The Comedy Queen Herself, Miss Penelope Lawson

Brock Goldberg:   0:06
From the land of Mystery with dreams become reality Always listening to stories from the past, the present and the future. This is back our rat, All right, Our ride has everyone doing all right Before we hop into the nitty-gritty, I want to talk to you guys about little bit about Jupiter CVD. It's the first beauty company out there designed to alleviate stress. They've created something really special and magical. Um, for me, it's really important because my day to day is just filled with fucking nonsense, and I need something to kind of help just balance it out. I would never talk about anything that I personally don't take. And ah, yes. So I've been in love with the stuff for a while now, and I really think that you guys will appreciate it. They're offering something special to my listeners on, and that is $10 off, $10 off. What? And it is the Jupiter journey, a two week supply of some of the most delicious thievy d'une the planet and its traditionally 29 bucks. But for my listeners, you guys are gonna get it for $19. Yep, A two week supply for 19 bucks. All you gotta do is go to get Jupiter dot com and use the code Study time, woo. And that's it. So what we gonna do tonight who we're gonna talk to? We're gonna talk to the very talented Penelope. Um, she is an amazing, just incredible human being who has stories ranging from her amazing work as a director and writer. You know, the fabulous One night in San Diego. My wife worked on that film, and it is funny as shit, um, had everything ranging in between just her, her life, you even to the times when she was living in New York and everything she went through during 9 11 I just wasn't about her stories, and we had a really good time. I'm very excited for you guys to listen to it, so let's get

:   2:19
to it.

:   2:26
So, you know, I've known you now for I don't know, probably a year. Couple years now.

:   2:31
Think like to Yeah,

:   2:32
and I know nothing about you. I come over to your house that you do Amazing work. I'm talking about you like your personal, Like your personal life growing up where you're from, but as far as the work that you've put out one night in San Diego. That was my gosh, I I didn't know what the movie was really gonna be about watching it. It was so fucking funny.

:   2:52
Oh, good. Everyone was

:   2:53
laughing their ass off the entire time. It was really well done and the jokes were frickin awesome. So Kudos to you, I guess I'll start off by saying that. But

:   3:04
I'm really glad you liked it that you're probably one of the few people that actually seen it currently. So, uh, that room was packed. There were hundreds of people

:   3:12
in there. It was so funny. You gotta push that shit like, like, even more. And continue on the path that you're going on because to write a movie like that and tow them put it all together. Um, it's it's inspiring, man. Like, makes the driving motivation so cool. Thank you for you growing up. Did you always know that you wanted to make movies know howto How'd you stumble upon?

:   3:37
Absolutely not. It's so so growing up. I went thio this fucking terrible all girls school. Uh, until I waas Shit, I was, like, 14 and I asked my parents was like, please, like, I don't wanna go here anymore. Girls are bullies.

:   3:56
And their frickin yeah, kids are mean.

Penelope Lawson:   3:58
Yeah, they're me especially. Yeah, right s. So I ended up going to the school called Professional Children's School. Um, and I switched schools, and I loved it. It was awesome, I bet. Like two of my lifelong best friends there, one of whom produced one night in San Diego, one on one with its eyes. Nice. So yeah, like I love the school. I actually originally went there because everyone who went there had, like, a profession. So my profession was that I liked horseback riding, so I used to compete every weekend. And I go that that's why I was in Wellington. Okay. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Um and Ah, yeah, like I went there for horseback riding. And I was like, I know like seeing other people around me, and I'm never gonna be a professional rider. You know what I mean? They're so good.

Brock Goldberg:   4:44
Yeah, The polo fields are huge and rolling tonight, so get that makes sense. That's so crazy.

:   4:48
So I started doing I did that. And I also simultaneously was singing a lot. I was in a band. Okay, so I was playing keys and I was writing music, and I bet I was like, you know what? Like, I really don't want to go to college. I want to be in a band, like full time. Um, so I my parents were like, No, you should go to Seo. I was, like, 18. Like a total idiot. Honestly, I'm glad I went to school later because I think I want to just, like, pissed away my education. That's like you go to college. So, yeah, I was in a band. We went on tour. We went to China for, like, a Chinese TV thing. What music were you playing? Uh, like So it started off kind of like, um, sort of like Vanessa, Carl to Fiona Apple-like that kind of vibe on. And then it sort of more foreign to liken Elektronik kind of thing. Because, like, nobody ever came to my shows with my parents and my friends that got sick of my Facebook invites from Lee. So then we started playing more kind of electron, icky kind of music. We threw in. Some rappers, you know, is a totally different vibe, but yeah, like baking all the music was cool. But I really realized that I want to go back to school on. And then I do really think education's important. And

:   6:05
I appreciate that. I appreciate that, Truly is.

:   6:08
I wouldn't necessarily have ever referred to myself as, like, maybe a book smart person, or I never thought I was. And then I went back to school. Um, I must have been, like, 25 for the time, because I've been playing with the band the whole time. So I went back to school and, uh, move the microphone closer. My bad. I was actually just trying back my face away. Well, I coughed, you know, back in a way. Come on, man. You know. Right, dude. Um, so you know, I went back to school, and I I thought I wanted to do English lit. I wasn't really sure was taking all these were classes and I stumbled upon a film course which looked really cool, and it was cinema studies. So I started taking, like, all of these cinema studies classes. And then I was actually like, fucking nailing school and I was really all about it, you know, it did. And actually, like I met, there was like they had on initiative going on at the time with, like, um, Norman's an initiative. But like because of the G I bill for a lot of military people that had been that it served, they, like, paid for a lot of their schooling. So there was actually a bunch of people that were all, like 26 going to school. So I was just I befriended all of these amazing men that were Marines in college. We would all take thes film classes and like it was just like such a cool like experience.

Brock Goldberg:   7:26
It sounds like a really great party part of your life. I may I see your face. It's It's totally lighting up about this moment in your

Penelope Lawson:   7:32
time. I loved Fordham. That's out of schools. Fordham University, Jesuit school. I'm not a Jack, but what I would say about that is that I in conjunction with the cinema studies, I ended up taking this course with this man, James Fisher, who he was on the Criterion Collection actually the DVD for on the Waterfront because he actually knew the guy who the original priest that the film was based on. And also the writer of the movie who I believe passed away a few a few years

Brock Goldberg:   8:01
ago. I have no idea. Uh,

Penelope Lawson:   8:03
seems Budd Schulberg. I do remember that. I know I remember that because of James talking about it. And then when I took Spike Lee's class, he was talking about it

Brock Goldberg:   8:11
to you took Spike Lee's class

Penelope Lawson:   8:13
in graduate school.

Brock Goldberg:   8:14
Man, what was that experience? Life? Because,

Penelope Lawson:   8:16
uh, it was pretty rad. He's He was definitely a very interesting, uh, teacher. I would say that like, he definitely curated a really good selection of films that we would

Brock Goldberg:   8:26
watch discuss. And good educator.

