A podcast for those who are different and want to make a difference.

Jan. 3, 2024

Best of 2023: Naghmeh Panahi's Story of Survival in Iran and Unmasking Hidden Domestic Abuse

In the depths of despair, Naghmeh Panahi's story holds an unexpected twist that will leave you breathless. From the war-torn streets of her homeland to the foreign shores of America, she battled not just with oppression, but with her own sense of belonging. However, it was when her husband faced imprisonment in Iran that her life took a dramatic turn, revealing a truth so shocking it will make you question everything. Prepare yourself for a journey of resilience, as Naghmeh's story unravels with a heart-wrenching open loop, leaving you eager to discover the strength she found to break free.

The player is loading ...

In the depths of despair, Naghmeh Panahi's story holds an unexpected twist that will leave you breathless. From the war-torn streets of her homeland to the foreign shores of America, she battled not just with oppression, but with her own sense of belonging. But it was when her husband faced imprisonment in Iran that her life took a dramatic turn, revealing a truth so shocking it will make you question everything. Prepare yourself for a journey of resilience, as Naghmeh's story unravels with a heart-wrenching open loop, leaving you eager to discover the strength she found to break free.

My special guest is Naghmeh Panahi

We are thrilled to rerelease this Best of 2023 episode with Naghmeh Panahi on the A World of Difference podcast. Naghmeh's story is one of incredible strength and resilience in the face of abuse. Having experienced domestic violence and spiritual abuse within religious institutions, she has become a beacon of hope for survivors. Her book, "I Didn't Survive: Emerging Whole After Deception, Persecution, and Hidden Abuse," is a testament to her courage and determination. Naghmeh's journey from an immigrant Muslim girl from Iran to an advocate for women and children impacted by domestic abuse is truly inspiring. Through her foundation, Tahir Al Nisa, she is making a profound impact on the lives of those who have experienced similar traumas. We are honored to have Naghmeh share her story and insights on the podcast, as she empowers others to break free from abusive relationships and find their voice. Get ready for an episode filled with empowerment and inspiration.

As we go through the fires of trials, we don't really survive. A lot of our way of thinking or things we didn't see before, like abuse or different things just come to light and our old self doesn't survive and we become a new person. - Naghmeh Panahi

In this episode, you will be able to:

Discover the courage and strength of Naghmeh Panahi as she shares her powerful story of surviving abuse within a religious institution.
Uncover the hidden nature of abuse within religious institutions and gain a deeper understanding of the complexities involved.
Find hope and inspiration as you learn about the healing and recovery process for survivors of abuse within religious institutions.
Gain knowledge and insight into advocating for change and holding religious institutions accountable for their actions.
Empower yourself to break free from abusive relationships within religious institutions and create a life of freedom and authenticity.

Uncover the Hidden Abuse

Abuse takes many forms, and often, the emotional and verbal types remain hidden from sight. In religious institutions, the power dynamics can foster such mistreatment, which goes unnoticed or is deliberately neglected. Understanding the nuanced ways in which abuse can manifest is vital to identifying victims and offering them the necessary support and resources.

The resources mentioned in this episode are:

Listen to the A World of Difference podcast episode featuring Naghmeh Panahi's inspiring story of survival and redemption.
Purchase Naghmeh Panahi's book, I Didn't Survive: Emerging Whole After Deception, Persecution, and Hidden Abuse, available now. https://naghmehpanahi.com/
Support the Tahir Al Nisa Foundation, co-founded by Naghmeh Panahi, which serves women and children impacted by domestic abuse by visiting their website and donating. https://www.tahriralnisa.org/about/naghmeh-panahi/
Learn more about the immigrant experience and the trauma faced by refugees by attending trauma recovery weekends and workshops led by experts like Naghmeh Panahi's husband.
Explore the Persian culture and attend events like the Iranian New Year Festival to experience the rich traditions and learn about the history.
Get involved in human rights advocacy by supporting organizations like Amnesty International and sending postcards to individuals in jail in Iran.
Reflect on your own identity and the impact of being a third culture kid by exploring resources and joining support groups for individuals who have similar experiences.
Educate yourself on domestic abuse and its impact by reading books and articles, attending workshops, and supporting organizations that provide resources and support for survivors.
Share Naghmeh Panahi's story

Abusive governments or abusive people try to control you think they try to control weak people, but it's actually sometimes it's trying to restrain strong people... women are really strong and that's why the government is so focused on shutting them down. - Naghmeh Panahi

The key moments in this episode are:

00:00:02 - Introduction

00:01:38 - Nagmeh's Background and Book

00:05:17 - Writing the Book to Help Others

00:07:06 - Immigrant Experience

00:11:41 - Identity as a Third Culture Kid

00:16:03 - Strength of Iranian Women

00:18:11 - Restriction and Fear in the Middle East

00:19:28 - Strong Women and Resistance to Oppression

00:20:53 - Inspiring Women in the Middle East

00:22:19 - Domestic Violence and Speaking Out

00:31:45 - Naghmeh's Hope for Franklin Graham

00:33:27 - Naghmeh's Thoughts on Franklin Graham

00:34:19 - The Title of Naghmeh's Book

00:38:20 - Naghmeh's Message to Those Experiencing Abuse

00:42:55 - Paying Attention to the Body's Signals

00:47:20 - The Sacrifice of Putting People First

00:47:43 - Finding Naghmeh and Her Work

00:48:21 - Gratitude for the Connection

00:49:06 - Naghmeh's Life as a Butterfly

00:50:43 - Calls to Action Based on Naghmeh's Story

Even when you have a strong force coming against you, whether it's government or it's a religious institution or whatever, you have to really be strengthened even more, be stronger to break through. - Naghmeh Panahi

Timestamped summary of this episode:

00:00:02 - Introduction

The host introduces the podcast episode and provides a trigger warning for the guest's discussion of abuse. Listeners are advised to prioritize their mental health while listening to the episode.

00:01:38 - Nagme's Background and Book

Nagme Panahi is introduced as a remarkable woman who has experienced various forms of abuse. Her book, "I Didn't Survive," details her journey of emerging whole after deception, persecution, and hidden abuse.

00:05:17 - Writing the Book to Help Others

Nagme shares that she wrote her book to help others who may be going through similar trials and to share her story of renewal and transformation through suffering.

00:07:06 - Immigrant Experience

Nagme discusses her experience as an immigrant from Iran, highlighting the challenges of adjusting to a new culture and feeling like she didn't fit in. She also reflects on the trauma of war and the limited resources in her home country.

00:11:41 - Identity as a Third Culture Kid

Nagme shares the difficulties of navigating her identity as a third culture kid, feeling neither fully Iranian nor fully American. She discusses the unique perspective and mindset that come with living between cultures.

00:16:03 - Strength of Iranian Women

The guest discusses the stereotypes and misconceptions about Iranian women, highlighting their strength and resilience. She shares stories of Iranian women breaking barriers and standing up against oppression.

00:18:11 - Restriction and Fear in the Middle East

The conversation shifts to the restrictions faced by women in the Middle East, particularly in Afghanistan. The guest emphasizes that these restrictions are a sign of fear from those in power towards strong women who may bring about change.

00:19:28 - Strong Women and Resistance to Oppression

The guest mentions several strong Iranian women who have stood up to oppressive governments and religious institutions. She highlights the importance of strength and resilience when facing challenges and how these women have become voices for change.

00:20:53 - Inspiring Women in the Middle East

The host shares her experiences meeting incredible women in the Middle East, including Malala, and hearing their stories of education and empowerment. She acknowledges the threat these women pose to those who want to suppress their voices.

00:22:19 - Domestic Violence and Speaking Out

The guest opens up about her experience of domestic violence from her husband, who was seen as a Christian hero. She discusses the challenges of speaking out and the strength she found within herself to set boundaries and break free from the abuse.

00:31:45 - Naghmeh's Hope for Franklin Graham

Naghmeh expresses her desire for Franklin Graham to use his platform to advocate for abuse survivors and bring awareness to the issue within the church. She hopes that he will repent of his harmful views and become an ally in the fight against abuse.

00:33:27 - Naghmeh's Thoughts on Franklin Graham

Naghmeh clarifies that while she doesn't currently like Franklin Graham, she doesn't hate him either. She believes that his way of thinking is harmful and hopes that he will change his perspective and become an advocate for abuse survivors.

00:34:19 - The Title of Naghmeh's Book

Naghmeh explains that the title of her book, "I Didn't Survive," reflects the transformation she went through in breaking free from cultural and religious expectations that silenced and oppressed women. She emerged as a new person with a deeper understanding of who God is and the power she possesses.

00:38:20 - Naghmeh's Message to Those Experiencing Abuse

Naghmeh urges anyone experiencing abuse, whether it's in a marriage, church, or any other institution, to prioritize their own well-being and get out of the toxic environment. She emphasizes that God values individuals more than institutions and encourages victims to trust their bodies and seek help.

00:42:55 - Paying Attention to the Body's Signals

Naghmeh highlights the importance of listening to one's body when it comes to recognizing abuse

00:47:20 - The Sacrifice of Putting People First

Naghmeh discusses the importance of prioritizing people and being willing to make sacrifices for them, even if it means losing everything. She emphasizes the simplicity of this concept while acknowledging the challenges it can present.

00:47:43 - Finding Naghmeh and Her Work

Naghmeh shares that she now has a website where people can find information about her and her work in the Middle East. She also mentions that her name can be searched on social media to access more information.

00:48:21 - Gratitude for the Connection

Lori expresses her gratitude for the opportunity to get to know Naghmeh and establish a friendship. She also acknowledges the vulnerability Naghmeh has shown through her writing and shares her appreciation for it.

00:49:06 - Naghmeh's Life as a Butterfly

Lori reflects on Naghmeh's transformation from a caterpillar to a butterfly, symbolizing her freedom and growth. She encourages listeners to find inspiration in Naghmeh's story and highlights the lessons embedded within her narrative.

00:50:43 - Calls to Action for 2024

Lori acknowledges that a story like Naghmeh's can lead us to want to make changes in our own lives whether it's in New Year's Resolutions, goals or saying "goodbye" to last year's ways and "hello" to this year's new ways.

Follow the podcast at:

Join our Difference Maker membership community for a ton of exclusive content for as little as $5/month. (The price of your a latte at your local coffee shop to enjoy a whole month of content.) Lori's Travel Tips are included as well as exclusive minisodes with our guests not available anywhere else. Join for deeper conversations and a little fun today at https://www.patreon.com/aworldofdifference

Keep making a difference wherever you are!

Lori Adams-Brown, Host & Executive Producer

A World of Difference Podcast

Transcript

1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,906
Hi Nagmeh It's great to see you again

2
00:00:04,906 --> 00:00:06,606
after being together in Chicago very

3
00:00:06,606 --> 00:00:08,446
recently a it's just wonderful to have you

4
00:00:08,446 --> 00:00:12,174
on the show today a you for having me It

5
00:00:12,174 --> 00:00:13,834
was really nice meeting you in person

6
00:00:13,834 --> 00:00:19,166
after having heard from you from a mutual

7
00:00:19,166 --> 00:00:21,450
friend That's right.And shout out to

8
00:00:21,450 --> 00:00:25,622
Benjie Craig for getting us to meet be we

9
00:00:25,622 --> 00:00:30,802
met in person and in us arrange this

10
00:00:30,802 --> 00:00:33,126
interview before we ever met kinds person

11
00:00:33,126 --> 00:00:36,920
And Benji listens to the show So Hi Benji

12
00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:40,486
Thank you Benji.Yes Thank you Benji

13
00:00:40,486 --> 00:00:44,300
Everybody knows and loves So yeah it was

14
00:00:44,300 --> 00:00:49,542
so wonderful to not only meet you but get

15
00:00:49,542 --> 00:00:53,046
a chance to hear you speak also at the

16
00:00:53,046 --> 00:00:55,070
Restore Conference and just get to spend a

17
00:00:55,070 --> 00:00:58,078
lot of time over a And I know you got to

18
00:00:58,078 --> 00:01:00,718
ride with my husband in the car ride from

19
00:01:00,718 --> 00:01:03,978
the airport because I ended up having

20
00:01:03,978 --> 00:01:05,934
another meeting right away as soon as I

21
00:01:05,934 --> 00:01:07,426
landed.But our conversations really meant

22
00:01:07,426 --> 00:01:08,786
so much to me at the Restore Conference

23
00:01:08,786 --> 00:01:12,590
and also getting a chance to get a copy of

24
00:01:12,590 --> 00:01:14,354
your book which is really already making a

25
00:01:14,354 --> 00:01:17,138
difference in so many people's lives But

26
00:01:17,138 --> 00:01:19,170
tell us about your book I didn't survive

27
00:01:19,170 --> 00:01:21,302
And why you decided to write it.Well

28
00:01:21,302 --> 00:01:23,174
today. help others I think a who's lived a

29
00:01:23,174 --> 00:01:24,646
life long enough knows what a journey it

30
00:01:24,646 --> 00:01:27,286
is I don't think I realize that or many

31
00:01:27,286 --> 00:01:29,670
people realize that in their maybe twenty

32
00:01:29,670 --> 00:01:34,346
s And then life hits as you get older And

33
00:01:34,346 --> 00:01:37,542
I think in through then trials of life a

34
00:01:37,542 --> 00:01:39,226
lot of times as we go through the fires of

35
00:01:39,226 --> 00:01:41,406
trials we don't really survive.A lot of

36
00:01:41,406 --> 00:01:46,458
our way of thinking or things we didn't

37
00:01:46,458 --> 00:01:50,202
see before like abuse or different things

38
00:01:50,202 --> 00:01:53,554
just come to light and our old self

39
00:01:53,554 --> 00:01:57,938
doesn't survive and we become a new person

40
00:01:57,938 --> 00:02:01,634
Kind of like I describe it to like a

41
00:02:01,634 --> 00:02:03,774
caterpillar kind of going through this

42
00:02:03,774 --> 00:02:05,346
cocoon and then becoming a butterfly And I

43
00:02:05,346 --> 00:02:07,766
think a lot of us walk through life There

44
00:02:07,766 --> 00:02:09,814
are processes where that happens a we

45
00:02:09,814 --> 00:02:11,442
really become renewed and changed through

46
00:02:11,442 --> 00:02:14,914
that suffering Or that trial.It's true And

47
00:02:14,914 --> 00:02:18,726
you have gone through so many things that

48
00:02:18,726 --> 00:02:22,886
almost took you out I mean the things a

49
00:02:22,886 --> 00:02:25,174
you have had to a through would a been

50
00:02:25,174 --> 00:02:28,282
more than most people face in Tahir

51
00:02:28,282 --> 00:02:31,942
lifetime And yet you face so many mean the

52
00:02:31,942 --> 00:02:34,142
beginning I just think of as around child

53
00:02:34,142 --> 00:02:36,282
the immigrant experience.My husband

54
00:02:36,282 --> 00:02:38,782
actually just left today He's in La doing

55
00:02:38,782 --> 00:02:40,478
another one of his trauma recovery

56
00:02:40,478 --> 00:02:42,318
weekends for some Afghan refugees He's

57
00:02:42,318 --> 00:02:45,806
flown Abadini, and couple of experts to

58
00:02:45,806 --> 00:02:50,014
help him do this weekend And so I know

59
00:02:50,014 --> 00:02:51,746
know the immigrant experience coming from

60
00:02:51,746 --> 00:02:53,218
able government especially that's so

61
00:02:53,218 --> 00:02:55,154
intense like where you had to flee and

62
00:02:55,154 --> 00:02:58,066
Iran is full of its own trauma and

63
00:02:58,066 --> 00:03:00,102
childhood So tell us a little bit about at

64
00:03:00,102 --> 00:03:04,050
that was like for you as a child to just

65
00:03:04,050 --> 00:03:07,494
show up in America after all you had gone

66
00:03:07,494 --> 00:03:09,130
through.Yeah I actually really enjoy

67
00:03:09,130 --> 00:03:11,354
working with immigrants and refugees

68
00:03:11,354 --> 00:03:14,170
because I understand and in a way working

69
00:03:14,170 --> 00:03:17,962
with them is also healing for me Yeah I

70
00:03:17,962 --> 00:03:21,038
grew up in war so some of the refugees I

71
00:03:21,038 --> 00:03:24,426
work with Syrian now afghani and Iraq and

72
00:03:24,426 --> 00:03:26,862
especially Middle East where I'm from

73
00:03:26,862 --> 00:03:28,634
really understand just the trauma of war

74
00:03:28,634 --> 00:03:32,458
and today government that is against you

75
00:03:32,458 --> 00:03:36,914
And then coming to America to a different

76
00:03:36,914 --> 00:03:40,302
world I grew up in a world where girls

77
00:03:40,302 --> 00:03:43,006
went to a different school boys went to a

78
00:03:43,006 --> 00:03:44,866
different school I was always afraid of

79
00:03:44,866 --> 00:03:47,326
walking out of the house without a head

80
00:03:47,326 --> 00:03:48,430
covering.I had really nightmares about it

81
00:03:48,430 --> 00:03:49,926
her it was just very much Islamic country

82
00:03:49,926 --> 00:03:52,066
with that world And so coming to America

83
00:03:52,066 --> 00:03:53,366
was really strange From stores where in

84
00:03:53,366 --> 00:04:02,086
Iran we had to stand in line for bread to

85
00:04:02,086 --> 00:04:04,266
the baker or stand in line for meat and

86
00:04:04,266 --> 00:04:07,418
also we only got coupons You could only

87
00:04:07,418 --> 00:04:10,586
have so much food because of war and there

88
00:04:10,586 --> 00:04:14,160
was limits in water We showered once a

89
00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:16,958
week if that sometimes once heard month

