Mexican Cooking and Funding a Restaurant - A Conversation with DC Chef Christian Irabién of Amparo Fondita and Muchas Gracias

Alright, welcome to the Chefs Without Restaurants podcast. This is Chris and today I'm flying solo without Andrew. So hopefully it's a good episode. But I've come down to Washington DC to speak with a special guest. I'm excited to talk to you today. So why don't you go ahead and give yourself a little intro? Who were you? And what do you do?

And even Christian Irabien. I am Mexican Chef. 20 years DC residentt. And in the process of trying to open a restaurant... emphasis on the trying.

Yeah, so how long has that process been going?

We're about 16 months in

Wow. 16 months when did that when did the vision first start for the restaurant? Because I know a little bit about it seems like it's been a little while that you've wanted to be doing this.

Yeah, I think a long long time. Well, over well over eight, nine years. It's taken many, many different forms to what it is now. But yeah, it's it's it's a process of visualizing and putting pen to paper and then actually taking actionable steps to

set a goal. So what's the name of the restaurant?

The name of the restaurant is Amparo Fondita. Amparo is Spanish for shelter. And it's also my mother's name and my grandmother's name. And Fondita is just a name that in Mexico we give to small neighborhood eateries

by the opportunity to check out your pop up that you did over a District Space. How long ago was that? Was that a year ago? A little over a year ago? I think you did.

A year ago. Summer 2018. Yeah,

yeah. How did that go for you over there?

really well. surprisingly well, I think unexpectedly well We had a space to work in, was the first time where we had a kitchen that was stable enough to be open for longer than a few hours, and tables and chairs and apart. And we were able to take the concept and division and put it out for people and had an amazing reception.

Is there a world where if it didn't go, Well, you would have maybe not thought about continuing the process of opening a restaurant? Or would you have just kind of stuck to your guns and pushed ahead making changes?

Well, I think by virtue of existing in the restaurant world, when things go wrong, I think it only makes me want to do it more. I think one thing that I was taught and learned in kitchens growing up is that if it doesn't hurt, it's probably not working. So good advice. So Yeah, I don't know if if we would have had a full on failure, I think it would have been a moment of reflection, stepping back, figuring out what went wrong and getting back to it.

So it makes you want to open a restaurant. I mean, it's not easy. I see you kind of like, looking around right now thinking about that in DC when there's so many opportunities to be a chef somewhere else, why do your own thing and why now?

Why now? Because I think much like everything in life, I think. You start doing things when you start feeling like you're ready to do them. I it's taken me quite a while to get to where I am right now through a long process of learning opportunities and failures and accidents and just life in general. But I think getting to where I am right now, I needed to I feel like I was ready to do it. And I hadn't felt that until we started doing this. But and secondly, why this is because very much out of selfish point of view is, when I go out to eat, and I want Mexican food, there's not really anywhere that I feel like I could go get the things that I want to eat, at least on a regular basis that's approachable. And that has the items in the menu that I would like to eat that aren't necessarily just the template menu items that you see in every Mexican restaurant across the country.

Is there a reason why it seems to be so homogenous? I mean, I find that you go out and everyone's got the same menu items. And I'm not really excited about a lot of the Mexican food I'm seeing. I mean, we obviously have a couple cool places in DC. But for the most part, it seems like they're almost interchangeable.

Yeah, I think. I don't know. I don't know if it's a human condition or An American condition. But people like to pigeonhole things, it's a lot easier to digest. When you know that when you go into a place, you're going to get the, you're going to be able to get the rigatoni and red sauce on me. Or if you're going to go to a great place that you aren't going to be able to get the Tiki in the lamb. Or if you hang on to a Mexican restaurant, you're going to be able to get the carnitas taco. I think it's the innate necessity for people to identify and feel familiar with what they're getting. But to a certain extent, we feel that it's it stunts, the ability of cuisines and cultures to be able to extend further because there's no there's no room for growth. Right if you're just making the same five things everywhere, yeah. Which also faces an interesting challenge of if we do this, or is anybody going to come right?

So, um, you know, not not everyone's a chef. I mean, you're definitely a chef and coming from a chef background, you know how many people are coming here from st Mexico, and it's just kind of family cooking, but they're not coming out from that chef angle. I mean, just because you come from a place doesn't mean you're necessarily best suited to be cooking the food and selling it in a professional setting. But, you know, to me, it feels that way. A lot of times I go in places and it just feels like it's basic, maybe isn't the word for it. But you know, it's like, I feel like you just opened a can of premade refried beans and are just kind of phoning it in here.

Yeah, I think people like to play it safe. Thank you. I think it's easy to try to play it safe and try to exist in your comfort zone. And again, those fears of, of experimentation and what effects it will have on the business and how many people are actually going to come and do it is I think a very real one when it's, you know, it's your money on the line. It's your name on the line. It's all your entire The likelihood of your entire team online, you know, and how to make sure that people are coming in the door. So I think a lot of people definitely play it safe. Because of that, and I'm sure like a million other reasons, but for us, it's sort of, you know, trying to figure out how do we how do we bring the familiar things while also making room for for, you know, things that are maybe not not as commonly known? Yeah, I mean, and how do we present those familiar things in a different way?

That's something like are you doing next analyze mango or something like that at your pop up or on a desert or something? There was just some like, really interesting thing where like, I've never seen that.

Yeah, we were, we were an externalizing papaya. So yeah, and I think we mix analyzed a bunch of fruit so we metabolize the corn to cook and then grind to make them suffer the tortillas and I think through a series of Just like boredom and, and knowledge of other chefs in Mexico doing certain things, we just started throwing different things into a pot that was had the slack line in the water and just trying to see what what happened. And I just ended up having like an incredible texture.

