National Parks Coast to Coast by Bike

Tahverlee [00:00:03]:
Welcome to the Bike Life podcast by Warmshowers Foundation, where we will be sharing knowledge, experience, tools, and stories of touring cyclists and hosts from around the world. I'm Tahverlee, the woman behind the scenes at Warmshowers Foundation, the leading platform for cyclists looking for hosts and to connect with a passionate international community. Find out more by visiting us at Warmshowers dot org. Now, onto the show.

Jerry Kopack [00:00:40]:
Hello. This is Jerry Kopack, the host of Bike Life, coming to you from the mountains of Breckenridge, Colorado. Today, I'm talking with Spencer McCullough, a cycling advocate who has biked to all of the national parks in the lower 48 states of America. Hey, Spencer. Welcome to Bike Life.

Spencer McCullough [00:00:55]:
Hey, Jerry. Thanks for having me.

Jerry Kopack [00:00:57]:
Alright. First off, let's talk about your project and what inspired you.

Spencer McCullough [00:01:01]:
Yeah. So I got this idea a couple years ago, when I read a New York Times article that was talking about sort of how the national park like the new problems the National Park Service is facing as the climate changes. In in the article they talked about one of the examples they gave was Acadia in Maine and how those trees aren't regenerating at a rate that will sustain the population. And so they were saying, you know, do we let this run its course? The trees become replaced by, like, shrubbery, lower plants like that, or do we bring a southern tree that would thrive in what this environment's becoming and preserve the aesthetic, but, you know, get involved in what's going on very actively? And I was like, woah. You know? I knew some of these places might look different, but, like, that could be seriously different. You know? By the time I'm 70 and doing my classic road trip around America, you know, that coupled with, like, the pine beetle issues we're having out west and the fires, like, a a real good burn through, you know, you have somebody that value will make it look different for, like, the rest of my life. And so I was sort of looking for I was feeling a little stuck at home looking for something to do. I had looked thought about maybe, you know, the Alaska to Patagonia ride.

Spencer McCullough [00:02:16]:
It actually ended up being the same amount of distance, except I never left the US. And so I sort of settled on like, hey. It'd be cool to see these places. I can do a really long bike trip. My longest tour before this had been 3 days. So I figured staying

Jerry Kopack [00:02:31]:
Woah.

Spencer McCullough [00:02:31]:
You know, in a place where my phone worked, my money worked, I understood the culture and spoke the language. You know, there was a lot less barrier tension. And if I wasn't having fun, I could get on the Greyhound and go home just about any point.

Jerry Kopack [00:02:43]:
So you sound like you're an environmentalist. Is that kind of what, inspired

Spencer McCullough [00:02:48]:
this? Yeah. I, I spent a lot of time volunteering in transportation advocacy, in the Denver area. So that's like, you know, sidewalks, bike lanes, better buses. There's a lot of groups in the front range working on that kind of stuff, and I've spent, you know, time with those groups trying to push through different things. And so I brought that background to this trip. That's sort of how I got the idea.

Jerry Kopack [00:03:12]:
So how are you kind of promoting this or bringing the attention to this to this, activity?

Spencer McCullough [00:03:19]:
So when, before the bike trip, it was a lot of, like, community organizing, you know, getting people to turn out to events, holding social rides to, you know, show people how they can get involved or having community events where people can come out to meet ups for the first time and get more involved in this kind of stuff. But with this bike trip, I view I'm using this story to get more support for people who want to bicycle tour in the US. So 7 out of the 51 national parks had hiker biker campsites, you know, campsites reserved for people who show up on a bicycle or on foot. So I'm looking to make that a national park system wide policy. And right now, I'm building a coalition of groups like the East Coast Greenway Association, bikepacking routes. We're pushing for all publicly run campgrounds to have hike or biker campsites. So think National Park Service, developed BLM, developed National Forest, state parks, municipal campgrounds. That way, you know, it gets a little bit easier to go cycle touring, in the US.

Spencer McCullough [00:04:27]:
Do you

Jerry Kopack [00:04:27]:
feel like you're gaining some traction? This gets some attention? Yeah.

Spencer McCullough [00:04:30]:
People are excited. I actually just had a call earlier today with the American Alpine Club about how they could get involved with their campgrounds to support people who are cycle touring. I had a meeting with senator Hickenlooper's office about, you know, what we could do. Colorado Parks and Wildlife is excited about adding hiker biker campsites because we have, you know, the Trans Am and the Great Divide, and people just like to come out here and ride. And we've got plenty of dispersed sites. You know? Sure. Not so much of a need maybe for more advanced people. But for people who are just getting into cyclatorium and bikepacking, which, you know, is a wildly quickly growing activity right now, a lot of people want to get started, in a developed campsite because maybe people haven't biked or they haven't camped or they have a camping background but not a biking or vice versa.

