Transcript
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Welcome to the A World of Difference
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podcast. I'm Lori Adams Brown and this is
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a podcast for those who are different and
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want to make a difference. We have a very
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exciting guest on the show today who's
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making such a difference around the world.
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Cordell Carter is on the show. Cordell is
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currently the executive director of the
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Aspen Institute Socrates Program, which is
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a global education forum. And he's also
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the founding director of the Aspen
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Institute's Project on Belonging. He also
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founded the Festival of the Diaspora in
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Medellin, Colombia. And he basically has
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been in all kinds of different leadership
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roles, as you could imagine, with the
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Techtown Foundation, Bill and Melinda
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Gates Foundation, Seattle Public Schools
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Business Roundtable, National alliance to
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Public charter Schools, and the IBM
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Corporation for the Aspen Institute. He
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curates more than three dozen off the
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record leadership seminars annually in
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capital cities around the world, reaching
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more than 1000 leaders each year. He's
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also been leading the Aspen Institute's
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efforts to shift the national conversation
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on racial equity and inclusion from
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compliance to the word belonging. And he
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has a lot of work around belonging. And he
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does this via an annual Latin American
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based summit called the festival the
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Diaspora. So he's on today to talk about
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all his work around belonging, what he's
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been doing and all his travels. He's going
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to be calling in from where he's at
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currently in Kenya and Nairobi. But his
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work does take him all around the world
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and as a thought leader and a difference
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maker, bringing him on the show today just
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to hear about his work and how we can
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center around some of what he's doing to
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make a difference together. So welcome to
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the show today. Cordell Carter. Hello,
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Cordell, thank you so much for joining us
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today, all the way from Nairobi, Kenya.
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It's a pleasure. How are you, Laurie?
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Doing very well. Excited to get into this
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conversation, know, getting to know you a
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little bit better. You clearly are such a
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high achiever. We have a lot of high
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achievers that come on the podcast, but
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you're making a difference in all kinds of
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areas. So super excited to unpack that. I
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think my first question out the gate for
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you is, did you ever imagine yourself at
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the Aspen Institute with the Socrates
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program, any of this project on belonging,
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all the stuff you're doing when you were a
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little Cordell, what was he wanting to be
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when he grew up? Did he ever imagine a
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scenario like. Know as a little guy, I
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thought being a lawyer or a pastor was
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like the highest calling that one could do
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and realized that pastoring definitely
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wasn't my bag just different temperament
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than my forefathers. So they had something
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else that I don't have. But the best thing
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to me, this idea of serving humanity. And
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I feel very fortunate that I get to do
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that. And so, in a way, it's a secular
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calling. Yeah, I would love to unpack all
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of that a little more, too. So tell us a
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little bit about your family. So you come
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from a faith background with pastors in
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your family? Oh, yeah. It hits every
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generation pretty hard, especially the men
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on my father's side of the family. And
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broken the mole in two respects. One, I
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did not formally serve in the military,
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whereas virtually all of them did. And
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then I also moved away from the ancestral
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home in Virginia because my dad didn't
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want us to say that we've only been in one
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place our whole life. And so we moved to
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Seattle when I was in middle school and
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just starting high school, just to
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experience a different part of the know,
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different cultures, different, just
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differences, and learn to embrace them all
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and get comfortable in new places. And so
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from childhood, that's one of the
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hallmarks, if you will, this notion that
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they're forcing us to be different and
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accept differences by physically moving
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you around. But also, I also got to see
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great examples of service, and it's often
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the quiet, non published acts, holding a
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door open, being respectful when someone
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is asking for money, treating them like a
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human being, rather than saying no, or I
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acknowledge that you exist, my answer is
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still no, but I acknowledge that you
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exist. Or here's where some services can
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be found. If you truly are hungry, there's
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places where you can get food. And so you
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have to know what those places are in
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order to be able to dish that advice. And
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so I've seen service everywhere in my
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life, and very little of it now, as I
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think about it, was in a religious,
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religious context. This is how you serve
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humanity. Beautiful. So beautiful. Yeah. I
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don't know if you're a person. That still
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has faith. I am a person of faith. But I
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also find that sometimes in my own faith
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background, people want to separate the
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sacred and the secular to a degree that it
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doesn't resonate as much with me, because
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I did spend time in paid ministry. I was a
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pastor for a while. Even, and now I work
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in global leadership development and tech.
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And I find that just as you're saying,
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expressing care for humanity, it doesn't
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have to have any sort of label or job
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description. And sometimes outside the
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walls of our religious institutions are
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where some of the most beautiful things
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happen. What has been your experience with
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any of that. Watching that light come on
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in, people, like, when they start to see
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themselves the way you see them, just as
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full of potential, have been among the
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most rewarding. I get the opportunity to
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select leaders for programs at the ASP
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Institute, as a commissioner for the
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President Commission on the White House
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Fellowship. And so I'm constantly
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inundated with leaders, or aspiring
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leaders, and you start to pick the ones
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that are not raising their hands with
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those that don't feel worthy enough to
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raise their hand, and you start to project
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what could be on them. And watching them
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believe it and run with it, to me, is
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among some of the most rewarding work
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ever. I think back to just this past
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March. We were the festival diaspora in
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Cartageno, Colombia, and we just had
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perhaps one of the most moving panels
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ever. And it was these five entrepreneurs,
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all women, that were part of our pitch
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competition, that were the fiNalists, and
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we wanted to hear from them. So we put on
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the device so we could hear the
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translation. And they talked about how
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this is the first time in their lives as
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adults, as college educated people, that
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they'd ever been invited to a stage in
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their own country. And it took an external
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organization, the festival diaspora, to
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tell them that they belong. And we were so
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moved, all 200 of us, pretending like
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we're not crying in that crowd, that we
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saw that mix of the secular and the
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sacred, because I said, I need someone to
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stand in front of the door, because no one
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is leaving. We're raising an offering for
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these women right now, and we raised
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$30,000 US right there in an hour. Wow.
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And create that didn't exist. And now that
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organization is called Casanovacion, and
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they're now an independent nonprofit. They
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have staff. I know because my daughter
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interned, formed this past. They're doing
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entrepreneurial boot camps all over
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Colombia for women who would never have
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access to this type of material. They're
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recruiting people from all over the
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country to deliver world class content and
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then have it translated. And it's just a
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game changer, but it started off from one
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act, right? One act, and a willingness for
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the people to also believe with me what's
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possible for those women if we do
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something, and we did, and they are now
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doing something far, far greater than our
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imaginations. It warms my heart to think
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about that story, because that literally
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just happened in March. It just happened
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in March, yeah. And here we are, November.
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And that group has really blown up. It's
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been fantastic. Wow. Oh, that's so moving
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and impactful and inspiring. I grew up in
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Venezuela, and so a lot of Colombian
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friends, both in Venezuela from when I was
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growing up, because back in the. In
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Venezuela, Colombians were coming to
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Venezuela for a better life. Now it's
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reverse, right? Yeah. Also just around the
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world, wherever I've lived, Colombians, it
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seemed to have been there, like in
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Singapore, had some good friends. And
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anyway, in the Spanish is similar enough
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to ours, and we both eat idios and
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everything. But I think that my work here
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in California, one of the things I've
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become aware of is when it comes to just
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like even equal pay for equal work, that's
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still something women don't have access to
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in a lot of jobs. But in California, our
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statistics are for Latina women,
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especially low. So I think it's like 72,
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something like that. Cents to the dollar
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for a woman compared to a white man. But
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for a Latina, I think it's something like
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$0.42 here in California, which is just
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abhorrent, actually, and horrifying
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because we do have a lot of Latinas. We
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just finished our. I work for a company.
