How Carrington Smith Recovered From a Laser Treatment Gone Horribly Wrong

Eva Sheie (00:00): How would you know if your laser treatment was going wrong while it's in progress? Almost nobody would. That's what happened to Carrington Smith. This is the first in a mini series about laser treatments. I'm Eva Sheie, and this is Before and After Stories.

Eva Sheie (00:19): Carrington Smith is a single mom, attorney, business owner, and executive search professional. Along with an IPL photofacial at a medical spa that went terribly wrong, she has also survived sexual assault, two divorces, piles of debt, abuse, religious mind games, the death of loved ones and the loss of as friends. These are the events she writes about in her new book, Blooming. Jenny Burnley is a licensed medical esthetician and a certified laser specialist with over 24 years of experience. She's a clinical trainer for a number of well known laser and aesthetic companies, including Sciton, and she's the one who healed Carrie's face.

Eva Sheie (01:08): Hey everyone, this is Before and After Stories. I know it's been a minute. We've been over on our other show, Breast Cancer Stories, walking through the story of Kristen, who has had breast cancer for the last year. I'll just briefly say, check that show out if you haven't heard it yet, if you're going through breast cancer or more importantly, if you know someone who is. We've heard from our listeners over and over, that they're so grateful for the work we're doing because they did not know what their loved one was going through. That's my commercial for my other podcast that is also about patient journeys. We're here today to talk to two very special people. This episode came to us by a very unusual path. I'll tell that story in a minute, but first I want to introduce my two beautiful guests, who are Carrie Smith and Jenny Burnley.

Jenny Burnley (01:58): Hi.

Carrie Smith (01:59): Hi.

Jenny Burnley (02:00): How is everybody?

Eva Sheie (02:01): Yay.

Carrie Smith (02:03): Nice to see you, Eva.

Eva Sheie (02:05): Good to see you both too. Okay, Carrie, will you just briefly introduce yourself?

Carrie Smith (02:10): Sure. I am a recovering trial lawyer. I don't practice law anymore. I'm one of the smart ones, I get out of the business. I have an executive search business now and I also recently wrote a book, so I'm a published author. Part of what I wrote about in my book, is the story of me being badly burned by some lasers and that's, I think, what we're going to be talking about here today.

Eva Sheie (02:41): Mm-hmm (affirmative). Definitely. Then our other guest, Jenny Burnley, knows a little bit about lasers, Jenny?

Carrie Smith (02:47): Just a tad.

Eva Sheie (02:48): Yeah. Right? What is your background Jenny?

Jenny Burnley (02:52): I've been doing lasers for 24 years now. I feel like I'm a dinosaur in this industry. Originally started out with a lot of FDA research with companies that are trying to get their way into the industry, whether they are able to do what they think or say that their company does. That's kind of where my journey started. I ended up here in Austin, a little over seven years ago.

Carrie Smith (03:24): Now actually trains other people on devices.

Jenny Burnley (03:28): Yes. I've been training actually nationally for, I would say probably 15 years of the 24 at least.

Carrie Smith (03:39): Is the most humble person on the planet.

Eva Sheie (03:43): She's really good at keeping secrets too. I've noticed that she just is like, if you need to tell somebody something, she will keep it to herself.

Carrie Smith (03:50): Yeah.

Eva Sheie (03:51): Ninja skills.

Jenny Burnley (03:52): Well, you've come to find out how small this world can get.

Eva Sheie (03:56): Yeah.

Jenny Burnley (03:58): Prime example.

Eva Sheie (04:00): Okay. Carrie, your book Blooming just came out. The reason I was sent the book is because you were hurt by a laser treatment and your team was probably looking for people who were interested in those kinds of topics. When I got the book, I started reading it. I could not put it down. I discovered that the laser treatment actually, I kept waiting, where's the lasers?

Jenny Burnley (04:22): For it to happen?

