Building Systems of Care with Heather O'Neill

None of us could survive being in business alone. So how do you build systems that can help support and care for you and your business? Where do you find that community that will pick you up when you're in the dip or celebrate with you when you close a big new client? Hey there, I'm Susan Boles, and this is Beyond Margins. The show where we deconstruct how to engineer a calmer business.

We're in the middle of a mini series where we're exploring the common elements of a calm business. So, what makes a calm business actually calm? How do you engineer that into your business? Well, there are 8 elements that all calm companies have in common. Clarity, autonomy, a lens of care, margins, efficient systems, rest, and reduced urgency.

Now, we've talked about clarity and autonomy in previous episodes, so if you haven't already listened to those, I highly recommend you go back and check them out. Today, we're talking about operating through a lens of care. What do I mean by care? Well, the definition I like best is that care is providing what is needed for the well-being or protection of a person or thing. So when we run our businesses through a lens of care, we provide for and prioritize the well-being of the people involved in our business.

So that might be you, your team, your clients, or even the community around you. When you lead with care, building something calmer, it almost takes care of itself, because no one's well-being is enhanced by panic, by urgency, or chaos. My guest today is Heather O'Neil. She's an anti capitalist business coach for tech and service businesses, And she's the founder of a UX consultancy called Pixels For Human. Heather is someone who really walks the walk here.

She puts people over profits and really believes that you can make money while still doing good. So under the heading of taking care of people, or I think really even just giving a crap about the people in or around your business is not normally the default when it comes to business and what we're kind of taught and ingrained that business should actually be. There's this phrase, it's not personal it's business. That is, you know, the go to catchphrase of all business owners everywhere. And I personally hate it, but where do you think it comes from?

And how is that mentality kind of hurting us both as business owners and just as human beings existing in the world?

Yeah. It's such an interesting phrase because I think there's moments when it can be helpful, like when you're seeing someone's behavior at you and then taking it as a personal referendum. But most of the time, the way it's wielded is as a explanation for exploitation. Right? When people say, oh, it's not personal.

It's just business. They're usually justifying their choices to cause harm, to exploit, or to treat people like trash without consequence, as if business makes it okay to be an asshole.

Well, and I think that's the culture that we have been brought up to believe that if it's business, you can get away with all manner of horrible, exploitative actions. So I love that you brought that in because I think that really hits the point of the harm that comes from business. I don't think it has to be that way, but I do think it's portrayed that way a lot.

Yeah. And I think it fits in with the larger society of individualism that has grown up as a very popular, like way of existing. Right? We don't live in communities anymore. We live in our own houses and our own spaces and with this belief that we don't owe anybody anything.

And on the surface, that's technically true, but also we are humans, and we do owe each other, like, support and care and existence just by the nature of we're all in this together and without each other, we actually, none of us could survive.

I agree with that. As I was getting ready for this conversation, I'm on TikTok and, we're getting ready for school to start. And there's this whole discussion about communal school supplies and apparently a whole segment of the population that really are offended by the idea of kids sharing school supplies and saw somebody post a comment about, if I spring for Crayola, I don't want my kid to have to use rose art crowns for an afternoon. And I thought that just kind of really exemplified the individualistic mentality that we have that I think is ultimately does do a lot of harm to us as a culture, but particularly in the business space where we are deeply ingrained to be competitive, to be anti community in a lot of sense.

Yeah. That also comes back to, like, beliefs about who owns what and what power people have and how power looks. Because a lot of times, this is about power over or power above rather than power with. And I think that shapes a lot of our our systems and our thinking when it comes to things like school supplies and who's better than who. And I have sprung for the Crayola crayons so my kid can feel special or I'm filling some personal need, or I just think I'm better than you.

Right? Because I have power over you. And if we're all sharing, I lose that and I feel like I've lost something. And in business, that's always the case. There's so much of the business dynamic that is around who has more power in the deal, who has more authority, who who's the important one.