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It has really great DEI focus. And so we
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had some speakers come in during the
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Hispanic Heritage Month to help know
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understand a whole lot more. And I just
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got back from one of our manufacturing
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sites near Memphis, where we do have a lot
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of, actually, Venezuelans who've
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immigrated, who are working in the
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manufacturing area, as well as a lot from
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all around Central and South America. And
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I'm aware here, just because of the work
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in tech and knowing, understanding a lot
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of VCs, and how women are so very
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underfunded when it comes to venture
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capitalists. So that story is incredibly
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impactful on so many levels. How would you
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describe your mission as it relates to
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women in particular? Yeah, well, I'm on
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this journey towards recall, belonging,
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and it came upon me as I was trying to
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think, how can I be responsive to what my
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CEO asked me to do, which was to create an
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external program. I said, wow, I'm not a
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DNI specialist, and we probably should
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hire one if that's what you want. Well,
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I'm looking for someone that understands
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the Aspen Institute, and you understand
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how we work and our programs. So I need
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you to put that thinking to this obvious
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gap that we, you know, I started digging
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in, and what I discovered is that there's
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so many people in the DNI space, so many
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organizations, that one or two things are
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going to happen. One is that we are going
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to take air out of the room for people who
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deserve it. More than we who've been at it
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for a very long time. But because we're a
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much better known organization, we're
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going to win or two. We're not going to
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add value. And so a waste of all this
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brand and we're just one of many. We're
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not moving the ball forward down the
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field. And so I kind of took a step back
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and said, okay, well, where is the
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conversation going? We've been talking
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about diversity, equity, inclusion since
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the late 60s under the Nixon
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administration when he started requesting
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a census of all the federal contractors.
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Just want to know who was doing work with
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the government. And now that we know that
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the federal government is one fifth of GDP
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in terms of purchase their goods and
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services, that's a big question. Every
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single Fortune 2000 company has the
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government as a customer, which I always
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found interesting because these also folks
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who don't want to pay taxes. I'm like,
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well, how do you think the government
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funds the work they do? It baffles me.
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Whatever baffles me as a maybe I'm not
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doing the right logic exercise. My point
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is, it was apparent to me that the puck is
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heading away from that which triggers
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towards that which unites. And the
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language that unites for me is belonging.
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Because it's really easy to say, well,
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here's DNI. You're not talking to me. I'm
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a middle aged white man. You're not
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referencing me. But if I say, well, we're
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talking about belonging and thriving, I
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think years have to perk because who
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doesn't want to belong and who doesn't
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want to thrive? Now, there are many who
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want to belong, but don't want anyone else
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to belong. But it is completely
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inappropriate to voice it out loud. Okay,
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so you kind of got them. It's like those
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that recalcitrant. You kind of got them.
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And then with respect to women, we cannot
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afford to move forward as an economy
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without engaging and encouraging and
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cultivating 52% of the population. Just,
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we don't have the horses. So it's not a
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moralistic argument for me at all. This is
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like, well, how does one maintain your
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economic power for the long haul? We got
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to pull in the same direction for
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everyone. So whatever my hang up is on
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women or people who would look different
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from me, I'm going to have to get over it
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because this is about a fiduciary duties
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as leaders. And frankly, because we know
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how damaging discriminatory behavior can
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be to one's bottom line, it becomes a
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fiduciary duty that people behave in a
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certain way, a way that's acceptable to
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the current morals of our society. And so
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if you imagine being a board of director
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and knowing that your CEO, who the only
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person that you manage is intentionally
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not engaging a particular customer set
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just because he or she doesn't like the
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way they look, sound, their national
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origin, this is not a person you can keep
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on board because they're clearly not
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thinking with your and a company's future
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in mind, they should know what the
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customers 35 years down the road is going
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to look like. And trust me, they're not
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going to look like the current ones. All
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right? And so you got to figure out where
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it's going. It's obviously going towards
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more diversity if you look at any
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demographic study. And so doesn't it make
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sense to start investing now? That is not
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corporate wokeness. That's you exercising
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your fiduciary duties as an executive,
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knowing down the road what your customer
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is going to look like. And so I think as
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we get people to change the words they're
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using, it becomes a lot easier to do the
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right thing, becomes a lot more defensible
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because I get it. You get a lot of
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pressure right now. There are several US
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senators sending notes to corporate
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leaders that have been outspoken on their
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work with respect to diverse customer
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sets, saying, hey, with this anti
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permaction ruling, you now can't do that.
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They're really extending the logic. I
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don't think they're correct. And most
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companies are saying that's not what our
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legal analysis holds. We believe that
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you're a little off on this one, so we're
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going to keep moving forward. Moreover,
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here's the data where our customers are.
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So if you have a better idea for how I can
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manage my fiduciary duty with respect to
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my customers, I am all ears. But if you
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don't really, I think you got a lot of
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legislating to do. You should focus on
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that. Yeah, absolutely. I think it just
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brings up the point. Number one, what you
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mentioned know the fiduciary side of
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things. I mean, we have, case in point
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this summer we had Taylor Swift raising
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the economy all by herself. She just
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became a billionaire, right? Making music
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about the lived experience of growing up a
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girl and becoming a. Like, this is half
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the world, right? And then you have
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Beyonce also crushing it, also raising the
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economy as well. You have the Barbie
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movie, a movie that centers women,
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directed by women, written by women, about
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the experience of women, centering women.
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And guess what? People wanted to see that
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there is something about the economy,
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where centering experiences of other
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people is something people want. But at
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the same time, when we're talking about
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making a difference, I think you're also
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making the point that, and I would highly
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agree, that change happens in a lot of
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different spaces, and coming together is
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really important. So we have nonprofits
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doing incredible work. We have government
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that has an incredible role in terms of
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how they make laws and how they enforce
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those laws. And then we have tech
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companies that are extremely influential
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with social media and can either
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contribute to great nation building
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exercises, or they can destroy the society
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from our young girls on Instagram all the
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way up until adulthood. Right. And so
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there is this opportunity for us to come
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together to do good and make a difference
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together. But there's so many opinions and
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very opposing ones. As you're working on
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belonging and you're at the Aspen
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Institute Socrates program and working
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through all these things, how have you
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overcome some of those obstacles? Yeah,
406
00:18:31,854 --> 00:18:33,774
well, we've had to do some internal work.
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Like, for instance, there's a thing we
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say, no mantles. We're putting together
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slates of moderators all the time. Love
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00:18:41,586 --> 00:18:47,346
that. Often publishers are. You can't just
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go with what you're capable with. I happen
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to know mostly men. Okay. And if I were
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just to pick a slate of three moderators
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to do concurrent seminars, I'm going to
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look across my network. That's, like, the
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first thing I do, what I've asked my team
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to do over the last several years. I said,
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number one, let's co create this. That's
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number one, because you also have
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networks. Number two, just because I get
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super excited about these two, like, say,
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00:19:17,102 --> 00:19:21,434
hey, Cordell, have you considered, please
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push back against me to make sure that
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we're fulfilling or at least accomplishing
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the optical challenge? Like, this is the
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00:19:29,950 --> 00:19:32,914
aspect we can't put out three men as our
427
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standard bearers for this particular
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event. No, we're not going to do that. And
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so let those panels reflect the diversity
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of our country. So it requires more work,
431
00:19:43,462 --> 00:19:46,774
no doubt. But this is good work. This is
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00:19:46,774 --> 00:19:50,214
good work. It forces us to move beyond the
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comfort levels. And what we're finding is
434
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that those new people that we bring in
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beget more people, people we wouldn't,
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because their networks are now part of our
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00:20:00,230 --> 00:20:02,830
work. And you find it actually becomes
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easier to find diverse groups of
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00:20:08,074 --> 00:20:10,126
moderators and participants just because
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those people bring something new to the
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table. And so it's harder work up front,
442
00:20:14,818 --> 00:20:18,066
but it's easier on the back end, for sure.
443
00:20:18,066 --> 00:20:22,734
Yeah, that makes sense, which is passion
444
00:20:22,734 --> 00:20:25,410
projects becoming its own robust
445
00:20:25,410 --> 00:20:28,482
organization. If you look across economic
446
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development, you say, okay, what's the
447
00:20:29,986 --> 00:20:32,706
fastest way for a country to develop?
448
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Invariably, it's going to be develop their
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women, because there is more women. And in
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so many ways, they're the glue that hold
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these communities together. And as you
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know, in know, it is a lot easier for men
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to have access to venture funding, to
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entrepreneurial support systems. And so
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creating that for women has been a focus
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of the festival, starting in Puerto Rico,
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moving to Colombia, now we have a
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permanent office in Medellin, and now
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we're moving forward to Rio de Janeiro and
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being exposed to those entrepreneurial.
461
00:21:08,850 --> 00:21:10,446
You know, you have a funder. Our main
462
00:21:10,446 --> 00:21:11,966
funder is Black Ambition, which is
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Pharrell Williams nonprofit. He funds the
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prize money for the pitch competitions.
