
Dave Jones: I think it's a great
idea. Because we I mean, I don't

438
00:27:21,090 --> 00:27:25,620
ingest their stuff anymore
automatically. Anyway. I

439
00:27:25,620 --> 00:27:26,310
encourage that.

440
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,090
Adam Curry: There you go. All
right.

441
00:27:30,120 --> 00:27:33,240
Dave Jones: I mean, seriously, I
mean, after you've ingested

442
00:27:34,140 --> 00:27:39,390
100,000 feeds that are just
crying somebody we did or just

443
00:27:39,390 --> 00:27:43,890
somebody with a with a 15 second
episode. And they never post

444
00:27:43,890 --> 00:27:47,190
again. It's like, I'm not sorry,
I'm not doing this anymore. If

445
00:27:47,190 --> 00:27:50,790
you care if you actually have a
legit podcast that you care

446
00:27:50,790 --> 00:27:53,940
about other people finding.
Yeah. And you host on a free on

447
00:27:53,940 --> 00:27:57,750
a free post like anchor. Yeah,
you need to you need to do the

448
00:27:57,750 --> 00:28:00,990
extra step of contacting a
directory and letting them know

449
00:28:01,050 --> 00:28:04,260
Adam Curry: Yeah, yeah, that's
true. Yeah, well, people are

450
00:28:04,260 --> 00:28:07,170
starting to realize that free
isn't necessarily good that's

451
00:28:07,170 --> 00:28:11,490
for sure with a lot of things.
One last thing because I have

452
00:28:11,490 --> 00:28:16,590
two clips for this short ones.
I'm just flabbergasted by by the

453
00:28:16,620 --> 00:28:21,030
blatant fraud that podcasters
are now putting out there and

454
00:28:21,060 --> 00:28:24,540
blaming, you know, you know, a
clip I'm playing right? Yeah.

455
00:28:24,540 --> 00:28:29,520
Well, I have to I have to this
is the I think not podcast.

456
00:28:30,750 --> 00:28:37,110
Forget who did Spurlock post
this I can't remember it so it's

457
00:28:37,110 --> 00:28:39,630
not safe for work. So crank it
up.

458
00:28:39,690 --> 00:28:43,920
Unknown: And if you are on Apple
podcasts, I want to tell you

459
00:28:43,950 --> 00:28:48,690
there was an iOS update that is
making all podcasters bend over

460
00:28:48,690 --> 00:28:52,140
grab our ankles and take it up
the but if you are on Apple

461
00:28:52,140 --> 00:28:55,740
podcasts and you go to our page,
please click the three dots in

462
00:28:55,740 --> 00:28:58,950
the top right hand corner, go to
settings and just click

463
00:28:59,010 --> 00:29:04,680
automatically download 10 latest
episodes just that will fix the

464
00:29:04,740 --> 00:29:09,540
iOS update that has fucked all
of the podcasters up again go to

465
00:29:09,540 --> 00:29:13,200
the three dots on the top left
hit settings and about a little

466
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,650
further down than halfway down.
Click automatically download 10

467
00:29:16,650 --> 00:29:19,740
latest episodes just that will
help us out so much.

468
00:29:20,250 --> 00:29:21,990
Adam Curry: I mean, that's
outrageous.

469
00:29:22,740 --> 00:29:26,430
Dave Jones: First of all, yikes.
I mean, yeah, yes, yikes is

470
00:29:26,430 --> 00:29:30,300
right. And second of all, I mean
just begging for downloads like

471
00:29:30,570 --> 00:29:37,770
one one stop at 10 Why don't you
subscribe, download 10 episodes

472
00:29:37,770 --> 00:29:40,410
then unsubscribed and do it
again. I mean, like just keep

473
00:29:40,410 --> 00:29:42,660
asking for Jack getting jacked
up. But I

474
00:29:42,660 --> 00:29:47,550
Adam Curry: mean, it's clearly
it's clearly fraudulent. Yeah.

475
00:29:47,820 --> 00:29:52,290
And what really surprised me is
to hear not quite as blatant not

476
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,170
to this level because this was
actually more instruction than

477
00:29:55,170 --> 00:29:58,350
we used to have to give people
how to subscribe to the podcast

478
00:29:58,350 --> 00:30:01,680
itself. You know, that was like
Go to the website, look for the

479
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:06,360
RSS icon right click copy, go to
your podcast application page

480
00:30:06,390 --> 00:30:12,660
and subscribe. paste this in.
She had a lot more instruction

481
00:30:12,660 --> 00:30:16,680
there to how to do this go down
three dots halfway down this

482
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,800
screw with an apple screwed us.
Well, you're being fraudulent,

483
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,860
you're no screwing your
advertisers. I mean, doesn't the

484
00:30:22,860 --> 00:30:25,020
peep the advertisers not hear
this?

485
00:30:26,820 --> 00:30:33,930
Dave Jones: I was recently told
about a situation where I was

486
00:30:33,930 --> 00:30:38,490
recently told best situation
where there was a podcast that a

487
00:30:38,490 --> 00:30:43,800
hat was having its advertising
handled by a third party. So you

488
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:49,260
have you have the podcast, you
have the advertiser who's or the

489
00:30:49,290 --> 00:30:56,220
the advertising agency. And then
you have the podcast host. And,

490
00:30:56,670 --> 00:31:01,470
you know, the podcast, the
advertising agency signed up for

491
00:31:01,470 --> 00:31:05,490
a service that's supposed to get
you up the ranks in Apple

492
00:31:05,670 --> 00:31:09,990
podcast directory. And, you
know, they do this through

493
00:31:09,990 --> 00:31:14,520
banner ads, and all these kinds
of things. This is nothing new.

494
00:31:15,270 --> 00:31:19,590
But these aren't real. These are
these are rewards based

495
00:31:19,620 --> 00:31:22,020
subscriptions that you're
getting. And you get so you get

496
00:31:22,110 --> 00:31:24,960
for every new signup, just like
she's talking about, you get an

497
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,830
initial batch of downloads that
come off our podcast. Yeah. So

498
00:31:28,830 --> 00:31:32,250
the it's a temporary boost and
it's fake. But if as long as you

499
00:31:32,250 --> 00:31:37,200
keep signing up, and re upping
re upping your buy, you keep

500
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:41,280
getting this small temporary
influx of of downloads number go

501
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:45,210
up baby number go up. And so
then the podcast host was like,

502
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:50,670
let let the let the podcast
podcast podcasts are no hey, you

503
00:31:50,670 --> 00:31:53,430
know, these? You know, yeah,
you're getting some downloads.

504
00:31:53,430 --> 00:31:56,760
But these aren't real downloads.
I mean, these are these are not

505
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:04,680
true numbers. And the, the
podcaster was like, Well, you

506
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:08,040
know, that's fine with us.
Because this is for like, this

507
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:14,250
is like a branded podcast for
this company. And this, we're

508
00:32:14,250 --> 00:32:17,820
okay with that. Because this
lets us report the numbers to

509
00:32:17,820 --> 00:32:23,640
the company. It's, it's
fraudulent live. Yeah, it let me

510
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,850
know. I'm like, Okay, so there's
this chain that's involved here,

511
00:32:27,390 --> 00:32:32,970
where the agency is getting some
numbers for the podcast. Yeah.

512
00:32:32,970 --> 00:32:37,620
And then the podcaster is
wanting to show success to

513
00:32:37,650 --> 00:32:42,510
corporate. And so then it's all
just this big fraudulent chain

514
00:32:42,510 --> 00:32:46,590
from soup to nuts all the way
through in the advertising

515
00:32:46,590 --> 00:32:49,980
agency is the love is the worst
is the

516
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:55,470
Adam Curry: chain of fraud.
Well, imagine how surprised I

517
00:32:55,470 --> 00:32:59,790
was flying home from the
Netherlands and I downloaded a

518
00:32:59,790 --> 00:33:04,560
whole bunch of podcasts. And I
play my favorite hate listen on

519
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,800
the media. And listen to what
they're doing. Hey,

520
00:33:08,460 --> 00:33:12,450
Dave Jones: wait, wait, wait, is
on the media supplanted pivot is

521
00:33:12,450 --> 00:33:13,110
your favorite?

522
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:15,630
Adam Curry: Well, did I say
favorite?

523
00:33:16,290 --> 00:33:17,820
Dave Jones: He said he said this
is your favorite.

524
00:33:17,820 --> 00:33:20,160
Adam Curry: Hey, listen, it's my
second favorite pivot. Ken

525
00:33:20,220 --> 00:33:22,800
always has to be taught pivot is
the Tucker favorite. There's no

526
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:24,090
doubt about it. Or listen to
this.

527
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,760
Dave Jones: Hey, this is the on
the media midweek Podcast. I'm

528
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:31,140
Mike Lowe injure. We've got a
great new interview for you this

529
00:33:31,140 --> 00:33:35,070
week. But first, a quick
reminder, if you're an iPhone

530
00:33:35,070 --> 00:33:39,330
user, and you listen to Oh, TM
on the Apple podcast app, the

531
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:43,020
one that comes downloaded on
your phone, please take a second

532
00:33:43,020 --> 00:33:48,300
to click on that app, go to our
feed. And in the top right

533
00:33:48,300 --> 00:33:53,220
corner. If you see a plus Follow
button, click that it will

534
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,220
automatically download new
episodes of on the media when

535
00:33:56,220 --> 00:33:59,700
they drop. So you won't have to
stream the show when you're out

536
00:33:59,700 --> 00:34:00,150
and about.

537
00:34:00,210 --> 00:34:03,270
Adam Curry: Oh wait. It's for
your benefit listeners. So you

538
00:34:03,270 --> 00:34:06,300
won't have to stream when you're
out and about. But wait, there's

539
00:34:06,300 --> 00:34:07,200
more. If you

540
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,320
Dave Jones: see a checkmark in
the upper right corner, then

541
00:34:10,350 --> 00:34:13,260
you're good to go. And while
you're at it, please leave us a

542
00:34:13,260 --> 00:34:16,650
review. We'd love to hear what
you think about the show as the

543
00:34:16,650 --> 00:34:20,910
ratings help ATM and your
feedback means a lot to us. Yeah

544
00:34:20,970 --> 00:34:22,650
All right. All right on to the
podcast.

545
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:24,420
Adam Curry: You can listen when
you're out and about you don't

546
00:34:24,420 --> 00:34:27,180
have to stream it give us
downloads it's

547
00:34:27,179 --> 00:34:30,239
Dave Jones: the same exact thing
except the up the butt part.

548
00:34:32,219 --> 00:34:33,659
Adam Curry: No, that would have
been awesome.

549
00:34:36,479 --> 00:34:40,379
Dave Jones: Hello injury No,
you're broke.

550
00:34:42,030 --> 00:34:45,030
Adam Curry: Hey, we're getting
screwed up the butt here on NPR.

551
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:50,130
Top right corner. All of this to
say there is an alternative way

552
00:34:50,130 --> 00:34:54,570
to receive value for your
podcast at the value for value

553
00:34:54,570 --> 00:34:58,290
model. We've been pioneering it
here on podcasting 2.0 for a

554
00:34:58,290 --> 00:35:04,110
while and We've had fantastic
partners in the lightning's I'm

555
00:35:04,110 --> 00:35:07,620
gonna say it space who have who
have helped build this

556
00:35:07,650 --> 00:35:11,760
throughout the years it started
with Sphinx. Then we had ln PE

557
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,300
and of course lb came into the
mix and there's been a lot of

558
00:35:15,330 --> 00:35:19,620
shakeups and changes so we're
very proud and happy to have

559
00:35:19,620 --> 00:35:25,500
them both here on a Saturday.
Please welcome from Alby March

560
00:35:25,500 --> 00:35:30,120
Kaminski and rollin Berek. Berek
Berek rollin. How do i pronounce

561
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:36,600
it? bealach Buick. Hey, man,
that's Oh, you know, Buick is

562
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,960
bui CK we all know Buicks here.
Yeah.

563
00:35:41,550 --> 00:35:43,530
Dave Jones: That's the giant car
that your granddad drives.

564
00:35:45,179 --> 00:35:49,319
Adam Curry: Exactly. Good.
Rollin. Good to meet you. You

565
00:35:49,319 --> 00:35:53,249
are playing the role of, of
Boomi. Today, Michael boomin. I

566
00:35:53,249 --> 00:35:56,519
guess he he gave up his spot for
you.

567
00:35:58,139 --> 00:36:02,729
Unknown: Yeah, I'm one of the
developers at LV so I can step

568
00:36:02,729 --> 00:36:05,969
in and answer a few technical
questions. I actually wanted to

569
00:36:05,969 --> 00:36:09,989
mention something quickly
though. Because at the start,

570
00:36:09,989 --> 00:36:12,899
you said you've got a note
runners badge is quite, quite

571
00:36:12,899 --> 00:36:18,359
cool because we also met met him
is if at the Bitcoin Film Fest,

572
00:36:18,659 --> 00:36:23,219
earlier this year, he runs note,
he runs node runners radio so

573
00:36:23,219 --> 00:36:26,519
you can actually vote you can
pay with sets to vote for a song

574
00:36:26,549 --> 00:36:32,489
so I don't think is podcasting.
2.0 But but it's a cool idea.

575
00:36:32,519 --> 00:36:34,499
Maybe Maybe it confidence
somehow I'm not

576
00:36:34,500 --> 00:36:36,960
Adam Curry: sure that gives me
more Bitcoin credibility, more

577
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:43,650
Maxi cred, I believe. Yes, I
need Maxie credit. And let's say

578
00:36:43,650 --> 00:36:46,620
hello to Moritz Kaminski,
Moritz, how you doing brother?

579
00:36:48,570 --> 00:36:51,510
Moritz Kaminski: Yeah, good.
Thanks for inviting us again.

580
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:53,790
And they've secured

581
00:36:54,209 --> 00:36:57,449
Adam Curry: Yeah, it's it's been
long overdue. There's been all

582
00:36:57,449 --> 00:37:02,219
kinds of compute misinformation
and disinformation no doubt done

583
00:37:02,219 --> 00:37:07,229
by Putin and his team of AI
experts. We've just been trying

584
00:37:07,229 --> 00:37:14,159
to figure out what's going on.
In general, since a lot of, or

585
00:37:14,219 --> 00:37:21,119
probably every, almost every
single podcast app has has lent

586
00:37:21,179 --> 00:37:27,989
has depended on on Alby for its
its users wallets. Conversely,

587
00:37:28,109 --> 00:37:30,899
and there really is, conversely,
there really are two sides of

588
00:37:30,899 --> 00:37:35,429
the equation podcasters and
artists have also been using

589
00:37:35,459 --> 00:37:39,329
Alby for receiving SATs for
their boosts booster grams and

590
00:37:39,329 --> 00:37:46,949
streaming SATs. And then through
some weird business going on the

591
00:37:46,949 --> 00:37:53,459
United States where it's very
unclear what what the rules are

592
00:37:53,459 --> 00:37:57,239
the regulations, you guys I'm
sure being out, well, we first

593
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:02,729
saw, we saw the French pull out.
And then we saw, we saw a number

594
00:38:02,729 --> 00:38:07,349
of of different wallet providers
leave, and then some changes

595
00:38:07,349 --> 00:38:12,599
happened at Albie. And maybe you
can just tell us, just bring us

596
00:38:12,599 --> 00:38:16,889
up to speed on what happened,
what you did where we are, and

597
00:38:16,889 --> 00:38:19,739
then hopefully where we're
going. Oh, yeah,

598
00:38:19,770 --> 00:38:21,540
Unknown: yeah, sure. I mean,
that's why we're here. Right. So

599
00:38:21,540 --> 00:38:24,960
I mean, first of all, they're
like our commitment to value for

600
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,500
value, and podcasting has, has
like, never changed. So it's

601
00:38:28,500 --> 00:38:34,410
still the same. Since then, when
we talked like on on the same

602
00:38:34,410 --> 00:38:40,830
show here at the boardroom, two
years ago. But like, at Adobe,

603
00:38:40,860 --> 00:38:44,970
things have changed. So so we
experienced quite some user

604
00:38:44,970 --> 00:38:52,440
growth, end of last year. And
this means not like, because we

605
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,440
were like a managed wallet
provider back then, just means

606
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,770
not only a lot of users, it
means also suddenly a lot of use

607
00:38:58,770 --> 00:39:02,100
of funds, right? So quite some
responsibilities here on our

608
00:39:02,100 --> 00:39:09,060
side. And we then made sure that
actually we at a small team can

609
00:39:09,060 --> 00:39:13,620
handle that. So we introduced in
white coats, and we also

610
00:39:13,620 --> 00:39:19,230
introduced limit back then, just
to make sure that the users that

611
00:39:19,230 --> 00:39:22,680
we have that they that we can
serve them properly. Right. And

612
00:39:22,710 --> 00:39:25,590
Adam Curry: and that limit is
like a million SATs and you

613
00:39:25,590 --> 00:39:28,620
encourage people to really use
it as a daily, which I think is

614
00:39:28,620 --> 00:39:31,800
perfect to use it as a daily
wallet moved the SATs off

615
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:32,850
keeping under that limit.

616
00:39:33,900 --> 00:39:38,550
Unknown: Yeah. So yeah, that's
it. That's it basically. Um, and

617
00:39:38,550 --> 00:39:44,580
then, um, but the again, so the
commitment to podcasting tool

618
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:50,250
has never like like changed. So
for example, all the AP API

619
00:39:50,250 --> 00:39:56,220
partners, their users could
always sign up to Alby to an AVI

620
00:39:56,220 --> 00:40:01,320
account without the need of an
invite code. Um, so that was

621
00:40:01,500 --> 00:40:07,200
basically always a free road
there. And on top, everybody who

622
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:11,760
reaches out to us and ask us for
an invite code gets just an

623
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:17,490
invite code. Right? Right via
email, it's just we are more

624
00:40:18,420 --> 00:40:23,340
deliberate on what type of users
we want to build for. Because we

625
00:40:23,340 --> 00:40:28,650
saw, like, any type of users
signing up suddenly for me,

626
00:40:28,650 --> 00:40:33,120
because our API is made it so so
easy to build, right? So people

627
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:37,380
do not have to interact with
Lightning Lightning Network with

628
00:40:37,380 --> 00:40:40,770
the Bitcoin network, they just
have to interact with common web

629
00:40:40,770 --> 00:40:44,190
technologies. And that's what
they trained for that. So that's

630
00:40:44,190 --> 00:40:47,490
why we, we saw the sudden growth
also from other integration

631
00:40:47,490 --> 00:40:53,190
partners. And so that's why we
did a step back and but one

632
00:40:53,190 --> 00:40:57,480
thing also has never changed. So
when we talk about the lb API, I

633
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:04,110
think it's important to mention
that the back end is was

634
00:41:04,110 --> 00:41:07,830
actually always also open. So
you could bring your own note,

635
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:14,130
plug it into the lb API, for
example, without interrupting

636
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:19,260
all the apps that you already
use, so for example, I can

637
00:41:19,260 --> 00:41:23,130
stream sets and send booster
grams and podcasts grew directly

638
00:41:23,130 --> 00:41:27,540
from my own node. So that was
already possible, like a few

639
00:41:27,540 --> 00:41:32,790
months ago, or if I was a node
runner and a podcast with

640
00:41:32,790 --> 00:41:37,560
blueberry or is our rss.com, I
can also receive payments

641
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:43,650
directly to my own node and not
in in in the in the wallet

642
00:41:43,650 --> 00:41:45,570
managed by lb understand

643
00:41:45,570 --> 00:41:48,300
Adam Curry: which is which is
fantastic. Of course, the your

644
00:41:48,300 --> 00:41:54,480
typical podcaster even will not
go to the lengths of setting up

645
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,540
their own node initially. But I
know you understand that, but

646
00:41:57,570 --> 00:42:00,720
the the obviously the capability
is there, and it's great.

