Breaking the Silence: Abuse in the Southern Baptist Convention, NDAs & Women Pastors

Transcript

Podcast Lori on SBC, NDAs & Women Pastors.

Welcome to the A World of Difference Podcast.

I'm Lori Adams Brown, and this is a podcast for those who are different and wanna make a difference.

For those of you who have been following what's been going on with the Southern Baptist convention in the United States and are wondering in the world is happening with women pastors being brought up?

There's abuse allegations all over the place.

There are continuing to be mega church pastors and small church pastors who are being accused of abuse.

And this is not new.

Any of you who have read the Houston Chronicles articles from several years back have seen that there have been many cases of abuse brought out.

And some of you are reading this news around the world.

I remember first reading the Houston Chronicles articles back when I lived and worked in Singapore a few years ago.

And I just wanted to take take some time today because I know many of you in this community identify as Southern Baptist currently.

And some of you previously identified as Southern Baptist, or were a part of that denomination for many years.

And others of you are just people of faith of many different faith back rounds, whether it's a Christian, background, or a Jewish background, Muslim, any of you who are in faith communities are Also, you know, expressing concern about what has been going on here in the United States around the situation with the Southern Baptist convention, and also interview out here in my listening audience, and I know many of you are people who just care about human flourishing in general, whether it's women or men, people who have titles and powers in position or people who are more marginalized and have very little opportunity to speak and have a platform about their opinions.

I know that my listeners, each of you out around the world, have expressed to me many concerns about what's happening at the Southern Baptist convention and what's about to happen in June where the issue of allowing Saddleback Church to be brought back into the convention is really a, I guess, a hot topic right now.

And so I've had a few of you reach out because I am a whistleblower about my own abuse and another Baptist Church, which is a church that Andy Wood here used to be a lead pastor of, and I was a pastor who so served under him.

Obviously, I'm a woman.

So I was a woman ambassador.

And so I've had a few of you reach out just to hear my perspective to, you know, want me to kinda week into it either on your podcast or or into articles.

And so I'm just really busy right now with my job that I love and my family that I have been time with.

And as many of you know, my my journey of walking through abuse, trauma recovery over the past couple of years has been I've had to keep my world a little bit smaller.

Just to heal, and I I've really been blessed on a healing journey of all of you who have been co healers with me, either because you are people who've walked through your own abuse or because you are people who are just good listeners or your people I've intentionally brought around me as a village of healers with your different areas of expertise, being subject matter experts and just professionals in the way that has helped me heal through coaching and spiritual direction and therapist and just all the different parts of this village that has been such a blessing to me.

And so Yeah.

I I wanted to take the opportunity to sort of speak to those of you in this community who care about this.

This issue, which is gonna probably be increasing over the next few weeks.

And I sat down to record this you know, the week before Memorial Day, and I know over Memorial Day weekend, some video was just released that I I only just cut parts of.

So this is not in response to any video that has been put out recently.

This this is really just my my thoughts and my desire to speak to you in this community because some of you have reached out and wanted to know, you know, my perspective on it.

And I I just offer this to you as a way to help us move forward, help us make a difference together.

And, yeah, I would really love to hear your thoughts around it, and So always, always feel free to reach out over any social media.

Twitter is a great place to reach out and just tag me there and say what you thought.

But yeah, here's some of my thoughts, and I'll leave those with you, and would love to hear back from you about your perspective of what all is going on.

So here's me addressing some of these issues as a whistleblower as somebody who has walked through abuse and trauma recovery and wants to warn people about a wolf that is among us and all the smoke and mirrors surrounding the image management that would distract us from 1 of the main issues that should be addressed right now, which is the abuse and the abuse allegations and the cover up.

It's not always what happened, it's how people respond and the cover up is some of the most painful parts of what many of you and the abuse survivor community have walked through myself included who not only had the board of my own church sort of circle the wagons and be Yes men and cover up everything with image management.

But then the next church that the man who abused me and many others went to also used their phone investigation to cover it up too.

And so it just it's time that we get real and we get honest and we stop covering up what's going on.

And my desire here and many survivors I know you feel the same way.

