Transcript
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You welcome to the A World of Difference
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podcast. I'm Lori Adams Brown, and this is
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a podcast for those who are different and
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want to make a difference. Today on the
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show, we have someone coming to us
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straight from Israel. Her name is Lemore
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Bergman Gross. And for over 20 years, she
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worked as an engineer, manager and
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director of engineering and Tech IT. Now.
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She spent the past five years to dedicate
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her life to mentoring women in tech. And
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she has a strong passion around helping
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women to get to the C suite. She has a lot
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of tools and strategies and tips for
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people based on her experience of working
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in tech and working up the career ladder,
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as well as being a mom during that time.
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And so we're going to talk today about
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what it was like to work in tech and how
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she can help women to rise in their
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careers if that's what they desire to do.
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She has a lot of great information and
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work around just career development,
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specifically as it relates to the tech
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world. But a lot of her strategies are
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helpful in all types of careers. And also,
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it's a really helpful conversation to have
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with someone like this because I know
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there are many male allies that listen to
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this podcast. So if you're a manager or
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you work in a faith based space or you
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work in a nonprofit, you're going to get
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something out of this podcast today. So,
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yeah, happy to introduce you if you've not
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yet heard of her. So welcome to the show
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Today, Lemore Bergman Griff hello,
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Leymore. And thanks for coming onto the
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show today all the way from Israel. How
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are you doing today, Leymore hi, Lori.
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Thank you so much for having me. I'm doing
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great. It's a wonderful evening here. Yes,
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well, it's an early morning for me, and
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I'm glad that we got our time zones to
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connect and we could make this time work
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and really excited to get to know you a
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little bit better and allow you to bring
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your differences to the table today to
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make a difference in our lives. Those of
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us listening love to learn, and we love
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bringing on thought leaders, subject
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matter experts, and people who bring their
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differences to the table to help us grow.
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And so today, I'd love for you just to
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start off with the introduction of who is
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Lemore Bergman growth and how would you
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describe yourself to our audience? So I'll
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give you kind of a mission statement, I
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think, that will describe me the most. I'm
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on a mission to bring more women to the C
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suite in tech. I do that by mentoring,
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coaching, and supporting women in
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different roles. And I bring all my
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experience, all my years of experience in
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tech. I mean, I was an engineer, a
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software engineer, and grew into
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leadership roles both here in Israel and
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in the US. So that's kind of what I do.
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I'm trying to make my own difference in
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the world. Absolutely. That's why you're
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on the show today. And I love that. And we
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definitely need more female
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representation. And there are so many
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factors that are out of women's control.
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But the things we can control are what we
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also want to talk about today, as well as
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maybe give some tips to our male allies
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that want to be a part of helping make a
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difference, too. And so as we dig into
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this a little bit, tell us a little bit
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about your career journey. You worked in
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tech, you've lived in the US for a period
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of time. You were in the Denver area. You
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were also in Plano, in Texas for a while,
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and now you're back in Israel. Tell us a
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little bit about your career and why you
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came to this mission statement. Sure. So
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started my career as a software engineer,
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so I went into computer science in
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university because I thought that would
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make sense given my STem background and
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started my career in Israel. At some
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point, realized I wanted to become a
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manager. I have four children, and back
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then, when I wanted to become a manager, I
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was actually pregnant with my second child
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and nominated myself to a manager position
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and basically got my first manager
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position when I got back from maternity
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leave of my second son. So my big changes
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in my career actually happened related to
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new kids. So my first engineering
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management position was after I had a
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second child, and our move to the US was
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after I delivered my twins. So I have four
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kids. The young ones are twins, and when
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they're babies, we move the entire family,
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all the six of us, to the US, to Denver,
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Colorado in the winter of 2010. It was
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kind of driven by my husband. His employer
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really wanted him to move. And we realized
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that it's an opportunity to do something
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else. I mean, I don't know if I was crazy
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or what, but I decided that it's an
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opportunity and I had to figure out if I
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want to take it or not. And I decided to
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take this opportunity despite all the
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difficulties and the unknowns. So moving
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to the US had to reinvent myself,
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basically. I mean, I continued my career,
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but it wasn't so easy because I was on a
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visa that employers, many employers,
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didn't know what to do with it, and
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obviously what was a new country for me.
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And, yeah, and I continue on that journey
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in the US, and we moved also in Denver,
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and we moved to Texas. And along the way,
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I found out several things. I found out
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that I'm driven by supporting other
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managers. So I started mentoring as a
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volunteer at the beginning of 2017. I
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loved it. I loved it. I got a lot of
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positive feedback that also with my
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growing passion to having more women, I
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mean, as I grew in my leadership roles, I
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saw fewer and fewer women there and fewer
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role models. A lot of times I didn't have
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any role models to look up to. Maybe
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someone from HR, but like no executive
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female at realized, I really want to
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change that. And when we decided to move
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back to Israel, I decided that was my
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opportunity because we made a huge change.
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As it is, we moved back. I had to leave my
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job. I said, okay, that's my sign, that's
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my cue that I have to make this change.
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Love your story. I know are going to
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resonate with our audience because we have
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a lot of people who've moved abroad and
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moved multiple times to multiple countries
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for various reasons, for being expats, for
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just immigration, and also because of
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unrest in certain places where that was a
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forced situation as well. And I have
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twins, by the wAy, and I also moved. My
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twins were born in 2007, and we moved in
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2009 from Indonesia to Singapore for a
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career move as well. And so I can somewhat
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relate to, and they're my youngest, too.
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So it is challenging. When I think about
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women getting to the C suite. I know that
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you've probably faced this, too. There's
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so much performance, so much, so many
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stereotypes. I don't know if you face that
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in the US or what your perspective was.
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And then also how that looks in Israel,
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which is know every culture and how
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cultures perceive women is really unique
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to that culture. And then at the same
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time, anywhere where there's sort of this
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patriarchy, there's some similarities. So
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do you feel like you were facing any sort
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of performance bias for yourself or that
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you saw other women facing, especially
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around the time of having. Absolutely. And
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I think that I saw that both in Israel and
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the US. And obviously it's a huge
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generalization. It depends on the company,
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it depends on the manager and the leaders.
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I mean, it varies, right? I cannot just
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generalize a country, but yes, I've seen
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that. Actually, when I was pregnant with
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my second child, I was miserable at on.
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Even before that, I was put on something
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that I really didn't want to do. I
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traveled quite a bit when I had my first.
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She was a baby, and I traveled from Israel
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to California one month and to Japan one
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month to do something I hated and I wasn't
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even good at. I was just used as a pond in
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someone else's toolbox, and I didn't feel
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like I had the support I needed. By the
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way, women not always support other women,
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unfortunately. So the manager above my
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manager was a woman, and I didn't feel she
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supported me as well. I don't hold grudges
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and all that, and I'm not victimizing, but
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I'm just saying, yes, there are biases to
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make a difference. We need to rise above
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those biases and see where we can make an
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impact and what kind of choices we have.
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So in my example back then, I had a
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choice. I could stay or I could leave, but
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I wanted to have another child. That was
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one of the conflicts that I had. Like have
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a child, not have a child. Right. You
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mentioned about being a mom. That's one of
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the challenges that we face as women, that
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when we want to expand the families, then
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we have to weigh in also the career
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progression, and how is that going to
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impact our careers? Unfortunately, it
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shouldn't be that way, but it is. I chose
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expanding my family. The interesting thing
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is that as I was pregnant, this
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opportunity for engineering manager came
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up, and eventually I actually benefited
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from it, but I didn't know that that way.
