Exploring Cybersecurity in Industrial Automation w/ Michael Grollmus

WEBVTT

00:00:00.420 --> 00:00:02.466
pre-recorded episode of Automation Ladies.

00:00:02.466 --> 00:00:14.826
It is June, but we may actually have this conversation come out in season four, which should be sometime later this year, and if you're listening to this way, later it's 2024.

00:00:14.826 --> 00:00:21.487
But yes, we are getting close to end of our recording season here for season three.

00:00:21.487 --> 00:00:25.277
We've hit 31 episodes in season three already.

00:00:25.338 --> 00:00:34.040
somehow, ali, I had no idea, uh that's awesome our team is telling us time to take a break, um, but we love what we do.

00:00:34.040 --> 00:00:40.226
We get to talk to so many great people in the industry that it's very hard to put the breaks, pump the brakes on having these conversations.

00:00:40.226 --> 00:00:48.585
Uh, so I'm very excited to today kind of hopefully leave most of the talking again to ali um and our wonderful guest today, michael.

00:00:48.585 --> 00:00:51.472
Uh, how do you pronounce your name?

00:00:51.472 --> 00:00:53.482
I should stop doing it because I might do it wrong.

00:00:53.723 --> 00:01:01.106
Um, we should just ask you on air you pronounce your name for us yeah, at first, thank you very much that you invite me to to your podcast.

00:01:01.106 --> 00:01:13.750
So, um, and my, my sure name, uh, I pronounce it grolmoose, yeah, grolmoose, uh, but, but, uh, I, I think it's, it's quite easy.

00:01:13.750 --> 00:01:20.805
So you call me michael and uh, then you don't have to challenge uh with my sure name yeah.

00:01:20.825 --> 00:01:27.489
So I did that with kathy rinny for many years, thinking I just never said her last name and then it took me two years to realize I was saying it wrong.

00:01:27.489 --> 00:01:30.668
So now I try to just confront that challenge head on.

00:01:30.668 --> 00:01:33.625
Yeah, is it actually Rinney?

00:01:33.625 --> 00:01:34.950
It's Rinney.

00:01:34.950 --> 00:01:37.046
Both of us were getting it wrong Wow.

00:01:37.046 --> 00:01:38.079
Yeah, and.

00:01:38.079 --> 00:01:45.368
I also learned not to take my cues on how to say names from Allie, because I'm in the substance too.

00:01:46.001 --> 00:01:54.903
Yeah, well, I was gonna say Growlmoose, but yeah, growlmoose okay, but for me, names for me are also a very big challenge.

00:01:54.903 --> 00:02:08.812
So this is also one thing because I love industry automation, because there are deep in it one and zero and I don't have to spell any names.

00:02:08.812 --> 00:02:12.430
This is one reason because I love it.

00:02:13.680 --> 00:02:15.287
Yeah, no room for interpretation.

00:02:15.287 --> 00:02:19.945
There it's a universal language, and where are you?

00:02:20.447 --> 00:02:37.480
Michael, well, I'm in Germany, quite in the middle of germany, uh, near frankfurt, um, also a big city in germany, it's uh mainz, but I think uh, it's not so international like frankfurt.

00:02:37.480 --> 00:02:41.867
So I think, munich, frankfurt, hamburg, uh, these are the cities.

00:02:41.867 --> 00:02:57.824
Well, everybody knows, when you talk about Germany, or Nuremberg, the SPS fair, of course, the Hannover fair, hannover, right, of course.

00:02:58.740 --> 00:03:00.164
Is there a lot of manufacturing there?

00:03:01.127 --> 00:03:01.810
An automatic what?

00:03:03.420 --> 00:03:06.550
Are you near a lot of manufacturing where you are in Germany?

00:03:07.281 --> 00:03:26.176
I think we have a lot of manufacturers around us the nearest pharmacy, böhringer, ingelheim, sanofi, aventus, but also car manufacturers.

00:03:26.176 --> 00:03:38.632
So you have a lot of factories, plants around you in Germany, because Germany also is a quite small country.

00:03:38.632 --> 00:03:43.907
So everything is near instead of uh, so it's it's.

00:03:43.907 --> 00:03:49.424
Everything is near, yeah, instead of the us, yeah, it's.

00:03:49.424 --> 00:03:51.848
It's a bit, a little bit different, different.

00:03:51.889 --> 00:03:58.139
So you have a short ways yeah yeah, how long does it take to get to like siemens headquarters?

00:03:59.181 --> 00:04:00.323
uh, so so to nuremberg.

00:04:00.323 --> 00:04:05.771
Uh, I think it's about a little bit over three hours with the car.

00:04:05.771 --> 00:04:08.055
Okay, yeah.

00:04:08.480 --> 00:04:09.887
And how many times have you been there?

00:04:12.262 --> 00:04:25.149
Sometimes, not so often my brother is there quite often because they create the tier selection tool for Siemens and so they have a lot of meetings with Siemens.

00:04:25.149 --> 00:04:27.526
We are a partner.

00:04:27.526 --> 00:04:54.096
But I'm not so often in Nuremberg but I visit in Frankfurt the Siemens office, yeah, the office there, and so I think every two months I visit a Siemens office or a little bit, a small fair.

00:04:54.096 --> 00:05:02.870
So we talk a lot with Siemens, or Siemens come also to us and we talk about new stuff and so on.

00:05:02.870 --> 00:05:30.108
So this is also one of the challenges that we knew the newest things which are already there from Siemens and which will come in the future, so that we can say our customers okay, well, maybe have a look at this part, go this way, because the future will come and then you can use the new function, use the new benefits.

00:05:31.379 --> 00:05:38.211
Last week I have a call with one of Siemens promoter for the new S7-1200.

00:05:38.211 --> 00:05:52.350
So he explained to me what's new in the new hardware and I hope at the end of the year I will have one of the new controllers on my desk.

00:05:52.350 --> 00:05:57.607
Nice, because I see it in your background.

00:05:57.607 --> 00:05:58.548
There there's a S7.

00:05:58.548 --> 00:06:00.973
1200.

00:06:00.973 --> 00:06:01.855
, 1500.

00:06:02.315 --> 00:06:03.177
1200.

00:06:03.177 --> 00:06:07.571
I was going to ask you do you do any work with back off?

00:06:08.762 --> 00:06:11.105
yes, also, I'm myself.

00:06:11.105 --> 00:06:16.374
I'm not a back off expert, uh, but but we have uh experts for back off.

00:06:16.374 --> 00:06:18.622
Uh, back off isn't grown up.

00:06:18.622 --> 00:06:38.081
Uh, poc manufacturer and uh, so you, I think if you work in germany with industry automation, then then you have to handle with back off also in the future and and kuka, even though now that's chinese.

00:06:38.081 --> 00:06:41.326
Uh kuka uh, interesting question.

00:06:41.326 --> 00:06:47.754
Kuka crumbs comesKA comes from the car manufacturer VW.

00:06:47.754 --> 00:06:50.617
Vw built KUKA.

00:06:50.617 --> 00:06:57.853
Then KUKA split to an own factory, to an own company.

00:06:59.480 --> 00:06:59.641
And.

00:07:00.302 --> 00:07:08.084
I think four or five years ago, a Chinese holding by a cooker, and so now it's Chinese.

00:07:10.600 --> 00:07:12.968
But still manufactured in Germany?

00:07:12.968 --> 00:07:15.312
Or did they move production over to China?

00:07:15.312 --> 00:07:17.081
Do you know Not that?

00:07:17.081 --> 00:07:19.110
You need to be a spokesperson here.

00:07:19.783 --> 00:07:22.567
It depends, it depends which kind.

00:07:22.567 --> 00:07:27.192
So I think everyone knows German cars.

00:07:30.963 --> 00:07:31.685
The best cars.

00:07:31.685 --> 00:07:34.807
Just kidding, they're very good cars.

00:07:36.142 --> 00:07:39.427
It depends, yeah, it depends, what you look for.

00:07:39.427 --> 00:07:55.694
But there's a big challenge in Germany for the car manufacturers, also every manufacturer which needs high energy, because the energy costs are very high in Germany.

00:07:55.694 --> 00:08:03.233
But we also get new manufacturers from the pharma industry.

