Live A Life With No Regrets And Eat Some Magic Mushrooms With Matt Lindley!

Brock Goldberg:   0:06
from the land of Mystery with dreams become reality Always listening to stories from the past, the present and the future. This is back. What's up, guys? Thank you so much for tune it in to talk about a sponsor today. That just means a lot to me. It's called Jupiter. They make some of the highest quality CBD on the market. And I would know I've tried so many brands. Ah, but these guys were special because they focus on alleviating stress. They are also USDA organic. They are single strain or gin. You know, they only use the flower that testing this phenomenal. And they're often you guys something special. It's called the Jupiter Journey. It's a two week supply for $19. And then after that, you guys use my code to receive $10 off the code is storytime. Yet that makes sense. Right? Um so, yeah, get the Jupiter journey today. 19 bucks go to get jupiter dot com and then off your next order you story time for the $10 off. Ah, put all the information the show notes. All right, here we go. So a very special guest on today. It's Matt Linley, Cyber security specialist. Just fucking wizard man. We talked about life. Love Scylla. Simon L s D Block. Jane Crypto this that and the other This dude and I have been through so many things. Yeah, so let's get to it. It's definitely an interesting story for sure, by far. Absolutely. Actually. Let's just start off with that real quick. Uh, why don't you tell the listeners how we first met?

Matt Lindley :   1:54
So, uh, let's see, where do I start? It was I was getting my hair cut. This, uh, it was, ah, salon inside the mall in Santa Creative Valencia mall. And I'd gone there, I think, once or twice before, Just kind of a block in whoever was available. Um, and, uh, one day, I, uh, needed a haircut, went in there, and the person that was cutting my hair. Um, you know, I don't know. I don't know what the deal was, but there's there's something going on. There may be some substances, Zannex. Yeah, maybe. Maybe a little high. But when when she cut my hair, uh, she put a massive, like, one inch, almost a hard part razor and just completely screwed. I mean, she was dropping things. She was there. She Oh, she was just a little

Brock Goldberg:   2:51
shoes. She was slightly intoxicated. This is a one inch hard part. So

Matt Lindley :   2:55
So So, you know, after that happened, I just, You know, I

Brock Goldberg:   2:59
don't even

Matt Lindley :   3:00
know if I if I really said anything when I was just I just kind of wanted, like, you know, like, make sure was a cz bad as I thought it was. The funny part is, I had a business meeting the next day with With With my CEO. We're meeting a, uh um, friends of his two. We're going after their business personally knew these people. So I show up with, you know, I worked a ridiculous haircut, and, you know, all I could do was just kind of laugh, you know?

Brock Goldberg:   3:29
Did you call it out? Did you say,

Matt Lindley :   3:31
You know, I didn't In the business meeting I did with with my my boss. I said I said, Look, I'm really sorry. You know, I got my hair cut by a lawn more. Yes, but, you know, it was it was fine. Yeah, not a big deal. So, you know, But I did call the owner of the salon. And I just said I said, Look, you know, you may wanna, you know, look after this person and check her out. I think she was probably not in a state of mind. Where should she should be? Cutting hair? She definitely wasn't, Um, and what she does. She hooked me up with three free haircuts, and she recommended, not even recommended. She said you have to, you know, sit down with Brock. He is. You know, he's incredible. He's an incredible stylist, and I did, and that's that's, uh, you know, made an appointment with you. You cut my hair, and from there it was like, you know,

Brock Goldberg:   4:23
best buds. That's so freaking crazy. I mean, t think that, uh, you were about to go into this important meeting. You sit down, you get a haircut. Uh, this girl totally fucks your hair, huh? Um, and you push forward through it, and I mean, you just add of the nice since I don't even know, nicest, your heart. But you did. You called? You said, you know, explain toe to Kim of Solanki. Frickin amazing. If you're in the Valencia area, check out her salon. Um and, uh she made it right by giving me three haircuts. Now, I I do appreciate the kindness and things that you said. But for me, looking back on what happened to you was probably the best haircut you have forgot. And what I mean by that is it allowed us to foster relationships. That was the worst haircut, but yeah, and who

Matt Lindley :   5:10
knows, You know, I mean, that was kind of my I'd gone there a couple times. It was, you know, is that the mind? I have two kids, you know? So sometimes we go hang out by the most. That was probably night. Eventually I may have sat down with you, and I think I think that's all it would have taken is getting me, you know, sitting down with you on getting a haircut, because we just don't forget what we're where we started. And maybe politics, probably, you know, eventually got into crypto.

Brock Goldberg:   5:34
I've been away and

Matt Lindley :   5:34
just, you know, from there were, you know,

Brock Goldberg:   5:36
just fricking group. It's It's crazy. I mean, being ableto foster such a long, long relationship and the things that we've gone through, Um thank you so much for starting off with such a funny story, but I I want to dive Ah, little bit deeper back into your past first, because back to your story is really about sharing people there. The story of how they became who they are. And for you, I look at you is one of, you know, my friends that, um, does his life on his own terms, and I think that's really important. You have two amazing kids, and you have a good job. And you have just always been just so kind. Uh, me, my family, people in general. And, ah, when I think of a person, one of my friends that I look up to most it's you by far you like my big brother. I swear you, you and my my older brother have so many common um uh, commonalities that, uh, just kind of warms my heart. And I think that really for me when you sat down, um uh, it was just kind of instantaneous. It was love at first sight. Eso getting off talking. Where'd you grow up, man? Yes.

Matt Lindley :   6:53
So, um, I was born in a small city called Madeira. Grew up until I was about seven years old in an even smaller town called Oh, cursed years, maybe 1500 people who live there. In fact, I remember moving away and, you know, I think a year later talking to ah, you know, a friend that I'd grown up with. They're over the phone, just kind of touching base. How are things going? He said, Oh, we got, um we got our first subway in my mind. My eight year old mind. I'm like underground transportation. That's, you know, But then it finally clicked. Wasn't you know, the sharpest stool at that point? But but yes. Oh, they it was a really small town. Grew up on 40 acres. Uh, and I remember, you know, taking walks on our property and finding, you know, Indian artifacts, obsidian arrowheads. Morning pencils, you know, is a cool place to grow up. Yeah, Snow there, Uh, you know, during the winter, I think about about 5500 feet elevation. So we got a little bit of snow and, you know, growing up with, you know, group on skis put skis on with ski down the hill, walk back up and get going. I'll bring the dash sos. It was me. Definitely spent a lot of time, You know, outside for sure. We had a lot of lot of cats and dogs on the property.

Brock Goldberg:   8:10
Just just a big old bunch of land home. And your kids are mean cats, animals, things like being ableto ski find Arrow has. I mean, that's really awesome. And, uh, very unique story for me. I definitely didn't have any of that. So if I ever had the ability to find out cool, unique arrowheads growing up, I definitely would have kept a couple of them by chance. Do you have any of them?

Matt Lindley :   8:32
Um, you know, I'd have to probably look pretty deep, but I would I would I wouldn't put money on being able to find that so called over. But

Brock Goldberg:   8:40
that's awesome. Yeah. What about after that? How old were you when you left?

Matt Lindley :   8:46
So I think I was about seven years old when we moved away. My parents got divorced. So that's you know, when we move, my dad moved to Irvine, and then my and then And then we moved to Irvine with my mom. We kind of predominantly, you know, stayed with her. Um, and, uh, you know, a big part of us. I think moving away is my mom saw that, You know, it would There weren't a lot of opportunities for us growing up in a small town, you know? And that was for her. And she's, you know, um, she's, uh definitely. I think one of my personal heroes just because, you know, she's every decision she's ever kind of made, you know? I see as I'm older now how much she put you know, us, her kids, me and my siblings, you know, ahead of everything else and really just gave us, you know, all the opportunities in the world. And so this was one of them, right? Uh, cool moved away. Single mom. She was working as, ah, uh, district attorney at the time. How and so you were kind of latchkey kids at that point, you know, getting ourselves to school, getting home, making, you know, our own meals. I learned how to make killer being burrito. Yes, you did. Legendary. Legendary. You know, that's what you do when you're, you know, trying to figure it out.

Brock Goldberg:   10:01
How? Yeah. Bean burrito, steam burritos, Baby, I

Matt Lindley :   10:04
love you. Yeah. So it was, uh, you know on then and then Grew up in your ride in South Orange County area

Brock Goldberg:   10:12
for the most part. Nice. You know what you said about your mom being here? Lynn And just kind of Ah, fucking doing it, you know, really putting you guys forward. The first thing I thought of was you. It is a strong relent resemblance to who you are as an individual, always putting your kids first. And ah, that has passed down very strongly. Thio you from your mother to you. And I would assumed that one day both of your kids will say the same thing about their father. And I think that's so important. You know, being a child, um, going through a divorce, I don't know what that's like, but you know that I I lost my father too. Early age. But it doesn't matter. Going through a divorce, uh, and then, you know, moving to Irvine, figuring things out, it's just a strong resemblance to who you are. Um, so going through all of that, if you can look back at that at the divorce, and I don't mean the kind of prying your past, it's just some questions right. Ah, what was that? Like? A child was hard. It's

Matt Lindley :   11:14
funny, You know, I almost anticipated this question, and I was thinking about it as you were dialoguing. You know, I don't know if I have any, truly, you know, powerful feelings around it. I mean, you know, it was hard at the time. I remember crying when I was hearing about it. And, you know, I I think, um, you know, I look at it as you know, it's just it's it's part of it. And you work with what you have. You know, I think in, you know, divorce in many cases, a lot of times, it's, you know, it's a it's a, um on option. That is for the better, right? And in our case, I think obviously, you know, it was for for whatever reason. And so, you know, I'm bummed that I don't have the relationship with my dad that I do with my mom because you know, she. But at the same time, you know, I think, um uh, you know, much of that was just because of her, you know, dedication and her commitment to, you know, making sure that you know we had that relationship and that she, you know, looked out for us in that way and not, you know, you know, my dad was his unit was a great dad, great father, but, you know, just not in the same capacity. And didn't I think, put us, you know, in the same, um, priority as, you know, my mom did. So that's you know, that's the reason

Brock Goldberg:   12:38
I got relation. I No, no, no, trust me and get it. And there was something that you said is sometimes it's for the better, right? And I, um, just I can only tap into my own personal experiences growing up and looking through the shit my parents put my sister and brother on myself through. It would have been a lot better if they got divorced, right? Um, and I think that a lot of times couples will hold on to this fictional thing that we need to be together for the kids, and it's like, No, if it's not working, then it's not working, and that's gonna directly correlate on, passed down to to your kids and the things that they see and the things that they do later on. in there and their life.

Matt Lindley :   13:16
That's funny. I think about this night. Like I think about some of the things that I've subscribed to just that are, like, cultural or social, you know, kind of status quos, expectations. Ah, and I, you know, the older I get, I realize more and more like, you know, it's You have to ask yourself like, Why am I doing these things And really kind of critically think about it versus just going with the flow and going back to something you said Interesting, you know, before which was interesting. And that's, you know, just kind of setting your own life, you know, making your own life. And I think the more I break, you know, I asked myself, What am I doing and why am I doing it? The more I can I think, correct. And, you know, make the things happen that I really, truly want versus, um, you know, um, fitting in tow mold or a path that I probably don't really want.

Brock Goldberg:   14:09
No shirt for sure, you know, as you and I both know, um, life's a blink of an eye man. It's truly a blink of an eye and There are so many people in this world that kind of just just go through the monotony of everyday bullshit of life and listen. Everyone's story is different. Everyone's story is different. But I wish that more people would take their head, other sand, and realize like this. Life is all you fucking got. And you might as well make the best of it. Um, and I get it. Everyone has their struggles, struggles, Ariel. But if we just kind of take our head vow and kind of really follow our gut instinct instead of our heart gut instinct, maybe people's lives would be different, you know? And obviously that's not everyone's life, because there's billions of billions of people on this planet. I get it. But I don't know, it's just philosophy. I've had my my entire life. I try to surround myself with people that are like minded. And so when you came into my life, I was like, This is this is a person as part of my tribe. My crew.

Matt Lindley :   15:07
Yeah. Yeah, you know, it's funny. We have, uh you know, I feel very lucky to be ableto you know, exercise some of these things that I want to do that, maybe are unique and different and taking. You know, I feel lucky that I can even take some of these risks because not not everyone can do it right. And that's that's something that I think it's important to recognize is, um, you know, there are people that they, you know, they just they do not have the ability to take the kinds of risks that you know, I am able to shape my life the way I want it, of course, but the risks, you know, they paid off. For the most part, some have failed. I don't know. If you fail, you learn, you grow. Of course, I had a business. We can get into that. You know, uh, I had to shut down the business on, you know, that was it was a humbling experience. And ah, really valuable lesson.

Brock Goldberg:   15:56
Yeah. No, no, I I get that. Just I mean, you brought it up, so let's just talk about it. Um uh, what was the business that you started?

