Luladey Moges on Ethiopian Cooking and Her New Cookbook Enebla: Recipes From an Ethiopian Kitchen

Welcome to this week's Chefs Without Restaurants podcast. This is your host Chris spear. On the show. I have conversations with culinary entrepreneurs and people in the culinary industry not working in traditional restaurant settings. On today's show, I speak with Lulu de Mogi is, she's the author of the upcoming Ethiopian cookbook and Nebula Lulu moved here to the United States from Ethiopia with her family when she was 12. With this book, she wanted to be able to give readers a really great taste of Ethiopian cooking, but kind of simplifying some of the recipes to make them faster. In their culture, there's a lot of work that goes into some of these stews, sometimes taking hours, you know, it's a big thing that they do on weekends to get ready for the week. But how do you especially if you are a working person, get these recipes done in a shorter period of time without really sacrificing the quality and the taste? On the show. I talked about how I'm a big fan of Ethiopian cooking, which is why I wanted to have her on the show. And I go to one of my favorite restaurants in Falls Church, Virginia. And I talked to the chef and I had asked him, you know, what am I missing? When I make this at home? There seems to be a real lack of depth. And he said, Well, you know, like, with the onions, I cook them for four hours. But like who can do that at home? And that was the point of this cookbook? How do you achieve those flavors and that depth without having to cook onions for four hours. Having received an advanced copy of the book, I've made three recipes from the book so far. And I have to say they are fantastic. They worked really well. And I think people are really going to enjoy this book. If you've never had Ethiopian food, you should definitely try it. I know this isn't a cuisine that people have necessarily in every city. Fortunately, I live in the Washington DC area. And they have the largest community of Ethiopian people in the US. So we have a lot of restaurants here. So I understand that this could be one of those cuisines that seems really foreign to people, they might think that they have to get all these crazy ingredients that they've never heard of. But that's not really the case. I think, you know, if you can find Burberry spice, which, you know, if you can't find it in a shop you can get online. That's the big thing I think you really have to get, you know, I made a tibs dish last week at home, and I used steak and had jalapeno, onion, garlic, tomato, rosemary, I was growing most of these things at my house. And then just the Barbary spice in there. And you know, this is one of the cuisines my kids really love. I think there's something fun about it, you know, eating with your hands, who doesn't love eating with your hands. So this is kind of my plea to you to grab this book, the link is going to be in the show notes, and try some of these recipes. I really think you're going to fall in love with this cuisine. So I hope you enjoy this episode. I really hope people who've never had Ethiopian cuisine will consider getting this book and checking out some of the recipes, I really do think you're gonna find something that you love there. And as always, you can always connect with me on Instagram at Chefs Without Restaurants. And if you want more information, go to chefs without restaurants.org You can find links to our private Facebook group. You can learn how to get more gig opportunities if you're a caterer or personal chef or have a food truck, and you can sign up for our weekly newsletter. Of course, the show would not be possible without the help from our sponsors. So here's a message from this week's sponsor the United States personal chef Association. Over the past 30 years, the world of the personal chef has grown in importance to fulfill those dining needs. While the pandemic certainly upended the restaurant experience, it allowed personal chefs to close that dining gap. Central to all of that Is the United States personal chef association representing nearly 1000 chefs around the US and Canada. US PCA provides a strategic backbone to those chefs that includes liability insurance, training, communications, certification, and more. It's a reassurance to consumers that the chef coming into their home is prepared to offer them an experience with their meal. You SPCA provides training to become a personal chef through our preparatory membership. Looking to showcase your products or services to our chefs and their clients. partnership opportunities are available. Call Angela today at 1-800-995-2138. Extension 705. Or email her at a PR a t h e r@uspta.com for membership and partner info. Hey, welcome to the show. Thanks so much for coming on.

Thank you so much for having me.

I'm really looking forward to talking to you. We were just talking before I started rolling about how excited I am for this cookbook. And I think you know, I think it's time for this. There don't seem to be a lot of cookbooks on Ethiopian cooking, at least not that I could find.

