Arkansas First & Let’s Change The World Featuring Rodney Govens and Emiliana Vegas

WEBVTT

00:00:00.017 --> 00:00:06.117
Welcome. I'm Eric Fleming, host of A Moment with Eric Fleming, the podcast of our time.

00:00:06.457 --> 00:00:08.977
I want to personally thank you for listening to the podcast.

00:00:09.297 --> 00:00:12.737
If you like what you're hearing, then I need you to do a few things.

00:00:13.237 --> 00:00:19.377
First, I need subscribers. I'm on Patreon at patreon.com slash amomentwithericfleming.

00:00:19.797 --> 00:00:24.717
Your subscription allows an independent podcaster like me the freedom to speak

00:00:24.717 --> 00:00:28.017
truth to power and to expand and improve the show.

00:00:28.617 --> 00:00:32.937
Second, leave a five-star review for the podcast on the streaming service you

00:00:32.937 --> 00:00:35.697
listen to it. That will help the podcast tremendously.

00:00:36.297 --> 00:00:41.917
Third, go to the website, momenteric.com. There you can subscribe to the podcast,

00:00:42.357 --> 00:00:47.337
leave reviews and comments, listen to past episodes, and even learn a little bit about your host.

00:00:47.937 --> 00:00:51.937
Lastly, don't keep this a secret, like it's your own personal guilty pleasure.

00:00:52.337 --> 00:00:57.077
Tell someone else about the podcast. encourage others to listen to the podcast

00:00:57.077 --> 00:01:02.517
and share the podcast on your social media platforms, because it is time to

00:01:02.517 --> 00:01:04.317
make this moment of movement.

00:01:04.697 --> 00:01:10.457
Thanks in advance for supporting the podcast of our time. I hope you enjoy this episode as well.

00:01:15.357 --> 00:01:20.197
The following program is hosted by the NBG podcast network.

00:01:20.720 --> 00:02:00.240
Music.

00:02:00.678 --> 00:02:06.538
Hello, and welcome to another moment with Eric Fleming. I am your host, Eric Fleming.

00:02:06.938 --> 00:02:09.698
Today, I have two guests on.

00:02:10.598 --> 00:02:16.718
One is a candidate for office.

00:02:18.418 --> 00:02:25.958
When this podcast drops, Election Day will be the next day, November the 4th.

00:02:26.338 --> 00:02:33.938
I mean, 5th. I'm sorry. And so this this gentleman wanted to come on and talk

00:02:33.938 --> 00:02:37.318
about why he's running for office.

00:02:37.938 --> 00:02:45.978
And hopefully the people in his respective area will get some insight.

00:02:46.158 --> 00:02:53.178
And if they hadn't voted yet, that this will give them the encouragement to support his candidacy.

00:02:53.778 --> 00:02:57.498
My other guest is is an author and an educator.

00:02:59.038 --> 00:03:06.058
And she has written a new book that I think is very, very timely for where we are on the planet.

00:03:07.698 --> 00:03:14.178
And gets us to the point of what do we do after November the 5th,

00:03:14.638 --> 00:03:17.598
not just in the United States, but in the world as a whole.

00:03:18.298 --> 00:03:21.218
So I think you're all going to enjoy this show. I think you're all going to

00:03:21.218 --> 00:03:25.858
get something out of it and give you some inspiration.

00:03:26.498 --> 00:03:31.158
Because, again, the whole purpose of this show is to not only highlight people

00:03:31.158 --> 00:03:36.118
running for office or people in office, but also to show you that there are

00:03:36.118 --> 00:03:40.738
people out here that are not running for office that are doing the work.

00:03:42.158 --> 00:03:47.238
And hopefully their work gives those people who are running for office or in

00:03:47.238 --> 00:03:55.438
public office the inspiration to do the right thing and truly make a difference.

00:03:57.278 --> 00:04:03.478
So let's get this show started and as always we started with a moment of news with Grace G.

00:04:04.080 --> 00:04:10.000
Music.

00:04:10.284 --> 00:04:15.224
Thanks, Eric. A recent Reuters-Ipsos poll shows Kamala Harris leading Donald

00:04:15.224 --> 00:04:19.624
Trump by just one percentage point in the final days of the presidential race.

00:04:19.844 --> 00:04:24.144
Over 50 million Americans have cast early voting or mail-in ballots.

00:04:24.704 --> 00:04:29.324
Israel launched airstrikes on military sites in Iran in response to an Iranian

00:04:29.324 --> 00:04:33.524
attack, but avoided targeting critical oil and nuclear facilities.

00:04:34.064 --> 00:04:38.724
Over 200,000 subscribers canceled their Washington Post digital subscriptions

00:04:38.724 --> 00:04:42.704
following its decision not to endorse any candidate for president.

00:04:43.104 --> 00:04:48.144
The Philadelphia District Attorney's Office filed a lawsuit against Elon Musk's

00:04:48.144 --> 00:04:53.064
political action committee, claiming its $1 million giveaway to voters constitutes

00:04:53.064 --> 00:04:56.244
an illegal lottery and violates state laws.

00:04:56.804 --> 00:05:01.084
Authorities linked three suspected arsons at ballot drop boxes in Washington

00:05:01.084 --> 00:05:03.464
and Oregon, identifying a suspect

00:05:03.464 --> 00:05:08.364
vehicle and reporting multiple incidents that damaged ballots. A U.S.

00:05:08.664 --> 00:05:13.644
Judge approved a $102 million settlement related to a fatal accident involving

00:05:13.644 --> 00:05:16.824
a ship that struck Baltimore's Francis Scott Key Bridge.

00:05:17.104 --> 00:05:21.564
The U.S. Supreme Court allowed Virginia to remove voters from its rolls due

00:05:21.564 --> 00:05:23.804
to citizenship verification issues.

00:05:24.044 --> 00:05:28.524
A federal appeals court ruled against a Mississippi law permitting the counting

00:05:28.524 --> 00:05:32.224
of mail ballots postmarked by Election Day but arriving later.

00:05:32.224 --> 00:05:36.884
The Nevada Supreme Court ruled that mail-in ballots received after Election

00:05:36.884 --> 00:05:41.324
Day without postmarks may be counted Republicans asked the U.S.

00:05:41.584 --> 00:05:45.884
Supreme Court to intervene in a Pennsylvania ruling that requires counting provisional

00:05:45.884 --> 00:05:51.044
ballots from voters who made mistakes on their mail-in ballots A federal appeals

00:05:51.044 --> 00:05:53.404
court upheld New York's gun control law,

00:05:53.564 --> 00:05:59.044
allowing restrictions on carrying weapons in sensitive locations And President

00:05:59.044 --> 00:06:02.144
Joe Biden formally apologized for the U.S.

00:06:02.544 --> 00:06:06.484
Government's abusive treatment of Native Americans in federal boarding schools

00:06:06.484 --> 00:06:11.024
I am Grace Gee, and this has been a Moment of News.

00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:18.320
Music.

00:06:18.566 --> 00:06:23.286
All right. Thank you, Grace, for that moment of news.

00:06:23.626 --> 00:06:28.186
And now, it's time for a guest.

00:06:28.566 --> 00:06:33.566
My first guest, and his name is Rodney Govins.

00:06:34.126 --> 00:06:41.246
Rodney Govins is a U.S. Army veteran, husband and father, and longtime court-appointed

00:06:41.246 --> 00:06:44.286
special advocate for abused and neglected children.

00:06:45.186 --> 00:06:48.946
Rodney was born into a military family in Germany and grew up in Columbia,

00:06:49.506 --> 00:06:53.486
South Carolina, spending his teen years in foster care.

00:06:53.966 --> 00:07:02.026
But more importantly, Mr. Govins is the Democratic nominee for the first congressional

00:07:02.026 --> 00:07:05.966
district in Arkansas. He is running for that seat.

00:07:07.086 --> 00:07:13.406
And so as you listen to this, he will be on the ballot on Tuesday, Election Day.

00:07:14.626 --> 00:07:22.006
So I know it's the 11th hour, but the brother wanted to come on and I agreed

00:07:22.006 --> 00:07:27.986
to give him this platform to to make his pitch, not only to the people in Arkansas,

00:07:28.146 --> 00:07:32.266
but for those outside Arkansas that may want to help him with Election Day stuff,

00:07:32.586 --> 00:07:35.846
you know, as far as money or whatever the case may be.

00:07:35.846 --> 00:07:40.426
So, ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a

00:07:40.426 --> 00:07:44.666
guest on this podcast, Rodney Govins.

00:07:46.640 --> 00:07:55.920
Music.

00:07:55.686 --> 00:07:59.846
All right. Rodney Govins. How are you doing, brother? You doing good?

00:08:00.666 --> 00:08:03.586
Another beautiful day. I appreciate you having me. Thanks for taking the time

00:08:03.586 --> 00:08:08.386
out, man. Well, I appreciate you taking the time. This is crunch time for you.

00:08:08.606 --> 00:08:14.306
So I know you've got some stuff to do, but we're really honored that you took

00:08:14.306 --> 00:08:17.006
the time out to kind of talk about what you're dealing with,

00:08:17.426 --> 00:08:24.786
which to me is going to be kind of indicative of what is going to happen on Tuesday.

00:08:25.606 --> 00:08:31.266
So let's go ahead and get this started. Normally, what I do is I throw a quote

00:08:31.266 --> 00:08:34.986
at the guest to kind of be an icebreaker. So this is your quote.

00:08:35.326 --> 00:08:41.366
We can no longer afford for our leaders to stick to their stick their heads

00:08:41.366 --> 00:08:44.946
in the sand and merely hope and pray that it will get better.

00:08:44.946 --> 00:08:50.626
We must elect leaders who will who will work in the trenches to build a better

00:08:50.626 --> 00:08:56.566
system and find solutions that work for our Kansans in every income bracket.

00:08:57.086 --> 00:08:58.386
Talk to me about that quote.

00:08:59.266 --> 00:09:02.086
First of all, whoever said that sounds pretty great as a candidate.

00:09:02.226 --> 00:09:03.866
I mean, I totally support that guy.

00:09:04.606 --> 00:09:08.166
Well, what that you know, what that means to me is we we've got representation

00:09:08.166 --> 00:09:13.366
right now that screams about, you know, being pro-life. Right.

00:09:13.386 --> 00:09:14.566
I hear that throughout the state.

00:09:15.532 --> 00:09:20.872
But it doesn't sound very pro-life to me when we've got 4,400 kids approximately

00:09:20.872 --> 00:09:25.252
in foster care and only 1,700 approved foster homes in the state.

00:09:25.372 --> 00:09:26.552
That doesn't sound pro-life.

00:09:26.732 --> 00:09:32.272
It doesn't sound pro-life when our state legislator, backed up by the federal

00:09:32.272 --> 00:09:36.332
representation here, all four congressmen keep voting this way too,

00:09:36.532 --> 00:09:41.952
where we're kicking 300,000 kids off of Medicaid in the last 24 months alone.

00:09:41.952 --> 00:09:47.052
We're taking the most vulnerable child populations and we're removing health care.

00:09:47.272 --> 00:09:50.972
That doesn't sound very pro-life. And then it doesn't sound very pro-life to

00:09:50.972 --> 00:09:57.612
me when we sit back and we bury our heads and forget about our retirement community,

00:09:57.732 --> 00:10:01.392
our retirees that have worked so hard all their lives.

00:10:01.392 --> 00:10:04.952
They work their fingers to the bone. They bled. They sweat.

00:10:05.232 --> 00:10:09.472
They've cried over their job, putting in 65, 70 hour work weeks.

00:10:09.592 --> 00:10:12.992
And then we sit there and make them make the decision because they're living

00:10:12.992 --> 00:10:16.352
on fixed income, whether or not they're going to pay for their rent or whether

00:10:16.352 --> 00:10:20.092
they're going to pay for their their medicine, their life saving medicine.

00:10:20.332 --> 00:10:24.452
It just it doesn't sound very pro-life to me. We bury our heads in the sand

00:10:24.452 --> 00:10:28.332
and we don't talk about the very issues that impact us on a daily basis.

00:10:28.332 --> 00:10:31.492
And it's about time that we actually have representatives that want to start

00:10:31.492 --> 00:10:36.832
talking about and fixing the issues and not just trying to spout talking points about, you know,

00:10:36.952 --> 00:10:41.492
hateful rhetoric and things of that nature about issues that really aren't going

00:10:41.492 --> 00:10:43.392
to impact Arkansans right here locally.

00:10:43.392 --> 00:10:50.492
Yeah now you're you're running against the guy who is he's like from the original

00:10:50.492 --> 00:10:59.212
tea party he got in in 2010 he's one of the 126 election deniers in the house of representatives.

00:11:00.132 --> 00:11:07.652
I asked how did how did it feel debating that guy and what has been your response

00:11:07.652 --> 00:11:13.652
from people in community as you go up and knock on doors and talk to people,

00:11:14.704 --> 00:11:19.504
as far as how they feel he's been representing them and why they would rather

00:11:19.504 --> 00:11:20.644
have you in that position?

00:11:21.764 --> 00:11:26.904
So, you know, first, let me begin. You know, debates, to me,

00:11:27.144 --> 00:11:31.604
it's not personal, right? I don't know the guy, which is, you know,

00:11:31.684 --> 00:11:35.844
in line with the rest of the constituency. And nobody seems to know him.

00:11:35.904 --> 00:11:38.324
They don't know who their congressman is. They've never heard of the guy.

00:11:38.504 --> 00:11:41.404
But I don't know the guy personally. He could be a great family guy.

00:11:41.404 --> 00:11:42.444
He could be a great father.

00:11:42.824 --> 00:11:46.844
But he sucks at his job. And that's what I highlighted during the debate.

00:11:46.904 --> 00:11:50.144
And I got a lot of positive feedback on that. Now, he took it a little personal.

00:11:50.444 --> 00:11:54.324
He went at me in his press conference. He went at me during the debate.

00:11:54.764 --> 00:11:58.044
He was he was pretty upset. He didn't even shake my hand after the debate.

00:11:58.244 --> 00:12:04.144
So I think that speaks volumes as to the level of representation that he's been

00:12:04.144 --> 00:12:08.524
giving and that he's going to continue to give if he continues to remain in

00:12:08.524 --> 00:12:11.404
office because he doesn't care about anybody but himself.

00:12:11.404 --> 00:12:15.824
And that's kind of the story that I got about him throughout the years.

00:12:15.824 --> 00:12:20.204
And me living here in Arkansas, I live in Cabot, Arkansas, you know,

00:12:20.264 --> 00:12:23.964
right down the road and two minutes from his office. And he hasn't been there in over eight years.

00:12:24.284 --> 00:12:28.524
And I hear that same story throughout all 31 counties. This guy never comes

00:12:28.524 --> 00:12:32.144
around. And when he does come around, it's for a photo op or parade.

00:12:32.364 --> 00:12:34.204
And then he immediately leaves.

00:12:34.484 --> 00:12:38.664
He doesn't engage his constituents at all. So, you know, going door to door,

00:12:38.824 --> 00:12:40.344
having the conversations with people.

00:12:40.344 --> 00:12:44.264
We've got a lot of people that, you know, have Trump hats on that have Trump

00:12:44.264 --> 00:12:45.564
flags out front that are going to

00:12:45.564 --> 00:12:50.344
vote for us because we're bringing the representation to their doorstep.

00:12:50.904 --> 00:12:54.644
They've never had an opportunity to talk about, you know, any of the issues

00:12:54.644 --> 00:12:56.244
that they care about with a politician.

00:12:56.684 --> 00:12:59.964
And they said that's something refreshing that we're bringing to the table.

00:13:00.224 --> 00:13:04.584
And that even though we're running as a Democrat, they're going to throw their

00:13:04.584 --> 00:13:08.444
votes and tell their families to vote for us because that's something that they

00:13:08.444 --> 00:13:10.864
know we sorely need. And on that, we can all agree.

00:13:11.304 --> 00:13:18.324
Yeah. And that's that's always good to be able to to get people to to respond

00:13:18.324 --> 00:13:21.564
positively to the message that you're bringing to them directly.

00:13:21.864 --> 00:13:26.524
So you said your opponents said some things about you at the debate.

00:13:26.764 --> 00:13:34.744
Why don't you tell the listeners who you really are and why you decided to run for Congress?

00:13:35.734 --> 00:13:39.894
So for the last seven years plus, I volunteer.

00:13:40.074 --> 00:13:44.234
I'm a volunteer advocate with the Court Appointed Special Advocates out of Grand Prairie.