It's too warn because we just don't want this to ever, ever ever happen to anyone else ever again.

And so we warn so that others don't have to walk through this.

So I offer this to you, and let me know what you think.

It's been a hard 3 or 4 years, maybe more.

There are systems we're challenging.

There are systems we trusted that we no longer trust.

There are skeletons behind closets that have shocked us all.

And there are dark secrets behind curtains that some saw for many years and decades and generations and others have only recently.

Come to understand.

It's been a hard time for all of us, and we're all feeling it in different ways.

I'm here today to speak very specifically to the listeners in this community who have in in the past or currently identified as part of the Southern Baptist convention.

Many of you know that this was a denomination I was involved in my entire life, raised in it, worked in ministry in it, even served as a pastor in a Southern Baptist Church.

Before eventually being abused myself by a mega church pastor and various forms of abuse, including emotional abuse, and psychological abuse, and spiritual abuse, verbal abuse.

There's a list of many things.

And as I have been a survivor of this, my experience is that I can no longer, as of a few years ago, be a part of a denomination that has chosen to cover up abuse.

So I decided a few years ago to no longer identify as a part of this denomination.

Many of you around the world are a part of different faith communities or communities that are not basically around a faith itself, but where you have seen abuses of power take place and abuse in various forms, and you've seen it covered up.

Because of silent bystanders, because of money, because of power, because of all the things we see that happen to whistle blowers and all of it makes sense.

And yet it doesn't make sense at all.

I get that a lot of people aren't interested in debates in the Southern Baptist convention right now about whether women can be pastors, and whether saddleback, church, should be back in the Southern Baptist convention, which is meeting in a few weeks and gonna be deciding this.

When especially, the elephant in the room is that abuse and cover up has taken place even by Andywood and Rick Warren at saddleback itself So I certainly get that many of us just wanna put our heads in the sand and pretend this is not happening.

Because we want to hold on to all it is good.

And when there is good and bad mixed in, it can be so easy to just ignore the bad and focus on the good, and there's nothing wrong with seeing beauty, but at the same time if there is something poisoning our community of is a cancer that is killing us.

We must get a diagnosis and we must get a treatment.

And so I'm here today talk about this issue that I care so deeply about because I love this community.

I especially love the faith community that raised me enough to say the hard truths and bring challenge when I see not only a brother going astray and causing harm to both himself and others, but a whole entire convention may be about to cover up as a system, something that has gone on for years, to hurt men and women and families.

It pains me to see so many people hurting and reeling from trauma after emotional abuse, psychological abuse, verbal abuse, spiritual abuse, labor abuse, financial abuse, abusive power that included bullying, intimidation, coercion, name calling, gaslighting, isolating, slandering, recording without our consent, making certain staff so miserable that they quit.

Retaliation against employees who reported abuse by being fired and given NDAs tied to severance and medical insurance.

That families with kids relied on at echo church.

I've met so many of you who were bullied and traumatized and abused by Andy Wood and Felipe Santos.

Some of you have had to do EMDR therapy to get rid of the trauma nightmares that you have had for years from 1 on 1 meetings that you had each with Andy Wood and Felipe Santos separately, and occasionally the 2 of those with just you in a room behind closed stores, where there was no 1, there was no 1 to be by your side and vouch for you, and there was no 1 to bear witness, and there was no 1 to have another narrative as you were being gaslit.

Some of you have been in therapy for years trying to make sense of a pastor and a friend who turned on you behind closed doors and created false narratives to discredit you.

Picking up the pieces of your lives Some of you have left the bay area to go as far away as Washington DC, Washington state, or Texas to get away from this bay area where you had been so, so, traumatized.

Others stayed here and lost the community when you were shunned for speaking out about what happened, or just because you left or were fired and a false narrative was created that you had quit.

I've heard your stories, and through you, I've seen that survivors are creating so much beauty from these ashes in a sacred fellowship of suffering that we share and where we are co healers together.

Many of you have suffered and survived this abuse from Echo Church and came way before me.

And when I spoke out, you found me to tell me I wasn't alone and that I wasn't crazy.