Right? And when you frame it as that, and you failed to see it as anything other than like, I have to get mine often at the expense of you or else. Then you can't build meaningful relationships, which is ironic because if you talk to anyone, they will always have a story of like somebody going out on a limb for them. Somebody doing a favor above and beyond, but they never make the connection from that to, and I should pay it forward or that community is what brought me here.

That's a really key part. And I think it's so important to recognize the community that we're all kind of de facto a part of whether we believe we are or not, but this aspect of paying it forward or being in community with people that are already in community with you, it's a really interesting thread that I would love to pull

a little bit more. It's something where people treat it like a given or take it for granted that they should get something, they should get an exception. Because with within ourselves, the the way humans work. Right? Like, we see ourselves as always the exception or can understand why we might do things that otherwise on the surface might look terrible.

But when we judge other people's activities, we judge them based on the rule. Like, oh, that person's stealing bread because they're a bad person. But when I stole bread, it's because I was really hungry and starving. Or that person is doing that business tactic because they're bad, but I'm doing it because I don't have any other way to survive. And so we can always find excuses for ourselves, but we rarely extend that to the other people doing it.

And that comes through with exceptions as well. Like, oh, I got this opportunity and this person went out on a limb for me because I'm worth going out on a limb for, but I can't do that for someone else because maybe they'll take advantage of me or I don't want to give up what I have.

The, if I take care of somebody else that's less for me is such a deeply ingrained piece of business that I think often it just happens by default, but it is like a foundational piece of so many different business practices and things that were taught are supposed to be like when you're negotiating a deal with somebody, you have to keep the power, you have to control the environment and make sure you're sitting higher than they are.

One of my family members just bought a car and they went into a dealership and they got promised all these things, and none of that came through in the paperwork. I looked over the paperwork afterwards, and I was like, hey. They didn't do the things they said, and they had to actually go back to the dealership because it was this whole power trip of how the car dealership wanted to make money at any cost. Those are the things that make people hate business and hate sales. But most of the people I talk to, you don't actually hate sales.

You hate sales as it is presented as the default. Right? You hate business as is presented as the default because it assumes and requires you to care about yourself at the expense of other people. Very few people sit in that space naturally. Like, you look at kids, they care about each other.

Right? Like, as humans, we are wired to care about each other because that's how we have survived historically. And when it comes to business, we say, f all that right out the window. Right? I think there's a lot of space for us to reconsider, like, can we choose to believe that there's something different?

Like, I am a consultant. I am a business coach. I work in user experience. And I actually believe, like, there's enough room for every one of us who wants to be in this space with me. I'm not worried that someone is gonna take business from me because they can't.

I can't serve all the possible people who could want my services, number 1. And number 2, like, if there's none for me left, cool. I will go do something else. This is not the only thing I could do with my life. And what I actually want for all of us is a society where we have the space and the care for each other so that we don't have to hustle culture.

We don't have to do it all alone. We don't feel like we are shoved into these corners. I met someone recently who they have every side hustle I think you could ever have. They DoorDash, they TaskRabbit. I think they also work as, like, a barista somewhere just to support themselves and their family.

And that should not be the, like, default of how we operate. And we should not constantly be looking to, like, minimize our costs at the sake of, like, other people's lives.

Our culture today, and particularly like millennials and younger, you know, there's been so few opportunities because so much of it has just been sucked up into the corporate structure of businesses that you almost have to, it feels like have multiple things or multiple side hustles or always be working. Or if you have a hobby, turn it into a business. Oh, you knit, sell your creations on Etsy. And I think it does such a disservice to us as human beings to take our interests and monetize them, but also to just have the kind of environment where people can't just do their work and be able to survive comfortably and have a living wage. It's just ridiculous.

When you recognize that, yes, we live in society and these soulful constructs are in place, but they are also as impermanent as anything else. We can change them if we want to. No, I can't go tomorrow and change all the legislation that controls how businesses work. But I can start by changing how I run my business. And I think that's the thing that people miss is that when they say, oh, I don't have systemic organizational power to change the whole system.

