Transcript
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Welcome to the a World of Difference
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podcast. I'm Lori Adams Brown, and this is
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a podcast for those who are different and
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want to make a difference. Today we have
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an author on the show who has released a
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book called unlearning how to speak your
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mind, unleash talent, and live more fully.
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It's by Elaine Lin Hering and I'm so
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excited to have her on the show today
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because her book has been so impactful for
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me. I have been reading it on a recent
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airplane ride for one of the trips I was
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making for work, and I just could not put
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it down. Elaine, her writing is so
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compelling. She's written this very
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thoughtful book about her own voice, what
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it means to silence and unlearn and
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continue the process of unlearning silence
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that we have heard in so many spaces. So
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Elaine is a facilitator, a speaker, and a
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writer. She works with organizations and
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individuals to build skills in
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communication, collaboration, and conflict
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management. In her career, Elaine has
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worked on six continents and with a wide
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range of corporate, government, and
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nonprofit clients. So she is our people.
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She has trained mental health
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professionals, political officials,
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religious communities, and leaders at
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companies including American Express,
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Capital one, Google, Nike, Novartis,
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Shell, Pixar, and the Red Cross. Elaine is
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a former managing partner of Triad
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Consulting Group and a lecturer at Harvard
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Law School, specializing in dispute
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resolution, mediation and negotiation. She
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is so intelligent. She is really a genius
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at writing about this concept of voice and
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unlearning silence because she brings in
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her own personal narrative and her own
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vulnerability, but also really readily
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admits that even in her own life, there
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are ways that she has become aware that
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she is silencing others even in the midst
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of having been silenced herself. She also
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brings in her whole perspective as someone
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who immigrated here from Taiwan. Her
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family came to Taiwan, from Taiwan to the
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United States, and just that whole
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immigrant experience and how often we see
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silencing happen in those communities. And
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it's just this book is. I cannot recommend
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it more. So we're gonna unpack it today.
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I'm so excited to have on the show, Elaine
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Lin Hering Well, welcome, Elaine, to the
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World of Difference podcast. I'm so
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excited to dig into this book and get to
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know you a little bit better today. But,
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yeah, welcome over there in Berkeley.
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Thanks so much for having me. Of course,
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yes, I've really enjoyed reading your
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book, which I read on an airplane recently
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on one of my travels, unlearning silence,
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how to speak your mind, unleash talent and
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live more fully. This book was just so
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full of insight and also helped me realize
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some things about myself that I think that
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anyone reading it would. And so I love how
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you very vulnerably dig into this for
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yourself. But I always like to here on the
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podcast, start with questions to help us
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get a little bit more information about
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who you are and your background. And so I
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know that you have a bit of Taiwan in your
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background. I recently got back from
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Taiwan. Actually, one of my direct reports
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is in Taiwan. I was onboarding her there,
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and she's wonderful. But I'd love to know
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a little bit about the cultures and places
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that formed you as we kind of get started
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on this interview with you. Absolutely. I
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am the youngest daughter of an immigrant
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family from Taiwan to the United States.
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So I was born in Taiwan, but basically
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grew up in California. That maybe explains
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why I wrote a book about silence. I also
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grew up in the christian church, and a lot
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of the messages were distilled to me as
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turn the other cheek, be the bigger
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person. Right? So you have all these
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threads of immigrating, trying to
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assimilate into a country so that you
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foster and experience a sense of belonging
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as the youngest daughter against a
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patriarchal culture. I am less than my
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brother because boys, men are prized more,
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traditionally speaking. And I try to be
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clear about what happened later in life
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and in the book. And then certainly a lot
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of that. Culture is just anytime you are
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asking a question, pushing back, even
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having a difference of opinion to people
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who are older than you, you are
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disrespectful. And so that, to me, created
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a really strong relationship with silence
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of to be respectful, to be a good person,
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to be kind means to bite your tongue and
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not say anything. And, of course, I
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watched Bambi when I was five, and Bambi
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said, if you don't have anything nice to
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say, say nothing at all. And I took that
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to heart. And how many of us do? And we'll
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get into the rest of it? Yes, absolutely.
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This is something I know that our
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audience, both in the west and in Asia,
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who've had any sort of cross cultural
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experience going back and forth between
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those two locations will resonate with or
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just anyone who's been raised in a
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collectivist society and then also kind of
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like, landed in an individualistic
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society, kind of how we are here in the
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US. But, you know, there are so many
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beautiful things about both cultures, and
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yet this whole concept of silence is sort
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of very nuanced in all of these places and
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spaces. And when you bring in this
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intersectionality of just the christian
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church and growing up there and so much to
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unpack there, which we do a lot on this
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podcast as well. There's so many voices
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saying, you know, and encouraging your
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silence. But I think that, you know, my
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first really question for you after this
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is, what is silence? How would you
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describe it? Yeah, the lawyer in me is
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really happy that you asked that because I
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love a good definition of terms,
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particularly because there is such value
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to certain types of silence. Right. All
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meditation, key religions of the world,
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that pause between stimulus and response.
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We need more of that silence to get to
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slow thinking, to reflective thinking, and
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many of us could use more of that in the
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world. But the silence that I'm talking
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about here and wanting us to collectively
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unlearn is when there's not enough space
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in the conversation or in the room or in
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the relationship for who you are, for your
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thoughts, preferences, needs, goals, hopes
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and concerns. It's when you're not invited
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to the meeting and you didn't think you
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could ask. It's when you self censored and
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didn't actually say what you thought
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because the voices in your head already
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told you it's not worth it or you're going
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to get made fun of. And all of that means
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that we need to silence ourselves, both
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what we think, but particularly as women
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or anyone who carries a subordinated
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identity, meaning you're not part of the
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dominant culture, whatever context you're
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in, it means that your own needs aren't
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getting met. And we walk around as shells
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of the people that we could be. That's not
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even to start to think about the
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difference that we could make if we were
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actually free to be the people that we are
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or were meant to be. Yeah, it's a lot to
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consider in all of the places and spaces
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where we are, whether it's work,
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community, family, faith based spaces, you
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know, politics, government, all of it is
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so intertwined with all of this. I know. I
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underline, I underline so many parts of
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your book that just, you know, I would
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read it and I would say, oh, my gosh, and
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I'd have to sit there and reflect on it
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for a little bit because it just, it makes
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you think about a lot of existential
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questions about just how we live and why
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and why we do certain things. But like
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early on in the book, on page five, you
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say, what messages have you internalized
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about who gets to speak and be heard and
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whose voice matters? What reflective
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habits have you developed around using
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your own voice or supporting others
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voices? And, yeah, I just, as you thought
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through some of those things for yourself.
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How has that played out in your own life
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when you consider those questions? Yeah, I
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think origin stories are always helpful.
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So, you know, I, growing up as an
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immigrant in the United States, was often
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told in this individualistic society,
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speak up, speak up, speak up. And then,
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yet when I did, I was too loud, I was
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wrong. I was then too quiet, and you sort
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of can't ever get it right. And really
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thought, you know, then there's the
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professional aspect of my life, where I
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spent more than a decade teaching skills
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for negotiation. Difficult conversations,
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giving and receiving feedback across
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industries, across continents. And despite
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those tools and frameworks that my
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colleagues at the Harvard negotiation
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project created being sound, some people
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still wouldn't negotiate or have the
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difficult conversations, give and receive
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feedback. And I started to wonder, why is
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that? And to me, the missing piece really
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is silence. What role does silence play on
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our teams? In what ways have I
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internalized those messages over time such
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that saying, you know, taking a nike
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approach to say, just do it, just speak
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up, doesn't actually work. Right. We have
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these voices in our heads that are
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screaming, but I can't. People like me
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don't do that. Or I've had really negative
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lived experiences from speaking up. So
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there's a cognitive dissonance to what
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you're telling me. Best practice is to my
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own lived experience, and then what am I
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supposed to do? And to me, the problem of
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whether you get heard, whether you have an
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impact, whether you make a world of
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difference, has that that problem has been
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misdiagnosed. Right? A lot of times, the
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problem statement has been presented as if
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you're not being heard. You need to have
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more courage. You need to have more
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confidence. If you could speak up louder,
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more clearly, use fix yourself, then you
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would get heard. Versus in what ways have
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I learned silence? There's certainly
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personal responsibility and accountability
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of what I'm doing, whether or not I'm
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sharing my thoughts and my gifts. But none
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of us live and exist in isolation. So
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there's also the question of, in what ways
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are the often very well intentioned people
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around me, my manager, who in their heart
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of hearts wants to support me, is actually
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silencing me. And of course, we all exist
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in the backdrop of systems. So in what
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ways is silence baked into the policies
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and practices that affect all of us? So
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many of us are tired of talking about
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return to office, you know, post COVID.
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And I'd argue that the reason that that
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conversation lingered on so long is still
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having gnarly tentacles right now is
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because that is an example of one policy
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that supports certain people who have easy
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commutes, who are used to leading in
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person, who, for whom it is familiar,
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comfortable, and advantageous to go to the
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office. And it silences the people who
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benefit from flexibility. And so to take a
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more accurate look at the situation is, in
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what ways do I silence myself? In what
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ways do I silence the people around me,
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not because I intend to or because I'm a
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bad person, but because I'm human. In what
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ways is silence baked into the systems
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we're all part of? That starts to unlock
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how we can actually be seen, known, and
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heard. At work, that translates into
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unleashing talent, the best ideas coming
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forward, not just the loudest ones. And at
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home and in our interpersonal
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relationships, that is, how can we love
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each other better? Yeah, how can we love
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each other better? Wow, that's just. We're
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just gonna blow this conversation big. We
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are just like, wow. I know, right? I think
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ultimately, allowing one to have space to
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bring them their ideas, their thoughts,
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however raw or uncomfortable, where we
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suspend judgment and really listen is a
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very loving act. And, you know, I do work
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for a tech company here in Silicon Valley,
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where I go around training globally,
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which, you know, took me to Taiwan
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recently and is taking me to the UK very
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soon again. And I, you know, with all the
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cultures I interact with in this
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workspace, silencing happens, but also
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allowing people to speak happens, and you
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can see the difference in just people's
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body. So, like, one of the things I train
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on is this, and you're probably aware of
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it, but, like, Doctor Albert Mehrahbian
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did this study back in the 1970s. It's
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sort of a seminal study on communication.