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So I guess that there are biases, but we
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have a lot of power to overcome them.
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Thank you for sharing that part of your
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story. I know that many people listening,
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whether they are women and they've
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considered having children, already have,
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or they're a man married to a woman who's
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also wanted to expand their family and
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have watched their wife have to go through
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some of these complicated decisions. It
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can be really challenging. Or even some
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people listening might be managers, and
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they're also trying to figure out how to
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not have any sort of performance bias
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against the women that maybe directly
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report to them. So all of these things
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that we're talking about are super
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helpful. When you think about getting
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women to the C suite, what is your
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perspective on some of the biggest
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obstacles to overcome? So there are
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obstacles that are internal to those
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women, and there are obstacles that are
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external. The internal ones are just
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having a sense of a, this is feasible for
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me. I can see myself sitting at that
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table. I'm confident in my ability. I'm
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worth it. I deserve it. I have a seat at
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that table. My voice matters. I have a
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unique voice. I'm different, but it's a
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good thing. So those are all the internal
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things that women. A lot of times, I mean,
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I had that too, right? We understand that
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we are different. We don't see role
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models, we don't see anyone else. And then
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we start kind of doubting ourselves
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whether we actually belong there, whether
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we are capable and so forth. The external
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thing Is the biases, right? Those that are
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sitting there already, whether they see us
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as worthy, whether they see us as someone
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that can provide value, although we are
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different, although we bring something
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else, because we are different, because we
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are not part of the boys Club, because we
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are unique. And a lot of times, and again,
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I'm not saying anything that they are
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doing it from bad intentions, but a lot of
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times. And this is why I am a huge
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proponent of diversity, related not just
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to gender. When everyone is alike and
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everyone think the same, there is a basic
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hesitation to bring anyone that is
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different. I had it, I'll give an example
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like I had in one of the companies, people
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that brought, you know how it is, refer a
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friend program. It's a great thing. But
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what happened was that there were a lot of
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referrals of people who worked at the same
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team. And then what it created like an
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internal club, closed club, of those
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people who came from the same company. So
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this is kind of the problem that it's like
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a closed circle. Yeah, I've seen that
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happen in more than one situation. It is
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the truth that most people get hired in a
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situation where they know someone. That's
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just statistically true. And there's a lot
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of reasons for that. On the recruiting
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side, it is a risk every time a recruiter
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brings someone new into a company that
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doesn't know someone there, because people
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can present themselves very well on paper.
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They may even have good references. Their
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LinkedIn may look incredible and they may
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say all these things, but then, every now
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and then you get someone that it wasn't a
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good fit and you couldn't tell because
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they didn't know someone. And so there is
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that side. I know that people on the
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recruiting side, and I've been on that
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side in these interviews before, it always
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helps to know you can trust this person
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when somebody inside says, I know them.
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However, the downside is that you get a
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group think with people who are so
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similar, and groupthink really inhibits
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innovation. And in tech that's huge. We
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have to have the ability to innovate.
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That's exactly how these companies grow.
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Another question related to this. You have
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worked in tech for so long, and we've
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recently had here in Silicon Valley, quite
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a few tech layoffs because of what's been
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going on in the last year or so. And so
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there's a lot of people looking for new
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roles. And today, speaking of LinkedIn,
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there really is a piece of it that knowing
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how to present yourself on LinkedIn can be
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quite hard. And I think specifically, men
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and women are often socialized really
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differently around this. Self promotion is
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really so much more fraught for women in a
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lot of cases where it decreases likability
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factor for them if they look ambitious or
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present themselves. And yet there are ways
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to do it that can maybe minimize some of
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that. And you mentioned that you also
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offered yourself up for a manager
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position. So what advice would you give to
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women and men who are trying to promote
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themselves for a new role and how to do
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that in a way that's going to make it a
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little easier on the likability for women,
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if there is such a thing? Yeah. So first
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of all, when you are on the look for a new
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role, you have to get into the head of the
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recruiter, the hiring manager. What are
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they looking for? First of all, so do your
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research. I always recommend people I work
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with on LinkedIn. Like for example, do
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your research. Look at different job
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descriptions, see what kind of qualities
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they are looking for. We tend to think
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inwards about ourselves. What do I want?
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What have I done? No, first of all, start
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with the opposite. Think, what do they
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want? What are they looking for? What do
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they value? Then ask yourself, where do I
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fit in? What kind of skills and qualities
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I have that are super valuable for what
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they're looking for. And highlight those.
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Make sure that you speak in the language
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that they want to hear, that basically you
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address what they are looking for. You
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solve their problems. That's the biggest
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tip I have. And overall, like LinkedIn
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branding, that's a marathon. That's not
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like one thing that you do when you look
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for a job. It something I started doing
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when I moved to the US. I had a LinkedIn
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profile, like a bare minimum, and I
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started nurturing that. And I do that
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still. Now it's more focused on my
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business. But that was a long haul that I
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continued investing in, and it bear
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fruits. I got all the time inbound request
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from recruiters and hiring managers. And
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even if you think that now is the worst
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time, a lot of people lost their job.
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Still, some companies are still hiring.
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They're looking for some people in some
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skill set. So there is always a need,
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there is always an opportunity. Think that
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the mindset of basically that there is
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always abundance, there is always
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something out there for everyone is very
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important. Otherwise you sink into
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negativity and there's nothing for me, and
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that's not helpful. Yeah, it's so true.
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And there is so much psychology around
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being laid off or fired from a job for
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people who've walked through that, that
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are listening, you know what I'm talking
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about. But it's a grief process. People
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walk through a lot of shock, especially
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when it was so unexpected. And then often
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the goodbyes can be complicated because
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sometimes the need to get out of the
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office quickly happens. So picking oneself
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up from that shock and grief experience
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and the psychology around all of that,
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while having to be somebody who's
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promoting themselves to want to get hired
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somewhere else, it can be a very difficult
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mental health journey for a lot of people.
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Do you have any advice for people as they
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walk through that and how? Were there any
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things that have been helpful that you
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have seen along the way? Yeah, it's very
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difficult. It's not easy. First of all,
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griefing is okay, right? I mean, it's not
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easy. It's a crisis. A lot of times it's
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the biggest cris people face in their
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00:19:11,402 --> 00:19:14,674
lifetime. Right. Losing a job. First of
403
00:19:14,674 --> 00:19:16,866
all, surround yourself with supportive.
404
00:19:16,866 --> 00:19:19,378
With supportive people, friends, family,
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anyone that is supportive. Stay away from
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people that maybe bring negativity.
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Because sometimes it can be that your best
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friends or the people that you hang out
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with the most, well, they may not be the
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best people to hang around when you are
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down, because some people are just
412
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sarcastic, maybe they bring this negative
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mindset. So just be aware of that. The
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00:19:46,010 --> 00:19:49,642
second thing is that volunteering can help
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you, although it sounds kind of weird, but
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that can help you actually build your
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confidence. So think about, okay, I gained
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a lot of skills. Who can I help? Like, for
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example, when I started mentoring, you
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cannot believe the amount of confidence I
421
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got out of it. Just giving back to
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someone, sharing my expertise, getting the
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feedback, went long ways to my confidence.