Eva Sheie (04:23): Where's the laser treatment? I kept going and going and going. Then I was kind of like, "This is horrible. These things are terrible that have happened to her." To be honest, by the time I got to the laser treatment, I was sort of like, "Well, compared to some of these other things, this laser treatment was not such a big deal," but then I saw the pictures and I understand that it was awful. Just generally speaking, I'm motivated and have been for my entire career, to protect people from making bad decisions about aesthetic providers. That's the whole point of this podcast, Before and After Stories, is to get those stories out there so that people understand what it's really like.

Eva Sheie (05:04): The weird part is when I got to the end of your book in the acknowledgements, you're thanking all these people and there, right in the middle of it, is Jenny's name. I went, "No way," and I picked up my phone and I texted her. I said, "I see what you did here." I did not know. Jenny's been doing my laser treatments for years, but I didn't have a clue that she was the one who helped you recover from that bad situation.

Carrie Smith (05:34): Yeah.

Eva Sheie (05:34): That is why we're all here together. Hopefully your story can help someone else make a great decision.

Carrie Smith (05:40): Yes. Actually, I was talking to my assistant before this and she said, "With the new year, all these Groupons are going on with these meds spas." She's like, "How do I know if I should use one of these?" I'm like, "I know what I'm talking about on this podcast today." And, you know, I actually wrote an article about things to consider when you go to a med spa. That's what happened with me. I mean, I started my first IPL photofacial, I had done at a board certified dermatologist office. It was very mild. I had basically very little reaction because he did it properly.

Eva Sheie (06:21): Probably not huge results, like not noticeable?

Carrie Smith (06:24): Right? Yeah. It was the first time. He went really low key. Just, I'm a very fair person, so he is being very careful. I had a group of friends that, like many of us women do, they have a lot of cosmetic procedures done. They're like, "There's this med spa that we all go to. It's $750 at your dermatologist, but it's $250 over here at this med spa." They all went there, and these are like CEOs wives, so I'm thinking these are women who are well educated on this kind of stuff. And so, for the first time in my life, and I'm a doctor's daughter so I normally would only go to someone who was board certified because I'm a bit of a medical snob, but I was persuaded by my group of friends that I should go to this med spa, because it was so much less expensive and it was great results.

Carrie Smith (07:17): I ended up with second and third degree burns over my face, neck, decollete, and shoulders, and permanently disfigured. There are so many things that went wrong in this situation and I'll just go through really quickly some highlights some things for you guys. The first was, they didn't have a medical director.

Eva Sheie (07:41): Is that legal in Texas, Jenny?

Carrie Smith (07:44): No.

Eva Sheie (07:45): Oh Carrie, you're a lawyer. I can ask you legal questions.

Carrie Smith (07:49): Yeah. Well, in order to be a med spa, you have to have a medical director. What happens is most medical directors are MDs that are paid on a contract basis to oversee these med spas. The medical director they had to open the med spa was a very senior doctor, and oftentimes they are, and he retired and they didn't replace him.

Eva Sheie (08:11): Oh, so they were sort of cheating?

Carrie Smith (08:14): Yes. There were no standing orders. There were no instructions for aftercare. There was no going through, "What medications are you taking? Are you maybe more sensitive to light because of those medications? Are there any medical reasons why you shouldn't have this done? Have you been in the sun recently?" This was August when I had it done. It was the end of the summer. So, it was like the worst time ever for you to get a laser procedure because my skin was darker than it normally was. I'd been using self tanner the entire summer. Big red flags. Then the person who actually performed the service, had maybe 40 hours of training.

Eva Sheie (08:56): Oh no.

