Johnna Harris Part 2: Defunding Injustice and Redirecting SBC Donations to Protect the Vulnerable


Join us as we dive into the hidden world of spiritual abuse within church communities, uncovering shocking revelations and the urgent need for justice. What happens when the very institutions meant to provide solace and support become complicit in perpetuating harm? Tune in to find out what happens next in part 2 of our interview with Johnna Harris.
Join us as we dive into the hidden world of spiritual abuse within church communities, uncovering shocking revelations and the urgent need for justice. But what happens when the very institutions meant to provide solace and support become complicit in perpetuating harm? Tune in to find out what happens next.
If you're feeling frustrated and helpless because your efforts to stop abuse in your church or faith community are being ignored, then you are not alone! You may have already tried reporting the abuse to church leaders or authorities, only to see it swept under the rug or dismissed. Instead of seeing justice and accountability, you may be witnessing the perpetrators being protected and the victims being silenced. It's time to come together and take action to demand change and ensure that everyone in your community is safe and treated with respect.
My special guest is Johnna Harris
Johnna Harris, a dedicated advocate and co-host of the Bodies behind the Bus podcast, brings a wealth of experience and empathy to the conversation around spiritual abuse in church and faith communities. Her unwavering commitment to amplifying the voices of survivors and promoting awareness is truly commendable. With a unique blend of personal insight and professional dedication, Johnna's work is making a real impact in the lives of many. Her passion for fostering healing and understanding shines through in her thoughtful approach to advocacy, making her a valuable voice in the ongoing dialogue about supporting survivors and creating positive change within faith spaces.
We have to be willing to say no person is perfect, and no person is above questioning. And our church leaders, our pastors, these ministry organizations, all of them, we have a rubric for what their integrity and character should look like. That has been thrown into survivor faces over and over and over again in the SBC. It's thrown into women's faces. You cannot be here. You cannot be leading if you are a woman, because it needs to be a man. Here's what it says in the Bible. Yet we're not holding them to those standards. All I'm asking people is to actually be consistent and hold our leaders, hold our churches to the standards that we were told matter to them, that we were told matter to God. - Johnna Harris
In this episode, you will be able to:
- Understand how to address Southern Baptist Convention sexual abuse.
- Discover survivor stories and advocacy for change.
- Embrace the importance of justice and accountability in faith communities.
- Take action against spiritual abuse within your church.
- Join a Patreon community for difference-makers in promoting justice.
Hear survivor stories
Listening to survivors' narratives is a powerful way of understanding the gravity and reality of spiritual abuse in faith communities. Each story offers a firsthand perspective that illuminates the complexity and nuance of this issue. It is through these narratives that we can become better allies, advocates, and agents of change within our communities.
The resources mentioned in this episode are:
- Join the Defund the SBC movement by designating your donations to specific areas in your church and asking for transparency on where the money goes, especially in relation to legal fees and image management efforts.
- Send letters, emails, and make phone calls to church leaders and denomination policymakers to advocate for justice and transparency in handling abuse cases.
- Follow abuse survivors in the SBC on social media and read their stories to understand the impact and importance of seeking justice for survivors.
- Consider making a New Year's resolution to actively do justice, love mercy, and walk humbly with God in your circle of influence, taking tangible steps to make a difference.
- Join the Difference Maker community on Patreon to access exclusive episodes and engage in deeper conversations about advocacy and making a difference in various spaces at www.patreon.com/aworldofdifference.
- Key Takeaways:
- Understand the impact of Southern Baptist Convention sexual abuse on individuals and communities.
- Hear survivor stories and learn about their advocacy efforts for change.
- Recognize the importance of justice and accountability within faith communities.
- Take actionable steps to combat spiritual abuse in church settings.
- Join a Patreon community for difference-makers in promoting justice and accountability in faith communities.
The key moments in this episode are:
00:00:00 - Introduction to Johnna Harris's advocacy work
00:04:02 - Trigger warning and self-care
00:08:47 - Impact of spiritual abuse on women's voices
00:11:45 - Healing journey and self-care
00:13:10 - Connection between Acts 29 and the SBC
00:15:16 - Sexual Abuse Scandals in the SBC
00:16:01 - Corruption Within the SBC
00:17:48 - Samantha Killary's Lawsuit
00:21:49 - Transparency with Cooperative Program Funds
00:30:42 - Hope for Change
00:33:33 - SBC's involvement in thwarting justice
00:35:23 - The role of good people in complicity
00:37:40 - Holding church leaders accountable
00:41:18 - Making wrongs right
00:43:38 - Taking action for justice
00:49:17 - The Power of Stories and Advocacy
00:49:42 - New Year's Resolution for Justice
00:50:22 - Invitation to Do Justice
00:51:05 - Join the Patreon Community
00:52:40 - Reflecting on the Year and Making a Difference
Timestamped summary of this episode:
00:00:00 - Introduction to Johnna Harris's advocacy work
Johnna Harris discusses her advocacy work on behalf of Southern Baptist Convention and the Acts 29 network survivors, focusing on survivors of spiritual abuse themselves.
00:04:02 - Trigger warning and self-care
The host provides a trigger warning for the discussion on abuse and emphasizes the importance of self-care for those who have experienced religious trauma.
00:08:47 - Impact of spiritual abuse on women's voices
Johnna and Lori discuss the silencing of women's voices in some religious spaces, sharing their own experiences and the challenges they faced as women in leadership roles.
00:11:45 - Healing journey and self-care
Johnna shares her healing journey, including therapy and avoiding retraumatization in religious settings, highlighting the importance of self-care for survivors of spiritual abuse.
00:13:10 - Connection between Acts 29 and the SBC
The discussion delves into the connection between the Acts 29 network and the Southern Baptist Convention, shedding light on the lack of robust accountability structures within the SBC and its impact on survivors of spiritual abuse.
00:15:16 - Sexual Abuse Scandals in the SBC
Discussion on the handling of sexual abuse within the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) and the numerous lawsuits and scandals related to survivors coming forward.
00:16:01 - Corruption Within the SBC
The Guidepost report findings of corruption within the SBC in handling and reporting sexual abuse cases, with mention of multiple lawsuits in Kentucky.
00:17:48 - Samantha Killary's Lawsuit
Details about Samantha Killary's lawsuit, the entities involved, and the implication of the SBC's intervention potentially affecting other abuse survivors in Kentucky.
00:21:49 - Impact of Cooperative Program Funds
Highlighting the use of Cooperative Program funds for legal actions and the potential negative impact on abuse survivors if the Supreme Court in KY rules in favor of the SBC's stance.
00:30:42 - Hope for Change
Discussion on the challenges of bringing about accountability and change within the SBC and other western evangelical entities, expressing a desire for positive growth within churches.
00:33:33 - SBC's involvement in thwarting justice
Johnna discusses the potential impact of the Southern Baptist Convention's (SBC) amicus brief on the statute of limitations for second-party perpetrators. She highlights the potential consequences for survivors seeking justice and the disturbing reality of justice being thwarted by powerful entities.
00:35:23 - The role of good people in complicity
Johnna emphasizes the complicity of good people in allowing injustice to persist. She urges listeners to educate themselves and take action to hold leaders and organizations accountable for their actions, particularly in cases of abuse and cover-ups.
00:37:40 - Holding church leaders accountable
The conversation delves into the need for consistency in holding church leaders accountable to the standards they espouse. Johnna urges people to consider where their tithes and donations are directed, emphasizing the importance of transparency and responsible stewardship of financial contributions.
00:41:18 - Making wrongs right
The discussion emphasizes the importance of making wrongs right and pursuing justice, rather than succumbing to "himpathy." It calls for a collective effort to address spiritual abuse and hold leaders accountable for their actions, advocating for defunding the SBC as a potentially necessary course of action.
00:43:38 - Taking action for justice
Johnna encourages listeners to take action in various ways, including defunding the SBC legal efforts by designating offerings, seeking transparency in financial contributions, and advocating for abuse survivors. The conversation underscores the need for accountability and highlights the role of individuals
00:49:17 - The Power of Stories and Advocacy
Lori and Johnna emphasize the importance of hearing abuse survivors' stories in the SBC to understand the significance of advocating for justice. They encourage listeners to actively engage in advocacy efforts and share their ideas in a Patreon episode at www.patreon.com/aworldofdifference.
00:49:42 - New Year's Resolution for Justice
Lori encourages listeners to make New Year's resolutions focused on doing justice, loving mercy, and walking humbly with God. She emphasizes the importance of actively participating in advocacy efforts within their circle of influence.
00:50:22 - Invitation to Do Justice
Lori invites followers of God to consider how they can do justice within their denominational and church homes. She encourages listeners to join their Patreon community for deeper discussions on advocacy and making a difference.
00:51:05 - Join the Patreon Community
Lori invites listeners to join their Patreon community, where they can access exclusive episodes and engage in conversations about making a difference in their respective spaces. She welcomes individuals from diverse religious backgrounds to share their perspectives.
00:52:40 - Reflecting on the Year and Making a Difference
Lori encourages listeners to reflect on the past year and consider what they want to stop, start, or continue doing. She invites them to connect with her on social media to share their reflections and discuss their plans for making a difference.
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Join our Difference Maker membership community for a ton of exclusive content for as little as $5/month. (The price of your a latte at your local coffee shop to enjoy a whole month of content.) Lori's Travel Tips are included as well as exclusive minisodes with our guests not available anywhere else. Join for deeper conversations and a little fun today at https://www.patreon.com/aworldofdifference
Keep making a difference wherever you are!
Lori Adams-Brown, Host & Executive Producer
A World of Difference Podcast
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You welcome to the A world of Difference
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podcast. I'm Lori Adams Brown, and this is
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a podcast for those who are different and
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want to make a difference. We have back on
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the show today, Johnna Harris for part two
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of her two part episode here with us,
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where she's discussing her advocacy work
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in episode, the first episode, which is,
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if you haven't heard it, episode 166.
