Transcript
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Welcome to the a World of Difference
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podcast. I'm Lori Adams Brown, and this is
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a podcast for those who are different and
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want to make a difference. This podcast is
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sponsored by Betterhelp. If you are a
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person who really wants to understand what
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your strengths are, maybe you're not going
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through anything huge in your life.
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Therapy is not just for those who are in
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crisis, although it's definitely for that.
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therapy is also also a where you're just
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stepping into your own skin figuring out
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who you are what it is you're offering to
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the world around us and how you're making
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the world a better place Betterhelp is
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here to help you with that and I have
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really benefited by deep work
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understanding myself a little bit better
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And I know many people have benefited from
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this resource and that's why I'm proud to
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say they are are sponsor of this podcast
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So if you are are person who could benefit
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from talking with a a about anything going
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on in your life I encourage you to to by
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at betterhelp And the link I'm offering
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you today will give you 10 off your first
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month.And so hopefully that'll make
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that'll difference in your purse and
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pocket and wallet and bank account So go
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to www.betterhelp.com to to get 10 off
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your first month of therapy That is
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www.betterhelp.com difference to get 10
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off your first month Today today on the
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podcast I'm just going to talk to you
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listeners all around the world Making a
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difference in all in of places in many
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different countries and in many different
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situations today might feel a little bit
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like a true crime podcast.That is not the
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genre of this podcast Although we do
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occasionally address issues that are
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related to ethical moral issues and even
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crimes And especially we've covered
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especially little bit of that in faith
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communities As far as leaders of faith
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communities that have done things that
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would be considered criminal but often
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criminal, addition to that just ethically
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and morally wrong But today I'm going
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today just delve a little bit into a
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Twitter thread a I posted last week that
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many of you found helpful and it resonated
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with many of you.I was on a work trip to a
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flying back through Chicago back to San
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Francisco and just waiting in line to get
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on the plane in Chicago and O'Hare which
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was and long line So I stood there and I
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was processing something that had happened
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This was on Friday but I was processing
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what had happened on Monday which is news
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that I had gotten that a pastor that I a
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known in my childhood had been involved in
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his faith community was arrested on 35
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counts of sexual assault So the Twitter
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thread I don't really mention that part
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and it's still very fresh and not really
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super ready to talk about all of it But if
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you follow me at all on x Twitter you'll
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see that sometimes I'm just sort of
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processing what I'm thinking and trying to
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process that out loud with many of you who
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are trying to make are difference in your
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communities to work for truth and
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transparency.Some of you are also
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whistleblowers of abuse that you've seen
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in your faith community or in a toxic
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workplace environment And so sometimes
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that has felt lonely for me And so I reach
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out through Twitter to those of you who
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are also processing that too as we have
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these discussions And it makes a
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difference for me when I hear a diversity
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of perspectives around this But really
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that was sort of me standing in line for a
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United Airways flight back to San
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Francisco and Chicago and just putting my
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thoughts down as I waited in line.And
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really what I was processing there was I
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had reached out to somebody from that
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congregation that I know I kept in touch
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with over the years and they gave what to
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me really felt like the response of
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somebody who had been probably groomed
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with that faith community for many years
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to stand by the pastor who's committed
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crimes and to basically center him in the
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entire conversation And I was left a voice