00:13:44.614 --> 00:13:49.334
We cover Monroe, Woodruff, Arkansas County, Lone Oak County.

00:13:49.994 --> 00:13:53.374
And me being in Lone Oak County, I primarily get Lone Oak County cases,

00:13:53.394 --> 00:13:56.994
but I follow my foster kids everywhere and I advocate for their voice in court.

00:13:57.294 --> 00:14:00.634
It's the best job I never got paid for. I always just want to help.

00:14:00.974 --> 00:14:05.074
Even when I was in telecommunications, I worked at Swift Fiber for many, many years.

00:14:05.074 --> 00:14:09.874
And for well for a few years and in the few years that I was there we brought

00:14:09.874 --> 00:14:14.334
fiber to the home internet as I was a state operations manager to places like

00:14:14.334 --> 00:14:16.594
Wilmot Arkansas Parkdale Portland,

00:14:17.194 --> 00:14:23.574
Eudora Hamburg Crossett Plumnoak Carlisle England Star City and even the outskirts

00:14:23.574 --> 00:14:30.734
of Lincoln County and the reason for that was for me personally no child should

00:14:30.734 --> 00:14:34.174
lack resources or opportunities simply based on where they're born.

00:14:34.514 --> 00:14:38.114
Every child deserves the same opportunities to be successful in life.

00:14:38.354 --> 00:14:41.514
And broadband is a big, big piece of that.

00:14:41.974 --> 00:14:47.074
So I advocate hard for the people that really feel forgotten because I know

00:14:47.074 --> 00:14:48.494
what it's like to be broke and poor.

00:14:48.774 --> 00:14:52.234
I used to be in foster care and that's why I do the CASA thing.

00:14:53.254 --> 00:14:56.674
Coming out of foster care, the statistics, I shouldn't have made it.

00:14:56.914 --> 00:15:02.414
I got lucky. And more than just luck, I had advocates in my corner.

00:15:02.574 --> 00:15:04.354
So I've got to pay that forward.

00:15:04.654 --> 00:15:07.994
And now the blueprint has been laid on how to advocate to people.

00:15:08.354 --> 00:15:13.774
And it doesn't take a genius to go and fight for the rights of every single

00:15:13.774 --> 00:15:16.814
person, every single human being right here in Arkansas.

00:15:17.094 --> 00:15:21.774
It just takes somebody to do it. And Dr. Jones was the one who recruited me

00:15:21.774 --> 00:15:24.374
to do this, man. Dr. Jones shouts out to Chris Jones.

00:15:24.894 --> 00:15:28.294
You know, my son thinks he hung the moon and the stars in my house.

00:15:28.594 --> 00:15:33.654
Hard for daddy to kind of compete with that with the NASA accolades and all that.

00:15:33.794 --> 00:15:38.734
But, you know, he asked me, you know, if I would run and he told me the only

00:15:38.734 --> 00:15:43.154
thing that he would ask me to do is advocate just as hard for the people here

00:15:43.154 --> 00:15:47.574
in Arkansas as I advocate for my foster kids. So, you know, I'm a veteran.

00:15:47.954 --> 00:15:54.454
I served my country from 01 to 05. I served in Operation Iraqi Freedom Part 1 from 2003 to 2004.

00:15:55.074 --> 00:15:58.674
So I know what war is. I've been in a war. I've been shot at.

00:15:59.374 --> 00:16:02.994
And I'm, you know, and I know what it is to have to go through the VA and understand

00:16:02.994 --> 00:16:06.714
the situations there. And when you know better, you do better.

00:16:07.194 --> 00:16:10.674
And now that I know better, I'm trying to do better. And I'm trying to help

00:16:10.674 --> 00:16:13.634
every single person that I possibly can right here at home.

00:16:14.634 --> 00:16:19.314
So talk about home. Talk about that first congressional district in Arkansas

00:16:19.314 --> 00:16:22.554
for the listeners that are not from the state.

00:16:23.815 --> 00:16:29.155
Where is that? And I know Jonesboro is kind of like the big city there,

00:16:29.435 --> 00:16:33.555
but like where, you know, where is it positioned in the state?

00:16:33.755 --> 00:16:38.415
And just some of the characteristics, why is it unique?

00:16:39.355 --> 00:16:46.675
Man it's big if you haven't seen it it's big ain't it we we got we got 31 counties

00:16:46.675 --> 00:16:52.915
in this district and it goes from boone county you know the biggest city in

00:16:52.915 --> 00:16:54.375
boone county is harrison arkansas,

00:16:54.975 --> 00:16:58.735
and i don't know you know and for the listeners that don't know i challenge

00:16:58.735 --> 00:17:03.075
anybody uh just google harrison arkansas and pull up the wikipedia page you'll

00:17:03.075 --> 00:17:05.475
learn everything that you probably want to learn about Harrison,

00:17:05.495 --> 00:17:07.355
and we can go into details a little bit later,

00:17:07.415 --> 00:17:12.215
but it goes from Boone County all the way over to Crittenden County,

00:17:12.815 --> 00:17:17.955
Memphis, West Memphis, Arkansas, and then it goes all the way down to Chico

00:17:17.955 --> 00:17:19.615
County, Eudora, Arkansas.

00:17:19.935 --> 00:17:25.635
So it goes and borders four different states. It borders Louisiana, Tennessee.

00:17:26.696 --> 00:17:38.276
Missouri and Kentucky. Yeah, it's like because I-55 goes through the eastern part of that district.

00:17:38.816 --> 00:17:42.516
Yeah. I'm sorry, and Louisiana. And Louisiana for, you know,

00:17:42.576 --> 00:17:45.856
Chico County is the first county after Louisiana line. So.

00:17:46.556 --> 00:17:49.856
Right. And, yeah, so, I mean, it's a lot.

00:17:50.016 --> 00:17:55.256
And that's the area that people call the Delta area in Arkansas. Is that correct?

00:17:55.776 --> 00:18:00.636
Yeah. And the Delta, for those that don't know, the Delta is so special,

00:18:00.636 --> 00:18:06.596
not just to Arkansas, but to America for vastly different reasons.

00:18:06.776 --> 00:18:12.636
Number one, every time you put a plate of food down in front of your kids, in front of yourself.

00:18:13.516 --> 00:18:17.456
You know, anytime you have a cookout, anything like that, more than likely,

00:18:17.836 --> 00:18:23.116
you know, over 80% probability, some of that food came from Arkansas and it

00:18:23.116 --> 00:18:25.576
came from the Delta region. We're talking rice.

00:18:25.936 --> 00:18:28.156
We got rice, cotton, soybean.

00:18:28.936 --> 00:18:33.116
Northern Arkansas has cattle farming like no other. Poultry farming.

00:18:33.396 --> 00:18:40.716
We've got two of the biggest farming industry giants in Riceland and Tyson are

00:18:40.716 --> 00:18:44.256
right here in Arkansas, and the Delta is the hub of that.

00:18:44.876 --> 00:18:48.756
So, you know, anybody that likes rice, man, I know I do. I'm telling you nine

00:18:48.756 --> 00:18:51.856
out of 10 times, man, that rice came from Arkansas. We feed America.

00:18:52.056 --> 00:18:57.836
Now, as an African-American myself, the Delta holds a special place to me because

00:18:57.836 --> 00:19:01.076
we have a lot of forgotten history that happened right there in the Delta.

00:19:01.836 --> 00:19:05.916
And nobody likes to talk about it. Nobody likes to acknowledge it.

00:19:06.296 --> 00:19:09.356
But it's time that we actually start talking about it, acknowledging it,

00:19:09.496 --> 00:19:13.496
embracing it, and learning from it. So the Delta is very, very special,

00:19:13.736 --> 00:19:18.816
not just to me, not just to Arkansas, but it should be special to the United States of America.

00:19:19.456 --> 00:19:25.296
So what are the most important issues for that district that you want to address

00:19:25.296 --> 00:19:28.096
as as the next congressman?

00:19:28.576 --> 00:19:32.456
So first and foremost, man, I want to make sure everybody understands.

00:19:32.696 --> 00:19:37.996
And I like to, you know, kind of equate it so that people can relate because I know I've been there.

00:19:38.696 --> 00:19:42.816
I remember there's times where I woke up, especially as a kid with my biological

00:19:42.816 --> 00:19:46.896
mother, before I got into foster care, where I turn on the faucet and the water's not coming out.

00:19:47.356 --> 00:19:50.136
And immediately in my head, the first thing I'm thinking is,

00:19:50.236 --> 00:19:51.916
man, did we forget to pay the bill?

00:19:52.456 --> 00:19:55.276
Right? Because that's the first thought that anybody would go through.

00:19:55.836 --> 00:19:58.796
But then when you go through, if you live in Helena, West Helena,

00:19:58.816 --> 00:20:02.036
and you get past that thought, you go look and you say, yeah, I did pay the bill.

00:20:02.706 --> 00:20:07.506
Now, typically what happens is you call the water company and maybe there's a mistake made.

00:20:07.646 --> 00:20:10.866
They got an address screwed up or maybe they've got a water main that got hit.

00:20:11.126 --> 00:20:14.626
And then within a few hours, you can go ahead and put that water in the pot

00:20:14.626 --> 00:20:17.186
and start cooking. Not in Helena West, Helena.

00:20:18.186 --> 00:20:23.266
Eric, they've gone weeks at a time on four different occasions this year.

00:20:23.406 --> 00:20:25.666
They've gone weeks without any water.

00:20:26.226 --> 00:20:29.626
Now, let's think about that. That means you got to go a couple of weeks without

00:20:29.626 --> 00:20:33.466
taking a shower. You got to go a couple of weeks without putting water in a

00:20:33.466 --> 00:20:38.466
pot to boil for noodles, for food, for rice, right?

00:20:38.746 --> 00:20:44.026
Like you can't cook, you can't clean, you can't bathe, you can't do anything.

00:20:44.026 --> 00:20:48.906
You can't have drinking water out of the faucet because it ain't working.

00:20:49.446 --> 00:20:52.366
Helena West Helena's water infrastructure has got to get fixed.

00:20:52.426 --> 00:20:56.126
And that should be an issue on everybody's table across the country because

00:20:56.126 --> 00:21:02.126
it is a human right. It is a human right, especially in this country,

00:21:02.306 --> 00:21:06.406
to have accessible, drinkable, potable water.

00:21:06.766 --> 00:21:10.706
If you're paying the bill, how in the world can you sit there and not have water?

00:21:11.206 --> 00:21:16.206
So that's the big issue. And to tie into that, another area in the Delta,

00:21:16.206 --> 00:21:18.726
there's a town called Elaine, Arkansas.

00:21:19.106 --> 00:21:22.106
Now, Elaine's got a history, and I won't get into that right now,

00:21:22.186 --> 00:21:23.846
but I'm going to talk about the water situation.

00:21:24.606 --> 00:21:29.166
USA Today went around to every single municipality across the country a few

00:21:29.166 --> 00:21:32.106
years ago, and they raided everybody's water tower.

00:21:32.946 --> 00:21:37.226
Elaine ranked number six in the country in the worst water towers.

00:21:37.546 --> 00:21:39.326
Number six in the country.

00:21:39.786 --> 00:21:45.566
Of all the cities and states, of all the counties, of every single place across

00:21:45.566 --> 00:21:48.886
America, they were number six worst in the country.

00:21:48.886 --> 00:21:55.406
And Elaine does not have the tax capital to bring to the table to qualify for

00:21:55.406 --> 00:21:57.506
a grant to get that water tower fixed.

00:21:57.886 --> 00:21:59.286
Now, that's something that I

00:21:59.286 --> 00:22:04.006
know I can directly handle and fix for Mayor Gilbert down there in Elaine.

00:22:04.266 --> 00:22:08.806
We can work together and fix that. So the big issue, you know,

00:22:08.866 --> 00:22:12.066
is infrastructure when it comes to water right there. That's the number one.

00:22:12.586 --> 00:22:18.666
Now, before you go on. So you said Mayor Gilbert. Now, is that the city that

00:22:18.666 --> 00:22:24.266
has the youngest mayor, the young man that came straight out of high school and got elected?

00:22:24.686 --> 00:22:29.686
No, no. That's Earl, Arkansas now. And that's also my district.

00:22:29.946 --> 00:22:33.966
That's up there by Critton and Craighead County out there down the road from

00:22:33.966 --> 00:22:35.266
Hughes. Man, I'm going to tell you.

00:22:35.946 --> 00:22:40.446
And Earl, and I'm going to tie in. This is my second thing when it comes to infrastructure.

00:22:41.226 --> 00:22:44.406
Earl does not have a grocery store.

00:22:45.268 --> 00:22:50.108
Let me say this. Earl Arkansas, the youngest mayor in the country,

00:22:50.308 --> 00:22:55.108
has been working his butt off and finally got a Dollar General Market in Earl.

00:22:55.388 --> 00:22:57.908
But they don't have a grocery store outside of that.

00:22:58.288 --> 00:23:02.488
Now, I can't imagine, you know, going through some of these places.

00:23:02.648 --> 00:23:06.388
I mean, there's Parkin, there's Earl, there's Hughes, there's these little smaller

00:23:06.388 --> 00:23:11.608
rural communities between Jonesboro and Helena West Helena. and you go into

00:23:11.608 --> 00:23:15.388
those towns and the only way that you get some groceries is at a gas station.

00:23:15.788 --> 00:23:19.528
I don't need a bag of Takis, Eric. I need an orange.

00:23:19.988 --> 00:23:26.728
I need a bundle of bananas, man. I don't need the Doritos Cool Ranch chips to feed my kids tonight.

00:23:26.928 --> 00:23:30.368
I got to buy some stuff to cook. I need some eggs.

00:23:30.788 --> 00:23:32.488
So we've got food desert.

00:23:32.928 --> 00:23:36.368
That's the second thing. And I think we can tie in,

00:23:36.588 --> 00:23:40.368
you know, in an infrastructure manner, we can tie in the ability to help the

00:23:40.368 --> 00:23:43.048
Earls and the Parkins and, you know,

00:23:43.188 --> 00:23:49.108
the Elanes and the Eudoras, where we can make sure that not only do we have

00:23:49.108 --> 00:23:53.628
access to this food, but that it is plentiful and we have opportunities and

00:23:53.628 --> 00:23:56.268
options when we go out to the grocery store.

00:23:56.668 --> 00:24:00.968
Don't nobody need to drive an hour out of their way to simply go grocery shopping.

00:24:01.648 --> 00:24:06.068
And then, you know, the other thing, you know, two other things is fixing the

00:24:06.068 --> 00:24:10.148
VA medical center, medical and administrative department.

00:24:10.608 --> 00:24:13.628
The VA has failed our veterans for decades.

00:24:14.228 --> 00:24:20.128
This policy that they have, it feels like delayed deny until they die. It's got to stop.

00:24:20.608 --> 00:24:23.408
I've got my own personal account, but I'm going to give you one.

00:24:23.568 --> 00:24:25.908
A friend of mine, and I can't use his name.

00:24:26.388 --> 00:24:29.488
I'm not going to use his name right now, but A friend of mine,

00:24:29.688 --> 00:24:32.328
he lives around the corner from my house.

00:24:32.668 --> 00:24:35.808
He's got stage four pancreatic cancer.

00:24:36.648 --> 00:24:40.528
His doctors have equated it to being exposed to toxic chemicals.

00:24:41.488 --> 00:24:46.228
Because he's never had a VA claim, he cannot use the PAC Act yet.

00:24:46.648 --> 00:24:50.108
So he's got to go through the rigmarole of filing a claim with the VA.

00:24:50.428 --> 00:24:53.928
And an intent to file is what they call it. When you finally,

00:24:53.968 --> 00:24:57.568
you know, drop down the paperwork and supply them, you know,

00:24:57.648 --> 00:24:59.808
with what you're trying to claim as being service connected.

00:25:00.008 --> 00:25:03.648
On average, it takes 134 days to process that claim.

00:25:04.208 --> 00:25:07.248
I don't want to get too, you know, I don't want to get too negative,

00:25:07.248 --> 00:25:10.488
but I don't know that my friend has 134 days, Eric.

00:25:11.108 --> 00:25:14.968
He's in hostels right now. And this is how we honor our veterans.

00:25:15.668 --> 00:25:20.108
Like this is what we do. We make them wait 134 days without any health insurance,

00:25:20.268 --> 00:25:21.208
without any health coverage.

00:25:21.688 --> 00:25:26.828
Imagine how many veterans come back from combat theaters suffering from physical

00:25:26.828 --> 00:25:32.828
ailments because constantly having to run away from gunfire or getting blown off of the tank.