Yeah, that's actually very true. I mean, there are a few. I think the last one that I saw that was published was back in like 2016. But I think the big thing is from the culture point of view, a lot of people just learn from their family. And it's like, just passed down through tradition, from family, from family and so forth. And also how I learned. And so that's why I don't think anyone tends to actually put something together or thinks of like, hey, this will be something that people will be interested in.

I guess you kind of do it maybe for people outside of your culture, right? Like, does that make sense? Like I'm sure if you're Ethiopian, you don't need an Ethiopian cookbook. But you know, people like me, I definitely need a template.

Yeah, I mean, for me, like when I was putting this together to be very honest, my first motivator besides my multiple friends who are non Ethiopian asking me for recipes all the time, and I'm like, maybe this is something I need to write down was for somebody like my sister, I think, you know, she, we are all born in Ethiopia and raised there, but she left when she was a lot younger. And so she didn't get a chance to learn and experience it the way I did. And so I know, she loves the food and the culture, and she wants to cook it. But how is she going to learn, right? And so it's basically for anybody who is Ethiopian, but either was born in the US or like in the Western world, or just, you know, left too young, like my sister, and would love to learn how to make their own traditional cuisine. And so that was like a market that I was really considering. And then of course, there's people like you, like you said, you know, that love and enjoy Ethiopian food, and want to learn how to make it at home and not necessarily always going out. But just kind of putting it in the roster of your weekly dinners.

How old were you when you moved to the US?

I was 12. So I was born and pretty young. Yeah, I mean, true. That's not That's not a lie. I was pretty young. But I managed to start sneaking in into the kitchen at a very young age, even though I was not allowed in there. But also once we moved to the States, culture, shock, life change and what sort of like you know, because kind of like a little bit background where we did live at home, we did have maids. So they're the ones that did all the cooking and the cleaning. And then you know, my mom was very much involved. Like every she did all the menu planning and for we had parties every weekend. And when that was happening, my aunts would come over and they would, you know, all cook together. And that's when I would sneak in to learn but then moving to the States, you know, culture shock, no maids. So it was like, Okay, well, my mom's cooking by herself now and then we'll be like, okay, no Lula go in and help. So that was a great opportunity for me to not only to watch or and, or just look or be able to help a little bit for all the non cutting harj stuff. But then I was like, really involved and learning hands on.

Now, did you have any Ethiopian community that you were around when you moved here? Like was there a population? Are you kind of few and far between, for lack of a better term?

Oh, yeah. There's so as you know, the largest Ethiopian population outside of Ethiopia is in DC. And then after that, it's in Dallas. And so we have, I mean, we have a lot of friends and family in Dallas, a lot of my uncles and aunts, cousins all lived there. So you know, it was essentially going from one huge family that we had back onto another family in the States. So, and then there's, you know, the population. It's like there's a huge community there. So it was like from the churches to events and whatnot. From that part of it. It was an easier transition. It's the other stuff that was a little bit harder. So one of them being I didn't speak any English when I moved. Oh, wow. Yes. So myself and my younger sister, we actually went to an Italian school back home. So I only spoke Italian and Amharic, the Ethiopian language. My brother went to a different school, he went to an Indian school and he learned he knew English so he was okay. But I basically moved here and I was in middle school and went from you. Oh, no, you can't attend classes. Now you're an ESL? Cuz everything is in English.

Did you end up then having like a Texas accent because you learned English in Dallas? You know, I

do say y'all a lot.

I say y'all. I say y'all a lot. And I'm from like, the Boston area.

And that's the thing is I've you know, we've I've moved around a lot all over the US. I've lived I used to live in the East Coast. Now I'm in the West Coast. And I you know, Ben, I used to also live out of a country and so forth. So my accent I think is like a combination. I either get you have like a an East an East Coast accent or I get you don't have an accent at all.

Yeah, I don't think I have an accent until I move around. And people tell me I have an accent. But I've lived in like seven different places myself. So it's kind of like a mix of everything.