Matt Lindley :   16:02
So I started and, you know, there's there's probably a fair amount of back story to this that would add context, you know, my background is in. You know, I t and consulting with I would say, focus on cyber security. Um, and, uh, after living in Orange County and I was married at the time I moved thio Portland Pacific Northwest area Nice and weaken, you know, touch on that again at a later point. It is a really cool area. I love that area. Um, and, uh and, you know, this was before we had kids ended up having your first child out there. Um, and then a couple years later, moved back, and when we moved back, I landed at this company. It was, ah, you know, called a manage service's company. They do. You know, I t support for businesses landed there and eventually, you know, started and ran their cybersecurity practice. Fantastic. So, you know, built it from the ground up. Um, you know, built a team, developed all the service is all that stuff. And so after, you know, a fair amount of time doing that. Um, and it was just kind of the right time. I mean, you know, anyone has picked up a newspaper or watches the news, you know? No, cybersecurity is kind of a hot how your topic right now, Um, and has been for a little bit. But, you know, I thought to myself, um and, you know, I think it's a combination of things. I think it's me personally. I like, um, you know, I've always worked in entrepreneurial type settings, even if it wasn't my own business. Almost every company I work for was either a startup, a small company where I worked with the founder where, you know, I'm kind of helping grow things in different ways. That's just, you know what? What I think brings me a lot of happiness and, you know, creating and executing. Um and so I ran that for a while that that's, you know, certain point thought to myself. Well, either, you know, I don't really have the level of control that I want to, you know, exercise some of these the service's. And also I felt like, you know, I if I did it myself, would be a lot more work, you know, definitely

Brock Goldberg:   18:13
realize that going that's a lot of work.

Matt Lindley :   18:16
But, um, I'd be able to also, you know, have a lot more reward associated. So I decided Thio start my own business. And that was January of I want to say 2017. Uh uh was married at the time. And this is one thing that I think, definitely, you know, led to ultimate demise of the business. But 2017 mid to late is also when I started going through ah, divorce of my own sauce, that was tough. And then, you know, by the end of 2018 realized that I, you know, I needed toe. Um uh, I needed to make a decision on I made that decision to leave the business, and it happened to be one of the best decisions. I make some extremely happy where I'm at that now it's feel blessed to have kind of landed at the path I've landed.

Brock Goldberg:   19:05
Sure, it's so incredible. And I say this to a lot of people in life. We're going to be faced with many decisions. You can either go left or you can go right, and, ah, some people decide to go left. Some people decide to go right, and it's understanding at that current moment in the time of your life toe, take all the bullshit that's at the top of your brain, Um, maybe feelings that you have towards a business relationship, whatever it is and pull everything out and look at it from a macro perspective, right? If it's a business or a relationship or whatever it is, how has that relationship or businessman going? Is it flat lining? Is it slowly going up? Is it going up, Down, up, down, up, down. And if you can look at it from that bird's eye view, Okay. All right. Well, some days go up, some days go down. But if from that bird's eye view it's slowly going up, well, then you probably know your answer. But a lot of times, people will take a lot of these feelings. These rushes to judgment that got to do this. I gotta follow it there. I got to see it through when? Maybe that wasn't the best decision in for you. That business pulling out of it was probably very hard. It was a lot of time, everything money in relationship and this and not in the other. But by pulling out of it, look where you're at today. And so you made the smart decision. You made the right decision. So kudos to you? Yeah,

Matt Lindley :   20:23
it was It was tough, you know, it was you know that. I mean, there was definitely some, you know, like I wasn't happy. You know? I was, um, going through a divorce, that which, you know, those air Never. Now for fun on. And you know, something that I put a lot of sweat equity into And money, um, you know, just, you know, making that making that decision. And so, yeah, um and Ah, yeah, Another thing will probably get, too. But I think one of the things that really helped pull me out of that and make that decision, um, we're mushrooms there. We go on to say that I had a profound experience, Absolutely that I'm thankful for No, because it helped me. I mean, it helped me a line, things in a way, and look at things in a way that almost it's. And it was an instant, but, you know, pretty much pulled me out of, I think, you know, one of the darker periods of my life where, you know, not dark, dark, but just get it just you know, I wasn't happy.

Brock Goldberg:   21:31
Know for sure, And and I couldn't figure it out. I

Matt Lindley :   21:35
couldn't make a decision. I couldn't pull out of it. And, uh, you know, that was a really amazing tool that, you know, I think helped change my life for the better.

Brock Goldberg:   21:43
Abs. Absolutely. You know, if you use these types of these mushrooms so assignment mushrooms as a tool on, uh, you and me are both big believers that they can be a very strong tool that can help you out through things in your life. Um, for me, uh, mushrooms came to me later on in my life. When I was younger, I experienced them, and it was never a good experience, but I wasn't at the right place. The right time, the right mindset. Eso side of mushrooms should not be used when you're ah, kid. You know, your frontal cortex is still developing our brains. Everything is still developing to almost 25 years old. But when I became, you know, older and my late twenties early thirties, I started experimenting with them. And by far, mushrooms have saved my marriage. And what I mean by that is my wife, Phyllis, and I, we've been together 16 years. We just celebrated our 16 year together. High school sweethearts. Thanks. Yeah, it is. It's it's insane. But, um, she's a very talented makeup artist. And, um, about three years ago, I was at this point where we've been together for 13 years. We're married, Let's have kids, you know? And we've talked about kids a lot. And I was at this point in my career, I'm like, All right, uh, I'm ready. And at the time I was speaking from one point of view, not both of our points of view, and I was getting everyone excited. I made her believe that we should have a kid. And I was telling everyone know we're gonna have a kid at the beginning of next year and blah, blah, blah, blah. And I remember only thinking about myself at that moment for for that year when I said All right, it's time, right? No. Real Sit down. No conversation and nothing. It was just like, Oh, I'm ready. So you you better be ready to. And we were We went to Disney World. Um, this was three years ago, and we're at Disney World, and, uh, like my buddy and I do every single year we eat some mushrooms and kind of go on the spiritual trip at Animal Kingdom. We always have a fucking awesome time. And Elissa came along with us that time, And I remember going through the trip and over, son, all these ideas and thoughts started point into my brain. And why I really like so assignment is because it really allows you to dive deep inside your brain in ways that I normally I mean, I think a lot, right? I constantly thinking, But this is so different. And, um, I remember thinking I was like, Holy shit and I I started getting overwhelmed. I started crying and analyst the tournament. She goes, But what's brought wrong, Brock And I was like, Listen, I'm I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. What the fuck is wrong? Because I gotta know where, right? Um and I was like, Babe, I'm so sorry. I've been pushing, clicked a clip. I'm so sorry. But pushing kids, she is a makeup artist, and, uh, she is been on this trip. She's fucking awesome. She's been killing it, but she just had gotten into the union. And so, uh, literally what? I was asking my wife to do Waas Just get into the union, which is like, just getting your doctorate, right? Like the top, right? Give up her purpose and then give up her fucking purpose. And And I totally did not think about any of that. And why I say that I say my marriages, because what happens a lot of times in marriages is one of the couples will follow their dream. And the other one will kind of take care of the kids and doing that shit right. And things are changing now. Both couples are working all that shit. But put that stuff aside. Just my relationship. I was literally asking her to have kids. Right Is you made your freaking goal. Know what's really the smart thing to do is make that goal do it for, you know, 23 years. You make a strong name for yourself, then step away for a little bit of time to have a kid. So then you can jump back into it, right? And I sit here today and tell you on this frickin pockets in front of you that I promise you we would have gotten divorced 10 years later because after our kids were slightly, a little bit older, she would have started to look back at her own life and been like, What the fuck? You followed your goal. You followed your dream. I literally was right to meet mine. And then nothing. And so I got chills. Is I'm saying this because psilocybin, if used for the right time, the right tool just like for you. It's

Matt Lindley :   26:14
amazing. It's almost, you know, I see it as a tool. And there's, you know, I think lately been a lot more scientific research into this stuff, you know, in a clinical capacity and returning at, you know, the benefits on so many different levels in layers. Definitely a tool, you know, almost like, you know, people who are really practice that meditation, you know, get to state where they can even unpack things that your conscious state of mine has a hard time doing so. Simon. You know, mushrooms just they give you access to be able to, you know, look at things from different angles that you just you wouldn't be able to look at, you know, without either a ton of practice or, um um, you know, or it all. So, uh, you know, for me, I think, um, and I remember the experience that did it. It was, uh, you know, when people talk about, you know, you know, taking ah hero dose. I think they call it our level five losing. You're losing your Inga. We go? Yes. And I remember on Does something I did alone because I think that's the only way you can. Therapeutically, uh, I don't want to. That's not the only way for me. It was It was from you. It was It was my It was a therapy session. So I did it alone. And I remember having this feeling that was so powerful where I laughed, cried, was thankful was, you know, I could almost see beauty in, you know, the universe and living things in nature that, you know I can't even describe. And, uh and then and then all of a sudden, I started thinking about my life and what I wanted and what was important. And it was just so amazing how quickly I was able to organize and understand. I'm doing this. This isn't the right time. Ah, you know, I'm not happy. Make you know, Just just do it. It's gonna be hard. Get through it. But this is the right decision. And it was after that that I started, you know? I mean, it was it was literally a couple of days later that I started making the moves toe shut down. The business was looking for other opportunities, you know, starting to network in different ways. And, um, that's, you know, we'll touch on what I'm getting into it now. But it or what? I'm what I'm doing professionally right now, but it's Ah, yeah. I mean, it's, um it's amazing that it led me here.

Brock Goldberg:   28:38
Yes, it is. I mean, you and I have gone through a lot of journeys together and ah ah, really? When I was going through kind of my biggest spiritual moments with with so assignment trying to figure things out, um, we were kind of going through their things together and by far psilocybin LSD, the Empty. They have strong proponents to it that allow you to unmarked parts of your brain that you normally don't use on another one for me. I think we've talked about this before. Was d m t, um, Earlier in the beginning part of 2019. I was kind of going through a lot mentally, You know, I suffer from fibromyalgia, my back issues, and, uh, I like to a year prior to that, I literally almost died. I was a nice youth or remember, three weeks looking scary. It was terrible. And I remember getting out of the hospital, and and I just don't understand why I was I just couldn't understand why I was alive. Just nothing made sense, and and it lasted for a year. And I remember, um, my darkest point of my life. Um, I was contemplating suicide, and I was just so fucking just fed up with everything going on, and I just I couldn't understand why I was here. And I remember my friend, um, had offered me the empty and I never knew when I was ready. Um, but something inside me said Brock, if at any time you're you're gonna you're gonna do it now. And so I, um, called him up and we set the area. It was just him and I and I remember going through that experience, taking the first at the second and the third hit and I went to a place that I've never been before. I've done a lot of hallucinogens in my life, but I've never been to this place. And I remember laying back and I looked up and and and all I could see was these eyes looking down at me. And for some reason, it felt like it was my dad and I started having this conversation within and is simply put. He was just telling me, Brock, it's not your time we got through all that. We all go through hardship like it's just not your time is like that. You find Don't fucking give up so much to live for. And I remember coming out of it, and I was the most scared, the most vulnerable. But at the same time, pieces of the puzzle finally fucking click. And I started therapy a week later. I have to tell you today not a fucking chance. What I ever three months, four months later, promoted to the top position and my fucking company. Um, the healthiest I've ever been working out doing all these things I've never done in my entire life. But at that moment, and I tell you man. It's a pivot. It was a fucking pivot. It was used as a tool. And so, as we're sitting here today, you know, we've all gone through these experiences and I'm not saying these things are for everybody. I'm just sharing my own experiences.

Matt Lindley :   31:52
Yeah. I mean, you know, um, just the more I kind of I read about these tools in this capacity, you know, the more I believe that, you know, if you if you treat them as as a tool, exactly, then they can be very powerful tools. You want one of things that I, you know, I think I read recently. So what? One of things that is kind of happening, happening at a physiological level with D m t is that it turns on your Is that your beta waves? Basically, it's it's it makes you it's basically puts you in a lucid dream, right? You're in that state of mind where you're you're dreaming, but you're wide awake. And so that's why you have such, you know, one of the reasons why you have such intense, you know, visuals. But it's also part of your brain. You know, you're you're able to then I mean, that's the tool. You're able to look at things in just a crazy way and correlate them and, you know, our bring things together. And to me, dreams are super fascinating. I remember watching this isn't Nova special. I don't know how many years ago, so I'm not gonna be ableto, I think articulated to its what it deserves. But one of the things that they were talking about it was a study where they took, you know, three groups of people, first group they didn't let. And I know there's different stages of sleep, but if we were to kind of break it down in two main stages, you know, you kind of your deep sleep, and then you're, you know, um, you know, first stage asleep, and then I added, No, I can't talk about it. Uh um, Articulately. But what they did is they woke the people up before they got to that second, you know, deep sleep stage. And then they looked at, you know, the brainwaves, what's happening. And then in the study, they put people on a video game. It was like a skiing video games. You're going downhill doing the moguls and all that stuff and what, to me, was really fascinating. And then when they explained it totally made sense is that the first stage of sleep is you're organizing your thoughts, right? You're just you're You know, basically you're hitting the play button on what you recorded throughout the day and then organizing the second stage of sleep is you Are you actually introducing new scenarios you're you're doing? You're doing creative things. You're, you know, taking what you've organized, what actually happened and almost playing simulations against, like, how do I if I did this differently? What will happen? And in the study, you know, the first group that they woke up before they got to that stage asleep. You know, they almost all didn't do as well in the ski game versus the people who actually got that air. Their stage of sleeping, you know, may have been because they're a little tired. But when they also looked at the you know, the data on what's happening they realized that that second stage of sleep so and you know, and you look at it like even sleeping medication and stuff like that, which kind of prevents people from. I mean, you know, if you, uh I mean, there's just so much debate and science on sleep on how important you know that is and even know, Warden, you know, cleaning your brain from cancerous, you know, cells and absolutely, um, yeah, it's just it's just

Brock Goldberg:   35:01
asleep. Fascinates. No, no, it does. It does

Matt Lindley :   35:03
never. But I think, yeah, I think with the you know, the point I was trying to make with, uh, you know, hallucinogens. It's It's almost kind of, you know, introducing that element of, you know, sleep where your brain is able to just do these incredible things and you're able to, you know, like, remember them. And that's, you know,

Brock Goldberg:   35:22
it's it's it's really incredible. There's a really short documentary on Netflix. That's the explain, Siri's, um, and they have one on psychedelics and they have scans of the brain. That's just, you know, sober right on. No drugs, Um, and they have a brain that's on hallucinogens. It's either LSD or psilocybin, and you look at the way that the brain talks of certain parts of the brain when it's completely sober, and then you take the brain that is on the hallucinogen, the LSD or psilocybin and parts of the brain that never talkto one another are now connecting in the most fascinating ways, which then leads me to believe if you're able to do that right in these thes times when you're under hallucinogens, what parts of your everyday life can you unlock and what shit can you go through? And that's exactly what happened to you with your story with your business. Me with my relationship. Um, and that's why before they put, you know, the ban on drugs already, Um uh, during the sixties, they were doing deep studies with therapists, just like shamans would, um, with Iowa Oska. You know, down in South America, take people through these, you know, Chamonix rituals, right toe really purge the mind, the body and the soul. Um, you know, go through PSD, PTSD, depression and and different shit. They would do the same thing in the States, but ah, with a therapist. And they were finding that the percentage rate just with addiction, let's put alcohol or cigarettes. Right? Um, if you had, like, I don't know the type of stuff that they had back in the sixties. But though the rate of people quitting for one year out was fucking fascinating.