Carrie Smith (08:57): Yes. They didn't figure out my Fitzpatrick's score before. I actually didn't even sign a consent form. I was like, "How many things can go wrong in this one situation?" The device that they used, oftentimes med spas, the reason it's cheaper is because they'll use an older laser that's a used laser, and they fail to properly maintain or calibrate it, which was what happened in my case. The device actually sparked on my shoulder and that's where one of the biggest, Jenny you know that spot, there's a big white spot there. It's from when it sparked. All of these things happened. So, I really want to arm people with knowledge to ask these questions about training, about a medical director, do you know your Fitzpatrick's score? What is the aftercare? Did I sign a consent form? All of these things so if you do go to a place, and then of course the equipment, which Jenny and I'll get to in a minute, is also paramount, but just basic knowledge for people. Don't just dive in and think it's an okay thing because everybody else is doing it. I mean, it destroyed my life.

Eva Sheie (10:03): So because they didn't have a medical director, does that mean there was no one to hold responsible either? Usually the medical director is a person who's putting their license on the line in this situation and that's why they get paid. They're getting paid to uphold the risk of the people who are-

Carrie Smith (10:20): Yes.

Eva Sheie (10:21): ... treated, right?

Carrie Smith (10:22): Yes. There wasn't anybody. What is really frustrating to me is that in Texas, as you guys know, there's a med mal law that limits your recovery to $250,000, there's a cap. Procedures done at medical spas fall under that law, even though the medical director was not there. There wasn't one. This still was put under that med mal law. I was still put under that $250,000 cap. For me, this goes beyond the aesthetic procedures. That didn't come close to covering the expenses to repair the damage that was done, the lost income, all of that. I think about people who maybe lost a limb or disabled for life, and all they can get is $250,000? Okay, I know that's a separate topic, but we need to change that law.

Eva Sheie (11:17): Yeah.

Jenny Burnley (11:18): Agreed.

Eva Sheie (11:19): Another unintended consequence of something that was supposed to be helpful.

Carrie Smith (11:23): Yeah.

Eva Sheie (11:24): Yeah. 50,000 examples of that.

Carrie Smith (11:26): Yeah.

Eva Sheie (11:28): Were you able to get anything from this medical spa?

Carrie Smith (11:32): I did sue them, being a lawyer, and we did have a recovery there. It's a confidential settlement and I can't name the spa and I can't specify the amount, but there was a settlement.

Eva Sheie (11:47): Let's talk about that bad treatment. You're in there, you're being treated with this laser by this inexperienced person, can you tell that it's not going well? Are you thinking, "I should get up and walk away from this?"

Carrie Smith (12:00): I mean, I'd had the numbing cream put on and I was on the bed. When it sparked on my shoulder, I said, "Is that normal?" I mean, I had the goggles on, but it was this big, bright red light, like sparks. I could see it from the corner of my vision, but yet it's like you're trapped there. It's hard to get up and walk out.

Eva Sheie (12:24): Yeah. I don't know that I would've either. What are you thinking, Jenny?

Carrie Smith (12:29): She would've.

Jenny Burnley (12:29): Yeah, I would have. I've actually got up in the middle of a bad haircut and asked them to stop cutting because I just saw where it was going. Yeah. I mean, my thoughts are, it's one reason why I'm not a big fan of numbing somebody, especially if it's the first time treating you, because there's so many variables that go into the skin and treatments. One of those is your feedback on, how does this feel? If you hadn't been numb and it sparked, you'd probably been like, "You just put a fire poker on me. This is not normal."

Carrie Smith (13:12): Right.

Jenny Burnley (13:12): Unfortunately, because you had some numbing stuff, you weren't able to really feel the intensity that it was delivering.

Carrie Smith (13:21): Right.

Jenny Burnley (13:23): A lot of people will use topical. I do not for certain treatments, and that's one of them I don't.

Eva Sheie (13:30): When she was finished and she said, "We're done," then what? What happened after?

Carrie Smith (13:36): All she said was, "Don't rub it." That was it, out the door I went. I got home and I had two young kids at the time. I was dealing with tension with my ex and expectations that I be certain places and spend time with kids and doing certain tasks, that even though I could tell there was something wrong and it was literally like sawdust. It was like dust. I wasn't rubbing, but I did dust it off because it was like skin, just dust. There were blisters underneath. I don't know why things happened the way they did, but it just got progressively worse. I developed a secondary yeast infection. I actually developed a secondary bacterial infection in my neck, which was really disgusting. I actually called the maintenance man in my building and said, "There's got to be a dead animal or something stuck in the wall because the smell was so bad." He's like, "There's nothing. I can't find anything," and I realized it was my neck.