Spencer McCullough [00:05:19]:
And so providing that support for people, or maybe people just wanna have easy overnight, you know, weekender trips and still have water, not have to purify, you know, little things like that.

Jerry Kopack [00:05:30]:
I love this. And when I was reading your application, I was so excited to talk to you because I'm environmentalist. I'm a bike pack, but I'm also a history buff. And so I I knew that the first national park was Yellowstone, I think, back in, like, 18/72, I think. Mhmm. But I had to read up a little bit because I didn't realize it took nearly 50 years later for the national park system to be signed as an act by Woodrow Wilson. So I don't know. Were you a history nerd or just purely environmentalist?

Spencer McCullough [00:06:01]:
I came to this project because the National Park System, if you look at it on a map, is like a pretty cool framework for a bike ride because it takes you to a lot of places in the country. Like, you gotta ride like, if you're riding it, right, you gotta go through all of these places that you might not choose to go on a vacation to or go riding to. And those were the places I was really excited to see. So, like, you know, I was also really hyped up to go see some big redwoods in Sequoia. Yeah. But, like, riding through Tennessee ended up being one of my favorite parts of the trip. You know? Really? So yeah. It it it was really cool.

Spencer McCullough [00:06:38]:
I don't know. I I had a lot of really good experiences in Tennessee. I had some great Warmshowers hosts, met a lot of really nice people. It was also a super beautiful area that I had spent, you know, zero time in.

Jerry Kopack [00:06:52]:
So you're in Colorado. Did, did you check off the Rocky Mountain National Park as your first, or did you do that last on your way home?

Spencer McCullough [00:07:00]:
So I started in Florida. I ended up going basically from Florida to Seattle to LA to Maine. Sort of like this almost figure 8 shape.

Jerry Kopack [00:07:13]:
Got it.

Spencer McCullough [00:07:14]:
And part of that was to try and ride with the seasons, which, ended up not working out too well. I was in Colorado in January. But also the way I mapped it, I took all of the National Park visitor centers, and then I put their address into a trucking logistics software that would show you, like, the most efficient way to drive to all of these places. Interesting. And so that gave me my order, and then I tweaked it a little bit for riding with the seasons. And then I sort of just went park by park in that order. So there were times where I'd be, like, you know, 500 miles from a park going this way, like, you know, to the east, and 200 miles from a park to the west, but I would skip that closer one because I would do this loop and sort of end back up in this area, and it was more efficient to keep going, you know, the other way. So for listeners, if they go to my website, one long trip dot bike, you could see the map.

Jerry Kopack [00:08:06]:
Nice. A better idea. And were you writing about this along the way?

Spencer McCullough [00:08:12]:
Posting a lot of Instagram stories. That was sort of what I had the the capacity for at the time. And so now I'm spending more time doing, writing and reflection.

Jerry Kopack [00:08:21]:
Yeah. I mean, think about how important it is that we have a national park system.

Spencer McCullough [00:08:26]:
Right.

Jerry Kopack [00:08:26]:
So, for example, the world probably wants to develop or at least the United States wants to develop. And once these magical places are developed on, it isn't like you're going to build a subdivision someplace and all of a sudden think, like, oops. Let's undo that, and let's make this place brutal again. Like, once these places are gone, they're they're gone. So it's it's really great that we have the system. That's great that you're trying to bring more attention and advocacy and focus to these places because they are so, so important for people.

Spencer McCullough [00:08:57]:
Yeah. And it's also good to remember that just because they're protected now, doesn't mean they'll be protected forever. We're seeing that in Florida right now. Their state parks wanna start building more golf courses and pickleball courts in their state parks. That's sort of a new thing. So if you live in Florida, you know, let your state know that maybe that's not the best use of your public lands. But, yeah, there's threats constantly because, you know, they're beautiful places, and there's a lot of money to be made by exploiting them in the short term.

Jerry Kopack [00:09:26]:
Of course. Of course. Man. That that hurts my heart to hear those things. Yeah, I yeah. I can't even get into that because that just that's that's emotional for me. But I'm glad that you're doing this work. Are you familiar with Doug Tompkins, the former founder of, of North Face and what he was doing down in Chile? Mhmm.

Jerry Kopack [00:09:46]:
Yeah.

Spencer McCullough [00:09:46]:
I've watched the 180 Degrees South many times.

Jerry Kopack [00:09:49]:
Yeah. Same as it's one of my favorites. And I it it would sit so interesting because he tells a story about how he and his wife were buying up large plots of of land in Mhmm. Chile. And all the locals were saying, like, god, it's just some some rich white guy who's just gonna take it and develop it. And what he did is he put it in to conservation and gifted it back to the government, which gives me goosebumps to hear those kind of actions out there.

