Connecting Through Content Creation, Cultural Exchange, & Personal Growth w/Jakob Sagatowski

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part of the vision of automation ladies was the fact that like and and even a little bit before, automation ladies, but just like a lot of like surrounding concepts um around, like automation ladies and uh, just like what me and Nikki do, and like we had created a group before that.

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that was like women in automation or women in industrial automation, I don't remember what it was called exactly girls messing with automation hardware or something like that, but like what the idea was that, like there's a lot of men that we know that are making content where they're, just like they have these backgrounds like this.

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So it was like what does that take, you know?

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Like I, I can do that in an afternoon.

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So it was like what does that take, you know?

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like I can do that in an afternoon, Right?

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So I was like I mean, what is that?

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Like I had to get like a board, you know, and you got to mount it on there and you got to get some controllers and my apartment at this point has like I don't even want to say how many because it's probably dangerous for my safety, but like there's a lot of plcs where I live and it's just a normal thing for me to be able to get, but like we don't see any content where women have that and it was just like.

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I just felt like that was an easy thing to solve.

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Yeah, I was like this is stupid.

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I felt, like we were, this was stupid, I felt, and so I was like okay, here, look, here, look.

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The first time I saw something like that a lot of PLCs, it's a little like you know, softer guys when they have a lot of monitors, it's you know, when you see people with three or four monitors, it's like you know.

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My first job long, long, long time ago.

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There was this guy and you know this was well.

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This was before flat screens.

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This was when you had big, big, big screens.

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He had three of them Because I have to have both right.

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And I'm like, oh, you got power supplies.

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Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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But he said I have three times.

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I have different size HMIs and PLCs multiple.

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I just wanted to say that he said that he was three times more efficient with three monitors, and I'm thinking, maybe that's the equivalent with automation.

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That you're just.

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You know, you, if you have 20 plcs, you ruin programming 20 times faster.

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That's, unfortunately, not what I was going for, but like that's so funny that, um, yeah, so that was the first stigma that I was.

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Just like this is kind of dumb, like can we do something about that real quick?

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Just like I'm a girl and there's PLCs there.

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Okay, end of the story.

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So, yeah, moving on.

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Like so you, where are you from?

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Welcome to an episode of Oddly.

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Lady.

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Thank you very much.

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Thank you very much.

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Pleasure is on my side.

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Pleasure is on my side.

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Thank you very much for inviting me.

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Do we call?

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you Jacob or Jakob?

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Jakob is fine, jakob is the Swedish version, jakob is yeah, that works.

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If you get it all wrong, I don't care.

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So you're Swedish, but you live in Germany.

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Yeah, I'm born in Poland, Moved to Sweden when I was two years old, so I kind of lived in Sweden for almost 40 years and currently living in Germany, just by coincidence.

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Basically, you know, I yeah, it's.

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The short story is I was in a job here, I installed Tinder on my phone while I was working here and that's what happened, and then I'm here.

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So, yeah, I mean I criticize the conclusion you hear of tinder stories, so that's great to hear yeah yeah, wow, we should share more of those in the automation community.

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Yeah, you only hear the bad stuff about tinder, but there's good stuff about it too absolutely yeah.

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So, yeah, I wanted to say, um, as the we are recording this, if you're hearing this, and maybe we'll release the video, um, but we are actually on summer break right now, but Ali uh, scheduled a couple of interviews that we really didn't want to reschedule, and I guess Michael Grolmus we recorded a couple weeks, a few weeks ago my concept of time is completely warped right now, and now we're getting this awesome opportunity to record with Jacob and we will release these as part of season four.

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So, if you're listening to this, we're recording in July, about three weeks up before OT Skate-a-Con.

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So that's also a reason why we needed to take a break from doing tons of podcast content.

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But, yeah, I think sometimes, you know, we I wish we could do this all the time, but we can't.

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So it's hard to schedule these in and and uh in lieu of, you know, having to start all over, cause it can take a long time to get people on the right.

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You know, get the schedule together, especially with people like you guys that are super busy, that also make your own content.

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Um, so we just want to say thank you for being here and I'll get a little, give a little context to those that are listening.

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Um, in case we say anything that's timely.

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Uh, that would be weird whenever you're listening to this but it's an honor to like talk to you.

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It is no, no, no pleasure's on my side.

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I mean you and you have, like, what is it called freedom day tomorrow?

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Not freedom day, independence day, independence day.

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But I think freedom, I think freedom, because whenever I hear usa, america for me, I think of the bald eagle, you know.

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And just freedom, here we come.

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I I should make a freedom day post with a bald eagle we actually like.

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Where I live there are bald eagles, which is amazing so I need to like, do like a, totally like PCE, like bald eagle post yeah.

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Okay, I will do that yeah.

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Ali's Native American, like animal, spirit animal.

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Is that what you call it?

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Am I saying this all wrong?

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It's just my name, it's just my name.

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Yeah, yeah, it's pretty eagle.

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Okay, that's right.

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Yeah yeah, I just realized it's Independence Day.

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Sorry, pretty equal that's right.

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Yeah, I just realized it's Independence.

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Day.

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Sorry, I screwed it up.

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I'm thinking, of course, of the movie I saw in the 90s or something with Will Smith.

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We had another war.

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We had a civil war, but that was different.

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That too, yeah, that's different.

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Different war.

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This was like how we got away from England.

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So for me, tomorrow is a little bit different, because I'm not originally from America, I'm from Iceland, and so not until I moved here did this date have any significance to me, other than the fact that it's my dad's birthday.

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And you speak Icelandic.

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I do yeah.

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Okay.

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So we could probably communicate.

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Not really.

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I've many childhood friends that are from iceland, but yeah, their language is on a different level yeah, I speak spanish and like I understand portuguese, like 80 of portuguese, like I get it, I get what's going on.

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If you have, if you show me a portuguese conversation, I'm gonna understand in general what concepts they were like talking about.

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But like, and I'm not going to get 100 percent of it, and like I even feel and this is crazy but like even Italian, I'm like I think I know that one's only 60 percent, 50, 60, like half of it, but you only need the body.

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Yeah, the numbers are the same.

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Like yeah, the emotions there, but like and same thing with french.

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Like I understand a lot of french, but like I really understand a lot of portuguese.

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Unnaturally, I'm like I have no idea what they're saying, but like I do, and so, um, yeah, I think.

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I think it's probably like the same thing with you guys.

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You're just overlapping, you're like, yeah, I know what you're saying, there's enough like so there's some words that are similar um, and then I think I can probably understand more swedish than you could understand yeah, that's exactly.

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It's in that this is usually the direction it is I heard nik Nikki talk to her dad once in Icelandic and I would like to hear it again and like, but it just like.

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I don't know any other language so I can't compare it to anything.

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So I don't have any reference and I know a lot of languages and I've heard have any reference and I know a lot of languages and I've heard a lot of languages and I know a lot of accents and her dad has like such a thick accent that I'm just like I'm not sure what he said and I'm usually so good Like, if you have a like, if you have like an Indian accent, like you're from India, I usually can like, like, do a good job with your english accent, like.

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And if you're like from mexico or have any kind of hispanic like, no problem accent.

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But like someone, a german even I know like if you have, I can tell if someone's from germany just because I worked for a german company, probat uh, they make coffee roasters, probat, verka, uh, and so after I like I know german people who came over to live and teach us how to like do uh coffee roasters, like teach like americans how to do that, like from germany, like, oh, that's a really old company and like our company is younger, the american version, it's like the american branch of that, or was uh.

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But yeah, like I don't know where I was going with that.

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Yeah, I said it gets hard, I think, is where you're going.

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Oh yeah, oh my god.

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Not only is the language hard, but the accent Is hard as well, I'm more intimidated by that than Mandarin, and like Cantonese.

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I'm more impressed by the fact that there's so few Icelandic people that you seldomly encounter them Across the, and I know, like three of them, which is statistically quite unlikely Icelandic people that you seldomly encounter them across the, across the other side of the world, like three of them, which is statistically quite unlikely when we moved here, people would generally ask if we were German.

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I don't get that anymore as an adult, but I think it's just like the closest thing that people around here knew.

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That sounded.

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You know something like that.

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But anyway, you may appreciate this we're having at ot skater con.

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This is a promise that I made to alex marcy, but I had shared some article about swedish.

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Uh saturday candy tradition the horrible, horrible tradition yeah, we have that in iceland.

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In iceland too we call it okay Sounds almost the same.

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Yeah, so some of the things like servietta, like that you would know what that is in Swedish.

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So there's random words that are kind of the same.