Yeah, like I find that's not something you're gonna find in any other Mexican restaurant around here. Yeah,

yeah, I think and yeah, that kind of just goes back to our point of most of the menus that we find in the city and sometimes even beyond the city, unless you're going somewhere like New York or San Francisco, or LA or Chicago, where the food seem tends to be a little bit more. I don't I don't know if avant garde is the word but definitely a little more adventurous.

Yeah. I mean, I was at the causeway in October, and that's not the kind of Mexican food you're seeing in most places.

Yes. Like, I mean, I think if you don't know who the chef that close man is, and you'd have nothing don't necessarily know what to expect when you walk in the lesson and expected for that place to be a Mexican restaurant. Yeah. So, yeah, I think, to have that freedom and the platform to be able to execute something like that. I don't know. I mean, we hope and want DC to be there. Our hope is that we are able to get to a point where when we open the doors, people aren't expecting skulls, pink walls, sombreros and, you know, endless chips and salsa but rather coming in for a cultural experience of not just flavors but also cooking techniques on beyond music, cocktails service, that are maybe not necessarily as portrayed or As expected from the places or in the city currently executing Mexican food.

So how did you first get involved in professional cooking? Did you Were you always do a little love cooking. Did you have that story of growing up cooking with family and then working at little places? or How did you end up where you are now? Well, I

I grew up eating for sure. I grew up in Mexico where our family the family unit is very much still a thing. eating out is a thing you do for a special occasion. But on the day to day, breakfast, everybody gets together at the breakfast table. Everybody goes to work goes to school. If you were close enough to the house, which a lot of times you do, you come home for lunch. You see the family leave again, come back after work, dinner, everybody comes to dinner, and it's just a giant bounty of food. The entire family's there. It's very communal, very familiar. When we moved to the States, all of that spread out and it disappeared. When we get to the states 1992 my grandparents open up a small Mexican restaurant and El Paso, Texas. So throughout like the end of my middle school, and my high school years, I spent time at that restaurant, which is not a restaurant like we know them to be now, it was definitely a small family spot in a strip mall in the middle of like a really small town in Texas where I did everything from like sweeping floors bussing tables, killing shrimp, washing dishes, and I but I don't necessarily know that at those points. I had any kind of correlation to what I was doing. I think it was just sort of like this is what the family's doing. So these things need to get done. So go do them. Then, after I left, Texas, come up here. I was pursuing Business Administration. Mostly because that's my family wanted me to do that. My family be sights the restaurant in El Paso had food establishments in Mexico like through the entirety of their lives. My grandfather grew up in medela Yucatan, and he I mean from everywhere from helping fishermen bring fish from the coasts into restaurants to the maitre D to being a sales rep for Bacardi to eventually owning and operating his own distribution of sugar in Mexico that dealt to liquor companies, Coca Cola, bimbo, like all of the different places that need sugar in the region, before the government took the sugar industry over. So it was definitely always a very food centric house. And growing up a lot of the business ventures my grandfather and my family took were often food related. When I got up here, and I started working at the fund and the World Bank and these, you know, interest organizations where my family was pushing me to go was always out of born out of this, like, never work in a restaurant, having a better life. Yeah, like, it's really hard work, don't do what we did do something better. But after a certain amount of time, being in a cubicle for five hours a day, it was just not my bag. And then I started trying to explore what route I want to take. And food sort of just started coming back into existence. Again, having no idea what working in a restaurant was, other than that restaurant that we had, where I don't know if like, some of the some of the chefs that I had worked with early on had come into the kitchen it was it would have been probably one of those like Ramsay's kitchen nightmare situations. So once I started experimenting and started studying and taking plenary classes the the challenge that it started providing and the the crazy intense structure that kitchens had that it was something I'd never seen before was what started drawing me in. And eventually I just sort of had to make a you know how to how to come to Jesus moment had to make a decision do I leave a very well paying job with benefits controlled hours, nine to five and Monday through Friday to go make minimum wage for you know, 13 hours a day in like a basement kitchen. So like we were saying earlier, it sounded terrible. So, so obviously, that's the route I took. And then yeah, I just, you know, I don't know that I necessarily found cooking I think it's sort of found me I think I tried. Through my growing up, I tried so many different things, trying to figure out what I wanted to do. And this one was the one that sort of stuck. And

what kind of kitchens are you working in? And where they kind of Eurocentric French technique kind of fancy places? When did when did you know you want to stick with Mexican because you know, you could have easily just started working at a place like the French Laundry and stay with that kind of cuisine forever. I could see the drop mat. So what kind of places were you studying and working at?

