Mike Lang - Food Photography for Weber Grills

Chris Spear: 0:00

Well, welcome to the Chefs Without Restaurants podcast. I'm your host Chris Spear. On the show. I have conversations with culinary entrepreneurs and people in the food and beverage industry who took a different route. Their caterers, research chefs, personal chefs cookbook authors, food truckers, farmers, cottage bakers and all sorts of culinary renegades. I myself fall into the personal chef category as I started my own personal chef business perfect little bites 10 years ago. And while I started working in kitchens in the early 90s, I've literally never worked in a restaurant. This week. I have Mike Lang. Mike is not a chef, but he started a food blog called Another Pint Please. And while the name sounds like it would be focused on beer, it's primarily focused on grilling. An amateur photographer Mike started shooting the food he was cooking on his Weber grill. His photos caught the attention of Weber's marketing team and this eventually led to Mike doing photography for Weber. Besides their website and social media, his photos have been published in Smithsonian, BuzzFeed and even in Sports Illustrated. Mike just released his first cookbook last week titled one beer grilling. You can purchase it through his website and the link is in the show notes. On the show we discussed why he started the blog and how we connected with Weber. We talk grilling and beer and he gives us some of his favorite resources. A reminder that you can help support our podcast and the Chefs Without Restaurants network by donating through our Patreon. I know this probably sounds like a feed the children campaign but for as little as 17 cents a day you can help keep the thing running. Monthly support starts at just $5 a month. Go to patreon.com forward slash Chefs Without Restaurants to find exclusive recipes and see our tiered rewards. Again, the link is in the show notes. And thank you once again to this week's sponsor all of in basket with more than 30 each oils and vinegars all of in basket is my go to for specialty food items. They also have seasoning blends sauces, jams, pasta, honeys, chocolate, gift baskets, and so much more. Just the other day I picked up a bottle of their champagne vinegar and some gourmet popcorn for the kids. Sharon and Cindy do a great job curating a wide selection of items that are loved by both professional chefs and home cooks. Located in Frederick, Maryland, their shop is at 5231 by keys town Pike, but you can also order all their products online and have them shipped directly to your house. Go to Olive and basket calm. And now on with the show. Thanks so much for listening and have a great week. Hey, Mike, welcome to the show. Thanks so much for coming on.

Mike Lang: 3:39

Oh, thanks for having me. I truly appreciate it.

Chris Spear: 3:41

I'm really excited to talk to you. I love grilling, and I'm kind of my I'm kind of a photo nerd myself. So looking forward to talking to you and finding out a little bit about food photography,

Mike Lang: 3:52

we will definitely have a lot in common.

Chris Spear: 3:55

So why don't we just jump right into it. I like to kind of start with a little bit about your backstory. So you're not a chef, like a professional chef. But you did or do have a food blog now focusing on grilling, and you do the photography for Weber. So I guess how did that start? Why a food blog and kind of bring me up to speed how do we get to where we are now?

Mike Lang: 4:17

Well, it's kind of crazy. I started my blog. It's been keep losing track of time, but probably 15 years ago. And at the time, that's when blogs were kind of coming into their own, you know, mid 2000s and I had a love of photography and I'd like to write and originally the travel blog, so did a lot of traveling and talked about stuff. And then one night A friend of mine had a posted a picture on his blog, and then said what's on the grill. It was basically a picture of his dinner and like, you know, I love to grill and I love photography. And now perhaps I can put these two things together and make something out of it. And that's literally how it started. You know, never trained as a chef solidly at home cook I love to grill you know, food's been a part of my life in terms of preparation and creating forever. It seems And as the blog started off and running as a total and complete side hustle,

Chris Spear: 5:05

and it's called another pipe, please. Is that right?

Unknown: 5:08

Yes, poor branding for anything about grilled food and food photography. It was about a trip to England I took and that was one of the top titles of things I'd be uttering the most while overseas would be another point, please. And it's this kind of stuck. So in a way, it doesn't really reflect what I do. But in a way, there's no doubt about who it is. And that's me.

Chris Spear: 5:27

Did you ever think about changing that or rebranding? Or do you hit that point where like, the ship has sailed? And you just got to go with it?

Unknown: 5:34

No, I totally did think about it. And nothing came to mind that I was afraid of course, if you have a little bit of momentum to change things up. I like now I'm just gonna own it. And here we are.

Chris Spear: 5:44

Yeah, I mean, similarly, I have a personal chef business called perfect little bites. And it started with, you know, my wife and I would go to restaurants and we'd each get different dishes. And we'd say like, oh, let's trade a perfect little bite. And you'd get like every component on a fork and kind of switch it. And I always like offhandedly said, If I ever have a business, that's what I'll call it, not thinking that that was really going to happen. And about the same time is when I started blogging, as you did about 15 years ago. And I had that before I had my own personal chef business. I mean, I was working in food service, but the website started as perfect little bites calm, and it was primarily a food blog. And then I felt like I was kind of like locked into it. I started doing like private chef dinners under that name. And now it's like, I don't know if that would be the best name for my business. But it's been like 15 years of branding under that name. And I feel like I just I'm locked in at this point. But you know, I love it. And I've grown into it.

Unknown: 6:35

Yeah, no, I like the sound of it. And I totally get what you mean is like, once that ship sails can like, man, the change course is gonna be a lot. So let's just kind of go with it. And I kind of like it now.

Chris Spear: 6:45

So do you have a background in photography?

Unknown: 6:47

No, you know, it's interesting. I've always none of this is even remotely near my career. But I've always had an interest in the visual arts you know, I was the young kid that was new actually would appreciate this. That would take my Star Wars toys, put them in the sandbox, use my dad's eight millimeter camera and try and make stop motion videos with them. That is amazing. I just have always had that love, you know, stringing two VCRs together to haphazardly edit video for school projects grown up outside of DC when I was a teenager and just kind of naturally progressed we're finally I've got a true focus for it and be able to, you know, grow with it and learn more and try to push myself every day.