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Please go back and listen to that first,
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she shares her own story of spiritual
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abuse, where she was working on stuff at a
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church in California as a worship leader
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in the acts 29 network, which is a network
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that is very adjacent to the Southern
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Baptist Convention denomination, which
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we're going to dig a little bit into today
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as she talks about her advocacy work, not
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only in the Southern Baptist space, but
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also in the acts 29 network, of course,
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and then other denominations and churches
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and parachurch organizations, nonprofits,
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in the christian space, where she
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basically has worked through her podcast
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that she co hosts. It's called Bodies
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behind the bus podcast. I know many of you
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listen to that podcast I do as well I'm a
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a and I know many of you are too And this
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this a a where she sits and bears witness
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to the stories Of survivors of spiritual
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abuse.She has a real a for stories and
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believes they can be can catalyst for
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change I do too This is something we have
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in common I believe that our stories as we
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Share them together which is why I love
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this interview podcast where I got to sit
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and listen to stories of people's journeys
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how they're making a difference.I believe
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that stories really have the power to
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change And so this is one of the reasons
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Johnna and I have these very concentric
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circles of the podcast that she hosts And
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this one and the work that we each do that
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has some places where we agree and
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intersect and then other places where we
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do completely different things But happy
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to have her back on the show again today
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because her work is really making a
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difference making the life of many
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survivors just because really what we
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understand about trauma is when we have
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walked through trauma it rewires our brain
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And part of the ways we can kind of get it
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reset is to share our to of trauma with
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people who will listen to understand
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empathize with us and say that they
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believe us.And so that's part of the work
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that she does And it's huge It's really
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making a difference in ways a people feel
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heard and understood and believed And that
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is really critical for the healing process
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And I know many of you listening either
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walk through trauma yourself or an
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advocate for abuse survivors or are just
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interested in this topic today because you
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want today make a difference in whatever a
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you can for people who are walking through
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trauma and spiritual abuse.Specifically
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for Johnna Harris you can find her during
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the week being a mother to her four young
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kids talking with survivors of religious
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abuse and survivors as she says in her bio
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pissing off the dads brads and chads of
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western evangelicalism Because
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unfortunately as many of you know whether
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you have spoken out as a whistleblower of
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your own a someone else's abuse in the
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evangelical space here in the west or you
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sit on the sidelines and just watch and
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maybe you've experienced it yourself but
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you've don't want to speak up for very
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understandable reasons You've probably
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observed once or twice that speaking up
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and advocating in this space often does
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result in some people being angry And
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that's just the nature of pointing out the
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abuse of power to people that hold the
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power And so unfortunately that does
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happen.But I'm so grateful for the work
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that Johnna does It's really difficult And
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we are so grateful that she has are well
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until now for so many people by listening
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to their stories and giving them a
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platform stories share them in a way that
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brings awareness So a we're having her
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back on today talk about her advocacy work
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and we just want to always give that
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trigger warning So to you who have
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experienced abuse of any kind specifically
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spiritual abuse I wanted to let you know
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we will be discussing that today.So please
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take care of yourselves Go Maybe use some
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of your grounding techniques or something
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that's going to keep you focused on the
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here and now And if this particular
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podcast is not something that would be
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helpful for you today feel free to not
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listen or take it in chunks or whatever or
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best for you But once again prioritize
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your own self care because you matter and
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we want you to be well and to continue to
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work towards your own flourishing.And you
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deserve to heal So also it's a good time
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to mention the sponsor of this podcast
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which is betterhelp.com And I myself work
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with a is and this therapist is
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betterhelp.com I've been working with them
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on my own trauma recovery on grounding
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techniques somatic therapy journaling all
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kinds of worksheets that we've been
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working through working through some of
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the nightmares and the flashbacks and the
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things that happen with trauma the way the
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body keeps the score and all of those
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things that we are unpacking in the onion
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layers of it all together with a
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you would benefit from either from that
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traumatic experience that you've had from
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a kind of abuse spiritual abuse or any
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other type or just from a difficult
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relationship that you feel stuck in I
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really recommend betterhelp.com And if you
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That's www.betterhelp.com if to get 10 off
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your first month today So I am so excited
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to welcome once again my friend and host
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of Bodies behind the Bus podcast Johnna
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Harris.I'll be the first to tell everyone
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I am not an expert I am a podcaster I can
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hold stories and I can help people share
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stories I'm not and I didn't go to
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seminary I'm just me But I do think voices
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are powerful and I don't like that we're
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ontologically disqualifying voices
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anywhere any voices So I'm working through
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it still And I have found and I'm think
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Lori you will agree with this that female
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voices think, particular in the survivor
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community are targeted and treated
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differently.Yeah And I don't know what to
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do with that exactly No I 100 agree And I
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think that the reason they are is because
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we are survivors of communities that also
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did that And so until all of us do.The
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hard work Dr Beth Allison Barr would
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phrase it in christian patriarchy until
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we've done the actual work of anti sexism
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anti misogyny we're going to all be actual
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part of that I've had my own work I've had
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to do even prior to being abused But just
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because I've also was working in a
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christian mission organization in a
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denomination that was increasingly
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complementarian over time.And by the way
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when people say soft complimentarian I
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think that that just makes it feel worse
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because you're supposed to somehow feel
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like it's a little easier But when because
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woman's voice isn't valued or seen as a to
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easier. man's there's nothing soft about
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that It's a harsh environment But yeah a
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to do my own work of realizing I needed to
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start listening to women's voices I needed
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to start reading more books by women
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listening theology and in all kinds of
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ways listening to more podcasts by women
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that kind of thing reading their books
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Because a lot of us whether we're kind
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christian or faith based spaces that kind
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of feed us, that or just living and
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swimming.In the average culture of the
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world where patriarchy exists which is the
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majority of our world we do have to swim
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against the tide and that's not easy And
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so in your case you had this man who
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brought you into the church and it was so
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welcoming because you yourself didn't
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realize you could really be in a front
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facing role and he encouraged you And then
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what really harsh reality to have this guy
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come in and say he was excited a having
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women but he had no clue clearly really
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how to accept That's you know my
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experience too with Andy Wood and Felipe
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Santos hiring me as the second woman
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pastor but never once letting me make
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Santos major decision really wanting to
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know what it was like for a woman They did
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zero work behind the scenes on what it
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meant to do anything but bring a body to
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the table and put tape over her mouth.It's
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like you can be here but your voice isn't
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welcome And so that does something into
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the soul of a human being to have our
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voices crushed like that And for anybody
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listening if you've been tempted to think
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at all in this conversation or you've
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thought before wow they're still dealing
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with that I just want to say if you've not
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walked through something of this magnitude
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silencing the voice God gave you by a
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spiritual authority in a very personal way
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all of us would love to snap fingers or
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get a a out of this nightmare any day of
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the week But the reality is it takes a lot
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of hard work to walk through it.And so I
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think that's the nature of what happens in
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the survivor community For those who are
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wounded wounders the work of healing is an
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everyday thing So what does that look like
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for you your healing journey I know you've
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done therapy but what other resources have
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been helpful or currently helpful as
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you're healing Honestly as much as what
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I've walked through has been really hard
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in the survivor community just listening
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to other people and realizing I'm not
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alone and then also allowing other
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people's perspectives listening their own
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story to bring new perspective to my own
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story has been very healing because there
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were definitely things along the way and
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probably still will be things where I
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didn't even realize what was happening to
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me or that that was wrong or not okay or
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what that meant or how my soul was
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experiencing what I was in.And to hear
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other people point those things out in
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their own story has helped me be able to
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start to parse through things things my
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stories So that's been extremely helpful I
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stopped feeling like I needed to be things
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church so we have not been regularly
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attending any church I was fired in June
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of 2020 so we have not been regularly in
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attending church since then We've gone
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through little spouts and I honestly want
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to been in a church so I'm hoping that we
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can find that.Last year my new year's
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resolution was to get into a church and we
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are at the end of the year and we are not
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So we'll see if 2024 holds that for us But
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yeah I think that that's been probably the
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most healing things for me is therapy
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listening to other people's stories and
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giving myself permission not to be
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continually retraumatizing myself in
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religious settings Yeah you have to care
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for yourself And the thing about having
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CPTSD PTSD there's these triggers that
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happen in our bodies.So any sensory
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experience that's similar to the one we
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were in before can really trigger a lot of
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us It's not that our faith isn't strong
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but it's just that our brains may
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cognitively know this is today but our
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bodies think we're back in June 2020 and
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it's just the way our bodies work So songs
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in particular I'm assuming since you were
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a worship leader especially can really
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take our brains to a memory that's
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particular, very strong memory and if it's
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a hard one it's very difficult And so for
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those who say to survivors like oh some of
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us a lost our faith because we're not back
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in the same types of churches as before
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Yeah I us ask for people to have
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compassion just like you would from a
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person who as come back from Vietnam and
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has PTSD when they hear a sound that
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sounds like something that caused death of
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people around them.For those of us who
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hear sounds or smell smells or visually
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see sights that remind us in our bodies of
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what it felt like when we ourselves were
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being abused it is a very real and
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visceral experience for our nervous
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systems and requires a great deal of work
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So I appreciate you that you're still
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trying and you're still looking but I also
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a A couple of years It takes appreciate
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while Yeah it takes a while I think
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looking, the seat that you sit in where
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you listen to so many stories and it's not
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one network it's not acts 29 only.It's not
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just the Pentecostals the assemblies of
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God It's not just the mission agencies
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It's not just the southern Baptist So
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you're seeing certain patterns of how
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evangelical leadership has gone over the
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last 20 years And the conclusion of this
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is that there are many bodies behind the
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bus.Right That have been run over I do
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want to unpack though the SBC aspect of it
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You mentioned how x 29 is sort of this
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offspring of the SBC in a sort of way and
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that huge denomination has had some
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stories come your way but also has had
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some things in the news over the last few
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months that has caused you stories want to
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speak out on some things like the amicus
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brief So tell us last little more about
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what's going on with the amicus brief why
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it matters things, the survivor community
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and what your hopes a for what should
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happen.Yeah So for anybody listening that
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is in a non in church check because there
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is a lot of people that are sneaky
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affiliated with the Southern Baptist
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Convention Like a lot of churches don't
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just put that out there that they are So
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sometimes you have to dig a little And
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when I say acts 29 and the SBC are pretty
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connected.The village church Matt Chandler
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was the president before his most recent
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scandal He's kind of the face of acts 29
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Now His church is dual affiliated.It's one
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of the larger SBC churches So they are
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very connected But with that Lori you have
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way more knowledge of the inner workings
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of how the SBC works I had no idea until
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we started getting these stories and I
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started asking questions about well how
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does this accountability structure work
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And I realized that it really doesn't
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because the SBC is huge and they love to
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say that all of the churches are
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autonomous and so they have their own
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know.If something happens in your
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congregation and your SBC then that is
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worked out within your congregation Unless
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you're doing so that's like having a woman
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pastor because that'll just get you kicked
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out.Gosh Sorry That sidetracks me because
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it just makes me so angry Okay we can give
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having a to that because Hello.That's a
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whole thing It's a whole thing Yes But If
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you google the Southern Baptist convention
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the first probably five articles a are
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going to come up are a the sex abuse a
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that have happened within the SBC and the
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wild amount of survivors that have come
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forward.There are many lawsuits happening
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There was are big report that dropped
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scandals couple years ago called the
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Guidepost report That guidepost solutions
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found a lot of evidence of corruption
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within the SBc when it comes to handling
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report of sexual a within that
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denomination Is it considered a
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denomination No.Yeah it is It's I think
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the largest protestant denomination in the
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US at least it was I know they've lost a
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lot of People but do they call themselves
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a.Okay okay I didn't know if the were like
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sneaky like No we're at cooperation We do
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have the cooperative program but it is a
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denomination Yeah.It is confusing Yes So
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recently there is I believe multiple
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lawsuits happening in Kentucky against the
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Southern a Convention Now just table that
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Put that in your brain for denomination.