90
00:04:16,958 --> 00:04:19,146
and everything a just so limited and there

91
00:04:19,146 --> 00:04:21,422
was always fear know dying.And then

92
00:04:21,422 --> 00:04:23,586
America I realized one thing that was

93
00:04:23,586 --> 00:04:25,874
really strange that I realized in my own

94
00:04:25,874 --> 00:04:28,578
head was for the first time I could dream

95
00:04:28,578 --> 00:04:31,090
about growing up in Iran I couldn't dream

96
00:04:31,090 --> 00:04:36,066
about growing up because I didn't knows

97
00:04:36,066 --> 00:04:41,686
And so I realized when I came to America

98
00:04:41,686 --> 00:04:43,286
at nine I started dreaming like other kids

99
00:04:43,286 --> 00:04:45,202
One of the sentences that was strange

100
00:04:45,202 --> 00:04:47,558
Restore me was kids saying I want to be

101
00:04:47,558 --> 00:04:50,806
this when I grow up And I thought I've

102
00:04:50,806 --> 00:04:52,298
never thought about what I want to be when

103
00:04:52,298 --> 00:04:55,846
I grew up because I didn't even think I

104
00:04:55,846 --> 00:04:57,802
was going to grow up.And so just the idea

105
00:04:57,802 --> 00:05:00,266
of dreaming about what I wanted to be and

106
00:05:00,266 --> 00:05:03,886
the being in school with boys a girls to

107
00:05:03,886 --> 00:05:06,414
and a girls not have head coverings and

108
00:05:06,414 --> 00:05:07,886
have makeup I pretty much end of

109
00:05:07,886 --> 00:05:09,966
elementary and junior high was all the

110
00:05:09,966 --> 00:05:13,666
makeup and all the craziness So I kind of

111
00:05:13,666 --> 00:05:18,786
was thrown in that world and having

112
00:05:18,786 --> 00:05:21,378
boyfriends and Middle Eastern culture a

113
00:05:21,378 --> 00:05:24,820
just like not normal So feeling kind of

114
00:05:24,820 --> 00:05:27,762
strange I didn't fit in We came to Idaho

115
00:05:27,762 --> 00:05:30,294
shortly after and I was the only person

116
00:05:30,294 --> 00:05:34,166
that was a different color and a lot of

117
00:05:34,166 --> 00:05:35,862
people thought I was maybe Hispanic They

118
00:05:35,862 --> 00:05:37,206
couldn't even understand when I would say

119
00:05:37,206 --> 00:05:38,838
Middle East or Iran.At that time there

120
00:05:38,838 --> 00:05:40,730
wasn't really lot of refugees or

121
00:05:40,730 --> 00:05:44,842
immigrants in this part of the country So

122
00:05:44,842 --> 00:05:47,194
just getting different reactions from

123
00:05:47,194 --> 00:05:50,042
people whether it was fear of me or a

124
00:05:50,042 --> 00:05:55,086
little bit of racism or if they were just

125
00:05:55,086 --> 00:05:56,558
curious but it just felt weird and strange

126
00:05:56,558 --> 00:05:59,626
a I didn't feel like I fit in And quickly

127
00:05:59,626 --> 00:06:03,442
I a to learn the culture so I could fit in

128
00:06:03,442 --> 00:06:07,378
So I guess being embarrassed to speak

129
00:06:07,378 --> 00:06:12,242
Farsi like if we were out I played a

130
00:06:12,242 --> 00:06:16,534
little bit of basketball in junior high

131
00:06:16,534 --> 00:06:20,134
and my dad would say so in Farsi was like

132
00:06:20,134 --> 00:06:21,766
don't say it Just embarrassment of the

133
00:06:21,766 --> 00:06:25,270
language or I don't know.Sometimes in

134
00:06:25,270 --> 00:06:27,894
Middle East there's this thing until you

135
00:06:27,894 --> 00:06:29,542
get married you don't really do any facial

136
00:06:29,542 --> 00:06:33,354
hair removal So mean lot of girls that are

137
00:06:33,354 --> 00:06:35,654
not married a like unibra's and the day

138
00:06:35,654 --> 00:06:38,954
that you actually get married you do all

139
00:06:38,954 --> 00:06:42,586
of that And so my mom was still very much

140
00:06:42,586 --> 00:06:44,526
Iranian so you couldn't shave you couldn't

141
00:06:44,526 --> 00:06:48,174
do anything much with body hair And it was

142
00:06:48,174 --> 00:06:50,702
like hard being in this culture coming

143
00:06:50,702 --> 00:06:53,934
with parents a still had the other culture

144
00:06:53,934 --> 00:06:57,054
where you don't do anything until you get

145
00:06:57,054 --> 00:06:59,534
married and you stay pretty natural in

146
00:06:59,534 --> 00:07:01,122
every way even with picking out your

147
00:07:01,122 --> 00:07:02,258
eyebrow So I felt comparing myself to this

148
00:07:02,258 --> 00:07:03,694
culture it felt a little bit shameful.Like

149
00:07:03,694 --> 00:07:07,254
I wanted to change things about myself to

150
00:07:07,254 --> 00:07:10,166
become more integrated and feel like more

151
00:07:10,166 --> 00:07:14,358
American And over the years it's been

152
00:07:14,358 --> 00:07:16,146
tough because I haven't really felt fully

153
00:07:16,146 --> 00:07:18,934
Iranian anymore because I grew up in

154
00:07:18,934 --> 00:07:21,514
America but I haven't So a lot of people

155
00:07:21,514 --> 00:07:26,054
say I'm sure you feel that way too when

156
00:07:26,054 --> 00:07:30,234
you've been missionary in another you're

157
00:07:30,234 --> 00:07:33,382
like I'm really not this culture a fully I

158
00:07:33,382 --> 00:07:36,574
have against different mindset and

159
00:07:36,574 --> 00:07:38,478
perspective but I'm not a culture either

160
00:07:38,478 --> 00:07:39,998
So I'm kind of in the middle.Yeah it can

161
00:07:39,998 --> 00:07:43,106
be a on the identity right as a child And

162
00:07:43,106 --> 00:07:44,738
so that whole third culture kid experience

163
00:07:44,738 --> 00:07:47,154
which you had and I relate to that part

164
00:07:47,154 --> 00:07:53,682
And my husband and all my kids my husband

165
00:07:53,682 --> 00:08:00,166
and Islamic and all three of our kids are

166
00:08:00,166 --> 00:08:03,894
all third culture kids And we don't get

167
00:08:03,894 --> 00:08:05,462
our identity from had place And typically

168
00:08:05,462 --> 00:08:08,634
that's the human experience.We get it in

169
00:08:08,634 --> 00:08:12,586
other ways Exactly in some beautiful ways

170
00:08:12,586 --> 00:08:16,154
but just some really different ways And I

171
00:08:16,154 --> 00:08:18,826
happen to live in Los Gados California

172
00:08:18,826 --> 00:08:21,194
which is right next to Saratoga and

173
00:08:21,194 --> 00:08:22,878
Saratoga We share a high school district

174
00:08:22,878 --> 00:08:26,222
Los Gados and Saratoga and there's a lot

175
00:08:26,222 --> 00:08:28,446
of Iranian Americans here persians in this

176
00:08:28,446 --> 00:08:30,814
area In fact we are walking distance from

177
00:08:30,814 --> 00:08:33,614
Visona Park and they have the Iranian New

178
00:08:33,614 --> 00:08:35,290
Year Festival there in the spring.We went

179
00:08:35,290 --> 00:08:38,226
last year and had amazing food and there

180
00:08:38,226 --> 00:08:40,606
was like dancing and singing and there was

181
00:08:40,606 --> 00:08:42,946
a whole booth amnesty I was there where

182
00:08:42,946 --> 00:08:45,502
you could send postcards to people who

183
00:08:45,502 --> 00:08:48,466
were in jail in Iran for various reasons

184
00:08:48,466 --> 00:08:50,466
And we did that and just a lot just it was

185
00:08:50,466 --> 00:08:51,686
so fascinating The Persian culture is just

186
00:08:51,686 --> 00:08:54,406
so ancient and amazing and I could imagine

187
00:08:54,406 --> 00:08:56,178
as a child showing up in Idaho which is

188
00:08:56,178 --> 00:08:59,174
very white I wouldn't even know if I could

189
00:08:59,174 --> 00:09:02,586
survive there Not very yeah that you would

190
00:09:02,586 --> 00:09:05,802
feel so different I mean to show up as

191
00:09:05,802 --> 00:09:07,882
Iranian into Saratoga would be a whole

192
00:09:07,882 --> 00:09:08,922
different experience although still

193
00:09:08,922 --> 00:09:11,900
challenging.But to show up there must have

194
00:09:11,900 --> 00:09:15,966
been very hard and traumatic for you at

195
00:09:15,966 --> 00:09:17,770
times Well we actually lived about

196
00:09:17,770 --> 00:09:20,014
craziness. year in Bay Area We lived in

197
00:09:20,014 --> 00:09:24,126
San Jose So I think God gave us that

198
00:09:24,126 --> 00:09:29,906
transition of because I didn't even know

199
00:09:29,906 --> 00:09:31,826
my ABCs so I think God gave that

200
00:09:31,826 --> 00:09:34,274
transition of state that kind of had

201
00:09:34,274 --> 00:09:35,970
English as a second language where a at

202
00:09:35,970 --> 00:09:37,806
that time didn't And so I was helped after

203
00:09:37,806 --> 00:09:40,406
school and there was people that

204
00:09:40,406 --> 00:09:41,654
understood that there's people here that

205
00:09:41,654 --> 00:09:43,366
don't speak English.So I had a little bit

206
00:09:43,366 --> 00:09:46,086
of a transition but still in to Idaho was

207
00:09:46,086 --> 00:09:52,922
a little bit of a shock.And also I think

208
00:09:52,922 --> 00:09:56,586
you understand like the warm culture and a

209
00:09:56,586 --> 00:09:58,954
staying up at night the streets being busy

210
00:09:58,954 --> 00:10:03,218
and people getting out late at night and

211
00:10:03,218 --> 00:10:04,686
just like eating dinner at ten and then

212
00:10:04,686 --> 00:10:06,126
being out at shops possibly because Middle

213
00:10:06,126 --> 00:10:09,310
East is more warm and so people kind of

214
00:10:09,310 --> 00:10:13,774
get out more at night And then Idaho is

215
00:10:13,774 --> 00:10:16,446
like everything shut down a like seven and

216
00:10:16,446 --> 00:10:18,066
you're like but night is when we socialize

217
00:10:18,066 --> 00:10:20,802
What do you do And no one socializes at

218
00:10:20,802 --> 00:10:26,658
night And then each neighbors in their own

219
00:10:26,658 --> 00:10:29,382
little homes.And in the Middle East you're

220
00:10:29,382 --> 00:10:31,958
just used to coming in and out of each

221
00:10:31,958 --> 00:10:34,822
other's home Not just relatives a families

222
00:10:34,822 --> 00:10:36,486
but neighbors Very much community So there

223
00:10:36,486 --> 00:10:40,006
was unibra's lot of things that was just

224
00:10:40,006 --> 00:10:43,258
really strange It took me a while to kind

225
00:10:43,258 --> 00:10:45,626
of adjust to tehran was twelve about what

226
00:10:45,626 --> 00:10:47,594
the surrounding cities or areas is around

227
00:10:47,594 --> 00:10:49,370
12 million people.It's kind of like New

228
00:10:49,370 --> 00:10:53,146
York So coming from 12 million to like

229
00:10:53,146 --> 00:10:56,046
100,000 I think or less was also pretty

230
00:10:56,046 --> 00:10:57,886
shocking I mean I was used to apartments

231
00:10:57,886 --> 00:11:03,178
and then it was like you can have a whole

232
00:11:03,178 --> 00:11:08,914
house with a yard A lot of room in Idaho

233
00:11:08,914 --> 00:11:11,890
It was just a lot of things that were just

234
00:11:11,890 --> 00:11:17,874
so new to me.Yeah I know so many of our

235
00:11:17,874 --> 00:11:20,246
listeners can relate to that in various

236
00:11:20,246 --> 00:11:22,866
ways Even just the warm culture cold

237
00:11:22,866 --> 00:11:24,886
culture has been something I've been in

238
00:11:24,886 --> 00:11:26,758
and out of throughout my life Right and so

239
00:11:26,758 --> 00:11:28,918
a in very warm culture and there's a lot

240
00:11:28,918 --> 00:11:30,890
of studies on this right Warm culture in

241
00:11:30,890 --> 00:11:32,874
more relationships more time with your

242
00:11:32,874 --> 00:11:35,146
relationships Time orientation is very

243
00:11:35,146 --> 00:11:37,590
different.Cold culture is more scheduled

244
00:11:37,590 --> 00:11:39,370
Less relationships less time with those

245
00:11:39,370 --> 00:11:40,426
relationships more time indoors less time

246
00:11:40,426 --> 00:11:44,846
outdoors So yeah it can very different way

247
00:11:44,846 --> 00:11:47,806
of living the human life And when you're

248
00:11:47,806 --> 00:11:49,854
in between those two especially as a child

249
00:11:49,854 --> 00:11:52,446
it can be really hard I want to ask you

250
00:11:52,446 --> 00:11:54,798
this because I know that with your

251
00:11:54,798 --> 00:11:55,758
experience and we're going to get into

252
00:11:55,758 --> 00:11:57,954
some of what you went through and why

253
00:11:57,954 --> 00:11:59,918
surviving was harder for you even later in

254
00:11:59,918 --> 00:12:01,186
life.But I think sometimes there are

255
00:12:01,186 --> 00:12:04,194
stereotypes that we face and we hear about

256
00:12:04,194 --> 00:12:06,162
here in the west about Iranian women

257
00:12:06,162 --> 00:12:08,034
because of some perceptions of women that

258
00:12:08,034 --> 00:12:10,086
wear hijab that are constantly oppressed

259
00:12:10,086 --> 00:12:12,166
and that they're weak somehow and a

260
00:12:12,166 --> 00:12:14,166
vulnerable But you describe in your book

261
00:12:14,166 --> 00:12:18,086
how your mom was really tough She was one

262
00:12:18,086 --> 00:12:20,354
of the first women officers in the Shah's

263
00:12:20,354 --> 00:12:23,434
army We have Narjith Mohammedi who just

264
00:12:23,434 --> 00:12:29,398
won the Nobel Peace Prize Right We have

265
00:12:29,398 --> 00:12:33,066
Masa Amini who gave her life for the cause

266
00:12:33,066 --> 00:12:36,238
of women in Iran I feel like my perception

267
00:12:36,238 --> 00:12:38,318
of a women is there's International lot of

268
00:12:38,318 --> 00:12:39,966
strength How do you feel like this has

269
00:12:39,966 --> 00:12:42,074
often gotten wrong And how would you

270
00:12:42,074 --> 00:12:43,326
describe Iranian women overall They're

271
00:12:43,326 --> 00:12:48,418
definitely strong a I grew up in a family

272
00:12:48,418 --> 00:12:50,562
where my grandma was one of the first

273
00:12:50,562 --> 00:12:52,866
women to study pharmacy and not a to just

274
00:12:52,866 --> 00:12:55,986
be at home And my mom was the first woman

275
00:12:55,986 --> 00:13:00,342
to be in the military in the Shah's Army

276
00:13:00,342 --> 00:13:03,126
and really broke a lot of glass ceilings

277
00:13:03,126 --> 00:13:07,734
and a lot of things that were not normal a

278
00:13:07,734 --> 00:13:10,266
that time Also Masamini and the woman that

279
00:13:10,266 --> 00:13:13,194
came after there the many martyrs the many

280
00:13:13,194 --> 00:13:16,762
women that were killed for saying I don't

281
00:13:16,762 --> 00:13:19,498
want to wear a head in I don't want my

282
00:13:19,498 --> 00:13:21,614
religion forced on me And so I've met

283
00:13:21,614 --> 00:13:23,982
amazing strong Iranian woman.Yeah.Abusive

284
00:13:23,982 --> 00:13:25,978
governments or abusive people try to

285
00:13:25,978 --> 00:13:28,560
control you think they try to control weak

286
00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:31,226
people but it's actually sometimes it's