Chris Spear: 7:24

So have you ever worked in a restaurant like even fast food as a kid?

Unknown: 7:28

I spent three months before going to college working at a as a grill cook at a Ice Cream Sandwich place called friendlies here in southwest Ohio. That was the extent of

Chris Spear: 7:37

friendlies like the the chain like

Unknown: 7:39

yeah, the ice cream chain. Yeah,

Chris Spear: 7:41

yeah, I grew up with friendlies like a mile from my house. So yeah, I think they might have even started in Massachusetts, where I'm from, I don't know, but I used to love them. And they had those giant like Reese's Pieces sundaes that were enough for like three people, but because I was a little fat kid, I could eat it all myself.

Unknown: 7:56

I may have had a few of those back in the day or in the shift reward perhaps.

Chris Spear: 8:00

So you aren't a chef and you weren't a photographer. So now you're doing photography and you're shooting for Webber? Can you kind of like how did that happen?

Unknown: 8:12

Yeah, fate. I they redesigned the summit gas grill back in 2006 or seven, I think. And I'm like, you know what, I'm ready for new gas grill. I've had a Weber since the mid 90s. Starting off the kettle underperformer and the grill came the sewage box. And I jumped up on top of that and had a picture taken and posted on the blog. And their ad agency at a Denver happened to find it and reached out and one that they could purchase the photo. I'm like, like you could actually get paid money for this kind of thing. I was like, Wow. So I said sure. And they use that that sort of started and awareness as far as what I was doing. And they were aware of my blog. And you know, that time, guys was probably Twitter days pre Instagram, even. I was on flicker predominantly posted a lot of pictures to flicker and still do. And then about nine or eight or nine years ago, they reached out wanting me to be in a video testimonial commercial. And I said I said Yeah, that'd be fantastic. So I figured maybe one or two people showing up at the house of the camera and do a little one on one and talk like we are right now, not realizing this is a legit production with a crew of 25 people taking over the house in a 12 hour day. And it was all it was an incredibly exciting, and I'd love the experience. And that went over so well. I then transitioned at Weber to writing further a brand new blog. And then of course taking photographs posted to social. And that segue then further into doing grill styling and grill work for commercial shoots for broadcast or print media. So it's been kind of a whirlwind of times for me for not actually working for the company but simply being a freelancer. And all this by the way by being a police sergeant with 25 years in the job getting ready to hopefully retire here pretty soon so it's it's been crazy fun. I love it.

Chris Spear: 9:58

That's a nice side hustle.

Unknown: 10:00

It's really easy. I've done a lot of local media and stuff for things. And it's never surprised me at work, I'll be out at a scene someplace and somebody will drive by and say something, you know, hey, love those girl bananas and keep on driving when Obviously, I'm, you know, I'm managing a crash scene or some other, you know, work incident. But yeah, it's it for some people for a while, but now everyone's kind of used to it.

Chris Spear: 10:23

Well, that's really early on for doing that. And now it seems like everyone wants to work with brands. But you know, I don't know, I've never heard of any stories like that where someone reached out to someone after like, one photo or something. Now, it seems like you have to grind it out and post 20 or 40 photos on Instagram and tag the business and they still might not even reach out to you is, I don't know, is the market oversaturated in that aspect? Like, are there more people who want to make content than there are businesses who need it?

Unknown: 10:49

I think in some way, yeah. I mean, you see it, and at times, I'm even guilty of it myself. You're constantly tagging and someone that makes a certain product or does something you know, on the meat side. It's a way of constantly hustling and granted, my first experience with Weber was pre Facebook, pre social media, as we kind of know it today. It was a totally different landscape, but they hadn't even really embraced yet.

Chris Spear: 11:12

Yeah, just yesterday, I posted a photo because I got a free unicorn party kit from a company. And I did an Instagram post about it. And in the comments, I was having a conversation with someone and I said, Well, I'm a chef, and I'd much rather have a relationship with at Vitamix at KitchenAid, etc. And actually, then Vitamix like mentioned me and was like, Hey, can you send your media kit over to us? We'd love to talk to you. I was like, Yes, that's how it's done. Right? You know, there you go. I was like, I guess I should have reached out earlier and not just kind of like sub tweeted them in the comments of my Instagram. But it's still work. That's great. Yeah, yeah. So let me just get this out of the way Nikon or Canon,

Unknown: 11:55

canon.

Chris Spear: 11:57

I'm an I'm a Nikon guy. But I did I did buy my daughter, who's almost nine a Canon for Christmas. She wanted a new camera and they had a really great one, you know, and actually, it takes amazing photos. So I bought her like a $300 camera for Christmas. Mostly because you know, I love how you know it's small. It's a you know, a point and shoot not a DSLR like mine, but it takes better photos than my iPhone does. So she's now our vacation photographer.

Unknown: 12:25

But she loves that.

Chris Spear: 12:26

Yeah, yeah, you know, I love photography and being able to pass that along. My son's not really interested. But she goes and she does tons of photos like every day and does a lot of editing. She actually shot my headshot. So anyone who's seen my like most recent headshot, I helped her set it up. I mean, I put lights out in my kitchen and everything but game camera and got her all set up and she shot it and then I paid her 20 bucks and said, you know like, here's here's a start to your photography career.

Unknown: 12:51

Just make sure she does a long hard think of what she's going to call it because when she gets 10 years down the road, she's gonna want to change it and be stuck with it like we are.

Chris Spear: 12:58

Yeah, absolutely. So why Webber? Like, I mean, I know you said you've had him for a while Do you? Have you diversified and use other grills or now because you work with them? It's like an exclusive deal.