They go, I can't do anything. And that's that's where I think a lot of the confusion comes in. You don't actually have to follow the business rules because they're just as made up as everything else. And so in my business, I don't follow the business rules in the same way.

We are going to take a really quick break to hear from our sponsors. And then when we come back, Heather and I will get into her rules and practices that help her build systems of care into her business. You are an anti capitalist business coach. You operate your business in a way that is as close to anti capitalist as you can within the context of living in a capitalist society. So what are some of the ways that you have built kind of care and community into your own business practices?

I think one of the big ways that I do that is I build relationships for the sake of their own existence. I have a lot of people that I stay connected to in the business world, And

it would

be really cool if that led to some sales or some cash for me. And also, if it never does, I still wanna maintain those relationships because I still care about those people. There's a big boom of layoffs right now, so there's a big lot of people networking and their networking involved showing up in your DMs and going,

hey, can you meet with me?

Because I like to get all these questions answered. Or, hey, I wanna apply for this job. Can you give me a referral with no other context? There's no relationship there. And while you can't go back in time and like, be like, oops, I meant to build a relationship.

Showing that you care outside of what someone can do for you is the first step. So that's one of the things that I make a huge priority in my business is to intentionally build relationships with people who I may or may not end up doing business with, or who may or may not end up referring business to me because I want to have relationships with that. Another thing I do is I make it a practice to put my money where my mouth is, if you will. So most of the time, the best impact you can make financially is direct giving. That has the least tax benefit for you.

It's not always easy for people to be like, oh, I wanna do that because you still get charged for, like, the taxes on the revenue. But it is the best thing you do. And so when I look at building community, I say, how can my business and the revenue that I bring in be dispersed out to the local community, be dispersed out to the Internet community that I'm a part of, even if I don't get a tax break for it. And then building relationships within that too. Like the people that you are giving money to are, is it just, I gave money and now I'm done or are you willing to connect with those communities?

So it's always coming back to like your relationship to things. Which I think is the hardest thing for people because it's vulnerable and it requires you to get messy with other humans. And in business, nobody wants to be messy because at the end of the day, we're all here for a transaction. And to a certain extent, that is true. But I also think there's room to care.

The last thing, and this one's gonna sound wild at first, but I I will explain it to make sense, is I have contracts. And the reason that I think contracts are one of the best ways to say that I care is I set up my contracts with the intention that whatever I've promised you in our business relationship, I will hold to even if I become an asshole tomorrow. You can hold me to my word and you don't just have to trust me. I think a lot of people think that if you care about someone, you don't have a contract because you just trust me. But no, the contract is the biggest indicator of trust because it says that even if we have a big old fight and we're not friends anymore, I'm still gonna do the thing for you that I said I'm gonna do for you.

I love that because I am a big proponent of honestly solid business processes being a caretaking step. Right? So if you are communicating clearly how your process works, That is a very solid way to show care and respect to your clients, because you are saying, here's how this things works. You don't have to have any questions about it. You don't have to worry that I'm not going to show up on a specific time at a specific deadline, even to the point where like automations can be a point of care.

And that's the most operations geeky I ever get. You know, when somebody comes on, on board as a client and they automatically get a thoughtful welcome email, that's written, not like you're a robot, but like you're a person and you can do both being a person and automating things. They do feel cared for. And so I think I love the, be for you. The contract is one of those things, because I think it is an underrated part of the kind of care centric culture you can build in your business, where those are parts where we would normally like traditionally think, oh, those are like the businessy part of things, but doing those parts of business well and with a eye towards taking care of your client or taking care of your team even, they can be a really powerful way to build care, to build community into your own business in a way that, you know, isn't necessarily indirect conflict to any normal business process.

Nobody should have to just trust and hope for the best. And I think the people who experienced this the most are the ones who people act like they're doing you a favor by helping you, especially for people who are from marginalized backgrounds or have experienced marginalization through society or through other avenues. They're treated like everybody is doing them a favor by, like, not marginalizing them frequently, or, like, they're an afterthought. And this happens to me as well. Like, being a woman, being autistic, being bisexual, like, all those things mean that, like, people can treat you and systems can treat you like, I guess if we have to, we will do this for you out of the benevolent kindness of our heart.

