On the Farm - A Discussion with Photographer Aliza Eliazarov About Heritage Breed Animals and Their Portraits

Chris Spear: 0:00

Welcome everyone. This is Chris Spear with the Chefs Without Restaurants odcast. Today I have renowned hotographer Aliza Eliazarov. On ovember 17 she has a book

oming out called On the Farm: 0:08

eritage and Heralded Animal reeds in Portraits and Stories. he book invites us to take a loser look at the animal breeds aking center stage on ustainable farms and omesteads. It's equal parts ine art and Field Guide. assion for documenting issues urrounding food and farming has riven her work and led to umerous projects, publications, xhibitions and awards, most otably shooting cover stories or modern farmer magazine. elcome to the show, Aliza.

Aliza Eliazarov: 0:35

Thanks for having me, Chris.

Chris Spear: 0:37

Thanks so much for coming on. I'm excited to talk to you about this.

Aliza Eliazarov: 0:40

I'm excited to talk to you as well. Thanks.

Chris Spear: 0:42

So you're not a chef. This is chefs without restaurants. But we do occasionally have people who are not chess, you know, I really want to highlight people doing interesting things related to food and cooking. And I think this is definitely one of them. Well, I guess we should start off talking a little bit about how you got here. So you have a BS in natural resources management and engineering, a master's degree in both Creative Arts in Education and elementary education. And you're a graduate of the photojournalism and documentary program at the International Center of photography, is that right? That's right. That's quite a diverse background. So where would you like to start? How did you get to making a book about farm animals?

Aliza Eliazarov: 1:22

Well, I think I kind of it kind of in a way it came full circle. You know, I studied environmental engineering as an undergrad. And then I started working in the national parks, I did some work that focused on wildlife preservation, and conservation and endangered species work. So it wasn't agriculture. But my my program in the University of Connecticut was in the agricultural school, I was just more focused on preservation and conservation issues. And then I, I got my master's in arts and education. So I always was interested in photography, as a way to teach and learn through the art. So I integrated the arts throughout education. And then after years of teaching, I became more and more interested in photography, and I started studying photography, as I was teaching still. And eventually, I just made the shift at 35, I changed careers. And I went from being a teach school teacher back to school, when I moved from Los Angeles to New York, and went to photo school, so yeah, and then it's just kind of been hustlin. Ever since.

Chris Spear: 2:52

It's interesting, the way your career path can change, you know, as someone who's a chef has a personal chef business now, I'm doing so much media stuff. And it started just as being kind of self promotional, right. Like, I had to figure out how to get the word out there. So I was working on learning photography, so I could take photos of my dishes, and then it turned into, you know, blogging, so you could get good SEO for your website for your business. But then you're like, wow, I'm really turning into a media company. And now I have a podcast and something I actually love doing and thinking about, is there gonna be a time where I'm not actually cooking professionally, to make my money where I'm, you know, maybe doing something like this. And it's just interesting to being open to some of the changes that come along in your life.

Unknown: 3:34

It's true. Yeah, I think that like, for me, like, as I said, I had this conservation, more of an environmental background, but I started looking at kind of agriculture and sustainable agriculture. And then I became, you know, interested in that and use photography to kind of explore those issues, which I never would have predicted. You know, years ago, that that would be my path, but you know, it is.

Chris Spear: 4:05

I think I first became aware of you through starchefs

Unknown: 4:09

I was there in house photo editor and photographer for several years. So I did that for them. So I you know, I traveled the country with Star chefs, photographing chefs. bartenders, you know, Baker's whatever every every one that star chefs covers, photographing their process portraits and dishes and then I always also the, the photo director at the International shot Congress for a few years.

Chris Spear: 4:38

So that seems like kind of a different leap going from photographing chefs to photographing chickens or maybe it's maybe it's kind of the same thing, right?

Aliza Eliazarov: 4:49

I think I've always been interested in land issues and land use issues and when it became when my focus shifted to agricultural issues, then It became food issues, right? So food and food issues. So photographing farm animals and animals their use for food and agricultural issues isn't, you know, as closely connected with, with photographing food and drink, it just looks really, you know, maybe the photos look quite different.

Chris Spear: 5:24

Are there any animals that seem to like having their photos taken? Like what's it like photographing animals? I imagine it's kind of like photographing children like it's kind of hard because they don't take direction the way an adult might. But are there any, you know, like, do pigs like taking photos or having their photos taken or donkeys? Don't? Have you found anything like that?

Unknown: 5:44

Oh, oh, it is very similar to photographing children, I will have to say every single shoot is completely different. I can't and every animal is different. So every every interaction I have with an animal is is completely unique, I would say.