Unknown: 13:10

No, I'm exclusive with whoever. Absolutely. by choice and by contract. Obviously. I have used other girls in the past before Absolutely. And but levers, one brand i've i've had from the beginning and had other ones I tried out and like or didn't like but whatever. To me. It's the most iconic brand. And the fact that you know, we talked about it here in the states in terms of whether it's a worldwide phenomenon. I mean, it's really amazing. I see my feed the new sales offices that pop up all over the world. I've got friends in New Zealand and Australia. I mean, and the Weber culture down there is just unbelievable. I call my one buddy, my southern hemisphere doppelganger. He basically does what I do. He loves to shoot photography. Brilliant at it. Fantastic. griller. But he's, you know, right now getting ready to roll in a winner and we're getting ready to roll into summer.

Chris Spear: 13:56

Yeah, that's great. So you can kind of like go back and forth. I mean, I'm a griller in the winter, but obviously, you know, it's a lot easier and more convenient in warm weather.

Unknown: 14:06

Yeah, it's Yeah, we always say you know, we're 365 grillers, but it's a lot more fun when it's 70 degrees outside versus seven. But I still do it.

Chris Spear: 14:14

Yeah, Papa beer and stand outside. I don't mind just hanging out in the winter. It's like I go outside, do I need to flip my meat go back inside, shut the door, go check on it in 15 minutes. Now I say to my wife, like, I'll be in in 45 minutes and just hang outside with a drink.

Unknown: 14:27

So that's the only way to do it. Absolutely.

Chris Spear: 14:29

So where do you find cooking inspiration? Like when you're creating something new? Where are you drawing that from?

Unknown: 14:36

Yeah, that's an excellent question. Um, a lot of times things will hit me when I'm out. actually eating at restaurants or places, but it was kind of crazy last year if the world being shut down, but I'll see something that's not necessarily meant for the grill. And I'll think okay, well, how can I grill that? or How can I do something similar to that, but actually incorporate the grill in it. And more often than not, that's where things sort of come from. I think that and also to simply embracing you know, It's called the bread and butter stuff, the basic stuff know how to grill a really good steak, you know, know how to smoke a really good rack of ribs, I'm always be the person trying to be out there with the most insane concoction to have a viral video really perfect, what is the most essential things we should be doing? And I think to me, that's probably one of the most rewarding things.

Chris Spear: 15:18

Well, that's what all the young people want to do today. And I think even the viral videos reward that, you know, when I was working in kitchens, where I had employees, you know, it's like, cooks want to come in and do all this stuff, whether it be molecular gastronomy or some crazy thing, but like, if you ask them to cook a steak medium rare, they couldn't hit it, you know, it's like, Yeah, what, what happened to the very basics of like, getting a really nice cooked steak or roasting a chicken properly. And I find that a lot of that techniques have gone by the wayside, because people just want to create some crazy thing that everyone's talking about.

Unknown: 15:50

No, I completely agree. I mean, I would rather see a lot of people roast a whole chicken on a Sunday, and use that and be really good at it and perfect it versus trying to have the chicken, you know, strike a fancy pose or, or hanging off the side of the grill while it's being basted. You know, keep the simple stuff going in that way that inspire you to take those things to another level. And then when you do you build such a solid foundation, it's gonna be incredible, whatever it is.

Chris Spear: 16:13

So you've got a new cookbook, I'd love to hear about that a little bit. How did that come about? Did you always well, not always, maybe always? Did you always want to write a cookbook? Or in recent years? Have you wanted to write a cookbook?

Unknown: 16:26

You know, it's always been, I've always said, the list of things I want to do is much greater than a list of things I don't want to do. And I've always felt that I had a book somewhere in me, I think, but never really had the right outlet for it. And I've been approached before by other different publishing houses about doing something. And finally, this the most recent pitch that came in, of course, it's about beer and grilling. So I'm like, already, you know, three quarters interest in and I was like, You know what? Sure, why not? Let's do it. It scares the hell out of me, I'm still nervous about it, I still want to be, you know, a total utter embarrassment. But I feel pretty good about it. It's just a simple collection of, you know, recipes that you could quote, unquote, you know, have one beer while preparing not entirely true all the way through the book. There's a smoke sending rib roast in there, and some barbecue recipes. But it's just, you know, I think well photographed recipes that you might be hungry one day, you pull out the book, you decide what beer you're gonna drink, you're gonna grill this and hopefully enjoy yourself.

Chris Spear: 17:24

So did you do all the photography for your book?

Unknown: 17:27

I did. Yes. That was the one thing I had to done. Which other which was one of the offers I had was an issue. They didn't want that. I'm like, well, there's no, no way. I'm gonna do this, then.

Chris Spear: 17:37

Yeah, cuz that's very rare. I mean, most chefs, you know, write their cookbook, or have it somewhat ghost written by someone and then have to bring in a professional photographer. So to be able to shoot your own book. That's pretty cool.

Unknown: 17:49

Yeah, no, I was just, I, you know, that's you can relate to that. I love the visual imagery. I look back, in fact, ever when I got into Stephen Franklin's barbecue Bible, which came out back in the mid 90s, I think, and what I love that book, but there's no pictures in it. And obviously, you know, photographs, make a book much more expensive to produce. But still, I was like, man, I still inspire What's here? Well, now, I mean, I have to have photographs, because that's true. I can read something, but man to see it that pop off the pages that inspires me. And I kind of want to put that same inspiration in someone else, flipping through the pages or looking at it on a bookshelf. And that's it. Yeah, it speaks to me. I love it.

Chris Spear: 18:28

But with so many cookbooks out there, did we need another cookbook? Like how does this stand apart from other books out there? Or does it? Like did we need another grilling cookbook?

