Exploring Bottled-in-Bond Bourbon with Bernie Lubbers of Heaven Hill Distillery

Chris Spear:
0:00

This week's episode is for the bourbon enthusiast. Today I have as my guest the"whiskey professor" Bernie Lubbers, Heaven Hill Distillery's national brand ambassador. If you want to learn more about bourbon and one of America's oldest and best distilleries stick around this episode is for you. This is Chris Spear, and you're listening to Chefs Without Restaurants, the show where I speak with culinary entrepreneurs and people working in the food and beverage industry outside of a traditional restaurant setting. I have 31 years of working in kitchens, but not restaurants and operate a personal chef service during dinner parties in the Washington DC area. Before we get started here, I want to be transparent about something. If you listen to last week's show, you might know that heaven Hill distilleries bottled and bond is a current sponsor of the show. But being a sponsor does not guarantee you a guest spot on the show. In fact, it's a rarity here, I wouldn't have anyone on the show who I didn't think would be entertaining and provide value to my listeners. Bourbon was the first spirit I ever tried. And I've had many products from the Heaven Hill line in my liquor cabinet over the years, I was genuinely excited to have Bernie as a guest on this podcast. Okay. I wanted the show to be a little primer on Bourbon. Like many food and beverage products, there are regulated specifications as to what can be called bourbon. On top of that, there's another classification which is bottled in bond. What does that even mean? Bottle them Dawn goes even further than what bourbon is, and Bernie's one of the champions of bottled and bond. So obviously, we're going to talk about that today. But we also get into things like whiskey tastings and tasting notes in general. I asked him about the price of bottles, especially as it relates to the quality of the Spirit. And I feel like it can be overwhelming when you go into the liquor store and see 200 different bottles of bourbon. Where do you even start? Do you even know who's making those bourbons? Something I found really interesting was how the Bourbons differ and have different names, even though they have the same mashbill What's the difference between Evan Williams heaven Hill and Henry McKenna bottled and bond bourbons. If you want to know Bernie breaks it down for you. He also gives a great guide on how to do your own tasting at home and compare them to kind of gauge what you might like. I hope you enjoy listening to this conversation and that you maybe learn a thing or two about bourbon. And besides what you hear in the podcast, Bernie has a book out called bourbon whiskey, our native spirits pick it up to learn more. As always, thanks so much for listening and have a great week. As a lifelong bourbon enthusiast, I've always been captivated by its rich complexity and fascinated by its history. Bourbon was the first spirit I tried when I was old enough to drink. I only wish I'd started with the good stuff. That's why I'm excited to introduce you to Heaven Hill's bottled-in-bond bourbon. Born from the Shapira family's unwavering passion since 1935, this bourbon is a testament to quality and tradition. Heaven Hill distillery goes beyond the bottled in bond Act of 1897. Aging this bourbon for seven years, three more than required creating a richer, more sophisticated flavor profile. When you select this premium bottled and bond bourbon, you're also ensured that you're getting a bourbon that's been made in a single distillation season, and that it's been bottled at exactly 100 proof. This commitment to excellence is evident in every sip. But don't just take my word for it. Haven't held bottled and bond when the double gold at the 2023 world spirits competition in San Francisco, New York and Singapore as well as the 2023 Triple steal award from the tasting Alliance. Discover the award winning heaven Hill bottled and bond for yourself. Whether you enjoy it neat on the rocks or as the cornerstone of a cocktail. It's a bourbon that stands apart. Heaven Hill bottled and bond delivers a flavor profile that's unmatched. available nationally at your local retailer. Embrace the premium quality that heaven Hill bottled and bond brings to every sip. Heaven Hill reminds you to think wisely, drink wisely. Hey, Bernie, welcome to the show. Thanks so much for coming on.

Bernie Lubbers:
3:55

Thanks for having me, Chris.

Chris Spear:
3:57

I'm excited to talk to you. You are the whiskey professor, as you're known in some circles. Yeah,

Bernie Lubbers:
4:02

I'm a self proclaimed whiskey professor. That's kind of the title that we landed on when I first started in the industry. Because, you know, there was a lot of people that were ambassadors and all that kind of stuff and different things. So he came up with that, and it's kind of stuck. And I'm kind of one of the last ones in the in the American whiskey business anyway.

Chris Spear:
4:21

And that was in the early 2000s. You started like 2005 Yeah,

Bernie Lubbers:
4:24

January 2005. I started back when there was only 10 distilleries in Kentucky. How

Chris Spear:
4:30

did you get involved in that? Were you someone who had been in the spirits industry? Or were you just a recreational cocktail guy?

Bernie Lubbers:
4:37

Well, I got into it probably the most natural way. I was a touring standup comedian.