Yeah. So the very, very, very first restaurant that I started, that I started in here in DC, was a place that is no longer called hook out in Georgetown, where I've made some of my current and best friends. Shout out to Tom and Andrew at Buford zone where that's sort of where I met them and sort of like that. was a very first kitchen that I'd ever walked into where I saw vegetables I'd never seen before I saw fish that I'd never seen before. I saw people doing things with food that I'd never seen before. And it was just sort of like, eye opening. One of the one of the conversations I had with someone early on, which I think was very, very helpful for me was when trying to decide what kind of restaurant or what restaurant I needed to be in, was. Chef said to me, you know, figure out what the best restaurant in the city is. And try to go work there because you can always work your way down, but it's much harder to work your way back up. So, I figure that out. And shortly thereafter, I found myself working at restaurant even Alexandria, which was intense is a very, very intense environment. A lot of people coming from French Laundry and per se and Very para-militaristic. But, you know, I at that point I was I was a lot younger and I really wanted it and it hurt real bad, but I kept showing up. But that place I think that place, if nothing else, it showed me a lot of it showed me a lot of work ethic. It showed me a lot of technique and a lot of what I've grown up to have of like how to move and exist inside of a kitchen environment. Shortly thereafter, I moved from there I was, I was trying to, you know, kind of connect with my food restaurant, he was very American, French, very French influence the structure from the structure to the cooking and working with that group. As I stayed with them, they started giving us more or giving me more liberty to work on specials and work with different ingredients and have a little bit more freedom as to what we were cooking. As those stores started opening, my brain started going back to the food I grew up with. And I guess my question was always or started becoming, you know, I'm, I'm cooking all this food in a really intense way. But I've never seen Mexican food cooked or presented that way. Like anywhere like I was I grew up in places where the Mexican food was on a brown plastic plate with a slop of like red rice, slop of beans and whatever your protein was, and it was delicious. But it was just that was just sort of like across the board when the food was. So going from that perception of what food was to walking into a place where you're doing, you know, nine to 12 courses of like, perfectly cooked whales and perfectly cooked squats to you know with like a zoo and a sauce and a vegetable check. And powder and a flower and very composed dishes which I, you know, I think even in my wildest dreams before I got to work with that team, I had never imagined food was like that, you know. So that opened up a lot of vision for me. But that also opened up the need to start looking at Mexican food. So at that point, that's when I started kind of looking back at Mexico and trying to see what the food scene was down there, who the chefs were, who was doing things and what they were doing. Eventually, that led me to start exploring more restaurants in the city. And that's when I found Well, I went to go eat there, and it blew my mind. It was

I think, were they at that time, had they? I'm sure they had some notoriety, but were they as big as they are?

They're No, absolutely not. I think probably TFG at that point was at the pinnacle of making this decision. massive shift of going. I mean, Jose was already at least a DC household name if not, you know, International. It was the restaurants were still very,

very locally run. So the chef's, everybody had, you know, like pretty much oversight and responsibility for their own restaurants. But as time has progressed, and now they become bigger than it's become more of a, you know, a large restaurant. Yeah. So they have they have more players into what goes in each restaurant. But when I got there, it was not only were they working with incredible technique, and with super talented team again, a lot if not the majority of my kitchen friends I've met and still hold really close and good relationships with either worked with me at TFT during my time or work there before or work there after or We have some sort of like connection of to working with Jose. And it sort of just started. I mean, to me it was it was it was it's an incredible to me it's always an incredible feeling walking into a kitchen into a French kitchen and smelling chicken stock incorporate young cooking in the morning like that smell of just like vegetable steaming, for some reason, just like makes me lose my mind. It's amazing. But walking into a kitchen and smelling burning corn and chilies is life changing. So for me to go from something where I was learning to, I mean, definitely IML still learning but working with products and flavors and just ingredients across the board that I was familiar with was it was just exciting, because I had no idea about a lot of things. You know, I mean, even conversations with my family currently when we talk about stuff that we cook, and we say stuff like oh, we're making more And then my grandmother, my mother will ask me what we're doing. And I'll say, you know, it's like a three day process. And it's all these ingredients and this and that. And they both look at me like dumbfounded going, like, you know, you can just buy this. What? Why are you doing this? So I think it's a little bit difficult for them to correlate, you know, like the need to like, really roll up your sleeves and get into the food. But when they eat it, and they sit down with me, and we talk about it, well, it goes one of two ways. It goes to wow, this is really good, or like, this is not actually good food at all. This isn't how we used to make it. But yeah, so then that's when I got to when I got to IML that's when I started really exploring and, and, you know, lucky enough to be within a restaurant group that normally worked with a lot of really, really good talent, but also gave us the ability and the freedom to experiment and the resources to play around with food, cooking equipment, ingredient, whatever it was. Every time we doing many changes or seasonal changes was like, here's, here's what we're doing. What do you want to do with it? Which way? Do you want to take it? Do you need something? We'll get it for you.

So the first time I ever had insects or the grasshopper tacos there, you know, I think that's one of the things if you're down you have to try when you go there. It was literally the first restaurant I ever ate at when we moved here. We got here in oh seven and I knew Jose from Spain and Italy and all that and I was super excited to eat one of his restaurants. And I went there and yeah, had a great meal. And I've been there a number of times.

Yeah, I mean, it's it's kind of magical what they've had what they were able to do with the restaurants not mean Oyamel to me holds a big place not only because I you know, cried and bled there for a while, but also because it's, I mean to me, in Washington, DC it's like the if I think of somewhere to go tasty, authentic Mexican flavors. That's where I think about going if I really want to go eat some like and you know regardless of how far and wide my cooking abilities are, my eating habits are super simple. And when I think of like what I want to eat what makes me really feel like I'm being hugged from the inside is really good. Rice, nice warm tortillas and, and some salsa. So I mean I could completely subsist for the rest of my life eating rice beans, salsa Thirteen's like that's it.

Where do you stand on tortillas? Do you feel you have to make your own tortillas? And not necessarily like, can you start with a really good masa and make them and should you be I know, it's not necessarily realistic and a small mom and pop. But you know, I feel like a great tortilla really makes a taco or your Mexican food and a lot of places I just don't think are using really good tortillas.