Yeah, I mean, I think your vocabulary just kind of adapt and adjust based on where you're living. And for me, y'all, it's definitely one of those things that I can't get out of my, like how y'all do it? Like, it's just I can't

sense it's literal. If there's more than one person. That's y'all.

I know. But you'd be surprised. Like, especially in LA people are like, what?

So you wrote a cookbook? Do you have any experience in the food? Right? Like most of the people on my show? Are chefs, former chefs, culinary entrepreneurs, like, did you have any experience in the food world at all? Have you ever worked in a restaurant cook professionally, had any thing kind of tying you to the culinary world?

Yes, I've been in the hospitality for over 20 years. And I did work in restaurants. Now. I'm still in hospitality, but I'm on the hotel side. But I've been in restaurant world for well over 10 to 12 years. And the last one being when I was living in San Francisco, so but I'm, I'm mostly from like the front of the house. But I saw I was like, you know, I did everything from hostess, to all the way being an AGM. Right? So like running the entire show. But with that being said, I work very closely with my chefs. And a lot of my friends are chefs. And so anytime that it went from events or something would happen, or hey, we're short staffed in the kitchen, and I'll just jump right into the line, right? Trial by Fire. Always right. I mean, you know how it is in the industry where you're like, you just go where you're needed. And so I'm not gonna lie, I kind of miss it sometimes where I kind of just want to go and stop at a restaurant just to kind of just to get it back. Right. It's just one day, like, There's something about having a busy, busy day at work. And then like, you just pull that last ticket and it's like, kitchen closed. It's like this great gratification of like a good service is hard to get. And I think anything.

Yeah, it's definitely like that adrenaline junkie kind of feeling, right? There's nothing like that. So why write a cookbook? I mean, even if you have experience in the food world, that just seems like a daunting task to me. Like people ask me all the time, like, when's your cookbook coming out? I'm like, I don't know. That sounds kind of crazy. So yeah, I you know, like, I know why you wanted to do it. But just like the process like like, deciding that you were actually going to do that. How did that come about and get it going?

And 100% agreement, it is not easy. It was not something that was just woke up one day and was like, typed it up. And I was done. It was something I've actually been wanting to do for a little over seven years, just because every time I cook something and make something people are always asking me for recipes, or my sister is calling me and saying hey, I really want to make this like can you just guide me through it or email me a recipe or something like that? And I've always just been like, I need to put this together and not just for family or for like in order to like share my culture because I'm you know, I'm a very proud Ethiopian and I want people to know that there's this great amazing food and culture But you're missing out on and to be able to share it with the world. And unfortunately, the, you know, I've been in hospitality for so long that my work schedule is usually like 12 to 14 hour days. And, you know, it's a great idea, but when do you have the time to do it? My, I guess blessing in disguise was when the lockdown happened. And I was actually furloughed for like 18 months. That's a long time. Yeah. And so and for people like us, you know, most hospitality or people are a type, right? We need to be busy, we need to stay busy, because just sitting around doing nothing is read just, I think week one is all I could do. And then I was like, I need to put all this energy into something. And it was actually my sister that was like, you know, you've been meaning to write this cookbook, what about this as of right opportunity. And then ice kind of started doing it. And then it just really got involved. And then it was just two years of a lot of manual. Takes, like testing and everything. Because if European food, you know, especially the way I was taught is, there's no measurements, right? You do a buy, look and buy tastes. That's

how I mean, that's how a lot of us cook. I think that's one of the hardest challenges in restaurants in general, not just in cookbooks is like, so many chefs say they cook by taste, right? But then you've got to have a team who knows how to execute. So the same thing with like, a cookbook, you gotta kind of have that nailed down, right? Yeah.

And that was my issue was, you know, even like, my friends and stuff, always say, you know, you measure with your heart, because I'm like, I look and I'm like, a little bit a little bit more. I'm so just to have to cut like, you know, I'm like, wait, I need to basically give this recipe to somebody who's either never made it or has never even eaten it before. And they need to execute it the same way I would. So to have to, like measure every single thing out, there was a lot of testing that I had to do to make sure that if I tell you four tablespoons, it really is four tablespoons, you know, and so it was definitely a lot of work, but I'm not gonna lie to you. A couple of weeks ago, I received my first copy. And having all that hard work, you know, seven years of dreaming and two years of hard work in your hands is one of the best feelings I've I think you could ever have.

