German Heritage Baking: Preserving Tradition with Heidrun Metzler

[00:00:00] Chris Spear: Imagine learning to bake in a kitchen where recipes are passed down from generation to generation, often by memory, where a pinch of this or a splash of that might replace standard measuring cups, and where traditions are just as important as ingredients. That's the kind of baking Heidrin Metzler grew up with, and it's exactly the spirit she's bringing to American kitchens with her new cookbook.

[00:00:22] Chris Spear: From apple strudel to black forest cake, Heidrin's recipes carry the flavors of her childhood in Germany, and now she's ready to share her secrets with us. This is Chris Spear, and you're listening to Chefs Without Restaurants, the show where I speak with culinary entrepreneurs and people working in the food and beverage industry outside of a traditional restaurant setting.

[00:00:41] Chris Spear: I have 32 years of working in kitchens, but not restaurants, and currently operate a personal chef service, throwing dinner parties in the Washington, D. C. area. In this episode, we're joined by Heidrin Metzler, who's spent decades preserving her family's baking traditions while adapting them for American home kitchens.

[00:00:58] Chris Spear: Her new book, [00:01:00] German Heritage Baking, isn't just a collection of recipes, it's a tribute to the generations of bakers who taught her to make the most out of what's in season and available. Today, she shares stories of baking with her mother and grandmother, and what it took to adapt those traditional recipes here in the States.

[00:01:15] Chris Spear: She's even added QR codes to her book, so readers can watch her techniques first hand. Whether you're new to baking or a seasoned pastry chef, Hydran's insights and love for authentic baking techniques will make you want to roll up your sleeves and begin experimenting. As always, you'll find links in the show notes to Hydran's book and social media profiles.

[00:01:34] Chris Spear: And there's just two more episodes in this season before we hit 250 episodes and go on a little break. And if you're looking to start or grow a personal chef business, be on the lookout for my new podcast Personal Chef Business Startup Guide, coming in January 2025. You can now follow me on Instagram at Chef Startup for more info.

[00:01:55] Chris Spear: And if you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to subscribe and leave a rating and [00:02:00] review. It really helps us grow. Thanks so much for listening and have a great week. 

[00:02:04] Heidrun Metzler: Hey, welcome to the show. Thanks so much for coming on today. Thank you so much for having me. 

[00:02:10] Chris Spear: So you have a new cookbook coming out, which we're going to be talking about.

[00:02:14] Chris Spear: We're talking about baking and specifically German baking, which I think. Is going to be an interesting one. I, I really don't have any background information. Like I, I have no experience in that. So you're going to teach us a little bit today about German baking. 

[00:02:27] Heidrun Metzler: Yeah, I'd love 

[00:02:28] Chris Spear: to. So I guess, you know, it makes sense to start with your background.

[00:02:32] Chris Spear: I know that you came over to the U. S. when you were young and you picked up a love of baking from your family. So can we start there and just tell me a little bit about your upbringing as it relates to, uh, food and baking? Um, 

[00:02:46] Heidrun Metzler: Yeah, so, uh, my mother is an incredible cook and baker and um, my aunt the same and my grandma too My grandma [00:03:00] always made things just, she called it, Oh, I have that in my feeling or have that in my wrist would be the translation.

[00:03:09] Heidrun Metzler: And, um, my mom said, yeah, she always put stuff together and never looked at the recipe. So she was a hard one to get the recipes from, but you know, it was a lot of wearable stuff she was telling me. And. She actually told me that some of my favorite she makes a we make this Sheet cakes that are made out of sweet yeast dough sort of like a pizza dough except with sugar And then you top it with fruit and crumbs or you just do crumbs whichever you prefer that day.

[00:03:43] Heidrun Metzler: So one Secret she told me that she used to make it in the war. They didn't have Any butter. So she used to make it from fat, either from the pig's fed or the yeast fat. And [00:04:00] that apparently what's making it so silky. 

[00:04:03] Chris Spear: We don't do a lot of that anymore. Like that's no, you know, you used to see more recipes with lard in them.

[00:04:08] Chris Spear: And that's really fallen out of favor. And then you have some of the recipes like from my grandparents generation with like the depression where they move to like margarine or like a Crisco type thing. And some of those recipes I see still prevail. I have trouble with that. I had a recipe a couple weeks ago.