Chris Spear: 6:05

So why heritage breeds as opposed to just regular farm shoots or taking photos of animals in feedlots? Like what made you want to I know, you saw you kind of cringe there. But I have seen books, I think there's a book called k fo or something like that, which doesn't seem like a pleasant coffee table book for me to look at. But you know, what made you want to specifically go out and kind of photograph heritage breeds and share that with the world.

Unknown: 6:33

Well, I actually started photographing chickens, that the chicken, my chicken portrait project, work started before I started photographing for Star chefs. And it was concurrently with a personal project I was working on throughout that time. So what came first the chicken or the fine dining photos? It was kind of kind of the chickens actually came first. But I think that what happened for me was I felt like when, in 2009, when the when I finished photography school, and the we're going through a crisis of financial, we took

Chris Spear: 7:20

a call that the financial crisis or crash or the crash, whatever, yeah, in 2008. That wasn't good.

Unknown: 7:27

Yeah. So the the financial crisis hit in late 2008. And I finished photography school in the spring of 2009. So at that time, I started noticing more and more folks turning to to farming, leaving cities, young, first generation farmers, either moving to rural areas, or starting farms on rooftops around New York City, I lived in New York City. So I was seeing people starting community gardens in abandoned lots, I saw rooftop gardens happening. And a lot of backyard poultry that was was really just exploding during that time. I know a lot of it had to do with skill sharing, and social media. So what I was seeing was that people were starting these, these Facebook groups or meetup.com groups or whatever was that were poultry enthusiasts groups. And this was it was just as beautiful skill sharing that was happening and empowerment that was happening where people were like, hey, I want to raise my own chickens for eggs because I don't trust. I don't understand the difference of labeling. I'm distrustful of, of what I'm reading on. On pack like egg cartons. It's confusing, right? So I definitely think there was a kind of it was it there was definitely like the backyard poultry movement. And this period of people wanting to become more empowered, and independent in where their food came from. began raising their own chickens. And so I started photographing these chickens. And I traveled around I joined these backyard and post poultry enthusiast groups all around the country from Beverly Hills to New York, to wherever and I met these poultry enthusiasts. I traveled to their coops. I built a photo studio in their coop, and I laid down in the chicken coop and I photograph these chickens and, and that's kind of where it all started right and then from there It kind of grew and I became more and more interested in, in other animals. And eventually, that led to a job shooting the stories for modern farmer magazine and their cover stories, which was amazing. And then I had the opportunity to just travel all over and meet people who are raising, you know, goats using draft animal power to power their farm. So I was meeting draft horses. I was photographing bison, on ranches, on a ranch in Wisconsin, I got to just experience all of these meet all these different farmers. And so my as, as my, my shoots, the more I started shooting, the more my interest in photographing heritage breeds. I would say in addition to that, I learned more about biodiversity and the importance of biodiversity and maintaining biodiversity in our livestock and poultry populations. I think the UN FAO said that recently that 26% of our livestock and poultry population is endangered, endangered, going extinct? And people don't know that people don't know that there are endangered goats.

Chris Spear: 11:34

Yeah, that was that stuck out. For me in the book, I think it was like on the very within the first 10 pages and you had is like just on one page of the book. And that that really is scary to think that you know, once they're gone, they're not coming back.

Unknown: 11:46

That's right. So, you know, like, Animal, like any breed or any species, once they're gone. their unique genetics are lost forever. And the reason that we have so many endangered breeds of livestock and poultry is because of industrial farming.

Chris Spear: 12:15

I think it's really important to preserve as many of these types as you can. So what are what are some of the things you're seeing, like? How did someone get into trying to raise heritage breed animals? Like do you see a pattern as to why someone decides to kind of go out of their way to to do that?

Unknown: 12:35

Well, one thing I have to say is that I think that there are other reasons why heritage breed different breeds of animals need to any kind of animal needs to be preserved included the llama, there, there's llama alpaca, there are only two different kinds of alpaca. There's one kind of llama, but the reason that every kind of animal needs to be preserved in various breeds is also when populations go down, when only one Okay, so the really good explanation that some folks use sometimes to talk about the danger of biodiversity loss is the is the potato famine. So the potato famine during the potato famine, the Irish Potato Famine proceeding, the Irish potato famine, almost all of Ireland was subsisting on one kind of potato. So when the potato blight happened, all the potatoes were destroyed, leading to mass starvation in Ireland. Now, if various kinds of potatoes were planted, and there is more variety in the potato crop, it is possible that some of those potatoes could have been resistant to the blight. And as a result, there would have been increased food security instead of masturbation.

Chris Spear: 14:16

I think it's interesting that the popularity of farming is kind of having a resurgence. I mean, would you say that it's having a resurgence? Or are we seeing more? I mean, you hear this statistic that more and more people are stopping farming. But I guess kind of publicly as someone who's not really involved in that world, I keep seeing more small local farms popping up. So

Unknown: 14:37

definitely small local farms and homesteading. Absolutely. Yeah.