Eva Sheie (14:43): Oh no.

Carrie Smith (14:45): Yes. It was my neck. I had a, what is it, it was, I think, a staph infection. It smelled like rot.

Eva Sheie (14:53): How many days went by between when you had the treatment, and then when you realized that things had gone so wrong that you needed to go get more medical attention?

Carrie Smith (15:05): Well, goes from bad to worse. I went to actually another doctor for another reason and just showed them a shoulder and said, "What do I do about this?" They're like, "Just put antibiotic cream on it," and didn't recognize it for what it was and how bad it was. And so, it wasn't until I then went to an urgent care. It just gotten so bad I went to an urgent care and that's when they gave me the silvadene cream and told me that I needed to do the, what's the term when you scrub your skin off after a burn?

Jenny Burnley (15:42): Debris?

Carrie Smith (15:43): Yes. I had to do that twice a day, every day. That was traumatic, having to do that to myself.

Eva Sheie (15:52): I'm sure, I remember in the book, this is where I think you got pretty sad and it felt like there was a stretch there where you probably didn't really want to leave the house.

Carrie Smith (16:03): Oh yeah, I didn't. I mean, I literally ordered my groceries in. I ordered food in. I mean I had to take my kids and pick them up and drop them off places, but I would do everything I could to avoid. I mean, I would wear a ball cap. I would just hide out. Particularly after I developed full on that systemic yeast infection and people always go, "Ooh," and I'm like, "Not that kind." Literally I had pink fuzz on my skin and I actually developed this weird rash. It was systemic. I mean, I developed this weird rash on my arm. I had stuff coming out of my belly button and nobody could really figure out what was going on. At this point, they just thought I was crazy because they had put me on antibiotics and steroids after the burns. Those are two things that will get your body to grow yeast like no tomorrow.

Carrie Smith (16:56): I had brain fog, I became catatonic. I mean, hours would go by, I'd go sit on the couch and have my morning coffee and then the boys would come home from school. I was like, "My whole day just went, by what happened?" It wasn't until a friend, we were having a conversation, and I sort of self-diagnosed that this was yeast, started Googling. Then I went back to the doctors and said, "This is what this is. Put me on this drug, Diflucan or something like that.

Jenny Burnley (17:26): Yeah, Diflucan.

Carrie Smith (17:27): Yeah. I went on a very intensive high dose course for about six weeks and that turned everything around. It was dramatic.

Eva Sheie (17:37): I can't believe how long this went on.

Carrie Smith (17:39): I know. Then I met Jenny, and then Jenny saved my life

Eva Sheie (17:44): And happily ever after. I'm sure it was not that easy. How did you find Jenny then?

Carrie Smith (17:51): Jenny, as you know, works at Restora with Dr. Gordon, and Dr. Gordon was my expert for my lawsuit.

Eva Sheie (17:59): Oh.

Carrie Smith (18:00): I saw Jenny because Dr. Gordon defers to Jenny on the laser stuff and asked her opinion on what it would take to figure out a treatment plan for me to put in her report for the lawsuit like, "How much is it going to cost to help repair this?" And so we put together a treatment plan and then we began the treatment plan before the lawsuit settled and started treating. Let me tell you, this girl is a saint. I was so traumatized that she would have to give me Valium or Xanax and I still would wail throughout. She held my hand and helped me through it. I had to learn to trust her. She has that great bedside manner where she just held me through it. I mean, hugged me, held my hand and was very patient with me because I would react, like start screaming. We just developed a special bond. I learned to trust her. I mean, that's why I acknowledged her in the book. I mean, literally without her, I would not be here today. I would not be on this show today.