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And really, only 7% of how we communicate
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is words. And there's about, like, 38 ish,
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33% in there, depending on tone and
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inflection, which is also important to
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communicate things. But really, it's that
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body language, that 55%, whatever language
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we speak, right? And so there's so much
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about bringing out someone's voice that
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means paying attention to, like, how their
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body is responding, and that's a lot of
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things to pay attention to. For a manager
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in a workspace that's very busy. And the
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way that we work in the United States or
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even when I lived in Singapore, which is a
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very, very busy, fast moving society, it's
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hard to pay attention to all those things
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and be the kind of leader or manager that
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would bring out someone in this way. So I
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think that, you know, next I would just
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love to unpack, because I think people
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don't really even understand this. Like,
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how would you describe voice? Like, what
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is voice? Yeah. Voice is not just the
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words that we say in a meeting. Voice is
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how we move through the world. And if we
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go back to us, each being human, we're all
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wired differently. So logically, it would
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make sense that we would communicate in
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different ways, that we would care about
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different things. And of course, all the
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research shows that diverse teams, if you
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can harness that diverse perspective,
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outperform homogenous teams. The question
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is, are we implicitly, unconsciously,
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forcing everybody to look and sound the
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same in order to get heard? And this is
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one of the primary ways that well
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intentioned leaders end up silencing the
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people they lead. If the prerequisite for
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being heard is that you have to speak, at
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least in corporate America, in three
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succinct bullet points, no ums, with just
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the right amount of emotion to show that
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you care, but not too much emotion, that
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you lose credibility. We get a very narrow
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slice of our employee population who is
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wired in that way. So one way that we are
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wired differently is some people process
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information best by talking out loud.
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Right, real time processing. And
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oftentimes they do a lot of talking in the
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meetings. Then there are post processors,
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and I don't know how many of our listeners
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are like that. I certainly am wired that
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way. In the meeting, you can't quite
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figure out what to say, but 20 minutes
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later you're like, oh, that's what I
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wanted to say. Right. And that often in
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our workplaces is coded as weakness rather
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than wiring. And to put those two ideas
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together, what do we do about it? Well, we
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design our communication flows, how we
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communicate, rather than default to the
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way that things have always been done. If
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someone on my team is a post processor,
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and statistically speaking, there are
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members of your team, wouldn't we want
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their ideas in the mix? And that can look
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like in a meeting. You know, the real time
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processors are processing great. We sort
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of get to what we think is going to be a
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decision. And if we planned ahead, to say,
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great, everybody sleep on it. And as
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you're post processing, if things come up,
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put it in slack or put it on this email
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thread, right. Being really specific about
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the channel to take the guesswork out of,
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well, you know, do I raise something? Am I
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going to look like I'm a flip flopper? You
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know, all of these things being really
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clear about this is we are actively
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designing for differences of wiring and
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communication in the way that we work
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together so that the people who type, who
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communicate more effectively by typing
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than talking, are as equally represented.
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And it's not seen as a second back seat
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conversation where you sort of need to
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jump into the front seat. It's just how we
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work together and that reducing the
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barrier to entry is one way that we can
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support voice showing up differently and
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also allowing those thoughts into the
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conversation. So good. So much to unpack
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there, and so many great, just insights
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that you're giving us. One thing that I
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noticed, and I've noticed in a previous
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workplace in particular, I worked in a
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very hostile work environment at one point
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where a lot of people ended up with NDAs.
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And, you know, kind of what you're saying
402
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is, I. I asked a question, and questions
403
00:17:37,096 --> 00:17:38,552
weren't welcome. I didn't realize, you
404
00:17:38,552 --> 00:17:39,928
know, because you kind of. There's these
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00:17:39,928 --> 00:17:42,648
unwritten rules that it looks very
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diverse. You know, there was a diversity,
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somewhat of people on staff, not as much
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diversity of women, but somewhere. And
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then there were asian american women who
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had been second, you know, first or second
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generation immigrants here in the US. And,
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you know, there's. You understand that
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dynamic very well, but it was sort of
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like, oh, these people are here, and they
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do things for us, but we don't really
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welcome their voice in every way. And I
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00:18:03,496 --> 00:18:05,000
didn't realize those kind of unwritten
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rules were there until I kind of, you
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00:18:06,504 --> 00:18:08,040
know, asked a question. And then I learned
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00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,684
really quick that was not okay. But
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00:18:10,684 --> 00:18:14,776
anyway, a lot of the conversation in that
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space, I realized, is that people just
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were completely unaware of silencing, of
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the dynamics of men, women, of these
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certain things. And so I guess the
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00:18:23,824 --> 00:18:24,960
question is, you know, we have all these
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families of origin, all of our filters,
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and our brains are unique to us based. I
429
00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:32,104
train on this, too. It's like we go
430
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through our day hearing everything through
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00:18:34,312 --> 00:18:35,992
our own unique filter. It's as unique as
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00:18:35,992 --> 00:18:39,164
our fingerprint. Right. But how do we
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learn silence typically throughout our
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lives? How does that really even take
435
00:18:43,308 --> 00:18:45,028
place? Yeah, certainly. And this is
436
00:18:45,028 --> 00:18:46,500
chapter one of the book, the silence.
437
00:18:46,500 --> 00:18:49,420
We've learned one way is in our families
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of origin. Another way is in our education
439
00:18:53,692 --> 00:18:56,028
systems, frankly. And this is where we are
440
00:18:56,028 --> 00:18:58,420
all tied into a systemic challenge. If we
441
00:18:58,420 --> 00:19:01,220
think about public schools, funding is
442
00:19:01,220 --> 00:19:02,956
linked to performance, so we're teaching
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to the tests, then we start to silence
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00:19:05,852 --> 00:19:07,372
critical thinking and creativity. And
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00:19:07,372 --> 00:19:10,788
there's a very narrow value and
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perspective of what voice is. And because
447
00:19:12,900 --> 00:19:15,804
teachers are underpaid and, you know, the
448
00:19:15,804 --> 00:19:18,028
teacher to student ratio, it starts to get
449
00:19:18,028 --> 00:19:21,068
really complex really quickly. But we also
450
00:19:21,068 --> 00:19:24,748
learn silence in school, in regurgitating
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00:19:24,748 --> 00:19:26,660
thoughts rather than thinking critically,
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or whether we were rewarded for raising
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our hand, because then you're disruptive
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then in the workplace. I mean, the silence
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is, as you said, I asked a question
456
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because I thought that's what our values
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00:19:38,258 --> 00:19:40,762
on the wall say. But clearly, that's not
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what we actually do here. And we get the
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00:19:45,162 --> 00:19:46,858
phenomenon, collective phenomenon, of
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saying nothing, which is the definition of
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organizational silence and employee
462
00:19:51,938 --> 00:19:54,050
silence, where we each do the calculation
463
00:19:54,050 --> 00:19:57,814
of, oh, it's not worth it to say something
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here, but it's also, what do we talk about
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in society? The hash metoo movement came
466
00:20:04,106 --> 00:20:06,706
about because someone said this actually
467
00:20:06,706 --> 00:20:09,018
happened, and everyone else said, oh, me
468
00:20:09,018 --> 00:20:12,082
too. But if we look at how people who
469
00:20:12,082 --> 00:20:15,146
report abuse or harassment get dragged
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through the mud, their reputations
471
00:20:17,490 --> 00:20:19,778
damaged, or whistleblowers, and the
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00:20:19,778 --> 00:20:22,602
significant impact on mental health,
473
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emotional health, relational health, the
474
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,904
whistleblower for Boeing, it seems like,
475
00:20:27,904 --> 00:20:33,360
just took his life. And that is so real.