Matt Lindley :   37:15
Yeah, and I and I think even just folks suffering from depression like condensing, you know how much you know what would take? You know, a year's worth of therapy could be done with, you know, one or two. You know, psychedelics

Brock Goldberg:   37:29
will look at me, right? I'm like, it's This is the most open I've been about it, right? But I'm so open about it now because I look at my life back then. It was such a short period of time, right? But it's changed my entire life and that these key moments in my life, especially those two that I just shared it's been so pivotal. I can't believe it. Even with us when we went on the camping trip, right? I'm sitting here vaping right now, but I used to smoke cigarettes. I smoked a fuck ton, and, um, I quit, like, eight years ago. And then I started up a couple years ago, and we went on that trip, and, um, when we went up to where the hell did we go?

Matt Lindley :   38:07
Um, Alabama Hill, Alabama Hills, Alabama hills. Camping? Yeah, Base amount Whitney. Beautiful,

Brock Goldberg:   38:13
fucking gorgeous trip. And I remember I couldn't stop quitting cigarettes. I just for some reason, I thought I was in control and I could quit, and then just I couldn't fucking do it. Right. And when we went through that LSD experience, I was like, I'm fucking done smoking cigarettes, right? I didn't say that. I wouldn't Vape again, but I said I was done smoking cigarettes. Well, I haven't had a lot of that. That is it. I have no desire to smoke a cigarette. Nothing. It was like it was literally like like like a witch to our magician just sucked it out of me, right? And it was incredible. And, um, I think that I really wanted to and I was ready. Um, and I'm actually gonna be doing the same exact thing at the end of this month. I'm sick and parrot of a being right. I'm just done. And, uh, after I go through this big event called SSC that felon weekend, I'm gonna go through an experience by myself. Uh, do strong doses, psilocybin and ah, dose of GMT the next day, kind of double it down. And I truly believe by the end of that weekend, I won't be vaping anymore, you know? And it's just tools that we use to get us along the way that can really unlock different parts of our brain. So it's ah,

Matt Lindley :   39:29
really fascinating, you know? And just how they're looked at in society, you know, I don't really have a have a have a bad rap.

Brock Goldberg:   39:35
Oh, my gosh, people. Yeah, but who would have thought that Denver and Oakland would be criminalized it, right? Yeah, that's already have. I mean, I believe so. I could be wrong. So if I'm wrong, I do apologize.

Matt Lindley :   39:46
No. Portland police, you know, soon behind it. Or organ.

Brock Goldberg:   39:50
Absolutely. I mean, we're we're on this way where, you know, the internet has brought a couple things really good and bad, right? You say either work, but it's brought a lot of information on, and it's open the eyes up to many, many people. And so we're really at this pivotal time in this generation where we are saying you know what, fuck you to the generation. You know, generations before us. We need to be living by our own standards Now doesn't mean everything's gonna change absolutely not. But just with the idea that you know so assignment could be decriminalized with,

Matt Lindley :   40:22
Well, I think it goes back. Thio, um, you know what I was saying earlier is instead of subscribing to the same old you know, um, program like, let's let's, let's you know, let's be critical thinkers about it. Like, let's let's why Why are we doing this? Yes. You know who does that benefit? Who does it hurt? Um, and what are the benefits and what are the negative aspects? You know, it was for everything. There's there are both sides, of course. Um but, uh, yeah, just It's wild to me that in, you know, and even are, ah, lifetime that, you know, um, marijuana went from being, you know, even when we were kids, like, probably some parts in Nevada, like you sure spend a long time in jail now where you know, right off of my exit off the freeway to get to my house. There's, I think, a 60 acre. It's, you know, him farm.

Brock Goldberg:   41:19
Just saying it's literally in san, Remember, as a kid looking at high times and always dreaming and wishing to go to Amsterdam because That's where cannabis was allowed. And now it have what, 10 or 11 states become recreationally legal and, like, 30 plus become a distant legal. I mean, we're in the next phase, 5 10 years from now, Max, where it will become federally legal. Who would have thought right if you just jumped back a generation? People were getting locked up. Left and right are things that destroyed. It's insane. I mean, just think about it. You know, you if you're just selling a little bit of grass, right, and you get locked up for all of this time, not only doesn't affect you, but it affects your family effects if you have kids, right, and it's literally a plant that ah has a lot of amazing benefits. And I'm not saying that it doesn't like if you are prone to schizophrenia. And you started? Yes, that could be early set on, but early on set, but as a whole, right? What? Ah, a few 1000 people die a year from Excedrin or Tylenol, whatever it is, right? Does that mean it's bad? No, absolutely not. If it's used correctly, can help out a lot. Should I get headaches? All the time Excedrin helps me. Right? So, um Oh, and cannabis is definitely a lot better for so many different aspects. So to really see this pivotal shift, it is very sad to see what it's done to the past. But, you know, if we really can make this change for the future, I think that we can be on the right path with these certain hot topics. Panadol is so kind of jumping back a little bit getting back to your story, and we'll come back to other things for sure. S so you you were up in Oregon, right? Um, after it was this before or after you had kids.

Matt Lindley :   43:08
So, uh, I had my first son got in in Oregon, and he was he was born really early. So, uh, my wife at the time her water broke at 26 weeks out of the 40 40 we have, you know, period on. And then we're in the hospital for three weeks on. Then he was delivered at 28 weeks and, you know, some change

Brock Goldberg:   43:31
have a new scare.

Matt Lindley :   43:31
And he was, so he weighed the re pounds two ounces when he was born, and then went down to £2. 14 ounces. You know, you just lose a little bit of weight normally and just, you know, tiny Tiny spent two months in the nick. You was never on a ventilator. You know, um I mean, just all things considered, you know, did incredible. Um, and it's amazing to me, Thio, just think about how far we've come. Even in the last decade in this area, Um, you know, the scientific improvements in, you know, neonatal care is just It blew my mind, having gone through that experience and then understanding just how far it's come in, you know? I mean, in a time period of if if this would have happened 10 20 maybe, 30 years ago, you know, it could have been a much, much, much different outcome. Um, so I I listen to ah, podcast the other day, Uh, this is from one of my favorite podcast called 99% invisible, and they just do a lot of investigative journalistic stories. One of them was called. It was called the inventory. Um, and I didn't know this. And so, apparently, around the turn of the century, there's no such thing as a nick you. There's

Brock Goldberg:   44:48
no such thing as an incubator. There he is.

Matt Lindley :   44:51
What? What happened was this. Ah, doctor. And I'm gonna I'm gonna screw up some of the elements. I think I was distracted by some of the details, but basically what would happen is if your child was born prematurely. They set up these side shows at the world Fair and carnivals where this doctor had, you know, basically started learning and, you know, creating these incubators because they saw that it was actually saving these Children's lives. But they the hospitals wouldn't support them. A doctor said No, this is this is pseudo science they wouldn't get on board. And so what you'd have is almost like a reality show where people and even doctors would If you're you know, if you had a child that was born at a certain stage, you'd say we can't help you Here, go to the World Fair. They tell you to go to the world fair and almost like a reality show. What people would show up every every week and see like they track their favorite baby like, How's this baby doing? Is this baby surviving? You know I mean, it's it's why I like that's And this was this was the turn of the last century

Brock Goldberg:   46:00
not that long ago. One person ago it

Matt Lindley :   46:03
took, I think, 30 or 40 years before hospitals finally got on board and said, Oh, like we should start, We should start on, you know? And then So the doctor, I forget his name. I'm not gonna remember, But the person who and I don't think is a real doctor, but he I mean, he had a passion for this, and I think a big part of it was he realized like he was saving babies live, you know, he was saving lives and for sure. And so he got pretty, you know, pretty big and was even lending them to, you know, Summerlee Adopting doctors, you know, off season off the world Fair season. Lending has inventory because, you know, for free because, you know, again realized that this was so important. So it's just, you know, it's interesting to think that, uh, let's just say, 100 years ago, 100 years ago, my son was born like that. He would have never survived. No, not a Not a

Brock Goldberg:   46:53
chance not a chance.

Matt Lindley :   46:54
Um, and now you know he's

Brock Goldberg:   46:56
he's thriving. That's incredible. It's just to think that the ingenuity of this one man on he wouldn't take no for an answer. So he brings it to the world fair. I mean, imagine if they started doing surgeries and shit like that at our world's fair. The county fair, right? It's like it wouldn't even be It would be not grass for its expertise, exactly. But that's like our generation, and I don't mean for sure. It's like our generation's Elon Musk, right? So you want must said, You guys aren't doing rockets correctly. You guys aren't doing Carr's crackers, so I'm gonna do it on my own, right? And this is how I'm gonna do it, right? So it's like that same thought process will fuck you guys. If you're not gonna listen and you're not going to step out of the box, Well, then I'm gonna do it my way, right, And And if your son was born 100 years ago, the chances of him living were slim to none of my not right and and going through that, um, that would really be a horrific experience I mean, being a father, this is your first kid comes out a few pounds. It's not what a normal baby would look like when they come out. So just that and then you have to be in the hospital for months. What was that like?

Matt Lindley :   48:01
You know, it's wild. So first of all, first child, you know, I think I have all the control in the world as faras planning the birthing experience, right? I think that's kind of a little bit of the comic relief in this is that may be tragic comedy, but you know, you you realize, like, you just you don't have control over this like, great make a plan that's important, you know? Do you come up with some of the things that you think are important to make it? You know, because it is a beautiful experience can be should be a beautiful experience. And even in the case of my son, it was still a beautiful experience. Um, but that Yeah, that was less number one because we had a whole, like water birth. You know, we had a doula. We had all you wanted to go all natural, you know? No drugs. Uh, and it was his opposite, as could be an emergency Caesarean on DDE. Uh, yeah. You know, we want to do the whole delayed court clamping, you know, to make sure the placenta can get all the, you know, last vital nutrients. And, you know, I mean, just all this stuff, so But it was It was Yeah. I mean, it's definitely tough. I remember, um, it took me, I think, a day before I finally broke down and just started, you know, borrowing like crimes for, um because, you know, I usually like I'm pretty even keeled person in just your, um but And I remember the point where I was sitting outside, and I just felt like it finally got to me was so overwhelming, you know, I didn't know, You know, that is the fear of the unknown, not knowing, you know, what's what's gonna happen next and probably, you know, element of lack of sleep. Um, and I remember just just breaking down and bawling on a bench outside of the hospital and then, you know, picking myself, composing myself and walk walking back in. Uh, you know, sometimes you forget how good it feels to cry like feels Yes, on. I have another story about a good cry. Had it on an airplane after reading a book. Did you? Yeah, Well, just that, um but, uh, yeah, so it was, You know, I think the other thing that went well for us is we had an amazing hospital. This was in, believe it or not in Salmon Creek, Washington. Sam increase Democrat. Why, Iet's just north of the Columbia River across the border from Oregon in, like, just north of Vancouver. Washington. I didn't know there was a Vancouver Washington till I moved there. Actually built the

Brock Goldberg:   50:24
house that I was another funny tomorrow. Should I had no idea that

Matt Lindley :   50:26
Yeah. Yeah. Um, And so, Salmon Creek, this hospital, it was I mean, they had, you know, I think some of the you know, some of the top experts in the nation in the neonatal unit, they had private rooms. They have a shot like it was, you know, uh, my son was a $1,000,000 birth. Uh, well is over a $1,000,000 I paid I paid, I think, $3000 out of pocket for it on governed circumstantially and had had some of the best insurance at that time with the company I was working on so that you know all things. You know, when you're going through something that crazy, the last thing you wanna have to worry about is knows this covered. What's this gonna do to me financially? You know, that's the last thing you want to worry about. And I was lucky. I was really fortunate to have good insurance and be at a good facility,

Brock Goldberg:   51:14
man. Imagine if you didn't. But you made it.

Matt Lindley :   51:18
Yeah, so I was That was That was crazy. I think I've mentioned to two months in the nick. You? Yeah, uh, he came home on my birthday.