647
00:42:04,530 --> 00:42:12,090
Unknown: And, um, yeah, so now
it's instead also what we

648
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:18,120
continue now to promote. So we
will, we have some some very

649
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,060
cool things in the works. And
that's actually also where

650
00:42:21,060 --> 00:42:25,140
Roland is, is basically the lead
the lead developer. So that's

651
00:42:25,140 --> 00:42:34,710
super cool that he can join us
here. But the what regarding the

652
00:42:34,710 --> 00:42:38,490
LV API, it really like it's the
idea is that it just keeps

653
00:42:38,490 --> 00:42:43,110
working no matter what funding
pack and you have there happens

654
00:42:43,110 --> 00:42:46,770
to be an account, you have your
own node. And it's up to the

655
00:42:46,770 --> 00:42:51,660
user what they basically want to
plug in. So the the money does

656
00:42:51,660 --> 00:42:55,860
not go necessarily through our
hands. And with the, with the

657
00:42:55,860 --> 00:43:01,170
upcoming developments, actually,
and not even we make it even

658
00:43:01,170 --> 00:43:05,190
easier. Like it's really another
step. Another level for for

659
00:43:05,190 --> 00:43:10,290
people to use an Adobe account
in, in in a self custodial way

660
00:43:10,290 --> 00:43:12,240
actually understood.

661
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:16,740
Adam Curry: Maybe before we get
into all the new things you're

662
00:43:16,740 --> 00:43:20,580
doing, just understand the basic
limitations. It sounds like

663
00:43:20,610 --> 00:43:24,630
you're you you really want to
get out of the Manage wallet bid

664
00:43:24,630 --> 00:43:27,900
that managed funds business is
that do I see that correctly?

665
00:43:29,579 --> 00:43:33,539
Unknown: Yes, that's our
intention. Because we also, I

666
00:43:33,539 --> 00:43:38,669
personally, for example,
learned. So financial

667
00:43:38,669 --> 00:43:43,589
regulations will get stricter
over time. But at the same time,

668
00:43:44,099 --> 00:43:50,819
we are working on an on a
payment network, which is the

669
00:43:50,819 --> 00:43:54,479
Lightning Network, which has
incredible like capabilities

670
00:43:54,479 --> 00:44:01,859
compared to the current payment
system. And if we would go down

671
00:44:01,859 --> 00:44:07,079
like the road of getting
financial, financially fully

672
00:44:07,079 --> 00:44:10,769
regulated and adhering to these
laws with transaction

673
00:44:10,769 --> 00:44:16,199
monitoring, transaction
recording. I'm not so sure

674
00:44:16,199 --> 00:44:19,409
actually, if we could fully
leverage this innovation Patan

675
00:44:19,439 --> 00:44:22,649
potential that's behind the
Lightning Network as an as an

676
00:44:22,649 --> 00:44:27,059
instant, like payment network
across across the globe. So

677
00:44:27,059 --> 00:44:29,669
that's based, that's, for
example, one reason why we say

678
00:44:29,669 --> 00:44:34,469
okay, let's try it out this way
right now with because that does

679
00:44:34,469 --> 00:44:39,149
not limit us in any like,
technology technological way,

680
00:44:39,149 --> 00:44:40,469
basically. So,

681
00:44:41,069 --> 00:44:43,229
Adam Curry: so just
understanding albies business

682
00:44:43,229 --> 00:44:48,929
then you want to be a front end,
you can use any funding source,

683
00:44:49,199 --> 00:44:54,659
which makes a lot of sense. How,
if you don't mind me asking what

684
00:44:54,779 --> 00:44:58,439
what will the business or what
is the business model of Alby if

685
00:44:58,829 --> 00:45:02,159
you're providing the At free,
basically now, will you be

686
00:45:02,159 --> 00:45:04,859
charging for that down the road?
Or how Where do you where do you

687
00:45:04,859 --> 00:45:07,769
want to insert yourself? Because
you're basically offering

688
00:45:07,769 --> 00:45:11,909
lightning services through a
simple API or through a front

689
00:45:11,909 --> 00:45:16,079
end web interface and bring your
own funding source? Where do you

690
00:45:16,079 --> 00:45:16,679
make money.

691
00:45:17,789 --> 00:45:20,819
Unknown: So that's really what
we want, where we want to

692
00:45:20,819 --> 00:45:25,229
position us as we want to just
remove the away the complexity

693
00:45:25,229 --> 00:45:31,019
and and especially for apps and
developers and be closer to to

694
00:45:31,199 --> 00:45:36,629
apps basically, and bring bring
digital payments there. And

695
00:45:37,109 --> 00:45:43,529
that's why we plan also to
monetize our services through a

696
00:45:43,529 --> 00:45:49,919
premium plan, basically, for
people who want more

697
00:45:49,919 --> 00:45:56,699
convenience, then, for example,
installing their node at home,

698
00:45:57,929 --> 00:46:03,599
there will be a pro plan where
we charge on a monthly basis,

699
00:46:04,169 --> 00:46:10,709
the price is not yet set there.
Just for the users who are not

700
00:46:10,709 --> 00:46:16,139
let's say, technical, capable or
sound enough to spin up their

701
00:46:16,139 --> 00:46:18,089
own note at home.

702
00:46:19,770 --> 00:46:24,780
Dave Jones: Is there a drop dead
date? When when the lb API that

703
00:46:25,410 --> 00:46:31,260
apps like Casta Matic and Banpo
adverse? Is there a day that's

704
00:46:31,260 --> 00:46:34,170
coming when they when those
wallets that they are hosting

705
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:38,730
the hosting for their listeners
are going to be not available in

706
00:46:38,730 --> 00:46:40,230
more and they have to move funds
off?

707
00:46:41,820 --> 00:46:46,110
Unknown: No, there's no droplet.
So we be we might not

708
00:46:46,110 --> 00:46:49,560
necessarily onboard users to
these like, let's say arm

709
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:55,230
existing Albia accounts and
wallets anymore. But the current

710
00:46:55,230 --> 00:47:00,180
users can keep using them. So
there will be there is there is

711
00:47:00,180 --> 00:47:03,330
no date and also forthcoming.
There is no no bigger issue that

712
00:47:03,330 --> 00:47:06,330
we expect. It's just now what we
are currently working on, we

713
00:47:06,330 --> 00:47:14,220
just want to even lower the the
bars even more for other people

714
00:47:14,550 --> 00:47:20,940
to become like a self sovereign,
become self sovereign and take

715
00:47:20,940 --> 00:47:24,090
back control over their own
payments with their own wallets

716
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:27,990
and notes. That's the idea. And
that's now also we're rollin

717
00:47:27,990 --> 00:47:32,580
comes in, for example. And the
premium that these these Pro

718
00:47:32,580 --> 00:47:38,370
Plan comes in, where people just
like basically get more

719
00:47:38,370 --> 00:47:43,080
convenience. When they when they
run these, these these these

720
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:45,840
wallets themselves, do you think

721
00:47:45,839 --> 00:47:48,719
Adam Curry: that there will ever
be because So our main

722
00:47:48,929 --> 00:47:52,979
limitation when so I'm just
putting podcasters on one side

723
00:47:52,979 --> 00:47:56,519
for a second. Just leave those
out of the conversation purely

724
00:47:56,519 --> 00:48:00,449
about the because most app
developers have really not

725
00:48:00,449 --> 00:48:02,849
looked into the Lightning
Network. You know, obviously,

726
00:48:03,029 --> 00:48:07,349
the lb API made it fantastic.
Just for people just up just

727
00:48:07,349 --> 00:48:12,839
code that and you're good to go.
Our biggest issue is the key

728
00:48:12,839 --> 00:48:16,739
send system because you really
need a full time node, you need

729
00:48:16,739 --> 00:48:21,359
something that's online all the
time in order to receive that,

730
00:48:21,419 --> 00:48:25,169
which kind of precludes us from
really using any other system.

731
00:48:25,589 --> 00:48:31,019
Unless I guess Bolt 12 comes
along. I'm not even sure if if

732
00:48:31,199 --> 00:48:33,539
if that I mean, I don't even
know how self sovereign that

733
00:48:33,539 --> 00:48:38,699
will be. But I've seen you know
Chad F for example, has been

734
00:48:38,729 --> 00:48:44,849
working trying to figure out
using the using Zeus and their

735
00:48:44,849 --> 00:48:52,499
Olympus LSP try and connect the
Albea. The lb API to that which

736
00:48:52,499 --> 00:48:57,209
I think he's had some success
with. But the real issue is the

737
00:48:57,209 --> 00:49:01,049
podcasting. 2.0 with value for
value streaming is is really an

738
00:49:01,079 --> 00:49:04,799
onboarding. But an onboarding
for people who don't know

739
00:49:04,799 --> 00:49:08,069
nothing. I mean, we I think all
the people who understand

740
00:49:08,069 --> 00:49:10,889
Bitcoin and lightning are
already there. They're probably

741
00:49:10,889 --> 00:49:13,859
already using something they
probably have their own wallets,

742
00:49:13,859 --> 00:49:16,859
you know, they may be using
fountain in fact, most people

743
00:49:16,859 --> 00:49:20,699
seem to be using fountain. So we
want to make sure that it's easy

744
00:49:20,699 --> 00:49:25,829
for new users to come in, you
know, use podcast guru or pod

745
00:49:25,829 --> 00:49:28,589
verse or just something that
maybe they're already using, and

746
00:49:28,589 --> 00:49:34,529
just connect a wallet to it,
taking them down the path of, of

747
00:49:34,559 --> 00:49:37,619
setting up their own node is
just not going to scale. It just

748
00:49:37,619 --> 00:49:42,539
won't happen. So we're looking
for different ways to make that

749
00:49:42,539 --> 00:49:48,329
happen. And I think that it's
interesting to see what true

750
00:49:48,329 --> 00:49:52,949
fans is doing. As I understand
it, Sam that Sam Sethi has set

751
00:49:52,949 --> 00:49:56,399
up a Super Hub with you guys and
he'll be able to provide virtual

752
00:49:56,399 --> 00:49:59,549
wallets. Can you explain kind of
how that works if it were on a

753
00:49:59,549 --> 00:50:00,779
per app bases

754
00:50:02,579 --> 00:50:05,789
Unknown: are that's that's, I
better leave that to Sam. I

755
00:50:05,789 --> 00:50:09,269
think that's that's a great
experiment what he's doing

756
00:50:09,269 --> 00:50:15,119
there. And I don't know like how
he's going right now. So we

757
00:50:15,119 --> 00:50:21,569
helped him onboard to the to
this new wallet basically. And

758
00:50:21,899 --> 00:50:26,729
he wants to use that as a back
end and onboard people on

759
00:50:26,729 --> 00:50:29,639
virtual wallets. Okay, so he's
Oh, I

760
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:30,660
Dave Jones: think he's

761
00:50:30,660 --> 00:50:32,880
Adam Curry: doing the virtual
wallet part. He's He's taken

762
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,610
care of that himself internally,
and it's just connecting to a

763
00:50:35,610 --> 00:50:37,530
big node that you're running for
him.

764
00:50:38,849 --> 00:50:42,659
Unknown: And we're not running
the node for him. He's running

765
00:50:42,659 --> 00:50:45,899
the node himself. Right. So
that's the idea of, of self

766
00:50:45,899 --> 00:50:50,519
custody. But actually, so I
think for all these users who

767
00:50:51,149 --> 00:50:55,259
are afraid of running their own
note, I think the new wallet

768
00:50:55,259 --> 00:50:58,679
that we're going to bring out is
really something for them.

769
00:50:58,979 --> 00:51:04,649
Right? So it's not, it's not
the, you need to assemble

770
00:51:04,649 --> 00:51:09,689
hardware, first, buy hardware,
assemble it, and then set it up

771
00:51:09,689 --> 00:51:14,909
at home, exited access it
through a browser also, and then

772
00:51:15,689 --> 00:51:19,739
figure it around there. No, it's
really it's it's one click

773
00:51:19,739 --> 00:51:25,139
deployment in the cloud, for the
user. And we guide the users

774
00:51:25,139 --> 00:51:27,269
through this. Okay,

775
00:51:27,300 --> 00:51:31,170
Adam Curry: okay. But it has a
funding requirement, if I am, am

776
00:51:31,170 --> 00:51:31,740
I correct?

777
00:51:33,059 --> 00:51:36,569
Unknown: Yes, you but the
funding requirement is solvable,

778
00:51:36,569 --> 00:51:40,919
right? So there are LSPs
involved, where you can with

779
00:51:41,039 --> 00:51:46,109
like, one, two clicks, get a
channel with a receiving

780
00:51:46,109 --> 00:51:49,799
capacity, and as a podcaster,
then you're good to go, right?

781
00:51:49,799 --> 00:51:52,799
You do not even need to fund
this wallet as a podcast,

782
00:51:53,159 --> 00:51:56,039
because you will then receive
something from from the

783
00:51:56,039 --> 00:51:56,639
listeners.

784
00:51:57,809 --> 00:52:00,209
Adam Curry: And that okay, so
that happens automatically upon

785
00:52:00,209 --> 00:52:04,919
first receive, then inbound
channel opens up with liquidity.

786
00:52:06,389 --> 00:52:10,259
Unknown: And it does not happen
automatically. But it happens,

787
00:52:10,289 --> 00:52:15,989
like on purpose the, we want to
give users the control of okay,

788
00:52:15,989 --> 00:52:20,789
how much do they actually
expect, and also put them in

789
00:52:20,789 --> 00:52:26,789
the, into the spot of, of making
the decision? And also an

790
00:52:26,789 --> 00:52:32,339
economic decision of requesting
inbound capacity from from an

791
00:52:32,339 --> 00:52:33,029
LSP.

792
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:37,290
Adam Curry: Right. So just so
you understand, and I, I totally

793
00:52:37,290 --> 00:52:40,230
understand where you're going, I
understand the vision, I think

794
00:52:40,230 --> 00:52:42,990
it's the right thing to do from
your, from your perspective,

795
00:52:43,260 --> 00:52:46,170
it's totally not doable from the
certainly not from the

796
00:52:46,170 --> 00:52:51,750
listeners, certainly not from
musicians. The knowledge level

797
00:52:51,750 --> 00:52:55,920
is so low is so low, they
really, they're barely

798
00:52:55,920 --> 00:53:01,170
understanding Satoshis over
Bitcoin. So while I think it's a

799
00:53:01,170 --> 00:53:05,100
great solution, and they can be
walked through it, and they can

800
00:53:05,100 --> 00:53:09,270
be made to understand it's not
it doesn't make onboarding very

801
00:53:09,270 --> 00:53:16,920
fast in the podcasting 2.0 user
area, because people are just,

802
00:53:16,950 --> 00:53:19,950
you know, they're just not going
to do it. I mean, it's they,

803
00:53:19,980 --> 00:53:23,040
they, it's just a very high
barrier.

804
00:53:25,139 --> 00:53:28,649
Unknown: I'm, I'm not too much
worried about that. So I

805
00:53:28,649 --> 00:53:31,049
definitely get your point and I
think this is something that we

806
00:53:31,049 --> 00:53:36,599
need to work on like step by
step, automating these these

807
00:53:36,599 --> 00:53:42,449
flows on and abstracting away
things like opening a channel

808
00:53:42,449 --> 00:53:48,389
for example, and that will
happen and we also know how we

809
00:53:48,389 --> 00:53:55,979
can do that but this like one
click sign up, and I have my

810
00:53:55,979 --> 00:54:00,119
wallet. Actually, we have also
already ideas there and there

811
00:54:00,119 --> 00:54:07,469
are still based on on on a self
custodial signup, sorry self

812
00:54:07,469 --> 00:54:13,469
custodial sign up. So it will be
possible where we think where we

813
00:54:13,469 --> 00:54:19,229
can leverage our existing like
tax tech stack to give users a

814
00:54:19,229 --> 00:54:23,909
chance. I don't know for like
under 1000 sets for example a

815
00:54:23,909 --> 00:54:29,789
budget please take this budget
go to pot worse and and and

816
00:54:29,789 --> 00:54:34,319
stream that. And the payment
goes directly from my own notes.

817
00:54:34,319 --> 00:54:39,269
So I will be able to onboard
users that are not familiar with

818
00:54:39,269 --> 00:54:43,769
lightning and give them the
chance to make their first

819
00:54:43,769 --> 00:54:46,319
lightning payment without
actually running their node. So

820
00:54:46,319 --> 00:54:52,439
there are plans for that. But we
will see that later this year

821
00:54:52,439 --> 00:54:55,049
actually also learned if you
want to say something here.

822
00:54:55,829 --> 00:54:59,579
That's that's one of his ideas.
Like like the mastermind behind

823
00:54:59,879 --> 00:55:03,329
it. behind this, this this new
wallet. All right, roll on. Come

824
00:55:03,329 --> 00:55:03,959
Adam Curry: on in brother.

825
00:55:06,179 --> 00:55:10,259
Roland Bewick: Hello. Yeah. Just
before that. You had a question

826
00:55:10,259 --> 00:55:14,999
about these apps that use their
LV API right now, will they

827
00:55:15,029 --> 00:55:18,149
eventually stop working. And
that's not the case. So we

828
00:55:18,149 --> 00:55:22,829
continue to build upon and
support the RBA API. And it's

829
00:55:22,829 --> 00:55:25,589
just the funding source that
will change just like you said.

