The National Honey Board, American Honey Princess & more! (S6, E05)

S6, E05 - The National Honey Board, American Honey Princess & more! 

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Jeff Ott: Welcome to Beekeeping Today Podcast your source for beekeeping news, information, and entertainment presented by BetterBee. I'm Jeff Ott.

Kim Flottum: I'm Kim Flottum.

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Hey, everybody. Thanks again for joining. Boy, do we have a packed episode for you today? Before we get going, I do want to ask for your help to help us open a show by recording a greeting just like you've heard in prior episodes. Simply record yourself or your beekeeping group or even your family welcoming fellow listeners to the podcast and email it to us. It's easy and fun to do. Really, it really is. First up on the episode is the 2023 American Honey Princess Allison Hager. I've invited her to talk about the American Beekeeping Federation's, Honey Queen Program and her role as a spokesperson for honeybees and honey.

Following Allison and keeping up with the theme of honey and honey bee promotion is Keith Seiz from the National Honey Board. He joins Kim and me to talk about the National Honey Board and their hive sessions. A series of educational videos designed to educate, inform, and help beekeepers, and others in the industry sell more honey. It's a wealth of information made available by the National Honey Board and it's available for free on their website. It's invaluable to any beekeeper wishing to promote their honey. All right, next up. Let's talk to Allison.

Hey everybody, I'm sitting here right now with Allison Hager. Allison is the 2023 American Beekeeping Federation, Honey Princess. Allison, it's a pleasure having you on the show. As the American Beekeeping Federation Honey Princess, you travel around the US promoting honey and honey bees and pollination and the whole entire beekeeping industry, what about honey bees do enjoy talking about the most?

Allison: I am a big person that really likes to educate about pollination. I think growing up I didn't always understand what that quite meant so that's one of my favorite topics to discuss to all ages is to really explain that pollination is so vital. 1/3 of the food that we eat every day is dependent on pollination. I just love sharing facts surrounding pollination.

Jeff: What's the term of the queen and princess? Is it from January to January?

Allison: Yes.

Jeff: Did it coincide with the conference?

Allison: Yes. Our reign. We are in this position for a year. January to January.

Jeff: Oh my God. I assume you're in your busy period right now because you go around to the festivals and fairs and shows.

Allison: Exactly.

Jeff: How much traveling do you do?

Allison: There's quite a bit of travel involved with this position. I would say we're pretty busy at the beginning of the year, it's slowed down a little bit but like you said, we're getting geared back up to going to all the state fairs and all these festivals here in the August month so a lot of travel but it's really cool seeing new people and talking to beekeepers and people that really don't have much education about honeybees and just really explaining their vital importance to agriculture.

Jeff: How did you start in beekeeping? What got your interest initially in beekeeping?

Allison: I'm from Iowa. Through the Iowa Honey Producers, they have a scholarship for the youth to get started in beekeeping so that's how I got started. I was about 13, 14 years old. I got that scholarship and ever since then, I've been beekeeping or advocating for honeybees and other pollinators as well.

Jeff: That's fun. I think many of us had started very young and it just continued into a lifetime passion. It's fun that you're able to carry it on, even now. Are you in college, are you a graduate? What are you doing when you're not being the princess?

Allison: I actually graduated from Iowa State University. I graduated with--

Jeff: Congratulations.

Allison: Thank you. Business Management was my major and then minored in entrepreneurship.

Jeff: Oh, very good. This role is a stepping stone further into your career that you've chosen through school.

Allison: Exactly, business is a really open field. I really like it for that option, especially with entrepreneurship, it really helps if I want to get more into beekeeping and selling products that way so not only will it help me in my professional career, but also for my side hobbies as well.

Jeff: You've traveled around the country and you're going to do some more. What have you experienced to date, that has surprised you in your journeys, the people that you've met?

Allison: I would say, I think children are starting to understand more what pollination is, and maybe there's different ways that everyone can help. Like I said, growing up, I don't think I really fully grasp that concept but I'm seeing now that before I go to give a presentation, a lot of children are like, "Oh, I love bees, they help us." I think that's just a really cool thing to see that schools are incorporating this really important topic into their education system. It's really cool that I get to go in there as well and give them more facts and more information for them to understand that really there is a way that we can help planting flowers, just being an advocate for honeybees in general. There's just so many different ways that we can all help and I think that's one of the main things that has really surprised me so far.

