Exploring Scottish Cuisine with Scotland's National Chef Gary Maclean

If your knowledge of Scottish cuisine is limited to haggis, and whatever you've learned from Groundskeeper Willie on The Simpsons, today, you're in for a treat. My guest is Gary Maclean, the National chef of Scotland. Prior to our conversation, I had little knowledge about Scottish food and cooking, which is why I want to have Gary on the show. I'm guessing that many of you also don't know too much about Scottish cuisine. So today is the day all that changes. This is Chris spear and you're listening to Chefs Without Restaurants, the show where I speak with culinary entrepreneurs and people working in the food and beverage industry outside of a traditional restaurant setting. I have 31 years working in kitchens but not restaurants and currently operate a personal chef business throwing dinner parties in the Washington DC area. Do you remember that SNL skit in the 90s with Mike Myers, he ran a shop called all things Scottish. And whenever a customer walked in the door bagpipes played and he yelled welcome to all things Scottish. If it's not Scottish, it's crap. I'll save you my attempt at a Scottish accent there. Well, besides that, and some haggis jokes, I hadn't had much exposure to Scottish cuisine or culture, except maybe when it comes to whiskey. I have spent some time in the UK but only in Wales and England. And we do talk about some of the similarities and differences there. But that's why I was really excited to have Gary on the podcast. He's Scotland's first national chef, a role he was offered after winning MasterChef the professionals in 2016. Gary also recently released a new cookbook for North American audiences called the Scottish kitchen. It's somewhat of an adaptation of a book he released last year, he just did some of the recipes to take into account ingredients that were available to us here in North America. For instance, you can't buy cheap lungs legally in the US for haggis. And while you might assume to just add more liver, which is something I would have assumed he actually suggest adding ground pork or chicken to keep it from tasting to livery. Gary is also a teacher and we discussed the importance of culinary education and teaching children about food and nutrition from a young age. We also talked about his MasterChef experience and what he considers to be the best culinary products in Scotland. He likes to remind people that Angus beef is a Scottish breed of cattle of course. So if you're new to Scottish cuisine, and like learning new things like I do, I think you're going to enjoy this episode. And a little teaser for next week, I'll be releasing my episode with Tiffani Thiessen. You might know her from her time on Saved by the Bell and Beverly Hills 90210. But she's also a two time cookbook author, so that will be out next week. In the meantime, if you want to stay connected go to chefs without restaurants.org. From there you'll find links to our Instagram and private Facebook group for culinary entrepreneurs, as well as the link to sign up for our Chefs Without Restaurants newsletter and more. As always, if you're enjoying the show, please share it. And the show is made possible with the help of our sponsors. Today's episode is brought to you buy the United States personal chef association. So this week's episode will be coming right up after a word from the USPCA

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Hey Gary, welcome to the show. Thanks so much for coming on.

Hi, Chris. Thanks for having us. It's nice to be here.

Yeah, I'm really looking forward to you today. You know, I selfishly like to have people on the show who can teach me something and I don't know anything about Scottish cooking or cuisine really. And I think you're probably the guy to talk to right. You talk about Scottish cuisine a lot.

Yeah, I do. I'm Scotland's national chef. And I also write cookery books based on historical and contemporary Scottish fit. So yeah, I know a lot of Scottish fit.

How do you get to be the national chef of Scotland

and I was actually asked by the Scottish Government. I did. I did the TV show MasterChef. The professionals. You guys have it there. I think Gordon Ramsay a fellow Glaswegian as the as the main host on your show. I think I've heard of him. We have three MasterChef shows in the UK. One is the regular one the use of got we've got our celebrity one, and we have a professional one. So we have professional chef that go on Master Chef and compete against each other. So I did that a few years ago and managed to win it. And I had about 15 minutes of fame. And during that time, the Scottish Government asked me if I'd be interested in supporting it and being Scotland's national chef.

So what does that mean? I assume your responsibilities are kind of raising awareness of Scottish cuisine is that the long and short of it,

to be honest, that isn't that particular part is not in my remit. And I was given this kind of fig Dorsey, of about 4000 things that they would like the National chef to do. And I pet two things, you know, if I was going to make any impact at all, there was no much point trying to do everything I thought, I'm going to set to really what I'm passionate about. And one of them was education and, and teaching kids to cook. Anything that would get young people into our kitchen and learn and fundamental life skills, habits, happy to support and also support for charities who are feeding people who wouldn't normally have food. And that's my main objective and Scotland. When I travel, I set my chest out and tell the world what an amazing place and what amazing food Scotland's got. And I support export of Scotland's food and drink. What do you think

Scotland does best food wise? Like what are the products you really think are top notch and say we have the best.