Chris Spear:
4:43

Oh, that's interesting.

Bernie Lubbers:
4:46

So a couple things happened. I did a routine in my act. That was my closing bit about my 94 year old dad who drank a quart of Bourbon A day and it was about a 1015 minute bit. It was kind of my signature piece. And every time I had a bourbon and toasted to my dad at the end and have everybody in the crowd, so a company heard that I did that, and started inviting me. That was Jim Beam. And they started inviting me to different things, tastings and different things around Derby and different times. And I guess that was kind of a soft. What do you call it a rehearsal, I guess for when they the head office said, We need somebody to represent the brands in the state of Kentucky. They asked me to interview for it. So being a stand up comic, I can stand up in front of a crowd and talk whether I know what the hell I'm talking about or not. And, um, kind of a quick study, then I grew up in Kentucky, so I had the had the pedigree, and my dad drank a quart of bourbon a day. So I knew probably more than most people back in 2005 sitting in a room, you know, tasting. And then of course, I had people like Fred no and Jerry Dalton at Jim Beam to, you know, learn from and so that's how I got into it.

Chris Spear:
6:00

So you were an influencer? 20 years before that was a real thing, right? Because isn't that it? Now everyone just recreationally post things on the internet, and then they get job offers. But it sounds like you are the original influencer, the definitely the original whiskey influencer. Going back 20 years now then.

Bernie Lubbers:
6:16

I'll take that. Sounds fair.

Chris Spear:
6:19

And then. So you've been with heaven Hill since 2012? What was it about heaven hill that made you move on over there and you've now been with them for 12 years?

Bernie Lubbers:
6:31

Well, you know, I've still friends with people over at Jim Beam and everything. But you know, you got to look out for yourself sometimes. And I wasn't looking for a job. But heaven Hill happened to need. They were adding to their to their whiskey ambassador program. Their ambassador was moving on. I had worked with him at Jim Beam, he had become the ambassador over and heaven Hill, he was moving on to another position and suggested they talked to me. And we talked and, and it was something of you know, it's a family owned company that was attractive to me. And the fact that it was, you know, they had these cool old labels, and a lot of them are bottled and bond. And I had already established myself as kind of being the bottle and bond guy back in 2006 or so. So that was attractive to me. And they lured me away.

Chris Spear:
7:20

Well, you mentioned bottle and bond. I want to quick pause there because before we get into that, I think it's important to talk about what bourbon whiskey actually is. I'm sure many of my listeners know, but there are some technical rules that need to be adhered to. So can you give us a very brief primer? What makes an actual bourbon whiskey?

Bernie Lubbers:
7:41

Yeah, well, I happen to have a copy of the standards of identity right in front of me. I was taught that by Jerry Dalton, who was the master distiller at Jim Beam. And when I came over to over to heaven Hill, I showed Parker beam, that I carry these around, he thought that was really cool. And I keep them with me all the time. And it's a bourbons not a long definition, it says pretty quick and easy. But bourbon whiskey also shares a definition with rye whiskey and wheat whiskey and malt whiskey and rye malt whiskey. But it's whiskey produced no more than 160 Proof off the steal. From a fermented mash. It's not less than 51% corn, so you have to be the majority majority corn, if you're going to be a rye whiskey must be a majority green, rye, etc. Then it must have the stored and not more than 125 proof in chard, new oak. So there's those restrictions of off the still. And then in the barrel and the type of barrel, which is new, charred oak containers and also can and that's basically the definition of bourbon. So there's

Chris Spear:
8:51

no standards for where it can be made. Like I can be making bourbon here in Maryland, it doesn't have to be a Kentucky thing or anything like that.

Bernie Lubbers:
9:00

Correct. That's a separate, secondary separate declaration in 1964, where Congress declared unanimously that's hard to do anymore. That bourbon must be a distinctive product of the United States. So you can produce it anywhere in the United States. Yes, that does include Puerto Rico, and I'm guessing and Guam and Hawaii and Alaska, people have unbelievably asked me that I'm like, Well, gosh, that's not even a question. Right? So these are laws. So these are you can interpret them and you can argue them if you want, but it's pretty clear that it must be made in the United States but 90% of it's still made in the in the Commonwealth of Kentucky. Yeah,

Chris Spear:
9:42

I had the fortune of visiting Kentucky for the first time ever last summer. And I was only there for two days and I had the whole family in tow so I didn't make it to as many places as I would have liked. So in my hopefully near future, I will be back and tour many more of those places. But you know, it's so different because here in Maryland, we have distilleries and you go in for a tour. And it's just like a factory warehouse kind of thing with like, you know, a couple of stills, nothing to look at. And then you get down to Kentucky. And there's, you know, huge plots of land and these giant barrel houses and everything, and it's so much more impressive. That's definitely a distillery tour. If you've never been to Kentucky and been to an actual distillery down there, I recommend it to anyone who's in the area. Well,

