Learn About the Personal Chef Business with Chef Matt Collins

Chris Spear: 1:32

Welcome to the Chefs Without Restaurants podcast. I'm your host Chris Spear. On the show. I have conversations with culinary entrepreneurs and people in the food and beverage industry who took a different route. Their caterers, research chefs, personal chefs, cookbook authors, food truckers, farmers, cottage bakers, and all sorts of culinary renegades. I myself fall into the personal chef category as I started my own personal chef business perfect little bites 10 years ago. On this week's show, I have Matt Collins, Matt's been cooking since he was a child. In fact, his mom had hopes of him becoming a child cooking star. After graduating from the Culinary Institute of America, he took his career to New York City becoming a sous chef at 21 years old working for the Smith Keene steakhouse, Wolfgang Puck and Smith and Wollensky. He continued his education in Europe, including time at Institute Paul Bocuse. After a decade working in New York City, he decided to take what he'd learned back to his hometown where he started chef Collins events, a personal chef business that specializes in customized dinners and pop up events. As a personal chef myself, I really love to dig in to see both the similarities and differences in our business models. We talked for a long time, like over two hours and had to cut out a lot of crazy sidebars. I think this conversation is great for anyone who's already a personal chef or looking to become one. There's also a lot of value if you have any type of food business. We talked about topics such as client acquisition, marketing, customer demographics, what to charge and being able to satisfy yourself creatively. We also discussed sourcing products, managing your time and money creation. hear about his non traditional photoshoot, and learn who really created mcgriddles I want to give a quick shout out to our newest Patreon supporter, Scott Thompson. If you're listening, Scott, thanks so much. I really appreciate it. And if you'd like to be like Scott, you can find out more@patreon.com forward slash Chefs Without Restaurants. Right now I have some recipes up on the page. And there's more to come soon. And thank you to this week's sponsor, olive and basket with more than 30 each oils and vinegars Olive and basket is my go to for specialty food items. They also have seasoning blends sauces, jams, pasta, honeys, mustards, gift baskets, and so much more. This weekend, I picked up some smoked olive oil and a lemon cucumber vinegar. I don't think I've ever had anything I didn't like from their shop. Sharon and Cindy do a great job curating a wide selection of items that are loved by both professional chefs and home cooks. Located in Frederick, Maryland, their shop is at 5231 buches. town Pike, you can order all their products online and have them shipped directly to your house. Go to Olive and basket.com. And the link is in the show notes. And now on with the show. Thanks so much for listening and have a great week. Hey, Matt, welcome to the show. How's it going?

Matt Collins: 4:19

Good, Chris, thanks so much for having me.

Chris Spear: 4:20

Thanks for coming on. It's uh, I'm excited to talk to you. We first met I guess because you came on as kind of a listener to the Chefs Without Restaurants podcast. I guess that's how I found you or vice versa.

Matt Collins: 4:31

Yeah, I can't, I can't pinpoint exactly. But yeah, definitely started listening to show and have enjoyed it. And then I guess it helps your closing every week. Really, if you want to be on the show, just talk to me and then are just from interacting with each other. So thank you.

Chris Spear: 4:45

You're welcome. Well, you know, as a personal chef myself, I want to reach out, you know, I love all people who are doing different things in the food world. But for me, you know, when I get to talk to a personal chef, because it's also education for me, I want to hear about what you're doing and what works and what doesn't work. So it's For all those listening, Matt does have a personal chef business and we'll get into that a little bit. But why don't we backtrack a bit I want to learn about you and food. How did you get into food and cooking? Were you always a lover of all things? Delicious?

Matt Collins: 5:14

Yeah, it took a while to get to the delicious part. But my relationship with food was was good. No one my family was that great of a cook. My parents had separated when I was pretty young. And so I started just, I don't know, I guess copying like chocolate pan or Emerald or whatever, and just trying to cook. And then I guess I had my mother tried to turn me into like a cash cow. Like very unsuccessfully, like, I guess this is before like Flynn, McGarry, she wanted me to have like some like, kid chef book thing. And so but she her approach was awful and actually made me not like cooking for a while. Or she would go to like the doctor's office and get like one of those like cooking magazines and try to get me to recreate it and take the picture on this awful photo and like an awful picture to like pitch it to somebody. And I was like very adamant about not doing it. And then it became this weird project she tried to do for a while and then luckily for me, she gave up.

Chris Spear: 6:09

That's the most amazing weird story that's ever kicked off this podcast. I didn't know anything about that almost like you were like a Hollywood kid. But

Matt Collins: 6:17

the book never even got pitch and everything got finished. It was like this binder of papers with like highlights and scribbles and these like bad printed like four by six photos. And it really made me not like cooking, because it just like sucked the joy out of it. And it's actually a story I didn't think of until I was speaking to somebody the other day. Yeah, then luckily for me, I was like a Boy Scout and stuff. So you know, we had pig roast and cooked like kickball camping and then that kind of got me back into I do like doing this and then my culinary program in high school and I went to CIA when I was like 17 did you do pig roast when you were in Boy Scouts? Yeah, yeah, upstate New York. Wow, that's

Chris Spear: 6:56

hardcore. I'm an Eagle Scout myself and I never did anything that cool. I mean, we did some pretty cool stuff but never a pig roast.

Matt Collins: 7:01

Yeah, there was a guy who I guess like the scout leader he had a nice real nice cabin upstate New York and he do a pig roast once a year and you know we'd all help out do stuff and that actually was unbeknownst to me like an introduction to a lot of different kinds of food because you stop it really interesting. specialty shops up the way like cheese marks and stuff. So I remember like Yarl's Burg Swiss and like summer sausage, and yeah, I mean, like I guess as like a 12 year old kid. That's really your, I guess, in a nicer introduction to like charcuterie and cheese compared to like a lunchable.

Chris Spear: 7:36

It sounds like you got a much better food experience and Boy Scouts than I did. In fact, I remember when I went to culinary school prior to my scout leader made some, almost like a dig to I guess my dad that like, Oh, well Chris never even showed interest in cooking. When we were on scout trips. I can't believe he's gonna be a chef, like some weird bullshit like that. That still resonates with me, but I don't know,

Matt Collins: 7:54

me and my friends. We did try to take claim to the fact that we invented the mcgriddle sandwich. Obviously, my name is Matt. So like we jokingly put a syrup m on it. This is years before McDonald's came out with it. It was like a pancake sandwich that we did in a cabin trip once in the winter, like it was so much snow. There's nothing to do. So we ate a lot that day. But we obviously didn't have the lawyers as you know, middle school aged kids eventually down the road to sue McDonald's but we call like, you know, we didn't specify the maple syrup and put it in the bond. I guess it was like fried Adria. But the basic concept I think somehow they were watching us and they know that we invented the mcgriddle sandwich is

Chris Spear: 8:35

Ron Adria, ever purified maple syrup? I wonder?

Matt Collins: 8:39

I don't know. I remember one of his books. I feel like did he come up with like Cool Ranch Doritos. I could be making this up. But I think he worked for a lot of like r&d after elbulli close and I think or even in the offseason. And I think he actually did work for a lot of like fast food brands developing like flavor profiles and extracts and stuff.

Chris Spear: 8:57

So you went to CIA? For culinary correct?

Matt Collins: 9:02

Yeah, I did. I went when I was like a day or two after I turned 17. I love to get you when you're young, I guess.

Chris Spear: 9:09

Well, I had heard at some point they were making you have industry experience before you When was that the case when you went?

Matt Collins: 9:15

I want to say they chopped that in about 2005. I did have experience I worked at Pardon me. I worked at a couple restaurants in New Jersey, doing like unpaid internships and, and whatnot. And I had a culinary program in my high school. So I had like a letter of recommendation from that person. And I had like a couple 100 hours of like experience from the restaurant there. They might have even gotten rid of it months before I applied. But either way I had it covered. So I wasn't that worried. But interesting experience like you discussing the Hogwarts Griffin door did feel like going to Hogwarts. The school. You know if you've ever been there. It's very unique looking. Yeah,

Chris Spear: 9:58

I've never been there. Everyone says you Have to go especially people who don't realize there's like Johnson and Wales CIA rivalry like, have you ever gone up to Hyde Park? Like Don't even say Culinary Institute? Like they know that I know what they're talking about, like, No, I've never been like, I mean, and I don't really care about rivalry, like, I would totally go, I just haven't gotten around to going.