And that's actually not hair. I work with most people on a contract and project basis, so I don't have any full time team members except for my spouse, but that's, again, different. One of the things that I changed is I bill upfront to my clients. And so now I will intentionally set up my contracts with my team members so they also get paid something upfront. Like, you shouldn't have to wait.

Most companies and larger ones are always the worst because they have power. They will say net 30, but you can't bill until arrears to the next month. So, like, you're waiting 60 days from when you start work to when you get your first payment. And that is unconscionable to me. Like, that that should not happen.

And I think the other thing that people don't realize is they can negotiate contracts, especially when it's a big organization. The big organization might say, oh, no, we never do that. And that's their prerogative, but that is also a lie. There's no organization in the world that has not once ever negotiated the terms of their contract. They may not negotiate it with you because they think you're small potatoes and they can find another you and that you're replaceable.

But 9 times out of 10, they will likely work with you. And it's okay to take the time to do that and to get what you need.

Yeah. I completely agree. I side off as the CFO there. It's a conversation I have with my clients all the time that, I tend to lean towards contract and payment systems that require your clients to enter payment details at the beginning so that you can bill them automatically. Because it won, it dramatically increases the cashflow and predictability for the business owner, but also for the client as well.

And I get so much pushback from people that work with big clients that say, oh, my, my clients will never do this. They're too big. I have to use their system. And almost always when you push back or just say, Hey, this is the way that we really prefer to work. Can you work within our constraints?

Half the time they don't even question you send them the contract. They just enter the payment details and you never even have to have the discussion. But I would always encourage folks to push back because I've had companies that work with health insurance companies, that the health insurance companies will follow this process. And they are some of the worst, most bureaucratic. And so if a health insurance company can do it, there's a pretty good chance.

You can get your big company in whatever industry to do it too. You just have to ask.

And if you ask for something and the answer is not just no, but and now we're gonna cut your contract, it will feel bad because that revenue loss sucks. But also, you were gonna have so much of a worse time with them as a client than the revenue would ever likely be worse. And I know that when when you are strapped for cash and you're feeling like I've got all these bills and there's no one to support me, like, that can feel terrifying and, like, no. I understand. If you choose not to negotiate or not to ask because of those things, like, please don't take this as a referendum on you because it's not.

It's the systems and the people who have the power and choose to wield it. Business decisions are rarely human decisions. And even if the company has stated

that they are making human first decisions, it's rare that that's the case. I think you hit on a really interesting point that, you know, there are a lot of companies out there that will advertise that they're human first, advertise that they're a team, advertise that you're a family.

No, that what's a lie.

Oh, it's always a lie. But when the shit hits the fan, they always prioritize the profit. They always prioritize the economics of it. They never prioritize the people. And I think one of the real challenges of building a calmer company of building a company that does in fact, try to make the system better from within, or at least try to use their business as a tool for good.

I think one of the key points there is if you're going to try and use your company as a tool for good, you have to prioritize the people within the company, even when that's not the easiest choice, because there are a lot of times it won't be the easiest choice or it won't be the most profitable choice. And I think the hallmark of a company that is truly equitable and does truly demonstrate care is that they do prioritize the people over anything else even when it's hard.

Yeah. And I agree with that. I think it's easy to say you prioritize people when you have lots of cash or funding or things are going well. But when things are not going well, when the cash isn't there, when the money is tight, what does it look like? How do you prioritize or not prioritize people?

And what does that mean? Like, what are you willing to give up or sacrifice? And one of the things that I think about a lot is this concept of, like, worker owned companies. And I think we're moving more to that model. And I think if you are looking at having a business or looking at having employees, how do you move to an employee owned model so everybody has an equal stake?