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And then we pick the panelists that are
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going to judge. And so we're constantly,
467
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every year, being exposed to a new crop of
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female entrepreneurs. And the hope is that
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five years down the road, all these
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cohorts from different countries are
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starting to come together and be a part of
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each other's lives, be part of each
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other's supply chain, and creating more
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economic opportunity for themselves and
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their communities. And this is just
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talking about 30 women at a time in these
477
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different countries. But I think the
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impact you can have is massive with that
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focus effort. And so we're super excited
480
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about that particular line of work as
481
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,586
well. That is very exciting. I just can't
482
00:22:01,586 --> 00:22:02,978
wait to see some of the things that come
483
00:22:02,978 --> 00:22:09,206
out of obviously, Latina women, even here
484
00:22:09,206 --> 00:22:11,734
in California, as I mentioned, have even
485
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less opportunity. But if we just look at
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00:22:14,150 --> 00:22:15,766
women as a whole, even in California,
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where I live, venture capitalism is not
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something women have as much access to.
489
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It's definitely a bro club, for sure. And
490
00:22:23,146 --> 00:22:25,500
there is a lot of performance bias around
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that. I also just want to unpack some of
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the. Your efforts are really shifting sort
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00:22:31,338 --> 00:22:33,674
of this national conversation on racial
494
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equity, though, and inclusion from both
495
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compliance to belonging. Could you share
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some of your key strategies and
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initiatives you've been helping to work
498
00:22:41,534 --> 00:22:43,246
through to sort of achieve some of this
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shift? And what are your obstacles that
500
00:22:44,686 --> 00:22:48,130
you're still working through? Yeah. So,
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number one, I call it dispassionate
502
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passion. I should say less interested in
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an emotional, spiritual, moral obligation
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to do the right thing as one that's more
505
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focused on fiduciary duty and improving
506
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shareholder growth, to me, that's a safer
507
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place to be. I need something else to
508
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motivate folks. And so I'm like, we have
509
00:23:18,778 --> 00:23:21,302
to be able to connect the work of
510
00:23:21,302 --> 00:23:24,254
inclusion and equity to the bottom line of
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whatever your organization is. So I don't
512
00:23:26,386 --> 00:23:28,686
know if you know, about six months ago,
513
00:23:28,686 --> 00:23:31,310
there was a lot of chief DNI officers
514
00:23:31,310 --> 00:23:37,374
losing their. Yes, yes. Big impact. Huge.
515
00:23:37,374 --> 00:23:40,418
Right. And what I was discussing, many of
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these former executives, they lack budget,
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they lack team, and more importantly, they
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00:23:46,926 --> 00:23:48,898
lack the obvious connection to the P L
519
00:23:48,898 --> 00:23:50,630
profit and loss of their organization.
520
00:23:50,630 --> 00:23:53,538
Yeah. I think your job, you're doing a job
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00:23:53,538 --> 00:23:57,254
that's focused on inclusion or sales. You
522
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have to be able to show how this effort
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00:24:00,134 --> 00:24:04,026
drives a particular metric. That's what
524
00:24:04,026 --> 00:24:06,554
your boards are looking at. Like, you take
525
00:24:06,554 --> 00:24:08,966
away all the politics, all of the
526
00:24:08,966 --> 00:24:11,146
emotional fervor of a particular issue. At
527
00:24:11,146 --> 00:24:13,382
the end of the day, either you're driving
528
00:24:13,382 --> 00:24:14,958
revenue or you're a cost center. If you're
529
00:24:14,958 --> 00:24:17,166
a cost center, you're nice to have and so
530
00:24:17,166 --> 00:24:20,394
you're not nice to be had. Okay. And you
531
00:24:20,394 --> 00:24:23,726
can't blame for that. They are amoral.
532
00:24:23,726 --> 00:24:26,606
They have to be amoral. We're trying to
533
00:24:26,606 --> 00:24:29,550
force them not to be, but they have to be
534
00:24:29,550 --> 00:24:32,654
amoral in order to, I think, make some
535
00:24:32,654 --> 00:24:35,902
tough calls that maybe do not stem from
536
00:24:35,902 --> 00:24:37,678
patriotism or particular bit of politics,
537
00:24:37,678 --> 00:24:40,706
but is good for their shareholders. So
538
00:24:40,706 --> 00:24:41,846
that's number one. What's your connection
539
00:24:41,846 --> 00:24:44,038
to PNL? And I increasingly drive that.
540
00:24:44,038 --> 00:24:46,086
What are the metrics? So my questions have
541
00:24:46,086 --> 00:24:49,682
absolutely changed. Number two, we have to
542
00:24:49,682 --> 00:24:51,130
nurture what I call professional learning
543
00:24:51,130 --> 00:24:53,098
community of leaders that are interesting
544
00:24:53,098 --> 00:24:54,966
issues. They are not chief diversity at
545
00:24:54,966 --> 00:24:57,706
inclusion officers, they're executive VPs
546
00:24:57,706 --> 00:25:01,786
of XYZ. But they care about these issues.
547
00:25:01,786 --> 00:25:03,366
You have to be able to give them some
548
00:25:03,366 --> 00:25:05,230
tools that they can use that are easily to
549
00:25:05,230 --> 00:25:07,642
apply to your industry and their
550
00:25:07,642 --> 00:25:08,846
organizations that make sense for them.
551
00:25:08,846 --> 00:25:10,686
Things that are defensible. You don't want
552
00:25:10,686 --> 00:25:13,486
them out on a limb on these things. And so
553
00:25:13,486 --> 00:25:14,990
that is something that we can definitely
554
00:25:14,990 --> 00:25:18,466
do as think tank and Aspen Institute. We
555
00:25:18,466 --> 00:25:20,066
are great conveners. We can convene these
556
00:25:20,066 --> 00:25:23,714
people together. So that's number two. The
557
00:25:23,714 --> 00:25:27,446
third thing that we're finding is that
558
00:25:27,446 --> 00:25:31,094
people are looking for opportunities to
559
00:25:31,094 --> 00:25:32,498
talk about the best practices, that
560
00:25:32,498 --> 00:25:35,640
they're orientation on big public stages.
561
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,454
Okay? They want a pat on the back. It's
562
00:25:38,454 --> 00:25:41,106
important. They want their CEO to be well
563
00:25:41,106 --> 00:25:43,674
positioned to speak about the amazing
564
00:25:43,674 --> 00:25:45,274
things his or her company are doing in
565
00:25:45,274 --> 00:25:47,978
this regard. And so we have to continue to
566
00:25:47,978 --> 00:25:50,006
provide those spaces. So this is what the
567
00:25:50,006 --> 00:25:52,090
festival of Diaspora is. It's a global
568
00:25:52,090 --> 00:25:56,286
stage in Latin America. We're working on
569
00:25:56,286 --> 00:25:58,640
two or three large convenings here in the
570
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,926
US, along with some other partners that
571
00:26:00,926 --> 00:26:05,394
can feature various aspects of inclusion
572
00:26:05,394 --> 00:26:10,590
and belonging. But I believe to my very
573
00:26:10,590 --> 00:26:12,978
core that we are all after the same thing,
574
00:26:12,978 --> 00:26:15,274
that we want to live society where we all
575
00:26:15,274 --> 00:26:17,158
belong and enjoy equitable opportunities
576
00:26:17,158 --> 00:26:21,160
to thrive. One of our problems is that we
577
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,674
have went Hogwell on DNI, and it's a
578
00:26:24,674 --> 00:26:27,640
strategy. We never define a destination.