Jeff: Kids they seem to like to see bumps, I think if there's the mixed message there, seed, flowers, bump. Cool. That's crucial right after the 4th of July, so it's probably top of my mind I prefer. You're going to be in Washington state later this month on July 22nd, for the Washington State Beekeepers Association, Pollination Fest in Olympia, Washington. What are you looking forward to there and what will you be doing at the festival?

Allison: At the Pollinator Knowledge and Fun Fest, I will be there just talking with everyone who attends, possibly giving some presentations, as well. Pretty much the main goal there is to really just explain what beekeeping is really focusing on the commercial side of beekeeping. They feel that that area doesn't quite always understand what commercial beekeeping is, so I'm just there just to give more information about what commercial beekeeping is. I'm just very excited to meet new people in that area and just continue educating others about beekeeping, pollination, honey products, just really striving to get the word out that there's something that we can all do to help honeybees.

Jeff: One last question, what question have you not been asked that you've been ready for, but no one's ever asked you?

Allison: That's a very good question. I usually get a lot of questions that I don't quite know how to answer. I've gotten a lot of questions about ants and wasps, stuff that I'm not quite familiar with. I don't know if there's particularly a question that I've never been asked, I've just been waiting for.

Jeff: You've been prepped well then and all your experiences coming into play. That's fantastic. Allison, is there anything that you would want to let our listeners know about that I haven't asked you about?

Allison: I think we've pretty much-covered everything. Like you said, I'll be in Washington, July 22nd for the Pollinator Knowledge and Fun Fest from 10:00 AM to 5:00 PM so I'm really excited for that.

Jeff: If any of our listeners are program managers for their State Festivals, they can contact you through the American Beekeeping Federation website.

Allison: Yes, there's a website. We also have a Facebook page as well, the American Honey Queen Program page, you can contact us or just see what we're up to on our Facebook page as well.

Jeff: All right. Alison, it's been a pleasure having you on the podcast. I look forward to seeing you later this month and maybe we'll get a chance to chat again.

Allison: Awesome. Thank you so much for having me.

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Jeff: While you're at the Strong Microbial site, make sure you click on and subscribe to the Hive, the regular newsletter full of interesting beekeeping facts and product updates. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the show. Sitting across the virtual table right now is Keith Size from the National Honey Board here to talk about the National Honey Board and all the programs they have going. Keith, welcome to Beekeeping Today Podcast.

Keith: Thanks for having me. I'm looking forward to this. I'm a frequent listener, so excited to be on the podcast.

Kim: Nice to meet you, Keith. Anybody with the Honey Board usually is pretty well prepared.

Keith: [laughs]

Jeff: If you're a frequent listener, let me punch your card for you so you get credit for attending today.

[laughter]

Jeff: All right. Good, good, good. National Honey Board has been around for a long time. Can you tell us a little bit about the history of the National Honey Board and bring us up to today?

Keith: Yes. We are a industry-funded group, so that means the industry funds the work the National Honey Board does. Our goal is really to promote the use of honey throughout the food supply, so everybody from consumers to food service, restaurants, and chefs and what personally I've been working on for the last 14 years, working with large food and beverage manufacturers, breweries, distilleries, all trying to get them to use honey in their products or create a better honey section at the retail store. That's really our mission, is promoting honey throughout the United States. Don't sell honey. Our beekeepers, our goal is really just to get people to realize what an amazing ingredient this is.

Jeff: Originally, the Honey Board and the original Congressional Act was funded by beekeepers and then a few years ago it changed and now it's funded by the packers?

Keith: By imported honey into the United States. Yes, that's what funds it right now. That's where we get our funding to run our various marketing programs that are all designed to elevate all people who make honey from the backyard beekeeper to the commercial beekeeper. As long as it's pure honey, that's what we care about.

Jeff: To differentiate yourself from the manufactured biological by some bacteria type of techno honey.

[laughter]

Keith: Oh, you're seeing a lot of techno honey nowadays being written about. Not a lot on the marketplace yet, but boy, it makes for a good story I think for some newspapers.

Jeff: No ChatGTP Honey then. That's good.

Keith: No.

Jeff: That's good.

Keith: Not for me. I trust bees. [laughs]

Kim: Keith, you say you're funding imported honey. If I am a honey importer, I go to Australia and I want to import some Australian honey, how does that work in terms of the National Honey Board being funded by that transaction?

Keith: It's an assessment that's paid on per pound of honey that comes in. That's how we get our funding for the various programs.

Kim: The importer collects that, notify somebody, and then essentially sends them a check?

Keith: Yes. Essentially, yes. There's a couple more other more complicated steps and a lot of paperwork, but yes, that's essentially it.