[00:04:26] Chris Spear: I was trying to make and it had margarine in it. I'm like, I can't. I'm just I'm going to do butter in this recipe. 

[00:04:31] Heidrun Metzler: Yeah, exactly. I, I always, you know, there was a time where they said butter is bad for you, eat margarine. I never listened to it. It's like, I can't eat it. And then it turned out it was actually okay.

[00:04:44] Chris Spear: Yeah, yeah, I know. We, it goes back, it goes back and forth every couple of years. Do you find that we, like our generations have less of that intuitive cooking because this is something I hear with everyone I talked to is, you know, everyone's grandmother [00:05:00] cooked by taste and sight and feel and then it almost like jumped and all of a sudden everyone needed like a recipe and a cookbook to follow, um, you know, to be able to do something.

[00:05:11] Chris Spear: What's your take on that? 

[00:05:14] Heidrun Metzler: Yeah, I feel like that too. And especially in baking, I feel like the generate from generation of generation, it's getting more and more lost. And one of the reasons I wrote this book is because I didn't want the recipes to get lost and, um, the ability to put things together. And I encourage creativity in.

[00:05:37] Heidrun Metzler: My book and I want people to experiment and if you just experiment, uh, like don't change out a lot at once experiment a little by little and then see how it tastes and you can't really go wrong that way if you keep the base recipe the same and just change a little bit of something, whatever idea you might have, [00:06:00] like, I often think, oh, this cake might be good with a different fruit or, you know, Yeah, I love baking with liqueurs 

[00:06:09] Chris Spear: do you have a favorite liqueur to use 

[00:06:11] Heidrun Metzler: yeah grandma yeah it's probably my favorite 

[00:06:14] Chris Spear: you have expensive taste 

[00:06:16] Heidrun Metzler: yeah that's what my husband tells me

[00:06:22] Heidrun Metzler: no i i also um use um amaretto. Almond liqueur, chocolate liqueur, orange liqueur. Uh, of course for the black forest cake, you have to use the cherry brandy. And, um, I found an excellent brandy in Oregon. Uh, there's a distillery that makes it just like the German one. It's very hard to find, you know, things that taste just like in Germany or here in the U S.

[00:06:53] Heidrun Metzler: But, um, yeah, one of the reasons I wanted to make this book is, um, My son, [00:07:00] when he got his house and his kitchen, he was about 30. He said, mom, you have to finish this book because I can't find anything that tastes like what you bake. I, I want to bake, you know? And, um, so my idea was. I need to bring this to the states and I, I had a lot of questions from other friends saying, you know, how do you do this?

[00:07:27] Heidrun Metzler: How do you put a cross together? And, and I was going, you don't know how to, I mean, it's like a basic thing. Like, if you read a German. Baking book. It won't even tell you how to put the cross together. It just will say make the crust 

[00:07:43] Chris Spear: I don't know anyone who does baking anymore, you know, like with uh, You can buy your pie crust in the freezer.

[00:07:49] Chris Spear: You can buy a cake mix in the store. I think it is really rare Um, I mean people aren't even cooking. Let's be honest like a dinner. I see all the time, you know pulling like a A frozen [00:08:00] cod out of the freezer and having that for dinner. And I've done that, but I don't think people are making on a regular basis, like a pie or a cake or anything like that.

[00:08:08] Chris Spear: And they just don't have the skill. And if they do, when's the next time they do that? You know, okay. I finally broke out the cookbook. I made this pie. Great. It might be six months before they ever make a pie again. 

[00:08:20] Heidrun Metzler: Yeah, well, that's okay, as long as you, you know, bake it on your, I think there's just something about making your own pie or your own cake.

[00:08:30] Heidrun Metzler: And it's like, hands on, you did it, you made it, you're eating it, it tastes great, and I think you'll be inclined to do it again. 

[00:08:40] Chris Spear: Were these all recipes that you had always made, or did you also feel like you needed to bring in some more to make a bigger book? 