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Some traditions overlap.

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But yeah, we're having a nammebar at OT Skater Con and I put in a monster of candy via DHL from Iceland.

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That's coming on Monday and I'm so.

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yeah, nobody's gonna want to eat it because it's like soft black grease and, yeah, licorice.

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Some people are weird licorice with chocolate do you have, do you have the concept of, of last week's gold, this?

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So like kind of like you know candy, you buy just in you know one at a time and then you mix it together.

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Yeah, yeah, in english it's called pick and mix yeah and I guess they have it at ikea, so yeah, that's right.

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It's just not.

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It's just not a thing here in germany, and I kind of miss that you know, whenever it's more european than american I mean we have these candy stores here in the us that like it will be an entire store.

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That is just that where you can mix okay but it's not common to find it at any other.

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Yeah, this is the thing, like if, even if you go to some tiny, tiny store in northern Sweden in the middle of nowhere, like literally in northern Sweden, and there's like a population, 100 people and there's a store, they still have that corner.

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You know where you can mix your candy so when I was growing up, uh and this speaks to inflation as well I I would get 50 kroner icelandic kroner which is equivalent to about 50 cents, and I could go get pick and mix on a saturday and my local store at least close to my grandma's house was they didn't even have a pick your own.

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It was like in a glass, it was at the reception desk, or like the checkout was a glass counter with tiny bowls underneath with candy and then like the person would reach in with the spoon and it sounds like halloween, and so you would either be like you would either tell them exactly what you want, or you would be like give me whatever I can have for 50 cents, yeah, and it would come in a tiny little like green bag man.

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Such memories yeah, yeah, now, now.

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Now you can afford to buy as much candy as you want, but now you're giving yourself guilty feelings instead for it.

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So you know, just because you make more money doesn't doesn't make yeah, it doesn't make you more happy.

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Unfortunately, I thought as a child once I work, I'm gonna be able to buy infinite amounts of candy.

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Yes, and then you realize your priorities change.

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My kids are in the phase right now.

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They're like, they see me work and they're like, oh, I want to work too, mommy.

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They're like, why do you get to do all the fun stuff?

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Like go to work, and I'm just like, oh, my God, I love my work, don't get me wrong and I want my kids to see that you can do something that you enjoy, but at the same time like, yeah, the grass is always greener, right, and I think that's one of the things.

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I just I want people that don't know about automation.

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It's not a perfect career, it's not.

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You know, I can't say it's all you know, rainbows and sunshine all the time.

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But those of us that enjoy it, we really enjoy it.

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And it's not even a game job.

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Well, it's relative, it depends what you compare it to, but it's very varying.

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It's extremely varying and you can make it extremely varying as well.

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If you get bored in one part of it, you can do mechanical design even.

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You don't have to do anything directly related to PLCs's.

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I I've seen people that really vary and this is what impresses me a lot with the with the field of industrial automation that people work with so many.

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You know the knowledge spectrum is so wide, right, everyone argues about the programming things, right, but real good, you know, plc automation engineers, they, they just have.

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I've just seen people that do all kinds of things and I'm just really impressed by it and I kind of see that the people that want to have fun, they widen themselves into other areas of industrial automation.

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So it's fantastically fun and definitely I know people that have gone from software to industrial automation and the other way around.

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You know, because it's always like this, it's greener on the other side.

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But I personally I think industrial automation has much more to offer.

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Field work is like it's so hard and so like demanding.

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I think that, like there's this like forgiveness of people, like roughnesses, and so we end up with like a really interesting group of people that can actually do like the field work itself, because it can't just be people that like are used to like offices like these are.

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These are people that are like built to like sit on a bucket or stand all day, or a tire or something.

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It's not exactly.

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It's not exactly the same as like IT work or like server room work, because at least the server room has AC to protect the servers.

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Not you, they don't care about you but like the servers have AC Around them to protect them.

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Like out there the equipment just eats your body Like whatever is coming from that Chemical wise.

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You just live in that and like so it's just a different, like I guess that's the ot environment and like it's just rough yeah, there are some really unpleasant uh areas, and not just in terms of of that kind of like, whether it's pretty or not, but also in terms of how I've been in some well, no, no, actually, no, I've been some countries where I felt like I don't think I want to contribute to this because they've seen humans like like uh, replaceables, like disposables, I don't know you know where, like no safety thinking or anything, and I'm like, okay, I'm, I don't want to contribute to this because you know industry it's like, okay, they want to save 100 dollars, but this might cost someone's arm, you know, because they think that that's just cheaper for us.

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Because they have no safety standards.

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Yeah.

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And that's yeah we've seen people do that.

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It does matter at ot skater, con was mentioning in the group chat yesterday like he was sharing some old pictures and he was like, oh yeah, I left this right after I saw this and he sent us a picture of like some safety interlock that was cut or doran, or I forget.

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But he was like, yeah, you know, I and and I think as professionals especially if we're automation professionals, like we don't necessarily work directly at that plant all of the time it is good to be in a position to be able to say like no, I don't want to contribute to this, this is not something yeah, yeah, and I know, not everyone has that option like I do right I can pick and choose, so I can say nope, not for me.

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You know why, while I know that not everyone is in the situation in the world based on yeah, what you feel has integrity or not?

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yeah, so I do want to try to back up and kind of ask our first normal question we haven't had any normal.

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We haven't had any normal questions yet no, okay, um, and that's okay if you're okay with it.

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Uh, we, we do these.

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I started.

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I started talking about tinder, so I I don't think I have anything to say.

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No vote in this I talk to the audience sometimes, um, audience knows, hopefully by now, that we don't produce this content specifically for the listeners.

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I mean, that's a bonus that people listen and they like our conversations.

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But ali and I have always said, even if nobody ever listened to this, it would be worth it for us to spend this time and to do this thing because of these conversations that we get to have, which, yeah, just really like we work so much and we're so busy and yeah it would be really hard to do this thing as an extra if it wasn't also just fun and and I have this they've

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already written the comments that are like, I love what you said the other day on whatever, whatever post, so, like, at this point it's been validated, so even if no one ever listens again, which isn't the case case like we don't care and so it just comes very authentic content, like we really want to.

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I want to know, like I personally have questions about a lot of things regarding your life and back off, and so, yeah, go to there.

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Let's ask the question and then you can ask all your follow-up questions.

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Jacob, if you could tell us kind of in as much detail as you'd like, the story of how you got to be where you are now and doing what you're doing, uh, as it relates to kind of your career and your, your, whatever your content, your job, the stuff that you're working on now, I I've had, I've had luck my whole life.

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I would say I'm just a person that constantly has luck, not not just on on tinder, apparently, but also in in in general.

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So I, I started, you know, I, I got a computer when I saw a kid and I was very lucky because, you know, my parents weren't we were very poor and my we, I got a computer because my brother really wanted it and he was older.

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So I was just a small kid that happened to, you know, get to sit by it when my brother was out partying with all his friends.

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And so I got into the computer thing quite early and thought, you know, it was like many other children.

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You know, when you press a key, the A key on the keyboard, and you know you see an A on the screen and you're like OMG, this is amazing.

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You know you press B and then there's a P and like how does that work?

00:19:23.769 --> 00:19:24.890
It's really really cool.

00:19:29.134 --> 00:19:30.557
So I got into computers by luck, I would say.

00:19:30.557 --> 00:19:47.250
And you know it just happens to be that the universe somehow was aligned in such a way, after 13.7 billion years of you know existence, 7 billion years of you know exist existence, it just happened to happen that somehow computing is very good to work with because it pays well.

00:19:47.250 --> 00:19:52.105
So you know and that happened to happen to me that you know, I got into the it industry and did some software development in various industries.

00:19:52.105 --> 00:20:04.368
So I did mostly of my life I've been doing the traditional it development stuff so far away just like you said, alicia, that it's far away in an office, no dirt, everything is clean, clean toilets, everything is just nice.

00:20:04.734 --> 00:20:04.915
I don't.

00:20:04.915 --> 00:20:09.542
I can sit on a normal office chair, yeah, even that I know, and that's a luxury, right.

00:20:09.542 --> 00:20:13.122
I've learned not to expect that and I don't take it for granted anymore.

00:20:13.122 --> 00:20:15.777
So a really, really nice environment, right.

00:20:15.777 --> 00:20:23.545
But then I, kind of just by coincidence, I got into, I applied for a job because I just got tired of what I was doing.

00:20:23.545 --> 00:20:27.888
And you know, sometimes you get this thing in life, right, that you're like do I want to do this my whole life?