Penelope Lawson:   8:29
Um, yeah, yeah, he, uh I mean, to be fair, most of the course that he teaches it's more like lecture. It's outlets, less lecture based, like the lecture short. That's my viewing. And then we talk. OK, come and he would ask questions. But he did do a really fun thing at the beginning of every class where he would like handout like scripts for you to read and stuff like that. That was cool till like, yeah, so he actually handed out on the waterfront. One of the classes, Um, you have this This guy a college, his, um his, uh, what's it called? His course was so interesting. And it was about the course he taught was called religion and film. And he would go There was all different kind of kind of films that he chose. Actually, he even picked up one of my suggestions, which was whistle down the wind, which I loved, but yeah, he did. You know, it was a 25 hour.

Brock Goldberg:   9:20
Okay, um, that I exactly I don't even know who he is. I

Penelope Lawson:   9:24
think this teacher you wouldn't. Okay, but these these movies, they're okay. Like taxi driver. Like talking about religion and stuff like that. That's Ah, that's a good, good class to take. It was really it was actually really cool. And I have never grew up like I'm like, I'm spiritual, but I wouldn't say that I'm a religious person for sure.

Brock Goldberg:   9:45
But if you enjoy education right, which totally you, you definitely do. So something that we don't think about often. At least I never do right. We would talk about race, but like religion in movies, in television, the death mean, there are strong, you know, undertones. And I'm sure

Penelope Lawson:   10:01
Yeah. I mean, even just like work. He lays the guns out, like on the bed in taxi driver like that. He was like, it's laid out like a cross, you know, just shit that like, you don't really think about. And then you're taking this course, and you're like, Oh, yeah. Okay.

Brock Goldberg:   10:14
Yeah. Really dissecting the movie?

Penelope Lawson:   10:16
Yeah, for sure. So that was cool. And then I somehow that ended up migrating down to the basement where they had all the art shit. And I took some film classes, and I I really liked him. And then I was pressured every week. Thio the teachers there, Warren is focused on narrative film. Okay. They really liked experiment dull. Um, I remember this one, dude. I forgot his fucking name. But he ah, he was always waxing poetic about experimental film. I can see the merits of it. Yeah, um, I can also, um, there is the other professor that I took there, who I really liked. His name was Mark Street, who's an awesome fucking filmmaker who really rad movies. You should look him up. Um, but he he actually like, made the assignments more like loose, so you could kind of do narrative to experimentally could do whatever you wanted. So I think my first film that I made I shot on the Bull X like a 60 millimeter that took me like hours to figure out how to frickin love. Like I had no idea that she was going on and we shot. We went out to Lake Placid like me and some of my friends, and we shot a little horror movie that when I ended up getting a developed I mean, the pack lab doesn't even exist anymore. Ray Studio in New York has no one's shooting on fucking film unless they're shooting like 35 is like, You know, I mean, it's just so expensive like,

Brock Goldberg:   11:41
but But you know what's crazy? I'm sorry to cut you off. It's like, you know, I'm kind of I'm looking at your life. And now you've gotten to this 0.25 you know, beyond and you got into the art of, you know, making movies and writing and doing all of that. But, you know, starting out as a young kid, right? You grew up in Wellington,

Penelope Lawson:   11:59
Florida No, I got from Manhattan.

Brock Goldberg:   12:00
So you grew up. Oh, shit. You grew up in Manhattan. But you're up

Penelope Lawson:   12:03
in New York City like, actually New York City like a group in Kips Bay, like Murray Hill area, where there was no subway nearby, and not too many people lived in my neighborhood. They always lived uptown or downtown, so no one was really coming unless they were taking attack.

Brock Goldberg:   12:21
That's crazy. So, uh, you growing growing up in Manhattan? You know, people from the outside look at New York is just it's it's amazing, right? And then you get to go visit it and, uh, you know, kind of appreciate everything that's there. But living there is completely different than, uh, you know, just visiting somewhere.

Penelope Lawson:   12:39
I think living there, everyone grows up really fast. So it's like all this stuff that, like, all, hear about people doing it like 20. We didn't like 14 you know what I mean? So it's like like that's why, for example, I hate nightclubs like I'm not a nightclub like load them and like, unless it's someone's, like birthday, or like a special occasion or something, I'll go, um but I think it's cause I went to so many when I was a kid that, like, I just I'm not into it anymore

Brock Goldberg:   13:08
for sure. Yeah, E I don't know. I I believe I I don't come from philosophy that, uh, kids, that and I'm not promoting this by any means. But I'm just saying for like, my life and people that I speak with, you know, for me, I was party my ass off for, like, 14 15 16 years old, going to raves every fucking weekend, taking tons of ecstasy at 14. 15. Fucking terrible looking back now, right? Um,

Penelope Lawson:   13:33
just like the tunnel nightclub where they had cages hanging from the ceiling.

Brock Goldberg:   13:36
Exactly a 14 years old. But you surrounded yourself with older people

Penelope Lawson:   13:40
were also talking like pre 9 11 You know what I mean? Which is, like, heavy and I definitely lived in Manhattan, New York during 9 11 That's what was that experience like, uh, it was my second day at the high school. I was just waxing poetic about, and I knew, like nobody. And then they told us what happened, and it was like everyone just kind of was like, shocked and then I made it home on time. My mom saw the second plane hit. I think I just made it home. And we were looking out the window because I lived on the 49th floor of this building and we literally just washes. The towers fell and it looked like it was like, the craziest shit I've ever seen that I'll never see anything like that in my life. Like it was. It was nuts. Um, I did know people that were in there, um, but But I would say that like, um you know, I just remember people walking from downtown uptown, like covered in ash and that smell. It's like something that will, like, always forever be ingrained in my brain like that. It took like, a minute for it to go away and even like where I lived in Midtown, you could smell it. You know, Downtown kind of became a fucking ghost town after that man,

Brock Goldberg:   14:51
that had to be so scary and surreal. You know, we say we see things in our lifetime, but, uh, I've never actually met anyone that just shared that story with me. I mean, to be able to visually see it in person. I mean, I remember I was when I first found out, and I remember seeing it on TV and on TV and all that shit right when I was younger, but to experience that, that is That's insane. Yeah. And you're not the only one that tons of fucking other people. Millions of other people, right?

Penelope Lawson:   15:20
I mean, everybody has has, you know, fucking I'm sure. Like a different

Brock Goldberg:   15:24
yeah. For but still it's It's insane. What was the aftermath like? Like like living there. How old were you at this time?