Bernie Lubbers:
10:25

please do come by and you know, there's one reason for that is because out of from prohibition, to today, so when prohibition was over in 1933, you know, I had to start back up, there was only six companies that were allowed to stay open for medicinal purpose during Prohibition. So from prohibition till today, it was I mean, Maryland distilling got kind of wiped out New York distilling kind of got wiped down. The major producers that were left were in Kentucky, for the most part, there was one in Virginia. And it's just because we've had it here the longest, but we were decimated to. So there's only 10 distilleries owned by six companies that were around in 2005. When I started and we I call those legacy distilleries, because if it wasn't for the six of us, there would not be the now 100 distilleries in Kentucky and 2600 outside of Kentucky. So that's pretty, pretty mind boggling.

Chris Spear:
11:35

So you had mentioned bottled in bond. Let's go back to what bottled and bond is because I feel like that's something that you don't see as much or at least hear people talking about and you are one of the people who I think is credited with kind of championing bottled and bond. Yeah,

Bernie Lubbers:
11:52

well, I've, I've, I've always kind of made it my thing. You know, that's, you know, I realized early on, I was one of the few ambassadors in the we're in the American whiskey business and everybody who was around me there was an ambassador was a either a beam family member, or, you know, like a Jimmy Russell, Eddie Russell family member was a, you know, or a master distiller and I wasn't those things. So I was, I was looking for something that I could embrace and at the time, nobody had the one of my very first bourbons and I ever found it was one of them was my favorite bourbon said the word bonded right across the top of it. And when I came home, this was in the late 80s. I came home and I told my dad I said, Hey, man, I found this great bourbon. And he is ballin bond he goes, Oh, bom bom that's the good stuff. And I went want now that hits your ears, right? I wasn't in the industry, but that as a, as a Kentucky in and as somebody who was getting in to get more into bourbon. What do you mean the good stuff? And he says, Well, that's it supervised by the United States government is 100 Proof he'd say and then that was about as far as he got, you know, but he knew that was something so when I got in the industry, I wanted to make it. You know, my thing you know, I saw recently I saw a talk it was at our national sales meeting, we had a keynote speaker. And he said, what are you what are you famous for? And that was a challenge like if you're going to be in you know, representing some What are you famous for? And I started looking on social media and seeing all these people that were famous they became famous because they love some and I went wow, I guess that's something I did kind of unconsciously back then in 2005 and six, but I wanted to be famous for famous as a big word, you know, small pond, but I want to be out that's I want to be the bottom bond guy then so wanted to because there were so few Bolland bonds compared to how many labels that were available back then and still are today.

Chris Spear:
13:56

So what does bottle and bond mean?

Bernie Lubbers:
13:59

You know, there's words on labels that mean things that's what what Jerry Dalton talk taught me back in the day and then those words are Kentucky straight bourbon whiskey and I read you the bourbon law. There's also restrictions and laws on just what whiskey is whiskey must be made from grains. Not just not from fruits, not from molasses, right from grains. So you have these different restrictions. And I talk about those words on labels like Kentucky straight bourbon whiskey, as military men and women earning metals you have to earn that metal. And it is restriction not everybody in your unit has that distinction. Right. So we're we're whiskey and then we're bourbon whiskey. And then we're from Kentucky, that's another metal because we've had the institutional knowledge here. We have the limestone water which was more important probably 100 years ago, but it's still pretty important. We also have the four different seasons, really hot summers really cold winters we have long springs and falls, which helps that aging and that whiskey going in now those barrels so there is an advance And as to Kentucky, compared to North Dakota and Florida on them, not that it might be better but it will be different. And then we have the words straight, which means it must be aged for a minimum of two years and those are brand new charred barrels. So those are each individual metals, then you have bottled and bomb which is so there's there's that makes bourbon and rye whiskey and all those some of the most restricted whiskies, spirits on planet Earth. So there's a lot of restrictions. Then on top of it, you got bottle and bond Balaban, you must pass all those you must get all those metals for bought for bourbon, but then you must be have follow all these wishes distilled in the same distillery, it must be from the same spirit from the same class of materials. So the kind of grains you know, corn and all that stuff, the same distilling season now we're down to a season we're down to a six month period, there's only two distilling seasons spring and fall January through June, July through December, then you must be stored for not just two years like straight whiskey but four years a minimum of four years. So double the age, then it must be in a stored in a government bonded warehouse is reduced in proof by pure water only. So imagine this this sounds like common sense today this was passed in 1897 pure water only to exactly 100 degrees of proof, it must bear the real name of the distillery so you know who made it, it also must put you must be must put on the unique distilled spirits plant number that the government assigns us. So look at all those restrictions. So I call a bottle and bomb the Greenbrae of spirits. It has all the metals, right? That that knocks you into the Special Special Forces, if you will special services because of all that, and thus that makes bottom bond the most restricted spirits on planet Earth.