00:25:32.948 --> 00:25:35.568
Because I've got a friend of mine that had that happen to him.

00:25:35.868 --> 00:25:40.408
Or you've gone through airborne training so your knee's a little messed up or

00:25:40.408 --> 00:25:45.448
you come back with the scars of war mentally and you can go over four months

00:25:45.448 --> 00:25:50.788
without any services being rendered to you simply because they haven't processed

00:25:50.788 --> 00:25:52.228
your paperwork fast enough.

00:25:52.688 --> 00:25:57.268
No wonder we have problems with veteran suicide and veteran issues and veteran

00:25:57.268 --> 00:25:58.468
homelessness in this country.

00:25:58.488 --> 00:26:03.588
It's about time we start expecting our VA to stop doing things in 134 days and

00:26:03.588 --> 00:26:06.888
start doing things within 134 hours for our vets.

00:26:07.348 --> 00:26:10.328
I'm tired of hearing thank you for your service when we keep electing these

00:26:10.328 --> 00:26:13.648
feckless leaders in office that don't want to fix these things.

00:26:14.168 --> 00:26:17.608
And then the last thing, which is near and dear to me, and of course,

00:26:17.728 --> 00:26:21.308
we've got a million different ideas there. So these aren't just the only things, right?

00:26:21.668 --> 00:26:26.428
But the last big thing for me, man, is that we got to do better for our foster kids.

00:26:26.928 --> 00:26:31.288
We got to do better for our foster kids. They're foundational in society,

00:26:31.288 --> 00:26:33.528
whether we want to talk about it or not.

00:26:34.088 --> 00:26:38.508
We have to do better for the 300 to 350 kids that are aging out of the system

00:26:38.508 --> 00:26:43.448
every year here in Arkansas, not to mention the number gets a little bit bigger,

00:26:43.648 --> 00:26:45.028
you know, going across the country.

00:26:45.508 --> 00:26:49.388
We need them to be fully equipped and ready to live independently and be productive

00:26:49.388 --> 00:26:54.548
members of society and not use foster care as a feeder system into the criminal justice system.

00:26:55.028 --> 00:26:58.628
It's time we start doing better by our kids. And I think we can,

00:26:58.828 --> 00:27:02.508
if we can fix a couple of those issues, I think we're going to do a lot better

00:27:02.508 --> 00:27:05.668
here, not just as a state here in Arkansas, but as a country overall.

00:27:06.748 --> 00:27:10.328
Yeah, well, based on that, what's your answer? It sounds like when you talk

00:27:10.328 --> 00:27:15.628
to Speaker Jeffries, because if you're elected, Speaker Jeffries is going to

00:27:15.628 --> 00:27:19.368
be the speaker, you know, just do a basic now.

00:27:21.708 --> 00:27:26.428
So it sounds like you're going to get on Veterans Affairs.

00:27:27.008 --> 00:27:31.588
It sounds like you're going to get on agriculture. culture and I wish I knew

00:27:31.588 --> 00:27:34.808
the congressional committees by heart up there, but I,

00:27:35.457 --> 00:27:40.357
I would assume commerce, I think, is the one that deals with the broadband stuff.

00:27:40.617 --> 00:27:43.837
And then whatever human services, health and human services,

00:27:43.837 --> 00:27:46.797
I think, is the one that deals with foster care.

00:27:46.897 --> 00:27:51.157
Those sounds like the committees you're going to be on if you get elected.

00:27:52.357 --> 00:27:55.277
That's the goal. Those are the ones that I want. Absolutely.

00:27:57.137 --> 00:28:03.497
So why did you, why did you in this climate of politics decide,

00:28:04.777 --> 00:28:06.957
yeah, this is, this is the time to run?

00:28:07.097 --> 00:28:11.737
Because this has been a very, very divided moment.

00:28:11.977 --> 00:28:14.737
It's much different than when I was in public office.

00:28:15.377 --> 00:28:20.877
I joke with my friends and tell them, I don't know, because I'm older and,

00:28:20.877 --> 00:28:24.977
you know, it's just a different time when I, when I served.

00:28:25.497 --> 00:28:31.457
I don't know if I would have the patience to deal with some of these folks in

00:28:31.457 --> 00:28:36.477
Washington. What made you decide, yeah, OK, this is the time?

00:28:37.417 --> 00:28:43.417
Man, that's that's a good that's a good question, because and I go back to,

00:28:43.717 --> 00:28:45.177
you know, this statement.

00:28:45.377 --> 00:28:49.477
I don't know who to attribute the quote to, but I've heard I've heard it used

00:28:49.477 --> 00:28:52.317
throughout the civil rights movement. I've heard it used recently.

00:28:52.917 --> 00:28:55.477
It's always stuck with me. If not now, when?

00:28:56.177 --> 00:29:00.357
If we really want change, are we going to sit back and continue to wait?

00:29:00.497 --> 00:29:02.157
Because how has waiting been working out for us?

00:29:02.757 --> 00:29:08.637
How has it been working out for us that we want change, but we don't do anything to affect the change?

00:29:09.557 --> 00:29:16.217
So if not now, when? And of course, my wife, you know, well, if not you, then who?

00:29:17.077 --> 00:29:21.717
Because we all want a congressional rep and we all want representatives that

00:29:21.717 --> 00:29:26.337
understand what it's like to live like us, to be like us, to be a member of the community.

00:29:26.737 --> 00:29:31.717
We want a representative that, you know, their kids go to these public schools that my kids go to.

00:29:31.977 --> 00:29:35.557
We want representatives that, you know, pay the same, you know,

00:29:35.697 --> 00:29:40.017
broadband and internet bill that I pay. We want representatives that understand

00:29:40.017 --> 00:29:44.117
what it's like when the bills come in and you got to make a decision on which

00:29:44.117 --> 00:29:45.877
bill you got to wait on. Right.

00:29:46.757 --> 00:29:51.957
Until you understand all that stuff, it's hard to get behind a representative

00:29:51.957 --> 00:29:54.797
because they, you know, politics is politics.

00:29:54.997 --> 00:29:58.217
Eric, you know that, you know, there's a lot of lip service that goes into it.

00:29:58.217 --> 00:30:03.157
But when you get somebody, especially when you get a candidate that that can

00:30:03.157 --> 00:30:08.277
actually speak to these things and that knows the issues and they're passionate

00:30:08.277 --> 00:30:11.857
about helping, like it's hard to find that candidate.

00:30:12.097 --> 00:30:15.637
And I sat there and I told Dr. Jones, we just got to find that candidate.

00:30:15.817 --> 00:30:17.517
And he kept telling me, well, maybe it's you.

00:30:18.037 --> 00:30:22.297
You know what? If not now, when? And if not you, who?

00:30:22.837 --> 00:30:27.137
So that's that's kind of why I said, you know, now's got to be the time.

00:30:27.777 --> 00:30:31.837
It's got to be the time. The season for change is always around you,

00:30:32.217 --> 00:30:34.917
right? Ecclesiastes, I think, chapter three, verse 28.

00:30:35.497 --> 00:30:40.797
There's a season for everything, right? Leaves change on the trees, crops come and go.

00:30:41.277 --> 00:30:45.677
Well, a season for change is upon us, and we can make that change.

00:30:45.717 --> 00:30:48.757
We just got to work. We got to put in the work to do it.

00:30:49.017 --> 00:30:54.817
And I know about me, ain't nobody going to outwork me. You might out-raise me when it comes to money.

00:30:55.077 --> 00:30:57.877
You might be a better fundraiser. You might be a better salesman,

00:30:58.017 --> 00:31:01.157
but nobody's going to outwork me and nobody's going to care more than I do.

00:31:02.837 --> 00:31:08.017
So following up on that, what do you think is the most important characteristic

00:31:08.017 --> 00:31:13.177
for an elected official, especially a member of Congress to have?

00:31:15.670 --> 00:31:21.010
Critical thinking and relatability, if I could bundle both of those up,

00:31:21.330 --> 00:31:26.930
because it's hard to, you know, and I always go back to like my favorite politician of all time.

00:31:27.090 --> 00:31:30.610
I was a kid, Eric. I'm only 41 years old. I was a kid when this was going on.

00:31:30.710 --> 00:31:35.530
But when Bill Clinton ran for president, I remember sneaking out of out of my bedroom.

00:31:35.730 --> 00:31:41.470
I was living with my biological mother at the time, snuck out of my bedroom, turn the TV on real low.

00:31:41.550 --> 00:31:45.330
And I watched Arsenio Hall because I heard that this dude was going to be on

00:31:45.330 --> 00:31:46.690
there. And I wanted to see this dude.

00:31:47.410 --> 00:31:53.510
And he jumps on the saxophone and he talks about, you know, he talked about smoking marijuana.

00:31:53.930 --> 00:31:56.910
Right. Where he said, you know, he's never inhaled or whatever. Right.

00:31:57.370 --> 00:32:01.150
And I remember laughing to myself because that's exactly what I heard some of

00:32:01.150 --> 00:32:05.050
the guys in my neighborhood say, you know, like, you know, just tell the cops

00:32:05.050 --> 00:32:06.470
that you never inhaled it. Right.

00:32:06.610 --> 00:32:09.910
Like, and I always laughed about that because it was so relatable.

00:32:10.210 --> 00:32:13.690
And he talked about coming up poor, talk about coming up, you know,

00:32:13.830 --> 00:32:16.210
trailer parks and, you know, dirt floors.

00:32:16.410 --> 00:32:18.670
And I'm looking around like that's kind of like me.

00:32:19.030 --> 00:32:23.970
And I remember how relatable he was. And I remember how much critical thinking

00:32:23.970 --> 00:32:28.650
he had and how important education was to him. And I said, man, that makes sense.

00:32:29.170 --> 00:32:34.030
Everything he's saying makes sense. And when you think about it, he's right.

00:32:34.590 --> 00:32:38.550
And that's the most important thing to have, because when you get a representative

00:32:38.550 --> 00:32:42.490
that's out of touch, like the guy we currently got, look at what happens.

00:32:42.970 --> 00:32:46.690
You never know who he is. He's never around. And the only thing he cares about

00:32:46.690 --> 00:32:48.950
is padding his own pockets. That's not helping nobody.

00:32:49.744 --> 00:32:54.084
The only people that he's helping are people that relate to him,

00:32:54.404 --> 00:33:01.304
the rich, the corporate entities, the guys that are literally trying to put

00:33:01.304 --> 00:33:03.004
people in slave factories.

00:33:03.864 --> 00:33:07.904
Those are the people that he relates to. Those are the people that relate to him.

00:33:08.284 --> 00:33:12.044
Well, we need representatives that can actually relate to the average person

00:33:12.044 --> 00:33:15.544
struggling, living paycheck to paycheck, because I know what that's like. I live that life.

00:33:16.184 --> 00:33:19.804
I've lived that life. if I understand what it's like to try to build a career

00:33:19.804 --> 00:33:24.604
and go to school so that you can have the educational accolades to get the next promotion.

00:33:25.284 --> 00:33:30.164
He's never had to go through that. So when I look at what, what values I want

00:33:30.164 --> 00:33:34.264
a representative to have, I need relatability and critical thinking are the core.

00:33:35.264 --> 00:33:41.284
Yeah. And I think that's important. So let me, let me close out with, with this question.

00:33:41.704 --> 00:33:44.684
Now your opponent, like I said, it's been there.

00:33:45.464 --> 00:33:48.664
He was, he was part of the Tea Party revolt that got in there.

00:33:49.404 --> 00:33:54.164
And that district has been considered heavy Republican.

00:33:55.444 --> 00:33:58.944
You know, in 2008, when I ran for the U.S.

00:33:59.024 --> 00:34:04.104
Senate, you know, Barack Obama was on the ticket and it was a lot of enthusiasm

00:34:04.104 --> 00:34:09.584
and people thought I was going to win because it was just that momentum, that energy.

00:34:10.064 --> 00:34:15.844
And I was running in Mississippi. So, you know, So neither one of us won Mississippi.

00:34:17.444 --> 00:34:23.884
And primarily because, yeah, it was it was a big turnout, a bigger turnout than

00:34:23.884 --> 00:34:31.564
ever had been for people that look like us and vote the way that we want people to vote.

00:34:32.004 --> 00:34:34.004
But they had a huge turnout, too.

00:34:34.484 --> 00:34:38.784
And that guy that I ran against got more votes than he ever got in his life.

00:34:39.104 --> 00:34:42.184
And he had been in Congress since 1979.

00:34:43.904 --> 00:34:51.644
So what what gives you hope that this election in 2024 is going to be different?

00:34:51.644 --> 00:34:53.464
What what are you seeing?

00:34:53.784 --> 00:35:00.364
What are you feeling that people are going to I mean, you kind of touched on

00:35:00.364 --> 00:35:02.824
a little bit when you talk about your door to door experiences.

00:35:02.824 --> 00:35:07.884
But what what gives you hope that this is not going to be a typical year and

00:35:07.884 --> 00:35:14.044
that it's not going to be, you know, in some of these red districts that is

00:35:14.044 --> 00:35:15.424
going to be business as usual?

00:35:16.144 --> 00:35:19.224
I'm going to give you I'm going to give you I'm going to give you an example.

00:35:19.424 --> 00:35:24.664
It ties in two places. Eudora, Arkansas, which is majority African-American.

00:35:25.164 --> 00:35:29.724
I would contend it's about 80 percent, maybe 85 percent African-American.

00:35:30.004 --> 00:35:33.704
And then I'm going to use Harrison, Arkansas. For your listeners that don't

00:35:33.704 --> 00:35:38.984
know, Harrison, Arkansas is the unofficial capital of KKK, led by a gentleman

00:35:38.984 --> 00:35:40.384
by the name of Thomas Robb.

00:35:40.644 --> 00:35:43.964
He owns a radio station. It's actually called White Pride Radio.

00:35:44.244 --> 00:35:48.784
Can't make that up. And he has a billboard on Highway 65 going into Harrison.

00:35:48.784 --> 00:35:50.024
It's outside of city limits.

00:35:50.204 --> 00:35:54.224
They own the land. They own the billboard. And he has a White Pride Radio sign

00:35:54.224 --> 00:35:56.944
up. I'm not even going to give you the slogan. It's so stupid.

00:35:57.364 --> 00:36:01.964
But I will tell you this. I go to Harrison. And I went door to door.

00:36:02.604 --> 00:36:07.104
I've been there several times and, you know, it's hard to believe,

00:36:07.164 --> 00:36:10.124
but Harrison, the people there have shown me love and here's why.

00:36:11.215 --> 00:36:18.375
I'm not going to slink. I am not going to shy away from, and I am not going

00:36:18.375 --> 00:36:23.855
to cower down to any ideology that, you know,

00:36:24.035 --> 00:36:28.615
is hindering the progress of working for the people.

00:36:28.855 --> 00:36:33.655
And when I go door to door as an African-American man in a very,

00:36:33.855 --> 00:36:39.795
very heavily racist city historically, right, you go in with an expectation.

00:36:40.395 --> 00:36:43.755
Well, this is the way Harrison is. And I hear it from people all the time.

00:36:43.935 --> 00:36:45.595
You don't want to go up there, Rodney.

00:36:45.875 --> 00:36:48.995
You know how you look. You know how they treat us up there.

00:36:49.735 --> 00:36:54.675
90% of the people up there in Harrison are good people. It's the extreme 10% that are not.

00:36:55.075 --> 00:37:02.475
So when I go up there and it feels different than what everybody has tried to prep me for.

00:37:02.715 --> 00:37:06.175
And I have these conversations with people and they tell me about their issues.

00:37:06.315 --> 00:37:10.115
They care about women's rights. They care about public education.

00:37:10.295 --> 00:37:13.195
They care about rural broadband expansion.

00:37:13.435 --> 00:37:15.875
These are things that they tell me they care about going door to door.

00:37:16.295 --> 00:37:20.475
They care about having an ambulance desert, right? They're tired of having people

00:37:20.475 --> 00:37:23.355
have to take an hour, hour and a half ambulance rides into Harrison.

00:37:23.715 --> 00:37:27.155
These are things they care about. When I go down to Eudora, which is overwhelmingly

00:37:27.155 --> 00:37:31.315
black, why do I hear the same issues come up every door to door that I go to?

00:37:31.935 --> 00:37:38.415
What gives me hope is we have more in common with each other than we have dissimilarities.

00:37:39.095 --> 00:37:43.015
See, we're so, we're so, so very similar.

00:37:43.535 --> 00:37:47.535
And all it takes is a little bit of conversation. That's all it takes.