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So think about mentoring. Think about,
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okay, with all the knowledge that I gained
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and who can I help? If you help someone
427
00:20:24,214 --> 00:20:26,502
else, it boosts your confidence. You're
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doing something. You're actually
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00:20:28,274 --> 00:20:29,786
identifying your skills. It helps you kind
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of sharpen what kind of skills I have, and
431
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maybe those people eventually can connect
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it to some other people. Something good
433
00:20:37,306 --> 00:20:42,830
will come out of that. Yeah, I love that
434
00:20:42,830 --> 00:20:45,978
perspective. We can't control the
435
00:20:45,978 --> 00:20:49,070
curveballs that life gives us, but we can
436
00:20:49,070 --> 00:20:52,186
control how we respond. Right. And
437
00:20:52,186 --> 00:20:55,370
sticking to what we know, being able to be
438
00:20:55,370 --> 00:20:56,946
moldable and surrounding ourselves with
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00:20:56,946 --> 00:20:58,594
good, supportive people, I think that's
440
00:20:58,594 --> 00:21:02,018
really good advice. And considering so
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00:21:02,018 --> 00:21:04,642
many companies, you said, like you said,
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some have laid people off, but some are
443
00:21:06,686 --> 00:21:10,054
hiring right now. And so a lot of people
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are having this experience over the last
445
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few years, especially a lot of remote
446
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employees. And I know that especially for
447
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:22,106
women we see over and over again. McKinsey
448
00:21:22,106 --> 00:21:25,354
and company just last month released their
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state of women in the workforce research
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that they do every year. And one of the
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things that continually comes up,
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particularly for women in the workforce,
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is how important the ability to work
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remotely or hybrid is for women in
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particular, because of all the reasons
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where women often are doing the second
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shift of the unpaid labor at home, either
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exclusively or the majority of iT. And so
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that's why remote work allows them to stay
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in the workforce in ways that they
461
00:21:57,374 --> 00:21:59,574
otherwise would not be able to. But
462
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companies onboarding new remote employees,
463
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that can be challenging. So what advice do
464
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you have for companies that are doing the
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onboarding process mostly remotely right
466
00:22:09,820 --> 00:22:14,074
now? Yeah. So I worked remote since 2016,
467
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way before the pandemic. I think that it
468
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starts with a mindset. When you work with
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remote people, you have to be investing
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more time in processes like structure,
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more structure, and in being deliberate
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about building relationships and trust. So
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first of all, have a well defined
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onboarding process, company wide, and then
475
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department wide, and then team wide. Well
476
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defined, well documented. I'm not a
477
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process kind of fanatic. I'm not a process
478
00:22:49,154 --> 00:22:53,078
oriented person. But when I worked remote,
479
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I really made a huge effort in defining
480
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onboarding and made a list of, okay,
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someone starting, who is their buddy, who
482
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is kind of accompanying them, who do they
483
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need to meet in their first week? Who do
484
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they need to meet in their second week?
485
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Even I set up meetings for those people. I
486
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thought that needed that extra kind of
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help facilitating that define 30, 60, 90
488
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day plan and what success. So be
489
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deliberate about setting even more than
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when you work in an office. Because when
491
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you work in an office, you have more than
492
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informal interactions. You have to invest
493
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more time in setting the expectations, in
494
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building the onboarding process and then
495
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checking in with people deliberately.
496
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Again, you don't have the opportunity to
497
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see them in the coffee break or getting to
498
00:23:47,186 --> 00:23:49,106
lunch. So you have to be deliberate about
499
00:23:49,106 --> 00:23:51,974
it, checking in, maybe reaching out in
500
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slack, maybe setting up some time. I was
501
00:23:55,702 --> 00:23:57,706
fanatic with one on ones, and believe me,
502
00:23:57,706 --> 00:24:01,510
when you manage engineers, they don't like
503
00:24:01,510 --> 00:24:03,722
meetings, even more so than managers.
504
00:24:03,722 --> 00:24:05,694
Right? And I said, why do I need to meet
505
00:24:05,694 --> 00:24:08,494
with you? And I said, well, you need to
506
00:24:08,494 --> 00:24:10,986
meet with me because I want to see how
507
00:24:10,986 --> 00:24:14,590
you're doing. Even if we just spend five
508
00:24:14,590 --> 00:24:16,626
minutes, you tell me everything is fine,
509
00:24:16,626 --> 00:24:19,294
and then we say bye until next week,
510
00:24:19,294 --> 00:24:22,498
that's fine. That kind of force, that kind
511
00:24:22,498 --> 00:24:25,506
of thing. Because sometimes things come up
512
00:24:25,506 --> 00:24:29,746
and if you don't have that meeting, I will
513
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not be aware of that. I don't know what
514
00:24:32,046 --> 00:24:33,654
someone is going through if I don't see
515
00:24:33,654 --> 00:24:35,298
them, if I don't see their face, if I
516
00:24:35,298 --> 00:24:37,462
don't see like maybe they're going through
517
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something in life. I have no ability to
518
00:24:40,406 --> 00:24:43,180
see that when they are not next to me.
519
00:24:43,180 --> 00:24:47,306
Yeah, so good. Really helpful. Because I
520
00:24:47,306 --> 00:24:49,098
think the onboarding experience, we have
521
00:24:49,098 --> 00:24:50,954
all this research to show, like how you
522
00:24:50,954 --> 00:24:52,858
start people off, it really sets the tone
523
00:24:52,858 --> 00:24:54,666
for how they're going to feel about the
524
00:24:54,666 --> 00:24:57,086
company going forward. And you really get
525
00:24:57,086 --> 00:24:58,942
one chance to do that well, and it's not
526
00:24:58,942 --> 00:25:00,606
easy, it's very time consuming. But I
527
00:25:00,606 --> 00:25:02,046
think that hitting the highlights, like
528
00:25:02,046 --> 00:25:03,854
you mentioned, are really important. And
529
00:25:03,854 --> 00:25:07,374
having those open communications too
530
00:25:07,374 --> 00:25:08,658
remote teams, like you mentioned, you have
531
00:25:08,658 --> 00:25:10,674
to work a lot on building relationships
532
00:25:10,674 --> 00:25:13,474
and building trust. Any tips around that
533
00:25:13,474 --> 00:25:17,166
for people who may be know, we have global
534
00:25:17,166 --> 00:25:19,282
workforce know? So you might have somebody
535
00:25:19,282 --> 00:25:23,346
living here in California and they know
536
00:25:23,346 --> 00:25:25,046
interactions with a remote team in China
537
00:25:25,046 --> 00:25:28,434
or Taiwan. And so they're not only
538
00:25:28,434 --> 00:25:31,862
opposite time zones, but also cultural
539
00:25:31,862 --> 00:25:34,346
communication is so different. One might
540
00:25:34,346 --> 00:25:36,154
be more of a direct communicator, one
541
00:25:36,154 --> 00:25:39,110
might be more of a high context
542
00:25:39,110 --> 00:25:41,722
communication. There's so many nuances
543
00:25:41,722 --> 00:25:43,626
there. Any tips on how to build
544
00:25:43,626 --> 00:25:45,306
relationships and trust with these remote
545
00:25:45,306 --> 00:25:49,914
global teams? Absolutely. So obviously,
546
00:25:49,914 --> 00:25:52,094
it's much, much more challenging when you
547
00:25:52,094 --> 00:25:54,926
work with people from a totally different
548
00:25:54,926 --> 00:25:58,100
culture. You have to first of all,
549
00:25:58,100 --> 00:26:02,466
understand that they are different. So you
550
00:26:02,466 --> 00:26:06,478
need to start getting to know them,
551
00:26:06,478 --> 00:26:09,010
understanding their motivations,
552
00:26:09,010 --> 00:26:11,206
understanding how they like to work, how
553
00:26:11,206 --> 00:26:12,966
they like to communicate. What do they
554
00:26:12,966 --> 00:26:14,646
need from you? And in order to know that,
555
00:26:14,646 --> 00:26:16,840
you need to ask. There is no way you can
556
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,534
guess asking what are they expecting from
557
00:26:20,534 --> 00:26:22,550
you? What do they need from you as their
558
00:26:22,550 --> 00:26:24,346
manager? What is important to them, what
559
00:26:24,346 --> 00:26:27,546
are their goals? What kind of environment
560
00:26:27,546 --> 00:26:30,634
do they need to succeed? So just asking. I
561
00:26:30,634 --> 00:26:33,434
mean, sometimes people are, especially in
562
00:26:33,434 --> 00:26:36,574
cultures that are not very open. They may
563
00:26:36,574 --> 00:26:38,846
not elaborate if you will not ask. So you
564
00:26:38,846 --> 00:26:43,774
need to be a great at asking questions and
565
00:26:43,774 --> 00:26:47,078
be curious instead of making assumptions.