476
00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:36,128
And the chapter three of the book is when
477
00:20:36,128 --> 00:20:38,616
silence makes sense, because the costs to
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speaking up are real. There is a utility
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to silence, to keep my job, to keep my
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seat at the table, to pay my bills. But
481
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,672
this is how we learn silence individually
482
00:20:51,672 --> 00:20:53,536
and then collectively. You know, if we're
483
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new to an organization or more junior,
484
00:20:55,384 --> 00:20:57,376
we're looking around, as you mentioned, to
485
00:20:57,376 --> 00:21:00,488
say, how do things work around here? And
486
00:21:00,488 --> 00:21:04,472
if I don't see leadership in honest,
487
00:21:04,472 --> 00:21:07,328
candid dialogue and discussion, then I
488
00:21:07,328 --> 00:21:09,320
very naturally draw the conclusion, we
489
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:11,216
don't talk about those things here. And
490
00:21:11,216 --> 00:21:13,144
that leads to groupthink, and that leads
491
00:21:13,144 --> 00:21:15,240
to basically every corporate scandal of
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00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:19,760
the last couple centuries, as well as
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00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,202
impacts on talent, engagement, and
494
00:21:22,202 --> 00:21:24,806
retention. Right? Is this somewhere that I
495
00:21:24,806 --> 00:21:29,006
can actually lend my gifts and talents, or
496
00:21:29,006 --> 00:21:31,990
am I a cog in a wheel? Am I valued here
497
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for my humanity, or am I valued here for
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00:21:34,006 --> 00:21:36,926
my utility? If the job is actually to just
499
00:21:36,926 --> 00:21:40,110
do the role, which sometimes it is, or we
500
00:21:40,110 --> 00:21:41,950
get that sense from our managers, then
501
00:21:41,950 --> 00:21:44,734
where is there room for me? And of course,
502
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life is messy. The world right now around
503
00:21:47,686 --> 00:21:50,158
us is messy. Everything we're carrying in
504
00:21:50,158 --> 00:21:51,966
interpersonal relationships and family
505
00:21:51,966 --> 00:21:54,986
dynamics is messy. And so I can understand
506
00:21:54,986 --> 00:21:58,082
from a producing widgets perspective,
507
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right, leave all that at the door. Come
508
00:21:59,850 --> 00:22:02,770
in, do your job, get paid. It's a
509
00:22:02,770 --> 00:22:04,498
transaction. Except we as human beings,
510
00:22:04,498 --> 00:22:07,634
aren't wired that way. And also
511
00:22:07,634 --> 00:22:09,106
difference, having a difference of opinion
512
00:22:09,106 --> 00:22:12,266
is the core of innovation, and being heard
513
00:22:12,266 --> 00:22:15,530
is the core of collaboration. So it takes
514
00:22:15,530 --> 00:22:18,642
us back to, well, what do I own right. In
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what ways am I editing myself, holding
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back? And am I choosing that silence? Or
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is silence the only choice for me, that to
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me, that agency is a real difference? And
519
00:22:30,306 --> 00:22:33,106
then what can we each do to create that
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00:22:33,106 --> 00:22:38,546
space for voice? Because having someone
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00:22:38,546 --> 00:22:40,946
else disrupt the bias in the conversation
522
00:22:40,946 --> 00:22:43,306
or say, hold on, I want to hear what Lori
523
00:22:43,306 --> 00:22:47,050
has to say. Let her finish. That creates
524
00:22:47,050 --> 00:22:48,562
an environment. If we're all doing that
525
00:22:48,562 --> 00:22:51,474
for each other, regardless of our
526
00:22:51,474 --> 00:22:52,922
positionality, we're creating a really
527
00:22:52,922 --> 00:22:55,152
different team dynamic than if Lori's on
528
00:22:55,152 --> 00:22:58,624
her own and I'm on my own. And you know
529
00:22:58,624 --> 00:23:00,872
what? None of us have energy to fight any
530
00:23:00,872 --> 00:23:02,280
of these battles. So we're just going to
531
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:08,872
stay silent. Yeah, I think that so many
532
00:23:08,872 --> 00:23:12,632
people listening are, you know, probably
533
00:23:12,632 --> 00:23:14,640
having memories in their minds right now
534
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:16,424
of situations that you're reminding them
535
00:23:16,424 --> 00:23:18,976
of. And, you know, I think that a question
536
00:23:18,976 --> 00:23:22,014
for a lot of us out there who are managers
537
00:23:22,014 --> 00:23:23,926
or, you know, have any sort of direct
538
00:23:23,926 --> 00:23:25,838
reports in our work, whether it's
539
00:23:25,838 --> 00:23:28,114
volunteer driven or, you know, in our
540
00:23:28,114 --> 00:23:30,302
workplace or even just parents of
541
00:23:30,302 --> 00:23:31,630
children, you know, we can definitely
542
00:23:31,630 --> 00:23:34,206
silence our children because of all the
543
00:23:34,206 --> 00:23:35,278
reasons, you know, we might be tired at
544
00:23:35,278 --> 00:23:37,198
the end of a work day, or it might be the
545
00:23:37,198 --> 00:23:39,110
child is in that why phase, and it's hard
546
00:23:39,110 --> 00:23:41,870
to kind of answer those questions. Or
547
00:23:41,870 --> 00:23:43,382
they're teenagers and they say things that
548
00:23:43,382 --> 00:23:46,118
are just like, wow, they're trying to
549
00:23:46,118 --> 00:23:47,718
explore, and it feels scary and
550
00:23:47,718 --> 00:23:49,142
uncomfortable. And so there's a lot of,
551
00:23:49,142 --> 00:23:51,486
you know, ways we could diminish the
552
00:23:51,486 --> 00:23:53,302
voices of those around us. But I guess the
553
00:23:53,302 --> 00:23:55,102
question I'm wanting to hear from you now
554
00:23:55,102 --> 00:23:58,174
is, what are ways we can sort of help
555
00:23:58,174 --> 00:23:59,766
people bring their voice to the table? And
556
00:23:59,766 --> 00:24:03,006
there are these power dynamics that exist
557
00:24:03,006 --> 00:24:05,966
as a manager, as a parent, that even if
558
00:24:05,966 --> 00:24:07,606
you say, hey, I want to hear your opinion,
559
00:24:07,606 --> 00:24:09,958
that may not be the best. And, you know,
560
00:24:09,958 --> 00:24:11,862
it may not produce the outcome we want. It
561
00:24:11,862 --> 00:24:15,222
still may. There may be fear in the
562
00:24:15,222 --> 00:24:16,742
dynamic where people wouldn't share. So
563
00:24:16,742 --> 00:24:18,558
what are some things we could do to help
564
00:24:18,558 --> 00:24:20,166
people really bring their voice to the
565
00:24:20,166 --> 00:24:23,310
table? Yeah, absolutely. So designing our
566
00:24:23,310 --> 00:24:24,662
communication patterns like we talked
567
00:24:24,662 --> 00:24:27,822
about earlier, and that literally is a
568
00:24:27,822 --> 00:24:31,582
32nd conversation, or pop that question in
569
00:24:31,582 --> 00:24:33,790
slack for post processors, and you can
570
00:24:33,790 --> 00:24:36,750
communicate about it asynchronously. What
571
00:24:36,750 --> 00:24:38,910
makes it easiest for you to share your
572
00:24:38,910 --> 00:24:41,462
thoughts and feelings? Because I care and
573
00:24:41,462 --> 00:24:43,446
want to know or whatever is appropriate
574
00:24:43,446 --> 00:24:46,334
for your context and culture so that you
575
00:24:46,334 --> 00:24:48,726
get intel. It's not to say that you can
576
00:24:48,726 --> 00:24:50,894
only then communicate with them in that
577
00:24:50,894 --> 00:24:53,030
way, but you can better understand, oh,
578
00:24:53,030 --> 00:24:54,774
when Lori chooses to slack me, that's
579
00:24:54,774 --> 00:24:56,806
because she's playing to her strengths
580
00:24:56,806 --> 00:24:59,674
rather than my default of pick up the
581
00:24:59,674 --> 00:25:02,646
phone. Then a couple of other tactical
582
00:25:02,646 --> 00:25:06,022
pieces. One is as a manager or even as
583
00:25:06,022 --> 00:25:08,014
parent. When you say, what do you think?
584
00:25:08,014 --> 00:25:10,406
That feels like a trap, right? If I'm on
585
00:25:10,406 --> 00:25:11,686
the receiving end of what do you think?
586
00:25:11,686 --> 00:25:14,230
I'm like, oh, how honest do you really
587
00:25:14,230 --> 00:25:16,646
want me to be? This didn't go over so well
588
00:25:16,646 --> 00:25:21,324
last time. But if we leverage standard
589
00:25:21,324 --> 00:25:23,600
questions and every time we're evaluating
590
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:27,016
a topic or a concern or a project, we ask
591
00:25:27,016 --> 00:25:28,760
the same questions, what are the pros of
592
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,176
this idea? What are the cons of the idea?
593
00:25:31,176 --> 00:25:32,864
What about this works? What about this
594
00:25:32,864 --> 00:25:35,712
doesn't work? What resonates? What doesn't
595
00:25:35,712 --> 00:25:37,884
resonate? You know, you're inviting the
596
00:25:37,884 --> 00:25:40,544
positive, and you're also inviting what is
597
00:25:40,544 --> 00:25:43,000
classically negative. But the standard
598
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,272
questions helps people expect that, oh,
599
00:25:46,272 --> 00:25:47,304
these are the questions we're going to
600
00:25:47,304 --> 00:25:48,960
answer in the meeting. So the post
601
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,392
processors can sort of pre process. And
602
00:25:51,392 --> 00:25:52,688
also you're signaling, I want to know
603
00:25:52,688 --> 00:25:55,064
about the cons, right? I want to know what
604
00:25:55,064 --> 00:25:57,336
doesn't resonate. That's just naturally
605
00:25:57,336 --> 00:26:01,480
what we talk about here. The other is one
606
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,204
of my favorites, which is using magic wand
607
00:26:05,204 --> 00:26:07,792
questions. So if you had a magic wand,
608
00:26:07,792 --> 00:26:09,400
what would you change? Or if you had a
609
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:11,096
magic wand, what would you do? And there's
610
00:26:11,096 --> 00:26:15,392
a whimsy to it and a cover of magic, of
611
00:26:15,392 --> 00:26:18,472
we're suspending reality. So all of our
612
00:26:18,472 --> 00:26:20,528
critical thinking and the rebuttals that
613
00:26:20,528 --> 00:26:23,396
we can come up with, our heads take a
614
00:26:23,396 --> 00:26:25,124
backseat for just a minute to say, if I
615
00:26:25,124 --> 00:26:26,868
really had a magic wand, here's what I
616
00:26:26,868 --> 00:26:29,012
want to change about our relationship. And
617
00:26:29,012 --> 00:26:29,972
when you start to push back. You'D be
618
00:26:29,972 --> 00:26:32,060
like, well, that was just magic, right?
619
00:26:32,060 --> 00:26:34,964
But that starts to invite in what people
620
00:26:34,964 --> 00:26:37,972
really think, and then you can unpack
621
00:26:37,972 --> 00:26:40,980
that. But I would say that being human
622
00:26:40,980 --> 00:26:44,884
means that it is naturally hard to listen
623
00:26:44,884 --> 00:26:47,028
to people who look and sound different
624
00:26:47,028 --> 00:26:49,744
than us, much less have different
625
00:26:49,744 --> 00:26:51,950
perspective. Right. We gravitate toward
626
00:26:51,950 --> 00:26:54,342
people who look and sound like us. There's
627
00:26:54,342 --> 00:26:56,526
a ton of research around it. It makes
628
00:26:56,526 --> 00:26:58,438
sense, particularly when we're
629
00:26:58,438 --> 00:27:02,174
oversubscribed and too busy. But we also
630
00:27:02,174 --> 00:27:04,038
know, at least intellectually, what we
631
00:27:04,038 --> 00:27:07,526
miss out on if we're only talking and
632
00:27:07,526 --> 00:27:09,774
listening to people who sound like us. So
633
00:27:09,774 --> 00:27:13,606
there is a muscle. And this is in the book
634
00:27:13,606 --> 00:27:16,062
of how to listen across difference. And
635
00:27:16,062 --> 00:27:18,190
difference isn't just difference of
636
00:27:18,190 --> 00:27:20,574
perspective, but difference of style. Can
637
00:27:20,574 --> 00:27:23,070
we listen to someone who might tear up
638
00:27:23,070 --> 00:27:25,750
when they're crying or they're talking and
639
00:27:25,750 --> 00:27:30,806
let that be okay. And as I say, an um.