00:37:47.895 --> 00:37:51.895
So it's amazing to me when I go up to Harrison and I talk about the issues with

00:37:51.895 --> 00:37:54.295
people and they start saying, you know what?

00:37:54.295 --> 00:37:57.195
I agree with that you know what i agree with that

00:37:57.195 --> 00:38:00.455
you know what you ain't too bad who you

00:38:00.455 --> 00:38:03.955
running against you're running as a democrat wait a minute you're running as

00:38:03.955 --> 00:38:08.455
a democrat and i get people that are wearing trump hats and trump overalls something

00:38:08.455 --> 00:38:11.435
i'm telling you right now is the craziest thing i've ever seen over there in

00:38:11.435 --> 00:38:15.195
jasper arkansas they got trump overalls man the dude knows how to market some

00:38:15.195 --> 00:38:18.775
stuff these people are saying i'm voting for you.

00:38:19.596 --> 00:38:23.976
Now, these people, I look at them and they say, listen, I'm voting for Donald

00:38:23.976 --> 00:38:25.196
Trump, but I'm voting for you.

00:38:25.316 --> 00:38:28.996
I'm finding your name on the ballot. And it's because you're talking to me.

00:38:29.276 --> 00:38:30.756
You're not talking at me.

00:38:31.096 --> 00:38:34.636
And then I take that same message and that same approach throughout the Delta.

00:38:35.076 --> 00:38:39.496
And the same exact message resonates with every single person.

00:38:40.056 --> 00:38:44.796
What gives me hope is the fact that people are tired of the same old rigmarole and rhetoric.

00:38:45.076 --> 00:38:48.516
They're tired of the divisive nature of politics and what it has become.

00:38:48.516 --> 00:38:50.376
Not everything is a political issue.

00:38:50.876 --> 00:38:58.796
So it is it is it is refreshing to know when I can sit in front of a Trump advocate

00:38:58.796 --> 00:39:04.136
and I can sit in front of somebody voting for Kamala Harris like myself and

00:39:04.136 --> 00:39:09.036
they listen to what I have to say and they look at the platform and they say he's the guy.

00:39:09.796 --> 00:39:13.696
That's what gives me hope and word spreads. And the other thing is,

00:39:13.756 --> 00:39:17.116
and I appreciate my opponent for this, too, since he filed that lawsuit that

00:39:17.116 --> 00:39:18.376
kind of helped us out a lot, too.

00:39:18.516 --> 00:39:25.276
I think the veil is starting to become uncovered on what, not just my opponent,

00:39:25.376 --> 00:39:27.196
but what the Republican Party is all about.

00:39:27.316 --> 00:39:29.916
And this lawsuit is a perfect example of this.

00:39:30.076 --> 00:39:34.736
Right now, if you go and Google Rick Crawford lawsuit, it tells you everything you need to know.

00:39:35.036 --> 00:39:40.416
This man is suing the American taxpayer for 12 years of back pay into his retirement account.

00:39:40.556 --> 00:39:43.816
He wants 12 years of back pay into his checking account immediately.

00:39:43.976 --> 00:39:47.556
And he wants an immediate pay raise above $200,000 a year.

00:39:48.116 --> 00:39:51.296
Now, Mr. Fleming, you know, you're a politician.

00:39:51.936 --> 00:39:54.036
Congress votes on their raises every session.

00:39:54.885 --> 00:40:00.065
So him and a majority of his peers in Congress have voted not to give themselves

00:40:00.065 --> 00:40:03.465
raises, I think, since 2009 or 2010.

00:40:03.945 --> 00:40:10.285
So he's been stuck at $174,000 a year, which is five times more than the average

00:40:10.285 --> 00:40:13.645
Arkansan, three times more than the entire average household.

00:40:13.985 --> 00:40:17.025
And you're going to sit here and tell me you can't get by on that.

00:40:17.025 --> 00:40:23.445
And instead of suing Hakeem and Nancy and Mitch and Mike, you want to sue the

00:40:23.445 --> 00:40:25.865
American tax, but you're suing your own constituency.

00:40:26.645 --> 00:40:31.685
The Republican Party is is that is the Republican Party for you in a nutshell.

00:40:32.065 --> 00:40:35.705
And that is my opponent in a nutshell. He does not care about you.

00:40:36.165 --> 00:40:39.345
He does not care about the people he's supposed to be representing.

00:40:39.525 --> 00:40:43.765
He gives he is less than two craps about the help people in hell in the West.

00:40:43.765 --> 00:40:46.725
He never been there. But you know what he does care about?

00:40:47.025 --> 00:40:51.665
He cares about going up to Harrison for a book signing because he wanted to make some money.

00:40:52.045 --> 00:40:55.705
He cares about having fundraisers so that he can make some money.

00:40:56.005 --> 00:41:00.305
And he cares about padding his pockets, which is why he's suing us. He's suing you.

00:41:00.485 --> 00:41:05.085
He's suing me. He's suing the American people for back paying a pay raise.

00:41:05.565 --> 00:41:09.125
What gives me hope is when no matter who you are, what side of the aisle you

00:41:09.125 --> 00:41:12.685
stand on, when you hear that, we all agree.

00:41:13.005 --> 00:41:18.765
That's a little much to swallow and take. It's a little too egregious for everybody's taste.

00:41:19.905 --> 00:41:24.025
Yeah. And it's like, you know, when you, first of all, when you run for office.

00:41:25.225 --> 00:41:27.725
You about to get me on a rant here, I'll be brief.

00:41:27.845 --> 00:41:31.825
But it's like, when you, when you run for office, you know, it's like,

00:41:32.365 --> 00:41:33.665
it's not about the money.

00:41:34.165 --> 00:41:41.725
It's about the service. Right. And then once you are informed of what the pay is,

00:41:42.759 --> 00:41:47.759
That's what you sign up for, because it's not like you negotiating your salary when you get in there.

00:41:47.879 --> 00:41:51.839
It's not like, oh, I'm going to give you a performance-based raise based on

00:41:51.839 --> 00:41:54.359
the work you're doing compared to other members of the legislature.

00:41:54.459 --> 00:41:55.459
No, that's not how that works.

00:41:56.359 --> 00:42:03.699
And I say that as somebody that served in the lowest paid state legislature in America.

00:42:04.139 --> 00:42:10.699
And I don't regret one bit of that because my job was to represent my constituents.

00:42:10.699 --> 00:42:14.939
Whatever I got was a blessing from God for doing that kind of work,

00:42:14.939 --> 00:42:17.879
considering I was only going to be up there three or four months a year.

00:42:18.519 --> 00:42:22.339
So, you know, yeah, that's that's very telling.

00:42:22.679 --> 00:42:27.199
Well, here's the thing. Right. And I want to make sure not to cut you off,

00:42:27.279 --> 00:42:32.459
but I want to make sure, you know, people people understand because this is this is his response.

00:42:33.039 --> 00:42:36.139
He had a press conference after the debate that we had where he didn't even

00:42:36.139 --> 00:42:37.639
want to shake my hand after the debate.

00:42:37.639 --> 00:42:40.819
I thought that was funny, but he's in his press conference and somebody asked

00:42:40.819 --> 00:42:46.179
him a question contrasting my campaign versus, you know, his run for reelection

00:42:46.179 --> 00:42:50.639
in which they talked about how, you know, I've knocked over 8000 doors.

00:42:50.959 --> 00:42:55.919
I've held town halls. I go out and talk to the constituency and his campaign

00:42:55.919 --> 00:42:58.739
and his run for reelection. He is not doing any of that.

00:42:58.979 --> 00:43:01.519
He hasn't had a town hall in over 12 years. Right.

00:43:02.159 --> 00:43:06.659
And he's his comment. His response was, that's what you have to do when you

00:43:06.659 --> 00:43:08.159
don't have any name recognition.

00:43:08.479 --> 00:43:11.479
Well, let me go ahead and contend that contest that a little bit.

00:43:12.119 --> 00:43:15.679
I contend that. No, that's the job.

00:43:16.159 --> 00:43:19.939
See, you're in public service. You're supposed to be there to represent people's voices.

00:43:20.119 --> 00:43:22.919
How can you represent somebody's voice when you never talk to them,

00:43:23.139 --> 00:43:26.259
when you've never been accessible, when you've never gone out of your way to

00:43:26.259 --> 00:43:32.239
hold a town hall, when you've never heard somebody tell you how they feel about an issue?

00:43:32.319 --> 00:43:34.679
How can you then turn around and represent my voice?

00:43:34.819 --> 00:43:38.879
You're not representing my voice, you're representing your own. And that is not the job.

00:43:39.819 --> 00:43:44.539
That's what I contend is when you're in public service, that's what you're supposed to do.

00:43:44.899 --> 00:43:48.139
See, you're supposed to go to Harrison, Arkansas, even if you are black like me.

00:43:48.559 --> 00:43:51.219
And you're supposed to have a conversation with those people up there.

00:43:51.599 --> 00:43:54.619
And then you're supposed to go down to Eudora and have a conversation with them.

00:43:54.719 --> 00:43:58.179
And you're supposed to go over to hell in the West Helen and have a conversation with them.

00:43:58.459 --> 00:44:03.519
The job is exactly what we've been doing on this campaign, and it should never stop.

00:44:03.839 --> 00:44:08.859
It is public service. That is service to the public. You are absolutely correct.

00:44:10.219 --> 00:44:14.399
So, ladies and gentlemen, you've been listening to Rodney Govins,

00:44:14.399 --> 00:44:19.739
who is the Democratic nominee for the first congressional district of Arkansas.

00:44:20.399 --> 00:44:23.239
Rodney, if people want to get involved with your campaign.

00:44:24.665 --> 00:44:27.685
It's going to be kind of the 11th hour when people hear this,

00:44:27.805 --> 00:44:33.225
but if people want to give a donation to you or help you out,

00:44:33.505 --> 00:44:36.045
just go ahead and let people know how they can do that.

00:44:36.465 --> 00:44:41.005
Yeah, we would be honored all the help that we can get. It's never too late.

00:44:41.345 --> 00:44:49.965
You can go to RodneyForCongress.org. That's R-O-D-N-E-Y-F-O-R-C-O-N-G-R-E-S-S.org.

00:44:50.345 --> 00:44:54.685
And you can see our website. You can see our videos when, you know,

00:44:54.945 --> 00:44:58.425
from all over the district, all 31 counties, including some videos from Mexico.

00:44:58.665 --> 00:45:02.845
When I visited the Border Patrol agents and asylum seekers down there,

00:45:02.985 --> 00:45:06.765
you can, you know, you can always donate. Of course, we've got our donate button

00:45:06.765 --> 00:45:10.505
there and you can always reach out to us via email at hello.

00:45:10.885 --> 00:45:15.325
That's H-E-L-L-O at Rodney for Congress dot O-R-G.

00:45:16.085 --> 00:45:20.585
Well, Brother Govins, I greatly appreciate you taking the time out of the campaign

00:45:20.585 --> 00:45:27.325
to talk to our listeners. And I wish you wish you much success on November the 5th.

00:45:27.405 --> 00:45:33.065
It sounds like to me that the state of Arkansas will will have a congressman

00:45:33.065 --> 00:45:38.545
that's really going to be looking out for them if if if if if they give you the chance.

00:45:38.885 --> 00:45:42.285
So I really I really wish you the best of luck on Election Day.

00:45:42.645 --> 00:45:47.265
I appreciate that, man. we uh we've got our we've got our hard work that we've

00:45:47.265 --> 00:45:48.585
done and we've got faith it just

00:45:49.025 --> 00:45:51.805
the season for change i cling to

00:45:51.805 --> 00:45:56.065
it it just feels it just has a different feeling around here in arkansas right

00:45:56.065 --> 00:46:00.725
now and we can't you know we look forward to continuing the work the work starts

00:46:00.725 --> 00:46:05.205
in two weeks it doesn't stop on election night it starts in two weeks so thank

00:46:05.205 --> 00:46:09.965
you so much for your time i appreciate you sir all right guys and we're going to catch y'all.

00:46:09.840 --> 00:46:28.880
Music.

00:46:30.165 --> 00:46:38.665
All right. And we are back. And so now it's time for my next guest, Miliana Vegas.

00:46:39.365 --> 00:46:45.825
Dr. Miliana Vegas has been highly recognized for her career working to inform

00:46:45.825 --> 00:46:49.425
education policy in the so-called global south.

00:46:49.425 --> 00:46:54.865
She has been a leading economist at the World Bank, Division Chief of Education

00:46:54.865 --> 00:47:00.345
at the Inter-American Bank, and co-director of the Center for Universal Education

00:47:00.345 --> 00:47:01.785
at the Brookings Institution.

00:47:02.505 --> 00:47:07.885
She is currently a professor of practice at the Harvard Graduate School of Education

00:47:07.885 --> 00:47:09.765
and lives in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

00:47:09.765 --> 00:47:14.865
Her new book, Let's Change the World, How to Work Within International Development

00:47:14.865 --> 00:47:21.465
Organizations to Make a Difference, was published by Roman and Littlefield in September of 2024.

00:47:22.005 --> 00:47:27.845
And so our discussion is going to be based off of this new book, Let's Change the World.

00:47:28.365 --> 00:47:32.305
Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest

00:47:32.305 --> 00:47:36.205
on this podcast, Dr. Emiliana Vegas.

00:47:36.400 --> 00:47:46.480
Music.

00:47:46.985 --> 00:47:52.305
All right. Dr. Emiliana Vegas. How are you doing, ma'am? You doing good?

00:47:53.105 --> 00:47:59.565
I'm doing great. Thank you. Well, I'm honored to have you on the podcast because

00:47:59.565 --> 00:48:02.245
you wrote this book about let's change the world.

00:48:02.245 --> 00:48:05.645
Right that that sounds optimistic

00:48:05.645 --> 00:48:09.725
you know so i

00:48:09.725 --> 00:48:14.305
wanted but there's a specific i guess so let me let me let me read the whole

00:48:14.305 --> 00:48:19.625
title it's called let's change the world how to work with international development

00:48:19.625 --> 00:48:25.425
organizations to make a difference so there's a specific strategy in you in

00:48:25.425 --> 00:48:29.185
how you feel that we can make this happen.

00:48:30.505 --> 00:48:34.345
So I usually start the interviews with a quote.

00:48:35.085 --> 00:48:40.165
So your quote is this, you can't connect the dots looking forward.

00:48:40.365 --> 00:48:42.745
You can only connect them looking backwards.

00:48:43.225 --> 00:48:47.845
So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future.

00:48:48.085 --> 00:48:50.245
You have to trust in something.

00:48:50.505 --> 00:48:54.425
Your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever.

00:48:54.765 --> 00:48:59.785
This approach has never let me down and it has made all the difference in my

00:48:59.785 --> 00:49:01.805
life. What does that quote mean to you?

00:49:02.718 --> 00:49:11.058
Yeah, I think for me, it means that I always had some idea of what I wanted to do in the future.

00:49:11.458 --> 00:49:16.698
And, you know, I knew I wanted to have a career that would have impact on people,

00:49:16.698 --> 00:49:20.838
but I didn't know exactly how to do it. I had no role models.

00:49:21.418 --> 00:49:26.578
I didn't even know a lot about what graduate programs were out there.

00:49:26.578 --> 00:49:33.038
This is, you know, I grew up in the 70s and 80s and prior before the Internet age.

00:49:33.198 --> 00:49:39.898
And so getting information about educational trajectories and job trajectories was really difficult.

00:49:39.918 --> 00:49:44.298
And it's still not super clear, but there's a lot more out there now.

00:49:45.098 --> 00:49:49.398
And so I started out in college thinking that the way I would make a difference

00:49:49.398 --> 00:49:50.798
was through journalism.

00:49:50.798 --> 00:49:55.498
So kind of like what you're doing through writing and reporting.

00:49:55.498 --> 00:50:00.658
And I studied that as an undergraduate and I enjoyed a lot my studies.

00:50:00.878 --> 00:50:04.958
But when I graduated, I felt like I wasn't prepared, that I knew a little bit

00:50:04.958 --> 00:50:06.798
about a lot of things, but I didn't have depth.

00:50:07.118 --> 00:50:11.638
And so I came to the U.S. right after college in my home country of Venezuela,

00:50:12.098 --> 00:50:14.618
and I did a master's in public policy.

00:50:14.978 --> 00:50:18.758
And to be honest, I actually thought I was going to be on political science

00:50:18.758 --> 00:50:21.978
because back then in Venezuela, public policy didn't exist.