566
00:26:47,078 --> 00:26:50,718
Adopt curiosity over judgment and
567
00:26:50,718 --> 00:26:53,186
assumptions, because we judge people when
568
00:26:53,186 --> 00:26:56,114
we look from our own lenses and someone
569
00:26:56,114 --> 00:26:58,462
that may operate on a completely different
570
00:26:58,462 --> 00:26:59,814
operating system, right? I mean, they have
571
00:26:59,814 --> 00:27:02,134
their own values and the way they operate
572
00:27:02,134 --> 00:27:04,194
is totally different. And then we make
573
00:27:04,194 --> 00:27:06,310
assumptions and we judge them. So be
574
00:27:06,310 --> 00:27:11,330
curious. Really good. I love that the
575
00:27:11,330 --> 00:27:13,386
curiosity is what leads to knowledge. And
576
00:27:13,386 --> 00:27:15,286
if we don't have that curiosity, then we
577
00:27:15,286 --> 00:27:18,106
don't know. And knowing people and knowing
578
00:27:18,106 --> 00:27:20,266
them deeply and knowing them well is a way
579
00:27:20,266 --> 00:27:23,018
to build trust and doing what we say we're
580
00:27:23,018 --> 00:27:25,886
going to do and doing our best with each
581
00:27:25,886 --> 00:27:29,434
other. And I do really appreciate that
582
00:27:29,434 --> 00:27:30,606
perspective because it is so true. I've
583
00:27:30,606 --> 00:27:33,114
found it to be true again and again.
584
00:27:33,114 --> 00:27:36,386
Communication is really key there. Some
585
00:27:36,386 --> 00:27:38,578
people struggle, especially remotely when
586
00:27:38,578 --> 00:27:41,726
it comes to sort of delegating. And as
587
00:27:41,726 --> 00:27:44,226
leaders and managers and organizations
588
00:27:44,226 --> 00:27:45,650
where there's a lot on our plate,
589
00:27:45,650 --> 00:27:47,426
sometimes you feel like there's much more
590
00:27:47,426 --> 00:27:48,966
than you can accomplish in a given week
591
00:27:48,966 --> 00:27:50,966
because some of these companies that some
592
00:27:50,966 --> 00:27:53,926
of us work for just move fast and there's
593
00:27:53,926 --> 00:27:58,246
a lot expected of us. And yet delegation
594
00:27:58,246 --> 00:28:00,486
can be a really big challenge for a lot of
595
00:28:00,486 --> 00:28:02,922
managers and leaders. Do you have any tips
596
00:28:02,922 --> 00:28:07,500
about that for people? Yeah, absolutely.
597
00:28:07,500 --> 00:28:11,434
So it's an acquired skill. First of all, I
598
00:28:11,434 --> 00:28:15,466
think that you need to ask yourself, what
599
00:28:15,466 --> 00:28:17,982
are the things that I do that makes the
600
00:28:17,982 --> 00:28:20,606
most impact? So looking at all the things
601
00:28:20,606 --> 00:28:22,990
that you do, first of all, and assessing
602
00:28:22,990 --> 00:28:25,006
impact, the things that you do that maybe
603
00:28:25,006 --> 00:28:28,194
are not making the most impact, thinking,
604
00:28:28,194 --> 00:28:30,850
okay, who is maybe a better fit to do
605
00:28:30,850 --> 00:28:32,802
them? Maybe it's someone from your team,
606
00:28:32,802 --> 00:28:35,282
maybe someone else. I don't know. The
607
00:28:35,282 --> 00:28:38,594
other way to look about it is if I
608
00:28:38,594 --> 00:28:41,218
delegate something to someone. Maybe
609
00:28:41,218 --> 00:28:43,218
that's not like, for example, when
610
00:28:43,218 --> 00:28:45,670
engineers grow to be managers, it's very
611
00:28:45,670 --> 00:28:48,614
difficult for them to let go of technical
612
00:28:48,614 --> 00:28:51,394
stuff that they used to do, maybe taking
613
00:28:51,394 --> 00:28:53,866
architecture decisions, making. But then
614
00:28:53,866 --> 00:28:55,962
you need to ask yourself, is it the best
615
00:28:55,962 --> 00:28:58,774
use of our time? Because maybe I'm a great
616
00:28:58,774 --> 00:29:00,698
technical engineer, but now I'm a manager,
617
00:29:00,698 --> 00:29:03,150
so I have other things to worry about. And
618
00:29:03,150 --> 00:29:07,194
maybe I'm most effective in nurturing my
619
00:29:07,194 --> 00:29:09,326
teams, helping them grow, building
620
00:29:09,326 --> 00:29:11,102
relationship with product, I don't know,
621
00:29:11,102 --> 00:29:14,298
whatever the case may be. And then if I
622
00:29:14,298 --> 00:29:16,606
delegate those technical stuff to someone
623
00:29:16,606 --> 00:29:19,282
in my team, that's another way to help
624
00:29:19,282 --> 00:29:21,874
them grow. So it's not just that I free up
625
00:29:21,874 --> 00:29:24,862
my time to think that I can make a greater
626
00:29:24,862 --> 00:29:28,166
impact, but also I free up my time to help
627
00:29:28,166 --> 00:29:33,298
someone else progress in their careers.