Kim: All right. Well, that gives me a background. Gives what keeps you guys going. From my perspective, having somebody from Australia fund you is a much more attractive option than having me fund you if I can make that work. I'm glad it's working out for you.

Keith: It really works for the entire industry because if you look at per capita honey consumption in the United States, it has continually risen for many years. It's just an insatiable demand for honey in the United States right now and all sorts of products, not only just as a traditional sweetener but really everywhere from high-end restaurants to now you can't go to a fast food restaurant without seeing a honey chicken sandwich, hot honey chicken sandwich, and food products.

You stroll down any supermarket and there's this groundswell of support and I think it's because people not only realize the importance of consuming a natural sweetener like honey, but I think they're getting the message across that beekeepers play a really, really important role in the world's food system and we need to do everything we can to make sure beekeepers have a end user for their product to keep them funded, to keep them keeping healthier bees. It's really a great time in terms of just what Americans' perception of honey is right now.

Kim: Well, one of the things that you just mentioned caught my attention and you were talking about consumption per person. When I was with Bee Culture Magazine for a lot of years, at the end of the year, USDA puts out a whole bunch of reports. It talks about honey production in every state and how much went into loan, how much is steady in warehouses, that sort of thing, how much was exported.

You put all those numbers into a pitcher, shake it up, pour out a glass, and you've got about individual consumption of honey. When I first started pushing 40 years ago was right about a pound per person. This year when I did that report, I came up with about-- I was going to say about 1.4 pounds per person, which was down from last year by my numbers from about 1.6. What are you seeing on individual consumption?

Keith: Just like any food product, if you look at what happened during COVID, it drove people to the supermarket which is where those numbers are tracked from. Everything jumped in 2021 across the board. If you look at website traffic on food industry sites, everything was 2021 straight through the roof. Then once people started going back to "normal" and getting out more, a lot of those products naturally fell because people were out eating in restaurants. I think that decline, that minor decline was reflective of that. It was just recognized-- Not say you throw out the 2021 numbers. [chuckles] I expect consumption to steadily grow for the future just because all signs are pointing to it's what consumers want.

Kim: Well, I never thought about COVID and honey being related, but now that you put it in the same sentence, that makes perfect sense and it makes me feel a little bit better about the numbers that I came up with it. They're actually reflecting some of the stuff that's going on. I was right.

[laughter]

Keith: If you think about it, just think of how many people became "professional bakers" while they're stuck at home and were making artisan bread using honey. That's across the board. Every ingredient sold so much in 2021 if you were at the retail level just because of what was going on. If you were an ingredient like honey where everybody all of a sudden wanted to be a baker and wanted to start fermenting garlic with honey on their countertop table and all that other fun stuff, it led to a huge bump.

Jeff: Maybe look at the five-year trend as opposed to a year-to-year difference.

Keith: Yes. Year-in-year-out, you're going to see fluctuations, pricing. Right now we're dealing with extremely high prices throughout the food industry, inflationary pressures. You're seeing people trade down. It'll be interesting, I think, at the end of this year to see how that shakes out. I feel will be good just because the value of honey beyond any kind of price point I think is recognizable by most people nowadays.

Jeff: Back to the importing and Kim's comment about Australian honey-made, think about Manuka honey. If it's brought in for medicinal purposes or medicinal honey, is that also, and I shouldn't say tax, does that also have the assessed if it's used for medicinal purposes as opposed to food products?

Keith: I'm honestly not sure of that. That's not really in my wheelhouse, the assessment collecting, so I'm not sure of that question.

Jeff: I guess it would depend if it's already on a bandaid or not. [laughs] I don't know.

[laughs]

Jeff: I don't know. That's an interesting question. Maybe one of our listeners has the answer. I do want to encourage our listeners to, and I'll state this again, multiple times in our discussion to check out the honey.com website, because the resources that are available there for everyone from-- As Keith was saying, from a backyard beekeeper to industrial beekeeper. There's resources there that you can use.

Keith: Definitely. Yes. It's something we're really proud of and love, putting as many resources as we can out there to help everybody in the honey industry succeed.

Kim: Forever, the Honey Board has worked hard to give beekeepers importers, anybody who has the first touch of honey, tools to help them convince their customers to buy some or buy more and that goes from all of the-- We have a local farm market here in town and I walk by, there's a couple three beekeepers and two of them have National Honey board things sitting on their table, telling why their honey is good or why honey is good. That's one more thing I don't have to do as a beekeeper is come up with that, make it happen, and then get it on the table at the farm market. You guys are expanding a lot on the information that you're sharing with beekeepers and I think that's where Jeff and I want to go today, at least partially. You've got something called hive sessions, at first thought it makes me think about, you're going to tell me how to keep my bees and I'm wondering if that's the case or if there's some-- If there's more going on here than just that.