00:08:03.233 --> 00:08:10.024
I think Lily, ellie, I think it's america yeah yeah, thank you very much.

00:08:10.024 --> 00:08:10.985
Yeah, that's it.

00:08:10.985 --> 00:08:16.802
Uh, they built a complete new uh plant factory on a green field.

00:08:16.802 --> 00:08:20.468
So some goes away, some comes new.

00:08:20.468 --> 00:08:21.750
I think it's.

00:08:21.750 --> 00:08:24.814
It's every time the same same game.

00:08:24.834 --> 00:08:34.179
Yeah, okay well, ali, you know I'm gonna interrupt you and start by asking our standard question, so we can get this yes, sorry, yes a lot of our format.

00:08:34.179 --> 00:08:34.822
That's okay.

00:08:34.822 --> 00:08:44.025
So, michael um, can you tell us, give us an introduction to yourself and your background and kind of how you came to be in this industry, what you're doing now?

00:08:44.145 --> 00:08:59.842
because we really like to hear people's interesting stories, because I think when most of us started back in the day, there wasn't and this may have been different in Germany, but at least here in the US there isn't really a career path to controls engineering it kind of happens to people at some point in their careers.

00:08:59.842 --> 00:09:10.850
So if you can give us a little backstory and introduction to yourself and then maybe kind of end up like what your company does today, what you do, and then we'll have probably plenty of questions when the time comes.

00:09:11.500 --> 00:09:15.211
Spoiler alert he has a company, Okay.

00:09:16.140 --> 00:09:33.748
So the truth is there was no other chance for me Because my father has his company I was born in and no, just kidding, I also can do something else.

00:09:33.748 --> 00:09:37.708
But I was a little child Then I grew up with technical.

00:09:37.708 --> 00:09:43.644
My father loved technical and we play with the technical.

00:09:43.644 --> 00:10:01.410
Uh, when I was a teenager, uh, I, I earn a little bit money to help in the company, uh, to work with s7, uh, s5, s5, yeah, yeah, the the old, old stuff you have semen in your blood.

00:10:01.951 --> 00:10:04.014
Yeah, that's cool.

00:10:04.153 --> 00:10:06.897
I have no other choice, that's cool.

00:10:07.541 --> 00:10:09.288
But I love it.

00:10:09.288 --> 00:10:36.731
And well, there was a point where I decided I want to be one of the experts so that someone like you invite me to a podcast and then I can tell about my knowledge, about it and um, well it's, it grows up, I learned that I'm good in it and people say, oh, you're good, you can explain us.

00:10:36.731 --> 00:10:42.346
Um, also, I, I have a great chance, um, because there was a company.

00:10:42.346 --> 00:10:45.313
Um, my brother also worked in the company.

00:10:45.313 --> 00:10:46.666
We do this together.

00:10:46.666 --> 00:11:05.768
And also it's a great chance because in the industry automation you can earn good money and so you love it, you earn good money, you like it, so why should I do something else?

00:11:05.768 --> 00:11:07.751
The only thing it's.

00:11:07.751 --> 00:11:18.361
It's a little bit special when I talk, uh to to the family, when I want to explain my, my kids or my wife or my friends what are you doing?

00:11:18.361 --> 00:11:19.244
What's this?

00:11:19.323 --> 00:11:24.551
yeah, uh, it just goes like this yeah.

00:11:24.551 --> 00:11:27.414
Yeah, that sounds so boring.

00:11:27.414 --> 00:11:41.486
Yeah, yeah, I had a guy say that he saw my hat and it said process and controls engineering and his comment was that's so boring and I was just like, well, maybe to you.

00:11:41.486 --> 00:11:43.967
But, for me, it's how I eat.

00:11:45.981 --> 00:11:49.326
Yeah, that's true, I always try to explain.

00:11:49.326 --> 00:11:50.671
There's a Coca-Cola.

00:11:50.671 --> 00:11:55.932
Do you know how the Coke comes into the bottle?

00:11:55.932 --> 00:12:02.572
No, it's in the supermarket and I can buy it In the supermarket.

00:12:02.572 --> 00:12:11.649
But there's so much stuff behind it and this is the thing.

00:12:11.649 --> 00:12:13.145
I love it.

00:12:13.145 --> 00:12:17.392
It's also so different kinds.

00:12:17.392 --> 00:12:23.912
Sometimes you need a screwdriver when you open a cabinet control.

00:12:23.912 --> 00:12:26.580
Then you need your laptop to do software.

00:12:26.580 --> 00:12:33.251
Right now I I work a lot of industry, networks, cyber security.

00:12:33.251 --> 00:12:35.034
There are so a lot of stuff.

00:12:35.034 --> 00:13:17.948
One thing I I have to tell I was invited from from the german military for the biggest nato training for cyber security, um to um to consult the german military, um for the training, because in the training scenario there 1200, which simulates um energy plant and um my I I have to secure this and um well to to protect it for um hacker and help them pack it.

00:13:18.471 --> 00:13:22.160
Hey, I was so that you can protect it yeah, so that you can protect it.

00:13:22.181 --> 00:13:23.645
Well, the idea that, yeah, yeah, I was a part of the blue team.

00:13:23.666 --> 00:13:24.690
yeah, can protect it so that you can protect it.

00:13:24.710 --> 00:13:32.230
The idea that you, yeah, yeah, I was part of the blue team to protect it against the red team, and these are things.

00:13:32.230 --> 00:13:46.245
Well, they are so great so I can tell I was a part of the biggest NATO cybersecurity training and well, this is one thing, or one other things why I?

00:13:46.245 --> 00:13:47.730
I love industry automation.

00:13:48.091 --> 00:13:51.144
Yeah, so I'm gonna.

00:13:51.206 --> 00:13:57.062
It's not just a us thing, it's a world thing yeah, ali, I'm gonna chime in with a little personal story here.

00:13:57.703 --> 00:14:09.368
Um, my dad so I grew up in iceland but my dad's a control, he's an electrical engineer, he's a controls engineer but has never worked with like plcs, like siemens and stuff.

00:14:09.408 --> 00:14:17.720
He does microcontrollers um, because he started working for an oem and built the control system for their, their little machine and and so on.

00:14:17.720 --> 00:14:35.590
But at the time that he was doing that, back in the late 90s uh, I guess, or in the 90s, they were starting to do wireless telemetry and monitoring weather stations and monitoring fishing vessels, and so remote monitoring was kind of starting up at that time.

00:14:35.590 --> 00:14:49.370
And so he was able to go I think it was EU Fisheries Commission that was trying to implement some technology, standardize something to where they could track the boats and their safety and different things like that.

00:14:49.370 --> 00:15:01.687
And so my dad got invited to be part of some EU commission or some sort of cooperation like this NATO thing, and he represented Iceland or maybe some of the telco companies.

00:15:01.687 --> 00:15:08.985
He was working with his employer, something of that nature, but that's actually what got him in touch with Rakel, which is a UK company.

00:15:08.985 --> 00:15:15.707
Then it ended up hiring him to the UK and then bringing us to the US.

00:15:16.890 --> 00:15:17.312
Nice.

00:15:17.720 --> 00:15:27.827
Being involved in controls and these multinational kind of cooperations around standards or things that are critical in our world.

00:15:27.827 --> 00:15:40.932
If you get involved in those sorts of things, they can lead to great opportunities and in our case, I don't know that we would have ever moved to the US if it hadn't been for my dad being involved in that sort of situation.

00:15:40.932 --> 00:15:42.980
He's emerging technologies.

00:15:43.181 --> 00:16:04.307
He's also an engineer that was found to be good at explaining things to non-engineers which is a huge skill set, I think, to be able to teach customer facing when you also know what's going on behind the scenes but I think it's also a good example that knowledge opens the door in the whole world.

00:16:04.548 --> 00:16:10.725
Yeah, this is also one thing uh I I fight for.

00:16:10.725 --> 00:16:13.150
Yeah, uh, also I share my knowledge.

00:16:13.150 --> 00:16:25.611
Um, only, of course I I earn money with it, yeah, but also, uh, it's, it's a kind of mission, yeah, so, um, there is a in germany.

00:16:25.611 --> 00:16:39.734
You say, uh, if knowledge is is the only thing you, you share and you don't get a half, you double it yeah that's a good saying.