Unknown: 18:41

The short answer is probably no. Hello, you know, I'm not under the illusion. This is some great literary work of art or some potential award winner. No. But I'm fine with that. I think it's something fun for the average griller to go grab, and maybe, you know, see something that they've not made before, or perhaps a way to make something different. And to be inspired to do that. And of course, it's also filled with all my little anecdotal stories, but all the recipes and things and I, a lot of stuff has funny beginnings as far as my first love of food and my parents and how my mom hated a cook. And my dad was too busy to cook, and how that shaped me today. So it's been amazing, you know, and I'm using read through, I think, but yeah, do we need it now? But there it is.

Chris Spear: 19:24

And now that we mentioned, it's called one beer grilling?

Unknown: 19:27

Yes. Wonder grilling.

Chris Spear: 19:29

So I know that it's a new project for you. But have you already thought about another one? Are you going to wait and see how the reception is on this? Or do you have already have a second book in you?

Unknown: 19:38

Yeah, you know, number one never say never. So? I think most definitely if the situation was right, and I felt inspired, I would definitely do it again. I made it made it through one. But you know, it's wait and see. It was it was the right moment at the right time. I mean, not even COVID aside, it wasn't like I had a bunch of free time sitting around. I was actually more busy this year than I ever would have imagined, which is a wonderful thing to be. But yeah, well Wait, wait and sing?

Chris Spear: 20:01

And how did you learn how to do photography specifically like food styling? Because that's a thing onto its own. And I think it's pretty hard. Like, are you self taught completely with all the photography?

Unknown: 20:13

Yeah, I am. It's nice with the advent of YouTube in the last, you know, eight or nine years to truly if you can't figure something out to get online and dissect it, whether that's on the steel side, or the video side, which I also still love to do. But yeah, it's always been self taught, I think somewhere in my mind, obviously, imagery, I can understand composition, and light to some point, but a lot has been trial and error. You know, when you post something, and I agree, I get a flicker a lot of credit for it. And it's always sad to kind of see its demise because it was a true sharing arena, especially for whatever interest food landscape portraiture. And I wouldn't a lot simply from people there and what they were doing, but it's a lot of trial and error to and on the styling things, you know, as well, I was lucky at Weber when I first started doing shoots to learn from some stylists, and still to this day, and now more of a managing role on those shoots with other professional stylists to do it 24 seven, as far as what they do, and that's a constant, it's that's hard to there's a lot of different styles. And it's it's a lot to take under.

Chris Spear: 21:17

I think that's the hardest part of what I do, because I try and you know, create content for my businesses. And I'll make a really great dish, but then it's like this dish on this surface and the whole, you know, like, do I need to have a napkin folded a certain way? And like, what's the right silverware? And does there need to be some flowers in the background that are like, out of focus lately, like that is a whole nother thing, besides just shooting your dish of food? And I think that's something I've trouble with. I've read a lot about it, but I still am not where I want to be. And you know, it's a work in progress for me.

Unknown: 21:50

I would agree totally. My favorite thing is to grill out there's a pretty where I read it, discussing different types of food photographers, and one of the descriptions was the National Geographic food photographer. And I was like, that's me, you know, like the NGO photographer trying to capture the the lion on the Serengeti and crawling through the weeds. Yeah, that's me grabbing the camera, grabbing the tripod and hitting the grill when you know, the steak goes down, and the fat hits the coals and you get all that sizzle up and flame. That's why I love to capture. It's great to capture plated food too, but it's not as alive as something on the grill. And I just love those living shots where things are happening. And foods cooking and you're there to capture

Chris Spear: 22:29

is all your food that you photograph ready to eat? Or do you have to do any weird like photo tricks to make it better for the camera?

Unknown: 22:38

It is all real. And that's probably the cool thing too. And also I credit Weber from the very beginning is that when we would do shoots, I remember we were out in LA doing a shoot for maybe I forget what even grill it was. And the very the hero shot was as beautiful table laid out with an overhead shot of the camera coming up in the food coming out. And remember we grilled a couple huge big beef tenderloins in a church parking lot. 15 minutes away and all the other sides. But this cook spot on brought it over. And of course the the talent is always concerned like, Can we really eat this? And we're like, yeah, it's everything's edible to enjoy it. And after the shots, we're finally on the can. Everything wrapped in the shoot was over there also sitting on the table eating and having fun. And that, to me was one of the most amazing moments to realize all that hard work. That's how real it is that they can truly enjoy it.

Chris Spear: 23:29

Yeah, I mean, there's a whole bunch of books on food styling, where you're not using like real food to make it but that's not what I want to do. But I do realize there's some challenges and you have to work so fast. I mean, grilling is maybe a little easier than like a plated composed dish, like I'm always thinking about, like, once I put x on the plate, I've got like 30 seconds to nail this shot. And that's so tough. Like, I was in the king's Hawaiian roll sandwich competition photo competition, I had the summer, and they sent me a case of like 90 rolls, which was amazing. But I kept making all these sandwiches and you're like once I put you know, like the kaiso on there, like you've got literally like 15 seconds to like nail this shot and, and just like that's so stressful for me like trying to figure out how to just get everything on the plate and take a shot in under a minute before it goes all over the plate. It just looks like a hot mess.