Keith: There's definitely more. You don't want me telling you how to take care of your bees, Kim. I know a lot about honey, the chemical composition of honey. I know enough about beekeeping to hack my way through somebody who doesn't know anything about beekeeping, but no.

[laughter]

This is something that, for the honey industry. Whether you are a backyard beekeeper, a regional player, whether you have 50 hives. What it is, is we were really looking at all of the ways we can support beekeepers or anybody who's selling honey. We used to do, and we're bringing it back this year, this program called the Honey Industry Summit. It was in October of every year and it's where anybody in the honey industry could come. It was a day-long educational event that I put together the agenda for.

The whole goal was, okay, you've made, you and your bees have made this beautiful honey. Now how do you make sure you can sell it to, who should you sell it to? What are the advantages? How do you position honey? Any kind of in-person event is going to attract some people, but it can't reach everybody just because people don't have the budget or the time to fly to Denver to do this. We launched this year what's called our hive sessions. What it is, is it's this new program where the first two batches of video, we've done two batches. Volume one and volume two. They're 5 to 10-minute videos that talk about specific segments of the food industry that are ripe for more honey usage. So for example, we did one on sauces.

If you look at a supermarket, go down shopping for any sauces, dressings, condiments. It's one of the fastest-growing segments of honey usage in the industry. Just because, those manufacturers used to be able to put any sweetener in, consumers didn't care, they didn't read the back of the label. They could add anything and they could still sell it. Now consumers are caring what's in their food way more than ever. They're starting to take advantage of honey. There's also this technical knowledge surrounding honey and sauces that honey is acidic. It's got a pH of 3.9. If a sauce manufacturer uses honey, they get a lot more--

They have to reach a certain acidity of that product to make it shelf stable and they usually do that by adding citric acid, stuff like that. Now they can use honey, take care of their sweetener, take care of their acidity, and bam, you've eliminated two or three ingredients and just use honey instead. We have all this knowledge and the question is how do we tell people about this? Whenever they, go talk to somebody about honey, they can impart this knowledge. That's why we really launch this and it's looking at various segments of the food industry as well as what consumers respond to about honey and just 5, 10-minute videos that hopefully a beekeeper watches them, a packer and goes, okay, that makes sense. This is how I'm going to talk about honey whenever I talk about it.

Kim: I'm a beekeeper and I've got pales of honey sitting out in the garage that I've harvested this year, and okay, where am I going to get rid of this stuff? Which is, you don't want to say that out loud, but how can I market this. That's beneficial for my operation and for the people who are purchasing and using it as an end product. I, as a beekeeper, I'm going to go to the end product person and say, what?

Keith: If I have pails of honey, I'm going straight to my local brewery distillery because I've never met a local brewer distiller that doesn't want to explore and do some fun things with honey, especially on the beer industry side. That's what if I had just 5, 10 pails of honey sitting around, that's what I would go with. If I'm looking at selling it at the farmer's market or to a small local bakery or something like that, I'm really going with three messages. The first one is that we know there's this value of eating a natural ingredient that comes from nature. We know honey has trace amounts of antioxidants, of minerals. It's not manipulated in any way. That naturally makes honey, just a sweetener that people should be choosing. I think it's also important to talk about how honey is essential to the entire food industry. Mainly through beekeepers, through bees that are pollinating, more than a third of the foods we eat as humans.

If we lose honeybees, we lose not just honey, but our really ability to have avocados, widespread, that kind of thing. That message is really resonating as well, the important role that honeybees play. Then I think the final one is just the role of the beekeeper. There's a return to having a lot of-- There's a lot of positive sentiment in this country nowadays, which has been absent from farming, the agriculture industry, things like that. People realizing that this stuff isn't easy. It's not an easy job and I think that's another big way to promote honey is that whenever you're buying honey, you are helping a beekeeper who's helping bees, who are then pollinating. It's this whole chain that really makes the food world go around if you will. I know that sounds heavy and all-important, but it really is. I can't stress enough, the importance of keeping that chain going to our whole food system.

Jeff: This is a great place to take a quick break and we'll be right back.