Matt Collins: 10:17

Well, I don't know. I don't even know if there's really a rivalry anymore, because I almost thought it would be like this, like, insane, like, fraternal brotherhood, like the Illuminati. But in reality, if you're outside of the big city more times than not, if someone is a CIA grad, they don't want to give you a job. If you're in a city, they're like, Oh, great. This guy is gonna you know, like tornado potatoes that like my French restaurant, cuz I'm Daniel blue. Yeah, we want that person. But if you go outside of the major city, like in New Jersey, anyone who wants to see is like, Oh, yeah, I would say and I'm like, I did too. So you're thinking like, good and not like, Oh, no, I don't want to give you a job. Like you're you're you don't know anything. You're dork. You were neckerchief.

Chris Spear: 10:53

That's so tough. But I found not exactly the same thing. But you know, when I went to Johnson wells, they talked about how much like credibility and prestige there was, but I moved to Seattle. And I remember like, no one knew what it was like, I went and did interviews and people like Johnson wells that like your local community college. I'm like, I spent like $200,000 and have a bachelor's in culinary like, no, it's not a, you know, like, What are you talking about? How do you not understand this? It's like one of the top two. This was 1998. It's like, there's only two culinary schools. And that's one of them. Well, you actually, you did go to Europe, didn't you?

Matt Collins: 11:27

I did later. Yeah, I saved that money for a while. And then I got a good credit line. And I maxed out a bunch of credit cards in about 2015 or 2014, maybe once a year for a couple months. And I had a good time.

Chris Spear: 11:42

Were you getting paid to work there? Or was it all unpaid staging,

Matt Collins: 11:46

it was a few unpaid stoppages. I networked enough in the city that I was able to get like, a couple different tours and audit some classes that the public who's in this institute and they all and I made it pretty sick list of like restaurants to hit up. So I got to get like all the classical places, like, you know, I ate it like Paul, because this restaurant remember, like crying while I was eating like the truffle soup. And the thing because like, it felt like surreal. Like, I felt like I wasn't supposed to be there. So it was like really, really odd. But it was a great trip.

Chris Spear: 12:17

So you jumped right into working in New York City after culinary school? Is that right?

Matt Collins: 12:22

Yeah, about a year after I really back to planning, I didn't really plan so I didn't get an internship anywhere because the money they offer you after Korean school was not good. And, you know, taking out the loans for school, it was like, well, I can't go work for dynax group and make, you know, 750 $8 an hour and be able to pay my bills or whatever. So I kind of went back to New Jersey did odd jobs and whatnot. And then eventually, I got a call from a friend saying he wanted to go to India for a couple months. Can you work at the restaurant I work at and whatever. And then I ended up working there for like a year. And then that's how I got kind of got like my foot in the door. Sounds very entitled. It was literally like, handed to me with a phone call. Hey, come work soundstation at Smith one skis for a couple ones. And I showed up and they liked me enough that they kept me.

Chris Spear: 13:15

Did you have a favorite place you worked at in New York, or someplace that you learn the most?

Matt Collins: 13:21

Well, I guess I guess it was favorite, but maybe more for the post work activities. I worked at a really small restaurant called despite in Midtown that closed a couple years ago, the chef's now at La food in New York, his name's on the heat med. He used to work at like Lespinasse. He was like really close with Greg Coons for a long time. So it was like that last of like, kind of the old school. Well, they're still old school guys, but they're not as frequent anymore. You have a lot of this newer, newer generation. So that was a restaurant that was really kind of blew my mind. I was really happy to work at. And you know, the new restaurants really great. So if you're ever in New York, you should definitely you should definitely go.

Chris Spear: 14:01

So you started your own personal chef business, like a year ago. Is that right?

Matt Collins: 14:06

Yeah, you're in Shane, like a year and a half like October 2019.

Chris Spear: 14:10

What made you do that? And at that time,

Matt Collins: 14:13

I was approaching like nine and a half years in New York. I just left the restaurant. I was running for two years. That was definitely like my favorite job I've ever had. Obviously, you know, all jobs are still challenging to an extent. So there was times that you know, you're stressed out but in hindsight, like, that's the job that got away in the job. I loved that. If someone was like, What job would you have for the rest of your life? It was that job. I really loved it. I took a job somewhere else. It was tackling executive sous chef but the chef was never there. really got thrown in a bad situation. I really didn't like it. My father passed away and then I ended up quitting that job. Mostly just through disdain of the business, like, I still want to work six, seven days a week. Like I didn't go to the funeral, I didn't do any of that kind of stuff. And then literally, I still got like, no support. So I was just kind of like really, like, done. And then I was doing a little restaurant consulting, and I got a lot of kidney stones. So I had to go to the hospital and get flushed out a bunch of kidney stones lasered out of me, and it just made me feel like really, really tired. So I was like, emotionally and mentally tired. And then there's like, all these other feelings of just like, you know, how am I gonna pay my $2,000 a month rent, all my bills are stacking up, like, I don't have any leads. Like, it's a weird time of year, my lease is ending. So I kind of just went into like, full like, fuck you New York mode where I was like, I don't, I looked around, I didn't see anything that was going to make me happy. or anything, I was motivated enough to make me happy. So I decided to move back to New Jersey, where I was from, I was taking care of a sick family member for a little bit. And then I decided to start this business because I couldn't think of a restaurant that I wanted to work at, if that makes any sense. I did one cooking job at a country club for a couple months. And I was like, this is like, the last thing I want to do is be chopping up a hot dog with scrambled eggs at six o'clock in the morning for the same guy every day. And yeah, so this business ended up starting from speaking to someone who worked there who wanted to do dinner parties in the offseason.

Chris Spear: 16:34

Had you ever done this on the side at all? Because I've talked a lot about like, I did this on the side while I had a job. It sounds like you kind of just jumped right into this.

Matt Collins: 16:42

Well, you were very, very smart. You planned it out. You got a client list and all that stuff, not saying I did it poorly. I knew I wanted to start some sort of like very small restaurant at some point. But obviously I don't have the funds to throw down like $800,000 or whatever. I'm like a closet sized restaurant somewhere down the shore to just do small dinners like Thursday, Friday, Saturday. So this, we were discussing this idea in the offseason, meeting a friend of mine, the guy I worked with, and then when push came to shove, I asked him if you want to do and he's like, No, I'm like, kind of really busy. I don't want to do it. So I tried to figure out what, what was definitely gonna hurt the business, what was going to streamline stuff, and what was going to be what something I would want to attend in New Jersey. And luckily for me, a lot of the customers that I've had are people who are like, Oh, I used to live in this city, or I used to work in especially now at COVID. I used to work in the city and I have anniversary and I didn't, I wanted to do something special. And so that's like, I'm really lucky that I took the time to kind of kind of sand it all down. But I did jump into it very quickly. I did my first public dinner like a month after I launched like my website and Instagram and stuff.

Chris Spear: 17:53

Well, that's not bad. So what was your first dinner? And how did I want to talk about client acquisition in general? Like how do you find your customers? Or how do they find you?

Matt Collins: 18:03

So when I started the business, I did everything you're supposed to I did like a Yelp. I actually was really late on the Google page set up. I didn't do that for about six or seven months, I thought it automatically would appear from setting everything else up. But I tried to get myself as many different pages. So I was doing event bright ticket sales, yell, Google my own website, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. So I just wanted to have a good spread. And I guess I find clients by just being like, relentless. Like I'm really bad with Instagram. I'm like on there all the time. So I have no shame. I'll tell everybody exactly what I do. I used to when restaurants were open, go to restaurants that I thought were you know, one of the better restaurants in New Jersey within 45 minutes of me. And I would just like every photo of everyone who ate there until my account got shut down. So when I first started Instagram, my account would get locked all the time for like a week and people like Matt, you're not posting like, I'm locked. I'm locked out. And people were like, why? And so since COVID I do that now. We're like surrounding towns by me. So I don't have like a spreadsheet of like these towns on Monday. He sounds on Tuesday. I'm not that committed to it. But if I'm like oh I like someone mentions a town to me. Oh hey, I'm from I'm from Long Branch. I'm like I haven't like spammed Long Branch in a while. And I'll go down the list and then once in a blue moon I get a call from someone from a town and I'm like I must have liked this person picture and they must have checked out my my stuff and now I'm you know doing a you know a 15 person party making enough money for the week because I was swiping on Instagram on the toilet. Not paying attention. You know, I mean, I do get very strange dm sometimes from like, radical people with radical ideas. I'm like, Oh no, dude, I just liked the picture because you posted it in my hometown. Yeah, trying to join your your, your Colts or or whatever. You know, I don't want to buy the the your your finger painting, but sorry. So I get really weird DMS all the time. I actually one concert tickets to This

Chris Spear: 20:01

well I've never won tickets during that, but I do the same thing I mean that but really that makes sense. Like in town you know we have volt restaurant Bryan Voltaggio, like really well known. And it's like if I want my experience to be on par with something like that, like who are the people who are going to a fine dining restaurant who spend over $100 ahead who are looking for that kind of thing. So it's very easy to go and just like find the volt page or hashtags, or people who check in for, you know, the location and then just go on and start liking their photos and commenting on their photos. And I guess maybe it is kind of weird that a random strangers like that turbo dish looks delicious, and then just like bounce out, but that's what I did.