00:16:40.215 --> 00:16:44.381
You know, translate it to english is a little I had to think about that for a second.

00:16:44.562 --> 00:16:49.648
okay, maybe, maybe, then you can later you can give me the right translation.

00:16:49.648 --> 00:16:53.254
Yeah, can you say it in German?

00:16:53.254 --> 00:16:55.200
The original?

00:16:55.200 --> 00:17:01.919
Yeah, wissen ist das einzige, was sich verdoppelt, wenn du es teilst.

00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:05.415
Ai can translate.

00:17:05.415 --> 00:17:06.621
Yeah, yeah.

00:17:07.290 --> 00:17:09.720
We're German-speaking listeners, which I'm sure we have a few.

00:17:09.720 --> 00:17:14.877
We've definitely met quite a few Germans here in the US.

00:17:14.877 --> 00:17:26.038
The manufacturing sector is a strong knowledge transfer mechanism, I guess, between our great nations.

00:17:26.038 --> 00:17:31.657
I've worked for two German companies here in the US.

00:17:35.786 --> 00:17:37.496
I love so many German companies?

00:17:37.496 --> 00:17:54.200
I, I was gonna ask you a spicy question and we can like debate, like taking it out later, but like no, no, you have to ask does anyone in germany use alan bradley on purpose?

00:17:54.961 --> 00:18:02.103
uh, yeah, only if they have to but what's an instance of having to?

00:18:02.182 --> 00:18:03.326
is there such thing?

00:18:03.326 --> 00:18:10.260
Oh, maybe like a customer from outside of germany wants to maintain their own style.

00:18:10.320 --> 00:18:10.701
Is that the?

00:18:10.801 --> 00:18:13.752
only real reason why yeah, the, the.

00:18:13.813 --> 00:18:41.778
the normal thing is there is an um us company which comes to germany and in us they use uh rockwell automation and then you have to use it in germany also and some years later, uh, somebody goes to the control cabinet, threw, threw it out and built a back of Siemens or something, a European one.

00:18:41.778 --> 00:18:59.000
But the question I like the question because I also want to make the question like this so how many manufacturers use Siemens or backhoff in us?

00:19:00.201 --> 00:19:09.311
so very little, but it's growing and I think that that like that's kind of what siemens is very interested in growing that as much as possible.

00:19:09.311 --> 00:19:17.144
Um, in the us they, they know that like we have our standard as Alan Bradley and and Rockwell.

00:19:17.144 --> 00:19:30.198
But there are a lot of companies that have been have got upset, perhaps for different reasons, maybe licensing, maybe you know this or that and so they have converted.

00:19:30.198 --> 00:19:43.720
And so I have heard even we could ask Alicia Lomas, I think she converted an entire I forgot maybe it's like a yogurt line, but like from alan bradley to siemens in the united states.

00:19:43.720 --> 00:19:47.294
So I mean it is a thing and like as much.

00:19:47.294 --> 00:19:50.845
I mean we're, we're big enough and we have stuff from everywhere.

00:19:50.845 --> 00:20:14.049
So we have japanese plcs, we have korean plcs I work with, you know, Korean PLC manufacturers, so we do have so much extra like coming in that like it is a, it is an open market and like, even though we do kind of have, you know, a winner of that market which is an American manufacturer, and so they are the strongest in North America.

00:20:14.049 --> 00:20:15.131
And so they are the strongest in North America.

00:20:15.152 --> 00:20:22.201
That doesn't mean that like and that a lot of companies aren't moving, but also just machinery that comes from another place.

00:20:22.201 --> 00:20:33.734
If you buy a German machine, unless you pay them really good to like upgrade to the Alan Bradley you want, you may just take it with the Siemens that's in there and we do have.

00:20:33.734 --> 00:20:37.480
That's the second most common programmer in the U?

00:20:37.480 --> 00:20:37.780
S.

00:20:37.780 --> 00:20:42.500
I mean, obviously everyone can service Alan Bradley here, like our, our engineers.

00:20:42.500 --> 00:20:49.281
But a lot of our engineers, maybe like 30%, can service Siemens.

00:20:49.281 --> 00:20:51.948
Okay so, so it's just.

00:20:51.948 --> 00:20:53.351
But that's the selling point.

00:20:53.351 --> 00:20:57.382
That like hurts Siemens is there's a lot less people to service it.

00:20:57.382 --> 00:21:00.500
Where you are there's no one to service Alan Bradley.

00:21:00.650 --> 00:21:05.261
So you might be worth some money in Germany as an Alan Bradley person.

00:21:05.261 --> 00:21:08.259
But, like, if you know Siemens, that doesn't matter.

00:21:08.259 --> 00:21:16.256
But you come here Siemens like can make you good money because there's a lot of places that do have it.

00:21:16.256 --> 00:21:30.227
But I've also heard in the past that people that are experts at Rockwell and Allen Bradley when they take on Siemens projects, they usually lose money.

00:21:30.227 --> 00:21:39.564
It's traditionally because they don't have all that experience, like unless it's someone who's successfully executed multiple Siemens projects.

00:21:39.564 --> 00:21:43.749
You end up with with people losing money.

00:21:43.970 --> 00:21:51.160
And then the other issue that has always been talked about in the U S against Siemens is the support.

00:21:51.160 --> 00:22:03.144
So I bet in in Germany the support is really good, but outside of Germany because there isn't as many places in the US to even support that they would call and they just don't get help.

00:22:03.144 --> 00:22:19.359
And so that becomes a very negative to the customers.

00:22:19.359 --> 00:22:31.188
Where you know, when they redid TIA Portal, they went and asked you know the integrators and the programmers what do you want?

00:22:31.188 --> 00:22:35.317
What would make you like this more or make it easier for whatever?

00:22:35.317 --> 00:22:41.809
So they got feedback from the integrators and from the programmers and yeah.

00:22:41.990 --> 00:22:45.035
So I wish more companies would do that, because I don't feel that.

00:22:45.035 --> 00:22:53.069
Yeah, rockwell does that as often as they could, but at the same time Rockwell still committed to the success of you know, it's American partners.

00:22:53.069 --> 00:22:54.910
But yeah, there's definitely.

00:22:54.910 --> 00:23:22.902
You know they don't want to admit that, but, like every now and then, they'll lose a deal and they'll just not a new, a new, uh, a new plant may not be put in with alan bradley because and that might be siemens- yeah um, and yeah, even their dcs pcs7, I've you know yeah even me in the uS like have been trained on PCS7, so that means something yeah um, even though I've never executed a project on that.

00:23:22.942 --> 00:23:28.496
So that's my long-winded answer for that sorry so, so also, it's uh.

00:23:28.596 --> 00:23:29.698
The answer is uh.

00:23:29.778 --> 00:23:40.334
Missing of knowledge, yeah, and also support for the manufacturing, yeah we actually one of our earliest episodes in season one we talked with aaron prather.

00:23:40.334 --> 00:23:53.534
Um, he now works for astm international, which is a standards organization for robotics, but at the time he was at fedex and he mentioned that, for instance, they executed a large project.

00:23:53.534 --> 00:24:08.580
Um that they had in the us was all allen badly and in europe they spec'd all siemens because they needed their local technicians and plant, you know, people to be able to support the stuff, and here we still have uh.

00:24:08.580 --> 00:24:19.276
It's harder to find a siemens uh distributor and one that has a lot of expertise and a lot of knowledge and a lot of capacity, as well as just technicians that are trained on it.

00:24:20.531 --> 00:24:23.635
So I have to come to US to solve this problem.

00:24:23.635 --> 00:24:27.489
Yes, yes, yes, come on over.

00:24:27.489 --> 00:24:29.237
I go and ask my wife.

00:24:29.237 --> 00:24:32.258
Yeah, ask her if she wants to.

00:24:32.258 --> 00:24:37.838
So I don't think so that I will come to you.

00:24:37.838 --> 00:24:44.077
Come on over, but it's quite interesting.

00:24:44.077 --> 00:24:48.970
So it's a thing of the national.

00:24:48.970 --> 00:25:02.277
So in America, allen Bradley, in Europe Siemens, but also Schneider Electrics, also in Africa, schneider is very big.

