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Justin Gagliani brings Jessica Jeroux to the table. Jessica is a drow trans woman pursuing knowledge of lost civilizations.
Justin and I discuss what it means to be a trans woman in gender-segregated drow society, learning to explore and express your gender, and the narrative implications of D&D mechanics.
This character is built for D&D 5e.
Justin Gagliani is a co host of the So You Want to Be a Dungeon Master podcast, a TTRPG content creator, and a published writer.
You can learn more about Justin at:
https://www.characterswithoutstories.com/guests/justin-gagliani
Roll for Luck is an all-star black cast actual play where the Sapphics come to terms of what can potentially happen when dealing with Portals. Pulled into a different reality now they hunt to find a way back home, if it even exists.
Cover art by The Curiographer
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecuriographer
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Thanks for listening, and may all your characters find their stories!
WEBVTT
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This is deep.
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This is getting really deep right off the bat.
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Ready?
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In high school, a picture of myself wearing women's clothes went public.
00:00:08.890 --> 00:00:15.320
I could see in Drow society that transitioning to a woman could be seen as social climbing.
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This mechanically doesn't make sense.
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That's why I want to do it.
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Heck yeah.
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Cleric at 10th level, they learn divine intervention.
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That's like the new ability they get.
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What changed?
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I want to dress like Laura Dern.
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Hello friends.
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Welcome to Characters Without Stories.
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A TTRPG podcast about the roads not yet traveled.
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I'm Star.
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This episode I'm joined by Justin Gagliani.
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Justin is a co host of the So You Want to Be a Dungeon Master podcast, a TTRPG content creator, and a published writer.
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Justin, welcome to the show.
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Thank you so much for having me.
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Excited to be here.
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How long have you been podcasting?
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Goodness.
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I've been podcasting probably for oh boy.
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Three, four years, but there was a stint of time where I did a different podcast with my sister where we just talked about all kinds of stuff and that went on for like almost two years.
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Didn't get any traction, did not do well because there was no niche.
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It was like one episodes about mythical monsters and the next episodes about our favorite Pokemon.
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And it just did not do well because people didn't know what to search for.
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Whatever.
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Then one of my friends, very close friend, Taylor from a home game that we play in was like, Hey, do you want to do a D and D podcast?
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And I was like, I would love to do a D&D podcast and thus So You Want to Be a DM was created.
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God, that's been going on since maybe October of 2023.
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We started recording episodes and we didn't publish anything until late December, January 2024 to kind of build a little bit of a catalog.
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When I started, I didn't know anything.
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And so I didn't do that.
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And everybody's like, you got to start with three episodes in the can.
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And so you can release three at once and people can binge.
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And I'm like, I didn't do that.
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I was just like, let's throw it out there and see what happens.
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Yeah.
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No, most of the things we're doing, we're kind of learning as we go, as we add more and more to the repertoire of, so you want to be a DM.
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Yeah, definitely.
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You got to start somewhere.
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How long had you been playing D&D before you started podcasting?
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I would say probably north of 5 years, give or take, most of that time being a DM, kind of getting stuck in that role of the forever DM, but finding out as I've like, been a player a couple times, finding out that I actually do prefer being the Dungeon Master, some of that has to do with like, relinquishing control, it's a whole side story that I need to figure out on my own, maybe with a therapist, I don't know.
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What do you like about being a DM?
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Oh goodness, I think I just love the idea of sharing stories with the table and seeing how they touch on it and how they react to certain things and like I love making people laugh, and I think that's a big part of my personal DMing style and how I play tabletop games is always funny.
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I'm interested in one day pursuing like, a more dramatic and like, hardcore like, "your parents fell at the hands of the demon lord." Like, that's super interesting and I want to try it one day.
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But most of the time, it's just jokes.
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It's just silly laughs that I like that have people laughing.
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Have fun.
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And I think that's kind of where it comes from is just being the ringleader of a bunch of silly goofs is kind of why I love it so much.
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Like many of my guests being a forever DM, you're bringing a character you haven't had a chance to play.
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Yes.
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So.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Justin, who are you bringing to the table?
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So, I made a character that was supposed to be for a short campaign that one of my players wanted to run, and for a slew of reasons, that never happened.
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And so I have this character kinda locked and loaded, ready to go at a moment's notice.
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Her name is Jessica Jeroux, because I love alliterations.
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I could talk so much just about the name.
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I love alliterations so much.
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So Jessica Jeroux, JJ.
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The Jeroux has like a silent X at the end, because I'm obsessed with like needlessly pompous names.
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Like kind of like this pretentiousness that's just unnecessary.
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So having like silent letters.
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My actual last name has a silent letter in it, so that works out.
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Jessica Jeroux is a drow wizard of the Chronurgy magic arcane tradition, so essentially time magic.
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I love wizards, I love having as many spells as possible, and then also like, I wanted to really explore an interesting dynamic with this character in relation to my own experience with gender.
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So, like, I, as a dungeon master and as a human being, have used a lot of what I refer to as, like, classic D&D lore, so, like, Forgotten Realms, Faerun, all that stuff.
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But I've, from the very get go, have changed a ton of it because there's, it's steeped in so much problematic behavior, whether it's, like, how it views fantasy races or, like, the idea that certain things can be born inherently evil and yadda yadda yadda.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So I wanted to explore a very specific part of it that I kind of picked up from reading the very first, and I probably personally, no offense to anybody who likes the series, it just wasn't for me, but R.
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A.
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Salvatore's, like Drizzt Do'Urden or whatever his name is.
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Another pretentious name.
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Yeah.
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Another pretentious name, yes.
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Multiple Z's and an apostrophe, you know it's D&D.
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You need some apostrophes.
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Mm hmm.
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Reading about.
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the drow society that he grew up in and how it was incredibly matriarchal but also super separated by gender at least in that first book i've been told that things change and that there are exceptions to the rule and that's fantastic but just using that as like this core concept and asking the question of like what it would be like to be trans in that society to have been, you know, assigned male at birth and then, you know, have that inner feeling, that gender dysphoria of feeling like you are truly a woman and what that would mean in that society and stuff like that.
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And also giving myself an interesting challenge in terms of like, what if my family is not cool with it?
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Yeah.
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The reason I feel just to get ahead of some things that I would ask people if I heard people saying these things, I personally identify as non binary, I use they them pronouns, I've explored my own gender a ton in my life, both in the closet and out of the closet, and I've used in the past, specifically Dungeons and Dragons, but tabletop games in general, to explore so many aspects of my own identity, whether it was being queer, like I played a bisexual character.
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Before I ever felt comfortable enough coming out as bisexual.
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I played a non binary or femme presenting characters far before I ever felt comfortable identifying publicly as non binary or using they them pronouns.
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I even played characters who were sober and didn't drink alcohol before I finally made the plunge to be like, I'm not gonna drink alcohol anymore.
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And it's been over a year.
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I wanted to explore that more fully in a safe place that felt fun and interesting.
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I also get cool magic spells and stuff.
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Yeah, that's kind of the impetus of the creation of Jessica Jeroux.
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And this is a trans woman, correct?
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Yeah.
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Why a trans woman?
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I wanted to explore both the character and my own relationship with what it means to be a woman.
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For people listening, I'm using air quotes when I say that, but I think that's kind of what it was, what it was all about.
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A sort of nudging of myself as the player and creator of the character to feel more comfortable exploring femininity and different aspects of it and stuff like that.
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I went through such an interesting journey when it comes to my own gender presentation and identity and stuff like that in high school.
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This is deep.
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This is getting really deep right off the bat.
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Ready?
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In high school, a picture of myself wearing women's clothes went public.
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Yeah, bad, not good for 17, 18 year old Justin, who's so in the closet at this point about every aspect of that, right?
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And it rocked my world, and it was like, just having so many of my friends immediately turn their backs on me, having a select few stand by my side, and all of these different things, and just being like, as soon as I go away to college, I'll never do this again, this is a phase, this is a weird temptation, and I'll get over it, and it'll be fine, blah blah blah, not the case, right?
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Because, you There are certain parts of your identity and yourself that you can't just turn away forever.
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And so slowly getting more accepting of myself, let alone other people's acceptance of me, that wasn't even a concern.
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Like, I am very fortunate and blessed to have parents and family who are incredibly accepting.
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Them, like, kicking me out in those kind of worst case scenarios was never a thought.
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It was always more about.
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Me accepting myself and feeling comfortable enough to do things and like pushing aside my own like inner demons to like experiment in things in a public way.
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The first time I did nail polish, it was the darkest colors possible.
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Like it can never be a shade of pink.
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It can never be a bright color.
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It had to be like black at first.
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That way, God forbid, I'm in a gas station and some guy is like, why are you painting your nails?
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I could be like, it's metal, dude.
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Like, I don't know that I would have some sort of excuse.
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As if I need one and then like anything, any, any form of gender expression has always been a huge challenge for me to find the courage to do that.
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And I'm was hoping that this character would kind of nudge me along to accept the more inner desires to present more feminine in different aspects.
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I think that's kind of where it came from.
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Yeah, at the point that you built this character or design this character, where were you in your gender journey?
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Jesus this was probably like a year ago.
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So like a lot further than in the past or something like that, like this character, isn't that old of a creation, but still to this day, I mean, there are times where depending on where I'm going, I just recently, maybe like two weeks ago, three weeks ago, came back from a high school, like a friend that I grew up with in elementary school through high school, we were super close, always considered each other best friends and stuff like that.
00:11:24.068 --> 00:11:50.034
He comes from a very religious Christian household and when I went to his wedding, I didn't paint my nails because I thought it would make me feel more comfortable and it's such a sad thing that I was willing to eat that part of myself to make other people feel more comfortable because that's in reality what it is, is making other people feel more comfortable and I ended up Just feeling like I was lacking a part of myself in this very simple way of expressing my own gender.
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Because, I mean, painting your nails doesn't have to be anything.
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It doesn't mean that you're non binary or anything like that, right?
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Like, how you personally perceive gender expression is up to the individual, but like, for me doing that was like a big eye opener of being like, whoa, maybe this friendship isn't all it's cracked up to be if I feel like I have to do this.
00:12:07.304 --> 00:12:07.955
Yeah.
00:12:07.985 --> 00:12:15.860
So, I think, yeah, it was just, Even to this day, I'm still always in this constant battle with myself and my own, like, sort of anxiety.
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Always thinking about worst case scenarios, which is how my anxiety manifests.
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The example of a guy at a gas station wanting to, like, fight me because I have a rainbow pride flag or some shit It's been a lot of that and like slowly feeling more and more comfortable being myself.
00:12:31.309 --> 00:12:54.730
And it's been honestly, the, I've been so lucky in this little niche of the TTRPG community that we're in, like a lot of us little creators and stuff like that, like all from the, so many people that I met through that January pledge drive for Palestine, I've just met so many beautiful individuals who already passed that super low bar of being against genocide.
00:12:55.125 --> 00:12:59.144
And then from there being like, wow, there's so many other people.
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And I get to introduce myself as Justin non binary they, them.
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And it's so much easier when they, that's like the first interaction, as opposed to being like, I know you've known me for 30 years as this, but now I'm this, or I've always been this, but now I'm publicly this or whatever.
00:13:15.644 --> 00:13:24.114
But like, that was the call for Jessica Jeroux pushing myself in a very safe and not very dangerous way of just being like, let's explore this.
00:13:24.595 --> 00:13:31.004
I've played female characters in the past and femme presenting characters and stuff like that, but never specifically a trans one.
00:13:31.054 --> 00:13:43.744
And so I wanted to explore that space a little bit as a non binary person and somebody who wants to deeply on the inside present slightly more femininely, but has never had the courage to do so.
00:13:44.043 --> 00:13:49.543
The idea of me wearing a skirt in public, there's a part of me that's like, Oh, that sounds incredible.
00:13:49.970 --> 00:13:53.159
And then there's another part of me that's like, that is so scary.
00:13:53.200 --> 00:13:54.840
I cannot even imagine.
00:13:54.889 --> 00:13:59.440
Hopefully Jessica Jeroux will push me over the hump a little bit and we can figure some things out.
00:14:01.059 --> 00:14:07.448
So I think it is a fascinating choice to play a trans woman in Drow society.
00:14:07.700 --> 00:14:12.269
I just want to give a brief shout out to a podcast called The Slovenly Trulls.
00:14:12.289 --> 00:14:18.129
They did a mini series essentially on the problematic nature of drow society.
00:14:18.179 --> 00:14:19.658
It's a great listen.
00:14:19.659 --> 00:14:25.139
You should all go and don't drop everything right now, but go later and listen to that podcast.
00:14:25.554 --> 00:14:32.485
Give me a very quick breakdown or primer on why there's such a gender divide in Drow society.