We, without a doubt have the best fish and shellfish. Scotland has got more coastline and France and Spain combined. We've got the perfect Geography and Environment for fish and shellfish. Just, you know, luck, I suppose luck and weather and things like that. But we also have the gulf stream that comes up from South America right across the Atlantic. And it runs right up the west coast of Scotland. So what that does is a constant supply of nutrients and food for our fish and shellfish. And also raises the temperature of the water on water by a degree, which again, helps boost there. So that combined with environment that combined with our weather and untouched seas, we definitely provide the best fish and shellfish in the world. Without a doubt, and I can say that

I'm from New England, and I think you know, like we have lobster coming from Maine. But you guys have phenomenal lobster there, don't you?

Yeah, I mean, I was doing a dinner last week and then New Jersey and I made a lobster bisque. And honestly, they're not a patch on a Scottish lobster for for anything. You know, for weight for the amount of meat you get in them for the shell. I just really struggled getting the same flavor from Maine lobsters as we do from a Scottish lobster 20 Michelin star restaurants in Tokyo alone have Scottish lobster on the menu.

That seems like a like a secret. Like I didn't even really know that until I started digging into your book.

If you even look at the states, you know, if you Google Scottish lobster menu, you know New York, you'll find all the restaurants during Scottish special show, for instance, on these three Michelin star restaurants 11 Madison Park, for instance, used to have Scottish Scottish game and Scottish fish and shellfish on the menus. I know they don't have any meat. They don't have anything. I don't think they've got Scottish carrots.

I don't know who does the best carrots in the world.

And I don't care, I don't know. Even looking at vegetables and things like that. So Scotland produces sweet potatoes. And those sweet potatoes are transported all over the world. And fundamentally, if you're eating potatoes anywhere, probably with the exception of Canada in the US, you're eating the Scottish potato or a Scottish potato variety. Look at Angus beef. So Angus beef is a word that's used all over the US. Angus beef is a Scottish breed. So Angus is an area in Scotland, where Angus beef comes from our Angus cows come from? So that's that's what we'll do over.

Yeah, I mean, I think that's something in the back of my head. I probably knew at one time, but you just don't think about it on a daily basis here.

Yeah. I remain people all the time, especially when I'm you know,

I see, in my opinion, like some similarities to Scottish cuisine with a lot of other, you know, UK, whether it be Wales, England, like what are the similarities? What are the differences kind of in the cuisine there?

I think you'll find a lot of similarities in Scottish food right across the northern hemisphere. I think, you know, when I do demonstrations in New York or New Hampshire or, you know, up in New England, I always get someone in the audience going, Oh, my grandma used to make that or my mum used to make something very similar. You know, you've got anything along that sort of parallel really, you've got a lot of Scots that did I'm American Canada, and brought bring a lot with them. So if you're looking at immigration, going back 400 years, and that's influencing Canadian food, American food, you know, and we're all using the same ingredients as well. That's the other thing. You know, what was available is all of our classic dishes, no matter where you come from, comes from what was available at the time. What could that particular class of people afford? How did they use up the bits that no one wanted? You know, for instance, things like haggis, which is probably our most famous food,

I would never heard of a.

So it's a Cana. You know, I think particularly particularly in the States, I think most people get the knowledge of haggis from The Simpsons, or grant keeper Willie occasionally mentioned that, but But there'll be a hardest dish in every culture, because haggis is basically using up the bits that the well heeled didn't want. So we just Honduras NT something that managed in less than the length of time that it has. Are you familiar with scrapple? Exact Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Everyone talks about scrap all time. Yeah,

we're in the land of scrapple here. So this is very much a Maryland Delaware thing. Your cookbook was inspiring because you have so many interesting recipes using haggis and similarly if I ever have a cookbook, mine is going to have a whole scrapple chapter because it's one of those things we eat it as a breakfast food here. But you don't see it in a lot of dishes. So I'll put it in a dirty rice. You know, traditional dirty rice would have chicken livers I use scrapple in there. I do a little fried popper. So to see that you had little haggis poppers there I thought that was really interesting. Like is that I know over there you can buy it pre made as the quality good like I always had in my mind, that was something that you would everyone would just like make when they want it. I didn't even think about the fact you could like go to the grocery store and have one. Although it seems like a tremendous amount of trouble to make.

To be honest, I am. I have very rarely made haggis from scratch. And when I was writing the recipe for the book. I was writing the book for an North American market. Because in Scotland, even the very best chefs won't make haggis because haggis is made by butchers. So butchers make haggis, not chefs, some restaurants will make things like venison haggis, when they get in a whole fairness and and things like that. But the haggis that you buy is, is the best ever. It really is. It's

like making sausage. If I want sausage for dinner tonight, I'm not probably going to make my own sausage, like I have the culinary fundamentals. But I'm just gonna go to the store or the butcher shop and buy it.