00:25:02.277 --> 00:25:14.217
If you go to Asia, especially China, there's Siemens, also very big business, and of course the Japanese Mitsubishi and so on.

00:25:14.217 --> 00:25:20.692
They, they have also a lot of experience with their own controllers and so on.

00:25:21.114 --> 00:25:32.036
Siemens makes like plc's just for china that they don't sell outside of china, but those machines end up in the us anyway.

00:25:32.036 --> 00:25:40.354
So we either take it out or like translate the Chinese symbols inside because it's like an N7 300 or something like we.

00:25:40.354 --> 00:25:42.357
We see those randomly.

00:25:42.357 --> 00:25:43.359
We're like what is this?

00:25:43.359 --> 00:25:47.954
So, yeah, they're not supposed to leave, but they're.

00:25:47.954 --> 00:25:51.063
They have a hard time keeping it from leaving.

00:25:52.510 --> 00:26:05.076
Yeah, and I think to solve this problem, I think standardization yeah and uh, there's also one thing I want to talk about you, uh, maybe opcua, yeah.

00:26:05.076 --> 00:26:14.057
So uh, I I love opcua because it's it doesn't depend which um vendor you use.

00:26:14.057 --> 00:26:18.085
Uh, it works with, I also think, with Rockwell, or.

00:26:20.394 --> 00:26:25.750
I don't know Everyone, including Rockwell, Okay perfect, yeah, and so it does, it does yeah.

00:26:26.069 --> 00:26:40.740
Well, and this is one thing I love OPC UA because it's simple, it works, it doesn't matter which kind of controller you use, and I think this is also one thing for the future.

00:26:40.740 --> 00:26:46.702
So every customer I ask how do you get your information out of your PLC?

00:26:46.702 --> 00:26:50.599
And they say, well, I use this, I program this and I use this.

00:26:50.599 --> 00:26:53.535
And they say, no, please use OPC UA.

00:26:53.535 --> 00:26:54.617
This is the future.

00:26:54.617 --> 00:26:57.182
No, please use OPC UA, this is the future.

00:26:57.182 --> 00:27:03.740
Maybe in the future we go to the field level where we use the field bus technology.

00:27:03.740 --> 00:27:12.301
Maybe OPC UA TSN in the future we have only one field bus for every controller.

00:27:12.301 --> 00:27:14.577
But we will see what the future will bring.

00:27:16.275 --> 00:27:20.494
Do you have any other future predictions or trends that you're seeing that you think are gonna take hold?

00:27:21.998 --> 00:27:47.342
uh, well, um, they're, they are so, or, I think the the biggest challenge is that there are so many challenges, so that you, that you find people to solve the challenges a little bit and I see it in Germany especially, or in Europe, I think maybe you have the same problems to find employees.

00:27:47.342 --> 00:27:50.897
It's very, very hard.

00:27:50.897 --> 00:27:59.911
Every customer I talk we look for for maintenance guys, for programming guys uh, we do.

00:27:59.911 --> 00:28:04.640
You know what a poc is perfect here, you can start tomorrow.

00:28:04.640 --> 00:28:05.682
Yeah, you're hired.

00:28:05.682 --> 00:28:11.676
Yeah, yeah, a little bit in this way, and I think this, this is, uh, the biggest challenge.

00:28:11.676 --> 00:28:16.463
And then, um, you have so many challenges, you get new.

00:28:16.463 --> 00:28:22.758
Now the word is missing.

00:28:22.758 --> 00:28:40.782
I skipped a sentence and I will come later to this but communication to get data, but to get the right data, because if you have data and you have many data, well, you need the right data.

00:28:41.750 --> 00:28:46.021
Also, for the future AI well, we will see what happens.

00:28:46.021 --> 00:29:01.878
Also, to use AI to generate code it's also a big thing, but it only works with standardization and there I, I know it from siemens, uh, from the customers there is no standardization and then ai would not be worked.

00:29:01.878 --> 00:29:30.501
Yeah, um, the big car, manifest car manufacturers well, they, they have a good standardization, um, bmw uh, for example, they're very good in it and they work really near together with Siemens also to develop new function for the TIA portal, and so there are so many things for the future.

00:29:30.501 --> 00:29:33.038
Cyber security is a big thing.

00:29:33.038 --> 00:29:52.893
If you look to the wars, um in in the near east, um, the infrastructure, uh, water supply in the ukraine, uh, there is a new kind of war and um, so you, you have to do something in your cyber security.

00:29:52.893 --> 00:30:03.218
Yeah, um well, I, I have uh, but it's a german youtube channel that I show some hacks, how you hack uh a seven.

00:30:04.359 --> 00:30:26.703
It's, it's so easy, yeah, it's so easy that's not good, but that's cool but I also show the solutions, yeah okay, good, there you go, so I actually was in san francisco a couple of weeks and I don't watch TV at home, like we have Netflix on the TV and apps, but I don't have just regular television with like commercials and news.

00:30:27.330 --> 00:30:46.377
So I turned on the TV in my hotel room and it was the local news on and one of the first stories that came up was a warning from the EPA, which is the Environmental Protection Agency here in the US, about a string of recent cyber attacks on water utilities and by Russian speaking hackers is how they put it.

00:30:46.377 --> 00:30:50.897
So I think they were trying to say it's the Russians, but we have no proof, but we know that they speak Russian.

00:30:50.897 --> 00:31:22.221
I don't know, I don't get into politics and of course we can't you know, but uh, I, that was just the local news, um, and it said this this warning study from the epa says that at least 70 percent of us water utilities are unwoefully unprepared for this kind of thing, and I'm not sure if these hackers are really if it's warfare in this case or it's just ransoming or whatever right, but the water, the utilities, are a huge target.

00:31:23.790 --> 00:31:29.083
And I think I mean it's kind of obvious like they're underfunded, they're outdated, they're critical.

00:31:29.083 --> 00:31:33.871
They're critical to people's health and safety and wellness and industry and everything Like.

00:31:33.871 --> 00:31:38.933
If our water supply goes out, I would say most of our manufacturing also goes out.

00:31:39.094 --> 00:31:44.232
So does you know almost everything else, but it's most of the time it's quite easy.

00:31:44.232 --> 00:31:51.251
Uh, the one question I ask, uh, my customers is uh, do you have a password on your plc?

00:31:51.251 --> 00:32:08.451
And I think over 80% said no and the other 20% yes, but it's every time the same One, two, three, four Like this.

00:32:08.451 --> 00:32:19.470
They didn't use password management tools for their OT infrastructure and it's so easy to solve this problem.

00:32:19.470 --> 00:32:31.282
But this is the kind where we are right now and the low fruit yeah, where we have to start.

00:32:31.282 --> 00:32:33.896
Yeah, low-hanging fruit, right.

00:32:34.029 --> 00:32:37.760
I just saw a video from our our friend, dave garcia at icon tech.

00:32:37.760 --> 00:32:51.093
Um, he sells some cyber security like ot equipment and he was just mentioning he had this conversation with the customer and he was bringing up this cyber security features like, hey, have you looked at the latest of this switch?

00:32:51.093 --> 00:32:58.721
Right, rather than buying the legacy model of of managed switch, have you looked at this one that includes cybersecurity features?

00:32:58.721 --> 00:33:04.917
And his customer said and it was probably a systems integrator or something he said no, my customer doesn't care.

00:33:05.990 --> 00:33:07.576
And he said oh, do you guys not discuss this?

00:33:07.576 --> 00:33:11.434
And he's like, yeah, well, the password is password and the admin is like.

00:33:11.434 --> 00:33:13.280
They don't even use it as a managed switch.

00:33:13.280 --> 00:33:17.173
They just rip Like if something breaks, they they replace it.

00:33:17.173 --> 00:33:19.076
They're not thinking about it.

00:33:19.076 --> 00:33:27.911
When it does come up, they avoid the issue yeah so I really don't know how you know, in the scenario of right, it's those people running the plant day to day.

00:33:27.911 --> 00:33:35.134
They don't have budget, they don't have time bringing the issue to them without an immediate resolution.

00:33:35.154 --> 00:33:43.646
Protection that doesn't cost money, probably you know they're not going to have time for it, but it's kind of a situation.

00:33:43.646 --> 00:33:46.819
The one thing is time, the other thing is knowledge.