00:14:33.544 --> 00:14:46.174
So my understanding of it is that some of it stems down, as is true with a lot of Forgotten Realms stuff, like the reason that for some reason in that lore, orcs are inherently evil.
00:14:46.174 --> 00:14:48.144
Like if you're born an orc, you're evil.
00:14:48.195 --> 00:14:53.894
And that's just kind of the way it is, unless you're that one in a million Drizzt Do'Urden who stands alone.
00:14:53.955 --> 00:15:00.529
It has a lot to do with the gods, and like, the pantheons that the Forgotten Realms uses.
00:15:00.568 --> 00:15:04.960
I believe that a lot of the Drow society customs come from Llolth.
00:15:05.409 --> 00:15:09.078
This like, spider queen, this evil, somewhat chaotic.
00:15:09.129 --> 00:15:14.948
Chaotic in like the more, not in like a D&D alignment way, but chaotic in like real world ways.
00:15:15.110 --> 00:15:16.789
That's my understanding of it, at least.
00:15:16.870 --> 00:15:37.000
As soon as I kind of like got the bag of, okay, this is kind of what it was like, I don't do a ton of research past that, because I'm always like, same thing with like orcs being evil, or drow, specifically the dark skinned elves being evil, and all these different things, and like slavery is huge in Forgotten Realms, and always just being like, no, I'm not going to use that actually.
00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:39.309
I'm going to change that, because I don't like it.
00:15:39.500 --> 00:15:40.509
That's my understanding of it.
00:15:40.509 --> 00:15:41.769
It's very superficial.
00:15:42.054 --> 00:16:22.654
I just know that in the society, women are normally in positions of power, they're normally like the high priestesses, they have a lot of magic and stuff like that, and a lot of the men happen to be more like soldiers, it's almost like bees in a way, except bees usually have like the one queen, but it's kind of like that, where, you know, there's like the drones, the soldiers, they go out and they do the fighting and stuff like that, they can be on the front lines, whereas the women are the ones who are kind of controlling society, And in these positions of power within each household, and also these, like, priestesses of Llolth, and I think maybe some of it has to do with the fact that Llolth is always identified or presented as a female deity.
00:16:23.004 --> 00:16:30.804
Maybe that has something to do with it, but past that, if there's a deeper thing, I would go to Slovenly Trulls because it's not coming from me.
00:16:31.855 --> 00:16:34.514
Yeah, well, and this is all coming from writers.
00:16:34.514 --> 00:16:38.504
It's not like there's some sort of inherent way that drow are that.
00:16:38.725 --> 00:16:39.684
Cannot be changed.
00:16:39.684 --> 00:16:52.945
Obviously things are changing and yeah, you know, and there were terrible sexist reasons that they did it Yeah, this was you know, a choice that people made and it's interesting that whenever they build a matriarchy, it's evil.
00:16:53.004 --> 00:16:54.325
It's automatically evil.
00:16:54.364 --> 00:16:58.274
There's not a society ruled by women That's not like problematic.
00:16:58.274 --> 00:16:59.024
That's so true.
00:17:00.475 --> 00:17:02.134
I mean, maybe the Rashemon.
00:17:02.695 --> 00:17:27.930
I don't know that much about them But yeah, so I think it's interesting, both of us knowing that it's a problematic trope, not something we should really play into, but you're building a character that very specifically relates to that trope, meaning that in the game, you would need to have this society built in this very stratified way in order for the character to be related to that.
00:17:27.940 --> 00:17:31.269
I mean, I think that's one of the most interesting parts about the character.
00:17:31.555 --> 00:17:32.805
As far as I know them so far.
00:17:32.825 --> 00:17:33.484
Yeah, true.
00:17:33.615 --> 00:17:38.634
How do you feel about, like, coming to the table where that's something that exists in the world?
00:17:38.674 --> 00:17:39.704
That's a great question.
00:17:39.744 --> 00:17:58.029
I think that the way we were planning, because I had had discussions with the game master of that particular campaign that never was, I think the way that we were going to handle it is very like, this society exists, you know, And it's over there and I have left that society.
00:17:58.059 --> 00:18:10.419
And so there wasn't going to be a ton of mentions to it, or there wasn't going to be a lot of my character having a side quest where I go back home and we check it out and say, Hey mom and dad, I'm home now.
00:18:10.419 --> 00:18:12.190
I'm Jessica or something like that.
00:18:12.279 --> 00:18:12.710
Yeah.
00:18:12.749 --> 00:18:20.019
I think it was a little loose and fast with how we were kind of playing with it in a very like, you know, kind of in like a superficial way.
00:18:20.019 --> 00:18:21.398
Like it's part of my backstory.
00:18:21.430 --> 00:18:45.609
This is how I grew up and then I entered the let's call it like the modern world where other societies have been way more welcoming and it was also I think the game master was using ooh boy Call of the Netherdeep like one of the Critical Role settings and there are parts of that setting because Matt Mercer is much more accepting than the old school writers of Forgotten Realms where there are trans and non binary characters and stuff like that.
00:18:45.609 --> 00:18:54.454
So it was just like, here's a mention of the old world where gender was huge and like societal norms and all this stuff and that's in the past and this is the future.
00:18:54.484 --> 00:18:56.714
So I think that's kind of how we were handling it.
00:18:57.315 --> 00:19:03.784
I could see in Drow society that transitioning to a woman could be seen as social climbing.
00:19:03.844 --> 00:19:04.973
Yeah, certainly.
00:19:04.983 --> 00:19:09.484
Do you think that that was the reaction that Drow society had to Jessica?
00:19:09.904 --> 00:19:18.013
Did Jessica transition while she was in Menzoberranzan or in Drow society, or was it just a thing that she wanted to do?
00:19:18.055 --> 00:19:24.055
I think the way that I wrote it in the backstory was that she had begun experimenting.
00:19:24.085 --> 00:19:29.125
Like, the small ways that you can experiment with gender expression and gender identity.
00:19:29.378 --> 00:19:45.249
That aren't big deal things like taking hormones or surgery or something like, kind of very small things like, for example, the way you dress or something like that, like certain mannerisms that you can try on or even like name changes or pronouns or like small little things.
00:19:45.289 --> 00:19:57.259
And then because she's a wizard, I was going to introduce some like very basic low level spells, maybe even like disguise self as like a way to sort of experiment with expression.
00:19:57.634 --> 00:20:23.730
And then being like caught having that nightmare experience of oh my gosh I'm not ready for the world to see what I feel like on the inside and now they have and it was abrupt and it was because that it mirrors my experience that I talked about earlier I came out as bisexual first and then non binary like as I fully came to understand sexuality and gender at least for me I didn't come out as bisexual until I was 30 and then non binary at like 32.
00:20:23.779 --> 00:21:01.969
I'm 33 now, so like, not that, not that long ago, you know, like, uh, pretty late in the game for some people, that nightmare experience in high school potentially pushed me off of fully accepting myself for years, for like over a decade, if not more, so I think that was part of it, and then just having her kind of experiment a little bit at home, get caught and then just come to a head of being like these people are not going to understand me like they're too blinded by their own sort of cognitive dissonance of like this is how gender is supposed to work and I can see that they're wrong and that I don't fit within these binaries.
00:21:02.214 --> 00:21:06.954
And so I'm going to leave keeping in mind that like elves age differently in D&D and stuff like that.
00:21:06.954 --> 00:21:10.954
And I kind of like put it on to human year perspective just for this ease.
00:21:11.244 --> 00:21:15.193
She leaves around like 15, 16 and she's on her own.
00:21:15.194 --> 00:21:15.644
Very young.
00:21:15.663 --> 00:21:16.683
Yeah, yeah, yeah,
00:21:16.684 --> 00:21:16.914
Yeah.
00:21:16.914 --> 00:21:16.933
Yeah.
00:21:16.934 --> 00:21:20.564
Navigating through the underdark at 15 or 16.
00:21:20.644 --> 00:21:21.224
Pretty much.
00:21:21.224 --> 00:21:28.984
I mean, yeah, she goes through the underdark, but then pretty quickly goes above ground because like that was always a big thing that I found in Drow society with R.
00:21:28.984 --> 00:21:29.085
A.
00:21:29.105 --> 00:21:39.444
Salvatore specifically, like the Drizzt books is like, there's such a big othering of the upper world versus the underdark, like a lot of like, you, those top siders, you can't trust them.
00:21:40.075 --> 00:21:43.324
So like, of course being like, well, I can't even trust my own family.
00:21:43.375 --> 00:21:44.028
So yeah.
00:21:44.299 --> 00:21:45.459
Let's see what's up there.
00:21:45.509 --> 00:21:51.009
And so having her kind of explore that pretty quickly and like having there be this huge disconnect.
00:21:51.199 --> 00:21:52.219
I'm just thinking of this now.
00:21:52.219 --> 00:22:00.429
It's interesting that she's a time wizard specifically because there's such an interesting disconnect between the past and the future for Jessica.
00:22:00.578 --> 00:22:03.719
I, as the creator of Jessica didn't give her a dead name.
00:22:04.065 --> 00:22:09.505
There is no male associated name of when that Jessica was given at birth.
00:22:09.515 --> 00:22:11.375
I didn't even come up with one intentionally.
00:22:11.384 --> 00:22:12.115
There is none.
00:22:12.144 --> 00:22:13.193
It will never come up.
00:22:13.194 --> 00:22:16.644
I didn't want to explore having the character deadname her.
00:22:16.663 --> 00:22:17.355
Like, no.
00:22:17.423 --> 00:22:18.173
We're not doing that.
00:22:18.253 --> 00:22:18.584
Yeah.
00:22:18.584 --> 00:22:19.605
There is no deadname.
00:22:19.605 --> 00:22:20.964
It's just Jessica Jeroux.
00:22:20.983 --> 00:22:23.244
And that name specifically, the name Jessica.
00:22:23.509 --> 00:22:26.460
Now it's the name of my cat, which is hilarious, but like,
00:22:27.628 --> 00:22:29.250
Is your cat like dark gray?
00:22:30.109 --> 00:22:32.398
She is gray and white actually.
00:22:34.609 --> 00:22:42.409
So my name is Justin, but my entire family from the time I was pretty much born, call me Jessy with a Y at the end specifically.
00:22:42.789 --> 00:22:45.079
So my whole family calls me Jessy.
00:22:45.128 --> 00:22:50.719
Growing up in kindergarten, all through high school, everybody called me Jessy.
00:22:50.740 --> 00:22:52.719
That was my name for all intents and purposes.
00:22:53.179 --> 00:22:58.979
It wasn't until college, when I thought I was gonna make this big change, I wasn't gonna do that gay stuff.
00:22:59.380 --> 00:23:00.450
Which is so stupid.
00:23:00.940 --> 00:23:05.710
Looking back on it, I changed to Justin and I've been rocking Justin ever since.
00:23:05.730 --> 00:23:08.630
And I do love the name Justin, no shade to it whatsoever.
00:23:08.670 --> 00:23:21.838
Obviously I would, I would change it if I didn't like it, but I remember so distinctly being bullied so much of my life because people would call me Jessica because Jessy, it's just one jump for a bully to make.
00:23:22.328 --> 00:23:24.138
Oh, your name's Jessy, Jessica.
00:23:24.179 --> 00:23:25.249
That's a girl name.
00:23:25.450 --> 00:23:26.460
I had big buck teeth.
00:23:26.470 --> 00:23:27.740
They would call me girl squirrel.
00:23:27.769 --> 00:23:28.529
What the hell is that?
00:23:29.984 --> 00:23:30.865
What a mean thing.
00:23:31.924 --> 00:23:51.325
And so, this idea of the name Jessica and Jessy and stuff like that has such a deep place, like, in my own psyche and, like, memory and, like, trauma and stuff like that, that it's, it was the easiest first name to come with when it came to what name would this trans character be that I'm sort of vicariously living through in a way.
00:23:51.549 --> 00:23:52.989
Which I don't often do.
00:23:53.148 --> 00:23:55.339
I don't often put myself into characters.
00:23:55.388 --> 00:23:59.709
Or if I do, it's like small stuff like, this character doesn't like pineapple on pizza.
00:23:59.849 --> 00:24:00.749
Tiny silly goofs.
00:24:00.769 --> 00:24:09.169
This is like one of the few times that I'm like truly putting in deep aspects of myself into a character, which is why it's such a shame that I didn't get to play them.
00:24:09.679 --> 00:24:11.499
Hopefully we will play her later.
00:24:12.068 --> 00:24:15.618
How did Jessica start becoming a wizard?
00:24:16.204 --> 00:24:17.214
What a good question.