Penelope Lawson:   15:30
I was, I think I think

Brock Goldberg:   15:33
it was 15. I would've been 14 2000 won. 14 14 15 15 15. I guess we're in this

Penelope Lawson:   15:40
area. 15. Yeah. So, yeah, I was having crazy shit. Um,

Brock Goldberg:   15:45
how long did it take? Thio Get back to normal around it, and

Penelope Lawson:   15:50
I don't think there ever is. It's ever been the same. Um, I don't know, like, I looked at the world like it was a lot, um, safer before then. And now it's kind of just like you hear about all this shit, and it's just sort of like it's not even shocking to me anymore because it's just like

Brock Goldberg:   16:09
it's all the time. Yeah, Yeah, it's It's all time. Mass shootings everywhere in the United States of America Every day, every other day. What the fuck? You know, we grew up in a time where it was like before, and I don't know if they were just better at, like, putting the closed eye to it. Like because there wasn't the Internet information wasn't passed around us freely. The world has definitely changed since the evolution of the Internet really took off. Right, Which was definitely after 2001. Um, looking back now, at 33 years old. Ah, Does that fear still kind of live in you because of that experience?

Penelope Lawson:   16:55
No, I mean, I didn't know because it's, you know, you obviously don't expect something like that to happen, But I would I would say that, like, you know, I mean, I'm sure everyone is different. You know, there are probably people that escaped the building that have a very different you know, But, I mean, it was a horrible time. Has for sure.

Brock Goldberg:   17:22
Yeah. Your parents, they they grew up in New York. No, they're from England. Okay, Oh, yeah. You're talking about that earlier?

Penelope Lawson:   17:29
Yeah. I'm the only American I have a dual citizen

Brock Goldberg:   17:32
of Wow. Oh, uh, your parents, uh, they've been together for question time, all right?

Penelope Lawson:   17:39
Oh, yeah. They've been married for Oh, I want to say, over 50 years.

Brock Goldberg:   17:45
That's amazing. That's that's beautiful to see. Yeah, it's

Penelope Lawson:   17:47
really It's really nice. Yeah, it is. It's got really nice, because I don't know too many people whose parents are together either, for that long were still

Brock Goldberg:   17:56
together. Yeah, it's really cool to hear when that does happen. And it's sad, right? Because, you know, I've been with a listen out for 16 going on 17 years, which is amazing here in 50 years. That's that's incredible toe. And to be happy, right? There's one thing you like 50 years, and obviously there's ups and downs in every relationship, but ah, see that in your parents? That's that's cool. What brought them to the States?

Penelope Lawson:   18:19
Um, they moved here in 1980. Ah, a bit closer. Sorry. My bad mood here in 1980. Um, I think we got him for work. Originally, I think they briefly lived in Boston at which is where I was born, okay? And then Ah, but I am still in New York Rangers fan sports team. Just born. They're not make me a fan of the Boston team, except I am a fan of Tom Brady. Uh, thank

Brock Goldberg:   18:47
you. Still gonna be there. What, you think it still be there? His contract's up. That's crazy.

Penelope Lawson:   18:52
I don't know much about football, but I just, uh, the luckiest man in the world because I think the two most attractive people in the world are married to wonder where they seem happy to. You know, you'd

Brock Goldberg:   19:05
be two attractive people, but if and everything's from the outset, right, Because we look at celebrities looking stars, like from the outset. So, like, what you see on the inside is completely different on the onset. Um, so you pass, move toe to the States. They moved Thio. You know Boston than they are in New York. You have siblings? I do not. So I am an only child. What is that? You know, once again. Now, looking back at your life, what was that like having no other siblings is

Penelope Lawson:   19:35
It was awesome. Okay, Cool. I loved it. Okay.

Brock Goldberg:   19:39
Because your parents Everything just kind of worked. Worked

Penelope Lawson:   19:41
out. Well, it's Yeah, I think once when I was a kid, they were like, Do you want any siblings? And I was like, No, that's cool, though. It's cool

Brock Goldberg:   19:50
being, um you know, I I've always looked at like having two siblings was the way. But as I've gotten older, I'm like, Well, if there are, if you just have one and the parents love them and help foster them and everything just kind of works out, Um, it could still be really fantastic. You know, siblings doesn't always have to be the answer. Um what? When did you eventually come out to California? I moved almost three years ago. All right. Um, are you enjoying that?

Penelope Lawson:   20:22
I'm never going back. Thio going back, Uh, you know it weirdly. And I'm not trying to connect with my move with you know, what we were just talking about. But I would say that, like New York has definitely become not the city. I remember it being It's a cool place to visit. All of my dear friends live there. My parents don't even live there anymore. They moved to study Florida. So they're they're living it up? Um, I actually would. If I move back to the East Coast, I would move toe like a Miami type of place. I wouldn't there wouldn't be back in New York. I also hate the weather is cold, but like all of the like, cool like even CBGB, it's like a John Varvatos. Like all my favorite restaurants are like Duane Reade's, which, like for West Coast folk or anyone that is not familiar with what that is, that's a Walgreens and CVS. Um, yeah, like it's like a dry cleaner or a Starbucks like, and it's like all these overpriced departments that like no one can afford to live in. So they're like vacant storefronts and, like vacant apartments, stupid. When I moved here, it's funny because, like, I live with the same guy for eight years, my about like one of my best runs from home is it was Brian, Um, and we were both remarking about how he'd he actually recently just made the West Coast move a year ago himself for work. And sadly, he is not my roommate anymore because he needed to live closer to work anyways because he works in hunting in Huntington Beach. But, um, he we were both seeing the same thing. It's like it's crazy. How much more bang for your buck you get the West Coast. It's like, That's awesome, like you're the rent that I paid to, like live in my house with pool I, like was living in like a shoebox in on Bleeker Street. You know, um, I had some good experiences there, but I definitely would never move back there. I think it has changed so much, and I think that's why a lot of my friends are following suit by getting out of there, Not even just to come to L. A. Like I think l. A is a great place. If you work in like, entertainment or, you know, like percent, it's it's it's great for me at the moment, and I really do love California lot. And there's also, like just so much to see, and I you know,

Brock Goldberg:   22:32
there's there's, there's a lot of sea and why there's fucking beautiful. Um,

Penelope Lawson:   22:36
except for last week. Sorry, last week wasn't that good. I the people of California I know I became such a pussy. Now with the fucking weather should

Brock Goldberg:   22:48
you should you should, because back East it builds a different type of person. You said you had to grow up quickly, and that's probably a lot

Penelope Lawson:   22:55
of people. When I was growing old, six months, six months out of the fucking here it's freezing cold. When atrium that there was a clothing store called Atrium like that, I lived above on, uh, Bleeker Street. And I was like they were closing and they had a sale on. So I went about the biggest fluffiest, poofy ist warmest coat because it was fucking cold. And of course, I moved a year later. So I spent like a G on this code, just like Like, is just sitting in my closet now, like the judge. I just look at it. It's like, now, for some reason I'm like, so my skin must be really stand. Circulation is poor getting older man, you know, I would hit you for saying that you weren't the same agent. It's true, but we're not

Brock Goldberg:   23:42
getting well. I mean, we are getting older, but we're not old, but we're definitely it's It's a realization. Once you get like in your thirties, right, and you're almost your mid thirties. It is a realization that, yeah, this is happening. Things training, bucking Stop in. Yeah, man, If you don't make the best of it while you're here, it's gonna come quick

Penelope Lawson:   24:02
was in. The only part of that sucks about living out here is that I'm not near my parents, which stinks. But I try to go and see them as much as I can. Um, and thankfully, my schedule's, like, kind of flexible is to be able to do that. I mean, obviously, like, if you know where we don't really schedule too much, we get, like, a phone call, like, two days before, and it's like, you got to be here at this time. Okay? This is an example exactly about like, you know, it's like you just you never know. But that's life. I have time. I go and see

Brock Goldberg:   24:31
them. Um, your parents now live in Wellington, Florida, right?