Spencer McCullough [00:10:14]:
Yeah. And he even made the government match or exceed his donation of land to get that land back from him, which I was really cool.

Jerry Kopack [00:10:21]:
Yeah. So you said 51 National Parks. Mhmm. How long did this project take you?

Spencer McCullough [00:10:29]:
The riding was 411 days. And from when I mapped this route to when I took off was, like, a year and a half.

Jerry Kopack [00:10:36]:
Okay. I said sounds like you weren't unfortunately able to time the seasons too well. So I'm guessing Rocky Mountain National Park in January. I've been there in January to go skiing. Not so great in the wintertime.

Spencer McCullough [00:10:49]:
But the hotel rates in Estes are fantastic if you need a place to stay. They're, like, $60 for a 2 bedroom. So check out Estes Park in January.

Jerry Kopack [00:10:58]:
That makes sense. Did you end up hitting, I don't know, Florida or someplace in the middle of July or August?

Spencer McCullough [00:11:05]:
I started in Florida in April, which I thought would be, like, a reasonable time to be there. And I was expecting to see all of these people biking, you know, in the keys and stuff. Yeah. And a couple Warmshowers for us to head in Florida were, like, you're probably our last person for the season. It's about to get really hot.

Jerry Kopack [00:11:20]:
I was like, already?

Spencer McCullough [00:11:21]:
Oh my gosh. They're like, yeah. Everyone comes through in, like, you know, February. I was like, oh, okay. Oops. Because I had originally wanted to start in Maine. And instead of doing, like, a figure 8 shape, just sort of do your Northern US, West Coast, Southern US. But the snow wasn't melting out in Maine fast enough, and then I was gonna be too late, you know, in the year and other places.

Spencer McCullough [00:11:43]:
And so I ended up taking the train. My folks live, like, in the Philadelphia area, and so I left my car and my stuff. I took the train down to Miami and started there.

Jerry Kopack [00:11:52]:
My, my brother was just recently in Maine in Arcadia National Park, and he was blown away by it. And he grew up in Colorado like I did, and he said it was just incredible. What was your take on Arcadia?

Spencer McCullough [00:12:05]:
So that was a funny one for me. Riding through Maine, I'd never really been up there. Maine is beautiful. Sure. It also blows my mind how big Maine is. Like, you think Boston to Portland, Maine, not that far. Portland, Maine to Bar Harbor, super far. And it was super gorgeous.

Spencer McCullough [00:12:21]:
I'd love to go back maybe with a boat and, like, tool around, but I'd been out on the road for so long. So I'd meet all these people as I'm just getting closer, and they're like, oh, are you gonna, like, stay for a week and check everything out? And I was like, no. I'm gonna get there. I'm gonna ride up Cadillac Mountain, do a lap around on the carriage roads, and then I'm gonna go home. Because I've been outside for so long. I I would like to go home.

Jerry Kopack [00:12:43]:
Yeah. So I was curious about that. Were you on any kind of schedule or just were you just trying to make it to all these national parks, get through them, or you were you taking some time to really soak in the the natural beauty of them?

Spencer McCullough [00:12:55]:
Yeah. I had planned, like, at the most for it to take 18 months, and it took around 14. And it sort of depended. By the end of the trip, when I had, like, 3 parks left, sort of when I, like, left Tennessee, it was, like, West Virginia, Virginia area. I had this moment where I sort of, like, realized I'd gotten everything out of this trip that I wanted to get out of it. Yeah. But I still had, like, 2 or 3 parks left. And so that segment just became, like, how long can you sit in the saddle and how fast can we make this go by? Yeah.

Spencer McCullough [00:13:28]:
And I still had, like, really cool times. Like, I had never spent any time in Cleveland or in Buffalo before, but I wasn't taking, like, 4 or 5 day breaks. I was sorta like, I could see the light at the end of the tunnel, and I wanted to get out of there. Okay. But at other times in the trip when I was just totally in the trip, yeah, there was no schedule. It's like sort of whatever happened that day was what unfolded. It could be a 100 mile day or something really cool could appear in front of me, and it's a 20 mile day, you know, or, you know, go anywhere.

Jerry Kopack [00:13:54]:
And then some of the national parks are are absolutely huge, like Yellowstone or Glacier, and they're so far out there. How much time did you spend on those? Because they're incredible.

Spencer McCullough [00:14:06]:
Yeah. It would depend on the park. Glacier, I was there for, like, 4 days, I think. Yeah. Because I usually picked, like, a thing I wanted to do. Like, if they had, like, a popular cycling climb, the whole trip was very, like, cycling centric. Like, I didn't do a lot of hiking. I would go on some trail runs, but I usually, like, I didn't most times, I didn't leave the bike somewhere and go camping and then come back to it later.