Chris Spear:
17:02

Wow, I never thought of it that way.

Bernie Lubbers:
17:04

Yeah, and because they're so hard to to to achieve those. They're also Chris the rarest spirits on planet Earth. And what does everybody want right now in bourbon world, the rare models. And it's just a different definition. Because light is rare have to mean only three and I got to pay $3,000 Each for them. You know that's rare can also mean there's not many of them. That's kind of what rare means. So bottle and bond can be rare, but also available every day. And that's kind of what we have in heaven Hill. Couple other distilleries have one or two we have 10. And we have a bottle and bond with our with our heaven Hill bottle and bond that's not only available every day, but it's even rarer than the bottle and bond because it has a whopping seven year age statement. Right now there's 2700 distilleries. 100 in Kentucky, 2600. Outside of Kentucky, let's say all of them make four labels each. I mean, even smaller distilleries have three or four labels, let's just say four for each. That means there's over 10,000 labels of American whiskey on Bourbon and American whiskey on the landscape. Of the 10,000 labels. There's only around 100 that have achieved the designation of balm balm. It's that hard. That's rare right there. Then followed by an SD minimum of four years old. How many are over four years old?

Chris Spear:
18:44

10

Bernie Lubbers:
18:46

I think that's high. Sure. Yeah. I think you know, we've got our heaven Hill, which is a seven year old bottle and bond. We have Henry McKenna, which is a 10 year old balm balm. We have the old Fitzgerald decanter series, which was eight years to 19 years right now, I've only mentioned heaven Hill products, by the way. So we dominate that landscape. There might be one or two other distilleries that put maybe three that put a age statement over four years old. So they're the rarest of the rare.

Chris Spear:
19:21

So with this heaven, hell bottled and bond, like how do you decide seven years? You know, it has to be four. Did they do a five? Did they do a six? Did they do a seven? Have they tried an eight Do you know like how do you just decide that it's going to go for seven years?

Bernie Lubbers:
19:39

That's a great question. We've we've had bottling bonds. Of course we have many that are four years old. We've had six years old, we've had eight year old we've had 10 years old, we've had older than that we've had all the way up to 24 year old and a Parker's collection. on that. It comes to taste profile. And with bottle and bond you are within a six month period because of the distilling season. So you find we have our sensory team and our tasting panels. And we find where the sweet spot is where we know that customers are kind of looking for the weak, some of that's projecting or guessing. Sometimes, that's the fun part. So we found that this seven year was the was a nice, sweet spot.

Chris Spear:
20:24

So talking about the sensory experience. How would you describe the flavor profile? In general of like a well aged bourbon? Like if someone is new to this? How would you describe a really good bourbon? And then kind of looking at specifically to heaven Hill, bottled and bond product? What are the tasting notes of that?

Bernie Lubbers:
20:46

Well, here's my universal, telling everyone not to be intimidated by tasting notes. Because if you throw tasting notes out, and then Chris, you don't find it in there, but there's must be something wrong with you. Right? So we went through. So that's not it at all. You know, we're Parker beam, he never talked about it in tasting notes, he would just say, well, I taste good bourbon, you know, and that meant there, but there were no flaws in there that was negative that it had only positive things. But the way I describe it is you have three grains that are in the raw product. You got corn and barley, which are sweet grains. And then you have the rye, which is a spicy grain, think of rye bread, think of cornbread. So sweet and spice. And then from the barrel aging, you get basically three tasting notes of vanilla, there's six different villains in a in a barrel, when we char the inside of the barrel that brings the natural SAP and the sugars from that wood up to the edge of that barrel. And that's where a lot of that red line is called a red line. And that's where the whiskey goes in and out of there picks up the color in the flavor. And that is vanilla, honey and caramel. Then of course, if it's over six years or so I'm going to buy the old timers telling me this that had been with the distillery for 3040 years as it takes six good years to get really think of a new barrel as a magnifier of flavors. So you magnify those vanilla, honey and caramels. But after six years, you get some oak influence, you're really going to taste some of the wood. But we don't want it to taste like a dirty old stick is our master distiller Connor O'Driscoll will say don't want that. So that's what you're gonna taste that Ella honey and caramel, sweetness and spice, then everything else in the middle, that's your building blocks of a tasting. But the mortar, all the mortar in between that holds it together is your individual experience from your mom's cooking, from your school lunches, to your dad's grilling out to your grandparents, holiday meals, to the smells and tastes of your childhood and adulthood. That's all in there. And that's what is makes bourbon so much fun and intergenerational is you can now have your own personal tasting profile that happens. And with a seven year on the bottle and bond of Heaven Hill. It's in that great sweet spot of seven years. So it's over six years to get that magnification and then augmented flavors, and then some of that oak influence in there too.