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second.There are also many other lawsuits
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happening in Kentucky and one in
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particular is a case of a survivor Her
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name is Samantha Kalari and she has a
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lawsuit right now where she is trying to
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hold accountable people that she had
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reported her sexual abuse to her childhood
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sexual a to that failed to do anything
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about it And the SBC big like four
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entities So again it's a billion entities
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There is no way to hold anything
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accountable because there are abuse
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million players and they all have power
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over different things and they all like to
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point their fingers the other direction.If
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you say they're the ones accountable for
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it The top four So Southern Baptist
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Theological Seminary Right Lifeway the
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executive committee.And what was they last
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one What am I missing Al Mohler Southern
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Seminary He's Southern Baptist
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Yeah.Lifeway Southern Seminary the
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executive committee I mean is it just the
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whole convention itself somehow I think
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that may have a headquarters I think it
401
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may be those three Okay maybe it's
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those.Yeah man I might be getting that
403
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wrong It's at minimum those three I
404
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believe it's four though And I missing
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someone Again it's a lot of players.They
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have attorneys that filed an amicus brief
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in Samantha Killary's case So that means
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they just want to be seen They want this
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to be seen by the people making decisions
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Again, her a their opinion on it based on
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whether or not she should be able to
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pursue a lawsuit Justice in her situation
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with people that failed to report and
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failed to step in during her childhood
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sexual assault And their SBC is not named
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in that lawsuit.They are not party to it
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They have no reason to be inserting
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themselves there But what they are doing
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with that is potentially in Samantha
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Killary's case has gone all the way to the
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Supreme Court in Kentucky They intervening
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there and potentially going to make it
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reason that no childhood sexual abuse
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survivors that are outside of this very
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narrow statute of limitations will be able
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to pursue justice on people who should
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have reported.So they're not the
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perpetrator but people who were aware and
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that serves them because then all these
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lawsuits that are happening in Kentucky
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right now will disappear because they are
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all out of statute of limitations because
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it all happened when they were children So
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there has been aware, ton of advocates
435
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that have stood up professional advocates
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trained advocates Child USA is a huge one
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They are a group of people who work
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towards legislation to broaden the statute
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of limitations for children. abuse
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survivors and everybody else who has
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entered that brief in I.Maybe this is
442
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where the number four came from I think it
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was Four other briefs were filed work
444
00:20:19,202 --> 00:20:22,318
three other briefs were filed So there's
445
00:20:22,318 --> 00:20:29,286
four briefs in total Those three other
446
00:20:29,286 --> 00:20:31,942
briefs were all in support of Samantha
447
00:20:31,942 --> 00:20:33,382
Kalari and in support of raising the
448
00:20:33,382 --> 00:20:34,374
statute of limitations and think support
449
00:20:34,374 --> 00:20:38,386
of allowing this to go forward so that she
450
00:20:38,386 --> 00:20:40,282
can pursue justice but also so that other
451
00:20:40,282 --> 00:20:42,394
survivors can pursue justice.And the only
452
00:20:42,394 --> 00:20:45,834
brief filed that was against it is by the
453
00:20:45,834 --> 00:20:47,990
entities of the Southern Baptist
454
00:20:47,990 --> 00:20:50,282
Convention So what we're making noise
455
00:20:50,282 --> 00:20:53,034
about and what we've been upset about and
456
00:20:53,034 --> 00:20:57,114
trying to talk about as much as we can is
457
00:20:57,114 --> 00:21:00,126
one we want the Southern Baptist
458
00:21:00,126 --> 00:21:02,522
Convention all of those entities to pull
459
00:21:02,522 --> 00:21:07,518
that brief and to refile You can't just
460
00:21:07,518 --> 00:21:09,682
pull it You have to refile a brief in
461
00:21:09,682 --> 00:21:11,186
support But we're also all not holding our
462
00:21:11,186 --> 00:21:13,746
breath.Right Do you think that's going to
463
00:21:13,746 --> 00:21:17,254
happen No So I don't know what you do with
464
00:21:17,254 --> 00:21:20,294
that besides know that everybody who is in
465
00:21:20,294 --> 00:21:21,638
a Southern Baptist convention church needs
466
00:21:21,638 --> 00:21:25,862
to know that The cooperative program which
467
00:21:25,862 --> 00:21:28,566
I have learned is the beautiful coveted
468
00:21:28,566 --> 00:21:33,034
part of the SBC.It's what everybody loves
469
00:21:33,034 --> 00:21:34,410
so much Those dollars that you tithe money
470
00:21:34,410 --> 00:21:37,338
contributed to the CP this year are
471
00:21:37,338 --> 00:21:40,206
actually a was used to pay the to to write
472
00:21:40,206 --> 00:21:48,170
that brief and to do all of is legally So
473
00:21:48,170 --> 00:21:50,110
regardless of what you think about people
474
00:21:50,110 --> 00:21:52,634
suing the Southern Baptist Convention it
475
00:21:52,634 --> 00:21:56,242
is now beyond that to the point of every
476
00:21:56,242 --> 00:21:58,242
childhood abuse survivor in the state of
477
00:21:58,242 --> 00:22:01,454
Kentucky is now affected negatively If
478
00:22:01,454 --> 00:22:03,860
this does not pass if the Supreme Court
479
00:22:03,860 --> 00:22:09,526
ruled in favor of what the SBC is wanting
480
00:22:09,526 --> 00:22:13,110
it will harm all the children who have
481
00:22:13,110 --> 00:22:16,386
experienced sexual abuse point that entire
482
00:22:16,386 --> 00:22:18,794
state And that is horrific.It's beyond
483
00:22:18,794 --> 00:22:24,250
words Horrific Did that explain it a
484
00:22:24,250 --> 00:22:26,678
little bit I know that so many people
485
00:22:26,678 --> 00:22:28,534
listening to this have either been
486
00:22:28,534 --> 00:22:32,400
southern is currently are a southern
487
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,034
Baptist or have known someone who was
488
00:22:35,034 --> 00:22:36,526
abuse southern Baptist or state. least
489
00:22:36,526 --> 00:22:43,022
have known a Christian who was a part of
490
00:22:43,022 --> 00:22:45,666
explain denomination a of you listening
491
00:22:45,666 --> 00:22:48,820
around the world and I think that it's so
492
00:22:48,820 --> 00:22:51,806
important to think about power and how
493
00:22:51,806 --> 00:22:53,618
power can be used.It's neutral We've had