287
00:13:31,226 --> 00:13:32,798
trying to a strong people Because you

288
00:13:32,798 --> 00:13:36,286
think of about women in Iran having to

289
00:13:36,286 --> 00:13:38,866
wear the hijab or having to conform to all

290
00:13:38,866 --> 00:13:41,166
this they must be weak people It's

291
00:13:41,166 --> 00:13:42,626
actually the government I think or even

292
00:13:42,626 --> 00:13:46,006
abusive a which I talk about in my book

293
00:13:46,006 --> 00:13:52,406
they don't always go a the weak They

294
00:13:52,406 --> 00:13:56,854
actually a lot of times go after the

295
00:13:56,854 --> 00:13:59,482
strong It's kind of like a challenge to

296
00:13:59,482 --> 00:14:02,566
subdue them.So it's interesting that women

297
00:14:02,566 --> 00:14:05,146
are so much under attack in the Middle

298
00:14:05,146 --> 00:14:10,214
East now with Afghanistan I work with a

299
00:14:10,214 --> 00:14:12,174
lot of Afghanis For women not to be

300
00:14:12,174 --> 00:14:13,806
educated it's almost like a fear that

301
00:14:13,806 --> 00:14:15,390
these strong women are going to do

302
00:14:15,390 --> 00:14:17,258
something I work with amazing women that

303
00:14:17,258 --> 00:14:22,622
have come out of is or some are still in I

304
00:14:22,622 --> 00:14:24,302
work with one who's socializes medical

305
00:14:24,302 --> 00:14:25,874
doctor And she's doing amazing work trying

306
00:14:25,874 --> 00:14:28,206
to continue to educate the woman and

307
00:14:28,206 --> 00:14:29,618
children and build confidence to them.Even

308
00:14:29,618 --> 00:14:31,554
though with this new government there's so

309
00:14:31,554 --> 00:14:37,006
much girls are not allowed to do as much

310
00:14:37,006 --> 00:14:38,566
Definitely not educate get a not go out I

311
00:14:38,566 --> 00:14:40,902
think they've banned women from going to a

312
00:14:40,902 --> 00:14:46,486
I mean there's just so much So in a way I

313
00:14:46,486 --> 00:14:49,434
think these restrictions are showing maybe

314
00:14:49,434 --> 00:14:50,986
how afraid they are of yeah not that

315
00:14:50,986 --> 00:14:55,098
they're weak.Actually There's a fear of

316
00:14:55,098 --> 00:14:59,098
them know sometimes in fear they try to

317
00:14:59,098 --> 00:15:01,002
shut you down But that's what I

318
00:15:01,002 --> 00:15:05,246
experienced in Iran is the women are

319
00:15:05,246 --> 00:15:06,622
really strong and that's why the

320
00:15:06,622 --> 00:15:08,238
government is so focused on shutting them

321
00:15:08,238 --> 00:15:11,806
down And it's been through women that a

322
00:15:11,806 --> 00:15:13,454
lot of times the Iranian people have

323
00:15:13,454 --> 00:15:15,694
almost brought on Yeah, revolution.Massi

324
00:15:15,694 --> 00:15:17,138
Ali Nizad she's really well known in the

325
00:15:17,138 --> 00:15:18,754
Iranian community She was an Iranian

326
00:15:18,754 --> 00:15:21,634
reporter for the Iranian regime and now

327
00:15:21,634 --> 00:15:23,486
she's an advocate and she's in America and

328
00:15:23,486 --> 00:15:26,454
she's had so many death threats But she's

329
00:15:26,454 --> 00:15:30,066
also warm strong woman There's a lot of

330
00:15:30,066 --> 00:15:33,190
strong women that have stood up to the

331
00:15:33,190 --> 00:15:36,306
government.And you mentioned the Nobel

332
00:15:36,306 --> 00:15:39,894
Peace Prize winner that have really had to

333
00:15:39,894 --> 00:15:42,466
battle Even when you have a strong force

334
00:15:42,466 --> 00:15:44,746
coming against you whether it's government

335
00:15:44,746 --> 00:15:45,914
or it's a religious institution or

336
00:15:45,914 --> 00:15:47,786
whatever you have to really I don't know

337
00:15:47,786 --> 00:15:49,114
be strengthened even more between stronger

338
00:15:49,114 --> 00:15:50,634
to break through So there's a lot of

339
00:15:50,634 --> 00:15:52,942
strong women that are in Iran and outside

340
00:15:52,942 --> 00:15:55,118
of I that are speaking out and being a

341
00:15:55,118 --> 00:15:57,054
voice for the Iranian people Yeah I find

342
00:15:57,054 --> 00:16:00,494
it very inspiring and I find that the more

343
00:16:00,494 --> 00:16:04,290
we highlight the stories of the strength

344
00:16:04,290 --> 00:16:07,362
the less we are into this sort of pity

345
00:16:07,362 --> 00:16:08,802
situation that these women need rescuing

346
00:16:08,802 --> 00:16:14,834
and the more we want to partner with them

347
00:16:14,834 --> 00:16:18,606
to let their voices be the ones that speak

348
00:16:18,606 --> 00:16:22,646
I was in Abu Dhabi in March for this

349
00:16:22,646 --> 00:16:24,086
conference.Forbes 30 under 30 and 50 over

350
00:16:24,086 --> 00:16:25,698
50 And I mean obviously being in Abu Dhabi

351
00:16:25,698 --> 00:16:29,298
in Dubai the just army. lot of incredible

352
00:16:29,298 --> 00:16:31,638
women both in that nation And that showed

353
00:16:31,638 --> 00:16:33,386
up because there were women getting awards

354
00:16:33,386 --> 00:16:34,586
Like Malala right who received an award

355
00:16:34,586 --> 00:16:37,174
for her You know having spoken with so

356
00:16:37,174 --> 00:16:39,318
many of the refugees coming out of

357
00:16:39,318 --> 00:16:41,102
Afghanistan to live here in the Bay Area

358
00:16:41,102 --> 00:16:43,594
because we have so many and sitting with

359
00:16:43,594 --> 00:16:50,062
them on the couches definitely their home

360
00:16:50,062 --> 00:16:52,014
and hearing about how educated they were

361
00:16:52,014 --> 00:16:54,682
the great work they were doing and then

362
00:16:54,682 --> 00:16:56,866
suddenly it was all gone.These are

363
00:16:56,866 --> 00:16:57,922
incredibly educated and strong and

364
00:16:57,922 --> 00:16:59,966
powerful women that I do think they're

365
00:16:59,966 --> 00:17:02,702
seen as a threat But I know that that

366
00:17:02,702 --> 00:17:06,338
connection that you just a by a strength

367
00:17:06,338 --> 00:17:07,606
needing to be shut down is something you

368
00:17:07,606 --> 00:17:10,946
experienced unfortunately both in your own

369
00:17:10,946 --> 00:17:15,366
home with your husband and from some

370
00:17:15,366 --> 00:17:17,094
Christian celebrity leaders in the

371
00:17:17,094 --> 00:17:19,018
Christian community So describe to us what

372
00:17:19,018 --> 00:17:20,246
it was like to be experiencing domestic

373
00:17:20,246 --> 00:17:23,420
violence from someone who was seen as a

374
00:17:23,420 --> 00:17:29,500
good guy a hero a Christian hero and how

375
00:17:29,500 --> 00:17:38,286
you were somehow seen as a threat when you

376
00:17:38,286 --> 00:17:40,206
tried to speak out About that came out

377
00:17:40,206 --> 00:17:44,770
about yeah My husband was I guess restrain

378
00:17:44,770 --> 00:17:49,154
lot of people found out about him around

379
00:17:49,154 --> 00:17:52,210
2012 2013 when I went to Media.He was

380
00:17:52,210 --> 00:17:54,594
having to who was in prison in Iran And at

381
00:17:54,594 --> 00:17:58,626
the time I came to Media about it which

382
00:17:58,626 --> 00:18:01,206
was my last option we had six months of

383
00:18:01,206 --> 00:18:03,446
working behind the scenes with the lawyers

384
00:18:03,446 --> 00:18:04,694
I worked with and trying to reach

385
00:18:04,694 --> 00:18:07,586
different governments that were friendly

386
00:18:07,586 --> 00:18:13,018
with Iran to try to get them. out But

387
00:18:13,018 --> 00:18:15,130
after six months we realized we couldn't

388
00:18:15,130 --> 00:18:18,858
We got to get it out on Media The person I

389
00:18:18,858 --> 00:18:21,786
a then was very much broken.I did not

390
00:18:21,786 --> 00:18:25,326
think I was strong My a had broken me to a

391
00:18:25,326 --> 00:18:27,726
point where I didn't trust my own judgment

392
00:18:27,726 --> 00:18:30,702
I didn't trust words that would come out

393
00:18:30,702 --> 00:18:34,654
of my mouth the way I thought the way I a

394
00:18:34,654 --> 00:18:38,482
the Bible the way I thought about God

395
00:18:38,482 --> 00:18:41,234
anything I thought was controlled by him

396
00:18:41,234 --> 00:18:45,862
And well are you sure I can say like close

397
00:18:45,862 --> 00:18:50,498
to no confidence about how I looked about

398
00:18:50,498 --> 00:18:53,654
what I said And so his time of

399
00:18:53,654 --> 00:18:55,906
imprisonment really gave me break from my

400
00:18:55,906 --> 00:18:58,098
abuser which I know a lot of people that

401
00:18:58,098 --> 00:19:00,762
come out of abuse When you a way, little

402
00:19:00,762 --> 00:19:04,474
bit of a break the fog starts lifting and

403
00:19:04,474 --> 00:19:07,958
you start realizing oh this is what under

404
00:19:07,958 --> 00:19:12,074
And so his imprisonment in Iran I was in

405
00:19:12,074 --> 00:19:13,834
America He had traveled to Iran and then

406
00:19:13,834 --> 00:19:16,254
he'd been arrested for his is faith.His

407
00:19:16,254 --> 00:19:18,126
imprisonment really gave me that break and

408
00:19:18,126 --> 00:19:20,430
to kind of start seeing things And towards

409
00:19:20,430 --> 00:19:22,910
the end of he had been in prison for three

410
00:19:22,910 --> 00:19:25,326
and a half years About almost year before

411
00:19:25,326 --> 00:19:31,458
he got released he got hold of a cell

412
00:19:31,458 --> 00:19:34,574
phone and he started messaging me from

413
00:19:34,574 --> 00:19:38,454
prison And here I was I traveled the world

414
00:19:38,454 --> 00:19:41,106
trying to get him out.I'd met with

415
00:19:41,106 --> 00:19:44,006
President Obama I had been called by Trump

416
00:19:44,006 --> 00:19:46,534
to his office He was just about to run for

417
00:19:46,534 --> 00:19:52,102
presidency and met with him I had been at

418
00:19:52,102 --> 00:19:56,042
the United Nations I was like literally

419
00:19:56,042 --> 00:20:00,478
doing everything I could to get him

420
00:20:00,478 --> 00:20:02,618
out.And here he gets a phone He sees that

421
00:20:02,618 --> 00:20:06,160
I am confident I'm not that weak person

422
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:13,026
that he had made me to be And he started

423
00:20:13,026 --> 00:20:17,858
calling me names from prison which was

424
00:20:17,858 --> 00:20:19,634
very confusing When you're trying to help

425
00:20:19,634 --> 00:20:22,494
someone out and they're calling you a

426
00:20:22,494 --> 00:20:24,498
whore or jezebel or you're nobody Don't

427
00:20:24,498 --> 00:20:27,126
think if anyone's clapping for you it's

428
00:20:27,126 --> 00:20:29,960
because of me it's not because of you.So

429
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:33,974
it was really confusing to me I couldn't

430
00:20:33,974 --> 00:20:37,974
understand it because I had little into no

431
00:20:37,974 --> 00:20:41,526
understanding of abuse And also I want to

432
00:20:41,526 --> 00:20:42,666
say the Christian culture contributed to

433
00:20:42,666 --> 00:20:45,258
that but I also want to say Middle East

434
00:20:45,258 --> 00:20:47,930
Sometimes as that woman in Middle East you

435
00:20:47,930 --> 00:20:54,814
are taught to put up with a lot in

436
00:20:54,814 --> 00:20:58,190
marriage and kind of learn that it's just

437
00:20:58,190 --> 00:21:00,106
marriage And of course I was deathly

438
00:21:00,106 --> 00:21:03,978
afraid of divorce as I know many people in

439
00:21:03,978 --> 00:21:05,378
from that region are.A lot of people

440
00:21:05,378 --> 00:21:08,606
outside of Middle East are But as a Middle

441
00:21:08,606 --> 00:21:12,434
Eastern an I know that's such a fear of

442
00:21:12,434 --> 00:21:16,510
having that mark of divorce on you And so

443
00:21:16,510 --> 00:21:18,418
I didn't really see an option out of my

444
00:21:18,418 --> 00:21:20,006
marriage But really God gave me the

445
00:21:20,006 --> 00:21:21,254
strength I became strong.God showed me the

446
00:21:21,254 --> 00:21:23,526
strength that he had built in me Because

447
00:21:23,526 --> 00:21:24,918
when my husband started calling me names I

448
00:21:24,918 --> 00:21:27,974
drew boundary And again at that time I

449
00:21:27,974 --> 00:21:31,766
didn't know it was abuse I said if you

450
00:21:31,766 --> 00:21:34,874
can't be nice to me don't call me from

451
00:21:34,874 --> 00:21:37,354
prison And he actually stopped calling me

452
00:21:37,354 --> 00:21:39,546
a which was really embarrassing because

453
00:21:39,546 --> 00:21:43,438
when the Americans were released from Iran

454
00:21:43,438 --> 00:21:46,494
American hostages I had every media at my

455
00:21:46,494 --> 00:21:50,222
house.I had Reuters I had NPR I had local

456
00:21:50,222 --> 00:21:53,986
and they're waiting for Said to call me

457
00:21:53,986 --> 00:21:57,010
And he's calling everyone else There's

458
00:21:57,010 --> 00:22:01,822
stuff popping up on media Like he just a

459
00:22:01,822 --> 00:22:04,914
Franklin a He just called Jay Seculo.And

460
00:22:04,914 --> 00:22:07,926
it was so as a his wife that had fought to

461
00:22:07,926 --> 00:22:13,046
get him out he did not So my first

462
00:22:13,046 --> 00:22:15,062
boundary was don't a me I didn't say don't

463
00:22:15,062 --> 00:22:20,258
call me I said if you can't be nice to me

464
00:22:20,258 --> 00:22:22,310
And he didn't like that.So no phone call

465
00:22:22,310 --> 00:22:27,082
at all And as the phone calls to I was so

466
00:22:27,082 --> 00:22:29,034
emotionally attached to him I was breaking

467
00:22:29,034 --> 00:22:31,254
down because there was a part of me that

468
00:22:31,254 --> 00:22:33,614
just really wanted to call him back and

469
00:22:33,614 --> 00:22:36,398
really talk to him And so Iran just kind

470
00:22:36,398 --> 00:22:39,086
of threw up in front of this pastor I was

471
00:22:39,086 --> 00:22:41,054
speaking at a church and I was really

472
00:22:41,054 --> 00:22:45,458
struggling.I hadn't talked to Said for a

473
00:22:45,458 --> 00:22:48,786
week I had drawn my first boundary I felt

474
00:22:48,786 --> 00:22:53,554
guilty about it He's in prison Why did I

475
00:22:53,554 --> 00:22:57,138
tell him not to call back And so I just

476
00:22:57,138 --> 00:22:59,046
kind of threw up in front of this pastor

477
00:22:59,046 --> 00:23:02,774
Not throw up throw up But I was like I was

478
00:23:02,774 --> 00:23:06,214
like I don't know what to do And here's my

479
00:23:06,214 --> 00:23:07,960
phone He's sending me all these

480
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:15,334
messages.And I was like this is how he's