Chris Spear:
23:28

I do find that the tasting notes thing can be overwhelming. And like you said, I don't know. Self reflectively like disappointing. I took an analogy course in culinary school for wine, you know, and we'd be in class with 30 people and you try this thing and the teacher wants you to shout out what it tastes like and tobacco and you know, whatever molasses all this I'm like, like, I don't get that. Am I wrong? Like I'm not getting BlackBerry in this wine at all like, am I supposed to. So similarly, with the whiskey thing, you know, you read, you go on a website, there's a new bottle you maybe want to try and every website has their opinions and ratings and reviews and you see all the tasting notes and then people argument arguing in the comments about like, I didn't get the caramel notes in this, but I got more like burnt wood and it's like, I don't know, should I buy this whiskey or not?

Bernie Lubbers:
24:18

Yeah, I mean, we all like to throw tasting notes out. But again, like you said, what if it's I've never smoked, so I don't get tobacco right. I mean, I've smoked up you know, I smelled a Swisher sweet on the golf course before and things like that and then smoked probably two or three cigarettes in my life. I just never get that. So I don't get some of those flavors that people who have smoked or enjoy cigars have smoked several cigars in my life. But it's not a regular thing for me. But that doesn't mean that they're not tasting it. And that's okay, but that's their experience. And so the best way to do it is of course, why we do tastings and whiskey festivals and bourbon festivals. so that people can come up to the tables and talk to us. And then when you then you can go. And when you go to your local bourbon bar, you can get a one ounce pour or two ounce pour of it, give it a chance and then go and buy it. You know, there's ways to not have to go buy a whole bottle before you taste in the sampler. There's great ways to do it more fun ways to do it.

Chris Spear:
25:25

How many bourbons Do you think you've tried in your lifetime? Do you have any idea? Do you keep track of things you've tried?

Bernie Lubbers:
25:33

Oh, no. Oh, no, I'm sure it's 1000s you know, on the animation team, you know, from I mean, do you count every barrel we've done a private barrel pic with with with liquor stores and retailers and bars and each barrel is different. So you got to count that as a different even if it's, you know, even it's a light you know, if it's an Elijah Craig barrel, I've tasted hundreds of barrels of just have that one brand, you know, so it's 1000s. But, you know, it's it's a lot of fun, you know, here's the cool thing. All bourbon basically is corn, barley and rye some handful have wheat. So what does it matter you know, its its its age and proof, tell what brands it is. Sometimes, the way it some some some distilleries, how style includes making a specific bourbon a specific way. And they actually put the name of the bourbon on the barrel. At heaven Hill, our house style is to make a style of whiskey. So that would be bourbon whiskey or 78%, corn, 12%, malted barley 10%, right. But there's no name like it doesn't say heaven Hill, or Elijah Craig, then it goes into the one of our 70 Rick houses, depending on if it's the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth or seventh floor on the inside of the Rick house to the outside of the Rick house. And then we taste them after a certain amount of time, knowing where the institutional knowledge of knowing where the brands come from putting about a 300 barrel dump in and then tasting it, and wondering and seeing, hey, does this need a little tweaking then, is this in the taste profile for heaven Hill balm balm. And that's how we do it. It's like a painter with a palette. So think of every barrel is a solid color on a painter's palette. And then when they're all mingled together, they make another color. And then our sensory team, which is headed up by Tawny goatee, she's been with our company for 34 years now. She and her team, dial it in. So if it's off Pro, think of prices right in the range game, right? If it's in that range, they go ahead and dump it in because it's in there, it's in that range. But if it's slightly off, it doesn't become another product, they bring some more solid colors, more barrels in either from the lower floor, middle floor or higher floor on their knowledge that will bring that and put it into the range. And that's what makes it such a it's not really a factory then even though we are we make a lot of bourbon, but there's a lot of personal touches in institutional knowledge and experience of people like Tani goatee. And, and her husband Pat works over in a sister in room and part of warehousing and who know how to put these, how to put these batches together.

Chris Spear:
28:36

It's both an art and a science at that point.