Yeah, I mean, I think one of the conversations we have continuously is, you know, when you go to an Italian restaurant, and they're making their pasta, it's a completely different experience. Right? You're having a sandwich and the bread is either bacon house or they're getting really good bread it changes completely your experience of the sandwich. And the same we see the same with masa. Do you have to I don't think you have to, I think you, you create the experience that you're trying to create and everybody's artistic vision or shove vision is different. And everybody puts up the best product that they know with the tools that they have,

right, and even even flour tortillas like I you know, I think flour tortillas have like a reputation or whatever. But the first time I made flour tortillas I used Enrique O'Hara's recipe I was like, wow, this is like what a flour tortilla could be. I was just dumbfounded because I don't think I'd ever had one. I don't know any place. You see corn tortillas being made at some places, but I can't remember ever having had a flour tortilla. That was homemade. I made them and I thought this is just like the greatest tortilla I could ever had. It was amazing.

Yeah. And I think it's a sad reality to I mean, if you go if you go even in Mexico, because of I guess our current state and you know, you want to start getting like, which we won't, but if you wanted to start getting like political about it, like everything, you know, drawn up from NAFTA and the way that, you know, big I grow crops have, you know, grown in Mexico and imports and exports of all of these things and how that shaped the Mexican diet. There's people, there's people living in Mexico, the birthplace of corn and the tortilla, who have never had a tortilla made from fresh masa, like they've grown up eating maseca just like dry flour and water, make a tortilla tortilla, or they're buying them at the shop, because it's cheaper that way or it's more accessible or, you know, a million a million other reasons. So it's it's a little sad that you exist in that place and you've never had one let alone coming to the states where we live in a society of convenience.

Yeah, we're doing the same here. You know, I grew up in New England and I think like baked beans and my mom made a great one. But most people didn't make make beans like they just open a can of Bush's baked beans and have them on Saturday night with hotdogs. And it's like, there's generations of people who've never had real homemade baked beans when they're really not that hard. I mean, it's just time you have to put them in a pot and give them like three hours but you know, the same as doing good Mexican beans. And I'm sure there's plenty of people just open cans of beans for their every Friday.

Yeah, yeah, I mean that, that I think I'm, I'm uncertain for worldwide but I'm, if I had to make an assessment, I think worldwide. people as a whole are sort of walking backwards and this perceived notion of convenience of being able to like, purchase something on the quick and just open a can or open a bag and just microwave it or quick like eat it up quickly in a pie. It's making people afraid of food. People don't necessarily know how to cook and generation are being born into families that don't cook or can't cook or won't cook. And it just kind of breeds the cycle of the inability to touch food and interact with it. I mean, I have I have friends, I'm, I'm going to be 40 next month. So I have friends in my age range that still to this day, like, what they what they have for dinner is like a can of spaghetti. Yes.

Have you seen the packaged cut meat so you don't have to touch raw meat like this thing now where it's like you can buy like chicken cube that is marketed towards like, you don't have to get your hands all gross with Romney. You just like peel back the poll easy lid and dump it right into a pot, you know, because nobody wants to touch raw chicken. Yeah, I mean, it's like just wash your hands and wash your cutting board, but they're really kind of marketing towards that even for people who are gonna be cooking, make it easy, but also make it less gross or interactive or whatever that word is you'd use to like why you don't want to touch Romney. Yeah, I don't

I mean, I think it's just like, you know, like everything else is, you know, if you think about like war and everything else happening in the world, it's just a lot easier to turn the TV off, right? So yeah, you want to you want to eat the chicken, but you don't want to know that it was a chicken that it came from a farm that it was.

That's one of my, that's one of my big things. I cook a lot of organ meats. And you know, there's two camps on that. But, you know, I'll post pictures on social media and people push back and I'll say, like, you wanna have a conversation like, let's not be hypocrites about this. I caught a lot of flack because last year, the Frederick news post ran an article about me and they, they didn't have time to shoot a headshot, and they said, we'll send in a photo and I sent in a photo of me with this roasted pigs had it done. It's me leaning on a table with his pig said, and they ran it in the paper. And they ran that article online and the comments section went insane about how vulgar it was, how provocative it was, how disgusting it was. And I spent three days in the comment section people like you know, the rule, don't read the comments. don't engage the trolls. I'm like, No, I'm gonna use this as an opportunity to have a very respectful conversation. with people about meat eating and all that, and people come and say, Well, I'm vegan, I say cool. I love vegan food, like, I was vegetarian for five years, like I respect that. But if you eat meat, like why are you okay with eating? You know, a pork chop, but not a roasted pig? So like, let's have that conversation. Yeah, I spent four days just answering comments on I don't know that I swayed anyone but it felt good personally to have that conversation. right decision a friend came over this past weekend to brought 40 pounds of organ meat for me, so I was kind of excited because they get a cow custom butchered, and they didn't want any of that. So I got like, tone liver and all that stuff. And I'm super excited. It's tasty stuff when you cook it right. I'm looking forward to cooking up that tongue. Yeah, but I mean, like language is a totally normal thing in Mexican restaurants. People might not always know what it is. If there's no translation there but we went to club l recently in Baltimore, and I took my kids there and my kids said they wanted beef. tacos and on the menu, there's like no ground beef and they didn't even have beef beef. The only option was lango. So I just said, you know, yep, to lengua tacos and they came in the kids ate them, and they were fine with it. And after the fact, I told them and they were still fine with it. You know, I think my kids handle that better than most grown adults around here.

But yeah, I think it's, you know, it's, it's, it's the perception, you know, it's kind of like the grasshoppers, right? They're just a protein, they're very much part of diet. Like, people, people like entire people's diets, that it's still current. And not just that much ago, you know, across the world. But it's the association that we have, because of the, of the place that we live, right. Yeah. So yeah, I don't know. It's, it's interesting to see how people are willing to, you know, eat and participate in certain things but not but don't want to face and or accept, you know, what the realities are of it and how it's becoming or how it's Getting to the table.