Brock Goldberg:   51:25
That great birthday present on my birthday. So that was cool on how old is he now? Uh, grease in the seven. So seven years ago,

Matt Lindley :   51:34
First grade. So congratulations. You know? Yeah, it's Ah, it's just it seems like, you know, eons ago and then it also kind of seems like yesterday.

Brock Goldberg:   51:43
I mean, elements in reality, it was yesterday, but I can understand eons ago, and, um, just going through that traumatic experience, um, and it's something you said is you. You're You are fortunate that you did have good insurance Is $3000 for a $1,000,000 tab? Imagine all the parents out there going through something very similar. And this is what happens every single day that have shitty insurance or no insurance. And

Matt Lindley :   52:09
what was frustrating is looking at, you know, some of the bills And, you know, and I remembered some of these visits, the doctors would walk in, they'd have a five minute conversation and you'd get build, like $3000 for that. And I was, you know, I mean, there's there's

Brock Goldberg:   52:23
some broken for sure shit going absolutely three minutes. The five minutes, 10 minutes, $3000 I can. Fucking kidding me like it's great that, you know, your your baby and Grayson is alive and he's he's doing fantastic, but, um, it is absurd. It's really absurd.

Matt Lindley :   52:40
That's that's definitely Fry. And I know a lot of people share that frustration with contact. Just got an email today, you know, with my you know, my my health care costs, you know, hiked up $400

Brock Goldberg:   52:52
a month knowing that's just insanity, right? Every single year, it continues to go up and up and up and up. And it gets to a point where we have so many people that don't have the money to afford it where we are in the situation where they have shitty to no insurance. Right? And so how do we take care of the people that are getting older or the younger generation just in general, from the younger generation to the boomers? Right. Um, I have no idea. Cancers, you

Matt Lindley :   53:19
know, I know the math is kind of stacked against us with, you know, what we have with generations that are gonna be retiring and then, you know, with even a lack of people producing and putting into that system to take care of, you know, we're just We're top heavy on Yes, retirees on dhe. That's gonna be a significant problem. It is a problem, and it's gonna it's gonna continue to grow like I don't I don't know if we have a

Brock Goldberg:   53:43
solution. I don't think that you and I can figure out that solution, but maybe you but definitely not me.

Matt Lindley :   53:51
No. I mean, nothing's changing. Know we're doing the same shit. So it's going to continue to be a problem.

Brock Goldberg:   53:58
Ah, 100%. And it's ah, it's it's insanity. I mean, I fucking hate to say this, but the baby boomer generation is the one that created all these fucking problems and the generation before, right. And now they're getting older and meaning we have to take care of them like, and it's just like, what do we do? We can't just say fuck them, right? We can't say fuck Fuck you to anyone.

Matt Lindley :   54:22
Yeah. I don't think I don't think we should ever say

Brock Goldberg:   54:24
no. No, definitely. No, no. Definitely.

Matt Lindley :   54:26
I think, um, you know, I think there's some There's some positive data that we can look at as well. And that's that, Um, you know, you look at the poverty level worldwide and hunger, and that's come down a significant, you know, absolutely. I think along the way there's, you know, and we look at our technology and, you know, just controlling disease. And I mean, look at what we're doing with crisper and being able to, you know, eliminate certain genetic, you know, deficiencies. Absolutely. Um and, uh, you know, But but but I agree. You know, something's gotta change with the system.

Brock Goldberg:   55:03
Of course, the system is definitely broken. But just like you said we are. Ah, you know when just like anything, you kind of get pushed into this corner. You either fight your way out, are you? You stay in that corner and and I do see people like I believe his name's boy on slot created the ocean cleanup crew system, right? Ah, and his goal is to clean up the great Pacific garbage patch within five years or half of it. I don't want to get my numbers off, but he's been able to create this device that is definitely getting all the plastic out of the ocean. Right on. Now we have tons of people. This millennial generation that is really frickin blowing my mind away with so much. Yeah, absolutely. So I do think that we're on the verge of things changing. And it wasn't like fuck you to the baby boom generation. Never, Never, never, Never, never, Never, Never. You know, that's definitely not what I meant. But it's just that the point I was going to get is that he had that generation before us that did create a lot of these issues, right? And they're getting older. But then we have this generation, our generation, my generation that is really being health conscious and really looking outside of the box and really trying to look at the world in a new way. So I do believe that there is this turning point and we might have you know, all of these issues, but I I hopefully release. I'm an optimist that we're going to solve a lot of them as time goes. So, you

Matt Lindley :   56:41
know, the unfortunate part is, I think we tend to solve a lot of problems when it's hit critical mass on DDE. You know, I mean, is that it's Yeah, I think I don't think we'll ever kind of dig our way out of, you know, certain ways where we've damaged, you know, created damage. However I am, I am hopeful that, you know, um, uh, I'm hopeful that, you know, we can solve some of the more significant challenges that air really pulls it, posing a threat to our existence. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because that's, you know,

Brock Goldberg:   57:15
it's it's ah, yeah. So just like you, I'm optimistic. I'm hopeful, uh, that that type will turn obviously all the problems, we're not gonna get solved. And yes, we do wait until it's about to be two later, Sometimes when it is too late. Ah, but I do hope this dynamic shift is happening so that some of these really key issues do get solved. Uh, getting back to your story. So after you had your first kid, what happened next? How did you end up in California?

Matt Lindley :   57:43
Yeah, So, um, we, you know, in Pacific Northwest Ah, lot of weather. And I mean, I loved I consider that, you know, home almost more than Southern California. Although I can't complain like it's beautiful down here, but I just There's something about and maybe part of it was my roots and pressure growing up in the country, but I lived kind of not in the country. I mean, I lived in a neighborhood suburban neighborhood, built a house there, but it was also like I lived on, you know, I think almost 1/2 acre, And so there's land. You know, you could see the stars at night on, and I remember in the summer time just looking up at the stars and, you know, uh, you know, I try to remind myself like how you know, Thio tried to stay connected to nature. And I remember looking at the stars almost every night and be like, this is this is why I moved here. Yeah, you know, for

Brock Goldberg:   58:34
sure is breathtaking if you've never It

Matt Lindley :   58:37
is Yeah. And, you know, and even in the winter when it's raining, I mean, I don't really let it bother me. I kind of tend to like the cooler weather. Sure. Um, so, uh, however, with a you know Ah ah, Mom, with her first child, Um who, you know, definitely needed some more attention earlier on just because of his, you know, medical issues minor. But, you know, he had that, remember, his reflux was just awful and so painful for him, you know, just cause his gut wasn't developed enough and esophagus to be able to prevent acid from coming up. So that was that was that was pretty, you know, pretty rough. Um, but, you know, she kind of felt like she didn't really have a good support system. Um, I had a great job, love. My job was you know, I don't say working too much, but, you know, I also wasn't We didn't She didn't have any help. So I think for her, And understandably, just got too overwhelming. We had family back in California, so we decided to move back after a couple 34 years. Uh, just, you know, for the family and then

Brock Goldberg:   59:44
not make sense. Yeah, it makes sense. It's at that at that point in your life where you had to make that decision, right? And, uh, you definitely made the right decision. Least I liketo hope and looking at your life now for as long as I've known you definitely coming back. And if you wouldn't have come back, you wouldn't be sitting here today.

Matt Lindley :   1:0:02
I mean, look, I You know, I'm kind of going back to that whole, you know, kind of create your own your own path. I mean, sometimes, you know, you're influenced by circumstances at play, of course. Um, but, uh, you know, if I were to look back at, you know, possibly having stayed, um, you know, I don't see how I would be any better off than I am now. And I'm I feel like I'm, you know, order in orders of magnitude in a better situation than I would have been out there, so, you know, no regret, Right? For sure it's Andi. Who knows? So it's hard to say that, right?

Brock Goldberg:   1:0:37
Of course. Of course. Right? Right. Right now, I'm definitely happy. Yeah, definitely looking at that. Your life from the that bird's eye view eso After you came back, you came to Santa Clarita first or

Matt Lindley :   1:0:52
s O Kate. Well, so yes and no, uh, moved in with my mom. I'm 30. How old was I when I moved back 30 Uh, 32. I want to say All right, Uh, moved in with my mom with a child and my wife at the time because we're still trying to sell our house up there. It's the market was much different. I couldn't afford toe by get a house that that decide my money locked up in the house we built. So, um, sold that house finally, after I want to say, you know, five or six months and then ended up moving at a mom's house out of Mom's have had a mom, a dad and a mom 32 32 years old, making it. Yeah, and moved to Santa Clarita on one of the reasons we moved there is because my wife at the time she had friends who lived up there with Children. And it was all so we could get more bang for a buck out there, have a bigger house, big back yard for the kids, stuff like that. Very nice. Um, so, yeah, that's, you know, moving up there again. Great decision. Because that's how I met you.

Brock Goldberg:   1:1:59
Yeah, I know. It's just crazy. I wouldn't be sitting here today. Things not transfer. Exactly. It's ah, it's It's pretty crazy. And then how? How long after when you moved back? Wait, First of NASA's ah, what company? Where you work in a world. Where were you doing? Let's say

Matt Lindley :   1:2:15
so in in in Portland, I worked at ah, you know, manage service's I T consulting company. I was doing, you know, strategic consulting for their clients at that point. And then when I came back, that's when I joined the company that, um ah, uh, where I ran their security practice on that was a company called Comment Technology Group in er, Chatsworth.

Brock Goldberg:   1:2:41
Very nice. Yes, and so that's that's what you're doing for them when you moved back. Um What year was this?

Matt Lindley :   1:2:50
I want to say 2012. 20 bucks. 2012.

Brock Goldberg:   1:2:53
Fucking awesome. Nice. And, um And then you stayed with the company for a while. Um, and you had your second kid?

Matt Lindley :   1:3:01
I had my second child in 2014. All right, Um, he was He was born in Mission Hills. Very nice. Emission. Hale's find find hospital. Definitely a much easier experience. Uh, were you nervous? 1st 1 yeah, but, you know, we had also learned a lot since then. You know, we had learned why, um, he I mean, she shouldn't have been able to just Medically, what was going on with there was a septic uterus. So there was just It was basically her uterus was half the size that it should be. Um, and there was no, like, just It was almost like pregnancy was almost unviable for her. So we got super fortunate with the first, and she had a surgery to fix the problem for a second child so that, you know

Brock Goldberg:   1:3:43
wow. Yeah. Mouth is like on the floor right now.

Matt Lindley :   1:3:45
Yeah. Yeah. So it's, you know, again like, Lookit, lookit. Our technology had is being able to identify that. Fix it. And, you know, we're able to bring another life into this world.

Brock Goldberg:   1:3:55
That's incredible. They were able to figure out the problem, fixed the problem, which then allowed you have another kid without really any complications or

Matt Lindley :   1:4:03
not. I was. Yeah, it was.

Brock Goldberg:   1:4:05
Yeah. And how do you have held your son?

Matt Lindley :   1:4:09
Uh, Liam is five now.

Brock Goldberg:   1:4:11
Here we go. 77 and a five year old, 5 22 months apart. Every go. Congratulations. Esso going through all of that. Um, then I don't know. What When did we meet? 2016 2017.

Matt Lindley :   1:4:24
Um, we probably met somewhere around there. 20. I would say 2016 right

Brock Goldberg:   1:4:30
around there. And I remember at the time meeting you cutting your hair. I was really starting to get into ah, crypto currency and and and blocked and technology for me. It just, like, opened my eyes up in ways that, um I just I never knew possible. I mean, I really didn't understand finance that we didn't understand money. And when you know the phrase Bitcoin first, you know, was shared with me. My friend Tyler Turner shared with me private 2015. I said fuck that. What is that, like? Just look stupid money. Right? And he goes just just by someone coined based on what the fuck that is, like Forget it, Right. And so then, um I don't know. Six months later, he brought it up again, and then it was probably 2016 2017 when he brought up to me, and I just did it to shut him up, Right? Um really had no idea what it was. He goes just still 50 bucks into it, and and then I remember my money. My $50 you know, like, 60 75. I think magic was like money. Man, wait a minute. You put a little bit of money and where's the scam? You know, like so expect straight up. And I was like, What the fuck is this? And then I started looking into Bitcoin and started really understanding about the financial, you know, the financial reserve and, uh, you know, just how we print money at out of pretty much than air and how it used to be back by at this time. I mean, really leading up to this. I thought the dollar was backed by gold. I mean, you ask a lot of people like yes, backed by gold and then you find out, Um, you know, Nixon in, like, 73. Fucking threw that out the window. And so now our dollar is backed by literally bullshit. And then I was like, Well, fuck ng about promises, exactly. Promises I o U's and and so then And the Bitcoin was created by Satou Shin Nakamoto and then the Blockchain. And what the fuck is that? And so I just started diving deeper and was like, Wait a minute. This isn't, you know, like made by some government are owned by a government or like a single person. And then you find out No, it's it's owned by the people. You know, um, that decide to put into it and the miners and on all of that, we don't really have to dive deep into that, But it just got me really thinking about, you know, my life and money and what it really meant. And and then I started to learn about a theory. Um, and I just got really excited and I remember talking with you and I don't know, it just kind of like it clicks.