Well, it's a beautiful book, I got a copy of the book, in preparation for this conversation, and I'm super excited to cook from it. My experience is, there seems to be some nuance in there, not your not your book in particular. But just like Ethiopian food, when I eat it has so much flavor and depth. You've read the recipes, they always look so basic and simple. And even when I follow them, I still feel like I don't know if it's like that love like, I don't know, I don't know, do you understand what I'm saying? Like I make the recipe, measurement by measurement and you eat it. And it's just not as good as like, my favorite place I like to go to eat, you know, and I don't I talked to one of my favorite chefs, who has an Ethiopian restaurant, he says, in his opinion is probably like time like that. He's like, you know, when I cooked down my onions, I cook them for like four hours, you know, I don't know, maybe that's it?

Well, that's the thing. It's like to be honest, like the traditional way. So my the reason why my cookbook is a little bit different is also the fact that majority that people that I know, are working individuals who, who has the four hours to make us do nothing. Yeah, and I mean, like and to be honest, as much as I'd like to say that I'm that organized. I don't have all day Sunday to prep and cook for the week. Right? I would like to say I do, but I don't. And so if you're not spending all day on Sunday, making obvious dues for the whole week, then you're going to come home after work. And nothing is going to sound good to hate this dish takes four hours to complete. So the way I you know, kind of like your friend said is the dishes, you could still get the final the exact same final product. Without trying we basically without missing any form of the flavors or the you can still build the flavors in a shorter amount of time. And I mean, I guess my proof of it was when I initially started this whole project, my favorite and worst critic was my mother, who you know, I obviously showed her the recipe and she's like, what, what do you mean? 30 minutes, there's no way and she's like, no change that do it the correct way and showed me that like, you know, telling me how to do it differently. And I was like, Okay, give me a minute. And I went into her kitchen and I made the mistake with which is the lentil stew and I came out and I was like Mom, try This and then she's like a ha see much better. That's the way you're supposed to make it. And I was like No Mom, that's my recipe. She's like, Oh, then nevermind. And so getting mom's approval was, of course, everything. Right. And it's one of those things where I think if you essentially layer in the flavors, and even the shortcuts that I take is not at. It's not, it doesn't take away from the flavors, or the building of the flavors.

And I think that's what's so great about this book, because like many chefs, I think I have cookbook addiction, right? Like, I probably have too many cookbooks, and I look at them. But then when it's time to actually make food at home for the week, like, I don't have time for that these cookbooks, I use them more for inspiration. Because one recipe is like four pages, and like 30 ingredients, you know what I mean? Like you get whatever famous chefs cookbook comes out, or, you know, it could be Thomas Keller's book, it's like I'm not making any of that for my family, because it's just like crazy. I want a book that I can cook tonight's dinner, and get it on the table. So that's another reason I'm really excited for this book, because my family loves Ethiopian food. And I'm hoping that it's something that I can, you know, bang out in an hour.

And that's the good thing is like, I mean, you know, yes, your family loves Ethiopian food. But there are some people who don't even know Ethiopian food or have seen it or, like, they're just like, it seems like something so far off and hard. And then they'll look at the recipe and be like, wait, I have most of these ingredients in my cupboard. Like I just need to get the better better a which is, you know, that's that's something that's a staple, as you already know, and you can execute majority of the dishes. Oh,

I was reading it yesterday. It's like beef, I've got that I'm growing jalapenos, I'm growing tomatoes, I've got the spices. You know, we just picked up some injera at the market this week, it's like, I'm good to go. There's we're growing green, you know, it's collard greens, I've got you know, it's, it's super easy. There's nothing in there, that's really hard to find.