00:50:22.538 --> 00:50:29.358
And I actually loved the idea and the theories and social science of economics

00:50:29.358 --> 00:50:32.138
and how it applies to policy decisions.

00:50:32.498 --> 00:50:37.738
And I wanted to work. By then, I was clear that my focus would be education policy.

00:50:38.158 --> 00:50:42.578
And so, you know, who knew that I, again, after my master's,

00:50:42.658 --> 00:50:47.518
would feel again that I was not quite where I wanted to be in terms of the research

00:50:47.518 --> 00:50:50.538
I wanted to do and the influence and impact I wanted to have.

00:50:50.898 --> 00:50:55.938
So I came to Harvard University to the Graduate School of Education and got

00:50:55.938 --> 00:50:58.718
a PhD in education and then went out.

00:50:58.878 --> 00:51:01.318
And my goal was to be in academia, frankly.

00:51:01.478 --> 00:51:08.078
So I got trained to be in writing for researchers and high quality research.

00:51:08.078 --> 00:51:12.318
But that training, even though I didn't end up doing that, really helped me

00:51:12.318 --> 00:51:17.258
get the opportunity that opened doors for me, which was to enter the World Bank,

00:51:17.458 --> 00:51:23.518
one of the largest international development organizations in their research team originally,

00:51:23.798 --> 00:51:28.958
in their Young Professionals Program, which is a program that recruits about

00:51:28.958 --> 00:51:34.978
30 to 40 professionals under 32 years of age from all over the world to start

00:51:34.978 --> 00:51:37.218
a career in the World Bank.

00:51:37.378 --> 00:51:40.598
And they mentor you and they give you a lot of opportunities for professional

00:51:40.598 --> 00:51:42.038
development and growth.

00:51:42.278 --> 00:51:47.318
And one of the things that the program entails is And so you have one year and

00:51:47.318 --> 00:51:49.258
one assignment, which is your first assignment.

00:51:49.498 --> 00:51:53.638
And then the second year is in a second assignment. So I strategically chose

00:51:53.638 --> 00:51:59.258
my first assignment in the research department, still convinced that I wanted a career in academia.

00:52:00.135 --> 00:52:06.155
And I really was not excited about work. And so I, again, I had to rotate.

00:52:06.435 --> 00:52:10.175
So I ended up going to the Middle East and North Africa regions education team.

00:52:10.375 --> 00:52:14.415
And that's where I found sort of the right place for me, the right fit,

00:52:14.595 --> 00:52:20.915
which was doing research, yes, but applied and directed to a decision maker.

00:52:20.915 --> 00:52:25.715
So in this case, governments and ministries of education and finance that borrow

00:52:25.715 --> 00:52:30.135
money from institutions like the World Bank to improve lots of things like education,

00:52:30.395 --> 00:52:32.495
health, transportation, roads.

00:52:32.755 --> 00:52:37.615
And so I was working in education and I found it super rewarding after having

00:52:37.615 --> 00:52:42.375
spent, six years getting a PhD to actually apply the skills to help countries,

00:52:42.635 --> 00:52:47.755
in this case in the Middle East, improve the opportunities for their children through schooling.

00:52:48.495 --> 00:52:52.675
I didn't know I would end up staying at the World Bank this long and then moving

00:52:52.675 --> 00:52:57.635
to other international development organizations and spending 20 years or so in that field.

00:52:57.935 --> 00:53:02.735
And now I'm back in academia. So who knew? But I didn't plan it this way.

00:53:02.875 --> 00:53:06.275
And I've loved every step of the way. And I think part of the reason I wrote

00:53:06.275 --> 00:53:11.415
the book is that previous books written by former officials of these institutions

00:53:11.415 --> 00:53:15.775
tend to be very critical, very skeptical of the impact you can have.

00:53:16.255 --> 00:53:21.295
And I agree with some of the you know, difficulties and challenges,

00:53:21.295 --> 00:53:25.695
and let's call it as it is, dysfunctionalities of large bureaucracies,

00:53:25.835 --> 00:53:30.315
especially when you have a combination of technical and political aims.

00:53:31.215 --> 00:53:37.875
But I also found that if you have the right approach and the right focus,

00:53:37.875 --> 00:53:43.335
you can really make a difference and you can have a very fulfilling career. That's fun.

00:53:43.695 --> 00:53:46.795
So that's been in my experience well one

00:53:46.795 --> 00:53:49.935
of your one of your skill sets obviously is clairvoyance because

00:53:49.935 --> 00:53:54.355
you you already answered my next question so so

00:53:54.355 --> 00:53:59.975
instead of asking why did you write the book let me ask it this way why did

00:53:59.975 --> 00:54:04.735
you choose the style that you wrote the book because a lot of times when people

00:54:04.735 --> 00:54:10.615
are trying to make an argument especially from an academic side or or practical side,

00:54:10.815 --> 00:54:12.615
it's it's more technical.

00:54:12.615 --> 00:54:15.595
It's like, OK, this is what this organization does.

00:54:15.935 --> 00:54:21.155
And this is how you can apply these skill sets and all this kind of stuff.

00:54:22.109 --> 00:54:25.549
But your book is it has the technical aspects in it,

00:54:25.729 --> 00:54:32.009
but it's more like it's it's a combination of a technical book and a biography

00:54:32.009 --> 00:54:37.869
and a and like one of them Tony Robbins kind of inspirational books.

00:54:38.009 --> 00:54:42.309
Right. It's like it's you give it. Why did you choose to write it that way?

00:54:42.409 --> 00:54:44.469
Was it more natural for you to do it that way?

00:54:44.629 --> 00:54:48.369
Or why did you choose to write the book the way you do? You know,

00:54:48.469 --> 00:54:49.729
it's a really great question.

00:54:50.089 --> 00:54:54.869
I think in the last, so I wrote the book, I finished writing the book about

00:54:54.869 --> 00:55:00.289
a year ago, but I had been back in at Harvard teaching now young people who

00:55:00.289 --> 00:55:03.529
were very interested in entering this field.

00:55:04.149 --> 00:55:08.729
And I had lots of meetings where they would ask me questions and I would have

00:55:08.729 --> 00:55:13.669
a hard time explaining facts without weaving in personal anecdotes because the

00:55:13.669 --> 00:55:15.589
anecdotes bring facts to life.

00:55:16.029 --> 00:55:21.249
And so when I started writing the book, it was more autobiographical than it ended up being.

00:55:22.069 --> 00:55:25.849
And along the way, I discovered, like, I'm not that interesting of a person.

00:55:26.009 --> 00:55:29.089
Like, I'm not a famous person. Who's going to want to read my biography?

00:55:29.769 --> 00:55:34.049
What people really want is to get information that's useful for them.

00:55:34.069 --> 00:55:36.289
And that's why I really wanted to write the book.

00:55:36.389 --> 00:55:39.549
So it helped me a lot to clarify, like, who am I writing this book for?

00:55:39.629 --> 00:55:45.649
Why am I writing it? And it was really to help people like my students and others

00:55:45.649 --> 00:55:48.869
who don't have the role models like I didn't,

00:55:49.029 --> 00:55:55.289
don't really know what these institutions do and how many of them are there

00:55:55.289 --> 00:55:58.989
and what kinds of work they do to help them.

00:55:59.369 --> 00:56:01.989
You know, as my students would say, some of my students have said,

00:56:02.069 --> 00:56:03.349
it's like the hidden curriculum.

00:56:03.629 --> 00:56:08.789
This has never been written before. And so it took me years to...

00:56:09.632 --> 00:56:14.432
Understand the ins and outs. And I was very fortunate to have started,

00:56:14.432 --> 00:56:18.592
you know, relatively young and then, you know, climbed the corporate ladder,

00:56:18.772 --> 00:56:21.292
moved to a different institution in a pretty senior position,

00:56:22.012 --> 00:56:26.192
experienced what it was like to beat a team and all the challenges that go and

00:56:26.192 --> 00:56:32.092
opportunities to have impact when you actually have more people to share your vision with.

00:56:32.972 --> 00:56:37.012
And, you know, then went back to like a think tank, to Brookings,

00:56:37.212 --> 00:56:39.812
and realized this is a different type of organization.

00:56:39.892 --> 00:56:46.032
It doesn't have the access to governments that the global funders do,

00:56:46.192 --> 00:56:48.232
like the World Bank and the Inter-American Development Bank.

00:56:48.772 --> 00:56:53.012
But it has the credibility of being an independent think tank.

00:56:53.272 --> 00:56:56.632
And so it's very interesting for me to see, like, each of these gives you a

00:56:56.632 --> 00:56:59.812
great platform if you're a person like me who wants to have impact.

00:57:00.292 --> 00:57:04.972
So does Harvard, you know, frankly. So I've been very consistent in my career,

00:57:04.992 --> 00:57:09.492
and this is one of my main messages to my audiences is that,

00:57:09.572 --> 00:57:14.512
look, you don't need to have clarity about every step of your career.

00:57:14.812 --> 00:57:17.592
Where you want to be clear is what you want to achieve.

00:57:17.952 --> 00:57:23.652
You know, when all is said and done, what did you want to dedicate your life professionally for?

00:57:24.052 --> 00:57:27.972
And for me, that was really improving educational opportunity in low and middle

00:57:27.972 --> 00:57:32.372
income countries, particularly in Latin American, the Caribbean, my region of origin.

00:57:33.092 --> 00:57:37.112
And so every time I found myself in a position where I could do that,

00:57:37.232 --> 00:57:40.772
I would stay, I would, you know, continue working really hard, try to advance.

00:57:41.012 --> 00:57:44.772
And when I found that it was getting limited, I would look for other options.

00:57:44.872 --> 00:57:50.752
And so here I am, you know, having had multiple different experiences,

00:57:50.752 --> 00:57:58.092
but always really doing this work of trying to bring more and better evidence

00:57:58.092 --> 00:58:01.592
to inform education policy in developing countries.

00:58:02.792 --> 00:58:08.272
So explain to the listeners, what is international development?

00:58:09.461 --> 00:58:17.841
International development is basically a field of influence and work whose primary

00:58:17.841 --> 00:58:22.121
mission is to improve the livelihoods and development,

00:58:22.581 --> 00:58:27.101
economic development, and reduce poverty in low- and middle-income countries.

00:58:27.101 --> 00:58:33.581
So it's a field that was essentially born after World War II when many countries

00:58:33.581 --> 00:58:35.741
in Europe were completely destroyed.

00:58:36.281 --> 00:58:41.061
That's when the World Bank, and particularly the part of the World Bank called

00:58:41.061 --> 00:58:43.841
the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development,

00:58:44.181 --> 00:58:48.481
was created alongside the United Nations, the International Monetary Fund,

00:58:48.641 --> 00:58:53.581
and a whole set of agencies to do a couple of things.

00:58:53.601 --> 00:58:59.801
One was to help alleviate the impact of the war and reconstruct and rebuild,

00:59:00.001 --> 00:59:02.421
but also to help prevent future wars.

00:59:02.421 --> 00:59:06.921
So to help recognize that we are shared humanity around the globe and we need

00:59:06.921 --> 00:59:12.561
to find ways to live in peace and to, you know, share the prosperity.

00:59:12.921 --> 00:59:17.001
So the more advanced economies, rich countries like the U.S.

00:59:17.001 --> 00:59:20.761
And some of the European countries and some of the Asian countries contribute

00:59:20.761 --> 00:59:26.661
more resources to this institutional environment than do the poorer countries.

00:59:26.661 --> 00:59:31.401
Although the poorer countries also put in some resources to get access to the

00:59:31.401 --> 00:59:34.301
then financing and to get a seat at the table.

00:59:34.801 --> 00:59:42.081
So in the book, you talk about there's five main types of international development organizations.

00:59:44.641 --> 00:59:53.461
Elaborate on those and then kind of talk about which one that you have put your energy into. Sure.

00:59:53.861 --> 00:59:59.741
So the five broad types, and I say they're broad because I classified them by

00:59:59.741 --> 01:00:06.301
their main or primary mission or mandate, but they often do more than just that one mandate.

01:00:06.301 --> 01:00:10.521
So the first would be these global funders like the World Bank,

01:00:10.861 --> 01:00:14.321
the International Monetary Fund, the Inter-American Development Bank.

01:00:14.461 --> 01:00:17.221
There's an Asian Development Bank, an African Development Bank.

01:00:17.301 --> 01:00:22.561
So they're regional and international institutions, as well as bilateral, like the U.S.

01:00:22.941 --> 01:00:25.301
Agency for International Development would be in that category.

01:00:25.601 --> 01:00:27.781
And they are institutions that are...

01:00:28.762 --> 01:00:33.962
Whose primary mandate is to provide financial resources through loans and grants

01:00:33.962 --> 01:00:35.962
to low- and middle-income countries.

01:00:36.162 --> 01:00:42.202
But alongside that, they also provide technical assistance to inform those loans and grants, right?

01:00:42.702 --> 01:00:48.762
Second big type of international development organization is what I call advisors.

01:00:49.202 --> 01:00:53.942
So this would be a group, think tanks, non-governmental organizations.

01:00:54.962 --> 01:00:59.942
Research institutions that advise governments, and also for-profit consulting

01:00:59.942 --> 01:01:03.142
firms like the Big McKinsey's, Bain, etc.

01:01:03.682 --> 01:01:08.682
They also work to provide advice to governments directly, but also to international

01:01:08.682 --> 01:01:09.962
development organizations.

01:01:10.402 --> 01:01:16.882
The third is what I call conveners. So the main group of that or the main agency

01:01:16.882 --> 01:01:18.922
in that field would be the United Nations.

01:01:19.222 --> 01:01:23.402
And these are organizations whose primary mandate is really to bring together

01:01:23.402 --> 01:01:27.222
all the countries and governments and have them set agendas,

01:01:27.402 --> 01:01:31.322
share agendas, agree, make agreements on how to move forward as a collective.

01:01:31.982 --> 01:01:38.122
The fourth group is what I call implementers. And so these are organizations

01:01:38.122 --> 01:01:42.482
that actually have, you know, boots on the ground.

01:01:42.562 --> 01:01:48.242
So they are like UNICEF in education, Save the Children, organizations that are present.

01:01:48.522 --> 01:01:52.062
The World Food Program would be one there that are the first respondents,

01:01:52.262 --> 01:01:55.922
but also are permanently with teams in their countries.

01:01:56.302 --> 01:02:02.562
And so I said funder. And then finally, and importantly, more recently are the private philanthropy.

01:02:02.882 --> 01:02:07.582
So like the Gates Foundation, there's a Swiss Foundation that I'm part of their

01:02:07.582 --> 01:02:13.222
board, Jacobs, that does exclusively philanthropy in education all over the world.

01:02:13.382 --> 01:02:17.762
And so these institutions increasingly are playing a role, not just.

01:02:18.462 --> 01:02:21.962
Although they're very generous with their funding, but they also are very important

01:02:21.962 --> 01:02:25.182
in moving the agenda in certain directions.

01:02:26.656 --> 01:02:31.876
So I spent most of my career, yeah, just remember the second part of your question.

01:02:32.296 --> 01:02:38.516
I spent, I would say, the bulk of my career, 80% of it in global funders,

01:02:38.836 --> 01:02:40.636
the World Bank, the Inter-American Development Bank.

01:02:40.876 --> 01:02:46.316
But I also worked for about 10% of my career thus far, let's say,

01:02:46.816 --> 01:02:49.436
in the advisors and conveners.

01:02:49.656 --> 01:02:54.716
So I would say think tanks. I grew up Brookings, even though it is a think tank.

01:02:54.896 --> 01:02:56.736
It's also a big convening organization.

01:02:56.936 --> 01:03:01.076
A lot of what it does is hold events, bring together said agenda.

01:03:01.636 --> 01:03:05.956
And then now I'm in academia, so I kind of have done the spectrum.

01:03:06.756 --> 01:03:11.816
I have not, however, been in the implementer category.

01:03:11.816 --> 01:03:15.196
And I have a lot of respect for those

01:03:15.196 --> 01:03:18.456
international development officers and officials who

01:03:18.456 --> 01:03:21.936
work in on the ground trying to deliver programs you

01:03:21.936 --> 01:03:25.056
know hand in hand with governments and civil

01:03:25.056 --> 01:03:31.636
society organizations i think a lot of the policies and programs even what well-designed

01:03:31.636 --> 01:03:35.876
ones you know the proof is when they get implemented and often they don't get

01:03:35.876 --> 01:03:40.696
implemented as well as we would want yeah that's that's the boots on the ground

01:03:40.696 --> 01:03:42.616
is always kind of the hardest one.

