On the Dock with CHOWCO's Erin Boyle and Jasmin Parks
"You can still be a badass pirate and be healthy. They're not mutually exclusive." - Jasmine Parks
Have you ever heard these myths about the culinary industry?
Myth #1: The culinary industry is cutthroat and competitive.
Myth #2: Restaurant workers are constantly stressed and overworked.
Myth #3: There is no sense of camaraderie among chefs and restaurant staff.
In this episode, Jasmine Parks and Erin Boyle will debunk these myths and share the truth about the supportive and community-oriented nature of the culinary industry.
In this episode, you will be able to:
- Dive into the hidden impact of mental health in the culinary realm and its vital importance.
- Learn about the challenges of swift expansion in the industry and how to counteract them.
- Understand the power of mentorship and education in creating a healthier work culture.
- Witness a shift in how the culinary industry can be seen as a unified community.
- Be inspired by personal tales of growth and well-being in the demanding food business.
My special guests are CHOWCO's Jasmine Parks and Erin Boyle
Please welcome Erin Boyle and Jasmine Parks, catalysts for change in the landscape of the culinary industry.
Erin's experiences working in restaurants while balancing numerous mental health diagnoses fueled her motivation to improve resources for industry folks. She's used her struggles to help others, championing mental wellness in the demanding culinary world.
Alternatively, Jasmine is a testament to resilience and reinvention. As a third-generation chef, she resonates deeply with the industry's challenges and has consciously transitioned to advocating for better mental health support.
With their collective experiences and insights, Erin and Jasmine endeavor to not only elucidate the industry's problems but also propose effective solutions, turning the culinary industry from a battlefield into a supportive community.
The key moments in this episode are:
00:00:00 - Conclusion of a Job Well Done,
00:02:44 - The Need for Alternative Ways,
00:03:57 - Personal Motivations,
00:06:05 - Challenging Work Culture,
00:09:35 - Personal Transformation,
Personal Motivations
Every venture, every initiative, begins with a personal motivation- a narrative that inspires action. It sets the stage for us to understand why the change is necessary, and why it matters. Listen to Erin Boyko and Jasmine Parks share their personal motivations and experiences that led them to become involved with ChowCo.
Look beyond their professional facades and dive into their personal narratives of seeking self-improvement and making positive changes within their spheres of influence. Their stories reflect the power that personal motivations hold in driving meaningful impact within communities.
The Need for Alternative Ways
Traditionally the culinary industry has thrived on harshness and demands, but there is an increasing need for alternative ways of working. The idea is to shift the focus from being purely service-based to ensuring a healthy work environment and fostering a sense of community. This approach implies not just serving the customers, but also taking care of the team behind the service. Jasmine Parks, with her unique insights and personal experiences, reinforces the need for viewing things differently.
As a chef herself, she admits to having contributed to the toxic work culture in the past. However, her personal growth and involvement with Chow reflect her commitment to ushering in a new culture – one that values mentorship and maintains a healthy work environment. She persuasively echoes the call for alternative ways of working in the culinary industry.
Challenging Work Culture
As most of us know, the culinary industry is renowned for its harsh, oftentimes toxic, work environments. It's traditionally seen as a place where only the strong survive, and the 'pirate culture' is ruthlessly upheld. But, that doesn't always have to be the case. In recent years, voices in the industry have been raising concerns about the mental wellbeing of restaurant workers. It's a brutish culture that leaves little room for compassion, partnership, and genuine community.
This 'cutthroat competition' not only hampers personal growth but also drastically affects mental health. Erin Boyle, for instance, explains the resistance she faces when introducing Chowco's resources in restaurants.
More often than not, she encounters skepticism and discomfort, mainly from those who are hesitant to admit that changes are needed. Emphasizing the relevance of mental health resources, the need to challenge hostile work conditions, and the importance of supporting change, Erin serves as an example of how one can actively work towards improving a problematic culture.
The resources mentioned in this episode are:
-
Book a free discovery call for a culinary career advancement at Chef Life Coaching website.
- Explore Chowco meetings as a starting point for individuals seeking support and guidance in their culinary careers.
-
Support grassroots organizations like Chowco.org that are working to create positive change in the restaurant industry.
-
Educate yourself and others about alternative ways to approach and improve the restaurant industry.
-
Seek professional help and therapy if you are struggling with mental health issues or other challenges in your culinary career.
-
Embrace a sense of community and shared values within the culinary industry to foster a healthier work environment.
Now accepting applications for our first cohort-based "Culinary Leadership Bootcamp."