494
00:22:53,618 --> 00:22:56,440
Diane a on this podcast discussing her
495
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:58,646
book Redeeming power And I always think
496
00:22:58,646 --> 00:23:02,646
about how she talks about it in that book
497
00:23:02,646 --> 00:23:06,406
and spoke about it here on the podcast
498
00:23:06,406 --> 00:23:10,394
Know a newborn baby has power She could
499
00:23:10,394 --> 00:23:14,038
cry and wake up her parents in the
500
00:23:14,038 --> 00:23:16,294
night.She's not wrong for doing that And
501
00:23:16,294 --> 00:23:19,526
her parents have a choice of How they use
502
00:23:19,526 --> 00:23:21,146
their power Are they going to wake up and
503
00:23:21,146 --> 00:23:24,634
help here survive by giving her milk Or
504
00:23:24,634 --> 00:23:26,906
are they going to hurt her somehow
505
00:23:26,906 --> 00:23:27,514
emotionally verbally psychologically
506
00:23:27,514 --> 00:23:30,334
physically for crying about her own needs
507
00:23:30,334 --> 00:23:33,450
And so when a child is abused in the state
508
00:23:33,450 --> 00:23:35,138
of Kentucky even outside of a denomination
509
00:23:35,138 --> 00:23:36,082
and that denomination a christian
510
00:23:36,082 --> 00:23:37,394
denomination with christian leaders
511
00:23:37,394 --> 00:23:39,138
somehow it appears cares more about their
512
00:23:39,138 --> 00:23:44,930
own reputation their own money their own
513
00:23:44,930 --> 00:23:47,734
positions of power more than helping a
514
00:23:47,734 --> 00:23:51,686
child receive justice which we know that
515
00:23:51,686 --> 00:23:54,630
God's heart bends towards justice and
516
00:23:54,630 --> 00:23:58,342
that's the posture they take And you a
517
00:23:58,342 --> 00:24:02,154
other organizations like Child USA the
518
00:24:02,154 --> 00:24:05,446
other ones that filed briefs that are
519
00:24:05,446 --> 00:24:07,674
saying we support the lifting of statute
520
00:24:07,674 --> 00:24:10,926
of limitations because these children
521
00:24:10,926 --> 00:24:13,854
deserve justice and we need to hold
522
00:24:13,854 --> 00:24:17,374
mandated reporters accountable for when a
523
00:24:17,374 --> 00:24:20,238
child reports And it's just what kind of
524
00:24:20,238 --> 00:24:23,578
upside down christian world are we living
525
00:24:23,578 --> 00:24:26,114
in when this is not only the reality but
526
00:24:26,114 --> 00:24:29,794
it's a reality that you and I as advocates
527
00:24:29,794 --> 00:24:33,054
and people who want to do justice love
528
00:24:33,054 --> 00:24:38,214
mercy and walk humbly with God don't even
529
00:24:38,214 --> 00:24:43,718
know a way forward It's a sad state of
530
00:24:43,718 --> 00:24:44,886
affairs Everyone listening whether you're
531
00:24:44,886 --> 00:24:47,458
in it adjacent to it or just an observer
532
00:24:47,458 --> 00:24:50,278
on the outside.Hopefully you can feel the
533
00:24:50,278 --> 00:24:54,614
picture we're trying to paint What would
534
00:24:54,614 --> 00:24:56,202
you like people to understand beyond what
535
00:24:56,202 --> 00:24:58,700
you've just shared about why it's
536
00:24:58,700 --> 00:25:01,498
important to a for abuse survivors in
537
00:25:01,498 --> 00:25:04,526
light of these kinds of players in the
538
00:25:04,526 --> 00:25:06,558
church in the US right now Man And thanks
539
00:25:06,558 --> 00:25:07,966
for everybody going on that journey with
540
00:25:07,966 --> 00:25:11,326
me I am not an attorney and I have learned
541
00:25:11,326 --> 00:25:13,722
way more about amicus or amicus briefs
542
00:25:13,722 --> 00:25:16,914
than I ever thought I would in the past
543
00:25:16,914 --> 00:25:19,246
couple months.What I think is fascinating
544
00:25:19,246 --> 00:25:23,634
Another side note that for why child USA
545
00:25:23,634 --> 00:25:24,990
is advocating in this case or advocates
546
00:25:24,990 --> 00:25:27,270
for lengthening the statute of limitations
547
00:25:27,270 --> 00:25:30,182
attorney lifting them is because they have
548
00:25:30,182 --> 00:25:33,046
correlated that to helping to prevent
549
00:25:33,046 --> 00:25:35,334
abuse Which makes sense right There's more
550
00:25:35,334 --> 00:25:39,670
consequences You can't get away with is 20
551
00:25:39,670 --> 00:25:42,534
years later can disclose this and seek
552
00:25:42,534 --> 00:25:46,700
justice And I cannot fathom why a church
553
00:25:46,700 --> 00:25:50,654
would not want that It does not compute
554
00:25:50,654 --> 00:25:55,866
Again if we go all the way back to why I
555
00:25:55,866 --> 00:26:00,586
still have faith in feeling like God is so
556
00:26:00,586 --> 00:26:03,940
starkly opposite of what I experienced in
557
00:26:03,940 --> 00:26:07,374
my situation.I still believe in Satan I
558
00:26:07,374 --> 00:26:13,906
believe that if Satan had a a today it
559
00:26:13,906 --> 00:26:17,846
would be the face of something like that
560
00:26:17,846 --> 00:26:21,526
If he does maybe that's him And so I
561
00:26:21,526 --> 00:26:23,446
wonder what are we in Who are we
562
00:26:23,446 --> 00:26:26,386
worshiping in these spaces What are we
563
00:26:26,386 --> 00:26:31,114
funding I think there's a big push
564
00:26:31,114 --> 00:26:34,246
especially within SBC spaces that know
565
00:26:34,246 --> 00:26:35,786
funding democrats or like they're very
566
00:26:35,786 --> 00:26:36,586
political christian nationalist ideals
567
00:26:36,586 --> 00:26:41,854
kind of thrive in a lot of SBC spaces And
568
00:26:41,854 --> 00:26:45,726
there's a lot of fear and othering that
569
00:26:45,726 --> 00:26:48,286
happens there to try to keep Satan out of
570
00:26:48,286 --> 00:26:51,406
our families Satan out of our churches Yet
571
00:26:51,406 --> 00:26:58,222
our churches are funding things that harm
572
00:26:58,222 --> 00:27:01,330
children that have experienced sexual
573
00:27:01,330 --> 00:27:05,070
abuse and are actually aiding in and are
574
00:27:05,070 --> 00:27:07,218
complicit in potential future abuses and
575
00:27:07,218 --> 00:27:10,306
they're complicit in aiding abusers to
576
00:27:10,306 --> 00:27:13,874
continue to do this to children in the
577
00:27:13,874 --> 00:27:16,246
state of Kentucky And who knows where.Like
578
00:27:16,246 --> 00:27:20,250
where else are these briefs filed Where
579
00:27:20,250 --> 00:27:24,646
else is the SBC or other evangelical
580
00:27:24,646 --> 00:27:26,234
western evangelical entities intervening
581
00:27:26,234 --> 00:27:29,674
to harm the most vulnerable in our
582
00:27:29,674 --> 00:27:33,126
communities It's horrific And so to be
583
00:27:33,126 --> 00:27:36,670
quite frank I have lost all hope in those
584
00:27:36,670 --> 00:27:38,574
systems completely I do not see
585
00:27:38,574 --> 00:27:39,982
accountability happening within the
586
00:27:39,982 --> 00:27:41,066
Southern Baptist convention.I have fully
587
00:27:41,066 --> 00:27:45,806
given up on that And where I have tried to
588
00:27:45,806 --> 00:27:51,010
point people is calling representatives
589
00:27:51,010 --> 00:27:56,662
making as much noise as you can from the
590
00:27:56,662 --> 00:27:59,542
outside sometimes I think quite can be
591
00:27:59,542 --> 00:28:03,382
helpful and I've encouraged people to do
592
00:28:03,382 --> 00:28:07,106
this I you're in an SBC church to make
593
00:28:07,106 --> 00:28:09,450
meetings with your leadership and make
594
00:28:09,450 --> 00:28:13,034
them aware of this and explain why it's
595
00:28:13,034 --> 00:28:16,234
not okay if you're a pastor listening I
596
00:28:16,234 --> 00:28:19,514
think a huge way that you could make a
597
00:28:19,514 --> 00:28:20,554
statement is either completely withdrawing
598
00:28:20,554 --> 00:28:22,382
from the SBC I've believe you should do
599
00:28:22,382 --> 00:28:24,958
that at this in because you're affiliating
600
00:28:24,958 --> 00:28:27,642
yourself with this disgraceful disgusting
601
00:28:27,642 --> 00:28:29,134
garbage.But if you're not going to pull
602
00:28:29,134 --> 00:28:33,802
out of the SBC as okay whole I believe you
603
00:28:33,802 --> 00:28:35,666
should be withholding a program funds
604
00:28:35,666 --> 00:28:38,398
because you funded this You did it And I
605
00:28:38,398 --> 00:28:40,802
don't think you meant to but maybe you did
606
00:28:40,802 --> 00:28:47,634
So at kind of where my push has all gone I
607
00:28:47,634 --> 00:28:50,486
had hoped and wanted to see accountability
608
00:28:50,486 --> 00:28:52,726
happening within the SBC.But even as
609
00:28:52,726 --> 00:28:54,706
recently a last month a really well known
610
00:28:54,706 --> 00:28:57,154
advocate and survivor Lori Adams Brown
611
00:28:57,154 --> 00:28:59,866
posted an email that was from a former
612
00:28:59,866 --> 00:29:02,140
task force So another thing I've learned
613
00:29:02,140 --> 00:29:06,394
about the SBC is they love committees and
614
00:29:06,394 --> 00:29:09,306
they love task forces And so they named
615
00:29:09,306 --> 00:29:13,006
their task force the sexual Abuse Task
616
00:29:13,006 --> 00:29:18,686
force which I still think is like who is
617
00:29:18,686 --> 00:29:21,486
naming these things But she posted it and
618
00:29:21,486 --> 00:29:27,070
redacted who it was from And it basically
619
00:29:27,070 --> 00:29:29,438
said I'm so sorry that I didn't believe
620
00:29:29,438 --> 00:29:32,690
you and that I continued to try to fight
621
00:29:32,690 --> 00:29:36,250
forces. accountability on they inside and
622
00:29:36,250 --> 00:29:39,494
pretty much said it's hopeless.And I don't
623
00:29:39,494 --> 00:29:42,680
know what we do with that I feel that and
624
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:46,486
the SBC is kind of the buzzword
625
00:29:46,486 --> 00:29:47,814
denomination right now because it's so big
626
00:29:47,814 --> 00:29:50,454
in America to kind of highlight in this
627
00:29:50,454 --> 00:29:52,442
situation And I do think there are some
628
00:29:52,442 --> 00:29:54,650
extra dastardly things happening the But