01:03:44.576 --> 01:03:48.856
So from your experience which part

01:03:48.856 --> 01:03:52.956
of the world is the toughest which one

01:03:52.956 --> 01:03:55.696
will challenge your concept oh i can change the

01:03:55.696 --> 01:03:59.096
world and then you get there and it's like i don't know i don't

01:03:59.096 --> 01:04:04.096
know if i can really pull this off which part of the world presents the most

01:04:04.096 --> 01:04:09.436
challenges and and why do you think that is i would like to reframe your questions

01:04:09.436 --> 01:04:13.456
because i don't want to like blame a region because I think a lot of it has

01:04:13.456 --> 01:04:18.956
to do with historical factors and how, you know,

01:04:19.896 --> 01:04:22.716
such a countries were colonized and how they got independent.

01:04:23.876 --> 01:04:28.316
But I would say some of them, so there are two things that I found particularly

01:04:28.316 --> 01:04:30.296
hard in my own experience.

01:04:30.496 --> 01:04:37.096
One was when countries with very limited resources had a combination of,

01:04:38.189 --> 01:04:44.029
Let's say governments that were really not committed to improving the likelihoods

01:04:44.029 --> 01:04:49.889
of their own people were more interested in power and wealth for a few, let's say.

01:04:50.389 --> 01:04:57.629
And so that's a problem across many regions, including some advanced economies, sadly.

01:04:57.849 --> 01:05:03.469
But it's more, let's say, the weakness of institutions makes it more prevalent

01:05:03.469 --> 01:05:06.569
in low and middle income countries.

01:05:06.569 --> 01:05:13.509
And it creates a source of discontinuity in policies, challenges for really

01:05:13.509 --> 01:05:15.809
doing the right thing over time.

01:05:16.089 --> 01:05:19.569
I mean, you might get a leader once in a while that does want to do the right thing.

01:05:19.689 --> 01:05:23.989
But as soon as the elections happen or whatever, maybe not even an election

01:05:23.989 --> 01:05:27.389
or a military coup, everything's overturned.

01:05:27.569 --> 01:05:32.249
And the next, you know, regime is doing something completely different.

01:05:32.249 --> 01:05:36.169
And so that makes it really hard as an international development organization,

01:05:36.169 --> 01:05:40.949
because your mandate is to stay always there and help.

01:05:41.169 --> 01:05:45.889
But sometimes you kind of know that. I mean, early on and when I was before

01:05:45.889 --> 01:05:49.789
I even came to Harvard, right after my master's, when I did some missions to

01:05:49.789 --> 01:05:55.709
some with USAID projects to some sub-Saharan African countries.

01:05:55.709 --> 01:06:00.649
And I could see that the projects were ill, were not well designed to begin

01:06:00.649 --> 01:06:06.409
with. you know, things like delivering equipment without considering the changes

01:06:06.409 --> 01:06:07.969
in the voltage in a country.

01:06:08.149 --> 01:06:11.509
And so nothing would work. I mean, just really like poor design,

01:06:11.509 --> 01:06:15.269
but then also the implementation capacity was weak.

01:06:15.389 --> 01:06:20.249
And so I think those are really the hardest because I think with anything else you can work.

01:06:20.389 --> 01:06:23.749
You can work with like low resources, but committed individuals.

01:06:23.749 --> 01:06:26.149
You can work with, you know.

01:06:27.575 --> 01:06:32.095
Everything else. Like, I think it's when you find that, I think what most depressed

01:06:32.095 --> 01:06:33.715
me is when I saw two things.

01:06:34.035 --> 01:06:41.175
One was a belief, a mindset that you fundamentally cannot make things better.

01:06:41.315 --> 01:06:44.675
And that sometimes some government officials have that and some teachers,

01:06:44.715 --> 01:06:46.235
you know, in my field is education.

01:06:46.455 --> 01:06:53.075
So I'll say I've visited schools that we were supporting in very poor areas of certain countries.

01:06:53.435 --> 01:06:57.815
And after probing teachers as to why students weren't learning,

01:06:57.835 --> 01:07:01.355
the key answer was, you know, don't you see where they come from?

01:07:01.475 --> 01:07:02.695
Do you think these children can learn?

01:07:02.875 --> 01:07:08.175
And it was very frustrating and devastating, to be honest.

01:07:08.375 --> 01:07:12.755
And so I think, and yet I've seen countries at the same time,

01:07:12.875 --> 01:07:17.375
even the same country at times with very committed individuals doing amazing

01:07:17.375 --> 01:07:21.235
things, same resource environment. So it's all about people in the end.

01:07:21.335 --> 01:07:25.675
And I think That's also, I guess, a message in my book that you can focus on

01:07:25.675 --> 01:07:29.335
a lot of people in international development organizations who are just like

01:07:29.335 --> 01:07:30.675
development bureaucrats.

01:07:30.835 --> 01:07:34.275
That's kind of the, you know, they're just there to get paid,

01:07:34.515 --> 01:07:37.215
maybe to travel, get some of the perks of the job.

01:07:37.475 --> 01:07:39.655
They're not really committed to making a difference.

01:07:40.635 --> 01:07:43.535
And, you know, that's true of everything.

01:07:43.535 --> 01:07:50.255
I think the majority of us who go into this field have a real passion for it.

01:07:50.255 --> 01:07:54.315
I think sometimes over time you get discouraged by things that you see,

01:07:54.515 --> 01:07:58.655
like what I was describing, or by some of the own limitations that bureaucracies

01:07:58.655 --> 01:08:02.515
impose on you, because there's a lot of red tape that you have to go through.

01:08:02.735 --> 01:08:07.975
I mean, that's just what it is. But I always found ways to keep my,

01:08:08.235 --> 01:08:14.155
you know, focus on what I could do from my point in the bureaucracy to make

01:08:14.155 --> 01:08:17.995
a difference, whether it was directly with the country, whether it was with

01:08:17.995 --> 01:08:20.135
more junior people to help them along.

01:08:21.555 --> 01:08:22.475
Always trying to.

01:08:23.398 --> 01:08:28.238
You know, really, I am convinced, and as a teacher now, I see it every day,

01:08:28.438 --> 01:08:33.778
that you can be the best prepared teacher, but if you're not, if you don't care,

01:08:34.158 --> 01:08:36.738
you may be the most knowledgeable in your field, but if you don't care about

01:08:36.738 --> 01:08:40.438
what students learn and their own experiences and what they bring to the classroom,

01:08:40.698 --> 01:08:43.498
they're not going to listen to you and they're not going to get much out of you.

01:08:43.678 --> 01:08:49.298
And so, you know, sometimes when I started in this field, I felt very like imposter

01:08:49.298 --> 01:08:52.498
syndrome, like me, a professor at Harvard, like really?

01:08:53.398 --> 01:08:57.718
It's kind of a dream come true. And, you know, there are so many outstanding

01:08:57.718 --> 01:09:01.398
real experts at Harvard, of course, that it's intimidating.

01:09:01.878 --> 01:09:06.038
But I realized that my secret weapon is that I really care about people.

01:09:06.038 --> 01:09:09.838
I care about my students. I prepare like no one probably or like,

01:09:10.158 --> 01:09:13.198
you know, many of them do, especially at the ed school, prepare very well.

01:09:13.418 --> 01:09:18.938
But I certainly follow up in a way. I meet with the students. I make time for them.

01:09:19.058 --> 01:09:24.958
And I think that is my secret weapon. Yeah, I interviewed a friend of mine who's

01:09:24.958 --> 01:09:27.738
a political science professor at Ole Miss,

01:09:27.978 --> 01:09:35.758
and he basically said that he looks forward to every year because it's the students

01:09:35.758 --> 01:09:38.238
that give him the energy.

01:09:38.238 --> 01:09:42.238
And that's how he can deal with whatever is on the syllabus.

01:09:42.578 --> 01:09:47.898
He can cater it to basically the students coming in and getting their feedback

01:09:47.898 --> 01:09:52.838
and just to just to have the satisfaction of empowering them.

01:09:53.198 --> 01:09:58.858
Even if, you know, they don't agree with everything you might be saying or what

01:09:58.858 --> 01:10:04.438
your political philosophy is just to empower them to be able to articulate their

01:10:04.438 --> 01:10:07.898
own beliefs. He says that that gives them incredible gratification.

01:10:08.238 --> 01:10:14.498
So I assume that's the same with you as far as being able to to empower young

01:10:14.498 --> 01:10:17.918
people if they pursue this kind of work.

01:10:19.078 --> 01:10:26.118
Or I was really touched by the story when you talk to your advisor at Duke and

01:10:26.118 --> 01:10:30.318
you were telling the advisor, yeah, I think they made a mistake and let me in here.

01:10:30.498 --> 01:10:35.158
And that advisor reassured you is like, no, no, they they don't make mistakes like that.

01:10:35.158 --> 01:10:41.038
If you got in, you can make it. and you've been able to translate that to your students.

01:10:41.038 --> 01:10:46.418
I think that's powerful and I think that's why educators should always be held

01:10:46.418 --> 01:10:51.038
in a high regard because of the commitment that you, the good ones that are

01:10:51.038 --> 01:10:52.718
committed to what you do.

01:10:52.898 --> 01:10:59.818
And I can imagine in the original frame of the question, when you go to other

01:10:59.818 --> 01:11:03.078
countries and you see there are people that are not as committed.

01:11:04.467 --> 01:11:09.587
I know that can be, you've stated it as personally frustrating to you, so I get it.

01:11:10.027 --> 01:11:14.267
Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's the hardest because when people

01:11:14.267 --> 01:11:18.647
are not as skilled, you can help bring them along if they're committed.

01:11:18.927 --> 01:11:24.727
You know, when they believe their work can make a difference,

01:11:25.107 --> 01:11:29.327
then, you know, you can help them do better work because they're interested

01:11:29.327 --> 01:11:34.107
in doing it and they might just lack the capacity or the training or the resources.

01:11:34.467 --> 01:11:38.707
And so the amazing thing about international development is that you're in a

01:11:38.707 --> 01:11:42.707
position to build capacity, to provide financial resources,

01:11:42.987 --> 01:11:48.747
to to help expand people's horizons, because you're you sit in a place where

01:11:48.747 --> 01:11:50.387
people are working all over the world.

01:11:50.627 --> 01:11:56.067
So you're even at lunch, you're talking to someone who's been just in India

01:11:56.067 --> 01:11:59.927
and they face a similar challenge to, you know, where I was working in Brazil.

01:11:59.927 --> 01:12:04.907
And all of a sudden I'm like, okay, can I bring your Indian team to Brazil or

01:12:04.907 --> 01:12:06.747
can I bring the Brazilians to India?

01:12:07.007 --> 01:12:13.207
And those kinds of South learning exchanges, you can facilitate and broker and

01:12:13.207 --> 01:12:14.667
that's just such a privilege.

01:12:14.947 --> 01:12:19.947
So yeah, like I say, if you care, you can do amazing things.

01:12:20.247 --> 01:12:26.727
And these organizations are not perfect, but they are great platforms for people

01:12:26.727 --> 01:12:27.767
who want to change the world.

01:12:27.767 --> 01:12:38.127
So quickly explain the project cycle and why is it an important concept in development?

01:12:38.807 --> 01:12:42.127
So, wow, you're going really deep.

01:12:42.407 --> 01:12:46.967
So the project cycle is how,

01:12:47.347 --> 01:12:51.467
by kind of the bureaucratic rules and the agreements these governments have

01:12:51.467 --> 01:12:58.687
made, you get from an idea and a first conversation with a government of how you might support them.

01:12:58.827 --> 01:13:03.247
And then what's in the end, really a legal agreement that will allow the flow

01:13:03.247 --> 01:13:06.287
of funds and a project to actually happen, right?

01:13:06.887 --> 01:13:10.327
So the first thing is what we call identification.

01:13:10.887 --> 01:13:16.107
So this is where, you know, the government might have written your institution

01:13:16.107 --> 01:13:18.807
and said, hey, can we get a mission, they call it.

01:13:19.027 --> 01:13:23.887
So basically a team of experts come because we want your help in improving,

01:13:24.187 --> 01:13:27.947
I'm just going to say something, primary schooling. And so...

01:13:29.088 --> 01:13:34.228
It might take one or two missions to go down and sort of see what are the problems.

01:13:34.488 --> 01:13:39.668
You do, you know, a sector analysis, meaning you look at what is happening in

01:13:39.668 --> 01:13:43.208
primary education, how many kids are accessing it, what are they learning,

01:13:43.248 --> 01:13:48.708
what are teachers doing, what are the main constraints for them to achieve,

01:13:48.948 --> 01:13:51.528
let's say, high-quality primary schooling for all.

01:13:51.828 --> 01:13:55.528
And there might be things that, you know, they don't have enough teachers or

01:13:55.528 --> 01:13:57.408
they don't have good teacher training programs.

01:13:57.408 --> 01:14:02.548
So in identification, you come up and you go back to with the government sort

01:14:02.548 --> 01:14:07.528
of interactions, but internally, you prepare a project concept note.

01:14:07.688 --> 01:14:12.248
And that project concept note gets reviewed internally. And at that moment,

01:14:12.308 --> 01:14:17.908
you have a broad sense of how much money it will require and what will be some

01:14:17.908 --> 01:14:20.748
of the main areas of collaboration.

01:14:21.288 --> 01:14:26.808
But you don't have all the, you know, I's dotted and the T's crossed,

01:14:27.028 --> 01:14:31.628
right? Maybe you have a very basic, like, you know, the skeleton.

01:14:32.128 --> 01:14:35.708
Then you go back and you're going back in a preparation state.

01:14:35.868 --> 01:14:39.988
And this is when you're really working much more closely with the government

01:14:39.988 --> 01:14:44.928
and many experts that say that one of the constraints in the country is they

01:14:44.928 --> 01:14:48.268
don't have enough schools, physical buildings to house the students.

01:14:48.768 --> 01:14:53.128
So, you know, I have a doctorate in economics of education. I know nothing about

01:14:53.128 --> 01:14:57.108
infrastructure. So I might bring an engineer or an architect in my team and,

01:14:57.108 --> 01:15:02.188
you know, might hire a consultant or might find one within the bank to come with me and help me.

01:15:03.126 --> 01:15:07.566
Prepare what would be an infrastructure component and put some numbers to it

01:15:07.566 --> 01:15:10.426
and say, where are the needs? What part of the country?

01:15:10.866 --> 01:15:14.546
How are we, you know, how are the procurement processes going to work so that

01:15:14.546 --> 01:15:18.946
you are transparent and fair in how you allocate these public resources, etc.

01:15:19.706 --> 01:15:24.966
Again, you come back and this all can take, you know, between identification

01:15:24.966 --> 01:15:29.866
and preparation around nine months or so, at least, hopefully less,

01:15:30.026 --> 01:15:33.866
but governments always criticize the banks for being slow.

01:15:34.126 --> 01:15:37.246
But it takes a long time because you want to be very meticulous.

01:15:37.446 --> 01:15:42.986
And you also do some economic analysis of whether the investment that the government

01:15:42.986 --> 01:15:47.666
is requesting and the way you're designing it will actually be beneficial for the government,

01:15:47.846 --> 01:15:50.666
whether it will have positive and high economic returns.

01:15:50.926 --> 01:15:55.326
And so it takes a lot of work and a lot of analysis, a lot of conversations

01:15:55.326 --> 01:16:00.386
with the government, a lot of negotiations also, because sometimes they want one thing.

01:16:00.526 --> 01:16:04.246
And as an expert and as a technical person, you might think,

01:16:04.366 --> 01:16:08.226
okay, that's fine. You want to build schools, great. But that's not enough to achieve learning.

01:16:08.406 --> 01:16:11.766
We know that. So we need to train teachers. We need to think about the curriculum.

01:16:11.946 --> 01:16:14.286
We need to think about the daily experience of students at schools.

01:16:14.326 --> 01:16:16.406
And maybe they don't want to borrow money for that.

01:16:16.526 --> 01:16:20.886
But we know that if they just do business as usual in new buildings, it won't work.

01:16:21.566 --> 01:16:27.946
And so come back. Now we write the project document, no longer the concept note.

01:16:28.146 --> 01:16:32.346
It's now much more detailed. What is the project going to do?

01:16:32.506 --> 01:16:36.346
How much money the bank is going to lend? How much the government is going to

01:16:36.346 --> 01:16:38.286
also dedicate to the project?

01:16:38.466 --> 01:16:41.146
Every project costs, let's say, a certain amount.