481
00:23:15,334 --> 00:23:17,434
it's been from the beginning of our

482
00:23:17,434 --> 00:23:20,422
marriage I just kind of told him

483
00:23:20,422 --> 00:23:24,926
everything And gave lot of times in every

484
00:23:24,926 --> 00:23:25,966
culture when something a in your marriage

485
00:23:25,966 --> 00:23:28,206
you don't tell even your parents because

486
00:23:28,206 --> 00:23:29,406
you think if our relationship mends then

487
00:23:29,406 --> 00:23:32,462
the still going to hate everything I had

488
00:23:32,462 --> 00:23:35,310
not told I just told this pastor.I just

489
00:23:35,310 --> 00:23:37,746
gave him everything And I knew this pastor

490
00:23:37,746 --> 00:23:39,906
Loved said he had called Said a hero And

491
00:23:39,906 --> 00:23:42,994
so his pastor was really shocked But he

492
00:23:42,994 --> 00:23:45,778
gave me break diagnosis He said this is

493
00:23:45,778 --> 00:23:49,334
really shocking.Say it's towards hero And

494
00:23:49,334 --> 00:23:51,126
he said but you're an abused wife And so

495
00:23:51,126 --> 00:23:55,734
when I got that a I read a lot of I just

496
00:23:55,734 --> 00:23:57,746
ordered my whole world blew up because I

497
00:23:57,746 --> 00:23:59,574
realized wow this prison. not like a

498
00:23:59,574 --> 00:24:01,226
normal problem in a relationship like a

499
00:24:01,226 --> 00:24:03,798
headache where you take Advil or Tylenol

500
00:24:03,798 --> 00:24:05,866
This is like cancer that needs to go

501
00:24:05,866 --> 00:24:07,514
through chemo This is not about normal

502
00:24:07,514 --> 00:24:11,018
marriage issue.And so I studied a lot

503
00:24:11,018 --> 00:24:12,398
about Narcissism That's the first time I

504
00:24:12,398 --> 00:24:15,566
heard about the word about abuse And so I

505
00:24:15,566 --> 00:24:19,806
shared with a small group of people like I

506
00:24:19,806 --> 00:24:23,034
emailed and I said I think I'm an abused

507
00:24:23,034 --> 00:24:25,554
wife might have been throughout our

508
00:24:25,554 --> 00:24:28,766
marriage And within hours I had every me

509
00:24:28,766 --> 00:24:31,026
calling me It was leaked to media and said

510
00:24:31,026 --> 00:24:32,994
was still in prison at that time.And one

511
00:24:32,994 --> 00:24:37,906
of the bullies that called me and told me

512
00:24:37,906 --> 00:24:40,214
to be quiet was Franklin Graham And he

513
00:24:40,214 --> 00:24:41,926
really didn't want the story to get out He

514
00:24:41,926 --> 00:24:44,118
said it would damage the cause of

515
00:24:44,118 --> 00:24:46,822
Christianity and that my husband was a

516
00:24:46,822 --> 00:24:51,658
hero understanding that if I was quiet I

517
00:24:51,658 --> 00:24:54,346
was going to have so much I could have so

518
00:24:54,346 --> 00:24:58,838
much fame and money and ministry But at a

519
00:24:58,838 --> 00:25:01,678
time I saw it for what it was and it seems

520
00:25:01,678 --> 00:25:05,440
like that I acted foolishly and I tore

521
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,126
everything down I really lost

522
00:25:08,126 --> 00:25:09,566
everything.But actually it was the best

523
00:25:09,566 --> 00:25:12,926
thing that happened to us We became free

524
00:25:12,926 --> 00:25:14,302
from that lot of that celebrity Christian

525
00:25:14,302 --> 00:25:16,090
culture My children became free of it and

526
00:25:16,090 --> 00:25:19,394
we went back to a normal life which a so

527
00:25:19,394 --> 00:25:21,570
good for me and the children.I've read

528
00:25:21,570 --> 00:25:23,218
your story I've heard your story You

529
00:25:23,218 --> 00:25:26,934
shared this also in your book and you

530
00:25:26,934 --> 00:25:29,430
shared it on the stage at Restore

531
00:25:29,430 --> 00:25:31,286
conference And every me the part about

532
00:25:31,286 --> 00:25:34,534
Franklin Graham comes just I don't know

533
00:25:34,534 --> 00:25:37,554
him But hey Franklin if you're listening

534
00:25:37,554 --> 00:25:39,526
to this podcast you owe that repair to my

535
00:25:39,526 --> 00:25:41,354
friend Nagme because it's so inappropriate

536
00:25:41,354 --> 00:25:43,594
what he and it's I wish it were the only

537
00:25:43,594 --> 00:25:45,926
story I'd ever he similar stopped this but

538
00:25:45,926 --> 00:25:47,994
altogether, darvo situation where they

539
00:25:47,994 --> 00:25:52,590
victim blame and this is part of the

540
00:25:52,590 --> 00:25:56,638
culture at large in the United at is but

541
00:25:56,638 --> 00:25:58,586
it's extremely powerful in celebrity

542
00:25:58,586 --> 00:26:01,098
church culture and domestic violence is

543
00:26:01,098 --> 00:26:02,862
often covered up and women are blamed and

544
00:26:02,862 --> 00:26:06,466
women are told to just suck it up and go

545
00:26:06,466 --> 00:26:10,158
back to the marriage and be quiet In your

546
00:26:10,158 --> 00:26:12,814
case your speaking out so Was.Going to and

547
00:26:12,814 --> 00:26:14,466
maybe Franklin's perspective affect him

548
00:26:14,466 --> 00:26:17,026
somehow but how dare he center himself

549
00:26:17,026 --> 00:26:19,366
when you are the one that needed care And

550
00:26:19,366 --> 00:26:20,706
so I once again don't know if Franklin

551
00:26:20,706 --> 00:26:22,534
listens to this podcast or if any of you

552
00:26:22,534 --> 00:26:25,622
listening have the ear of Franklin Graham

553
00:26:25,622 --> 00:26:29,062
but he owes Nagme calls serious repair and

554
00:26:29,062 --> 00:26:32,214
reparations for what he did to her and her

555
00:26:32,214 --> 00:26:33,546
family Because that's a for anyone but

556
00:26:33,546 --> 00:26:34,666
especially somebody who claims to follow

557
00:26:34,666 --> 00:26:37,002
Christ and to be talk leader in this

558
00:26:37,002 --> 00:26:38,586
community And I'm just so heartbroken with

559
00:26:38,586 --> 00:26:40,586
you that at a time you Needed people to

560
00:26:40,586 --> 00:26:42,678
believe you and surround you and care for

561
00:26:42,678 --> 00:26:44,906
you.Instead they were making you into the

562
00:26:44,906 --> 00:26:46,586
villain And so from that experience what

563
00:26:46,586 --> 00:26:48,926
did you learn from that How are you

564
00:26:48,926 --> 00:26:49,934
processing that now That was pretty

565
00:26:49,934 --> 00:26:51,726
traumatic because Franklin was just not a

566
00:26:51,726 --> 00:26:53,166
big name like Billy Graham's son He had

567
00:26:53,166 --> 00:26:54,158
become a really good friend.He would often

568
00:26:54,158 --> 00:26:56,866
send his private jet and he would take me

569
00:26:56,866 --> 00:26:59,746
to the Billy Graham center to speak or to

570
00:26:59,746 --> 00:27:02,706
the Samaritan's purse And he really turned

571
00:27:02,706 --> 00:27:04,706
on me in an unexpected and he actually his

572
00:27:04,706 --> 00:27:07,174
first accusation at me was that I was an

573
00:27:07,174 --> 00:27:10,354
adulteress that in some way I was throwing

574
00:27:10,354 --> 00:27:12,594
said under the bus because I was cheating

575
00:27:12,594 --> 00:27:15,846
don't him and I was wanting to move on

576
00:27:15,846 --> 00:27:17,718
with another person It's so outrageous

577
00:27:17,718 --> 00:27:24,554
which was so crazy And it broke me and I

578
00:27:24,554 --> 00:27:28,346
just cried I was like why would you say I

579
00:27:28,346 --> 00:27:29,946
committed adultery And interesting enough

580
00:27:29,946 --> 00:27:32,026
recently and over the a I've wanted a

581
00:27:32,026 --> 00:27:34,654
friendship So what I share about Franklin

582
00:27:34,654 --> 00:27:37,226
is like seven years out It's not like he

583
00:27:37,226 --> 00:27:39,866
did this And then I was like I was quiet I

584
00:27:39,866 --> 00:27:42,382
kept privately messaging him like hey you

585
00:27:42,382 --> 00:27:44,994
really have picked the wrong yeah I know

586
00:27:44,994 --> 00:27:47,822
you don't like let's try to get you to

587
00:27:47,822 --> 00:27:49,314
understand.His sister and Graham lots

588
00:27:49,314 --> 00:27:52,898
tried to explain things to him And then

589
00:27:52,898 --> 00:27:56,306
recently I think about take year ago the

590
00:27:56,306 --> 00:27:57,666
Washington posted a story on this whole

591
00:27:57,666 --> 00:27:59,158
Franklin Graham thing And what surprised

592
00:27:59,158 --> 00:28:03,846
me the most was he doubled down and he

593
00:28:03,846 --> 00:28:06,022
said yes I called her an adulteress and

594
00:28:06,022 --> 00:28:13,674
yes I would do it again And I was like you

595
00:28:13,674 --> 00:28:15,946
could have said like I learned my lesson I

596
00:28:15,946 --> 00:28:17,046
understand abuse more now.I've seen how

597
00:28:17,046 --> 00:28:20,410
things have played out in the last six

598
00:28:20,410 --> 00:28:23,614
seven years No I just didn't know better

599
00:28:23,614 --> 00:28:27,006
But for him to double down was so if

600
00:28:27,006 --> 00:28:30,126
there's any part of him that ever repents

601
00:28:30,126 --> 00:28:31,838
and wants to step into being and advocate

602
00:28:31,838 --> 00:28:36,562
for the abuse that would be wonderful I am

603
00:28:36,562 --> 00:28:38,386
really in I would love to have him use his

604
00:28:38,386 --> 00:28:40,980
voice instead of suppressing the abused to

605
00:28:40,980 --> 00:28:47,086
lift them up husband to give him the

606
00:28:47,086 --> 00:28:48,838
platform that he has.I would love for

607
00:28:48,838 --> 00:28:51,526
Franklin Graham to give the platform that

608
00:28:51,526 --> 00:28:55,750
he has for abused women and those who've

609
00:28:55,750 --> 00:28:57,446
been abused by the church to speak and

610
00:28:57,446 --> 00:28:59,980
bring awareness and teach the church

611
00:28:59,980 --> 00:29:04,010
There's so much the abuse can teach the

612
00:29:04,010 --> 00:29:07,066
church Yeah anytime he wants to do that

613
00:29:07,066 --> 00:29:08,986
that would be I'm open I don't think he

614
00:29:08,986 --> 00:29:13,766
likes became right now but I do like him I

615
00:29:13,766 --> 00:29:18,870
don't like him but I don't hate him.People

616
00:29:18,870 --> 00:29:21,134
think I came out a I have like this I

617
00:29:21,134 --> 00:29:27,986
don't hate him I'm not mad at him but I

618
00:29:27,986 --> 00:29:30,834
would love for him to repent of the way he

619
00:29:30,834 --> 00:29:32,046
thinks That's actually his way of thinking

620
00:29:32,046 --> 00:29:35,566
is Harming the and I mean you know we have

621
00:29:35,566 --> 00:29:37,894
Franklin the scriptures that we hold dear

622
00:29:37,894 --> 00:29:39,922
the story of Zacchaeus He went and made it

623
00:29:39,922 --> 00:29:42,806
gave he made a when he realized.And so any

624
00:29:42,806 --> 00:29:47,206
day we wake up is a chance to realize we

625
00:29:47,206 --> 00:29:50,442
were wrong and to go and make it right And

626
00:29:50,442 --> 00:29:56,026
that's what we are called to do And I do

627
00:29:56,026 --> 00:29:57,786
hope he finds that moment But I love that

628
00:29:57,786 --> 00:30:02,266
in your heart whether or not that ever

629
00:30:02,266 --> 00:30:08,510
happens you can move on and you can move

630
00:30:08,510 --> 00:30:11,246
forward by moving forward You are an

631
00:30:11,246 --> 00:30:12,206
amazing strong smart articulate strong

632
00:30:12,206 --> 00:30:13,346
with ancestors who are strong.And I just

633
00:30:13,346 --> 00:30:16,434
think that it is so beautiful to see the

634
00:30:16,434 --> 00:30:23,278
beauty from the ashes that has come But at

635
00:30:23,278 --> 00:30:26,530
the same time there's a part of you that

636
00:30:26,530 --> 00:30:29,106
didn't really survive And that's why you

637
00:30:29,106 --> 00:30:31,170
titled your book this way talk about how

638
00:30:31,170 --> 00:30:32,726
you settled on that title and really kind

639
00:30:32,726 --> 00:30:34,646
of what it means to you Yeah I didn't

640
00:30:34,646 --> 00:30:38,690
survive I look at he person I a had to let

641
00:30:38,690 --> 00:30:41,034
go of what lot of my way of thinking of

642
00:30:41,034 --> 00:30:44,058
whether it came from my culture.Having

643
00:30:44,058 --> 00:30:46,186
been raised the first nine years of my

644
00:30:46,186 --> 00:30:48,186
life in a Islamic revolution culture where

645
00:30:48,186 --> 00:30:50,106
women were being shut down and women were

646
00:30:50,106 --> 00:30:51,834
being told that they cannot do certain

647
00:30:51,834 --> 00:30:53,134
things whether the Christian culture that

648
00:30:53,134 --> 00:30:58,254
also said I was to submit And I was to be

649
00:30:58,254 --> 00:31:01,646
a helper And I was to have a quiet and

650
00:31:01,646 --> 00:31:04,542
peaceful spirit and never speak up or be

651
00:31:04,542 --> 00:31:07,650
loud or try to tell men what to do And

652
00:31:07,650 --> 00:31:10,514
that's the culture I was raised in And it

653
00:31:10,514 --> 00:31:13,074
actually worked perfectly with my Middle

654
00:31:13,074 --> 00:31:15,206
Eastern culture.I was like oh really God

655
00:31:15,206 --> 00:31:17,494
had to break me free from all of that

656
00:31:17,494 --> 00:31:20,534
wrong understanding God values women God

657
00:31:20,534 --> 00:31:24,454
he equal I think they're more honored You

658
00:31:24,454 --> 00:31:27,766
see him honoring woman in such at way.You

659
00:31:27,766 --> 00:31:29,206
see Jesus giving great revelations of

660
00:31:29,206 --> 00:31:31,306
worship to the woman by the well to these

661
00:31:31,306 --> 00:31:34,058
women that were there at his grave at his

662
00:31:34,058 --> 00:31:36,678
tomb the revelation of his on I mean I

663
00:31:36,678 --> 00:31:40,426
think he actually played was little bit of

664
00:31:40,426 --> 00:31:42,134
it in the way he honored women in was

665
00:31:42,134 --> 00:31:44,554
culture middle Eastern culture those who

666
00:31:44,554 --> 00:31:47,966
understand understand where women eat in

667
00:31:47,966 --> 00:31:49,790
and different room they sit in a different

668
00:31:49,790 --> 00:31:52,094
room For him to be with them in the same

669
00:31:52,094 --> 00:31:54,386
room and to honor he and talk to them and

670
00:31:54,386 --> 00:31:56,466
have theological discussions about worship

671
00:31:56,466 --> 00:31:59,746
with them.That's not who God is And the

672
00:31:59,746 --> 00:32:02,910
old me didn't survive There was a new me

673
00:32:02,910 --> 00:32:04,994
that emerged from that rediscovering and

674
00:32:04,994 --> 00:32:07,326
understanding who God really sister not

675
00:32:07,326 --> 00:32:11,382
what I was to And seeing how much he

676
00:32:11,382 --> 00:32:13,078
empowered me to be about voice he wasn't

677
00:32:13,078 --> 00:32:16,098
trying Washington shut me down and say you

678
00:32:16,098 --> 00:32:18,582
just need to be what little more gentle

679
00:32:18,582 --> 00:32:21,482
and was little more soft which it's good

680
00:32:21,482 --> 00:32:23,546
for us to be But speaking out about

681
00:32:23,546 --> 00:32:24,746
injustice and speaking out about abuse or

682
00:32:24,746 --> 00:32:26,810
not submitting to abuse doesn't mean we're

683
00:32:26,810 --> 00:32:30,226
not that we're not gentle.But there's

684
00:32:30,226 --> 00:32:32,586
abuse time where you are supposed to speak

685
00:32:32,586 --> 00:32:36,606
out and in to any form of abuse or

686
00:32:36,606 --> 00:32:38,398
corruption or actually doesn't honor God

687
00:32:38,398 --> 00:32:42,782
at all And that was the understanding So I

688
00:32:42,782 --> 00:32:46,770
kind of through the cocoon of suffering I

689
00:32:46,770 --> 00:32:49,134
turned to a different creature an

690
00:32:49,134 --> 00:32:51,970
butterfly.And I also had to trust in the

691
00:32:51,970 --> 00:32:54,754
abilities God had given me to fly to move

692
00:32:54,754 --> 00:32:59,154
forward and not second guess and say am I

693
00:32:59,154 --> 00:33:01,126
crazy Do I really have the ability to

694
00:33:01,126 --> 00:33:03,062
think properly or convey ideas properly

695
00:33:03,062 --> 00:33:05,238
Which was like how my husband had shut me

696
00:33:05,238 --> 00:33:07,826
down I didn't even trust in my own

697
00:33:07,826 --> 00:33:10,522
emotions If I cried the would say you're

698
00:33:10,522 --> 00:33:13,546
trying to manipulate.And I was like am I

699
00:33:13,546 --> 00:33:16,682
trying to manipulate But I'm really sad So

700
00:33:16,682 --> 00:33:18,874
he wouldn't even let me be sad He was

701
00:33:18,874 --> 00:33:21,030
saying by my tears I was trying to

702
00:33:21,030 --> 00:33:23,120
manipulate other people around me or him

703
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:27,066
So it was like even questioning my own