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message by this individual who is really
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just probably repeating what they've been
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hearing This is what person who wants to
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do good in the world who do a lot of good
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in the world for the community for that
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particular faith community but for their
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community at large And I think I just kind
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of once again was shocked by the fact that
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this community which had meant so much to
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me in my childhood would also fall to
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these toxic systems that just seem to be
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increasingly pervasive in our world today
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And pervasive I process that out loud I
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mean you'll even see that as I was
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tweeting it I got the numbers off because
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it was not polished.I'm human AI did not
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generate it So this was not something from
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Chat GPT It was literally just verbatim
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the things that were left on that voice
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message for me that I've heard over and
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over and over again both in the church
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where I experienced a lot of this type of
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abusive a not sexual that I experienced or
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that people I know on that staff
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experience but definitely the abuse of
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power the authoritarianism the sort of the
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pastor being like a dictator and really
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preying on particular a and grooming
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individuals to stand by the pastor no
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matter what comes out And the parallels
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and the situations between what I
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experienced and the now what I was hearing
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in this particular faith environment was
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well as what I've heard a lot of you
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express to me through social media and
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those of you who've reached out to me
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after I spoke out in the news when I went
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on the record about my particular
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story.And if you're not familiar with that
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feel free to check out episode 100 which
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is the beginning of the our story series
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where I share my story of what it was like
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to work in a faith environment with an
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abusive pastor who a was predatory in an
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ways by using really lot of these same
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tactics whether it's a sexual abuse or
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it's tactics, psychological or a or
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spiritual or financial a some of these
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tactics they remain the same and the
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patterns are they same as to how people
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are groomed around them to cover it up And
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that betrayal blindness is a really very
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real experience psychologically that we go
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through that I also went through And so
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there is a lot of compassion I have on
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those in this community that will remain
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unnamed for now But community is
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definitely remain pattern that I saw So
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I'm just going to sort of walk through
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some of those eleven things that I heard
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in that voice message which were very
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similar to things I've heard many people
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saying when they're covering up for
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situations like what we see going on at
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IHOP KC the International House of Prayer
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in Kansas City.Right now if you're not
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familiar with that the Heaven Bent podcast
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has been covering also you know different
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reporters like Julie Royce has been
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writing about it But it just seems like if
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you paid attention at all to last week's
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episode with Lance Ford I remember him
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saying in the interview we don't know when
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this releases what the pastor is going to
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experience this whole situation where it
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comes out they've been hiding something
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behind the curtain where they've been
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abusing people It could be curtain, the
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category of crimes or sometimes when it's
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just spiritual abuse it may not be
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criminal although sometimes spiritual is
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depending on the state where you live the
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country where you live and the nature of
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what that abuse was like But definitely
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when it's sexual assault that is a
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criminal act pretty much everywhere right
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So I remember Lance saying we don't know
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when this releases what other pastor is
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going to know caught and we're going
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pastor see people.So basically in light of
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last week's podcast being what it was with
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Lance in light of the news I got Monday
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before that podcast released on Wednesday
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about this particular case of the arrest
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of this pastor that I knew and had really
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great experiences with I mean that's just
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the nature of this right Is that these