830
00:55:25,589 --> 00:55:31,409
And so rather than it being
managed by the shed lb service,

831
00:55:32,789 --> 00:55:35,849
things will decentralize. So a
lot of our users will be running

832
00:55:35,849 --> 00:55:38,279
their own nodes, but they will
still be connected to the LV

833
00:55:38,279 --> 00:55:43,829
API. And all the functionality
will exist as before. But as you

834
00:55:43,829 --> 00:55:51,299
say, so not everyone is ready to
invest some money in advance

835
00:55:51,299 --> 00:55:56,249
right to open now and channels.
Or even, even if they have the

836
00:55:56,249 --> 00:55:59,429
money, maybe they don't, they
aren't ready to invest the time

837
00:55:59,549 --> 00:56:04,109
and energy to learn about
lightning and Bitcoin. So we're

838
00:56:04,109 --> 00:56:10,709
thinking of this feature where
everyone who runs the lb, new lb

839
00:56:10,709 --> 00:56:14,609
hub, product, which you run your
own node, you have your own

840
00:56:14,609 --> 00:56:18,539
case, you can onboard your
friends and family, they

841
00:56:18,539 --> 00:56:21,929
basically just download an app,
and with one click or scanning

842
00:56:21,929 --> 00:56:26,969
one QR code, they're ready to go
with lightning wallet. They

843
00:56:26,969 --> 00:56:29,069
don't have to understand
anything, they can make

844
00:56:29,099 --> 00:56:32,369
podcasting payments, they could
even receive podcasting payments

845
00:56:32,369 --> 00:56:37,229
and start their own podcasts in
the future as well. So we think

846
00:56:37,259 --> 00:56:41,159
if we can build the circular,
circular economy, we can onboard

847
00:56:41,159 --> 00:56:44,249
your friends and family and from
there, create more and more

848
00:56:44,249 --> 00:56:48,629
nodes and decentralize the
network. Things will be in a

849
00:56:48,689 --> 00:56:54,689
much better position. So we're
pretty excited. So go ahead. But

850
00:56:54,689 --> 00:56:57,149
Adam Curry: right now, the
biggest hurdle we have is you

851
00:56:57,149 --> 00:57:04,139
can no longer create a current
noncustodial Albea wallet in the

852
00:57:04,139 --> 00:57:08,189
US, which of course hampers our
onboarding. So I'm looking for

853
00:57:08,189 --> 00:57:12,509
and I and I hear what you're
saying. So there will be kind of

854
00:57:12,509 --> 00:57:15,269
like a one click functionality
in the future, I don't know

855
00:57:15,269 --> 00:57:20,339
about 100,000 SATs, I think you
can get most people to put $5 in

856
00:57:20,339 --> 00:57:24,809
probably five euros. So you're
talking more about, you know,

857
00:57:24,839 --> 00:57:30,479
25,000 SATs, maybe 20,000 SATs,
I don't know if that's enough to

858
00:57:30,929 --> 00:57:34,079
deploy a node and open up a
channel with liquidity. But

859
00:57:34,079 --> 00:57:36,959
that's probably what most people
will do just to start off as

860
00:57:36,959 --> 00:57:41,879
their new being onboarded. So we
kind of have this, this bridge,

861
00:57:41,879 --> 00:57:45,629
we want a gap between where we
are now which is here in the US,

862
00:57:45,629 --> 00:57:50,219
you can't fire up a wallet
anymore as my understanding to

863
00:57:50,579 --> 00:57:54,059
no end of the year when you have
deployable product, which will

864
00:57:54,059 --> 00:58:02,009
be very similar or this idea.
And this idea has been around

865
00:58:02,039 --> 00:58:05,009
ever since we started this the
idea of Uncle Tom's node, which

866
00:58:05,009 --> 00:58:08,669
is kind of a racist thing. But
Uncle Tom's node, where you

867
00:58:08,669 --> 00:58:11,129
share a node with multiple
people, and you can have

868
00:58:11,129 --> 00:58:14,729
multiple wallets on it. How do
we bridge that gap?

869
00:58:17,159 --> 00:58:21,749
Unknown: So regarding the lb
accounts in the US, everybody

870
00:58:21,749 --> 00:58:25,799
that reaches out to us, like
sends an email hello@gharavi.com

871
00:58:26,459 --> 00:58:30,209
I will reply with an invite code
in. So that's no issue every

872
00:58:30,209 --> 00:58:36,149
party also people in the US can
create an N lb account today.

873
00:58:36,779 --> 00:58:40,229
It's we just have managed yet to
remove this invite only feature

874
00:58:40,229 --> 00:58:43,889
yet unfortunately, the only
requirement that we have is that

875
00:58:43,889 --> 00:58:47,759
we then help them to get on on
this new self custodial app. And

876
00:58:47,759 --> 00:58:51,629
again, it's just like, we spin
it up for you in the cloud, we

877
00:58:51,629 --> 00:58:55,589
even help you to open up your
first channel. That's not much

878
00:58:55,619 --> 00:58:59,399
required. Currently, it's around
50,000 sets, and then you're

879
00:58:59,399 --> 00:59:04,259
able to receive plenty of plenty
of sets

880
00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:08,550
Adam Curry: purely from the
listener standpoint. So the

881
00:59:08,550 --> 00:59:12,120
receiving side I'm less worried
about, I'm really you know, I'm

882
00:59:12,120 --> 00:59:15,870
a podcast listener, my I'm
listening to a podcast, my

883
00:59:15,870 --> 00:59:19,200
podcaster says, Hey, you can
support us through value for

884
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:23,550
value. This is where someone's
going to make a huge step,

885
00:59:23,730 --> 00:59:27,120
because they're going to open up
something called a wallet. And

886
00:59:27,150 --> 00:59:31,080
obviously they'd like to do that
inside of the app they're using.

887
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:35,280
So that's where you want kind of
like an automatic wallet open.

888
00:59:35,700 --> 00:59:38,130
It's okay if we say hey, you got
to go to get Alby you got to

889
00:59:38,130 --> 00:59:40,020
open a wall. I mean, there's a
whole bunch of hurdles,

890
00:59:40,020 --> 00:59:45,210
including KYC for for funding,
etc. So how many more steps can

891
00:59:45,210 --> 00:59:50,790
we eliminate from setting up you
know, in the new system it I

892
00:59:50,790 --> 00:59:54,240
mean, can I just be completely
transparent to this user? That

893
00:59:54,270 --> 00:59:59,910
all right, I put in $10.40 or
50,000 SATs and that for that

894
00:59:59,910 --> 01:00:03,270
you user, it'll just be $10. I'm
not even thinking in SATs yet.

895
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:08,220
How? How many steps can we
eliminate to make that as smooth

896
01:00:08,220 --> 01:00:12,030
as possible for listeners who
just want to support a podcast,

897
01:00:12,300 --> 01:00:15,030
they're not they don't
understand lightning, they may

898
01:00:15,030 --> 01:00:17,250
have an interest in it, but they
just want to support the

899
01:00:17,250 --> 01:00:18,090
podcast.

900
01:00:20,489 --> 01:00:23,279
Unknown: I think that's that's
definitely a hard nut to crack.

901
01:00:24,119 --> 01:00:30,629
And that's also where we quickly
arrive at the current limits of

902
01:00:30,629 --> 01:00:34,949
the Lightning Network. If you
want to use it in a self

903
01:00:34,949 --> 01:00:37,619
custodial way, if you want to
use it in a custodial way, in a

904
01:00:37,619 --> 01:00:42,569
properly regulated way, then
yeah, that's basically like,

905
01:00:43,049 --> 01:00:46,859
like using another bank account
where you have to sign up, scan

906
01:00:46,859 --> 01:00:54,119
your ID or upload a photo and
such and and do it that way. But

907
01:00:54,119 --> 01:00:57,809
I also think this, this this,
this, this budget feature that

908
01:00:58,079 --> 01:01:04,649
Holand talked about, is not that
far out. So we are maybe talking

909
01:01:04,649 --> 01:01:10,499
about like a few months. So
that's that's definitely very,

910
01:01:10,499 --> 01:01:14,699
very high on our priority list.
Because we see that, yeah,

911
01:01:15,209 --> 01:01:19,439
running your own node, even like
hearing things like channel also

912
01:01:19,679 --> 01:01:23,369
might be for some people just a
little bit too much in the

913
01:01:23,369 --> 01:01:24,929
beginning. It's

914
01:01:24,929 --> 01:01:29,069
Adam Curry: way too much for
most people. And I'm just trying

915
01:01:29,069 --> 01:01:32,579
to find the middle ground. So I
understand it's going to take a

916
01:01:32,579 --> 01:01:35,159
few months. And I don't want to
hold anyone to schedule because

917
01:01:35,159 --> 01:01:37,499
it might take you another year
doesn't matter. I mean, that's

918
01:01:37,499 --> 01:01:39,839
that's your development
timeline. What I'm just trying

919
01:01:39,839 --> 01:01:45,869
to get to is can it be simple
enough that a podcast app can

920
01:01:45,869 --> 01:01:50,969
access an API or spin up a
wallet, or a node through the

921
01:01:50,969 --> 01:01:55,289
app through an app to the Alby
API, require a budget to be

922
01:01:55,289 --> 01:01:58,379
entered. So at the moment, the
listener has to, you know,

923
01:01:58,409 --> 01:02:03,089
onboard, somehow, that piece has
been solved kind of in some

924
01:02:03,089 --> 01:02:08,129
ways, but onboard, and then
everything else happens in the

925
01:02:08,129 --> 01:02:11,849
background, it just a wallet is
created, the user doesn't know

926
01:02:11,909 --> 01:02:15,239
that a channel is open, or they
have their own node, then they

927
01:02:15,239 --> 01:02:17,969
may get some credential, spit
back, don't lose these this is

928
01:02:17,969 --> 01:02:21,059
your these are your keys. If you
lose this, you lose your money.

929
01:02:21,299 --> 01:02:25,589
How seamless can we make that
process? For the podcast apps?

930
01:02:29,639 --> 01:02:33,869
Unknown: Yeah, I think like true
friends now. Does a lot. Does a

931
01:02:33,869 --> 01:02:38,339
lot on that part, actually.
Right. Then we saw this

932
01:02:38,339 --> 01:02:41,219
experiment. Yeah. Yeah. So we'll
see how this experiment turns

933
01:02:41,219 --> 01:02:47,669
out. Yeah, I think in general,
so it's, it's definitely doable.

934
01:02:48,329 --> 01:02:54,119
In in, let's say, more like
custodial way where you share

935
01:02:54,119 --> 01:03:00,719
your, your wallet with others
people on on one big note. And

936
01:03:00,719 --> 01:03:05,789
you outsource things like like
channel management to, to a

937
01:03:05,789 --> 01:03:11,069
central party. And, like in the
traditional banking way, so

938
01:03:11,069 --> 01:03:14,549
that's, that's totally doable.
But even there, then you will

939
01:03:15,809 --> 01:03:20,999
not necessarily enter the space
where you can onboard users

940
01:03:20,999 --> 01:03:28,439
easily on API wallet also.
Because then, in this very

941
01:03:28,439 --> 01:03:31,949
moment, do as an app become a
money service business, right?

942
01:03:31,979 --> 01:03:38,399
So and then it's on you to, to
do the KYC of the user. So you

943
01:03:38,399 --> 01:03:42,149
probably need to then work
together with a regulated

944
01:03:42,149 --> 01:03:48,779
entity, or work together with an
and wallet service, like, like,

945
01:03:48,809 --> 01:03:52,529
I'll be where users particularly
need to sign up for this wallet

946
01:03:52,529 --> 01:03:59,429
service themselves and then
authorize to connect the wallet

947
01:03:59,429 --> 01:04:03,989
back to the app. So then, there
is a different like, user

948
01:04:04,019 --> 01:04:08,189
relationship, right? So because
then it's the liability of lb,

949
01:04:08,219 --> 01:04:12,899
or another wallet provider,
basically, to take care of, of

950
01:04:12,899 --> 01:04:17,339
the the regulatory side of
things and not a not the app.

951
01:04:18,719 --> 01:04:21,719
And I think that's definitely
something that is that app

952
01:04:21,719 --> 01:04:28,499
developers may or may not
underestimate the the problems

953
01:04:28,499 --> 01:04:31,199
that might have challenges come
that come up there when they,

954
01:04:31,409 --> 01:04:36,149
um, just spin up wallets on
their site on behalf of users

955
01:04:36,149 --> 01:04:38,789
and take deposits. For example.

956
01:04:39,299 --> 01:04:41,159
Adam Curry: Do you have any
insight into because we're

957
01:04:41,159 --> 01:04:43,619
talking about regulations that
aren't really there yet? Do you

958
01:04:43,619 --> 01:04:47,459
have any insight or do you just
have a feeling of where this is

959
01:04:47,459 --> 01:04:50,129
going particularly as it
pertains to the United States?

960
01:04:51,869 --> 01:04:54,779
Unknown: Now, I think that's, at
least for the United States,

961
01:04:54,779 --> 01:05:00,269
it's quite clear. I mean, if if
if users do not interact With

962
01:05:00,299 --> 01:05:06,569
the payment networks themselves,
but through third party, and

963
01:05:06,569 --> 01:05:11,219
that's the case, if they don't
have their own keys, then you

964
01:05:11,219 --> 01:05:15,419
are a money service business,
and you need to be regulated by

965
01:05:15,419 --> 01:05:19,499
FinCEN. And you need money
transmitter licenses by, by most

966
01:05:19,499 --> 01:05:22,079
of the states in the US and in
addition.

967
01:05:24,239 --> 01:05:25,019
Adam Curry: Dave

968
01:05:27,570 --> 01:05:31,680
Dave Jones: Yeah, it seems to me
like the the reason I've thought

969
01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:34,530
this for a while that the real
issue on the regulatory side

970
01:05:34,530 --> 01:05:40,260
with all of this stuff is that
the large, the large Bitcoin

971
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:46,740
entities that, that do have the
money transmitter licenses and

972
01:05:46,740 --> 01:05:51,630
do have the correct regulatory
structure like Cash App strike

973
01:05:51,630 --> 01:05:57,690
and, and those kinds of
organizations. They're not

974
01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:04,110
there, they're not providing
the, they're not providing the

975
01:06:04,140 --> 01:06:06,990
they have they have lightning
support, but they're not

976
01:06:06,990 --> 01:06:10,590
providing the lightning
onboarding experience. They're

977
01:06:10,590 --> 01:06:13,620
not onboarding into lightning,
they're onboarding into

978
01:06:13,620 --> 01:06:19,350
themselves. And then providing
lightning as just a side benefit

979
01:06:19,410 --> 01:06:23,880
only at the bare minimum of bolt
11. And, you know, what, that,

980
01:06:24,270 --> 01:06:29,400
you know, what, just just to get
stuff across. And it seems to me

981
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:36,240
like there's an entire sort of
second layer of org of group of

982
01:06:36,240 --> 01:06:40,800
companies like Albea, that are
trying to do more in trying to

983
01:06:40,800 --> 01:06:46,080
really be the onboarding the on
ramp into lightning itself. And

984
01:06:46,080 --> 01:06:49,440
they're not in in you guys are
not getting the support of the

985
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:53,880
larger bit, you know, Bitcoin
regulated back end. Because if

986
01:06:53,880 --> 01:07:00,270
you if you if you had, it's a
lot to ask a group like lb, to

987
01:07:00,750 --> 01:07:04,020
go to go out and get all the
regular, oh, no, this is

988
01:07:04,020 --> 01:07:06,810
impossible stuff. It's not
possible. But if you know,

989
01:07:07,140 --> 01:07:10,590
these, it just seems like some
bigger group could help but

990
01:07:10,590 --> 01:07:11,550
they're just not doing it.

991
01:07:13,980 --> 01:07:16,890
Unknown: Yeah, but that's also
one reason why we do now this

992
01:07:16,890 --> 01:07:25,110
step. And yes, we will like
increase the bar a little bit to

993
01:07:25,170 --> 01:07:31,080
run a new lb wallet. But we are
quite sure that we can lower it.

994
01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:36,480
Same as we lowered the bar, like
two years ago, when we published

995
01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:37,350
LV API.

996
01:07:39,389 --> 01:07:41,729
Dave Jones: Your What's your I
think what we're seeing now in

997
01:07:41,729 --> 01:07:45,209
the just as in Bitcoin as a
whole, just speaking outside of

998
01:07:45,209 --> 01:07:49,709
lightning itself, is with ETFs.
And with, there's a weird

999
01:07:49,709 --> 01:07:52,049
dynamic going on right now,
where you have two things

1000
01:07:52,049 --> 01:07:57,059
happening at the same time, you
have a greater awareness and

1001
01:07:57,059 --> 01:08:01,319
acceptance of Bitcoin as a
financial instrument, across the

1002
01:08:01,319 --> 01:08:07,289
board. And then you also have
credit, just selective cracking

1003
01:08:07,289 --> 01:08:12,059
down trying to send a vague
message to the market, that you

1004
01:08:12,059 --> 01:08:19,859
better play by the rules. And so
there's those two things. That

1005
01:08:19,859 --> 01:08:24,989
leads me to believe that the
future of of this sort of thing

1006
01:08:25,019 --> 01:08:34,349
is I don't know, I guess I see a
downside to just making the

1007
01:08:34,349 --> 01:08:38,489
wallet completely transparent.
So let's go let me let me say

1008
01:08:38,489 --> 01:08:41,279
like this, I'm trying to figure
out the best way to describe

1009
01:08:41,279 --> 01:08:46,889
this if, if you think about a
lightning wallet, in terms of,

1010
01:08:47,549 --> 01:08:52,499
okay, like Venmo, or PayPal
wallets. You know, we all we're

1011
01:08:52,499 --> 01:08:55,559
all aware that those are pretty
easy to onboard, you just spin

1012
01:08:55,559 --> 01:08:58,709
up an account. But if you really
want to do anything of any

1013
01:08:58,709 --> 01:09:01,109
importance with them, if you
want to, if you want to actually

1014
01:09:01,109 --> 01:09:04,709
send any decent amount of money
at all, you actually do have to

1015
01:09:04,709 --> 01:09:09,479
KYC yourself and all of those
apps. It is it's not just a It's

1016
01:09:09,479 --> 01:09:14,579
not just a frictionless easy
experience. There is KYC and

1017
01:09:14,579 --> 01:09:18,179
regulatory stuff that has to
happen on all of those things.

1018
01:09:18,899 --> 01:09:24,299
And so it seems to me that while
we may not like it, from the

1019
01:09:24,329 --> 01:09:29,519
from the podcasting and even the
Noster, zapping side of things

1020
01:09:29,519 --> 01:09:35,399
while we may not like this, it
it may just be a fact of life

1021
01:09:35,429 --> 01:09:40,349
that if people are going to have
a wallet, they need to be aware

1022
01:09:40,349 --> 01:09:44,579
of the wallet as a separate
entity outside of just being

1023
01:09:44,579 --> 01:09:51,059
some feature of an app. I mean
it man it sure is frictionless

1024
01:09:51,869 --> 01:09:59,579
to go and tap a link in in cast
ematic kick over to Albea spin

1025
01:09:59,579 --> 01:10:03,629
up been No, get a wallet and put
five bucks in there into in the

1026
01:10:03,659 --> 01:10:07,439
five clicks. That's, that's like
a dream scenario. Yeah, that's,

1027
01:10:07,469 --> 01:10:07,769
that's,

1028
01:10:07,890 --> 01:10:09,630
Adam Curry: that's what I'm
looking for whether it's your

1029
01:10:09,630 --> 01:10:12,510
own road or not, that doesn't
matter, I mean that that's

1030
01:10:12,510 --> 01:10:15,030
perfect. I'm just looking for
that frictionless part.