640
00:27:30,806 --> 00:27:33,822
Listen to people who use ums as a pause or
641
00:27:33,822 --> 00:27:35,694
as a thoughtfulness. I mean, each of those
642
00:27:35,694 --> 00:27:38,038
things have different meanings across
643
00:27:38,038 --> 00:27:40,422
culture. And if we're shoehorning, putting
644
00:27:40,422 --> 00:27:43,342
people in a particular box, we only get a
645
00:27:43,342 --> 00:27:45,510
slice of data that is limited to the data
646
00:27:45,510 --> 00:27:48,952
set of people who look and sound like us.
647
00:27:48,952 --> 00:27:53,104
One of my hopes with the book is that I am
648
00:27:53,104 --> 00:27:55,960
lending potentially a different voice than
649
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,640
a reader's. And for those of us who have
650
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:00,376
been asked, you know, tell me what it's
651
00:28:00,376 --> 00:28:02,320
like to be asian American in corporate
652
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,592
America and we're so tired of, I get a
653
00:28:05,592 --> 00:28:08,200
little someone said edgy in the book, but
654
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,176
it's 2024. Google it right there. I've
655
00:28:11,176 --> 00:28:13,192
been a ton that has been written about it.
656
00:28:13,192 --> 00:28:15,104
So you don't need me to do the emotional
657
00:28:15,104 --> 00:28:17,120
labor. You don't need your colleague to do
658
00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:19,736
the emotional relational labor to educate
659
00:28:19,736 --> 00:28:24,376
you on top of doing their day job. But
660
00:28:24,376 --> 00:28:26,080
part of the hope of the. Book is here is
661
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:27,984
another perspective. It may not be
662
00:28:27,984 --> 00:28:30,200
comfortable, you may not agree with me,
663
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,928
but the aim is to be at least naming
664
00:28:33,928 --> 00:28:37,504
silence as a thing, because it impacts all
665
00:28:37,504 --> 00:28:40,096
of us, whether or not we want to recognize
666
00:28:40,096 --> 00:28:42,160
it. And the best thing we can do as
667
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,136
leaders or as parents, is to be cognizant
668
00:28:45,136 --> 00:28:47,904
that silence exists. And if we're not
669
00:28:47,904 --> 00:28:50,776
actively managing the role that silence
670
00:28:50,776 --> 00:28:53,688
has in our teens or in our families, it
671
00:28:53,688 --> 00:28:56,204
likely is silencing the people we care
672
00:28:56,204 --> 00:28:58,944
about. The parenting question is a really
673
00:28:58,944 --> 00:29:00,872
hard one. I have a six year old. We have a
674
00:29:00,872 --> 00:29:03,484
lot of why questions, and I am really
675
00:29:03,484 --> 00:29:08,824
tired. And even that awareness of if I
676
00:29:08,824 --> 00:29:12,032
want to raise my son in a way that signals
677
00:29:12,032 --> 00:29:13,928
to him that he has a voice, what might I
678
00:29:13,928 --> 00:29:16,556
do here? And to be really clear,
679
00:29:16,556 --> 00:29:19,028
unlearning silence does not mean saying
680
00:29:19,028 --> 00:29:21,420
everything to everyone all the time. The
681
00:29:21,420 --> 00:29:24,124
world is too complex and too noisy for
682
00:29:24,124 --> 00:29:26,572
that, because there's also what impact do
683
00:29:26,572 --> 00:29:29,620
your words have on the people around you?
684
00:29:29,620 --> 00:29:33,084
So that is very much the dance in
685
00:29:33,084 --> 00:29:37,220
parenting of here's how I see the world,
686
00:29:37,220 --> 00:29:39,784
here's the impact that you're having on
687
00:29:39,784 --> 00:29:43,058
me, or I cannot have this conversation
688
00:29:43,058 --> 00:29:45,370
right now, and I really. Care about what
689
00:29:45,370 --> 00:29:48,186
you are thinking. So let's find a time or
690
00:29:48,186 --> 00:29:51,674
a place or a way that works for both of
691
00:29:51,674 --> 00:29:54,666
us. But it is this ongoing journey, which
692
00:29:54,666 --> 00:29:57,386
is why the book is called unlearning
693
00:29:57,386 --> 00:29:59,866
silence ing. Rather than unlearn, check
694
00:29:59,866 --> 00:30:01,498
the box. We've unlearned silence. We're
695
00:30:01,498 --> 00:30:05,586
done here. Wow. Excellent point. Yeah. It
696
00:30:05,586 --> 00:30:07,584
is a process. It's hard because it's
697
00:30:07,584 --> 00:30:09,624
coming at us from all angles in all
698
00:30:09,624 --> 00:30:12,408
different ways. You talk about these three
699
00:30:12,408 --> 00:30:14,032
levers of voice. Could you unpack that a
700
00:30:14,032 --> 00:30:16,464
little bit for us? Yeah. The three levers
701
00:30:16,464 --> 00:30:20,144
for voice come from a classic negotiation
702
00:30:20,144 --> 00:30:22,168
analysis. So in the 1980s, my colleagues
703
00:30:22,168 --> 00:30:25,352
at the Harvard negotiation project noticed
704
00:30:25,352 --> 00:30:27,920
that each negotiation is actually the
705
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,512
confluence of three negotiations. You're
706
00:30:30,512 --> 00:30:32,224
negotiating about the substance, the terms
707
00:30:32,224 --> 00:30:35,592
and conditions of the deal, to say, to put
708
00:30:35,592 --> 00:30:37,976
it lightly. And you're also negotiating
709
00:30:37,976 --> 00:30:40,576
the relationship, who's in the room, how
710
00:30:40,576 --> 00:30:43,160
we feel treated, and if any of us have
711
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,528
people in our lives that we don't like, we
712
00:30:45,528 --> 00:30:49,504
know that we, hypothetically, right. If we
713
00:30:49,504 --> 00:30:51,944
don't like them, we are much less likely
714
00:30:51,944 --> 00:30:54,832
to want to work with them or to say yes to
715
00:30:54,832 --> 00:30:57,560
them. So the relationship, the level of
716
00:30:57,560 --> 00:30:59,520
trust, and how we feel treated by them
717
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,400
actually profoundly impacts the substance.
718
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:04,440
And last but not least is process, which
719
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,072
is the underestimated stepchild of the
720
00:31:07,072 --> 00:31:10,392
three process. So substance is the what,
721
00:31:10,392 --> 00:31:12,664
relationship is the who, process is the
722
00:31:12,664 --> 00:31:14,552
how. How are we working together? That's
723
00:31:14,552 --> 00:31:16,624
all the design work that we were talking
724
00:31:16,624 --> 00:31:20,088
about in terms of communication patterns.
725
00:31:20,088 --> 00:31:22,088
I looked at that from the standpoint of a
726
00:31:22,088 --> 00:31:24,056
mediator. And a mediator's job typically,
727
00:31:24,056 --> 00:31:26,936
is to hold the process so that people can
728
00:31:26,936 --> 00:31:29,222
focus on the substance. It's also to tend
729
00:31:29,222 --> 00:31:32,134
to the relationship. But to me, that
730
00:31:32,134 --> 00:31:34,422
actually serves as three levers for voice,
731
00:31:34,422 --> 00:31:36,350
because so often we think, look, I'm not
732
00:31:36,350 --> 00:31:39,302
the subject matter expert, right? This
733
00:31:39,302 --> 00:31:40,982
person has been at the company. They're
734
00:31:40,982 --> 00:31:42,518
the founder, or they've been at the
735
00:31:42,518 --> 00:31:45,270
company for 20 years. How could I possibly
736
00:31:45,270 --> 00:31:47,558
talk about the substance? Well, number
737
00:31:47,558 --> 00:31:50,150
one, you can, because you have a unique
738
00:31:50,150 --> 00:31:52,878
lens on the world and on whatever the
739
00:31:52,878 --> 00:31:54,670
subject is, right? You might just say with
740
00:31:54,670 --> 00:31:57,344
fresh eyes, or coming to this as the
741
00:31:57,344 --> 00:32:00,536
newbie and own that perspective. Your
742
00:32:00,536 --> 00:32:02,584
perspective is limited, but also
743
00:32:02,584 --> 00:32:06,176
legitimate, as is everyone else's. So what
744
00:32:06,176 --> 00:32:08,176
lens of the world are you using on the
745
00:32:08,176 --> 00:32:10,344
substance? But we get hung up on thinking,
746
00:32:10,344 --> 00:32:12,336
I don't have much to say on the substance,
747
00:32:12,336 --> 00:32:15,352
and so I don't have anything to say at all
748
00:32:15,352 --> 00:32:17,496
versus tending to the relationship. Right.