00:20:27.888 --> 00:20:30.171
I think I mean this is classic for everyone, right?

00:20:30.171 --> 00:20:32.676
If you're done, yeah, yeah, yeah, and you're just.

00:20:32.676 --> 00:20:44.259
You know, you just get this unpleasant thing over you and you can just hear a voice somewhere that says like maybe universal across all countries people.

00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:49.534
Yeah, I think so, I think so like change yep yeah, and it's just as you know.

00:20:49.534 --> 00:20:57.000
You get comfortable and like, yeah, you know, I've been doing this for 10, 15 years and we like challenge yeah, and you just do the same thing.

00:20:57.020 --> 00:20:58.042
You don't learn anything new.

00:20:58.042 --> 00:20:59.406
So not nothing special.

00:20:59.406 --> 00:21:04.403
But I got into industrial automation by chance and I basically lied on my first interview.

00:21:04.403 --> 00:21:05.598
They're like do you know what this is?

00:21:05.598 --> 00:21:15.565
And I'm like, of course that's easy peasy, Everyone knows what a PLC is, and I don't endorse it either.

00:21:15.565 --> 00:21:19.743
I don't endorse it either and I was like of course everyone knows what a PLC is.

00:21:21.434 --> 00:21:21.776
My mom either.

00:21:21.776 --> 00:21:25.451
So and I was like, of course, everyone knows what a plc is, my mom knows my grandma you know, knows what the plc is, and and they're like cool, cool.

00:21:25.510 --> 00:21:40.701
And you know, apparently they were desperate to hire us because they hired me so or or I was just very good at lying and and um, so you know that's how my mom actually does know what a plc is yeah, but your mom is probably one of the few moms that does she watches.

00:21:40.701 --> 00:21:50.644
She watches YouTube, so maybe she does know PLC programming now, but she always writes some cute word in my YouTube comments and you know I had to delete some of them.

00:21:50.644 --> 00:21:51.759
I had to delete because she's right.

00:21:51.778 --> 00:21:51.959
Oh my.

00:21:51.980 --> 00:21:52.079
God.

00:21:52.119 --> 00:21:53.104
We need to add your mom.

00:21:53.836 --> 00:21:57.717
Yeah, she sends these hearts in my YouTube comments and I'm like Mom, stop doing that.

00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:04.704
My mom had to ask me if it was okay that she likes my LinkedIn content.

00:22:04.704 --> 00:22:06.366
I don't want to embarrass you.

00:22:06.386 --> 00:22:17.489
But that's nice that your mom asks, because my mom doesn't ask, she just does oh my God, you have parents that love us.

00:22:21.775 --> 00:22:23.378
I think honestly, I've come to realize that is that's so nice, not?

00:22:23.398 --> 00:22:25.584
to take for granted, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely.

00:22:25.584 --> 00:22:28.037
That's why I feel shit when I sometimes delete her comments.

00:22:30.342 --> 00:22:33.449
I don't deserve such a good mom, I don't deserve such a good mom.

00:22:33.449 --> 00:22:36.680
Yeah, yeah, no, no, no.

00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:43.690
So so I I got into industrial automation and you know quite not, that's a while ago now, and it's just fun.

00:22:43.690 --> 00:22:55.268
It's just fun because the absolute number one reason is that you get close to the hardware, you get to real fast moving stuff and you know pneumatics and big motors, big drives.

00:22:55.268 --> 00:22:56.635
It's just.

00:22:56.635 --> 00:22:57.696
It was just a lot of fun.

00:22:57.696 --> 00:23:07.150
And it's the thing is, it's not just manufacturing, there's so many other things and first, when I heard of PLCs, I thought it was only in manufacturing, that it's in factories.

00:23:07.150 --> 00:23:14.083
But no, I just see them everywhere.

00:23:14.083 --> 00:23:17.689
You know there's a big scientific community that's using PLC for all kinds of projects.

00:23:17.689 --> 00:23:24.405
So telescopes is one that I happen to have be lucky to to work with, but there's many other type of uh projects.

00:23:24.405 --> 00:23:25.409
Like you have the, the.

00:23:25.409 --> 00:23:30.282
You know this big anything, anything that moves yeah, exactly, and you can do it.

00:23:30.343 --> 00:23:36.589
Yeah, there's, there's just so many liquid, literally anything that does anything they're everywhere.

00:23:36.630 --> 00:23:43.248
I see them to the in the metro, right, and and that's the funny thing when, once you got into it, then you, like with anything, you started to see them right.

00:23:43.248 --> 00:23:49.244
When I walk on the street and I see someone working on a cabinet fixing the what is the English word?

00:23:49.244 --> 00:23:52.266
The red-green light, you know that switches between them.

00:23:52.646 --> 00:23:53.349
Oh, the traffic light.

00:23:54.077 --> 00:23:54.760
Oh, that's the PLC.

00:24:04.595 --> 00:24:06.240
And then you know, like a geek you go there and just curiously look what?

00:24:06.259 --> 00:24:06.580
what brand is it?

00:24:06.580 --> 00:24:07.042
What are they working?

00:24:07.063 --> 00:24:08.827
on, you know, and then suddenly you see them everywhere, like I never noticed them before.

00:24:08.847 --> 00:24:10.252
Turn on those three colors yeah, yeah there has to be output somewhere.

00:24:10.252 --> 00:24:13.560
I had no idea that like building automation or even hvac systems.

00:24:13.560 --> 00:24:26.000
Yeah well, I remember like an episode of um, what is it anatomy when, uh, the ac goes out, something like the electricity is, and they, like the doctors, try to go fix it and they go out to this giant panel.

00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:26.643
Oh, God.

00:24:26.643 --> 00:24:28.317
Like.

00:24:28.336 --> 00:24:29.140
BFDs and all these things.

00:24:29.140 --> 00:24:30.042
Relays everywhere.

00:24:30.796 --> 00:24:31.618
I've got a wrench.

00:24:31.618 --> 00:24:35.538
I'm gonna fix this and yeah, before I would have.

00:24:35.538 --> 00:24:38.020
Just you know, you just don't think anything about it.

00:24:38.375 --> 00:24:46.626
Yeah, yeah, exactly, and downtime is just very expensive, right, and you feel the torch burning on your neck when something doesn't work.

00:24:46.626 --> 00:24:50.084
Yeah, no, so that's kind of the thing it was.

00:24:50.084 --> 00:24:59.601
And again, I was just lucky and happened to work with this company called Beckhoff and I just got into it.

00:24:59.601 --> 00:25:12.903
Luck, luck, luck, luck again with with them, and I noticed that this is a nice platform to work with and I can use some of my practices I've been using in my software life, so to speak, because I'm separating this life so a little bit.

00:25:12.903 --> 00:25:26.885
I mean, they're they're kind of intertwined, but they're still so separate that I feel like there's one before, uh, before and after, you know, and, and so when I got into the automation, there was one before and after, and so when I got into automation there was the before life and now it's the after, the afterlife.

00:25:26.965 --> 00:25:53.077
Okay, that sounds weird, but Beckhoff kind of gave me that option to use some of my practices I had been using from there, which I kind of started, which I first took for granted, but then when I looked at other brands and tested some other brands, I realized, okay, I can, I first took for granted, but then, when I looked at other brands and tested some other brands, I realized, okay, I can't take this for granted because you know the all platforms don't support and give you the options for, um, the practices that you might be used to from from from the software industry.

00:25:53.077 --> 00:26:12.545
So, and that's the funny thing, right, that we're kind of like in the part now, or or right now, we're in the situation where companies are slowly starting to adopt some of the practices from the IT industry into OT, and this is, of course, super exciting and you can basically Convergence.

00:26:13.155 --> 00:26:18.041
Yeah, you can convergence, but you can basically make a whole career around this, right, and that's what we're doing.

00:26:18.041 --> 00:26:23.284
There's just so much stuff to do and so much stuff to to cover do you have uh like?

00:26:23.304 --> 00:26:25.607
what about your childhood before that?

00:26:25.607 --> 00:26:27.877
How did you know you were even good at like math?

00:26:27.998 --> 00:26:30.743
I wasn't, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not.

00:26:30.984 --> 00:26:34.960
No, I'm not I I well, you're good at logic like how can you?

00:26:34.980 --> 00:26:35.161
program.

00:26:35.161 --> 00:26:37.826
Yeah, that's right, but but I'm uh, yeah.

00:26:37.826 --> 00:26:41.422
So I went to school, I did engineering and everything, but I hated math.

00:26:41.422 --> 00:26:42.042
I, I to.