Matt Collins: 20:37

It helps you're like indirectly Inception like planting a seed in their mind like this couldn't be you. And like, I tried to be super accessible, like my pricing, I believe is very similar to yours, where it is accessible, where literally like, anyone can get it. I've done dinners in one bedroom apart like studio apartments, I've done them in townhouses. I've done them in crazy, whatever size four or five car garage mansions for whatever reason, I don't know why you have them in your garages. You know, it's about finding that access, trying to get people to understand what you want to do. Like I don't do the most cutting edge food by any means. But you know, compared to like a wedding hall, or a golf course, or a diner in this area, maybe my food looks better, or maybe my food tastes better. Or maybe there's a little more nuance, and therefore it's about trying to find people who are interested in having that cuisine and not going to the same restaurant they love to three times a week, for the last couple years. Even if it is a great restaurant, they do love it because that's my one of my favorite things is you have a client and they tell you, they just happened a couple weeks ago. And they're like, I go to this one restaurant. Have you been how's a guy went last I really liked it. And they're like, I go three, four times a week. It's my favorite restaurant. So you have these people and yeah, they go to the restaurant, three, four times a week, but they're, which is a good restaurant, but they're, you know, they're interested in finding something else they like, and to be able to have the dinner in their home, to be able to have that extra couple glasses of wine or cocktails or whatever are not, you know, just be able to have me clean up take the trash out and walk out the door is like a good experience. And that's like what I tried to set up and when I when I tried the offer, like from the start,

Chris Spear: 22:17

or your customer is pretty adventurous with trying new things or and how do you stay satisfied and interested in what you're doing? Like I'll say, you know, my customers will try some new things, but it usually tends to be like appetizers, maybe desserts, but like entrees tend to be like we want a ribeye or a crab cake or a rack of lamb and I can't get them to do something more interesting. Like what are you finding?

Matt Collins: 22:42

Somehow surf and turf is the pinnacle of food in in New Jersey. It's like no one saw chef, it's my molten chocolate cake.

Chris Spear: 22:50

It's not just New Jersey. It's everywhere. It's everywhere. Like fancy dinner. We're spending $100 I want to Philemon Yon like I hear it all the time.

Matt Collins: 22:58

Oh, the flaming arms and easy trick around if anyone says swimming on like, I'll do a better cut of steak.

Chris Spear: 23:05

That's still not a super interesting thing.

Matt Collins: 23:07

Yeah, it's not even that's not interesting. It's just not good.

Chris Spear: 23:10

Yeah.

Matt Collins: 23:10

So I'm like, I don't want to be like even if you like flaming on I don't want to have to overpay for flaming on cookie flaming on have it not be good. And then it's my fault. Yeah, I mean, like I'm sure there's people who make a flaming on, they somehow managed to make it delicious. I have no energy in my life to try to figure out how to make flaming neon delicious. I'd rather just use a cut of meat that is already delicious.

Chris Spear: 23:35

My move is I know a lot of people don't like fat. And that's why they don't like prime rib and ribeye, but I'll get a ribeye. And then I'll cut the fat and the rib eye roll piece off. And then I'll render out the fat and then you have that nice circular piece of the center of the ribeye. And then just cook it and ribeye fat. And then I have like scrap, you know, ribeye roll for me to eat.

Matt Collins: 23:56

I trimmed down the revised they don't get like the whole piece that all that fats, trim the fat surrender down for another application, the leftover meats, obviously what I eat, and I mean, and then, you know, you kind of figure it out. And then you know if I'm buying extra than, you know, if I have a dinner The next day, or within the next couple days that I can use that scrap to do like, Oh, they wanted steak tartare or something, trim it up, you know, buy that one cut me because I don't really use distributors super often, or order from a restaurant often. So it's it's kind of interesting to source products because I try I can't promise something I can't get my hands on.

Chris Spear: 24:36

Oh 100% I mean, that's the hardest thing for me. I find seafood is the hardest. Like I know if you want a rack of lamb or ribeye or something, you're always going to get it but people want these fish menus. It's like well, if you're planning a dinner three months from now, I can't guarantee like I know I can get salmon like I won't serve like tilapia, but like what are the fish that you can always, always get? You know, I can always get snapper, but like I can't tell you that I can get rock Fish or sea bass or I can get, you know, roughy or whatever. That's been one of the challenges.

Matt Collins: 25:05

I'll say seasonal fish. And then they'll try to narrow it down. And then I'll see if I can do it. And then anytime people want us fish that isn't super common, or I know, ebbs and flows, I'll try not to, like commit to it, if that makes any sense. Because it's just it's just, it's just difficult. Like, luckily, there's a couple good fish markets over here. There's a big, like a local vendor that typically has everything. But sometimes you go to these people, and they're just like, Oh, yeah, no, I don't want to order that. I'm like, you get it from you get it from the Fulton fish market. You can't just tack on like a box of ooni for me or something else. And it's like a big eye roll where I'm like, it sounds like really frustrating. Like, it shouldn't be a pain. But it's something I've had a lot of hurdles with, but I've never been that stressed about seafood. You know, if I say seasonal crudo and then I don't like any of the fish in stock. Like, you know, scallops are always around like they're a great substitute.

Chris Spear: 26:09

It's usually when I have a customer who wants it as their center of the plate for the entree, and like maybe you have like a shellfish allergy. So they want this like very big list of like fish filets to choose from like shellfish again, like you can probably get every single kind every time. But like, what is that fillet of fish that you can get? Like, it's just hard to sometimes check that out.

Matt Collins: 26:31

Yeah, well also to like, a lot of the fish you can get all the time sometimes it doesn't have a name that people want. You know, I mean, like, no one wants cod fish. I think of like, you know, Peter Pan Captain Hook, like no one wants to eat it, but it's a great fish and if you have a, you know, a piece of cod fish wrapped in pursuit Oh, I mean, are you really going to be that upset? It's not monkfish, right. I'm not going to tell you it's monkfish. If it's not I'm going to be honest and say what it is on the plate. But like, you know, I mean, like not every grocery stores has freshman fish. They'll have that monk fish that you can tell was a freezer burned because that skin is so thick that it's you know been in the freezer for God knows how long like a year.

Chris Spear: 27:14

So do you drive around to a whole bunch of grocery stores and markets to do your shopping.

Matt Collins: 27:18

I used to drive around to more places. Obviously in the winter the winter is the worst for me because the farmers market isn't open. So I used to be like a farmers market rat I used to go every Thursday morning to long branches right down down the road. And then I would base the menus I was sending out by what I was seeing at the farmers market. And then granted the farmers market isn't your best option. I had an issue with squash. I did a pop up in October I said definitely was gonna be delicata squash. I went to the farmers market the week before they had no three whereby wheelbarrows full honey not delicata a corn like kombucha all this different squash and then I went the next week when I needed to pick it up. They said I've had no squash but luckily there's um there's a couple markets down here that carry real you know more unique produce like obviously they have contracts with like Ballon d'Or and stuff you can see it's all like hemp, where farms and all the those larger farms that get distributed, like the chef's garden is kind of stuff. And so like it is helpful, but you can't guarantee that you know, you sell someone Jerusalem artichokes you I might be shooting myself in the foot. So that's something I really try my best not to do, but try my best to keep the menus. Interesting for the customer. And for me,

Chris Spear: 28:37

yeah, I didn't realize how much time I was gonna spend driving around to different places to get my stuff when I started this business. And some of it was because price like, you know, I was being too cheap. I think that's one of the traps that we fall into is like because you're looking at profit margins like, Oh, well, I can get all my stuff at this one place. But it's like, oh, I can get like $1 a pound less if I drive across town here and then you're easily spending like six hours driving around. And that's just stupid. That's like something I tell people now, like, just cost of doing business. Yeah, like, your time is worth something. And I don't think enough people factor that in, like, what is your time worth? I'll tell you, I just started using instant cart like two months ago, and it's changed my life. Like I was really particular about letting someone else pick out my stuff. But I haven't had any issues at all. And I'm even letting them pick proteins. A lot of times I get started with me ordering like pantry supplies, like you can get my salsa and you know, some tomatoes or whatever. But then I would pick up the stuff park the car and go in and go like pick out my rib eyes. And I was like, Oh, well you know what I'm just gonna, you know, give it a shot and see how they do and they've done great, and I've had no issue with that. And to get like, all those hours back has been amazing.