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Kim: You've outlined what the product is, pure honey. We're getting closer to having that. Most of the time it's still not out there. If you look hard, sometimes you can find a beer on a grocery store shelf that's got more than one ingredient in it, but most of the time what beekeepers are selling is pure honey. Nothing added, they all taste the same. The pH is the same in terms of being able to use it. You mentioned somebody that's making a beer. Why would a brewer not buy from me and buy from the lady next door?

Keith: Yes. I think it's a great question. I think it's a lot to do with, what's generally true in food. It's the story, people want to know where they're buying their food from. That's why everybody loves going to farmer's markets. That's why you even see the largest food manufacturers in the country highlighting farmers on the back of their products. Specific farmers where they got their corn from, where they got their wheat from, that kind of thing. I think beekeepers can apply that too. If the product's not that different, don't be afraid to tell your story. People, it's-- It shocks me, I talk to honey from everybody from the largest food company in the world to my daughter's third-grade class. I even go talk about honey and honeybees to the local nursing home every year in my community just because I love it, and they know that's what I do. It still surprises me, even some of the most sophisticated innovative people in the food industry, people who went to college to study food science. If you ask them anything about honeybees and how honeybees make honey, zero clue, zero idea.

[laughs]

It always surprises me. I think us in the industry assume everybody at least knows the basics of what honeys are doing whenever they visit a flower. Then from that point on, I think a lot of them probably think they're pulling honey right out of that flower. Don't even know the role pollen plays in their diet or something like that. I think how a beekeeper distinguishes themselves, their operation is by really almost being science educator.

Tell your story, tell where your bees are at, and how you extract the honey because most people don't have an idea. I think if you can tell that story to whether it's somebody who's stopping by at a farmer's market, whether it's a brewery buying it or a local bakery, they're going to want to buy honey from somebody that has that story and can communicate to them what they're actually buying. I think that's really essential.

Jeff: Are these what you are discussing in the Hive Sessions, the different marketing approaches, the different aspects of selling the honey to your potential buyer, whether they're an industrial buyer or--

Keith: That's what the hive sessions are really dealing. The first batch mainly focused on the industrial market just because I already do all this all the time. Let's get off with this material. As we do more and more we're going to be talking specifically about the food service industry, retail even maybe dipping into farmer's markets, things like that. It's going to be something that is updated every quarter and there is going to be something I really feel for everyone once we get a good library.

We started with the industrial segment just because that's where there was a lot of knowledge that was needed because there's it's a lot of honey out there that needs to be sold. We're going to be expanding it every quarter with all different segments. It's going to be something that's exciting to as we go along and hear feedback from the audience of what they want to cover. Because whenever you go to the website you can ask a question or give us a topic that you want to hear us cover in a future one. I encourage everybody doing that.

Jeff: Where are these hive sessions located?

Keith: If you go to honey.com and there's a honey industry section and a resources section, it's not an easy website [laughs]. I Would tell everybody just to email me keith@honey.com and I will send you the link and I'll make sure you're on our email list of people who get that whenever we launch a new one, we can send out an email.

Jeff: Is It available on YouTube also?

Keith: No, right now, since it's just industry, these are really industry-specific things. We're being, we don't want to broadcast it out to the world yet because it is a honey industry thing. As long as you're a beekeeper, something like that, we're fine. Not that we put proprietary information or anything like that in there, but we do have a lot of honest conversations about the strengths of honey, and the marketing plan for promoting honey that we don't necessarily want out to everybody. That's people who wouldn't be in the industry.

Kim: When I take a look at these, there's lots of information in there that has no value for me in terms of keeping my bees alive, making sure that they're healthy in that there is lots of information in there that an industrial user may not be aware of. Are you running into that? Are you seeing that? I've used honey for 20 years. I put it in whatever, and that's all I use it for. You as selling honey can say, you can do this and this. You don't have to expand your horizons, you don't have to spend a lot of money. You can be using honey to make more products or the same products better. How do I get that message to an industrial user?

Keith: That's good, you can get that message to an industrial user by watching these hive sessions. The first two volumes really have that in information on there about that industrial user. They're meant for people in the honey industry to watch. Then to go out there and communicate that how you can also get that information is by reaching out to me. That's literally what I do every working day for the last 13 years. I work with a lot of people in the honey industry that are going to see, say a large bakery and how do I position honey? How can I better promote honey? Then I sit down with them, talk to them, things like that's, our role is to help the industry sell more honey.