That is the story of the echo survivors, and yet many are still silent, behind NDAs at Echo Church has still refused to release.

Our petition has now reached over 1500 signatures of people who say It's time to release former staff of echo church from the NDAs that have covered up many stories for many years.

And until now, Felipe Santos, who is currently the lead pastor of Ecker Church now that Andy what is at saddleback, has still refused to release those NDAs.

There are skeletons behind the closet, but regardless, people should have the right to choose to share their own story and no church and no pastor should steal their voice and silence them in a way that does not allow them to share their own story for the rest of their lives.

It is time to release the NDAs, and I call up on southern Baptist to urge Felipe Santos to release the NDAs to urge Andy Wood and work Warren to tell Felipe Santos that those NDAs must be released so that survivors can make their own choice as to whether or not they share their stories.

You as echo survivors, have overcome because you wanted to flourish, you wanted to protect others, and you wanted to warn them.

I know I get it, and that is exactly why I spoke.

No 1 should have to go through what I have gone through, what my husband went through, what our entire family has had to go through to heal from this kind of trauma.

And it's better to prevent it from happening again than to have to see another 1 in this way at the hands of these 2 who have abused so many for so many years and covered it up.

However, when a survivor is alone, and speaks against a mega church pastor with a playbook of abuse, cover up, repeat.

They must go away quietly and suffer in silence and so many situations.

There is a lot of beauty though in these stories of church abuse survivors, and there is a tremendous amount of trauma and depression that can result to.

There's a struggle to be heard.

There's in just repeated on a flywheel of abuse that lures and grooms and love bombs, not with candy or a white van, but with free mugs and free t shirts and lavish parties and young professionals that can find someone to date and a stage with big smiles and free concerts every Sunday.

Kids programs and students programs that have free Nintendo switches and all kinds of prizes and lavish parties.

These are what lure and love bomb people to to draw in and to stay and to not see that there's anything dark going on behind the curtain.

Smoke and mirrors, Whether or not the SBC lets Andywood or Saddleback, Church back into the SBC will show whether abuse really matters.

And how stories get written in the press, in the media about Saddleback Church in Andywood, and Rick Warren will show whether we will fall for a spin doctor's narrative of smoke and mirrors that distract us from the many abuse allegations and let Andy be seen as a champion of women pastors, damsels in distress apparently that need a hero to speak for them.

You know, if women can be pastors, then they can speak for themselves, and even if you hold to a complimentary in theology, the SBC is not a church.

It's a convention.

So let women speak for themselves.

Let's truly honor the women.

Let's take a stand against injustice.

Being a lead pastor of a mega church is hard.

It requires listening.

To women, especially when they bring challenge to one's blind spots, it requires a devotion to truth a heart of a caring shepherd, and a posture of helping staff do their jobs better.

Most of all, it requires and ability to listen, deeply listen to those with less power and less authority in the same ways that Jesus himself did.

Each human being is an image bearer of God, and has meaning and worth.

A mega church lead pastor's words have power to sway minds, distract from truth, and cover up abuse with a stage and a microphone, leaving survivors falsely accused, discredited.

And their abuse covered up.

This is precisely how and why.

Many narcissistic pastors and personalities are drawn to this role where they can play people like chess pieces and put their own personas on display in the limelight.

Whistleblowers have no platform, less connections, and are easily ignored.

A narcissist dream come true.

Being a lead pastor of 1 of the largest churches in America doesn't change who you are.

In fact, It reveals who you are.

The ones behind the curtain and in the green rooms occasionally get to see that side.

A vote at the SBC Convention can reveal who the SBC is too.

Many have left myself included due to the years of abuse, cases, and stories that I know personally that have been covered up.

There are good people still in the SBC though.

I know many of you.

I've worked with many of you, and many are like family to me.

I'm friends with many who have led at high levels of the BC over time over the years, and many whose names you would never know because they work in high security situations around the world.

And if never had their picture taken, or stories written about them, but they have spread so much goodness in the world.

And over the years, I have seen goodness in the s b see, but I've also seen this darkness, and if we're honest, we see it too.