00:26:42.042 --> 00:26:43.686
I can tell you I hated it.

00:26:43.686 --> 00:26:46.259
Yeah, I hated it.

00:26:46.734 --> 00:26:47.940
And that gives everyone hope.

00:26:47.940 --> 00:26:52.723
You could literally be yeah and I'm successful and hate math.

00:26:53.125 --> 00:26:54.067
I mean my nephew.

00:26:54.067 --> 00:26:58.566
Yeah, my nephew is coming here from Sweden tomorrow, here to Germany.

00:26:58.566 --> 00:27:01.300
He's going to stay here with me and know he hates math.

00:27:01.300 --> 00:27:07.923
And you know, if it was me 20 years ago, I would say no, no, it's important, but I'm like no, you can find other ways around it.

00:27:07.923 --> 00:27:13.682
You know, you don't have to be and there's software, yeah I mean it doesn't.

00:27:14.044 --> 00:27:25.183
But you have to trust it because if they asked us to verify, we're screwed and there's, there's I, some certain way of thinking, when you've done a lot of math, that maybe I also take for granted that I stopped thinking about.

00:27:25.183 --> 00:27:26.617
But you know, there's just.

00:27:26.617 --> 00:27:31.962
I would say, a lot of the time I spent at university doing math is really wasted.

00:27:32.022 --> 00:27:44.816
I would say I think it's funny when you ask people that actually know like the different maths versus like someone off, like you know someone that has no math background whatsoever, they're going to be like oh my God, you love math.

00:27:44.816 --> 00:27:59.050
Cause, like the math that we know is probably like a lot more math exposure and that's why we're like we hate math but like most people don't know the math that we've even seen, uh, just because of the education that we have.

00:27:59.050 --> 00:28:13.715
So, like we have the luxury of being like we hate math when like people like actually hate like addition and subtraction and we're talking about like I don't like calculus or like differential equations, right, so we're being like ridiculous.

00:28:13.836 --> 00:28:18.798
And then I recently worked with someone that hates math to a point where they don't want to do like simple.

00:28:18.878 --> 00:28:33.288
I don't like tensor, like that's like differentially, that's like third derivative of like motion, like it's just yeah, so that's the math that I hate yeah, I mean, you don't have to go to math.

00:28:33.468 --> 00:28:37.392
It was the same doing theory in computer science, right?

00:28:37.392 --> 00:28:47.969
When I think about what I'm doing for everyday work today, it's like I really didn't learn the stuff that I wish I had learned at university.

00:28:47.969 --> 00:29:03.404
When I'm doing that, so how I'm running a software project and just basic stuff like basic stuff like version control Okay, it's not basic in the automation industry maybe, but you know these kind of things, we didn't discuss that even though it existed and it was so much theory and so little practice.

00:29:03.404 --> 00:29:04.648
And this is what I'm feeling.

00:29:05.141 --> 00:29:08.364
Yeah, it was hard to relate Like how is this related to?

00:29:08.364 --> 00:29:09.266
The real world.

00:29:09.266 --> 00:29:11.690
We couldn't see it so we're just like.

00:29:11.750 --> 00:29:12.672
It was just like a wall.

00:29:12.672 --> 00:29:13.680
I hit just like a wall.

00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:15.203
When I came out to the industry.

00:29:15.203 --> 00:29:17.809
I was like you know I think we all did.

00:29:17.829 --> 00:29:21.626
It's not you, it's no, no, it's everyone like what is this education?

00:29:22.028 --> 00:29:26.926
you really feel this slope right, like you think you're smart and then you realize you're really stupid.

00:29:26.926 --> 00:29:31.968
You're really stupid and I'm I still think like it's so annoying because every day I don't.

00:29:31.968 --> 00:29:40.422
I feel like I'm getting more and more stupid because I just realize how much I have to learn and I'm never gonna learn a fraction of everything.

00:29:40.422 --> 00:29:45.271
So it's it's not just uh, what is it called in swedish cliche?

00:29:45.271 --> 00:29:54.991
It's not just a thing you say like you know, it's really true that the more stuff you learn, the more you realize you don't, you don't know oh yeah cliche, that's the english word.

00:29:55.112 --> 00:30:01.662
Yeah I love that, yep definitely yeah no, I think that's very across all cultures.

00:30:01.741 --> 00:30:17.894
Again, cliches yeah, yes, and and the fact that, like you can, if you're ignorant of something, you can very well think that you know and then, but when you really do start to educate yourself or get insight into something like, the more you realize how little you know.

00:30:17.894 --> 00:30:23.396
And I've heard very much lately just from different people like that.

00:30:23.396 --> 00:30:47.193
We've been interacting with people that are training at OT Skatecon all kinds of things, like people we talked to in Nashville that are people that are have been in this career for like 20, 30 years, right, and so there's a lot of things they take for granted that they know from practical experience and now they're training younger engineers coming out of college and they're like what are they teaching these kids?

00:30:47.193 --> 00:30:54.308
They have a whole engineering degree and they don't know the difference between a stepper motor and a servo motor basic industry knowledge.

00:30:54.388 --> 00:31:01.188
That is still not being taught in schools, unless maybe I guess, if you go to like a mechatronics program they would probably teach you that right.

00:31:01.188 --> 00:31:04.748
But and then I've heard the same thing about um machining.

00:31:04.748 --> 00:31:07.416
It's like cn machining and stuff like that.

00:31:07.416 --> 00:31:11.626
Like the programs they're actually teaching in school, they're not in many cases.

00:31:12.528 --> 00:31:25.310
They're like fully unprepared for the commercial side of where the technology is and that's been a problem for at least 10 years because they weren't training chemies to do real chemi work like you can't.

00:31:25.310 --> 00:31:34.241
You can't train a chemical engineer to go out into the workforce and then not know how to buy a flow meter, not know how to buy equipment.

00:31:34.241 --> 00:31:35.846
I don't know where to buy a tank.

00:31:35.846 --> 00:31:37.750
I don't even know how to buy a tank.

00:31:37.750 --> 00:31:52.545
I don't know anything about sanitary connections, like you would have to know about actual, like plumbing, like standards, in that like there's just stuff that like maybe they've changed, but like the theory is not enough.

00:31:52.545 --> 00:31:58.692
And so you just throw these kids out there and a lot of them don't make it because they're like I can't do this.

00:31:58.692 --> 00:32:04.172
Like they literally are proven to be stupid, because they are, even though they're not actually stupid.

00:32:04.192 --> 00:32:14.189
They just like we were all very unprepared, thrown into it and then, if we made it, then we're like look at me, I made it like and the rest of it it's like.

00:32:14.189 --> 00:32:15.767
If you didn't made it, then we're like look at me, I made it like and the rest of it is like.

00:32:15.767 --> 00:32:49.490
If you didn't make it like, you're like I live and, by the way, I know people like that, I'm like and it sucks because it's like you guys got the real education and then you ended up being like so unsupported in your specific roles that, like you were just like screw it, because it mattered whether or not you had the determination to stay where they're just telling you that you suck and to also just like fight the fact that you have no idea what you're doing and learn it all from scratch and be like it's okay, I'm gonna be okay, I'm just gonna learn it from.

00:32:49.611 --> 00:32:59.888
I see that that's an opportunity for us because I I personally I think it's very fun to get the new young people in and teach them and talk with them and they come with very, very good ideas.

00:32:59.888 --> 00:33:03.806
So I do a lot of.

00:33:03.806 --> 00:33:07.319
So I'm running my own business now, right, and I do a lot of pair programming.

00:33:07.319 --> 00:33:09.884
I sit with, you know, with companies and help them.

00:33:09.884 --> 00:33:13.412
Do you know we're doing, what problems we're trying trying to solve?

00:33:13.412 --> 00:33:15.316
How can we bring the business value?

00:33:15.316 --> 00:33:23.144
You know, how can we measure it so it's not just the programming but it's the business part of it as well and make like, how can we set up a software development uh, process?

00:33:23.144 --> 00:33:29.288
How should we organize the software development process to maximize the, the output, basically, from what we're going to do?

00:33:29.288 --> 00:33:32.104
And then we do some pair programming sessions to teach them some good practices.

00:33:32.766 --> 00:33:37.726
And I often encounter, you know, sitting with them and they say something you know, like why didn't I think of that?

00:33:37.726 --> 00:33:52.712
You know, this guy, he's, he's 20, he's half my age, you know, he's 20, in his early 20s, and and I'm thinking that's something fantastic and I love to see this sparkle in their eyes, you know when, when they're sitting there and learning something, and they're like yeah, so this is how it works in the industry.