Yeah. And then that's the thing, it's like, you know, the only thing I suggest when people are doing it is, if there are certain things that you know, obviously, you can substitute, but then if it says, like Ethiopian butter or olive oil, don't try to use regular butter. Like don't try to use the butter from your grocery store, because it's Ethiopian butter is very specific and very different. So if you can't find that, then just use like vegetable oil or olive oil. And other than that, that would be basically the most difficult thing from the recipe. Everything else is just very light, and friendly. And, you know, most of it again, that was by a lot of trial and error where I would send it I purposely only sent it to people who were not anywhere near the hospitality world or industry don't know anything about restaurants or food. Because I wanted it to be just like the average Joe, who picks up this book and goes is this kind of scare them away, you know, and I would send it to friends, and then they'll email me back or call me back and say, Oh, my God, this was so great. But this part was confusing and stuff. And that's how I edit it and changed it to make it very user friendly.

So that's great advice for anyone I think who's looking to write a cookbook, because that's probably the biggest challenge, right is like making sure that your potential reader knows how to make these things.

Yeah. And I think for also like a lot of chefs, I mean, I can tell you, you know, I sometimes want to make something very specific different dish, and I'll call a friend of mine who's a chef and say, hey, send me a recipe and then they'll send it to me, I'm like, Okay, can you send a more like in layman's term? Because sometimes, when you're in like your chef world, you're like, you know, kind of get too specific and this and then you're like, Okay, some people are not going to understand this. And you're not going to get this. And so just think of somebody who's never cooked a day in their life. Can they grab this book, and make everything if they follow the steps?

Now, one of the things I noticed, you know, there can be some spicy food, you know, and a lot of your recipes have like, say, three tablespoons of like the Barbary, or the sub is like one tablespoon. Tumeric like, What about just cutting down to like, two tablespoons, or one tablespoon of the Barbary, like, what are your thoughts on that?

Oh, I completely agree with that. I mean, you're so I don't know if you got to the part of my book where I talk about my favorite test to do with people and it's that's my taco bell test.

Right with a sauce. The levels of the saucing.

Exactly. And so you know, a lot of people see that and go really Taco Bell. What's that got to do with Ethiopian food that's Mexican, or whatever it may be. And I always gauge it by saying like, listen, everybody's palate is different. Like I grew up eating this food so I can literally eat raw serranos and not even blink an eye because that's my level. And there are some people who have been find black pepper to be spicy, right. And so I You are right, I mean, they definitely can use less Berber Ray and get the same flavor. But now if you make like, let's say, for example, if you make the cigar wet, which is the beef stew, and instead of using the three or four tablespoons, you only use one, it will still come out good, it will be flavorful. But then if you go to an Ethiopian restaurant and order it, the food's not gonna match, right. So all the recipes are very flexible to a point where they can definitely, you know, you can tweak them based on your palate and your, you know, the way you want it. But if you're looking to make the authentic version, it's just a follow up. But if you're like, I don't even want to mess with spice, because the only way to completely avoid the spices instead of using Barbera is to use the tumeric, which is in our in our cultures. You know, you have like, for example, the beef stew the scarlet which is the spicy version, or Elijah which translates like mild. And that's the one with a tumeric. And that's why I did it with the two because if not, then the book would have been like 400 pages long B and like one tablespoon, two tablespoon and so forth.

Yeah, I'm glad that my kids can tolerate spice. It's funny, you know, I have twins, they're 10 years old. And they probably started eating Ethiopian food when they were like six. But you go to a restaurant, we order this food, you know, and I think the server's always kind of like, oh, that's spicy. Yeah. Like, like, we're good. Like, I don't want you to be like, Oh, these are like white American, like, tone it down. It's like send out everything the way that it's supposed to like normal. We'll just we'll engage from there because we you know, we'll get a platter with like, seven or eight different things on so not everything is always like blowing your doors off hot. So it's like there'll be plenty of things to eat on there. And if someone's got a little extra spice, no worries, but they like that. The lentils like my kids eat lentils from every culture, they would eat lentils every single day, whether it be Indian food. So we love that. So it's like, we always have to get double lentils, you know, we'll get to different types of the lentils. When we eat out.