Yes. You get less profit, but also you would have less risk and you have more commitment because everybody has a stake. And I think that is a thoughtful way to show that you care if you wanna look at building your business and scaling it, building it as a co op or an employee owned or some sort of model that passes along any business success to everyone who made that business success possible.

Yeah. I've been having more and more conversations with business owners about what that might look like for them or how to make the transition or using that honestly, as an exit plan, you know, if you're thinking about retiring or moving on, basically selling the company to the workers is a really cool exit strategy.

Yeah. And a really smart one because who knows the business better, really.

So talk up to me a little bit about how the care kind of practices or care centric practices that you've built in your own business, whether that is care for yourself and, the workers or care for clients, how has that helped your business feel a little bit calmer?

One of the things that I instituted, several years back now is we are a 4 day work week company. And I tell my clients this so they know upfront. It's actually in my contracts that says, like, we're only available Monday to Thursday. If we work on the weekends, we're probably gonna charge you extra. It is in practice more flexible than that, but I always have the ability to be like, hey.

We're not available on Friday. Let's get to it Monday. And one of the ways that I think having a business that cares can make a calmer business is releasing a sense of urgency that comes from white supremacy. So white supremacy says that everything has to happen now. It's urgent.

It's a rush. And if we don't get it out now, we will all die. And unless you work in a medical profession where your job is to, like, heal somebody's body as it's, like, on a table dying, that's just not true. Most of the people I work with and most of the stuff that I work on is not urgent. Everything absolutely can wait, and it will be fine.

And honestly, it might even be better. Having a 4 day work week forces me to force my clients to reckon with how urgent things actually are or in most cases are not. And so that creates a calmer business because I've been a business owner for 16 years. So I've been doing this a long time, and it is easy to get swept up in somebody else's energy and somebody else's urgency for things. However, I have found that as I say, no, I can't do that on a Friday.

Everybody can adjust and nobody dies. Like, I've never been fired for having a 4 day work week company by anyone. It's never even come up as a complaint. And actually people have apologized. Oh, Heather.

I'm sorry. I sent this to you on a Friday. I know you're not working. When you practice care for yourself, for your workers, because I don't require any of my employees to work on a Friday and they don't pay anybody any less. And so when you when you show up in that way and you say, these are the boundaries that I'm not gonna cross for me, for my team, people will meet you there.

You just have to tell them what it is. And I think a lot of times we're afraid that if we have a boundary, we'll lose the whole deal and our whole lives will fall apart. It is rarely true. I have have a boundary of also clients have to pay me something upfront to reserve my time because don't have time to be chasing invoices when I've gotten nothing from you and done a ton of the work. I've only had twice where that's been a problem, and I just didn't work with them, and I moved on.

My experience was very similar to yours. I went to a 4 day work week, I don't know a year ago about the time where I was like, this isn't sustainable. And the way that I approach work is no longer sustainable, coincided with me realizing I was autistic as well. All of a sudden they're like, Hey, I can't work as much as I thought I could. I actually do need to build in real time every week for actual rest, because I just cannot, it's not sustainable for me to work that much.

And at first I felt really uncomfortable because all of the things that we've been taught, but, you know, if I tell people I don't work on Friday, they're going to freak out. They're not going to want to work with me. And none of that ended up being true. And like you clients where that was an issue when we were negotiating the contract, we just didn't work together because they weren't a good fit. And the end result has been, I work with amazing clients that I absolutely love.

They're fantastic, amazing human beings, and nobody ever has a problem with it.

When you're a business owner, especially, one of the best muscles of care you can build for yourself is to learn that nos are not the end of the world. Right? When somebody says no to you, it's not your last chance. You get another chance. And this is where that phrase, it's just business, it's not personal, actually becomes helpful.

This is the only time it's helpful. Because when somebody tells you no, I don't wanna work with you, especially if you're a solopreneur, a consultant, or a freelancer, and you're in this business sort of by yourself, it feels like a personal referendum on you as a human. And that is not the case. This is a business decision that they are making that you are not the right fit for, but it does not mean that you suck or are bad or your business is bad. And so if you can build your muscle and your tolerance to hear no, you'll actually get a lot more yeses.