Call me at 828-407-3359 for more information.
Other episodes you'll enjoy:
220: Thriving in Hospitality by Prioritizing Well-being | Erin Boyle and Jasmin Parks
217: On the Dock with Chef Patrick Mulvaney and I Got Your Back
Connect with me:
This show is sponsored by:
If you're interested in sponsoring this show, email me at adam@chefliferadio.com
Support for The Hospitality Industry:
Tomas Stephensen at Podlike co-produced this episode.
If you'd like your podcast to sound as good as mine, click this link to get 15% off regular production costs.
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Adam Lamb:
Here's another one!
Adam Lamb:
Knives down, aprons off.
Adam Lamb:
The last table is served, the station is broken down.
Adam Lamb:
Everything's put away, your inventory is complete.
Adam Lamb:
And now it's time to meet me on the back dock, where all the
Adam Lamb:
most important meetings are held.
Adam Lamb:
We shall!
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Take a deep breath and enjoy a job.
Adam Lamb:
Well done.
Adam Lamb:
At ease, kick off your clouds, smoke them if you got them.
Adam Lamb:
What a nice cold beverage.
Adam Lamb:
Smooth can of Asheville owned, archetype, brewing, cowboy poet.
Adam Lamb:
Now let's get to the good stuff.
Erin Boyle:
Oh, yes.
Adam Lamb:
What do you think have been the biggest challenges so far in
Adam Lamb:
growing this particular program, Erin?
Adam Lamb:
I mean, or is it just growing so fast that, that that's the problem?
Erin Boyle:
It's not one or the other, right?
Erin Boyle:
So we're, we're, we're, we're growing fast.
Erin Boyle:
That has its challenges.
Erin Boyle:
We are also still working against the system and stigma.
Erin Boyle:
I'll go to a restaurant, go to their pre shift, introduce chow, our resources.
Erin Boyle:
I'll introduce the resources from the restaurant association,
Erin Boyle:
from the given kitchen.
Erin Boyle:
From not 9 to 5, so that people know where their resources are.
Erin Boyle:
And that we're not the answer for everything.
Erin Boyle:
And I would say, depending on the organization, there's anywhere
Erin Boyle:
between 10 and 50 percent of the room kind of rolling their eyes
Erin Boyle:
or, or they're just uncomfortable with being in the conversation.
Erin Boyle:
We've also, like we said earlier, there's a lot of not even older
Erin Boyle:
folks, but people who like.
Erin Boyle:
The industry, the way it is, the pirates that, and I, I feel like you can still
Erin Boyle:
be a bad ass pirate and be healthy.
Erin Boyle:
They're not mutually exclusive, but I think we've gotten into this.
Erin Boyle:
No, it has to be like this.
Erin Boyle:
There has to be ass slapping.
Erin Boyle:
There has to be, um, misogyny in order for us to feel like pirates.
Erin Boyle:
So I think that's one of the biggest hurdles is that for change
Erin Boyle:
to happen, people need to know that there's an alternative.
Erin Boyle:
And in order for them to know there's an alternative, they need to
Erin Boyle:
acknowledge that there's a problem.
Erin Boyle:
So, we're in that stage of, of trying to educate folks that there are other ways.
Erin Boyle:
And I, and I think that's really hard because we're, we're grassroots
Erin Boyle:
organization, we're going door to door to restaurants to tell
Erin Boyle:
people that this is available.
Erin Boyle:
And it's, it just takes a really long time and it takes more than
Erin Boyle:
a handful of folks that we have
Erin Boyle:
working.
Adam Lamb:
And so what spoke to you about this organization or this
Adam Lamb:
effort that you decide to make this such a large part of your life?
Erin Boyle:
So.
Erin Boyle:
There's a lot of things.
Erin Boyle:
Um, I have friends and family in the industry that have attempted suicide.
Erin Boyle:
I've had friends that I lost to overdose.
Erin Boyle:
I also personally have been diagnosed with anxiety, depression, PTSD and,
Erin Boyle:
um, ADHD and while I was working.
Erin Boyle:
In restaurants, I didn't know that.
Erin Boyle:
So all I knew is that some days were really hard.
Erin Boyle:
Some weeks were really hard and it seemed like.
Erin Boyle:
I just couldn't catch up.
Erin Boyle:
So all these things together when I heard about chow.
Erin Boyle:
And people actually talking about the, by then I had already been diagnosed, um.
Erin Boyle:
And I had the, the luxury of, I transitioned to teaching and
Erin Boyle:
had a therapist that I found.