Penelope Lawson:   24:36
They live in Boca Raton, Boca Raton. Right tone. I was actually directed. I used to say Boca Raton and I was like, No, it's Boca Raton. It's broken, actually. Love Boca. It's It is called the lawyer

Brock Goldberg:   24:49
like it's it's There's definitely a difference from northern to Southern Florida. Crazy shit happens in Florida all the time. But there, there's that kind of that pocket in South four. That's really cool. Like like Boca Miami? Um, don't raise cool Rey del Rey. You know, as long as it's not too fucking hot and humid. Just sucks when it's like that, but

Penelope Lawson:   25:11
yeah, well, that's

Brock Goldberg:   25:12
all right. It's definitely hot everywhere. We got this, the humidity, they're in heat. So that's cool. So now you're at this. Ah, in your in your point in your life where you move back or No, you move out here to California. It's been three years. Was it scary making that jump like you? Okay. Mm.

Penelope Lawson:   25:35
Yeah. This time it was terrifying. It was definitely terrifying.

Brock Goldberg:   25:40
What was it that said? All right. Fuck it. I'm going.

Penelope Lawson:   25:44
Um, What was the final stronghold? Removing? Well, if I went to grad school at N Y u um, for film directing. I just had to throw that in there, you know, like a total asshole. Um, no bomb drop. No, I think that's awesome. So what? I knew that I wanted to leave. I actually would have moved here if I hadn't have gotten into that program, but like it was too good of an opportunity to pass up. Um, and I met, like, some amazing people through the program, so I'm very blessed. Like the DP who shot one night in San Diego. Harlan, He I met a w. He was not in my class. He was like, demo ing a class for us or whatever, but he's great, dude. Like, I met great people through that program. Um, but yeah, like when I was done the second I was done, I was like, Goodbye, New York, Peace out. Hostile Avista. I'm done. Then you and I and I left.

Brock Goldberg:   26:33
Fuck yeah. And you'd already been to California. So

Penelope Lawson:   26:35
I was coming, like a bunch of my best friend, Alex from high school. Um, she lives out here, Um, and like we've stayed like, very close. She's like my sister. And then my buddy Dave lived out here, and they were like, you should just move here. And I was going through some kind of like toxic, like relationship ending shit going on in New York. And I was like that. I'm just gonna get out of here, so did I and I did not look back. I moved to good old West Hollywood, where I live next door to a like 65 year old man that, like brought home 18 year old girls and blasted drink for seven, which seems fun. But when your bedroom wall is like adjacent to this man, you just hear like, Is it just me feel so good? I shouldn't have to empty. I'm like, Oh my God does not feel good, bro. That's a

Brock Goldberg:   27:27
dirty, dirty old man. That's cool, though. So, you know, I always looked at, you know, living in New York when I especially I was like, Yeah, I wanted to do it. It's like the only place West Coast people

Penelope Lawson:   27:40
do it, man. It's like West Coast. People want to be East Coast to coast wannabe West man. It's always been the way you always want what you can't have, always like. It's funny cause the West Coast people that I know that ended up going and why you were moving to New York. They always come back to the West Coast, the New York people. I know that I'm moving here only a festival like you know, Go back. Yeah, that looks like that

Brock Goldberg:   28:01
weather. I mean, especially that weather alone. But

Penelope Lawson:   28:04
there's always a joke about people from New York, you know, they're always like, How can you tell if someone's from New York and they're kind of like, Well, how and it's like because they won't shut the fuck up about how wonderful it is because it's almost like they're just trying to convince either themselves or everyone else. They won't settle for the fact that, like maybe your favorite places L A. And there's this New York like they will just bully you until you were like, fine New York wins like you guys

Brock Goldberg:   28:25
were very persuasive. And I have I always say, it's like something directly correlated to going through six months of freezing fucking cold every single year of your life. That makes a person just a little bit stronger than an individual that's living in Southern California.

Penelope Lawson:   28:41
I think L A is just a healthier place to live, which is funny because, like in New York, people would always be like, Oh, everyone in L. A. It's like parties all the time and like, you know, like they're probably much gay heads and stuff like that, which, like Maybe that's true, I don't know. Those aren't the kind of people I hang out with, but like what I would say, really. But like, you know, But like, real talk like, I just I think it's funny how like L. A has just made me a personally healthier person and just in general, because the people I know like I got smoking when I moved here because people looked at me like with such disgust, like, I was like the world's most disgusting human, that I was smoking a cigarette. I felt the judgment like, Fidel, stop looking at me like shit. I gotta start going in the gym. So then I was like, Well, now I have no excuse. It used to be like it's too cold to walk to soul cycle or like noble boxing or whatever. And now I'm like crap. I better go. So like I have a trainer that, like, holds me accountable.

Brock Goldberg:   29:33
That's important, important, You know, if you have the ability to have a training that can hold you accountable, it's fantastic

Penelope Lawson:   29:38
tricks. The mayor. We would meet my birthday party maybe slightly, he talks. He's the man. Did he literally changed my body and my life shot out the motherfucking No, that's really cool. That is great. Like he he holds you accountable. I think it's important that you have people that, like make you inspire. You don't want to be better, of course, of

Brock Goldberg:   29:59
course. And you have to be the type of individual that wants toe have that type of criticism on your right because if you can be a person that can say, OK, someone gives me constructive criticism from the heart, you should be able go. Okay, well, maybe there's something going on my life, right? Maybe I have to slightly change this or do that, especially for enough people say it. But it's very hard for people to kind of look back inside and go well, I'm flawed, world fucking human.

Penelope Lawson:   30:26
I mean, ever listen everyone's flaw. That's why I see a therapist. I really, really enjoy it. If you have the ability to, I think everyone should do it because I think it's very, very like life changing and it reminds you that exactly what you just said. We're all human, but can we all make better? choices shorter. I make bad choices every day. But then I tried even them out by making better choices. Never. I mean, that's

Brock Goldberg:   30:52
that's just humans in general. But you said something that's really keep. It's like therapy going to therapy.