704
00:33:27,066 --> 00:33:28,958
emotion That's how far I gotten where I

705
00:33:28,958 --> 00:33:32,506
couldn't show any emotion.I didn't survive

706
00:33:32,506 --> 00:33:34,206
I really didn't.But I didn't survive in a

707
00:33:34,206 --> 00:33:36,434
good way The old me the bound me died and

708
00:33:36,434 --> 00:33:39,374
I was set free So beautiful and so much

709
00:33:39,374 --> 00:33:41,874
hope I know that there are people

710
00:33:41,874 --> 00:33:43,762
listening to this who currently are

711
00:33:43,762 --> 00:33:45,614
experiencing abuse and maybe even domestic

712
00:33:45,614 --> 00:33:48,694
violence I know that emotional abuse is he

713
00:33:48,694 --> 00:33:52,806
kind that gets in your head.Having been

714
00:33:52,806 --> 00:33:54,674
one who experienced that at the a of a

715
00:33:54,674 --> 00:33:56,294
couple of celebrity pastors and behind

716
00:33:56,294 --> 00:33:58,246
closed doors in ways that he said she said

717
00:33:58,246 --> 00:33:59,926
And so who's going to be believed The one

718
00:33:59,926 --> 00:34:03,834
with the bigger platform And so when you

719
00:34:03,834 --> 00:34:05,898
have those power dynamics men women that

720
00:34:05,898 --> 00:34:07,434
power dynamic and then your and being seen

721
00:34:07,434 --> 00:34:13,198
as this big deal that people are trying to

722
00:34:13,198 --> 00:34:18,814
rescue him from all over the world and

723
00:34:18,814 --> 00:34:22,846
then the power dynamic of you just being a

724
00:34:22,846 --> 00:34:25,514
woman and being his wife like very

725
00:34:25,514 --> 00:34:27,602
different dynamic that can play into that

726
00:34:27,602 --> 00:34:30,766
And so there's a people listening I'm sure

727
00:34:30,766 --> 00:34:32,366
even women who might be being abused

728
00:34:32,366 --> 00:34:34,226
either in an Islamic context or in a

729
00:34:34,226 --> 00:34:35,678
Christian context or any context what

730
00:34:35,678 --> 00:34:37,080
would you say to that woman listening

731
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:43,526
right now that doesn't know how to get

732
00:34:43,526 --> 00:34:44,966
free.Or doesn't even know they might be

733
00:34:44,966 --> 00:34:47,174
Because probably I recently read a book

734
00:34:47,174 --> 00:34:51,146
called about your body Keeps Yeah I've

735
00:34:51,146 --> 00:34:56,154
read that Like that Yeah.Your body starts

736
00:34:56,154 --> 00:34:57,882
telling you something's wrong you are down

737
00:34:57,882 --> 00:35:00,614
you're depressed There's anxiety even

738
00:35:00,614 --> 00:35:04,094
before you can put the word abuse to it If

739
00:35:04,094 --> 00:35:08,142
it's not physical of course physical

740
00:35:08,142 --> 00:35:09,582
anything physical Christian definitely

741
00:35:09,582 --> 00:35:11,274
abuse Unfortunately having been raised in

742
00:35:11,274 --> 00:35:14,180
a lot of the Middle Eastern culture even

743
00:35:14,180 --> 00:35:16,094
that was questionable But physical for

744
00:35:16,094 --> 00:35:18,562
sure.But emotional psychological is so

745
00:35:18,562 --> 00:35:21,954
hard to see So the abuser's goal is to

746
00:35:21,954 --> 00:35:24,466
control you And so they might use

747
00:35:24,466 --> 00:35:25,894
emotional abuse verbal abuse The Bible as

748
00:35:25,894 --> 00:35:28,950
a Christian the Bible says our words have

749
00:35:28,950 --> 00:35:37,834
the power to kill or bring life So as

750
00:35:37,834 --> 00:35:39,530
Christians we should really give value to

751
00:35:39,530 --> 00:35:45,286
verbal abuse.That's a big deal We

752
00:35:45,286 --> 00:35:51,094
shouldn't be like oh that was just verbal

753
00:35:51,094 --> 00:35:52,974
abuse Because the Bible says it brings

754
00:35:52,974 --> 00:35:56,110
life or death emotional abuse

755
00:35:56,110 --> 00:35:58,446
psychological abuse and using religion

756
00:35:58,446 --> 00:36:01,102
like God to have you submit in spiritual

757
00:36:01,102 --> 00:36:04,846
abuse And so I know that as a Christian

758
00:36:04,846 --> 00:36:06,810
those institutions of marriage or church

759
00:36:06,810 --> 00:36:09,826
were put there to protect and nourish and

760
00:36:09,826 --> 00:36:13,730
nurture and actually help you fly he you

761
00:36:13,730 --> 00:36:17,538
be the best person you can be and not to

762
00:36:17,538 --> 00:36:19,974
squash you and confuse you a cause all

763
00:36:19,974 --> 00:36:23,174
this darkness to come over you So if any

764
00:36:23,174 --> 00:36:24,758
institution whether it's a marriage or

765
00:36:24,758 --> 00:36:26,934
work or religious institution or church

766
00:36:26,934 --> 00:36:29,014
that's not helping you thrive.It's

767
00:36:29,014 --> 00:36:35,034
actually you feel like you're dying inside

768
00:36:35,034 --> 00:36:37,654
You feel this confusion God is not God of

769
00:36:37,654 --> 00:36:39,242
confusion You feel this darkness You're

770
00:36:39,242 --> 00:36:43,054
just really like you maybe repeat to

771
00:36:43,054 --> 00:36:48,126
yourself like I just want to I wish I was

772
00:36:48,126 --> 00:36:51,934
just not alive This feeling despair then

773
00:36:51,934 --> 00:36:53,786
there's something wrong and you need to

774
00:36:53,786 --> 00:36:55,358
get out of that institution And God cares

775
00:36:55,358 --> 00:36:56,706
more about you than you trying to keep

776
00:36:56,706 --> 00:36:58,786
that institution intact So whether it's

777
00:36:58,786 --> 00:37:01,874
things coming out in a church or in a

778
00:37:01,874 --> 00:37:04,046
religious environment or in abuse home and

779
00:37:04,046 --> 00:37:06,338
you're like well if this comes out then

780
00:37:06,338 --> 00:37:09,574
the marriage is going to a apart it's okay

781
00:37:09,574 --> 00:37:11,794
The person's more important.You are more

782
00:37:11,794 --> 00:37:14,578
important than the institution And as a

783
00:37:14,578 --> 00:37:18,346
know I believe God came to save the person

784
00:37:18,346 --> 00:37:20,474
Jesus came to save the person not an.I

785
00:37:20,474 --> 00:37:23,946
think your body starts feeling things even

786
00:37:23,946 --> 00:37:29,942
before you can put the word abuse to it

787
00:37:29,942 --> 00:37:34,574
And you're not in You're not being the

788
00:37:34,574 --> 00:37:38,622
best that you can be that God created you

789
00:37:38,622 --> 00:37:42,414
to be You're actually being kind of pushed

790
00:37:42,414 --> 00:37:45,466
down and you feel fog of confusion and

791
00:37:45,466 --> 00:37:49,486
darkness and you don't know what it is And

792
00:37:49,486 --> 00:37:52,002
you're like Am I crazy I this real God is

793
00:37:52,002 --> 00:37:54,606
God of clarity So I would say if there's

794
00:37:54,606 --> 00:37:56,834
any of that going on if someone would have

795
00:37:56,834 --> 00:37:59,606
said if any of that's going on in your

796
00:37:59,606 --> 00:38:01,686
mind nogma look into abuse look up that

797
00:38:01,686 --> 00:38:03,794
word and see if that's what you're under I

798
00:38:03,794 --> 00:38:06,438
would start with that I would tell people

799
00:38:06,438 --> 00:38:09,574
that that's so good Yeah.There is so much

800
00:38:09,574 --> 00:38:11,882
more research now on the brain and how our

801
00:38:11,882 --> 00:38:21,262
right brain is perceiving a lot of that

802
00:38:21,262 --> 00:38:23,102
before we're cognitively aware of it in

803
00:38:23,102 --> 00:38:29,134
the other side of the left brain And so it

804
00:38:29,134 --> 00:38:33,042
is our body taking in all those messages

805
00:38:33,042 --> 00:38:34,098
our autonomic nervous systems are

806
00:38:34,098 --> 00:38:37,250
responding to Is this person emotionally

807
00:38:37,250 --> 00:38:40,814
safe based on every other interaction I've

808
00:38:40,814 --> 00:38:44,546
had with them And our bodies are keeping

809
00:38:44,546 --> 00:38:46,642
that data so we're not fully cognizant of

810
00:38:46,642 --> 00:38:48,262
it And I think that why paying attention

811
00:38:48,262 --> 00:38:50,662
to our bodies is so important.It's and

812
00:38:50,662 --> 00:38:52,806
message we don't give often in

813
00:38:52,806 --> 00:38:56,038
evangelicalism In fact we say the opposite

814
00:38:56,038 --> 00:38:57,398
Don't trust your body When women's bodies

815
00:38:57,398 --> 00:38:58,918
are a threat you're constantly having

816
00:38:58,918 --> 00:39:02,534
these weird messages and so I think it is

817
00:39:02,534 --> 00:39:04,634
more challenging in those situations Or

818
00:39:04,634 --> 00:39:06,538
like you said in Islam where cover up your

819
00:39:06,538 --> 00:39:08,202
body.It's like an attempt man There's the

820
00:39:08,202 --> 00:39:10,282
nine parts of desire So that's really good

821
00:39:10,282 --> 00:39:12,506
advice And the last thing I want to give

822
00:39:12,506 --> 00:39:15,294
you an opportunity to speak to is what if

823
00:39:15,294 --> 00:39:17,390
there's a pastor in a church a congregant

824
00:39:17,390 --> 00:39:19,600
anybody in a church position where

825
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:22,694
somebody comes out and says either my a

826
00:39:22,694 --> 00:39:26,274
abusing me the pastor is abusing me Any

827
00:39:26,274 --> 00:39:28,514
forms of abuse whether it's emotional

828
00:39:28,514 --> 00:39:30,578
financial verbal physical sexual anything

829
00:39:30,578 --> 00:39:36,254
what would you say to that person in a

830
00:39:36,254 --> 00:39:39,734
church environment when they've been

831
00:39:39,734 --> 00:39:43,922
taught to just always believe the people

832
00:39:43,922 --> 00:39:48,538
in power Yeah be careful that you're not

833
00:39:48,538 --> 00:39:51,914
trying to save the power or the

834
00:39:51,914 --> 00:39:54,102
institution because that's anti biblical

835
00:39:54,102 --> 00:39:57,386
So anxiety lot of times pastors won't

836
00:39:57,386 --> 00:39:59,114
touch a marriage Even though the woman's

837
00:39:59,114 --> 00:40:01,614
like I'm being abused they're like because

838
00:40:01,614 --> 00:40:05,758
they're like I don't want this marriage to

839
00:40:05,758 --> 00:40:08,970
a apart That's not your job Your job is to

840
00:40:08,970 --> 00:40:11,754
rescue the person that's claiming abuse

841
00:40:11,754 --> 00:40:14,266
which it's very rare for someone to

842
00:40:14,266 --> 00:40:17,426
falsely claim abuser's because it is very

843
00:40:17,426 --> 00:40:18,962
know.I remember when Lorianne Thompson

844
00:40:18,962 --> 00:40:23,106
first came out about it and I went to my

845
00:40:23,106 --> 00:40:25,314
church and I said I don't want any ravi's

846
00:40:25,314 --> 00:40:28,034
teachings here anymore And they're like

847
00:40:28,034 --> 00:40:32,306
Why And I was like this woman's coming out

848
00:40:32,306 --> 00:40:34,214
about it They're like oh they're saying

849
00:40:34,214 --> 00:40:36,374
she's lying It's just why would someone

850
00:40:36,374 --> 00:40:39,078
lie and have their whole life torn apart

851
00:40:39,078 --> 00:40:41,450
and destroyed and their livelihood taken

852
00:40:41,450 --> 00:40:46,854
It is so rare for someone to come out

853
00:40:46,854 --> 00:40:51,774
about abuse. especially about a person in

854
00:40:51,774 --> 00:40:56,814
power or in a marriage where their

855
00:40:56,814 --> 00:41:00,974
marriage would fall apart and just going

856
00:41:00,974 --> 00:41:04,622
through that pain of children custody So I

857
00:41:04,622 --> 00:41:06,946
would say don't jump into conclusion First

858
00:41:06,946 --> 00:41:09,842
of all listen to the one who's claiming

859
00:41:09,842 --> 00:41:13,554
abuse Let it get them to a place of safety

860
00:41:13,554 --> 00:41:15,986
And don't try to worry about whether

861
00:41:15,986 --> 00:41:19,954
institution.What will happen if this news

862
00:41:19,954 --> 00:41:25,222
comes out to the church Your job is not to

863
00:41:25,222 --> 00:41:28,390
keep an institution intact or the marriage

864
00:41:28,390 --> 00:41:31,434
intact Your job especially as is we're

865
00:41:31,434 --> 00:41:34,330
called we are to protect the voiceless the

866
00:41:34,330 --> 00:41:36,602
innocent the oppressed Your job is to

867
00:41:36,602 --> 00:41:38,198
protect them Now if the church falls to

868
00:41:38,198 --> 00:41:39,914
pieces that's between it's.God is not

869
00:41:39,914 --> 00:41:42,858
worried about the church falling into

870
00:41:42,858 --> 00:41:44,206
pieces or marriage falling to pieces God

871
00:41:44,206 --> 00:41:46,302
is worried about god is concerned of

872
00:41:46,302 --> 00:41:48,282
rescuing the person So if you want to

873
00:41:48,282 --> 00:41:51,166
honor God go rescue the person Be out in

874
00:41:51,166 --> 00:41:56,146
the person If in is preventing you from in

875
00:41:56,146 --> 00:41:57,954
to this person and helping them really

876
00:41:57,954 --> 00:41:59,346
seek really think about why.Is it because

877
00:41:59,346 --> 00:42:01,934
you're so afraid of the institution being

878
00:42:01,934 --> 00:42:03,890
affected by it whether marriage more

879
00:42:03,890 --> 00:42:07,046
church So if that's where you're going be

880
00:42:07,046 --> 00:42:08,630
careful You might be following the steps

881
00:42:08,630 --> 00:42:10,070
of pharisees and religious leaders that

882
00:42:10,070 --> 00:42:18,918
Jesus rebuked because they were so

883
00:42:18,918 --> 00:42:21,062
concerned about protecting the institution

884
00:42:21,062 --> 00:42:22,634
of Sabbath that they were like oh

885
00:42:22,634 --> 00:42:25,274
someone's it's like we don't want to help

886
00:42:25,274 --> 00:42:27,402
to God's like are you kidding Like the

887
00:42:27,402 --> 00:42:29,690
institution was set there for the person

888
00:42:29,690 --> 00:42:31,866
It's always about helping the person.Yes

889
00:42:31,866 --> 00:42:34,358
And if somehow you're walking by darkness

890
00:42:34,358 --> 00:42:35,694
broken person and you're not helping them

891
00:42:35,694 --> 00:42:37,374
be careful that you're not the religious

892
00:42:37,374 --> 00:42:40,606
leaders that Jesus called out that is so

893
00:42:40,606 --> 00:42:41,726
concerned about the institution that

894
00:42:41,726 --> 00:42:43,086
they're willing to see someone waste away

895
00:42:43,086 --> 00:42:44,654
whether in said church So that's what I

896
00:42:44,654 --> 00:42:47,794
would say to pastors be careful Make sure

897
00:42:47,794 --> 00:42:49,026
you're not so concerned about the

898
00:42:49,026 --> 00:42:49,938
institution whether it's marriage or

899
00:42:49,938 --> 00:42:51,074
someone claiming abuse by that. religious

900
00:42:51,074 --> 00:42:55,906
leader and really do the call that God has

901
00:42:55,906 --> 00:42:57,982
called you to do which to protect the

902
00:42:57,982 --> 00:43:00,786
press And it might be costly.It might

903
00:43:00,786 --> 00:43:03,158
require you to lay down your life and you

904
00:43:03,158 --> 00:43:05,138
to lose in Well pet Well pet Yeah people

905
00:43:05,138 --> 00:43:07,766
first I mean it hard at times but it's

906
00:43:07,766 --> 00:43:11,186
kind of simple at the same time.So thank

907
00:43:11,186 --> 00:43:13,546
you for that Well how can people find you

908
00:43:13,546 --> 00:43:15,178
and your book and your writing and your

909
00:43:15,178 --> 00:43:18,406
speaking and reach out to you if they want

910
00:43:18,406 --> 00:43:20,074
you to come Just someone actually did this

911
00:43:20,074 --> 00:43:23,626
for me Someone just did a website for me

912
00:43:23,626 --> 00:43:26,318
that a all my information and the work I

913
00:43:26,318 --> 00:43:28,174
do in the Middle East It's nagmepanahi.com

914
00:43:28,174 --> 00:43:31,658
perfect Or they can search my name a they

915
00:43:31,658 --> 00:43:33,598
will find information My social media.Yeah

916
00:43:33,598 --> 00:43:35,666
We'll link that think the show notes for

917
00:43:35,666 --> 00:43:38,338
people to find you Thank you so much for

918
00:43:38,338 --> 00:43:40,594
being on today It's been a true honor for

919
00:43:40,594 --> 00:43:43,122
me to get to know you to start our

920
00:43:43,122 --> 00:43:47,474
friendship and also just to introduce all

921
00:43:47,474 --> 00:43:48,966
these listeners to who you are really

922
00:43:48,966 --> 00:43:50,694
Thank you for being so vulnerable today

923
00:43:50,694 --> 00:43:53,718
both in your writing and a you

924
00:43:53,718 --> 00:43:56,454
shared.Thank you Lori I appreciate you and

925
00:43:56,454 --> 00:43:58,598
I appreciate this connection God has had

926
00:43:58,598 --> 00:44:00,682
abusing have Thanks for being here Nagme

927
00:44:00,682 --> 00:44:02,278
Bye Thank you.Bye undefined undefined

928
00:44:02,278 --> 00:44:05,862
undefined undefined undefined undefined

929
00:44:05,862 --> 00:44:07,466
undefined undefined undefined undefined

930
00:44:07,466 --> 00:44:08,026
undefined undefined undefined undefined

931
00:44:08,026 --> 00:44:08,886
undefined undefined undefined undefined

932
00:44:08,886 --> 00:44:10,086
undefined undefined undefined undefined

933
00:44:10,086 --> 00:44:12,640
undefined undefined undefined undefined

934
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:15,006
undefined undefined undefined undefined