00:33:46.819 --> 00:33:52.096
Also, there are so, so many old windows versions.

00:33:52.096 --> 00:33:57.435
Everybody say never change your running system.

00:33:57.817 --> 00:34:06.419
Yeah, don't touch it yeah it works and, uh well, time, money, uh, but also the knowledge.

00:34:06.419 --> 00:34:29.614
Yeah, this, this is a big thing and, um well, for, for the knowledge we work on, on a solution we create for the industry automation, a knowledge platform, a training platform, especially for the industry automation, is that in.

00:34:29.675 --> 00:34:30.036
English too.

00:34:30.036 --> 00:34:40.083
Yeah, we created in German and English Cool, and especially for Siemens and Backoff.

00:34:40.083 --> 00:34:48.083
And maybe you know Udemy, the learning platform.

00:34:48.083 --> 00:34:58.730
Yeah, the problem or not the problem, but on Udemy you get like on YouTube you get videos, you get PDFs, you get files to download.

00:34:58.730 --> 00:35:05.601
But for Siemens there's one challenge If you want to train with TIA portal, you have to install it.

00:35:05.601 --> 00:35:07.536
You need the license.

00:35:07.536 --> 00:35:16.380
For some basic things you can use trial license, but for other things there is no trial license available.

00:35:16.380 --> 00:35:20.076
Trial license, but for other things there is no trial trial license available.

00:35:20.076 --> 00:35:26.688
And here's the idea that we have virtual machines with digital twins to train.

00:35:26.688 --> 00:35:38.664
You only need a browser where you can use the virtual machine and to work with with the twin, to train with the twin, and this is one thing we are right now to start.

00:35:38.664 --> 00:35:46.601
So maybe you also will find the next month some information by LinkedIn.

00:35:47.882 --> 00:35:48.563
That's exciting.

00:35:48.563 --> 00:35:49.425
Give us up to date.

00:35:49.690 --> 00:35:55.302
Because, by the time we air this episode, you might already have it out.

00:35:55.302 --> 00:36:01.317
This episode, uh, you might already have it out, um, and so we can add it to your.

00:36:01.317 --> 00:36:14.773
You can update your guest profile, also on automationladiesio, with links to any of this stuff, so listeners if you're hearing this, um, and it's way past june, then we may have links in our show notes to where you can actually find this training platform.

00:36:14.773 --> 00:36:16.956
Um, if it's not, it's not public yet, right?

00:36:16.956 --> 00:36:19.280
Do you have a teaser or a website?

00:36:19.320 --> 00:36:22.030
where people can sign up like a waiting list or anything like that.

00:36:22.030 --> 00:36:37.567
Yeah, it's uh skillworkio, skill skilled or skill, skill, skill, like uh to have the skill and work dot io okay, s-k-i-l-l.

00:36:38.172 --> 00:36:41.617
W-o-r-k dot io skillwork dot io.

00:36:43.036 --> 00:36:50.956
Maybe this will solve the solution for the missing knowledge in the US, for Siemens and maybe for back off.

00:36:51.190 --> 00:36:54.338
Yeah, okay that captures a little bit.

00:36:54.338 --> 00:36:58.411
I would be surprised, though, if aging water utilities would be running.

00:36:58.411 --> 00:37:02.945
Any of them would be running on siemens or back off, uh, but you never know.

00:37:02.945 --> 00:37:07.257
Uh, I, I don't know what's uh, what's in siemens, yes, back off.

00:37:07.677 --> 00:37:26.510
No, yeah, siemens, maybe because different skids again, you never know where they came, where you're gonna get, like a skid that came from germany, yeah, or just europe, um, but I, I guess I'm like I used to work for a, uh, probat verka.

00:37:26.510 --> 00:37:41.789
They do coffee, um, and they are, they make coffee roasters, um, and so they have the US version of it Probat USA and they just used so many German companies.

00:37:41.789 --> 00:37:54.478
That's how I learned about all the German automation companies there are and there's so many, and even in the beginning, like we were using Phoenix Contact as part of our standard and then I learned about Wago.

00:37:55.914 --> 00:38:12.913
You used the PLcs from them also not their plcs okay just everything else in the panel, like this phoenix contact, and then you show alan bradley in there okay, okay um, but the first time I saw like those push-in connectors and I really loved um that.

00:38:13.153 --> 00:38:45.543
You know, those terminal blocks um, those famous terminal blocks um mer mer electronic yeah um, there's just so many like festo, um kuka, um yeah, just really cool companies um that do make amazing products and all come from germany yeah, and in germany we have a lot of we call it the hidden champions, yeah, and also in industry automation, balof, sick, sensors.

00:38:46.445 --> 00:38:52.661
There are so many and well, I think they have very, very good products.

00:38:52.661 --> 00:38:59.989
But also, of course, I think Keyence is US or Keyence is Japanese.

00:38:59.989 --> 00:39:05.679
Okay, yeah, of course you have worldwide.

00:39:05.679 --> 00:39:12.219
But I think it's for German, it's something special that we are very good in this.

00:39:14.210 --> 00:39:48.914
Yeah, and it makes sense as you have been a powerhouse manufacturer for, for you know, the I guess the limited history that I know makes sense that you would be on the forefront of developing products for smart manufacturing because you're using them and then, of course, you have a lot of expertise and, and you know, just a huge emphasis always on engineering, and I think you guys have done a much better job of emphasizing the value of manufacturing as a profession, as a career, versus the US has kind of played the value of manufacturing as a profession, as a career, versus the US has kind of played the manufacturing is for people that aren't smart enough to go to college.

00:39:48.914 --> 00:39:49.777
Okay.

00:39:51.146 --> 00:39:52.291
We wrecked ourselves.

00:39:53.614 --> 00:40:04.054
Okay, yeah, and then people go to engineering school to be engineers, but they don't really know what all of the different engineering jobs that are available are, especially within manufacturing.

00:40:04.054 --> 00:40:07.318
Because, because we I don't know why we keep all of our plants very secret.

00:40:07.318 --> 00:40:11.552
Like you said, your friend, he just buys coca-cola from the grocery store.

00:40:11.552 --> 00:40:16.972
It has no idea how it's made, how the bottles filled, like why don't we all grow up knowing that?

00:40:16.972 --> 00:40:22.592
I don't, I don't understand, like why this, the how things are made, is so secret?

00:40:25.081 --> 00:40:39.469
I think it's to give away the secret recipe to show a bottle being filled and how cool that is well, well, I, I think, uh, if, uh, if you ask a little boy, what, what will he uh be in the future?

00:40:39.469 --> 00:40:58.797
Uh, policeman, fireman, fireman, yeah, if I ask my daughter, then she said something with horses, yeah, and I also tried to say industry automation, industry automation.

00:40:58.797 --> 00:41:02.630
And they said oh, that's boring, don't tell me about this.

00:41:02.630 --> 00:41:08.869
So my six-year-old daughter, on the other hand, desperately wants to be an engineer like ali.

00:41:08.869 --> 00:41:12.036
Oh, okay, okay, how old is she?

00:41:12.878 --> 00:41:16.048
she's six okay, okay, so my daughter is seven.

00:41:16.048 --> 00:41:18.592
I, I, I, I didn't.

00:41:18.952 --> 00:41:32.670
Yeah, she could do horse automation though we could get her hooked up with Vinny, my dad actually my dad worked on a project to upgrade the control system of a horse training machine.

00:41:32.670 --> 00:41:37.273
That is like a water treadmill for horses that she gets horses all day.

00:41:37.273 --> 00:41:41.032
She's got to do testing testing.

00:41:42.780 --> 00:41:45.472
I also the truth is, though, people should.

00:41:45.472 --> 00:41:50.936
I just want to make sure they know this is an option, and then they can choose horses or nursing or whatever they want.

00:41:50.936 --> 00:41:59.251
Right, not everybody's going to want to do this, but most people are not going to want to do it if they have no idea that it even exists, of course.

00:41:59.331 --> 00:42:02.576
Of course I also repair a running machine for horses.

00:42:02.576 --> 00:42:04.659
Where was the Siemens PLC inside?

00:42:04.659 --> 00:42:12.929
I also make a little HMI with unicorns to show her.