1031
01:10:15,570 --> 01:10:18,330
Dave Jones: But see, then the
doubt, then the downside becomes

1032
01:10:18,510 --> 01:10:24,270
of that becomes that, like, you
know, let's imagine that PayPal

1033
01:10:24,270 --> 01:10:27,510
allowed that to happen. Let's
imagine that PayPal will allow

1034
01:10:27,510 --> 01:10:31,590
people to just, like just spin
up transparent wallets that they

1035
01:10:31,590 --> 01:10:35,550
kind of barely even know they
have, on their own back end,

1036
01:10:35,910 --> 01:10:39,420
what you would end up with is
just a whole bunch of sort of

1037
01:10:39,960 --> 01:10:47,160
just ethereal wallets with funds
in them, that end up in limbo a

1038
01:10:47,160 --> 01:10:49,560
lot of times, and people are
just not even aware of how to

1039
01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:51,330
connect with it. So

1040
01:10:54,270 --> 01:10:57,000
Unknown: that's actually what we
were we are solving with this

1041
01:10:57,000 --> 01:11:00,540
new wallet, because that's the
idea is that it serves as your

1042
01:11:00,870 --> 01:11:06,150
your hub. So you maybe need to
do the extra step. But it's just

1043
01:11:06,150 --> 01:11:09,300
one time in the beginning to
make sure you have enough

1044
01:11:09,330 --> 01:11:14,070
spending balance receiving
capacity. But afterwards, you

1045
01:11:14,070 --> 01:11:18,090
can fully you have this
definitely this plug and play

1046
01:11:18,090 --> 01:11:24,870
experience of Yes, bring your
your Adobe account to a pot

1047
01:11:24,870 --> 01:11:30,540
worse to a rss.com. And that's
really just one click

1048
01:11:31,950 --> 01:11:35,790
authorization. And then you can
receive payments, you can send

1049
01:11:35,790 --> 01:11:38,790
payments, you can see your
balance, you can even see your

1050
01:11:38,790 --> 01:11:43,770
transaction lists. So once
you've done just the initial

1051
01:11:43,770 --> 01:11:48,120
step, afterwards, like you can,
like fully plug and play

1052
01:11:48,120 --> 01:11:51,960
throughout the whole Bitcoin app
ecosystem totally

1053
01:11:51,960 --> 01:11:57,060
Adam Curry: understood. What is
can you just what will the steps

1054
01:11:57,060 --> 01:12:01,800
be? Do you have a funding on
ramp as well? Or do you do point

1055
01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:07,380
people to a certain place to get
to transfer Fiat into Satoshis?

1056
01:12:07,410 --> 01:12:12,840
What is what are those steps? Or
do you have nuts? Okay, if you

1057
01:12:12,840 --> 01:12:15,660
have not, I'm just trying to
understand how we can streamline

1058
01:12:15,660 --> 01:12:15,780
it.

1059
01:12:16,890 --> 01:12:20,760
Unknown: But ya know, it's
basically like every other

1060
01:12:21,330 --> 01:12:27,450
account that you create, you set
your password and then you if

1061
01:12:27,450 --> 01:12:30,600
you have already Bitcoin, then
you can just directly open my

1062
01:12:30,600 --> 01:12:32,940
channel, we recommend your
channel partners, no need for

1063
01:12:32,940 --> 01:12:37,890
searching some. So and then
you're good to go already. Or if

1064
01:12:37,890 --> 01:12:42,600
you don't have Bitcoin, then
define your password. You can

1065
01:12:42,870 --> 01:12:48,420
directly in the new wallet, you
can top it up with a credit

1066
01:12:48,420 --> 01:12:54,270
card. And then with these funds,
open your first channel. Okay,

1067
01:12:54,300 --> 01:12:57,000
so there is an in app credit
card top up mechanism.

1068
01:12:57,810 --> 01:12:59,580
Adam Curry: Okay, that's good.

1069
01:13:00,600 --> 01:13:03,750
Unknown: And then theoretically,
sorry, theoretically, we could

1070
01:13:03,750 --> 01:13:09,330
even like if, once we've tested
this properly, and a lot of

1071
01:13:09,330 --> 01:13:15,330
confidence in that we could even
say okay, why not just top it up

1072
01:13:15,330 --> 01:13:18,840
with a credit card? And
automatically open my channel?

1073
01:13:18,840 --> 01:13:24,420
Yeah. So yes. That's all
possible. And that's something

1074
01:13:24,420 --> 01:13:26,190
we're looking into that I

1075
01:13:26,190 --> 01:13:29,280
Dave Jones: think, yeah, go head
to head. Yeah, yeah, I was just

1076
01:13:29,280 --> 01:13:32,670
gonna say because I think that
really is I don't I think the

1077
01:13:32,670 --> 01:13:38,250
issue is less with with the con
with the concept of having a

1078
01:13:38,250 --> 01:13:40,080
wallet because I think
everybody's comfortable with

1079
01:13:40,080 --> 01:13:44,130
that they Okay, okay, now I have
an lb wallet. And I can do lots

1080
01:13:44,130 --> 01:13:46,680
of things with this lb wallet. I
can cook it, hook it to a

1081
01:13:46,680 --> 01:13:51,510
podcast app, I can do you know,
get over here to Indy hub or

1082
01:13:51,780 --> 01:13:55,920
whatever. I think that's not the
issue. I think everybody's

1083
01:13:55,920 --> 01:13:59,010
comfortable with that. It's the
channel issue. Because that's

1084
01:13:59,010 --> 01:14:02,370
the one thing that makes
lightning different from these

1085
01:14:02,370 --> 01:14:06,750
other sources like PayPal or
Venmo, or, or something like

1086
01:14:06,750 --> 01:14:09,960
that is that you have this extra
thing called a channel that is

1087
01:14:09,960 --> 01:14:14,610
just completely inscrutable to
normal human beings are what is

1088
01:14:14,700 --> 01:14:18,090
I don't even understand what
this is. So like, if the channel

1089
01:14:18,090 --> 01:14:24,270
process is even if there's a
minimum of you know, 30 bucks to

1090
01:14:24,270 --> 01:14:28,140
open a wallet. It's as long as
the channel process just happens

1091
01:14:28,140 --> 01:14:31,950
by itself. Yes, that to me, that
is really the hurdle.

1092
01:14:33,090 --> 01:14:35,310
Adam Curry: And even just
knowing there's a chat, I love

1093
01:14:35,310 --> 01:14:39,000
the business model. I understand
that now. You get your Albea

1094
01:14:39,420 --> 01:14:43,230
your your Alby is your own node,
your sovereign, you have your

1095
01:14:43,230 --> 01:14:46,770
keys, you lose that you're
screwed, but you can and what

1096
01:14:46,770 --> 01:14:50,400
albies business model will be
doing is you will be connecting

1097
01:14:50,400 --> 01:14:56,190
to every other app necessary in
the entire lightning ecosystem.

1098
01:14:56,430 --> 01:14:59,520
Anything you want. You'll you'll
make sure you can make the

1099
01:14:59,520 --> 01:15:02,340
connection So whether you want
to connect it to your your

1100
01:15:02,340 --> 01:15:06,780
noster app to your podcast app
to your McDonald's app, whatever

1101
01:15:06,780 --> 01:15:09,420
it is, you guys will provide
that. And then you'll have

1102
01:15:09,420 --> 01:15:12,060
different service levels and
different capabilities. And

1103
01:15:12,060 --> 01:15:14,460
that's where you come in with
your premium. I totally get it.

1104
01:15:15,990 --> 01:15:20,130
So the questions are, how
seamless can we, as Dave said,

1105
01:15:20,130 --> 01:15:23,310
can you just make the top it up,
and then I send a payment, so I

1106
01:15:23,310 --> 01:15:27,030
have what you call the budget.
So minimum top up, if it could

1107
01:15:27,030 --> 01:15:29,910
be 10 bucks or 10 euros, that'd
be fantastic. I don't know if

1108
01:15:29,910 --> 01:15:34,680
that's enough, it has to be more
than it is what it is. And that

1109
01:15:34,710 --> 01:15:38,070
automatically opens the channel
for my first payment, or with my

1110
01:15:38,070 --> 01:15:42,450
first payment, the channel opens
up, instead of, hey, I'm funding

1111
01:15:42,450 --> 01:15:46,110
a channel, what am I really
doing? You know what I mean? If

1112
01:15:46,110 --> 01:15:50,790
we can obfuscate those pieces,
unless you have the, unless

1113
01:15:50,790 --> 01:15:53,910
you're an advanced user, and you
need to know it, I think that

1114
01:15:53,910 --> 01:15:56,490
would be great for us. And it'd
be great for you to probably,

1115
01:15:57,870 --> 01:16:00,120
Unknown: definitely so. And
there's also another idea, for

1116
01:16:00,120 --> 01:16:07,050
example, since we want to have a
budget to automatically create a

1117
01:16:07,050 --> 01:16:11,880
channel for for the user. The
downside here is a little bit

1118
01:16:12,750 --> 01:16:17,280
that we would do like an upfront
commitment, because we wouldn't

1119
01:16:17,280 --> 01:16:22,080
need to pay for this channel.
Right. And, and then if if the

1120
01:16:22,080 --> 01:16:29,790
user churns quickly, from the
wallet away again, then we

1121
01:16:29,790 --> 01:16:34,620
cannot recover the costs
basically. So we need to still

1122
01:16:34,620 --> 01:16:41,250
think a little bit how we can
make that in a way that we do

1123
01:16:41,250 --> 01:16:46,980
not take too much risk here as a
as a as a small startup. But so

1124
01:16:46,980 --> 01:16:52,320
there are really various ways,
or levers that we can use,

1125
01:16:52,350 --> 01:16:55,920
actually, to bring the barriers
down even even further. Here's

1126
01:16:55,920 --> 01:16:59,280
Adam Curry: an idea. Because I
still feel like in chat F says

1127
01:16:59,280 --> 01:17:01,410
we're focused too much on the
channel. But the channel thing

1128
01:17:01,440 --> 01:17:04,800
is the thing that's the problem,
people don't understand this.

1129
01:17:05,160 --> 01:17:09,090
They understand Venmo they don't
even I mean, even the currently

1130
01:17:09,090 --> 01:17:12,270
the whole send me an invoice so
it can pay your invoices already

1131
01:17:12,270 --> 01:17:15,150
foreign to people is very
complicated to people who are

1132
01:17:15,150 --> 01:17:24,900
used to Venmo and PayPal. What
if podcasts index, for podcast

1133
01:17:24,900 --> 01:17:32,370
wallets only functioned as the
liquidity provider. So and not

1134
01:17:32,370 --> 01:17:36,810
for podcasters. But for podcast
wallets for people who are

1135
01:17:37,140 --> 01:17:43,020
purely thinking of sending,
sending. Yeah, listeners, can we

1136
01:17:43,050 --> 01:17:45,270
because we have a pretty good
node, you know, we could even

1137
01:17:45,270 --> 01:17:48,120
set up a separate node with a
fat pipe, we've got liquidity.

1138
01:17:48,390 --> 01:17:52,860
We've got good connections. Is
there a way that we could bridge

1139
01:17:52,860 --> 01:17:55,830
this for a while so that because
we don't need to make profit you

1140
01:17:55,830 --> 01:17:59,820
guys do? Can we bridge this and
we provide the liquidity? We

1141
01:17:59,820 --> 01:18:03,300
provide a 5050 channel, for
example, when someone spins up a

1142
01:18:03,300 --> 01:18:05,070
wallet or is that too
complicated?

1143
01:18:08,880 --> 01:18:13,050
Unknown: So you this would mean
if someone would sign up through

1144
01:18:13,080 --> 01:18:18,630
podres, podcast, guru or custom
Matic, for example. We know

1145
01:18:18,630 --> 01:18:22,830
somehow this person is
interested in in listening to

1146
01:18:22,830 --> 01:18:27,390
podcasts and and making value
for value payments. And then in

1147
01:18:27,390 --> 01:18:31,620
this moment, for example, we
could request a channel from you

1148
01:18:32,940 --> 01:18:35,880
to give this user some initial
balance basically on that,

1149
01:18:36,180 --> 01:18:41,040
actually, yeah, I think it's, we
should think about that actually

1150
01:18:41,040 --> 01:18:42,900
is like this idea. And

1151
01:18:42,900 --> 01:18:45,150
Dave Jones: we open it we open
the channel and then essentially

1152
01:18:45,150 --> 01:18:51,870
push push to the other side.
Yeah, I mean, that I think, I

1153
01:18:51,870 --> 01:18:54,210
mean, yeah, definitely made me
mad. I've talked about doing

1154
01:18:54,210 --> 01:18:57,270
that. I mean, it's it's a, it's
a thing that are noticed

1155
01:18:57,270 --> 01:19:00,330
sitting, you know, sitting
there, it is well connected and

1156
01:19:00,330 --> 01:19:05,040
well funded. So I mean, I think
it makes sense to help to help

1157
01:19:05,370 --> 01:19:10,740
people out with this on the
podcasting side, at least until,

1158
01:19:11,130 --> 01:19:14,340
you know, until I think there
can be like I said, I'm not I'm

1159
01:19:14,340 --> 01:19:18,300
not too concerned about the
minimum balances and that kind

1160
01:19:18,300 --> 01:19:20,610
of thing. Those all I think
those are all not a big deal.

1161
01:19:21,150 --> 01:19:25,080
It's really, it really is this
channel problem. That's, that's

1162
01:19:25,080 --> 01:19:28,920
the thing that just you start
talking about channels and

1163
01:19:28,920 --> 01:19:31,770
people just they just don't
understand what you're talking

1164
01:19:31,770 --> 01:19:32,190
about.

1165
01:19:34,650 --> 01:19:38,370
Unknown: Yeah, but like, here's
one question that I have. So I

1166
01:19:38,370 --> 01:19:41,310
mean, that's always a little bit
of a strategic decision that we

1167
01:19:41,970 --> 01:19:46,380
because there are ways to
automate these things like like

1168
01:19:46,380 --> 01:19:51,810
channel management with some
like lightning so as providers,

1169
01:19:51,810 --> 01:19:57,270
but we, so far we said okay, we
just want to make sure people's

1170
01:19:57,300 --> 01:20:04,020
wallet work out and they are not
crept into a text, like

1171
01:20:04,050 --> 01:20:08,490
lightning service provider,
where then in times of high,

1172
01:20:08,550 --> 01:20:13,110
high on chain fees, they have to
constantly open new channels,

1173
01:20:13,650 --> 01:20:17,790
and then end up with five
channels, but might even need to

1174
01:20:17,790 --> 01:20:22,680
open up a six channel, because
they still cannot receive funds

1175
01:20:22,710 --> 01:20:28,440
higher than 250,000 sets, for
example, so they don't have this

1176
01:20:28,440 --> 01:20:33,390
control. And I wonder, okay, do
they? Should we give them the

1177
01:20:33,390 --> 01:20:42,600
control? Or should we really
automated fully for them? Yeah,

1178
01:20:43,110 --> 01:20:47,670
Adam Curry: I mean, that's
interest, I feel that it feels

1179
01:20:47,670 --> 01:20:52,170
like podcasting can be a great
onboarding mechanism to what all

1180
01:20:52,170 --> 01:20:57,270
of Lb provides. So, as as
lightning becomes more

1181
01:20:57,270 --> 01:21:01,680
integrated into normal life.
There'll be more and more and I

1182
01:21:01,680 --> 01:21:05,550
think that's your vision, more
and more reasons to have your

1183
01:21:05,550 --> 01:21:08,670
own know that you can connect to
all these different services and

1184
01:21:08,670 --> 01:21:12,930
apps that are out there. But to
bring them in, you're going to

1185
01:21:12,930 --> 01:21:16,800
need something really, really
simple. And I mean, Dave, and I

1186
01:21:16,800 --> 01:21:21,540
have also considered is where to
bridge something, just because

1187
01:21:21,540 --> 01:21:23,310
we don't want to lose the
momentum, we're losing

1188
01:21:23,310 --> 01:21:29,280
incredible momentum now, just by
not making the wallet process

1189
01:21:29,310 --> 01:21:35,250
easy for listeners is, I mean,
in essence, you know, we would

1190
01:21:35,250 --> 01:21:38,400
be happy if we could just
provide a node with liquidity.

1191
01:21:38,670 --> 01:21:43,290
And for a certain period, you
know, even just act as a as a as

1192
01:21:43,290 --> 01:21:47,220
a custodial service, just to
keep the momentum going, and

1193
01:21:47,220 --> 01:21:50,130
then hopefully switch people
over to their own notes as they

1194
01:21:50,130 --> 01:21:54,270
go along. Because we can't do
that forever. But we certainly

1195
01:21:54,600 --> 01:21:58,590
feel like we can assume some of
that risk in podcasting only.

1196
01:22:00,420 --> 01:22:02,730
Which is very different from me,
because I understand what was

1197
01:22:02,730 --> 01:22:04,830
happening with you guys.
Everyone's just Oh, get a free

1198
01:22:04,830 --> 01:22:08,760
wallet here. And then everybody
in the grandmas just signing up.

1199
01:22:09,000 --> 01:22:15,420
But if we're just only providing
this for, for the podcast apps,

1200
01:22:15,960 --> 01:22:19,020
that may be another avenue to
go. But I don't know if you

1201
01:22:19,020 --> 01:22:23,520
could provide like a white label
service for for podcasting. That

1202
01:22:23,520 --> 01:22:26,910
would only be for podcast apps.
Does that make sense?

1203
01:22:31,380 --> 01:22:32,100
Unknown: Yeah, go ahead.

1204
01:22:32,130 --> 01:22:36,900
Sorry, if I can jump in here. I
think this Uncle Tom, so we call

1205
01:22:36,900 --> 01:22:42,630
it uncle Jim's idea perfectly
fits here. And it should be able

1206
01:22:42,630 --> 01:22:45,930
to connect. So if you run an LP
hub, you can actually connect to

1207
01:22:45,930 --> 01:22:49,170
an external lightning node. So
you should be able to connect.