579
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,906
Okay. Compliance or making sure you do
580
00:26:30,906 --> 00:26:33,670
your census every year. No, it's to make
581
00:26:33,670 --> 00:26:37,020
society a more fair, just place. But no
582
00:26:37,020 --> 00:26:39,882
one has gone there, so we're trying to go
583
00:26:39,882 --> 00:26:42,166
there. This is where the puck is going,
584
00:26:42,166 --> 00:26:45,290
belonging and thriving. And so let's start
585
00:26:45,290 --> 00:26:47,774
celebrating that right now. And that's
586
00:26:47,774 --> 00:26:49,502
what a lot of the work that I do on the
587
00:26:49,502 --> 00:26:51,978
project of belonging is focused on. It's
588
00:26:51,978 --> 00:26:54,634
focused on that. How do we get to this
589
00:26:54,634 --> 00:26:56,466
endpoint? And so I'm trying. Last thing,
590
00:26:56,466 --> 00:26:58,514
and I'll mention is I would like to build
591
00:26:58,514 --> 00:27:01,662
out a cohort experience for people to go
592
00:27:01,662 --> 00:27:03,922
deep on two things. One is, well, three
593
00:27:03,922 --> 00:27:05,378
things. One is American history. I think
594
00:27:05,378 --> 00:27:08,222
we have an amazing story. I call it
595
00:27:08,222 --> 00:27:11,218
becoming Republic. In fact, it's one of my
596
00:27:11,218 --> 00:27:12,898
signature seminars. I just did one for a
597
00:27:12,898 --> 00:27:15,574
private equity firm last week in New York,
598
00:27:15,574 --> 00:27:18,054
and the book is forthcoming. And it's this
599
00:27:18,054 --> 00:27:21,114
idea of looking last 148 years of American
600
00:27:21,114 --> 00:27:23,162
history and asking yourself three
601
00:27:23,162 --> 00:27:25,386
questions, who is we? How is our notion of
602
00:27:25,386 --> 00:27:26,954
we evolved? And thirdly, where do we go
603
00:27:26,954 --> 00:27:31,242
from here? And then I notice that we never
604
00:27:31,242 --> 00:27:33,902
ask anything of Americans. We just say,
605
00:27:33,902 --> 00:27:35,406
okay, you have a blue passport. You're
606
00:27:35,406 --> 00:27:37,678
good. You're one of us. There's no notion
607
00:27:37,678 --> 00:27:40,782
of national service. The question
608
00:27:40,782 --> 00:27:42,462
President Kennedy asked, ask not what your
609
00:27:42,462 --> 00:27:43,458
country do for you, what you can do for
610
00:27:43,458 --> 00:27:45,950
your country. That seems anathema. And
611
00:27:45,950 --> 00:27:48,494
Pollyanna. No, that's a real thing.
612
00:27:48,494 --> 00:27:51,054
Democracies take work, and it's a co
613
00:27:51,054 --> 00:27:53,006
creative enterprise. And so, just
614
00:27:53,006 --> 00:27:56,658
reminding people through book excerpts,
615
00:27:56,658 --> 00:28:01,122
it's all text based speeches and asking
616
00:28:01,122 --> 00:28:03,206
provocative questions. Where are you going
617
00:28:03,206 --> 00:28:05,378
as a leader? What is your leadership
618
00:28:05,378 --> 00:28:08,086
style? How is this impacting you? I see
619
00:28:08,086 --> 00:28:11,202
that America, as a great enterprise, and
620
00:28:11,202 --> 00:28:12,726
founding generations, there's been
621
00:28:12,726 --> 00:28:15,894
multiple, in my view, are part of that co
622
00:28:15,894 --> 00:28:19,706
creation process. And it's our time know,
623
00:28:19,706 --> 00:28:23,040
what are we going to do to make this a
624
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,542
much better version of what it was when we
625
00:28:26,542 --> 00:28:31,934
found it? And so it calls for some tough
626
00:28:31,934 --> 00:28:34,034
questions. But at least three times a
627
00:28:34,034 --> 00:28:36,690
month, I'm working with either executive
628
00:28:36,690 --> 00:28:39,758
team, boards of directors, or just a
629
00:28:39,758 --> 00:28:41,362
smaller group of leaders that want to
630
00:28:41,362 --> 00:28:44,370
learn together on these very issues. Via
631
00:28:44,370 --> 00:28:46,466
that particular exercise, becoming an
632
00:28:46,466 --> 00:28:49,542
inclusive republic. And so people want to
633
00:28:49,542 --> 00:28:52,134
learn from each other. They do. People
634
00:28:52,134 --> 00:28:57,206
want to be inspired by what we could be.
635
00:28:57,206 --> 00:28:59,254
They find it really hard to separate the
636
00:28:59,254 --> 00:29:01,754
politics from everything. They find it
637
00:29:01,754 --> 00:29:04,394
really like, I'm losing that. This isn't a
638
00:29:04,394 --> 00:29:07,594
zero sum game. And I'm like, guys, the
639
00:29:07,594 --> 00:29:10,506
opportunity that is America is if it were
640
00:29:10,506 --> 00:29:13,994
a pie, you wouldn't have enough spoons in
641
00:29:13,994 --> 00:29:16,798
the world to possibly swoop it all. Like,
642
00:29:16,798 --> 00:29:18,526
you can have ten spoons and you're just
643
00:29:18,526 --> 00:29:20,318
the stuff and you're laying in the hole
644
00:29:20,318 --> 00:29:22,174
that you created in the pie. And there's
645
00:29:22,174 --> 00:29:24,126
people you see just laid out all around
646
00:29:24,126 --> 00:29:26,674
you. That's the bounty that is the United
647
00:29:26,674 --> 00:29:29,220
States of America. So let's celebrate
648
00:29:29,220 --> 00:29:30,914
that. You don't even really have to worry
649
00:29:30,914 --> 00:29:32,766
about sharing. It doesn't really matter if
650
00:29:32,766 --> 00:29:34,722
you're sharing. There's plenty for others.
651
00:29:34,722 --> 00:29:36,446
Okay. There's plenty. It's like I was in a
652
00:29:36,446 --> 00:29:38,498
Savannah yesterday, and as far as I can
653
00:29:38,498 --> 00:29:40,706
see, in every single direction was just
654
00:29:40,706 --> 00:29:42,018
Savannah. And there's giraffes and there's
655
00:29:42,018 --> 00:29:43,574
zebra and the wildebeest and the lions are
656
00:29:43,574 --> 00:29:46,358
right here. And they're know a teepo that
657
00:29:46,358 --> 00:29:49,074
he just killed. But no, like, look,
658
00:29:49,074 --> 00:29:51,622
they're good. Look, there's millions of
659
00:29:51,622 --> 00:29:54,794
animals here, so we're good. There's stuff
660
00:29:54,794 --> 00:29:57,382
right now. We can continue eating this
661
00:29:57,382 --> 00:29:59,286
grass. You got to think like that. The
662
00:29:59,286 --> 00:30:00,710
wildebeest aren't going to run from every
663
00:30:00,710 --> 00:30:03,566
lion because there's plenty of wildebeest
664
00:30:03,566 --> 00:30:04,846
and there's plenty of lion. There's plenty
665
00:30:04,846 --> 00:30:07,454
of opportunity. And so if I can get folks
666
00:30:07,454 --> 00:30:11,530
to focus on us being this asset rich
667
00:30:11,530 --> 00:30:14,778
environment we really are, and that no one
668
00:30:14,778 --> 00:30:17,010
is taking something from you by them
669
00:30:17,010 --> 00:30:19,218
achieving. I don't know where. Well, I do
670
00:30:19,218 --> 00:30:21,426
know where it came from, but I should say
671
00:30:21,426 --> 00:30:25,406
I know how it continues. It's very
672
00:30:25,406 --> 00:30:28,966
lucrative politically to cause separation,
673
00:30:28,966 --> 00:30:33,206
to pit people against each other. I just
674
00:30:33,206 --> 00:30:35,126
need some people to be statespersons and
675
00:30:35,126 --> 00:30:36,550
to care about where we're going as a
676
00:30:36,550 --> 00:30:38,146
country more than what they personally are
677
00:30:38,146 --> 00:30:42,234
getting out of that transaction. There I
678
00:30:42,234 --> 00:30:44,666
go, preaching. There you go. There you go.
679
00:30:44,666 --> 00:30:48,554
We got you on a pulpit. Yeah. No, that's
680
00:30:48,554 --> 00:30:50,810
so fascinating. Just to hear from your
681
00:30:50,810 --> 00:30:53,766
perspective and your vantage point. I
682
00:30:53,766 --> 00:30:55,530
lived in Asia for 20 years. I grew up in
683
00:30:55,530 --> 00:30:56,926
Latin America, so I grew up in Venezuela
684
00:30:56,926 --> 00:30:59,006
and Costa Rica, in international schools
685
00:30:59,006 --> 00:31:00,734
with friends and teachers from everywhere.