628
00:29:33,298 --> 00:29:35,974
It's a great perspective. Yeah. When we
629
00:29:35,974 --> 00:29:39,046
can let things go a little bit, it is a
630
00:29:39,046 --> 00:29:41,750
way to develop leaders, and that's hard. I
631
00:29:41,750 --> 00:29:44,202
think you and I are both parents, and it's
632
00:29:44,202 --> 00:29:45,562
something that parents have to walk
633
00:29:45,562 --> 00:29:48,886
through. So I always feel sad when I see
634
00:29:48,886 --> 00:29:51,174
organizations that are so biased against
635
00:29:51,174 --> 00:29:53,206
moms or a lot of this narrative that says
636
00:29:53,206 --> 00:29:55,838
moms are lazy or not capable at work. And
637
00:29:55,838 --> 00:29:57,466
I just think, why wouldn't you want to
638
00:29:57,466 --> 00:29:59,662
hire moms? Most moms I know are great
639
00:29:59,662 --> 00:30:01,166
project managers at home. They're having
640
00:30:01,166 --> 00:30:04,154
to learn to delegate, to raise little
641
00:30:04,154 --> 00:30:07,114
humans into adults and help them leave the
642
00:30:07,114 --> 00:30:09,730
nest one day. I mean, this is a years long
643
00:30:09,730 --> 00:30:11,186
process that moms are having to make sure
644
00:30:11,186 --> 00:30:12,958
the catering is done at home, whether
645
00:30:12,958 --> 00:30:15,394
they're cooking it or outsourcing it,
646
00:30:15,394 --> 00:30:17,218
making sure supplies are always stocked in
647
00:30:17,218 --> 00:30:19,842
the warehouse, aka the cabinets and the
648
00:30:19,842 --> 00:30:21,766
pantry. Right. We have a lot of skills
649
00:30:21,766 --> 00:30:25,218
that we bring, but it does require
650
00:30:25,218 --> 00:30:27,366
delegation as a parent. And so we see that
651
00:30:27,366 --> 00:30:30,018
in managers too. It can be hard to. You
652
00:30:30,018 --> 00:30:32,070
don't think as a parent your kid is quite
653
00:30:32,070 --> 00:30:33,866
ready sometimes, but you test it out a
654
00:30:33,866 --> 00:30:35,974
little bit. Right? And the same with
655
00:30:35,974 --> 00:30:37,322
managers. Maybe you're not sure if
656
00:30:37,322 --> 00:30:39,286
somebody that directly reports to you
657
00:30:39,286 --> 00:30:41,446
feels 100% ready for that task, but you
658
00:30:41,446 --> 00:30:43,934
walk alongside, you do this model assist,
659
00:30:43,934 --> 00:30:45,918
watch and leave kind of process that a lot
660
00:30:45,918 --> 00:30:49,454
of us use. Right? Yeah. And sometimes
661
00:30:49,454 --> 00:30:52,000
people just have to restructure things
662
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:56,366
too. I'm thinking right now, you're
663
00:30:56,366 --> 00:30:58,562
talking about being an engineer, and the
664
00:30:58,562 --> 00:31:00,462
company I work in, we have a lot of
665
00:31:00,462 --> 00:31:03,118
engineers as well. And my oldest son is
666
00:31:03,118 --> 00:31:05,620
studying to be an engineer and so familiar
667
00:31:05,620 --> 00:31:08,806
with that sort of way of thinking and that
668
00:31:08,806 --> 00:31:11,938
way of working. I think in a lot of
669
00:31:11,938 --> 00:31:15,414
engineering situations, not exclusively by
670
00:31:15,414 --> 00:31:17,366
any means, but you tend to get a lot more
671
00:31:17,366 --> 00:31:20,086
sort of introverts in a role like that.
672
00:31:20,086 --> 00:31:21,674
And so if you have somebody who's a little
673
00:31:21,674 --> 00:31:24,986
more introverted, and then they're needing
674
00:31:24,986 --> 00:31:27,482
to grow into a manager role or even learn
675
00:31:27,482 --> 00:31:29,914
to network, do you have any tips for
676
00:31:29,914 --> 00:31:31,838
people that are on the introverted side
677
00:31:31,838 --> 00:31:33,678
that are having to sort of build these
678
00:31:33,678 --> 00:31:36,366
relationship skills? I know, it's so
679
00:31:36,366 --> 00:31:42,174
difficult. I'm an introvert myself. I
680
00:31:42,174 --> 00:31:46,142
think that the best way would be to see
681
00:31:46,142 --> 00:31:48,466
what areas you're passionate about and how
682
00:31:48,466 --> 00:31:50,530
can you help others. That's a great first
683
00:31:50,530 --> 00:31:53,570
step, right? To build kind of to network,
684
00:31:53,570 --> 00:31:56,378
help other people speak on an area that
685
00:31:56,378 --> 00:31:58,514
you're passionate about. Even the most
686
00:31:58,514 --> 00:32:03,106
introverted persons, and I've managed very
687
00:32:03,106 --> 00:32:06,390
introverted engineers, when you find
688
00:32:06,390 --> 00:32:08,150
something that they are very passionate
689
00:32:08,150 --> 00:32:10,154
about, they can talk all day long about
690
00:32:10,154 --> 00:32:12,934
it. So find those areas where you're
691
00:32:12,934 --> 00:32:15,002
passionate, where you're interested, and
692
00:32:15,002 --> 00:32:16,790
find opportunities to share that
693
00:32:16,790 --> 00:32:19,718
knowledge, and it can be with just one
694
00:32:19,718 --> 00:32:22,634
individuals maybe in some group setup,
695
00:32:22,634 --> 00:32:25,850
maybe eventually, maybe at a conference.
696
00:32:25,850 --> 00:32:28,334
Conferences are great ways to get out of
697
00:32:28,334 --> 00:32:30,766
your comfort zone. And I'll tell you, it
698
00:32:30,766 --> 00:32:32,682
was very difficult for me to go to
699
00:32:32,682 --> 00:32:34,626
conferences and network and all that. It
700
00:32:34,626 --> 00:32:38,174
was not easy, but I kind of deliberately
701
00:32:38,174 --> 00:32:41,406
decided to go there, despite my nature, to
702
00:32:41,406 --> 00:32:46,302
avoid those situations. So follow just the
703
00:32:46,302 --> 00:32:49,446
things that you feel like you are more
704
00:32:49,446 --> 00:32:53,042
easy to talk about. And also finding
705
00:32:53,042 --> 00:32:55,398
opportunities to collaborate with people.
706
00:32:55,398 --> 00:32:58,326
Like for example, hackathons are great
707
00:32:58,326 --> 00:33:00,774
ways to kind of get to know people, open
708
00:33:00,774 --> 00:33:02,890
source projects. So find those
709
00:33:02,890 --> 00:33:06,234
opportunities to meet people on areas that
710
00:33:06,234 --> 00:33:09,126
you feel super comfortable, super
711
00:33:09,126 --> 00:33:11,286
passionate about. That will make it just
712
00:33:11,286 --> 00:33:13,850
easier than just network with someone
713
00:33:13,850 --> 00:33:15,806
because we tend to think of networking.
714
00:33:15,806 --> 00:33:18,574
Oh, I just go and talk with someone about
715
00:33:18,574 --> 00:33:20,846
their life, right? Or talk about, I don't
716
00:33:20,846 --> 00:33:22,574
know what to talk about. So talk about
717
00:33:22,574 --> 00:33:25,682
things that you feel comfortable talking
718
00:33:25,682 --> 00:33:27,998
about. Be a geek and just talk about the
719
00:33:27,998 --> 00:33:31,554
techie stuff. Love that advice. That's
720
00:33:31,554 --> 00:33:35,634
really great advice. Yeah. I think that
721
00:33:35,634 --> 00:33:37,618
for most introverts that I know, chitchat
722
00:33:37,618 --> 00:33:40,066
can be really uncomfortable, but that is
723
00:33:40,066 --> 00:33:41,638
really good advice. Just geek out on what
724
00:33:41,638 --> 00:33:43,782
you know and talk about what you know, and
725
00:33:43,782 --> 00:33:45,014
somebody out there is going to love it
726
00:33:45,014 --> 00:33:46,662
too. And that's part of networking, which
727
00:33:46,662 --> 00:33:50,058
is really great. I want to talk about this
728
00:33:50,058 --> 00:33:55,370
a little bit. One of the challenges I hear
729
00:33:55,370 --> 00:33:57,766
about every now and then in the global
730
00:33:57,766 --> 00:34:00,426
leadership and development work I do here
731
00:34:00,426 --> 00:34:03,094
is sometimes people who are managers, they
732
00:34:03,094 --> 00:34:05,840
have a direct report and they're seeing
733
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,606
some performance issues, and maybe they
734
00:34:08,606 --> 00:34:10,346
don't even know why. It's just that
735
00:34:10,346 --> 00:34:12,906
there's deadlines that are being missed or
736
00:34:12,906 --> 00:34:16,706
there's work that's not being done up to
737
00:34:16,706 --> 00:34:20,078
the expectation. Various types of
738
00:34:20,078 --> 00:34:23,778
performance issues that may be unknown as
739
00:34:23,778 --> 00:34:26,402
to what the reasons are with their team.