00:24:17.244 --> 00:24:36.334
I think that part of it, so it's a little bit two fold, I like the idea of, in Dungeons and Dragons, 5th edition specifically, that's the edition that I'm the most comfortable with, and also when I started playing, so I don't know a ton about older editions, but my understanding is that wizards get their magic from study, right?
00:24:36.394 --> 00:24:40.604
They read books, and that's how they get it, that's why they're intelligence casters, blah blah blah.
00:24:40.624 --> 00:24:53.625
But, I also like the idea of wizards having almost in a sorcerer like way, having like an innate ability to touch magic and I think like Forgotten Realms refers to it as like the weave.
00:24:53.683 --> 00:25:02.414
I don't know, but the idea that there has to be something like in there in order for you to start studying and then maximize your output.
00:25:02.453 --> 00:25:12.704
And so I think that was part of it is like having how rare it is to have a drow who does magic and is also not biologically, I suppose, a female.
00:25:12.704 --> 00:25:12.773
I don't know.
00:25:12.964 --> 00:25:18.564
And then, tapping into that, I picked time magic first and foremost because I think it's cool.
00:25:18.594 --> 00:25:18.974
I think
00:25:20.094 --> 00:25:21.204
It is very cool.
00:25:21.244 --> 00:25:23.753
The idea of time magic is just cool.
00:25:23.794 --> 00:25:25.494
So, I wanted to explore that.
00:25:25.544 --> 00:25:37.124
And it's also, like, very unique to the setting that the Exandria, like, the Critical Role setting, like, that's where Matt Mercer introduced chronurgy magic as, like, a mechanic in the game.
00:25:37.434 --> 00:25:39.134
So, that had a big part of it.
00:25:39.184 --> 00:25:41.534
Yeah, it was really to just change her circumstances.
00:25:41.575 --> 00:25:47.694
It was to do things that in modern society, we have millions of different things to provide for gender affirming care.
00:25:47.724 --> 00:25:54.414
And I imagine that in most fantasy medieval ish time period societies, they don't have a ton of things like that.
00:25:54.424 --> 00:25:58.314
They don't have hormones or blockers or different things of that nature.
00:25:58.615 --> 00:26:02.884
And that's where magic steps in, is what I was kind of going for, I think.
00:26:02.904 --> 00:26:04.763
How does that relate to time for you?
00:26:05.470 --> 00:26:10.200
Well, I think the time thing is so interesting for several reasons.
00:26:10.200 --> 00:26:14.349
I think there's some like deep reasons that I wanted to explore time magic.
00:26:14.380 --> 00:26:16.409
There's the superficial reasons, which I already went over.
00:26:16.460 --> 00:26:21.500
It's cool and it is in the setting, but then it's a lot of like, I came out so late.
00:26:21.509 --> 00:26:23.148
What if I had come out earlier?
00:26:23.249 --> 00:26:30.390
How different my life would look if I could go back in time and change things and regrets and exploring all of those facets of time.
00:26:30.784 --> 00:26:48.974
As well as like, I found like a very interesting through line that I personally experience, and then I found it also to be true with a lot of trans femme individuals or non binary individuals where like, you come out a little bit later in life, late 20s, 30s, something like that.
00:26:49.513 --> 00:26:53.115
And the first thing you kind of want to do, and this is going to sound interesting.
00:26:53.144 --> 00:27:00.124
The first thing you kind of want to do is dress like really slutty because you didn't get to explore femininity in your teens.
00:27:00.174 --> 00:27:08.204
And so now's the chance to wear a tube top and fishnets and like seven inch pumps because you're like, God dang it, this is it.
00:27:08.244 --> 00:27:09.444
And then quickly you're like.
00:27:09.714 --> 00:27:10.574
I'm 32.
00:27:10.584 --> 00:27:12.423
Like, I can't do this.
00:27:12.424 --> 00:27:13.304
This isn't for me.
00:27:13.734 --> 00:27:17.503
But, like, I found that interesting thing of, like, lost time.
00:27:17.763 --> 00:27:26.174
The idea of, like, I'll never know what it's like to go through certain things as a femme presenting person in high school, for example.
00:27:26.184 --> 00:27:27.933
Like, I'll just never experience that.
00:27:28.335 --> 00:27:32.275
So I think that's where time comes into play as a really interesting thing.
00:27:32.305 --> 00:27:34.615
But that isn't all true for Jessica.
00:27:34.644 --> 00:27:40.954
Like Jessica also has her own like in character in world practical reasons for being into time.
00:27:40.954 --> 00:27:50.255
And part of that has to do with like in the world of Exandria, there's a lot of really interesting ancient events and ancient history and stuff like that.
00:27:50.265 --> 00:27:53.065
For example, there's one civilization called Aeor.
00:27:53.444 --> 00:27:59.944
They're ancient, but they were also highly advanced when it came to like, the sciences, and stuff like that.
00:27:59.944 --> 00:28:00.765
But then they fell.
00:28:00.795 --> 00:28:20.634
So the idea of being a sort of archaeologist with access to time magic, and how interesting that profession would be, when you can actually like, get high enough level where you could Maybe even potentially go back in time and see things firsthand have that Jurassic Park moment of like turning the head and seeing the dinosaur.
00:28:20.654 --> 00:28:30.115
I just think that's so cool and then like putting a real world spin on that exact thing is like a lot of the gender binaries.
00:28:31.005 --> 00:28:41.204
Societal norms when it comes to men and women and stuff has so much to do if you look historically with like Colonialism and imperialism and stuff like that.
00:28:41.214 --> 00:29:09.990
Like if you look at a lot of like ancient societies They were compared to what some of our societies are doing today They were way ahead of us when it came to gender ideology, you know, like You look at Native Americans when it comes to Two Spirit, you look at Aotearoa or New Zealand, like, what their different societies were doing, Aboriginal communities in Australia, like, there's so many examples of people exploring gender in so many vast and interesting, diverse ways.
00:29:10.029 --> 00:29:15.079
And then white explorers came along and were like, actually, men wear pants.
00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:17.789
And it's just like, God dang.
00:29:18.559 --> 00:29:21.509
The person has a sword, they must be a man, right?
00:29:21.549 --> 00:29:22.319
Exactly.
00:29:22.430 --> 00:29:25.529
The two women in the grave together, they must be roommates, right?
00:29:28.079 --> 00:29:29.180
They must be roommates.
00:29:29.470 --> 00:29:30.119
Oh my gosh.
00:29:30.539 --> 00:29:30.920
Yeah.
00:29:31.369 --> 00:29:34.329
Stuff like that I think is also kind of interesting to look at.
00:29:34.875 --> 00:29:38.365
Yeah, I think that's kind of where it all came from is just time and history.
00:29:38.365 --> 00:29:50.365
And, you know, if you're, if you're talking like mechanics of D and D from a character sheet standpoint, like so many of the skills that fifth edition has, you know, acrobatics, athletics, stealth, all that stuff.
00:29:50.404 --> 00:29:52.085
So many of them are intelligence based.
00:29:52.115 --> 00:30:03.634
And I love as a DM, I love having players who don't dump stat their intelligence because I find that intelligence checks are such a good way to lore dump for me to like, yeah, just.
00:30:03.875 --> 00:30:15.924
Explode with exposition and all this information that I have been hoarding in my head for so long and so part of it is just like we're paying the favor of being like, hey, I'm really good at history checks.
00:30:15.934 --> 00:30:18.825
I'm really good at arcana and this and that or whatever.
00:30:19.315 --> 00:30:20.214
And being a wizard.
00:30:20.325 --> 00:30:22.414
Obviously, intelligence would be my best score.
00:30:22.595 --> 00:30:31.204
I think I rolled really high for strength and I found like a piece of artwork that had a drow woman tightening like wraps around her fist.
00:30:31.565 --> 00:30:44.775
Probably is meant to be like a fighter or a monk and I was like, Oh, what if my spell book, all of my spells are written on my wrist wraps as just like a cool way to flavor spell books and stuff like that.
00:30:44.805 --> 00:30:45.704
And that was it.
00:30:45.744 --> 00:30:56.545
I was like, I'm going to have a wizard who has like a 14 in strength, which is unheard of usually everyone dumps strength when it comes to wizards.
00:30:56.744 --> 00:30:57.535
Which makes sense.
00:30:58.035 --> 00:31:00.805
Is she going to be a mummy by the time she hits level 20?
00:31:00.805 --> 00:31:01.809
That's a good point.
00:31:01.809 --> 00:31:02.814
That's a good point.
00:31:02.815 --> 00:31:03.025
Probably.
00:31:04.434 --> 00:31:04.795
Yeah.
00:31:04.795 --> 00:31:05.265
Wow.
00:31:05.305 --> 00:31:09.075
I didn't think about how it would actually look to add spells to everything.
00:31:09.654 --> 00:31:13.345
It's like those letters where people just start writing in tiny, tiny, tiny font.
00:31:13.365 --> 00:31:13.654
Yes.
00:31:13.654 --> 00:31:15.315
Until you can barely read it.
00:31:15.315 --> 00:31:15.565
Yeah.
00:31:15.835 --> 00:31:19.924
It's like the, when you're in elementary school and you're writing a happy birthday card.
00:31:20.144 --> 00:31:27.974
And it's like a giant H, and then you're like, Oh no, and then you do birthday and you forget.
00:31:28.005 --> 00:31:29.575
Where am I going to go from here?
00:31:30.325 --> 00:31:32.634
It's a giant B and you're like, I did it again.
00:31:33.734 --> 00:31:34.214
I did it again.
00:31:34.865 --> 00:31:35.894
It's exactly like that.
00:31:35.894 --> 00:31:36.194
Yeah.
00:31:36.865 --> 00:31:37.934
What an interesting question.
00:31:37.934 --> 00:31:40.355
I honestly had not considered that at all.
00:31:40.599 --> 00:31:44.009
God, probably, I, I, Oh, gosh, what would I do?
00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:49.470
Yeah, maybe the wraps just keep going up her arm, or maybe they just get thicker.
00:31:49.509 --> 00:31:54.539
And so then it's just like these like gauntlets made of cloth around her fists.
00:31:54.819 --> 00:31:55.450
I don't know.
00:31:56.319 --> 00:31:56.799
Interesting.
00:31:56.799 --> 00:31:57.430
Awesome.
00:31:58.859 --> 00:32:01.210
You mentioned rolling for stats.
00:32:01.269 --> 00:32:03.900
Is that something that you usually do?
00:32:03.950 --> 00:32:04.940
Yeah, most often.
00:32:04.990 --> 00:32:06.640
Why is it that you like rolling?
00:32:07.089 --> 00:32:20.480
I like rolling because it, to me, in my experience, allows wilder decisions when it comes to character creation for those players who care more about mechanics.
00:32:20.490 --> 00:32:24.799
So like the min maxers, the optimizers, the power gamers, and stuff like that.
00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:26.630
It just allows more options.
00:32:27.009 --> 00:32:33.529
So like, for example, there are certain multi class options out there that are not as quote unquote optimal.
00:32:33.529 --> 00:32:39.049
So because they use so many different stats to make their builds effective or whatever.
00:32:39.390 --> 00:32:46.380
And if you're doing standard array or point buy or something like that, chances are you're not going to have three stats that are incredible.
00:32:46.670 --> 00:32:48.769
You're going to have one that's really good.
00:32:48.779 --> 00:32:50.579
And then a second one, that's pretty good.
00:32:50.904 --> 00:32:59.325
But with rolling, there's the potential to have like, you know, by level 5 you have 3 stats that are 18 I like that.
00:32:59.325 --> 00:33:00.404
I'm down for it.
00:33:00.605 --> 00:33:09.500
When I choose to run a game that cares more about mechanics and the rules, And it's more like I have a table of people who are about that.
00:33:09.750 --> 00:33:13.299
Then I do like having powerful characters.
00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:15.890
I'm going to give so many magic items away.
00:33:15.910 --> 00:33:17.039
It's unreal.
00:33:17.059 --> 00:33:19.750
Like other people would be like, they're only level three.
00:33:19.910 --> 00:33:28.240
Like you cannot give this very rare magic item and I'm giving it to them because then it allows me as the DM to go a little harder when it comes to the combat.
00:33:28.269 --> 00:33:29.859
Cause it's like, well, they're stronger.
00:33:29.900 --> 00:33:33.579
They can handle a vampire at this level because they rolled for stats.
00:33:33.579 --> 00:33:34.920
They have insane skills.
00:33:35.224 --> 00:33:38.904
I'm giving them all these extra little bonuses because I find it to be really fun.
00:33:39.325 --> 00:33:48.904
But every once in a while for like a one shot, like if it's kind of just like time, I might be like, we'll do like standard array, but even then I sometimes modify it.
00:33:48.914 --> 00:33:53.384
So instead of it being the traditional, like 15, 14, 13, whatever.