Yeah. And again, it's the butcher that's got the skill. And I'm lucky I've got a really good friend who's a butcher. And over the years when I've wanted to learn something, or wanted to do competition, so I do a lot. I do a lot of competition work the students and I'm a culinary courts and all that sort of stuff. And when I want my students to stand out, if they go in and make a blood pudding, I don't want them taking the blood put in and I want them to make it. And I want my students to show the judges something they've never seen before. So I would then challenge my friends like pitchers and things like that for their end say and how I can achieve that. And this is over the course of 20 years when I've learned to to make things like black pudding and things like that tattie scones and all these things that ordinarily, people wouldn't make, you know, tack scones is in the book. And it's basically potato and flour. And that's a little bit of salt. But we would never make it out of school. Because we can buy them for $1. You know, for a pound we can buy the best scones ever like to write a book friend off the American market that can't access these fundamentals. I had to learn them, which was quite an interesting, interesting journey for me.

So is this new book kind of I know you had a similar named book come out over there like a year ago is this that book pretty much like reimagined or tweaked a little for North America is that essentially the same book

is essentially the same book. It's got a slightly different name, it's got a different cover. And I have changed some of the names of things and change the haggis recipe because you guys can't use lunch. So when I go to America and get haggis, the pitchers over there, they don't use lungs. They always put an extra lover which completely changes it is not nice. It just delivery and becomes too lovely to Gainey and so I've replaced that with I think there's an option of ground checking or ground port. And basically what the what as you know as a chef lungs don't actually taste the venison but they provide you know they bring things together. We got like an egg white. I would think you know when it's done soiled and meant it's a filler, as opposed to something that's going to flavor. And I was trying to think is something how would background pork in their work to create that film that doesn't give you that lovely taste. But the reality is the goodness, I've got a Scotland's publisher, but the book was written for the American market. So I spend most well, a lot of my time in the US. And I do demonstrations. And my first book that came out was a cookery course. So I wanted to teach people to cook. So I had everything in there, I had, you know, basic sauces, how to chop an onion, how to break down a check in how to make beef gravy, how to make a curry, how to make a result of properly, how to make pastry and all these fundamental skills that you would have learned that skill. That's what I wrote. And then I started traveling and going to the States and I became Scotland's national chef. And I had this book out, and everybody was buying book Thinking, it was Scottish, when other women come up to me in New York and said, I totally love your Scottish telomere serve as the best I've ever tasted. And had explained to me was actually an Italian tiramisu, it was just cooking fundamentals. So I cannot ever it was called Kitchen essentials that and that was going back to my kind of teaching my teaching days of, and I just wanted to get really good cookery course, for folks who probably wouldn't cook much. So I felt like oh god, North America, a book that was Scottish. So I wrote the book through lockdown. About every Scottish cookbook I could find, and I wasn't overly impressed with what I saw. And there was none that were really written for a modern kitchen, there was none that were written for, the way we bind shop, you know, a lot of this stuff I used in the book, a lot of a lot of recipes made the book because I could buy the ingredients from Amazon, you know, things like blood pudding, you know, I could buy the skins, I could buy dried blood, I could buy the little gun that fishes the maximum of the skins. And you know, sitting in front of my computer in the spare room writing those books, and login into my Amazon account to see if someone can buy the ingredients that we need a change that button. And another thing I wanted to do is, as an educator, I write as I teach separate loads of detail and upper and loads of things that you know a little story about how I used to do it, and it never worked really well. And this is how I do it now and this is what I've learned. And it's a kind of journey. But every every recipe has got a picture as well, which I think's important. And it's far more than kitchen. So that was this sort of driving force. But again, it was very much a straightener from, from a power house and the US and Canada.

Well, I appreciate that. Because you know, as a chef, I love to be, you know, I love to learn new recipes. I love to be inspired. I buy a lot of international cookbooks. But so often I will buy a book, let's say a Spanish cookbook. And then I look at I'm like, Oh, that's interesting. Literally half the ingredients I can't get here like so at that point is just inspiration, or I'm having to, you know, figure out a way to retrofit it with what I have. So I have a book where you said, oh, yeah, I don't, I would have put more liver in like with the haggis. If I didn't know, I would just look and say, I can't get lungs as put more liver in. So to have someone who's actually said, like, no, don't do that, here's what you're going to do instead.

But again, it was really, really pleasing for me that an American note of Canadian publisher Penguin, and got a hold of the book and thought this is perfect for North America. And when I went on at a couple of publishers who wanted to take on in the end, one in the US one in Canada, and I was just so chuffed that the saw what the book was all about, and what the market for that book was, you know, so I think within the book as well, there's loads of beautiful photography of Scotland. And again, it was one of my one of my main sort of pet ideas that we should be using the glorious landscapes of Scotland to share with a book because I think it goes hand in hand, you know, food and landscape. Maker out meat, that whole book.