[00:08:49] Heidrun Metzler: Um, well, it, it, It's some of both and I had a bunch of recipes from my aunt and from my mother that I brought over [00:09:00] and then every time I go visit I pick their brains, you know, what, what are you doing?

[00:09:05] Heidrun Metzler: What new recipe are you doing? And, you know, how do you do this? Or I just, Always had questions and um, and they always would go well, which cake do you want me to bake for you?

[00:09:20] Heidrun Metzler: It was great, you know, um, but uh, Yeah going back to your question. Um, so I took these recipes and there were some that I completely love the way they are and some that I changed some things because I wanted them to be a little bit more light or a little bit more moist and, um, so I might take a little bit of flour or add a little bit of milk or, you know, I, it doesn't always.

[00:09:53] Heidrun Metzler: I have to test it a couple of times to get the correct consistency. I get a little obsessional [00:10:00] when, when I want to try something out and I want to get it just the way I want to get it. Um, and, uh, so some of the recipes I did, uh, change a little bit, and sometimes as I'm making it, ideas come to my mind.

[00:10:18] Heidrun Metzler: Um, I, I love marzipan, there isn't any, I don't know if i should be saying that but maybe i should rephrase it and say there's better marzipan in germany 

[00:10:29] Chris Spear: no that's fine like this is this is all about honesty on this podcast we have we have very little i mean if i wanted it i'd go to the store and there's probably one brand right in the grocery store and i don't know the quality of it you know it might be like the commercial grade like roland brand or something like that like i i don't know but i don't think i really have a lot of availability i don't think most people have.

[00:10:51] Chris Spear: A lot of um variety when it comes to something like that. 

[00:10:56] Heidrun Metzler: Yeah, there are a couple of online stores. You can get it [00:11:00] Um at german stores and it's fairly easy to be sent to you um Here in the states if I go to grocery store I always get the almond paste because the almond paste has less sugar and it tastes better to me And I can add a little powdered sugar if I need to Um, and then, you know, essentially that's matzokan Um, so you can also make it yourself.

[00:11:27] Heidrun Metzler: You can take, if you have a nut grinder, it'd be better. But, um, I do it with the handheld coffee mill with a star blade in it, and you just have to not fill it up very much, maybe less than half, and, You keep pulsing and shaking and, and eventually it becomes it's a paste and you take that out and you repeat till you get the amount you want.

[00:11:55] Heidrun Metzler: And then you add in Germany. Sometimes we add rose water, but very, very [00:12:00] little and almond extract. You can add. And powdered sugar and then there you have your marzipan but um Yeah, so one of one of the cakes that came to my mind one day I saw some technique on working the marzipan with the egg yolks and Putting it together and then I thought you know, I could make an almond cake out of this and put raspberries in it and So the raspberry almond tart Is created like that.

[00:12:33] Heidrun Metzler: It came out like that You And, uh, then I put some, um, well, there are slivered almonds and sliced almonds you can get, but you want to get the sliced almonds for that one, and they're very hard to do at home, so I usually buy them. And then I roasted them a little bit in the pan, put them on top, dust it with powdered sugar, um, and it's very good.

[00:12:54] Heidrun Metzler: Uh, recently we had a, uh, a little town, it's called Honoka'a. [00:13:00] And we are on the big island, and we have a macadamia nut farm that annually does their little get togethers with music, and there's a pie contest, you know, cake contest, so I thought, well, I'll make one, and you get macadamia nuts, you know, to make it, and I took that recipe.

[00:13:24] Heidrun Metzler: And half the almonds was half ground macadamia nuts and half almonds. And then I caramelized some whole macadamia nuts and put them on top. And, um, anyway, it was really good. 

[00:13:40] Chris Spear: Well, that makes sense because you're using something that's local to you. You know, you're taking a somewhat traditional recipe, but I mean, I think of Hawaii.

[00:13:48] Chris Spear: I think of macadamia nuts. So that makes sense. 

[00:13:52] Heidrun Metzler: Yeah, and that's how I kind of think I think I I usually take my own recipes [00:14:00] to make something new even if I get an idea from somewhere else, um I always go back to my bases, because I know they work, and I know how to do it, and then it's easy to, to change, but there was one cake, it, it was called, uh, uh, Bailey's Irish Cream Pound Cake, that kept coming up on Pinterest, the picture, and, and I thought, oh, that's a good idea, Bailey's, you know, and, And then I kept thinking, but a pound cake.

