S5:05:118: The disappearance of Amber Hagerman

[00:00:00] In 1996. A young girl went to ride bikes with her brother. When her brother decided to go home with all her, because she wanted to stay a little longer. She was abducted. Never to be seen again. Amber Hagerman became the namesake for what we now know as the Amber alert system. Was she ever found. Whatever happened to the person that kidnapped her. 

Was she murdered? Join us as we examine. The disappearance of Amber Hagerman. On this episode. of a day with crime 

[00:01:00] What's going on, everybody. Welcome to the episode of a day crime. We are your hosts. 

And Geneva

you are listening to season five, episode five, total case number 118 Geneva. How you doing? 

I'm doing great, dad, how are you?

Doing great. Doing great. Looking at those numbers, we almost at 120 cases. How you feel about. 

That's a lot.

I say we did quite good over the last past three and a half years, two months away from being four years. And we think all of you guys that are listening to us here today for being with us that long, once again, reminding you of a new feature that we do have, you can be in the audience 

all you guys got to do is drop us a line. Let us know you want to be part of the audience. We can get you guys the link. All right guys. So today's case is going to be a little bit of a heartbreaker. [00:02:00] We going to talk about the young lady that is responsible for what we now know As the Amber alert system.

We're going to talk about the abduction of Amber Hagerman Geneva. This is you. Are you ready to go?

As ready as I'll ever every.

It's all you. 

Okay. So these are, this is one of those cases that does not have like a nice Wikipedia page. Okay. Which is usually what we use. And then we cross reference so that you can follow along easily, but we will link the articles in the show notes. So you can find them if you want them. So the main article that I'm going to be using is a people article from January 13th of this year, which did mark the 26th anniversary.

 So there's not a ton of background on Amber. So [00:03:00] we'll just get right into it. On January 13th, 1996, nine-year-old Amber Hagerman was riding her pink bicycle beside her younger brother, Ricky, in a parking lot of an abandoned Winn-Dixie grocery store.

Ricky, at some point did decide. to ride back to their grandparents in Arlington, Texas, but before Amber could join him a man driving a black pickup truck, snatched her off of her bicycle, put her inside the driver's side door and took off. An elderly man witnessed the abduction from his backyard and told police that he saw a 1980s or 1990s truck parked earlier at a nearby laundromat before the assailant drove up, kidnapped Amber and drove towards the center of Arlington away from nearby highway 360 4 days later, a man walking his dog found ambers body near a creek[00:04:00] 

uh, roughly four miles from the parking lot where she was taken, police believed that the subject who is described as a white or Hispanic male in his twenties or thirties, and under six foot tall with dark hair was local to the area. They determined this based on the direction of travel when they left Winn-Dixie.

And then based on her being found in Arlington, she was abducted in Arlington. And yeah, it wasn't far from where she was abducted from the area where her body was found was extremely secluded, which is another reason that police believe that you'd have to be familiar with the area, to know where the Creek is.

 Of course her. Abduction and subsequent murders sent anquish and anger throughout the community. And beyond a Texas mother, Diana Simone, couldn't stop thinking about how a [00:05:00] kidnapper snatch Amber and escape without a trace. She said, quote, I can't get over this child. There has to be something we can do.

There were weather and civil defense alerts, so wouldn't, they do it for this. So at this time, Because of this case, the Amber alert was started, which now we get to our phones. They have been broadcast through radio and TV. It says 1996. It's just an alert that lets you know, a description of the child, the name of the child, I think they include the age and then whatever vehicle.

And if they have a description of the suspect. they think may have taken child. I know some people get annoyed by Amber alerts on their phones. I don't know how else we would get them now. Not everyone has regular TV. A lot of people do [00:06:00] subscriptions. while looking into the Amber alert, there are a lot of people that have tried to Google, like how to turn Amber alerts off on your phone

which I didn't even know you could do that. Did you know you could do that?

Ah, at least down here, we can't, it is an emergency broadcast. And it lights up. Your phone is it's controlled now by your phone company. So if you're able to turn them off, probably seeing you won't be able to be because it is controlled by their, I know down here, not only in California, do we get the phones?