It's absolutely beautiful. It makes me want to move there. You know, you clearly enjoy teaching. Where did that come from? Because, you know, a lot of chefs in the kitchen they, they mentor and they teach but I do think that. I don't want to say it's either something you have or you don't but not every person who's a chef is necessarily a good teacher. So where does that part come from? Because you really seem invested in wanting to teach, you know, you're talking about working with young children and just educating people like me and my audience. Where does that come from?

Yeah, I mean, my day jobs in education, so I'm Executive Chef at the classical College, and I've been I've been at that college since 1988. So I was a student at that college. And when I was at college, there was no no full time no one went full time everyone was linked to the job. So I was part time I used to do two nights a week Twilight classes. And I did that for three years. I graduated. And then a year later, I was asked to come back and cover a class. So there was a lecture, who had had to go to the dentist or wherever they had to do. And I was asked, Would I come in and cover this class on this particular Wednesday. So I was, I mean, it was one of the proudest moments in my life that I was asked to teach. So when, and I loved it, absolutely loved it. And I actually covered that class for 15 years. So that every single Wedensday for 13 years at college, that's a long fill in period there, I have no. And I had loads of big massive jobs, I was running some of the biggest food companies in Scotland. And I used to go for interviews for next job or anything like that. And you know, the back they say, Have you any questions, and I say, I don't have any questions, but I'd need to let you know that I need every Wednesday off. So I used to take every Wednesday off from my job and work the weekend so that I could teach. And then in 2010, I did the reverse, I went through 10 College and part time industry. And I've really been there ever since it's been a massive, massive part of my career. It's been it's been teaching and working in education. And I think I think I'll be doing it till I retire.

I have a lot of people who I know listen to the show who are on the younger end, maybe they're just starting their culinary career. So what would you say to someone who is maybe 18, just out of high school or early 20s and wants to maybe pursue a career in cooking? Do you have any advice, whether it be

where to start or just anything you have? I think the first thing you do is get in touch with your local college, you know, getting qualified, particularly in the US and Canada. It's fatal, I think, you know, because it's fairly difficult to move up that career ladder without the paperwork. And when you're younger, you don't appreciate that you need that. But if you can go to college, if you've got college, definitely. The other thing is you have to work in good places. So pick up a gate book, and find the best restaurant local to you and ask for a job. And the other thing is make sure you work for nice people, you know, you've got to wake up in the morning, and actually want to get out your bed and go work in that place. Because if you're in a job that you don't like, or the people are horrible, find another one. Because there's plenty of good kitchens out there be nice people who will look after you.

You've been in the industry long enough that I'm sure you've seen a little shift in that right kitchens were not always the nicest, and they're not always still the nicest places to work.

I think there's a massive change, particularly since COVID, I think the hours have gone down, their money has gone up. And I think conditions and how people, how people look after people makes a big difference. And the reason the reason being, I think the next generation coming through, are brighter than I ever was, they'll get much more knowledge, and they've got all the information at the fingertips, you know, they've got a mobile phone. So if they're having a bad day, they can, they can go for the break, jump on the phone and get another job. Whereas when I was younger, there was no jobs. So if you'd manage to work in a great kitchen, you just have to you just have to get on a bed, you know, and stick around until you got it. Right. So it's completely different. It's a completely different world. And I think it certainly changed for the better. And I think it's something I think all chefs have to work towards, and make sure that that next generation know that this is actually an amazing career. You know, it's not all just bad hours and horrible people to work for. It's, it's there's some great opportunities out there. You know, and I know a lot of chefs, I've got amazing stories to tell of where the work and where they've been and where they've traveled and, and things like that, you know, it's a fantastic career. And I'm just glad I found fit a young age, and you

still do teach younger kids like through your, like volunteer time how to cook or do some cooking

through my national chef role. Yeah, go into everything from kindergarten to elementary to high schools, and other colleges, and I do and presence and, you know, whatever this fit does me, you know, a lot during that kind of outreach. And I'm probably in about four skills a month at the minute. And it could be it could be a kindergarten where they've converted a room into a bakery for little three, four and five year old kids. So it's really interesting how people are engaging with we'd get some primary skills and Scotland that I can get and fantasies and and to kitchen you know because the, the need for young people to learn to cook is absolutely vital. And I'm not teaching them. I'm not teaching them to be chefs and teach them to live well. You know, it's, it's teaching them a life skill that actually means life. And a Scotland we've got some of the worst health statistics possible, you know, from strokes, diabetes to obesity, Scotland has it all.