Penelope Lawson:   30:58
Oh, yeah,

Brock Goldberg:   30:58
I'm a big proponent for it. I go to therapy. It's changed my life, especially. You can find a good there

Penelope Lawson:   31:03
for sure. I don't love my therapist

Brock Goldberg:   31:06
is Yeah, but my guys Brandon, shut up. Brandon is Ah is an amazing, amazing therapist because he I don't know. You don't feel judged?

Penelope Lawson:   31:18
Oh, no, for sure. You know, it's like I was always so scared to do it, like looking at back and like, movies and stuff because, you know, it's always like one of people. It's like, What do you feel about you think? Just like now, Like I never want to go and have somebody like me like you're very heart and soul. And then they're like, How does that make you feel? Like What the fuck's Tonto eso like? I don't know. I've been a bit Yeah, I think it's just like now that I see that it's not like that. It's like It's very interesting and like, you know, it's like really good, but self discovery to man like It's made me, like, really into, like all these other weird hobbies that I never thought I would have, like

Brock Goldberg:   31:53
you open up parts of the brain that we've closed off. And that judgment factor is so huge that regardless of what you tell them, um, at least they make you feel like there's no judgment. Maybe in the back there, Heather, like this motherfucker.

Penelope Lawson:   32:10
I mean, they're great. And also, you know what else is awesome? I don't know if you've ever done it, but Ricky,

Brock Goldberg:   32:15
I have done it two times. I'll

Penelope Lawson:   32:17
give you her info. There's an amazing shek named Jules in Brentwood and jewels in Brentwood. Yeah, she has got like, I'll give you all her appreciate all the sound bowls and like the tuning forks and shit when your body you just like, feel like I can't explain it. She's just really good at her job. Like she's she's really got this like, ethereal connection. And she was like it was just I don't know stuff like that, and I saw another like a shaman and Florida like and Chamonix drumming any of that, you know, you can put you in the zone like it is like therapy is just one form of meditation and self care. Looking out is another one. You know, there's like so many

Brock Goldberg:   32:58
and you're 110% correct. And another one is taking mushrooms for May. Sell us Ivan. Play such a, ah, large role in things that I've had to work through. I don't I don't take them ever not. Not anymore. Having the pass it like as a recreational thing I do it now is a tool to try to work. This

Penelope Lawson:   33:21
is like a Chamonix kind of thing for sure, for

Brock Goldberg:   33:24
sure. I mean, if you look down the cultures in, like, you know, South America, Central America area and they're doing the IA wasco trips with Sean

Penelope Lawson:   33:32
may have some trouble even saying that Word Alaska. Yeah, I school. I don't know the thought like, I know so many people that swear by it, but the thought of like crying into a bucket with a bunch of other people vomiting in the same way, you know? And if I'm wrong about this, I'm very sorry. People are gonna probably, like, jumped down my over saying that it's like it's the

Brock Goldberg:   33:52
BMT and I've done d m t before. What is that like? It is? I've talked about it before in the pot. I know. Fucking girl. Say things 10 times yesterday. Like that's for these conversations. I'm gonna be Israel as I possibly can, and I'm gonna say how it is. So I will repeat things. So my d m t trip. It was at a time in my life where I was having a lot of suicidal thoughts. And as I've gotten older, I've looked at these tools that the suicide on LSD and the Deem T, which I had never done, but both of those two things as a tool to get me two things it's done, have amazing things, saved my marriage, got me out fucking drugs, cigarettes, things like that. And I was having these really dark thoughts. Um, and I was I called my friend because I knew he had it for me, and he'd been there for, like,

Penelope Lawson:   34:50
I sound so ignorant,

Brock Goldberg:   34:52
right? You smoke it. And so I hit him up. I did it at the studio that I used to record music all the time. It's just him and I. He played some music. I sat in bed and I took one hit like nothing much to second hit, definitely third hit. You're literally calls, like sitting on about it. First, you're literally sucked into this other dimension and you feel you look up wherever you're looking. It's as if it's not from here. Perspective. You ever seen like the the like UFOs And they have, like the beams like that. That's true down, right? That's exactly what everything looked

Penelope Lawson:   35:30
at you. Just a shout out

Brock Goldberg:   35:35
to Shepard Fairey Obey. I collect all of the shit. I love his work. But I

Penelope Lawson:   35:40
went to a show. Yeah, two years ago.

Brock Goldberg:   35:42
I want to show, like in December for my birthday shots. My cousin Zach. But yes. So it was as if I was at the bottom. So everything was looking at me from above down below.

Penelope Lawson:   35:53
It gave you perspective.

Brock Goldberg:   35:55
And so I remember seeing this face in these dark eyes know something, looking at me and connecting with me. And I thought it was my dad. I lost my dad when I was 17 and I started talking about? I just I opened up. I was like, I can't, um I I'm just done like I'm just like, you know, my back issues my fucking bipolar shit, my fucking fibromyalgia. I was just, like, done. I was suffocated and I was saying that to my dad and and he goes, Brock, it's It's not your time. It's not a time. You have a lot more to do. And I've remember coming out of this experience. And as I stand as I stood up, I was the most scared I've ever been. I was the most nervous I've ever been, but I didn't want to kill myself anymore.

Penelope Lawson:   36:42
That's crazy.

Brock Goldberg:   36:43
It's fucking insane. And so this this These things are used as tools if you let them right. But I Alaska all the

Penelope Lawson:   36:50
things like for shrimping it's like micro dozing and shit like that is supposed to be like life changing, absolutely who have like like depressive,

Brock Goldberg:   36:58
it opens up parts of your brain that you are normally using and so micro dozing for anyone that doesn't know what it is. It's not taking enough to make you fucked up.

Penelope Lawson:   37:09
You're not trying Thio zombie vegetable.

Brock Goldberg:   37:11
You don't actually feel anything, all right? Maybe a little bit of energy, but no visual stimulation. You're not hallucinating, but

Penelope Lawson:   37:19
you look in the mirror like one of those fun houses. Eso

Brock Goldberg:   37:25
is this funny? But people don't really realize it because these camera uses tool because prior to the like the 19 sixties, they were using LSD as a tool with a therapist and people trying to get off cigarettes trying to quit alcohol. And if you look at the studies from what has helped the most right, you'll have, um, you know, like working out. Then you'll have, like, nicotine patch nicotine gun, and those have, like a 13. I don't know the actual percentage rate, but it's super low, right? And then you look at LSD in the study on Explained via Netflix. Ah, there was an 80 to 90% reduction of people not smoking cigarettes for a year out a year to a like a year to a year out. Andi believe that because when I took LSD, I had a purpose and a talk that a lot of times in my life, But the very last time I took it, I was like to know, it was, like, 34 years ago, and I went on experience, and I knew that I wanted to quit smoking cigarettes. I was done. I couldn't. Everything else I tried, it didn't fucking work. And so it was like, Fuck it, I'm gonna do it. So I did a hero's does fucking LSD went through an amazing trip of my friend Had a cigarette since

Penelope Lawson:   38:41
no shit mushrooms have. Yes. So, like all of these things, right? And I'm not saying cigarettes or so bad, so bad. I can't say that I feel really sorry for all of the people that dated me when I was a smoker for like, all of that time, because I probably my clothes my face like, I was never really coming in for my parents. Like in front of my parents and like my dad's ever smoked a cigar in his life. And my mom spoke very briefly but stopped because I used to be like Mommy. You'll die like she reminds me of that, by the way. But she would be like Penelope, like wire. He was like, you clearly just smoked him like No, I didn't like I would think simpering like always smell. No, come on. But secrets are so dirty,

Brock Goldberg:   39:21
so crazy. How with proper education, Look what's happened to cigarettes, right? So we we try to ban things. We'd make things illegal, But then you have something like cigarettes where it's been legal forever. And then with enough time and proper education, less than 1% of people are starting smoking cigarettes and you could save apes. But like that's still, regardless of vaping, there's a huge because there's a point where you know, 30 40 fucking percent of the population.