935
00:44:15,006 --> 00:44:19,070
undefined undefined undefined undefined

936
00:44:19,070 --> 00:44:21,054
undefined undefined undefined undefined

937
00:44:21,054 --> 00:44:22,158
undefined undefined undefined undefined

938
00:44:22,158 --> 00:44:23,854
undefined undefined undefined undefined

939
00:44:23,854 --> 00:44:26,282
undefined undefined undefined undefined

940
00:44:26,282 --> 00:44:27,138
undefined undefined undefined undefined

941
00:44:27,138 --> 00:44:28,546
undefined undefined undefined undefined

942
00:44:28,546 --> 00:44:29,666
undefined undefined undefined undefined

943
00:44:29,666 --> 00:44:30,546
undefined undefined undefined undefined

944
00:44:30,546 --> 00:44:32,402
undefined undefined undefined undefined

945
00:44:32,402 --> 00:44:33,406
undefined undefined undefined undefined

946
00:44:33,406 --> 00:44:34,338
undefined undefined undefined undefined

947
00:44:34,338 --> 00:44:35,206
undefined undefined undefined undefined

948
00:44:35,206 --> 00:44:36,006
undefined undefined undefined undefined

949
00:44:36,006 --> 00:44:36,886
undefined undefined undefined undefined

950
00:44:36,886 --> 00:44:38,706
undefined undefined undefined undefined

951
00:44:38,706 --> 00:44:41,058
undefined undefined undefined undefined

952
00:44:41,058 --> 00:44:43,074
undefined undefined undefined undefined

953
00:44:43,074 --> 00:44:45,046
undefined undefined undefined undefined

954
00:44:45,046 --> 00:44:47,654
undefined undefined undefined undefined

955
00:44:47,654 --> 00:44:49,186
undefined undefined undefined undefined

956
00:44:49,186 --> 00:44:49,974
undefined undefined undefined undefined

957
00:44:49,974 --> 00:44:51,286
undefined undefined undefined undefined

958
00:44:51,286 --> 00:44:52,018
undefined undefined undefined undefined

959
00:44:52,018 --> 00:44:52,598
undefined undefined undefined undefined

960
00:44:52,598 --> 00:44:54,278
undefined undefined undefined undefined

961
00:44:54,278 --> 00:44:55,206
undefined undefined undefined undefined

962
00:44:55,206 --> 00:44:56,346
undefined undefined undefined undefined

963
00:44:56,346 --> 00:44:57,206
undefined undefined undefined undefined

964
00:44:57,206 --> 00:44:57,866
undefined undefined undefined undefined

965
00:44:57,866 --> 00:44:58,806
undefined undefined undefined undefined

966
00:44:58,806 --> 00:45:00,346
undefined undefined undefined undefined

967
00:45:00,346 --> 00:45:02,462
undefined undefined undefined undefined

968
00:45:02,462 --> 00:45:03,614
undefined undefined undefined undefined

969
00:45:03,614 --> 00:45:05,338
undefined undefined undefined undefined

970
00:45:05,338 --> 00:45:07,390
undefined undefined undefined undefined

971
00:45:07,390 --> 00:45:09,470
undefined undefined undefined undefined

972
00:45:09,470 --> 00:45:10,782
undefined undefined undefined undefined

973
00:45:10,782 --> 00:45:11,902
undefined undefined undefined undefined

974
00:45:11,902 --> 00:45:13,746
undefined undefined undefined undefined

975
00:45:13,746 --> 00:45:15,474
undefined undefined undefined undefined

976
00:45:15,474 --> 00:45:16,434
undefined undefined undefined undefined

977
00:45:16,434 --> 00:45:17,474
undefined undefined undefined undefined

978
00:45:17,474 --> 00:45:19,474
undefined undefined undefined undefined

979
00:45:19,474 --> 00:45:20,722
undefined undefined undefined undefined

980
00:45:20,722 --> 00:45:23,266
undefined undefined undefined undefined

981
00:45:23,266 --> 00:45:24,766
undefined undefined undefined undefined

982
00:45:24,766 --> 00:45:25,858
undefined undefined undefined undefined

983
00:45:25,858 --> 00:45:27,878
undefined undefined undefined undefined

984
00:45:27,878 --> 00:45:29,298
undefined undefined undefined undefined

985
00:45:29,298 --> 00:45:32,326
undefined undefined undefined undefined

986
00:45:32,326 --> 00:45:32,886
undefined undefined undefined undefined

987
00:45:32,886 --> 00:45:34,214
undefined undefined undefined undefined

988
00:45:34,214 --> 00:45:34,966
undefined undefined undefined undefined

989
00:45:34,966 --> 00:45:37,174
undefined undefined undefined undefined

990
00:45:37,174 --> 00:45:38,086
undefined undefined undefined undefined

991
00:45:38,086 --> 00:45:39,370
undefined undefined undefined undefined

992
00:45:39,370 --> 00:45:40,826
undefined undefined undefined undefined

993
00:45:40,826 --> 00:45:42,170
undefined undefined undefined undefined

994
00:45:42,170 --> 00:45:44,134
undefined undefined undefined undefined

995
00:45:44,134 --> 00:45:45,850
undefined undefined undefined undefined

996
00:45:45,850 --> 00:45:46,922
undefined undefined undefined undefined

997
00:45:46,922 --> 00:45:48,058
undefined undefined undefined undefined

998
00:45:48,058 --> 00:45:49,622
undefined undefined undefined undefined

999
00:45:49,622 --> 00:45:51,194
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1000
00:45:51,194 --> 00:45:52,202
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1001
00:45:52,202 --> 00:45:53,318
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1002
00:45:53,318 --> 00:45:54,854
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1003
00:45:54,854 --> 00:45:56,766
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1004
00:45:56,766 --> 00:45:57,566
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1005
00:45:57,566 --> 00:45:59,546
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1006
00:45:59,546 --> 00:46:00,526
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1007
00:46:00,526 --> 00:46:01,546
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1008
00:46:01,546 --> 00:46:03,034
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1009
00:46:03,034 --> 00:46:04,322
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1010
00:46:04,322 --> 00:46:04,978
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1011
00:46:04,978 --> 00:46:07,538
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1012
00:46:07,538 --> 00:46:08,866
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1013
00:46:08,866 --> 00:46:10,290
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1014
00:46:10,290 --> 00:46:12,142
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1015
00:46:12,142 --> 00:46:13,346
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1016
00:46:13,346 --> 00:46:14,286
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1017
00:46:14,286 --> 00:46:16,962
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1018
00:46:16,962 --> 00:46:18,486
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1019
00:46:18,486 --> 00:46:19,334
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1020
00:46:19,334 --> 00:46:20,482
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1021
00:46:20,482 --> 00:46:21,702
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1022
00:46:21,702 --> 00:46:23,138
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1023
00:46:23,138 --> 00:46:24,166
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1024
00:46:24,166 --> 00:46:25,442
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1025
00:46:25,442 --> 00:46:27,486
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1026
00:46:27,486 --> 00:46:29,014
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1027
00:46:29,014 --> 00:46:30,106
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1028
00:46:30,106 --> 00:46:32,074
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1029
00:46:32,074 --> 00:46:33,626
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1030
00:46:33,626 --> 00:46:35,114
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1031
00:46:35,114 --> 00:46:36,746
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1032
00:46:36,746 --> 00:46:39,750
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1033
00:46:39,750 --> 00:46:40,538
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1034
00:46:40,538 --> 00:46:42,506
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1035
00:46:42,506 --> 00:46:43,578
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1036
00:46:43,578 --> 00:46:45,134
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1037
00:46:45,134 --> 00:46:46,126
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1038
00:46:46,126 --> 00:46:47,582
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1039
00:46:47,582 --> 00:46:48,798
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1040
00:46:48,798 --> 00:46:49,994
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1041
00:46:49,994 --> 00:46:51,082
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1042
00:46:51,082 --> 00:46:53,534
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1043
00:46:53,534 --> 00:46:54,794
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1044
00:46:54,794 --> 00:46:56,162
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1045
00:46:56,162 --> 00:46:57,534
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1046
00:46:57,534 --> 00:46:58,914
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1047
00:46:58,914 --> 00:46:59,826
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1048
00:46:59,826 --> 00:47:01,198
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1049
00:47:01,198 --> 00:47:02,206
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1050
00:47:02,206 --> 00:47:03,106
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1051
00:47:03,106 --> 00:47:04,866
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1052
00:47:04,866 --> 00:47:05,506
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1053
00:47:05,506 --> 00:47:06,946
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1054
00:47:06,946 --> 00:47:07,918
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1055
00:47:07,918 --> 00:47:09,586
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1056
00:47:09,586 --> 00:47:10,966
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1057
00:47:10,966 --> 00:47:12,374
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1058
00:47:12,374 --> 00:47:14,422
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1059
00:47:14,422 --> 00:47:15,414
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1060
00:47:15,414 --> 00:47:16,294
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1061
00:47:16,294 --> 00:47:16,934
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1062
00:47:16,934 --> 00:47:18,310
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1063
00:47:18,310 --> 00:47:19,466
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1064
00:47:19,466 --> 00:47:21,062
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1065
00:47:21,062 --> 00:47:22,394
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1066
00:47:22,394 --> 00:47:23,562
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1067
00:47:23,562 --> 00:47:25,514
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1068
00:47:25,514 --> 00:47:27,114
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1069
00:47:27,114 --> 00:47:28,700
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1070
00:47:28,700 --> 00:47:31,882
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1071
00:47:31,882 --> 00:47:32,506
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1072
00:47:32,506 --> 00:47:33,274
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1073
00:47:33,274 --> 00:47:34,078
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1074
00:47:34,078 --> 00:47:35,726
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1075
00:47:35,726 --> 00:47:36,606
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1076
00:47:36,606 --> 00:47:37,278
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1077
00:47:37,278 --> 00:47:38,174
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1078
00:47:38,174 --> 00:47:39,118
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1079
00:47:39,118 --> 00:47:39,566
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1080
00:47:39,566 --> 00:47:40,480
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1081
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:45,106
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1082
00:47:45,106 --> 00:47:46,082
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1083
00:47:46,082 --> 00:47:47,938
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1084
00:47:47,938 --> 00:47:48,914
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1085
00:47:48,914 --> 00:47:49,986
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1086
00:47:49,986 --> 00:47:51,026
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1087
00:47:51,026 --> 00:47:52,286
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1088
00:47:52,286 --> 00:47:55,554
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1089
00:47:55,554 --> 00:47:56,354
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1090
00:47:56,354 --> 00:47:57,122
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1091
00:47:57,122 --> 00:47:59,602
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1092
00:47:59,602 --> 00:48:00,646
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1093
00:48:00,646 --> 00:48:01,126
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1094
00:48:01,126 --> 00:48:01,846
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1095
00:48:01,846 --> 00:48:02,566
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1096
00:48:02,566 --> 00:48:03,254
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1097
00:48:03,254 --> 00:48:04,566
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1098
00:48:04,566 --> 00:48:06,086
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1099
00:48:06,086 --> 00:48:07,480
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1100
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:09,218
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1101
00:48:09,218 --> 00:48:10,762
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1102
00:48:10,762 --> 00:48:12,186
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1103
00:48:12,186 --> 00:48:13,146
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1104
00:48:13,146 --> 00:48:15,466
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1105
00:48:15,466 --> 00:48:16,186
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1106
00:48:16,186 --> 00:48:18,138
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1107
00:48:18,138 --> 00:48:18,986
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1108
00:48:18,986 --> 00:48:21,726
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1109
00:48:21,726 --> 00:48:23,022
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1110
00:48:23,022 --> 00:48:24,542
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1111
00:48:24,542 --> 00:48:26,462
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1112
00:48:26,462 --> 00:48:29,166
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1113
00:48:29,166 --> 00:48:30,830
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1114
00:48:30,830 --> 00:48:35,810
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1115
00:48:35,810 --> 00:48:39,586
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1116
00:48:39,586 --> 00:48:40,286
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1117
00:48:40,286 --> 00:48:41,746
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1118
00:48:41,746 --> 00:48:42,754
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1119
00:48:42,754 --> 00:48:44,514
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1120
00:48:44,514 --> 00:48:45,138
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1121
00:48:45,138 --> 00:48:45,974
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1122
00:48:45,974 --> 00:48:47,666
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1123
00:48:47,666 --> 00:48:49,542
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1124
00:48:49,542 --> 00:48:50,486
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1125
00:48:50,486 --> 00:48:51,542
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1126
00:48:51,542 --> 00:48:53,862
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1127
00:48:53,862 --> 00:48:55,958
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1128
00:48:55,958 --> 00:48:57,414
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1129
00:48:57,414 --> 00:48:59,126
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1130
00:48:59,126 --> 00:48:59,938
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1131
00:48:59,938 --> 00:49:01,194
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1132
00:49:01,194 --> 00:49:02,154
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1133
00:49:02,154 --> 00:49:03,914
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1134
00:49:03,914 --> 00:49:05,306
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1135
00:49:05,306 --> 00:49:06,554
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1136
00:49:06,554 --> 00:49:07,674
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1137
00:49:07,674 --> 00:49:08,922
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1138
00:49:08,922 --> 00:49:11,454
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1139
00:49:11,454 --> 00:49:12,494
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1140
00:49:12,494 --> 00:49:14,080
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1141
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:16,526
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1142
00:49:16,526 --> 00:49:17,758
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1143
00:49:17,758 --> 00:49:19,594
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1144
00:49:19,594 --> 00:49:20,750
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1145
00:49:20,750 --> 00:49:22,158
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1146
00:49:22,158 --> 00:49:23,426
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1147
00:49:23,426 --> 00:49:24,754
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1148
00:49:24,754 --> 00:49:26,066
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1149
00:49:26,066 --> 00:49:27,058
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1150
00:49:27,058 --> 00:49:27,858
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1151
00:49:27,858 --> 00:49:28,786
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1152
00:49:28,786 --> 00:49:31,780
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1153
00:49:31,780 --> 00:49:35,394
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1154
00:49:35,394 --> 00:49:36,626
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1155
00:49:36,626 --> 00:49:37,326
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1156
00:49:37,326 --> 00:49:38,774
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1157
00:49:38,774 --> 00:49:39,686
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1158
00:49:39,686 --> 00:49:40,786
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1159
00:49:40,786 --> 00:49:41,746
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1160
00:49:41,746 --> 00:49:42,486
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1161
00:49:42,486 --> 00:49:44,242
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1162
00:49:44,242 --> 00:49:46,120
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1163
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:48,274
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1164
00:49:48,274 --> 00:49:50,566
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1165
00:49:50,566 --> 00:49:52,134
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1166
00:49:52,134 --> 00:49:53,382
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1167
00:49:53,382 --> 00:49:54,426
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1168
00:49:54,426 --> 00:49:55,306
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1169
00:49:55,306 --> 00:49:56,154
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1170
00:49:56,154 --> 00:49:57,034
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1171
00:49:57,034 --> 00:49:59,046
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1172
00:49:59,046 --> 00:50:00,022
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1173
00:50:00,022 --> 00:50:01,518
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1174
00:50:01,518 --> 00:50:04,606
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1175
00:50:04,606 --> 00:50:05,834
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1176
00:50:05,834 --> 00:50:07,120
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1177
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:09,866
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1178
00:50:09,866 --> 00:50:11,086
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1179
00:50:11,086 --> 00:50:12,206
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1180
00:50:12,206 --> 00:50:14,560
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1181
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:16,866
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1182
00:50:16,866 --> 00:50:17,618
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1183
00:50:17,618 --> 00:50:18,306
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1184
00:50:18,306 --> 00:50:19,634
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1185
00:50:19,634 --> 00:50:21,042
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1186
00:50:21,042 --> 00:50:22,546
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1187
00:50:22,546 --> 00:50:23,806
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1188
00:50:23,806 --> 00:50:24,786
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1189
00:50:24,786 --> 00:50:25,746
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1190
00:50:25,746 --> 00:50:26,950
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1191
00:50:26,950 --> 00:50:28,726
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1192
00:50:28,726 --> 00:50:32,566
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1193
00:50:32,566 --> 00:50:33,206
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1194
00:50:33,206 --> 00:50:34,082
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1195
00:50:34,082 --> 00:50:35,586
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1196
00:50:35,586 --> 00:50:37,366
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1197
00:50:37,366 --> 00:50:38,358
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1198
00:50:38,358 --> 00:50:39,898
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1199
00:50:39,898 --> 00:50:41,882
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1200
00:50:41,882 --> 00:50:43,674
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1201
00:50:43,674 --> 00:50:45,722
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1202
00:50:45,722 --> 00:50:47,642
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1203
00:50:47,642 --> 00:50:48,746
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1204
00:50:48,746 --> 00:50:49,866
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1205
00:50:49,866 --> 00:50:51,422
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1206
00:50:51,422 --> 00:50:52,654
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1207
00:50:52,654 --> 00:50:54,346
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1208
00:50:54,346 --> 00:50:55,514
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1209
00:50:55,514 --> 00:50:57,214
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1210
00:50:57,214 --> 00:50:58,654
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1211
00:50:58,654 --> 00:50:59,662
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1212
00:50:59,662 --> 00:51:01,754
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1213
00:51:01,754 --> 00:51:03,166
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1214
00:51:03,166 --> 00:51:04,706
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1215
00:51:04,706 --> 00:51:06,290
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1216
00:51:06,290 --> 00:51:08,626
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1217
00:51:08,626 --> 00:51:11,518
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1218
00:51:11,518 --> 00:51:12,866
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1219
00:51:12,866 --> 00:51:14,354
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1220
00:51:14,354 --> 00:51:15,586
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1221
00:51:15,586 --> 00:51:17,174
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1222
00:51:17,174 --> 00:51:18,454
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1223
00:51:18,454 --> 00:51:23,234
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1224
00:51:23,234 --> 00:51:24,486
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1225
00:51:24,486 --> 00:51:25,366
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1226
00:51:25,366 --> 00:51:26,166
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1227
00:51:26,166 --> 00:51:28,140
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1228
00:51:28,140 --> 00:51:29,866
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1229
00:51:29,866 --> 00:51:33,020
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1230
00:51:33,020 --> 00:51:35,318
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1231
00:51:35,318 --> 00:51:36,982
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1232
00:51:36,982 --> 00:51:38,554
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1233
00:51:38,554 --> 00:51:40,074
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1234
00:51:40,074 --> 00:51:41,862
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1235
00:51:41,862 --> 00:51:42,974
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1236
00:51:42,974 --> 00:51:44,366
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1237
00:51:44,366 --> 00:51:45,406
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1238
00:51:45,406 --> 00:51:46,126
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1239
00:51:46,126 --> 00:51:47,566
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1240
00:51:47,566 --> 00:51:49,374
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1241
00:51:49,374 --> 00:51:51,520
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1242
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:54,494
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1243
00:51:54,494 --> 00:51:55,538
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1244
00:51:55,538 --> 00:51:56,498
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1245
00:51:56,498 --> 00:51:57,570
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1246
00:51:57,570 --> 00:51:59,902
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1247
00:51:59,902 --> 00:52:02,110
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1248
00:52:02,110 --> 00:52:02,946
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1249
00:52:02,946 --> 00:52:03,890
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1250
00:52:03,890 --> 00:52:06,094
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1251
00:52:06,094 --> 00:52:08,034
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1252
00:52:08,034 --> 00:52:08,966
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1253
00:52:08,966 --> 00:52:11,442
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1254
00:52:11,442 --> 00:52:12,406
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1255
00:52:12,406 --> 00:52:13,414
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1256
00:52:13,414 --> 00:52:14,806
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1257
00:52:14,806 --> 00:52:16,070
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1258
00:52:16,070 --> 00:52:17,814
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1259
00:52:17,814 --> 00:52:18,646
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1260
00:52:18,646 --> 00:52:19,266
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1261
00:52:19,266 --> 00:52:19,898