749
00:32:17,496 --> 00:32:20,336
How are people in the room feeling? Who's
750
00:32:20,336 --> 00:32:22,444
not in the room? If you're in a
751
00:32:22,444 --> 00:32:25,226
conversation with the sales team and
752
00:32:25,226 --> 00:32:26,562
engineering's not in the room, and you're
753
00:32:26,562 --> 00:32:29,218
all excited about this new approach you're
754
00:32:29,218 --> 00:32:31,786
going to take with sales, relationship
755
00:32:31,786 --> 00:32:34,898
says, wait, hold on. What is engineering
756
00:32:34,898 --> 00:32:37,042
going to think about this or what impact
757
00:32:37,042 --> 00:32:40,218
is it going to have on them? Because all
758
00:32:40,218 --> 00:32:41,898
those issues are going to come to the
759
00:32:41,898 --> 00:32:43,354
surface eventually. It's just a question
760
00:32:43,354 --> 00:32:47,682
of now or later and how painful and of
761
00:32:47,682 --> 00:32:50,154
course, process is. How, how are we
762
00:32:50,154 --> 00:32:51,562
talking about it? Are we using those
763
00:32:51,562 --> 00:32:53,610
standard questions we talked about? Or are
764
00:32:53,610 --> 00:32:57,122
we saying, what do you think? Are we
765
00:32:57,122 --> 00:33:00,234
typing? Or are we talking? And have we
766
00:33:00,234 --> 00:33:03,082
taken a break because we're at this all
767
00:33:03,082 --> 00:33:06,178
day off site and somehow think that
768
00:33:06,178 --> 00:33:08,362
togetherness is optimal, whereas all of us
769
00:33:08,362 --> 00:33:11,762
are like, we just need a bio break. We
770
00:33:11,762 --> 00:33:13,530
need to go walk around. Are we doing a
771
00:33:13,530 --> 00:33:15,494
walking meeting? All these different
772
00:33:15,494 --> 00:33:18,498
pieces actually impact outcomes and
773
00:33:18,498 --> 00:33:20,218
outcomes, our voice, how we move through
774
00:33:20,218 --> 00:33:23,220
the world. So if you're ever doubting
775
00:33:23,220 --> 00:33:25,316
whether you have anything to add a value,
776
00:33:25,316 --> 00:33:28,220
let me say it. You have value. You have
777
00:33:28,220 --> 00:33:31,252
valuable perspective and you can think
778
00:33:31,252 --> 00:33:33,140
about, are you going to comment or focus
779
00:33:33,140 --> 00:33:35,228
on substance? Are you going to comment or
780
00:33:35,228 --> 00:33:38,028
focus on relationship or comment and focus
781
00:33:38,028 --> 00:33:41,036
on process? Because we need all three. And
782
00:33:41,036 --> 00:33:44,324
all three impact what we end up doing
783
00:33:44,324 --> 00:33:47,916
together or not? That is so insightful.
784
00:33:47,916 --> 00:33:49,500
And as I think about that from somebody
785
00:33:49,500 --> 00:33:51,642
who is, you know, working in a corporation
786
00:33:51,642 --> 00:33:53,082
and has worked in nonprofits in the past
787
00:33:53,082 --> 00:33:56,034
and done a lot of off sites, and those
788
00:33:56,034 --> 00:33:57,538
three elements, I just think they
789
00:33:57,538 --> 00:33:59,114
resonate. They just make sense and they're
790
00:33:59,114 --> 00:34:01,954
not talked about. It's, there's so many
791
00:34:01,954 --> 00:34:04,066
things that aren't talked about and that
792
00:34:04,066 --> 00:34:05,242
you're bringing out in your book. And I
793
00:34:05,242 --> 00:34:07,922
think it's so valuable. And even just when
794
00:34:07,922 --> 00:34:09,450
we think about the cross cultural element
795
00:34:09,450 --> 00:34:10,714
of things, like one of the things, I don't
796
00:34:10,714 --> 00:34:13,546
know if you've ever encountered Erin Meyer
797
00:34:13,546 --> 00:34:14,946
and any of her work, she has this book,
798
00:34:14,946 --> 00:34:17,214
the culture map. Right. And so she's
799
00:34:17,214 --> 00:34:19,358
putting all these cultures on the
800
00:34:19,358 --> 00:34:20,510
spectrum. Right. And one of the ones I
801
00:34:20,510 --> 00:34:21,838
found most fascinating because I read that
802
00:34:21,838 --> 00:34:23,406
when I lived in Singapore and I often
803
00:34:23,406 --> 00:34:25,270
reference it here in my workspace here in
804
00:34:25,270 --> 00:34:28,518
Silicon Valley, is, you know, we have the
805
00:34:28,518 --> 00:34:30,542
whole low context, high context
806
00:34:30,542 --> 00:34:32,190
communication, right. And the US and Japan
807
00:34:32,190 --> 00:34:35,014
are polar opposites. Right. And a lot of
808
00:34:35,014 --> 00:34:37,438
nations around Japan would be on that end
809
00:34:37,438 --> 00:34:39,830
of the spectrum as well. And so, you know,
810
00:34:39,830 --> 00:34:41,686
knowing there's, there's these things like
811
00:34:41,686 --> 00:34:43,526
in japanese language, that's reading the
812
00:34:43,526 --> 00:34:45,864
air, right. And so it's for, like, us
813
00:34:45,864 --> 00:34:48,900
based context that's kind of, it's very
814
00:34:48,900 --> 00:34:50,908
foreign. Right. And so it's like, wait,
815
00:34:50,908 --> 00:34:53,060
there's, there's things in the air I'm
816
00:34:53,060 --> 00:34:55,108
supposed to be hearing. So how. Yeah. What
817
00:34:55,108 --> 00:34:58,380
is your experience with that? Yes, I mean
818
00:34:58,380 --> 00:35:01,556
so much frustration and so much resonance.
819
00:35:01,556 --> 00:35:03,588
And I'll also add another layer, which is
820
00:35:03,588 --> 00:35:07,748
our judgment, our judgment of the way that
821
00:35:07,748 --> 00:35:10,388
someone else does things or a different
822
00:35:10,388 --> 00:35:12,236
culture does things. I know many American
823
00:35:12,236 --> 00:35:14,504
who's like, read the air. That's
824
00:35:14,504 --> 00:35:17,224
ridiculous. Like, I'm so direct and so
825
00:35:17,224 --> 00:35:19,576
clear. Everyone should be like me again,
826
00:35:19,576 --> 00:35:21,640
that is one of the pitfalls of being
827
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,088
human, that we assume because it would
828
00:35:24,088 --> 00:35:26,752
make our lives easier if everyone just
829
00:35:26,752 --> 00:35:29,112
operated like me, they should operate like
830
00:35:29,112 --> 00:35:33,056
me, too, versus, oh, we're different. Then
831
00:35:33,056 --> 00:35:37,120
it begs the question of who gets to decide
832
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,664
if we're in a cross cultural or
833
00:35:39,664 --> 00:35:42,760
multicultural workplace or team, whose
834
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:47,224
culture, what norms prevail? And to me,
835
00:35:47,224 --> 00:35:51,520
the sheer ability to discuss them, to name
836
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,400
the differences, gets us a long way. In
837
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:58,512
the book, I also talk about three buckets.
838
00:35:58,512 --> 00:36:01,688
In every situation. There's the people who
839
00:36:01,688 --> 00:36:02,976
decide, the people who are consulted and
840
00:36:02,976 --> 00:36:04,664
the people who are informed. And one of
841
00:36:04,664 --> 00:36:07,384
the frustrations about voice is when we
842
00:36:07,384 --> 00:36:09,896
think we're being consulted, but really,
843
00:36:09,896 --> 00:36:12,016
it's a fake consult. Lori, what do you
844
00:36:12,016 --> 00:36:13,232
think? And then Lori's like, blah, blah,
845
00:36:13,232 --> 00:36:15,216
blah, I will share with you. And then you
846
00:36:15,216 --> 00:36:16,760
make the decision. And Lori's like, well,
847
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:18,392
why? Why did you ask me if you're just, if
848
00:36:18,392 --> 00:36:19,964
you knew what you were going to do
849
00:36:19,964 --> 00:36:22,464
anyways, but being really clear, who
850
00:36:22,464 --> 00:36:24,904
actually decides what the norms are? And
851
00:36:24,904 --> 00:36:27,800
the particularly interesting fact about a
852
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,484
team is that those norms often are co
853
00:36:30,484 --> 00:36:32,840
created. You can have a leader who says,
854
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,168
we're doing things this way, but if people
855
00:36:35,168 --> 00:36:38,496
don't follow, then you don't actually have
856
00:36:38,496 --> 00:36:41,400
a culture, even though leaders have a
857
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,336
disproportionate impact on cultures. So
858
00:36:44,336 --> 00:36:48,232
are we able to name, we operate
859
00:36:48,232 --> 00:36:50,248
differently, and different doesn't mean
860
00:36:50,248 --> 00:36:52,048
bad, different doesn't mean your culture
861
00:36:52,048 --> 00:36:54,392
is worse than mine. But we have different
862
00:36:54,392 --> 00:36:56,440
ways of operating. And then ask the
863
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,536
question, what do we want to do on our
864
00:36:58,536 --> 00:37:02,160
team here? Oftentimes, though, even the
865
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,168
understanding we operate differently helps
866
00:37:04,168 --> 00:37:07,404
us avoid the misinterpretation, the
867
00:37:07,404 --> 00:37:10,336
demonization of your worse or your bad,
868
00:37:10,336 --> 00:37:12,304
or, why don't you do it my way? Versus,
869
00:37:12,304 --> 00:37:14,224
oh, we're different. And then we need to
870
00:37:14,224 --> 00:37:17,704
figure out how we coexist and how we
871
00:37:17,704 --> 00:37:19,768
collaborate in that way. But one of the
872
00:37:19,768 --> 00:37:22,904
pieces of advice in the book is be
873
00:37:22,904 --> 00:37:27,080
explicit about the implicit, which is what
874
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:28,576
you said of, you know, I spoke up and
875
00:37:28,576 --> 00:37:30,120
asked a question and then realized, oh, I
876
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:33,264
guess we don't actually do things around
877
00:37:33,264 --> 00:37:36,552
that around here. But being explicit
878
00:37:36,552 --> 00:37:41,344
doesn't mean. That you. Have to be direct.
879
00:37:41,344 --> 00:37:44,464
Being explicit means, oh, read the air.