Bernie Lubbers:
28:38

That's what makes it so much fun.

Chris Spear:
28:41

Do you have advice for people when they go to the liquor store? Because I find it's overwhelming. I mean, you've talked about the number of bottles right? And I think so many people obviously have a price range, I'm looking for something in the $25 range$50 100 But like, not counting that just looking at labels and bottles. What guidance Do you have? Do you go for things like bottled and bond? Or do you just you know, grab a bottle try it and decide whether that's something you'd want to get again?

Bernie Lubbers:
29:10

Great question. It's words on labels means mean things. So knowing that bottle and bond are the rarest and most restricted spirits on planet Earth has a big statement and I love saying it but it's true. Why wouldn't you take your hard earned money and buy four or five bottles and bonds so I'd suggest people I work for heaven hill so I'm gonna throw out heaven Hill products here. So if you got if you went out and bought a mellow corn, bottle and bomb corn whiskey, Rittenhouse rye balaban rye whiskey, Evan Williams balaban bourbon whiskey, there's three different styles of American whiskey that are the most restricted and rarest spirits on planet Earth. As you can taste, and you haven't spent $50 Yet, you've got three bottles. Now I can taste those and learn. Do I like corn whiskey, bourbon whiskey or rye whiskey? Do I not like one of them? Do I like one more than the other? Do I like all three? I can go from there and branch out. Right now I can do some more experimenting, but I would also buy a heaven Hill. Balaban on top of that, because in those four whiskies because there's three different styles, look at how much we've just taught ourselves from a liquor store, right? So I'm not in it for $100 and I've got four of the rarest spirits on planet Earth. The mellow corn is a corn whiskey, it's in a used barrel. So most whiskeys of the world. single malt scotch whiskey, Irish whiskey, Canadian whiskey, Japanese whiskey are all aged 90% of it is Asian a once used bourbon barrel. So now I've got an example of what a US barrel does has influence on a whiskey on a whiskey. Then if I taste bourbon, the Evan Williams bourbon after that, that's almost the same recipe. The one has a brand new barrel and one's in the US barrel. Now that brings that to life. What is the use barrel do in a brand new Bourbon Barrel due to the same recipe brought that to life. That's a lot in two bottles to taste. And then we taste the Rittenhouse right and it's also in a brand new barrel but it's got five times the Ryan It's got 51% Right. So wow, those three whiskies alone. Then I go back and I revisit the Evan Williams bottle and bond that's four year old traditional bourbon whiskey and heaven Hill balm balm. Now that brings to life with three additional years does to the same exact whiskey, the bourbon whiskey and Evan Williams and the bourbon whiskey and in heaven Hill are the exact same exact same recipe comes off is still the same goes in the same number three charred barrel goes in the same Rick houses, but one's three years longer. So here's what a brand new charred barrel does that from four years old to seven years old. And then I can see wow, I can that really brings to life with three more years does. Then if I want to if I wanted to go by Henry McKenna, right, that's a 10 year old, also the same whiskey. Now I've got those five different bourbons brings to life a four year old seven year old 10 year old have the same exact whiskey I can find where my sweet spot is. I can find about like more oak and get that but you know, if you like if you like that lot of oak, it's kind of hard to get Henry McKenna. So that's where the seven year old bottle and bond comes in. Because that's on the shelf almost every day. That's that's that's that's that's not an allocated item like like Henry McKenna. And that's the power of this heaven Hill bottling bomb is the rarest of the rare. It's kind of it's got a lofty age statement on it too. But it's available every day. But those five whiskies will really be my map to show me the next time I go into the liquor store, and I see 300 bourbons, I've got a much better game plan than I had a week ago.

Chris Spear:
33:35

I think that sounds like a fun party game. And so just pick up those five and do a tasting with your buddies. That right? I don't buy any other right Other than that, and I think you know, it's easy to sometimes base your opinion on price and I was just stunned you know, because it's a reasonably priced right and you would think, Oh, I guess I should probably you know if I want a good bottle spend $50 or not $25 But I am 100% pleased with the Rittenhouse right and rarely buy anything other than that. And I think that's an amazing one. I always have that in my liquor cabinet at home. And I want to kind of talk about pricing, because these days a lot of people talk about certain elusive bottles, right you had said something about like the three $3,000 bottle people are paying, you know $900 For bottles. Is this all nonsense and signaling and flexing and saying I have this bottle because in blind tastings, these pricier bottles don't necessarily perform or rank better if you go to a spirits competition. So is it all nonsense and just kind of say I got this bottle of this thing that nobody else has.