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people that I now refer to as Preda
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pastors because predator pastor it was
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becoming such as common phrase that I
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ended up saying about way too many
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situations than anyone should know about
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personally But just the nature of the work
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that I did around the world for so long
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and so many pastors that I've worked with
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the majority by far are not in this
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category But I also know way too many who
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would be considered what I know refer too
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as predator pastors.I just combined the
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word to make it as even though there's
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nothing easy about this But the it thing
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that I just sort of wrote there on Twitter
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was predate pastors groom their
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congregations so when their abuse is
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exposed and pastors they are arrested for
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their crimes the congregation knows
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exactly what to say to control their
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narrative to silence the whistleblowers
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and rally behind the abusive pastor And I
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listed some things that I hear often and
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really what the sort of motive and
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ulterior message is behind it And that's
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the part that's hard to see because of the
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gaslighting because of the grooming the
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trauma bonding the love bombing the
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ingratiation all the mix of it all It all
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sounds good ingratiation, the surface but
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when you understand what's behind it it's
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a coercion in itself.So the first thing
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that I heard in this particular message
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from this individual once again who's not
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heard horrible person they are a great
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person doing great things but they seem to
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have been groomed in the system to protect
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the abuser the criminal instead of care
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for the victims And in that message never
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once was any of the victims mentioned and
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he was arrested for 34 acts In these
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situations often we have reason to believe
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there could be many more because many of
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them never really come to the surface In
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situations like this the first thing that
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was said is we are praying for the pastor
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No that doesn't seem bad in any way at
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all.But when you understand that what's
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happening in a case like this it really is
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centering the abuser and not the victims
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Why wasn't the first thing being said We
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are praying for the victims. We're
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bringing the meals We have said? meal
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train.We're paying for the therapy We're
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are letting them decide when with whom and
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how and if they even share their story
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we're just caring for them That should be
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number one Centering survivors should be
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number one But I just almost never hear it
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in these cases.So we are praying for the
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pastor just puts him right there smack in
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the middle of the institution protecting
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itself which is what happens I mean it's
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natural right as humans to do that The
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second one was that there are people out
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to get him And if you're not familiar with
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Darvo this is are Darvo tactic to make
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people think oh it's not him that's out to
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get people People are out to get him.So
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it's reversing the roles Right So Darvo is
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really the whole deny deny the abuse is
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happening deny anything's wrong accuse or
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attack the other person who's usually the
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victim survivor or whistleblower all the
269
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above And then they reverse other victim
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and offender So this whole there are
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people out to get him is a psychological
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tactic that is just very commonly used
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that people don't even know they're using
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it because it's just sort of the ocean
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everybody's swimming in in these cultures
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to make it where we have a lot of empathy
277
00:11:41,398 --> 00:11:46,254
what we call that empathy in a case where
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it's a man who's abusing for the abuser
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and to not have any a for the victim a
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you're not even mentioning the it's to
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make you believe basically he's a victim
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instead of the other way around The third
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one was the accuser is trying to use this
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to build the career Now I hear this a lot
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when the accuser either the victim
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00:12:03,794 --> 00:12:05,414
survivor or the whistleblower and
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sometimes that's the same or in other
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cases it might be the journalist or on it
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or it could be the lawyer in that person
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This phrase is what they use The third one