Spencer McCullough [00:14:29]:
But in Glacier, I wanted to ride Going to the Sun Road. I wanted to see many glaciers, so I rode all the way across the park back there, camped out, and then rode all the way back through the park. At the Grand Canyon, you know, the big thing to do would be go sleep at the bottom of the Grand Canyon. So that was one of the few places where I left my bike, and I just took my pannier and, like, walked down to the bottom of the Grand Canyon, which was a pretty funny sight. One of the rangers lent me, like, a big, like, burlap bag that they use for carrying tools because I didn't really have anything to, like you know, it's easy to carry the stuff when it goes on the bike. Once you put them in your arms, I don't have a bag for that. So, they lent me a a bag, and I was able to secure a permit. There's just there was availability when I got there, so I just spent the night down at the bottom.

Jerry Kopack [00:15:13]:
That's super fortunate too because those permits can be hard to come by in the Grand Canyon.

Spencer McCullough [00:15:17]:
Yeah. So that was I've had luck every time if you want it for that day. I've gone to the backcountry office, and people be like, I want it for tomorrow. And they're like, oh, well, we have nothing for tomorrow. But if you wanna go right now and people's plans usually aren't that flexible and they're

Jerry Kopack [00:15:32]:
not set up that way. Gotcha. What about the stuff in in Utah?

Spencer McCullough [00:15:36]:
I think is it, like, Arches? Arches, Canyonlands Yeah. Rice Canyon, and Zion.

Jerry Kopack [00:15:41]:
Those are pretty magical places. It's like being in a whole another world in in those places.

Spencer McCullough [00:15:47]:
Yeah. So for Zion, I, I rented you know, it was November when I was there. So I rented, like, the the cold water gear and hiked the Narrows.

Jerry Kopack [00:15:55]:
Wow.

Spencer McCullough [00:15:55]:
2 2 of my friends drove out because that was also the 10,000 mile mark. So I had some folks drive out from Colorado and

Jerry Kopack [00:16:01]:
meet me. We hung out there, and that was fun. 10000 miles. Yeah. So you said that this trip was actually longer than going from Alaska to to Argentina.

Spencer McCullough [00:16:12]:
So how many same distance. So 18,000 miles. Yeah. Which is also, like, the minimum if you were gonna, like, go for a speed record around the world. It's also 18,000 miles.

Jerry Kopack [00:16:21]:
18,000. Any, any ambitions about going for a speed record around the world?

Spencer McCullough [00:16:26]:
No. Thank you. But, you know, the Alaska to Patagonia ride is looking pretty good. Yeah. I I jokingly called this my shakeout ride for Alaska to Patagonia Yeah. Just because, like I was saying earlier, like, it was always easy to go home if I ended up not liking it. Now I'm 2 days into working again, and I'm like, alright. When can I get off next summer to go on the next one?

Jerry Kopack [00:16:46]:
How was, how was reentry after that that time period?

Spencer McCullough [00:16:50]:
It's been 2 months. It's been pretty weird. I think one of the things I noticed the most is when you're on the bike, you have very few decisions to make, and the decisions you do make are very immediate. It's like, I'm hungry. I'm gonna eat now. I'm tired. We're done for the day.

Jerry Kopack [00:17:08]:
But then

Spencer McCullough [00:17:08]:
when you're home, it's like, oh, well, in 2 weeks, I have this thing, and I gotta book a ticket for that. And I'm coordinating with this group of people to go on this thing. Yeah. And I gotta look at my schedule. And it's like, you know, you know, it's so much nicer when it's just you, and you just do what you wanna do.

Jerry Kopack [00:17:25]:
Life definitely slows down and becomes very, very simple. So your only job for the day is to get to the next place, wherever that is. And if you're camping, well, it's just stopping wherever you wanna stop. And I remember when I was touring through and I I've done a fair bit of bike bike touring as well, and I was touring with a friend. And I was new at this, and I asked my friends, like, well, where are we gonna stop today? And he just said, you know, we'll stop whenever the daylight goes away because I was used to, like, well, I need to get to this point every day. I'm targeting this town, this village, this place. He's like, yeah, we're gonna ride until it gets dark, and then we'll just pitch your tent. And that was just so foreign to me.

Jerry Kopack [00:18:05]:
And now that's you know, it's it's kind of as a it's sort of seeped into how I live my life anyways day to day. So it's like, yeah. Well, it'll happen when it happens. And it's Right. It's weird. It's been a it's been a big, diversion from my very tried and true type a personality. So now I'm like an a minus personality, so I'm a little bit more relaxed. I don't know how how you were in your, say, regular life, and has has this kind of big tour changed you other than making you want to go into another one?