Why is that? Do you have any insight,

I like to think it's a lack of food education at a young age. And I think there's a lot of different factors, you know, there's, you know, enter settings and poverty, so people that are struggling, will go to convenience foods a lot quicker than they would go pick up some fresh food and cook. Again, it's not just exclusively to Scotland, but we, we seem to home and a lot more, you know, the life expectancy of poor people from inner cities, as you know, like, like two thirds of what it would be just a mile, you know, up the road, you know, so it's, there's, there's a lot to do. And I think that if we teach young people to cook, you know, and it's a slow burn, and this isn't just against Scotland, I think it's a whole Western world. If we teach young people to cook and understand nutrition, and understand cookery process, I think their health will be better in the later years, which means there's less of a burden on everything else is obviously in Scotland. We pay for we pay for the SEC, everyone pays everyone puts in for the NHS, so it's not insurance, it's not self provided. Anyone who's second Scotland gets looked after for free because of the NHS and, and the cost of the NHS and for years just gone up and up and up and it's down to, you know, diet and lifestyle. A lot of it is

my wife's a registered dietician. Now she used to be a chef. So she kind of has combined her backgrounds and she does a lot of combination. Yeah, yeah, she went to culinary school with me. She actually did her internship in Wales for culinary school, which is how we got this love for over being over there. She worked at the Celtic Manor, and Carolyn showed that she got out of college. So she went to Johnson and Wales University in the US here in Providence. And then we have the opportunity to go anywhere in the world to cook. And she wanted to go overseas and just started looking at properties. So she went on and did three months living there and cooked and then hadn't been back in 20 Something year. So in October, we took I have 11 year old twins. So the whole family went over there. And we made a trip across the UK going all through Wales and England for a little over a week.

I liked that part of the world. It's a hell of a place to get it from Scotland. I did. I did a charity dinner encounter, just days before the COVID thing. And my flights get canceled, like hours before. So I ended up having to drive to Cardiff it took about nine hours and then do a full 15 hour shift dinner. That was my first time in college.

So looking at your MasterChef experience. Did you ever dream of going on TV or a culinary competition? Like how did that come about? I've had a few guests on the show who have been on Master Chef both in the US and in Canada. What was your experience?

I absolutely love that. And the reason the reason I did that is because we use MasterChef professionals as a teaching tool. So at the start of our show, they bring in six competitors one at a time. And to do a little background on them. You know, normally the head chefs of Georgia and mansion theaters at restaurants and all that sort of stuff. So they really pick up the chef's and they do the hero shots and all that sort of stuff. And they show them in the restaurant cooking their best plate of food ever. So they look amazing. Straight after the introduction, they build them into the kitchen, the studio, and they do what's called the skills test. And the skills test could be something as simple as craps or or fell out and fish or something basic task and nine times out of 10 The Chef's really make a mess and so that so the following morning after the shows the students will come in the first year St. Joe's will come in and go chef chef chef Did you see so and so from whatever who couldn't, couldn't born a check in and as lecture for me it was a great tool to say, Guys, this is why you're devoting your time to learn these fundamental the foundations of cookery you know us first years Can fell officially component check in, they can pull a saddle alarm over and all those sort of good skills that a lot of chefs who don't go to school, don't pick up, you know, that just bypasses them, whatever they, they just don't know how to do it. So it's a great tool for us. In conjunction with that I was a college, culinary coach. And we started that I started the team. And we won everything, you know, after, you know, I did it for about six years before I did Master Chef. And we won everything. I think we won about 20 UK titles and about five or six international titles in India and America and places. And so my students started to appreciate me saying, well put your money where your mouth says you can coach us how it went? Can you do it yourself? So I applied. And there's like a big 10 page application five telephone interviews, and amid the omitted the screen test part of it. And then I had the most amazing, have you ever. And I came out in the former way furnaces, I think I'm in have terrified chicken, I think I'm in because you you're applying, but you're kind of hoping you don't get in. If that makes sense. His is quite scary. And then. So don't call us we'll call you scenario. And they never phoned me and I never get in. So I was absolutely livid that I never again. So I applied again the following year, and I went, I can now wear a bad reflection I can I thought I went too smart. I went too much as a college lecturer. So I went with Star Wars to be shot in a theater Daniels. And that the worst interview ever. And I came out in the fall and my wife and I says look, I think and then see if that couldn't have went any worse. They're probably going to get Zen as one of the as cannon fodder, so to speak as I thought it did, and never get an ad. Again, I thought that was enough for me. I just couldn't handle that objection anymore. And one of my students the third year, he said, You're applying again this year, Mrs. Nana, I've had I've not done it again. Okay, take that objection. And he said, today's the last day of applications. So I set the students off in a break, I went to my office and I sent the previous year's application. And I changed the dates and got to the screen test again. And I went smart, casual, and grew a beard and go and so

keep track of a time's a charm is another the expressions of the cooking like, it's very different. And I've never been on TV but like having the lights the camera crew they're filming, it's very different than being in your natural environment of a kitchen. Like that's people say to me all the time, you should go on chopped or something like that. I don't think I could deal with the pressure or the anxiety of that having them in my face having this very unnatural type of environment just I think it's not for everyone so I can understand, obviously being nervous and you know, maybe not butchering the chicken so well or laying a fish there. It's got to be tough.