Eva Sheie (19:10): I suspect there's a lot of things you would not be doing without that. I wonder if you even thought that it was fixable after going through it all.

Carrie Smith (19:18): I didn't. I didn't. I looked like a monster and people are like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah." I'm like, "No, you see the pictures. I looked like a monster." I didn't see a road to being myself again, and she did. That trust, her saying, "I think we can fix this," that was like, "Okay, I'm holding your hand. I'm trusting you," and look at me today. That's why I think it's so important to tell my story, both the bad what happened, but also the hope at the end. That's why I include the pictures in the book because I want people to see how bad it was and look at how I am today. I give the credit to Jenny.

Eva Sheie (20:08): We'll make sure we put those pictures linked in the show notes so anyone who's listening can see them. They're also in the book, of course.

Carrie Smith (20:16): Yeah.

Eva Sheie (20:18): Having been through all of this now, do you find yourself going out of your way to tell other people where to find good providers or what not to do?

Carrie Smith (20:27): Oh yes. Yeah, I really do. In fact, I pretty much point blank say don't go to med spas. But that's my personal opinion. I know there are some that are well supervised and they've got their act together. I mean, just as a general statement, if you can afford to just go to a board certified dermatologist or plastic surgeon's office, I just feel more comfortable. Then again, the truth of the matter is, they're not usually the ones doing the procedures, it's usually the Jennies of this world. So really doing your homework and finding out that you're dealing with somebody who is well trained, has lots of experience and has all these other things where they're using top notch equipment and just have really high standards, standard of care, how they interact with their patients, all of that's really important.

Eva Sheie (21:16): You can also look up any doctor's license and anyone's license. That's not that hard to do if you just Google Texas medical license look up, and check and see if they have anything on their record. Sometimes they do. Where I used to work, we checked everyone's license before we let them even be a customer. There were 1% or 2% that we had to say no to regularly. Then, I mean, you can Google Austin medical spa lawsuit. You can think of the words that you need to Google and you can find lots and lots of articles.

Carrie Smith (21:52): Think about it when it comes to beauty and beauty products and beauty care and procedures. How often do we just go, "Hey, I want what my friend has," and that's what I did. I just merely followed along, trusting that they had done that work. So that's where the flaw is sort of in all of this, is that we have to train ourselves to not be so easily persuaded by whatever everyone else is doing and say, "Wait, let me do my own homework. Also, is this right for me because my skin is different than their skin. I have a different medical history and I'm taking different medications."

Eva Sheie (22:31): More of a trust, but verify system.

Carrie Smith (22:33): Yes.

Eva Sheie (22:33): Yeah.

Jenny Burnley (22:34): I will add this as well, that there are a lot of board certified physicians in this industry who hire, not necessarily quality people, to run their lasers. I think when people see, "Oh, I'm going to X doctor, then whoever they have working for them is well trained, well knowledgeable." I can't tell you how many times these people have had a weekend course and they're running their lasers, but because they work for a physician, people automatically think that they're well qualified and that-

Carrie Smith (23:18): Is not the case, yeah.

Jenny Burnley (23:19): ... It's not the case. I mean, technically if I wanted to pull someone off the front desk and train them how to do it, you'd come in, you wouldn't know any different, and they would be the ones doing your laser. The amount of times that people come in and say, "Oh, my friend had this. I want that." Without really A, going through with, "Tell me why you want this, tell me what your biggest complaints are." So many times you find this is not the right treatment for you for one reason or another. Having somebody that is willing to advise you differently after doing a thorough consultation on, "what are your goals?" And then going a step further, "When was the last time you used spray tan? When was the last time you used a self tanner? When is the last time?" It's not just black and white, you walk in and it's done. There are so many things that play an important part into getting a successful treatment and a happy patient.

Eva Sheie (24:23): Jenny, is it reasonable to ask somebody how many times have you done this treatment, or how many years have you been doing this treatment?