Spencer McCullough [00:18:37]:
It's I'd say the biggest way it's changed me is that bikes have become a lot more of my day to day, just with the advocacy stuff, which has been fun. I've got to meet a lot of people like yourself who bike a lot, talk a lot about bikes. Yeah. Get invited on other trips that require me to buy a different bike than the bike I had before. Start maybe training the bike if I wanna do some bigger days.

Jerry Kopack [00:19:03]:
It's the that's the n plus 1. Right?

Spencer McCullough [00:19:05]:
Exactly. I live in a van full time, and I have 3 bikes.

Jerry Kopack [00:19:09]:
Okay.

Spencer McCullough [00:19:09]:
I had to move some furniture around to to get them to fit. So I'd had the van before the trip, and now it's been modified for the new lifestyle. So

Tahverlee [00:19:21]:
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Jerry Kopack [00:20:08]:
So let's, let's nerd out then. What, what bike did you take on your on your trip?

Spencer McCullough [00:20:13]:
So it'll probably become pretty evident quickly in this conversation that I know very little about bikes. I have a Surly Straggler.

Jerry Kopack [00:20:21]:
Great bike.

Spencer McCullough [00:20:21]:
I bought it on Craigslist. That's why I went with it. I'm a big Craigslist guy. I've never bought a new bike. The Strangler, I did learn people out there, if you're planning your first tour, get a wheel set that will hold all that weight. I had a pretty light wheel set and dealt with a lot of broken spokes and

Jerry Kopack [00:20:39]:
cracked rims

Spencer McCullough [00:20:40]:
before I realized to just get a beefy, beefy wheel. Yeah. So that was something I, you know, I did that to myself.

Jerry Kopack [00:20:48]:
They, there was a friend who told me who had this expression, it sounds like he lost that race in the garage. Meaning, like, that was avoidable. But if you didn't know, you didn't know. But the thing is, Surly makes really powerful not powerful. Really burly, steel bikes. And I I actually have a Surly as well, and I've taken it to places. And I've done my best to try to indirectly break it, and it has been fine. So

Spencer McCullough [00:21:16]:
Which one do you have?

Jerry Kopack [00:21:17]:
I have the Karate Monkey. So it's the mountain bike version. Yeah.

Spencer McCullough [00:21:20]:
And I

Jerry Kopack [00:21:20]:
actually put front suspension on it because I I took a trip years ago to South America, and I rode from La Paz, Bolivia along the Altiplano to Cusco, Peru. And it about shook the fillings out of my teeth and some of those washboard erodes. And I thought, you know what? If it cost me an extra pound of weight, I'm gonna enjoy this much more. And so that's my little pro tip for the day. So I I really enjoy the bike that I've had. I've had it for 10 years now.

Spencer McCullough [00:21:49]:
Yeah. That's sweet. Yeah. If you're gonna go surly and you wanna do something like this, you're gonna carry a lot of weight. Yeah. The long haul trucker is the popular one for a reason. The frame geometry I have learned on the straggler is a little too tight to be super well balanced with all the weight.

Jerry Kopack [00:22:05]:
Is that, is that in your stable, or is that on your, your wish list for Craigslist?

Spencer McCullough [00:22:10]:
I don't know. Yeah. I'll check the Craigslist. Right now, I've got just, like, a beater Cannondale Townie bike that I bought to get stolen in Denver, and I've had it for 8 years, shockingly. And then I've got the straggler, which now that it has no weight on it, is fantastic. Yeah. And then I just got this, sorta like mountain bike, basically, and went mountain biking for the first time. And for people out there who are mountain biking, I was running 40 psi because I thought that was super low.

Spencer McCullough [00:22:37]:
Nope. And learned that is super high. And I was like, how can I not make any of these turns? And then when I got done my ride at South Table, I was in a bike shop in Golden, and someone was like, bro.

Jerry Kopack [00:22:49]:
I don't know exactly. I know those trails well from having lived down in your neighborhood. So, along your trip, so was there anything that happened that said, holy crap. How am I gonna get myself out of this one?

Spencer McCullough [00:23:02]:
So people ask that question a lot. They want the drama. I had a nearly mechanical free for the most part trip. Like I said, I had a couple broken spokes, but those are easily fixable. If you have one of those Kevlar string things, you can ride those for, like, 50 or 60 more miles. My worst mechanical, I was on this farm road in rural Texas, and I got a flat. I went to take the flat the, the front tire off. When I went to take my axle off, it just snapped.

Spencer McCullough [00:23:28]:
Like, the metal just fatigued and broke. Like, so if you have, like, the the, quick release. Yeah. When I went to, like, pull the handle, the other side just shot off into the grass. It had, like, sheared. And I'm just standing there and I'm like, And so I pull up on Google Maps, you know, like, where's the closest bike shop to me? It's, like, an hour drive away. I was like, oh god. This is gonna be a whole project.