That's the good thing about like this dish. And I mean, for me, you know, kind of, like you said, almost every culture has some form of a lentil dish, right? And so this could be one of those, like, personally, you know, I, the way I love and enjoy Ethiopian food is with injera, just because that's what we eat everything with. But there are some people who don't even like the flavor or the taste of injera, they find a little bit too sour, or too, like they don't like the consistency of the sponginess. So that's why my book, it's like, no, you can still eat it, but eat it with pita bread or eat overwrites. And it's still a delicious dish. But, you know, for from, like, the spice level point of view, you know, like you said, there's such a variety and you've as you eat normally we know going to an Ethiopian restaurant, we do love to eat on one big platter, right with all the different dishes. So you can go back and forth from like spicy not so spicy, meat, vegetable, there's always a salad. And it's just an overall like a fun meal. So you can create don't have to do all of them. But you can do one or two, and then just kind of build off that.

And I think that's what makes it kid friendly. Like I think a lot of people are afraid to go out to an Ethiopian restaurant like they've never had it. Like I don't have a lot of friends in the suburbs here who go out and try it. And I'm like, Yeah, my kids love it. But that whole idea like Who doesn't love like eating with your hands like, anytime my kids get to eat with their hands. I hate eating with silverware to begin with even at home. But like that idea of like sitting down the table and just like grabbing some with your hands and digging right in. It's fun and it makes my kids want to eat like they aren't interested in going to some kind of like French restaurant sit down and eating with a fork like when we ask them where they want to go proper silverware like that. They want that and they also like sushi. Now listen, my kids are not like, all foodies like they also hate normal stuff like normal kids do. But like those are their favorite cuisines. But I tell people, you should definitely take your kids and just try some like what's what's the worst that could happen? And I say that with all food in general. I'm so surprised every time I meet grown adults who like won't try something. It's like, what's the worst that happens at something you've never had? You don't love it cool. At least you tried it right?

Yeah, I mean, I'm in 100% agreement with you like I'm always, always trying out new places New and then if you even give me a remote chance of trying a new cuisine, I'm there. Because it's like, maybe you like it. Maybe you love it and it's your favorite thing. Or maybe you're like, Oh, I tried it, not my thing and then you know, keep trying more. I just think sometimes people All are afraid of the unknown, right? Like, No, I know that if I go to a like an American restaurant, I know what I'm gonna get. But what if I go there? And I don't know what they're serving? And it's like, how are you gonna find out if you don't go?

And we tons of we love the vegetarian like my wife and I used to be vegetarians, we eat meat now. But when we first had it, we were vegetarians. And that's one of the reasons we love it is there's so many great vegetarian options, but that again, that idea of a platter where you're not just ordering one dish, like we get a vegetarian platter that has like five or six things on it. So again, if you don't like one thing, no big deal there's you know, five other many other I'm gonna find something you like you bring this huge platter, but there's nothing weird on the you know, it's like lentils, everyone's had lentils, potatoes, you know, collards?

No, I know. And I think I've been asked before where it's like, can you tell me what your food is like? And I'm like, What do you mean? And it's like, well, what, like, what do you guys eat? I'm like, mean, just vegetables and stews and stuff. And then they're like, but what kind of meat? I'm like, it depends beef, chicken. And they're like, Oh, so you guys eat beef? And I'm like, yeah, like, this is why I think that a lot of it is either the misconception or the not knowing and also not trying, not trying to find out. Because I've taken a lot of first timers to go eat Ethiopian food. And they're just like, this is the best thing ever. How come? I've never had it. I've been here all along.

And that's what I want everyone to get out of this podcast is like how amazing that's why I was really excited to have you on the show when it was like, Oh, wow, I've never had anyone on the show who cooks this? You know, the cookbook, like I just want to help spread the word because I love it. And every time I tell people, most of them haven't had it. And they're kind of like, what?