740
00:34:26,402 --> 00:34:28,342
What strategies do you recommend when
741
00:34:28,342 --> 00:34:30,246
somebody faces that on their team that
742
00:34:30,246 --> 00:34:32,470
they need to have a difficult conversation
743
00:34:32,470 --> 00:34:34,950
with? Yeah, and this is extremely
744
00:34:34,950 --> 00:34:37,650
difficult for all managers, especially new
745
00:34:37,650 --> 00:34:41,654
managers. Always difficult to have those
746
00:34:41,654 --> 00:34:44,374
uncomfortable conversations. My first
747
00:34:44,374 --> 00:34:47,162
advice would be sticking with facts,
748
00:34:47,162 --> 00:34:51,222
trying to be less emotional about it and
749
00:34:51,222 --> 00:34:56,330
less opinionated. So try to avoid
750
00:34:56,330 --> 00:35:00,234
sentences that start with I think, I feel.
751
00:35:00,234 --> 00:35:06,882
Replace them with I observed, I saw. So
752
00:35:06,882 --> 00:35:10,594
use data, use observation. Use things that
753
00:35:10,594 --> 00:35:14,686
are neutral. Right? I mean, it's not an
754
00:35:14,686 --> 00:35:18,422
opinion, it's not a feeling, it's data.
755
00:35:18,422 --> 00:35:20,502
Then be curious. As I said, curiosity is
756
00:35:20,502 --> 00:35:23,378
number one. You start with sharing
757
00:35:23,378 --> 00:35:27,254
observations. I observe that every time
758
00:35:27,254 --> 00:35:32,394
you estimate something, it takes you twice
759
00:35:32,394 --> 00:35:35,722
as much. I'm just making something up.
760
00:35:35,722 --> 00:35:41,338
Right. I observe that when you submit a PR
761
00:35:41,338 --> 00:35:43,646
there are always a lot of comments from
762
00:35:43,646 --> 00:35:48,138
your peers. I observe that you get, I
763
00:35:48,138 --> 00:35:50,974
don't know, whatever amount of bugs on
764
00:35:50,974 --> 00:35:53,642
code that you submit or you get more
765
00:35:53,642 --> 00:35:58,482
whatever observations. Then give the space
766
00:35:58,482 --> 00:36:02,990
to respond. But be curious about listen.
767
00:36:02,990 --> 00:36:05,566
Practice active listening, not hearing.
768
00:36:05,566 --> 00:36:08,206
Active listening. Be curious to say, okay,
769
00:36:08,206 --> 00:36:10,518
I've said what I wanted to say. Now I'm
770
00:36:10,518 --> 00:36:13,654
going to fully listen to you and I want to
771
00:36:13,654 --> 00:36:15,986
hear what you have to say. What are your
772
00:36:15,986 --> 00:36:19,322
thoughts about it? What is your take? Hear
773
00:36:19,322 --> 00:36:24,106
them out. Sometimes they may not agree
774
00:36:24,106 --> 00:36:27,174
with you, but you have to be at least open
775
00:36:27,174 --> 00:36:29,980
minded to hearing out what they have to
776
00:36:29,980 --> 00:36:34,622
say and then make sure that expectations
777
00:36:34,622 --> 00:36:39,120
are clear. A lot of times the child start
778
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:42,074
with having different expectations or
779
00:36:42,074 --> 00:36:43,738
understanding of what is the role of what
780
00:36:43,738 --> 00:36:48,510
is expected from them and have those
781
00:36:48,510 --> 00:36:50,942
conversations about expectations from that
782
00:36:50,942 --> 00:36:53,650
role, from that individual. Maybe there's
783
00:36:53,650 --> 00:36:57,794
something not aligned there and agree on
784
00:36:57,794 --> 00:37:01,014
what's next. Ask them, what do you think?
785
00:37:01,014 --> 00:37:03,938
What do you propose? It's their
786
00:37:03,938 --> 00:37:05,586
responsibility as well. It's not just
787
00:37:05,586 --> 00:37:09,350
yours. As a manager, if they are not
788
00:37:09,350 --> 00:37:11,986
performing, they need to come up with
789
00:37:11,986 --> 00:37:13,978
solutions. They need to propose. What do
790
00:37:13,978 --> 00:37:15,770
you need for me? I mean, you're there to
791
00:37:15,770 --> 00:37:17,866
support them. What do you need for me?
792
00:37:17,866 --> 00:37:21,394
What is missing? But also what do you
793
00:37:21,394 --> 00:37:27,278
propose doing? Very good. Yeah, I love
794
00:37:27,278 --> 00:37:31,962
that. I think that good leadership at
795
00:37:31,962 --> 00:37:33,946
foundational level is the kind where
796
00:37:33,946 --> 00:37:37,938
listening to understand is right. And I do
797
00:37:37,938 --> 00:37:40,446
a lot of training on this and have
798
00:37:40,446 --> 00:37:41,646
recently done a couple of different
799
00:37:41,646 --> 00:37:43,826
leadership summits, both in our UK office
800
00:37:43,826 --> 00:37:47,602
as well as our office near Memphis. And
801
00:37:47,602 --> 00:37:49,478
every time I'm doing these listening to
802
00:37:49,478 --> 00:37:52,162
understand workshops with people, it's so
803
00:37:52,162 --> 00:37:54,006
impactful because good listening skills,
804
00:37:54,006 --> 00:37:55,634
where you're listening for facts and
805
00:37:55,634 --> 00:37:57,926
feelings and values, is a really deeper
806
00:37:57,926 --> 00:38:00,214
kind of listening than just hearing.
807
00:38:00,214 --> 00:38:02,122
Right? Especially in our distracted world
808
00:38:02,122 --> 00:38:04,954
of fast paced but deep listening is
809
00:38:04,954 --> 00:38:06,854
something we have to work on. And as
810
00:38:06,854 --> 00:38:09,274
leaders and managers in particular,
811
00:38:09,274 --> 00:38:11,754
because of the power dynamic that exists
812
00:38:11,754 --> 00:38:13,514
there, that if we're not listening, we
813
00:38:13,514 --> 00:38:15,730
have blind spots. Blind spots are
814
00:38:15,730 --> 00:38:18,398
dangerous. We could run over people. And
815
00:38:18,398 --> 00:38:21,166
one of the things I really appreciate in
816
00:38:21,166 --> 00:38:23,214
the work that I do, I partner with the
817
00:38:23,214 --> 00:38:26,174
center for Creative Leadership and am
818
00:38:26,174 --> 00:38:28,306
using their curriculum in the company
819
00:38:28,306 --> 00:38:30,498
where I work to help us train on their
820
00:38:30,498 --> 00:38:33,358
research based methods. But one of their
821
00:38:33,358 --> 00:38:35,634
models for feedback in these situations or
822
00:38:35,634 --> 00:38:38,418
any situation is to do what they call SBI.