Penelope Lawson:   39:50
Yeah, I mean, that sounds because they're letting people smoking like bars and restaurants, hospitals, lane, hospital, hospital theater is constant off. What the

Brock Goldberg:   39:57
fucking fuck is the hat? It's so weird to see I was watching that TV show. This is us. And in, like, the first season, or ever, like they're smoking cigarettes in the hospital like, really? Yeah, because it was like the 70

Penelope Lawson:   40:08
I used to love that show, but that I just got too depressing. And I think with the Fire and Jack happened and I was like, you know, they're just really, really fucking with my emotions.

Brock Goldberg:   40:16
It was it was for me. That show has meant a lot because special the first couple seasons. It was very like, if you ask anyone our fans like, very similar to my dad and, uh, the experiences, whatever. But it was just really like you touched me for me and I listened

Penelope Lawson:   40:32
to It was good, the first good. But after a while, I was like, You're manipulating. May I? D'oh! That's why I really am all about the comedy, man. Because I'm like you to feel good in my life right now. So

Brock Goldberg:   40:44
my drift so much like outside bullshit that pushes down on us and

Penelope Lawson:   40:47
shits Creek for May all day. It's great. You ever seen that show? Oh, my God. It's amazing. I never watched

Brock Goldberg:   40:54
the office because I thought it was

Penelope Lawson:   40:55
stupid at first. But then I started watching. It

Brock Goldberg:   40:57
is really good, so I want to kind of dial it back quick. So you move out here a few years ago. Um, you set out on a mission toe, you know, make movies, write those you go. What was kind of your first step in the industry when she got out of here?

Penelope Lawson:   41:15
Uh, I shot a bunch of stuff like a directed some stuff and made little projects here and there. But I was writing my my debut feature My One Night in San Diego.

Brock Goldberg:   41:26
What was behind all of that

Penelope Lawson:   41:28
behind when I say it was loosely based on a series of experiences that I had had, um, in in San Diego and around San Diego? Ah, but that I obviously took a lot of creative license with it. Um, but yeah, I mean, it was it was fun, right? I wrote it quickly. I actually write pretty fast. Okay, so, um, it was it was what sinks It just kind of came to me. I really try to write what you know. You know what I mean? Like, we're the world you're familiar with. Um, So I kind of did that on the night that I luckily was ableto get the funding I needed to make the film. Um, that shot,

Brock Goldberg:   42:06
it's the No, no. But like, I want to ask you about the writing process because you went to N Y u. You did all of that. So obviously you're at this point in your life where you understand at least the process right.

Penelope Lawson:   42:17
Well, the weird thing about him, why you was that? Like, I felt bad for people that went in that had never written a script or, like, had never really made and film before. Like, even though a lot of the shit I made it at Fordham was like like, some of it was dumb luck. I remember filming like my ex boyfriend running around in a rat costume, intermingling with real people like it was called ratboy. I'm sure service somewhere on the internet, but yeah, but But, like, when I went to my you like, I was like, Wow, like, if I didn't know how to construct story like, they don't really teach you that. Like, they expect you to already know

Brock Goldberg:   42:50
seriously. So prior to go in. And my you They expect you to understand that at least the right structure. That's why you're

Penelope Lawson:   42:56
there. Well, that makes sense, right? Yeah, but there were some people that had never written a script before, so that was interesting. But like, you know, I think over time I realized what worked. What didn't work? I shot a movie at N Y U. That did quite well. That was a shore. Um, that like I mean, I feel like grad school is such a weird place because it's like people just sit there and stare at you and then, like, you're never gonna make it in this town. You know what I mean are like, this is impossibly hard. And then it's like it is impossibly hard. But I'm also walking Zabel that it is possible.

Brock Goldberg:   43:24
It is so possible. It is.

Penelope Lawson:   43:26
So, you know, I made the feature, um, turned out awesome. Made some really wonderful, lovely friendships and connections during the feature. Um, and the two girls, Jenna and Laura, they're amazing. Yeah, I'm working with Generate now, actually, on a TV show. We just Jenna just directed the pilot, and I wrote it. Oh, and, uh, it's I got some really cool people in it. Um, and it's it's really, really funny. I think she did a really, really great job directing. So we're now I'm in the process of writing more episodes, so it's like a short form looking for young 15 minute kind of streamable

Brock Goldberg:   44:07
thing. So is it it's just gonna be like, if it's all gonna be online? Ah, word like pitching it to you chose. I mean,

Penelope Lawson:   44:16
I'm not exactly sure what we're gonna do with it right now. The moment we've just written, like, 15 minutes like short form episodes that, like we'd love for, like, to get

Brock Goldberg:   44:26
the funny I'll shoot the rest of them, and then we can kind of decide where we want to put him that experience going through one night. San Diego, where you was there, ever a point radical? Fuck. I don't know if there's actually gonna work, or from the moment you started. You know, I'm gonna see this all the way through whatever the fuck out.

Penelope Lawson:   44:41
Well, I mean, I definitely didn't. I wasn't like, I'm gonna shut it down, you know? I mean, like, I mean, there is obviously harder days, and then there was better days. Actually, everyone got along shockingly well on the film. There was no drama. Everyone was really, really professional and really cool. Um, there was definitely days that were harder because it was, like, cold or rainy or late. And like, overnights are the worst everyone wants.

Brock Goldberg:   45:06
Yeah, way definitely seem that way. But before you actually got the funding for it, I'm that writing process. Is that where you kind of that? That's like what you enjoy the best, Or is that the production part of it?