00:33:52.712 --> 00:33:57.346
I mean, I literally had a meeting this this afternoon that's real contribution to society.

00:33:57.868 --> 00:34:00.719
You know, I mean it's the pleasure is on my side.

00:34:00.719 --> 00:34:05.892
The pleasure is on my side because I I could literally, he was, literally, I saw on it, I saw on his face.

00:34:05.892 --> 00:34:13.514
We came to a concept that I'm not going to go into details, but we came into a concept about talking about mocking, which is part of something.

00:34:13.514 --> 00:34:24.103
When you do test automation, you're mock, you're creating, you mean the universe about the function you want to do, and then you're simulation, sure yeah, on a low level, and and, and then I saw on him.

00:34:24.244 --> 00:34:28.300
I literally saw on his face, because we're sitting like you and me are sitting remotely.

00:34:28.300 --> 00:34:38.989
I saw it click, you know, and and then I did this and I said I understand, and the joy for me was like immense for him as well, of course, but for him as well.

00:34:38.989 --> 00:34:45.612
And so I kind of see that everything that the university doesn't teach means that I get the joy to do that instead.

00:34:46.161 --> 00:34:46.943
That's the way you say it.

00:34:46.943 --> 00:34:48.349
Feelings matter.

00:34:49.480 --> 00:34:51.625
Yeah, of course, definitely, definitely.

00:34:51.625 --> 00:34:59.269
I mean, this is, this is fun in business and in life yeah, and in engineering yeah in engineering

00:34:59.992 --> 00:35:06.329
yeah, and business in life, in mentorship yeah, it's a very social activity.

00:35:06.369 --> 00:35:19.525
You know, I went 20 years ago, I, I thought it was just all about technology and you know, learning all the languages, all the tech stacks and everything, yeah, and that's, that's definitely um, yeah, I, I and I remember when a small part?

00:35:20.086 --> 00:35:32.786
yeah, it's, it's a very small part, definitely so I, I think I I agree with you, but I see that still as an opportunity to to teach all this young, and not always just young people, of course, but generally young because they're coming from university.

00:35:32.786 --> 00:35:35.771
Yeah, more people in the industry that are learning.

00:35:35.891 --> 00:35:43.583
Yeah, fantastic point that we may, you know, some of us with more experience go oh, these people aren't being taught what, what I know.

00:35:43.583 --> 00:35:56.666
But then on the flip side, like that's a reverse mentoring opportunity because they're going to have all kinds of perspectives and ideas and ways of doing things that they can think of that maybe we haven't and it doesn't mean they're not good like just because we didn't think of it.

00:35:57.771 --> 00:35:57.931
Yeah.

00:35:58.501 --> 00:35:59.987
They know how to use technology.

00:35:59.987 --> 00:36:01.507
They know how to use social media.

00:36:01.507 --> 00:36:04.449
They know how do you do marketing different.

00:36:04.449 --> 00:36:21.501
They know a lot of things that we and that are changing because, like, the stuff that we know isn't the only way and, as generations come up, that stuff even changes, including the way that we market, or market even to new employees or market to like it's.

00:36:21.501 --> 00:36:23.585
It's both ends all the time.

00:36:23.585 --> 00:36:27.420
It's constantly changing, literally based on generation, which is incredible.

00:36:27.420 --> 00:36:41.653
But we have opportunities to like, track all that and use technology if we're willing to change constantly, which we're going to be forced at this point to do anyway definitely yeah, yeah, yeah, and.

00:36:42.240 --> 00:36:43.985
And the automation industry is it's.

00:36:43.985 --> 00:36:44.646
I was okay.

00:36:44.646 --> 00:36:55.375
It's slower than what maybe I was used to in the it, where you always jumped on the next thing every year or every month everything and the latest JavaScript framework and everything.

00:36:55.375 --> 00:36:56.023
It was always new.

00:36:56.023 --> 00:36:59.608
This is moving much slower, but that's for a good reason.

00:36:59.608 --> 00:37:10.849
But, yeah, I would still say there's still the variety here in industrial automation is still so big that you can still spend a lifetime working in it.

00:37:12.302 --> 00:37:20.945
Yeah, so speaking of, let's say, platforms, so in the more, I guess, narrow area of, let's say, plc programming, like you mentioned, some people are like oh, they're all you know.

00:37:21.626 --> 00:37:29.929
There's differences of opinion on how to do that or which platform is best or which software to use, but in the grand scheme of things, in automation it doesn't really matter.

00:37:29.929 --> 00:37:44.300
If the PLC does the job that it's supposed to, then you know, and the machine produces what it needs to, then what language you programmed it in right is immaterial to, let's say, the plug manager or or whoever else, but you specialize in in plc programming.

00:37:44.300 --> 00:37:56.610
Uh, and I feel like I've just from my limited interaction with your content, because I don't have too much time or a good reason to watch like in-depth PLC programming videos, for instance, myself.

00:38:00.423 --> 00:38:02.869
That's a shame because sorry that I'm interrupting you.

00:38:02.869 --> 00:38:03.391
That's a shame.

00:38:03.391 --> 00:38:11.951
You need to help me with the stats, because I literally looked at them before this meeting and I have 1.1% of my viewers are female viewers.

00:38:11.951 --> 00:38:16.599
So if you could please watch my videos just to push that number up a little bit.

00:38:16.820 --> 00:38:18.447
Okay, I would love to watch more of them.

00:38:18.447 --> 00:38:22.228
And I don't want to for interrupting my two-minute compound question.

00:38:22.228 --> 00:38:24.072
Slash monologue.

00:38:26.601 --> 00:38:27.606
We'll get some ladies in there.

00:38:28.463 --> 00:38:50.775
My question was actually related to this, because I feel like I've seen content from you talking about you know, just like the value of sharing what you know, not gating this knowledge, not hoarding the knowledge, thinking that that's going to make us more valuable, and that you've obviously created an extremely successful YouTube channel that gives away tons of knowledge for free, consistently.

00:38:50.775 --> 00:38:55.824
Tell us about I guess, yeah, guess, yeah, how did you, when did you start your youtube channel and why?

00:38:56.264 --> 00:39:03.427
um, and a little bit about that journey so, um, it was a long mental journey, uh, so I'm not.

00:39:03.427 --> 00:39:13.052
I'm really gonna shorten this down to the short version, because the long version is is terribly long, but the short version is basically no, no, tinder is not involved.

00:39:13.452 --> 00:39:17.150
You probably, it's as far as way as tinder as you can get, and I'm gonna get to it.

00:39:17.150 --> 00:39:17.413
Why?

00:39:17.413 --> 00:39:17.634
Now?

00:39:17.634 --> 00:39:18.960
Actually, it's actually the anti-tinder.

00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:23.610
It was one of my first automation places I went to and, yeah, I'm gonna.

00:39:23.610 --> 00:39:25.121
Okay, I'm gonna tell you the story.

00:39:25.121 --> 00:39:33.128
It was one of the first automation places I went to and I was working on a project together with a guy, and you know he was.

00:39:33.909 --> 00:39:50.451
I was completely new at that machine and I tried to understand how it worked and I immediately got the feeling you know, it doesn't require much of an IQ, but I immediately felt like this guy doesn't want to tell me how this works, because maybe he was afraid I was going to steal his job, as you say, right, or something.

00:39:50.451 --> 00:39:56.467
So he didn't want to tell me anything, he didn't show me anything and I was just asking him and I got the feeling, okay, he doesn't want to tell me this.

00:39:56.467 --> 00:40:08.061
And then, you know, we had a problem with the machine and it didn't work with and I the environment was new for me and I didn't know what to do and I was just sitting there like a, like a moron, right, and I felt he's not going to tell him anything.

00:40:08.061 --> 00:40:09.603
I'm probably going to have to do this by my own.

00:40:09.603 --> 00:40:11.045
Then I went to the toilet.

00:40:11.045 --> 00:40:15.829
When I came back, he had fixed the machine and I was like, what did you do?

00:40:15.829 --> 00:40:16.690
And he didn't want to tell me.

00:40:16.690 --> 00:40:18.492
He didn't want to tell me what he had done to fix it.

00:40:18.492 --> 00:40:36.586
And I was like, okay, and you know they didn't use version control or anything, so I couldn't check what the change had been since.

00:40:36.708 --> 00:40:43.351
You know, I had this discussion with with these people and you know I'm I'm not avoiding conflicts, I'm so in Sweden you generally avoid conflicts.

00:40:43.351 --> 00:40:44.141
I'm not like that.