Thank you so much. I'm very excited being here. And I think also even when I was like, first looking at it, and I was like, Oh, he's an amount. Oh, this is gonna be easy. He knows if you have no choice.

restaurant in town. I'm so disappointed. I don't know what happened. They were here when we moved to town. And about 10 years ago, they laughed. So I don't have anything super close. But I mean, again, DCS like we go to Falls Church, Virginia, usually for our favorite place. And that's like 40 minutes to get there. So

I Hey, I've driven our soup for my favorite restaurant. That's just me though. Like, if I'm craving something, and I want a specific thing. distances, nothing I will make it happen. And I want

to talk about coffee for a second because I find this super interesting. And I'm so glad you put this in the book. So we went to our favorite Ethiopian restaurant couple of weeks ago, Chef took me to the market next door, and he buys me this five pound bag of green coffee beans. And like, like, like what you know, like I'm fine. My coffee roasted in the store. Like, do you guys cook your own coffee? Like every everywhere in every one of the markets. They're green beans. And it's because I think traditionally like Americans, we don't do that. I don't know a single person who roast their own beans. I got this bag. I haven't done anything with it. And he was like really quickly taught him. He's like, you wash the beans. It touched them in a frying pan. When they're brown. They're done. I'm like, What are you talking about chef? Like, I'm gonna send you a DM on Facebook. So I haven't done it yet. So when I got the book, I'm like, Oh my God, there's nothing in here about coffee beans. So why? Why are you starting with green beans? Like, is there not a culture of like having already roasted coffee like,

so it's not even that I think the big part of it is, you know, first of all coffee was found in Ethiopia. Right? So coffee is a huge thing in our background. And then we have something that's called an Ethiopian coffee ceremony. And so for us, like you said, in the Western world, when you consider coffee, you're instantly as grab and go right? Versus for five minutes. Yeah, less than that. Especially if you're like me, I just drink my coffee black so it's I don't even need anything, just pour it in a cup and we're going but in the culture and Ethiopian culture, our coffee ceremony is not about just the coffee, it's a time like to chat and catch up and it's a very intimate thing and it's happens on a daily basis where it starts from the beginning right everybody sits around. There's all the pot that you have like all the little tea pots and then you have the coffee beans that are raw and you start essentially roasting them in front of your guest and then letting the aroma just kind of build in the room and people are talking and then once the coffee you know once the beans are roasted, then you mash it up usually in like a mortar and pestle. If you're trying to speed it up you can use a blender but you know, whatever works and then you boil some water you put it in the Gemina which is are the actual coffee pot and you just let it once that's boiled you let it sit again people at this time are talking usually having little snack Send desserts or whatnot. And then you brew the first round, the first round gets served. And, you know, also because it's being roasted and mash, and everything in front of you think of this coffee as like not your regular coffee that you get at Starbucks, but more of like, if you've ever been to Miami, and you have, like the Cubans that have the coarser details, like the very small, very strong, yes, press, like that's basically the strength of this coffee. So it's gonna be super strong. So that's why our, even our coffee cups are very tiny, like, almost like shot glasses. And then you drink that coffee, and then you give back your cups, and then you brew the second round. And then you do the same thing again, and the third round, and then the ceremony is over, and everybody can go about their day. And this happens every single day. It's just part of our culture. Like, for example, that every time I go home, I wake up in the morning, breakfast is out, the coffee ceremony starts. Once all that is done, then you leave the house, wherever you're doing, you come home for lunch, and here goes another coffee ceremony. And then again, later on that evening, you have dinner, and then there's the coffee ceremony, and you're always around friends and family and talking and enjoying the coffee. But it's more of like a time to really talk and catch up and spend time with the people that you're with. Then the concept of caffeine and my hand while I go go go.

Kind of like I guess like Japanese tea ceremony kind of thing.