00:42:12.929 --> 00:42:17.856
Look, you can manufacture unicorns in this machine.

00:42:17.856 --> 00:42:23.878
But it was enough for her to decide this.

00:42:23.878 --> 00:42:27.396
But yeah, well, it's also right.

00:42:27.396 --> 00:42:31.704
It's so hidden you didn't see what's behind.

00:42:31.704 --> 00:42:53.905
And well, another thing is if I look to software developers for other systems, they earn more money than a software developer for PLC systems.

00:42:53.905 --> 00:43:12.429
And I think, if you look at the whole thing because you need more than to develop software for the PLC, you have to know the process, you have to know how it works, design control cabinet.

00:43:12.429 --> 00:43:20.992
So for me often the question why is there so a pay gap between?

00:43:20.992 --> 00:43:27.018
Yeah, but I have no answer.

00:43:27.039 --> 00:43:44.313
I think it's the market that's on our side, too, everyone wants to work for Google, apple, all of the, you know, facebook, the big, whatever, fang, and yeah, like, we don't pay as much on this other side.

00:43:44.313 --> 00:44:16.378
So, if you can make it as that, the only issue is that it's volatile, so there's always layoffs, and so you can have this amazing job and then it's gone, and then maybe you can get another one and maybe you can't, whereas right now, automation you can't not have a job just for trying, which is, you know, kind of sad, because we need people to be good at what we're doing, but we don't have the people and we can't pay them.

00:44:16.378 --> 00:44:30.889
Want to be, uh, working for facebook or apple or netflix, or what google?

00:44:30.889 --> 00:44:31.873
Um, then, uh, yeah, we, so we have the same issue.

00:44:31.893 --> 00:44:40.931
basically like there's, there's more lucrative jobs, so how are we going to get all these people to come hang out with us when there's, technically, you could do less work for more money?

00:44:42.351 --> 00:44:55.985
Yeah, Okay Like okay, so pay better and you can do all that, like you know, remotely, you don't need as much of yields like skills Cause.

00:44:55.985 --> 00:44:58.463
To be an effective controls engineer, you need a lot more than just being able to program a PLC.

00:44:58.463 --> 00:45:03.612
You have to understand what you're programming and why and what it connects to, and then being able to troubleshoot that and purchasing parts.

00:45:03.612 --> 00:45:06.385
You have to understand what you're programming and why, and what it connects to, and then being able to troubleshoot that.

00:45:06.824 --> 00:45:07.728
And purchasing parts and familiar things.

00:45:07.728 --> 00:45:11.400
Once you kind of get hooked on the glory, you can oftentimes overlook some of the downsides.

00:45:11.400 --> 00:45:18.617
But how do we advertise this or promote it as an industry that is attractive over other options?

00:45:18.617 --> 00:45:22.114
That's a hard sell from the get-go.

00:45:22.114 --> 00:45:33.931
I think that's a hard sell like from the get-go, I think, because, like ali said, and and I think the last like couple of decades have been very interesting because there are people that grew up that saw these dream jobs at, let's say, google.

00:45:33.971 --> 00:45:41.824
Right, they started off with the whole trend of, you know, giving you lots and lots of perks because you, they want you on site all the time.

00:45:41.824 --> 00:45:46.742
So they're like well, you don't have to worry about your laundry or your dog or your pet or your kids or anything else.

00:45:46.742 --> 00:45:47.425
We'll take care of it.

00:45:47.425 --> 00:45:49.909
You just come and work uh, all you know, all day long.

00:45:49.909 --> 00:46:00.916
Um, there's a certain you know I, I guess, appeal to that uh kind of fun work environment and, you know, whatever.

00:46:00.916 --> 00:46:23.353
Of course it's like extreme pressure too, um, but that's a whole lot more attractive from the outside than showing somebody a guy like hunched over a bucket for 14 hours in a dark manufacturing plant that doesn't get a ping-pong table or free drinks or free lunch while they're doing it yeah, okay, so so I I know the the, the payment is no reason to come to US.

00:46:26.405 --> 00:46:27.210
It's not better than in.

00:46:27.391 --> 00:46:29.385
Europe for a PhD programmer.

00:46:29.385 --> 00:46:30.286
I think again, though….

00:46:30.286 --> 00:46:31.851
For Siemens, though, you can demand more money.

00:46:33.635 --> 00:46:33.956
Okay.

00:46:34.385 --> 00:46:37.675
Maybe I have to talk with Siemens, maybe.

00:46:38.847 --> 00:46:40.032
I don't do Alan Bradley.

00:46:40.032 --> 00:46:46.112
You guys can get your Alan Bradley people wherever you want, but I can do Siemens like German- can get your Allen Bradley people wherever you want, but I can do Siemens like German-style Siemens.

00:46:46.112 --> 00:46:47.650
So what do you want?

00:46:47.650 --> 00:46:51.231
You want or what, but also in Europe.

00:46:51.344 --> 00:46:53.813
It's also a big difference.

00:46:53.813 --> 00:47:03.510
If you work for the process industry, yeah, if you use a PCS7, there's a different you earn.

00:47:03.510 --> 00:47:09.016
Well, I think of course more PCS is more expensive.

00:47:09.056 --> 00:47:23.273
Yeah, if you do machine PLC stuff, that's never going to make as much money as plant controls or PCS, because it's a higher liability, so everything is just pay scale up.

00:47:23.273 --> 00:47:26.704
Just because everything's a higher liability, so everything is just pay scale up.

00:47:26.704 --> 00:47:27.001
Just because everything is insured different.

00:47:27.001 --> 00:47:34.471
Everything is just such a different money amount that's lost when mistakes are made, small mistakes, huge mistakes.

00:47:34.987 --> 00:47:54.027
So yeah, but I also program or work with PCS7 15 years ago, but I know it's quite easier yeah excuse me.

00:47:54.590 --> 00:47:57.237
I said are you even 50 years old right now?

00:47:57.237 --> 00:47:58.501
Oh, but.

00:47:58.681 --> 00:47:59.043
But you know.

00:47:59.063 --> 00:48:00.146
I was born in.

00:48:00.405 --> 00:48:03.028
Oh my god, that's true.

00:48:03.829 --> 00:48:06.012
His experience started at zero.

00:48:06.012 --> 00:48:09.416
Yeah, yeah that's it.

00:48:09.416 --> 00:48:12.960
Wait, how many years of experience I have to my age you got me there.

00:48:12.960 --> 00:48:15.233
It doesn't say born into it.

00:48:15.233 --> 00:48:17.092
She says it's a curse on her bloodline.

00:48:17.092 --> 00:48:23.510
But either way, yeah, you kind of started way before most people, so I have no other chance.

00:48:23.530 --> 00:48:25.043
yeah, you kind of started way before most people, so I have no other chance.

00:48:25.043 --> 00:48:32.297
Yeah, my father said I have to do this and I do every time what my parents said yeah, no, just kidding.

00:48:34.385 --> 00:48:35.309
Well, but it's.

00:48:35.309 --> 00:48:42.054
Did you ever like leave and try something else and come back, or did you stay kind of in the family business?

00:48:42.054 --> 00:48:43.184
Did you ever leave and try something else and come back?

00:48:43.344 --> 00:48:44.507
Or did you stay in the family business?

00:48:44.507 --> 00:49:04.318
I studied electronic and automation and then I worked two years for two different companies and it was not clear that I would come back to the company of my father.

00:49:04.318 --> 00:49:28.885
But there was a time when I when I worked 80 hours a week and the payment was well, not so good and I I learned a lot of, and there I said, okay, well, now I'm ready to go to the family company.

00:49:28.885 --> 00:49:39.972
I saw the automation world and now I have the experience to do the family business.

00:49:39.972 --> 00:49:41.063
Cool.

00:49:42.809 --> 00:50:00.713
I see that, like a lot of successful people that work in family business, they'll go elsewhere first because it gives you some perspective, it gives you outside experience yeah, um, yeah, it's less than it's or, I guess, different than just kind of staying in that environment and then not making a choice.

00:50:01.092 --> 00:50:06.731
Like you made a choice to go back because you felt like it was a good fit, and I respect that.

00:50:06.731 --> 00:50:10.913
I think that my dad kicked me out when I graduated from college.