686
00:31:00,734 --> 00:31:03,790
Right. And then I lived in Asia for 20
687
00:31:03,790 --> 00:31:05,898
years, working in Indonesia for ten years
688
00:31:05,898 --> 00:31:08,126
and Singapore for ten years. And in
689
00:31:08,126 --> 00:31:09,666
Singapore in particular. Just the
690
00:31:09,666 --> 00:31:14,242
government is an unusual story. They do
691
00:31:14,242 --> 00:31:17,474
have national service. It's part of what
692
00:31:17,474 --> 00:31:20,486
they did to protect themselves when they
693
00:31:20,486 --> 00:31:22,306
were no longer a British colony. And then
694
00:31:22,306 --> 00:31:24,070
Malaysia decided they also didn't want to
695
00:31:24,070 --> 00:31:25,686
be connected with Singapore. So it was
696
00:31:25,686 --> 00:31:30,006
just this little island that, in 1965,
697
00:31:30,006 --> 00:31:32,262
didn't even have running water and
698
00:31:32,262 --> 00:31:35,734
toilets. And now it's like an incredibly
699
00:31:35,734 --> 00:31:37,994
gorgeous developed place with incredible
700
00:31:37,994 --> 00:31:39,978
health care and some of the best education
701
00:31:39,978 --> 00:31:43,594
in the world. And it's a marvel. But they
702
00:31:43,594 --> 00:31:45,406
do have national service, and part of it
703
00:31:45,406 --> 00:31:46,846
is that they were needing to protect
704
00:31:46,846 --> 00:31:48,954
themselves from being vulnerable with
705
00:31:48,954 --> 00:31:51,518
Indonesia and Malaysia so close by. But
706
00:31:51,518 --> 00:31:53,562
also it became this nation building
707
00:31:53,562 --> 00:31:55,566
exercise. So one of my favorite things to
708
00:31:55,566 --> 00:31:57,234
do when I lived in Singapore was whenever
709
00:31:57,234 --> 00:32:00,434
I met a man who looked like he's old
710
00:32:00,434 --> 00:32:01,742
enough to have already finished his
711
00:32:01,742 --> 00:32:03,586
national service, which they do right out
712
00:32:03,586 --> 00:32:06,082
of their secondary school, I would usually
713
00:32:06,082 --> 00:32:10,130
ask them, what was your kind of branch of
714
00:32:10,130 --> 00:32:12,918
NS? They call it national service. And
715
00:32:12,918 --> 00:32:15,154
every time, whether it was a doctor or a
716
00:32:15,154 --> 00:32:17,174
lawyer or just anybody I was meeting, they
717
00:32:17,174 --> 00:32:20,218
would get into the story that you could
718
00:32:20,218 --> 00:32:23,014
tell was so meaningful, and it usually
719
00:32:23,014 --> 00:32:24,682
revolved around the friends they made
720
00:32:24,682 --> 00:32:27,274
during that time. Because Singapore wasn't
721
00:32:27,274 --> 00:32:30,300
at war during any of that time and hasn't
722
00:32:30,300 --> 00:32:34,206
been. They did send some troops to help us
723
00:32:34,206 --> 00:32:35,946
in Indonesia. I worked in the tsunami
724
00:32:35,946 --> 00:32:38,702
relief area, and Singapore did know a
725
00:32:38,702 --> 00:32:40,426
large contingent just to help with the
726
00:32:40,426 --> 00:32:42,830
disaster relief, which was great. But
727
00:32:42,830 --> 00:32:45,234
mostly you might have a Malay Muslim who
728
00:32:45,234 --> 00:32:50,978
was bunking with Indian Singaporean Hindu,
729
00:32:50,978 --> 00:32:54,626
or in a Chinese Singaporean Christian. And
730
00:32:54,626 --> 00:32:57,250
the thing is, they are lifelong friends.
731
00:32:57,250 --> 00:32:58,966
Usually that experience bonded them with
732
00:32:58,966 --> 00:33:00,966
one another. And so instead of a
733
00:33:00,966 --> 00:33:02,470
government that was sort of pitting them
734
00:33:02,470 --> 00:33:05,938
against one another, they really built a
735
00:33:05,938 --> 00:33:08,182
society about harmony. Now, is it perfect?
736
00:33:08,182 --> 00:33:11,686
No. There's a lot of still work to do and
737
00:33:11,686 --> 00:33:13,594
choices they've made as a social democracy
738
00:33:13,594 --> 00:33:15,994
that Americans often get kind of crazy
739
00:33:15,994 --> 00:33:17,738
about when I say they don't have freedom
740
00:33:17,738 --> 00:33:21,274
of the press and things like, um, and they
741
00:33:21,274 --> 00:33:24,006
know, have death penalty for drug
742
00:33:24,006 --> 00:33:26,046
trafficking, but it's a very safe place,
743
00:33:26,046 --> 00:33:28,314
so they've made some choices. But I
744
00:33:28,314 --> 00:33:29,598
juxtaposed that with a couple of weeks ago
745
00:33:29,598 --> 00:33:32,106
when I was in Memphis for work, leading a
746
00:33:32,106 --> 00:33:33,806
leadership summit with our company there.
747
00:33:33,806 --> 00:33:35,662
And I went to the National Civil Rights
748
00:33:35,662 --> 00:33:37,918
Museum, and they know, showing not only
749
00:33:37,918 --> 00:33:39,854
Emmett Till and what happened with him in
750
00:33:39,854 --> 00:33:43,566
Mississippi, which is horrific, but know
751
00:33:43,566 --> 00:33:45,506
enslaved peoples being brought from Africa
752
00:33:45,506 --> 00:33:47,918
on these ships to force labor camps,
753
00:33:47,918 --> 00:33:49,654
offered tobacco and cotton. And then you
754
00:33:49,654 --> 00:33:52,114
see the whole process of the civil rights
755
00:33:52,114 --> 00:33:54,454
movement that's until now, still work to
756
00:33:54,454 --> 00:33:56,726
do. And you see how even the government
757
00:33:56,726 --> 00:33:58,918
was pitting people against one another and
758
00:33:58,918 --> 00:34:01,634
how we do have this history that's very
759
00:34:01,634 --> 00:34:03,226
different than a place like Singapore that
760
00:34:03,226 --> 00:34:05,734
was bonding people together. It is a
761
00:34:05,734 --> 00:34:08,006
scarcity mentality. Yeah. What are your
762
00:34:08,006 --> 00:34:09,766
thoughts on all of that? As somebody who's
763
00:34:09,766 --> 00:34:14,910
dug into the. You know, we have example
764
00:34:14,910 --> 00:34:18,010
after example of, I should say, every
765
00:34:18,010 --> 00:34:20,574
generation of leaders in this country, of
766
00:34:20,574 --> 00:34:25,074
the masses seeking to exclude and the few
767
00:34:25,074 --> 00:34:28,354
and brave amongst them saying, no, we have
768
00:34:28,354 --> 00:34:31,886
to include. And so I reflect back to the
769
00:34:31,886 --> 00:34:34,178
Declaration of Independence, and it's one
770
00:34:34,178 --> 00:34:36,558
of the writings that I feature and
771
00:34:36,558 --> 00:34:38,386
becoming inclusive republic. And I said,
772
00:34:38,386 --> 00:34:40,406
does everyone in this room believe that
773
00:34:40,406 --> 00:34:42,722
the men in this room and that room in
774
00:34:42,722 --> 00:34:45,078
Philadelphia in 1776 had full command of
775
00:34:45,078 --> 00:34:47,334
the English language, as far as we know?
776
00:34:47,334 --> 00:34:48,886
They look at me, I said, and I asked the
777
00:34:48,886 --> 00:34:51,750
question again, did they mean what they
778
00:34:51,750 --> 00:34:54,074
wrote? Yeah. Did they have the power to
779
00:34:54,074 --> 00:34:55,946
change the words? And I go through the
780
00:34:55,946 --> 00:34:58,586
list of synonyms like, we hold the truth
781
00:34:58,586 --> 00:34:59,766
to be self evident. That wasn't the
782
00:34:59,766 --> 00:35:01,210
original word. The original word was
783
00:35:01,210 --> 00:35:03,642
sacred life, liberty, in pursuit of
784
00:35:03,642 --> 00:35:04,766
happiness. Happiness was not the original
785
00:35:04,766 --> 00:35:06,686
word. The original word was property. So
786
00:35:06,686 --> 00:35:09,210
it was clear that they were a larger
787
00:35:09,210 --> 00:35:13,282
audience. They could have said just us,
788
00:35:13,282 --> 00:35:15,666
that only us room, only people who like
789
00:35:15,666 --> 00:35:18,754
us. They left the door open. Okay? And
790
00:35:18,754 --> 00:35:23,586
that aspirational document is how we build
791
00:35:23,586 --> 00:35:26,058
our garner, our sense of character, of
792
00:35:26,058 --> 00:35:27,878
national character. This is what we aspire
793
00:35:27,878 --> 00:35:30,486
to. It's a non legally binding document.