00:33:53.664 --> 00:33:56.414
It'll be like 17, 16.
00:33:56.424 --> 00:33:57.855
Like it'll just be a little higher.
00:33:57.884 --> 00:33:59.075
And it's for the same reason.
00:33:59.075 --> 00:34:00.625
It's just like, you guys are heRolls.
00:34:00.625 --> 00:34:01.964
I want you to have dope characters.
00:34:02.025 --> 00:34:10.414
And when I do the rolling thing, so I do the classic roll for D6, drop the lowest, but then I also do reroll ones.
00:34:10.494 --> 00:34:15.065
So anytime a one comes up, you can reroll it before dropping the lowest and everything.
00:34:15.094 --> 00:34:18.565
And then when you roll all six of your stats, you set them up.
00:34:18.585 --> 00:34:20.135
You're like, okay, my strength is this.
00:34:20.135 --> 00:34:20.965
My Dex is this.
00:34:21.005 --> 00:34:22.425
If you're looking at those and you're like.
00:34:22.824 --> 00:34:24.054
God, this kind of sucks.
00:34:24.094 --> 00:34:24.585
Do it again.
00:34:24.625 --> 00:34:25.215
I don't care.
00:34:25.355 --> 00:34:27.565
And you don't even have to tell me that you're doing it again.
00:34:27.585 --> 00:34:28.295
Just do it again.
00:34:28.614 --> 00:34:33.215
And if at the second time it still sucks and you're like, I don't think I'm gonna have fun with this character, do it again.
00:34:33.224 --> 00:34:33.905
Who cares?
00:34:35.005 --> 00:34:35.574
You know what I mean?
00:34:35.574 --> 00:34:44.864
Like, I'd rather, as long as you're not coming to the table with all 20s and everyone else doesn't have all 20s, as long as we're all kind of super powerful, then I'm down for it.
00:34:45.429 --> 00:34:58.039
So you came to creating this character with, I'm going to be a wizard, and when you roll for stats, are you rolling like the first roll is strength, the second roll, like it has to go in that order, or do you pick and choose?
00:34:58.099 --> 00:34:58.840
Pick and choose.
00:34:58.849 --> 00:35:00.329
So then you made a choice.
00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:02.599
to put that stat in strength?
00:35:02.889 --> 00:35:03.289
Yes.
00:35:03.329 --> 00:35:04.619
And why did you decide to do that?
00:35:04.659 --> 00:35:14.090
I think it was because I am the type of player who likes to go against type often, and likes to kind of go against the grain.
00:35:14.139 --> 00:35:23.980
And so if you're talking purely mechanics, and you're just going by like that way of playing D&D, it doesn't make sense for me to put a decent number in strength.
00:35:24.019 --> 00:35:27.570
It makes mechanical sense for me to dump stat strength.
00:35:27.610 --> 00:35:28.880
I don't need strength.
00:35:29.179 --> 00:35:32.920
I mean, a 10 would be incredible and just having a zero on that.
00:35:33.210 --> 00:35:35.130
There's only one skill check to strength.
00:35:35.150 --> 00:35:36.349
It's saving throws.
00:35:36.349 --> 00:35:39.940
Yeah, they're going to come up sometimes, but I have other means of dealing with those.
00:35:40.150 --> 00:35:45.480
There's going to be other characters in the group who will be the barbarian, the paladin, the strength based characters.
00:35:45.480 --> 00:35:46.980
There's no reason for me to be strength.
00:35:47.039 --> 00:35:51.389
And then I saw this one piece of artwork with the wraps and I was like, God, that's cool.
00:35:51.429 --> 00:35:52.144
And that was it.
00:35:52.144 --> 00:35:53.440
It was as simple as that.
00:35:53.440 --> 00:35:56.119
It was like, This mechanically doesn't make sense.
00:35:56.159 --> 00:35:57.170
That's why I want to do it.
00:35:57.210 --> 00:35:57.519
Heck.
00:35:57.519 --> 00:35:57.849
Yeah
00:35:57.849 --> 00:36:28.489
So what is Roll for Luck.
00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:36.889
Roll for Luck is a table of black storytellers, black joy, and lots of black chaos.
00:36:37.889 --> 00:36:46.119
As once said by one of our Roll for Luck players, Ava, who is a veteran at the table, Roll for Luck is a kitchen sink of chaos.
00:36:46.929 --> 00:36:58.289
Throw in some drama, toss in some laughs, and sprinkle in as many potential romantic plot lines as you can, and it'll make you consider the power of fate and luck.
00:36:58.739 --> 00:37:07.769
And how these two forces of nature dance together with both players and DM being able to play off each other in the cases of comedy and tragedy.
00:37:08.659 --> 00:37:10.010
So what are you waiting for?
00:37:10.489 --> 00:37:13.760
Check us out on every other Wednesday on Girls Run These Worlds
00:37:13.829 --> 00:37:15.940
00 PM Eastern.
00:37:16.610 --> 00:37:17.239
See you there.
00:37:32.650 --> 00:37:36.670
You mentioned multi-class classing and kind of how stats relate to multi classing.
00:37:36.960 --> 00:37:49.480
Coming with this character and starting with this strength stat, is that something, this is just one example, I mean, obviously, you decide differently for different characters, but, do you ever let that guide how the character progresses?
00:37:49.480 --> 00:37:57.280
So, for example, you're like, oh, I've got a wizard with pretty good strength, like, I'm gonna take a level in fighter, I mean, that would be a weird multiclass, but, could be interesting.
00:37:57.329 --> 00:37:58.190
Absolutely.
00:37:58.230 --> 00:38:06.210
I think, the way that I handle multiclassing, it depends on the campaign itself, and like, where we're starting.
00:38:06.485 --> 00:38:28.375
You know, I recently joined a game where we started at level 10, so that was like very easy for me to multi class because I don't have to go through the slog of like, God, I would love to be level 6 wizard, but now I have to be level 5 wizard, level 1 fighter, where it's like not getting a ton, because if you're starting at level 10, you can already build that multi class that's pretty effective right from the jump.
00:38:28.670 --> 00:38:39.190
When it comes to building the character from the ground up through the game and through all the sessions and the campaign and stuff like that, I kind of just let the story go where it's going to go.
00:38:39.559 --> 00:38:46.530
I've done that in the past where like, same thing where it's like mechanically it doesn't make the most sense for me to multi class in this way.
00:38:46.559 --> 00:38:55.289
If I'm a wizard, artificer uses intelligence, I have a decent strength, like maybe I go monk or something, it'll make my AC a ton higher.
00:38:55.320 --> 00:38:55.829
Who knows?
00:38:55.840 --> 00:38:57.099
Like there's so many options.
00:38:57.465 --> 00:38:58.454
But who knows?
00:38:58.525 --> 00:39:04.525
Maybe there's something that happens down the line where I need to make a deal with a patron and now I'm multi classing warlock.
00:39:04.554 --> 00:39:09.625
Or like, maybe for some reason my character gets real religious and I go cleric or something.
00:39:09.625 --> 00:39:10.094
I don't know.
00:39:10.875 --> 00:39:17.824
A lot of times, yeah, I'll just let the story dictate how things ought to go and then input the slightest bit when it comes to mechanics.
00:39:17.844 --> 00:39:18.644
Like a little bit.
00:39:18.655 --> 00:39:21.074
Cause I want my character to be good at what they're supposed to be good at.
00:39:21.380 --> 00:39:27.360
So I'm not gonna, like, totally hamstring myself, but for the most part, I'm story first, mechanics second.
00:39:27.800 --> 00:39:33.409
How do you feel about characters that are really just built about mechanics?
00:39:33.409 --> 00:39:35.599
So, I'll give you an example.
00:39:35.969 --> 00:39:46.460
There was a character in a game that I was playing in, and they started as a paladin, took a level in bard, took a level in warlock, took a level in sorcerer.
00:39:46.885 --> 00:39:49.144
And I'm just kind of like, when did you become a sorcerer?
00:39:49.144 --> 00:39:50.485
When did you go to Bard College?
00:39:50.574 --> 00:39:51.494
Who's your patron?
00:39:51.894 --> 00:39:56.905
So to me, I'm very much like, if you're multi classing, give me a narrative reason why this happens.
00:39:57.215 --> 00:40:03.585
I have a character in my game right now who's a sorcerer who multi classed into artificer, and it's gotta be like one of the worst multi classes.
00:40:03.625 --> 00:40:09.025
But it's fantastic because she did it because she met her father who was an artificer and she wanted to be like him.
00:40:09.025 --> 00:40:10.795
I think that's, It's beautiful.
00:40:11.175 --> 00:40:16.474
So what is your take on narrative multiclassing and mechanical multiclassing?
00:40:16.514 --> 00:40:16.824
Yeah.
00:40:16.855 --> 00:40:24.364
It's very rare that I'm gonna tell a player, you can't multiclass that way because story wise it doesn't make sense.
00:40:24.625 --> 00:40:29.750
But I am gonna try and push them towards, like, finding a narrative reason for this, you know?
00:40:29.750 --> 00:40:32.695
Like, I'm willing to say yes to almost anything.
00:40:33.045 --> 00:40:40.324
If you can give me some sort of dramatic reasoning behind it, I need like an RP reason for like, how you're doing this.
00:40:40.375 --> 00:40:47.394
I even asked that of my players who I've been playing with for years at our home, the table where I met Taylor at, that we're still playing for 4 years.
00:40:47.434 --> 00:40:53.565
Even when they level up, they're not even multi classing, it could just be like, you're cleric level 9 and now you're cleric level 10.
00:40:53.594 --> 00:40:57.934
Well, cleric at 10th level they learn Divine Intervention, that's like the new ability they get.
00:40:57.945 --> 00:40:58.795
What changed?
00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:04.010
We all know that mechanically, it's just, you got XP, or we hit a milestone, or whatever it was.
00:41:04.389 --> 00:41:10.980
But like, let's figure out something juicy for like, why now you can call on the gods before you couldn't, and now you can?
00:41:11.039 --> 00:41:14.059
And even then, it's only a percentile dice to figure it out?
00:41:14.219 --> 00:41:15.150
What is that like?
00:41:15.349 --> 00:41:22.539
And I like doing stuff like that, having the level ups be a little bit more meaningful, and I find the same to be true for multiclassing.
00:41:22.860 --> 00:41:26.849
Taylor and I do a bonus content thing on our Patreon.
00:41:26.880 --> 00:41:41.708
We call it Multiclass Mystery Mashup, where we draw classes using like a random wheel generator, and it's totally random, and it's, we have to use standard array, no magic items, and right now we're doing level 10.
00:41:41.989 --> 00:41:46.469
You gotta just come up with it on the fly and also come up with, like, who this character is.
00:41:46.480 --> 00:41:49.179
Why are they Paladin and Druid?
00:41:49.190 --> 00:41:50.760
What does that person look like?
00:41:51.050 --> 00:41:52.940
I have so much fun with it.
00:41:53.099 --> 00:41:59.730
Taylor keeps rolling, like, classes that already make sense together and it's annoying the hell out of me because I'm like, oh, great.
00:42:00.304 --> 00:42:19.043
Cleric Druid both wisdom like what the hell I'm over here with like Bard Druid I had to come up with which was fascinating though because I created a character who was a fisherman and that's kind of where the druid comes in and then the bard comes in I gave them the chef feat and they were like a hibachi chef.
00:42:19.335 --> 00:42:22.775
So it's like a performance and that's where the Bard came in.
00:42:22.775 --> 00:42:25.684
So this idea of like, I'm connected with nature.
00:42:25.715 --> 00:42:33.405
I have the fishing background and all this stuff, but then also I'm this like performative chef and that's kind of how it all tied together.
00:42:33.405 --> 00:42:34.514
And it was, it worked out great.
00:42:34.565 --> 00:42:35.335
I love that.
00:42:35.594 --> 00:42:38.324
I love that you're talking about narrative leveling.
00:42:38.335 --> 00:42:42.534
That's something that I personally am a huge fan of that.
00:42:42.534 --> 00:42:47.965
I don't see enough of in the games that I play is like, how did you gain these new skills?
00:42:48.364 --> 00:42:53.144
For example, I was playing a sorcerer and I think it's really interesting the question of, like, how do sorcerers level up?
00:42:53.155 --> 00:42:57.094
Because it's not like they picked a book and, like, read a new spell, you know?
00:42:57.164 --> 00:43:09.695
So, like, the way I played it was that she would see a monster cast a spell or she would see somebody cast a spell and be like, I'm going to figure out how to do that and just, in camp times, like, be practicing that thing that she learned.
00:43:09.885 --> 00:43:10.195
Yeah.
00:43:10.235 --> 00:43:15.369
You're playing a wizard, how do you think that Jessica gains new spells?