[00:14:31] Heidrun Metzler: And so I decided it should be chocolate. So I went back to my moose cake and then derived from the moose cake and the Bailey's and some other things that cause the whipped cream goes in there. Uh, I made the, the Irish chocolate cake. I'm not supposed to say the brand. Um, in my book, so it's, I think everybody knows it's the alcohol.

[00:14:55] Chris Spear: Yeah, most definitely. Um, is there any issue with finding [00:15:00] ingredients, uh, in the States and maybe even specifically where you are in Hawaii? Like when you look at traditional German recipes, like have you, have you had to translate things just because you can't find some products? Like you were mentioning good Marzipan, but what's been your experience overall with making these recipes?

[00:15:20] Heidrun Metzler: Well, I wish I had finer flower here. I, I mean, flower is different in Germany, but I ended up working with one brand because that's the brand I have available here all the time. And I adjusted it. Every recipe is adjusted to that flour. Uh, in Germany, we have a system where the flour gets graded by how much protein is in there and how much minerals.

[00:15:50] Heidrun Metzler: And the way they do it is they burn A hundred grams at 900 degrees and the ash that's left gets measured. And so you end up [00:16:00] with a number like 400, 405, you know, that's the weight that was left. So every miller will have to adhere to those particular. Rules and if you buy four or five, you know, it's for the cakes.

[00:16:18] Heidrun Metzler: If you buy 550, you know, you can do yeast doughs with it. If you buy 1080 or 1050, then you get more and more of the shell of the grain in there, which gets more into the whole wheat and Like rye flowers are usually that high. And then if the entire grain is milled with nothing taken out, then, uh, we just call it whole grain.

[00:16:44] Heidrun Metzler: And everybody knows that's a whole entire grain. So, it's very difficult here in the States because they don't have any of these guidelines. And so, I have to look at all the labels and I tried out different flowers and one flower [00:17:00] will take Even though they are all supposed to be for cake making, they will absorb the water in a different way.

[00:17:08] Heidrun Metzler: So if you made a pound cake, for example, with one flower, it comes out just right. The next time you use another flower from another brand, you should probably add a little more water because that flower absorbs more liquid and whatever the liquid is, it can be the eggs, the milk, or, you know, whatever. All right.

[00:17:32] Heidrun Metzler: But that part, I, I was concerned about just writing in unbleached flour because I thought, well, whatever brand, it's not going to turn out if they buy the wrong brand. So I was challenged with this. Brand mentioning in the book and I ended up consulting with a trademark lawyer To make sure I write it in a way that it is acceptable to do [00:18:00] that And where necessary I did mention the brands in a in a way that falls under um the fair use of trademarks, so but it was the only way I could think of to give the You know to give success for my recipes.

[00:18:22] Heidrun Metzler: So, uh, the other thing that's been hard is the apples Uh the most of the time it's just eating apples that are sold here And they're because I guess people are not as much into baking as in germany You don't have that variety because in germany go to the store and you have the baking apples and the eating apples and the ranettes and the cox oranges and uh the boskop and Braeburn is the only brand here that I can use and Braeburn is a pretty tough apple.

[00:18:56] Heidrun Metzler: So oftentimes you have to Sauté it a little [00:19:00] bit before you use it, just 5 to 10 minutes maybe, and, um, or, you know, if you like the al dente, it's fine. I make it sometimes without doing that, and because I like the crunchiness, it depends on how you like it. 

[00:19:16] Chris Spear: We have an orchard about 15 minutes from us and they have all kinds of varietals that I've never seen in my life and it's great and they have all the signs on them that say great for eating great for baking great for cider making and you go but I mean they're these, you know, funky sometimes gnarly not picturesque, you know, photo photogenic apples.

[00:19:36] Chris Spear: Yeah. They're delicious and I always try and pick up a bunch of different ones to see what I can do with them. 

[00:19:44] Heidrun Metzler: Do you, where do you live in what area? 