880
00:37:44,464 --> 00:37:47,272
That's what is happening here. Can we name
881
00:37:47,272 --> 00:37:49,720
it? Versus. We often figure out all of
882
00:37:49,720 --> 00:37:52,480
this by trial and error over time, but it
883
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,684
can be five years and a lot of relational
884
00:37:55,684 --> 00:38:00,040
damage in the process. So, unlearning
885
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:01,816
silence, to me is, how do we actually
886
00:38:01,816 --> 00:38:04,544
name, from our limited perspective, our
887
00:38:04,544 --> 00:38:06,584
legitimate perspective, what am I
888
00:38:06,584 --> 00:38:07,752
experiencing? What am I noticing? What am
889
00:38:07,752 --> 00:38:10,192
I feeling? What am I concerned about so
890
00:38:10,192 --> 00:38:12,776
that we can actually wrestle with it
891
00:38:12,776 --> 00:38:16,104
rather than tiptoe and bump hard elbows
892
00:38:16,104 --> 00:38:18,600
with each other until we maybe figure it
893
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:20,408
out? But at that point in time, someone's
894
00:38:20,408 --> 00:38:23,160
already quit, someone's already decided
895
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:28,764
it's not safe here. Well, as we think
896
00:38:28,764 --> 00:38:31,824
about wanting to bring more voices to the
897
00:38:31,824 --> 00:38:33,616
table here on this podcast and knowing
898
00:38:33,616 --> 00:38:36,734
that our differences are not only
899
00:38:36,734 --> 00:38:39,190
celebrated and valuable, but really needed
900
00:38:39,190 --> 00:38:40,822
for our world to become a better place.
901
00:38:40,822 --> 00:38:43,654
And that includes corporate America. It
902
00:38:43,654 --> 00:38:45,766
includes the justice system in all
903
00:38:45,766 --> 00:38:47,926
nations. It includes government, includes,
904
00:38:47,926 --> 00:38:49,822
you know, communities, families,
905
00:38:49,822 --> 00:38:54,270
education, every realm you could imagine.
906
00:38:54,270 --> 00:38:55,902
We don't know what we don't know, and
907
00:38:55,902 --> 00:38:58,070
often what we don't know is sitting out
908
00:38:58,070 --> 00:39:00,694
there. And so I guess my last question for
909
00:39:00,694 --> 00:39:03,382
you is, if there's a person listening who
910
00:39:03,382 --> 00:39:05,560
really wants to do this work, they have a
911
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:07,296
position of power in some way, whether
912
00:39:07,296 --> 00:39:09,992
they lead a small team or a large team,
913
00:39:09,992 --> 00:39:12,304
what is one kind of call to action or
914
00:39:12,304 --> 00:39:14,124
takeaway that you would have them think
915
00:39:14,124 --> 00:39:18,464
through in light of all this conversation?
916
00:39:18,464 --> 00:39:20,328
The question I would be asking is, what
917
00:39:20,328 --> 00:39:26,480
role does silence play on my team? And to
918
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:30,600
observe it as a neutral third party would.
919
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,376
If you were doing a case study on your
920
00:39:33,376 --> 00:39:36,858
team dynamic, what would you see about
921
00:39:36,858 --> 00:39:39,258
silence and how it's at play? And the
922
00:39:39,258 --> 00:39:41,410
reason I'm suggesting that vantage point
923
00:39:41,410 --> 00:39:45,210
is because there can be a lot of shame or
924
00:39:45,210 --> 00:39:46,906
guilt of, oh, my gosh, I didn't realize I
925
00:39:46,906 --> 00:39:49,122
was silencing this person. And we
926
00:39:49,122 --> 00:39:51,426
associate it with being a bad person, and
927
00:39:51,426 --> 00:39:53,722
then we shut down, which is the last thing
928
00:39:53,722 --> 00:39:55,922
that we want to do to me. And I say this
929
00:39:55,922 --> 00:39:58,914
in the book, so it's in writing, right,
930
00:39:58,914 --> 00:40:02,690
for. For all to see. I am someone who has
931
00:40:02,690 --> 00:40:04,970
been silenced. I am also someone who
932
00:40:04,970 --> 00:40:09,860
silences other people, despite my best
933
00:40:09,860 --> 00:40:13,052
intentions. And the question is not, am I
934
00:40:13,052 --> 00:40:15,420
a good or bad person for doing that, but
935
00:40:15,420 --> 00:40:20,020
am I having the impact that I want? Am I
936
00:40:20,020 --> 00:40:22,316
aligned in how I think I'm showing up and
937
00:40:22,316 --> 00:40:26,020
how I'm actually showing up? And if you
938
00:40:26,020 --> 00:40:28,180
don't know what role silence plays on your
939
00:40:28,180 --> 00:40:29,716
team, number one would invite you to read
940
00:40:29,716 --> 00:40:31,572
the book. And there's sort of a checklist
941
00:40:31,572 --> 00:40:33,984
you can follow of how it might be showing
942
00:40:33,984 --> 00:40:38,780
up. And also, I've tried to write with as
943
00:40:38,780 --> 00:40:41,504
much clarity and compassion as I can
944
00:40:41,504 --> 00:40:44,076
muster because it's going to take all of
945
00:40:44,076 --> 00:40:46,708
us for those changes, but also knowing
946
00:40:46,708 --> 00:40:48,772
that each of us, in our own corners of the
947
00:40:48,772 --> 00:40:51,420
world, across all the industries you
948
00:40:51,420 --> 00:40:53,556
mentioned, we are co creating a different
949
00:40:53,556 --> 00:40:56,108
world, co creating a world in which
950
00:40:56,108 --> 00:40:58,548
belonging, dignity and justice can exist
951
00:40:58,548 --> 00:41:01,436
for every human being, not just for a
952
00:41:01,436 --> 00:41:04,784
privileged few. And our sphere of
953
00:41:04,784 --> 00:41:11,232
influence matters. It absolutely does.
954
00:41:11,232 --> 00:41:13,552
Yes. Bravo. I want to give you a standing
955
00:41:13,552 --> 00:41:17,064
ovation on that one, because, yes, I know
956
00:41:17,064 --> 00:41:18,496
everybody listening that cares about all
957
00:41:18,496 --> 00:41:20,200
the things we're talking about are
958
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:21,296
resonating with what you're saying. And
959
00:41:21,296 --> 00:41:23,744
it's a great call to action to just ask
960
00:41:23,744 --> 00:41:25,656
the question and be very honest. And I
961
00:41:25,656 --> 00:41:27,016
think the part of the book that really
962
00:41:27,016 --> 00:41:29,784
touched me the most was not only you
963
00:41:29,784 --> 00:41:31,760
unpacking how you had been silenced, but
964
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:33,616
how you silenced others. And I think
965
00:41:33,616 --> 00:41:36,450
that's just the nuance and the reality
966
00:41:36,450 --> 00:41:39,322
that it's not a great posture to say good
967
00:41:39,322 --> 00:41:41,010
guys, bad guys, but there were all a
968
00:41:41,010 --> 00:41:44,186
mixture of good and bad decisions and
969
00:41:44,186 --> 00:41:46,882
silencing and also not silence. I mean, we
970
00:41:46,882 --> 00:41:49,098
do it right sometimes and we get it wrong
971
00:41:49,098 --> 00:41:50,570
a lot of times, but learning from those
972
00:41:50,570 --> 00:41:51,690
mistakes and moving forward and really
973
00:41:51,690 --> 00:41:52,946
having a growth mindset around this, I
974
00:41:52,946 --> 00:41:54,946
think is really helpful. So thank you so
975
00:41:54,946 --> 00:41:57,154
much for this book, for writing it, for
976
00:41:57,154 --> 00:41:59,058
being so wholehearted about it and
977
00:41:59,058 --> 00:42:01,882
vulnerable yourself, but also for giving
978
00:42:01,882 --> 00:42:03,530
us a great call to action here together.
979
00:42:03,530 --> 00:42:06,177
I'm looking forward to seeing how this has
980
00:42:06,177 --> 00:42:08,664
impactful on our audience, who really does
981
00:42:08,664 --> 00:42:11,428
make the world a better place every day.