Exactly. Exactly. So it's just, it's a you know, of course, if you want it, I'm sure they, you they you know, if you ask them, like can you roast it for me or whatever, make an roaster for you. And you can take that. But once you've actually experienced the full thing from beginning to end from the roasting it to, you know, actually mashing it and then brewing it or whatever, first of all, the coffee is gonna taste very different. And then while you're doing all that you're having so much time talking and catching up. I get it, you can do that every day in, in the Western world. But when I you know, my entire family's in the DMV area, so when I go home, especially because they're all in Northern Virginia, I you know, when I go to my mom's house, that's the one thing I look forward to, like, you know, to just be able to do that coffee ceremony and just sit there and talk and catch up with her. And, you know, my brother, my sister, aunts, and everybody, and just, yes, the coffee is there. But it's more of the bringing us together. And like, as you've seen, like the coal culture is about community, right? So we eat together, we have the coffee ceremony together, and it's all about community. So you think it's

easy enough for me to do like if I follow your recipe, and I should just jump right in and make my cry

thing, you should just jump right in and do it. Now. Like I said the only thing, the only thing is, just remember, it's not going to be the same of like the coffee that you brew from your Keurig it's going to be super strong. So okay, I'm ready, paste it out. So that you're not like wired and missing sweet.

Is there a gateway recipe or two in the book? Like for people who've never had the food? Is there something that you recommend like people start with?

Gently say like, depending right, so if you are a vegan or vegetarian definitely start with the lentil stew, which is the Mr. What I think that is going to be the most easiest segue to just kind of like, Hey, I know lentils. I'm familiar. Like I'm familiar with this. It's not, like straight into something crazy. And then if you are a meat eater, then I definitely recommend that herbs, which is a beef stir fry. And who doesn't love a beef stir fry? Right?

And those are both classic dishes. Like, again, those are things that I order all the time. I know they're gonna be delicious.

Exactly. And so I think especially for somebody who's never made it or never eaten it before, I think those two from like the vegetarian to the meat side, those are like two staple dishes that you can start with and then build on and then really work up to the raw beef. Exactly. So I would never say getting started making pitfall No, maybe, baby step and

my kids ordered that one time and it was good, but it was a lot because it was like an entree portion and they kept saying like yes, we really want this and you know, I want them to try new things and have experiences so we got I was like, Man, this is like a lot of raw beef here.

Well, that's another thing too. You can always for future. When you get it you can say Oh can we have half of it cooked and the other half raw. So you can kind of like pace it out right so that you're not shocking your stomach with something because essentially it's beef tar tar on crack All right. So I love

beef tartare. It's one of those things that I don't make it home that often. But if I go to a restaurant they have it and it's a good restaurant, I tend to get it. Oh, I don't even think we talked about what is the name of your book.

It's called a nebula, which directly translates to let's eat. So it's essentially like Italian say Mangia. And Neverland means let's eat. And it's because it's kind of like another thing part of our culture where when you see somebody, you always want to feed them, right. And so somebody walks into your house, and you're like, oh, let's eat in the land of law, or we are sitting down eating at a restaurant and you see somebody walk in, and you're immediately being like, Oh, please, please. nibbler. And so that's why I thought it was like, perfect, because every single thing in the culture and the food is constantly around eating. And I, whether it be a fun event, or you know, kind of passing by, or whatever the situation may be, I just thought, what is the best one word that would capture what our culture is? And that's the one word that I could think of.

I think it's a great name for a cookbook. Thank you. And the book comes out, is it October 4? Yep. It's actually out on

presale on, you know, multiple avenues from Amazon to target Barnes and Noble, but it will be out on October 4. We link

all that stuff in the show notes. So I will make sure everyone knows where to find this book when it comes out.

Oh, perfect. Thank you so much.

Well, please let me know if you come out to the DMV.

I definitely. Well.

Well, thanks so much for coming on the show. It has been so great to have you. Thank you so much for having me. And to all of our listeners. Thanks so much for listening. This has been Chris with the Chefs Without Restaurants podcast. Go to chefs without restaurants.org To find our Facebook group, mailing list and Chef database. The community is free to join. You'll get gig opportunities, advice on building and growing your business and you'll never miss an episode of our podcast. Have a great week.