That's a lot of what this Hive Sessions is doing and we do a lot of it on our own, which is another reason why I love my job is I can go talk to the largest beverage company in the world and it can be purely educational and I don't care where they buy their honey from as long as they're buying pure honey and they understand the importance of that. That's it's not I'm giving a talk and then dropping a purchase order at the end of the desk and saying, "Buy my honey."

Just a rising tide lists all ships and that's really the role of the honey board is to just get everybody excited about honey. They buy whether they're at the supermarket, at the farmer's market, whether they buy a bottle of tea with honey in it or something like that.

Jeff: You mentioned the quality of honey. Does the honey board do anything in regards of research for testing of honey to ensure that it's 100% honey and to prevent adulterated honey getting into the country?

Keith: Yes, we're not a testing organization. We have a pretty narrowly defined, obviously all the big honey groups out there. I speak at a lot of them and there's always all the testing labs there talking about the latest tests and that's a huge concern for us and it's something we promote. As for ourselves it's funny we're under USDA oversight, so we have a pretty narrowly defined order of what we can and can't do. We're not a lobbying organization, we can't do any lobbying on behalf of the industry. We're really purely a promotional in the research arm of the honey industry. We don't really get into testing other than preaching the message that makes sure, the honey you're using is pure honey.

Kim: Adulterated honey is close to the top of one of the bigger problems all beekeepers have everywhere. The thing that was done at the honey show in the UK this year, some huge percent of the samples were adulterated. They're seeing it. If I'm a beekeeper and I'm trying to sell you my honey or sell honey from at all, how do I convince you? Where do you need to go to find out that what I'm giving you is good stuff?

Keith: I guess it would depend on your size if you're not a huge operation, I think it's just like anything else you're buying a relationship so if they trust laughs you, you're good. Now obviously the bigger guys, if I'm General Mills and I'm buying the honey for my granola bars that are available nationwide, they're getting that tested regularly because that's the last thing they want.

Food safety is such a serious issue in the United States that large suppliers, they're the large food manufacturer than beverage manufacturers that are buying honey as well as almost any ingredient. It comes with a significant amount of testing, things like that to ensure because they get in a lot of trouble. Recalls are really expensive. The industry especially here in the United States, due to the focus on food safety, that's a level of security and protection people have that the honey they're getting is honey.

Kim: I'll go back to adulterated honey. It's not something that the honey board is set up to focus on, but the second question my customer asks me is, how do I know that my honey is pure? The first question of course, is this your honey? Yes. How do I know it's pure? You didn't add something or whatever. From a beekeeper's perspective or a honey seller's perspective. I can come in with tests from 20 labs that might do it or might not, I don't know, [laughs] but what would you suggest that I as a seller what tools would I use to convince the person I'm trying to sell this to to convince them that I got good stuff here?

Keith: Really the only tool, if they're not a trusting person, if they're just saying straight up, I think all the only tool we really have is to get it tested. Because you can have them out to your hives and everything like that. I think once they see that story, but if they're not a trusting story, there's too many beekeepers to have, somebody going out and inspecting the extraction sheds of every beekeeper in America. It really has to come down if they need testing, you got to get it tested. I don't know how else you would convince them on a. scientific level, other than just saying taste it, it's beautiful, beautiful honey.

Jeff: I'll taste it first, I'll show you, it's good.

Keith: I wish there was a simple way you could stick something in and it turns red if it's-- Yes that would be great, but unfortunately it's a complex ingredient to say the least.

Jeff: That is a rabbit hole because then we were joking about it early on and talking about the artificial honey produced by bacteria in a lab. Boy, you start thinking about all the possibilities then you could really lose your mind because it's really difficult to prove a negative.

Keith: Yes and those products are going to be interesting because it was just today or yesterday they authorized the first lab-grown meat here in the United States. It's not the same process but essentially it's the same method that they're proposing for synthetic honey kind of thing. Why, is the big question. I've sat in enough focus groups with consumers to ask them about synthetic honey, and the first question of every consumer says is why would I do that? Why wouldn't I just go buy honey? Why do we need anything synthetic?

It's inevitable, I think it's just the way the food industry is going. Somebody's always going to try to come up with a way to replace something to make something from a science fiction perspective, and we as an industry just need to keep on beating the drum of this, let's rely on something that bees have been doing for hundreds of thousands of years. That's probably a better way that Mother Nature intended for us to consume our honey, rather than made in stainless steel tanks.

Jeff: I'll second that. That's for sure.

Kim: One of the products you talk about in one of the sessions is flavored whiskey, and that got my attention. Is that something that I can work with a whiskey producer with, and take it the next step, is my honey that's really sweet going to be different than my honey that has a bite to it? How can I best use my product working with people? I've had honey-flavored whiskey and I'm going to have some more.