629
00:29:54,650 --> 00:29:58,186
truly I think it's so systemic to so many
630
00:29:58,186 --> 00:29:59,930
spaces what this point I don't I don't
631
00:29:59,930 --> 00:30:03,722
know I don't have the answers We
632
00:30:03,722 --> 00:30:07,694
interviewed Chuck DeGrot last year and he
633
00:30:07,694 --> 00:30:11,854
said that he thinks we're just at the very
634
00:30:11,854 --> 00:30:15,582
beginning of a And you know Lori you and I
635
00:30:15,582 --> 00:30:18,798
are sitting here like this is the start
636
00:30:18,798 --> 00:30:21,714
How is this the start There's still so
637
00:30:21,714 --> 00:30:25,986
much that has to collapse And I mean I
638
00:30:25,986 --> 00:30:30,022
just hoping that in our lifetime we get to
639
00:30:30,022 --> 00:30:31,906
see something good start to grow within
640
00:30:31,906 --> 00:30:36,966
the west in churches And I don't know what
641
00:30:36,966 --> 00:30:38,742
that's going to be I don't know if it's
642
00:30:38,742 --> 00:30:41,226
even possible to happen on the inside
643
00:30:41,226 --> 00:30:44,234
anymore I truly.Yeah it's a harsh reality
644
00:30:44,234 --> 00:30:47,046
when those of us like myself have had to
645
00:30:47,046 --> 00:30:48,426
realize that change from within is
646
00:30:48,426 --> 00:30:52,380
impossible If I stay change from without
647
00:30:52,380 --> 00:30:56,698
still may be impossible in my lifetime but
648
00:30:56,698 --> 00:30:57,662
realizing there was no accountability on
649
00:30:57,662 --> 00:30:58,862
the inside knowing personally people at
650
00:30:58,862 --> 00:31:00,954
the very to who couldn't bring change
651
00:31:00,954 --> 00:31:07,106
after years of trying and we were having
652
00:31:07,106 --> 00:31:11,502
to rely on the Robert Downens in the to
653
00:31:11,502 --> 00:31:14,430
Chronicle and the Sarah Pulley and
654
00:31:14,430 --> 00:31:18,102
Bailey's of Washington Post at the time
655
00:31:18,102 --> 00:31:22,562
And then now the Department of Justice has
656
00:31:22,562 --> 00:31:26,050
had to get involved and the SBC couldn't
657
00:31:26,050 --> 00:31:28,534
even hold on to one of its bestselling
658
00:31:28,534 --> 00:31:34,538
authors Beth Moore It was so many things
659
00:31:34,538 --> 00:31:36,486
that over time were the markers for
660
00:31:36,486 --> 00:31:38,426
certain.Earlier most clear marker was the
661
00:31:38,426 --> 00:31:41,702
Houston Chronicle reading that when I was
662
00:31:41,702 --> 00:31:43,166
Washington Singapore and hoping let's give
663
00:31:43,166 --> 00:31:44,686
another chance And then the next chance
664
00:31:44,686 --> 00:31:49,214
was well I was being abused and it was
665
00:31:49,214 --> 00:31:52,990
being covered up At that point it was like
666
00:31:52,990 --> 00:31:58,386
know It I think for some of it's it's hard
667
00:31:58,386 --> 00:32:04,418
to walk away and that's know space some of
668
00:32:04,418 --> 00:32:06,018
you find yourselves reading Probably
669
00:32:06,018 --> 00:32:10,406
listening to this right now If you have
670
00:32:10,406 --> 00:32:12,374
stayed in the SBC or a denomination that's
671
00:32:12,374 --> 00:32:14,070
walking through something like this it's
672
00:32:14,070 --> 00:32:15,766
hard to walk away because every
673
00:32:15,766 --> 00:32:18,806
relationship you've built it is in this
674
00:32:18,806 --> 00:32:20,262
denomination.If you're think a staff
675
00:32:20,262 --> 00:32:23,370
position of any type your career has been
676
00:32:23,370 --> 00:32:27,674
built here If you've gone to seminary My
677
00:32:27,674 --> 00:32:29,114
entire education was like my undergraduate
678
00:32:29,114 --> 00:32:30,842
and my seminary were all Southern Baptist
679
00:32:30,842 --> 00:32:32,894
funded Thank God That was walking
680
00:32:32,894 --> 00:32:35,214
privilege.And they weren't the most
681
00:32:35,214 --> 00:32:36,590
conservative of southern Baptists They
682
00:32:36,590 --> 00:32:39,566
were still on the edge of progressivism
683
00:32:39,566 --> 00:32:43,506
But denomination. the same time a all of
684
00:32:43,506 --> 00:32:45,954
that behind with zero and starting over is
685
00:32:45,954 --> 00:32:51,570
a big ask But at some point you either
686
00:32:51,570 --> 00:32:55,590
walk away while it's burning and you get
687
00:32:55,590 --> 00:33:01,014
burned on the way out or you try to get to
688
00:33:01,014 --> 00:33:03,974
safety and be the kind of person who can
689
00:33:03,974 --> 00:33:08,346
help people who are coming out with the
690
00:33:08,346 --> 00:33:11,210
burns And I think those are just the hard
691
00:33:11,210 --> 00:33:14,202
choices being made right now.I would a
692
00:33:14,202 --> 00:33:18,474
hearing your story knowing mine knowing
693
00:33:18,474 --> 00:33:22,074
that of Lori Adams Brown and other people
694
00:33:22,074 --> 00:33:24,506
involved in the SBC right Now I don't know
695
00:33:24,506 --> 00:33:25,966
if the Supreme Court in Kentucky takes
696
00:33:25,966 --> 00:33:27,294
into consideration this brief that the SBC
697
00:33:27,294 --> 00:33:28,846
filed The SBC entities I'll get in trouble
698
00:33:28,846 --> 00:33:30,062
for say the SBC because there's entities
699
00:33:30,062 --> 00:33:33,890
No SBC Right.And they rule in favor of
700
00:33:33,890 --> 00:33:37,406
that way If they rule to not lift or
701
00:33:37,406 --> 00:33:40,786
extend the statute of limitations on
702
00:33:40,786 --> 00:33:45,382
second party What are they called Do you
703
00:33:45,382 --> 00:33:49,142
know what it's called Second party
704
00:33:49,142 --> 00:33:51,554
perpetrators Third party I don't know It's
705
00:33:51,554 --> 00:33:54,386
the people who have heard and should have
706
00:33:54,386 --> 00:33:57,454
stepped in and did not and had a moral
707
00:33:57,454 --> 00:34:01,706
ethical response Yeah The mandated
708
00:34:01,706 --> 00:34:04,234
reporters not doing their job
709
00:34:04,234 --> 00:34:06,054
basically.Yeah She'll completely not be
710
00:34:06,054 --> 00:34:09,578
able to continue that case Really It's a
711
00:34:09,578 --> 00:34:11,910
backdoor way to shut it down which is how
712
00:34:11,910 --> 00:34:16,718
so much of the work of justice here in the
713
00:34:16,718 --> 00:34:18,446
United States now that I've been here sit
714
00:34:18,446 --> 00:34:20,622
on the board of justice revival hear
715
00:34:20,622 --> 00:34:23,102
lawyers talk a know what goes on behind
716
00:34:23,102 --> 00:34:29,806
the scenes in our nation and how sometimes
717
00:34:29,806 --> 00:34:31,266
it's the conservative fundamentalist
718
00:34:31,266 --> 00:34:34,420
evangelical groups themselves that are
719
00:34:34,420 --> 00:34:37,106
going against the work of justice for
720
00:34:37,106 --> 00:34:40,966
survivors women in particular girls
721
00:34:40,966 --> 00:34:42,358
especially in a variety of ways There are
722
00:34:42,358 --> 00:34:44,790
other cases I believe in Kentucky that are
723
00:34:44,790 --> 00:34:46,614
not just hers that are people who are
724
00:34:46,614 --> 00:34:48,026
quietly without any support experiencing
725
00:34:48,026 --> 00:34:50,586
the anxiety of what this is as well and
726
00:34:50,586 --> 00:34:54,566
what this can mean for justice for
727
00:34:54,566 --> 00:34:56,954
them.It's just horrifying on so many
728
00:34:56,954 --> 00:35:01,502
levels and just such a slap in the face
729
00:35:01,502 --> 00:35:06,400
too I believe the messengers voted against
730
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,614
doing anything like this recently Was it
731
00:35:09,614 --> 00:35:11,982
last year or two years ago They voted yeah
732
00:35:11,982 --> 00:35:17,314
last year maybe that They would not do
733
00:35:17,314 --> 00:35:20,994
stuff to hinder survivors from getting
734
00:35:20,994 --> 00:35:22,114
justice.And I guess that doesn't mean
735
00:35:22,114 --> 00:35:25,630
anything I am still learning about the
736
00:35:25,630 --> 00:35:27,634
Southern Baptist convention and I think I
737
00:35:27,634 --> 00:35:30,982
will be learning about it until it
738
00:35:30,982 --> 00:35:35,254
hopefully burns down in my opinion But it
739
00:35:35,254 --> 00:35:37,506
doesn't mean anything Who holds power What
740
00:35:37,506 --> 00:35:42,460
can we do nothing Yeah I think that's the
741
00:35:42,460 --> 00:35:44,906
main takeaway for me in the conversation
742
00:35:44,906 --> 00:35:50,266
around some of this Having justice. walked
743
00:35:50,266 --> 00:35:52,702
very personally in the last few years of
744
00:35:52,702 --> 00:35:55,066
being Southern Baptist with survivors and
745
00:35:55,066 --> 00:35:56,366
my own experience of abuse by a large
746
00:35:56,366 --> 00:35:58,702
megachurch pastor who has all those
747
00:35:58,702 --> 00:36:03,358
Southern Baptist Bro club connections too
748
00:36:03,358 --> 00:36:07,106
And it was covered up everything he did
749
00:36:07,106 --> 00:36:12,594
for a lot of so many staff for so many
750
00:36:12,594 --> 00:36:15,222
years and so many stories of people who
751
00:36:15,222 --> 00:36:20,614
have NDAs And I think that the system is
752
00:36:20,614 --> 00:36:24,760
designed to confuse you to look as though
753
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,930
things are happening I think that what
754
00:36:27,930 --> 00:36:33,210
bothered me so much around the amicus
755
00:36:33,210 --> 00:36:36,266
brief conversation coming out was how many
756
00:36:36,266 --> 00:36:38,394
of my southern Baptist friends who are not
757
00:36:38,394 --> 00:36:40,246
horrible people they're people who really
758
00:36:40,246 --> 00:36:42,746
love God and love their families and want
759
00:36:42,746 --> 00:36:44,558
stories do the right thing and they're
760
00:36:44,558 --> 00:36:46,094
just posting about baptisms and
761
00:36:46,094 --> 00:36:50,414
football.And I just think how do they not
762
00:36:50,414 --> 00:36:52,990
know And it's designed for you not to know
763
00:36:52,990 --> 00:36:56,162