Matt Collins: 29:45

I would like to get busy enough to the point where I had to use instacart. But I mean, typically on a busy week, I'll do like three parties. And I'll try to condense my shopping and prep. So it's really not that crazy. So it'll be like okay, cool. I'm Make my puree it can be used on Thursday and then used on Saturday. So luckily, some of that carries over where I'm only going to store once. Obviously, I use a lot of pickles and stuff like that preserves ferments on the menu, as well. I don't know, you see, there's a lot of garnishes. It's like, That stuff's like meezan blast out, like good to go. Like, I have a whole little mini fridge with just like pickled veggies, pickle pearl onions, like,

Chris Spear: 30:27

so how are you getting a number of clients to have the same items? Like, do you have the same menu? And it's just like menu of the week? Or is it just working out because I give my customers like free rein of like, menu things. And I can have three days in a row where they have totally different five course menus.

Matt Collins: 30:42

So I heard you discuss this recently. And I really appreciate you talking about it. But well, actually, a couple times, I've heard you discuss this. And so pretty much what I do is I have all my form, you know tastes, preferences, food allergies, any special notes. So the special note is like, Oh, it's an anniversary or birthday, what is that person's favorite foods, or something I'll ask on the phone, on a consultation or in the email. And then I'll include that stuff. So I don't have any preset menus. I'll draft something up based on when the party is going to be like sees inability, and then what I know I can get my hands on. And then if I have a party, if I have a menu set in that week, and you know, there's a good, profitable item, or there's like a real labor intensive item, I will try to you know, sell that item again, if it fits the dietary restrictions,

Chris Spear: 31:36

are you really trying to start your menu from scratch, like every time you have a dinner then?

Matt Collins: 31:39

I do but I mean. So the restaurant that I said is my favorite job, I had that job for two years. And I think the second year I had the job. I did like a ridiculous amount like 350 menu items or something crazy. So I have this like Rolodex of recipes, menus, flavor combinations. And so it doesn't feel that hard. But I think when a guest hears the menu is being created for them, they take that as like, Oh, that's nice. But then when I have a difficult, just, you know, for lack of a better term customer or something with a lot of buttons. I'll just send maybe three items per course to select, which is similar to what you do. But I'll try my best to roll that out either from like the Greatest Hits menu, something that I want, I've been meaning to try something I've seen recently that I want to try something from other menus that week to alleviate a little bit of prep. And then if they pick it great if they don't pick it, who cares? Like you know, I mean, like I'm getting paid, I'm supposed to deliver style. I don't get upset by it. But the custom aspect has been difficult, but it helps me in the booking process to kind of weed out not that I tell people not to have a party, but it gets the customer in the mindset of like, Okay, I'm not gonna get garden salad, shrimp cocktail is something else boring steak.

Chris Spear: 33:08

So what if someone comes to you with those requests? Because Because I get that to where like, it was just a couple of weeks ago where someone came and they said, you know, like, we want to have a dinner. And they hadn't even seen my menu and they said we want you know, like a salad with blue cheese. We want shrimp scampi and cheesecake. And then I went back and I still was like, okay, like I can do those things. But also like, here's my menu of my custom things that I do really well that are maybe similar to what you want. And their response was like, No, that's what we want. And you're just kind of like

Matt Collins: 33:40

are well obviously I'll depending on the size of the party. A larger party literally sends me a garbage menu, I had somebody send me a gyres meeting, and I was like, I will do it 100%. They backed out due to COVID. This was maybe in September, they sent me literally a list because I guess they had a different private chef, or they were supposed to get this menu at a country club, or something. So they sent me this list. This menu, it was ridiculous. I had a big conversation about Wagyu beef and how much of an upcharge that's going to be because like you can just get USDA prime, and I can do it at my regular pricing. But if you want long term beef, I can't possibly purchase that and charge you when I'm charging because I'm not like a charity. But when I get those kinds of requests, I'm always going to include it. I just did a menu earlier this week. The guy said he really wanted Caesar salad. I'm going to try my best to make the best Caesar salad at one course. I'm gonna go real heavy on anchovies. I'm going to try to do a bunch of pickles and accoutrements on there. Try to make it the best way I can just get really nice baby gem lettuce. Really try to make the best Caesar salad. But when I'm writing the menus, I'll take the suggestions as long as the suggestion isn't something not cost effective. You know, I mean if the person is like I want to hold lobster, I will try to shy away From a whole lobster, because a there's it's not fun. It doesn't financially work for the menu price cost. And I don't even know if I have a plates large enough to put a whole lobster on.

Chris Spear: 35:12

I mean, maybe my biggest plates are 1011 inches. Like that's like a whole other purchase, I would need to buy like something with a giant lip that you'd be able to dump a lobster boil into. This was the definitely the summer of the we planned 150 person wedding we had a caterer, it's now 15 people, our caterer won't do it. Here's our menu, like the amount of times that someone just like, gave me this menu that they had already done with another caterer. And a lot of them are like my challenge was they had like the BS premade apps are like, well, we want mini Haitian or this and that it's like I'm not like probably coming from like Cisco like and not to knock like I've had, you know those frozen as well. Like I don't do that. And there's no way that I am going to be hand making mini keys. Like if I can't make it from scratch. I'm not serving it. And I'm not doing like medication pigs in a blanket like I have 80 things that I can make for appetizers like here's what I do.

Matt Collins: 36:04

So the past apps thing comes up for me a lot. I will edit. I've done it seasonally, where I take the old list, I take things off, like obviously tomatoes, it's not the summertime, and I kind of rotate it and I'll send a pretty big list for the hors d'oeuvres. I hate doing the hors d'oeuvres because it's super time consuming. Those are always larger parties. And so I bring somebody with me for larger parties. I heard you don't I think you're freaking crazy.

Chris Spear: 36:28

No, I bring so the max I do is 20 people and over like 10 people. I bring one and I've brought two people with me. Okay. I don't have I don't have waitstaff. Everyone who comes with me needs to be able to hold their own in the kitchen and cook. So like eight to 10 is kind of my break point where I assess I would never do like a 12 to 15 person party by myself. That just doesn't happen. You're

Matt Collins: 36:49

better than me, man. I break it six.

Chris Spear: 36:51

Oh, no, I can totally do like eight maybe

Matt Collins: 36:54

even running the food back and forth to the table. Now. I

Chris Spear: 36:57

mean, I can do that myself.

Matt Collins: 37:00

I don't know, I just feel like there's that one person waiting, and I hate the eyeballs on me. So pick it up, son pick it up. I don't know, I'm just saying because then there's that buffer of getting out of their house and getting everything cleaned.

Chris Spear: 37:13

But I will also say that it's helped me streamline my process because I was a little too fancy. You know, I think you know, you start this business and you want to be impressive. And not that I'm not anymore. But I was over complicating things like, you know, I came into it like wanting to put like 12 components on a plate. And I've talked a lot on this podcast about like the bullshit restaurants with like 17 components. And it really taught me to edit, like what is the best bytes of food that I can get out in a fast and concise manner. So every plate is not taking five minutes to plate and using tweezers and a bunch of sets a hand. So working by myself, I really was able to refine my cuisine.

Matt Collins: 37:47

I started that way. So there was a little bit of an extra nuance at first that I like wickley saved for I do I do, I used to do public pop ups where I would rent an Airbnb due to different seedings as long as they had a six to eight person dinner table, and do like six o'clock seating and like an 830 seating and sell tickets to it as like a promo to get people to want to throw their own party. And so like that, that's what I save the more intricate stuff for or a pop up at a restaurant, where it's like, Okay, I'm literally doing this once I have a full restaurant kitchen. You know, you can have that little extra bit of whatever there. But any menu I send anybody it's based on, can I execute this? You know, and I have a 16 person party, I'm not selling them pasta, because I'm not going to bring that many extra saute pans. You know, I mean, in order to toss, you know, make the sauce magnet and you know in like,

Chris Spear: 38:45

Oh definitely there's things I don't do for big parties. I mean, if you're getting be for a big party, it's going to be a whole tenderloin or whole ribeye, like I'm not pan searing 12 steaks, like it just can't happen. It's gonna be like a whole roast and something.

Matt Collins: 38:59

I learned my mistake last month with that I had a big party, like 16 people and I had New York strips, and I waited to sear them off and their hood wasn't sucking it up. And I had a lot of smoke everywhere. And luckily all the food was very good. So no one was upset. But the kitchen got pretty smoky. Because the hood wasn't sucking out all the smoke from the cast iron pan.