Bernie Lubbers:
34:50

You know, like everything else. There's not one answer to that. Sure. You know, of course there's a lot of flexing, of course, you know, if you're gonna say I've got every park There's ever made or I've got every every decanter of old Fitzgerald. And there's other unicorns and other distilleries that people go nuts over, you know, Pappy Van Winkle and Blanton's and all this stuff. And, and a lot of it is flexing, like, Hey, I've got liquid I've got my thing is, I'm like, Look at all these bourbons that you overlooked that I've gotten that you don't have, that are so good, right? So I mentioned like, those Alakay those those unicorns, that's gold dust, and everybody wants to grab gold dust, right and I say if you you should always grab gold dust when you see it. But you're stepping on bricks of gold to reach the gold dust. So pick up the brick of gold pick up the Rittenhouse Rive vollen bond pick up the heaven, Hill balaban and put that in your cart too, because the bricks are worth more than the dust.

Chris Spear:
36:04

I'll try some of the gold dust on someone else's dime. One of the things that I've been fortunate enough as a personal chef is like, I go to people's houses, and quite often they want to break out some of these bottles. I did a party around Christmas time where this man I mean, he had a whole whiskey room in his basement and he had easily 20 bottles alone of everything from the Van Winkle line right and was just like, what do you guys want to drink tonight? And was like opening bottles. It's like if you're opening a bottle of some pappy that I've never had, I'll sure take some of that. So you know, spoils of war, whatever you want to call that. We'll talking about consuming straight bourbon. You know, we'll maybe talk about cocktails a little bit. How do you decide whether you're going to drink it neat? Maybe do an ice cube or a few drops of water? Is it personal preference? Or is there a way to kind of decide how to best consume something and maybe thinking about like the Heaven Hell bottled and bond in particular. Is there a best way to try that or try all three and see what works best for you?

Bernie Lubbers:
37:06

Oh, that's a with cocktails bottle and bond is kind of the go to have a cocktail bar in Dota, where any cocktail bar in your in your city and they will be pouring cocktails from 100 Proof bottle and bond because being at the higher the lowest of bourbon can be as 80 Proof a bottle and bond must be 100 proof so that higher proof will stand up if I'm making a rye Manhattan, I mean a Ryan Manhattan in a bourbon Manhattan. And they're both 80 proof or 86 proof or 90 proof. They're both made with rye, rye, barley and corn, rye bourbon and bourbon whiskeys. Same three grains will because it's a lower proof. And then I add the sweet vermouth. And each one I add ice and then stir it which becomes water and waters it down that's part of the cocktail and put the couple dashes of bitters in the nuances of a bourbon and rye might go away. And I might not be able to tell the bourbon Manhattan from the rye Manhattan. But if I make one with Rittenhouse vollen bond and one with Evan Williams bottling bomb, Ryan bourbon, and that 100 Proof stands up and it raises its hand and says hey, I'm the rye Manhattan and I'm the bourbon Manhattan. So that's the advantage of balm balm, as you can really tell the difference in the cocktails of what you prefer and what style of whiskey you wanted them. And the 100 proof which happens to be approved gallon, which is what we paid to the government, it always comes down to money to the government, right. That's why the 100 proof was chosen. But it worked out really good for cocktails, but it also works out good drinking something neat. So it's not barrel proof. It's at 100 proof, which is still a good, you know, sizable, nice proof that I can taste it. If it stills too strong, which you make the face right? You make the wincy face, that's gonna be too strong, and a little bit of water and find where you like it.

Chris Spear:
39:05

Experimentation.

Bernie Lubbers:
39:06

Right? You know, that's the fun that's having people over having, you know, and let's, let's find Let's experiment, it's gonna be different for each person too. So just because you like it at 100 proof and I like little water in it doesn't mean you're right or I'm wrong. I

Chris Spear:
39:20

do think that's where a little whiskey snobbery comes in. You know, people want you to try things neat first, and I'm not opposed to that. But quite often they'll say, Oh, this is a good bourbon, don't add water to it or don't add ice to it. But I find that a little opens it up sometimes in ways that are beneficial to the Spirit.

Bernie Lubbers:
39:37

Absolutely drink it, how you like it, but know why you like it.

Chris Spear:
39:41

Do you see any trends? I do follow trends. And are there trends in bourbon right now or things that you're kind of paying attention to that or maybe evolving?