And I guess there's the fine line of educating your customer but not being preachy because I kind of walk that line a little bit like nobody really wants to be talked to or at but I think you need to kind of have those conversations. So figuring out a way to do that, you know, very quickly just last week, I had a customer wanted like a dinner and they put that they didn't want ethnic food, you know, like what is that? What does that mean? Like is there any food that's not ethnic food because they didn't want their food from their heritage and what they meant is like very Eurocentric food and we talked about this on the last podcast with our guests. You know, just but just that idea of like that code for like no brown person food or and what they end up wanting was like Philemon, neon, and you know, like a nice salad with some cool stuff and like, European food, but they didn't say we want Europe classical European food. They didn't say we want French food. They said nothing distinctly ethnic which like breaks that what I say I like to cook is like I want to cook foods from Mexico in Thailand in the Middle East, and I'm kind of bored by having a cup like another flavian Yellin but right pays the bills.

Yeah, I don't know. I think also it's just, you know, it's education and just knowing, knowing what to eat, you know, like I said, I grew up eating very, very basic form of food. And it was only because of like my own personal drive to want to learn more about it that I've gotten to learn more about it. But even to this day, I find cuisines and foods that I've never seen before. So unless you're willing and open to try those things, you're probably not going to find them. I think it's sort of like on us as chefs and restaurant tours and you know, people in the food scene and whatever community that we're in to educate the public and, you know, let them know and have conversations, maybe not four days worth of

my off time.

But definitely having conversations with the public of you know, sure. I mean, you know, it's really good, but language is really good. Also beef cheeks really good. Also, you know, awful. It's really good. So it's just a matter of presenting the food in a way that's more palatable. And, you know, I think people just have these perceptions of things just being gross, because they've never had it. You know, like, you said, your kids had language, they probably didn't think twice about it. They're like, this is great. And they ate it, the flavors were there. We have conversations about how kids don't eat vegetables when they're kids. And that's sort of the stigma. But it turns out that kids don't like vegetables when they're kids because mom over cooks the crap out of the work, there's no salt in it, or it's not fresh, and it's out of a can, you know, like,

adults don't even we let our kids run wild with the condiments like right now they're on a period with a Valentino hot sauce. You know, it's like, we just put a bottle on it. My daughter doesn't want to eat whatever, like she'll ask if she can get hot sauce like you can always get hot sauce like I don't even care if it's pizza. If you're gonna eat it with hot sauce cool and we have like a whole variety of hot sauces in the fridge and they love that touching seasoning, you know, they call it Taki seasoning because it tastes like the chips. Yeah, we have that on the Lazy Susan on our table and the kids are allowed to get up and season their food. So we go a little milder on some things and then just whatever condiments that they want to get a whole grain mustard, a hot sauce, some spice last night, my son wanted to sprinkle cumin on his dinner, cool, you know, and just let them kind of experiment with flavors and see what they like. It's beautiful. I

mean, kids should, should have access to those things. And I don't know if it's, again, just society or, you know, laziness or, you know, general life fatigue and exhaustion, and the ability to just, again, just buy a can of something and put it on the table that makes people go that route. But you know, like everything else that the easy ways is not necessarily always the best way. Yeah,

and I'm sure the kind of sidebar on education, I'm sure another thing you're going to be tackling is cost. I mean, I'm sure you're no stranger to the whole thing that Mexican food supposed to be cheap, right? And, you know, tacos are $3. So why is this? Why is your taco $12 or whatever? And that's kind of the plight of the high end Mexican restaurant. Oh,

yeah. Well, I mean, your tacos can be $3. But that also means that the kind of meat that we're using, yeah, is going to justify that price. The kind of tortillas that we're using, it's going to justify that

what I love Taco Bamba, and I'm amazed at the prices that they're able to charge for their tacos. You go in there and you think like, wow, I would have paid a lot more for their tacos as well.

Yeah, well, I think what Taco Bamba has going for them is that all of all of the races are super flavor packed. Yes. And you know, going back to the tortilla, maybe they're not making the tortillas, but you almost don't even really think about it. 30 years because every time you take a bite, you're getting like punch with flavor. It's not just like bland food. It's not just for like, here's a piece of food. There's so many places that I've eaten that in the district and outside of this area where people make a Mexican restaurant or Mexican eatery, and it's sort of like we'll buy the stuff, we'll put lettuce on it. And something like people the guy on film, you have Mexican food, but then there's no seasoning, no flavor, like, just No, no correlation to like the roots or the history or like what the dish actually is, you know, they'll put stuff on the menu and have no idea what like, what they're cooking, or why it's called that or if even what they're calling one thing is really what they're putting out there. But yeah, I think Baba has had really, really good luck with with making sure that their formula stays true and stays consistent. And they've seen a lot of growth and they're being super super successful doing it.

And then you have interesting things like not that they're not making money, but is it somewhat of a loss leader for their high up, you know, then they have a more formal dining experience next door. Is that the kind of gateway where you get someone for $3 tacos? It's delicious. And then you think, Oh, well, they also have like a taco macaques say, you know, there are other restaurants and I don't know, maybe it builds like kind of customer loyalty or brand awareness in some respect to because you do see that with some places. And having like the higher end restaurants alone, the less expensive ones is kind of gateways.