Matt Lindley :   1:7:00
Yeah, I was super excited about it at the time. I had not. I don't think I had purchased any crypto when you and I we're talking. But I knew people who you know who had been holding crypto on. This was when the price was I want to say, uh, right around, like the 3 to $300 marks from around there. And then I remember it jumping right around that same time to, like, $700. And, you know, that kind of create created a little buzz, but yeah, you're I mean, you You know, I have you to thank for, you know, my journey with crypto, and this was I want to say, probably 2016 maybe 20

Brock Goldberg:   1:7:42
around that. Whatever it is, I just

Matt Lindley :   1:7:46
Yeah. Anyways, but But, um uh, but but it was interesting, because had that event not correlated. I mean, I you know, you and I, but we made a fuck ton of money.

Brock Goldberg:   1:7:58
Yeah, it was fucking awesome. It was fucking awesome. Just

Matt Lindley :   1:8:01
by, you know? Yeah. Interested and excited about it at the right time for sure. It could have always been earlier.

Brock Goldberg:   1:8:06
Yeah, I know you always think that always earlier I could have sold more in the pot packets, but to say, Look, I say lovey, and then I don't remember how it started. But I was like, I was watching all these YouTube videos and all the shit. I was like, Wow, I want to do the same thing, you know? And, um and then like, the gold block network was like this This idea, you know, that that stemmed from, like, you know, creating education and and letting more people know about, you know, Blockchain technology and crypto currencies. And and I, uh And I remember just talking with you, and you hopped on board. And, um, where do you go from there? We like the S o, I think. Where? So we I think you and

Matt Lindley :   1:8:46
I realized, like, a pretty early stage right after spending an hour, you know, together chatting while while you're cutting my hair. Um, that, you know, they're just Our minds were like when you put our minds together like beautiful things happen. All right. Super interesting conversation on super interesting ideas. I could tell that just hearing about some of your past experiences that you know, you're not just a idea, man, that you can also execute. And that's that brings me to an interesting quote that I remember hearing this is always stuck with me and its ideas are a dime a dozen. But it's you know, those who can execute, um, you know, are the ones who are gonna be successful, right? It comes down to execution at the end of this so much. And so, you know, I think that the combination of of us realizing, you know, who we are personalities and just having a great time together, no matter what. Having amazing conversations. Yeah, I think you You you know, you were very you're a You're an amazing educator. I'm an amazing person. But where I think you do just a phenomenal job is you can connect with people and in a way that is like helping them almost like mentoring them and educating them an amazing way. And I think that's where you got to you. Do you like look, Bitcoin is you know, it's a revolution. Blockchain is a revolution like, you know, this is I think it's, you know, important for us to you know, number one be involved in this just cause. It's such an exciting realm, but be involved in a way that contributes and you know how, you know, educates people. And and so you think you brought that idea to me, and I'm, like, sign me up?

Brock Goldberg:   1:10:28
I was. I was. And I remember filming our first video down in San Diego. Man way got so into way. Got all, like, the poster boards out, and we I got a camera. We, like, did all these different, like, unique shots and then built this old just like interest got out of town we scattered around. I mean, we're, like, real deal producers. Or at least we thought at the time, I thought it was so much fun. You know, just really going through that process, putting it together, um, and and and just fucking doing it right. And although it didn't work out, we can still look back at those videos. We can still look back at that time on. Be really proud of ourselves, right?

Matt Lindley :   1:11:15
I mean, it worked out. It was a project that we did a project for a period of time. And, you know, I don't think we were going in there trying to make a 1,000,000. That is true that her $1,000,000,000 these days, But yeah, it was, you know, um, it was it was

Brock Goldberg:   1:11:29
a great experience. Wasit was. We set our mind to it. You fucking dated, right? And still to this day, all my facebook, we get like dings, like two views, 10 views, 20 views on the videos and s

Matt Lindley :   1:11:39
for your listeners. The premises we were, you know, putting together. You know, uh, you know, episodic Siris on, you know, both kind of the, you know, history behind What? What is Bitcoin? Why is it so important? And then, um you know, also just having kind of up, you know, conversations around what's going on? Why is this important? What does this mean? And then another side track where it was how to convert your 401 k to Bitcoin, which is something that I did very thankful that I did that for sure. Andi, I don't think we got too far down that track before, you know, I think both of our lives got a little too busy, um, on a personal front, but yeah, but it

Brock Goldberg:   1:12:25
was still phenomenally cool and then so crazy How easy these things are now And like just the wide reach of of ah, the whole community And and yes, it fucking shot upto like $20,000 then came down and hit like 14 grand and 2019 went toe like seven. Whatever the hell it is right now, Right? But it's not. This isn't something that's going thio be this short term making fucking a millionaire. This is a long term idea of putting the financial, um, putting finances back into your own pocket, being able to really be in control of your own money. And I do believe that the generation after me generation zero back there called They're the ones that everything is digital. Everything they do, you millennial. They know that's all they know. Millennials grew up before it and into it right where this generation this is all they know, right? And as you have places like what's happening in Hong Kong in Syria, Venezuela, all these just financial catastrophes and Andi just being able to be in control of your himself Zimbabwe right thing. This idea of Bitcoin and putting money on the block chain will be Whatever it is, it's Bitcoin or something that we don't even know right now. There will be something in the years to come.

Matt Lindley :   1:13:51
We'll what are some of the key points to me, it's 1/3 of bank. Third of the world is unthinkable, right? Roughly. Really right. And so what this does is it's It's something that you know, anyone anyone save, you know, have their own money. Then there's you have Remittance, right? No intermediary, no fees. You know, uh, no conversion, like you just you have your you know, you send Bitcoin from point A to point B, and it retains, you know, nearly all its value gas be stuff like that. Ah, And then you have the, um, the fact that it is a, um ah, non. What would you call it down to push? It doesn't

Brock Goldberg:   1:14:28
appreciate it. Oh, my God. I'm drawing a blank inflation and

Matt Lindley :   1:14:32
deflation. So, you know, no one's known confront mawr. In fact, it's a limited resource 1 21 million. Many of those already lost making Probably not much more valuable. You know, if it is looked at in the right way on, then at the at the very end of it At the stem of it, you have Blockchain which is just this powerhouse of the thing that can, you know, solve so many problem some and whether or not Bitcoin is gonna be a form of currency Whatever

Brock Goldberg:   1:14:58
Blockchain is here to stay

Matt Lindley :   1:14:59
Blockchain is here to stay. I do think Bitcoin I still believe in Bitcoin is a store of value abscess of that you know, defensive deflationary currency. Oh,

Brock Goldberg:   1:15:07
for sure. I'm a huge believer Point. I still invest a little bit every single month into it. Um, still holding onto mine and that that that that being said, it's like 1/3 of the bank is on bank or 1/3 of the population is, um, bankable put the fuck. And you know, these thes micro change actually deserve everyone. Absolutely right. People don't realize that. You know a lot of these people when we say 1/3 of the world is, um, bankable. That's people living off of less than $2 a day, right? In some places, $2 a week, $2 a month, right? And if you can't, uh, you know that the cost of a transaction on like a visa on 40 cents is just insanity, right? It's not even worth. And a lot of times you can't even do transactions that low. What does that mean for people that live off of less than $2 a day? So we need to be able to find ways that really puts the power back into the people and the fun of a deflationary currency. Well, that the U. S dollar, they print millions and millions and billions of it, you know, every single year is so when you're when you're talking about something, that there's only 21 million of them and that's all there over B and then some of them already been lost. What does that do long term, right? For you know, one individual Bitcoin and people don't. Lot of people don't realize it's like you don't have to just investor by one Bitcoin you conversions, you can go on square the square cash happened by like a dollar's worth of Bitcoin, right? So, uh, these micro transactions that really open up the doors to these people that are a bankable Well, now this can really change the paradigm, because once you include these people into the that this free market system that we have What what does it do that it gives them? Possibility gives them the chance to really be a part of this whole ecosystem. Um, and they've really not been served for a very long time. But with the financial tech revolution that is happening before our eyes, I do believe that these people were will become more and more included. Um And so for me, crypto currency and Blockchain technology revolutionized my whole entire life. I never thought about even stocks I never thought about really, you know, saving other than, like, cash And, you know, different places to put my money. So my money turned you into the

Matt Lindley :   1:17:26
world of, you know, investing for your future.

Brock Goldberg:   1:17:28
Exactly. Education man is the key, and we're not teaching. You know, kids. I never learned this from on high

Matt Lindley :   1:17:34
school. You learn, you know, history which don't

Brock Goldberg:   1:17:38
get me wrong. History is important. It is. But

Matt Lindley :   1:17:40
however like, come on, like there's, you know,

Brock Goldberg:   1:17:42
they're they're they're they're history is very important. But, like, uh, there's just so many things that they teach in school that you get to a point when you're in 10th 11th grade you gotta be. You have to be teaching people life skills. It's like, sure, all of this other shit is important. But if they do not even know howto uh, you know, I was gonna say balance a checkbook. But checkbooks are slowly but surely getting thrown out the window if they don't know how to do a tax and do their taxes, invest for the future, make a fucking do their laundry, make food thing, put things up on the wall, whatever the heck it is, right. I really get

Matt Lindley :   1:18:23
people rely on YouTube, T

Brock Goldberg:   1:18:25
exactly. And I bet and that. But fuck, man, YouTube's amazing. Why should know you're being serious. It's like, Why do people have to rely on YouTube? These young kids, if we can't get them ready and prepared for the real world, what else are we going to do? And you have other countries like the Netherlands, when they turn 16 years old, they go to a trade school for two years and they go stay like on I don't know, like dorms or things like that. I could be wrong about that, but I know once they hit 16 they do go to a trade school for two years before they go into a university. And this trade school does set them up for re a world ideas rule of tactics and get some prepared so that when they do go into ah University, they know how to live and be prepared for their life. I had a good friend have a good friend, Olivia. She's from the Netherlands, and that's exactly what she was talking about. And and this is just what we're lacking in the United States of America is really educating these kids for the real world because there comes a time in a place where you know, history and English and math and science, they're very important. But if they don't have the basic necessities and tools to become a real human being, all those things could get thrown out the window.

Matt Lindley :   1:19:39
Yeah, I think just generally as a culture, we are really good at addressing pride. This goes back to like, you know, fixing problems when they're at a critical mass is addressing problems, you know, at the surface, Um, and we're not really good at looking at, you know, fixing root cause, um And so things like, you know, investing more in our teachers and our education system versus, you know, whatever it is, you know, I don't want to get into a political conversation over necessarily. But, you know, if we were as you know, I think as humans and maybe even culturally that, you know, we are not as good as some other cultures as, as, you know, really kind of making long term investments into, You know, some of these larger issues, which they're not gonna get fixed immediately know that we're not We're not even addressing them at all.

Brock Goldberg:   1:20:28
You know, if you don't address as far as I'm aware, No, that's a That's a that's a fact. And so we just have all of these things thrown at us right now is where is the U S going? Um, in my opinion, if we don't get this shit taken care of, like if we don't really start investing into our teachers into into creating new ways to get our younger generation ready for the real world in so many other things you have you have different cultures, like like china, for instance, that if people say this all time, but they're going to become the dominant force.

Matt Lindley :   1:21:02
Oh, no doubt. So they own five g. They own the global, and that's information they own. Information now were I believe China's our single biggest threat. I believe that people should start learning Chinese. I don't know. But you know, you know, you're not I think, um, yeah, I think there's gonna be I think the next 10 years air gonna be ah, very interesting shift for Americans because I think we're going to start to see in significant ways. Um you know, uh, us kind of shift away from a global power, too, you know. Ah, competing There's gonna be other people grabbing that steering wheel pretty soon. For sure. I'm there already are. But

Brock Goldberg:   1:21:50
oh, abs absolute. Absolutely. You have China creating their own crypt, though, right there. Their own digital currency. Why? Because they want to bypass the U. S. Dollar. Uh, right now, the world's reserve currency, if you is the U. S. Dollar and by creating this digital currency will now allows them to transact with other countries that they wouldn't normally, uh, you know, do in the way they would because they would be using the U. S. Dollars. So if they can use a digital currency that back by the the wand or I think that's how you pronounce it, uh, then you start to, uh, get these other countries thinking, Okay, well, I don't need the u. S. Dollar. I can start using this. Um, and you have China investing into, uh, you know, other Have you have the investing into, like, African countries, building roads, really helping build their infrastructure, building roads that lead back to China, building exactly building that road from them. Tyronn. Ah, the my thought process behind that is like, um, you know, back in the sixties when we built the interstate highways and we built, you know, the roads that lead the east to the west, in the west to the east, we had this huge dynamic change in America that we had not seen up into this point really, really building up towns and cities that if there wasn't any type of transportation routes, they would have never gotten built up. So you take someone like China who's investing into these African countries investing in T building that road to Iran.

Matt Lindley :   1:23:24
Growth is gonna just

Brock Goldberg:   1:23:25
just said, ironically, skyrocket for them for China. And then what do you have? 50 years down the road? Who were they gonna back when some shit goes wrong? The people that invested into them or the country that said me, Me, me, me, me. Right. So, uh, yeah, there's this huge paradigm shift in and even getting back to your point with five g five g is the future, right? And if we don't have any control on that, well, who controls the information? I don't know. You would know. You would know more than me. So, uh, before we talk a little bit about fiber security, looking back at everything, uh, in your life did you always know that you wanted to get in a cyber security? I think I was.