00:43:15.389 --> 00:43:17.380
Is she, like, happening upon a book?
00:43:17.389 --> 00:43:19.489
Is she meeting another wizard who gives her a spell?
00:43:19.579 --> 00:43:20.760
Is she going to a magic shop?
00:43:21.289 --> 00:43:23.309
Yeah, I think it's a collection of things.
00:43:23.309 --> 00:43:27.230
I think it would depend on what I'm gaining specifically.
00:43:27.269 --> 00:43:31.110
So, like, when I created the character, I think we were starting at, like, level 3.
00:43:31.204 --> 00:43:42.045
or something fairly low, and a lot of the spells that I had come up with, I obviously picked some chronurgy spells because of just the, I'm a chronurgy wizard, so I'm gonna pick some time spells.
00:43:42.074 --> 00:43:49.355
But then I also, I like to, I think sometimes this is like hamstringing myself, I like to pick spells that other people don't pick.
00:43:49.485 --> 00:43:53.505
So like, everyone picks fireball, so I'm intentionally not gonna pick fireball.
00:43:53.764 --> 00:43:57.315
Even though it's a great spell, like it is a good spell.
00:43:57.675 --> 00:43:58.655
I'm not going to pick it.
00:43:59.514 --> 00:44:07.414
So like, instead I have to pick all these really obscure spells and find really interesting, creative ways to use them and stuff.
00:44:07.465 --> 00:44:12.554
And so I was picking a lot of like earth based spells because I was an archeologist.
00:44:12.635 --> 00:44:14.554
So the idea of like mold earth as a.
00:44:14.989 --> 00:44:20.909
I want to say it's a cantrip, and different things of, uh, like that, Maximilian's Earthen Grasp, or something like that.
00:44:20.920 --> 00:44:22.429
I love that spell.
00:44:22.480 --> 00:44:28.309
And just using different Earth spells, and kind of focusing in on that element of, like, digging.
00:44:28.570 --> 00:44:31.579
Essentially, like, digging for the past, and for clues.
00:44:31.630 --> 00:44:35.449
So, it would depend on what spells I was going to learn, in the level up.
00:44:35.730 --> 00:44:40.900
If specifically, like, I can give an example vicariously through one of my players.
00:44:40.949 --> 00:44:53.460
Taylor's character worships the Storm Lord, so it's all about lightning and thunder and he's a Tempest Cleric mixed with a Storm Sorcerer, so he's got two storm things going on, essentially.
00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:55.769
So he cast a lot of lightning based spells.
00:44:55.809 --> 00:45:02.320
The wizard in the group, when they leveled up and they could finally cast sixth level spells, they chose the chain lightning spell.
00:45:02.360 --> 00:45:10.480
And the way that they explained their level up was that it was by watching their friend do all this lightning stuff and being like, that's incredible.
00:45:10.559 --> 00:45:12.079
I want to do some lightning stuff.
00:45:12.119 --> 00:45:12.519
Yeah.
00:45:12.559 --> 00:45:16.000
It would depend on the specific spells that I was going to be learning.
00:45:16.239 --> 00:45:17.760
Is how I would pick them up.
00:45:17.849 --> 00:45:23.679
Of course, some of them would just be like, trying to find as many scrolls as possible, so that I could just learn a ton of spells.
00:45:23.909 --> 00:45:36.250
Yeah, it would depend on like, really specifically like, if I can get to the level where you learn, it's fifth level, uh, Bigby's Hand, is a spell that I've seen other people use, and I've never had it as a player.
00:45:36.289 --> 00:45:38.889
And so, that would be something that would be really interesting.
00:45:38.889 --> 00:45:43.909
Maybe I have like a vision where I speak to, I love spells that are named after casters.
00:45:44.059 --> 00:45:45.360
I find it to be really interesting.
00:45:45.360 --> 00:45:49.760
So like, maybe I have a conversation with Bigby in like a dream sequence or something like that.
00:45:49.760 --> 00:45:55.130
And he like one on one teaches me the spell or something, although with Forgotten Realms and stuff, you never know.
00:45:55.139 --> 00:45:59.670
Cause half of those old school wizards, if you go straight by the lore, they might be really problematic.
00:45:59.670 --> 00:46:02.789
So I have to look up Bigby and see if he's an okay guy.
00:46:04.179 --> 00:46:04.510
Yeah.
00:46:04.510 --> 00:46:06.219
I know nothing about Bigby.
00:46:06.219 --> 00:46:11.349
It's like, I know about Tasha, about Elminster, but nothing about Bigby.
00:46:12.224 --> 00:46:14.175
You talked about getting scrolls.
00:46:14.175 --> 00:46:22.195
One of the ways that wizards learn spells is by transcribing a scroll into their spell book, but there's a gold cost associated with it.
00:46:22.195 --> 00:46:23.485
And I think it's really interesting.
00:46:23.485 --> 00:46:35.539
Wizards are like inherently gold seeking because they need it to get more spells and I don't know a person that ever plays a wizard that doesn't do it because they want all of the spells that they can possibly get.
00:46:36.239 --> 00:46:42.030
So how much is Jessica motivated by money and what is she motivated for?
00:46:42.030 --> 00:46:44.019
What is she interested in doing in the world?
00:46:44.019 --> 00:46:44.889
Why is she out there?
00:46:45.210 --> 00:46:50.619
I think that she is only motivated by money as far as it is a practical means to an end.
00:46:50.639 --> 00:46:54.679
She needs the money because, just like you said, it costs money to do these things.
00:46:54.760 --> 00:46:59.769
Back to Jurassic Park for some reason, that's my only archaeology reference, or paleontology in that case.
00:47:00.170 --> 00:47:04.329
The reason they say yes to go to Jurassic Park is because he offers them funding, right?
00:47:04.329 --> 00:47:04.639
Yeah.
00:47:04.639 --> 00:47:08.820
But it's not because they're like, we need the money, like, we love rich things.
00:47:09.090 --> 00:47:10.800
It's strictly like a means to an end.
00:47:11.190 --> 00:47:15.280
And I think that is kind of where Jessica is coming from is like, absolutely.
00:47:15.280 --> 00:47:21.960
She's trying to make as much money as possible, but only because that is how you get things like, that's how you get more spells.
00:47:21.969 --> 00:47:34.780
That's how, if I wanted to get travel to an old historical site, I would have to like book an airship or something like, and that costs money and I would need a team of helpers and that would cost money and all this different stuff.
00:47:35.170 --> 00:47:41.880
And so just like, like operating within the realm of capitalism where things cost money and I got to make money to do it.
00:47:42.139 --> 00:47:53.530
And then to the second part of your question, I think it comes down to exploring these past civilizations is really like a deep curiosity to understand what was lost.
00:47:53.764 --> 00:47:54.715
In my head at least.
00:47:54.715 --> 00:47:57.364
I don't know if this is just like my own headcanon or something.
00:47:57.505 --> 00:48:08.074
I liken a lot of these ancient civilizations, specifically in Exandria that Matt Mercer has written, including Aeor and stuff like that, to the Library of Alexandria.
00:48:08.125 --> 00:48:12.215
This idea of like, there's so much knowledge there and it was burned up.
00:48:12.545 --> 00:48:13.528
What if?
00:48:13.730 --> 00:48:20.329
We could discover some stuff or even like at a higher magic level like go back in time and like figure things out.
00:48:20.360 --> 00:48:23.579
I think that's kind of her biggest desire at this moment.
00:48:23.590 --> 00:48:35.199
I was like kind of leaving it a little open for things to connect with the actual setting and characters and plot line that the DM because this was like the DM it would have been her first time running a longer campaign.
00:48:35.230 --> 00:48:46.155
So like, I intentionally wasn't including a ton of like proper nouns in my backstory, you know, I was leaving it pretty open and loosey goosey to be able for us to collaborate together.
00:48:46.184 --> 00:49:03.005
It's just a deep curiosity of these ancient civilizations and trying to figure out what magics they possessed and their connection to time magic potentially or that setting also has gravity magic, and so that is another interesting concept, the relationship between time and gravity.
00:49:03.034 --> 00:49:05.034
Very Stephen Hawking's.
00:49:05.614 --> 00:49:08.255
Like, really trying to get into a brief history of time.
00:49:09.045 --> 00:49:15.204
You talked a lot about liking lore, and wanting to have a character who could get all the lore because they're intelligent.
00:49:15.434 --> 00:49:21.494
And you're also talking about your relationship to the lore, specifically of Exandria, of all these fallen civilizations.
00:49:21.525 --> 00:49:24.875
Did you start with, oh my god, this world has so much cool lore?
00:49:25.519 --> 00:49:28.619
Or do you start with, I want a character that can figure out lore?
00:49:28.679 --> 00:49:29.969
Great question.
00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:33.760
I think it maybe comes from having a DM experience.
00:49:33.820 --> 00:49:46.500
Having a character who is inherently intelligent, as like mechanically speaking, is helpful to newer DMs, just because it gives them the opportunity of like, Hey, Justin, make a history check.
00:49:46.510 --> 00:49:47.590
I was like, oh, okay.
00:49:47.639 --> 00:49:51.690
Actually, you guys know that this is what I meant to say or something like that.
00:49:52.610 --> 00:49:58.269
I always love having that, like in the game, having certain characters who are really good at certain skills.
00:49:58.340 --> 00:50:09.449
I find that intelligence and wisdom are the two that come up more often, but like having those players that you can fall back on to kind of like, you help me help you kind of thing in a situation.
00:50:09.710 --> 00:50:18.119
I always love to be a player at tables with new DMs and to be, if they're looking for it, it's always a discussion that we would have beforehand.
00:50:18.500 --> 00:50:24.090
If they're looking for advice, rules, whatever it may be at the table, like I'm there for that.
00:50:24.474 --> 00:50:27.114
And it can be in character or above board.
00:50:27.375 --> 00:50:30.065
Hey, Justin, can Mage Hand do that or something like that?
00:50:30.114 --> 00:50:35.775
I was fascinated by the idea of an ancient civilization that was also incredibly technologically advanced.
00:50:35.985 --> 00:50:39.585
The dichotomy of being incredibly futuristic and also ancient.
00:50:39.800 --> 00:50:42.159
And I just think that's a cool idea in general.
00:50:42.159 --> 00:50:44.949
So naturally I was like, how do I explore that?
00:50:44.989 --> 00:50:46.840
I'll make a character who cares about that.
00:50:48.119 --> 00:51:00.170
And then all these little tiny bullet points connecting to the nucleus of this character being like this deep, personal trans character with a tragic backstory and stuff like that.
00:51:00.429 --> 00:51:05.219
And then on the outer cotton candy surface being like, it sounds cool, we should check it out.
00:51:07.039 --> 00:51:08.190
It's got great flavor.
00:51:08.550 --> 00:51:13.690
Yeah, it goes back to like my desire of like just making people laugh, having fun.
00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:21.400
I know when I'm a DM, I love to include silly little things like that, like just dumb examples, fun little lore drops and stuff.
00:51:21.764 --> 00:51:28.605
And I know what it feels like sometimes when you put time and planning into something and they're like, we don't need to visit that.
00:51:28.835 --> 00:51:29.744
Let's leave the city.
00:51:29.744 --> 00:51:35.364
And you're like, Oh no, the museum, we're going to learn so much at the museum.
00:51:35.655 --> 00:51:38.335
Oh, I, yeah, my players did that to me once.
00:51:38.344 --> 00:51:51.065
It's like I built like an entire city and then they got there and I, I stupidly gave them a quest that took them out of the city, like something urgent and in two separate places too, so they had to split the party completely.
00:51:51.434 --> 00:51:55.784
And it was like, they came into town, they bought hot dogs, and they immediately left.
00:51:57.005 --> 00:51:59.105
And I had built this whole racetrack thing.
00:51:59.755 --> 00:52:01.795
It was sad, but I got to bring it in later, so.
00:52:01.835 --> 00:52:02.204
Yeah.
00:52:02.264 --> 00:52:04.594
They're gonna come back here, because, goddammit.
00:52:06.175 --> 00:52:10.545
That's what, yeah, I've learned along the way, is like, the concept of like, recycling things.
00:52:10.594 --> 00:52:10.885
Yeah.
00:52:10.905 --> 00:52:21.599
Or like, reusing things, or even upcycling things, because sometimes they come up so much later that you can be like, I'm going to add so many different elements to this racetrack now that weren't there previously.
00:52:21.599 --> 00:52:26.079
And I find that to be so fun, but in the time it feels like a mistake.
00:52:26.090 --> 00:52:27.610
It really is just like a learning experience.
00:52:27.619 --> 00:52:35.250
It's not a big deal, but like anytime you have a time urgency when it comes to a quest is like, dang it, why did I make it?