[00:19:46] Chris Spear: I'm in Maryland so we have a lot here on the east coast there and this place actually makes one of the things we go for cider so in the season they make alcoholic cider and they're not sweet ciders i mean they have a [00:20:00] little residual sugar but they're not like you know the sweet ones that we have in so many places and then they have the non alcohol all year round that's you know pasteurized for kids and stuff but uh yeah we'll go you know every couple of weekends in the fall and get apples and cider.

[00:20:15] Heidrun Metzler: Yeah, that's what I, when I investigated about the apples, um, the Northeast has different orchard that grow the Europe, European varieties, and there is a couple in California, and I was actually looking into if they get imported here because they have to be approved, agriculturally approved, um, but no one imports them.

[00:20:40] Heidrun Metzler: So, so I'm, I mentioned all of that and, you know, if you're lucky to live in such an area, you can get those and I'll be jealous. 

[00:20:51] Chris Spear: What is your favorite, uh, apple recipe to make? 

[00:20:55] Heidrun Metzler: Well, I like the, um, covered apple cake. That's the. [00:21:00] You know, our German apple pie, basically. And, um, it's, it's the one I grew up with that always was made by my aunt and my mother.

[00:21:11] Heidrun Metzler: And there was always this discussion about, um, whose is better because my aunt was baking it in her gas oven and my mom in her electric oven and the crust turns out different, but they are both equally good. And, um, it was always, it was funny every time, every time. We got together it was this thing about which oven bakes it better 

[00:21:39] Chris Spear: It's the same as like, uh, even in an oven and I know you talk about this in your book like the placement of the oven racks It's amazing how much just where your racks go in the oven how much that impacts, you know, whatever you're making in there 

[00:21:54] Heidrun Metzler: yeah, because um You know, the top can get to brown or the bottom [00:22:00] can get to brown and you got to figure out sometimes even even with me telling you your oven might be different enough where you have to figure it out if it comes out and it's just too brown on the top, then lower it a little bit.

[00:22:16] Heidrun Metzler: I often place a cookie sheet on the very lowest rung just to, to keep it from getting too brown at the bottom. The other, uh, thing I do is I take, um, aluminum foil and make it about an inch or two bigger than the, than the cake pan is. And then about, you know, depends on which cake you're baking, how long you're baking it.

[00:22:43] Heidrun Metzler: But usually when it, when the cake bakes longer, uh, Then an hour, you're probably going to have to put a little bit on, uh, like maybe 15, 20 minutes before it's ready. You have to slide it on top, um, [00:23:00] just so it doesn't get too brown. Uh, the German ovens bake differently. We have over and under heat, so it, it always bakes with both heats.

[00:23:09] Heidrun Metzler: So it's more even. It's more like a even heat, like a convection oven. But if you use convection, you get it in cakes, they kind of turn dry. So. I experiment with a lot of where to place it and how to do which cake needs a pan underneath what needs to be covered. And it's, it's all in the book. Yeah. My mom always said, you have to try out your oven.

[00:23:35] Heidrun Metzler: It's every oven is different. And I recently, after I got done with all the testing and everything, I bought a new oven, it's a German oven that throws out mist while your bread is baking. 

[00:23:47] Chris Spear: That's fancy. 

[00:23:49] Heidrun Metzler: Yeah, and I really wanted it because I know the crust turns out different and, um, so I called her up and I said, Hey, I got a new oven.

[00:23:59] Heidrun Metzler: I got a German [00:24:00] oven. So where do you bake such and such and what wrong? And she's like, Oh, you just have to try it out. Every oven is different 

[00:24:08] Chris Spear: fancy oven and that no help there. 

[00:24:11] Heidrun Metzler: Yeah Because she bakes Her cheesecake on the very bottom and if I did that in my oven I end up with a very dark Crust, I mean it'd just be too dark 

[00:24:26] Chris Spear: Do you bake your cheesecake in a water bath.

[00:24:29] Heidrun Metzler: I don't but I heard of people doing 

[00:24:31] Chris Spear: that. I think that's most of the recipes I see to be honest is making cheesecake in a water bath unless you're doing, you know, now everyone's doing the, um, Basque kind of burnt cheesecake, which is a dry heat and a higher one. Do you know what I'm talking about? The dark cheese?