Unknown: 24:20

That is so true. And you know, back in the day for me that dinner was shooting that was dinner. So I mean, you got to feed the blog first, as they said, and today thankfully, it's not that way I'm able to shoot and do it. But yeah, the time that stuff just writes it looks good. It's still glistens. It's not dying on the plate so to speak. That's it can be a challenge

Chris Spear: 24:38

when I think the photos and the content are two separate things. Because what I've noticed is like I used to, I mean, I don't blog as much as I used to. But I didn't always have great photos. It was the idea. It was the recipe and that's what brought people and then I think you can kind of overthink it and spend more time saying like, Oh, I don't want to publish this because the photo isn't the best. But when I look back at some of the best opportunities I've had, it was Because of an amazing photo not to discredit photography, but like, I made some crazy cocktail and post it on my blog, and it got seen by someone at garden and gun magazine, and then they wanted to run it in their magazine. And it wasn't this like, stylized shoot was like me and my best friend hanging out in the backyard, making a cocktail. And you know, it found its way into a magazine. And sometimes when I do these shoots that take me like a long time, it doesn't do anything, you know. So I think sometimes you can really get in your head too much and overthink it when you're creating content.

Unknown: 25:31

Is that crazy? How the thing that you least expect to be successful ends up being successful?

Chris Spear: 25:35

Yeah, I think my worst photo ever taken on a crappy phone was one of my most popular things that again added ended up in a publication I did these ice cubes out of pot liquor. Do you know what pot liquor is? No, it's like when like when you cook a pot of greens like collard greens with like, everything in them the leftover liquid in there. So you've got like this stock and it needs like bacon and onions and vinegar and everything. I took it and I froze it I made ice cubes. And I wanted to make a martini and I just started the martini on the ice cubes. And it was just this like off the cuff thing that I did after work at like midnight, and I just like posted on Twitter, but john t edge who was at the time writing for Oxford American magazines, like that's amazing. And I'm doing a write up right now on potluck. Or can I include you in the article and it was like literally just this crappy photo of like these ice cubes, like yellowed photo from, you know, the lights in my kitchen. But it was the idea. And I think I want to get back to doing more like blogging and just like off the cuff like not worrying about SEO not worrying about like the perfect photoshopped photo shoot, and just getting it out there.

Unknown: 26:41

Well, it's interesting because in light of current affairs with technology and everything, I've been reading some things people are kind of going back to their blog, because they're in control of it, they can choose what they want to post about and do and I think there there may be a resurgence of that sort of thing.

Chris Spear: 26:56

Do you have any favorite resources? I usually ask culinary resources, but it can be culinary. It can be photographic, like what do you go to or their websites or their YouTube channels or their you know, cookbooks that you love?

Unknown: 27:11

There are I'm trying to think let's see on the more often than not, I'm going to YouTube for content. And there's the guy. I'm gonna butcher names here. Scott churro out of London is a London based food photographer. His channel is excellent just you know it very relatable and forthright and I find his stuff quite enjoyable. on video side, I go to geralyn Dunn's channel quite a bit. He does mostly video work, but a lot of technical expertise. A lot of even that goes of my head at times, I'm like, wow. And just just had a book came out or names escape me, Joanie bite shot, she's got a wonderful channel, I've watched growth of the years to just put a book out on food photography, it's probably the big ones that I mostly go to outside of that I'll Google something specific that I'm looking for. And I think from a technical aspect, just simply gratifying with the latest books are and I've got a handful of books on photography and food styling, which like you said to I can read stuff, but unless I'm actually doing it or applying what I'm reading, it may not always connect the way I want it to. But we're blessed to live in such an age where all that information is literally on your phones. If you've got a question, I had to do something I guarantee someone else has before to just Google it, you'll probably find your answer.

Chris Spear: 28:27

I'm so appreciative of the people who make YouTube videos on every single thing like we had a seatbelt in our minivan that we could not figure out how to disconnect and I literally just googled like Toyota Sienna, third row seat belt removal and of course there was a video so these people who make these videos on everything from photography to SEO to you know, whatever cooking a ribeye, I love it. YouTube is just amazing.

Unknown: 28:53

No, I just learned how to automatically defrost my icemaker last week thanks to a user video and it was no high production value was a guy on the phone saying this is how you do it. Hold these buttons down until it beeps I'm like Problem solved.

Chris Spear: 29:05

Is there anyone you'd really like to shadow like if you could work with someone for the day whether it be just learning how to cook or following a photographer? Is there anyone you're really impressed with and would love to hang out with and learn from?

Unknown: 29:16

I think definitely Scott in London I mean he it's funny his stuff is a lot it's a studio work. But he uses a lot of harder lights it seems but the way he captures stuff especially budget drink stuff lately it's I find it so interesting. And I think he comes at a too from a thought was having the best kit to capture something as we can relate to it's just it's like how you compose it and how you capture it and light it and set it up. I think would be quite interesting to see someone of that caliber his workflow and how they approach projects and do things like that. Absolutely.

Chris Spear: 29:49

Are you looking to continue doing this with other brands or are you going to be the Webber guy for a while Have you reached out to anyone or thought about then shooting some other kind of food type stuff?

Unknown: 30:00

No, I mean I'm dedicated a Weber true and true, you know, I could potentially retire this year so what my future will look like I'm not really quite sure yet I know it's gonna involve, you know, photography and grilling, but it's kind of take it a day at a time and I love creating content I love seeing it, you know, literally any place in the world, representing Weber and I feel I've got a lot more to grow and to learn and to do but until then I'm quite content or am right now.

Chris Spear: 30:28

What about like, I don't know, I don't want to say is photography dead, but I hate that a site like Instagram seems to be pushing video like everyone's pushing video. I personally don't love shooting video myself. But now you know, you see Instagram trying to stay on top of tik tok and now they're pushing reels or, and before that it was igtv. And it seems like if you post a photo, it doesn't get as much traction as if you make this video, but I'm not comfortable with it. I don't love video, and I hate to see it going away. Do you have any thoughts on that? Have you looked into you know, the algorithms and how they work and all that kind of stuff?