Matt Lindley :   1:24:10
I was interested. I remember, uh, you know, when the internet was just starting toe, you know, become popular. Remember having, you know, beat being into computers? Pretty immediately. I loved as a kid take things apart and put him back together. There we go, um, and with computers, you know, and then you add the internet to that. There was just all of a sudden this just kind of to me. Ah, really interesting world where I discovered if you knew a little bit more than most people, you could manipulate the system a little bit, right? You could, you know, you could do things that it almost, you know, you almost felt, you know, you have this feeling of, like, power almost right where you were a, you know, expert and could kind of just own this. The space that other people were, you know, also involved in, um and I would I wouldn't ever consider myself a hacker. I'm not, um I never really went down that road too much. I don't think I have the patients, you know to be developer. And that's where I think you know, you really need to focus a lot of you need to be a pretty good, you know, software writer Andi understand, you know, computer coding language to be a proficient hacker. Um, but I got really interested in just the, you know, connecting and controlling your environment at basic levels. And I remember, you know, having a computer in my room and staying up all night just playing around and exploring. And I think this is even before, you know America Online and doing, you know, bulletin board systems. And, um and, uh, you know, the one. You just download stuff, You know that. Ah, you know, I don't wantto, um uh, you know, make any any statements that did illegal things, but, you know, it was I mean, we, you know, I had a blast, and then I got together with a group of friends, and then we were, you know, at a certain point, look, we were teenagers, so we for sure caused a little havoc on, you know, America Online. And, you know, did you know some silly stuff with credit cards? But, you know, So I was just I was just I was kind of interested in that aspect. And then as I got older, um, you know, in high school, I wasn't Ah, you know, I wasn't a very focused student. I generally did pretty well on tests, and so I you know, I got by, but I was, you know, also I think immature a little bit during high school, and, you know, I want a skateboard with my friend. Sure. You know, like like many, many people, but I wasn't a disciplined student during high school. Not that, you know, After high school, I went to community college because I wasn't very disciplined students. So that was kind of my best option. I don't even think I took the S A. T s. I know I didn't take the, um um And, uh, it wasn't until, um, you know, probably a year, year and 1/2 after, um, I was in community college that, um you know, my mom looking Ashton wants toe, you know, like I was living living at home, going to community college, just like, Hey, there's this trade school UtdTech you know, when I was still interested in computers, but not spending a ton of my time there. Um, I'm like, Okay, that sounds interesting. Like, I'll check it out because you know, when you don't have purpose. I did not purpose as I didn't. I wasn't full. So I started going to school almost immediately after. You know, I got a job at a start up company was a really interesting company. They made touch screen computers that got put in the cockpit of aircraft that digitized everything. So you have your you know when you're flying in airports, your approach plates in your maps and telling you what angle will run away. All that stuff, which traditionally was paper. And you have this big book you have to carry around the whole raid every, you know, two weeks. So have to go into the binder. You have to replace the updates and the last time, and, you know, and so these things are becoming digitize your logbooks in flight weather. You know, lightning strike, I think costs, you know, in their airline, $11,000 every time they get hit with a lightning. So if they can avoid weather, you know, when lightning strikes, saves them quite a bit of money. And so when I got when I started with this company, just I was going to school. Um, you know, for I think the program was an associate's degree for computer networking and I got to set up their whole network. I got I was there, you know, technical support. I would configure all the machines, I would ship them out. I was operations. And then the company, you know, grew We started developing our own hardware, so I was working with the manufacturing manufacturers doing all the specs, Uh, you know, get to try the gun and dabbled in sales a little bit. Got to travel toe. You know, we were pitching American Airlines for multi $1,000,000 deals. I got to participate in that. I was pretty. It was pretty green, you know, in my young twenties. And this is just still going to school full time. And I was I was working, so I was going to school at night, full time, Um, and working, you know, good. 60 sometimes, like 70 hours a week. So I was I was killing myself. But I was, you know, I was I was purpose, like I really enjoyed it. And this was I think, my first You know what I would call career, right? Part of that, I worked at Macy's, worked at pickup sticks. Nice for a brief, brief time

Brock Goldberg:   1:29:40
period. Could only sustain your sure coming home smelling like cream cheese. Want Tom a sexual taste

Matt Lindley :   1:29:47
me? Um, yeah, but ah, yes. It was my first kind of career. And, um, and there's always still in interest of cybersecurity. Although, you know, I was mostly focused on just kind of the setting up business systems and email servers and, you know, domain controllers. And And I was kind of learning that same stuff. And so after the associate program ended, they had just developed a information system security program. So actually got my bachelor's degree with a focus on cyber security. That's, um and, uh, coming out of that, um program. You know, I was still doing a lot of, um, think at the time. Then when I graduated, I was still working at that first startup company. They eventually went belly up because ipads came out and completely changed everything. Visit $8000 computer no longer made sense. Not So.

Brock Goldberg:   1:30:43
Was that while you were there?

Matt Lindley :   1:30:45
Uh, no, I I left. I left that company. Um, I left the company before they went belly up, but I did have a significant amount of stock that, you know, sad to see, You know, you know, into dust. That's you know, that's all right. All right. That was my first job. What am I? You know, I can't expect to become a millionaire on, you know, my first round it would

Brock Goldberg:   1:31:08
have been so nice. It would

Matt Lindley :   1:31:09
have been so totally agree. So, uh, yeah. So I, um you know, after I left that company, um, kind of joined up with a buddy of mine who was doing residential service is ah, with my experience in business systems on my you know, let's let's help build, you know, you're you know, let's let's help build the business and get more into toe. You know, business customers. And so I did that for about a year before a business, then bought us out and had me come on toe lead, you know, to do that same thing for that. Very nice. Yeah. So this was, you know, again, as you know, my second kind of start up Xer. Sure I did. A young age did that for a while, and that's when I decided, you know, um, basically ran a, you know, manage Service's company. A small one in Orange County. Um, I think we're only about six people by the time I left. Um, and that's when you know I didn't have kids, and I'm, like, you know, wanted to try something new, get out of Dodge. And that's when I moved to Oregon with with my wife at the time, leaving that company and joining another, larger manage service's company I T services company. How agree, then? Um 29.

Brock Goldberg:   1:32:24
29. 29. Yes. Story. How old do you need to first get,

Matt Lindley :   1:32:28
um 2032

Brock Goldberg:   1:32:32
33 days. There we go. It's perfect age. Yeah, you know, I

Matt Lindley :   1:32:35
mean, you know, it is what it is for sure, but I'm Yeah, uh, I you know, it's I think it is a good age because I'm you know, I think I could be, you know, rad dad, right? I'm stable. Uh, and you know, I have the patience and the, you know, mental aptitude to give them the best life, which is my number one goal

Brock Goldberg:   1:32:55
for sure. Do you wish you had kids younger?

Matt Lindley :   1:32:58
Uh, no. I mean you. No, no, no regrets. I wish life didn't go as planned, right? I wish. I wish I would have had Children with someone who, you know, could still grow with. I mean, who you know who had course? Um, and it's unfortunate, but at the same time, it's, you know, no, like, I love my life. I love home set up right now,

Brock Goldberg:   1:33:18
and you're in. Ah, you're in a good position. Yeah, right. So I mean, going through all of that, you know, you went through their forces. A kid. You've gone through your own divorce, but knowing and understanding that it was the right decision. All right. Um, and it is unfortunate that you can't grow, but who knows what the future holds for you, Right? Right. Absolutely. And you're like you said, You're a rad Dad. Dad, Dad, you're looking on my little pat on the back. But, you

Matt Lindley :   1:33:50
know, it's I I do take a lot of pride. And, you know, um, they're my I think, my biggest project. My biggest challenge. My mother. You know, they're my biggest business. That I have to make the most successful, you know, out of everything. And it's, you know, it's That's my personal challenge.

Brock Goldberg:   1:34:06
That's awesome. Yeah. I want more people toe. Look, att, uh, their kids like that. No, Uh, what you just said hit the nail mad as they grow older. Uh, how important is teaching them about cyber security?

Matt Lindley :   1:34:22
I mean, you know, I I don't think as long as we have technology, it's going to be an issue. You know that World War Three is going on, you know, you know, not missiles and rockets, but ones and zeros. Way of nation states attacking everyone Have you know, China, North Korea, Russia are probably some of the top, you know, threats. Right now you're on has a pretty sophisticated, you know, um, program a CZ. Well, um, and you know Ah, I mean, I think it's it's it's always gonna be an issue in some way shape, you know, or ah, form. And so which brings me to what? What I'm doing right now. And that's I work at company called an NGO, and we d'oh. Ah, security awareness training. Um, and the best way I'd like to describe it as we make cartoons to educate people how not to get hacked. There we got. When you look at the statistics, I think it's over 90. Maybe 93% is the last statistic. Um, in 93% of breaches, you know, human factor 90 for a reason. Yeah, And so, you know, people are not hacking systems. I mean, it's still are, but they're essentially you're the target. Is people, right? That's the attack Vector is people social engineering, email scams, you know, financial scams, wire money fraud, business email, compromise, getting someone's password and causing havoc. And so the company I'm working with and this was this This was kind of my you know, what led me here is when I was running my own company, one of the things that actually before that I'll back up when I was doing just, you know, I t you know, supporting businesses. They would get hacked, right? And nine out of 10 times. It was because, you know, someone opened up an email, clicked on the link and launched ransomware that locked all their systems Are someone wired money because they got an email that looked like it came from their boss. And it was urgent email, and they did it. Just out of human nature were gullible creatures. I am in that same category, Usher, right? I'm not gonna suggest that I'm not gullible, but, um, and so, you know, going through that and seeing kind of, you know, it's a devastating process for business and for the people who are involved. Um, you know, I can share some personal stories where, you know, in one case, company almost lost $10 million a hack. Another company lost 147 unrecoverable, $250,000 unrecoverable in there, people who wired money, following instructions what they thought and then at, you know, um I mean, how would you feel, as you know, being responsible for potentially companies go out of business? I just read a story. It was, Ah, a set of manufacturing company somewhere. I don't remember the details, but they got ransomware and their systems were locked for long enough where they shut the doors and 30 employees are now. I don't have a job. It's that serious. Serious? Yeah, it is. It is. It is a matter of livelihood. And, um and so yes, so it seems, you know, seeing this, um ah, in almost on on on almost a regular occasion, What's what's you know, Why is this happening? And my founder and CEO of NGOs Actually, he he you know, he saw that as well, having you know, seen it through the same lens of running manage service's company. And you know, when you look at the statistics and realize that you know you have the problem is people. People are not properly trained to prevent attacks and hackers are targeting people. So he started this company and 2015 and you know, he solved, you know, basically a couple core problems with how you know why this is such a problem today. The first is Ah, the human attention span right we have. I think the human attention span is down to six seconds from the last study, which is less than that of a caterpillar. Yeah, caterpillars. Attention span is, I think, eight seconds and then I mean there, you know? And so the pundits say social media is to blame, Right way all know that it's actually rewiring our brains. Um, you know, there's even studies coming out saying that millennials entering the work force, and I want to say 2024 they are gonna have a 2 to 4 second attention span. So when when you look at training, that's a lecture based telling you not, you know, not to click on this. This is what a phishing email looks like. It's not working. Clearly. It's not working. Not at all. Um ah. The second problem is that you know, hackers are innovating every day. Ah, and coming up with new threats. So, you know, having, um, uh, coming up with new content all the time. And one of things that we do is we release a new episode every 30 days. That is stays, you know, it's top of mind. It's new, it's fresh. It's covering a real significant breach or scam that has, you know, happened recently. So people can, you know, kind of relate to it. Right? Um and, uh, um, yeah. And then And then, you know, the other issue is frequency. I mean, I think you know a lot of companies. They look at their cybersecurity training program, and traditionally, it's they take 45 minutes once a year, and that's it. That's it. And they're required to do that for compliance reasons. Right? They check the box. That's it. But that does nothing for someone who you know, Number one has to remember something. Um, and number two, you know, has to be mindful of it. Every single second. They have to be vigilant and, you know, be thinking of this and almost, you know, um, you and I haven't You know, we have an identity it's who we are. Absolutely. And I think most people they have this identity of physical security where you know, you lock your door when you leave your house. You, you know, pick up your purse or wallet when you leave a restaurant. Lock your car when you go to the grocery store, but we don't have is a digital security identity built into us. And so one of things that were really trying to do is create a paradigm shift. Where on DSO What we do is we make 3 to 4 minute, um, Hollywood style storytelling cartoons, and we release a new one every 30 days that, you know, it's an engaging story. Um, and there's a single teachable moment, an attack vector that we focus on that is, you know, again relevant and pulled kind of right from the headlines. Um and, uh, and you know, through that through delivering, you know, with frequency, keeping it top of mind, keeping an engaging and interesting. We feel we're making a, you know, a pretty big impact in, you know, not only making cyber security fun and engaging for people who don't really let's be real, like they don't care about it. They wanted out their paycheck and that I don't know, Um and ah, um, you know, and and by by creating frequency and not having it a one time 45 minute once a year deal. You know, it's it's memorable, for sure, and there's a lot of other stuff that goes behind it that, you know, it's it's It's a methodology that, you know, makes it fun and engaging. Another cool thing that we do is it's called family use rights, and it's almost like the social media effect. We feel like if people feel like it's a, it's an employee benefit where they can share also share it with their family, cause these same things affect, you know, Children they affect, you know, everyone home computers they affect. You know, it's it's all the same lessons that we need to kind of again have that digital security paradigm shift in our mind. Um, and we feel that if we can give it and we give it, our clients have it for free for their family and their they can share it with their friends, friends and families, and so they can talk about it around the dinner table. Hey, did you see the last episode of you know the, um you know, what do you think? Have you seen that threat before? And, you know, maybe it doesn't happen in, you know, in in practice. But it has happened, and I think does facilitate for a more powerful, you know, abscess in the message. And then ultimately, shifting to a new identity