[00:24:46] Chris Spear: No, no. Oh, it's like been a trend for like the past five years or so. It almost looks burnt like caramelized, but I did 

[00:24:54] Heidrun Metzler: see that like, and 

[00:24:57] Chris Spear: usually they do put they put like parchment paper. So they're like [00:25:00] line a cake pan with parchment and put it in and blast it in the bottom. It almost actually made one.

[00:25:05] Chris Spear: It was delicious. But my mother in law said to me. This was delicious. It's just such a shame that you, you burned and I was like, and I was like, no, like really, it's supposed to be like that. And I don't think she believed me, but I was like, no, this is, this is how you're supposed to make it. 

[00:25:19] Heidrun Metzler: I did see that picture and I have to admit, I thought the same thing.

[00:25:26] Heidrun Metzler: And you can do that with my cheesecake. If you don't cover it, it will get burned. But I don't, I preferred. I mean, I wouldn't think the skin would taste good. 

[00:25:36] Chris Spear: It was supposedly a Spanish, I guess, like a Basque thing, and I don't know who popularized it in the past few years, but it's something that I'm seeing on menus all the time now, and I actually really don't, I don't know who popularized that, but I feel like it came out of nowhere, and all of a sudden you see it everywhere now, so.

[00:25:54] Chris Spear: Yeah, if you saw a picture of when I did it, that was intentional. Yes. 

[00:25:58] Heidrun Metzler: Yeah. Okay. [00:26:00]

[00:26:00] Chris Spear: I think one of the things really that's interesting is your book uses QR codes that go to videos, which is something I've seen maybe in like three or four books. Um, where did you like, what, what made you want to do that with your, um, cookbook?

[00:26:15] Heidrun Metzler: Well, actually it was a suggestion my son had and he wanted me to, to do QR codes for shopping lists. And, and I just, you can only get so much on a page, you know, and so I thought of, you know, it'd be great for that, for people to see me do it. Hey, and so on. I learn better when I see something. And. And I like video making I make a lot of videos and so, you know, it takes a time but my goal is to have a video for at least for every Type so my book is organized By doe types and so I [00:27:00] organized my vimeo video by doe types chap Showcases it's called there.

[00:27:05] Heidrun Metzler: So I have a showcase for each chapter. So when you look in there you can find You All the instructions for everything. So I, I'm hoping to get a video up for each item that I bake. And I think so far we have at least one item in each one of them that describes how to make that particular dough in that chapter.

[00:27:28] Chris Spear: Now, did you record these all just for the book or did you already have some of these done? 

[00:27:35] Heidrun Metzler: No, I recorded them for the book. It's a 

[00:27:38] Chris Spear: lot 

[00:27:38] Heidrun Metzler: of work 

[00:27:39] Chris Spear: on top of doing the book, right? I mean, I know just trying to do like the short form videos because now it's like, oh, make videos, cooking videos, post them on social media.

[00:27:47] Chris Spear: Uh, And it's like, ah, this was, this was a lot. It took like five hours to make this 20 second video. So yeah, kudos to you for going the extra mile. 

[00:27:57] Heidrun Metzler: Yeah, and I can't really [00:28:00] teach anything in 20 seconds. And so I, I usually go for 30 seconds and they give you the analytics. And it looks like, you know, it dives, like they don't watch the whole 30 seconds, but the 

[00:28:14] Chris Spear: flip side is, is I did a video the other day and I got it down to 30 seconds because I thought that's what it's one.

[00:28:20] Chris Spear: And then I w it was flagged for not quality content, which what does that even mean? Have you been on the internet? There's it's like almost exclusively not quality content. I watched someone videotape his cat eat a plastic bag yesterday. Like that's quality content. But, um, That's the world we're living in again, you know, do the video or, or get left behind.

[00:28:42] Heidrun Metzler: Uh, actually I saw, I just started a YouTube channel because like you said, a lot of the, I used to not like the thumbs down. I had a lot of my horse videos. And I'd get thumbs down on these elaborate, I have trick horses. So we put [00:29:00] costumes on and do tricks and people go thumbs down. And I'm like, you know, I'm tired of this.