Unknown: 31:01

Yeah, I mean, there's no doubt that they're, they're favoring video creation, whether it be through reels with your HGTV, as you know, taking on tik tok or YouTube. I've always enjoyed video. And in fact, I've just created a series of reels for Weber over the last, I don't know, eight or nine months, which you know, short form 32nd things are so Poppy and creative. I, on a personal level, have been wanting to do more longer form, like YouTube videos. It's I enjoy them. I enjoy that aspect of it. But it takes a lot more work. And just as I get something done, if I want to come back and make another one, I've got projects lined up, which is a good problem to have. I can't really get back to it. So I think you're right, I think at some point to photography, much like it left flicker back in the day, and there's another one I can't remember, it'll probably find a new home somewhere else that will be still an organic, and then that cycle will repeat itself.

Chris Spear: 31:54

Yeah, most definitely. I mean, everyone always did still photography. And then I remember like in the late 80s, early 90s like my dad got a video camera and we took that everywhere and all we did was shoot you know video on the VHS and then that kind of died off and never went back to photos and then with the advent of like the digital video cameras everyone got those and then we kind of went back to photos and just kind of watching it ebb and flow i don't i don't know what the next big thing is. For me it's just hard because I think editing still photos is so much easier than editing video. Oh,

Unknown: 32:25

yeah, completely. It's scary to realize how much you know video editing capabilities of phones God I use an app called in shot on my phone for doing his real work. And it is a seriously heavy duty editor. I mean, I'm impressed with what it can do. Which I think is why in a way you see so much of it because I put those what used to be probably high end tools and as a small form factor. But yeah, when it comes to editing video versus stills I mean stills especially if we're talking about stills that are in the same sort of you know, scene or setup and you're simply gonna apply some mass corrections to everything and go back through and tweak to see what you like. Yeah, definitely easier.

Chris Spear: 33:00

Also use in shot good to know that you use it. For me the the big thing is that my kids have been home for 16 months like I can shoot a photo of a dish while they're in the background making a ton of noise. But it seems like every time I break out all the lights and the gear and I'm going to try and shoot a video you just hear Dad Dad or some other nonsense. It's like I'm not even going to go back to trying to do videos until they go back to school because it just has not been working out for me.

Unknown: 33:24

Now I feel your pain. I've got neighbors the new dog that likes to bark outside getting ready to shoot video or the trash truck or lawn mowers it's it's a cavalcade of sound pollution level issues video. And if I don't stay quiet, well, I'm

Chris Spear: 33:37

sure it's kind of like picking a favorite child. But do you have a favorite thing to grill or a couple favorite things to grill?

Unknown: 33:43

You know, I always say now my favorite thing to grill is a bone in ribeye. Whenever I've got a new grill, that's the first maiden cook that I always always put on it. And it's one of those things where I mean nine out of 10 times I'm super happy with it. But I always feel there's you know, to get it exactly perfect. Exactly right is something I'm always chasing to do. So that's probably my one simple favorite thing to always grow that don't hold chicken. As I mentioned before, I love to grill whole chicken.

Chris Spear: 34:10

So how do you do your chicken,

Unknown: 34:12

I nine out of 10 times I'm simply going to cut off the wing tips, trust it, and then I'm going to grill it indirect. And then I will usually drop in one small wood chunk like apple or cherry for a little bit of smoky flavor but more because it really gets the color taken up a notch you get that nice sort of mahogany was done. It's not smoked, per se it's more or less sort of adding a little bit of flair to the final product.

Chris Spear: 34:37

I don't know that I've ever grilled a whole chicken before.

Unknown: 34:41

Oh my gosh, yeah, it's I mean, I'll make it either for chicken but more often than not. I use it for chicken salad or chicken for the week for stuffing in case ideas or tacos for something last minute. But oh yeah, yeah, I love the grilled chicken.

Chris Spear: 34:54

Well, and you're also a beer guy aren't Yeah,

Unknown: 34:56

I am.

Chris Spear: 34:57

I guess you're another pipe. Please. If I was inviting you over for dinner, what would you bring? Like if you didn't know what I was cooking? I just said, you know, bring some beer bring a six pack, like, What's something you'd bring?

Unknown: 35:07

I would, I'd have to bring an IPA because these days of course, they are so prevalent, which is amazing. But I would probably bring you as lately, something hazy and maybe an imperial hazy. But then on the other end of the spectrum, I would probably bring a porter or maybe a brown ale, but something not obviously nowhere near as hoppy but just as flavorful.

Chris Spear: 35:28

Do you have a favorite brown ale? Because I find like in general, not a lot of people necessarily drink them. Like, I don't think I have any friends who drink brown ales, what's one of your favorites? Lately,

Unknown: 35:37

I had a really good brown ale from a local brewery here in the Cincinnati Dayton area from sonder. It's called coconut tears. And it was a brown ale with coconut that was quite good.

Chris Spear: 35:47

Yeah, I love I love all styles of beers. My wife doesn't do IPA. So we don't have as many of them around. But every one of my friends loves an IPA. And she drinks the hazy IPAs. So that's kind of like our meeting in the middle point, I guess. It's funny, I

Unknown: 36:02

have my last hopslam. From bells, it comes out seasonally. And this last week has kind of shed a tear. And it's beers like that, that, you know, gosh, probably eight or nine years ago, not knowing it's a 10%. Imperial IPA, you have three of them realize rules kind of move in here, what's going on. And now of course, ATVs are readily published, you know, what you're getting into, you know, the potency of things. But it's, they've been an amazing ride. I almost feel like I need to kind of go back and embrace loggers more, because I basically pass them up all the time. And then I have one I'm like, that's actually really quite good. You too sucked into I think the things that you know, you're like, but try things you think you might not like, and you realize you probably do.