Chris Spear: 39:20

I wasn't thinking about talking about this, but you mentioned pop ups, what are your What do you know about the legality of those? And have you looked into it and had any issues? Because around here, that's been really tough. So I've done some pop ups in airbnbs, and have been told that they're essentially like illegal restaurants and that I should not be advertising ticket sales online. I think a lot of people don't understand the legalities of these things. And we all play a little fast and loose with regulations at times, and it varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, for sure, but I didn't know if you had had any pushback or if that was something you were ever worried about.

Matt Collins: 39:56

Well, that's actually really interesting because believe it or not like being the weirdo I am I plan on interviewing you a couple questions because I have something I've thought about a lot from listen to the show. You know, Case in point when COVID hit and I had to cancel three months worth of dinners, this is my only job. I thought, wow. In the future if the world the virus ever comes back in, it'd be really a great resource for Chefs Without Restaurants, instruct people whose sole income is catering, hey, how can you get unemployment? or How can you get any benefits? or How can you pay your bills, feed yourself, and all that stuff. Because literally, when that stuff happened, I was like, I'm ready to do pretty much anything like rob a bank or something at this point, because like, I don't know when I'm getting any money ever again. So the same with that, you know, I mean, I would love for down the road Chefs Without Restaurants would be a resource of like, how can people exchange ideas and how to make money? So the legality wise of it? Probably illegal. Probably illegal. It doesn't bother me. No, I like to think of it because it's a ticket. Because it's a ticketed event. It's similar to how restaurants do it. So because it's a ticketed event. If it's advertised as including our glass of wine or whatever, I leave a lot of the alcohol stuff out of it, because that's really what scares me the food aspect doesn't scare. I will more concerned with someone taking offense to thinking it's like a party or something and be like, Oh, no, it's illegally serving alcohol not having a liquor license. Someone driving home intoxicated, which obviously five half pours of wine over the course of two hours, you can still drive a car it's two it's two drinks over two hours. So it's not like anyone you know, I mean, like taking taking that out of it and controlling the situation in that way. It really anybody didn't come from me I'm sure I could hire a lawyer or something and work my way through it. But I think part of the fun for me from like a punk do DIY aspect is like an actual underground dining club. Like I straight up call this Airbnb told the guy Hey, man, I'm having a dinner party. Are you okay with that? The guy's like, Okay, cool. rent it. Make a flyer. Don't tell anybody who didn't buy a ticket, the address. And then if the cops want to buy a ticket to my dinner party to summons me or give me a ticket, by all means, please do? Well, we

Chris Spear: 42:17

actually worked with an Airbnb my first collaborative Chefs Without Restaurants event, we did this, like me and one other chef, we actually worked with the Airbnb owner, and she gave us the space and was like, Oh, this would be a great opportunity to show off like, Can I give them towards the house. And we brought in like a bunch of influencers and people who shot video for us, you know, complimentary, and we had this great party and stuff. But then it ended up in both the newspaper and in Frederick magazine and a bunch of blogs. And then there was some pushback about this. I was like, well, like we actually weren't selling tickets online. Like you had to know someone like you had to know me or the other shaft to be able to purchase tickets. And a lot of them were Compton it was more for like publicity, but the Department of Health I think I've been kind of on their shortlist for a little while for some of this stuff.

Matt Collins: 43:04

But how are they going to get you. I mean, in all honesty, I haven't been that worried about it. Because it's just, I don't repeat the location, I've wanted to because it's like, wow, that was a great kitchen, it was a great space, great location, great price. But just to kind of keep it moving and keeping it fun and keeping the idea of it being this exciting thing, you don't want someone to come to the thing again and be like it's the same place, it's the same menu is the same whatever. I was supposed to do a pop up in May at a bed and breakfast down at the shore. And they're only allowed to sell food to people who are staying over like breakfast in the morning. But they want to rent me out the space because I had a really nice dining room is a awesome Victorian house. And I was going to do it obviously pre COVID but I was worried about a bunch of cars being in the parking lot at night and someone calling the police you know, they have you know, a health inspected kitchen, like commercial kitchen like it looks like you know a hotel and I was worried about that but I was still willing to go through with it because it's like if I do get a fine and it's it's a fine like well I don't know like it's you know, lost like I you know, poison a bunch of people or something which How would that happen? It's like basic hats up and food safety.

Chris Spear: 44:20

Well and you said hats up. So that's another issue that you get into a lot is I've heard about needing like a different asset plan for those kitchens because I've also talked about doing pop ups like you know, there's a deli downtown that has a space and they're closed every night it's like well I want to use their space to do a pop up but then again talking with department how they said well like there has to plan covers like these breakfast foods and these whatever and if I want to go in and serve like duck and all this stuff that there has a plan doesn't cover that so like looking into things like having your own hassle plan for your like traveling pop up party,

Matt Collins: 44:53

or maybe I have more of like a mafia based food and beverage department in New Jersey because it was one of the first things I did like Before I even built my website, I went down to the Department of Health, which for the whole county is located literally down the street. So I went in asked to talk to whoever, they pretty much laughed at me. And they're like, just, you know, you have to fill out a form, you have to say you're preparing whatever they're like, Where's your business LLC? I'm like, Well, I don't have one yet. They were like, Well, why are you bothering us? I'm like, cuz I want to make sure that like, I don't get in trouble with you guys. Like, you won't get a drone. Like Don't you know, just do it out of like a, you know, professional kitchen or have a space. And then in my mind, instantly, while the person was talking to me, it's like, Okay, well, my friend at this restaurant is my face now, on the record. And then in my head, too. It's like, also, I was asking about when I do in home dinners, they're like, well, if you prepare everything at that residence, it's fine.

Chris Spear: 45:49

You're in home is a totally different thing. And I think that's what a lot of people miss misconceptions about is like, you're technically like, a certain like, you don't need any licensing or anything. Like you don't have to have servsafe. You don't have to have liability insurance. Like those are good things to have, but you don't need them.

Matt Collins: 46:03

Yeah, so like, pretty much like I don't like go and make chicken stock at these people's houses. I come with everything. Just being picked up as if I was a restaurant, I have all the means and POS ready to go just for the final steps, mount the sauce with butter, adjust the seasoning, see are the proteins warm up the vegetables? You know, I mean that that whole spiel. And so once I heard that, I was just like, it was kind of like one of those things where I'm like, how am I going to get them to want to bring me down? And luckily, they don't yet. So it's good. And then I haven't come into any situations with pop ups. Even with the city doing pop ups. I've never had any any issues. Like it's just okay, we're just serving different food this day.

Chris Spear: 46:50

It's our county here. I mean, I've worked I actually one of my former chefs is department of health inspector in a different county in Maryland. He's like, we would not be bothered at all like, like, there's so much so much that we need to oversee that like one guy doing a dinner for 12 people at an Airbnb as like, small fish. Like we wouldn't even be bothered with that, like, forget about it,

Matt Collins: 47:10

ya know, for sure. I guess at first I thought you meant like in restaurants, you know, I mean, you like apartment restaurant.

Chris Spear: 47:16

But in restaurants, I've been told pretty much you can't do them here in town, like I wasn't

Matt Collins: 47:20

any different than like a special. Like, this is our soup of the day, like I was any different. I'm the guy making the new soup of the day, except it's in a prefix menu. So what's the difference?

Chris Spear: 47:29

Yeah, this No, this could be a whole episode. And that's why I'm always interested to see what people are encountering. Like here in Frederick, it's considered an event. Like if you're doing something out of the norm and isn't an event and then there's like event permitting, and then they oversee the jurisdiction of like food with it. So you can't just like do a pop up or take over. Like if I want to go do if I want to do food at a brewery. It has to be in conjunction with an event like I can't just go on a Tuesday night and do like taco Tuesdays at the brewery down the street. They say like, what's the event? And then I could say, well, it's a beer release. And they get to decide if that's an event to them. So they actually have jurisdiction over what an event is. And then if I can have food there or not, and it's so much red tape that it's not even worth it

Matt Collins: 48:12

liquor probably hurts for sure. But obviously, if you've ever turned on the news, this is not for you, for people listening. There's a lot of constitutionalists now. So by asking for the permit to do the event, or gathering or protest or whatever, you're acknowledging the fact that you need permission, when in reality you don't. I like literally watch some weird constitutionalist guy, like go off on this. And I was like, Oh, that's good to know. I'm just gonna, like, literally have a copy of the Constitution with me, I guess. I guess that's the thing people do now. And then be like, I don't know, dude, this is my, my gun. And this is my rights and just maybe hold up a weird piece of paper and talk with like a piece of straw in my mouth and my cowboy hat. And then maybe let's leave me alone.

Chris Spear: 48:55

Do you have typical customers or like a demographic like who who's hiring you?

Matt Collins: 49:01

I wish I knew, I wish I knew if I could do general demographic, I'd say the youngest person to hire me is a party I'm doing this weekend. And I want to say it's late 20s. That's the youngest person has ever hired me.