Spencer McCullough [00:23:51]:
I'm like, at least a 20 minute walk to, like, the highway where there's gonna be anyone. And so I call luckily, I have service. I call the bike shop. I'm talking to the guys to make sure, 1, you know, that they're open, that they'll be open the next day when I probably get there, and that they have what I need. And the guy was asking me, you know, where I broke down. I had just gone through this, like, one stoplight little town. And he's like, oh, actually, that's where I live. If you want me to just bring you an axle after work, I can be in, like, 6 or 7 hours.

Spencer McCullough [00:24:20]:
Just hang tight. I was like, okay. So I just sat there in the grass, walked up and down the road. There were some horses, watched the clouds go by. Then he showed up right at sundown, and then he had camping beta. 4 miles away, there was a campsite that didn't show up on Google Maps. It's like a small municipal thing on a lake.

Jerry Kopack [00:24:39]:
Love that. And he wasn't, like, a warm shower showers host? He was just a guy?

Spencer McCullough [00:24:43]:
No. He he was just the mechanic who answered the phone at the bike shop.

Jerry Kopack [00:24:48]:
Hey. That is awesome. I love small towns. It's just you you get some of those experiences. I I've had a couple of those traveling too. Did you use any Warmshowers along the way? I think you mentioned you did.

Spencer McCullough [00:24:59]:
Yeah. I used Warmshowers a significant amount. Almost 20% of my trip, I think, was with someone through Warmshowers.

Jerry Kopack [00:25:07]:
Cool. Any, any memorable experiences?

Spencer McCullough [00:25:10]:
Oh, yeah. I mean, I made, part of what made Tennessee so great, I stayed with, Warmshowers host Lauren in Knoxville. I stayed with her coming out of the Smokies. We had such a great time that when I came back around, Knoxville is actually where that figure 8 crosses over. Yeah. We had plans to meet up. I stayed for a few more days, and, you know, we still keep in touch to this day. Oh my god.

Spencer McCullough [00:25:35]:
So many. I, I stay with people in Colorado. That was pretty fun because,

Jerry Kopack [00:25:40]:
I was

Spencer McCullough [00:25:40]:
there in January. So usually, when you're somewhere in season, Warmshowers host are, like, expecting you. Yeah. And so it's, like, January, and I would message people be like, hey. You know, I'm, like, a week away from your town. Do you even live here in the winter?

Jerry Kopack [00:25:52]:
Like Right.

Spencer McCullough [00:25:53]:
Maybe you live somewhere else. And people are like, you're coming on a bicycle. Right? I'm like, yeah. Yeah. No. I'm bike touring. I it's just January. I know.

Jerry Kopack [00:26:01]:
And, and skinny tires too.

Spencer McCullough [00:26:03]:
Yeah. I had 30 eights, but they were studded.

Jerry Kopack [00:26:06]:
Oh, you were studded? Okay.

Spencer McCullough [00:26:08]:
I don't know. I mean, they're they clear the roads pretty quickly here in Colorado. I don't know if the studs really made a difference, but, you know, 7 years of bike commuting in Denver in the snow was definitely good practice for, riding in the snow.

Jerry Kopack [00:26:22]:
I, I've been a 6 year bike commuter in Breckenridge in the wintertime. And so when we have snow up here, we've got snow. It doesn't melt away. And I also have studded tires. And I I'll tell you, it it makes a huge difference. So you you had mentioned that maybe you weren't a a lifelong cyclist that you're kind of newer to this game?

Spencer McCullough [00:26:42]:
No. New to cycle touring, but I've always biked as my primary transportation. So I didn't have a car in college. When I moved here, I didn't have a car. I have a car now, and I must never drive it. Got it.

Jerry Kopack [00:26:53]:
Yeah. So this big trip that, that you're planning but not really planning, but it's somewhere out there, this this South American tour. What's, what's what's changing your ideas as far as how you would approach this? Would you change your gear, your mentality? What what's what did you learn from this big one?

Spencer McCullough [00:27:10]:
Oh, biggest lesson I learned is to spend the money up front. You know, my Craigslist bike was, like, $800, But I think the steel and, like, the frame and the handlebars and the forks are, like, the only original parts at this point. And so I spent, like, you know, almost $3, like, replacing and fixing things where I could have just spent $3 upfront on really nice stuff, and then it maybe wouldn't have broken or need to be replaced at the rate that it was. Yeah. Because I always thought of bike maintenance from commuting as sort of like a function of time. Because, like, every year at the same time, I'll get a tune up, but at the same I'll get a new chain. Every couple of years at the same time,

Jerry Kopack [00:27:50]:
I'll get these.