I've shared many meals and homes with leaders of the convention who've led us as I said at high levels.

I've prayed with many of you.

I've shared meals with many of you.

And many of you have also thrown your hands up in the air saying there's nothing we can do, and I get it.

Because It's hard, especially when you see too many people saying the same thing, and mega churches like Echochurch and Saddleback Church.

Have also had people in their congregations to throw their hands up and say, there's nothing we can do.

But I don't believe that that's true.

It it may seem too hard, and many of you may not wanna speak out because of all the reasons that we would any of us would find understandable.

It is hard.

It is difficult.

And many of you will say abuse happens happens too often.

We can't deal with every situation or maybe You believe a toxic rock star is the only 1 that can get things done on a grand scale, or maybe you're just too scared to lose your community.

All of these feelings are understandable.

All of these beliefs are understandable that you would believe However, whatever the reason that is holding you back from saying something and doing something and bringing others around you to do something to make a difference.

These choices that we have made in the past to do nothing or to stay silent have left many abuse victims to fend for themselves and pick up the pieces of their lives in darkness alone.

And your choice to not be alone has severe consequences for these very same abuse survivors.

My journey has been 1 of healing.

It has not been easy.

I've had to go inward very deeply inward in order to go outward again.

My world had to become very small in order for me to open it up again.

I had to let certain friendships go, deepen other ones, and proactively find new ones.

I had to work very hard to do body work, DBT therapy, and many hours of talk therapy, and group therapy, and coaching and so many people in a village I created around me to help me heal over the past couple of years in order for my brain to find relief and my body to be able to rest.

It's still a work in progress, because trauma affects all of us differently, but it felt like for me for a very long time, like a heavy back pack that I was carrying around in an already difficult time of COVID and raising teenagers and online school and having to switch careers and losing my community.

I healed through walks with my husband, bilateral movement that allowed us to tell our stories, in ways that would help defragment our brain from all the fragmentation of trauma and help rewire it in ways that we could find healing.

But it's because we didn't have an NDA that I was able to speak to many others that I shared my story with and in sharing my story they were able to say to me, I believe you.

And I'm heartbroken with you, and it was every time I heard those words that a little bit more healing came into my heart and my body my mind and my soul.

Mindfulness has been my friend, and that is not an easy friend to befriend for me.

Mindfulness has been very hard, and I don't find it easy even now.

And as I've paid attention to my senses and the world around me, I've discovered new ways the Holy Spirit has spoken to me through mindfulness and through being aware of how my body is a temple that God himself can dwell in, and God's spirit is with me in a special way because I've taken the time to heal and the song the song Psalm 23 as sung by Bobby Mcfarin has been played on Spotify repeat many many times to help my autonomic nervous system calm.

In order to prepare for difficult interviews or speaking out, I still have to do hard work to keep my body healed and working through that trauma when I share parts of my story because that is what trauma does even with all of this work going through a 6 month cohort with other abuse survivors meeting weekly and ending in a retreat in Puerto Rico after 6 months at a retreat center, all of the work that I've done, and I still have to do work on myself to keep healing because it is such a long journey.

And so I say all of this to say that I have a lot of privilege, and I have a platform, and I want to use this platform in a way to call us to action because no 1 should have to walk through this kind of trauma.

As an individual or as a family because of abuse by a pastor at a church and a church in a denomination that continues to cover up abuse.

I call on echo Church to release the NDAs, and I call on the Southern Baptist convention and people and faith communities everywhere, to center survivors, to listen to survivors, to give the the gift of believing survivors as a credible story when they come to you.

With less power than the 1 who was abusing them, especially in cases where it's an abusive power allegation.

And when we center survivors and give accountability to those who have power over them, who have abused their power, then we can find healing as a community, trust in our systems, and faith that is restored in the church that has caused so many to feel broken and question so many things in their lives.

So I call on the SBC to hold abusers accountable.

To center survivors, to release NDAs, and to no longer give NDAs, and to continue to bring up stories with the fullness of the story instead of the spin and the false narratives and the image management that we've seen.

It's time it's past time to let the truth set us all free.