01:16:41.346 --> 01:16:45.266
And there's a proportion of that as financed by the external funder,

01:16:45.446 --> 01:16:50.846
but there's a proportion that the government itself funds. And then after that,

01:16:50.966 --> 01:16:54.426
it's really a matter of getting approval from the.

01:16:55.252 --> 01:16:58.932
The governing board. So once you get the internal management approval,

01:16:59.292 --> 01:17:04.812
you get feedback, you revise the document, you go back to the government and

01:17:04.812 --> 01:17:08.352
say, you know, management said yes to this, or we need to change that. Do you agree?

01:17:08.532 --> 01:17:12.672
You negotiate a final kind of project document. And with that,

01:17:12.752 --> 01:17:16.032
you go to the board of the bank, the board of directors.

01:17:16.472 --> 01:17:19.632
These are the representatives of all the member countries.

01:17:19.872 --> 01:17:23.432
And I talk about how intimidating it might be the first time you sit at that

01:17:23.432 --> 01:17:26.312
table because you have your, you know, senior management,

01:17:26.552 --> 01:17:29.712
literally the president and vice president in one end of the table and then

01:17:29.712 --> 01:17:36.112
all these directors and their advisors sitting around the table and they can

01:17:36.112 --> 01:17:41.632
really ask a lot of questions and you are never prepared enough to all the random

01:17:41.632 --> 01:17:43.352
questions they might ask because in the end,

01:17:43.812 --> 01:17:46.112
you know, some of them know a lot about your sector and your country.

01:17:46.212 --> 01:17:49.392
Some of them know nothing and they still feel like they have to ask questions.

01:17:49.452 --> 01:17:52.872
I don't know. I still don't understand why they all felt like they were compelled to say something.

01:17:53.892 --> 01:17:58.992
And yeah, so after that, you're kind of, most cases, you get the approval to

01:17:58.992 --> 01:18:02.992
go ahead, and then you go to sort of work with the lawyers at that point,

01:18:03.012 --> 01:18:05.352
if not before, to draft the contract.

01:18:05.572 --> 01:18:09.932
And then that gets signed by usually the Ministry of Finance and some representative

01:18:09.932 --> 01:18:13.472
from the bank. And then you can start implementing, which is great.

01:18:13.672 --> 01:18:17.292
The bank doesn't implement, so the international funders don't implement.

01:18:17.472 --> 01:18:23.472
That's the government's role. But our role as partners in this is to support

01:18:23.472 --> 01:18:25.612
implementation and also to ensure,

01:18:25.952 --> 01:18:30.672
and this is why it's called supervision and support, the supervisory part is

01:18:30.672 --> 01:18:36.992
to have some controls over the resources and to make sure that what has been

01:18:36.992 --> 01:18:40.512
agreed is binding and so that the government cannot,

01:18:40.732 --> 01:18:45.232
for example, use the loans, the project funding to do something else, you know.

01:18:45.232 --> 01:18:48.632
So, and that implementation usually takes around.

01:18:49.524 --> 01:18:54.064
You know, four to five years, depending on the complexity of the program and

01:18:54.064 --> 01:18:55.204
the capacity of the government.

01:18:55.444 --> 01:19:00.884
And then at the end, you do an evaluation, an internal, like the team itself,

01:19:00.964 --> 01:19:03.964
like narrates and does a project completion report.

01:19:04.804 --> 01:19:09.804
Learning, you know, trying to describe what happened, but also draw some lessons

01:19:09.804 --> 01:19:13.604
that will be useful in future, similar projects of the institution.

01:19:13.784 --> 01:19:17.004
So if something went wrong, you want to be analytical about what went wrong,

01:19:17.004 --> 01:19:20.444
always something goes wrong. Nothing works in five years as you plan.

01:19:20.604 --> 01:19:21.644
So that's part of the process.

01:19:21.824 --> 01:19:26.204
And I think the institutions recognize that, you know, and ideally,

01:19:26.684 --> 01:19:30.444
and this is something that I wish we did more of is we don't wait until the

01:19:30.444 --> 01:19:34.064
end to actually evaluate what might have gone far, but we evaluate along the

01:19:34.064 --> 01:19:35.864
way as well to course correct.

01:19:36.524 --> 01:19:41.584
And then after that, you've closed your project cycle as a team leader, let's say.

01:19:42.304 --> 01:19:47.204
But then there, all of these institutions have what is called an independent

01:19:47.204 --> 01:19:51.444
evaluation agency, and they report directly to the board of directors.

01:19:51.444 --> 01:19:57.224
And they are also doing an exposed sort of detailed evaluation of a sample of

01:19:57.224 --> 01:20:03.624
projects to try and draw lessons that the institution can take for future operations.

01:20:03.844 --> 01:20:08.664
I mean, that's one of the nice things, I think, you know, really interesting

01:20:08.664 --> 01:20:12.864
things is that you're always trying to do the best you can, recognizing that

01:20:12.864 --> 01:20:14.824
it's a very complex world out there,

01:20:15.084 --> 01:20:19.984
that the challenges are enormous, and that you're often not going to get it perfectly right.

01:20:20.244 --> 01:20:25.444
And so learning from how things are going and what you could have done better

01:20:25.444 --> 01:20:27.244
is always important for the next round.

01:20:28.297 --> 01:20:33.817
Yeah, so the method to my madness in asking that question is I want the listeners

01:20:33.817 --> 01:20:39.797
to understand that, you know, a lot of times in America, when we want something

01:20:39.797 --> 01:20:42.597
done, we ask our government to do this.

01:20:42.757 --> 01:20:49.357
And, you know, we have our own form, I guess, internally when people write grants

01:20:49.357 --> 01:20:57.657
to government agencies or nonprofit foundations, you know, to implement programs throughout.

01:20:58.357 --> 01:21:02.717
People want, but in America, people want instant gratification,

01:21:02.877 --> 01:21:06.177
right? And I assume that's a human trait worldwide.

01:21:06.857 --> 01:21:12.757
So, you know, I wanted you to go through the steps because when I was reading it, I was like,

01:21:13.357 --> 01:21:17.977
all right, so best case scenario, once you initiate a project,

01:21:17.977 --> 01:21:25.437
you really won't know, or you really won't see any tangible results for almost like a decade.

01:21:25.917 --> 01:21:30.657
And so, you know, So when when people when when you decide that you're going

01:21:30.657 --> 01:21:36.177
to tackle a problem, it needs to be understood that this is a commitment for a long time.

01:21:36.337 --> 01:21:40.497
This is not like a quick fix kind of situation that you've got to go through

01:21:40.497 --> 01:21:43.517
all these steps to make sure you do it right now.

01:21:43.517 --> 01:21:48.417
If you if you do what you want to do and are able to course correct,

01:21:48.417 --> 01:21:55.297
that might narrow the time window and it might achieve greater results, positive results.

01:21:56.057 --> 01:22:01.557
But I just wanted listeners to understand that when you identify a problem,

01:22:01.557 --> 01:22:06.897
you can't get it fixed like the next day because it wasn't it didn't take just

01:22:06.897 --> 01:22:09.417
one day for the problem to be created. Number one.

01:22:09.717 --> 01:22:12.997
But if you put the right resource and right commitment in there,

01:22:13.477 --> 01:22:20.237
you know, best case scenarios, you know, a generation before you actually see some improvement.

01:22:20.717 --> 01:22:27.737
So I appreciate you with that exercise. All right, so let's close this out.

01:22:29.026 --> 01:22:34.806
Can I say something about that before you close it up? I found it really interesting

01:22:34.806 --> 01:22:41.666
because, you know, there's two risks to kind of investing in the right things

01:22:41.666 --> 01:22:43.086
over time that you need to do.

01:22:43.266 --> 01:22:47.966
One has to do with the impatience of people. The other thing has to do with political cycles.

01:22:48.206 --> 01:22:52.826
So governments also want to see results that will influence, you know, voters.

01:22:53.186 --> 01:22:59.166
And so they're also impatient. And I worked a lot in South America and Chile,

01:22:59.186 --> 01:23:01.606
and it's an upper middle income country.

01:23:01.806 --> 01:23:06.266
It's recently joined the OECD, the group of rich countries in the world.

01:23:06.666 --> 01:23:10.446
And often when they borrowed from the World Bank or the IDB,

01:23:10.766 --> 01:23:15.406
the reason they did it was that their political cycles are four years.

01:23:15.566 --> 01:23:21.866
So by the time the project starts implementing, they are in an election.

01:23:21.866 --> 01:23:24.906
And they would want to have that continuity. And so at times,

01:23:25.046 --> 01:23:28.906
the International Development Organization actually is a resource to provide

01:23:28.906 --> 01:23:35.006
continuity across different, let's say, political governments or political administrations.

01:23:35.166 --> 01:23:39.386
And that's also a role that I actually don't mention as much in the book,

01:23:39.446 --> 01:23:42.086
but that's an important role that we play. We give that continuity.

01:23:42.746 --> 01:23:47.986
Yeah, yeah. And that's important. And like like I said, it's that that impatience

01:23:47.986 --> 01:23:49.746
and that political expediency.

01:23:49.946 --> 01:23:53.806
That's that's not just an American concept. That's a human concept worldwide.

01:23:55.322 --> 01:24:02.962
So closing out, what advice would you give young people that want to get into this work?

01:24:03.402 --> 01:24:08.462
And what kind of strategy?

01:24:08.922 --> 01:24:14.462
If somebody says, I want to do what Dr. Vegas does, she's an inspiration to

01:24:14.462 --> 01:24:15.482
me. I want to get out there.

01:24:15.622 --> 01:24:19.262
What would you tell that young person?

01:24:19.802 --> 01:24:25.262
I would say work hard on your analytical skills. I think a lot of the work,

01:24:25.382 --> 01:24:29.522
as I described, is really understanding difficult problems, documenting them

01:24:29.522 --> 01:24:33.762
well, and analyzing alternatives in a systematic way.

01:24:33.922 --> 01:24:37.622
So a lot of what economists do, but not only economists.

01:24:38.342 --> 01:24:41.602
Political scientists, sociologists, sort of social scientists,

01:24:41.902 --> 01:24:48.382
is really apply, you know, techniques and methods and theories to try and predict

01:24:48.382 --> 01:24:51.342
outcomes based on different alternatives.

01:24:51.342 --> 01:24:55.402
And so as a decision maker, a government official, you know,

01:24:55.542 --> 01:25:00.962
the best type of staff you can have is someone who can have done that homework for you.

01:25:01.102 --> 01:25:03.882
And that's the same thing you do in international development organizations

01:25:03.882 --> 01:25:08.702
is you kind of like tell a government, look, I know I've analyzed your problems.

01:25:08.702 --> 01:25:12.882
I see where the key constraints to your making progress in this area.

01:25:13.022 --> 01:25:17.342
I studied the world. You know, I've looked at countries that face similar problems

01:25:17.342 --> 01:25:22.422
or face them in the past, looked at the evidence, and this is my recommendation.

01:25:22.802 --> 01:25:26.842
And so, but you do it in a rigorous and compelling way. So that's one thing.

01:25:27.302 --> 01:25:33.522
The second thing is, you know, do a lot of communicating, communicating for

01:25:33.522 --> 01:25:35.942
policy audiences, for decision makers.

01:25:35.942 --> 01:25:40.362
It's very different when you're like in a liberal arts degree and you're writing

01:25:40.362 --> 01:25:47.722
papers for school that are very nicely written and narrative style and with fancy words.

01:25:47.882 --> 01:25:51.062
That gets you inane maybe in college. But when you go to the real world,

01:25:51.222 --> 01:25:55.482
at least in the policy cycle, you don't want fancy words that nobody understands.

01:25:55.482 --> 01:25:57.242
You don't want to use technical jargon.

01:25:57.342 --> 01:26:01.822
You want to be very direct, very clear, have the decision maker,

01:26:01.822 --> 01:26:05.682
who oftentimes is not a technical expert. Most often they're politicians.

01:26:06.482 --> 01:26:10.242
Understand the substance of your work. And so really, that's a different way

01:26:10.242 --> 01:26:15.922
of communicating if you want to have effect and change people's minds.

01:26:16.482 --> 01:26:20.882
And then the third thing is really, if you can, have some experience abroad,

01:26:21.042 --> 01:26:21.982
learn a different language.

01:26:22.322 --> 01:26:26.462
A lot of the things I think helped me was that I was a native Spanish speaker.

01:26:26.742 --> 01:26:32.862
I was fluent in English and studied in the US, but I also had been curious and I had learned French.

01:26:33.022 --> 01:26:38.082
And so that ability of knowing three of the languages that are most common in

01:26:38.082 --> 01:26:40.722
the work of international development organizations.

01:26:40.722 --> 01:26:44.182
They're not the only ones, of course, but they're ones that allow you to work

01:26:44.182 --> 01:26:48.522
across most of Sub-Saharan Africa, East Asia, South Asia, and Latin America.

01:26:48.722 --> 01:26:51.202
So that's pretty good.

01:26:51.502 --> 01:26:54.762
And yeah, I think those are them. And then finally, you know.

01:26:55.592 --> 01:27:00.412
Try to find people who are working now in the field, connect with them, try to learn from them.

01:27:00.512 --> 01:27:04.512
There's lots of opportunities, especially for college and graduate students

01:27:04.512 --> 01:27:09.032
for internships in the summer and in the winter and all of these organizations.

01:27:09.372 --> 01:27:12.312
And then there's a lot of openings for consultants. You know,

01:27:12.532 --> 01:27:15.372
I just got one from a former colleague at the World Bank.

01:27:15.572 --> 01:27:19.652
They want someone to help in a foundational literacy and numeracy program.

01:27:19.832 --> 01:27:22.592
And that entails research, but also program design.

01:27:22.852 --> 01:27:26.312
And so it's great opportunity for many of my students.

01:27:27.492 --> 01:27:30.892
So that would be, in a nutshell, my recommendation.

01:27:31.412 --> 01:27:37.272
Right. And if y'all want to get more info on that, if you're a young person,

01:27:37.532 --> 01:27:39.632
I suggest you get this book by Dr.

01:27:39.792 --> 01:27:45.352
Emiliana Vegas called Let's Change the World, How to Work with International

01:27:45.352 --> 01:27:47.892
Development Organizations to Make a Difference.

01:27:48.432 --> 01:27:52.652
If people want to get the book, Doc, how can they do that?

01:27:52.772 --> 01:27:57.052
And how can they get in touch with you if they want you to come and speak or whatever?

01:27:57.512 --> 01:28:02.052
Oh, thanks for that. So I have a website. You can get in touch with me there,

01:28:02.352 --> 01:28:04.192
both at Harvard and my personal one.

01:28:04.372 --> 01:28:09.452
So my personal one is EmilianaVegas.com. And at Harvard, if you type Emiliana

01:28:09.452 --> 01:28:12.272
Vegas Harvard, you'll find me, email and all.

01:28:12.972 --> 01:28:18.072
And the book is now being sold in most major online bookstores like Amazon,

01:28:18.452 --> 01:28:21.072
Barnes & Noble, bookshop.org.

01:28:21.172 --> 01:28:26.252
And I'm trying very hard to get it into bookstores, especially in university

01:28:26.252 --> 01:28:31.372
towns with my editors, because I think a lot of people come by to visit and

01:28:31.372 --> 01:28:34.472
they want to get it and they're having a hard time getting it from Amazon.

01:28:34.772 --> 01:28:40.672
So, you know, when they come just to visit and give a talk, even more senior people want to read it.

01:28:41.372 --> 01:28:46.492
All right. Well, Dr. Vegas, I greatly appreciate you coming on the podcast.

01:28:48.003 --> 01:28:54.763
I appreciate the way that you wrote this book. I think in this time that we

01:28:54.763 --> 01:28:59.463
need more encouragement to do the work that needs to be done,

01:28:59.683 --> 01:29:02.203
whether it's here in the United States or across the globe.

01:29:02.783 --> 01:29:09.463
So I greatly appreciate your dedication to education. I greatly appreciate you

01:29:09.463 --> 01:29:14.743
writing this book and sharing your experience, personal and professional.

01:29:15.263 --> 01:29:20.383
And again, thank you for coming on the podcast. much success thank you thank

01:29:20.383 --> 01:29:24.823
you for having me it's been really a pleasure speaking with you yes ma'am all

01:29:24.823 --> 01:29:26.823
right guys and we're going to catch y'all on the other side.

01:29:28.080 --> 01:29:38.480
Music.