Chris Spear: 49:15

But typically, I would say like mid 30s, to late, early, late 40s. While you skew a lot younger than my customers, for the most part, although it's changing a little bit.

Matt Collins: 49:26

I have some older customers, but I wouldn't say they're the predominant base. You know, I think what happens is the what I present myself, as they take as some Frou Frou where they just think it's like not for them, which is fine. You know, I mean, like, I've had plenty of other customers and I've actually been some of the easier people to work with happier, more grateful people. just fun to deal with. But no, I wouldn't feel I Yeah, I definitely say it's a little bit of a younger crowd, maybe mid 30s to Wait for these income of these people, surprisingly, is less than I would think, majority of the time. But that's a whole other aspect to how do you judge somebody that way just because they have a studio apartment or condo or townhouse or something? Maybe that's all this extra money they have to spend on other things. Yeah, I mean, especially taxes in this area are crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy high.

Chris Spear: 50:22

What I found really interesting is millennials got a really bad rap, but they pay the best. Like, if we're going to talk about pay and like income and stuff, I found that they pay the best. And they tip the best that like, they're, they value things differently. Whereas you could have, I could go to a party for older people who clearly have good income, you know, they've got the five car garage and all that. And, you know, you didn't get to be rich by giving all your money away.

Unknown: 50:49

I didn't want to answer the question.

Chris Spear: 50:50

We'll say we'll say that, but then I'll do a bachelorette party for a bunch of girls in their 20s. And I'll get like a 40% tip, you know, because they're just ladies man. Well, you know, I try I try. But you know, like they different generations value different things. And I think the younger generation tends to look at experiences and dining and having a good time. And, you know, I actually don't mind cooking for a younger crowd.

Matt Collins: 51:14

I was speaking to somebody about this last night, and I said the exact same thing you said, I said, You know, I see someone who, you know, I mean, has like a dinged up Toyota and their driveway, that person is gonna give me a better tip than the guy with the brand new, still making payments on his, I don't know, BMW X class or infinity, whatever nonsense, you know, but that just kind of like, like is what it is, you know, I don't mind You know, I try to cover as much as possible. But I guess to what you just said to, I offer wine recommendations and pairings. So this ties in the legalities of it, I recommend three different types of wine per course, I write a list, I send them to the wine store to get to, you know, order it and get it shipped to their house. So I'm not purchasing the liquor. I'm literally just, it's like a corkage fee, or I'm providing the glassware and additional coaster. And I'm pouring it. And I'm trying to open up people's eyes to alcohol that isn't distributed in New Jersey by using a New York State Liquor Store that can ship to New Jersey. So they're getting like some more natural wine, some interesting wines that you couldn't get at the store. And so like the legality behind that is like, should I be pouring it? Probably not. But it's not mine. It's like, what's the difference between me pouring their water, it's like a whole nonsense kind of thing. But I've noticed demographically, younger crowds. The younger clients are more into trying new wines, and trying new beverages. You know, hiring a bartender to mix cocktails at the event, because that's something I completely outsource if that does come up, because a lot of times people are like, Oh, we love having old fashioned martinis, yada yada yada, like a rich older gentleman or something. And then you're like, Okay, well, it's a Saturday night, it's a month out, I have a couple bartenders that in the three to $400 range, if you want to rent them for tonight and the night and you provide the liquor, they'll probably bring ice and, and nonsense and or whatever, they need their little bar set up, you know, and they're always like, Oh, wait, it's that much. And I'm like, Well, I'm not going to do it for free. Like, I'll do a single batch cocktail or something. And, you know, I mean, mix it up real fast, put it in the fridge, and then have someone pour it for me and throw like a, you know, little dehydrated lime wedge or wine disc in it or something. But it's like, I can't do everything. Totally, I

Chris Spear: 53:37

do the same thing. I mean, because I, I do a lot of cocktail work like at home. And I have a lot of photos and cocktails. And that's one of the first things people ask is like, Can you recommend some signature cocktails? It's like, Well, I'm not buying liquor, but I'll give you a list. So I might make like the non alcoholic, like if there's some infusion or you know, shrub or syrup or something like I can do that. And I can help you mix. But batching is the way to go. But like, especially if I'm by myself, like, I cannot be like mixing cocktails and getting your appetizers ready. Like that's that's a challenge.

Matt Collins: 54:07

Yeah, for maybe like the first six months or so I didn't advertise that or put it on the questionnaire. And I really missed out on a lot of people who would have been interested in that. And then so I've added that to like my questionnaire to make sure that people are getting it because I used to be like, Oh no, I'll mention it. And then I would just forget. And then I'd have people and they'd be like yeah, we really know what kind of wine to drink and I'm just thinking to myself, Oh, I hate myself. I can't believe I forgot like, because in all honesty, that's like the easiest buffer to my program. You know, I mean, I charge $100 extra for up and up to 15 people for the glassware the wine recommendations, I spend like maybe half an hour picking wine, send it over and then all you're doing is washing 30 glasses.

Chris Spear: 54:51

Well I didn't do I don't do any of that. I didn't realize that was something I could and should be up charging for like people are like, can I have wine recommendations and I just like tell them I don't know what you can get it yourself. Drink what you like and then we move on?

Matt Collins: 55:01

No, no time is money, man Time is money I happen to make $100 for like a half hour worth of work. I don't know. I mean, I feel bad saying it out loud. But it's no different than corkage fee at a restaurant if you bring a bottle of wine and they charge you 50 bucks just to open it.

Chris Spear: 55:17

Yeah. And I guess if you're picking it out, I mean, I liked that idea. I hadn't really thought about that. Because again, like I'm in an area where I serve as like five states, like where where I am, you know, I'm 45 minutes from DC. But also Baltimore, but like Pennsylvania, and West Virginia, in Virginia. So people's like, what are your wine recommendations? Like, I don't know what you can get in Leesburg, Virginia, or I don't know what you can get in DC, you know, it's not as clear cut. So I'm always like, well, you maybe get like a Pinot Grigio for this. But I don't know what you can get at your store down the street.

Matt Collins: 55:47

I mean, I guess you could I've done it with people who didn't want to order from the distributor in New York. And I've said, Well, what store? Are you going to? Can you get me their website? So I've had people do that. I mean, you can all ask what what you know, like some big wine wholesale sale or buy them and they like to go to if they have a website, and then go make those selections. They're not going to be like what I would think is the peak experience. But if you can help somebody who has no idea what why they want to drink, and then they have a new favorite wine, because you're like, oh, I've had this before, or I'm generally familiar with this producer, I think they do a quality product at that price point. Because I do that, based on I think price points, too. So if someone's like, I don't wanna spend more than $20 a bottle, I will find wines that you can get, you know, I mean, most people don't really want to spend more than $35 a bottle.

Chris Spear: 56:36

Yeah,

Matt Collins: 56:36

I mean, but the amount of wine you can get at that price range is like a predominant amount of the wines in the store.

Chris Spear: 56:43

Oh, that's good. That's something I'll have to think about.

Matt Collins: 56:46

Yeah, that's definitely my most helpful thing, especially if you're doing a party for two people. Yeah, I mean, for the night worth of work, you're really not with gas and everything else. Unless you get tipped? Well, you're really, you're almost just doing it as an act of goodwill, because you love the job, and then hoping that they're gonna refer you to somebody, because you're really barely putting any money in your pocket.

Chris Spear: 57:09

I'm so glad you said that. I'm sure you've probably heard me say that. Like, it's hard to say that because you definitely don't want a customer to hear that really. But like, it's not worth doing. You know, I, I did a party last night for two people at you know, $125 ahead. But even with the tip and all that, like once you take out the food cost, like most adults make more than $200 a day at their job, you know, I think so like, it's like, Well, shit, I'm gonna make like $100 profit, maybe like, that's not worth it. This isn't a sustainable job. Like, I still do it. And people tell me, I'm crazy for doing it. I enjoy doing the dinners for two, you can do some really creative stuff. And it's and it's fun. And hopefully it's lead gen but like, I could not have a sustainable business just cooking for two people a night like it wouldn't pay the bills.

Matt Collins: 57:57

I don't get them that often. February for me, I think I have five parties that are two people. So like, on my end, I'm like, yikes, this, this is gonna be a rough month for me because I'm gonna be running around working. And I'm, you know, when I have the larger parties, I'm in a much better place. But that's why now after a year and a half of the business, I just have to raise my price $15 ahead. Because what is $15 really gonna break the bank if you're hiring somebody for over $100 ahead anyway.