00:52:35.269 --> 00:52:36.679
They have to do it tomorrow.
00:52:36.690 --> 00:52:38.639
Like, why did I do that?
00:52:38.639 --> 00:52:40.579
That takes away all this stuff.
00:52:40.619 --> 00:52:43.730
I've done that all the time where they're like, we don't have time to go to the shop.
00:52:43.934 --> 00:52:45.304
We have to get this mission done.
00:52:45.304 --> 00:52:46.175
And you're like, damn it.
00:52:46.625 --> 00:52:48.304
I could have just, damn it.
00:52:50.684 --> 00:52:51.085
Yeah.
00:52:51.394 --> 00:53:01.994
I think it's really sweet the way you talked about building a character that specifically plays to helping the DM or playing to the strength of DM or what the DM wants to get out of the campaign.
00:53:02.045 --> 00:53:03.644
Is that something that you usually do?
00:53:03.684 --> 00:53:05.405
I know you don't get to play characters a lot.
00:53:05.755 --> 00:53:06.563
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:53:06.775 --> 00:53:12.614
It depends on, on what the DM is kind of going for or who the DM is, like how experienced they are.
00:53:12.614 --> 00:53:18.195
Or also with D and D fifth edition, I'm incredibly to the point where we have a podcast.
00:53:18.525 --> 00:53:21.094
I'm pretty experienced when it comes to that system.
00:53:21.125 --> 00:53:26.795
So like I feel confident that I can kind of just make a character to help other people out and stuff like that.
00:53:26.835 --> 00:53:30.420
I've been in one shots as a player where I'm like, hmm.
00:53:30.429 --> 00:53:31.500
There's something weird going on.
00:53:31.500 --> 00:53:35.719
Maybe I'll cast Dispel Magic and the DM will privately message me and be like, please don't.
00:53:35.760 --> 00:53:38.960
And it's like, hey, enough said no questions asked.
00:53:39.000 --> 00:53:39.920
I won't do that.
00:53:39.929 --> 00:53:41.539
That's easy for me not to do.
00:53:41.539 --> 00:53:49.409
And just eat that idea and be like, actually guys, I'm not going to cast a spell illusion and change the entire session.
00:53:49.409 --> 00:53:51.400
And it's like, hey, no worries.
00:53:51.420 --> 00:53:56.309
But then, if I'm playing in a system that I'm less familiar with, then it's a little different.
00:53:56.340 --> 00:54:01.199
I'm gonna kind of be a little bit more selfish and be like, alright, I'm picking the easiest things.
00:54:01.269 --> 00:54:13.905
The first time I play any new system, whether it's something like really crunchy like Pathfinder, or even something way more easy like Definitely Wizards, or like I played one where it was a Werewolf Bake Sale with Even Footing Games.
00:54:13.945 --> 00:54:14.235
Yeah,
00:54:14.934 --> 00:54:15.425
I love that.
00:54:15.434 --> 00:54:20.835
Those ones are like, if the system's that simple and stuff like that, then I can really just let loose and have fun with it.
00:54:20.985 --> 00:54:28.295
And I start thinking about like voices that I can do because I love to do voices, both as a DM and as a player.
00:54:28.335 --> 00:54:30.335
And it all comes back to making people laugh.
00:54:30.385 --> 00:54:42.934
If I'm going to play like a New Jersey, like a North Jersey from like Bayonne, Or something like that woman named Veronica who's a werewolf who hates the PTA leader or something like that.
00:54:43.344 --> 00:54:48.295
And I'm going to do like the very stereotypical, like,"oh my God, that is insane.
00:54:48.304 --> 00:54:57.605
I cannot believe she said that to you." And like, if I'm going to do that voice for the entire session, I think it depends on who, who the DM is, what the system is and stuff like that.
00:54:57.605 --> 00:54:58.385
But if I can.
00:54:58.744 --> 00:55:00.405
Yes, I love to do that.
00:55:00.474 --> 00:55:07.324
I also will balance that with like things that I like to do, which is me intentionally kind of being like, this is a new DM.
00:55:07.385 --> 00:55:15.065
I don't need to optimize my character to make this like insane, like, look at how much movement I have or how high my AC is.
00:55:15.065 --> 00:55:17.885
And I'm not doing that unless you're also a new player.
00:55:17.914 --> 00:55:18.945
If you have a new DM.
00:55:19.349 --> 00:55:27.219
I think that it's a little selfish to be like, I'm going to make my AC 32 because then I'll never get hit.
00:55:27.219 --> 00:55:30.139
It's like, guys, this person is just learning how to run the game.
00:55:30.510 --> 00:55:31.510
Cut him some slack.
00:55:32.690 --> 00:55:43.780
It's hard when the players have like imbalances like that, like when their armor classes vary so widely, just because like, at least for me, I try and rationalize it with like, how smart is this villain?
00:55:43.780 --> 00:55:45.199
Like, is this bad guy?
00:55:45.420 --> 00:55:48.679
Continually going to try and hit this person and never hit them.
00:55:48.690 --> 00:55:51.760
Like at what point are they going to be like, this guy sucks.
00:55:51.809 --> 00:55:53.159
I'm going to go hit the warlock.
00:55:54.519 --> 00:55:59.309
Or like, do I have to start designing encounters all based around that?
00:55:59.340 --> 00:56:04.420
Where it's like now there's a lot more saving throw stuff because, hey, your AC can be a million.
00:56:04.429 --> 00:56:06.869
When I have you do a saving throw, that don't matter.
00:56:06.920 --> 00:56:07.329
Yeah.
00:56:07.400 --> 00:56:12.489
And it also, I think a lot of the time, in my experience, it depends on how long the campaign is.
00:56:12.800 --> 00:56:16.389
Because that determines how many encounters there are.
00:56:16.409 --> 00:56:36.710
You know, the example of like every once in a while, I'll throw an encounter out there that exploits the weaknesses of the characters, but because it's a long campaign and I don't do it that often, it doesn't really feel like a dick move to do that, whereas if it were like a one shot and I was like, ha ha ha, the one combat, I'm going to use all your weaknesses.
00:56:36.710 --> 00:56:37.610
Like what a jerk move.
00:56:37.610 --> 00:56:38.110
Don't do that.
00:56:38.250 --> 00:56:38.619
Yeah.
00:56:38.619 --> 00:56:38.739
Yeah.
00:56:39.099 --> 00:56:46.650
In a long campaign, I am going to have some combats where it's like, hey, guy who worships the lightning God, these guys are immune.
00:56:48.190 --> 00:56:48.460
What's up.
00:56:49.349 --> 00:56:53.210
But that's because it's one combat in a slew of a thousand combat.
00:56:53.210 --> 00:56:56.289
So it is okay to kind of do that every once in a while.
00:56:56.300 --> 00:56:57.320
So that's how I've done it.
00:56:57.320 --> 00:57:00.769
Cause I also, they came into the campaign late.
00:57:00.809 --> 00:57:01.989
They were like a late addition.
00:57:02.010 --> 00:57:04.719
So they were already level 10 when he came in.
00:57:05.034 --> 00:57:19.614
He made a multi class fighter wizard, but specifically picked fighter first, because this gets into the weeds a little bit when it comes to 5e mechanics, but like, when you pick fighter first, you get proficiency in all armor and all weapons.
00:57:19.664 --> 00:57:21.505
Then, everything else is wizard.
00:57:21.525 --> 00:57:25.664
So, that means that this wizard can wear heavy plate mail.
00:57:25.675 --> 00:57:33.054
So, now I have a wizard with a shield, is a war wizard, Which means that when they concentrate on spells, their AC goes up by 2.
00:57:33.315 --> 00:57:37.344
With the shield spell, has the potential of hitting literally a 30 AC.
00:57:37.364 --> 00:57:44.144
Which is like, I've been able to hit it once or twice, but it was because they were versusing like legendary monsters that have like a plus 14.
00:57:44.355 --> 00:57:45.445
So it's like insane.
00:57:45.454 --> 00:57:51.445
But every once in a while, I've also had monsters be like, I can't hit this guy and just grapple them because their strength score sucks.
00:57:51.594 --> 00:57:52.735
So I'll just grapple them.
00:57:53.025 --> 00:57:56.224
And then have the monster be like, bye and just leave.
00:57:56.695 --> 00:58:00.835
And now your friends are alone and they don't have you as this incredible wizard tank.
00:58:00.855 --> 00:58:03.965
So it's just like trying to think of interesting scenarios and stuff.
00:58:04.025 --> 00:58:07.494
And that table is also like very experienced players.
00:58:07.505 --> 00:58:07.974
So.
00:58:08.224 --> 00:58:12.114
It's the table that I feel the most comfortable really going for it.
00:58:12.155 --> 00:58:15.025
This is the table where I would counterspell a healing spell.
00:58:15.114 --> 00:58:16.054
Or something like that.
00:58:16.054 --> 00:58:19.485
Or I would use Power Word Kill or like those really crazy ones.
00:58:19.494 --> 00:58:26.224
Like, this is the table where I don't feel bad doing those things because I have to try and kill their characters just for it to be competitive.
00:58:26.565 --> 00:58:26.934
Yeah.
00:58:26.985 --> 00:58:30.675
Because they're all such good players and they're at level 12 now.
00:58:30.724 --> 00:58:33.025
And so it's incredible what they're capable of.
00:58:33.380 --> 00:58:34.550
I have so much fun with it.
00:58:34.590 --> 00:58:36.250
I like the challenge a lot.
00:58:36.289 --> 00:58:38.139
And I say that also as like a player.
00:58:38.139 --> 00:58:44.900
It's why I like picking spells that aren't often picked, or like intentionally not picking spells that are often picked.
00:58:44.949 --> 00:58:46.449
No one's asking me to do that.
00:58:46.769 --> 00:58:50.800
I'm choosing to not pick Counterspell, even though it's a great spell.
00:58:52.860 --> 00:58:57.949
We've mentioned a few times the idea of power gaming or min maxing.
00:58:58.280 --> 00:58:59.619
What's your thought on that?
00:58:59.650 --> 00:59:02.230
I know there's a lot of contention around that issue.
00:59:02.280 --> 00:59:02.730
Mm hmm.
00:59:02.780 --> 00:59:03.489
I'm all for it.
00:59:03.530 --> 00:59:05.619
It just depends on the composition of the table.
00:59:05.650 --> 00:59:08.110
If the entire table are power gamers, heck yeah.
00:59:08.150 --> 00:59:10.815
If no one at the table is power gamers, Beautiful.
00:59:10.835 --> 00:59:17.965
If you have half the table power gamers, other half not power gamers, that is, I think, the only time that you're gonna run into issues.
00:59:18.255 --> 00:59:19.864
Any other way, I think I'm fine with it.
00:59:20.164 --> 00:59:30.025
If everybody's really, really good at coming up with these min max incredible combinations of things and having their character do a plus whatever to this, by all means.
00:59:30.255 --> 00:59:34.094
Because, as a DM, all I have to do is just change things on the back end.
00:59:34.135 --> 00:59:40.074
Monsters are a little bit stronger, the DCs are a little bit higher, I can still figure out ways to balance it, it's not a problem.
00:59:40.414 --> 00:59:44.664
It's only when there's a serious imbalance between players, I find.
00:59:44.724 --> 00:59:55.014
That's kind of where I stand on that, as long as everybody agrees to go hard, then let it rip, otherwise I'll straight up tell players like, hey, this isn't the game.
00:59:55.324 --> 00:59:56.804
This isn't the game where we're doing that.
00:59:56.855 --> 00:59:57.684
Take it easy.
00:59:58.724 --> 00:59:59.074
Yeah.
01:00:00.554 --> 01:00:06.434
It sounds like one of the ways that you challenge yourself as a player is by not building that kind of min max build.
01:00:06.434 --> 01:00:08.204
You're talking about a wizard with good strength.
01:00:08.469 --> 01:00:30.875
Yeah, I think it's, I've been playing the game for so long, and I don't get to be a player often and stuff like that, so of course there's like so many builds that I know in my head are like so optimal and are just gonna be so good at what they're supposed to be good at, and I'll save them for a one shot or something like that, but when it comes to any opportunity to play a character for more than one session, I want to get into the story of it.
01:00:30.905 --> 01:00:33.554
I want to get into the role play of it and stuff like that.
01:00:33.565 --> 01:00:38.065
And of course, if you're talking D and D fifth edition, the mechanics are important part of the game.
01:00:38.065 --> 01:00:40.925
It's why you're choosing that system over other systems.
01:00:40.974 --> 01:00:47.755
And so I want to explore the mechanics and use them as a prism to like bounce the story off of.
01:00:47.815 --> 01:00:54.105
So then it's, it comes down to not choosing the spells that make the most sense, like damage wise or something like that.