Brock Goldberg:   1:42:37
absolutely stimulates conversation. I mean, what you guys have been able to do just the thought of looking at this in a new way, right? If 45 minutes is the typical standard, every single year at these companies do. But when you guys do is break it down in a few minutes Segments micro learning. So really taking what you understand about the attention span six seconds, right? Blowing it up to that Hollywood productions. Also, it's cool, funny and engaging. And just a few minutes sound bites, right? That can really shift where we're at. Because our digital identity is not looked at as our physical identity. But we can lose just a cz much, if not more, at time of

Matt Lindley :   1:43:18
our lives. Our digital? Yeah, 100. We almost need toe. Think less about the physical, for sure. Part of it as we grow into this and you know, it's interesting. We've done a lot of research on neuroscience and how people learn and just cybersecurity and how people view cybersecurity that has really helped us develop and get to where we're at. We've even done, you know, studies around, you know, the use of comedy in cyber security and why, You know what? What? Some of the you know issues can be associated with that, Um and you know, we've There's been a lot of interesting things. I think you mentioned that you saw that explained Syria. Rather bring, um, you know, even looking at that and they talk about your in your hippocampus, you have your your is Ah, Magdala. And, um, I know it's shocking. Ah, Anyways, I'm not gonna I'm not a neuroscientist. I, uh but it's it's how people store, you know, meaningful memories. Um, and you know, there's a couple different elements that need to be involved to do that. And we're trying to, you know, create our content and our delivery around how the brain works, how people work, how the world works which just it hasn't been done before. No, not Adam. And they're also and we're growing pretty quickly. It's a fun, really fun business toe be in. I think I was telling you before the podcast gonna fly out Thio London and Turkey at the end of the month toe visit with some strategic partners. Um, you know, we might have an opportunity to grow with and, uh, you know, it's just, um Yeah, it's It's Ah, it's a fun, fun business,

Brock Goldberg:   1:44:57
really shifting the way that people think about, you know, cyber security. I mean, this is becoming more and more of an issue. My wife always makes fun of me because my passwords are so fucking long and I put two FAA on everything, and I try to, uh, just really be on top of, uh, you know what I'm doing, where I'm going, you know, just utilizing, you know, a VPN really simple things that we can do to toe help us out. What are some of the just most basic things that the everyday individual can do to make sure that they're staying safe on a day to day basis?

Matt Lindley :   1:45:29
Yeah, um, a couple of things I think you know you You hit on on some of those passwords. Length is key, right? I mean complexity. Fine. But if you have a short, complex password, um, you know, it's it's going to get broken way faster than if you have a long, non complex password like a pass phrase. Yeah, you know, I love going to Disneyland. Every guy with spaces and stuff like that. If you allow it on DSO and there's even websites you can go on, you know how secure is my password and type it in and tested. Actually tell you with today's technology, how long it would take to crack that password and you go from it, you know, at a certain point, you know, going from eight characters which I think could be cracked in a matter of minutes. Tau 14 characters, you know, 247 trillion years, right? I get it yet, but it's you know it's significant. Right or short length is king multi factor authentication that's also anywhere You can use it, especially banks. Um, but I think here's an important takeaway, and that's, um, you know, text messaging cause we're seeing a lot of hacks where people take over someone's, you know, a SIM card exceptional. And they can receive the text message. Not only that, we're seeing hacks that are a little more sophisticated, and people are actually creating a proxy website where you think you're logged on to your bank. Um, you input your username and password. It forwards you to their to factor. Um, and you put in the two factor that you've received, you know, already. And, um and then, you know, But by proxy, a hacker's like watching this happen and has control of the screen. And, um, you know, but, uh, having a to factor app like Google authentic has is key, right? Because text messages just it's not secure. I'm not, You know, our government even says, don't use it and, uh, you know, just good cybersecurity. Hygiene is, you know, being, um you know, being mindful, looking at, you know, don't open up an attachment if you don't know where it came from. Trust but verify. Call right. If someone if there's any sort of financial trap transaction happening, I don't care what it do. Not if it seems weird or if it's a significant amount of money. Pick up the phone and call if it's been done through email or text message. Because, you know, there's a lot of scams that are happening. Um, a pretty popular one lately is gift card scam where someone, um, will send an email. This actually happened to us. One of our newer employees. He was seconds away from from falling victim to a gift card scam. And it's finding, you know, where we we get targeted. You know the offer? Yes. Faster we grow. And this was a new employees, so they weren't, you know, trained and up to speed. But what happens is ah, someone spoofs an email from the CEO. And probably through linked in they saw that this person is a new employee. And because it was also around Christmas time, you know, holidays. It was, Ah, um, I think ripe for the attack. And what they say is, you know, comes from the CEO. Uh, hey, can you do a special project for me? So they respond. Yes. Um, what do you need? Uh, I am, You know, I'm about to walk into a meeting right now. I need you to buy me. You know by, uh, whatever it is. 20 gift cards that, you know, $500 each. Um, and I'm gonna give him to the employees for, you know, for a gift. And but I need this done in one hour, right? So it creates a sense of urgency. And so our new employee got this. They, you know, they they did their home. They knew that he was a new employee. They knew who the CEO was. They, you know, pulled on those heartstrings of, you know, someone being new, to accompany and wanting toe, you know, perform. And he legit. He got the corporate credit card. Ah, jammed it to best buy and then, um, and was at the counter. And he texted just because he knew the company that we were right. And I think he had seen one or two of our videos. You know, so far. I mean, he was days in, right? Who's who is fresh, texted our CEO and said, Hey, before I do this, I just want to make sure that you know this You really made this request. And I mean, he was playing golf like he you know, he was I don't know if you would have been. You know, he luckily saw the message and said, No, I definitely didn't say Wow. And so seconds away, seconds away from falling victim.

Brock Goldberg:   1:50:09
Yeah. So it can even have it can happen to anyone. Yeah, it happens all the time. It happens all the time. And so those are just simple ways that people, um, can be safe. Right? Trust, but verify two factor authentication, not through text message. You something like a Google authenticator. Um, uh,

Matt Lindley :   1:50:27
and get a password management ap don't recycle passwords a lot of times, cos you know Clinton has gotten hacked, and all of a sudden the hacker has an email address and a password, right? And so what they're gonna do is they'll, you know, spray that password. Ah, an email address across many, many, many sights to see, you know where they can get in if someone has re used the same email address and password, which I'm even gonna have done that. But now I have a password management program where every password is unique. Every password is long, and it's relatively easy to change through the happy. If I if I feel like I need to know for sure. Absolutely. You just have to remember that one password for that one up on.

Brock Goldberg:   1:51:06
That's that, right? Make make sure it's long, right? Makes make sure that might make sure it's long. Wow, that's Ah, these air. Great frickin tips, man. Because as we move more and more into this digital realm, I really hope that people will start to take their digital identity. As serious as they do, is they physical identity? Um, because you can you can lose everything and ah, who knows what what what will happen, right? They drain your account of thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of dollars. That's all the time. So what? What What are you going to do? Right. And this is happening everywhere, every everywhere. Um, what are some? I don't know. What are some other things that you see in the future happening? Um, two companies, people, businesses like, where where is this really going? Are company's going to be more aware and used your guys education system where they can continue to use the 45 minute long method?

Matt Lindley :   1:52:05
You know, I think I think it's Ah, it was a process whereby you have companies that you know have leadership that understand the issue and they implement. You know, the right incremental changes toe help. I mean, there's nothing is 100% especially of nation states. When they want, they're gonna get it. You look at, like the political campaigns that have been hacked. It's insanity, you know, in previous elections. You know, I bet you they're probably pretty secure. Well, maybe. I mean, there's a lot of temps uniforms and out of that, but, um, But when you have an adversary adversary, that's that's as sophisticated as they are at the nation state level. There's really not much you could do. It's just, you know, I think I think encryption is important right now is getting a little on the more technical side. But encryption is is king when, when it comes to protecting your data personally, I do use cloud storage. Service is, but it's all encrypted. So could a hacker gets after that? There's no way they're going to be able to get to. The point is it's it's, you know, using such a strong ki that at least today, can't be hacked. Quantum computing is interesting. Yes, it is. Because the theory is is that quantum computing is you know, once it's, ah at a level that can be, you know, in the hands of, um you know, ah, you know, groups when it's not so expensive and it's one more widely available. Um, you know, it's gonna be so powerful that it can probably, you know, blow the doors off of most encryption standards absolute and even Blockchain. And that's this is that's kind of an interesting, you know, a conversation around what it's gonna do to block chain and what security mechanisms are going to be required to secure those assets. But so, you know, I think that's gonna be interesting. I'm not sure, you know, I'm not an expert in the area, so I don't know, as faras timelines Go on, Dhe. What's being worked on and being done? Um, you know, deep fake. That's another huge man, I think, on a global level, um, and for the listeners, you know what that is? Is someone basically, you know, creating a fake video and or audio that is so real? Um, and they can basically make any person say anything they want and I think all they need is a sound bite of, like, 10 words or so I could be wrong on that. But it's a pretty minimal sound bite that then they can use to then, you know, fake a video and whatever they want on the political side. Or even, um, you know, uh, competing companies wanting toe like kill the share the stock prices of another company, you know? I mean,

Brock Goldberg:   1:54:47
it's insane. It's insane. Yeah. How do we How do we prepare yourself for that? Because if you have someone like Donald Trump or Barack Obama saying, you know, do this or do that how does the everyday person Oh, well, that's really not him. If it looks just like if it sounds just like it, these thes cos we're gonna have to create some type of technology to counter act with that. Because if we don't, I mean everything from the political, um, arena toe. You know, huge companies things. We're going to get a little weird. Ah, as it gets better and better. And I don't know if it's like 40 minutes or 40 hours or 40 words, but I believe it's 40 something right that's all. They need it. Let's just say it's 40 hours, right? All they need is 40 hours worth of video. Ah, a lot of people have a lot of video out on their more than they could ever imagine. So if that's all they needed, if that's all they needed and they can create any single human being to say anything that they wanted, that's a really weird world. And so this deep fake technology, although it's pretty fucking awesome to watch it is very scary at the same time.

Matt Lindley :   1:55:56
Yeah, I think the threat level on this is pretty high. Yeah, going forward on. And I think organizations air gonna have Thio, you know? Think about this. You know, I think first on, as as with most cybersecurity threats, you know that I think the newer things you get targeted for the highest reward and so larger companies, you are probably gonna have toe come combat this first. And certainly politics. That's gonna be an issue. Um, but, you know, I know a lot of platforms are developing technology right where these things may live, like social media, you know? I know linked in Microsoft Facebook, you know, they're They're investing a lot of money into being able to, you know, combat, recognize, identify and essentially block this. But, you know,

Brock Goldberg:   1:56:40
it's time will tell. Time will definitely tell cat and mouse game. Oh, for sure for sure. Um uh, you know, with with cybersecurity, with the 2016 election that happened with Russia, you know, intruding on our political elections. What do you think's gonna happen this year in 2020? Do you think that you know, the RNC, the DNC? We're prepared for things like that? Because it's it's fucking crazy, man. It's It's really crazy that And I know that America has done some crazy ass shit too. And we're probably or definitely doing it to other countries. And just everything that we have done. If you looked at this very short timeline that America's been around, um, but this directly impacted, um, you know, ah, political election, right? And so what do we do to prepare ourselves? And it's just I mean, to be honest, I don't think that we're prepared that definitely time will tell

Matt Lindley :   1:57:35
you largely were not I think a lot of responsibility, um, sets with social media. Yeah, and that's a very complex find that we're not prepared to deal with. You know, with Twitter, with Facebook, with with Lincoln Instagram all all these. Yeah, tick a tick document, which I just learned about that my kids aren't old enough. Um, but, I mean, I think I don't know where to start. It's a complex issue and that. But I do think that we need to figure out mechanisms where we can eliminate, um, you know, threats of, you know, promoting misinformation. Yeah. And, you know, uh, kind of, you know, the manipulation of, you know, small and large groups of her share pole. Um, and so, you know, so most people, that's how they communicate these days. Social media. That's naturally where I think, you know. And I know that they're having these conversations 100% you know, on that same note. How do you foster, You know, a platform that people want to participate in and also not, you know, inhibit free speech. It's Sotogrande, the sharing of ideas, and, you know, and then, um you know, people that you know may not be in that category of, you know, manipulate that are close enough, right there It's just their agendas, their agenda. But it's not to manipulate. But it's their voice. It's their message. And who are we to say that they can't have a platform to? Absolutely. And so, yeah, it's a very complex issue. I you know, I wish I had ideas that I could bring to the table for from on how to fix it. Um, I really don't know.