1208
01:22:49,920 --> 01:22:54,840
So run boot up and your lb hub,
connect to your existing node,

1209
01:22:54,840 --> 01:22:58,530
and you'll be able to set up
these connections for people who

1210
01:22:58,740 --> 01:23:02,580
connect with different
podcasting apps. Regulatory

1211
01:23:02,580 --> 01:23:06,360
wise, I don't know. But
technically, I think it should

1212
01:23:06,360 --> 01:23:09,900
be possible. And it's a really
exciting idea to consider. So

1213
01:23:10,500 --> 01:23:11,580
Mark, sorry, go ahead.

1214
01:23:13,530 --> 01:23:18,210
Dave Jones: Rollin. Can you talk
about that? Because I'm not sure

1215
01:23:18,210 --> 01:23:22,290
what you the lb hub? Yeah, the
lb hub? Can you just describe

1216
01:23:22,290 --> 01:23:23,130
what that is?

1217
01:23:25,770 --> 01:23:29,970
Unknown: Yeah, so it's, um,
it's, it's not a it's not a

1218
01:23:29,970 --> 01:23:32,940
typical Wallet. So if you if you
think of a typical wallet, right

1219
01:23:32,940 --> 01:23:35,370
that you start on your phone,
and you send and receive

1220
01:23:35,370 --> 01:23:40,200
payments. It's it's not that
it's something completely

1221
01:23:40,200 --> 01:23:44,640
different. It's completely
revolutionary, is basically what

1222
01:23:44,640 --> 01:23:48,120
you get with the lb account,
right. But now you are fully

1223
01:23:48,120 --> 01:23:52,470
self sovereign. So you have one
wallet, and you can connect to

1224
01:23:52,920 --> 01:23:55,830
all your different apps, you'll
have one balance, you don't need

1225
01:23:55,830 --> 01:23:59,400
to have multiple balances and
different apps. And you can have

1226
01:23:59,430 --> 01:24:02,310
permission control. For every
single app, you can choose how

1227
01:24:02,310 --> 01:24:06,060
much you want to spend, how much
control the app has over your

1228
01:24:06,060 --> 01:24:09,690
wallet, basically, similar to
how it works with the LV API.

1229
01:24:10,290 --> 01:24:13,200
And the really cool thing is
just like they'll be extension,

1230
01:24:14,010 --> 01:24:19,170
you can choose a funding source
for lb hub. So by default, we,

1231
01:24:19,590 --> 01:24:23,160
we embed a node directly into
the lb hub. And so you can

1232
01:24:23,160 --> 01:24:26,490
launch it in the cloud with a
few clicks get started, ready to

1233
01:24:26,490 --> 01:24:29,850
go. And that's great. But you
can also connect to an external

1234
01:24:29,850 --> 01:24:36,360
mining node as well, but get the
existing functionality. Does

1235
01:24:36,360 --> 01:24:38,940
this kind of as your question,
yeah, yeah.

1236
01:24:38,940 --> 01:24:44,880
Dave Jones: So you're saying
that, that the lb hub is lb hub

1237
01:24:44,880 --> 01:24:51,780
is just a sort of a connector
either to your own node or a

1238
01:24:51,780 --> 01:24:56,730
node that's running that Albea
spins up for you. So you can you

1239
01:24:56,730 --> 01:25:01,380
can connect it either way on the
back end, sort of like It's sort

1240
01:25:01,380 --> 01:25:04,650
of like green, like a green
light type node service.

1241
01:25:06,750 --> 01:25:09,630
Unknown: Yeah, if lanes, so it's
slightly different to green

1242
01:25:09,630 --> 01:25:14,700
light, which will launch on the
fly, right? It will normally

1243
01:25:14,700 --> 01:25:17,370
it's off. But if it detects an
incoming payment, it will be

1244
01:25:17,430 --> 01:25:21,330
booted up, to receive the
payment, and then all shut down

1245
01:25:21,330 --> 01:25:26,040
again to save resources. But
ours is a bit different. We, we

1246
01:25:26,040 --> 01:25:30,150
believe that we want lightning
fast payments, we want an always

1247
01:25:30,150 --> 01:25:33,870
online service. We want to be
able to receive keys in payments

1248
01:25:33,870 --> 01:25:38,010
at any time for podcasting. So
this is our focus in This Boy's

1249
01:25:38,010 --> 01:25:42,330
online wallet service that
powers all of your apps, embeds

1250
01:25:42,330 --> 01:25:48,090
lightning into your daily life.
It just feels innocent, right?

1251
01:25:48,120 --> 01:25:51,210
Seamless attaching lightning
payments, to user interactions,

1252
01:25:51,210 --> 01:25:54,120
all those amazing things that we
can do in the future.

1253
01:25:54,840 --> 01:25:57,900
Dave Jones: So that node is that
and then node is always running

1254
01:25:57,900 --> 01:25:58,230
then.

1255
01:25:59,670 --> 01:26:03,450
Unknown: Yes, that's that's the
case. And this comes with costs,

1256
01:26:03,450 --> 01:26:08,910
but it's part of our premium l
lb Pro Plan, you would, you

1257
01:26:08,910 --> 01:26:12,930
would basically get this for
free. But you can also post lb

1258
01:26:12,930 --> 01:26:16,980
have locally, you can you can
run it on your own virtual

1259
01:26:16,980 --> 01:26:19,860
machine or server, if you have
one, you can run it as a desktop

1260
01:26:19,860 --> 01:26:23,010
app, if you have a computer
that's always online, boys,

1261
01:26:23,490 --> 01:26:27,870
boys, you know, turned on. Or
you can even run it on Raspberry

1262
01:26:27,870 --> 01:26:32,310
Pi. So we're trying to do it as
give as many options to users to

1263
01:26:32,340 --> 01:26:36,000
pick what best works for them.
And they can always migrator

1264
01:26:36,000 --> 01:26:41,640
that anytime. If they think now
I bought some hardware, I can

1265
01:26:41,640 --> 01:26:44,550
move my nose or the opposite. If
they want an easier, more

1266
01:26:44,550 --> 01:26:46,650
convenient option, they can run
it in the cloud.

1267
01:26:48,810 --> 01:26:51,300
Adam Curry: But you bet can you
run virtual wallets on that

1268
01:26:51,300 --> 01:26:52,920
similar to like ln bit?

1269
01:26:55,710 --> 01:27:00,450
Unknown: Currently, no. But this
is the next feature we're we're

1270
01:27:00,450 --> 01:27:05,910
planning to look at. Because, as
we talked about, is

1271
01:27:05,940 --> 01:27:09,390
fundamentally two different
types of users, right? One who

1272
01:27:09,420 --> 01:27:13,500
understands Bitcoin, they can
open channels, and they can

1273
01:27:13,500 --> 01:27:16,500
manage this. Whereas another
user, as you said, they don't

1274
01:27:16,500 --> 01:27:18,900
even they barely know the
difference between sets and

1275
01:27:18,900 --> 01:27:25,380
Bitcoin, right? And they were
you lightning is very difficult,

1276
01:27:25,380 --> 01:27:29,730
right? You can completely hide
the Lightning Network and

1277
01:27:29,730 --> 01:27:32,550
channels, everything from these
users. And that's why we think

1278
01:27:32,550 --> 01:27:37,980
we need this. This other idea
where you know that Uncle Tom

1279
01:27:37,980 --> 01:27:41,340
Uncle Jim idea, I think fits
very well in this in this case.

1280
01:27:41,940 --> 01:27:44,430
And because we can launch with
these LV hubs all over the

1281
01:27:44,430 --> 01:27:51,390
world, we still have a much more
decentralized system than

1282
01:27:51,390 --> 01:27:56,040
having, you know, one wallet of
Satoshi one, one blink sort of

1283
01:27:56,040 --> 01:28:00,120
thing where people are worried
about regulation, and, and all

1284
01:28:00,120 --> 01:28:04,620
these these sorts of things. So
we think we're in a much better

1285
01:28:04,620 --> 01:28:06,180
position going forward.

1286
01:28:07,470 --> 01:28:10,770
Adam Curry: I'm just not, I'm
not understanding the hub

1287
01:28:11,130 --> 01:28:14,790
entirely, because you what I
understand under an Uncle Jim or

1288
01:28:14,820 --> 01:28:17,280
it's much funnier in America to
say Uncle Tom for all bunch of

1289
01:28:17,280 --> 01:28:22,650
racist reasons. When we say
Uncle Tom hub, that means we're

1290
01:28:22,650 --> 01:28:26,520
node, that means that there's a
node, and it has channels that

1291
01:28:26,520 --> 01:28:31,140
has liquidity. And someone can
connect to that and have their

1292
01:28:31,140 --> 01:28:36,840
own accounting of SATs that they
are using and they put in and or

1293
01:28:36,870 --> 01:28:39,930
alternatively receive, are we
talking about the same thing

1294
01:28:39,930 --> 01:28:42,570
with the lb hub, because it
sounds like it isn't quite the

1295
01:28:42,570 --> 01:28:43,020
same.

1296
01:28:44,670 --> 01:28:48,360
Unknown: It's quite similar. You
can think, say you had five

1297
01:28:48,360 --> 01:28:51,090
different podcasting apps and
you would connect them to your

1298
01:28:51,090 --> 01:28:54,240
lb heartbreak. And you can give
different permissions to each

1299
01:28:54,240 --> 01:28:57,900
app, maybe one app can send
100,000 sets per month and the

1300
01:28:57,900 --> 01:29:01,290
different one continue to send
10,000 sets per month. But you

1301
01:29:01,290 --> 01:29:04,860
can actually also create another
app connection, which is

1302
01:29:04,860 --> 01:29:08,490
actually not for an app, but for
a new user, or your friend or

1303
01:29:08,490 --> 01:29:12,210
your family member. And they
have this connection, which then

1304
01:29:12,210 --> 01:29:18,150
they can use again to connect
all these apps. This This

1305
01:29:18,150 --> 01:29:21,570
connection is powered by your
node and your channels,

1306
01:29:21,600 --> 01:29:25,080
everything's that's managed by
you. It's your responsibility to

1307
01:29:25,440 --> 01:29:28,050
make sure that your friends and
family have a good experience.

1308
01:29:28,080 --> 01:29:30,270
Adam Curry: But what do they
have? Do they have their own

1309
01:29:30,270 --> 01:29:33,450
accounting their own their own
valid accounting, their own

1310
01:29:33,450 --> 01:29:35,760
balance? Or is it just
whatever's on the node?

1311
01:29:37,230 --> 01:29:39,780
Unknown: They will have their
own accounting on transaction

1312
01:29:39,780 --> 01:29:43,830
lists on balance everything
well, they usually your

1313
01:29:43,860 --> 01:29:46,800
Dave Jones: your sort of take
like so the person let's say I

1314
01:29:46,800 --> 01:29:52,470
spin up, I create an lb hub and
I find I'm paying for the lb

1315
01:29:52,470 --> 01:30:00,270
hub. Then I can connect with a
few friends to my lb hub and And

1316
01:30:00,720 --> 01:30:06,360
they each get their own their
own wallet, essentially, their

1317
01:30:06,360 --> 01:30:09,720
own their own balance their own
wallet, and they can connect it

1318
01:30:09,720 --> 01:30:16,080
to their apps as they see fit.
And it's sort of like, I'm I'm

1319
01:30:16,080 --> 01:30:21,300
the host, I'm taking the
responsibility for their, for

1320
01:30:21,300 --> 01:30:24,600
their for what they do. And is
that responsibility? Because

1321
01:30:24,600 --> 01:30:29,550
it's still because because it's
still non custodial. No, it's

1322
01:30:31,920 --> 01:30:36,240
Sorry. Yeah. Non custodial for
Alby? It's custodial for me.

1323
01:30:36,750 --> 01:30:37,920
Yes. Yes.

1324
01:30:42,180 --> 01:30:46,170
Unknown: Okay, so yeah, anyone,
anyone who connects your note?

1325
01:30:46,530 --> 01:30:49,170
They, they, they have to have a
certain level of trust, right?

1326
01:30:49,170 --> 01:30:52,620
Because it's your money. They
have to trust that they can

1327
01:30:52,620 --> 01:30:56,670
actually use it. It's, if they
haven't balanced, they should be

1328
01:30:56,670 --> 01:30:59,700
able to spend it. So it's your
responsibility to provide that

1329
01:30:59,700 --> 01:31:03,240
service. But without the help,
we're trying to make that as

1330
01:31:03,540 --> 01:31:06,690
easy and straightforward as
possible. Okay.

1331
01:31:07,530 --> 01:31:09,450
Adam Curry: Well, that sounds
like something we could do.

1332
01:31:10,410 --> 01:31:10,800
Yeah,

1333
01:31:11,040 --> 01:31:13,740
Dave Jones: yeah. This sounds
that sounds interesting. I mean,

1334
01:31:13,740 --> 01:31:15,960
I definitely want to give it a
shot. I want to play with it.

1335
01:31:16,470 --> 01:31:17,040
Yeah,

1336
01:31:17,070 --> 01:31:24,570
Adam Curry: I mean, my brain
hurts. Yeah, makes my brain

1337
01:31:24,570 --> 01:31:29,850
hurt. I mean, it's, we're just
trying to, to provide a bridge

1338
01:31:29,880 --> 01:31:34,740
and provide a way to make it
easy for someone who has pod

1339
01:31:34,740 --> 01:31:40,590
verse to just say, get a wallet,
click this button, you've

1340
01:31:40,590 --> 01:31:46,200
created a wallet, now you need
to fund it. And we're okay with

1341
01:31:46,200 --> 01:31:51,420
providing that for for an
interim period. Because I

1342
01:31:51,420 --> 01:31:53,820
certainly like the idea of where
you're going, where everyone

1343
01:31:53,820 --> 01:31:56,760
gets their own node. And but I
just think that's going to take

1344
01:31:56,760 --> 01:32:00,660
a while. LSPs are new,
everything's new channel opens,

1345
01:32:00,900 --> 01:32:04,710
cost on chain costs. There's a
lot of stuff going on. But

1346
01:32:04,710 --> 01:32:06,870
David, I've talked to said no,
you know, we can probably

1347
01:32:06,870 --> 01:32:10,440
provide this as a bridge for a
while. So that's what we're

1348
01:32:10,440 --> 01:32:14,430
really looking to provide. And
if that's something lb hub can

1349
01:32:14,430 --> 01:32:16,950
do, then then we'd love to see
if we can try that out.

1350
01:32:20,310 --> 01:32:22,890
Unknown: Cool. I think like, we
are definitely working on the

1351
01:32:22,890 --> 01:32:27,210
same thing, right? So we just
need to make sure that our bases

1352
01:32:27,840 --> 01:32:33,090
at Alveus is right, it's fine.
So that's why we now need to

1353
01:32:33,120 --> 01:32:38,430
invest a lot in like technical
development, and then can really

1354
01:32:38,430 --> 01:32:42,570
see how we can lower the bar
step by step and make sure

1355
01:32:42,570 --> 01:32:45,480
people have a great great
onboarding experience there. And

1356
01:32:45,480 --> 01:32:48,600
that I think that's that will be
a killer feature that Olin

1357
01:32:48,600 --> 01:32:49,110
mentioned.

1358
01:32:50,280 --> 01:32:53,010
Dave Jones: Is that is that a
live product? I'll be hub right

1359
01:32:53,010 --> 01:32:55,290
now, or is that something that
is still in development?

1360
01:32:56,700 --> 01:33:01,350
Unknown: Um, so Sam is using it.
Oscar, from fontainhas using it.

1361
01:33:01,710 --> 01:33:06,810
James I onboarded. James and
truly Costello reasonably that

1362
01:33:06,810 --> 01:33:12,870
means we are slowly rolling it
out, step by step. And get every

1363
01:33:13,140 --> 01:33:18,330
every week new users on board.
So everybody's happy to, to sign

1364
01:33:18,330 --> 01:33:21,630
up and and try it out. Now. It's
just not yet like publicly

1365
01:33:21,630 --> 01:33:24,810
launched and no big boss made
around that.

1366
01:33:25,440 --> 01:33:27,450
Adam Curry: Excellent. So Dave,
sounds like you need to be

1367
01:33:27,450 --> 01:33:29,490
onboarded. Brother. Yeah,

1368
01:33:29,730 --> 01:33:30,570
Dave Jones: onboard me, bro.

1369
01:33:31,380 --> 01:33:35,100
Adam Curry: You need an
onboarding. Just one more thing,

1370
01:33:35,100 --> 01:33:41,160
just to clarify. If us users
have a code that they have

1371
01:33:41,160 --> 01:33:46,500
received, then they can or
cannot open the kit. There's no

1372
01:33:46,500 --> 01:33:50,970
possibility for us users to
receive an Albu wallet as we

1373
01:33:50,970 --> 01:33:52,530
used to know it anymore,
correct?

1374
01:33:53,670 --> 01:33:56,580
Unknown: That's correct. But
they can create an account with

1375
01:33:56,580 --> 01:34:00,300
an invite code and we help them
to get on our behalf.

1376
01:34:03,210 --> 01:34:06,390
Adam Curry: Right, which, which
means they they they have their

1377
01:34:06,390 --> 01:34:14,340
own node. Exactly. Yes. Okay.
That's it. So, okay. All right.

1378
01:34:14,370 --> 01:34:16,950
I mean, I think we've gotten
somewhere.

1379
01:34:18,510 --> 01:34:21,090
Dave Jones: Yeah, I mean, that's
Yeah, I think so. I think we

1380
01:34:21,090 --> 01:34:24,510
have the Yeah, I think we just
need to be on boarded to lb. Hub

1381
01:34:24,510 --> 01:34:27,000
and just start to play it
because this is what this is.

1382
01:34:27,000 --> 01:34:30,210
What I wanted to do with the
breeze SDK is is get on boarded

1383
01:34:30,210 --> 01:34:39,000
onto onto the breeze SDK and see
if we could try to sandbox a

1384
01:34:39,000 --> 01:34:45,570
solution to show the app
developers what to do. And then,

1385
01:34:46,080 --> 01:34:49,020
but then Roy said that it was
just debris SDK was just not a

1386
01:34:49,020 --> 01:34:55,020
good fit because of the channel,
the channel, the ROI, so that

1387
01:34:55,050 --> 01:34:59,190
that just didn't work out. So lb
hub sounds like something that

1388
01:34:59,250 --> 01:35:03,780
did I need to do to onboard into
and try to figure out, because

1389
01:35:03,780 --> 01:35:08,310
I'm looking to do the legwork to
figure out how it works so that

1390
01:35:08,310 --> 01:35:11,490
I can then explain how that to
explain to app developers what

1391
01:35:11,490 --> 01:35:15,420
they need to do. That's really
my that must really my point of

1392
01:35:15,420 --> 01:35:18,630
view is to try to be as
educational.

1393
01:35:21,750 --> 01:35:23,400
Unknown: As sounds awesome,
let's do that.

1394
01:35:24,060 --> 01:35:24,720
Dave Jones: Okay, yep.