Chris Spear: 36:43

And now I find that I'm totally overwhelmed when I go to the store, like I just walk in and there's like 4000 different beers, it's like to pick something I've never had, I pick something I know I like and I just stand in the aisle. And the artwork, too, is now a thing. And you're just looking at all these like, gigantic cans with amazing artwork and weird names, and my head starts spinning like I don't even know what to get, you know,

Unknown: 37:05

you have hit the nail on the head. I've talked about that for some time lately. You know, it's interesting, because I mean, my friends formed our own brewing homebrew group at which is again by that decade ago, we called ourselves the backyard brewing society we get together and maybe once a month, and at least three, four, or five or six of us at a time would brew beer because there was no breweries in the Dayton area. So we wanted a good beer, we had to go to a specific bottle shop to find anything you were going to get at the grocery store the local supermarket. So we brewed. And then lo and behold, we start getting breweries in and it doesn't work, we could never actually start our own brewery or working on a bottle shop or anything. And now I think we've got either 17 or 18 local breweries and in the greater Dayton area. And none of them have gone under at all since the first one came online. And we don't anymore, because there's no reason to because we can go and get great beer, two minutes down the road. We miss hanging out and drinking and grilling and doing all that but the proliferation of great beer. It used to be you would go and look for what the marketing was from the big guys, so to speak. And now that's flipped. Now there's so many choices for craft beer, like you said, you're looking at packaging and artwork, not knowing Ah, this is a great IPA from founders or this is a great lager from stone. It's like Oh, that's a cool label. I'm gonna buy that one. Crazy.

Chris Spear: 38:27

I'm in Frederick, Maryland. And we have I'm just gonna roughly throw out there like 12 breweries or something here in town. And we're not that big flying dog is the biggest thing we have here. But I've got literally two breweries on the block at the end of my street that I could walk to in five minutes. And like, for a 10 minute walk, I can hit two more. And you know, we literally have four of them all in one neighborhood. We have a creek that goes through the middle of the city, and two breweries share the same building with a wall between them. And then there's a footbridge going across the creek. And on the other side, another two breweries.

Unknown: 39:00

If you look at what happened in England, and the United Kingdom, where local pubs eventually were bought out by the larger conglomerates, and they went away, and now you have the larger conglomerates, I think you're sort of seeing that rebirth of pub culture here, especially in light of COVID. And that's what you're seeing more and more, I think, embracing your local, so to speak. And I think it's a wonderful shift. And I think it really bodes well for the beer industry as a whole and is simply a better place to go and enjoy fresh local beer and food.

Chris Spear: 39:29

And I think it's one of those fun things, whether you're having visitors into town and you want to go out or having people over I mean, I would much rather say, here's a six pack of something from the brewery here that you're not going to be able to get at home, and whether you know, I just take them out to the brewery or I go and pick up a Growler, you know, most places are even canning their own stuff. Now, it's ridiculous that they're all you know, locally having their beer made. Putting in the cans on it's on the shelves in the store. I'd rather say hey, here's from something from we have a place called old mother or something from rock Well and share that with friends rather than saying like, here's a Sam Adams Not that there's anything wrong with that Sam Adams was the first craft beer I ever had. But yeah, I'd rather share something kind of unique with my friends.

Unknown: 40:10

What probably two points number one I remember being in college and drank Bud Light religiously and my dad on a weekend bought a six pack of Sam Adams and my friends rovers I discovered this new refrigerator and went offline what why did you buy this stuff this vile stuff and was my Bud Light and dad's like it says the best beer america that's on there. And of course these days you would not catch me near a Bud Light. But talk about home brewing. I was lucky because of COVID to travel for Weber got forts. I went to New York City twice in Chicago twice for photoshoots because they had they couldn't travel. And when I was in New York, some friends of mine on Instagram had reached out and they are all urologists, and they were homebrewers. And they lived up on the Upper West Side. And they had a brew day and I had an off day and invited me up. And sure enough, I mean, they're brewing in this small but large for they were apartment, and I figure how much space we used to take up outside brewing and they're all on electric stove. But they're totally into it, maximizing all that space, and we're making great beer. So it just, it's crazy how everyone adapts to do what they do. And there was just a cool chance to see them in action.

Chris Spear: 41:12

Oh, yeah. When I was in college, I didn't drink beer growing up as a teenager. I mean, I know that's not legal anyway. But my dad drank my drink. Oh, Milwaukee in the can. And I guess you know, I probably tried at one point. I was like, This is disgusting. But I grew up in Massachusetts. So when I was in college, the first nice beer I had with Sam Adams and it made my mind explode. I was like, This is not beer, right? But I remember one of my only friends who had a house off campus, he set up a home brewing setup in like his little storage unit in the basement of his apartment. So you know, like, down in the basement everyone had like this one little cubby and he had like his homebrew setup. You know, I don't even know if he was 21 at the time. But you know, see might need to see his setup of like his homebrewing gear like downstairs in his little storage. You know, I was like, Oh, this is pretty cool. Well, I've

Unknown: 41:59

always said with the guys ago, you know, monks can make beer in caves. We can do it in the backyard. It's possible I got one buddy still that you know he lives by an Excel spreadsheet and makes incredible beer but nothing fancy. You know, he but he just cranks it out. So it's totally doable.

Chris Spear: 42:15

Now as far as grilling goes, what some low hanging fruit to be a better grill master or do you have any tips for people who are you know, amateur grillers and maybe just kind of want to take it to the next level.

Unknown: 42:26

You know, to me, I always talk about this even my dad, you need two tools. You need a timer and a thermometer. Just last week at a co worker asked me about grilling chicken breasts, they always come out tough. I go, are you using a thermometer? And she's like, no, I go, okay. The timer is going to keep you in the ballpark. And then the thermometers gonna make sure you're right on target. And you'll have success every single time. And then she came back and said, yeah, it worked. I mean, it sounds silly. And I get all the you know, I can feel the meat and everything else and touch it. But yeah, the average backyard cook and home cook is probably doing six things at once besides dinner, and I know my you know, add kicks and something else that distracts like a squirrel in the backyard. If I'm a timer running, I'm going to screw up dinner. So you know, I use the trio stick from third pen, and it's got three timers on it. And it works great. I can do it for multiple things. And that will probably give you the more success than learning some crazy protein or buying some you know, fandangled spatula, use a timer.