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the accuser is trying to use this to build
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their career.And it's a very easy sell
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when it's toward a woman because of the
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sexism the patriarchy that most of our
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cultures are swimming in It's toward a
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we've heard quite a bit And so it just
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matches When you have a narrative you've
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been told for heard long time your whole
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life potentially and you hear a narrative
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a similar It's a no brainer.It just
301
00:12:38,734 --> 00:12:41,038
matches So to think that this in this case
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00:12:41,038 --> 00:12:43,118
it was the lawyer that they were saying
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00:12:43,118 --> 00:12:45,886
this about that she's trying to use this,
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to build her career discounting the fact
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00:12:47,266 --> 00:12:48,926
that crimes had actually happened but that
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she's was using this to build her lawyer
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00:12:50,930 --> 00:12:53,954
career, and so making her out to be the
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00:12:53,954 --> 00:12:56,066
abuser Right Instead of him The next thing
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00:12:56,066 --> 00:12:59,078
that was said was God has forgiven the to
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once again this doesn't sound bad right
311
00:13:03,014 --> 00:13:05,218
It's a wonderful thing to hear but it also
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00:13:05,218 --> 00:13:08,146
really is implying that you should forgive
313
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forget and then go along with business as
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usual like the rest of us So a lot of
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grace that's supposed to be poured upon
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someone who's committed crimes against
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vulnerable people But really this is used
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00:13:19,180 --> 00:13:22,282
in grace way to imply well what's wrong
319
00:13:22,282 --> 00:13:26,974
with you That you're not forgiving as if
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00:13:26,974 --> 00:13:28,794
now you're the problem not the one who's
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actually committed these crimes.So the
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00:13:29,774 --> 00:13:32,286
next one that goes sort of along with it
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is God has big plans for the pastor Once
324
00:13:35,914 --> 00:13:38,226
again the centering of the Preda pastor in
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00:13:38,226 --> 00:13:39,554
this scenario to protect the institution
326
00:13:39,554 --> 00:13:41,746
is really key And the pastor. lot of
327
00:13:41,746 --> 00:13:44,386
grandiosity that gets thrown around I in
328
00:13:44,386 --> 00:13:46,754
in the aftermath of the abuse allegations
329
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In the wake of a of that I'll hear a lot
330
00:13:49,974 --> 00:13:51,606
of grandiosity along these lines.God has
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00:13:51,606 --> 00:13:54,358
big plans for the pastor It's meant to
332
00:13:54,358 --> 00:13:55,494
distract from the abuse and point you
333
00:13:55,494 --> 00:13:58,898
toward It's like a smoke and mirrors But
334
00:13:58,898 --> 00:14:00,770
don't keep looking at the abuse and the
335
00:14:00,770 --> 00:14:03,318
crimes Look over here at all of
336
00:14:03,318 --> 00:14:04,826
the.Sometimes they'll use the word fruit
337
00:14:04,826 --> 00:14:06,938
Get the fruit which often means the butts
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00:14:06,938 --> 00:14:09,338
and the seats the amount of people the
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00:14:09,338 --> 00:14:11,406
numbers of people that are being reached
340
00:14:11,406 --> 00:14:14,398
with the methods the size of the ministry
341
00:14:14,398 --> 00:14:16,846
in terms of numbers But if the fruit of
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00:14:16,846 --> 00:14:20,334
the outcome is abused individuals that's
343
00:14:20,334 --> 00:14:23,826
not something that's being thrown around
344
00:14:23,826 --> 00:14:27,426
We're supposed to sort of ignore that and
345
00:14:27,426 --> 00:14:32,114
focus on these the things in order to help
346
00:14:32,114 --> 00:14:35,538
us sort of look the other way Like maybe
347
00:14:35,538 --> 00:14:38,706
he's done these things but it's a bit of a
348
00:14:38,706 --> 00:14:40,934
in him as a toxic rock star.Like we kind
349
00:14:40,934 --> 00:14:44,086
of need him to keep this going This
350
00:14:44,086 --> 00:14:45,686
institution is founded by him or relies on
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00:14:45,686 --> 00:14:47,734
him a if they've been leading it for a
352
00:14:47,734 --> 00:14:50,658
while And it kind of gets you to look the
353
00:14:50,658 --> 00:14:52,518
other way who among us hasn't sinned That
354
00:14:52,518 --> 00:14:55,306
was the next one And so it's really
355
00:14:55,306 --> 00:14:56,186
downplaying the abuse and the crime to
356
00:14:56,186 --> 00:15:00,086
refer to sexual assault 35 counts of it as
357
00:15:00,086 --> 00:15:02,858
sin merely sin which it is.But it's not
358
00:15:02,858 --> 00:15:05,866
just that It's also a crime It really is
359
00:15:05,866 --> 00:15:09,680
downplaying and minimizing the abuse And
360
00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:13,818
it's a very strong tactic that works quite
361
00:15:13,818 --> 00:15:15,586
well The next one was we shouldn't judge
362
00:15:15,586 --> 00:15:18,306
another Darvo tactic to make it look like
363
00:15:18,306 --> 00:15:20,802
well you're the one judging so maybe
364
00:15:20,802 --> 00:15:23,486
you're the offender not me.The next one is
365
00:15:23,486 --> 00:15:26,194
we need to be unified And this is really
366
00:15:26,194 --> 00:15:28,306
sort of culty language that I often hear I
367
00:15:28,306 --> 00:15:31,038
experienced it quite a bit in the
368
00:15:31,038 --> 00:15:32,566
aftermath of what I went through at Echo
369
00:15:32,566 --> 00:15:34,262
church here in the Bay area It's basically
370
00:15:34,262 --> 00:15:35,926
a tactic that is used to unify not around
371
00:15:35,926 --> 00:15:38,006
the victim but to unify around the abuser
372
00:15:38,006 --> 00:15:39,500
It's really intended to silence the
373
00:15:39,500 --> 00:15:46,042
whistleblowers to be honest.But it has a
374
00:15:46,042 --> 00:15:49,594
very culty type vibe where the unification
375
00:15:49,594 --> 00:15:52,174
is higher than truth and transparency or
376
00:15:52,174 --> 00:15:54,122
justice or accountability or even
377
00:15:54,122 --> 00:15:55,966
centering the victims at all They're
378
00:15:55,966 --> 00:15:58,938
really the center still once again is the
379
00:15:58,938 --> 00:16:02,218
predator pastor himself and not the
380
00:16:02,218 --> 00:16:06,618
victims and their or that they need
381
00:16:06,618 --> 00:16:07,794
centering the aftermath of their lives
382
00:16:07,794 --> 00:16:09,854
being completely blown up And the next one
383
00:16:09,854 --> 00:16:11,746
is I'll hear and lot around spiritual
384
00:16:11,746 --> 00:16:13,906
warfare or God wants to do big things and
385
00:16:13,906 --> 00:16:17,606
it needs to start with us And so once
386
00:16:17,606 --> 00:16:19,478
again really putting the ball in your
387
00:16:19,478 --> 00:16:23,014
court to do something to protect the preda
388
00:16:23,014 --> 00:16:26,614
pastor to be a part of what sort of feels
389
00:16:26,614 --> 00:16:31,206
like drawing again, line putting the sand
390
00:16:31,206 --> 00:16:34,294
Like there's two camps.You're either for
391
00:16:34,294 --> 00:16:38,054
us or you're against us You're in or
392
00:16:38,054 --> 00:16:40,478
you're out You're either on the side of
393
00:16:40,478 --> 00:16:41,498
evil spiritual warfare or you're on
394
00:16:41,498 --> 00:16:43,018
there's side of the good The pastor who
395
00:16:43,018 --> 00:16:44,906
poor thing he's had all these people out.