Erin Boyle:
So I had the luxury of having a therapist to figure all this out with
Erin Boyle:
and realize that the folks who are still working in restaurants that aren't
Erin Boyle:
teaching don't have time for this.
Erin Boyle:
So how can we make it more approachable?
Erin Boyle:
So when I heard about Chow, I said, well, that's great.
Erin Boyle:
You have it in Denver, but I live in Boulder.
Erin Boyle:
So let's get one started up there.
Erin Boyle:
And Yeah, I've been with the organization ever since, so I
Erin Boyle:
hope that answers your question.
Erin Boyle:
Uh, it's a, it's a long road of seeing myself and the people around me struggle
Erin Boyle:
in ways that I don't think they have to.
Adam Lamb:
Jazz.
Adam Lamb:
What about you?
Adam Lamb:
What, what are you to the organization?
Jasmin Parks:
I'm a product of the great resignation and I love you
Jasmin Parks:
calling it the great reset because I've, I've never heard that term
Jasmin Parks:
used before and it is so accurate.
Jasmin Parks:
Yeah.
Jasmin Parks:
I'm a third generation chef.
Jasmin Parks:
Um, my father's a chef and he parented very much the way that
Jasmin Parks:
he led a kitchen full of men.
Jasmin Parks:
Um, so I think I was primed for the environment.
Jasmin Parks:
Unfortunately, I never received any kind of what I would identify now
Jasmin Parks:
as impactful or good mentorship.
Jasmin Parks:
I learned a lot of toxic traits and I.
Jasmin Parks:
Was definitely the person that continued to propagate the toxic work culture.
Jasmin Parks:
I don't think that I was a good mentor.
Jasmin Parks:
I don't think that I was a person that was easy to talk to, but I was very efficient.
Jasmin Parks:
I was very goal oriented and very good at my job.
Jasmin Parks:
When I left the industry, I.
Jasmin Parks:
Saw a post about chow and I reached out to Aaron and I told her that
Jasmin Parks:
I was, uh, doing some work on myself, transitioning into wellness.
Jasmin Parks:
Uh, and I was wondering how I could get involved.
Jasmin Parks:
Uh, for me, one of the biggest driving forces is that we're essentially told
Jasmin Parks:
that the way that we run kitchens is based on the military brigade system.
Jasmin Parks:
My husband's in the military.
Jasmin Parks:
They're, they're given a wingman to take care of, you know, they're coupled up,
Jasmin Parks:
their mental health is based on them working a specific amount of hours.
Jasmin Parks:
And then they have to clock out.
Jasmin Parks:
There's incentives for taking care of your body and for taking
Jasmin Parks:
care of your mental health.
Jasmin Parks:
And so.
Jasmin Parks:
I saw this discrepancy with how supposedly we're based on the military brigade
Jasmin Parks:
system, but that he had such an excellent support network around him, and I did
Jasmin Parks:
not, so I didn't know where to go.
Jasmin Parks:
When I found chow, I was incredibly relieved.
Adam Lamb:
I think it's a cop out when we say, oh, it's kind of a military
Adam Lamb:
system, although my wife would be the first to admit that sometimes
Adam Lamb:
when she hears me talk about it, she says, it sounds like you're going to
Adam Lamb:
war, which, you know, very often it does just to your point, you know.
Adam Lamb:
Almost every restaurant tour chef has always been focused out to
Adam Lamb:
the exterior community, right?
Adam Lamb:
We're the first ones anybody comes to when there's a, when there's,
Adam Lamb:
you know, a hurricane or, you know, there's a benefit and we're always
Adam Lamb:
like, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.
Adam Lamb:
That speaks a little bit to, like, the need to be wanted and liked and
Adam Lamb:
appreciated and not having sufficient boundaries to say no every once in
Adam Lamb:
a while, but that's another topic.
Adam Lamb:
My point being is that I think what we've forgotten is that
Adam Lamb:
there's an internal community.
Adam Lamb:
And so sometimes it's just a shift of perception.
Adam Lamb:
Maybe it's just a word.
Adam Lamb:
You know, now it's not a crew with a K.
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Or family, which I don't know about you, but families have
Adam Lamb:
kind of a sour taste in my mouth.
Adam Lamb:
But if it's a team who comes around shared values or a certain shared core values,
Adam Lamb:
like I can, I can be down with that.
Adam Lamb:
This is what I'm in here for and actually to commit to that, that
Adam Lamb:
becomes a community and from the community that culture is built because
Adam Lamb:
it's all happening elbow to elbow.