00:50:10.913 --> 00:50:17.653
I worked for him from middle school to college and then he said I can't afford you and go find you know, go get some experience.

00:50:17.653 --> 00:50:29.304
And then we work together now on this and that, but like I don't work for him full time, which is which is great, but I can imagine you went and worked for some strangers and didn't you know?

00:50:29.304 --> 00:50:33.135
You put in 80 hours of work and you realized at the end of the day who was making the money.

00:50:35.146 --> 00:51:14.586
And then you kind of come to realization, like some of us well, if I'm going to work that hard, at least it should be for me or people that I care about, or you know something like that, right, uh, because it is hard to be in this industry, I think, and like work, a straight nine to five, like easy, um, yeah, if you, if you had to plant, uh, it's commissioning time, yeah, you can only go home when, when the plant is running, yeah, and there's a lot of pressure, yeah, and then then, you, you, uh, you chat with your friends at the weekend so we go to play, uh, to play, uh, soccer, yeah, um, and well, I'm in a nice factory.

00:51:14.586 --> 00:51:24.161
No, it's not nice, and I have to finish my work and uh, well, so, uh, we're not doing a great job selling it.

00:51:24.204 --> 00:51:27.994
I'll also say, like so many, but I love the same thing.

00:51:27.994 --> 00:51:30.746
So it's like, why are we just broken?

00:51:30.746 --> 00:51:46.449
Like there is gotta be a way to describe why we're so fulfilled even though we're not making, you know, the Facebook money, even though you can make the facebook money, but you have to have your own business, um.

00:51:47.010 --> 00:52:06.873
So yeah, I mean I for me, I think it's something about the fact that we literally make the world go around, like the stuff that we do matters I mean facebook and all that is cool but like that's different ways of spending our leisure time, not actually making the world run.

00:52:06.932 --> 00:52:10.612
The way that everybody… If all we have is Facebook, we will start a desk.

00:52:13.427 --> 00:52:15.152
Or in automation technology.

00:52:15.152 --> 00:52:18.853
If you're an expert, then you can make the rules.

00:52:18.853 --> 00:52:21.612
Then you say no at the weekend.

00:52:21.612 --> 00:52:22.434
It didn't work.

00:52:22.434 --> 00:52:26.766
That's true.

00:52:26.766 --> 00:52:28.090
You picked your way up, yeah, and yeah, I think this is the key.

00:52:28.090 --> 00:52:30.076
Yeah, this, this was also every time the key, also for me.

00:52:30.076 --> 00:52:31.561
Yeah, I'm an expert.

00:52:31.561 --> 00:52:38.889
If you want something from me, um, then we make it from my rules and but.

00:52:38.889 --> 00:52:41.871
But to come to this, this is also hard work.

00:52:42.552 --> 00:52:49.277
Yeah, because you can demand that, but only after you've proven something and to prove it.

00:52:49.277 --> 00:52:54.780
That's all the work that you had to put in To get to a point where they're like, okay, we need him.

00:52:54.780 --> 00:52:56.601
He's the only one.

00:52:56.601 --> 00:53:04.021
There isn't anyone else, because we've already tried other people, because he was not available and we failed miserably.

00:53:04.021 --> 00:53:04.304
We need him.

00:53:05.206 --> 00:53:06.510
So that's who you want to be.

00:53:06.510 --> 00:53:15.375
You want to be that person, but you also, uh, yeah, a lot of people, um, overexert themselves and, uh, you know, deliver.

00:53:15.375 --> 00:53:16.617
What is it, um?

00:53:16.617 --> 00:53:22.311
If you pull miracles, then then people will start expecting that as your job.

00:53:22.311 --> 00:53:27.411
So so you shouldn't you shouldn't regularly pull miracles, even though you may be good.

00:53:27.411 --> 00:53:44.231
You shouldn't do that, um, unless you know, unless the people that are requiring that from you are going to give you more for being able to do that, um, and and to not expect it, or to expect it, but not from just one person, because you're going to burn the people out.

00:53:44.231 --> 00:53:58.737
So it's like, okay, you can pull a miracle this one time, but the next one has to be on somebody else, because we need to give this person, like, a full recovery of the shit you just made them do.

00:53:58.737 --> 00:54:05.150
Yeah, I don't know, have you ever had to pull some miracles?

00:54:05.170 --> 00:54:05.813
you do now.

00:54:05.813 --> 00:54:13.967
Sorry, ali, to cut you off, how much of what you do now is like training and supporting other people versus doing things yourself?

00:54:14.909 --> 00:54:18.875
yeah, uh, so so, uh, we so.

00:54:18.875 --> 00:54:22.018
So you mean our company or myself Yourself.

00:54:22.018 --> 00:54:29.556
Okay, so you mean what I do in my daily business.

00:54:30.846 --> 00:54:37.358
Yeah, I guess I'm assuming that your career has evolved from like doing a lot of the work yourself to now you're creating tools and training people.

00:54:37.358 --> 00:54:39.271
You're the subject matter expert, right?

00:54:39.271 --> 00:54:40.952
So you get that day.

00:54:40.952 --> 00:54:44.166
You don't have to work on the weekend or late at night do you?

00:54:44.166 --> 00:54:56.039
Still do some actual, you know, programming or something you know, of that nature for your company, or have you more so moved into educating or managing or that sort of thing.

00:54:57.121 --> 00:54:59.748
So sometimes I have to do the managing part.

00:54:59.748 --> 00:55:01.612
But this is not the part which I love.

00:55:01.612 --> 00:55:04.056
I love the technical part.

00:55:04.056 --> 00:55:26.077
I love to create trainings um, I love to try new stuff in industry automation, to play around um to create videos for for youtube channel or also for uh for linkedin um and to to look what's new at the market.

00:55:26.077 --> 00:55:37.518
And uh, well, we are in the training business, uh, so we provide in germany and austria and switzerland uh, trainings also.

00:55:37.518 --> 00:55:41.972
We do trainings international uh for big companies.

00:55:41.972 --> 00:55:55.853
Then we do it online, okay, or sometimes we also had a training for a big steel company in Texas where we put every equipment together and fly over to US.

00:55:55.853 --> 00:55:58.554
We also do this in China.

00:55:58.554 --> 00:56:15.132
But this is special and this is because we are, well, I think, one of the company with the best and deepest experience in Siemens automation.

00:56:15.132 --> 00:56:20.940
Yeah, um depend, sometimes we know more than Siemens.

00:56:22.913 --> 00:56:28.429
Yeah, because you're you're out there you know more directly, I guess, touching it yeah, see, yes.

00:56:28.809 --> 00:56:32.335
Also, siemens ask us uh, what's what's new?

00:56:32.335 --> 00:56:34.059
How can we develop things?

00:56:34.059 --> 00:56:48.753
We talk there with siemens and, um, well, I think this this is the key, that that I don't have to work at the weekend, but I also do it because I love it.

00:56:51.766 --> 00:56:56.717
It's pretty hard once you get to this point, I guess, like we do.

00:56:56.717 --> 00:57:02.110
There's so much information to learn, there's so much stuff to try.

00:57:02.110 --> 00:57:04.668
We have our things we have to do and then things we'd like to do.

00:57:04.668 --> 00:57:09.202
Um, and I I personally have a hard time shutting it off as well.

00:57:09.202 --> 00:57:13.338
There's especially now there's just so much development going on so fast.

00:57:13.338 --> 00:57:22.891
I tried for the longest time, like the last three years, to kind of ignore the ai and this, all this hype kind of stuff, and focus on, like, what people are really doing.

00:57:22.891 --> 00:57:30.072
But then it's really that gap is really closing faster than maybe not faster than I expected, but faster than we seen in the past.

00:57:30.072 --> 00:57:34.786
So it's becoming more and more important to stay on top of some of the new stuff.

00:57:34.786 --> 00:57:38.076
So we are coming up on time.

00:57:38.485 --> 00:57:44.393
So I'll ask, unless there's something specific that we didn't talk about, that you would love to make sure that we mention.

00:57:44.393 --> 00:57:49.614
I would like to hear from you, I guess, where can people follow you?

00:57:49.614 --> 00:58:04.445
You already mentioned like YouTube, but tell us kind of what the names of your channels are, if people can connect with you or follow you on LinkedIn and then your company, where people can, if there are companies here in the us that need more siemens training for their people.