01:00:54.405 --> 01:00:57.184
But picking the spells that make the most sense for this character.
01:00:57.445 --> 01:00:59.425
Why would this character learn Fireball?
01:00:59.434 --> 01:01:01.485
You're an archeologist at a dig site.
01:01:01.485 --> 01:01:02.625
You don't want to damage things.
01:01:02.635 --> 01:01:04.144
There's no reason to pick Fireball.
01:01:04.184 --> 01:01:06.565
Maximilian's Earthen Grasp makes a ton of sense.
01:01:06.565 --> 01:01:07.764
You're moving things around.
01:01:07.764 --> 01:01:08.925
You're like moving the earth.
01:01:08.934 --> 01:01:10.054
Like that makes sense.
01:01:10.105 --> 01:01:12.215
I find it to be a little bit more interesting.
01:01:12.585 --> 01:01:26.704
But that's the interesting thing about Taylor and I relationship is that Taylor is the min maxer, the power gamer who's trying to be like, Well if I do two levels of this, and then three levels of this, and then if I pick up that feat, I'm unstoppable.
01:01:27.344 --> 01:01:27.695
Yeah.
01:01:27.985 --> 01:01:29.414
Why would your character do that though?
01:01:29.949 --> 01:01:30.619
He's like, I don't know.
01:01:30.619 --> 01:01:31.400
I'll figure it out.
01:01:31.869 --> 01:01:33.989
That's what makes us an interesting duo.
01:01:34.130 --> 01:01:36.000
We do feel so differently about that.
01:01:36.000 --> 01:01:40.369
Cause like he likes to quote unquote "break the game." That's the term used often.
01:01:40.389 --> 01:01:42.739
Whereas I like to break the lore.
01:01:43.090 --> 01:01:49.679
So like, if the lore says Firbolgs are always gentle giants, I want to play a Firbolg barbarian.
01:01:49.679 --> 01:01:50.679
What does that look like?
01:01:50.690 --> 01:01:51.829
Why is it different?
01:01:52.159 --> 01:01:58.380
That's where I love to come in and be like, okay, apparently dwarves are always like X.
01:01:58.804 --> 01:02:04.065
I'm going to play the one that's like, Y, and figure out why it's like that, why there is a difference there.
01:02:04.094 --> 01:02:05.425
I love doing stuff like that.
01:02:05.945 --> 01:02:13.135
Besides the gender question, which we've already talked about with Drow, is there anything else that you're kind of going against?
01:02:13.144 --> 01:02:14.894
Like in your example of the firbolg.
01:02:15.210 --> 01:02:19.329
When it comes to Jessica, I think, like, easy one is just the fact that she is physical.
01:02:19.360 --> 01:02:23.099
Like, she is strong and, like, can fist fight somebody.
01:02:23.110 --> 01:02:26.820
Whereas a wizard, normally, the trope is, like, a wizard being, like, oh, no.
01:02:28.699 --> 01:02:30.469
Like, not being able to do anything.
01:02:30.500 --> 01:03:01.500
And I think that's really fun and interesting to have a wizard who isn't barbarian strong, but, like, comparatively to a commoner, is, incredibly strong and like dexterous and stuff like that and having a focus on physical stats as opposed to putting everything else in like wisdom or constitution which because constitution mechanically would make a ton of sense you have concentration checks your health makes a huge difference to put points in there but what if I didn't put points in there and I put points and strength instead Yeah, I think the gender thing was a big thing.
01:03:01.539 --> 01:03:04.710
Having this archaeology background and stuff like that.
01:03:04.750 --> 01:03:08.860
Those are the main things, I suppose, that makes Jessica kind of go against the grain.
01:03:08.900 --> 01:03:10.750
It's one of my favorite things to do, especially as a DM.
01:03:11.280 --> 01:03:13.670
Our players right now are in the Shadowfell.
01:03:13.719 --> 01:03:41.295
And if you just go on like, any search engine and type in Shadowfell D&D, Every picture is like, shades of grey, desolate wasteland, it looks like the Badlands, but everything is dark and grey and dreary, and I was just like, what if, though, there's a whole western town in there, where everybody has snakes, for some reason, there's a saloon, a chapel, there's like, it's like an old western.
01:03:41.394 --> 01:03:42.670
In the middle of the Shadowfell.
01:03:42.670 --> 01:03:49.414
I think everyone there is like so polite and nice because how eerie would that be if you're like desolate hellscape.
01:03:49.804 --> 01:03:52.085
And then you come to this town where everyone's like, well, howdy.
01:03:52.085 --> 01:03:53.215
Hey, how are you doing?
01:03:53.275 --> 01:03:53.715
Welcome to Serpico.
01:03:55.815 --> 01:03:58.184
The pastor just is leaving the church right now.
01:03:58.184 --> 01:04:00.894
I remember my players being like.
01:04:01.019 --> 01:04:02.090
Something's afoot.
01:04:03.519 --> 01:04:04.659
Everyone is too nice.
01:04:04.679 --> 01:04:08.119
We're in the Shadowfell and I love playing on stuff like that.
01:04:08.730 --> 01:04:10.829
It's such a fun pastime of mine.
01:04:11.090 --> 01:04:13.210
The comedy potential is great.
01:04:13.210 --> 01:04:16.550
I, you've got to make a snakes on a plane reference at some point, right?
01:04:16.590 --> 01:04:18.389
I think somebody did at some point.
01:04:18.429 --> 01:04:20.539
There was some kind of, there's too many snakes.
01:04:20.960 --> 01:04:21.159
Yeah.
01:04:22.579 --> 01:04:25.599
You mentioned before that you're in a four year campaign.
01:04:25.889 --> 01:04:31.059
Personally, for me, it's like a longer campaign gives you more opportunities to explore and build on the character.
01:04:31.059 --> 01:04:32.800
Is that part of the draw for you?
01:04:32.809 --> 01:04:34.570
Do you like longer campaigns?
01:04:35.034 --> 01:04:36.375
What an interesting question.
01:04:36.414 --> 01:04:54.755
Yeah, I think when I started it, it was really just like, I have this idea for a campaign, and I know that it's not often you get to, as a player, and this was even coming from a place of not having a ton of experience, I knew how rare it was to have a game where you took a character from level 1 to level 20.
01:04:55.025 --> 01:04:55.664
That's rare.
01:04:55.795 --> 01:04:56.344
To do.
01:04:56.434 --> 01:04:57.204
Just in general.
01:04:57.550 --> 01:04:58.300
Let's do it.
01:04:59.170 --> 01:05:20.360
And so it started as just a challenge and like a proposition, a like Holy Grail kind of moment, this Mount Everest of DMing and then fricking thank gosh, for finding a group that has the consistency, the scheduling, and all of the beautiful things that not everyone gets to experience to be able to play this game for as long as we've been playing it.
01:05:20.735 --> 01:05:25.614
It was the first campaign that I ever wrote, which is why it has Forgotten Realms as like the base point.
01:05:25.614 --> 01:05:28.454
But then I just changed all the stupid stuff that I was like.
01:05:29.280 --> 01:05:33.559
You're going to meet an orc who like is a baker at the city and they're awesome.
01:05:33.820 --> 01:05:35.000
And just deal with that.
01:05:35.579 --> 01:05:35.980
Okay.
01:05:36.570 --> 01:05:41.980
Like there's none of this, like, I don't know, wood elves and high elves hate each other.
01:05:42.039 --> 01:05:43.019
Get the heck out of here.
01:05:43.019 --> 01:05:43.639
That's silly.
01:05:44.139 --> 01:05:44.420
Yeah.
01:05:44.420 --> 01:05:51.199
Exploring the characters has been so fascinating over this many years and having all of the NPCs really matter.
01:05:51.250 --> 01:05:59.219
I've almost cried at different sessions as I'm describing both intense, dramatic scenes, but also like really beautiful touching moments.
01:05:59.380 --> 01:06:02.429
Like, one of our characters married an NPC.
01:06:02.650 --> 01:06:06.190
My friend's character was like, We could die any day now.
01:06:06.219 --> 01:06:07.050
Let's get married.
01:06:07.130 --> 01:06:14.150
And was like, talking to the NPC and stuff, and then like, privately sent me like, this is what their walking down the aisle song would be.
01:06:14.440 --> 01:06:20.550
So I like, downloaded it into Roll20 and played it while I was describing it, And I found myself choking up.
01:06:20.644 --> 01:06:27.364
I was like, this is beautiful and meaningful and it wouldn't be like that if we didn't know these characters so intimately.
01:06:27.405 --> 01:06:30.445
So for those reasons, I love long campaigns.
01:06:30.494 --> 01:06:35.744
However, I also have ADHD and I like to explore a ton of stories.
01:06:36.030 --> 01:06:47.400
And staying put for too long is difficult, which is why as a brand or whatever Taylor and I have agreed that when it comes to our actual plays, we do not plan on doing a year long.
01:06:47.610 --> 01:06:49.260
That's just not what we're interested in.
01:06:49.539 --> 01:06:51.170
We want to tell shorter stories.
01:06:51.210 --> 01:06:52.969
Maybe in the future we'll like open it up.
01:06:52.980 --> 01:06:53.420
Who knows?
01:06:53.420 --> 01:07:02.679
But like right now, the longest we're planning on is like eight or 10 episodes and then shorter ones even also, because I want to explore so many different stories and stuff like this.
01:07:02.824 --> 01:07:14.425
And luckily, that four year long campaign in Faerun, because I'm changing so much of the lore, I am able to explore a lot of interesting, different things all in that setting.
01:07:14.605 --> 01:07:18.344
But also, my players are up for it, which helps a lot too.
01:07:18.434 --> 01:07:21.715
And they're good at feedback, which has been really nice.
01:07:21.835 --> 01:07:24.764
What works, what doesn't work, what do you guys want to do?
01:07:24.804 --> 01:07:26.445
That's always been really, really helpful.
01:07:26.474 --> 01:07:29.994
And using that home game as the litmus test.
01:07:30.250 --> 01:07:33.239
For a lot of things that I'll explore in future things.
01:07:33.420 --> 01:07:38.690
I have an idea of a Western game, but I've never done Western as like a vibe or a genre or whatever.
01:07:39.050 --> 01:07:48.210
This was my way of testing it out, was just being like, Can you have a town where it's just one road, a chapel, a general store, a saloon, and the sheriff's office?
01:07:48.260 --> 01:07:49.010
Like, is that it?
01:07:49.510 --> 01:07:50.769
And it was like, kind of.
01:07:50.820 --> 01:07:51.639
I kind of can.
01:07:52.590 --> 01:07:52.949
Yeah.
01:07:53.010 --> 01:07:53.530
I love it.
01:07:54.085 --> 01:07:55.934
What does Jessica look like?
01:07:56.025 --> 01:07:56.775
Ooh, incredible.
01:07:56.795 --> 01:08:00.295
Jessica, in some regards, is your typical drow.
01:08:00.315 --> 01:08:04.945
Has that sort of like, slate grey skin colour, paper white hair.
01:08:04.985 --> 01:08:13.335
And I always, as somebody who's done drag and stuff like that, but doesn't have the money to buy like, wigs like Trixie Mattel or some shit like that.
01:08:14.054 --> 01:08:18.145
All of the wigs that I own and stuff, you can't like, put them up.
01:08:18.194 --> 01:08:20.345
You put the lace front in the front and you put it on.
01:08:20.345 --> 01:08:24.284
You and then it's just long, but I've always had a fascination with messy buns.
01:08:24.595 --> 01:08:29.265
It's like such a specific feminine hairstyle that I'm such a big fan of for some reason.
01:08:29.435 --> 01:08:30.835
So that's a big part of it.
01:08:30.854 --> 01:08:37.845
Especially the idea of her being studied an archeologist, she needs to have her hair up for millions of reasons.
01:08:38.015 --> 01:08:47.145
And then doing that really like stereotypical, like almost librarian thing of having like a pencil in it or like a quill, I guess, in this case, I.
01:08:47.500 --> 01:08:48.109
Love that.
01:08:48.109 --> 01:08:49.329
So that's a big part of it.
01:08:49.970 --> 01:08:50.699
Messy bun.
01:08:50.739 --> 01:08:51.369
Pencil.
01:08:52.090 --> 01:08:56.470
There's like the trope of the woman being like, oh, I have to get to work now.
01:08:56.600 --> 01:08:57.699
Hair has to go up.
01:08:57.699 --> 01:08:58.689
Yeah.
01:08:58.689 --> 01:08:59.079
Yeah.
01:08:59.279 --> 01:09:01.039
There's something about that that I like.
01:09:01.069 --> 01:09:05.930
And then physique kind of has like, oh, athlete's body in many respects.
01:09:05.979 --> 01:09:08.800
I can't remember if I had her with red eyes or yellow eyes.