794
00:35:30,486 --> 00:35:32,594
The Constitution binds us together,
795
00:35:32,594 --> 00:35:35,090
legally speaking. But the Declaration of
796
00:35:35,090 --> 00:35:37,090
Independence is like the mission
797
00:35:37,090 --> 00:35:39,706
statement, okay? Whereas the Constitution
798
00:35:39,706 --> 00:35:43,994
is the operational plan. And so I point to
799
00:35:43,994 --> 00:35:48,826
that example for folks to say, like, look,
800
00:35:48,826 --> 00:35:51,482
we have to exhibit some grace, because any
801
00:35:51,482 --> 00:35:55,486
nation state is part of an evolution,
802
00:35:55,486 --> 00:35:58,400
right? And yes, I would want perfection
803
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,534
today, but any human enterprise over the
804
00:36:01,534 --> 00:36:04,114
last 300,000 years of written human
805
00:36:04,114 --> 00:36:08,226
history, we know is imperfect, right? But
806
00:36:08,226 --> 00:36:10,754
we get to call it like we see it. We get
807
00:36:10,754 --> 00:36:14,526
to acknowledge our part, or our
808
00:36:14,526 --> 00:36:16,226
victimhood, if you will, in this
809
00:36:16,226 --> 00:36:18,806
particular enterprise, and we get to work
810
00:36:18,806 --> 00:36:23,926
to make it better. And so I see that as
811
00:36:23,926 --> 00:36:27,734
the redemption story for our civic faith
812
00:36:27,734 --> 00:36:30,358
that we can be better, and, frankly, that
813
00:36:30,358 --> 00:36:33,686
we have an obligation to work towards that
814
00:36:33,686 --> 00:36:36,722
which is better. And that's why I'm so
815
00:36:36,722 --> 00:36:40,026
motivated by the call to belong. I think
816
00:36:40,026 --> 00:36:43,886
it's the right approach because I don't
817
00:36:43,886 --> 00:36:48,478
think there's any such thing as a group of
818
00:36:48,478 --> 00:36:52,446
people moving in spite of their peers. And
819
00:36:52,446 --> 00:36:56,474
I take particular umbrage to any D I
820
00:36:56,474 --> 00:36:58,538
professional that is intentionally
821
00:36:58,538 --> 00:37:01,298
excluding middle aged white men, number
822
00:37:01,298 --> 00:37:03,586
one. From a standpoint, it doesn't make
823
00:37:03,586 --> 00:37:07,666
sense. According to Sherm, 89% to 90% of
824
00:37:07,666 --> 00:37:09,238
all executive roles, regardless of sector,
825
00:37:09,238 --> 00:37:10,706
are held by white men. So essentially,
826
00:37:10,706 --> 00:37:12,950
you're asking leaders who champion
827
00:37:12,950 --> 00:37:14,962
something that does not allow them to
828
00:37:14,962 --> 00:37:18,798
replicate what human, you know, does that.
829
00:37:18,798 --> 00:37:21,274
Nobody. Nobody does that. And that's not
830
00:37:21,274 --> 00:37:24,186
them being racist, being a human. Okay. I
831
00:37:24,186 --> 00:37:26,666
want to survive, too. Right. This isn't
832
00:37:26,666 --> 00:37:28,330
just about you feeling great about
833
00:37:28,330 --> 00:37:31,938
yourself. And so I think it's an instant
834
00:37:31,938 --> 00:37:33,966
failure as a person focused on inclusion
835
00:37:33,966 --> 00:37:35,994
to not be inclusive in your. It's an
836
00:37:35,994 --> 00:37:39,726
instant failure. Okay? Start over, go back
837
00:37:39,726 --> 00:37:42,734
to school, do whatever. But if you change
838
00:37:42,734 --> 00:37:45,946
the wording a bit and change the tone,
839
00:37:45,946 --> 00:37:48,734
lead with data and then lead with the
840
00:37:48,734 --> 00:37:50,926
aspirational document, all of a sudden
841
00:37:50,926 --> 00:37:52,946
that's a room that's warming up to you.
842
00:37:52,946 --> 00:37:55,794
This is why I think it is safer to start
843
00:37:55,794 --> 00:37:57,314
with where we've been and where we're
844
00:37:57,314 --> 00:38:00,438
going as a nation at the 30,000 foot view,
845
00:38:00,438 --> 00:38:02,978
and then start working your way down in
846
00:38:02,978 --> 00:38:04,614
altitude till you're getting to, like,
847
00:38:04,614 --> 00:38:07,186
what can you actually do different here at
848
00:38:07,186 --> 00:38:10,506
organization, Acme and company to change
849
00:38:10,506 --> 00:38:14,934
the game? Okay, but we get right to.
850
00:38:14,934 --> 00:38:18,938
You're wrong and you're exclusive, and you
851
00:38:18,938 --> 00:38:20,906
have to change something immediately. And
852
00:38:20,906 --> 00:38:23,260
we haven't convinced them on the need to
853
00:38:23,260 --> 00:38:27,966
change. You got to sell it. And we're not
854
00:38:27,966 --> 00:38:30,960
trying to include. And no wonder we're
855
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:34,078
still pushing this boulder up the hill.
856
00:38:34,078 --> 00:38:36,954
You would think it's better now, politics
857
00:38:36,954 --> 00:38:38,306
aside, so there's really nothing you can
858
00:38:38,306 --> 00:38:41,300
do about that. You just not elect those
859
00:38:41,300 --> 00:38:43,154
people. But clearly, there's a lot of
860
00:38:43,154 --> 00:38:45,222
people in this country who feel like those
861
00:38:45,222 --> 00:38:47,766
people speak for them and they are leading
862
00:38:47,766 --> 00:38:51,830
with grievances and they're leading with
863
00:38:51,830 --> 00:38:56,038
exclusion. And so I don't know how much
864
00:38:56,038 --> 00:38:58,166
you can do to change those hearts and mind
865
00:38:58,166 --> 00:39:00,170
besides just coming back with data and
866
00:39:00,170 --> 00:39:05,846
compassion. But frankly, it's like
867
00:39:05,846 --> 00:39:07,146
dinosaurs who don't know the meteorite has
868
00:39:07,146 --> 00:39:10,346
hit and the environment has changed, and
869
00:39:10,346 --> 00:39:11,866
why are we all running this way? I don't
870
00:39:11,866 --> 00:39:15,154
get it. I'm going to yell as I run to
871
00:39:15,154 --> 00:39:16,366
extinction. I don't know. It's like you
872
00:39:16,366 --> 00:39:18,298
got to wait from the die, I guess, because
873
00:39:18,298 --> 00:39:19,898
they're just not willing to change.
874
00:39:19,898 --> 00:39:23,534
They're not willing to let go of what was
875
00:39:23,534 --> 00:39:26,014
or what they hope to be. And we got to
876
00:39:26,014 --> 00:39:28,418
move forward as a people, as a nation. We
877
00:39:28,418 --> 00:39:30,066
got to move forward. We just don't have
878
00:39:30,066 --> 00:39:32,946
the energy to keep convincing people that
879
00:39:32,946 --> 00:39:34,498
this is something that's good for
880
00:39:34,498 --> 00:39:36,820
everyone. We just have to live it and be
881
00:39:36,820 --> 00:39:40,886
it. Yeah. So true. Yeah. Winning hearts
882
00:39:40,886 --> 00:39:43,414
and minds is a particular strategy and we
883
00:39:43,414 --> 00:39:45,174
need a lot of think tanks around that to
884
00:39:45,174 --> 00:39:47,510
go back to the basics, the foundation of
885
00:39:47,510 --> 00:39:49,626
what humans are actually all about, like
886
00:39:49,626 --> 00:39:52,714
you said. And we all want to belong. That
887
00:39:52,714 --> 00:39:56,682
is an innate part of humanity. Probably
888
00:39:56,682 --> 00:39:58,314
gets really obvious and peaks somewhere
889
00:39:58,314 --> 00:40:00,234
around eigth grade. There's something
890
00:40:00,234 --> 00:40:01,878
about middle school. You see these eigth
891
00:40:01,878 --> 00:40:02,886
graders, they're just all trying to
892
00:40:02,886 --> 00:40:04,918
belong. But honestly, all of us throughout
893
00:40:04,918 --> 00:40:07,066
our lives just need that kind of
894
00:40:07,066 --> 00:40:08,478
belonging. It's part of the human
895
00:40:08,478 --> 00:40:10,526
experience and our development. So thank
896
00:40:10,526 --> 00:40:12,046
you for putting it that way. Thank you for
897
00:40:12,046 --> 00:40:14,510
the work that you do. It's really
898
00:40:14,510 --> 00:40:16,658
inspiring. As we're finishing out this
899
00:40:16,658 --> 00:40:18,274
part of the interview, we will keep you on
900
00:40:18,274 --> 00:40:21,006
later for our Patreon, the difference
901
00:40:21,006 --> 00:40:23,474
maker community, but please let us know
902
00:40:23,474 --> 00:40:25,346
how we can find you and continue to follow
903
00:40:25,346 --> 00:40:28,710
you and your writing and your speaking.