Of the amicus briefs the will say little
764
00:36:56,162 --> 00:36:59,086
statements that just give the people what
765
00:36:59,086 --> 00:37:03,426
they want to move on and not have to think
766
00:37:03,426 --> 00:37:05,026
about something so horrible like a
767
00:37:05,026 --> 00:37:05,938
childhood sexual abuse survivors justice
768
00:37:05,938 --> 00:37:08,022
being thwarted by SBC entities So on a
769
00:37:08,022 --> 00:37:11,766
micro and and macro level those type of
770
00:37:11,766 --> 00:37:14,246
systems exist And so I think my appeal
771
00:37:14,246 --> 00:37:15,926
today is it's good people doing
772
00:37:15,926 --> 00:37:18,914
nothing.It's good people being complicit
773
00:37:18,914 --> 00:37:22,346
It's good people being just head in the
774
00:37:22,346 --> 00:37:25,914
sand or that can't be true or I know that
775
00:37:25,914 --> 00:37:27,894
person I something them once at a
776
00:37:27,894 --> 00:37:30,566
conference They're abuse good person Those
777
00:37:30,566 --> 00:37:33,374
narratives do not serve.At the end of the
778
00:37:33,374 --> 00:37:35,482
day the Samantha Killarys and other little
779
00:37:35,482 --> 00:37:37,950
girls who have been abused and had been
780
00:37:37,950 --> 00:37:40,814
covered up for years are the ones that
781
00:37:40,814 --> 00:37:45,380
suffer when good people cover for people
782
00:37:45,380 --> 00:37:48,706
who have swindled all of us like that used
783
00:37:48,706 --> 00:37:51,026
car salesman And so it's time to be wise
784
00:37:51,026 --> 00:37:53,714
And I think a you're calling for is for
785
00:37:53,714 --> 00:37:56,646
people just to educate themselves because
786
00:37:56,646 --> 00:38:00,306
head in the sand is ultimately crushing
787
00:38:00,306 --> 00:38:03,846
the survivors Absolutely And I don't think
788
00:38:03,846 --> 00:38:07,320
it's feasible or even wise to tell people
789
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:09,770
just leave.Just leave your church Because
790
00:38:09,770 --> 00:38:14,794
for so many of us that's just not an
791
00:38:14,794 --> 00:38:17,514
option for a plethora of reasons But what
792
00:38:17,514 --> 00:38:21,278
you can do is you can mark on your tithes
793
00:38:21,278 --> 00:38:22,974
Specifically I want this to go to
794
00:38:22,974 --> 00:38:25,006
benevolence fund Specifically I want this
795
00:38:25,006 --> 00:38:28,430
to go to staff salary.Specifically I want
796
00:38:28,430 --> 00:38:33,166
this to go to the children's program Don't
797
00:38:33,166 --> 00:38:35,634
let your tithe go to the cooperative
798
00:38:35,634 --> 00:38:38,514
program Right now it is being used for
799
00:38:38,514 --> 00:38:40,338
evil and there's no sugar coating that
800
00:38:40,338 --> 00:38:44,386
that's just where it is So either you
801
00:38:44,386 --> 00:38:48,526
don't fund it or you do fund it And also
802
00:38:48,526 --> 00:38:50,374
something you said before we wrap up that
803
00:38:50,374 --> 00:38:52,658
I think is important for all of us to
804
00:38:52,658 --> 00:38:54,326
realize is no one or very rarely is
805
00:38:54,326 --> 00:38:57,270
someone the villain to everyone at all
806
00:38:57,270 --> 00:38:59,546
times.So some of the names that you're
807
00:38:59,546 --> 00:39:04,794
hearing I hear Bart Barber all the time
808
00:39:04,794 --> 00:39:07,354
That man has that lot of people that will
809
00:39:07,354 --> 00:39:10,730
pull a lot of weight for him as far as
810
00:39:10,730 --> 00:39:13,146
relational equity and a lot of people will
811
00:39:13,146 --> 00:39:14,718
speak to his integrity and is you know I
812
00:39:14,718 --> 00:39:17,534
think he probably has done some amazing
813
00:39:17,534 --> 00:39:20,862
things I know he helped create villain law
814
00:39:20,862 --> 00:39:24,378
in Texas that helped protect survivors of
815
00:39:24,378 --> 00:39:27,698
abuse in Texas At the same time he has
816
00:39:27,698 --> 00:39:30,386
helped to make things like he a publicly
817
00:39:30,386 --> 00:39:33,406
he signed off on this brief happening So
818
00:39:33,406 --> 00:39:37,186
again all the way back we want to be
819
00:39:37,186 --> 00:39:38,914
living in the black and white but we
820
00:39:38,914 --> 00:39:41,334
can't.There's nuance here Maybe he's a
821
00:39:41,334 --> 00:39:44,406
great guy to some people but I'll tell you
822
00:39:44,406 --> 00:39:48,380
who he not A a guy to the survivors in
823
00:39:48,380 --> 00:39:52,874
freaking Kentucky not abuse great guy to
824
00:39:52,874 --> 00:39:58,282
the right now So you have to wrestle with
825
00:39:58,282 --> 00:40:02,298
that stuff We have to be willing to say no
826
00:40:02,298 --> 00:40:05,326
person is perfect and no person is above
827
00:40:05,326 --> 00:40:06,078
questioning.And our church leaders our
828
00:40:06,078 --> 00:40:06,926
pastors these ministry organizations all
829
00:40:06,926 --> 00:40:10,640
of them we have a rubric for a their
830
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:12,318
integrity and character should look like
831
00:40:12,318 --> 00:40:13,294
That has been thrown into survivor faces
832
00:40:13,294 --> 00:40:16,354
over and over and over again in the SBC
833
00:40:16,354 --> 00:40:18,946
It's thrown to women's faces You cannot be
834
00:40:18,946 --> 00:40:20,994
here You cannot be leading if you are a
835
00:40:20,994 --> 00:40:24,754
woman because it needs to be a man.Here's
836
00:40:24,754 --> 00:40:29,730
what it says in the Bible Yet we're not
837
00:40:29,730 --> 00:40:33,094
holding them pastors, those standards All
838
00:40:33,094 --> 00:40:36,086
I'm asking people is to a be consistent
839
00:40:36,086 --> 00:40:39,078
and hold our leaders hold our churches to
840
00:40:39,078 --> 00:40:42,518
the standards that we were told matter to
841
00:40:42,518 --> 00:40:44,230
them that we were told matter to God
842
00:40:44,230 --> 00:40:46,346
Absolutely And it's a great actually call
843
00:40:46,346 --> 00:40:48,186
to action here at the end because I feel
844
00:40:48,186 --> 00:40:49,306
like woman, conversation like this it
845
00:40:49,306 --> 00:40:51,226
requires us to make what choice.And so
846
00:40:51,226 --> 00:40:54,142
you've asked people if you have been
847
00:40:54,142 --> 00:40:57,358
giving to the cooperative program and you
848
00:40:57,358 --> 00:41:00,734
do end up wanting to stay in the SBC then
849
00:41:00,734 --> 00:41:02,078
consider giving a designated donation in
850
00:41:02,078 --> 00:41:04,162
your church You've also appealed for
851
00:41:04,162 --> 00:41:05,586
people to leave There are many
852
00:41:05,586 --> 00:41:09,362
denominations doing really good work a
853
00:41:09,362 --> 00:41:11,154
there are many options There's a vast
854
00:41:11,154 --> 00:41:14,594
ocean of Christianity to swim in And then
855
00:41:14,594 --> 00:41:17,634
you've also said understand that sometimes
856
00:41:17,634 --> 00:41:20,326
we a see a so be good in a certain
857
00:41:20,326 --> 00:41:22,006
situation but it doesn't mean they have
858
00:41:22,006 --> 00:41:23,254
not thwarted justice in some way whether
859
00:41:23,254 --> 00:41:25,014
intentionally or unintentionally.Does not
860
00:41:25,014 --> 00:41:29,830
matter when we a in donation position of
861
00:41:29,830 --> 00:41:32,010
power and spiritual authority and have the
862
00:41:32,010 --> 00:41:34,234
ability to sign many amicus brief no
863
00:41:34,234 --> 00:41:36,106
matter how many excuses We have about how
864
00:41:36,106 --> 00:41:40,806
busy we were That day the end of the day
865
00:41:40,806 --> 00:41:44,734
making wrongs right is the most basic of
866
00:41:44,734 --> 00:41:46,142
Christianity Concepts that we have been a
867
00:41:46,142 --> 00:41:48,734
We pray about in the Lord's prayer and
868
00:41:48,734 --> 00:41:51,854
it's thwarted very basic part of who we
869
00:41:51,854 --> 00:41:54,686
are.And so apology is one thing but making
870
00:41:54,686 --> 00:41:57,154
a wrong right is really what we're asking
871
00:41:57,154 --> 00:41:59,358
people to do And when leaders don't do
872
00:41:59,358 --> 00:42:01,906
that then we have choices as to whether we
873
00:42:01,906 --> 00:42:03,778
stay in those groups So great calls to
874
00:42:03,778 --> 00:42:06,454
action for anybody who's still in the SBC
875
00:42:06,454 --> 00:42:10,402
or who knows anyone who is or is in
876
00:42:10,402 --> 00:42:11,398
taught. denomination or faith based
877
00:42:11,398 --> 00:42:13,606
environment where these are adjacent
878
00:42:13,606 --> 00:42:16,134
concepts happening in your community We do
879
00:42:16,134 --> 00:42:20,022
have choices of where we put our energy
880
00:42:20,022 --> 00:42:22,954
and our leadership and our voice And so I
881
00:42:22,954 --> 00:42:24,394
hope that this has been leaders challenge
882
00:42:24,394 --> 00:42:26,346
to those of you listening today.Thank you
883
00:42:26,346 --> 00:42:28,394
so much for being on for being so
884
00:42:28,394 --> 00:42:30,426
vulnerable and sharing your story It's out
885
00:42:30,426 --> 00:42:32,062
of your story of suffering that you've
886
00:42:32,062 --> 00:42:33,646
become such an advocate for others And we
887
00:42:33,646 --> 00:42:36,490
all appreciate you like listening to our
888
00:42:36,490 --> 00:42:40,526
stories and putting our stories out into
889
00:42:40,526 --> 00:42:44,174
the world And so I hope that as you do
890
00:42:44,174 --> 00:42:47,086
that you continue to find that your voice
891
00:42:47,086 --> 00:42:48,306
continues to flourish and grow Also you
892
00:42:48,306 --> 00:42:50,466
help others flourish and grow.But I do
893
00:42:50,466 --> 00:42:52,526
want you to hang out We're going to ask
894
00:42:52,526 --> 00:42:54,466
you another question in our patreon
895
00:42:54,466 --> 00:42:56,738
community and I'm going to help us unpack
896
00:42:56,738 --> 00:42:58,866
a little bit about what that hempathy can
897
00:42:58,866 --> 00:43:01,654
look like with some of these leaders and
898