Adam Lamb:
It's not a poster on the wall.
Adam Lamb:
So this whole idea of community, I think, cannot be undersold.
Adam Lamb:
And I just spoke to Chef Maria Campbell from Philadelphia.
Adam Lamb:
And she's done amazing work, you know, bootstrapping pieces together
Adam Lamb:
for a couple of years, um, in service to her, her community of, of, of
Adam Lamb:
hospitality workers in Philadelphia.
Adam Lamb:
And she's, you know, I tip my hat to her because I most, I'll just own it and say,
Adam Lamb:
you know, I got a lot going on in my life.
Adam Lamb:
And do I actually have enough time to put all this stuff
Adam Lamb:
in my car and drive it down?
Adam Lamb:
And I guess that would only matter, like that decision can only come from.
Adam Lamb:
If I think it's worth it, or I think it's like important enough.
Adam Lamb:
Do you know what I mean?
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Because there's no good reason to change none, right?
Adam Lamb:
We can stand around and wait for someone else to fix it for us.
Adam Lamb:
But the reality is, is nobody's going to fucking fix this except us.
Erin Boyle:
This conversation has inspired me to try to get into the
Erin Boyle:
changes that happened for me because I, I was also the, uh, the chef that
Erin Boyle:
threw things and, and yelled, and then I slowly transitioned to the one that
Erin Boyle:
just took a deep breath because I was thinking, trying to fix the problem.
Erin Boyle:
And what I heard from my staff was that was worse because they're like, now
Erin Boyle:
you're, you're disappointed in, in me.
Erin Boyle:
And, and I was like, okay, so that's not a great managing tactic either,
Erin Boyle:
but I, I'd like, like nobody, again, it wasn't taught to me.
Erin Boyle:
I just realized at some point that when I was screaming, nobody could hear me.
Erin Boyle:
They just heard yelling.
Erin Boyle:
Right.
Erin Boyle:
So I want to try to look back and see what's what.
Erin Boyle:
Changes happen where did I learn to do different so that that that might
Erin Boyle:
be a map for for other folks that are like, I'm interested in change.
Erin Boyle:
I don't know how to do it.
Erin Boyle:
Right.
Adam Lamb:
Yeah, I think that's a fascinating question, especially to
Adam Lamb:
do that kind of sense of inquiry of like, okay, so, like, can I point
Adam Lamb:
to a particular event or something that happened to me that actually
Adam Lamb:
started shifting my viewpoint where I thought, you know, this is not working?
Adam Lamb:
You know, what else is out there?
Adam Lamb:
Um, because I've known done a lot of, um, A lot of internal work, especially
Adam Lamb:
because I got to a point where my wife said to me, honey, all I want is for you
Adam Lamb:
to be happy with what makes you happy.
Adam Lamb:
And I said, I don't fucking know, because I, in that moment, I couldn't
Adam Lamb:
think of a single goddamn thing.
Adam Lamb:
Now, I think part of me was lying because, of course, there's always something from
Adam Lamb:
an existential standpoint, like just being in the kitchen still serve me.
Adam Lamb:
Do I still feel happy there?
Adam Lamb:
Do I know all these plugging myself mentally into these places and like to
Adam Lamb:
come back and go doesn't make me happy.
Adam Lamb:
And yeah.
Adam Lamb:
If all the places are different, then the only, the only
Adam Lamb:
single factor in that is me.
Adam Lamb:
Like if none of these other places are going to make me happy, then
Adam Lamb:
is it that is it that their fault?
Adam Lamb:
No, then I got to own it.
Adam Lamb:
And so I think for me, it was 2011.
Adam Lamb:
I was in the island of Tortola, British Virgin Islands.
Adam Lamb:
I had just moved there to take a job and I had the last 10 pills out of a five
Adam Lamb:
year addiction to opioids after two back surgeries and half a bottle of Brugal rum.
Adam Lamb:
And I looked at myself in the mirror, which I couldn't remember
Adam Lamb:
the last time I actually looked.
Adam Lamb:
Yeah.
Adam Lamb:
Like we do it so quick and I thought I can't, I can't, I
Adam Lamb:
can't fucking keep doing this.
Adam Lamb:
I can't.
Adam Lamb:
I have kids, you know, and I would love to think that I would stop
Adam Lamb:
anything for my children or my wife.
Adam Lamb:
But the reality is I was so unhappy that it had to be about me.
Adam Lamb:
I had to stop believing my own bullshit.
Adam Lamb:
That was it.