01:09:08.810 --> 01:09:09.710
I think it was red.
01:09:10.050 --> 01:09:14.710
But, red in the sense of like, just the same way that people have hazel eyes or blue eyes or something.
01:09:14.739 --> 01:09:17.079
Like, just the iris would be red.
01:09:17.180 --> 01:09:21.010
As opposed to like, the way sometimes a tiefling will have like, all red.
01:09:21.050 --> 01:09:29.989
And then, yeah, just kind of, because you're a wizard and you're not wearing armor or anything like that, kind of going in the direction of dressing almost like a monk.
01:09:30.350 --> 01:09:32.449
In D&D senses, specifically.
01:09:32.479 --> 01:09:35.279
So, like a martial artist, like, just having like, a tank top.
01:09:35.289 --> 01:09:39.159
Like, very much like, again, Jurassic Park comes to mind.
01:09:39.460 --> 01:09:43.039
I want to dress up like, oh no, what is her name?
01:09:43.050 --> 01:09:45.930
The actress who plays the blonde botanist.
01:09:45.989 --> 01:09:46.739
Laura Dern.
01:09:46.859 --> 01:09:47.930
Yes.
01:09:48.039 --> 01:09:49.899
I want to dress like Laura Dern.
01:09:49.939 --> 01:09:59.489
I want to have a tank top on, maybe a button down shirt that's kind of tied around the waist, high khaki shorts with like the socks and like boots.
01:09:59.529 --> 01:09:59.989
Yeah.
01:10:00.390 --> 01:10:00.649
Brilliant.
01:10:01.210 --> 01:10:02.310
That's what I'm looking for.
01:10:03.725 --> 01:10:05.225
What is her name in the movie?
01:10:05.225 --> 01:10:06.765
It's like Ellie Sattler.
01:10:06.795 --> 01:10:07.314
Yes.
01:10:07.314 --> 01:10:07.585
Dr.
01:10:07.585 --> 01:10:08.574
Sattler.
01:10:08.574 --> 01:10:08.594
Sattler.
01:10:08.595 --> 01:10:08.805
Yes.
01:10:08.805 --> 01:10:08.944
Yes.
01:10:08.984 --> 01:10:09.305
Yes.
01:10:09.385 --> 01:10:10.145
Absolutely.
01:10:10.175 --> 01:10:11.725
I was her for Halloween, actually.
01:10:11.755 --> 01:10:13.425
I did her for Halloween one year too.
01:10:13.765 --> 01:10:14.524
Oh, incredible.
01:10:15.185 --> 01:10:15.494
Yeah.
01:10:15.505 --> 01:10:17.414
My husband, uh, dressed as Dr.
01:10:17.414 --> 01:10:18.385
Grant and we dressed up.
01:10:18.385 --> 01:10:22.085
We had a one year old baby and we dressed her up as a dinosaur.
01:10:22.545 --> 01:10:22.604
Amazing.
01:10:23.574 --> 01:10:23.914
I love that.
01:10:24.255 --> 01:10:24.805
It was great.
01:10:24.885 --> 01:10:25.244
Yeah.
01:10:25.965 --> 01:10:33.765
Has she made any modifications besides dress to her body in order to more embody those feminine features?
01:10:34.154 --> 01:10:50.154
Yes, she has, however, the specifics of how that would have worked in the sort of weird time period that these fantasy games are kind of set in, I don't even know if we discussed it between myself and the DM.
01:10:50.215 --> 01:10:55.225
I don't think it really ever was like a, is there like a surgeon who did things?
01:10:55.255 --> 01:10:57.135
Is it purely magic.
01:10:57.185 --> 01:11:00.925
It's easy sometimes to fall back on and it depends on the scenario.
01:11:00.954 --> 01:11:01.984
Magic exists.
01:11:02.744 --> 01:11:03.604
Yeah, I don't know.
01:11:03.614 --> 01:11:08.975
Got a spell cast and now they look more outwardly the way that they feel on the inside or whatever it may be.
01:11:09.015 --> 01:11:16.088
But yes, there was definitely some changes made that would better reflect how Jessica wants to present.
01:11:16.579 --> 01:11:20.550
You talked about voice acting and liking doing voices.
01:11:20.640 --> 01:11:29.449
I've had a few trans guests on the show who have talked about the difficulty in altering their voice to match their gender identity.
01:11:29.479 --> 01:11:37.289
Do you imagine that being a part of her character or that just being a way you embody her voice differently?
01:11:37.779 --> 01:11:46.229
Yeah, I would have spent more time experimenting and like, for lack of a better term, like practicing with this particular character.
01:11:46.560 --> 01:11:50.869
Like, as you can imagine, as a DM, I'm playing femme presenting or female characters all the time.
01:11:50.979 --> 01:11:52.289
Like, they just come up naturally.
01:11:52.310 --> 01:12:04.710
And sometimes it's like, there are certain accents that I can do, like if I do a New York kind of Brooklyn accent or like a Southern Belle kind of character, it's easier for me to sound a bit more feminine because it's exaggerated.
01:12:04.710 --> 01:12:09.859
It's kind of like this hyperbole of being like, "Oh my God, sweetheart." Like it's easier for me to hit it.
01:12:10.204 --> 01:12:20.534
Whereas if I'm just trying to make my normal speaking voice more feminine, it's something that I've probably practiced by myself a thousand times for the sake of DMing and like voices and stuff.
01:12:20.814 --> 01:12:27.774
But I don't know if it comes down to like a thing of making so sure that it is not the butt of a joke.
01:12:28.055 --> 01:12:36.364
So I think when it came to Jessica, And a more feminine intonation on the voice or like a higher octave or whatever it may have been.
01:12:36.685 --> 01:12:47.395
Realistically, it probably would have been something that I found I would have practiced and I would have had some, uh, feedback and stuff like that because it's also something that I have to, and this is, I am putting this on myself a little bit.
01:12:47.435 --> 01:12:49.524
I like it to be something that I can maintain,
01:12:49.585 --> 01:12:49.914
Right.
01:12:50.185 --> 01:12:53.154
Like it's easy for me to do an Irish accent for a sentence.
01:12:53.204 --> 01:12:55.045
I can't do it for a whole conversation.
01:12:55.045 --> 01:12:55.914
I'm just not good at it.
01:12:56.720 --> 01:13:07.720
And it's the same with like voices when it comes to octaves and stuff like that, like what I can maintain and do in a way that also makes me feel comfortable so that I can explore and role play and stuff like that.
01:13:08.069 --> 01:13:10.409
It would be an interesting journey to figure out.
01:13:10.479 --> 01:13:14.510
It's definitely something that was on my mind though, is like, what am I going to do for this voice?
01:13:14.529 --> 01:13:22.079
What do I feel comfortable with just from a, how the voice sounds, not even including any kind of regional dialects or accents or anything like that.
01:13:22.305 --> 01:13:25.904
Because I wasn't sure if I was going to do her, like, British posh.
01:13:25.935 --> 01:13:28.604
Because I also, like I said, love playing against type.
01:13:28.965 --> 01:13:32.975
There's a stereotype, if you have that Southern drawl, that you're not intelligent.
01:13:32.975 --> 01:13:34.494
So that's like a silly stereotype.
01:13:34.515 --> 01:13:35.595
I want to play against that.
01:13:35.604 --> 01:13:40.524
What if she does have a very strong Southern drawl, but is highly intelligent?
01:13:40.534 --> 01:13:41.935
Or has a Brooklyn accent?
01:13:42.295 --> 01:13:45.524
It's like, oh my god.
01:13:46.265 --> 01:13:50.975
I think that's really funny, but it's definitely something that was on my mind was how she would sound.
01:13:51.024 --> 01:13:57.585
Cause I'm like that with every character and sometimes it's deep like this and sometimes it's literally like, that'd be funny.
01:14:01.074 --> 01:14:02.645
I'm really bad at accents.
01:14:02.645 --> 01:14:10.725
I can do bro and valley girl because I grew up in LA so it's very easy for me to just slip into that.
01:14:11.045 --> 01:14:15.670
But anything else, I mean, I just go like, High voice, low voice, quick voice, slow voice.
01:14:15.750 --> 01:14:16.569
Absolutely.
01:14:16.609 --> 01:14:17.670
Sounds like a Dr.
01:14:17.670 --> 01:14:18.350
Seuss book.
01:14:19.750 --> 01:14:20.199
It does.
01:14:43.140 --> 01:14:46.460
Jessica, what are you proudest of in your life?
01:14:47.069 --> 01:14:49.539
Well, what an interesting question.
01:14:49.569 --> 01:14:51.659
I would say, what am I most proud of?
01:14:51.710 --> 01:14:52.119
Goodness.
01:14:52.189 --> 01:15:04.039
I would say, I think I am most proud of recognizing when things need to change and also then taking the action to change those things.
01:15:04.380 --> 01:15:06.500
Y'all ever heard that serenity prayer?
01:15:06.949 --> 01:15:09.229
Certain religious folks talk about it all the time.
01:15:09.229 --> 01:15:18.510
Something, you know, something along the lines of, you know, give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.
01:15:18.935 --> 01:15:22.885
I like to think that I sort of embody the, the practice of that.
01:15:23.114 --> 01:15:26.734
Taking that little, uh, that phrase and putting it into practice.
01:15:26.935 --> 01:15:29.734
I think I'm, I'm mighty proud of being able to do just that.
01:15:30.305 --> 01:15:35.904
Thank you so much, Justin, for coming on the podcast and for sharing Jessica with me and my listeners.
01:15:35.975 --> 01:15:37.234
My pleasure.
01:15:37.234 --> 01:15:38.604
Thank you so much for having me.
01:15:38.604 --> 01:15:39.604
It has been a blast.
01:15:39.854 --> 01:15:41.925
What would you like to share with my listeners?
01:15:42.194 --> 01:15:45.595
Yeah, just stay tuned for all the different things that we have coming out.
01:15:45.925 --> 01:15:50.154
I have so many interesting ideas for different settings and stuff like that.
01:15:50.164 --> 01:15:56.604
We have Mythos University, where it's ancient Greek mythology, but you're at a typical American university.
01:15:57.604 --> 01:16:02.755
So, like, what does that look like when you're the son of Hermes and you're captain of the track team or whatever.
01:16:02.784 --> 01:16:10.604
And then I have ideas for the future that I'm just like so excited to continue to explore these different setting ideas and I'll try other systems.
01:16:10.654 --> 01:16:11.265
I'm open.
01:16:12.175 --> 01:16:16.555
One of the things that any creator wants to know is what people think of their work.
01:16:16.975 --> 01:16:20.454
For podcasters, it can be especially difficult to get feedback.
01:16:21.024 --> 01:16:25.005
Did you know that you can now leave comments on individual episodes on Spotify?
01:16:25.444 --> 01:16:30.175
If you're listening there, I encourage you to leave a comment and let me know what you think about an episode.
01:16:30.939 --> 01:16:35.659
You may have also noticed a link in my show notes that says send us a text message.
01:16:36.060 --> 01:16:42.020
If you have a question you'd like me to answer on a future episode, or just want to leave a comment, send me a message.
01:16:42.539 --> 01:16:43.789
I started a newsletter.
01:16:44.180 --> 01:16:52.800
If you'd like to get a behind the scenes peek at the podcast, follow my other projects like my current all woman actual play, and be notified when a new episode drops.
01:16:53.295 --> 01:16:56.604
You can find the signup form in the show notes or on my website.
01:16:57.375 --> 01:16:59.734
Please share the podcast with a friend.
01:17:00.194 --> 01:17:03.175
Word of mouth is the best way to find new listeners.
01:17:03.475 --> 01:17:06.104
Your recommendations help me immensely.
01:17:06.625 --> 01:17:09.095
Thank you to all my listeners spreading the word.
01:17:09.435 --> 01:17:10.354
I'm so grateful.
01:17:11.265 --> 01:17:18.125
You can find me on TikTok at StarMamaC or on Threads, BlueSky, as Characters Without Stories.
01:17:18.425 --> 01:17:23.625
You can also listen on YouTube at Characters Without Stories, or follow the link in the description.
01:17:23.935 --> 01:17:31.604
I'm currently accepting submissions, particularly for non D&D characters and for creators from marginalized communities.
01:17:31.875 --> 01:17:38.395
So if you'd like to share your character, you can go to the submission form at characterswithoutstories.
01:17:38.404 --> 01:17:38.774
com.
01:17:39.194 --> 01:17:41.154
Click submit in the navigation.
01:17:41.854 --> 01:17:46.015
Thanks for listening, and may all your characters find their stories.
they/them
Justin is a co-host of the So You Wanna Be a Dungeon Master podcast, TTRPG Content Creator, and published writer.