00:58:04.445 --> 00:58:07.532
Um can they contact you guys?

00:58:07.532 --> 00:58:09.496
Can you do that with them online, can you?

00:58:09.496 --> 00:58:11.108
Obviously you can come here and train.

00:58:11.108 --> 00:58:19.391
Tell us a little bit more about that so that our us audience can engage with you if they want to learn more or follow you or get trained by you guys, yeah, sure.

00:58:19.692 --> 00:58:29.753
So I already said our new platform Well, I will share the link, of course I also said, to LinkedIn.

00:58:29.753 --> 00:58:32.318
So follow my profile.

00:58:32.318 --> 00:58:45.094
And well, our YouTube channel just put in the search Grollmoos, then you will find our channel.

00:58:45.094 --> 00:58:57.914
The only thing it's in German, but the screencast we do it in English, but then you have to translate it with the AI, but today it's not so big problem.

00:58:57.914 --> 00:59:14.876
Well, and if you need trainings, well, in Germany, switzerland and Austria, there are our offices and well, I also said it, we do it online also in English.

00:59:14.876 --> 00:59:22.458
We do it for each Siemens topic, also for back-off topics.

00:59:22.458 --> 00:59:25.193
Visit our website.

00:59:25.193 --> 00:59:28.150
We also have an English site.

00:59:28.150 --> 00:59:36.512
So, growlmoosede and well, there will you find all information.

00:59:36.512 --> 00:59:39.708
Or just send me a message on LinkedIn.

00:59:39.708 --> 00:59:42.913
I am every day online at LinkedIn.

00:59:42.913 --> 00:59:48.827
I also thank you very much, uh, to you both.

00:59:48.847 --> 01:00:03.510
uh, we also uh get the connection about linkedin, so this is also a great platform, yeah when I, when I invited anybody that listens to this podcast isn't on linkedin and didn't find us through linkedin, because that's pretty much the only place we are.

01:00:03.510 --> 01:00:12.641
But if you somehow stumbled across this podcast from somewhere other than LinkedIn, that's kind of you know where we congregate at the moment.

01:00:12.641 --> 01:00:26.585
I've been asking people actually one follow up question, michael aside from LinkedIn, is there a forum or a website or a community or anywhere else that you find yourself in, your community or your customers?

01:00:26.585 --> 01:00:30.594
Sharing knowledge or making connections that sort of thing.

01:00:31.096 --> 01:00:34.949
Well, we we decided to go to focus on linkedin.

01:00:35.951 --> 01:00:45.045
Um, this is the the place to be okay that that's what we see as well, that there's a few people like there's a few older forums.

01:00:45.045 --> 01:00:47.092
That's something frequent, um.

01:00:47.092 --> 01:01:02.715
I know our friend, frank lamb, has a community um website that he started out of his trainings, but it really seems like the majority of these discussions and these connections are being made on linkedin and, yeah, inbox, inbox, michael, for work.

01:01:02.715 --> 01:01:12.898
I mean, we, a lot of us, have actually gotten, you know, contracts, collaborations, podcasts, the connections you make on LinkedIn.

01:01:12.898 --> 01:01:19.052
So if you're listening to this and you've been lurking on LinkedIn and you're not active, I would highly encourage you to become more active.

01:01:19.052 --> 01:01:22.568
You don't have to put out your own content, just engage with other people.

01:01:22.989 --> 01:01:27.557
If there's any particular area of interest you have, either in learning or something that you're learning, share it.

01:01:27.557 --> 01:01:32.695
Um, I think at this point, there's enough of us that really share that.

01:01:32.695 --> 01:01:40.726
Let's share what we know and what we're learning mindset that we can all just add to each other's uh resources and our networks.

01:01:40.726 --> 01:01:48.643
Um, and we can accomplish more together, whether it's across the sea or you know your neighboring state or, in my case, like even in the same city.

01:01:48.643 --> 01:01:55.766
There's people that I interact with on linkedin more than I do in in real life, uh, because I really don't want to drive an hour.

01:01:55.766 --> 01:02:02.891
It's really convenient to be able to ping someone and have a conversation and then a video call or record a podcast so.

01:02:03.012 --> 01:02:09.838
So, now that we've done this phone call for an hour um do we, can we come hang out at your house in germany?

01:02:12.429 --> 01:02:16.856
of course, I have also a small pool, but the weather is.

01:02:16.856 --> 01:02:18.440
The weather is not so nice.

01:02:20.050 --> 01:02:33.748
Yeah, yeah we can handle this yeah, yeah, we can handle this it's, it's, but do you mean it's quiet?

01:02:33.768 --> 01:02:35.351
no, I said we, we will be quiet so we don't make noise in your house.

01:02:35.351 --> 01:02:44.114
Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, yeah, perfect, so I also have a garage, oh yeah okay, I mean that might be so we'll come in the summer.

01:02:44.235 --> 01:02:48.954
Yeah, the closest I've been to where you are is Darmstadt.

01:02:48.954 --> 01:02:50.550
Is that anywhere close?

01:02:53.576 --> 01:02:54.465
No, no, this is close.

01:02:54.465 --> 01:02:59.500
I think it's a little bit more than half an hour by car.

01:02:59.500 --> 01:03:00.262
Okay, yeah.

01:03:01.206 --> 01:03:02.090
Half an hour by car.

01:03:02.244 --> 01:03:24.940
That's like to me, me, that's in my neighborhood, yes, yes, so, so the, so the big, the biggest is to go to hamburg or to munich, and this uh um to munich, I think, uh, about four hours, uh to to hamburg, about six hours, and that's it, so you can reach everything by car.

01:03:25.987 --> 01:03:28.431
I can drive for eight hours and still not leave the state.

01:03:28.431 --> 01:03:34.369
Coming from somewhere like Iceland, which is so small, to me, that just is.

01:03:34.369 --> 01:03:36.012
It's insane.

01:03:36.012 --> 01:03:38.389
So we are up on time.

01:03:38.389 --> 01:03:41.112
Is there anything, any last-minute additions anyone wants to make?

01:03:41.425 --> 01:04:06.492
Yeah, I just want to say that I wasn't in the frame, but I was listening to him talking about how even Siemens sometimes asks them for help, and so you as a company, like anyone in the US, wants to build a relationship with the entirety of, like Bro Moose, because there's no reason you shouldn't do that, and uh, yeah.

01:04:06.492 --> 01:04:20.192
So I mean, if you want to be on the forefront of whatever Siemens is going to do, these are your partners for that, and at the same time, they're also your partners for cybersecurity, which is the most emerging thing right now.

01:04:20.192 --> 01:04:24.490
So really, they've got everything covered, so you should hit them up.

01:04:24.490 --> 01:04:36.112
Um, and if you don't hit them up, like I'm going to hit them up and uh, yeah, so you can buy it through me They'll be supported by the experts at Gromus underneath.

01:04:36.193 --> 01:04:36.793
There you go.

01:04:36.793 --> 01:04:37.936
Yeah, there you go.

01:04:37.976 --> 01:04:38.757
Thank you very much.

01:04:38.844 --> 01:04:40.050
That's our skills pitch for the day.

01:04:40.050 --> 01:04:44.251
Also, uh, that's our sales pitch for the day.

01:04:44.251 --> 01:04:44.996
Also, like and follow us on YouTube.

01:04:44.996 --> 01:04:54.614
We have a YouTube channel and on LinkedIn, and we hope to have some more videos coming out later this year as we increase the size of our team at Automation Ladies.

01:04:54.614 --> 01:05:03.800
Right now we have zero time for it, so if you see our videos, they are completely unedited and live and just on LinkedIn and YouTube, where they got streamed.

01:05:03.800 --> 01:05:10.871
Conversations like this have no video out anywhere yet because we have no time or expertise in video editing.

01:05:10.871 --> 01:05:19.630
If you do and you hear this and you want to be part of our team, hit me up in the DMs on LinkedIn or Nikki at automationladiesio.

01:05:19.630 --> 01:05:29.592
Otherwise, yeah, let's sign off and then, michael, just don't leave the studio just yet, both of you until your uploads are complete.

01:05:29.592 --> 01:05:30.896
But, thank you, bye-bye.