And I know that sounds silly, but you set yourself up for not wallowing. How many times have we gotten a no? And then we're like,

what the point is ending and I have no leads and everything's terrible. Anybody listening, please probably think that, like,

it just goes away. It doesn't, but you get better at it and you bounce back faster. When you can build that muscle and that skill, you can care for yourself more because you can trust yourself. That when you say no to a client, you will be able to find the revenue you need some other way. The money that you need to survive some other way.

It's scarcity and this fear of not having enough that keeps us saying yes to clients and capitulating our own beliefs. And so the more you can build that muscle, the more you can build your own practice of care.

I absolutely second that and would kind of bring it back to community. Because for me, the network that I had built, the people that I know, the people who do kind of the same thing I do, but with a different flavor or a different approach, or they have different boundaries or work styles, having those people in my network, knowing about them makes it so much easier for me to say, Hey, this isn't a good fit. Like we're not a good fit right now, but I do actually have somebody that is a great fit for you. That I can send you to. And I love being able to lean into that aspect of community where, even if they do the same thing, as you were saying, there's plenty of business for us all to go around.

And when we do that and kind of stick to our boundaries and stick to the way that we work the best and with the clients that we work best, everybody gets to do that when you are in community with other business owners.

There's a space for, for that. And also for being intentional about who is in your community, like as a white woman, I look to, who can I refer to this? Who won't get this opportunity otherwise or who otherwise wasn't in the space and would be a good fit? Or am I willing to give up this opportunity even though it could be a great fit for me because I wanna pass it along to somebody else who might be an even better fit? And making sure that whenever possible, like, I have a rule in my business that when I'm hiring contractors, I never hire anyone who's a cisgender white dude.

Whenever I'm looking for someone who does, like, let's say, some design work or some operation support, You say, who can I find in my network who otherwise might not get this opportunity who would absolutely be a great fit for this? And there's always somebody else who also does the thing you're looking for, but isn't as visible or as public because your network is too small or because they haven't learned the right networking techniques through, like, being in the right rooms, etcetera. And by the right, I mean, the most ubiquitous today in the way business works today. And so part of the rising tide lift all boats has to be really intentional, I think, if you wanna create a community that cares and that continues to increase the amount of equity we have in the systems and starts to change it.

We all need that village. We all need that network, and we all need to build those relationships, but building that village can be really hard to create for ourselves, especially when we live in a very individualistic culture. And a lot of us are working remotely. We are in virtual rooms, but in order to be in a virtual room, you have to be invited into a virtual room. So what are some of the actions that business owners can take to build a stronger community, build that village, build a more diverse community for themselves.

The first thing I will say is don't treat it like a checkbox. Like, don't go, oh, I have to find a black person to be my friend. That's not ever the intention. And don't go in 2 spaces assuming that you are the one who like, you're a hot shit base. Go in, especially when you are in a minority of some way.

So if, like, a cis white guy or even me, a cis white woman, goes into a space that is primarily not white, I might have things I can share and and knowledge to offer, especially around business things. I've been doing this a while. But there's a lot of things I don't know, and it's as much my job to, like, learn as it is to share. And it's as much my job to listen as it is to speak, probably more so. And so when you go into these networks, thinking about your relationship to power and not wielding that in spaces where it would be inappropriate.

Right? Seeding some of the power that you might otherwise have. And then also treating people like humans, not like check boxes. Just really caring about them, really believing anybody you speak to about their experiences. And then deciding, like, is this someone based on how they behave and based on how they talk and based on their values, like, that I wanna be in community with.

It's not something that happens overnight. Networks, you can't just turn around and be like, I have a network. It's a cultivation of relationships. And so I would say if you are looking at this and going, well, I don't have a network, start with one person who you've met or who you know about, who you're like, I kinda wanna be friends with them. Find someone who is at least adjacent to you and say, I wanna know that person.