904
00:40:28,710 --> 00:40:31,526
Yes, please look up the Socrates program
905
00:40:31,526 --> 00:40:33,222
at the Aspen Institute, Google. It's only
906
00:40:33,222 --> 00:40:36,278
one of us. Secondly, look up the festival,
907
00:40:36,278 --> 00:40:38,626
the diaspora, or diaspora how you
908
00:40:38,626 --> 00:40:42,234
pronounce it. We do annual events and
909
00:40:42,234 --> 00:40:43,738
starting to really get into global talent,
910
00:40:43,738 --> 00:40:46,314
which I think is amazing. And then just
911
00:40:46,314 --> 00:40:48,022
find me on LinkedIn. That's how I
912
00:40:48,022 --> 00:40:50,334
communicate mostly. Most of my videos and
913
00:40:50,334 --> 00:40:53,242
everything are there. And that's Cordell
914
00:40:53,242 --> 00:40:58,042
Carter II or two. The second out on
915
00:40:58,042 --> 00:41:01,006
LinkedIn. Google me. It's either me or
916
00:41:01,006 --> 00:41:02,946
some folks from Tennessee because I got my
917
00:41:02,946 --> 00:41:04,946
name from Cordell hall, former Secretary
918
00:41:04,946 --> 00:41:10,340
of State, Forty S. So you'll find both out
919
00:41:10,340 --> 00:41:14,222
there. Love that. Yes. Everybody follow
920
00:41:14,222 --> 00:41:15,586
Cordell. Thank you so much for being on
921
00:41:15,586 --> 00:41:17,622
the show today. And thank you for the
922
00:41:17,622 --> 00:41:20,326
difference that you're making. Thank you.
923
00:41:20,326 --> 00:41:21,446
Thank you for the difference you're making
924
00:41:21,446 --> 00:41:24,790
as well. Loved that conversation. Love the
925
00:41:24,790 --> 00:41:29,642
focus on belonging. Was so glad that he
926
00:41:29,642 --> 00:41:32,986
really explained how some of the DEI work
927
00:41:32,986 --> 00:41:36,310
in a lot of tech companies or
928
00:41:36,310 --> 00:41:39,414
organizations has missed sometimes a
929
00:41:39,414 --> 00:41:41,218
component of belonging. I know a lot of
930
00:41:41,218 --> 00:41:45,226
DEI programs added the letter B onto it,
931
00:41:45,226 --> 00:41:48,346
Deib for adding belonging, or even J for
932
00:41:48,346 --> 00:41:50,234
justice. But even just pulling out the
933
00:41:50,234 --> 00:41:52,486
aspect of belonging and focusing on it
934
00:41:52,486 --> 00:41:55,762
exclusively, there's so much conversation
935
00:41:55,762 --> 00:41:58,514
around that and so much to unpack there.
936
00:41:58,514 --> 00:42:01,426
And so really enjoyed his perspective on
937
00:42:01,426 --> 00:42:04,066
all he's seen in the different spaces
938
00:42:04,066 --> 00:42:07,026
where he works and the different people he
939
00:42:07,026 --> 00:42:10,934
interacts with at the different parts of
940
00:42:10,934 --> 00:42:14,166
his world. Right. The Aspen Institute
941
00:42:14,166 --> 00:42:17,302
working in goes. He mentioned Brazil, he
942
00:42:17,302 --> 00:42:20,054
mentioned he's in Africa. His work is sort
943
00:42:20,054 --> 00:42:22,698
of global in this way. But also for those
944
00:42:22,698 --> 00:42:24,522
in the United States and certain tech
945
00:42:24,522 --> 00:42:25,722
companies where you've seen this sort of
946
00:42:25,722 --> 00:42:28,310
thing happen, it is such an important
947
00:42:28,310 --> 00:42:30,842
conversation how to frame it in a way that
948
00:42:30,842 --> 00:42:34,234
really is including people into this area
949
00:42:34,234 --> 00:42:39,578
of full. That's a. It's a very difficult
950
00:42:39,578 --> 00:42:41,294
conversation, but it's such an important
951
00:42:41,294 --> 00:42:43,806
one that we don't want to give up on
952
00:42:43,806 --> 00:42:45,698
because bringing us all to the table with
953
00:42:45,698 --> 00:42:47,378
all of our differences is how we're going
954
00:42:47,378 --> 00:42:50,674
to get there. I really appreciated him
955
00:42:50,674 --> 00:42:53,346
talking about the work he's doing with
956
00:42:53,346 --> 00:42:58,218
women in Colombia and having grown up in
957
00:42:58,218 --> 00:42:59,734
Venezuela, having many Colombian friends
958
00:42:59,734 --> 00:43:02,006
from my time growing up as a little girl
959
00:43:02,006 --> 00:43:04,360
there that are lifelong friends to this
960
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,174
day, also, just the Colombians I know here
961
00:43:07,174 --> 00:43:09,530
in California, the ones I've known in
962
00:43:09,530 --> 00:43:11,882
Singapore, but also just Latin American
963
00:43:11,882 --> 00:43:13,754
women in general, whether they're still
964
00:43:13,754 --> 00:43:15,286
living and working in Latin America or
965
00:43:15,286 --> 00:43:18,074
they've come to other continents for work
966
00:43:18,074 --> 00:43:22,780
or for just immigration reasons, I know
967
00:43:22,780 --> 00:43:26,766
that there are so many obstacles in the
968
00:43:26,766 --> 00:43:31,486
way of the way women from Latin America
969
00:43:31,486 --> 00:43:33,294
can be viewed, at least here in
970
00:43:33,294 --> 00:43:35,886
California, with a lot of stereotypes. And
971
00:43:35,886 --> 00:43:37,666
it's heartbreaking. It's wrong. I know a
972
00:43:37,666 --> 00:43:41,410
lot of incredible women working in tech
973
00:43:41,410 --> 00:43:45,554
who are Latinas, and when I see them
974
00:43:45,554 --> 00:43:50,242
facing obstacles like stereotypes and even
975
00:43:50,242 --> 00:43:52,402
worse, a lot of microaggressions and
976
00:43:52,402 --> 00:43:54,786
macroaggressions, it's so infuriating and
977
00:43:54,786 --> 00:43:57,014
heartbreaking all at once. And so just
978
00:43:57,014 --> 00:43:59,034
seeing the work that he's doing there,
979
00:43:59,034 --> 00:44:00,426
also, I really want to unpack one of the
980
00:44:00,426 --> 00:44:06,182
things he said around this sort of
981
00:44:06,182 --> 00:44:09,942
stereotype and very harmful stereotype
982
00:44:09,942 --> 00:44:15,466
around seeing a woman of color or a white
983
00:44:15,466 --> 00:44:17,134
woman, I mean, this is a stereotype that
984
00:44:17,134 --> 00:44:21,594
might face all women in any work
985
00:44:21,594 --> 00:44:23,442
environment, but to assume that because
986
00:44:23,442 --> 00:44:29,380
she got a promotion that she did so around
987
00:44:29,380 --> 00:44:33,410
that sexualizing her, to assume that that
988
00:44:33,410 --> 00:44:35,460
happened because she had to sleep with
989
00:44:35,460 --> 00:44:38,006
someone to get that promotion or even that
990
00:44:38,006 --> 00:44:42,598
that narrative exists is exhausting for a
991
00:44:42,598 --> 00:44:46,262
lot of women to have to be perceived that
992
00:44:46,262 --> 00:44:48,690
way. But also infuriating. And I just want
993
00:44:48,690 --> 00:44:50,714
to be clear, that is a stereotype we never
994
00:44:50,714 --> 00:44:53,098
want to give into, and we don't even want
995
00:44:53,098 --> 00:44:58,906
to entertain that thought. So do women get
996
00:44:58,906 --> 00:45:01,190
in situations where they are experiencing
997
00:45:01,190 --> 00:45:03,562
abuse of power from a boss in the
998
00:45:03,562 --> 00:45:06,014
workplace? Yes. Is there sexual abuse that
999
00:45:06,014 --> 00:45:08,046
happens in the workplace? Yes, but that's
1000
00:45:08,046 --> 00:45:10,286
not exclusively what's happening. And so
1001
00:45:10,286 --> 00:45:13,246
in order to clear that whole thing up, it
1002
00:45:13,246 --> 00:45:15,406
would be important for us to unpack that
1003
00:45:15,406 --> 00:45:17,314
as a community. And I just want to be
1004
00:45:17,314 --> 00:45:18,706
really clear on that. That I don't find
1005
00:45:18,706 --> 00:45:21,906
that whole narrative to be helpful at all.