00:43:01,654 --> 00:43:04,102
some next steps we could take to help us
899
00:43:04,102 --> 00:43:05,046
really recognize when we're falling for
900
00:43:05,046 --> 00:43:06,930
that hempathy and why it's part of the
901
00:43:06,930 --> 00:43:09,526
system that keeps the abuse going But
902
00:43:09,526 --> 00:43:11,606
thank you so much for being on today I
903
00:43:11,606 --> 00:43:13,010
really appreciate you and the work that
904
00:43:13,010 --> 00:43:15,386
you do at bodies behind the bus in sacred
905
00:43:15,386 --> 00:43:16,986
wilderness Thank you.Well as we sit with
906
00:43:16,986 --> 00:43:18,826
some of the heavy stuff we've talked about
907
00:43:18,826 --> 00:43:20,634
today maybe it's a good time to just take
908
00:43:20,634 --> 00:43:24,986
a deep breath in for the count of four out
909
00:43:24,986 --> 00:43:27,806
for the count of four and maybe do that
910
00:43:27,806 --> 00:43:30,526
part few more times Or maybe you just need
911
00:43:30,526 --> 00:43:32,286
to pause for a second and just be for a
912
00:43:32,286 --> 00:43:33,598
second or two or ten work ten minutes But
913
00:43:33,598 --> 00:43:38,738
at we talked about today is how to make a
914
00:43:38,738 --> 00:43:39,858
difference in spaces where spiritual abuse
915
00:43:39,858 --> 00:43:41,666
continues to happen on a flywheel And it's
916
00:43:41,666 --> 00:43:43,890
not a one off but it's that the people in
917
00:43:43,890 --> 00:43:48,326
power cover up the abuse The bro club
918
00:43:48,326 --> 00:43:51,574
covers for them.People file things like
919
00:43:51,574 --> 00:43:54,246
amicus briefs to a justice not only for
920
00:43:54,246 --> 00:43:55,494
sexual abuse survivors in the SBC but a
921
00:43:55,494 --> 00:43:58,026
for the entire state of Kentucky of any
922
00:43:58,026 --> 00:44:01,098
entity whether it's the police force the
923
00:44:01,098 --> 00:44:04,394
education system any know practice any
924
00:44:04,394 --> 00:44:06,662
entity where they were mandated reporters
925
00:44:06,662 --> 00:44:09,146
of childhood sexual abuse and did not
926
00:44:09,146 --> 00:44:11,262
report it And those things keep a because
927
00:44:11,262 --> 00:44:12,622
they're not getting consequences and
928
00:44:12,622 --> 00:44:14,846
therefore evil continues to thrive And so
929
00:44:14,846 --> 00:44:18,334
when it comes to the church a denomination
930
00:44:18,334 --> 00:44:22,474
a network of churches and the SBC in
931
00:44:22,474 --> 00:44:24,018
particular it's beyond disappointing at
932
00:44:24,018 --> 00:44:26,066
this point It's to the point of actively
933
00:44:26,066 --> 00:44:27,634
It's beyond just not even neutral.It's
934
00:44:27,634 --> 00:44:29,940
actively going in and doing something in
935
00:44:29,940 --> 00:44:36,438
the legal space to stop justice from
936
00:44:36,438 --> 00:44:39,106
happening And when justice happens in
937
00:44:39,106 --> 00:44:41,430
sexual situation like abuse it's not about
938
00:44:41,430 --> 00:44:44,534
getting a bunch of money No matter what
939
00:44:44,534 --> 00:44:49,674
people might say that these girls or women
940
00:44:49,674 --> 00:44:52,346
are greedy and they're out for the money
941
00:44:52,346 --> 00:44:56,422
very few people end up getting wealthy off
942
00:44:56,422 --> 00:44:59,194
of a situation like this because lawyers
943
00:44:59,194 --> 00:45:02,714
get their fee and all this kind of thing
944
00:45:02,714 --> 00:45:05,806
Women who speak out and girls who speak
945
00:45:05,806 --> 00:45:08,894
out and even men and boys who speak out
946
00:45:08,894 --> 00:45:11,950
about their own abuse and are seeking
947
00:45:11,950 --> 00:45:14,478
justice in the legal system whether it's
948
00:45:14,478 --> 00:45:16,334
against about church or denomination or
949
00:45:16,334 --> 00:45:17,954
anything else or the police force are
950
00:45:17,954 --> 00:45:20,386
doing so very often because they are
951
00:45:20,386 --> 00:45:22,066
haunted by the fact that if they don't do
952
00:45:22,066 --> 00:45:24,146
something legally to stop this it will
953
00:45:24,146 --> 00:45:26,206
happen again to someone else and they
954
00:45:26,206 --> 00:45:28,434
don't want someone else to live through
955
00:45:28,434 --> 00:45:30,374
what they've had to barely survive through
956
00:45:30,374 --> 00:45:32,454
and that they are victim survivors of And
957
00:45:32,454 --> 00:45:34,886
so for about church and abuse denomination
958
00:45:34,886 --> 00:45:37,378
to sort of pass the buck or even in this a
959
00:45:37,378 --> 00:45:39,606
actively be keeping an amicus brief in
960
00:45:39,606 --> 00:45:43,882
place I don't are what the excuses are
961
00:45:43,882 --> 00:45:45,626
whether someone was busy or whatever but
962
00:45:45,626 --> 00:45:47,962
the leaders who have the power to make the
963
00:45:47,962 --> 00:45:49,322
change there really are no excuses.And
964
00:45:49,322 --> 00:45:50,826
it's time to stop with the hempathy
965
00:45:50,826 --> 00:45:51,966
because that's something we discussed in
966
00:45:51,966 --> 00:45:55,166
the previous episode with Johnna here and
967
00:45:55,166 --> 00:45:58,874
it's time to start looking at the facts a
968
00:45:58,874 --> 00:46:01,278
working together for justice If there's
969
00:46:01,278 --> 00:46:04,982
any verse that I could point us to today
970
00:46:04,982 --> 00:46:09,090
we need to do justice love mercy and walk
971
00:46:09,090 --> 00:46:11,554
humbly with God And do justice requires us
972
00:46:11,554 --> 00:46:13,906
being active together And so Johnna is
973
00:46:13,906 --> 00:46:15,378
calling as one option that could be
974
00:46:15,378 --> 00:46:17,646
something you want to consider today This
975
00:46:17,646 --> 00:46:21,618
feels a little bit like an altar call
976
00:46:21,618 --> 00:46:22,914
that's this point discussed just the
977
00:46:22,914 --> 00:46:25,254
defund the SBC movement if you feel.And
978
00:46:25,254 --> 00:46:27,334
that could look looking very specific ways
979
00:46:27,334 --> 00:46:30,426
like you just saying I'm not going to fund
980
00:46:30,426 --> 00:46:33,306
the liars related to thwarting abuse for
981
00:46:33,306 --> 00:46:35,514
survivors of abuse that you want your
982
00:46:35,514 --> 00:46:36,954
funding to your offerings to be
983
00:46:36,954 --> 00:46:39,418
specifically given to specific things and
984
00:46:39,418 --> 00:46:43,706
you want there to be more transparency And
985
00:46:43,706 --> 00:46:46,046
you want to talk to you pastor or you want
986
00:46:46,046 --> 00:46:47,822
to say I'm not going to fund If the at
987
00:46:47,822 --> 00:46:51,034
program funds are going to go toward
988
00:46:51,034 --> 00:46:53,714
largely lawyer fees for this thing you
989
00:46:53,714 --> 00:46:56,274
want to know the numbers like show me the
990
00:46:56,274 --> 00:46:59,262
numbers So asking for that transparency of
991
00:46:59,262 --> 00:47:03,362
where the money goes before you're giving
992
00:47:03,362 --> 00:47:06,030
and you're offering is want very
993
00:47:06,030 --> 00:47:07,554
reasonable thing And it's responsible.It's
994
00:47:07,554 --> 00:47:10,066
be specifically good steward of the money
995
00:47:10,066 --> 00:47:12,518
God has blessed us with that we work hard
996
00:47:12,518 --> 00:47:14,358
for of course in your jobs But when we
997
00:47:14,358 --> 00:47:16,630
give whether it's a tithe the 10 or the we
998
00:47:16,630 --> 00:47:20,034
go above and beyond or whether we're in
999
00:47:20,034 --> 00:47:21,978
lawyer financial place where we can't get
1000
00:47:21,978 --> 00:47:23,354
that much whatever you're giving and
1001
00:47:23,354 --> 00:47:25,194
you're offering to your church especially
1002
00:47:25,194 --> 00:47:27,558
if you're listening to this in the SBC
1003
00:47:27,558 --> 00:47:29,974
right now I just want you to consider
1004
00:47:29,974 --> 00:47:32,986
asking where the money goes and expecting
1005
00:47:32,986 --> 00:47:35,822
a about where it goes And if you are or
1006
00:47:35,822 --> 00:47:37,694
not comfortable for that money to go
1007
00:47:37,694 --> 00:47:40,206
toward lawyers that are stopping that are
1008
00:47:40,206 --> 00:47:42,206
defending whether SPC with sort of these
1009
00:47:42,206 --> 00:47:43,354
image management things that happen to
1010
00:47:43,354 --> 00:47:44,926
protect men in powerful positions in their
1011
00:47:44,926 --> 00:47:46,002
jobs or entities that are long standing
1012
00:47:46,002 --> 00:47:47,426
whatever the expense of children little
1013
00:47:47,426 --> 00:47:49,906
girls who are getting abused by a to in a
1014
00:47:49,906 --> 00:47:53,186
church that are just trying to not only
1015
00:47:53,186 --> 00:47:56,486
say that person deserves justice this
1016
00:47:56,486 --> 00:48:00,534
child who is now grown and able to speak
1017
00:48:00,534 --> 00:48:02,966
for themselves but also that that would
1018
00:48:02,966 --> 00:48:06,498
happen to no one else Because we are
1019
00:48:06,498 --> 00:48:09,638
showing that we have a no tolerance policy
1020
00:48:09,638 --> 00:48:13,002
of abuse in our churches And this is just
1021
00:48:13,002 --> 00:48:14,566
what we're asking you to consider.And
1022
00:48:14,566 --> 00:48:16,694
Johnna is specifically asking people to
1023
00:48:16,694 --> 00:48:18,906
consider at that looks like to be involved
1024
00:48:18,906 --> 00:48:20,378
in the defund the SBC movement And then
1025
00:48:20,378 --> 00:48:23,102
there are also other ways to get know By
1026
00:48:23,102 --> 00:48:27,070
sending letters emails making phone calls
1027
00:48:27,070 --> 00:48:28,574
asking to speak with leaders in this
1028
00:48:28,574 --> 00:48:30,334
denomination who are making policies And
1029
00:48:30,334 --> 00:48:32,046
then just to read up and listen to the
1030
00:48:32,046 --> 00:48:33,518
abuse survivors themselves and to center
1031
00:48:33,518 --> 00:48:35,738
them I would say is really important
1032
00:48:35,738 --> 00:48:37,758
Follow people on Twitter or on their