396
00:16:44,906 --> 00:16:47,178
to get him and he's being accused and
397
00:16:47,178 --> 00:16:48,702
God's already forgiving him So be on the
398
00:16:48,702 --> 00:16:51,038
side of all the good things that are
399
00:16:51,038 --> 00:16:52,138
happening or be on the other side.So it
400
00:16:52,138 --> 00:16:53,902
makes you feel like you've done something
401
00:16:53,902 --> 00:16:56,046
wrong by trying to speak the truth out
402
00:16:56,046 --> 00:16:57,778
loud by saying what the crimes were by
403
00:16:57,778 --> 00:16:59,474
even talking to other people to find out
404
00:16:59,474 --> 00:17:02,050
are we safe in this faith community Are
405
00:17:02,050 --> 00:17:04,002
the children safe Is the staff safe
406
00:17:04,002 --> 00:17:05,714
Whoever the victim survivors were, are
407
00:17:05,714 --> 00:17:09,046
there more coming out Are there more that
408
00:17:09,046 --> 00:17:10,194
are vulnerable Those conversations get
409
00:17:10,194 --> 00:17:12,166
really shut down by someone saying God
410
00:17:12,166 --> 00:17:16,454
wants to do big things and needs to start
411
00:17:16,454 --> 00:17:18,166
with us or their spiritual warfare These
412
00:17:18,166 --> 00:17:20,938
kind of tactics work unfortunately really
413
00:17:20,938 --> 00:17:24,714
well to use fear a power by fear to imply
414
00:17:24,714 --> 00:17:26,634
that you are on the wrong side if you
415
00:17:26,634 --> 00:17:29,942
speak out and often I'll hear people say
416
00:17:29,942 --> 00:17:32,954
if you speak against the church a their
417
00:17:32,954 --> 00:17:34,334
really meaning is speaking against the
418
00:17:34,334 --> 00:17:36,382
pastor the Preda pastor in this case But
419
00:17:36,382 --> 00:17:39,166
the church is often not interpreted to be
420
00:17:39,166 --> 00:17:41,694
the victim survivors And that's just a
421
00:17:41,694 --> 00:17:43,466
very unfortunate thing because it's not
422
00:17:43,466 --> 00:17:46,354
only the untrue it really just shows that
423
00:17:46,354 --> 00:17:48,754
really the pastor has centered himself as
424
00:17:48,754 --> 00:17:51,314
the church as if that's him and the
425
00:17:51,314 --> 00:17:53,026
institution needs him to sustain itself
426
00:17:53,026 --> 00:17:56,526
The next one is we have to change this way
427
00:17:56,526 --> 00:17:59,126
of thinking that is judgmental.And I think
428
00:17:59,126 --> 00:18:01,814
that's really intended to just say you
429
00:18:01,814 --> 00:18:04,662
needs to get sustain line and don't talk
430
00:18:04,662 --> 00:18:06,006
about Bruno If you've seen that movie
431
00:18:06,006 --> 00:18:07,846
whether it's that family that's
432
00:18:07,846 --> 00:18:09,046
dysfunctional doesn't want to talk about
433
00:18:09,046 --> 00:18:09,846
the family member everybody's supposed to
434
00:18:09,846 --> 00:18:13,206
not mention or it's a church in a system
435
00:18:13,206 --> 00:18:16,406
where everybody doesn't want to talk a the
436
00:18:16,406 --> 00:18:17,706
situation that just silence the narrative
437
00:18:17,706 --> 00:18:20,106
so we can control the narrative and use a
438
00:18:20,106 --> 00:18:22,086
lot of a management to a it look like
439
00:18:22,086 --> 00:18:26,506
things are going to be fine And then the
440
00:18:26,506 --> 00:18:28,506
last one but certainly not the least and
441
00:18:28,506 --> 00:18:29,246
narrative very impactful a often
442
00:18:29,246 --> 00:18:31,438
devastating thing to hear is we are no one
443
00:18:31,438 --> 00:18:35,706
The only one who can judge is God And this
444
00:18:35,706 --> 00:18:37,314