All of the highway signs turned into Amber alerts. So as we were driving on the highway, we can see that?

there's an active Amber alert and it gives the full description like you would get on your phone. The only thing you can do, I can do is mute them. so like it gives this loud chirp. You can push a button to mute it, but I can't get rid of it altogether. 

 I guess in some places you can turn them off. I kind of feel like.[00:07:00] , why would you want to turn them off? You know, I feel like it's not a great thing to want to try. I mean, because what if, I just feel like the people, it would want to turn them off for what reason?

'cause some people find it being annoying, maybe an interrupts in the middle of their dinner. But the question I was asking myself, which I'm never annoyed by them is this. If my child was missing would I want everybody to know that my child has gone so you can help me find them, whatever. If it was your child, would you be trying to turn the Amber alert off, then you gotta kind of put yourself in the other person's shoes once in a while. 

I mean, I agree. 

 So Ms. Diana Simone, who I just spoke about, she called a local radio station in Texas with her idea of an emergency system that would be set up so that when a 911 call was placed, radio stations would immediately interrupt programming [00:08:00] to broadcast the alert. 14 days after Amber's abduction

she wrote a letter to the station requesting that if her alert system was put into place, it would be known as ambers plan, the plan, which was renamed the Amber alert, which Amber stands for. America's missing broadcast emergency response was put into place the same year. Today Amber alerts are used in all 50 states, the district of Columbia, Puerto Rico, and 33 countries to date, they have saved at least 1085 children in the U S according to the national center for missing and exploited children. 

Unfortunately, and shockingly, despite the far reaching impact of ambers case and over 7,000 tips, her killer remains at large. Now over 26 years later.

 Police Sergeant Gildan says, quote, we continue to have leads and there are still several leads that we continue to investigate extensively as possible suspects. A lot of people were referred [00:09:00] to Amber's case as what's commonly referred to a cold case, but for Arlington police department, it has never been listed as a cold case because we've never gone 180 days without having some lead come in

police are hopeful that recent advancements in DNA testing being used on evidence collected in Amber's case, as well as any new tips from the public will finally resolve it. There is a phone number for the Arlington police and for Crimestoppers of Tarrant county. We'll leave those in the show notes in case anyone listening does have any tips. 

Well, if you think about it, I was a teenager when Amber alert came out. It's also a teenager. When the other case that created a very national alert system happened to, which is Adam Walsh. If you hear the code code, Adam in the store means missing child. Walmart put that in place in 1994, after the abduction of Adam Walsh, which I think was in a Walmart that is.

yet another case that we will do.

But it's heartbreaking to me [00:10:00] that two of the bigger systems now is created because a child with missing the other day at work there was a code, Adam put out over the store. I'm in my heart, always think when I hear those. And so we all disperse them with looking for this child, but it did give us something good, but unfortunately, Amber had to die before we received 

Yeah. So this case is terrible, just because we don't have any answers to anything, because it seems that no one really saw the suspect. They saw his vehicle and they could give a very vague discription.

The thing is at least in her case, which is what gave me some hope that maybe the guy would be found is they had a vehicle in Adam's case. There was nothing. So he just vanished and nobody knew where he went. and it's kind of a cool thing that her case is still open because of the fact that they haven't went [00:11:00] 180 days without some kind of a tip.

Now, whether those tips are legitimate or not, it keeps the case open. So maybe we have hope of finding whoever this guy is 26 years later. If he's still alive 

Right. Which if we go off of that, he was in his twenties or thirties, almost 30 years later, we're looking at someone in there,

fifties 

fifties or sixties. So theoretically, this person can still be alive.

What'd you do know life has his way. Karma, baby has his way of dealing with you. 

I mean, that's also true. I'm just saying theoretically.

Yeah. theoretically. he should still be kicking.,. 

So do you think, cause this is something that I thought about, do you think. That the whole, like ancestral DNA thing. Do you think that might come into play with this case? 

Think it could, if the [00:12:00] right people do it, I mean, we found the golden gate killer that way. 

right. And he's old now,

Right. I mean, they had to wheel him in the wheelchair and 

like old, old.

but I think, yeah, if the right people, you know, killers and kidnappers are stupid, they never really lay low. They do these things that, well, no, one's going to catch me.