982
00:42:11,428 --> 00:42:13,436
So thank you for doing that yourself, for
983
00:42:13,436 --> 00:42:15,180
bringing your differences to the table
984
00:42:15,180 --> 00:42:16,716
today and letting us get to know you a
985
00:42:16,716 --> 00:42:18,316
little bit better and helping us all make
986
00:42:18,316 --> 00:42:20,036
a difference together. Elaine, it's been a
987
00:42:20,036 --> 00:42:22,740
joy to talk to you. Likewise. Thanks for
988
00:42:22,740 --> 00:42:26,684
having me, Lori. You're welcome. Bye. I
989
00:42:26,684 --> 00:42:28,852
mentioned that Elaine is our people. And,
990
00:42:28,852 --> 00:42:30,924
you know, I hope that you have felt the
991
00:42:30,924 --> 00:42:33,686
same way that I have just listening to
992
00:42:33,686 --> 00:42:36,634
her. Not only is she such a good
993
00:42:36,634 --> 00:42:39,246
communicator, she's such a deep thinker,
994
00:42:39,246 --> 00:42:41,510
and she brings in perspective from not
995
00:42:41,510 --> 00:42:43,654
only, you know, having been a lecturer at
996
00:42:43,654 --> 00:42:45,990
Harvard Law School, but also having, you
997
00:42:45,990 --> 00:42:47,974
know, worked in and traveled across this
998
00:42:47,974 --> 00:42:50,590
globe and knowing how all of us
999
00:42:50,590 --> 00:42:52,230
communicate so differently, even
1000
00:42:52,230 --> 00:42:54,246
understanding the nuances of how people
1001
00:42:54,246 --> 00:42:55,982
process, you know, in real time in a
1002
00:42:55,982 --> 00:42:57,966
meeting versus needing a little space
1003
00:42:57,966 --> 00:43:00,000
afterwards, understanding the nuances of
1004
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,520
how we have low context and high context
1005
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:05,920
communication differences from the US
1006
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:07,776
context all the way to Asia and the
1007
00:43:07,776 --> 00:43:09,864
spectrum of what that looks like. Also
1008
00:43:09,864 --> 00:43:12,592
just bringing in, you know, the
1009
00:43:12,592 --> 00:43:14,248
neurodiversity into this conversation
1010
00:43:14,248 --> 00:43:16,384
where, you know, I'm thinking about people
1011
00:43:16,384 --> 00:43:19,536
that I know and care about, my loved ones
1012
00:43:19,536 --> 00:43:22,816
who are not quick processors, you know, I
1013
00:43:22,816 --> 00:43:24,888
know in some. Even she brings in the
1014
00:43:24,888 --> 00:43:26,224
educational system into the conversation
1015
00:43:26,224 --> 00:43:28,350
today and thinking about, we have some of
1016
00:43:28,350 --> 00:43:30,206
these standardized tests. And she unpacks
1017
00:43:30,206 --> 00:43:32,554
this a bit in the book of what it's like
1018
00:43:32,554 --> 00:43:35,366
both in the United States and our public
1019
00:43:35,366 --> 00:43:37,006
schools, but also, I think of Singapore in
1020
00:43:37,006 --> 00:43:39,646
the context there. And I know from my work
1021
00:43:39,646 --> 00:43:43,686
that I do in Taiwan because I recently got
1022
00:43:43,686 --> 00:43:46,254
back from there, and understanding how
1023
00:43:46,254 --> 00:43:48,190
that educational system works, too, that
1024
00:43:48,190 --> 00:43:50,750
so many systems around the world are
1025
00:43:50,750 --> 00:43:53,742
teaching students to process quickly,
1026
00:43:53,742 --> 00:43:57,658
process these things very rapidly, whether
1027
00:43:57,658 --> 00:43:59,970
it's reading comprehension test, how many
1028
00:43:59,970 --> 00:44:01,570
words do you read per minute, how many
1029
00:44:01,570 --> 00:44:03,666
math facts do you do per minute? And, you
1030
00:44:03,666 --> 00:44:08,490
know, quick speed is a high value at the
1031
00:44:08,490 --> 00:44:11,218
expense often of deep thoughtfulness and
1032
00:44:11,218 --> 00:44:12,946
curiosity around how these things are
1033
00:44:12,946 --> 00:44:14,650
happening. So that's what I really
1034
00:44:14,650 --> 00:44:17,050
appreciate so much about Elaine's voice
1035
00:44:17,050 --> 00:44:20,346
and this whole conversation is that she's
1036
00:44:20,346 --> 00:44:22,690
getting more existential with us. We're
1037
00:44:22,690 --> 00:44:25,978
asking not just, you know, what, why, and
1038
00:44:25,978 --> 00:44:28,866
how. And these are things that I just
1039
00:44:28,866 --> 00:44:31,098
think if our world is going to move
1040
00:44:31,098 --> 00:44:34,514
forward in ways where we all are working
1041
00:44:34,514 --> 00:44:37,378
for thriving and flourishing of all human
1042
00:44:37,378 --> 00:44:39,666
beings and respect and dignity and
1043
00:44:39,666 --> 00:44:41,026
belonging and justice and all the things
1044
00:44:41,026 --> 00:44:43,434
that we work for in this community, by
1045
00:44:43,434 --> 00:44:45,026
linking arms and working shoulder to
1046
00:44:45,026 --> 00:44:48,146
shoulder with each other, that if we are
1047
00:44:48,146 --> 00:44:50,066
asking questions and really staying
1048
00:44:50,066 --> 00:44:52,718
curious and creating environments where we
1049
00:44:52,718 --> 00:44:55,822
are bringing the voices to the table and
1050
00:44:55,822 --> 00:44:59,114
creating the really fostering and
1051
00:44:59,114 --> 00:45:03,030
cultivating a space where that can happen
1052
00:45:03,030 --> 00:45:05,374
and understanding the pitfalls and the
1053
00:45:05,374 --> 00:45:07,278
oversights we might have as leaders that
1054
00:45:07,278 --> 00:45:10,182
inhibit those things and as parents, which
1055
00:45:10,182 --> 00:45:13,150
we unpack that as well, then once we can
1056
00:45:13,150 --> 00:45:14,886
overcome these hurdles and obstacles
1057
00:45:14,886 --> 00:45:17,078
together that are both internal and
1058
00:45:17,078 --> 00:45:19,470
external, we are going to see a real shift
1059
00:45:19,470 --> 00:45:22,414
in how much of a difference we are a part
1060
00:45:22,414 --> 00:45:25,566
of making along with others. And I just.
1061
00:45:25,566 --> 00:45:26,998
Once again, I could not recommend this
1062
00:45:26,998 --> 00:45:29,062
book more. When I saw the title, I knew I
1063
00:45:29,062 --> 00:45:32,606
was gonna love it, but I had no idea how
1064
00:45:32,606 --> 00:45:35,230
much it was really gonna teach me and how
1065
00:45:35,230 --> 00:45:36,806
much I was gonna be able to unpack as I
1066
00:45:36,806 --> 00:45:38,126
read it. I think it's the kind of book I'm
1067
00:45:38,126 --> 00:45:41,046
gonna read more than once and still keep.
1068
00:45:41,046 --> 00:45:42,878
Like she says, the title isn't unlearn,
1069
00:45:42,878 --> 00:45:46,534
it's unlearning. It's a process, and I am
1070
00:45:46,534 --> 00:45:49,230
so excited to be on this process and
1071
00:45:49,230 --> 00:45:51,006
journey with each of you. I learned so
1072
00:45:51,006 --> 00:45:54,326
much from you. I just thank you, each of
1073
00:45:54,326 --> 00:45:57,526
you who listened to this podcast, by the
1074
00:45:57,526 --> 00:46:01,062
time you know this releases, you're going
1075
00:46:01,062 --> 00:46:03,254
to be facing so many things around the
1076
00:46:03,254 --> 00:46:04,702
world that are going to have hit the news
1077
00:46:04,702 --> 00:46:05,918
that we didn't even know we're going to
1078
00:46:05,918 --> 00:46:08,214
hit. And there's going to be things that
1079
00:46:08,214 --> 00:46:10,390
we face in our personal lives, our
1080
00:46:10,390 --> 00:46:11,622
professional lives, and in our communities
1081
00:46:11,622 --> 00:46:14,278
that we didn't know was going to happen.
1082
00:46:14,278 --> 00:46:16,814
But when we give space to each other to
1083
00:46:16,814 --> 00:46:19,886
just share our voices, the feelings, the
1084
00:46:19,886 --> 00:46:22,894
facts, the values behind it, our world is
1085
00:46:22,894 --> 00:46:24,846
really going to move forward in ways that
1086
00:46:24,846 --> 00:46:27,710
we need it to, where belonging really
1087
00:46:27,710 --> 00:46:30,222
matters. And we are part of that. I just
1088
00:46:30,222 --> 00:46:31,630
thank you to each of you who listen, who
1089
00:46:31,630 --> 00:46:33,526
share this podcast, who rate and review.
1090
00:46:33,526 --> 00:46:35,030
It makes a world of difference for me, and
1091
00:46:35,030 --> 00:46:38,070
it also allows other people to find us and
1092
00:46:38,070 --> 00:46:40,598
bring their voices in and listen to the
1093
00:46:40,598 --> 00:46:41,950
voices of the different guests that we
1094
00:46:41,950 --> 00:46:44,430
have on. And I do think that Elaine's
1095
00:46:44,430 --> 00:46:46,070
voice, I would like to promote it as much
1096
00:46:46,070 --> 00:46:48,110
as possible. So please share this podcast
1097
00:46:48,110 --> 00:46:50,920
with those who need to know about what
1098
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:53,184
she's saying to help unleash and help us
1099
00:46:53,184 --> 00:46:55,832
all unlearn the silencing that we've been
1100
00:46:55,832 --> 00:46:57,992
a part of or that has happened to us. And
1101
00:46:57,992 --> 00:47:00,120
it's a journey. It certainly is. I think
1102
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:04,000
of those of you in the faith community
1103
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:07,080
where you've had to sign NDAs, even NDAs
1104
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:09,176
tied to severance, and it was really hard
1105
00:47:09,176 --> 00:47:11,624
to do, to get medical insurance for your
1106
00:47:11,624 --> 00:47:15,262
family in a time that was unexpected. And
1107
00:47:15,262 --> 00:47:17,294
I know that that happens also in the
1108
00:47:17,294 --> 00:47:20,622
corporate space where I work now. And even
1109
00:47:20,622 --> 00:47:22,834
people in journalism have faced those
1110
00:47:22,834 --> 00:47:25,334
things, silencing voices or having been
1111
00:47:25,334 --> 00:47:27,606
silenced. And like she said, chapter three
1112
00:47:27,606 --> 00:47:29,070
is her favorite chapter, because there's
1113
00:47:29,070 --> 00:47:31,710
some times where, you know, you have to be
1114
00:47:31,710 --> 00:47:33,166
silent for a variety of reasons. And I
1115
00:47:33,166 --> 00:47:34,942
think of all of those of you who have been
1116
00:47:34,942 --> 00:47:39,070
in the both hostile work environment space
1117
00:47:39,070 --> 00:47:42,486
or in an abuse situation that you're still
1118
00:47:42,486 --> 00:47:45,270
unpacking. And I know that whistleblowers
1119
00:47:45,270 --> 00:47:49,154
out there, it's hard what you're doing and
1120
00:47:49,154 --> 00:47:50,498
walking through that and building a
1121
00:47:50,498 --> 00:47:52,266
village around you and knowing when
1122
00:47:52,266 --> 00:47:53,834
there's a time to speak and when there's a
1123
00:47:53,834 --> 00:47:55,786
time to be silent for yourself is so
1124
00:47:55,786 --> 00:47:57,754
important. So I do for nothing else.