Chris Spear: 43:26

I totally agree. I mean, I would always tell my cooks like even with steaks probem you know, like this whole like, I'm gonna stick my thumb on this ribeye and no one is medium rare. It's like, dude, like, if you just take the temp on that you're going to know like, if you are not a master at this, there's no shame in sticking a probe in and just kind of seeing where we're at.

Unknown: 43:46

Oh, completely, completely. I yeah, I've never, I always, always always do it. Because there's sometimes just the fire management might be off something's not where you think it should be. It's not ready. Yeah, it's funny. I grilled a 16 pound standing rib roast yesterday or Saturday night for a part of a breast cancer awareness fundraiser. And that kind of cut is not as daunting to me because it's so big. It's like you know, pushing a barge down the Ohio River, you kind of know where you're gonna go but still once you get into that zone is to probe it and make sure you're exactly where you want to be. And thankfully everything turned out great but you've got to be careful with that.

Chris Spear: 44:21

Yeah, for real that's an expensive piece of meat if you don't cook it properly.

Unknown: 44:26

Yes, I did not want to have that go down in flames so to speak. So thankfully it all turned out and then that was success and it was different entertaining for strangers in my home so I have much respect for what you do. That's totally out of my comfort zone but thank you everything turned out but definitely a lot of work.

Chris Spear: 44:42

Do you have anything exciting coming up any new things cooking

Unknown: 44:47

you know it's I'm doing some grilled guides for a fairly one on the website, which I guess I really pray can't say toilets out not attached to a Weber or anything else which I was flattered that they reached out for me to talk about so I've got that in the works. Just kind of seeing where the book goes, we're going to take over a Dayton brewery that's downtown for the book launch the Friday before Memorial Day, they're going to feature a few things in the cookbook on the menu. And we're gonna have like kind of a meet and greet for that night as part of celebrating the book launch and, of course, the heritage of beer here in the Dayton area. But for me, I'd say what is week by week, I'm just gonna hold on at work with my fingertips, and then just trying to keep up with everything else. I'm just, you know, we all I say chase your dreams, chase your side hustles you never know where they're going to take you. And when I was picking out, you know, poorly written grammatically prone blogger posts 15 years ago, I would never imagine one of his in your talking with you today. Or to have the ability to see my work in actual print that my parents were not embarrassed to read.

Chris Spear: 45:44

Yeah, that's really exciting, isn't it and kind of weird.

Unknown: 45:47

It's definitely an out of body experience. I was lucky and wrote some articles for Sports Illustrated three or four years ago about tailgating and some grilling stuff and everything and just, you know, having friends in airports, pick it up and see it number one, knowing I've zero sporting abilities, the fact actually a byline in a sports magazine is kind of ridiculous. But yeah, that's a wonderful feeling. And I know what the book is sort of happening as well. And like I said, it's a fun read and visually enjoyable. And if someone gets something out of it, that's great. That means I succeeded.

Chris Spear: 46:15

Was there anything else we didn't go over? Or that you want to get into? Before we get out of here today?

Unknown: 46:19

Then I think we covered the bases. No, I, I really enjoyed it. I enjoyed hearing about your take on things, too. It's always fun to talk to a fellow creative and how they approach things. And you know, the strengths and the weaknesses and the hurdles that they go through. And it's Yeah, I totally feel sorry, things that you're saying.

Chris Spear: 46:35

Yeah, it's interesting being a quote unquote, creative these days, you know, like, I always thought I was just gonna go work somewhere and cook and that was gonna be it. And now looking at like, there's really cool stuff, you know, but I never thought that I'd be blogging or podcast, podcasting. I mean, I've only been doing this for like, a year and a half now. Like, I never thought I was gonna have a podcast. So this is totally weird for me.

Unknown: 46:56

Well, it's funny, knowing your culinary background, I've often thought to myself, you know, two schools of thought, number one, do I want to go to culinary school, not because I want to open up a restaurant, but because maybe I just want to understand more of the culinary processes, they had to go through that. So that's kind of hanging in the wind, still to wonder if I get some more time here down the road, and do something like that?

Chris Spear: 47:15

Well, it's just like YouTube. There's so many great resources out there. I mean, I, I could talk for hours on this. We've talked on many of the podcast episodes about like, do you go to culinary school or don't you? And I think it depends on what you want to do. But there's so many great websites, cookbooks, videos that like for the most part, you can probably get through so much of it on your own. If you're the dedicated kind of person who can just, you know, read something and absorb it, and then just, you know, try and put it into action and change course as it goes.

Unknown: 47:43

Yeah, no, for sure. And I totally get that. Hey, we are we are blessed with such abundance of information. It's it's truly phenomenal. Yeah. Well, thanks

Chris Spear: 47:50

so much for coming on the show. I really appreciate it.

Unknown: 47:52

Chris has been an absolute pleasure. I've truly enjoyed talking to you. So thanks again for opening up your podcast doors and having me on.

Chris Spear: 47:59

And to all of our podcast listeners. This has been Chris with the Chefs Without Restaurants podcast. As always, you can find us at Chefs Without restaurants.com.org and on all social media platforms. Thanks so much and have a great day. Thanks for listening to the Chefs Without Restaurants podcast. And if you're interested in being a guest on the show, or sponsoring the show, please let us know. We can be reached at Chefs Without restaurants@gmail.com Thanks so much.