He's been almost 30 years. So you go and you upload your stuff and then it comes back to you. So all they really have to do is if they know a family member. Or if something was to happen to where a DNA was ran, if they, if they found DNA of any kind of anywhere on her bike or whatever it's possible, it'd be a little harder in her case just because we don't know right.

What to be looking for. I think golden gate killer or somebody came down the pipeline that was supposedly related to him from somewhere far off. And that's how they And then kind of, you're looking at other cases, [00:13:00] um, that people got caught with DNA. As you know, I call him the most dumbest criminal in the world, BTK, after they got his name, they actually went to, his daughters gynecologist clinic and ran DNA files from her. And that's how they really found out.

Who he really was.

 Yeah. I'm just, I was just wondering about that just because like you said, that was the case I thought of too was going state killer, but I do think you're right. I think it was like a cousin or grandchild, something someone came out and was like, oh, we're related to the golden state killer or whatever, but I mean, he's old.

He is like old enough to be a great grandpa, you know, and they still found him. I just feel like anything's possible in this day and age, I'm saying like with the technology and stuff that we have, I just feel like it's possible because it makes me sad. Like I'm glad that the Arlington police department does not treat this as a cold case [00:14:00] though, 

But the only reason is because they haven't went 180 days without the tip. If they ever go 180 without they will close it. 

But, that means that there are still enough tips coming in that they haven't gone half a year with no tips. Oh wait. In 26 years, they haven't gone 180 days with no tips. So that means that there's still enough people calling with tips, even if they don't pan out. Right. There's still people calling with tips.

Often enough to keep it going.

Right. That's why I said whether the tips are legitimate or not. I think citizens is doing this just so it stays open because they're aware that if nothing keeps coming on this case. They're going.

to close it. And unfortunately at the time that they closed it, they can have a bombshell break. So I'm glad it's still open So, what do you think about Amber alert system? code Adam. All these things that came because of tragedy with children. [00:15:00] Do you think that it's maybe not understand though. I know you was small back then, but these were actually years when kids went outside. So they lived in a small country area being that I'm from the south parents that their kids go out all the time.

Didn't worry about it. Back in those days, we didn't really have a huge. thought pattern that we let our kids out. They may not come back home. So what do you think about in that time and era? Would you think about those

 So 

I 

actually remember this case. This case, because I mean, I was only like, five ish, but I remember it because he was on the TV, 

right. 

like on the news. Right. So, I mean, I am part of the, the generation of children that got, you know, they were like, go play, go ride your bike to the street lamps, come on type [00:16:00] thing.

 It wasn't like, uh, people weren't concerned about their kids going outside and like running or riding around the block or going down to the closed elementary school or the park or whatever. Like there, wasn't that sense of like urgency, I guess, of being worried of like kids getting kidnapped,

especially if you were in smaller towns, of course, then nobody had a personal cell phone. You know what I mean? That kids didn't have cell phones, none of that, you know,

but then when things like this did happen while it gave us things like the Amber alert and code Adam, it took something tragic to get those things. And when things like this did happen, it upset everybody. It was, it's not like now, which I hate to put it like this, but it's not like now where we hear about tragic things.

And we're sad about it. But it's almost like we're [00:17:00] desensitized to it. Like we're used to these things happening. So we are sad. Like we feel sadness when we hear of things like, or people like Chris Watts or Casey Anthony, or any of the other terrible people that are out there, I don't think it's the same kind of uproar. As it was in 1996.

And I think it's because like you said, this is the type, there's nothing new in 90, 94, 95, 96 kids getting abducted. It was a brand new thing. Right. Then you sprawled off into the Atlanta child murders, a whole different thing. But yeah, my curfew was. Be home before the street lights go up, I'm, 8, 9, 10, 12, 15 blocks away from home.

My mom never worried if I was gonna make it in the house. And that's why these things, I say it takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch. As soon as one kid went, that started happening because maybe whoever these sick [00:18:00] individuals are like, you know, we live in these times where people aren't holding their kids, his hand walking through the store or, or they're letting their, their older brother or sister take him on a bike ride.