Yeah. Well, I think it's, I think it's just like the nature of the beast, right? restaurants are notoriously very risky situations, and they're very expensive to run from labor to food to keeping the lights on. I mean, you name it, you're just you're spending money. I think it's the only industry that works backwards from all the other industries where you're allowed to start up in your garage with like cardboard boxes and a sharpie. And when you open a restaurant, you're expected to full front like $1.5 million, and wow, everyone with everything you've got. Yeah. So I think and you know, a lot of restaurant groups like, I think it's a smart thing to do. And if you have The means and the capability to do it to have like, one of the places bring home the bacon and one of the places be your place where you get to do what you want to do and put, you know the story that you're trying to put on the plate, which not necessarily is always money making, like sound business decision.

So I guess that brings me to opening a restaurant, you're trying to actively open a restaurant, and I want to just find out kind of how that's going and some of your challenges and where you're at with that and what you need.

What I need. That's a long, that's a long list. Well, we are in the process of trying to find a new space we spent the better part of the last 12 months pursuing a space that I think we hit a point where it was Both starting to become a little expensive for us to continue pursuing. And we had to sort of just make the decision of like, after a certain amount of time, it's like, do we keep the we keep pushing with this? Or do we, you know, it's a time to take a step back and regroup and see what our next step is. That's sort of where we're at. We're regrouping right now. We spent, we spent a good amount of time pursuing this and with it comes not just you know, pursuing the project, but everything involved with it, which is putting the product out there, according investors, networking within the industry, and figuring out how to do all of those things, full time without having a full time, job commitment, and still somehow being able to eat and pay the rent and, you know, get gas in the car and get to and from every event. It's taxing financially, emotionally. spiritually.

Is it hard finding investors?

Yes, very hard finding investors, I think it's just from speaking to everyone. We've been really lucky in our process of pursuing this, that we have a really good network of very successful people in the industry that we've been able to reach out to and have sort of held on our side whenever we've had questions or doubts, and everyone's been super open with us. But any any of them will tell you that getting the money is the hardest part, unless you've got the bank account to support it, or you take the less traditional route or maybe more traditional route, I'm not sure of going to the bank and taking a loan out for yourself. Having to ask strangers for large amounts of money and a market that is as saturated as DC is very difficult, particularly for first venture,

just as any part of it being a Mexican restaurant you think way into that or being someone from Mexico? Are they more likely to fund a French restaurant or an Italian restaurant? Or it's just like the nature of the beast and anyone?

Yeah, I think. I think it's like I think it's depending on your I think it's depending on your network and your product. Obviously, people that are investing money want to have the safest route to go. I think for a lot of people also. I don't know from someone that's not in the industry that's trying to put money in something that sounds more financially viable to that might be opening something like that's super bar heavy, and it's just cranking out food that's low costs and the experience and you know, everything that we try to put in as restaurant tours and chefs to create this experience isn't necessarily something that they factor or really care much about.

Yeah, I can't imagine investing money in a restaurant if I wasn't in the business. You Now like I do it, because I love it. But I mean, they are notoriously harder to make a profit on. And I'm sure there are other business models that you can make money on little model restaurants and I just had money to put somewhere. I don't know that I would invest in a restaurant that wasn't mine. So yeah, sure. That's an uphill battle.

Yeah, that's an uphill battle. We, I mean, we hit we've talked to, we talked to a million people of all different backgrounds. And one of the things that one of the biggest things, the conversations that we had or kept coming up was, and often one of the very first things was, you know, what about your friends and family around? You know, how much have you raised for that? And for me as a as a first generation immigrant, you know, and this happens to a lot of people is that we're the ones sending money back home, like we like I'm I make my paychecks and portion of that goes back home. So me asking my close friends and family is like something so unrealistic for me to, like be able to gather. I mean, $5,000, let alone 30,000 40,000 $200,000 that's just something that, at least in my life will not happen. Maybe other people have different access to different things. So when people ask us, like, what, where's your friends and family stuff? Like, what what does that look like? And we're like, well, we are the friends and family.

Is there an industry standard for like, what that should make up? Is there kind of a formula that like, 30% of your money should be friends and family? Like, I don't know anything about that kind

of stuff for I mean, I don't know that there is a formula obviously, I think investors would want to see a big chunk of that come in, you know, obviously, the more skin you got in the game, the more safe everyone's gonna feel, the less money they have to give you the more safe but I don't know. I mean, we talked to so many people and quite literally every Every single person investor that we spoke with, had a different suggestion or advice for of how to do it. So we didn't really see any, like standards where, you know, we talked to Person A and Person B, and they're like, Oh, right, they said the same thing. It was always like, Oh, you should do it. Like, you know, you you start with step one, and then you go to step two, is

to not have a consensus.

I think it would be Yeah, I mean, that was for as I was one of the most difficult parts, trying to like, go back and regroup. And then, you know, like, we have to pitch 20% it's just like, I mean, do we go with like, what we know, do we go with what the last person told us? Do? We know we'll go with what like the person that actually is writing a check already to us said like, which one is the winning thing here? But I think for us, the thing that we found to be more successful was just to do what we do. I'm not sure if it's an investor thing or or what but I think at a certain point, particularly people that are successful in business, or maybe maybe it's just human nature, right? Like we all want to believe that we are always making the the rightest decision out of all of the decisions to be made. So when we talk to people, and we either ask questions like, I think when we first started, we, we did open the doors for suggestions, and we would ask for advice. We would ask questions when we're talking to Messrs. But we definitely got to a point where we're like, we're not looking for like your advice, like, this is what we're doing. Like we're opening a restaurant, we need this much money are you in Are you out, but at a certain point, like, you know, especially when you're sort of like still kind of navigating like what it looks like, and you're not necessarily like, feeling super confident about what the conversations are gonna go because you've never done it. You're, you open yourself up to like stuff and you start thinking about it, you internalize that and you process it and you try to make the best decision out of that. But then you get to a point where you're doing it so much and you're having to talk to so many people and you know, Your time starts getting so limited, that you're exhausted like, you just like, hey, like, I, thank you, thank you for what you're saying. But this is what we're doing.