1006
00:45:21,906 --> 00:45:24,146
So it's so important for us to be involved
1007
00:45:24,146 --> 00:45:26,926
in work like what's happening with VC
1008
00:45:26,926 --> 00:45:29,222
funding to go toward Latino women as they
1009
00:45:29,222 --> 00:45:31,014
are being entrepreneurial and trying to
1010
00:45:31,014 --> 00:45:33,398
start businesses. So I'd love to hear more
1011
00:45:33,398 --> 00:45:35,014
of your perspective in this community
1012
00:45:35,014 --> 00:45:37,746
around how we can do better with that,
1013
00:45:37,746 --> 00:45:41,130
because that is something that is
1014
00:45:41,130 --> 00:45:44,666
incredibly imbalanced. We see that all the
1015
00:45:44,666 --> 00:45:47,146
time here in Silicon Valley with people
1016
00:45:47,146 --> 00:45:49,414
who are entrepreneurial and so much of the
1017
00:45:49,414 --> 00:45:54,046
VC capital funding going toward men and
1018
00:45:54,046 --> 00:45:57,546
the outcomes of that being so over time
1019
00:45:57,546 --> 00:45:59,134
detrimental to women and their families
1020
00:45:59,134 --> 00:46:02,174
and Latina families in general. So, yeah,
1021
00:46:02,174 --> 00:46:03,326
would love to know more about your
1022
00:46:03,326 --> 00:46:07,986
thoughts around that. And always reach out
1023
00:46:07,986 --> 00:46:10,382
to talk to me either through DMs on
1024
00:46:10,382 --> 00:46:14,114
Twitter or. This is another chance for you
1025
00:46:14,114 --> 00:46:15,726
to. Want to join us in our difference.
1026
00:46:15,726 --> 00:46:17,218
Maker community because we go deeper, and.
1027
00:46:17,218 --> 00:46:18,806
We'Re going to go deeper in a conversation
1028
00:46:18,806 --> 00:46:21,766
with Cordell. He stays on to talk a little
1029
00:46:21,766 --> 00:46:24,358
more deeply about some things that we tend
1030
00:46:24,358 --> 00:46:26,280
to talk more about in the difference maker
1031
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:28,274
community. So for those of you who haven't
1032
00:46:28,274 --> 00:46:29,686
joined in there yet, you can join for as
1033
00:46:29,686 --> 00:46:32,266
little as $5 a month. We'd love to have
1034
00:46:32,266 --> 00:46:34,218
you pop in there and go deeper in this
1035
00:46:34,218 --> 00:46:35,478
particular conversation because I think
1036
00:46:35,478 --> 00:46:39,306
it's a really important one. Also, if you
1037
00:46:39,306 --> 00:46:42,714
have not yet found a therapist and you're
1038
00:46:42,714 --> 00:46:44,014
looking for one, and you're walking
1039
00:46:44,014 --> 00:46:45,694
through anything in your life personally
1040
00:46:45,694 --> 00:46:48,350
right now, I know many of you in this
1041
00:46:48,350 --> 00:46:50,522
community are either it's compassion
1042
00:46:50,522 --> 00:46:52,480
fatigue, you've worked through some sort
1043
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:55,266
of personal relationship with someone that
1044
00:46:55,266 --> 00:46:57,650
you just needed a little extra help, or
1045
00:46:57,650 --> 00:46:59,806
maybe you're in a situation where you've
1046
00:46:59,806 --> 00:47:03,086
walked through trauma, either because of
1047
00:47:03,086 --> 00:47:04,526
nonprofit work that you're working in and
1048
00:47:04,526 --> 00:47:07,134
you've experienced a disaster, or you've
1049
00:47:07,134 --> 00:47:10,006
experienced some kind of civil unrest, I
1050
00:47:10,006 --> 00:47:11,574
know many of you listening to this podcast
1051
00:47:11,574 --> 00:47:13,890
have had to be evacuated in different
1052
00:47:13,890 --> 00:47:16,054
situations. I myself and my family have
1053
00:47:16,054 --> 00:47:18,694
gone through that as well, more than once.
1054
00:47:18,694 --> 00:47:21,014
And so a lot of times we just need a
1055
00:47:21,014 --> 00:47:23,386
professional to talk about things with. So
1056
00:47:23,386 --> 00:47:25,866
the sponsor of this podcast is Betterhelp.
1057
00:47:25,866 --> 00:47:28,618
And so if you go to BetterHelp.com
1058
00:47:28,618 --> 00:47:30,860
difference, you can get 10% off your first
1059
00:47:30,860 --> 00:47:32,746
month. Once again, they're the sponsor of
1060
00:47:32,746 --> 00:47:35,278
this podcast, and I myself personally have
1061
00:47:35,278 --> 00:47:37,946
been very much helped by my therapist at
1062
00:47:37,946 --> 00:47:39,214
Betterhelp. And they have all kinds of
1063
00:47:39,214 --> 00:47:41,994
other resources, not just one on one
1064
00:47:41,994 --> 00:47:43,826
therapy, but group therapy and classes you
1065
00:47:43,826 --> 00:47:46,254
can take around specific issues, whether
1066
00:47:46,254 --> 00:47:52,706
it's CPTSD, PTSD, walking through trauma,
1067
00:47:52,706 --> 00:47:54,718
all kinds of various forms of grief and
1068
00:47:54,718 --> 00:47:56,722
loss that you can be a part of communities
1069
00:47:56,722 --> 00:47:58,306
to help you walk through that. So yeah, go
1070
00:47:58,306 --> 00:48:01,766
to www.betterhelp.com difference today to
1071
00:48:01,766 --> 00:48:04,838
get 10% off your first month. And for all
1072
00:48:04,838 --> 00:48:06,246
of you out there all around the world who
1073
00:48:06,246 --> 00:48:07,814
are making a difference, thank you for
1074
00:48:07,814 --> 00:48:09,718
every single thing that you do. I hope
1075
00:48:09,718 --> 00:48:11,430
that you get some rest and take care of
1076
00:48:11,430 --> 00:48:13,334
yourself because all of you out there
1077
00:48:13,334 --> 00:48:15,350
making a difference often don't prioritize
1078
00:48:15,350 --> 00:48:17,186
yourself. So this is your friendly
1079
00:48:17,186 --> 00:48:19,686
reminder to care for yourself and that
1080
00:48:19,686 --> 00:48:21,806
when you do that that will help you to be
1081
00:48:21,806 --> 00:48:23,374
the kind of person you want to be to keep
1082
00:48:23,374 --> 00:48:26,106
making a difference. So yeah, friendly
1083
00:48:26,106 --> 00:48:27,582
reminder to do something good for yourself
1084
00:48:27,582 --> 00:48:29,806
today, to make your body feel good, to get
1085
00:48:29,806 --> 00:48:32,478
some rest that you might need and to find
1086
00:48:32,478 --> 00:48:34,366
something that just brings you happiness
1087
00:48:34,366 --> 00:48:37,390
and joy. And as always keep making a