Keith: Goodness, eight years ago there wasn't really a market for honey whiskey. There were a few around but it hadn't picked up steam and then it was an avalanche of products from all the main distillers. Your Jack Daniels, your Jim Beams, your Wild Turkey. Now we're seeing just like we saw the growth of craft brewing, we're seeing craft distilling. This is really the opportunity for beekeepers, is and whatever I said if you have a couple pails of honey, or 10 pails, or 20 pails of honey, I would think any distiller would do it, because to make honey whiskey is pretty simple at its heart.

Meaning they can take their base whiskey blend in honey, and you've however sweet or less sweet you want to make it you can do that. The real key is though is I think the taste of that honey, and your question of if I have a sweeter honey, or maybe a more lighter delicate floral honey, I wouldn't want to necessarily hold those for whiskey producers. I'd hold those for bakeries. Darker honeys tend to pair better with darker spirits like bourbons, because a lot of those especially distillers they want a little sweetness, but they want like you said that bite. Some of the best honey whiskeys I've had have been with buckwheat honey. As you know that's a unique flavor, it's robust, it's got some funkiness aromas, it's got some horse blanket on there.

Jeff: That's a good description.

Keith: Using that in a whiskey generally the darker the stronger it really pairs well with those darker spirits. Whereas, if I was creating a honey vodka or something like that give me something light and floral because I want more of that nose, that floral notes to come through. There's definitely ways you can play that. One thing that I love about, we work with a brand called Caledonia Spirits up in Vermont and they have a Barr Hill this line of spirits called Barr Hill.

Their vodka is distilled 100% from honey. They make a mead, distill the mead, and then that's their vodka, but then their real popular product is their gin product and it's just a gin with juniper and honey in it. They buy all honey from Vermont where they're located and then a little more on the northeast, but instead of most big players where they want a consistent product year-round, they celebrate the fact that their product that they make in the fall is going to have a bit more bite in it just because the honey has a bit more bite in it than usually the product that they're making in spring.

I think the big guys they want that Tennessee Jack to taste Tennessee Jack every single time. Whereas, craft distillers are going to embrace something that's unique, something that's flavorful, something that has a story and a bite to it. They're going to celebrate that.

Jeff: Limited supply probably too.

Keith: Yes exactly, because then you can charge a pretty penny for it.

Jeff: Well that's right. The guys in Detroit Bees and the D, they sell their limited bourbon honey, a honey bourbon, bourbon honey. It sells out, they set it up for an auction for their organization and it sells out they cannot keep it, so that's it's making it exclusive is a great approach.

Keith: There's a distillery down in Nashville Green Brier and then the brand I think is Nelson Brothers. Every year, we did an event with them and then they started making this product it's called their Honey Cask. So they essentially have one of their whiskey barrels drain the whiskey out, take it to a local beekeeper, that beekeeper dumps all of his honey in the barrel. Then it sits for I think 90 days. Then they drain the honey out, give that back to the beekeeper to sell and then they put whiskey back in it.

This has become such a popular-- It sells out, there's lines around the block. It retails for $199 a bottle, but you can get it on the secondary market for upwards of $1500. It's just mind-blowing to me, as somebody who's grown up in the Midwest seeing that type of price attached to alcohol whatever I first saw that I'm like I don't even fathom. It is wonderful though. I will say that it is wonderful.

Jeff: Hey Kim, I see a new business model for Growing Planet Media Beekeeping Today podcast. It could be Beekeeping Today Podcast Bourbon Honey.

Kim: There you go. I've tried some of that. There was a distiller and a beekeeper up in I want to say Washington. This has been a few years ago now and they're still doing it, but I want more. Like I said it's exceptionally good. Keith you've got two of these out and you're going to put one out a quarter. What's coming down the road on these sessions?

Keith: One out a quarter. We've got our next one coming out, probably around September, and that one is going to be dealing with restaurants and food services. More's probably more approachable to smaller beekeepers if they want to go sell their honey to a local restaurant that kind of thing. We're going to be taking that tact, and then what I would recommend, is that if anybody has any ideas that would help them email me at keith@honey.com and we'll try to get it on the schedule.

Just we can't address bees though just because that's we're not experts on bees, we're the honey board. Always have to explain that to people. We're not the American beekeeping federation. We're the honey board, so you don't want us talking about bees because I'm sure we'll get quite a bit wrong.