Jenny Burnley (24:33): I think that's absolutely reasonable. I work for a plastic surgery office and you have many people go, "How many times have they done this surgery?" Why not, why not ask somebody, "How many times have you done this treatment?" If they're like, "Under 50 times," then maybe reconsider. Now, everyone has a starting point, certain treatments. I just got this new device and I'm about six people in. If you were to say, "Well, you're not qualified to work on people yet," If you're looking for somebody that's upward of a hundred treatments or whatever that number is to you. I also have the training so me doing it six times, is basically I'm teaching the trainers at this point. I'm like, "I already got this. I don't even need to show up." I think that there is some wiggle room, but if you're looking at black and white, then yes, I think you should be asking.

Carrie Smith (25:33): I think a good example or comparison would be when you go to a plastic surgeon, there are plastic surgeons that just do faces or just do noses. If you went to them and said, "I want liposuction or I want a Brazilian butt lift," to the nose guy, that's not going to work, right? There is some real validity to saying, "Okay, how many of these types of procedures have you done? What are you familiar with? Which lasers have you used?" All of that, yeah, absolutely.

Eva Sheie (26:01): It's not an abnormal question to ask.

Carrie Smith (26:03): No.

Eva Sheie (26:04): Didn't you have to have a rhinoplasty along with your recovery?

Carrie Smith (26:08): I did. Yeah. If you saw the picture of my nose, like took a left turn. It was so full of scar tissue, it actually twisted. You could see how the nostrils had shifted. I mean, I still have a good deal of scar tissue and I have some permanent scarring that we're still, we've come a long way on. I have still some of the white spots on my chest and shoulders, we've come so far. I mean, look at me. Like I said, I'm out in the world now, but yes, I also do think the doctor who fixed my nose, so Dr. Antunes, oh, shout out for him.

Jenny Burnley (26:47): He's a wonderful physician.

Carrie Smith (26:49): He is.

Jenny Burnley (26:50): Yes.

Eva Sheie (26:51): He specializes, doesn't he, in face and nose? Yeah.

Carrie Smith (26:54): Yep.

Eva Sheie (26:55): Let's talk about the book. I loved it. I'm not saying that because you're sitting in front of me. I really was not expecting it to be such a page turner. I couldn't put it down, actually. I can't say enough good things about it. I lived in Washington for a long time and I could picture you driving over the past as if I was driving it myself and I have nightmares still to this day about those white knuckle trips over the pass. So for me, it was actually pretty visceral to read that part and just imagine you at that age.

Carrie Smith (27:30): It was a five speed. I didn't put that in the book, but it was a stick shift.

Jenny Burnley (27:36): Yeah.

Eva Sheie (27:38): Oh my goodness. I'm not going to spoil it for anyone who wants to read it, but it was one of the most vivid stories at least for me, it was anyway, as a former Seattleite myself. How would you describe the book for the audience that we have, which is people who are cosmetic procedure minded?

Carrie Smith (27:56): If you would indulge me.

Eva Sheie (27:58): Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Carrie Smith (27:59): Somebody just posted a review that I want to read part of, because it literally gave me the chills. I think it is sort of an important reason to read the book. She said, "Carrington lived an outwardly charmed life, the perfect husband, the perfect house, two beautiful children, an amazing career and the right, quote unquote, friends. But underneath the veneer, Carrington concealed mind numbing pain caused by a lifetime of emotional and sometimes physical abuse. In Blooming, Carrington takes a blow torch to the facade of her own life and stands naked and bare in the ashes," a metaphor for being burned right?

Jenny Burnley (28:44): Yeah.

Carrie Smith (28:45): Then she says, "Blooming isn't an age old tale of triumph over tragedy. It is a tale about the freedom that comes when we jettison shame and refuse to live our lives, as a reflection in someone else's eyes. It is impossible not to connect with Carrington and her story. We all have a story, Blooming gives us permission to tell it."