know really I would categorize as worm
445
00:18:37,314 --> 00:18:40,066
theology.If you're not familiar with that
446
00:18:40,066 --> 00:18:42,226
just type that into twitter or somewhere
447
00:18:42,226 --> 00:18:43,730
Just google that Worm theology is really
448
00:18:43,730 --> 00:18:45,346
just I really believe really, baseless
449
00:18:45,346 --> 00:18:47,686
theology that makes human image bearers of
450
00:18:47,686 --> 00:18:50,226
God All of us see ourselves as just
451
00:18:50,226 --> 00:18:52,850
complete dirt Complete like a wretch right
452
00:18:52,850 --> 00:18:56,774
If you remember that song just as I am is
453
00:18:56,774 --> 00:18:59,286
that it Who saved bearers wretch like me
454
00:18:59,286 --> 00:19:02,934
Just completely worthless That is not I
455
00:19:02,934 --> 00:19:05,674
think an accurate a of what we are reading
456
00:19:05,674 --> 00:19:07,738
in the scriptures It's basically used in
457
00:19:07,738 --> 00:19:08,646
religious environments to control people
458
00:19:08,646 --> 00:19:13,166
to make them feel small and
459
00:19:13,166 --> 00:19:15,054
insignificant.And it allows
460
00:19:15,054 --> 00:19:16,974
authoritarianism to really thrive And so
461
00:19:16,974 --> 00:19:20,800
in this environment I would say there was
462
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:24,030
basically bit of authoritarianism that was
463
00:19:24,030 --> 00:19:26,814
a part of the grooming process that kept
464
00:19:26,814 --> 00:19:30,274
people down So this man is more elevated
465
00:19:30,274 --> 00:19:31,906
this predopastor is more elevated and can
466
00:19:31,906 --> 00:19:34,818
then have free rein to prey upon and abuse
467
00:19:34,818 --> 00:19:37,540
a many as the wanted So unfortunately I
468
00:19:37,540 --> 00:19:40,622
heard all these this week from a
469
00:19:40,622 --> 00:19:42,534
congregant whose predopastor had 35 counts
470
00:19:42,534 --> 00:19:45,106
of assault And it's heavy.It's a lot to
471
00:19:45,106 --> 00:19:47,254
take in And if you're in a faith
472
00:19:47,254 --> 00:19:48,966
environment right now listening to this
473
00:19:48,966 --> 00:19:50,794
where things seem not right things seem
474
00:19:50,794 --> 00:19:55,818
like there's a lot of red flags You're not
475
00:19:55,818 --> 00:19:57,898
sure how to process it Maybe a pastor has
476
00:19:57,898 --> 00:20:00,170
been accused of abuse or even arrested for
477
00:20:00,170 --> 00:20:03,050
crimes and you're hearing these narratives
478
00:20:03,050 --> 00:20:05,486
I just want to say I'm sad with you that
479
00:20:05,486 --> 00:20:07,822
that's happening and I hope you get pastor
480
00:20:07,822 --> 00:20:11,146
has place of safety.I hope you get to a
481
00:20:11,146 --> 00:20:14,126
place where your voice matters And I hope
482
00:20:14,126 --> 00:20:17,934
you can find the freedom and the love
483
00:20:17,934 --> 00:20:19,506
that's you deserve to thrive with your
484
00:20:19,506 --> 00:20:21,058
spirituality in place place where it's
485
00:20:21,058 --> 00:20:23,506
safe to be you a to speak the truth out
486
00:20:23,506 --> 00:20:26,626
loud And if you want to reach out over
487
00:20:26,626 --> 00:20:28,846
Twitter around this thread feel free to
488
00:20:28,846 --> 00:20:30,898
chime in I've really enjoyed kind of
489
00:20:30,898 --> 00:20:32,614
processing with some of you these things
490
00:20:32,614 --> 00:20:34,518
and hearing your perspective and hearing
491
00:20:34,518 --> 00:20:36,390
your narratives I think there is a really
492
00:20:36,390 --> 00:20:37,766