1033
00:48:37,758 --> 00:48:39,634
social media or people that are writing
1034
00:48:39,634 --> 00:48:43,122
articles in baptist press and different
1035
00:48:43,122 --> 00:48:44,338
things about their own abuse and follow
1036
00:48:44,338 --> 00:48:46,422
the abuse survivors and the stories that
1037
00:48:46,422 --> 00:48:47,414
they're sharing themselves.So you're going
1038
00:48:47,414 --> 00:48:51,714
straight to the original firsthand source
1039
00:48:51,714 --> 00:48:55,494
the original source to find out what
1040
00:48:55,494 --> 00:48:59,030
happened And I in that when you hear the
1041
00:48:59,030 --> 00:49:01,530
stories this is why Johnna and I believe
1042
00:49:01,530 --> 00:49:03,418
so strongly that stories matter Then
1043
00:49:03,418 --> 00:49:04,906
you'll understand why this matters that
1044
00:49:04,906 --> 00:49:08,266
you wouldn't want this to happen to anyone
1045
00:49:08,266 --> 00:49:09,898
else So I encourage you to follow the
1046
00:49:09,898 --> 00:49:12,362
abuse survivors in the SBC that are out
1047
00:49:12,362 --> 00:49:14,062
there sharing their stories In the
1048
00:49:14,062 --> 00:49:17,182
meantime I know many of you are end of the
1049
00:49:17,182 --> 00:49:18,346
year making New Year's
1050
00:49:18,346 --> 00:49:21,514
resolutions.Wouldn't it be great to have a
1051
00:49:21,514 --> 00:49:23,646
New Year's resolution that you were going
1052
00:49:23,646 --> 00:49:25,274
to actually do justice this next year love
1053
00:49:25,274 --> 00:49:26,866
mercy and walk humbly with God and make
1054
00:49:26,866 --> 00:49:29,086
goals around those things and doing
1055
00:49:29,086 --> 00:49:31,426
justice I just think we could all do more
1056
00:49:31,426 --> 00:49:32,926
And it's not like anyone guilt trip but
1057
00:49:32,926 --> 00:49:35,378
it's like what's one thing you could do
1058
00:49:35,378 --> 00:49:37,182
next year to kind of move the needle
1059
00:49:37,182 --> 00:49:39,186
forward in your circle of influence
1060
00:49:39,186 --> 00:49:41,206
doesn't have to be big or small but just
1061
00:49:41,206 --> 00:49:43,286
to be involved to just not be passive
1062
00:49:43,286 --> 00:49:44,646
about it It's not something that only
1063
00:49:44,646 --> 00:49:46,738
church leaders and only denomination
1064
00:49:46,738 --> 00:49:49,734
leaders are involved in Doing justice is
1065
00:49:49,734 --> 00:49:52,282
part of what it means to follow God.And if
1066
00:49:52,282 --> 00:49:55,226
you consider yourself a follower of God I
1067
00:49:55,226 --> 00:49:58,346
would just invite you to consider what
1068
00:49:58,346 --> 00:50:00,634
that looks like for you to do justice and
1069
00:50:00,634 --> 00:50:02,046
your circle of influence and in your
1070
00:50:02,046 --> 00:50:03,838
spaces that you call your home your
1071
00:50:03,838 --> 00:50:06,238
denominational home your church home And
1072
00:50:06,238 --> 00:50:09,034
if you'd like to talk more about that or
1073
00:50:09,034 --> 00:50:15,774
if you want to share your ideas and tips
1074
00:50:15,774 --> 00:50:18,718
of what you're doing we are going to be
1075
00:50:18,718 --> 00:50:20,706
going are little bit deeper with Johnnana
1076
00:50:20,706 --> 00:50:22,338
in a Patreon episode So if you have not
1077
00:50:22,338 --> 00:50:24,126
joined our difference maker community
1078
00:50:24,126 --> 00:50:26,338
that's where we go a little bit deeper
1079
00:50:26,338 --> 00:50:27,966
with each of our guests So we have another
1080
00:50:27,966 --> 00:50:30,226
exclusive interview with Johnnana where we
1081
00:50:30,226 --> 00:50:33,334
go more in depth with her about some of
1082
00:50:33,334 --> 00:50:35,510
the things she's experienced and what
1083
00:50:35,510 --> 00:50:37,014
she's working on with advocacy So please
1084
00:50:37,014 --> 00:50:37,958
join us there at ww dot patreon.com
1085
00:50:37,958 --> 00:50:38,578
aworldofdifference.That's ww dot
1086
00:50:38,578 --> 00:50:39,426
patreon.com aworldofdifference and join us
1087
00:50:39,426 --> 00:50:43,306
there You can join for as little as 5 a
1088
00:50:43,306 --> 00:50:45,174
month and you'll get exclusive episodes
1089
00:50:45,174 --> 00:50:47,066
from many different guests There's have
1090
00:50:47,066 --> 00:50:48,986
ton of content in there exclusively for
1091
00:50:48,986 --> 00:50:50,346
you When you show up You could join for
1092
00:50:50,346 --> 00:50:52,978
just one month and see how you like it or
1093
00:50:52,978 --> 00:50:55,694
you can join for longer because it's hard
1094
00:50:55,694 --> 00:50:57,198
to watch all of the content in one
1095
00:50:57,198 --> 00:51:00,142
month.It's what lot of stuff and we keep
1096
00:51:00,142 --> 00:51:05,434
adding more with each guest So we'd love
1097
00:51:05,434 --> 00:51:11,474
to have you show up there and have
1098
00:51:11,474 --> 00:51:12,386
conversations with us about how you're
1099
00:51:12,386 --> 00:51:15,118
making a difference and we'd love for
1100
00:51:15,118 --> 00:51:18,418
you'll to reach out about what kind of a
1101
00:51:18,418 --> 00:51:20,306
difference you're hoping to make in the
1102
00:51:20,306 --> 00:51:21,638
next year in you spaces where you live and
1103
00:51:21,638 --> 00:51:23,494
work and play and have influence of any
1104
00:51:23,494 --> 00:51:25,506
kind And whether you are a follower of God
1105
00:51:25,506 --> 00:51:26,358
and you express that through Christianity
1106
00:51:26,358 --> 00:51:27,926
or Judaism or Islam you consider yourself
1107
00:51:27,926 --> 00:51:29,654
hindu or buddhist or an atheist you are
1108
00:51:29,654 --> 00:51:31,606
welcome to join us in that space and add
1109
00:51:31,606 --> 00:51:32,654
your perspective as well even
1110
00:51:32,654 --> 00:51:33,498
conversations this very christian
1111
00:51:33,498 --> 00:51:35,466
conversation around advocacy a spiritual
1112
00:51:35,466 --> 00:51:36,794
abuse in the SBC Because just all the
1113
00:51:36,794 --> 00:51:38,874
brains we could get a the table on this
1114
00:51:38,874 --> 00:51:41,266
one and all the perspectives really matter
1115
00:51:41,266 --> 00:51:42,862
and they really make and difference And
1116
00:51:42,862 --> 00:51:47,102
they help us see because we know that
1117
00:51:47,102 --> 00:51:49,470
spiritual abuse happens in all different
1118
00:51:49,470 --> 00:51:51,210
religious spaces.And even from those of
1119
00:51:51,210 --> 00:51:54,610
you who are atheists we would love
1120
00:51:54,610 --> 00:51:56,718
yourself perspective on what that looks
1121
00:51:56,718 --> 00:51:59,122
like from your point of view us all of
1122
00:51:59,122 --> 00:52:01,474
your points of view are places where I
1123
00:52:01,474 --> 00:52:05,406
learn and spaces where I learn And I
1124
00:52:05,406 --> 00:52:08,418
really enjoy in you here So as we end out
1125
00:52:08,418 --> 00:52:10,086
this year I just want to say thank you to
1126
00:52:10,086 --> 00:52:11,654
all the listeners who've been so
1127
00:52:11,654 --> 00:52:12,726
incredible and making such a difference
1128
00:52:12,726 --> 00:52:15,186
around the world So I hope you take some
1129
00:52:15,186 --> 00:52:19,094
space to just kind of think through this
1130
00:52:19,094 --> 00:52:21,046
year What do you want to stop What do you
1131
00:52:21,046 --> 00:52:23,574
want to start What do you want to keep
1132
00:52:23,574 --> 00:52:25,206
doing And I'd love to hear more about that
1133
00:52:25,206 --> 00:52:27,286
So find me on Twitter at Loriadbr and let
1134
00:52:27,286 --> 00:52:29,766
me know Or if you want to find me on
1135
00:52:29,766 --> 00:52:30,926
threads at Lori Adams Brown.Yeah just
1136
00:52:30,926 --> 00:52:32,046
reach out to me there I'd love to hear
1137
00:52:32,046 --> 00:52:35,246
kind of what you're doing in the end of
1138
00:52:35,246 --> 00:52:36,926
the a difference taking time to reflect if
1139
00:52:36,926 --> 00:52:38,078
you're taking take retreat how that looks
1140
00:52:38,078 --> 00:52:39,918
for you And in the meantime take care of
1141
00:52:39,918 --> 00:52:40,846
yourself and please keep making a
1142
00:52:40,846 --> 00:52:41,998
difference wherever you are close
1143
00:52:41,998 --> 00:52:43,294
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1144
00:52:43,294 --> 00:52:44,238
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1145
00:52:44,238 --> 00:52:44,974
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1146
00:52:44,974 --> 00:52:45,726
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1147
00:52:45,726 --> 00:52:47,358
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1148
00:52:47,358 --> 00:52:47,966
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1149
00:52:47,966 --> 00:52:48,318
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1150
00:52:48,318 --> 00:52:49,066
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1151
00:52:49,066 --> 00:52:50,666
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1152
00:52:50,666 --> 00:52:51,886
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00:52:52,458 --> 00:52:52,958
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1155
00:52:52,958 --> 00:52:53,902
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1156
00:52:53,902 --> 00:52:54,558
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1157
00:52:54,558 --> 00:52:55,334
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1158
00:52:55,334 --> 00:52:56,406
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1159
00:52:56,406 --> 00:52:57,618
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1160
00:52:57,618 --> 00:52:58,566
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1161
00:52:58,566 --> 00:52:59,558
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1162
00:52:59,558 --> 00:53:01,286
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1163
00:53:01,286 --> 00:53:03,174
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1164
00:53:03,174 --> 00:53:04,434
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