I'm sure one of the things that can make you successful is being unique or new or different, but that's the more riskier thing. So I'm sure people who are looking to invest, already want to look at existing business models that are working and generating revenue, but that maybe, you know, the playing the safe route isn't necessarily going to be the thing that makes you successful. Yeah. So I'm sure that's challenging if you're trying to do something new or different, and

I don't know if it's a strong suit, or, or a weak point and also in society, and it you see it across the board with everything. It's like the chicken or the egg, right? I mean, even when you look at people trying to find jobs, and they're like, well, we want someone with a years experience, and it's like, well, no one will get me a job. Like I get the experience.

The same with cooks, you know, it's like looking at experience versus none. You know, I'm at the point where I actually would rather hire someone with no experience and train them the way I want. But from a corporate standpoint, if you work for company, they say They want a degree, you know. So I can't tell you how many like chefs I've hired from culinary schools that come in, and they're terrible. And I actually had a lot better luck with an 18 year old who had never worked in a restaurant. But the company Stan says, We want you to hire someone with a culinary degree. You know, and it's just, it's kind of hard. You know,

I think the schools have a big part of playing that because and I don't know if this is on every industry, but definitely from seeing culinary school and talking to people coming from different schools. They don't they don't teach you what what what life after school to look like once you leave with your with your diploma and your two years or associates or bachelor's, whatever you did from the CIA or somewhere else, or, you know, you name it, the plethora of schools that are out there. And, you know, we see it and that, and, you know, we get kids that are like, Oh, I just graduated. So I want like I'm here for the executive sous chef position, that don't necessarily know how to take something. Yeah. And I think that's just Something that I don't know if it's instilled in on purpose or sort of just insinuated where they sort of built this false sense of confidence in people. I think to a certain degree, when I started out, I maybe felt a little bit like that just because of what school had like, put on, but then you got on the field and you're like in the middle of the battle, and you don't know how to use your right so I went

to Johnson & Wales. I have a four year bachelor's I graduated in 98. I think at the time they're saying like, you can start at up to $100,000 a year. I have never made $100,000 like I got out of culinary school in 1998. And I'm still waiting for that hundred thousand dollars a year. They're talking about but they talked about, you know, like a 98% placement rate. And some of our graduates are making $100,000 their first year out. I wonder who those people are. But that's the kind of thing they're selling you this dream that I don't think is really attainable. It's like I want the like the thing like results are not typical warming at the bottom. That statement to say, you know, like when the die thing like this woman was 400 pounds like results not typical. It's more like 25 pounds.

Yeah, they're selling you the Food Network, right? They're saying to you, that you that you're going to be able to cook and, and be this like person but I mean, the reality is like, Can you do it? Sure. I mean, I think anyone's capable of doing that if that's the avenue you want to pursue. Or you're gonna have to eat some show that process like and if you're not willing to like put in the time and put in the work and be able to like, take some hits and get back up every time you get them. You're definitely not gonna you're not gonna you're not gonna be able to stay in the industry for a long time, let alone get on like that level. And that's what

builds the all the experience brought you to this place where you are now I believe, you know, it's like, if I started even higher, I don't think I'd be as successful as I am now. Like on my own in my own right. So what's next, for building to get to where you want to be? Are you going to continue to do pop ups. I know you've had a couple things here and there. I saw was the last week you do Like a breakfast taco pop up.

Yeah, we did. We did. We teamed up with the guys at Sun cinema and our friends at second breakfast that do like vintage fashion pop ups. And we had, I think it was over beers that were been talking about doing something breakfast, and together and the opportunity just arose and we just sort of slept a table together and made scrambled eggs and sold some clothes and drank some Bloody Marys is super fun. Sounds awesome. Yeah.

Do you see more formal type dinner pop up like small scale like you're doing a district space or like one night only anything on the horizon?

Oh, yeah. As it comes. Yeah, I mean, right now definitely take it as it comes. Like a I'm not sure if I mentioned it or not, but you know, where were all the teams very much still consulting and doing work everywhere. So our schedules are and ideas and events are variable. contingent on, on where we're at currently, but yeah, I mean, we're definitely doing private events. The the one we're excited about is happening in March, which is for Whitmore silver Club, which is Kylie from mission. Michelle, who just saw that a couple days

ago.

Yeah. And she started, she came to one of the pop ups. And we met at one of the pop ups and then she's just she's actively come to pretty much everything that we've done. And she just had this idea to, like, bring us along to cook up the house. And we did. And after we did that, that sort of just snowballed into her just doing that, I think as a monthly thing. So we were the first ones there and to commemorate their year anniversary of doing that we're going to be doing the year anniversary at our house. Yeah, and

how many people can come to that?

I don't know. I think The first one that when we did it, it was very, like, sort of like glued together. Yeah. And I think we had about 12 people. Yeah,

that's what I've done with my pop ups. I still like that. I did like a curated dinner party where it's just like 15 people where it's controlled and you can have like a really good time.

Yeah. And then from there, like, I mean, she's had everyone there. I think like, Erik Bruner Yang was just there. Aaron Silverman was just there. I don't know, like, a ton of people. I think Johnny Sperro was there. Like, there's like, all these chefs from around the city. All of a sudden are cooking. I don't remember this.