[00:29:07] Heidrun Metzler: Like you have a horse that sits on a hay bale. 

[00:29:10] Chris Spear: Just wait till the food. Cause the food people are brutal. I spent the past two days arguing with random strangers, which probably wasn't my time, but you know, people just, Um, it's the nature of the internet and social media and videos and stuff. But no, you have to just keep putting those videos out on YouTube.

[00:29:27] Heidrun Metzler: Yeah, and then Vimeo, of course, I have all the showcases. So you can just Google me and find it. 

[00:29:35] Chris Spear: So. Do you have some beginner recipe? Like if someone's, let's say, new to baking, they didn't grow up baking with their family, this sounds like an interesting book and they pick it up. Where do you suggest they start?

[00:29:48] Chris Spear: Are there some really good starter recipes that will help people build their confidence and say, Oh, wow, this wasn't as hard as I thought. 

[00:29:56] Heidrun Metzler: Yeah, I mean, you can already tell how involving [00:30:00] something is when you read the recipe, but recently, um, I have a webpage, hightornmetzo. com, and you can also find, uh, the newsletter that I've sent out in the past under resources.

[00:30:13] Heidrun Metzler: And the last one I sent out had a coconut macaroon recipe on it, which I thought was probably one of the easiest recipes you can make. And, um, so you could start there. Cookies are always fun. Um, and so I had to split up my book into two books, volume one and two, because it, it got too large. For, uh, mailing and printing and the price and everything.

[00:30:42] Chris Spear: So you'll have another book coming then? 

[00:30:45] Heidrun Metzler: Yeah. 

[00:30:46] Chris Spear: That's exciting. 

[00:30:47] Heidrun Metzler: Yeah. The second book will have all the pound cakes, quick parts, like you call them. But yeah, on book one, I would say it also depends on if you're, if [00:31:00] you're kind of creative and. You know, you, you like creating with your hands, then I think you're good with more complicated things.

[00:31:11] Heidrun Metzler: Like the Linzer tort, you just have to have a grinder or by very, the problem that I found is, so when I first started baking here, they had almond meal and almond flour, and now it's really hard to find. Almond meal because the almond meal is a little bit coarser, but the al the almond flour is just too fine and it makes the cake more dense and then it doesn't work.

[00:31:41] Heidrun Metzler: So I, I actually grind my own almond meal. Um, I have a KitchenAid that has an attachment and it works just fine. So if you're interested in that, you could. Use ground almonds and ground hazelnuts and then butter and [00:32:00] it's basically put together like a short crust And then you roll it out Spread your raspberry jam or the um, the red currant jam So, uh, and then you just make a lattice with it, you know, and put a lattice on top.

[00:32:19] Chris Spear: I like how you just said just just make a lattice like that's something that seems daunting to me just to make a lattice. I think I need to work on my skills because uh, I don't know that that seems a little Like next level from where i'm at and i'm sure it is for some people but uh practice right?

[00:32:38] Chris Spear: You just got to practice it 

[00:32:40] Heidrun Metzler: Well, it's, you, you roll it out like you would your crust, but then you take this, you can buy these little wheels, and you just go and do strips, and then you start at one end with a shorter strip, and you, you put them across. [00:33:00] And then you take the other side of what you just cut, and you start with the short end on the other side, so you get this diagonal thing going.

[00:33:11] Heidrun Metzler: And that, that's the easiest lattice you can do. 

[00:33:15] Chris Spear: So is there anything that you feel we haven't talked about today that you want to let your listeners know about either your book or just German baking in general before we get out of here today? 

[00:33:26] Heidrun Metzler: Yeah, I think for, for now, until the book comes out, if, if they, uh, if bakers want to bake, I think consider a couple of things.

[00:33:37] Heidrun Metzler: One is when you measure your flour. Shake off, like dip their cup in their flour bag and then shake off the top. So it's in between three quarters to full because too much flour in, in the batter is really hard to take care of. But if you have a little bit less and you save some for the end, [00:34:00] then you can always add easier.

[00:34:02] Heidrun Metzler: If you end up with having to put more liquid in, then you get this lumpy mess and you might over mix your cake. The other thing, which has happened to me, is take two bowls when you separate your egg yolks and your egg whites. And make sure the egg yolks go in the bowl first before you put them in your kitchen mixer bowl or somewhere.