Brock Goldberg:   1:59:26
Know that that's what we find. I do like what Twitter did, and I'm a big proponent for free speech, but they don't allow political advertisements anymore, right? And so, in one way, that's shitty, because I'm a big proponent for free speech. But another way, I'm like, Well, we kind of saw what happened in 2016. So let's just take the politics out of it. Let's have we can have everything else right. But then where does that stop right? If if if we take the political aspect of a will, then what happens if this idea happens? And then that idea happens, and then it's just kind of like the tsunami of of these, uh, you know, CEOs that are the ones that air, you know, controlling the conversation that is happening,

Matt Lindley :   2:0:09
you know? And I think, unfortunately, um, you know, the our current system for to educate voters on who these people are. I mean, it's these debates are their insanity lists. They're

Brock Goldberg:   2:0:21
just sweet talking insanity. When you have, uh, Converse era commercials every 3 to 4 minutes, it's It's what the fuck right? This is It's

Matt Lindley :   2:0:32
not conducive. And they're not even talking about

Brock Goldberg:   2:0:34
it. And then 15 2nd Yeah, exactly 15 2nd alerts, right commercials. Every few minutes, it's like know what? What happened? Toe? Being able to have a long form conversation like you and I are just having are having right now, Do you really don't get to learn a lot about their thoughts, their ideals and just kind of what makes them the right candidates? So, uh, it just then becomes a shouting match, and it's just it's it's fucking insanity to me. You know, this whole entire political landscape that we live in America right now, um, is just a little crazy right

Matt Lindley :   2:1:08
now. I mean, we have I think that we have a problem with education and, you know, an information and misinformation. So, you know what's happening is I think largely, you know, people who they think they're voting for and why they're voting for him and what they're you know, they don't They're not seeing the full picture. And I I realized I don't, You know, I'm putting myself This is everyone. Yes, and it's because of the system that we live in. And so I think a lot of time needs to be spent on that I Do. You no think eliminating, you know, political. But, I mean, you know, if you look at the dossier on Russia's approach to manipulating our election, I mean, it was just insane on how they, you know, targeted certain groups and created, you know, these messages that would get people, you know, mad that then, you know, I mean, they're just truly I mean, it was this The design was was just insane.

Brock Goldberg:   2:2:03
It was fucking terrible. Brilliant, but fucking terrible. And I don't misconstrue my me saying Brilliant. I mean, brilliant by how fucking like, well, thought out. Have you ever thought of it like it was just so my guy Human hacking absolutely and greet us. And we just for sure, at its greatest, this will go down in history books as the well at this told this point, the greatest hacker was writing the book. Yeah, it's soldier, though, man, and so I I don't know, man. Cyber security for me is it's a big issue. And I would not even be thinking about this stuff if I never got into crypto currency and Blockchain technology. And so that's another thing. That's really you know, going through that process has really opened up my eyes and ears to all of this on guy just want people to be more aware and be more conscious about there choices that they make online. You know, Social Media is has many fantastic aspects, but it's also fucking crazy at the same time. And it's so new, everything is just so new. All of this technology is so new. What the iPhones been out for, like, 11 years? Shit. It feels like my space was the other day, right? Tom was everyone's friend and s o So all of this And now these companies that you know, started out these college level, uh, you know, projects are now controlling, you know, controlling the world and our thoughts and ideas and everything, like that, and they're multi multi $1,000,000,000 corporations. So we really need to be thinking about our actions. And that's why, you know, having you on here was really important to me only because of our friendship. But because you know what you do, You know what you bring to the table and are able to share with, you know, the listeners about, you know, simple ways that they can stay safe. And also, I also think that your company does is fucking awesome. It really hits the core of the way that we think now, as a society.

Matt Lindley :   2:3:59
Well, you know, and to me, I chuck a little bit. And just because, you know, I've been in this industry long enough where I've been selling the, you know, um, software and the data center stuff in the firewalls and the, you know, um ah, and all the security platforms that are really expensive. And, you know, at the end of the day, you still have 93% of breeches on account of human error. You could spend all the money in the world in the data center and blinking lights. And, um, you know, the, uh and yet spent a fraction of the cost on your staff on people using your computers and in training, and probably have taken much larger bite out of the risk profile for sure. Absolutely. And and so, Yeah. So that's why. And, you know, I think I mentioned after seeing it so much organizations getting hacked, you know, almost. I feel like this is, you know, I'm participating, Um, with a company that is making a tangible benefit to society by doing something, you know, Uh oh. And we're not the only cyber security, security awareness training company out there. But I figure, you know, I believe that we're doing it in the most impactful on powerful way. And as we continue to grow, weaken, continue to spread that. And so I have just a ton of, you know, passion for you know, what we're doing and in almost, you know, fixing fixing society a little bit for sure, right. I mean, I know that sounds kind of

Brock Goldberg:   2:5:34
cheesy, Don't know, but it's so true.

Matt Lindley :   2:5:35
But, I mean, just the devastation that you know happens when someone becomes a victim. Um, I mean, it's it's it's crazy. You know, some people never recover from that emotionally or financially, right?

Brock Goldberg:   2:5:46
It's so intrusive. Yeah, it's It's terrible, It's it's terrible. And you have these hacks cons happ happening constantly. Um, so you know, what you are doing is impactful. Ah, and I do believe it is companies like yours that really will make real change because of 93% is human error. Well, it's got that down to 83%. 73%. 63%. Because what would that mean? Incremental change. Incremental change. Just slowly.

Matt Lindley :   2:6:14
Little force the hackers to come up with something new. But great game, right? Let's close. Let's close one door. If they want to try and open another, you know, they're going to We can't We can't stop that.

Brock Goldberg:   2:6:25
No, no, no. Yeah, they're going to constantly be innovative. And that's why you constantly have to be at the forefront. You know

Matt Lindley :   2:6:32
where we are also working on for 2020 ah, something called an NGO home. And what that is is for the 8 to 14 year old demographic on its teaching. You know, kids about digital citizenship, right? Social media, playing video games and talking to strangers, you know, online, using location service is on your phone. And it's not just for the kids. It's also the parents, you know, need to be involved. So they understand. And I think largely, and these are, you know, I also look at Jenna relation generationally. Kids are growing up on this. They're expected. All their friends are doing it. Yes. Um, were they properly trained about the risks? Probably for the most part. Not now. But we also need educate the parents so they know what the risks are. I think many, often times, you know, parents or even anyone adopts the technology, and they don't really understand the true risk. Ah, and I have, um, side story on that on a project I did many, many years ago that, you know, kind of articulates that, um but I'll get to that in a second. So ninja home is gonna be content that's, you know, gonna be targeted to deliver it and kind of the same methodology. It's fun, engaging, help kids kind of build a foundation.

Brock Goldberg:   2:7:43
I freaking love that. That was a question I was actually gonna ask you is, uh, you know, what are you created? That's what? Because

Matt Lindley :   2:7:50
that's you know. But when coming up with an identity of digital security, the younger you start, you know, built that baseline. You know for sure I'll let you know, have it grow, you know, for life. So absolutely interesting thing I did. And this was, um I think my last year in school, everyone, you know, I had to do their their project. Right? And mine was on wireless because at the time, where Alice was kind of a new technology and many homes didn't have wireless yet, right? It was many. Most of it was business is. So what I did is I, um you know, I was really interested in wireless when it first came out. As you know, I usually am with most kind of new cool technologies that I see is a game changer, right? Virtualization was one of them I got, you know, deep into, you know, virtual ization. Just cause I thought it's such a cool technology, But with wireless, um, what I did was I got a laptop. Ah, Big omni directional antenna. Big antenna. Right. So I could see lots of range used a program called think was her crack or a Russian or can't remember which one. But it basically all it does, is it. It just scans and fines and records wireless networks, and it will tell me whether or not it's encrypted, meaning you need a password to get on. So I drove from Anaheim on the five Freeway down to I want to say, Dana Point area, probably about, I don't know, maybe a 2030 mile trek. Um, And on that track just from the freeway, I found, um Ah, how many was it was. It was roughly, I want to say, 75 wireless networks that I collected along along that route. Um, and so most of those are businesses. I five corridor there aren't. You know there aren't a ton of homes that I'm driving by. So these air mostly businesses out of that. Those 75 networks, I think 15 15 were encrypted 15 And so largely, you know what happens is this new technology comes out. People see that it solves a business problem, but they don't really understand, You know, the other risks and vulnerabilities. And so they turn it on. It works great. And, um and that actually led me to my first, you know, kind of side business where I go around and, um, you know, on in those areas off the I five freeway, put a card that says, you know, business I t service is, you know, we can secure your wireless so hackers and, you know, started making money.

Brock Goldberg:   2:10:31
That's so cool. Mad. That's so cool. So you drove from Anaheim to Dana Point, stand in the Internet And to think there was only 75 back then. How many would you get now?

Matt Lindley :   2:10:41
Ah, yeah, I mean, a

Brock Goldberg:   2:10:45
lot. Thousands. Yeah. Yeah, I know everyone in there. Mama has wireless nowadays, but yeah, I mean, I have your wife. I just open network. That's Ah, Seems pretty. Ah, insanity.

Matt Lindley :   2:10:58
You know, these are businesses, right? There's, You know,

Brock Goldberg:   2:11:01
there's a lot that they can lose right on. And I'm sure there's a lot still it still to this day. So it's just really important to be thinking about all of these things. Um, Where for your for your company. So 2020 is gonna bring, um, it's gonna bring the the what is called a ninja home. Ninja home

Matt Lindley :   2:11:23
s. Oh, that's yeah. And then we're also opening up. We're doing content, like HR based content because everyone, you know, people we were one of those companies where we do You do things kind of so cool and unique that we even have this, like, cult following. People love our content. I love our cars. I mean, it's it's cool. Um, but a lot of people have asked us Hey, you know, we have to do sexual harassment training. We have to do anti money laundering training. We have to do anti corruption training. We have to do you know, um ah, you know, um, diversity training Can you create in your style? Can you do that? We buy it from you. So we're actually kicking off with that

Brock Goldberg:   2:12:04
last first? Ah, Siris on sexual harassment. Uh, so I I don't want to say sexual harassment. Awesome, because it's definitely not. Um, but it is awesome that you guys are, uh, going to take that same thought process for the cybersecurity and implemented towards, You know,

Matt Lindley :   2:12:24
we're also adapting it for, um, you know, the digital age where, and I mean sexual harassment can be, you know, uh, delivered in, you know, now, social media where you you can make colleagues quite uncomfortable by making comments and social media. Now, where that wasn't, that wasn't an issue back in the never. So we're gonna be approaching, you know, in the digital age, you know, some of the new, you know, topics that I think people need to be aware of

Brock Goldberg:   2:12:50
for sure. Will they be in this the same kind of few minutes? The AGM,

Matt Lindley :   2:12:55
NTL, same kind of style, you know, um, they may be, you know, slightly longer, but not by much. But it's same concept Hollywood stories, right? Hollywood story writing. Um, and we actually So we do have a Hollywood producer who's, you know, a minority owner and the company who writes all of our scripts. He's written Bill Haynes. He's written over 72 episodes of Hawaii 50 and C s I on, and he used to be Is a forensic sheriff is well, so he's, you know, he's legit and, you know, definitely a key to our uniqueness and, uh, and our success.

Brock Goldberg:   2:13:35
That's awesome. You know, if businesses and just people in general want to go and look more into this into your business, working the go

Matt Lindley :   2:13:42
um, yes. Oh, uh, n NGO dot com and I n j i Oh, um, you can, you know, see some sample episodes on there as well. And, uh um ah, yeah,

Brock Goldberg:   2:13:56
that's awesome. Man. I I really love everything that we've talked about today, and I know there's so much more, and this is not gonna be the last time I have you on here, but it was really important to me, like I said before to have you on in this 1st 1st batch of podcast one because you're a really good friend of my freaking brother. But also, there's just a lot that you have to share in your beautiful, frickin brain man. Um, everything from your story, I mean, everything that you've gone through just kind of really understanding that, uh, when is the right time to move ones that right, time to take the next step and not to be afraid and then also to understand when to pull back, because a lot of times we'll get caught up in our own shit, and we just wanna say, Fuck it. I'm just going to give it all. But even though that is the wrong decision, right, But just our pride and our ego gets to us. Right. Um, I find that really fascinating fascinating about you are stories of, you know, Goldbach Network and really understanding that kind of, Ah, everything that I learned for made everything that you learn from it. Psilocybin. I mean, just everything that we've talked about, it just really means a lot to me. And I want to thank you so much for having you on here today. Thank you. It's

Matt Lindley :   2:15:10
been a pleasure. And, you know, I love you know, I could talk with you for days. Yes. You know

Brock Goldberg:   2:15:16
for sure. For, like I said, this won't be the last time. But there is one last question I do want to ask you. Um, is there one regret or any regrets that you have in your life?

Matt Lindley :   2:15:27
No. No. I look at things that happened good or bad, as you know, lessons and building blocks. Um, you know, I know it sounds cliche, but, you know, no regrets.

Brock Goldberg:   2:15:40
No, it's a lot of people lie to themselves forward.

Matt Lindley :   2:15:43
I think you know, regrets is like it's like a rocking chair, right? You're moving, but you're not really going anywhere. Like what's the point? Like why? Why fixate on it? Unless you're extracting a lesson out of it. But then that lesson to me is like, that's the most valuable thing you can get out of a failure is a lesson. It's It's more valuable than not feeling right. 100 s o failures. Good adversities. Good challenges. Ey're good. Feeling uncomfortable is good. Feeling uncomfortable is good in the right. 100% but you have 100%. It all helps us remember that. You know, we gotta keep motivated. Motivated. We gotta work. You know, life life isn't easy. Although, you know, I think some people definitely You know, there's a spectrum of people having opportunity and not having opportunity for sure. So definitely want to recognize that. I recognize I've had a ton of opportunity, but, um yeah,

Brock Goldberg:   2:16:37
nothing. Don't hand it to you. No regrets, man. No regrets. Nothing. Uh, yeah, man, Thank you so much for coming on here. I love you, brother. Two minutes. Thank you. I want to thank everyone for listening. Thio, Back to your story. Have a great night.