01:29:38.583 --> 01:29:46.163
All right and we are back so i want to thank rodney govins for coming on the

01:29:46.163 --> 01:29:52.963
show really taking time out of campaigning because I know how hard that is.

01:29:53.203 --> 01:30:00.183
And to be able to schedule the show and make an appeal at the 11th hour to get

01:30:00.183 --> 01:30:04.123
people to vote for you is really, really challenging and stuff.

01:30:04.123 --> 01:30:06.903
And but I'm glad that he was able to do that.

01:30:07.023 --> 01:30:11.803
And I'm glad that y'all were able to hear him and understand that there are

01:30:11.803 --> 01:30:16.883
good people running that are about government and not entertainment.

01:30:17.263 --> 01:30:20.343
And so I really wish him success.

01:30:21.861 --> 01:30:26.901
In his endeavor, I'll be watching. And now that I have met him.

01:30:28.621 --> 01:30:32.861
You know, regardless of the results, I want to follow him.

01:30:33.381 --> 01:30:37.701
I am hoping that the people of Arkansas do the right thing and vote for him,

01:30:37.841 --> 01:30:40.021
but especially in that first congressional district.

01:30:40.241 --> 01:30:47.601
But either way, I think this is a brother that's going to be doing great things, whether it's in D.C.

01:30:47.641 --> 01:30:50.081
Or in his in his home state.

01:30:51.201 --> 01:30:54.941
So I'm really glad that I had a chance to get him on the podcast.

01:30:55.761 --> 01:30:59.401
And, you know, writing for Congress dot org.

01:31:00.141 --> 01:31:05.141
If y'all want to help him out in this last stage.

01:31:05.921 --> 01:31:13.561
And to be honest, you know, regardless of the results of the election, campaigns cause money.

01:31:14.461 --> 01:31:17.921
And, you know, if y'all want to help him knock out some of that debt that he

01:31:17.921 --> 01:31:20.001
may have incurred one way or the other.

01:31:20.081 --> 01:31:23.461
Feel free to go to the website and help the brother out.

01:31:24.521 --> 01:31:31.721
And then I also want to thank Dr. Miliana Vegas for coming on.

01:31:33.201 --> 01:31:37.601
And we had recently just connected and then on LinkedIn.

01:31:38.381 --> 01:31:44.261
And so it was really, really good to be able to get her on the podcast to talk

01:31:44.261 --> 01:31:46.401
about her new book, Let's Change the World.

01:31:46.401 --> 01:31:51.541
I mean, why wouldn't you want somebody on the podcast that wants to change the

01:31:51.541 --> 01:31:53.661
world, right, for the better?

01:31:54.261 --> 01:31:58.081
So I'm really, really glad that she was able to come on.

01:31:58.241 --> 01:32:07.401
And I am, like I told her in an interview, I am really, really thankful for people like her that.

01:32:08.610 --> 01:32:14.410
Are committed to educating young people. You know, my mom was an educator.

01:32:14.770 --> 01:32:21.390
I briefly taught, and I always hold educators in high esteem.

01:32:21.710 --> 01:32:27.590
I just, you know, it's one of the most, if not the most noble profession out there.

01:32:28.330 --> 01:32:32.570
Some philosophers said that public service was the greatest aim of mankind,

01:32:32.570 --> 01:32:40.410
and I bought into that, and that's why I got into politics. But, education is so vital.

01:32:41.150 --> 01:32:48.810
And if this election hasn't taught you that, I don't know what else would be

01:32:48.810 --> 01:32:54.410
a better argument about education. So I'm glad that my guests were able to come on.

01:32:55.150 --> 01:33:02.110
And as I stated, when this podcast drops, it'll be election E.

01:33:03.690 --> 01:33:09.750
And I hope that you, if you had a chance in your state to early vote,

01:33:09.890 --> 01:33:14.510
I hope that you've already done that. If not, I need you to show up on Election Day and vote.

01:33:16.050 --> 01:33:20.410
You know, and I'll be glad when this phase is over.

01:33:20.970 --> 01:33:26.410
We're coming down to the homestretch and it's always going to be hectic and tense.

01:33:28.290 --> 01:33:33.610
But, you know, and you're always glad if you're in the political game where

01:33:33.610 --> 01:33:37.810
you're a candidate or just somebody that follows it, you really look forward

01:33:37.810 --> 01:33:41.210
to Election Day because it's the culmination, right?

01:33:42.610 --> 01:33:47.790
So you're glad that that's over with. And, you know, hopefully,

01:33:48.010 --> 01:33:51.870
you know, the candidate that you support wins. And in my case,

01:33:51.970 --> 01:33:57.130
I pray that Vice President Harris wins the election.

01:33:57.450 --> 01:34:03.890
And we may not know definitively who won, you know, for a couple of days because

01:34:03.890 --> 01:34:06.090
we got to make sure all the votes are counted and all that.

01:34:06.230 --> 01:34:08.490
But just my hunch, y'all.

01:34:09.990 --> 01:34:15.230
And, you know, I think that's, you know, that's the outcome that's going to

01:34:15.230 --> 01:34:19.270
happen. But I need y'all to vote to make sure that outcome happens.

01:34:20.800 --> 01:34:29.100
But now based on the other person running, we still got a silly season to go.

01:34:29.420 --> 01:34:34.500
We're still going to have all these challenges for no reason,

01:34:35.620 --> 01:34:39.240
you know, especially if the outcome goes to where I think it is.

01:34:39.420 --> 01:34:47.660
He's going to claim that there was fraud involved because his ego does not allow him to accept defeat.

01:34:48.760 --> 01:34:56.100
And so we'll be dealing with the news cycle will be filled with lawsuits and

01:34:56.100 --> 01:35:02.040
challenges and accusations and all this stuff until January 20th, 2025.

01:35:03.680 --> 01:35:07.480
Yeah, so over your Thanksgiving holiday, over your Christmas holiday,

01:35:08.680 --> 01:35:17.500
Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, forgive me in the Muslim community, I forget the holiday

01:35:17.500 --> 01:35:19.460
that you'll be celebrating at the same time.

01:35:20.100 --> 01:35:24.040
I know, I kind of know it, but I don't want to mispronounce it.

01:35:24.920 --> 01:35:30.780
So let's say holiday season, you know, while you'll be thinking about turkey and gifts.

01:35:33.080 --> 01:35:38.260
Football, basketball, and, you know, what movies you're going to check out,

01:35:38.920 --> 01:35:43.580
kind of family time you're going to have, you're still going to have this foolishness

01:35:43.580 --> 01:35:49.280
going on because somebody can't accept defeat, you know.

01:35:49.440 --> 01:35:56.560
And if for some reason it's reversed, there's going to be some angst in the community.

01:35:59.420 --> 01:36:05.880
But, you know, and then, you know, concerns about is this dude going to do what

01:36:05.880 --> 01:36:07.300
we were afraid he was going to do?

01:36:07.680 --> 01:36:12.340
Right. And strategies being developed to counter whatever he tries to do.

01:36:12.920 --> 01:36:15.520
But I don't think that's going to happen. I think we're going to be dealing

01:36:15.520 --> 01:36:21.660
with the lawsuits and not accepting defeat from the previous president.

01:36:22.280 --> 01:36:24.120
So I'm just telling you, I'll be

01:36:24.120 --> 01:36:29.480
ready for it. I'm debating about whether having a show or not next week.

01:36:30.756 --> 01:36:34.716
You know, and if I do, I'm probably just going to have some folks that have

01:36:34.716 --> 01:36:37.716
been on the show before to kind of talk about what happened.

01:36:38.236 --> 01:36:40.916
Or I'll just talk about what happened. It all depends.

01:36:42.556 --> 01:36:45.356
But I'll be interested to see what happens Tuesday.

01:36:47.716 --> 01:36:55.116
And if my hunch about the American electorate is correct, because I don't think

01:36:55.116 --> 01:36:57.236
it's as close as people are making it to be.

01:36:57.676 --> 01:37:01.976
If it is, okay. But I don't think it is.

01:37:02.236 --> 01:37:05.376
I just think that we're at

01:37:05.376 --> 01:37:08.216
a point now in American history where it's time

01:37:08.216 --> 01:37:10.976
for us to literally turn the page and

01:37:10.976 --> 01:37:18.776
move forward and get back to governing and get to a point where we're working

01:37:18.776 --> 01:37:27.716
on solutions and the United States reasserting its role as the clear voice and

01:37:27.716 --> 01:37:29.356
a clear example of democracy.

01:37:30.816 --> 01:37:37.776
And hoping that this election will send a message to the leadership and here

01:37:37.776 --> 01:37:43.016
and to the world that we're about to approach things a little different.

01:37:43.696 --> 01:37:49.256
And we really want to see a world where everybody has a fair shot.

01:37:50.056 --> 01:37:54.376
Not everybody's going to listen to us, you know, because they're humans and

01:37:54.376 --> 01:38:00.956
they have pride and their culture and all that stuff. But it's time for us to

01:38:00.956 --> 01:38:03.576
do that and do it in not an imperialistic way.

01:38:04.036 --> 01:38:11.476
I think we can be the voice of reason without being heavy handed about it.

01:38:12.056 --> 01:38:18.716
And I think this new generation of leadership that will emerge on November the

01:38:18.716 --> 01:38:25.236
5th, 2024, will set the pattern for that and hopefully for generations to come.

01:38:27.353 --> 01:38:34.453
But, you know, this is now the second presidential cycle this podcast has gone through.

01:38:35.633 --> 01:38:40.453
And, you know, I hope that along that way,

01:38:40.693 --> 01:38:45.893
those of you who have listened and been faithful to the podcast have been encouraged

01:38:45.893 --> 01:38:52.213
that whenever I did vent and whenever I was angry,

01:38:52.473 --> 01:38:57.673
that it allowed you to say, yeah, that's how I'm feeling. Right.

01:38:58.853 --> 01:39:04.953
But for the most part, I hope that you realize that despite all of the foolishness,

01:39:05.173 --> 01:39:08.973
all of the people that are about clickbait and entertainment,

01:39:09.313 --> 01:39:13.673
that there are people out here that are really trying to make a difference to

01:39:13.673 --> 01:39:18.133
really trying to make our country and our world a better place.

01:39:19.813 --> 01:39:24.413
And that it gives you hope that we can get there.

01:39:25.653 --> 01:39:30.013
It's never an overnight solution, no matter what the issue is.

01:39:30.833 --> 01:39:36.513
It's a matter of commitment. I love Dr.

01:39:36.693 --> 01:39:41.533
Corte quoting Dr. Karanga,

01:39:43.152 --> 01:39:46.992
Because the two elements is commitment and consciousness.

01:39:47.892 --> 01:39:54.452
I'm glad that was uplifted on this podcast. And because really, that's what it is.

01:39:55.012 --> 01:40:01.132
We have to have a consciousness to make this world better.

01:40:01.532 --> 01:40:05.792
And then we have to have a commitment to follow through.

01:40:07.692 --> 01:40:10.872
I just, you know, that's really, really powerful.

01:40:12.632 --> 01:40:17.072
And my goal with this podcast is to continue to do that,

01:40:17.692 --> 01:40:24.432
continue to create that consciousness and give you the encouragement to be committed

01:40:24.432 --> 01:40:30.792
in making sure that we achieve what needs to be achieved for people in this country.

01:40:30.792 --> 01:40:38.432
And around the globe to be all that they can be and not have government be an

01:40:38.432 --> 01:40:45.412
impediment or impediment, however you want to say it, toward that goal.

01:40:45.792 --> 01:40:51.872
Government should be the assist. Government should be the protector of rights

01:40:51.872 --> 01:41:02.932
and the facilitator to make sure that every citizen is allowed to live and live abundantly, right?

01:41:04.952 --> 01:41:14.012
So, yeah, I do want to say one thing, and this is addressing people who think

01:41:14.012 --> 01:41:19.732
that in order to gain something in life, you have to destroy something else.

01:41:21.012 --> 01:41:29.712
Life is not a zero-sum game. Those of us who are practitioners of faith understand

01:41:29.712 --> 01:41:34.732
that there are struggles, but those struggles build character within us.

01:41:35.892 --> 01:41:40.092
And even though we don't like to struggle, even though the struggle is very

01:41:40.092 --> 01:41:41.732
inconvenient and very uncomfortable,

01:41:43.657 --> 01:41:45.637
All we got to do is make it to the other side.

01:41:47.757 --> 01:41:52.017
And when we get to the other side, there's a reward for that.

01:41:52.397 --> 01:41:55.457
And I'm not talking about an afterlife reward.

01:41:55.637 --> 01:42:02.917
I'm talking about during our existence in this plane that we achieve a reward.

01:42:03.257 --> 01:42:04.757
We've gone through a trial.

01:42:05.197 --> 01:42:08.457
And once you go through a trial, then when the next one happens,

01:42:08.457 --> 01:42:14.517
you have confidence. You have a belief that if I got through that last one,

01:42:14.637 --> 01:42:16.297
I can get through this one, right?

01:42:17.237 --> 01:42:20.937
But you don't have to tear anybody down to achieve anything.

01:42:22.237 --> 01:42:25.777
You don't have to say that people are garbage.

01:42:26.737 --> 01:42:33.797
You don't have to say that countries are garbage. You don't have to deny people

01:42:33.797 --> 01:42:36.157
rights so you can have rights.

01:42:36.877 --> 01:42:40.417
You don't have to oppress other people so you can live comfortably.

01:42:40.677 --> 01:42:44.337
We all can coexist in this world.

01:42:45.277 --> 01:42:52.857
Your judgment of somebody's lifestyle is not necessary for a society to function.

01:42:54.377 --> 01:43:00.577
People, if they are allowed to live their lives and those lives are productive,

01:43:01.277 --> 01:43:06.257
then all it will do is benefit society, period.

01:43:07.457 --> 01:43:13.557
We're, you know, we're not trying to duly influence in a sense,

01:43:13.577 --> 01:43:16.237
you know, other people's behavior.

01:43:16.617 --> 01:43:20.537
Right. But we do want to encourage people to be on their best behavior.

01:43:21.357 --> 01:43:29.177
Government can't legislate morality, but we hope that in your socioeconomic

01:43:29.177 --> 01:43:35.217
environment that you gain a sense of morality, whether it's through faith,

01:43:35.497 --> 01:43:39.737
through common core beliefs in your home or whatever,

01:43:40.157 --> 01:43:43.937
that doing the right thing is your primary goal.

01:43:45.357 --> 01:43:51.197
So, you know, you don't have to hate me because I'm black to get where you got to go.

01:43:51.917 --> 01:43:57.197
You don't have to hate me because I'm cisgender to get where you got to go.

01:43:59.105 --> 01:44:02.665
All you've got to do is do what's best for you.

01:44:03.005 --> 01:44:10.745
And in turn, if your heart desires to do something good for the community in the process.

01:44:11.405 --> 01:44:15.985
Now everybody's going to have billionaire money, but give what you can.

01:44:16.905 --> 01:44:22.825
Not everybody is going to have the luxury of time, but do what you can.

01:44:24.265 --> 01:44:35.145
But by all means, stop teaching people to hate and stop teaching people to be judgmental of others.

01:44:35.605 --> 01:44:40.105
It's hard. It's almost a natural instinct.

01:44:40.645 --> 01:44:48.305
But we're different. We're human beings. We have been given the ability to reason.

01:44:49.245 --> 01:44:53.005
That's the difference between us and any other creature on this planet.

01:44:53.425 --> 01:44:58.645
We have the ability to reason, and we have the ability to self-regulate.

01:45:00.805 --> 01:45:05.285
And if you don't have that moral compass, please get it.

01:45:06.625 --> 01:45:13.605
It's not too late to get it. And the easiest way is just stop hating, folks.

01:45:14.205 --> 01:45:22.485
You know you can be frustrated with people you can be angry at people but don't hate them,

01:45:23.805 --> 01:45:29.085
you know they are who they are and the same for those of us of faith the same

01:45:29.085 --> 01:45:31.385
God that created us created them,

01:45:32.885 --> 01:45:40.005
so you have to tolerate them you have to love them you just have to and I think

01:45:40.005 --> 01:45:45.325
the more the minute that we accept that the better off we'll be.

01:45:46.865 --> 01:45:52.905
And we can navigate through any crisis, through any challenge.

01:45:53.885 --> 01:45:58.545
All right. So if you haven't voted yet, if you didn't take advantage of early

01:45:58.545 --> 01:46:01.925
voting, go vote on November the 5th on Tuesday.

01:46:03.725 --> 01:46:07.305
And again, thank you all for listening. Until next time.

01:46:08.080 --> 01:46:55.621
Music.