[00:34:30] Heidrun Metzler: I have cracked eggs in directly in my bowl. The last one was rotten. I could throw out everything. 

[00:34:38] Chris Spear: I've also had problems where if you're separating them too, like sometimes you need just a white or just a yolk. And if you're separating, I've sometimes stuck them together. Tried separating over the bowl and then like the yolk breaks and now I've got egg yolk and something that's just supposed to have egg white in it.

[00:34:52] Chris Spear: That's no good. 

[00:34:54] Heidrun Metzler: Exactly. Yeah. And then experiment with [00:35:00] putting an extra pan underneath if you bake your cake for a long time. You know, over an hour. So your crust doesn't get brown. What else? Uh, oh, your egg and your butter needs to be at room temperature most of the time, unless you do one of those crusts, the short crust.

[00:35:19] Heidrun Metzler: You do want the cold butter and the cold egg, but if you do anything else, like a pound cake or anything, you want it room temperature. When you get that kind of grizzly looking butter, when you mix it, because your butter wasn't. You know, all the temperatures have to be the same and you wanted room temperature.

[00:35:37] Chris Spear: I usually will bring my butter up to room temperature, but I think the thing I, I don't do enough of is the eggs, even though like every recipe says room temperature eggs, always like, how bad is it? Just pull the eggs out of the fridge and go. Uh, so I think that's something I probably need to focus more on since it's in literally every baking recipe I ever see.

[00:35:57] Heidrun Metzler: Yeah, also, if you forget the eggs, you [00:36:00] can put them in warm water for about five minutes and I've learned that trick recently. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, and, you know, the other thing when you do a complicated cake, like, for example, the black forest cake, you can make the cake part the day before. And then the next day, you can fill it.

[00:36:20] Heidrun Metzler: You can even cook the, uh, cherry filling up the day before, put it in the fridge, and then you just, all you have to do is put it together the next day, which is I that's the way i do it because it's a couple of hours if you do it all in one day 

[00:36:36] Chris Spear: that's that's more my style i rarely make a cake and in one day in one sitting yes 

[00:36:43] Heidrun Metzler: but you know the cheesecake is actually pretty fast it's amazing how fast it is.

[00:36:50] Chris Spear: Well, everyone loves cheesecake. So that might move to the top of my list of things to try out of the book there. Well, thanks for coming on the show. It's been great talking to you today. 

[00:36:59] Heidrun Metzler: Yeah, [00:37:00] thanks, Chris, for inviting me. It was fun talking with you. 

[00:37:03] Chris Spear: And I put everything in the show notes so people will be able to find your book and find you on social media and watch your videos, whether it be cooking videos or baking videos or horse videos.

[00:37:13] Chris Spear: Well, we're gonna give you some thumbs up on some horse videos. 

[00:37:16] Heidrun Metzler: Yeah, they actually, you know, did away with the thumbs down now in YouTube after a lot of complaining from people. So that was good. I 

[00:37:25] Chris Spear: didn't realize that. Yeah. Thumbs up or nothing. 

[00:37:28] Heidrun Metzler: Yeah. 

[00:37:29] Chris Spear: Yeah. All right. 

[00:37:30] Heidrun Metzler: Much better. 

[00:37:33] Chris Spear: You're still here? The podcast's over.

[00:37:36] Chris Spear: If you are indeed still here, thanks for taking the time to listen to the show. I'd love to direct you to one place, and that's chefswithoutrestaurants. org. From there, you'll be able to join our email newsletter. Get connected in our free Facebook group and join our personal chef, catering, and food truck database so I can help get you more job leads.

[00:37:55] Chris Spear: And you'll also find a link to our sponsor page, where you'll find products and services I love. You pay [00:38:00] nothing additional to use these links, but I may get a small commission, which helps keep the Chefs Without Restaurants podcast and organization running. You might even get a discount for using some of these links.

[00:38:09] Chris Spear: As always, you can reach out to me on Instagram at chefswithoutrestaurants, or send me an email at chefswithoutrestaurants at gmail. com. Thanks so much.