Spencer McCullough [00:27:50]:
Because everything wears at the same rate because I bike the same amount every year. Yeah. But I was doing, like, 3 or 4 times my, like, annual biking average, maybe 5 times. And so, like, in 2 months, something would be worn through. Plus, you're not, like, cleaning anything super well on tour. And I'm just, like, how is this happening all the time?

Jerry Kopack [00:28:10]:
So your national park tour took, would you say, like, a year and a half?

Spencer McCullough [00:28:15]:
411 days. Yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:28:16]:
Yeah. Yeah. How long do you think it would take you to get from the northern part of the continent to the southern part of the south continent?

Spencer McCullough [00:28:24]:
I don't know. I think I'd like to do it in, like, a 2 year trip. Yeah. That one would be slower paced, more side quests. I'd like to go climbing more on the way, do some, like, high alpine mountaineering. So I had to carry those boots around, which would be a little heavy. But when you get to the Alps, that'd be pretty fun. Or not the Alps, not the Andes.

Spencer McCullough [00:28:44]:
That'd be pretty fun.

Jerry Kopack [00:28:45]:
So, still Paniers or maybe a different setup?

Spencer McCullough [00:28:49]:
I don't know. I haven't gotten far enough through. Maybe that's when you need a Bob trailer. Maybe I only had 2 Paniers on this trip. Maybe I just need 4. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely fatter tires, maybe suspension seat, you know, the little things.

Jerry Kopack [00:29:05]:
Did you, did you find, like, you had too much stuff, or is there something that you felt like, man. If I only had this, I'm totally missing that one thing.

Spencer McCullough [00:29:14]:
No. So when I started planning, I was really trying not to have too much stuff. And so I actually started by going through, like, people's packing lists for racing, like, the tour de bide, which is, like, the exact opposite of this trip. And so I'd be like, alright. Could I get away with this? It's like, okay. No. This would be unrealistic for a year and a half. But if I only add this, only add this, only add this, maybe, you know, those upgrades are enough.

Spencer McCullough [00:29:38]:
So, like, I met several people who are touring and they had like a small camp chair. Because they make those pretty small now. They're like a pound pound and a half. Oh. I didn't have a camp chair, but every morning when my friend Kyle that I met on the road would sleep in, I would absolutely steal his camp chair and cook breakfast in it. I was like, wow. This is a pretty nice luxury. I just couldn't bring myself to to add a camp chair to my bike.

Spencer McCullough [00:30:00]:
Or an espresso machine? Yeah. Nope. I also yeah. I got off coffee, like, getting my full detox before this trip because I didn't wanna really be beholden to that ritual every morning. There were gonna be some days where, you know, stealth camping. I wanted to get up and get out. Yeah. Days that it was gonna be raining, days that it was gonna be cold.

Spencer McCullough [00:30:18]:
And so I started drinking decaf coffee on the cold day mornings, especially, like, in the Utah, Colorado area because my morning ritual became get up, lay my tent in the sun so that it could dry out, and I wasn't sleeping in, like, a wet tent in the morning, and then it started. Yeah. And, plus, I was waiting for this I was waiting till, like, 11 o'clock to really hit the road so the sun could get up and, like, thaw things out. So it was slash instead of solid ice, and I was trying to get off the road by 3 or 4 before it started freezing again. So those are those are short segments.

Jerry Kopack [00:30:48]:
So were you were you camping a bit a fair bit then, it sounds like, when the, the more inclement weather?

Spencer McCullough [00:30:53]:
I was camping in Utah. I got just about all I got across Colorado, like, west to east on with Warmshowers. And then when I went south towards New Mexico, I had to camp a little bit more.

Jerry Kopack [00:31:08]:
Got it. Did you, did you pick up any riders along the way, other people? Because I know the United States has a has a really good bike touring scene. So I know for me, I've met people along the way, become great friends. Wasn't sure if you found some other riders to, share some miles with.

Spencer McCullough [00:31:23]:
Yeah. Shout out to Kyle. I met him in North Dakota. He was doing the northern tier sort of, and I was riding the northern tier. And there's a guy on Warmshowers in Jackal, North Dakota that built an addition off his house, and he's like he hosts, like, 200 people a year. There's little, like yeah. It's just a tiny little town. He's like, you can sleep inside or you can sleep in the backyard.

Spencer McCullough [00:31:47]:
And he just has a chores list. So it's like, if you're there on Tuesday, you vacuum. If you're there on Wednesday, you clean the house. Love that. It it's super cool. And that's so that's where I met Kyle, and then we rode together for a while. Ah. It was funny when I met him.

Spencer McCullough [00:31:59]:
So I was like, oh, are you going cross country? And he's like, I don't know. I was like, what do you mean you don't? Like, where'd you start? He's like, New York City. I'm like, dude, you're almost at the end.