beautiful community thread, sacred
493
00:20:37,766 --> 00:20:39,946
community of people who have survived this
494
00:20:39,946 --> 00:20:42,394
type of abuse either by watching this
495
00:20:42,394 --> 00:20:44,182
unfold things your community or
496
00:20:44,182 --> 00:20:46,746
experiencing it firsthand your yeah this
497
00:20:46,746 --> 00:20:49,482
conversation I just a to offer community,
498
00:20:49,482 --> 00:20:52,206
to you today because it's a heavy one and
499
00:20:52,206 --> 00:20:54,666
I know it's resonating with watching lot
500
00:20:54,666 --> 00:20:58,430
of you So feel free to reach out Once
501
00:20:58,430 --> 00:21:00,206
again join in our difference maker
502
00:21:00,206 --> 00:21:02,666
community on Patreon You can go today ww
503
00:21:02,666 --> 00:21:03,486
patreon.com a heavy world of difference
504
00:21:03,486 --> 00:21:04,914
and join today where we go deeper with
505
00:21:04,914 --> 00:21:06,994
Lance and his conversation last week
506
00:21:06,994 --> 00:21:09,026
You'll also find deeper episodes with all
507
00:21:09,026 --> 00:21:11,630
of the interviews I've done with different
508
00:21:11,630 --> 00:21:13,746
guests there including Dr.Scott McKnight
509
00:21:13,746 --> 00:21:15,346
Laura Behringer Dr Wade Mullen different
510
00:21:15,346 --> 00:21:17,542
ones that we've had on there that have
511
00:21:17,542 --> 00:21:20,306
discussed some of these particular things
512
00:21:20,306 --> 00:21:21,426
and are making a difference interviews
513
00:21:21,426 --> 00:21:23,094
their own faith communities by writing and
514
00:21:23,094 --> 00:21:26,434
researching and speaking the truth out
515
00:21:26,434 --> 00:21:27,798
loud and helping people walk through this
516
00:21:27,798 --> 00:21:30,134
And once again if this has brought up some
517
00:21:30,134 --> 00:21:32,374
things for you that you feel like you need
518
00:21:32,374 --> 00:21:34,234
to talk to a professional Betterhelp is
519
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the sponsor of this podcast so if you go
520
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522
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523
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So I highly recommend it to you And last
524
00:21:44,126 --> 00:21:49,806
but not least I would just say take a deep
525
00:21:49,806 --> 00:21:51,818
breath look around the room and notice
526
00:21:51,818 --> 00:21:52,942
five things that you see.Use some
527
00:21:52,942 --> 00:21:54,106
grounding techniques that will help you
528
00:21:54,106 --> 00:21:56,574
sort of process This is heavy It's hard to
529
00:21:56,574 --> 00:21:57,626
hold the terrible and look for the
530
00:21:57,626 --> 00:22:00,414
beautiful but we can hold them both And
531
00:22:00,414 --> 00:22:03,518
thank you for who you are and keep making
532
00:22:03,518 --> 00:22:04,510
that difference wherever you are Bye
533
00:22:04,510 --> 00:22:05,858
undefined undefined undefined undefined
534
00:22:05,858 --> 00:22:06,566
undefined undefined undefined undefined
535
00:22:06,566 --> 00:22:07,606
undefined undefined undefined undefined
536
00:22:07,606 --> 00:22:08,486
undefined undefined undefined undefined
537
00:22:08,486 --> 00:22:09,590
undefined undefined undefined undefined
538
00:22:09,590 --> 00:22:10,998
undefined undefined undefined undefined
539
00:22:10,998 --> 00:22:11,846
undefined undefined undefined undefined
540
00:22:11,846 --> 00:22:12,710
undefined undefined undefined undefined
541
00:22:12,710 --> 00:22:14,450
undefined undefined undefined undefined