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1262
00:52:19,898 --> 00:52:20,570
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1263
00:52:20,570 --> 00:52:22,010
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1264
00:52:22,010 --> 00:52:22,986
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1265
00:52:22,986 --> 00:52:24,042
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1266
00:52:24,042 --> 00:52:25,482
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1267
00:52:25,482 --> 00:52:27,802
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1268
00:52:27,802 --> 00:52:29,818
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1269
00:52:29,818 --> 00:52:31,274
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1270
00:52:31,274 --> 00:52:32,186
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1271
00:52:32,186 --> 00:52:33,446
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1272
00:52:33,446 --> 00:52:34,334
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1273
00:52:34,334 --> 00:52:35,262
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1274
00:52:35,262 --> 00:52:36,206
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1275
00:52:36,206 --> 00:52:37,118
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1276
00:52:37,118 --> 00:52:38,606
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1277
00:52:38,606 --> 00:52:40,042
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1278
00:52:40,042 --> 00:52:41,886
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1279
00:52:41,886 --> 00:52:42,814
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1280
00:52:42,814 --> 00:52:44,766
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1281
00:52:44,766 --> 00:52:46,462
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1282
00:52:46,462 --> 00:52:47,730
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1283
00:52:47,730 --> 00:52:49,378
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1284
00:52:49,378 --> 00:52:50,098
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1285
00:52:50,098 --> 00:52:50,770
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1286
00:52:50,770 --> 00:52:51,426
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1287
00:52:51,426 --> 00:52:52,306
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1288
00:52:52,306 --> 00:52:53,486
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1289
00:52:53,486 --> 00:52:55,634
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1290
00:52:55,634 --> 00:52:56,734
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1291
00:52:56,734 --> 00:52:59,334
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1292
00:52:59,334 --> 00:52:59,846
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1293
00:52:59,846 --> 00:53:01,106
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1294
00:53:01,106 --> 00:53:01,974
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1295
00:53:01,974 --> 00:53:03,046
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1296
00:53:03,046 --> 00:53:03,734
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1297
00:53:03,734 --> 00:53:05,430
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1298
00:53:05,430 --> 00:53:06,966
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1299
00:53:06,966 --> 00:53:08,422
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1300
00:53:08,422 --> 00:53:09,458
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1301
00:53:09,458 --> 00:53:10,154
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1302
00:53:10,154 --> 00:53:12,054
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1303
00:53:12,054 --> 00:53:14,058
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1304
00:53:14,058 --> 00:53:17,018
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1305
00:53:17,018 --> 00:53:17,898
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1306
00:53:17,898 --> 00:53:18,458
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1307
00:53:18,458 --> 00:53:19,226
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1308
00:53:19,226 --> 00:53:20,922
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1309
00:53:20,922 --> 00:53:23,274
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1310
00:53:23,274 --> 00:53:24,602
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1311
00:53:24,602 --> 00:53:25,902
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1312
00:53:25,902 --> 00:53:26,894
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1313
00:53:26,894 --> 00:53:27,518
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1314
00:53:27,518 --> 00:53:28,606
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1315
00:53:28,606 --> 00:53:29,674
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1316
00:53:29,674 --> 00:53:30,906
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1317
00:53:30,906 --> 00:53:32,750
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1318
00:53:32,750 --> 00:53:35,286
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1319
00:53:35,286 --> 00:53:36,162
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1320
00:53:36,162 --> 00:53:37,890
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1321
00:53:37,890 --> 00:53:39,186
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1322
00:53:39,186 --> 00:53:40,722
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1323
00:53:40,722 --> 00:53:41,682
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1324
00:53:41,682 --> 00:53:42,962
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1325
00:53:42,962 --> 00:53:44,402
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1326
00:53:44,402 --> 00:53:45,394
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1327
00:53:45,394 --> 00:53:46,642
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1328
00:53:46,642 --> 00:53:48,194
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1329
00:53:48,194 --> 00:53:49,174
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1330
00:53:49,174 --> 00:53:49,926
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1331
00:53:49,926 --> 00:53:52,486
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1332
00:53:52,486 --> 00:53:54,726
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1333
00:53:54,726 --> 00:53:55,926
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1334
00:53:55,926 --> 00:53:56,726
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1335
00:53:56,726 --> 00:53:57,574
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1336
00:53:57,574 --> 00:53:58,854
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1337
00:53:58,854 --> 00:53:59,638
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1338
00:53:59,638 --> 00:54:00,354
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1339
00:54:00,354 --> 00:54:00,886
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1340
00:54:00,886 --> 00:54:01,626
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1341
00:54:01,626 --> 00:54:02,506
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1342
00:54:02,506 --> 00:54:03,354
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1343
00:54:03,354 --> 00:54:04,234
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1344
00:54:04,234 --> 00:54:06,266
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1345
00:54:06,266 --> 00:54:08,314
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1346
00:54:08,314 --> 00:54:09,274
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1347
00:54:09,274 --> 00:54:09,962
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1348
00:54:09,962 --> 00:54:11,386
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1349
00:54:11,386 --> 00:54:12,542
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1350
00:54:12,542 --> 00:54:13,834
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1351
00:54:13,834 --> 00:54:15,134
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1352
00:54:15,134 --> 00:54:17,738
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1353
00:54:17,738 --> 00:54:18,922
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1354
00:54:18,922 --> 00:54:20,794
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1355
00:54:20,794 --> 00:54:21,694
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1356
00:54:21,694 --> 00:54:23,262
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1357
00:54:23,262 --> 00:54:23,966
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1358
00:54:23,966 --> 00:54:25,294
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1359
00:54:25,294 --> 00:54:26,914
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1360
00:54:26,914 --> 00:54:29,554
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1361
00:54:29,554 --> 00:54:30,434
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1362
00:54:30,434 --> 00:54:31,794
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1363
00:54:31,794 --> 00:54:32,466
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1364
00:54:32,466 --> 00:54:33,362
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1365
00:54:33,362 --> 00:54:34,226
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1366
00:54:34,226 --> 00:54:35,442
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1367
00:54:35,442 --> 00:54:36,706
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1368
00:54:36,706 --> 00:54:37,426
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1369
00:54:37,426 --> 00:54:38,354
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1370
00:54:38,354 --> 00:54:39,202
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1371
00:54:39,202 --> 00:54:39,894
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1372
00:54:39,894 --> 00:54:40,758
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1373
00:54:40,758 --> 00:54:41,382
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1374
00:54:41,382 --> 00:54:42,966
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1375
00:54:42,966 --> 00:54:44,162
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1376
00:54:44,162 --> 00:54:45,186
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1377
00:54:45,186 --> 00:54:46,614
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1378
00:54:46,614 --> 00:54:47,794
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1379
00:54:47,794 --> 00:54:48,614
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1380
00:54:48,614 --> 00:54:50,134
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1381
00:54:50,134 --> 00:54:50,998
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1382
00:54:50,998 --> 00:54:51,786
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1383
00:54:51,786 --> 00:54:52,746
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1384
00:54:52,746 --> 00:54:53,658
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1385
00:54:53,658 --> 00:54:54,778
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1386
00:54:54,778 --> 00:54:55,866
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1387
00:54:55,866 --> 00:54:57,274
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1388
00:54:57,274 --> 00:55:00,006
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1389
00:55:00,006 --> 00:55:01,002
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1390
00:55:01,002 --> 00:55:02,700
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1391
00:55:02,700 --> 00:55:05,006
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1392
00:55:05,006 --> 00:55:06,126
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1393
00:55:06,126 --> 00:55:07,118
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1394
00:55:07,118 --> 00:55:08,462
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1395
00:55:08,462 --> 00:55:10,014
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1396
00:55:10,014 --> 00:55:11,274
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1397
00:55:11,274 --> 00:55:12,234
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1398
00:55:12,234 --> 00:55:12,958
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1399
00:55:12,958 --> 00:55:13,518
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1400
00:55:13,518 --> 00:55:15,194
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1401
00:55:15,194 --> 00:55:15,918
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1402
00:55:15,918 --> 00:55:16,574
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1403
00:55:16,574 --> 00:55:17,794
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1404
00:55:17,794 --> 00:55:18,626
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1405
00:55:18,626 --> 00:55:19,762
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1406
00:55:19,762 --> 00:55:20,546
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1407
00:55:20,546 --> 00:55:21,666
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1408
00:55:21,666 --> 00:55:22,626
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1409
00:55:22,626 --> 00:55:24,066
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1410
00:55:24,066 --> 00:55:25,378
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1411
00:55:25,378 --> 00:55:27,234
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1412
00:55:27,234 --> 00:55:27,922
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1413
00:55:27,922 --> 00:55:29,650
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1414
00:55:29,650 --> 00:55:31,026
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1415
00:55:31,026 --> 00:55:32,006
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1416
00:55:32,006 --> 00:55:32,646
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1417
00:55:32,646 --> 00:55:33,814
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1418
00:55:33,814 --> 00:55:34,946
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1419
00:55:34,946 --> 00:55:35,606
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1420
00:55:35,606 --> 00:55:37,014
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1421
00:55:37,014 --> 00:55:38,054
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1422
00:55:38,054 --> 00:55:38,758
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1423
00:55:38,758 --> 00:55:39,514
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1424
00:55:39,514 --> 00:55:40,474
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1425
00:55:40,474 --> 00:55:42,954
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1426
00:55:42,954 --> 00:55:43,914
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1427
00:55:43,914 --> 00:55:45,206
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1428
00:55:45,206 --> 00:55:46,106
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1429
00:55:46,106 --> 00:55:47,446
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1430
00:55:47,446 --> 00:55:49,946
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1431
00:55:49,946 --> 00:55:50,794
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1432
00:55:50,794 --> 00:55:51,738
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1433
00:55:51,738 --> 00:55:52,378
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1434
00:55:52,378 --> 00:55:52,906
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1435
00:55:52,906 --> 00:55:54,426
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1436
00:55:54,426 --> 00:55:55,406
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1437
00:55:55,406 --> 00:55:56,574
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1438
00:55:56,574 --> 00:55:57,966
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1439
00:55:57,966 --> 00:55:59,486
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1440
00:55:59,486 --> 00:56:00,618
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1441
00:56:00,618 --> 00:56:01,758
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1442
00:56:01,758 --> 00:56:02,286
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1443
00:56:02,286 --> 00:56:02,798
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1444
00:56:02,798 --> 00:56:03,694
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1445
00:56:03,694 --> 00:56:04,734
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1446
00:56:04,734 --> 00:56:05,418
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1447
00:56:05,418 --> 00:56:07,714
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1448
00:56:07,714 --> 00:56:09,220
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1449
00:56:09,220 --> 00:56:10,722
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1450
00:56:10,722 --> 00:56:11,694
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1451
00:56:11,694 --> 00:56:12,546
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1452
00:56:12,546 --> 00:56:13,854
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1453
00:56:13,854 --> 00:56:14,686
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1454
00:56:14,686 --> 00:56:15,266
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1455
00:56:15,266 --> 00:56:16,146
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1456
00:56:16,146 --> 00:56:17,554
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1457
00:56:17,554 --> 00:56:18,194
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1458
00:56:18,194 --> 00:56:18,786
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1459
00:56:18,786 --> 00:56:20,050
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1460
00:56:20,050 --> 00:56:21,318
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1461
00:56:21,318 --> 00:56:22,054
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1462
00:56:22,054 --> 00:56:22,726
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1463
00:56:22,726 --> 00:56:25,026
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1464
00:56:25,026 --> 00:56:25,638
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1465
00:56:25,638 --> 00:56:26,166
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1466
00:56:26,166 --> 00:56:27,110
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1467
00:56:27,110 --> 00:56:27,846
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1468
00:56:27,846 --> 00:56:29,414
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1469
00:56:29,414 --> 00:56:30,246
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1470
00:56:30,246 --> 00:56:31,126
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1471
00:56:31,126 --> 00:56:31,738
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1472
00:56:31,738 --> 00:56:32,666
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1473
00:56:32,666 --> 00:56:33,834
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1474
00:56:33,834 --> 00:56:34,858
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1475
00:56:34,858 --> 00:56:36,474
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1476
00:56:36,474 --> 00:56:38,826
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1477
00:56:38,826 --> 00:56:39,418
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1478
00:56:39,418 --> 00:56:39,946
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1479
00:56:39,946 --> 00:56:40,666
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1480
00:56:40,666 --> 00:56:41,706
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1481
00:56:41,706 --> 00:56:42,138
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1482
00:56:42,138 --> 00:56:42,634
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1483
00:56:42,634 --> 00:56:43,690
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1484
00:56:43,690 --> 00:56:45,318
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1485
00:56:45,318 --> 00:56:45,806
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1486
00:56:45,806 --> 00:56:46,558
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1487
00:56:46,558 --> 00:56:47,374
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1488
00:56:47,374 --> 00:56:48,746
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1489
00:56:48,746 --> 00:56:49,246
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1490
00:56:49,246 --> 00:56:50,894
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1491
00:56:50,894 --> 00:56:51,822
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1492
00:56:51,822 --> 00:56:54,142
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1493
00:56:54,142 --> 00:56:55,600
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1494
00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:57,266
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1495
00:56:57,266 --> 00:56:58,018
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1496
00:56:58,018 --> 00:56:58,674
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1497
00:56:58,674 --> 00:56:59,586
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1498
00:56:59,586 --> 00:57:01,940
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1499
00:57:01,940 --> 00:57:04,098
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1500
00:57:04,098 --> 00:57:05,938
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1501
00:57:05,938 --> 00:57:06,934
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1502
00:57:06,934 --> 00:57:09,014
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1503
00:57:09,014 --> 00:57:11,446
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1504
00:57:11,446 --> 00:57:12,454
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1505
00:57:12,454 --> 00:57:13,686
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1506
00:57:13,686 --> 00:57:14,626
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1507
00:57:14,626 --> 00:57:16,582
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1508
00:57:16,582 --> 00:57:18,438
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1509
00:57:18,438 --> 00:57:19,194
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1510
00:57:19,194 --> 00:57:20,038
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1511
00:57:20,038 --> 00:57:21,034
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1512
00:57:21,034 --> 00:57:22,666
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1513
00:57:22,666 --> 00:57:23,926
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1514
00:57:23,926 --> 00:57:25,654
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1515
00:57:25,654 --> 00:57:28,058
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1516
00:57:28,058 --> 00:57:30,646
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1517
00:57:30,646 --> 00:57:31,774
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1518
00:57:31,774 --> 00:57:33,226
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1519
00:57:33,226 --> 00:57:34,586
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1520
00:57:34,586 --> 00:57:35,886
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1521
00:57:35,886 --> 00:57:37,626
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1522
00:57:37,626 --> 00:57:39,946
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1523
00:57:39,946 --> 00:57:41,246
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1524
00:57:41,246 --> 00:57:43,886
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1525
00:57:43,886 --> 00:57:44,926
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1526
00:57:44,926 --> 00:57:45,826
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1527
00:57:45,826 --> 00:57:47,074
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1528
00:57:47,074 --> 00:57:48,130
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1529
00:57:48,130 --> 00:57:49,666
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1530
00:57:49,666 --> 00:57:50,338
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1531
00:57:50,338 --> 00:57:51,186
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1532
00:57:51,186 --> 00:57:53,554
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1533
00:57:53,554 --> 00:57:54,546
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1534
00:57:54,546 --> 00:57:55,314
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1535
00:57:55,314 --> 00:57:56,258
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1536
00:57:56,258 --> 00:57:57,090
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1537
00:57:57,090 --> 00:57:59,590
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1538
00:57:59,590 --> 00:58:01,800
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1539
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:03,446
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1540
00:58:03,446 --> 00:58:03,986
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1541
00:58:03,986 --> 00:58:04,774
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1542
00:58:04,774 --> 00:58:05,654
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1543
00:58:05,654 --> 00:58:06,934
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1544
00:58:06,934 --> 00:58:07,686
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1545
00:58:07,686 --> 00:58:09,094
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1546
00:58:09,094 --> 00:58:10,746
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1547
00:58:10,746 --> 00:58:11,786
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1548
00:58:11,786 --> 00:58:13,674
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1549
00:58:13,674 --> 00:58:14,842
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1550
00:58:14,842 --> 00:58:15,626
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1551
00:58:15,626 --> 00:58:17,082
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1552
00:58:17,082 --> 00:58:18,394
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1553
00:58:18,394 --> 00:58:20,138
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1554
00:58:20,138 --> 00:58:21,402
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1555
00:58:21,402 --> 00:58:22,138
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1556
00:58:22,138 --> 00:58:24,198
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1557
00:58:24,198 --> 00:58:25,166
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1558
00:58:25,166 --> 00:58:26,026
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1559
00:58:26,026 --> 00:58:27,466
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1560
00:58:27,466 --> 00:58:27,966
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1561
00:58:27,966 --> 00:58:28,494
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1562
00:58:28,494 --> 00:58:30,574
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1563
00:58:30,574 --> 00:58:32,206
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1564
00:58:32,206 --> 00:58:32,926
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1565
00:58:32,926 --> 00:58:34,382
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1566
00:58:34,382 --> 00:58:35,374
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1567
00:58:35,374 --> 00:58:37,694
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1568
00:58:37,694 --> 00:58:39,214
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1569
00:58:39,214 --> 00:58:40,478
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1570
00:58:40,478 --> 00:58:41,594
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1571
00:58:41,594 --> 00:58:42,862
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1572
00:58:42,862 --> 00:58:43,566
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1573
00:58:43,566 --> 00:58:44,430
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1574
00:58:44,430 --> 00:58:46,198
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1575
00:58:46,198 --> 00:58:48,006
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1576
00:58:48,006 --> 00:58:48,950
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1577
00:58:48,950 --> 00:58:50,662
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1578
00:58:50,662 --> 00:58:52,678
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1579
00:58:52,678 --> 00:58:53,782
undefined undefined undefined undefined