Kim: Well Keith this has been fun, and I know we've just scratched the surface on what you've already done and what you've got planned, but I'm going to guess that there's something that we missed that you wanted to get mentioned here.

Keith: The only other thing is if you are interested in coming to one of our in-person events for the honey industry, it's going to be held October 25th in Boulder Colorado. It's the Honey Industry Summit and you can reach out to me if you want more details on that. That is a great event where we go over a lot of information. Basically, the whole goal is how to sell and position honey so it's a real fun event. Then also go to honey.com, because that's a great website to get all your resources on everything the National Honey Board is doing.

Jeff: We will have a link to your website and we'll have a direct link to these Hive sessions. I will put that in the show notes as well, so our listeners can go there directly and check out all the work, fine work I will say, that the National Honey Board is doing on behalf of all beekeepers.

Keith: I tell you what beekeepers make it easy. Whatever we can get a product that tastes as amazing as honey with the story of it, it makes my job 10 times easier.

Jeff: I need to ask you, you're sitting there and we're going to wrap up here real quick I promise everybody. You have a shirt on that says Team Honey is that available on the Honey Board website?

Keith: No, it's not. So, maybe in the future, this is something we did just because we go to a lot of trade shows, we host a lot of our own events, and we'll be at an event that will be running and people will just show up and they won't know who to go talk to, so we're like, we need team honey shirts. We wear these, it's brand new, maybe that's something for next year, we will put on the website.

Jeff: Yes, I'll put my order in now, Keith, medium, please. All right, it's been wonderful having you on the show, Keith. Looking forward to having you back, because there's so much to talk about what National Honey Board does as Kim had stated, I'd like to talk about honey varietals and marketing those, that would be a great topic for all beekeepers as well.

Keith: Next time, I'll just make sure to send Kim some honey whiskey before, so we can [crosstalk].

Jeff: No, send it to him afterwards, because we don't want to have it before this recording.

[laughter]

Keith: Perfect. Thanks so much for having me, though, really appreciate, and really appreciate the work you guys are doing to educate beekeepers to really deliver this amazing substance that I get to talk about.

[music]

Jeff: Thank you, Keith, I appreciate it.

Kim: Thank you, Keith, it's been a good time.

Keith: Definitely.

Jeff: Like I said in the beginning, talking with the National Honey Board is like old home week for me, used to do a lot of work with him when I lived in Colorado. They're a great organization.

Kim: Their focus has changed just a tad, but their energy hasn't changed at all. Listening to Keith come right through the screen. He got excited about some of these things, and that's good to hear. We who sit in the weeds and just complain a lot about not being able to sell honey need to listen to him. All of these hive sessions he's going to have going on, I'm excited about this. There's got to be a lot of good information available for beekeepers to tell customers, why they should buy more honey.

Jeff: It is a wealth of fantastic information, it's information that works. I really encourage our listeners to go out and just browse. You can spend a long time at the National Honey Board website. I will tell you, we're talking about what the honey board does, Mary Human who used to be the Director of Marketing years ago said once and I took it to heart. She said, "You don't want to put anything out that's not as perfect as honey."

That is reflected and I'm paraphrasing what she said, I apologize to Mary if I really butchered what she said, but that really reflects the quality of the information, the photographs, the marketing material that is available for the beekeepers on the National Honey Board website and in their resources page. Everything's perfect. It's not amateur, it's really well done.

Kim: By any stretch, I'm going to point out one thing on the webpage Jeff, that maybe people aren't aware of. There's a link on there where you can enter your contact information if you have honey for sale, where you are, how to get a hold of you when to get a hold of you. If you live in wherever Ohio and you can't find somebody to buy honey from, go to the Honey Board webpage. If you live in wherever all over Ohio and can't sell any honey, it's time to get your information up on that webpage so people can find you. It's a great resource.

[music]

Jeff: That about wraps it up for this episode. Before we go, I want to encourage our listeners to rate us five stars on Apple Podcast or wherever you download and stream the show. Even better, write a review and let other beekeepers looking for a new podcast know what you like. You can get there directly from our website by clicking on the reviews along the top of any webpage.

We want to thank our regular episode sponsors Global Patties, Strong Microbials, and especially Betterbee for their longtime support of this podcast. Thanks to Northern Bee Books for their generous support. Finally, and most importantly, we want to thank you, the Beekeeping Today Podcast listener for joining us on this show. Feel free to leave us questions or comments at, leave a comment section under each episode on the website. We'd love to hear from you. Thanks a lot, everybody.

[00:54:09] [END OF AUDIO]