1395
01:35:25,560 --> 01:35:29,340
Adam Curry: So somehow we can
hopefully create a solution,

1396
01:35:29,580 --> 01:35:33,300
that it's interesting that Oscar
is doing that, too. I like that.

1397
01:35:34,410 --> 01:35:39,750
We can find a solution that will
maybe allow podcast index to

1398
01:35:39,750 --> 01:35:44,070
provide wallets for a while to
app developers. Dave? Is that

1399
01:35:44,070 --> 01:35:46,890
what I'm hearing you say if we
can figure out the hub thing?

1400
01:35:47,430 --> 01:35:50,340
Dave Jones: Yeah, maybe? I mean,
it I think, I think really, it's

1401
01:35:50,340 --> 01:35:53,670
just an exploratory thing on our
part. I mean, we can definitely

1402
01:35:53,880 --> 01:35:57,930
host some wallets. I mean, we
did it with their Ellen, you do

1403
01:35:57,960 --> 01:36:02,430
lol? Hey, yeah. For two years,
we could definitely host some

1404
01:36:02,430 --> 01:36:07,740
wallets. But then really, if we
can just like that would be the

1405
01:36:07,740 --> 01:36:12,090
sort of the learning experience
to then figure out how to teach

1406
01:36:12,420 --> 01:36:19,710
other people how to run sort of
community. No hopes? Oh, yeah,

1407
01:36:19,710 --> 01:36:22,890
definitely. And, and let us get
a feel for what the you know,

1408
01:36:22,890 --> 01:36:27,780
what the investment looks like,
and that sort of thing. Yeah, I

1409
01:36:27,780 --> 01:36:30,540
think it's just a matter. I
think this is just where we're

1410
01:36:30,540 --> 01:36:33,150
going to end up. I mean, we're
going to end up in, in a

1411
01:36:33,150 --> 01:36:36,930
situation where you're going to
have people with, you're gonna

1412
01:36:36,930 --> 01:36:40,680
have people with wallets, full
wallets, that they just have to,

1413
01:36:40,830 --> 01:36:43,800
you know, learn how to
understand themselves. But then

1414
01:36:43,800 --> 01:36:47,640
you also are going to have those
people potentially running, you

1415
01:36:47,640 --> 01:36:50,460
know, some of those people, some
small percentage of those people

1416
01:36:50,460 --> 01:36:54,480
are running some hubs for other
people that they know. And who

1417
01:36:54,480 --> 01:36:56,730
knows how that works? I mean, I
don't know, I think this is all

1418
01:36:56,730 --> 01:36:57,780
a learning curve. Yeah.

1419
01:36:57,810 --> 01:37:00,720
Adam Curry: I mean, I can
totally see it for on the

1420
01:37:00,720 --> 01:37:03,510
incoming side, I can see like
the Costello's who are

1421
01:37:03,510 --> 01:37:07,200
onboarding artists. And I can
see them running an lb hub for

1422
01:37:07,200 --> 01:37:10,590
their artists, I can totally see
that. Yeah, make that makes a

1423
01:37:10,590 --> 01:37:14,280
lot because you know, they'll
have 1050 100. I mean, I don't

1424
01:37:14,280 --> 01:37:17,550
know how many artists they'll
have. That I think is fantastic.

1425
01:37:17,580 --> 01:37:21,240
It's really, it's really just
how do we keep the how do we

1426
01:37:21,240 --> 01:37:25,260
keep the other apps interesting,
in the value for value space?

1427
01:37:25,260 --> 01:37:29,400
Because they, they all do it? It
just now they can't onboard new

1428
01:37:29,400 --> 01:37:33,600
people. And that's just a shame.
Because you're just losing

1429
01:37:33,600 --> 01:37:37,890
momentum there. And I think we
don't want only one app to be

1430
01:37:37,890 --> 01:37:40,290
seen as the only value for value
app.

1431
01:37:42,180 --> 01:37:45,600
Dave Jones: Yeah. So yeah, I
think yeah, I think we, I think

1432
01:37:45,600 --> 01:37:51,660
we go down this road and see and
see if it'll work. Okay, because

1433
01:37:51,690 --> 01:37:55,770
yeah, like you I mean, there's,
there's multiple there's

1434
01:37:55,770 --> 01:38:01,680
multiple apps. I mean, if it has
to be everything, all this stuff

1435
01:38:01,680 --> 01:38:05,490
has to be doable by everybody.
If it's not doable by everybody,

1436
01:38:05,490 --> 01:38:08,250
then it's just not a real
solution to a problem right.

1437
01:38:10,620 --> 01:38:15,150
Adam Curry: Okay, well, why
don't we break for a song? Yes,

1438
01:38:15,180 --> 01:38:20,190
I think we all need that.
Speaking of value, there's a guy

1439
01:38:20,190 --> 01:38:23,070
out there I don't know if it's a
guy or a band Richard greaser

1440
01:38:23,760 --> 01:38:28,530
which I found great name if he
had good name degreaser Richard

1441
01:38:28,530 --> 01:38:33,240
greaser and has a whole album
out and the whole album is about

1442
01:38:33,240 --> 01:38:38,940
the McDonald's value meal and
and very nostalgic look at it

1443
01:38:38,940 --> 01:38:42,060
and where did it go? And how
come how come everything's so

1444
01:38:42,060 --> 01:38:45,330
expensive? So I figured I'd give
that one a world this is I

1445
01:38:45,330 --> 01:38:48,000
remember the days Richard grease
Rod 2.0

1446
01:38:48,450 --> 01:38:49,830
Unknown: I remember the day

1447
01:38:56,100 --> 01:39:06,420
morning a simple treasure in a
fast food. McDonald's dollar

1448
01:39:06,420 --> 01:39:12,420
menu oh how you mine. A
cheeseburger fries and a small

1449
01:39:12,420 --> 01:39:14,700
Sundew joins

1450
01:39:20,670 --> 01:39:21,270
us for that.

1451
01:39:46,560 --> 01:39:54,360
shader in a syllabaries may not
be suitable. We will go over

1452
01:39:57,570 --> 01:40:06,450
those Global's notches knew how
it feels now to practice and not

1453
01:40:06,450 --> 01:40:17,100
feel stressed at a simple that's
caused me to fail

1454
01:40:25,320 --> 01:40:25,680
oh

1455
01:40:31,200 --> 01:40:31,680
no

1456
01:40:47,550 --> 01:40:56,040
How can I move on from Sony so
you were a beacon when the end

1457
01:40:56,040 --> 01:41:07,620
was me now unless searching for
Jason forgot the stories you

1458
01:41:19,590 --> 01:41:20,190
days your

1459
01:41:25,830 --> 01:41:27,000
peace of mind

1460
01:41:32,010 --> 01:41:32,850
fall

1461
01:41:42,090 --> 01:41:45,480
Adam Curry: now I realize it is
entirely possible that was

1462
01:41:45,540 --> 01:41:48,390
completely created by AI I'm not
sure

1463
01:41:50,430 --> 01:41:52,230
Dave Jones: think it's more than
likely I

1464
01:41:52,770 --> 01:41:55,230
Adam Curry: know the odd I mean
everything is auto tune these

1465
01:41:55,230 --> 01:41:59,250
days but I don't I'm not sure
I've heard a lot of AI music

1466
01:41:59,520 --> 01:42:03,870
that never that never has this
has better structure than most

1467
01:42:03,990 --> 01:42:06,240
for sure. So I'm not sure.

1468
01:42:07,260 --> 01:42:09,690
Dave Jones: I don't know.
History

1469
01:42:11,700 --> 01:42:14,040
Adam Curry: pretty soon we'll
just have aI music being played

1470
01:42:14,040 --> 01:42:18,090
by AI disc jockeys and we'll all
retire. Oh, yeah, just keep the

1471
01:42:18,090 --> 01:42:19,980
sentence flowing baby. Just keep
it flowing.

1472
01:42:20,820 --> 01:42:22,170
Dave Jones: At that point is
just over.

1473
01:42:25,710 --> 01:42:28,110
Adam Curry: Ever everyone says
his AI in the in the boardroom.

1474
01:42:28,110 --> 01:42:29,640
But I don't know. How do we
know?

1475
01:42:32,310 --> 01:42:34,560
Dave Jones: What do we want to
do? We want to go down. Do we

1476
01:42:34,560 --> 01:42:37,530
want to talk about Elon address
real quick? Since we have Yeah.

1477
01:42:38,310 --> 01:42:40,680
Adam Curry: Yeah, we have the
boys on Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

1478
01:42:40,830 --> 01:42:43,140
Dave Jones: Roland, are you up
for a little discussion about

1479
01:42:43,170 --> 01:42:48,060
Elon? Lightning address issues?
Sure.

1480
01:42:49,980 --> 01:42:51,900
Adam Curry: All right. He's
excited, Dave. He's really

1481
01:42:51,900 --> 01:42:53,490
raring to go. He's in the
saddle.

1482
01:42:54,210 --> 01:42:58,530
Dave Jones: You're Fired up? I
can tell you're excited. So, so

1483
01:42:58,530 --> 01:43:02,520
here's the here's the issue. Let
me explain to you I don't know,

1484
01:43:02,580 --> 01:43:06,420
are you just for purposes of
understanding here? Are you

1485
01:43:06,420 --> 01:43:14,130
familiar with the way that the
value block? The value XML is

1486
01:43:14,160 --> 01:43:16,320
described in an RSS feed?

1487
01:43:20,190 --> 01:43:23,820
Unknown: vaguely, I mean, I say
that I've set up a couple of

1488
01:43:23,820 --> 01:43:26,550
tests podcasts, but it's been a
while. So.

1489
01:43:27,330 --> 01:43:30,420
Dave Jones: Okay, so there's a
values in the XML, there's a

1490
01:43:30,420 --> 01:43:36,630
value tag, and that tag has
children, which are value

1491
01:43:36,630 --> 01:43:40,590
recipient tags, this specify the
addresses of the nodes where the

1492
01:43:40,590 --> 01:43:44,430
keys and payments are going to
go. So in the end, each one has

1493
01:43:44,430 --> 01:43:50,910
a split amount, beaten? Yeah, it
goes like that. So the what the

1494
01:43:50,910 --> 01:43:57,480
difficult what Oscar proposed
was that in is that, instead of

1495
01:43:57,780 --> 01:44:04,500
explicitly declaring the, the,
the lightning node ID and the

1496
01:44:04,500 --> 01:44:10,680
value recipient tag, that we
would instead use a lightning

1497
01:44:10,680 --> 01:44:17,700
address. If so, then the
lightening address would would

1498
01:44:17,700 --> 01:44:23,100
be resolved by the pay by the
payer, by the payment sender, so

1499
01:44:23,100 --> 01:44:29,010
that you could have a level of
indirection there, where if a

1500
01:44:29,040 --> 01:44:33,150
host if somebody that hosts a
bunch of somebody that hosts a

1501
01:44:33,150 --> 01:44:37,620
wall host wallets for a bunch of
feeds, if their node ID changes,

1502
01:44:37,620 --> 01:44:40,800
they don't have to go and track
down all the RSS feeds and

1503
01:44:40,800 --> 01:44:44,820
change that node, that node pub
key in all of those feeds. If

1504
01:44:44,850 --> 01:44:54,510
you agree with me so far. Yes.
Okay. So then the issue it was

1505
01:44:55,110 --> 01:45:00,000
nice, okay, well, let's do a
lightning address. And then the

1506
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:02,940
Lightning. So the lightning
address is going to specify the

1507
01:45:02,940 --> 01:45:06,360
key send payment information,
which would be the pub key of

1508
01:45:06,360 --> 01:45:11,070
the node in a potential
potentially a routing, hint of a

1509
01:45:11,070 --> 01:45:16,680
custom key and custom value. And
that's fine, except if we're

1510
01:45:16,680 --> 01:45:20,670
going to Roy from Greece. And
well, if we're going to fix

1511
01:45:20,670 --> 01:45:24,690
this, if we're going to put this
in place, we might as well think

1512
01:45:24,690 --> 01:45:29,130
about the future as well. And
let's look at both 12 and other

1513
01:45:29,160 --> 01:45:33,810
things that may be coming down
the pipe. And let's try to sort

1514
01:45:33,810 --> 01:45:36,180
of solve all this at once. So if
we're going to make if we're

1515
01:45:36,180 --> 01:45:43,530
going to make apps go out and
look for a landing address, URL,

1516
01:45:44,370 --> 01:45:47,760
dot well known URL to get this
payment in destination

1517
01:45:47,760 --> 01:45:53,100
information, let's make it an
options file. So that you have

1518
01:45:53,100 --> 01:45:58,020
an up, he would have handled
JSON structure. And the JSON

1519
01:45:58,020 --> 01:46:03,930
structure would contain a
property dot JSON JSON object

1520
01:46:03,930 --> 01:46:08,700
would contain a property called
options, which is an array that

1521
01:46:08,700 --> 01:46:13,950
has an array of objects, each
object itself containing

1522
01:46:13,980 --> 01:46:16,680
information about a payment
destination. So that would be

1523
01:46:16,680 --> 01:46:21,600
one of them might be L in your
LP. Another one would be might

1524
01:46:21,600 --> 01:46:25,590
be keys, and another one might
be Bolt 12 essentially give

1525
01:46:25,590 --> 01:46:30,420
saying for this user that I'm
looking up, here's all the

1526
01:46:30,420 --> 01:46:36,600
different ways they can receive
a payment. That's, that's the

1527
01:46:36,600 --> 01:46:42,690
idea. Does that sound number one
does that sound like this spec

1528
01:46:42,690 --> 01:46:45,660
is not defined anywhere?
Currently, we have key send Alby

1529
01:46:45,660 --> 01:46:51,120
supports this the dot well known
keys and URL. And you also think

1530
01:46:51,120 --> 01:46:56,610
support L in your LP. But the
idea here is just combining all

1531
01:46:56,610 --> 01:46:59,040
these so we don't have to have a
bunch of different dot well

1532
01:46:59,040 --> 01:47:03,570
known URL, your eyes, we could
do, we could sort of combine

1533
01:47:03,570 --> 01:47:10,290
what all of those different your
eyes specify into a single file

1534
01:47:10,290 --> 01:47:13,470
that says here is all the
different ways you're it's

1535
01:47:13,470 --> 01:47:15,150
possible to send this person
that payment.

1536
01:47:18,960 --> 01:47:22,530
Unknown: I don't think the
structure is too important,

1537
01:47:22,560 --> 01:47:27,840
whether it's multiple well known
files are one one file with a

1538
01:47:27,840 --> 01:47:30,810
list of options. But both I
think is a good idea, future

1539
01:47:30,810 --> 01:47:34,290
proofing, right. So that when
you have this set up, like

1540
01:47:34,290 --> 01:47:40,050
applications can, can try to pay
with one of the supported

1541
01:47:40,050 --> 01:47:44,580
options, right? And over time,
it is applications improved,

1542
01:47:44,580 --> 01:47:47,400
they've been a wallet support,
they can upgrade to pay with

1543
01:47:47,400 --> 01:47:53,520
bold 12, for example, which
would have, you know, bit a bit

1544
01:47:53,520 --> 01:47:57,210
of privacy, no runners wouldn't
have to open public channels,

1545
01:47:57,660 --> 01:48:03,210
which would make the network
more performance as well. But at

1546
01:48:03,210 --> 01:48:06,840
the same time, there's not much
support for about volt 12 yet,

1547
01:48:07,200 --> 01:48:11,670
we're working on it right. And I
think lightning addresses, for

1548
01:48:11,670 --> 01:48:16,800
example, is a great intermediary
solution for that. Even the LV,

1549
01:48:17,400 --> 01:48:21,180
our LV node infrastructure, we
have the same issue because we

1550
01:48:21,180 --> 01:48:23,850
have our own node with this
property that we have to keep

1551
01:48:23,850 --> 01:48:31,140
running because all these value
tags and all these feeds, right,

1552
01:48:31,140 --> 01:48:38,430
they all point to this node, we
have to keep it online. So So I

1553
01:48:38,430 --> 01:48:41,460
think, definitely having having
a lightning address where you

1554
01:48:41,460 --> 01:48:48,120
can, or you know that you can
point to the destination, which

1555
01:48:48,150 --> 01:48:52,290
can change without, because it's
a lot more flexible, in my

1556
01:48:52,290 --> 01:48:55,290
opinion. I guess there are some
downsides, right? It's more

1557
01:48:55,290 --> 01:48:58,260
difficult for application
developers, they might have to

1558
01:48:58,260 --> 01:49:03,750
support multiple payment
methods. And going forward, all

1559
01:49:03,750 --> 01:49:07,320
the existing apps will have to
update to this format. I mean,

1560
01:49:07,560 --> 01:49:10,410
we can make it as backward
compatible as possible. But

1561
01:49:12,030 --> 01:49:15,390
hopefully that does happen. I
think Bhumi Boomi would be a

1562
01:49:15,390 --> 01:49:21,660
much better person to answer
this question. But there's,

1563
01:49:21,690 --> 01:49:23,190
there's the best I can give you
today.

1564
01:49:24,330 --> 01:49:27,780
Dave Jones: So you so you think
do you have an opinion on

1565
01:49:27,780 --> 01:49:31,560
whether or not and whether or
not it should be something like

1566
01:49:31,590 --> 01:49:37,650
a cuz here's the here's the
difficulty I see. I can see it

1567
01:49:37,650 --> 01:49:41,340
both ways. Like, on the one
hand, it's really nice to have

1568
01:49:41,340 --> 01:49:45,210
one place to check all the
different payment that all the

1569
01:49:45,210 --> 01:49:49,200
different payment methods where
you can say, okay, I can pay you

1570
01:49:49,230 --> 01:49:55,680
in these three potentially four
different ways. But then also,

1571
01:49:56,550 --> 01:50:03,540
it's kind of once but once we
get Bolt 12 broad adoption. I

1572
01:50:03,540 --> 01:50:06,900
don't know that any of these
other met main Kison is not

1573
01:50:06,900 --> 01:50:11,640
going to I don't think Kison
really survives the bolt 12

1574
01:50:11,640 --> 01:50:16,050
transition because then it's not
really necessary. So at that

1575
01:50:16,050 --> 01:50:20,100
point, I don't know that the
bolt well seems like the native

1576
01:50:20,100 --> 01:50:23,070
lightning, what Native lightning
payments should be, should be

1577
01:50:23,070 --> 01:50:28,110
doing already with blinded
routes and all of that stuff. So

1578
01:50:28,740 --> 01:50:32,040
I don't even see the point of
keys and after bowl 12. And I

1579
01:50:32,040 --> 01:50:36,780
really don't see the point of
Ellen, your LP, avail Ellen URL

1580
01:50:36,960 --> 01:50:40,620
after Bolt 12. Because both 12
is essentially doing the same

1581
01:50:40,620 --> 01:50:43,680
thing as ln your LP just under
the covers in in a better way.