Yeah, no, and the way they set it up as well. You know, it's the first time that the competitive see the see a camera, it's first time to see the present errs and they see the studio and stuff like that. But I was kind of lucky because obviously I had a whole load of competition experience are understood. And obviously, when you teach you understand timings really well, you understand presentation and you understand keep it neat and tidy, and all those other kind of core skills. And I also did a lot of TV prior, I've done I've done quite a lot of TV, there was a there was a Sean Glasgow, a live show cooking kind of man magazine show that and I think that about 50 times. And live TV, when you've got three segments of 50 seconds each takes a lot of planning a lot of time and as well as performance. So I think between lecture and having that little bit of TV experience, I think it really helped. So I wasn't training the cameras, because they went live, you know, I knew that Northern, there's 5 million people behind that camera eventually. But they weren't there at the time. You know, and your phone went all day for an hour show. So you're hoping that they're going to get your best bets as well. But my first TV experience was actually in the States. Then I did some TV in in Chicago. What was that about 25 years ago, it was breakfast TV WGN. So that was my first live cookie spot on TV. And I was recently back on the show, two or three months ago, I was invited back on after 25 years and nobody knew which was quite strange. Simple as enter. Which was pretty cool. I

guess it must be good job for them. If

they've been there that long. It must be it must be Yeah, that's crazy.

I guess being on the show would lead to some great opportunities that allowed you to put Scottish cooking front and center I mean all On the show, were you cooking all Scottish type dishes or was the format where you were doing other things and being a little more experimental?

You know, it's funny, because when you get flung into that vitamin, you know, I thought before you can, and probably most people think when they're watching MasterChef that the person's cooking a dish, they've done 1000 times, and the two weeks of practice, the show is day after day, after day, after day in if you get through one show, you get the challenge for the next show. And I never ever considered myself as being a Scottish chef. But when you're under immense pressure, you're present from your repertoire and the best things that you know, you're privileged the things that impress judges, and every single dish out there was Scottish. And it wasn't until I came away from it with, you know, 30 dashes on the show, in every single one of them would make a Scottish you know, and it's, you'd have them back to your, I think, your primal skills. So as it's kind of weird. And I kind of said towards the end to my other competitors, if I don't get a job with this Scottish tourist board after this, you know, I've messed up. And on the show, the show's massive over I mean, it's shown 100 countries and everything else. And but it's huge. And I got 7000 emails, 7000 emails in one day. So woke up the following morning, and everything was broken, my phone had, you know, millions of messages, everything else. And I answered every email, I answered every WhatsApp message, I answered every LinkedIn for everything. And it took me three months to find the email from the Scottish tourist board or from their job. And Mr.

When was that? So? Was that after you won that you got all the message

at one? Yeah. Yeah. Second, I think you've got I think, you know, a Scottish guy, winning master chef was quite a big deal. But Scottish educator and a Scottish teacher went in professional Master Chef, was a major deal. And obviously, I've been, you know, we've got X Factor in, you know, Britain's Got Talent and stuff like these guys get Americans to that town, if there's ever any Scottish folk on these types of shows, the whole country gets behind them. So rather than, you know, if you're from dev, and everyone from Devon support ship, or if you're from, you know, South Wales, everyone can take the wheel supports up in Scotland, everybody unites. And, you know, they get behind you. So it's an incredible experience. Well, I'm

sure to the layperson, you know, it kind of gets a bad rap cuisine wise, I think that generalization, both of yours and British cuisine, it's like, it's kind of bland, there's not a lot going on, you know, I don't think a lot of people have had experience with it. So to be able to kind of get up there and show people that you've got some of the best products in the world and some really delicious recipes, obviously, everyone's going to want you to be the representative for the country's cuisine.