Bernie Lubbers:
39:51

Oh, sure. There's been lots of trends. When I started. There wasn't much bottle and bond around. It took years and years and years of being Johnny Appleseed. of the bottle and bond world does spread the spread the love and now a lot of people are being that's that's now a becoming more and more of a thing but it's hard to achieve. So there's not many it's still not many out there but there's there are 10 times more bottling bombs out than there were when I started when I started to people didn't want anything that was too strong. We have a product called fighting fighting COC bourbon, it's 103 proof and people go oh wow 103 It's only three more points over a volume bomb and they make us Oh my God, even Bom Bom back then. 100 Proof Oh my gosh. Now, you know, look at all the all the barrel proofs that people people gravitated towards. When I was a Jim Beam, they were one of the first to come out with a distillers masterpiece, which was finished in cognac or a sherry barrel and look at the finishes that have come out. And all the toasted barrels that have come out. Those are trends that are still still around and being done. But I think it's bottling bonds time and I think with heaven Hill bottle and bond coming out right now and being a national product. With a seven year age statement. I think that's really turning heads. And really, I think it's the next thing I told some distillers you know they they're like, oh, that's just that's from a bygone era when those when the Treasury agents used to live on the distilleries. It's not even anything anymore, but I'm telling them hey, Balaban is like water coming in your basement, right? You can put towels down, but the damn floor is gonna get wet. So you better be either gonna be with it, or you're gonna be washed away in it, you know, you're gonna be behind the curve. Well,

Chris Spear:
41:44

besides being a stand up comedian, is there any advice you have for people who maybe want to break into the spirits industry and do something similar to what you're doing?

Bernie Lubbers:
41:53

You go to every every event you can you go to every distillers distillery event, if there's one particular distillery you like go to every single tasting, they do go to every event that they put on. Go talk to the people who work at the distillery in the in the distributors or represent the distilleries and say, Hey, I love this. And one day, I'd like to get into the into the industry. And if you're if you're known to go in, you know, gosh, Chris comes to every single thing we do. You know, we're now looking for an ambassador. We're now looking for somebody be on The Sensory Team or whatever. Well, you know, Chris, he's an everything we do. He's an everything. Oh, my gosh, you're on a shortlist all of a sudden. And then after you're on a shortlist, it's up to you to do it to get the interview. But you know, you just want to get on a shortlist of three to five people that they're thinking of. And that's the way to stay top of mind that people. All

Chris Spear:
42:45

right, that's great advice. Well, is there anything you want to leave our listeners with today? Before we get out of here?

Bernie Lubbers:
42:51

Well, this bottom bond, it's you and I still want to have resonate that it is it is the most restricted and rarest spirits on planet Earth. So why wouldn't you want every single one. And with only a handful that have an over four year a statement with Heaven Hell bottom bomb at $50 A bottle that is not overwhelming. And that is something I can put into my every day of sipping need, enjoying a cocktail kind of experience. And then after that, you can branch out after that. But that's how I think that's the power of Heaven Hill balm balm. And having our name on the label is something we're really proud of on a national platform. And I

Chris Spear:
43:44

definitely think I need to go pick up a couple other bottles and do one of those side by side tastings. I do think that's a really great idea. And again, the price point on all of these models makes it very reasonable that you could pick them all up for you know,$100 or so give or take for like five bottles. Absolutely. Well, thanks so much for coming on the show. It's been great having you today,

Bernie Lubbers:
44:05

Chris, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. And I always love talking about Bom Bom. And

Chris Spear:
44:09

to all of our listeners. This has been Chris with Chefs Without Restaurants. Thanks so much for listening and have a great week. Over the past 30 years, the world of the personal chef has grown in importance to fulfill dining needs. While the pandemic certainly upended the restaurant experience, it allowed personal chefs to close that dining gap. Central to all of that is the United States personal chef Association, representing nearly 1000 chefs around the US and Canada. US PCA provides a strategic backbone for those chefs including liability insurance, training, communications, certification and more. It's a reassurance to consumers that the chef coming into their home is prepared to offer them an experience with their meal. USPTA provides training to become a personal chef through our preparatory membership. Looking to showcase your products or services to our chefs and their clients. partnership opportunities are available. And there's a new member special On all membership levels, save $25 to $75 by using promo code spring 2020 for special veteran pricing and payment plans are available. Call Angela today at 1-800-995-2138 extension 705 or email her at a P r a t h e r er at us pca.com for membership and partner info. You're still here, the podcast is over. If you are indeed still here, thanks for taking the time to listen to the show. I'd love to direct you to one place and that's chefs without restaurants.org. From there, you'll be able to join our email newsletter. Get connected in our free Facebook group and join our personal chef catering and food truck database so I can help get you more job leads. And you'll also find a link to our sponsor page where you'll find products and services I love. You pay nothing additional to use these links, but I may get a small commission which helps keep the Chefs Without Restaurants podcast and organization running. You might even get a discount for using some of these links. As always, you can reach out to me on Instagram at Chefs Without Restaurants or send me an email at chefs without restaurants@gmail.com Thanks so much