Adam Lamb:
Anything my ego was coming up with tainted.
Adam Lamb:
Thank you for caring.
Adam Lamb:
Fuck you for sharing.
Adam Lamb:
Don't need to hear it right now.
Adam Lamb:
Cause I'm trying to choose something other, but, um, it really is, um, the
Adam Lamb:
most subversive thing you can ever do is to do your own work because
Adam Lamb:
from there, anything is possible.
Erin Boyle:
Yeah.
Erin Boyle:
I mean, I had a similar situation.
Erin Boyle:
I didn't, I, my, and mine was.
Erin Boyle:
Not related to substance use, but I, I looked around me and I realized that
Erin Boyle:
all my relationships, they were all
Erin Boyle:
assholes and I was like, well, this is, this is before, but I, and I was
Erin Boyle:
like, but these are the people I picked.
Erin Boyle:
I'm an asshole and I don't want to do this anymore, but I didn't have
Erin Boyle:
good adult role models and that's what made me look for a therapist.
Erin Boyle:
I again, I wasn't going to fix my anxiety or depression because
Erin Boyle:
I didn't have words for that.
Erin Boyle:
I went because I wanted to learn how to be.
Erin Boyle:
A better adult.
Erin Boyle:
I wanted to learn how to be in line with my values again.
Erin Boyle:
I wouldn't have been able to say that before therapy because I
Erin Boyle:
didn't learn it until I was, but, but that's all it took for me.
Erin Boyle:
And I want people to know that.
Erin Boyle:
You don't have to have a rock bottom moment.
Erin Boyle:
You don't have to be staring down the depths of depression.
Erin Boyle:
You can just not like what's what is happening in your life
Erin Boyle:
to what be motivated for change.
Erin Boyle:
And then start asking questions, get curious.
Erin Boyle:
Well, where can I start?
Erin Boyle:
And that's, that's where I think the chow meetings are a good place.
Erin Boyle:
If there's a bridge to wellness, the chow meetings are the first couple of
Erin Boyle:
planks, a place to kind of step in and go.
Erin Boyle:
I'm not sure what I want, I'm not sure what's wrong, but I'm not, I'm not great.
Erin Boyle:
And just hear from other people about how their lives are working.
Adam Lamb:
That's it for this episode of Chef Life Radio's On The Dock.
Adam Lamb:
Chef, if you're ready to advance your culinary career, then let's book
Adam Lamb:
a free discovery call today by...
Adam Lamb:
Going to cheflifecoaching.
Adam Lamb:
com forward slash discovery.
Adam Lamb:
And the link is in the show notes at chef life radio.
Adam Lamb:
We believe that working in a kitchen should be demanding.
Adam Lamb:
It shouldn't have to be demeaning to be hard.
Adam Lamb:
Just doesn't have to be harsh.
Adam Lamb:
We believe that it's possible to have more solidarity and less suck it up.
Adam Lamb:
Sunshine, more compassion, less cutthroat Island, more partnership,
Adam Lamb:
and less put up or shut up.
Adam Lamb:
And we get to have more community and less.
Adam Lamb:
Fuck you.
Adam Lamb:
We shall.
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And finally, we believe in you.
Adam Lamb:
Consider for a second, for all the blood, sweat, and tears we put into
Adam Lamb:
what we do, that really, at the end of the day, just some stuff on a plate.
Adam Lamb:
None of it really matters, it doesn't define you as a person or make you any
Adam Lamb:
more special or less than anyone else.
Adam Lamb:
It's just a dance that we're engaged in, so we might as well
Adam Lamb:
laugh and enjoy every bit of it.
Adam Lamb:
Or didn't you know that the purpose of your life should be to enjoy it?
Adam Lamb:
I like your hat, man, I fuckin love it.
Adam Lamb:
I'm going to keep that the box so I don't live on now.
Adam Lamb:
Stand tall and frosty brothers and sisters.
Adam Lamb:
Until next time, be well and do good.
Adam Lamb:
Find us on Facebook, Instagram, all the other goddamn social media sites
Adam Lamb:
at ChefLifeRadio, all one word.
Adam Lamb:
Visit us on the website at ChefLifeRadio.
Adam Lamb:
com.
Adam Lamb:
In case you didn't realize it, we just got our asses kicked in there, man.
Adam Lamb:
This show was written, produced, and recorded by me, Adam Lamb, at the Dish
Adam Lamb:
Pit Studios in Bardo, North Carolina, and co produced by Thomas Steppenwolf.
Adam Lamb:
On the Dock is a production of Realignment Media.