Chris Spear: 58:27

Yeah, well, I think that's been the big challenge with COVID is like, You're not even supposed to have big parties, like almost all my big parties have disappeared. You know, I used to get a Saturday night where it's, you know, 10 people, and that's, you know, like 1000 to $15. And now it's like, people aren't having those parties. And it's like, I got to pick up a dinner party for two and now I'm gonna make 200 bucks when I was making 1200 bucks. I do have a question about your marketing because you did. I don't know if I call it a risque photo shoot with you and a Santa costume. And you've posted them pretty freely throughout Instagram. Like what is your thought behind that photo shoot and the marketing and what's been the response to that?

Matt Collins: 59:07

Well, I haven't unreleased Dennis Rodman photoshoot which I may or may not have leaked to you on Twitter. My whole outlook is if you work for yourself, obviously I need to be not a total piece of garbage. But there's no like corporate guidelines. If I think if I want to make a joke or I can do something as long as it's not like a cruel thing that would get you canceled in air quotes in regular society, then I think it's it's fair game. If I want to wear a speedo in the summer eating a super mustardy hotdog or something like grit like grilling on the grill and say, Hey, what are you doing July 4, and I think I should be able to do that. Advertising because it's it's my thought process was how can I get people who don't like food to send these pictures to other people and say, Who the fuck is this person? What is this person's problem? Do you know who this person is? Does their food Good. And I was like, how can I trick people into checking out what I'm doing? Because if you're just going to post a picture of like a fish dish every day, only fishermen, fish purveyors, cooks and foodies, air quotes, again, are going to be interested in it at all. And how do you translate likes and engagement online into actual paying customers? Because I did I want to say 45 dinners last year. And I would easily say, a dozen to 15 of them were generated from Instagram that I could attribute to Instagram. No, I

Chris Spear: 1:00:37

mean, it's it's definitely interesting. You know, we've we've talked a little bit about brand and what your brand is, I mean, I think it shows your personality, a little and a sense of humor there. It just it also maybe weeds out some people who you wouldn't want as customers.

Matt Collins: 1:00:52

I want everyone as a customer. Okay, I don't Well, not everybody, but I don't mind like I don't have an ideal customer, my ideal customer, someone who's gonna have a good time and enjoy it.

Chris Spear: 1:01:01

And yes, that's what I mean is like you're it just it shows that you're not going to be like super stuffy and uptight. I think

Matt Collins: 1:01:07

I have that ability to that's like something I was really funny. So I was when I started my business, I joined the business networking group. And everyone in the business networking group was like, Matt, like, You're, you're a crazy person, like something's wrong with you. And I'm like, No, I'm just, I'm not at work. Right now. I want to have fun. Like I all I know, you guys, I see you all every week, like I can be myself. And then like, how did clients interact with you? It turned out a number of clients, new people in the networking group, and it came to light months later. And they're like, Oh, no, Matt came to my house and did a dinner like he's great. What do you mean, he's, he's weird. He's super professional. He's great. And if you weren't like, wait, that guy is fine. And so I just decided to like not, not worry about it and just try to enjoy the business as much as I can. Because what's the point of presenting myself in some, like, not fun way, like wearing like a black chef coat and like, having the knives and being super serious. And I don't know, like some like corny, like Hell's Kitchen, kind of

Chris Spear: 1:02:09

like all the chef profile photos where you have your arms crossed, and you look like you just had to operate one of your cooks or something.

Matt Collins: 1:02:15

Yeah, where it's like that whole stigma and all that stuff. No one wants that anymore. You know, I mean, and even if you've been reading the news, or whatever, like that whole David Chang story that came out this week, where it's just like, as much as he talked about it himself. Now people are, I don't really fully, I can't fully wrap my brain around around it. Now. People are outraged or upset or whatever, where it's like, I've had a lot of shitty bosses. I personally hate all the shitty bosses. There's celebrity chefs who owe me money from me working for like, a week or two. I'm like, Yeah, like, Where's my money? Like, what is the point of me going online? Or saying that? Like, oh, like, what do I benefit from it? Is their life going to be changed? Because one person doesn't go and have dinner? Because so and so owes me $2,000? Like, I don't understand, like, what is the point of being worried about it, as long as you know, you're doing what you're supposed to be doing. And you're providing the experience that people want? And so I thought, why not try my best.

Chris Spear: 1:03:21

But I do find I mean, we were talking I think before air, you know, like my tic Tock videos. And some of the reels I've done on Instagram, they convert really well, like, they're funny, you know, I don't think that in general, my Instagram feed or my Facebook is like, particularly funny, but I feel when I get videos, like that's where the personality can come out. And they do well, and just like the video of my podcast thing, you know, got like 5000 views or something like right away, I think because it was, you know, it was funny. And then if that means someone then finds my food and my business because of that, like awesome.

Matt Collins: 1:03:54

Why can't you just have a little bit of fun and nuance in it? Like, I don't want to just post a picture of like a home dinner table and then write this like, drawn out boring caption of like, hey, do you and your family Miss restaurants? Do you want to go on vacation? I can make the food for you. Like I work for myself. So if I want to be wacky and weird, I at least I get enjoyment out of doing it.

Chris Spear: 1:04:18

What's the future hold for your business? I mean, do you have a vision for whether it be growth new things? You're working on expansions? any of that?

Matt Collins: 1:04:28

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, so initially, the business I did want to start I was discussing earlier was like, some sort of brick and mortar at some some point. I think the next move is to relocate somewhere else New Jersey, have a place that I could try to do a dinner once a month at my own residence, which is edgy for sure. Literally inviting heaps of legal problems to my doorstep, whenever I get that started, and then at some point parlaying that maybe into The actual brick and mortar space for production for other people to do pop ups for me to do pop ups and just to have like a communal space, you know, and find other revenue streams from that without having what's constituted as a restaurant. Yeah,

Chris Spear: 1:05:19

because once you have a restaurant, I have to kick you out of the group. Good.

Matt Collins: 1:05:23

I'll never have a restaurant. I don't. I'm not that guy anymore. I've taken restaurants as far as I can go. And I've enjoyed it. And I had a great time. And I never thought I never wanted to own a restaurant, which is always really really, really funny. Even in culinary school. I was like, I'm gonna own a restaurant, my plate. So there's like, 30 of us in this class. We're all gonna open a restaurant doesn't make sense. We're gonna split up, we're all gonna call what state we're gonna open the restaurant in and hopefully, over time, because the NCAA it's like every three weeks, there's a class. So like campuses, like couple 100 kids, like also a couple 100 restaurants are going to open next year. Like Yeah,

Chris Spear: 1:05:59

no, that doesn't work at all. But we did have to design a restaurant. I remember creating the restaurant and I was big into Cajun when I was a freshman and commentary school and I was gonna have a Cajun restaurant, even though I'd literally never been to New Orleans. I guess that's I guess that's is that white privilege? What is the term for that? Or like, I just read some cookbooks and I was gonna open a Cajun restaurant.

Unknown: 1:06:18

You just wanted to be Emerald Lagasse?

Chris Spear: 1:06:19

I did. I did. He was right. He's from Massachusetts, where I'm from and went to Johnson Wales. Why not? But uh, yeah, by the time I graduated, four years later, I had no desire to even work in a restaurant.

Matt Collins: 1:06:31

I'm really, really embarrassed of the concept I had, but it was also Massachusetts based. I named the restaurant converge after the band. And it was this Gothic melting pot of like heavy metal music and fine dining, I guess, like destroyer, and LA or something was pretty much the concept, but I'm not as good as Jordan Kahn. So I don't know how to do any of that kind of stuff. But it was like this, like, super dark, Gothic restaurant, and my teacher was like, what's wrong with you? And I was like, it's sick, right? Like, no, it's not.

Chris Spear: 1:07:02

So you know, I always ask, what are some of your favorite culinary resources, or business resources?