1582
01:50:44,130 --> 01:50:47,760
So at then, then I'm like, well,
then we don't really need an

1583
01:50:47,760 --> 01:50:51,120
options file. Because there's
not even any options anymore.

1584
01:50:51,120 --> 01:50:52,050
There's just one way.

1585
01:50:55,350 --> 01:50:57,510
Unknown: But this will take
years to happen, right?

1586
01:51:00,000 --> 01:51:00,930
Adam Curry: For years.

1587
01:51:01,650 --> 01:51:05,010
Dave Jones: Yeah. Yeah, I agree.
I guess that's I guess that's

1588
01:51:05,010 --> 01:51:05,280
it.

1589
01:51:05,310 --> 01:51:08,310
Adam Curry: There you go. Dave
years, we're early brother.

1590
01:51:08,310 --> 01:51:10,500
We're early in the process.
We're very early.

1591
01:51:11,820 --> 01:51:17,310
Dave Jones: Well, I guess you're
right. I mean, it. It's because

1592
01:51:17,310 --> 01:51:20,220
you're, you know, here's the
there's, this ended up being a

1593
01:51:20,220 --> 01:51:23,160
can of worms. It's like, once I
started looking at the structure

1594
01:51:23,910 --> 01:51:28,470
after this new thing. I'm like,
Well, this sort of, if you start

1595
01:51:28,470 --> 01:51:33,000
specifying, and if you stop
spending, start specifying an

1596
01:51:33,000 --> 01:51:40,230
options file, URL in the page
value recipient tag, then all of

1597
01:51:40,230 --> 01:51:45,000
a sudden, the key send the
method equals key send in the

1598
01:51:45,000 --> 01:51:48,960
value tag parent, doesn't really
make any sense anymore.

1599
01:51:49,830 --> 01:51:54,420
Eventually, I guess. Like,
because No, I mean, immediately,

1600
01:51:54,780 --> 01:51:57,090
because he said, you know, like,
currently, the value tag

1601
01:51:57,090 --> 01:52:02,970
specifies, you know, a type of a
type lightning and method key

1602
01:52:02,970 --> 01:52:06,720
sin, right. Then inside that
structure, you have various

1603
01:52:06,720 --> 01:52:10,800
recipients, and they just have
addresses in them. And those are

1604
01:52:10,800 --> 01:52:14,220
all the keys and addresses.
Well, if we put in a lightning

1605
01:52:14,220 --> 01:52:17,400
address, where you're looking up
an options file, and it gives

1606
01:52:17,400 --> 01:52:20,250
you the option for keys and or
both well or anything like well,

1607
01:52:20,250 --> 01:52:27,870
then now you know, that now,
it's to kissin method on the

1608
01:52:27,870 --> 01:52:30,660
value tag doesn't make any sense
because they may not be paying

1609
01:52:30,660 --> 01:52:35,640
with keys and they may be paying
with bold 12 or Ellen URL or

1610
01:52:35,640 --> 01:52:41,910
whatever. So I'm just thinking
that it is sort of negates the

1611
01:52:41,910 --> 01:52:46,200
entirety it messes up the whole
structure. So I thought this was

1612
01:52:46,200 --> 01:52:48,840
going to be simple when I first
did it, but now I'm starting to

1613
01:52:48,840 --> 01:52:56,040
think that this doesn't make
well yeah, Eric, it didn't make

1614
01:52:56,040 --> 01:52:59,520
sense to have method keys and
apply to all the recipients

1615
01:52:59,520 --> 01:53:06,060
because that's it made sense at
the time because it was assuming

1616
01:53:06,060 --> 01:53:14,970
that a single app it because
that's all we had it just makes

1617
01:53:15,000 --> 01:53:19,800
us assuming that the app that's
all I could send was key send

1618
01:53:20,220 --> 01:53:23,310
like it was only going to be
able to do one thing like it was

1619
01:53:23,310 --> 01:53:26,310
either gonna be able to do Hive
or lightning or whatever this

1620
01:53:26,310 --> 01:53:31,650
thing was so then you had you
had that idea but now I think it

1621
01:53:31,650 --> 01:53:35,610
makes less sense now because now
you can just beacon like you

1622
01:53:35,640 --> 01:53:39,720
like you're saying you can push
that keys and it's being pushed

1623
01:53:39,720 --> 01:53:44,730
down into the value recipient.
So I don't know I'm gonna have

1624
01:53:44,730 --> 01:53:49,080
to rethink this whole thing. And
I've got a halfway written up

1625
01:53:49,080 --> 01:53:52,020
and I think I may just have to
like rearrange a lot of stuff.

1626
01:53:52,320 --> 01:53:55,680
But then I don't want to break
backwards compatibility. No, no,

1627
01:53:55,680 --> 01:53:59,430
this is like trying to jump
through a flaming hoop is what

1628
01:53:59,430 --> 01:54:00,660
this this

1629
01:54:00,660 --> 01:54:04,590
Adam Curry: is why God created
the weekend Dave. Stuff like

1630
01:54:04,590 --> 01:54:12,480
this. Sure. Final thing for
Morrison rolling now. I know

1631
01:54:12,750 --> 01:54:17,670
Aldi is a German company as far
as I know. Moritz, you're in

1632
01:54:17,670 --> 01:54:21,030
Switzerland. Rollin you don't
even sound German. Where are you

1633
01:54:21,030 --> 01:54:21,510
from?

1634
01:54:22,020 --> 01:54:24,150
Dave Jones: Is the International
Man of Mystery. No, we

1635
01:54:24,150 --> 01:54:25,380
Adam Curry: need to know where
are you from rolling.

1636
01:54:26,640 --> 01:54:27,360
Unknown: New Zealand

1637
01:54:27,750 --> 01:54:30,750
Adam Curry: New Zealand. I got
it. You did and are you in New

1638
01:54:30,750 --> 01:54:31,590
Zealand right now?

1639
01:54:33,660 --> 01:54:37,620
Unknown: No, I've I've opted
out. I live in Thailand now.

1640
01:54:38,550 --> 01:54:43,110
Adam Curry: It makes it even
better. What time is it in

1641
01:54:43,110 --> 01:54:43,800
Thailand?

1642
01:54:46,470 --> 01:54:47,640
Unknown: 2:30am.

1643
01:54:48,210 --> 01:54:52,290
Adam Curry: Brother. Oh, I wish
we I'm sorry. Well, I was gonna

1644
01:54:52,290 --> 01:54:55,980
ask you know who you guys
thought was gonna win the the,

1645
01:54:56,010 --> 01:54:59,460
you know the European Cup. The
waiver is that UEFA Cup. Is that

1646
01:54:59,460 --> 01:55:03,270
what it is? You wafer what is
it? No, it's

1647
01:55:03,270 --> 01:55:04,560
Unknown: not the way what

1648
01:55:04,560 --> 01:55:07,830
Adam Curry: is it? It's the the
European European

1649
01:55:07,830 --> 01:55:11,160
Unknown: Championship exactly at
national level. So of

1650
01:55:11,160 --> 01:55:13,650
Adam Curry: course I'm rooting
for the Netherlands obviously.

1651
01:55:13,680 --> 01:55:16,920
How about their mon shaft? are
you rooting for them? More to go

1652
01:55:16,920 --> 01:55:18,300
on for the for the Swiss?

1653
01:55:19,200 --> 01:55:21,750
Unknown: No, I think like the
Germany had a very good start in

1654
01:55:21,750 --> 01:55:24,810
the tournament so I'm optimistic
they will they will reach the

1655
01:55:24,810 --> 01:55:25,920
final. They

1656
01:55:25,920 --> 01:55:30,030
Adam Curry: always seem to
somehow it always always Germany

1657
01:55:30,030 --> 01:55:32,640
France doesn't matter if it's
football doesn't matter if it's

1658
01:55:32,640 --> 01:55:35,220
World War one or two. It's
always Germany, France for some

1659
01:55:35,220 --> 01:55:36,450
reason. It's very weird.

1660
01:55:38,640 --> 01:55:40,770
Dave Jones: I just feel like we
owe Roland an apology for having

1661
01:55:40,770 --> 01:55:44,010
to sit through this that auto
tune song at 230 in the morning.

1662
01:55:44,160 --> 01:55:45,690
It wasn't all that bad.

1663
01:55:47,730 --> 01:55:50,700
Unknown: I actually I actually
liked it. Yeah,

1664
01:55:50,790 --> 01:55:53,370
Adam Curry: I'm concerned with
my suck you up. I'm concerned

1665
01:55:53,370 --> 01:55:59,100
with myself now that I liked
what's going on? I want to thank

1666
01:55:59,430 --> 01:56:02,820
Morrison rollin for for joining
us. Certainly rolling so late.

1667
01:56:02,820 --> 01:56:06,510
Really appreciate that. If you
if you want to, you're more than

1668
01:56:06,510 --> 01:56:08,550
welcome to hang out. We're just
going to thank some people.

1669
01:56:09,030 --> 01:56:12,930
These of course, are people who
have also sent value to you

1670
01:56:12,930 --> 01:56:16,110
guys, we put you in the value
block. So I presume that's being

1671
01:56:16,110 --> 01:56:19,380
received more. So you see come
in. Yeah,

1672
01:56:19,410 --> 01:56:21,690
Unknown: it's actually we put
getting emails and

1673
01:56:23,610 --> 01:56:26,520
Adam Curry: I'm sorry, I was a
bit of cross talk. Sorry.

1674
01:56:26,520 --> 01:56:29,850
Unknown: So yeah, I'm running
the LV hub with a few public

1675
01:56:29,850 --> 01:56:34,350
channels. So I'm receiving all
these split payments and is

1676
01:56:34,350 --> 01:56:37,470
working great. Oh, good. Thanks.
Thanks, guys. Yeah, good.

1677
01:56:38,040 --> 01:56:38,460
Dave Jones: Awesome.

1678
01:56:38,880 --> 01:56:41,850
Adam Curry: Let me just thank
the people who were who were

1679
01:56:41,850 --> 01:56:45,300
boosting live. And of course,
Sam said he comes in with 1000

1680
01:56:45,300 --> 01:56:48,090
SATs. And he says this
discussion was so overly

1681
01:56:48,090 --> 01:56:51,000
complex. A note podcast listener
is going to understand this.

1682
01:56:51,000 --> 01:56:55,230
Well, no. This is also the
boardroom is not for podcast

1683
01:56:55,230 --> 01:56:59,400
listeners. It's for it's for the
development people. He says

1684
01:56:59,400 --> 01:57:01,860
people don't pay for podcasting
today. So if there are too many

1685
01:57:01,860 --> 01:57:04,290
technical hoops to set up a
wallet, they won't bother I

1686
01:57:04,290 --> 01:57:08,640
agree. And and I think that Sam
probably has a jump on this.

1687
01:57:08,640 --> 01:57:12,660
He's, he's deep into the lb hub.
And you know, we onboard Dave

1688
01:57:12,660 --> 01:57:15,240
and we'll start to figure stuff
out and if podcast index can

1689
01:57:15,240 --> 01:57:18,720
help with a bridge solution
we're happy to so we definitely

1690
01:57:18,720 --> 01:57:23,610
want to make this make this work
for everybody. The 5100 SATs

1691
01:57:23,610 --> 01:57:27,330
from Boomi, who you know who
gave up his spot and he says

1692
01:57:27,330 --> 01:57:30,270
opening channels are the KYC
process for the self sovereign

1693
01:57:30,270 --> 01:57:32,790
person. Interesting point.

1694
01:57:33,270 --> 01:57:33,810
Dave Jones: Yeah,

1695
01:57:33,840 --> 01:57:36,960
Adam Curry: yeah. DS laughs with
1000 SATs this boost is a

1696
01:57:36,960 --> 01:57:41,610
shameless promotion to hear my
name mentioned Okay. On a side

1697
01:57:41,610 --> 01:57:43,920
note, any thoughts over
leaderboards similar to the art

1698
01:57:43,920 --> 01:57:46,650
generator for the end of show
mixes are having categories for

1699
01:57:46,650 --> 01:57:49,920
the best for the big baller
booster and troll of the year

1700
01:57:49,920 --> 01:57:55,500
included in the podcast 2.0
awards. Okay, so there's no

1701
01:57:55,530 --> 01:57:58,230
looking forward to the pod
awards. He says nope, that's not

1702
01:57:58,230 --> 01:58:07,230
going to happen. Yeah, we need
to get Wallace 111 He's, he's

1703
01:58:07,230 --> 01:58:11,070
down under and he says hooked me
up with that fat pipe. All

1704
01:58:11,070 --> 01:58:16,260
right. See Brooklyn 112 with
1000 SATs just came in. We've

1705
01:58:16,260 --> 01:58:19,890
got another 1000 from Sam Sethi
complexity is failed simplicity.

1706
01:58:20,520 --> 01:58:23,130
Normal people don't want to
create wallets etc. But we need

1707
01:58:23,130 --> 01:58:25,770
them to understand V for V and
they have tokens called SATs to

1708
01:58:25,770 --> 01:58:29,400
give podcasters and have a one
click top up which we have with

1709
01:58:29,400 --> 01:58:32,730
stripe. We need to hide the
tech. I'm in total agreement. Oh

1710
01:58:32,730 --> 01:58:36,930
my gosh, he just Okay, here we
go. Here's another quote from

1711
01:58:36,930 --> 01:58:41,010
Sam Sethi. Who was surprised
nope, true fans already uses

1712
01:58:41,010 --> 01:58:43,620
I'll be helped today and it
works. We do not have to change

1713
01:58:43,620 --> 01:58:46,500
your Albie API, we're going to
create virtual wallets to start

1714
01:58:46,500 --> 01:58:49,380
with that means two clicks to
get onboard. And we'll give them

1715
01:58:49,380 --> 01:58:52,950
a wallet with 5k SATs it removes
five to six steps we had to do

1716
01:58:52,950 --> 01:58:56,310
before with Albea we already
have stripe to SATs integration

1717
01:58:56,310 --> 01:58:59,670
so we can get people to top up
this wallet. We will also enable

1718
01:58:59,670 --> 01:59:03,270
withdrawal for podcasters of
SATs back to fiat Sam. We would

1719
01:59:03,270 --> 01:59:04,530
love to know what you're doing.

1720
01:59:05,580 --> 01:59:07,830
Dave Jones: Now he's just
rubbing it in he is he's got

1721
01:59:07,830 --> 01:59:09,480
access to it. Yeah, he's like

1722
01:59:09,810 --> 01:59:13,110
Adam Curry: Nene Nene and you
and your end. We'd love to know

1723
01:59:13,110 --> 01:59:14,910
how you're doing it brother
because we just want to help

1724
01:59:14,910 --> 01:59:23,580
everybody do this. Okay. Call
McCormick 2222 It's about Tom

1725
01:59:23,580 --> 01:59:28,440
curry gets back to work. Okay.
Yes. Okay. Did you know Biden is

1726
01:59:28,440 --> 01:59:32,400
a clone? Okay. Yeah, there you
go. Nein, nein nein from Jean

1727
01:59:32,400 --> 01:59:36,510
Everett. Thank you very much.
1948 from Sir Brian of London.

1728
01:59:36,990 --> 01:59:40,500
He says I drove a brown Buick
custom regal from Chicago to

1729
01:59:40,500 --> 01:59:44,490
Little Rock. Paris, Texas
Dallas, the grassy knoll Austin

1730
01:59:44,490 --> 01:59:47,070
San Antonio, New Orleans,
Memphis and back to Chicago in

1731
01:59:47,070 --> 01:59:52,590
three weeks an awful car. They
you go to jail Roland? No.

1732
01:59:52,590 --> 01:59:57,750
21,948 also from Sir Brian of
London. Ancient computers ranged

1733
01:59:57,750 --> 02:00:01,110
in the long caves deep in the
bowels of The planet take away

1734
02:00:01,110 --> 02:00:05,160
the dark millennia and the age
hang heavy on their dusty data

1735
02:00:05,160 --> 02:00:05,850
banks.

1736
02:00:07,919 --> 02:00:09,179
Dave Jones: And stop drinking
Brian

1737
02:00:11,550 --> 02:00:15,300
Adam Curry: 6969 from Hey
citizen he says please, Adams

1738
02:00:15,300 --> 02:00:18,570
new album we need this yes, I'll
work on it. Apparently I can

1739
02:00:18,570 --> 02:00:22,860
just do AI and fool myself. Sir
duck with 5000 SATs first live

1740
02:00:22,860 --> 02:00:29,580
boost he says 10,000 from Chris.
Chris last 10,000 Nice to have

1741
02:00:29,580 --> 02:00:33,420
you guys back 10,000 chatter
from pod verse. This boost

1742
02:00:33,420 --> 02:00:35,970
Graham is being sent from pod
verse app using my own node

1743
02:00:35,970 --> 02:00:41,970
connected Albu There you go.
Mary cat tooled. Mary Kate Ultra

1744
02:00:42,900 --> 02:00:45,510
takes a second to look at it
what can what is this? Oh Mary

1745
02:00:45,510 --> 02:00:51,300
Kate ultra 15,555 sets boosting
so the boardroom knows to head

1746
02:00:51,300 --> 02:00:56,310
over to live is lit.com on
Sunday, June 30 at 4pm for the

1747
02:00:56,310 --> 02:00:59,820
satellite skirmish a V for V
Battle Royale boost your

1748
02:00:59,820 --> 02:01:03,540
favorite D MU artists live to
ensure they win the battle of

1749
02:01:03,540 --> 02:01:11,820
the bands. And I think yes, took
the tone wrecker. Last 133 33

1750
02:01:11,820 --> 02:01:14,700
Rainy Day in Minneapolis is
perfect for cranking out some

1751
02:01:14,700 --> 02:01:18,510
additional college or collage
art pieces and catching this

1752
02:01:18,510 --> 02:01:24,180
live episode today. And overdue
day for the last 14 days worth

1753
02:01:24,180 --> 02:01:26,820
of booths and PayPals Yeah,

1754
02:01:26,850 --> 02:01:29,310
Dave Jones: this is this there's
gonna be quite a few Roland

1755
02:01:29,310 --> 02:01:32,310
seriously if you'd if you need
to get some sleep brother knows.

1756
02:01:32,700 --> 02:01:38,610
We're not offended if you drop
out. Buzzsprout 1000 bucks

1757
02:01:38,640 --> 02:01:44,790
Adam Curry: dough thank God
Sakala 20 his blade on am Paula

1758
02:01:44,820 --> 02:01:47,880
Buzzsprout keeping the engine
room running. Thank you guys.