So it was easier at that point to do that. You wouldn't be able to do that this day in time. Cause now everybody got cell phones. Everybody's looking around. If you see something that looks like it's fishy, somebody calling somebody,

And also not only with cell phones, but also with the birth of social media, because people are taking video of things or posting things, even now let's say even if it's. Some random person. I see random posts from random people that I don't know. Right. They have gone viral because they've been shared a million times.

Here's a great example. So there was a thing for a long time about the applesauce pouches or the Capri suns with the mold in them. Right. W how I heard about that was not through the [00:19:00] news. It was not through like word of other people. It was literally social media. There was someone posted a thing where they had cut open the inside the top of the Capri sun because their kid had complained that it tasted.

They took a picture of it. They posted on social media, they made a public post and it went viral. And now if you look at all of the pouches like that, they have a clear panel on the one side so that you can easily see inside of the pouch.

It was easier for these people to hide because. You heard about it on the news, but there, there weren't, there wasn't this social media pre you know, where people could share about it. There was no, there were no cell phones for people to like take pictures of the car or the license plate, or even the individual themselves.

So it was easier for them to, to be under [00:20:00] the radar then than it is.

I agree. So we have to be more careful nowadays. then never, but I hear about those groups. I get told things all the time from Beth that this has happened and that's happened. And I'm like, Well, you hear that from is always the moms group. So social media has definitely been a big help in a lot of areas. 

All right. So are we ready for final thoughts? 

I say. Yes. 

All right. So my final thoughts are thankfully we got the Amber alert, but it's tragic the way that we had to get it, you know? And, uh, just to quote one of my favorites, Stephanie Harlow, if you want to turn your Amber alerts off, I feel like. You might not either, either a, [00:21:00] you don't think anything like that could ever happen to you, which I feel like is not great thinking, you know, or a Stephanie Harlow is say, you might not be a great person, but also don't come after me and don't come after Stephanie Harlow because I have to agree with her.

I really do, because I just feel like. If the safety of a child that had been abducted is getting an alert on your phone or on your computer or on your tablet. It's like what you said. Like, if that's annoying to you, then what if it was your child? Because there are parameters with the Amber alert.

It's not just any person. It has to be a child. So w when it comes to specifically the Amber alert, so that means that these children are, literal children. Like they are under the age of 18. [00:22:00] And at least most of the ones I receive are children that are between the ages of like five and 12.

If that's annoying to you, I just don't feel like you are a great person. That's just my opinion though. So I'm sad for Ambers family, and I do hope it's been 26 years, but it's still not considered a cold case. So I hope people keep giving in tips. I hope that this case is not go 180 days with no. So that it can continue to function as an open investigation.

And I hope we get answers. You know, your final thoughts.

Well, as usual, of course, rest in peace to Amber. My thoughts.

go out to her family. I do agree you have to be some kind of heartless individual. If you want to turn off these alerts, or if you feel like that they are inconveniencing [00:23:00] you. Like I said earlier, just think about it. If it was your child, you would want your child to be found.

And as these alerts that help people find their children, a lot of children have been found because of these alerts. So instead of being annoyed by them, you should look at what you may be able to do. Especially if that's in your area to maybe help out, if you can, otherwise, I would say people be aware of your children always hold them tight.

In this day and age, we never know who is lurking, who is watching and what can happen. So be sure to be careful when you're out with your kids, have them by you. And hopefully we won't have to talk about these types of cases very often in the future. All right, guys. Well, that does it for this one. We thank you guys for tuning in.

We hope you enjoyed the case as much as possible. Geneva. Do you have any shout out this week?[00:24:00] 

I have no showers this week.

I have no, do you have. 

I have no, shelters weak either. I'm not prepared to speak with shout outs, but I do have one. So I want to say thank you to Mariah for sitting in with us. Once again, this. And thank you to all of you guys who listen to us on a weekly basis without you guys didn't even, I would not be here.

So we thank you for listening to us

all right guys. Well, we hope you you're being safe out there. We thank you. Once again, for joining in, we know you have many opposites of true crime podcasts, and we are happy that for the last three and a half years, we have been one of those choices. So guys be safe. Take care of yourself. And each other and as [00:25:00] always don't commit any crimes out there.

So you don't end up on our podcast.