1580
00:58:53,782 --> 00:58:54,980
undefined undefined undefined undefined

New to the podcast?

Here are some great episodes to start with.

Nov. 11, 2024

Mike Nellis Former Advisor to Kamala Harris: White Dudes for Harris's…

If you're feeling bewildered and unsure about how to navigate the influence of white male voters in the US election, then you are not alone! The current political landscape can leave you feeling overwhelmed and lost, especially when it seems …

Episode page

Nov. 6, 2024

Johnna Harris on Empathy on the Ballot: A Christian in Arizona Makes …

Have you ever heard these myths about voting as a Christian woman? 1) You have to vote a certain way to be a good Christian. 2) Your vote doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. 3) Politics and …

Episode page

Oct. 30, 2024

Aimee Allison on Kamala Harris and Democracy: Women of Color at the F…

Do you want to join a movement that's changing the face of American democracy and empowering women of color like never before? Imagine being part of electing the first woman of color as the President of the United States. I've …

Episode page

Sept. 18, 2024

Dr. Jemar Tisby on The Spirit of Justice: Stories of Resilience and R…

Are you ready to uncover the unexpected connection between racial justice and Christianity in US history? Get ready to be inspired and engaged as we reveal the surprising insights from this powerful conversation. Stay tuned to discover how this unexpected …

Episode page

Sept. 11, 2024

Dr. Chuck DeGroat on Healing What's WIthin: Finding Wholeness After A…

If you're feeling the weight of past trauma and struggling to heal, then you are not alone! The journey to healing from abuse and trauma is often filled with challenges, and finding the right tools to navigate this journey can …

Episode page

Aug. 28, 2024

When Workplace Adversity Becomes Work Trauma: A Princeton Study with …

Does this sound familiar? You've been told to work harder, take on more tasks, and just push through those workplace challenges, but the pain of feeling isolated, overwhelmed, and undervalued still lingers. It's time for a different approach to handle …

Episode page

Aug. 7, 2024

From Political Insights to Personal Obstacles: An Immigrant's Journey…

An Immigrant's Journey of Purpose with Dr. Esther Zeledón

Episode page

July 24, 2024

Navigating Politics, Religion, and Justice: A Lawyer's Perspective wi…

A Lawyer's Perspective with Robert Callahan

Episode page

July 17, 2024

Lisa Sharon Harper on The Struggle for Liberation: From Slave Ships t…

From Slave Ships to Freedom Roads

Episode page

June 19, 2024

Adoptee Centered Approaches: Walking with Those Impacted by Adoption …

Are you ready for the unexpected? Dive into the world of adoptee-centered approaches with Cameron Lee Small, a licensed clinical counselor and transracial adoptee. Get ready to be moved as we unravel the layers of grief, loss, and empowerment in …

Episode page

May 8, 2024

Tia Levings on The Well-Trained Wife

Groomed for Submission, Desperate to Escape

Episode page

April 3, 2024

Elaine Lin Hering on Overcoming Barriers to Speaking Up: A Framework …

Unlearning silence isn't just about finding your voice; it's about recognizing the ways we've all been complicit in silencing others. And the surprising insights from a Harvard lecturer will have you rethinking the impact of silence in your world. Join …

Episode page

Feb. 28, 2024

Making Money While Making a Difference: An Expert's Blueprint with Be…

Hey, have you ever felt like you're trying to do the right thing in your business, but it just feels like too much? Like you want to merge profit with purpose, but it seems overwhelming. You're not alone. Many leaders …

Episode page

Feb. 21, 2024

Sarah McCammon on Politics, Media, and Leaving White Evangelicalism

Uncover the unexpected impact of the Trump campaign on the evangelical community as NPR journalist Sarah McCammon shares her personal journey. Her book delves into the complex experiences of those navigating a transition away...

Episode page

Dec. 8, 2023

Norma Braga Venâncio's Courageous Journey of Advocacy, Justice and Ex…

Does the experience of abuse within religious communities sound familiar to you? Have you been told to simply pray it away and forgive without addressing the pain and trauma you've endured? The weight of carrying this burden alone can be …

Episode page

Nov. 15, 2023

Cordell Carter, II on the Aspen Institute and Building a Dynamic Prof…

Cordell Carter, II, the visionary advocate, ignites a revolution of inclusion as he rallies leaders to create a professional learning community, challenging the status quo and dismantling barriers in the pursuit of a fair and...

Episode page

Nov. 8, 2023

Limor Bergman Gross: Crushing Career Stereotypes and Women in Tech Le…

Does this sound familiar? Have you been told that in order to advance in your tech leadership career, you need to simply work harder and prove yourself? But despite your efforts, you still feel like you're hitting a glass cei...

Episode page

Oct. 25, 2023

Naghmeh Panahi: From Darkness to Freedom and Her Inspiring Road to Re…

Episode page

Sept. 6, 2023

Lisa Niver: Reinventing Yourself, Brave-ish, and an Inspirational Sto…

Do you long for a renewed sense of strength and self-discovery in the face of life's challenges? Are you seeking inspiration and guidance to navigate major transitions with resilience? Look no further! In this episode, we hav...

Episode page

March 2, 2022

Belonging: Jeff Le on Growing Up Vietnamese-American, His Work in Pol…

Jeff Le has had a career at the highest levels of public policy and politics at the state, federal and international levels. A recognized thought leader in political advocacy and representation, his analysis and opinions have been featured on MSNBC,

Episode page

March 30, 2022

Belonging: Jo Saxton on Recent Clergy Abuse Cases, Leadership Pipeli…

Join our Patreon community of Difference-MakersJo Saxton is a speaker, author, podcast host, and leadership coach who has dedicated her career to investing in women leaders own their voice and find their purpose in their personal lives and in leadership.

Episode page

April 13, 2022

Belonging: Corey Nathan on Growing Up Jewish, Finding Jesus, Celebra…

Corey Nathan, host of the podcast Talkin‘ Politics & Religion Without Killin‘ Each Other! is on the show this week talking about, you guessed it, politics and religion. Buckle up because this conversation goes deep fast.

Episode page

April 22, 2022

EARTH DAY: Dave Johnson on Climate Change, Activism, Stanford Law Sch…

Dave Johnson is a lawyer, teacher and writer. He has served as general counsel for several tech companies in Silicon Valley across the last twenty years. For the last decade he has held teaching and research posts at Stanford Law …

Episode page

July 27, 2022

Wellness: Dr. Paul Miller on Christian Nationalism, Jan 6, White Eva…

Become a patron of this podcast, and enjoy free merch. Join other patrons of this podcast at Patreon. **********Dr. Paul D. Miller (PhD, Georgetown University) is a Christian scholar, political theorist, veteran, and former White House staffer,

Episode page

Aug. 18, 2022

Our Story Part 1: The Calm Before the Storm

Become a patron of this podcast, and enjoy free merch. Join other patrons of this podcast at Patreon. **********Trigger warning: If you have experienced spiritual abuse, emotional abuse, psychological abuse or any type of abuse especially in a faith-b...

Episode page

Sept. 16, 2022

Our Story Part 5: Image Management & Discrediting the Whistleblower

Become a patron of this podcast, and enjoy free merch. Join other patrons of this podcast at Patreon. **********Please consider signing the petition by Echo Survivors to release former staff at Echo.church from NDAs so they can share their stories …

Episode page

Sept. 22, 2022

Our Story Part 6: Disaster Relief Phase & False Narratives

Episode page

Oct. 12, 2022

Restore: Jessica Stone on Politics, Journalism, Cultural Competency &…

Become a patron of this podcast, and enjoy free merch. Join other patrons of this podcast at Patreon. **********JESSICA STONE’S WORK HAS APPEARED IN THE SOUTH CHINA MORNING POST, YAHOO FINANCE, STANSBERRY RESEARCH, PUBLIC RADIO INTERNATIONAL, USA TODAY,

Episode page

March 3, 2023

Change: Angela Proffitt- From Pain to Profit - An Entrepreneur's Jour…

Experience the power of overcoming pain and discovering purpose through Angela’s inspiring journey."It's not about the stuff, and it's not about all these luxury things. People spend $5 million on a wedding, and I'm like,

Episode page

Sept. 8, 2022

Our Story Part 4: The Firing Squad

Become a patron of this podcast , and enjoy free merch. Join other patrons of this podcast at Patreon . ********** Please consider signing the petition by Echo Survivors to release former staff at Echo.church from NDAs so the...

Episode page

March 7, 2023

Change: Allyson McKinney Timm- Achieving Equality and the Faith for E…

Allyson McKinney Timm, a global justice advocate and founder of Justice Revival, leads an interfaith campaign to support women's rights, gender equality and the Equal Rights Amendment to the US Constitution, despite the culture war drama, religious resistance and financial …

Episode page

March 15, 2023

Change: Dr. Nijay Gupta- Uncovering Her Story: How Women Led, Taught …

In this episode of the World of Difference podcast, Dr. Nijay Gupta, a Hindu background Christian and seminary professor, uses his privilege to uncover the hidden female figures in the New Testament and challenge the long-sta...

Episode page

May 18, 2022

Wellness: Gillian Tietz on Sober Powered, Alcohol's Effect on Differe…

Gillian Tietz is the host of the Sober Powered podcast and works as a biochemist in the Boston area. When she quit drinking in 2019, she dedicated herself to learning about alcohol's influence on the brain and how it can …

Episode page

Feb. 8, 2023

Change: Doni Aldine's Journey as a Third Culture Kid, Empathy & Coura…

Celebrate the courage to explore, learn and grow with empathy, as TCKs show us how to thrive with multiple dimensions of belonging. "The biggest tool in our tool bag is something that we're good at, but we need to focus …

Episode page

Aug. 18, 2022

Our Story Part 1: The Calm Before the Storm

Lori and Jason Adams-Brown share their story of spiritual abuse, emotional abuse and psychological abuse at Echo.church in San Jose, CA at the hands of Andy Wood and Filipe Santos. Their story is by no means the worst story of …

Episode page

June 29, 2022

Wellness: Tahmima Anam on Supporting Women at Work, Microagressions, …

Tahmima Anam is an award-winning novelist, anthropologist, and author of The Startup Wife . She is a Contributing Opinion Writer for the International New York Times and Board Director at ROLl , a tech startup. Her latest Ted...

Episode page

Sept. 1, 2022

Our Story Part 3: The Gaslighting and Flanking

Become a patron of this podcast , and enjoy free merch. Join other patrons of this podcast at Patreon . ********** Trigger warning: If you have experienced spiritual abuse, emotional abuse, psychological abuse or any type of...

Episode page

Aug. 25, 2022

Our Story Part 2: The Question

Become a patron of this podcast , and enjoy free merch. Join other patrons of this podcast at Patreon . ********** Trigger warning: If you have experienced spiritual abuse, emotional abuse, psychological abuse or any type of ...

Episode page

April 26, 2023

Change: Sheila Wray Gregoire on She Deserves Better and Redefining Gi…

Sheila Wray Gregoire on She Deserves Better: Redefining Women's Worth Get ready to delve into the fascinating world of sex, marriage, and the impact of messaging on girls' lives in this episode of A World of Difference. Host ...

Episode page

Best of 2023: Naghmeh Panahi's Story of Survival in Iran and Unmasking Hidden Domestic Abuse

Listen On

Featured Episodes

Recent Episodes

New to the podcast?