1759
02:01:47,880 --> 02:01:49,710
Thank you so much. Appreciate
that

1760
02:01:49,710 --> 02:01:53,760
Dave Jones: as nice and warm.
Thank you, Kevin and Tom and all

1761
02:01:53,760 --> 02:02:00,840
the guys over there appreciate
y'all. We got blueberry $360

1762
02:02:00,870 --> 02:02:02,250
Wow.

1763
02:02:02,280 --> 02:02:07,710
Adam Curry: Sakala 20 Only
Impala, the hosting companies

1764
02:02:07,710 --> 02:02:10,620
coming in strong with the value
for value. Thank you.

1765
02:02:10,650 --> 02:02:15,270
Dave Jones: You need to go to
Holland more often. From the

1766
02:02:15,270 --> 02:02:18,750
blueberry team lots of internal
discussions on V for V and SATs

1767
02:02:18,780 --> 02:02:21,780
need to make it easier for
listeners and podcasters we get

1768
02:02:21,780 --> 02:02:27,000
it? They don't. They don't. They
don't see we get it. They don't.

1769
02:02:27,120 --> 02:02:30,180
So a Fiat token solution is
critical. Let's not forget who

1770
02:02:30,180 --> 02:02:31,860
we're serving here. Go
podcasting.

1771
02:02:31,890 --> 02:02:34,290
Adam Curry: What does he mean by
Fiat token solution?

1772
02:02:34,890 --> 02:02:41,280
Dave Jones: Just onboarding.
Okay. Trying to try to make it

1773
02:02:41,280 --> 02:02:41,640
easy.

1774
02:02:42,510 --> 02:02:44,700
Adam Curry: Sounds like Sam
Sethi has it all figured out?

1775
02:02:45,480 --> 02:02:45,870
Yeah.

1776
02:02:46,170 --> 02:02:50,010
Dave Jones: Yeah. I mean, like,
maybe, maybe Sam can run a back

1777
02:02:50,010 --> 02:02:54,240
end for for the hosting
companies. I mean, like,

1778
02:02:54,270 --> 02:02:57,390
Adam Curry: Oh, there you go.
There you go. Well, we're happy

1779
02:02:57,390 --> 02:02:59,730
to help. We just need to
understand how we can how we can

1780
02:02:59,730 --> 02:03:01,740
fit in VSP

1781
02:03:01,740 --> 02:03:07,260
Dave Jones: values service
provider, who? Sir Pete weenus,

1782
02:03:07,260 --> 02:03:14,160
RP $55.55. He says message, Adam
and Dave, great work on shaping

1783
02:03:14,160 --> 02:03:16,710
and preserving the next level of
podcasting. I follow your

1784
02:03:16,710 --> 02:03:20,190
discussions closely and have to
get half I have committed to

1785
02:03:20,190 --> 02:03:23,670
running with scissors lifestyle
with our own V for V podcast

1786
02:03:23,670 --> 02:03:27,360
called it's just a model. Here's
some fun coupons.

1787
02:03:27,720 --> 02:03:30,240
Adam Curry: Thank you. Thank
you, sir Pete for your coupons

1788
02:03:30,240 --> 02:03:31,890
and the bank. Yep.

1789
02:03:32,340 --> 02:03:36,630
Dave Jones: We got $50 from pod
verse. Thank you, Mitch. Thank

1790
02:03:36,630 --> 02:03:44,040
you. Yeah. Jesse Anderson's and
a $33.33. He there's no note

1791
02:03:44,040 --> 02:03:50,670
from from Jesse. Jesse Hunter
$10. And that was a one off.

1792
02:03:51,240 --> 02:03:54,870
Thank you, Jesse Hunter and
Kevin bass and as $5 is free

1793
02:03:54,870 --> 02:03:57,630
says this is the monthly
interest from the endowment

1794
02:03:57,630 --> 02:03:58,170
fund. He'll

1795
02:03:58,170 --> 02:04:00,900
Adam Curry: podcast co
podcasting to you bro. Thank

1796
02:04:00,900 --> 02:04:01,140
you.

1797
02:04:02,160 --> 02:04:05,100
Dave Jones: And we got some
boosts we got. Let me fire up

1798
02:04:05,100 --> 02:04:09,180
the boost machine here. Oh, we
got Mike dell 1701. That's a

1799
02:04:09,180 --> 02:04:13,830
Star Trek boost. He says at this
you fountain he says SM seven b

1800
02:04:13,830 --> 02:04:17,400
not in B seven or SP seven or
whatever. That's a Tod ism.

1801
02:04:18,240 --> 02:04:20,580
Adam Curry: Did I say wrong? Did
I say incorrectly? I

1802
02:04:20,580 --> 02:04:26,250
Dave Jones: don't know. Maybe?
Maybe. Andrew Grumman 2222 from

1803
02:04:26,280 --> 02:04:29,460
the wherever app. He says thanks
for inviting me to the board

1804
02:04:29,460 --> 02:04:32,790
room. It was a blast downloaded
at 10 extra times to run up the

1805
02:04:32,790 --> 02:04:33,240
numbers.

1806
02:04:34,350 --> 02:04:37,530
Adam Curry: Yeah. All our
advertisers will be happy.

1807
02:04:37,530 --> 02:04:41,700
Remember to set the automatic
download on your iOS app. binned

1808
02:04:41,700 --> 02:04:45,720
Dave Jones: over here comes to
downloads. Mike Dale again 17

1809
02:04:45,720 --> 02:04:48,300
And one he says can't type
today. I pass my check ride

1810
02:04:48,300 --> 02:04:48,780
today.

1811
02:04:49,860 --> 02:04:53,190
Adam Curry: Right on brother.
Yes, yes. Welcome to the

1812
02:04:53,190 --> 02:04:57,750
exclusive and rather small club
of general aviation pilots.

1813
02:04:59,070 --> 02:05:03,150
Dave Jones: Sir Brian have lunch
and 18 444 through cast Matic

1814
02:05:03,150 --> 02:05:05,760
says we had a good day here
today calls for a bigger boost

1815
02:05:05,760 --> 02:05:09,630
and a number you'll never fully
decode V four v dot app wallets

1816
02:05:09,630 --> 02:05:12,120
will be available for send and
receive very soon.

1817
02:05:12,420 --> 02:05:14,400
Adam Curry: Yeah, he's working
on his own solution which

1818
02:05:14,400 --> 02:05:18,030
incorporates it with the with an
lb like API. So

1819
02:05:18,870 --> 02:05:23,880
Dave Jones: he sends us videos
of people like buying steak

1820
02:05:23,880 --> 02:05:28,530
dinner in Colombia or something
with with his V for V app.

1821
02:05:28,560 --> 02:05:31,620
Adam Curry: Yeah, it looks.
Yeah, it works.

1822
02:05:32,760 --> 02:05:37,230
Dave Jones: Very slick. Randall
black 2000 says through podcasts

1823
02:05:37,260 --> 02:05:39,930
index, so through the apps
through the website that's using

1824
02:05:40,230 --> 02:05:44,280
lb says LB is driving me nuts.
They need to decide the route

1825
02:05:44,280 --> 02:05:46,650
they're taking and make it
easier to onboard or off board

1826
02:05:46,650 --> 02:05:50,100
users. Well, I think right from
the horse's mouth, they have a

1827
02:05:50,100 --> 02:05:51,630
Adam Curry: plan. Yeah, yeah.

1828
02:05:53,220 --> 02:05:55,980
Dave Jones: 10,000 SATs from
Mary Oscar, also known as Oscar

1829
02:05:55,980 --> 02:05:58,740
marry the fans and he says great
to hear more the history of

1830
02:05:58,740 --> 02:06:03,810
podcasting. What's he talking
about? I have no Andrew grommet.

1831
02:06:03,810 --> 02:06:06,000
Oh, yes. Yeah, so

1832
02:06:06,000 --> 02:06:08,040
Adam Curry: if you haven't heard
that episode, it's good. If you

1833
02:06:08,040 --> 02:06:10,380
want to hear some of the early
days of podcasting, the stuff

1834
02:06:10,380 --> 02:06:14,490
that no one ever talks about?
That was two weeks ago. Yes. Two

1835
02:06:14,490 --> 02:06:17,340
weeks ago the previous one it
was board mountain boardroom

1836
02:06:17,550 --> 02:06:18,870
board meeting 182

1837
02:06:19,650 --> 02:06:24,360
Dave Jones: right at 93 sets
from Red Bull through breeze Oh,

1838
02:06:24,540 --> 02:06:28,020
love breeze and seen magazine
was much boost action from

1839
02:06:28,020 --> 02:06:32,760
Brady's lately. He says I love
your music. We'd love you to

1840
02:06:32,760 --> 02:06:33,180
rebel

1841
02:06:34,230 --> 02:06:37,200
Adam Curry: must have been for
the song Bill Prague the

1842
02:06:37,200 --> 02:06:40,440
Dave Jones: hive guy through
SATs ski me through fountain he

1843
02:06:40,440 --> 02:06:44,790
says 2000 SATs he says I just
sent myself custodial hive to

1844
02:06:44,790 --> 02:06:48,120
fountain using V for v dot app
could be magic or it could be

1845
02:06:48,120 --> 02:06:50,100
Brian no idea that it works. I

1846
02:06:50,100 --> 02:06:52,380
Adam Curry: wonder if Brian is
actually creating invoices you

1847
02:06:52,380 --> 02:06:55,620
know like oh invoice here click
click click click if he's if

1848
02:06:55,620 --> 02:06:57,720
it's all automatic or if he's
doing it manually.

1849
02:06:58,530 --> 02:07:01,380
Dave Jones: I wonder if Bill
Prague is Brian's There you go

1850
02:07:01,410 --> 02:07:01,710
all

1851
02:07:01,710 --> 02:07:03,450
Unknown: the count that's the
question

1852
02:07:06,480 --> 02:07:10,950
Dave Jones: Oh, here we go. 6969
from a citizen in pod verse. He

1853
02:07:10,950 --> 02:07:13,530
says I don't actually care about
you guys. I'm just boosting the

1854
02:07:13,530 --> 02:07:14,550
song there you go.

1855
02:07:15,720 --> 02:07:16,440
Adam Curry: Man love you.

1856
02:07:17,580 --> 02:07:21,060
Dave Jones: Hey Sally, send us
another 6969 He says okay, maybe

1857
02:07:21,060 --> 02:07:28,710
I care a little bit we love you
to a citizen Mac 10,000 SATs The

1858
02:07:28,710 --> 02:07:31,590
family says sorry I missed the
show live but listen to the end

1859
02:07:31,590 --> 02:07:35,790
as a download from the air on
the way to Cali regarding bands

1860
02:07:35,790 --> 02:07:38,700
that Bitcoin please use the
Embassy Suites as your Meetup

1861
02:07:38,700 --> 02:07:43,170
location, food drink and all
things how V for V works. We

1862
02:07:43,170 --> 02:07:50,220
should have a full schedule next
week. No, I wonder if Mamak mom

1863
02:07:50,280 --> 02:07:56,130
AC oh mom in mu m. m AC I think
that's the mom of Ainsley

1864
02:07:56,130 --> 02:07:56,670
Costello

1865
02:07:56,730 --> 02:08:01,530
Adam Curry: Oh my goodness. I
thought that was music mama yeah

1866
02:08:01,530 --> 02:08:02,100
music mama

1867
02:08:02,130 --> 02:08:07,440
Dave Jones: Yeah. Music mama
Macintosh Sasha Richards 11112

1868
02:08:07,440 --> 02:08:09,690
Fountain he says if we are going
to consider major re

1869
02:08:09,690 --> 02:08:12,570
architecture of P two o set
streaming boosting et cetera

1870
02:08:12,570 --> 02:08:14,250
maybe 30 minutes

1871
02:08:14,820 --> 02:08:18,210
Adam Curry: Yes, another thing I
gotta look into it I don't I

1872
02:08:18,210 --> 02:08:19,980
don't I don't understand them
yet.

1873
02:08:20,580 --> 02:08:24,930
Dave Jones: No, I don't either.
I don't either. Don't record

1874
02:08:24,960 --> 02:08:28,320
3333 says a rainy day admit Oh,
do you already read though? A

1875
02:08:28,320 --> 02:08:29,580
rainy day and yeah,

1876
02:08:29,580 --> 02:08:31,170
Adam Curry: wrote yet by now.

1877
02:08:32,370 --> 02:08:36,450
Dave Jones: Yes. Yep. Comic
Strip blogger. 24,000 SATs

1878
02:08:36,600 --> 02:08:40,710
through fountain. He says.
Howdy, Dave and Adam. I like

1879
02:08:40,710 --> 02:08:44,430
again to recommend a podcast
called just two good old boys by

1880
02:08:44,430 --> 02:08:49,320
two Texans Ben and Jean. They
talk about fun stuff. Quote from

1881
02:08:49,320 --> 02:08:55,800
the last episode. Jean. Happy
Father's Day. Ben. Thank you. I

1882
02:08:55,800 --> 02:08:59,940
would say Happy Father's Day to
you but gene I'm not a father so

1883
02:08:59,940 --> 02:09:04,980
it wouldn't be correct. Been
that you know of gene. Yeah, I'm

1884
02:09:04,980 --> 02:09:08,520
pretty sure you know, I know
that. Because I'm not paying any

1885
02:09:08,520 --> 02:09:14,220
alimony find their podcast at
WWW dot just to good ol boys.com

1886
02:09:14,310 --> 02:09:20,310
Yo, CSB. Totally riveting as
much Wait,

1887
02:09:20,310 --> 02:09:23,850
Adam Curry: can't wait. Yeah,
that's it. That's our group.

1888
02:09:24,390 --> 02:09:28,920
Very nice. Oh, wait, wait, wait,
wait, wait, wait. While you're

1889
02:09:28,920 --> 02:09:31,710
looking at that, I'll just read
you the tally coin donations

1890
02:09:31,710 --> 02:09:34,650
tally coin. We have closed our
doors. Thanks for all the

1891
02:09:34,650 --> 02:09:35,370
memories.

1892
02:09:36,930 --> 02:09:40,860
Dave Jones: Nice. What it should
say is this. We've closed our

1893
02:09:40,860 --> 02:09:44,340
doors thank you to drips got
Yes,

1894
02:09:44,370 --> 02:09:47,370
Adam Curry: exactly. The only
guy the only person was ever

1895
02:09:47,370 --> 02:09:48,990
using it exactly. Yes.

1896
02:09:49,710 --> 02:09:54,240
Dave Jones: monthlies, Basil
Phillip $25, Lauren ball $24.20

1897
02:09:54,840 --> 02:09:59,490
Mitch Downey $10 Christopher
hyperbaric $10 Terry Keller $5.

1898
02:09:59,820 --> 02:10:06,690
It's silicone florist $10 Chris
Cowan $5 Paul Saltzman $22.22

1899
02:10:07,080 --> 02:10:10,320
Derek gives this girl the
greatest name in podcasting. $21

1900
02:10:10,590 --> 02:10:15,270
You're in Rosenstein Rosenstein?
I'm not sure $1 Daymond Cassie

1901
02:10:15,270 --> 02:10:20,370
Jack $15 Jeremy Garrett's $5 New
Media Productions. That's Tom.

1902
02:10:20,970 --> 02:10:27,540
Dollars. Thank you. Michael Hall
$5.50 Timothy voice $10 Trevor

1903
02:10:27,570 --> 02:10:31,380
Satan's lawyer $5 Do you think
that's on his LinkedIn?

1904
02:10:31,590 --> 02:10:33,360
Adam Curry: I hope so. Yeah.

1905
02:10:34,410 --> 02:10:38,670
Dave Jones: Jorge Hernandez $5.
Michael Gagan $5, Charles

1906
02:10:38,670 --> 02:10:43,470
current $5 James Sullivan $10
cone glotzbach $5, and

1907
02:10:43,470 --> 02:10:46,440
Christopher reamer $10. And

1908
02:10:46,440 --> 02:10:48,540
Adam Curry: thank you all very
much for supporting us with your

1909
02:10:48,540 --> 02:10:51,480
value, the whole project, the
podcast, everything has value

1910
02:10:51,480 --> 02:10:55,770
for value you put back into it,
what you get out of it, whatever

1911
02:10:55,770 --> 02:10:58,710
it's worth to you support it
support your podcasts index,

1912
02:10:58,710 --> 02:11:02,220
support your podcast app
support, everybody. This is how

1913
02:11:02,220 --> 02:11:07,740
we move forward. And we want to
thank Roland and Moritz for

1914
02:11:07,740 --> 02:11:11,760
hanging in there for supporting
podcasting 2.0 It's really, it's

1915
02:11:11,760 --> 02:11:14,670
been phenomenal what you guys
have done and we look forward to

1916
02:11:14,670 --> 02:11:19,260
solving and solving problems
making it more robust and more

1917
02:11:19,260 --> 02:11:21,810
sovereign in the future. So
again, thank you both for coming

1918
02:11:21,810 --> 02:11:22,230
today.

1919
02:11:23,460 --> 02:11:25,650
Unknown: Yeah, thanks for having
us. No, really, really looking

1920
02:11:25,650 --> 02:11:27,090
forward to that. Yeah.

1921
02:11:27,120 --> 02:11:30,540
Adam Curry: And onboard Dave set
to set it up because Dave is a

1922
02:11:30,540 --> 02:11:32,190
busy guy, so enlist onboard him.

1923
02:11:33,000 --> 02:11:35,400
Dave Jones: Brother day of
Israel is rolling still awake?

1924
02:11:35,580 --> 02:11:38,580
Do we get Israel and he's he's
still here. Yeah. He says, oh,

1925
02:11:38,610 --> 02:11:39,090
man, you

1926
02:11:39,090 --> 02:11:41,100
Adam Curry: are a trooper. Yeah.
Are you in Bangkok?

1927
02:11:43,200 --> 02:11:46,200
Unknown: No, no, up north.
Shanghai,

1928
02:11:46,440 --> 02:11:47,880
Adam Curry: Shanghai, Shanghai.

1929
02:11:49,980 --> 02:11:51,030
Unknown: may hang on.

1930
02:11:51,330 --> 02:11:55,050
Adam Curry: Oh, my hog song.
Okay. I think I had dinner with

1931
02:11:55,050 --> 02:12:01,410
her once. It's nice. All right,
everybody, Brother Dave, thank

1932
02:12:01,410 --> 02:12:05,520
you so much. Thank you,
everybody who jumped into the

1933
02:12:05,550 --> 02:12:08,130
boardroom on a Saturday. We
really appreciate it. We'll be

1934
02:12:08,130 --> 02:12:11,880
back Friday with another board
meeting with the participants of

1935
02:12:11,880 --> 02:12:13,560
podcasting 2.0.

1936
02:12:30,030 --> 02:12:34,590
Unknown: You have been listening
to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast

1937
02:12:34,590 --> 02:12:39,150
index.org. For more information.
Go podcast.

1938
02:12:40,170 --> 02:12:41,610
Adam Curry: Squish is the right
word.