Work on building a relationship with them without an agenda, without a desire to sell. We are oversold to you frequently in this society. What we wanna know is that you care about us as a human. You see us as valuable, not as just dollars. And so when you're going to talk to someone, think about how am I approaching?

Even though I am sincere, do they have reasons that are founded to mistrust me based on my identity, based on other things they might be getting in the DMs, based on their visibility in certain platforms? And then act accordingly. And then don't take it personal again if they don't respond to you because they're probably bombarded with people who are scammers. For every sincere person, there's always another who is gonna be out to take advantage. And so, like, for people who are not white, I'm completely fine if they're skeptical of me, a white woman, like, showing up in their space because, like, they don't know me from any other white woman.

And it might be harmful. And in certain context, like, I'm white. I'm seeped to white supremacy. I am working every day to unlearn that. We can't shy away from this work just because we might be harmful.

And we can't assume that we're always unharmful and that people who think we're harmful are wrong. Going in with this posture of it's okay if people don't wanna be my friend here or don't even wanna give me the chance to find out if we could be friends.

I think that's a real genuine way to actually build connections because at least in my experience, you know, I've been doing it for a while too. At every single win I've had in business is somehow tied to a relationship that I built with somebody. There's no success that isn't entirely my own and the bootstraps things, it's just bullshit. It's so critical to build genuine relationships. And the people that I started out building those relationships with where both of our businesses have like grown up together, it's such a cool relationship to have with somebody who's seen you grow over the last 10 years.

And they can be like, Hey, do you remember back when?

Yeah. I think that's really cool. I actually also frequently joke that, like, all my business success is because I like to make friends. I am generally interested in being friends with people, and that naturally ends up with an outpouring of also business because people buy from people they know and they like and they trust. And who do they know and they like trust the most?

Oh, they're friends. And, like, with business, let the friendship be enough and know that that is part of building a community is being in relationships with people that you like and that you care about. And sometimes that turns into business and sometimes it doesn't, and it's cool either way. Don't be afraid to form your own small community. I have a lot of people who I've met over the years of business.

And one of the things I've done on a couple different times is formed, like, a small group of us who are all doing business together, and we would just get together on a weekly or a monthly basis and just talk about business things. Again, not what the goal is selling, but just what the goal is supporting. The other thing too I wanna say is we measure business success in 2 ways, revenue and longevity. And I want everybody listening to know that neither of those is actually a really good measure of success. There was 1 year in my business I turned down over $200,000 worth of work because it wasn't right alignment, right values, right contract terms, lots of reasons.

But I said no to projects that otherwise would have handed me money. So my business revenue that year was much lower. I don't see myself as any less successful. Also, this idea that things have to be permanent to be successful is wild as if it wasn't nourishing, as if it wasn't valuable for the time it existed. So never be afraid to be like, this is no longer working for me.

Your business didn't fail. It succeeded for years. It helped you do whatever you needed to do for the time that it was in operation, and it's okay that it ended. There is so much value in having done it even if it doesn't stay forever.

When we run businesses through a lens of care, we provide for and we prioritize the well-being of the people involved. Care should be a core value, it should be something that you prioritize even when it's hard. In a calm company, taking care of the people comes before making a profit. It comes before landing a new client, comes before growth. You are building and designing your business to take care of the people, not the numbers.

Ultimately, it's really difficult to build a calmer company, to build something that is in direct contradiction with the messages of productivity and achievement culture, and honestly, just late stage capitalism. It's really difficult to build something calmer without starting from a foundation of genuine care for the well-being of the folks that surround your business. If you care for the people and you build the foundations of your business with the people who are involved in it in mind, you can ultimately design something that's both sustainable and calmer. Big thanks to everyone who supports Beyond Margins. If you are a listener, a sponsor, or a partner of any kind, I really couldn't do this show without you.

If you're interested in learning more about how to engineer a calm business, comfortable margins, head to be on margins.com. While you're there, you can sign up for my free newsletter. I send it every week, and it's all about one topic. How do you engineer a calmer business? Until next time, stay calm.