823
00:38:38,418 --> 00:38:40,440
It's a lot of what you just. Said,
824
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:44,946
situation. Behavior, impact. And then you
825
00:38:44,946 --> 00:38:46,742
pause and ask for the intent, like you
826
00:38:46,742 --> 00:38:48,774
said, and you stay really curious. You
827
00:38:48,774 --> 00:38:50,374
say, this is the situation. You're not
828
00:38:50,374 --> 00:38:52,790
using feelings, you're just using the
829
00:38:52,790 --> 00:38:54,314
data, what you observe, right. And then
830
00:38:54,314 --> 00:38:56,586
their behavior and then how that impacted
831
00:38:56,586 --> 00:38:58,106
you, and then you pause and you ask for
832
00:38:58,106 --> 00:39:00,586
their intent. And it's been really great
833
00:39:00,586 --> 00:39:03,686
to see how people using that, myself
834
00:39:03,686 --> 00:39:06,142
included. It's really a great way to have
835
00:39:06,142 --> 00:39:08,366
that difficult conversation, which we have
836
00:39:08,366 --> 00:39:11,742
to have a lot as managers and leaders. So
837
00:39:11,742 --> 00:39:13,146
love what you had to say and very
838
00:39:13,146 --> 00:39:14,706
consistent with what I found to be helpful
839
00:39:14,706 --> 00:39:18,594
as well. I'd love to hear if you have any
840
00:39:18,594 --> 00:39:24,050
sort of story that is impactful from your
841
00:39:24,050 --> 00:39:29,474
career that made you who you are as a
842
00:39:29,474 --> 00:39:31,574
leader. Was there any particular person
843
00:39:31,574 --> 00:39:33,926
that influenced you? Was there any
844
00:39:33,926 --> 00:39:36,374
particular situation that kind of gave you
845
00:39:36,374 --> 00:39:38,486
the values that you have to want to invest
846
00:39:38,486 --> 00:39:41,366
in others and make a difference? Any story
847
00:39:41,366 --> 00:39:43,098
that kind of formed you to make you kind
848
00:39:43,098 --> 00:39:45,466
of the leader that you are? I don't know
849
00:39:45,466 --> 00:39:47,786
if I can point to one story. I think it
850
00:39:47,786 --> 00:39:52,714
was a journey, but I remember that the
851
00:39:52,714 --> 00:39:56,142
managers that inspired me even when I
852
00:39:56,142 --> 00:39:59,118
started out, and I couldn't even see
853
00:39:59,118 --> 00:40:02,378
myself there, I was so much at the
854
00:40:02,378 --> 00:40:04,366
beginning. I saw those managers and said,
855
00:40:04,366 --> 00:40:07,666
I want to become this. So a lot of times,
856
00:40:07,666 --> 00:40:10,306
just identifying someone and say, I want
857
00:40:10,306 --> 00:40:12,962
to be like that. And what I appreciated,
858
00:40:12,962 --> 00:40:15,182
and those are my core values, I
859
00:40:15,182 --> 00:40:19,766
appreciated people who were humble, who
860
00:40:19,766 --> 00:40:23,702
were compassionate and empathetic, who
861
00:40:23,702 --> 00:40:27,510
wanted to help me grow, always listened,
862
00:40:27,510 --> 00:40:30,662
and always kind of treated people with
863
00:40:30,662 --> 00:40:35,914
respect and every person differently. I
864
00:40:35,914 --> 00:40:38,602
had a manager that we had a team, a global
865
00:40:38,602 --> 00:40:40,886
team. I was still relatively at the
866
00:40:40,886 --> 00:40:44,254
beginning of my career. And that manager,
867
00:40:44,254 --> 00:40:48,462
I was totally inspired and amazed how he
868
00:40:48,462 --> 00:40:51,934
was able to conduct a meeting with people
869
00:40:51,934 --> 00:40:55,282
from so many different countries and be
870
00:40:55,282 --> 00:40:58,190
able to motivate everyone and kind of
871
00:40:58,190 --> 00:41:00,354
gather everyone together. And I remember
872
00:41:00,354 --> 00:41:05,474
that I thought, I want to become like him.
873
00:41:05,474 --> 00:41:08,454
It took me some years to eventually get
874
00:41:08,454 --> 00:41:12,402
there, but I think that having someone who
875
00:41:12,402 --> 00:41:15,778
inspire you, that you can see yourself
876
00:41:15,778 --> 00:41:17,590
role models are really important. That's
877
00:41:17,590 --> 00:41:19,702
why. One of the reasons why I think that
878
00:41:19,702 --> 00:41:23,154
women have problems getting up to the
879
00:41:23,154 --> 00:41:25,766
exact roles they don't see women role
880
00:41:25,766 --> 00:41:28,038
models. So you really need to relate to a
881
00:41:28,038 --> 00:41:31,210
role model to see, this is what I want to
882
00:41:31,210 --> 00:41:33,194
be again, it's not a copy, it's not a
883
00:41:33,194 --> 00:41:36,720
clone, but someone to aspire to become.
884
00:41:36,720 --> 00:41:41,370
Like. So true. It's been true in my
885
00:41:41,370 --> 00:41:43,690
career, in life as well. I did work in an
886
00:41:43,690 --> 00:41:46,174
organization that had no women in the
887
00:41:46,174 --> 00:41:50,094
executive level or even the senior
888
00:41:50,094 --> 00:41:52,066
management level for a long time. And it
889
00:41:52,066 --> 00:41:54,594
does impact you because you need to see
890
00:41:54,594 --> 00:41:56,626
your person, at least one, obviously more
891
00:41:56,626 --> 00:41:58,946
than one, is helpful. But so many women
892
00:41:58,946 --> 00:42:00,446
are really the ones breaking the glass
893
00:42:00,446 --> 00:42:01,666
ceiling, blazing the trail. And we need
894
00:42:01,666 --> 00:42:03,446
male allies to come along and support us
895
00:42:03,446 --> 00:42:06,006
and be aware that we haven't had the wind
896
00:42:06,006 --> 00:42:08,294
at our back. And it does affect us and it
897
00:42:08,294 --> 00:42:10,034
does affect the bias we all have,
898
00:42:10,034 --> 00:42:11,386
ourselves included. Sometimes, like you
899
00:42:11,386 --> 00:42:13,914
said, it's women also making it harder on
900
00:42:13,914 --> 00:42:17,146
other women. It's not just men, right? All
901
00:42:17,146 --> 00:42:19,818
of us have the ability to open doors for
902
00:42:19,818 --> 00:42:22,054
people, make things easier or make it
903
00:42:22,054 --> 00:42:23,386
harder. So thank you for your insights
904
00:42:23,386 --> 00:42:25,070
today. I really appreciate your
905
00:42:25,070 --> 00:42:28,126
perspective. We are going to let you hang
906
00:42:28,126 --> 00:42:29,758
out with our Patreon supporters, and I'm
907
00:42:29,758 --> 00:42:32,446
going to ask you another question related
908
00:42:32,446 --> 00:42:34,254
to just living in Israel during a time
909
00:42:34,254 --> 00:42:35,982
when the world is watching everything
910
00:42:35,982 --> 00:42:37,434
happening there. I just want to get your
911
00:42:37,434 --> 00:42:40,754
perspective on that as somebody who's from
912
00:42:40,754 --> 00:42:42,194
there and living there and just want to
913
00:42:42,194 --> 00:42:44,318
hear your thoughts about the situation. So
914
00:42:44,318 --> 00:42:45,886
we'll let you do that with our Patreon
915
00:42:45,886 --> 00:42:47,874
supporters. But for now, thank you for
916
00:42:47,874 --> 00:42:50,014
being on the podcast today. Thank you for
917
00:42:50,014 --> 00:42:51,818
sharing your perspective and your
918
00:42:51,818 --> 00:42:53,222
insights, for making a difference in the
919
00:42:53,222 --> 00:42:55,462
ways that you are. And I do hope that your
920
00:42:55,462 --> 00:42:57,462
work produces the fruit you're looking
921
00:42:57,462 --> 00:42:59,186
for, where women are getting to the C
922
00:42:59,186 --> 00:43:00,706
suite to be those kind of leaders that
923
00:43:00,706 --> 00:43:03,402
you're dreaming of and inspiring them to.