Yeah. The other day. I think it was like you and three others. She announced what the next couple ones were I thought, Wow, that's pretty cool.

Yeah, yeah. And it's, it's really great. She's basically selling the tickets to the people that come and all the money's going to the teams. Were coming into putting on the show which is a great event. It Not only brings business to the to the restaurants in the chef's but it supports you know what everyone what she believes in. She's very much in the restaurant scene, she does a really good job at being present and supporting everyone.

Awesome. Do you have anything else you really want to talk about before we finish up this like middle end and head on to the speed round. Now

this was great. I think we got it. We got it all out. Cool. Well, we'd

like to finish with a quick we call it the on the fly. So if you're ready, it doesn't have to be super quick. But here's some questions. So what's your favorite tool in the kitchen?

Favorite tool in the kitchen? sharp knife. What's your favorite food to eat? Favorite food to eat? Rice and beans and tortillas.

Okay, if you had all the money, what is the first position you would hire? Like right now if you could hire anyone? What position would that be?

Ah, if I could hire anyone that I just haven't hired would be my to shop because I already know who it is.

need to get some money? Yeah. Do you have a favorite chef?

Ah, I mean, that's sort of like a contextual thing like locally. Yeah. Either

either like someone who you're interested in what they're doing or someone you've worked for,

I think someone that I admire a lot on, big on. I mean, obviously Jose (Andres), who was, you know, my chef that also is hyper inspiring and more aspects than just the kitchen with all the humanitarian and activist stuff that he does. Gabriela Kamata, who does Contramar and Kala in San Francisco who's done an incredible job of sort of like, gone from being like a home cook to like running this super, super successful restaurant group. And, yeah, I mean, I have like my, my local heroes that I look up to and I'm very excited to know and work next to and provide a lot of inspiration and support, like Andrew markered You got to learn something from that same Yeah, those I mean those that's like my my core group of people teamster extra bucks sits right next door to where we're at right now. Yeah, I mean, there's there's there's a long list because it lists them but DC has a an incredible network of people that really look out for each other. We're lucky to be here.

Great. Art or Science? Art. Is there anything you do differently from everyone else? Everything?

Yeah, I mean, it's it's funny going into kitchens and, you know, doing things the way that I do them. And there's always sort of like, either the young cooks are looking at me doing things different than how chef was doing them and going like what? Or chef walking by going like, the hell are you doing? That's not how we do it. So yeah, I think everyone everyone sort of develops their own style and unique in the way they do things but there's you know, more more than one way to skin a cat and yeah, I mean there's there's a million things I do differently, I suppose.

Do you have a favorite coloring resource? Whether it be cookbook website magazine, like what do you think you really turn to for inspiration?

Um well I used to really like the Lucky Peach magazines before they shut down. But yeah, I mean, for me, most of my most of my inspiration comes from cookbooks my cookbook collection gross. which shouldn't it's a bad problem. Same here, but yeah, I mean, for me, it's I just I look at the chef's that that I really enjoy and that I find interesting and exciting, and what they're doing and I look at their restaurants and first I start with looking at their menus and see what they're doing and then I look to see if they have a cookbook and reach out for it. And then read it not just by it but like read it really, really read it like a like you were reading a novel from cover to cover,

it's interesting. So many of them are like that. Now, it used to be just this kind of here's a recipe is the recipe. And then I was like, here's a recipe and some pictures. And now it's reading the books. I have a lot of those that I like, I love the relay cookbook, you know, and it's like, I don't think I've ever even made anything out there. But just like reading a thing on like water and being thoughtful about, you know, what's your water tastes like is our water filter. Everything you make is made with water, you know, and just kind of reading that kind of stuff in a book, and then not even making anything from it's not a lot of those. I think a man writes a book is kind of like that. I've read it a lot, but haven't made anything from it.

Yeah, I mean, it's continuing education, right? Yes. I mean, it's some of the best learning that I've done, aside from being on the job has come from reading,

especially not working alone, essentially, you know, that's the boat I'm in, where I'm not going in a kitchen every day and having that synergy and working with people and seeing what they're doing and trying their stuff. So it's like how do you kind of find that inspiration when you're working by yourself?

Yeah, well For me, I know what what helps a lot is, you know reaching out to my restaurant network. Whether it is because I'm coming in to fill in when they need help or just reaching out and saying how when it comes to bed and do with you, but starving man is still a very much real thing and something that I think people appreciate if you're able to come in and help out. Every time you leave after spending, you know, eight hours with a with a kitchen team, you leave with something now, every time

and I guess last What do you want to be remembered for? That's, we put this in the on the fly without ethics on the fly, but we always kind of like end on that note, is there anything you personally as a chef, want to be remembered for?

I think broadening the expectation and the knowledge base for the public of what Mexican food is and also for being able to Help out the Latin American immigrant communities in our in our area that make up the large majority of kitchens in mindful and meaningful ways beyond just giving them jobs but really helping build them up into places where their their livelihoods and their and their economies are sustainable. for them.

It's a good answer. So where can people find you? on the internet? How can people connect with you follow your progress on the restaurant and everything.

Where our well our website is sort of a work in progress. But most of the news come out as as we get them on our Instagram for Amparo, it's @AmparoFondita, Amparo Fondita or my personal Instagram account, which is Pinche Cocinero. @pinchecocinero.

And I always put links in the show notes. So people be able to find that, click on a hyperlink. Awesome. All right. Well, thanks so much. And I look forward to following the progress. And as always, this is Chris with Chefs Without Restaurants and we will see you next week. Thanks for being on the show. Thanks for having me. Transcribed by https://otter.ai