Jerry Kopack [00:32:07]:
But he

Spencer McCullough [00:32:07]:
had started out doing, like, a New York to Cleveland ride, and he just sort of kept going until he was, like, tired of it. And he made it to Seattle, turned south. So he made it much farther than I think he originally set out to, which is cool to to hear about. God.

Jerry Kopack [00:32:21]:
I love that. So would you go solo again on your route, or do you have some some people who would who would join you? Because that South America trip is big, and it's remote.

Spencer McCullough [00:32:34]:
I don't know if I need to do that again by myself. That was fun. It would be fun to share it with someone. I've got some friends I'd love to take with me. They don't really bike. I've been trying to twist them all arms, not making a lot of progress, but we'll see. I got a couple years, so I would do something like that again.

Jerry Kopack [00:32:52]:
So now that you got a a big tour under your belt, you've learned a lot from it. For someone who's listening today who is maybe envisioning a small tour or a medium tour, a big tour like yours, what kind of tips would you give them who doesn't really know much about this idea of bike touring?

Spencer McCullough [00:33:09]:
You're gonna meet on the Internet and on the forums, it seems like a lot of people know a lot about bikes and stuff. And then it seems to be everyone you meet on the road, like, knows how to change a flat, maybe. I met several people that, like, started out their tour not knowing how to do that. And in practice, there's a lot more people out there just skating by, who don't know, you know, what gearing they're running. They don't really know all this other stuff. So don't be intimidated. And if you're worried about fitness, start by commuting. If you could do, like, you know, I read 5 miles each way to work.

Spencer McCullough [00:33:42]:
That's 10 miles every day that you just have to do. It keeps you fresh. If you don't bike a lot, it gives you time in the saddle, which really will help you be more comfortable in a long torque because you might find that your shoulders hurt on your bike. You need to get that changed or just, like, help you get more comfortable in your saddle. And even if you're just running errands all day, you'll be shocked at how many miles a week. You you know, that adds up to be pretty quickly. So that's something pretty small to start with. You don't have to, like, get a training plan or ride around with rocks in your pannier or something.

Spencer McCullough [00:34:11]:
Just, like, go out and ride. And if your trip's long enough, you'll develop all the fitness you need on the road.

Jerry Kopack [00:34:17]:
Did you put rocks in your pain years to train?

Spencer McCullough [00:34:19]:
No. I'm just thinking about people who, like, train through hikes to go to, like, red rocks with a bunch of rocks in their backpack. And, like, I don't even know people do that on bikes.

Jerry Kopack [00:34:26]:
I, I I have heard about that. I've heard about people doing, the Grand Canyon hike too with a with a a backpack full of dumbbells or something.

Spencer McCullough [00:34:35]:
Sure. Why not?

Jerry Kopack [00:34:38]:
Well, so tell me about the listeners out there. Are there any ways for people to connect with you, to follow with your advocacy, to get involved, or just see what you're up to? How can they find you?

Spencer McCullough [00:34:49]:
Yeah. I'm working on a project right now that works with the advocacy where I'm mapping all of the hiker biker campsites and cyclist friendly campsites. You know, that's like state parks that have hiker bikers. That's gas stations that love when cyclists camp behind them. So if you've got any of those places, to contribute, you can go to go bike camping.com. Or if you've stayed at some of those places, you know, verify that the information's accurate or check-in just to show people because you can check-in on the site and leave, you know, feedback. You know, check-in to show people that this is a popular spot that people can't. And then on Instagram, spencexyz.

Spencer McCullough [00:35:23]:
I post a lot more advocacy stuff and stuff from trips there.

Jerry Kopack [00:35:27]:
Awesome. We will have all those in our show notes for you guys to check out. And, Spencer, I wanna thank you so much for joining me. I love this conversation, and I love what you're doing for the environment out there.

Spencer McCullough [00:35:40]:
Thanks. Thanks for having me. This was fun.

Jerry Kopack [00:35:42]:
Alright. You guys have all been listening to my conversation with Spencer McCullough. If you enjoy our show, give us a like, a share on your social channels, or maybe just tell your friends. These stories will hopefully inspire you to set off on your own bicycle adventure and maybe make the world feel a little bit smaller one pedal stroke at a time. My name is Jerry Kopack, and until the next time, keep riding.

Tahverlee [00:36:05]:
Thank you for joining us, and we hope you enjoyed the show as much as we enjoyed making it. Wherever you are listening, please leave us a rating and a review, as it helps us reach more cyclists and hosts around the world. Visit us@warmshowers.org to become a part of our community or on Instagram at Warmshowers_org. If you would like to be a guest on the show or submit a question, please make sure to email us at podcast at Warmshowers.org.