924
00:43:03,402 --> 00:43:05,466
Thanks for being on today. Lee Moore,
925
00:43:05,466 --> 00:43:07,418
thank you so much for having me. It's been
926
00:43:07,418 --> 00:43:10,314
a true pleasure speaking with you today.
927
00:43:10,314 --> 00:43:14,438
You too. I hope you enjoyed that
928
00:43:14,438 --> 00:43:16,106
conversation as much as I did. I learned
929
00:43:16,106 --> 00:43:19,406
so much from Leymore, and she hangs around
930
00:43:19,406 --> 00:43:21,774
and talks to us in our Patreon group
931
00:43:21,774 --> 00:43:23,406
called difference Makers. So if you've not
932
00:43:23,406 --> 00:43:25,118
yet joined that community, this would be
933
00:43:25,118 --> 00:43:27,118
the day to do so because I ask her about
934
00:43:27,118 --> 00:43:30,066
what it's like to be living in Israel
935
00:43:30,066 --> 00:43:31,438
during the midst of all this conflict
936
00:43:31,438 --> 00:43:33,342
that's going on. And she gives us her
937
00:43:33,342 --> 00:43:35,346
perspective on what that's like and gives
938
00:43:35,346 --> 00:43:37,374
a very strong appeal for her own
939
00:43:37,374 --> 00:43:39,870
perspective on how we can be helpful. So I
940
00:43:39,870 --> 00:43:41,414
know many of you are trying to figure out
941
00:43:41,414 --> 00:43:42,966
ways you can be helpful in this situation.
942
00:43:42,966 --> 00:43:44,294
And just hearing her perspective was
943
00:43:44,294 --> 00:43:48,182
really great. And just also, it's always
944
00:43:48,182 --> 00:43:51,042
good to think through if that's something
945
00:43:51,042 --> 00:43:53,106
that's triggering for you in any way. So
946
00:43:53,106 --> 00:43:54,618
trigger warning if you've been in part of
947
00:43:54,618 --> 00:43:57,210
a conflict zone or currently are in one,
948
00:43:57,210 --> 00:43:58,794
because some of the things she talks about
949
00:43:58,794 --> 00:44:00,634
might be a little bit triggering. But do
950
00:44:00,634 --> 00:44:02,254
stop by on the difference maker
951
00:44:02,254 --> 00:44:04,910
Community@patreon.com. A world of
952
00:44:04,910 --> 00:44:07,966
difference to check it out. And as always,
953
00:44:07,966 --> 00:44:11,998
this podcast episode is sponsored by
954
00:44:11,998 --> 00:44:14,734
BetterHelp.com difference. And I have very
955
00:44:14,734 --> 00:44:16,494
much benefited from working with a
956
00:44:16,494 --> 00:44:17,854
therapist there and all the different
957
00:44:17,854 --> 00:44:21,854
tools of how to get ourselves through
958
00:44:21,854 --> 00:44:24,594
traumatic situations. Speaking of trauma,
959
00:44:24,594 --> 00:44:26,174
but if you've been in a traumatic
960
00:44:26,174 --> 00:44:28,306
workplace or you've had relationships that
961
00:44:28,306 --> 00:44:31,266
have been traumatic for you, or you are
962
00:44:31,266 --> 00:44:32,566
walking through anything right now that
963
00:44:32,566 --> 00:44:34,306
you just feel like you need some
964
00:44:34,306 --> 00:44:36,326
professional help, I really encourage you
965
00:44:36,326 --> 00:44:41,254
to go to WW dot betterhelp.com difference
966
00:44:41,254 --> 00:44:44,474
and get 10% off your first month. It's
967
00:44:44,474 --> 00:44:46,602
once again been so helpful for me and so I
968
00:44:46,602 --> 00:44:48,858
recommend it to you. So yeah, check them
969
00:44:48,858 --> 00:44:52,540
out and you can also find classes and
970
00:44:52,540 --> 00:44:55,238
different places to go and to be into
971
00:44:55,238 --> 00:44:57,066
groups of people if that's going to be
972
00:44:57,066 --> 00:44:59,226
helpful for you. But also just one on one
973
00:44:59,226 --> 00:45:01,434
therapy and if you decide you want to
974
00:45:01,434 --> 00:45:03,390
switch, they make it really easy. Yeah, go
975
00:45:03,390 --> 00:45:06,546
to www.betterhelp.com difference today to
976
00:45:06,546 --> 00:45:09,042
get 10% off your first month. And as
977
00:45:09,042 --> 00:45:11,762
always, wherever you are around the world,
978
00:45:11,762 --> 00:45:14,194
stay safe. Especially if you're listening
979
00:45:14,194 --> 00:45:16,914
in from the conflict going on in the
980
00:45:16,914 --> 00:45:19,320
Middle east right now. I know it's very
981
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,022
difficult, all of you that are doing great
982
00:45:22,022 --> 00:45:24,390
work there and risking your lives to help
983
00:45:24,390 --> 00:45:27,622
others. And it's a situation we're all
984
00:45:27,622 --> 00:45:30,438
paying attention to and just grieved and
985
00:45:30,438 --> 00:45:32,810
heartbroken and hoping that peace can come
986
00:45:32,810 --> 00:45:36,186
soon in that area for everyone's sake and
987
00:45:36,186 --> 00:45:38,540
that people can live and flourish in that
988
00:45:38,540 --> 00:45:42,442
area simultaneously, side by side with all
989
00:45:42,442 --> 00:45:44,134
different diversity of thought and
990
00:45:44,134 --> 00:45:46,830
cultures and languages and faith
991
00:45:46,830 --> 00:45:49,086
expressions. So yeah, we are sending you
992
00:45:49,086 --> 00:45:51,166
so much love. If you're there and wherever
993
00:45:51,166 --> 00:45:52,894
you are in the world, I know many of you
994
00:45:52,894 --> 00:45:54,830
are doing incredible things to make a
995
00:45:54,830 --> 00:45:56,794
difference. So let us know how this
996
00:45:56,794 --> 00:45:58,894
episode resonated with you. If you work in
997
00:45:58,894 --> 00:46:01,806
Silicon Valley, in tech, if you live in
998
00:46:01,806 --> 00:46:03,022
anywhere in the world, if you're in
999
00:46:03,022 --> 00:46:04,690
Singapore listening to this and work in
1000
00:46:04,690 --> 00:46:07,026
tech or in any kind of corporate space and
1001
00:46:07,026 --> 00:46:09,794
you want to reach out to Lee Moore for
1002
00:46:09,794 --> 00:46:13,218
more tips, you can find her on LinkedIn
1003
00:46:13,218 --> 00:46:15,106
and a few other spaces and I'm going to
1004
00:46:15,106 --> 00:46:16,466
link all her information in the show notes
1005
00:46:16,466 --> 00:46:18,446
so you can make sure and find her anyway.
1006
00:46:18,446 --> 00:46:20,460
Wherever you are in world, keep making a