So I think there's a big, there's a big change in how people think of food. And that's from a chef's point of view, and the general public's point of view. I think people in the last 10 years have totally embracing their local in local ingredients in local produce, but also the local traditions and, and family recipes. And I see that all over the place, wherever I travel, whether it's, you know, in Asia, or Europe, or North America, people are really embracing their own fit. You know, I opened the Scottish restaurant in Glasgow. Again, it must have been about 2020 odd years ago, and called the coffee. And I was opening lots of restaurants at the time. And I had NDN, Italian, French pizza, pasture, marketplace, marketplaces, American places, all sorts of stuff. And I remember, I was opening my seventh restaurant in the same street, they're almost next door to each other. And I literally ran out of ideas, I ran out of what you do. And I'm thinking, what, what am I going to do for the sake of my job to come up with the concept? And I thought, why don't we do Scottish and Scotland and Glasgow. And I remember going to the owner with a with a round table that we've been discussing dissect ideas. And I went to do this, this idea of what the Scottish restaurant in Scotland is so unusual. I wanted to speak to the actual owner first, before I pitched it, this crazy idea to the rest of the team. And he loved the idea. And and I remember the press and the coverage that restaurant got because you're the Scottish restaurant in Glasgow was kind of revolutionary, even 20 odd years ago. It's quite revolutionary, you know, ordinary Scottish restaurant in Glasgow and it sounds bizarre now. And now in Glasgow, most restaurants are When were Scottish elements, whether it's an Indian or an Indonesian, or, or French, or whatever that concept has the core of the Scotland the core of the Scottish ingredients. And it's a massive change. And I think it's a huge change.

What cuisines Do you love? What are some of your favorite besides traditional Scottish? Like, what do you enjoy?

I think at home, and, you know, obviously, I've got five kids, and they're all very different. We're all get very different tastes and things like that. Asian foods good, and then go to India quite a lot. So do like, have you like Indian food? In Scotland, people really like Indian food. I suppose you've traveled England as well. There's a lot of Indian restaurants, absolutely good Indian restaurants. You know, I quite like everything. And I do like getting to these quarters of the states. I do like those. You know, and in Maryland that you like to see fit checks, you know, whether it's, you know, obese season and stuff like that.

Everyone's got all their friends with all day tattoos, you know, it's a way of life out here.

I've got, I've got OB in my restaurant and Edinburgh, I've got an OB Dash. And no one knows what it is. I like the smell it gives off a seafood restaurant. So I'm trying to emulate those restaurants I've been in and Morrow.

And with your recipes in your books, how do you balance tradition with kind of innovation or contemporary ideas like it's a fine balance, right?

Majority of its traditional written in a contemporary way, I would say that would probably be the vast majority of those dishes are are definitely traditional. So if you hand that book to an ex parte Scottish person, and the states, they would flick through and recognize pretty much everything that's in, well, good, I'm

gonna have to practice some of those recipes. I have a person who's contacted me two years in a row to do burns night dinner. And I'm like, I don't know anything about any of this. You have got the wrong guy here. I've not attempted it. So maybe I take the book, I practice some things. And this year, I say, hey, you know what, once you give me a shot, I'm gonna take a stab at this.

I think I think what you'll find in the book is well, that each dish has got a story. You know, and a lot of those dishes in that book, I've actually served upon suppers and St. Andrews nights in the US and Canada. So there's a lot of dishes there. So you know, it's a it's a one stop shop for the perfect and one supper.

What is one message or hope you have that every reader of your books or listeners podcast takes away if there's something that you really want to drive home about Scottish cooking? What would that be?

I think the big thing when I write as I'm trying to make it a user friendly book, so I want to see that but not on a shelf or in a, you know, on a on a coffee table somewhere, it needs to be in the kitchen getting covered in gunk, it needs to be getting used. And, and don't be frightened to try something new. And the other thing is don't want to sound like a boring old teacher. But no matter what the book has, whatever the recipe is, read the whole recipe first before attempt to sui know when it's gone, where were the weather direction as and, and you can plan ahead, there we go. I think that would be a mad face. But just Yeah,

I made those mistakes in my early days, like you just look and you start the recipe and don't realize that it's like a three day something like something's got to

moderation. And yeah, there's very few recipes in that book that you can just pick up and get on with. And there's a massive amount of recipes in that book that are falling obedience. You know, because traditionally, when we, you know, all our ancestors, they didn't cook for fun, they cook because they they needed to live, you know, and they didn't have the same choices we have with food. So they were cooking, what was available. And a lot of traditional recipes have very, very few ingredients. Because it's about survival. It's not about showing off to your spouse for dinner party or changing up at the weekend. You know, they were cooking to survive. And that's what I love about traditional food from all over the world. I think there's

been a resurgence in that. You know, I love that so many more people are interested in cooking and food these days. But when I think of the past decade and a half of all the cookbooks I've gotten and all the restaurants and things, you know, I'll buy these cookbooks and you look at these recipes and there's like 80 ingredients and all these specialty things. And I think, oh this is interesting as a coffee table book, but I'm not gonna pull it out on a Tuesday night. I mean, I work I have kids, I want good solid food that I can put on the table quickly.