Penelope Lawson:   45:21
They're totally different, you know, because I've realizes have gotten older that, like, I'm really happy to write stuff for other people to direct. Um, okay, I just don't think that anyone would have been able to direct this movie because this was kind of like my baby. Yeah, and I lived it, so I wanted to direct it. You know what I mean? For sure. Um, but yeah, like, I definitely think that lake the writing process is really fun. But it's also really draining and tedious. And like we have table reads to, like, fix any problems that exist within the script. Um and yeah. I mean, like, we, you know, I was thankfully was able to have some really nice people comin Read the script out loud and, like, Yes, so many other people are always like, oh, table reads like, you know, like, oh, man, like what a great job I did. And it's like I don't want the table reefer that I wanted to know what's working and what isn't

Brock Goldberg:   46:11
for sure. for anyone listening that doesn't understand or know what a table read is. Can you explain that?

Penelope Lawson:   46:16
Yeah, it's basically what we take all of the like. Either the actors or some people that we wantto cast is like all the characters. And someone reads out loud all the narration and then all the people to read out the dialogue together.

Brock Goldberg:   46:28
So you're actually

Penelope Lawson:   46:29
so it's kind of like making the movie without actually like acting it out there, literally just reading it. So they do it for all shows and things like before they film them to just test everything, make

Brock Goldberg:   46:38
sure it's all working for you. When you were saying that you like to do the table reads in person, are obviously in person but like to kind of figure and work things out. It reminds me of like a band, like coming together. Someone writes the music. Then they get all the people together, and then they they make in them will fine tune certain things to make a flow better. Does that sound right?

Penelope Lawson:   47:01
Yeah, yeah, that's that's freaking awesome. I've never looked

Brock Goldberg:   47:03
at it like that, but you're really

Penelope Lawson:   47:04
cool. So we did the table read And then, uh, yeah, Then we shot Thea

Brock Goldberg:   47:09
The movie the film s O for For that what is the next step without you? No more. Is it gonna live? Where can people see it?

Penelope Lawson:   47:18
Um, we're talking to some distribution companies. At the moment. We're literally finishing up the final stuff in post, like

Brock Goldberg:   47:25
the animation ship, the beginning. And I'm excited.

Penelope Lawson:   47:28
Yeah, they just finished all the sounds stuff. So I'm excited for more people to see it.

Brock Goldberg:   47:34
Yeah, I think it's gonna be, uh

Penelope Lawson:   47:35
I hope it's gonna be one of those weird cult economist totally feels that it's like one of those movies your mental, like are like, you know, crack open a beer and watch it And like, it's meant to be like, good

Brock Goldberg:   47:48
fun. It is. It is really good fun.

Penelope Lawson:   47:52
And Romy and Michele there's, like, one of my favorite movies ever, and I'm not gonna lie like that movie like, Don't tell Mom the baby sitter's dad. All movies would like strong, cool, female independent characters that, like don't need no man or head like I like that.

Brock Goldberg:   48:08
Is that something that, um, kind of has always been who you are? like fuck that you don't need a man. You can do shit on your own.

Penelope Lawson:   48:16
Um, I would say that I definitely, really have always identified with strong female characters for sure. Um, I don't think that women need men to save them.

Brock Goldberg:   48:26
Yeah, it's true. It's true. Everyone's got their own shit like you can take care of yourself. I mean, obviously, there's different things in your life, But as a human being, women are definitely able to carry their own. And I mean fucking movies. It's It's awesome to see so watching that movie, when I went in and I didn't know what I was even getting myself into, But I was thinking about was even talking to us about it, to see people laughing for the entire fucking movie. It was awesome.

Penelope Lawson:   48:55
I'm happy because I was. So I was a nervous wreck before it's screened. And, uh, crow of please. Yeah, that was cool spot. And I was, like, So nervous. I think it was like crapping myself. And then people started laughing and I was like, Okay, honestly, I was just really nervous. Like what if the movie, like shuts out in the middle of its screening or something,

Brock Goldberg:   49:16
but that's that's what it is like. Anytime you put out a body of work, you put your heart and soul into something, and then you share it to the world. It's it's

Penelope Lawson:   49:24
nerve racking. I think especially comedy is our leader rocking because it's like there's no like middle ground. It's like either it's funny or it's not. You know what I mean? But thankfully, everyone has different tastes. Either everyone was really drunk or high or something that you heard it. You

Brock Goldberg:   49:38
knew it. You definitely. I mean, that's that's the point. Because people are fucking laughing and laughing. Their ass is off. Well, then something's right. Um s Oh, now you're working on this, this other Siri's. After that, you're figuring, you know, you're doing the distribution of this of this

Penelope Lawson:   49:55
time. I've written two other features that I'm like in the process of doing some stuffs with and ah, yeah, I know what I'm working on. A documentary with Pierce Who? I did the movie with

Brock Goldberg:   50:08
that school. What's gonna be about?

Penelope Lawson:   50:09
Um, it's about a an Irish singer, um named Ronan Tynan. Okay. Ah, he was in the three Irish tenors hey, still is And he's also just like an international singing sensation. He actually he saying it. Ah, Bushes! Funeral, Reagan's funeral. Okay, um, he used to sing God bless America for the Yankees. And the one point he ended up singing for the Red Sox. Hey, is also, um, an amputee. Both of his legs are amputated below the knee. Um, and he is very tall man, Uh, because he has, you know, the prospect legs. But he, uh, he's great. Really interesting guys. Also an equestrian special and being all kinds of really interesting dude.

Brock Goldberg:   50:55
What? What compelled you to do that? Like, how did you even first find out about

Penelope Lawson:   50:59
Oh, I've known him. Actually, he's like, he's like my older brother, a ronin. I love road, and he's a great guy. I've known him since I was a kid and ah, he's a wonderful, wonderful person. So I'm excited. I kind of thought about it, and I asked him if he would be down, and he was like, Yeah, I would.

Brock Goldberg:   51:19
That's amazing. I mean, to be able to go through that. How how did he end up losing his legs?

Penelope Lawson:   51:26
I believe it was as a child. He was basically just told that, like, he would either have never walk again or he would amputate. So he chose to a beauty.

Brock Goldberg:   51:36
That's Ah, you could never fully imagine having to go through something like that, you know? And I find it awesome that you're building ah, story around him in a documentary around him. Um, how he ended up singing for the Yankees and the Red Sox?

Penelope Lawson:   51:53
Uh, yeah, there was, like, a little, um, like a thing happened in New York, which we go into in the documentary. I'm not really gonna get into it now, but he ended up leaving a moving to Boston. Okay, um, and now he's saying he was singing for the Red Sox. I believe now he's also doing a residency in a school. He's doing so many things,

Brock Goldberg:   52:11
how he's able todo it just shows you like anything that you can face in your life. You can still push the room, persevere on dhe. That's you too, Like I love that you came out here been over three years, made the fucking movie. Now you're working on all these other things. Um, to be ableto have that driving motivation. Is there something that you can look at your life and say, OK, this is what fucking pushes me every day.

Penelope Lawson:   52:35
Um, I think what pushes me every day is the fact that I moved here for a reason. And I'm not leaving until I see it through. You know what I mean? I mean, seriously, like, I that's the big thing, is like, you know, I want to, like, put my money where my mouth is, you know, show up.