00:40:44.141 --> 00:40:50.481
I just asked like, okay, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna use the words I used there because they're not very nice.

00:40:50.481 --> 00:40:54.708
But I really kind of asked, in a not so nice way why are you doing this?

00:40:54.708 --> 00:40:55.489
Why don't you know?

00:40:55.489 --> 00:40:59.784
And and basically it was like no way in this industry you don't do that, you don't share your knowledge.

00:40:59.784 --> 00:41:07.344
You know, because I basically what they said was I paid a lot of money and it took a lot of time for me to get here, right, and and I thought, yeah, but that's not good for the industry.

00:41:07.344 --> 00:41:10.612
You know, if the industry is going to improve, we have to share, and you know.

00:41:10.652 --> 00:41:20.221
And so, coming from the it industry, my whole career built on basically watching other people program, watching other people do stuff, right.

00:41:20.260 --> 00:41:46.722
So, okay, I have the books, I have the theory, but most of my knowledge has come from I mean, this sounds really stupid, right, I went to university, but the 99 of the knowledge that I'm actually using to build the stuff I'm building comes from YouTube videos or from open source projects and just other people discussing about software architecture and just you know this kind of things, and there was nothing like that in automation industry and that was kind of like the.

00:41:46.842 --> 00:41:51.853
You know, it was like this tiny, tiny bean that slowly grew and grew in my head that I have to do something.

00:41:51.853 --> 00:41:56.481
I have to do something about this and I'm not just going to be the one that complains, I'm going to do something about it.

00:41:56.481 --> 00:42:03.264
And and eventually I decided, like you know, back back off it's a fantastic platform, it's a great platform technically, it's great.

00:42:03.264 --> 00:42:16.525
You know, there's all these smart germans in feral, very clever people who, if anyone from back of feral watches this, hello, you're very clever, and everything but their achilles heel is, you know, training, kind of not training.

00:42:16.525 --> 00:42:22.996
I mean they have training courses but like their, their stuff on the web, it's kind of underwhelming that's a very important part I'm trying to have.

00:42:23.057 --> 00:42:24.041
It is very important.

00:42:24.101 --> 00:42:38.295
If you're gonna have a platform at all, you know you're gonna have to tell people how to use it and and and that was the big problem and and I think now you know it's been over three years since I published the whole Twinket series of videos, the whole course.

00:42:38.800 --> 00:42:43.467
You know it's been soon 2 million video views, so over 100,000 people watching it.

00:42:43.467 --> 00:43:01.032
I would say you know there was something missing there, right, there was something missing there, missing there, and and this was just my way to say that you know, ot could be, if you want to, a little bit more like the it industry, where it's like, okay, you know it's constantly improving, but people are sharing their knowledge and not just keeping it for themselves.

00:43:01.032 --> 00:43:03.362
It's like that's the biggest difference between it.

00:43:03.362 --> 00:43:05.936
It's not the technology in itself, right, I mean that's.

00:43:05.936 --> 00:43:07.543
There's a big difference in the applications.

00:43:07.543 --> 00:43:27.711
What we're doing instead of doing web shops, instead of doing medical instruments, then maybe we're doing factoring, but the biggest difference is in the philosophy of people's head of how you share the stuff you know, or the concept of open source has never been huge in one but has always been growing and getting traction in IT and there's many reasons for this.

00:43:27.981 --> 00:43:28.965
There's many reasons for this.

00:43:28.965 --> 00:43:34.443
I mean, one is technical in OT, because there's so many different platforms and they work completely different.

00:43:34.443 --> 00:43:50.563
It's mostly uh, the, the, the minds of people, like you know, and I literally made a video on youtube about open source because, you know, there was a discussion about open source and it was like, uh, yeah, I can't do this because it's gonna reduce my 401k.

00:43:50.563 --> 00:43:55.543
So I understand that has something with retirement to do in the us, right and and like all these things.

00:43:55.543 --> 00:43:58.751
Like, no, that's not how it works, you know, and and so.

00:43:58.751 --> 00:44:09.753
So that was the story kind of like you know, it was maybe not anger, but frustration over over the industry and I didn't like it and I thought, okay, before I die, I should do something.

00:44:09.753 --> 00:44:11.398
You know about it.

00:44:11.418 --> 00:44:18.224
So I guess we have that in common in being people that don't like to just complain about something with no.

00:44:18.224 --> 00:44:21.525
Then we need to do something about it.

00:44:21.525 --> 00:44:35.019
We may not solve the problem, but we can at least get ahead, do something, and we don't care about 401k maybe it's more important in the the states than than here in Europe.

00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:54.554
Maybe it is important yeah, it is important, because we don't get any kind of there's no, like there's no pension from there's no, guarantee, don't do open source, then don't do, because apparently if you do open source you lose everything that's what I learned and you know with with youtube.

00:44:54.554 --> 00:45:05.887
It's the worst thing with youtube are all the anonymous people, because then you see all this stuff unless your stock portfolio is just chock full of rockwell automation.

00:45:05.887 --> 00:45:09.559
How does using open source hurt your retirement?

00:45:10.001 --> 00:45:11.731
yeah, yeah, no, no, there was some.

00:45:11.731 --> 00:45:13.097
There were some really bad arguments.

00:45:17.347 --> 00:45:33.159
Yeah, they were not and they were not very hard to to debunk, so to speak, these right, yeah so what are some of the craziest um, I guess like uh, comments or things you've gotten about putting the content out there on YouTube.

00:45:33.159 --> 00:45:36.931
I'm sure there's plenty more people that will complain giving it for free.

00:45:37.681 --> 00:45:40.489
Yeah, I mean, unfortunately it's a little boring.

00:45:40.489 --> 00:45:41.766
Yeah, it's a little boring.

00:45:41.766 --> 00:45:50.170
Unfortunately, the most common one, number one, like with like 80% of stuff I get messages and stuff is like why did you put it out for free?

00:45:50.170 --> 00:45:54.903
You know, and this is both for this is both for the good and bad reasons.

00:45:54.903 --> 00:45:58.425
So the good reasons is, of course, like oh, my god, thank you very much, it's nice, but why do you do?

00:45:58.425 --> 00:46:02.346
I would never do it, but it's nice that you did it, because now I didn't have to pay anything to get this whole course.

00:46:02.346 --> 00:46:05.918
Thank you, thank you, but the there is even.

00:46:05.938 --> 00:46:13.193
Bring that up yeah just thank you yeah, exactly it's, but I can, I can still, I can still understand that because you know most.

00:46:13.193 --> 00:46:19.030
No, no, no worries, but there's a the I.

00:46:19.030 --> 00:46:20.672
This makes me, this makes me happy.

00:46:20.672 --> 00:46:20.893
You know.

00:46:20.893 --> 00:46:22.021
They give me this nice feedback.

00:46:22.021 --> 00:46:23.204
Thank you very much, and that's okay.

00:46:23.483 --> 00:46:29.903
But you know, if you get 1000 messages, and 990 of them are nice, those are not the ones you're gonna to remember.

00:46:29.903 --> 00:46:39.226
You're going to remember those 10 that you know write mean things and, and the mean things is, of course, the, the stuff that's no, actually they're.

00:46:39.226 --> 00:46:40.128
They're really mean.

00:46:40.128 --> 00:46:51.530
I mean, they're kind of like writing racist stuff, even like people are going to come from india now and take your course and and and compete with the, with with us here, and you know that.

00:46:51.530 --> 00:46:52.353
Why are we doing this now?

00:46:52.353 --> 00:47:00.347
We're going to get a mass in the flow of new programmers here, but if this is all you're offering, then maybe you deserve to be replaced.

00:47:00.347 --> 00:47:10.490
If your knowledge can be replaced with a YouTube course, which I don't think it can, it can't, because YouTube can only take a tiny, tiny piece.

00:47:10.960 --> 00:47:14.347
Because it's that easy to get visas.

00:47:14.989 --> 00:47:15.570
Yeah, that too.

00:47:15.570 --> 00:47:18.429
That too, Exactly, that too.

00:47:18.429 --> 00:47:20.867
No, so it's just one of the things.

00:47:20.867 --> 00:47:40.411
But people don't like it, I think, because maybe they paid a lot of money for a course and now it's available for free, and they, yeah, but again, this is a small fraction, so I'm trying to forget them, but of course, this is what sticks interesting, I mean it must be the same for you, right?

00:47:40.452 --> 00:47:42.222
you, I don't know, of course it.

00:47:42.222 --> 00:47:47.161
Maybe I'm just not a good person, because I'm trying to focus on the good things, but I don't I the.