I think it's good. If you're a chef and you pick up one of those books and you're learning something and you're taken, you know, one of my favorite books in fact 11 Madison Park their books stunning. And some of the you know, the footage on the surface like all good food looks really Simple. And then there's four pages of recipes, that if I can pick the things from the 20 things that they're putting on that plate and learn something, it's worthwhile for me, particularly when I do dinners at dinner parties and looking for new ideas for restaurants and things like that, you know, it's certainly worthwhile. But I write for the home cook, and I never, ever forget that it's a home, that's going to have to find those ingredients and go shop. And, you know, remember my first book. And when you write your first book, you've got 1000 ideas, because you've already got 1000 recipes, because your, your whole lifetime of ideas. And that particular book I kind of liked. And I remember, right, I've wrote the book. And then I went to do the photography, which means that meant I had to go by the fit. And I'm looking at a recipe and I'm looking at the ingredients, and I'm going, I can't be bothered by Nova, what am I gonna do with ingredients, what we're going to do with this, what we're going to do with that, and I just didn't put it in the book, and I put something, I just picked something different that was simpler and much more user friendly. You know, it's got to be, it's got to be user friendly. And the pace of food just now as well. I mean, I was quite shocked. Last week, when I was buying food, and New Jersey. It's expensive, a lot. And it's went up a lot in the last certainly last few years since I was since back then,

I was just talking about this the other day on my social media, short ribs, beef short ribs, I think are up 23% in cost since like January, it was something like it was like 999 a pound and then it hit like 1199 a pound. And I was like 1490. And that's from January. And that's just like one item to have a 23% you know, food cost increases is crazy. And we're seeing that scaled out across the board, not just with food, but with you know, so much more than that.

I mean, I bought a cucumber that was $3. Let's be a really good cucumber. It wasn't it? Actually, was it? I mean, in Scotland, we'll probably pay about 75 Pence for cucumber $3 little tiny packet house $3. Obviously, it was crazy. So again, I'm very conscious of that, because I've got a family of five. So feeding feed our fat five kids. It's a no, it's not easy. It's not easy feeding everyone and having the time to do so. But that's what again, that's what that picks up about. I mean, the book is definitely Scottish. But the core of that book is about family, family cooking. Well, I

think that's a great point that you went to photograph the dishes. And it wasn't really until you got to that point and said, I've got to get all this stuff. You know, I've had to look at the same thing with my personal chef business because my menu changes literally every day because I cook for different people. And I tried to be fancy and this salad has pecans. And this salad has walnuts and this out as cashews, and then spread out over the course of a week I was buying, like hundreds of things for all these dinners. And it's like, no, I need to streamline this. So the menu says nuts on the salad. Right? Yeah, we're just gonna go with what do I have on hand? This was something that yeah, you know, says streamline the pantry, because having all that stuff is just not realistic. So,

and again, at the beginning of the book, I've got a little note to say, just chill out, you know. So if the recipe says a pound, a pound of ground beef, and you've got a pound and a half, don't separate the half, just get the whole lot and that will make a difference. Leftovers from cooking. You end up with something for lunch. And it won't make a massive difference to the recipe. The only exception to that as as, as you know is when you're doing anything with flour and sugar.

You know, you can't just throw an extra quarter cup of flour and make a pastry expect it to come out. Right. It's a

kind of formula that needs to be followed. So other than that, everything that we she can, you can subtract or add ingredients that you like or don't like. Definitely.

Do you have any final words or anything you want to share with our listeners before we get out of here today?

No, it's just that it's just it's just good fun. Hopefully, I'm in the States a lot do an event. So look me up, give me a shout. My next event is in New Hampshire at the Loon Mountain at the New Hampshire Highland Games up in Lincoln, New Hampshire. So hopefully, hopefully sees then and then I'm back in November, during the Wallace awards on Fifth Avenue for the medical Scottish foundation. So if you're, if you've managed to get to that, it's good to see you. And I might be doing some book signings and things as well in between. Very cool.

Well as always, I put everything in the show notes so people will be able to find you. They'll be able to check out some of your videos. Definitely pick up the cookbook. So I appreciate having you on the show today. It was really great talking to you. Lovely talking to you. Thank you. And as always to our listeners. This has been Chris with the Chefs Without Restaurants podcast. Thanks so much and have a great week. You're still here. The podcast is over. If you are indeed still here. Thanks for taking the time to listen to the show. I'd love to direct you to one place and that's chefs without restaurants.org. From there, you'll be able to join our email newsletter. Get connected in our free Facebook group, and join our personal chef catering and food truck database so I can help get you more job leads. And you'll also find a link to our sponsor page where you'll find products and services I love. You pay nothing additional to use these links, but I may get a small commission which helps keep the Chefs Without Restaurants podcast and organization running. You might even get a discount for using some of these links. As always, you can reach out to me on Instagram at Chefs Without Restaurants or send me an email at chefs without restaurants@gmail.com Thanks so much