Brock Goldberg:   52:55
Absolutely, absolutely. And that's a That's a good I'm mindset to live by. You know, Azaz, human beings, Thio whatever the fuck it is. I mean, just look at ronin Write his story is amazing, right? You're faced with things in your life. And regardless of what that situation is to be able to push through and persevere, it's Yeah, it's it's courage. So, um, your parents are in Florida. You're out here. Um, what is going to be the next five years of your life? If you could look forward into the future, what would you see yourself doing the next 5 10 years?

Penelope Lawson:   53:34
Hopefully, I'll have a really successful ah couple of films and TV shows under my belt and, uh, hopefully all I'll be in a stable, committed, loving relationship. Uh, would someone other than myself and, uh, i'll be I'll be with just kidding. I'm not stable on. Then I'll be with my dogs with three lovely dogs. Um, yeah, I don't know, jokes that I don't know where I'm gonna be. I'm you know, I'm always trying new things. Um, I actually really into cooking, so I cook all the time. I went to culinary. That was one of the weird, random things that I did. Okay, Um, so much culinary school before I went back college and I could not stand the heat, so I got out of that kitchen as quick as possible. But I do cook at home all the time, so that's always really fun. So I love to do something more with that, like, outside of

Brock Goldberg:   54:27
film, for sure, having a zahabi or is like something else that you would pursue

Penelope Lawson:   54:32
as like, a hobby. I think you know, it's I think it's important, like I always try to have, like, non film based hobbies that I can like go to like Netflix and Shell is all finding good. Um, but like, e. I think that, like it's more, there's there's there's something important about having other outlets. Like to do stuff 100 is not related to, like your

Brock Goldberg:   54:53
job. Yeah, So many people kind of get caught up in the show that they're doing, and they forget, um, that we have to be doing other things. Having a hobby outside of work is

Penelope Lawson:   55:02
so for me, it's cooking. It's learning how to read Tero, which is like something I'm super in. You were supposed to bring in your your your man. I forgot, dear. I said I was so excited. I think I've never gonna have to come back when the list is here. And then I'll do it for her, for sure, for sure, for sure. And also, I don't know. If you want me to do an actual reading on, I would do it. Do you know that's

Brock Goldberg:   55:27
I'm I've always had a funny one without one, because with Tara Yeah. I mean, maybe there are people out there that can do it. Um, you know, like legitimately like, truly, truly do it.

Penelope Lawson:   55:39
Well, terrorism supposed tell you anything bad?

Brock Goldberg:   55:41
Oh, then I have no idea. Oh, it's not bad.

Penelope Lawson:   55:44
No, it's It's more like energy, like universal energy. Like if you have a question for Tero like spread. So I'm like just learning about, like, the major minor are Khanum like what? Different what they mean in Major Khanna? Yeah, like the types of cards. It's like I had no idea about tentacles. Really? You know, like, there's all different card. It's really interesting. And you could get really cool, Dex. Um I don't know. I just think they're interesting, like, you know,

Brock Goldberg:   56:13
for sure I'm a big, but what you said something key, though, is like energy. I'm a huge believer on energy. Um, that we put out and that we take in at the Yeah, I have no idea what the fuck this is all about, but ah, I do see how people can connect together. And if that's what it's about terror is that, um, definitely next time you come over, I want you to read it for me. Because

Penelope Lawson:   56:36
do a head that that in raking man Ricky is if you're really into the transfer of energy, then you should really look into the re giving.

Brock Goldberg:   56:43
That's where my mind I want to get the number of your friends. Yeah, she's great. I've had it done twice, and I'm not the type of person. When I get a massage, I can fall asleep. I can fully relax. And the £2 travel times, both times. Yeah. Well, fucking times

Penelope Lawson:   56:58
means they're good, but like, things were really barely touch your body. And, you

Brock Goldberg:   57:01
know, he never touched me, though. Weird. He never heat. It

Penelope Lawson:   57:06
was like above you. People have different methods for it. Like the shaman guy in Florida. He doesn't touch you. This lady lake touches your head. She also was like, psychic and medium ability. Ability is so like the conversational stuff you can talk about before. Honestly, she put a weighted blanket on me, and it felt like I was just falling asleep in a giant

Brock Goldberg:   57:25
hug. That's awesome. Wait a blankets ago. Anyone? Uh, we gotta listen. A couple of them, but they were not good, but I'm sure there's good ones out there. Do you like target? No, I don't need from fucking know about it. Maybe Costco. I don't know. It's probably not that I know and then went online too, So I know those for a fact. You know, when I asked you to come on to the podcast, I wanted to know a little bit about more about your life. Kind of where you came from, where you're going with next 5 to 10 years. Look like, um but

Penelope Lawson:   57:56
hopefully I'll be holding Oscar next

Brock Goldberg:   57:58
time I hear death, you definitely will. Definitely. Well, to think I it's it's just super mad props because to think, to be able to write something to put it out, to have that many people laughing. Stick with this shit. You fucking have something special here. And so I really look forward to seeing, you know, the next pieces of work that you put out. No mad, mad, mad, mad, mad man. Respect. Um, so as I kind of close this, uh, you know, I just always like to say thank you. Because

Penelope Lawson:   58:34
thank you. Brought

Brock Goldberg:   58:35
for you to come on here to even open up, share something about your life. Kind of get a little deep in personal. It does. It means it means the fuck to me. It means the world to me. So, um

Penelope Lawson:   58:46
well, you're a very easy gentlemen. Um, and yet you have some I wish people could like see inside this dope ass studio. It's fucking cool. I think it's rad. I keep looking. I'm like, Well, keep my whole heads, like, poking around. It's

Brock Goldberg:   59:02
almost done. I gotta finish this wall

Penelope Lawson:   59:03
like it's It's pretty rad,

Brock Goldberg:   59:05
man. You Thank you, Thank you. I love arm and I love I love street, our love shepherd.

Penelope Lawson:   59:09
My mom's a painter, and so I always have been really into art and, like, actually, she she did we We desperately needed a piece of art that was cleared for the show and like, it was like, very last minute. And it didn't occur to me until I realized there's a huge blank space on the wall and, like, you know, we're a small team. When we did the show, Eliza, we just worked on it. I'm sure she probably told you about it. And, uh, we have this painting that I remember my mother, like, slapped together really quick and like, it seems like two hours to get this painting for another show we worked on. And I kept it because I thought it was cool and he ended up using math So it's provident Lee featured in the entire show right now. That is so cool. Yeah, it's pretty funny.

Brock Goldberg:   59:50
It's interesting. Samana Dukes is Ah, she's a painter, huh? Yes, that's cool. Yeah, Cool. I I suck it art, but I appreciate it, as you can tell a little bit, and I just I don't know I love little shit, but Yeah. Penelope, thank you so much for coming around back to your starry. Have a good night, people.