00:47:47.382 --> 00:47:57.164
You know it's hard right to focus on the weird messages, but like not often and like usually it's just targeted at like one of us individually.

00:47:57.164 --> 00:48:07.460
So like yeah we're like whatever, and then we block them and like I definitely have a ton of people blocked, but like yeah, I just yeah it's percentage wise it's tiny.

00:48:07.460 --> 00:48:16.873
It's like one percent less than one percent yeah, but it's the same for me not to like it's more memorable like I really appreciate, I really appreciate.

00:48:16.893 --> 00:48:21.181
So we like to make songs, so if people are totally insane.

00:48:21.181 --> 00:48:42.563
So there was someone that was just like literally telling nikki that like she, that that he hated her because because her last name ends with an s and not a z and that that is some sort of vip status, and it was just like, so we made it into a song because that was the most absurd shit I've ever heard in my entire life.

00:48:42.563 --> 00:48:49.844
I'm like we had, and it was just like I hate you, like because you're a vip and like this other shit.

00:48:49.844 --> 00:48:50.045
This.

00:48:50.045 --> 00:48:55.746
It turned into a song because I was just like how do we make fun of how incredibly stupid this is?

00:48:56.288 --> 00:49:00.518
like you're giving me a great, fantastic idea.

00:49:00.518 --> 00:49:05.289
What I should do is I should tunnel all of this stuff because I have lots of material.

00:49:05.289 --> 00:49:12.282
I I should tell it I took screenshots of everything because I I did it for the reason, because I thought maybe this, I can use this for something.

00:49:12.501 --> 00:49:21.177
What I should do is I should make a video about it, just a video about all of this, or like auto-tune yourself singing the two of them.

00:49:21.460 --> 00:49:24.731
I'm going to have to invite you for the singing because I don't want to use my voice for the singing.

00:49:24.731 --> 00:49:25.965
I don't want to embarrass myself.

00:49:27.800 --> 00:49:28.985
Automation ladies is the last one.

00:49:31.240 --> 00:49:31.922
We will do it.

00:49:31.983 --> 00:49:33.126
Honestly, I okay.

00:49:33.126 --> 00:49:38.048
So, uh, I think it was last year or maybe the first year when we released automation ladies.

00:49:38.048 --> 00:49:40.014
We had just gotten.

00:49:40.014 --> 00:49:47.820
So an engineer that we met at automate yeah, the song for our show and stuff his name is, uh, sam james, and he's just awesome.

00:49:47.820 --> 00:49:48.643
Thank you, sam.

00:49:48.643 --> 00:49:56.025
And we just love nerding out with our friends like in it friends, meaning people that like we interact with on linkedin or whatever.

00:49:56.407 --> 00:50:26.981
Um, and I saw I think it was jordan yates was doing demo videos with omron at the time and these omron, like interns, ended up making more content similar to that and they had done this like kind of I don't remember if it was a parody or maybe it was just like a how-to demo or something, but I thought it would be fun to do some sort of collab where we would like release the videos but for it to be relevant to under automation ladies.

00:50:27.021 --> 00:50:47.905
I was like I bet we could use ai to make you look like a lady, so it would be like your video, but doctored up by us and then released, you know, as a funny version of your video, but still with the original intent that it shows the demo of how the robot works, and I thought this was hilarious and like I sent this like message was like hey, I have an idea, and they just thought I was insane.

00:50:47.905 --> 00:50:57.141
I think who did you send that to?

00:50:57.141 --> 00:51:00.170
I don't remember at this point who the person was, somebody, uh, I wouldn't want to call him out like this anyway.

00:51:00.170 --> 00:51:07.675
But yeah, it's fun to be able to find people that can take this stuff a little bit less seriously, um, and have some fun with it.

00:51:07.896 --> 00:51:11.085
So yeah throw us all your crazy ideas.

00:51:11.085 --> 00:51:14.193
We will probably immediately agree to collaborate with you, okay.

00:51:14.460 --> 00:51:19.471
Yeah, definitely no, I need to use this bad energy for something creative.

00:51:21.202 --> 00:51:38.552
What I did, and actually this is I was on a marketing round table with a group of companies in the industrial automation distribution space and they actually brought this up as an example and they asked me to tell them how I successfully handled this terrible comment that said I hate you.

00:51:38.552 --> 00:51:43.070
And what I did was I actually I didn't reply to that person at all but.

00:51:43.090 --> 00:51:59.489
I took a screenshot of the comments and I posted it separately, without tagging the person or anything, but I just made a joke of it and I was just like, hey, uh, watch, watch out, if you come to OT SkaterCon you might get so famous that you get these types of hater comments and you know that got a good amount of discussion.

00:51:59.489 --> 00:52:01.648
It was all positive.

00:52:01.648 --> 00:52:03.206
The song is so good.

00:52:03.788 --> 00:52:04.028
Yeah.

00:52:04.679 --> 00:52:06.065
And then somebody else made the song.

00:52:06.065 --> 00:52:08.291
Right, we didn't make the song, I didn't publish the song.

00:52:08.873 --> 00:52:15.103
Yeah, right, that's definitely the answer.

00:52:15.103 --> 00:52:16.509
Right, it's just like to take it and totally turn it into a joke.

00:52:16.509 --> 00:52:18.556
Like that just hurts them back, because they're like why are you laughing at me?

00:52:18.577 --> 00:52:27.923
but like, yeah, apparently, like I was, like I can do some vip shit yeah like generally, I've been a person in the past that used to care what people think about me.

00:52:27.923 --> 00:52:33.367
I always want to, you know, be likable and, you know, want to make sure I'm a people pleaser.

00:52:33.367 --> 00:52:44.532
So it would have, probably a few years ago, that would have hurt me really badly For someone on the internet to openly just say I hate you Literally the bridge, like there's a whole chorus or whatever.

00:52:44.599 --> 00:52:46.608
And then the bridge is I hate you.

00:52:49.746 --> 00:52:50.989
Yeah, it's not very constructive.

00:52:50.989 --> 00:52:54.143
It's not very constructive, it's so stupid.

00:52:54.505 --> 00:52:56.289
No, but it is like you do have to.

00:52:56.289 --> 00:53:00.304
If you put yourself out there, you have to have a bit of a thick skin for this kind of stuff, right, yeah?

00:53:00.806 --> 00:53:04.744
yeah, yeah, that's right, and this is something you learn from being a content creator.

00:53:04.744 --> 00:53:11.748
I would say yeah, and especially if you put it outside, on outside linkedin linkedin you at least got a name or on a face on youtube, you don't.

00:53:13.010 --> 00:53:14.634
I honestly don't like.

00:53:14.634 --> 00:53:16.476
We have a YouTube channel that we've.

00:53:16.476 --> 00:53:20.344
We stream, sometimes directly to YouTube just for the sake of you know why not?

00:53:20.344 --> 00:53:22.554
It's a setting in the software.

00:53:22.554 --> 00:53:26.262
We can stream to our channel, but we haven't done anything yet.

00:53:26.262 --> 00:53:31.342
We actually just have a team member join that is wanting to learn how to do YouTube stuff.

00:53:31.342 --> 00:53:34.559
So I was like, hey, you can use our stuff to learn or do whatever.

00:53:34.559 --> 00:53:40.835
Her name is Lynn, but we haven't really had any exposure on on youtube outside of linkedin.

00:53:40.835 --> 00:53:42.739
So actually now that scares me a little.

00:53:42.739 --> 00:53:47.679
We might get like the general meanness of the internet now versus like our sanitized scrub.

00:53:47.739 --> 00:53:48.922
But we won't see it.

00:53:48.922 --> 00:53:51.876
See what we read it we won't read it.

00:53:51.876 --> 00:53:58.320
That's true, I guess we could just stay yeah, I was specifically asked not to be even sent it.

00:53:58.320 --> 00:54:00.335
I don't want a notification.

00:54:00.951 --> 00:54:01.753
Tell me I'm a troll.

00:54:03.610 --> 00:54:05.577
I got called Larry the cable guy.

00:54:06.289 --> 00:54:06.992
Okay is that an?

00:54:07.052 --> 00:54:07.393
insult.

00:54:07.393 --> 00:54:11.876
I guess, I don't know.

00:54:12.451 --> 00:54:16.137
They're like okay, larry, and I'm like okay, well, no, it looks like we are actually.

00:54:16.137 --> 00:54:23.996
We've almost been recording for an hour, so did you have any other burning questions, allie, that you wanted to make sure to ask before I start wrapping things up?