Matt Collins: 1:07:09

I would say, my friends, you know, reaching out to, you know, industry, people writing ideas by them, constantly brainstorming, I mentioned earlier, trying to network with other business owners, locally, who do completely different things, you know, I mean, whether they're in the beverage industry, or, or a lawyer or something, and seeing how they run their business and how they're making and making decisions. Whenever COVID ends, I broken away from networking, because it's, it's exhausting. It's not fun, it goes into that whole, why am I waking up at 7am to go to a zoom meeting, if I'm my own boss, so I'm going to be hosting, you know, things that local places in my area to invite other small business people just to kind of exchange ideas and on a local sphere, and then who knows who they're going to introduce me to other restaurants that do pop up that other potential clients? And then, you know, that's like, kind of my whole thought process behind building the business and getting to the next step, or being more profitable or meeting my, my goals for this year. And then,

Chris Spear: 1:08:19

when you've had a weird year, I guess, I mean, you started your business not that far before. COVID. So like, you haven't had like a solid history of like, normal business time, either, I guess,

Matt Collins: 1:08:31

yeah. had maybe about six months. But I wouldn't even say it was solid, it was like the start and like the beginning phases, but you know, and then I've seen all the waves online of, Oh, I'm gonna start doing this or I'm gonna make CBD ice cream and delivery. Because my restaurant, I'm the pastry chef that's closed. And I've seen all these people have these ideas, quit, not follow through and go in these little cycles of how can I build a revenue stream? And I'm just glad I wasn't stuck in the city. Trying to do that. Because there is a tenacity you have to have, in order to do your own business. I mean, at least to be positive about it. I think you need to have a tenacity, or just a general like, fuck everybody else. attitude. Sorry, I keep cursing. I keep feeling like I'm not supposed to. But you have to have that attitude of like, I'm going to do this, or I'm going to do it too. It kills me because how embarrassing would it be to stop doing it? And is it just shame and embarrassment that's going to keep propelling me to do this? No, I really don't care what people think about me. I'm not trying to be some celebrity chef or TV chef. I'm just someone who wants to pay my bills and be happy in my life. You're not gonna see me writing recipes on tik tok and doing a ton of content like that because it's like, that's time out of my day that I couldn't You spent doing literally anything else, you know, I mean, granted, expanding your brand is great and getting more customers is great. But I just have no desire to engage in this thing that I don't want to do. Corner resources. I mean, obviously, you know, I'm gonna be kind of a an idiot and say Instagram is great. I'm gonna say cookbooks is great kitchen Arts and Letters in New York City, just trying to stay current, not only your podcast, but there's plenty of other podcasts or chefs can interview that I listen to and I enjoy. You know, obviously, you talk about Dave Arnold a lot. You know, I listened to that show every Tuesday cooking issues. I like Andrew talks to chefs. So it's like, how can I like a sponge? Find ideas? I guess that's what I was trying to get to. And then I started going, that's nonsense whole. But the point is, like, how can I while I'm working on myself get other influences and other ideas that will help me propel myself? Because otherwise you live in a box?

Chris Spear: 1:11:00

Yeah. And I think one of the challenges that I found is like, now, you're not just a chef, you're a business owner, right? Like for the longest time, it was like, creating new recipes, refining those recipes, getting that down. But now most of my mental energy and time is like, marketing, like building the business, building the brand writing emails doing that, like, again, you know, I kind of wanted to start my own business, so I could cook more, right? Like, I was an executive chef for a company, but I felt like an HR manager. And I'm like, No, I'm gonna leave my leave this thing and start my own personal chef business. So I can cook again. And now it's like, writing emails, doing marketing plans, doing photo shoots, like, I'm still not cooking as much?

Matt Collins: 1:11:40

Well, it's kind of like what we were just talking about, where How can? How can you make enough money? How can you make the business sustainable enough that you don't need to spend the time on the marketing. And that's like, part of why I was discussing before about that extra $15, a person can change the budget of the food that I can put on the plate. And that'll put more money in my pocket to hopefully invest, reinvest more money into the business, whether it be equipment, supplies, etc. And then that's like, really the main stain, or the the thought behind it on like, how can I improve the business? How can I get more customers. And then at some point, I guess the goal is to have the demand be so high, that it's like, Oh, you didn't reach out six months in advance, like, there are no days, like I'm doing three parties every week. And I'm booked out for the next six months, and I did raise my prices even more, or whatever, you know, and I don't want to shut anybody out, I don't want to have a ridiculous minimum of like, $1,000, or something, not anyone who wants to do it. Like, you know, like, that's why I'm here, there's nothing on my schedule, I want to do the party. You know, I tell people to reach out two weeks in advance, because it helps me get the menu approved, do all the planning, make sure that I can get all the stuff, maybe I have to, you know, do some advanced prep to make sure it's ready a multi day process, whether it be something simple, like beef, beef stock, or Demi gloss, you know, and a home kitchen, it sucks it you got to, you know, do have four pots, and it's like a three day process still no matter what, and maybe it's old school, maybe it's something I should have emanate. But it's something that's classic technique, it's an excellent thing to use. So I guess when you're doing that, the main goal is to, like kind of press forward. And so I don't mind doing that kind of stuff. It's not what I want to do. But I think it's important to, you know, I don't like to exercise. But obviously, I don't want to, you know, gain a lot of weight. So occasionally I do something. So same with the business, you don't maybe don't want to market but even if you spend 20 minutes a day while you're on the toilet, like in pictures on Instagram, then maybe that's like the bare minimum you need to do. And then maybe you do do a photo shoot once every couple of months. Because you were talking the other day that you don't take pictures of the food. The pictures I post of my food are literally at the dinner, I pull out the phone, I go and or I have my server start running the food, which is why I have a server, hey, start running those and I'll just take the last one and then I'll go out with it. Because to me, that's super invaluable. If I'm doing a five course dinner, that's five photos, that's content for an entire week on Instagram, that you know i can i can have like that I'm getting paid to do. I'm not buying through food. I'm not buying extra food, but you're saying to plate it up the next day. I'm not investing any more time in the dish. You know, I mean, I'm cleaning up at the end of the night. And I know that I have content for the next week because I did one dinner that week. And I just think it's an invaluable thing but that's why I'm wired to parties. I I have somebody because it's a nice little buffer to make sure or I have them take pictures while I'm cooking. Hey, I'm doing this while I'm playing. Can you just snap a picture and then I'll have that and then it said sounds super corny. But just having Some content is really nice. And I'd love to slow down on content. Like, I'm tired. I hate the internet, I'm tired. But it is has been, like invaluable to me with expanding the business and, and getting people engaged and being interested in booking parties.

Chris Spear: 1:15:17

Yeah, the number of websites and social media accounts that I manage is ridiculous. And I'm ready to outsource some of that.

Matt Collins: 1:15:28

Well, no, of course, especially I can only imagine like, keeping up with Chefs Without Restaurants finding chefs who aren't, you know, all the other businesses, I have a list for you, I have a couple of people who I think would be great. But finding those people posting the content, even spending 15 minutes a day to reblog something or whatever, or posting the stories or what you're doing now check out the the old episodes from next month while I take a break, you're still spending five to 10 minutes a day, like managing it replying to people, I'm sure you're loaded with emails. So like the fact that you're doing both things to me is super impressive. And it's probably very thankless. But I'm gonna say thank you.

Chris Spear: 1:16:09

Thanks, I appreciate that. No, it's really great. But you know, I'm really amazed at the nice messages I get, you know, Instagram, the crowd has been really great. But like, someone will send a message and say, like, hey, I've really been enjoying the show. And like that makes it worth it. But I'm going through actually a podcast accelerator course right now, like I paid, and I'm working with, like a guy in a team to like, grow the show and like, get more followers. So like some of the things you can do, and hopefully monetize it. So we'll see how that goes.

Unknown: 1:16:40

I believe in you.

Chris Spear: 1:16:41

Thank you. Well, do you have any final parting words of advice before we get out of here today?

Unknown: 1:16:47

Always go for it.

Chris Spear: 1:16:49

Okay, always go for it,

Matt Collins: 1:16:50

I lower down. But maybe that's not the best advice. Like if you want it, go for it, maybe

Chris Spear: 1:16:55

if you want to go for it,

Matt Collins: 1:16:57

you know, but I don't know. I probably rambled on too much. And that other passage, so I want to apologize, but I do think having that tenacity, having that grit. And and really believing in what you're doing and and what your business model is, will show through. I don't think you need to write bad or unrelatable content or SEO or whatever. If you believe in 100% what you're doing, then it shouldn't matter. Because sometimes when you're trying to express what you want to express, like, if you're overthinking it, then maybe you don't have that clear vision of what you want out of it. And I don't know, I feel like I'm definitely someone who granted. My business is always evolving and changing. But it's like true to the vision. Regardless, I know we spend a lot of time talking about clients being difficult or wanting surf and turf. But at the end of the day, I'm going to do my best to get them what they want and what I want live in harmony and and really kind of keep building and shed a little light on. You know what I want to bring to people's dining experience.

Chris Spear: 1:18:00

I love that. I think that's a great place to leave it. Thanks so much for coming on the show. I really enjoyed talking to you.

Matt Collins: 1:18:06

Yeah, no, seriously, Chris, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

Chris Spear: 1:18:08

For all our Chefs Without Restaurants listeners. This has been Chris Spear with the Chefs Without Restaurants podcast. As always, you can find us on all social media channels and Chefs Without restaurants.com and.org Thanks so much, and have a great day. Thanks for listening to the Chefs Without Restaurants podcast. And if you're interested in being a guest on the show, or sponsoring the show, please let us know. We can be reached at Chefs Without restaurants@gmail.com Thanks so much.