Eva Sheie (29:09): I'm freezing right now.

Carrie Smith (29:12): Literally I was like, "That is why I wrote the book. Right there, that's why I wrote it." I hope that people will throw away their shame and quit pretending they've got a perfect life and just say sometimes things suck. This hurts. By being authentic and being vulnerable, we help other people. We also get deeper friendships because people can see who we really are. People can't find you if you're not really being who you really are, you're attracting the wrong people. So that just, I can't say any better than that.

Eva Sheie (29:53): Was that an Amazon review or where did you find?

Carrie Smith (29:56): Yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Eva Sheie (29:58): Obviously we can find the book on Amazon. Where's the best place to follow you on social media?

Carrie Smith (30:04): On Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, it's @CarringtonATX and on LinkedIn, it's Carrington Smith Trabue, I'm being a big LinkedIn person. Then of course I have my author website, which is, Carrington-smith.com, the book's title.

Eva Sheie (30:25): I know you said Blooming, it's a deceptive title in the sense that it sounds so soft and beautiful.

Carrie Smith (30:34): And then the punchline, right? It's Blooming: Finding Gifts in the Shit of Life. I use that word because it's a double entendre. We talk about things that are shitty, but it's in the messes, the failures, the difficulties of life, that we find what we need to bloom into our greatness.

Eva Sheie (30:55): Where do we find you Jenny?

Jenny Burnley (30:57): You find me at Restora Austin Plastic Surgery in Austin, Texas.

Eva Sheie (31:03): What about on Instagram?

Jenny Burnley (31:05): Instagram, you can find me @restoredbyJenny or needlesandlasers.

Eva Sheie (31:13): Cute names.

Jenny Burnley (31:15): Yeah. I had nothing to do with any of them. That's as far as my creativity goes, is in the laser room.

Carrie Smith (31:24): Well, I guess one more thing I wanted to say is that Jenny has, I mean, not just been successful with transforming me, but some of the most difficult deforming, or things that hurt your self-esteem issues with their skin, she's been able to work with people and absolutely change their lives. You should definitely go visit her Instagram and check out those pictures because some of those stories are just earth shattering. It's amazing what somebody who's gifted and talented at this can do, versus the opposite on the bad when it first happened.

Jenny Burnley (31:58): Well thank you for saying that. I take everything I do and put myself in the other person's shoes and how would I want to be treated. I feel like I don't stop at, "No," I don't stop with, "Good." It's like, "Let's see how far we could push this." I think that's why I do what I do, is to watch people come to the other side and love themselves.

Carrie Smith (32:28): Yeah.

Jenny Burnley (32:28): We all could love ourselves, whether we look one way or don't, but sometimes we all have little hiccups along the way that, there's any little bit that I can do to help them, it's a true privilege.

Eva Sheie (32:42): Thank you both. Thanks for listening to Before and After Stories today. If you want to tell your story on Before and After Stories, I would love to hear from you and you could find me on Twitter at Axis, A-X-I-S podcast. Thanks. See you guys again soon, I hope.

Jenny Burnley (32:59): Yes.

Carrie Smith (32:59): Yeah.

Jenny Burnley (33:00): I hope so, yes. Go buy her book. It's wonderful. It is a page turner.

Eva Sheie (33:05): I will link her book in the show notes too.

Carrie Smith (33:07): Awesome.

Eva Sheie (33:11): To help us better understand how to protect ourselves from being hurt and getting the best results we possibly can, I've asked Jenny to come back and talk to us again about laser treatments. She's also introduced me to a few more of her past patients whose lives have been completely changed by her work with lasers. So to arm ourselves with the knowledge we need in this area, there is nobody better than Jenny to learn from. Follow us wherever you're listening to be notified when these episodes go live. And don't forget to write a review, we'd love to hear from you. Of course, find the show on Instagram @beforeandafterstoriespodcast.

Eva Sheie (33:47): Before and After Stories is a production of The Axis, theaxis.io.