1125
00:47:57,754 --> 00:47:59,186
Forget the book for chapter three, because
1126
00:47:59,186 --> 00:48:02,050
it's so impactful. And I also just want to
1127
00:48:02,050 --> 00:48:03,810
thank each of you who have reached out to
1128
00:48:03,810 --> 00:48:05,586
me and shared your stories. Personally, I
1129
00:48:05,586 --> 00:48:08,186
get a lot of your stories and I hold them
1130
00:48:08,186 --> 00:48:11,546
and I stay silent about them. For those of
1131
00:48:11,546 --> 00:48:14,514
you who kind of come to me in confidential
1132
00:48:14,514 --> 00:48:16,626
ways, to share about ways that you have
1133
00:48:16,626 --> 00:48:18,514
been silenced in your own workplace or
1134
00:48:18,514 --> 00:48:20,666
faith community, and it means a lot to me
1135
00:48:20,666 --> 00:48:22,330
as a whistleblower who's walked through
1136
00:48:22,330 --> 00:48:24,770
this journey, and it's not been easy, but
1137
00:48:24,770 --> 00:48:27,962
I do want to be a space where you can
1138
00:48:27,962 --> 00:48:29,962
share those things with me. I don't always
1139
00:48:29,962 --> 00:48:32,082
get to respond right away. Some of you
1140
00:48:32,082 --> 00:48:34,174
have been able to meet in person, and
1141
00:48:34,174 --> 00:48:35,866
recently several of you reached out who
1142
00:48:35,866 --> 00:48:38,866
were in the La Orange county area, and I
1143
00:48:38,866 --> 00:48:40,922
was there speaking at podcast movement
1144
00:48:40,922 --> 00:48:43,700
evolution. I got to meet several listeners
1145
00:48:43,700 --> 00:48:46,188
in person, and we schedule different times
1146
00:48:46,188 --> 00:48:48,084
to have coffee together and I just hold
1147
00:48:48,084 --> 00:48:50,988
those stories so, so dear and close to me,
1148
00:48:50,988 --> 00:48:52,692
and it means so much that you would come
1149
00:48:52,692 --> 00:48:54,260
and share those things with you. We shed
1150
00:48:54,260 --> 00:48:58,628
some tears, exchanged hugs, and just had
1151
00:48:58,628 --> 00:49:01,860
moments where we just heard each other.
1152
00:49:01,860 --> 00:49:03,468
And you get to hear my voice quite a bit
1153
00:49:03,468 --> 00:49:04,892
and the voices of the guests that I bring
1154
00:49:04,892 --> 00:49:06,676
on. But it's really such an honor for me
1155
00:49:06,676 --> 00:49:08,460
to hear your voice and meet you in person.
1156
00:49:08,460 --> 00:49:10,476
So thank you to those of you who have
1157
00:49:10,476 --> 00:49:11,956
reached out to me and we've been able to
1158
00:49:11,956 --> 00:49:15,788
make those things work. If any of you are
1159
00:49:15,788 --> 00:49:18,724
in the UK, in the London area, I'll be
1160
00:49:18,724 --> 00:49:20,988
there in April. So if you're there and
1161
00:49:20,988 --> 00:49:22,596
want to reach out and we can make it work,
1162
00:49:22,596 --> 00:49:25,116
would love to just meet you in person if
1163
00:49:25,116 --> 00:49:26,596
we could work that out. But yes, always
1164
00:49:26,596 --> 00:49:27,692
feel free to reach out. You never know
1165
00:49:27,692 --> 00:49:29,300
where I'm going to be traveling to, and it
1166
00:49:29,300 --> 00:49:31,664
might happen. But also, I just want to
1167
00:49:31,664 --> 00:49:34,060
say, you know, thank you for coming into
1168
00:49:34,060 --> 00:49:36,100
this podcast week after week and listening
1169
00:49:36,100 --> 00:49:39,048
and sharing it with others, because we are
1170
00:49:39,048 --> 00:49:41,296
impacting lives one person, one podcast at
1171
00:49:41,296 --> 00:49:43,568
a time as we bring these voices to the
1172
00:49:43,568 --> 00:49:44,968
table. And it really does make a
1173
00:49:44,968 --> 00:49:46,664
difference when you share it with others
1174
00:49:46,664 --> 00:49:49,776
and when you want to interact with me.
1175
00:49:49,776 --> 00:49:53,048
This is my why I do this, for you, to
1176
00:49:53,048 --> 00:49:55,552
bring you these voices that have impacted
1177
00:49:55,552 --> 00:49:57,336
me, whether it's books they've written,
1178
00:49:57,336 --> 00:49:59,320
like Elaine's book, or the work that
1179
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:00,928
they're doing in a variety of ways. I want
1180
00:50:00,928 --> 00:50:02,696
you to know about these individuals that
1181
00:50:02,696 --> 00:50:04,192
have impacted me and made a difference for
1182
00:50:04,192 --> 00:50:07,120
me so that you can also glean from their
1183
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:09,732
wisdom and their insights, too. All of our
1184
00:50:09,732 --> 00:50:11,004
perspectives coming around the table
1185
00:50:11,004 --> 00:50:13,308
really are forming our world into a better
1186
00:50:13,308 --> 00:50:15,700
place. And I truly believe that. And so,
1187
00:50:15,700 --> 00:50:17,812
yeah, if you have other suggestions for
1188
00:50:17,812 --> 00:50:19,228
people that are impacting you that you
1189
00:50:19,228 --> 00:50:20,876
want to suggest for the show. Always feel
1190
00:50:20,876 --> 00:50:23,836
free to reach out to me. I'm on Twitter
1191
00:50:23,836 --> 00:50:27,012
oreadbr, or you can find me at Instagram
1192
00:50:27,012 --> 00:50:28,516
oriadamsbrown. And feel free to reach out.
1193
00:50:28,516 --> 00:50:32,564
I love to hear from you and what is
1194
00:50:32,564 --> 00:50:34,028
impacting your life. And different guests
1195
00:50:34,028 --> 00:50:36,054
that we have on the show occasionally come
1196
00:50:36,054 --> 00:50:37,866
from suggestions from each of you as
1197
00:50:37,866 --> 00:50:39,354
listeners. So if you're hoping to co
1198
00:50:39,354 --> 00:50:42,066
create this podcast too, and as always, we
1199
00:50:42,066 --> 00:50:44,130
do go a lot deeper in our difference maker
1200
00:50:44,130 --> 00:50:46,050
community. So if you are not there yet,
1201
00:50:46,050 --> 00:50:47,618
you really, I'm sorry, you're missing out.
1202
00:50:47,618 --> 00:50:49,026
I'm just going to say because it is a
1203
00:50:49,026 --> 00:50:51,226
space where we take this to the next level
1204
00:50:51,226 --> 00:50:52,866
with our guests. So we do that with
1205
00:50:52,866 --> 00:50:56,138
Elaine. Here she goes. And we unpack a
1206
00:50:56,138 --> 00:50:58,490
question where I ask her to sort of help
1207
00:50:58,490 --> 00:51:01,290
us understand for all of you out there
1208
00:51:01,290 --> 00:51:02,690
making a difference in the world, what is
1209
00:51:02,690 --> 00:51:05,676
her wisdom advice for those of us who are
1210
00:51:05,676 --> 00:51:08,612
working so hard in spaces that are really
1211
00:51:08,612 --> 00:51:10,212
difficult, and she's interacted with a lot
1212
00:51:10,212 --> 00:51:12,212
of those spaces around the world with her
1213
00:51:12,212 --> 00:51:15,164
work, and so she has some great nuggets to
1214
00:51:15,164 --> 00:51:16,852
share where she unpacks three different
1215
00:51:16,852 --> 00:51:19,332
things about how to, you know, care for
1216
00:51:19,332 --> 00:51:20,820
yourself as a leader, making a difference
1217
00:51:20,820 --> 00:51:23,116
out there and, you know, to avoid burnout
1218
00:51:23,116 --> 00:51:25,324
to work, you know, and resilience for
1219
00:51:25,324 --> 00:51:27,204
yourself and how this whole silencing
1220
00:51:27,204 --> 00:51:30,000
conversation really is impacting people
1221
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:31,536
around the world in these various ways.
1222
00:51:31,536 --> 00:51:33,336
And so you don't want to miss that. So
1223
00:51:33,336 --> 00:51:35,168
we'll release that episode soon in our
1224
00:51:35,168 --> 00:51:37,560
difference maker community, which you can
1225
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:40,432
join for as little as $5 a month. For an
1226
00:51:40,432 --> 00:51:42,696
entire month, just $5, you can get access
1227
00:51:42,696 --> 00:51:44,928
to all of these previous exclusive
1228
00:51:44,928 --> 00:51:46,256
episodes at whatever interior level you
1229
00:51:46,256 --> 00:51:47,752
end up joining at. So we'd love to have
1230
00:51:47,752 --> 00:51:49,376
you there and also helps support the show.
1231
00:51:49,376 --> 00:51:51,256
So I really appreciate those of you who
1232
00:51:51,256 --> 00:51:52,616
are there because it makes a difference
1233
00:51:52,616 --> 00:51:54,072
for me and being able to produce the show
1234
00:51:54,072 --> 00:51:56,096
and put it out in the world. So please
1235
00:51:56,096 --> 00:52:01,776
join us there at www.patreon.com
1236
00:52:01,776 --> 00:52:03,256
aworldofdifference would love to have you
1237
00:52:03,256 --> 00:52:05,784
join. It's a lot of deep conversation
1238
00:52:05,784 --> 00:52:07,808
there which you really, really resonate
1239
00:52:07,808 --> 00:52:10,360
with. So thank you, everyone, for all the
1240
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:11,696
great work you're doing around the world,
1241
00:52:11,696 --> 00:52:14,040
for just being who you are, for bringing
1242
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:16,408
your voice to the table, and for being
1243
00:52:16,408 --> 00:52:19,280
silent when it makes sense for you. And
1244
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:20,976
I'd love to know what this conversation
1245
00:52:20,976 --> 00:52:24,192
has meant to you today around unlearning
1246
00:52:24,192 --> 00:52:26,904
silence with Elaine Lin Hering Wherever
1247
00:52:26,904 --> 00:52:29,048
you are and whatever you're facing,
1248
00:52:29,048 --> 00:52:30,936
whatever internal or external obstacles
1249
00:52:30,936 --> 00:52:33,216
are out in front of you today, I hope you
1250
00:52:33,216 --> 00:52:35,592
take a deep breath that you care for
1251
00:52:35,592 --> 00:52:39,568
yourself and that you just know that you
1252
00:52:39,568 --> 00:52:43,368
matter, your voice matters. And you are
1253
00:52:43,368 --> 00:52:47,200
such a person who is valued and loved and
1254
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:49,680
cared for in this world. And I hope that
1255
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:51,696
you experience a lot of self compassion
1256
00:52:51,696 --> 00:52:53,480
for yourself today and a lot of kindness
1257
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:56,286
towards yourself and others as you make
1258
00:52:56,286 --> 00:52:58,822
the world a better place. So keep making a