00:54:24.449 --> 00:54:44.221
Yeah, the one thing that like I know about, like Beckhoff, is that for a while or in the past, people were like, oh my God, they were freaking out about and this is why maybe because you have an it background like you didn't care and you just went like full force into it.

00:54:44.221 --> 00:55:00.356
But, um, like pc based uh, plcs, and at the at the time, like of now, like it's been proven, like like even germany has proven it, like it's it's gonna work, uh, but in the past, like people were freaking out, they're just like I would never do that because, yeah, because of that.

00:55:00.356 --> 00:55:03.166
So like how, like, uh, I guess.

00:55:03.166 --> 00:55:05.692
Do you have any comments about like that transition?

00:55:06.112 --> 00:55:15.650
yeah, people being like I, I I understand the worrying and I can relate to it as well, uh, but you know it's it's a little bit like we know, with great power comes great responsibility.

00:55:15.891 --> 00:55:19.969
I think who did say that spider-man said that to his uncle right in the spider-man movie.

00:55:20.590 --> 00:55:38.442
You can screw up badly, uh, but it takes quite a lot and I can just tell from my own experience, because that's the only thing I can tell with from my own experience and my uh close uh co-workers and my close the, the contacts I've been working with, that has never been a problem.

00:55:39.110 --> 00:55:47.737
So I know I mean you can screw it up, but you can screw it up in such a way that I would screw it up anyway on a traditional PLC as well.

00:55:47.737 --> 00:56:08.177
So I know there's some concerns with certain things like memory leaks and things like that, but the PLC part of that, so kind of like using the traditional PC stuff in a PLC might have some risks, and that's also from the OT security stuff and also from OT security.

00:56:08.177 --> 00:56:14.775
But I haven't really never done a comparison and the reason for that is that this has never been a problem for me.

00:56:14.775 --> 00:56:24.679
And then I'm including PLCs that I had deployed and that are still running for over 10 years that are PC-based and have never crashed a single time.

00:56:24.679 --> 00:56:28.769
So I don't know, it's like it's always a big discussion.

00:56:28.769 --> 00:56:34.742
It's just I'm not going into them because it kind of always ends up like a small sandbox thing for children.

00:56:38.090 --> 00:56:38.793
It changed over time.

00:56:38.793 --> 00:56:42.003
But there's all this legacy, like knowledge, and people are like remembering and and saying that.

00:56:42.003 --> 00:56:43.530
So it's a lot of word of mouth.

00:56:43.530 --> 00:56:55.579
So I hear from people that, yes, are older, they have a lot of word of mouth referencing of, like that stuff scaring them or at least, or not working or whatever.

00:56:55.980 --> 00:57:27.778
But I think it did change and I think that's why, like I ask you and you're like, ah, 10 years later it hasn't done anything, like it's perfectly good, I trust it yeah, and, and, and yeah and I've seen yeah, yeah, but again, I'm, I'm using, even if there is something that the advantages of PC-based control is so major that I'm using it for those reasons and I'm trying to focus on that instead, and that's what has been bringing me value and what's been bringing my customers a lot of value.

00:57:27.778 --> 00:57:33.141
And yeah, that's waiting much, much more.

00:57:33.289 --> 00:57:35.418
That's a good answer.

00:57:36.329 --> 00:57:40.612
I'll give a big shout out to back off as well, because they are sponsoring ot skater con.

00:57:40.833 --> 00:57:53.893
They're feeding us also make sure to give uh our attendees the link to your youtube channel so that they know that they can get free training there, uh, and a whole lot of uh, good content.

00:57:53.893 --> 00:57:55.938
So, with that in mind, what?

00:57:55.938 --> 00:58:04.530
Where can people, where should people, reach you or follow you if they want to either learn from you, um, see what you're up to, or work with your company?

00:58:04.530 --> 00:58:07.878
Tell us, like I guess, what, who's your ideal client for your company?

00:58:08.621 --> 00:58:15.617
yeah, I mean this is gonna this is gonna sound super counter, counter productive now, but I don't want more work.

00:58:15.617 --> 00:58:16.739
I have too much to do.

00:58:16.739 --> 00:58:23.800
So I'm trying to hire and and until I manage to find someone appropriate, I don't want any more work.

00:58:23.800 --> 00:58:26.731
So it's like it's a first world problem.

00:58:26.731 --> 00:58:36.715
That's funny and and for everyone else that wants stuff from me, you can get it for free on my youtube channel a whole course on twinka3 plc.

00:58:36.715 --> 00:58:39.179
Back of programming I'm giving it away for free it's.

00:58:39.418 --> 00:58:39.780
I spent.

00:58:39.780 --> 00:58:43.110
I, yeah, I spent over 700 hours making that course.

00:58:43.110 --> 00:58:50.050
Uh, it's 14 hours of material, very, very, you know, thorough, for trinket on all kinds of layers.

00:58:50.050 --> 00:58:53.579
Go there, it's for free and you don't have to contact me, you don't have to register.

00:58:53.579 --> 00:58:54.490
It's on youtube.

00:58:54.490 --> 00:58:56.173
You can enable your ad blocker.

00:58:56.173 --> 00:58:57.817
Then I get absolutely zero money.

00:58:57.817 --> 00:58:58.858
That's fine for me.

00:58:58.878 --> 00:59:11.014
I couldn't care less like I just figured out who to delegate that to in my own company yeah, like courtney, you're learning back off so we actually have an ask for you, jacob.

00:59:11.335 --> 00:59:22.074
Uh, maybe in the future, uh, as our team starts to do a little bit more on youtube, maybe we can hit you up for some tips and something along those lines, since you've been doing it for a while.

00:59:23.458 --> 00:59:36.000
Definitely, and of course I'm also out after a new type of content on my YouTube channel, so if we can have someone, oh, we should have an automation lady do your course and then make videos about what they're learning with your course.

00:59:36.000 --> 00:59:50.791
Whether that videos about what they're learning with your course, whether that's courtney or elena yeah, I, I I have a list of specific topics I would love to cover and, you know, a focused topic on something where we do it together would be, for example, a great idea.

00:59:50.851 --> 00:59:55.152
I think that would be appreciated okay, well then, um audience if you're listening, but mostly the three of us.

00:59:55.152 --> 00:59:58.139
Uh, let's make a collaboration like that happen soon.

00:59:58.139 --> 01:00:01.733
I love that People.

01:00:01.733 --> 01:00:06.804
What is the URL for your YouTube channel or the handle or the channel name?

01:00:08.150 --> 01:00:10.780
It's just my first and last name together Jakob Zagatowski.

01:00:10.780 --> 01:00:15.672
So youtubecom slash Jakob Zagatowski we will have.

01:00:15.733 --> 01:00:18.920
Your guest profile is on automationladiesio.

01:00:18.920 --> 01:00:29.574
So if you guys listen to this episode and you're not quite sure how to spell his name or you can't find it with a simple Google search which I'm sure if you search Twin Cat YouTube, jacob, whatever, you'll find it.

01:00:29.574 --> 01:00:39.621
But those links will be there in your profile and you are welcome to update that profile at any time in the future, as well as if you ever do decide that you want additional work once you've scaled up.

01:00:39.621 --> 01:00:51.005
We do know this problem, in fact, as we're currently scaling PCE to handle a lot more business, as PCE has grown as well quite rapidly.

01:00:51.005 --> 01:00:55.201
Sometimes it's better to say no to work than take on work that you can't handle.

01:00:56.356 --> 01:01:15.038
And I feel guilty about it because you know you read about all the people getting fired and getting laid off and you know it and then I just feel guilty right now, why you know okay, that showcases some of the benefits of your abundance mentality, which is putting that content out there doesn't in fact mean less work for you.

01:01:15.038 --> 01:01:19.764
It proves it, absolutely, absolutely.

01:01:19.764 --> 01:01:24.932
And that's how it works in life in general, not just for creating content and sharing knowledge.

01:01:24.932 --> 01:01:26.036
This is how it works.

01:01:26.972 --> 01:01:32.619
You put things out there and the more things come to you, so thank you so much for taking the time to be on the show.

01:01:33.349 --> 01:01:34.514
Thank you very much for inviting me.

01:01:34.514 --> 01:01:35.257
I really appreciate it.

01:01:35.449 --> 01:01:41.396
And I hope this is one of the first of many times that we get a chance to create some content together.

01:01:42.273 --> 01:01:46.835
And I hope that we can do it in the other direction as well, because I would really love to have something on my channel as well.

01:01:46.835 --> 01:01:49.557
With you, great to meet you, Jacob.