Chris Spear: 14:42

I mean, I think when you have a magazine, like modern farmer that's in a grocery store, you know, like Wegmans? I think that's interesting. You know, I can't remember prior to that, seeing farming magazines in a grocery store, you know, maybe in a rural area, but I think that was really interesting when that came up and like normal people were picking that magazine. To kind of maybe be inspired to start their own little micro farm in their yard? Mm hmm.

Unknown: 15:06

No, I mean, you see that the number of if you look at the statistics of just the number of farmers markets that have increased in across America from the 70s, until today, it's there. They're thousands and thousands more farmers markets. So that I think that really speaks to the number of small farms that are have incurred the increased number of small farms.

Chris Spear: 15:29

I think I've had three farmers on the show, none of them dealing with animals, all plants, but the conversation is the same as far as cost. You know, I think one of the big hurdles for people to buy these things are that it inherently costs more, you know, going to buy commodity pork loin at the grocery store, where you know, that's 299 a pound as opposed to 999 a pound for a locally raised heritage breed pig is a big jump and like, how do you get people to understand that? I mean, as a chef, I understand it, but I don't think you know, my in laws who are in their 70s understand, nor would they ever pay $10 a pound for a pork chop? Mm hmm.

Unknown: 16:11

I think that's a I think that's a huge issue facing the small farming community and the regenerative farming community and people who are I think it's a big issue, you know, and it's something that hasn't been figured out yet. I think also, that there's an opportunity to examine your own diet and think of what is your priority? What is what are what is your belief system around eating meat and what kind of meat you want to eat? And where it is sourced your meat, dairy and poultry and eggs? And if, if that means eating less meat, but only eating meat comes? That's better meat? There's a, there's a term in the, in the regenerative farming community, it's, it's not the cow. It's the How have you heard that? No,

Chris Spear: 17:09

but I like that.

Unknown: 17:11

Yeah. So I think for me, you know, for this whole book, this whole, this whole project, for me is, is a personal mission to better to, to gain a better understanding of, of how food was grown, and how food is raised, that we that we eat, and how animals, what our lives are like with domesticated farm animals that we've been living alongside for the past 10,000 years. And what I've come to personally, is that I will only eat meat if I know where it's coming from. And that's how my diets change. Personally, from this, you know, I want to know that it's been pasture raised and grass fed. And if it's not, I won't, I won't eat it. So that means eating less meat, but knowing my farmers and knowing how my, my animals are raised and supporting them.

Chris Spear: 18:15

Yeah, that's where we are in my household. Actually, when I met my wife, 20 years ago, she was a vegetarian. So then kind of by default, I became a vegetarian. I was I was trying out being a vegetarian, about half the week when I met her, and then I switched to full time. And she did mostly because of ethical issues with, you know, raising and killing animals eat meat now. But as we phased it back into our life, that was the discussion is, okay, if we're going to eat meat, let's be more selective about where it's coming from, and how its raised. And we still eat very vegetarian, heavy. I mean, last night, we had, you know, tofu as our protein at the dinner table, and my kids have now grown up eating that way. So having a balanced diet, and I would rather go spend $10 a pound on locally raised meat that tastes delicious, and goes back into the local farm system and a small family then sending that money to one of these big meat producers.

Unknown: 19:14

That's right. Yeah. And, you know, I've all my local farmers, the farmers that I've worked with for this book, and that are that I know, have been doing really, really well during COVID. Because I think that people when the, the big slaughterhouses and meat processing facilities were shut down. People got freaked out when their grocery stores were empty. People freaked out, and where did they turn, they turn to their local farmer, which is amazing. And finally,

Chris Spear: 19:47

this continues, you know, not that it was like a once and done and now that there's meat back in the grocery store shelves that they forget about those people. Hopefully, they've built some great relationships, and they're going to continue buying from them because yeah, I didn't see a matrix. shortage on the local level, you know, I was still able to get everything that I wanted. And that was great. And we talked a little bit before we started recording about autumn Olive farms in Virginia, which is one of my favorites. Clay and Linda, who run it, I think, are doing an amazing job down there. And it's a beautiful place. And, and I would encourage people to check out many farms if they can, but I've had the opportunity to go down there and hang out on their farms and see how they're actually raising their pigs. And it's really interesting, because they're also I think, doing a really good job with marketing. And in this day and age, I feel like marketing is not everything, but it really helps you and, you know, yesterday, they hit 10,000 followers on Instagram, which seems unheard of for someone who's running a farm. So I think that's really cool. And you got to go down to their farm as well and do some photography there. Right?

Unknown: 20:52

Yeah, I photographed a few different of their animals I photograph. Andy, a turkey that they rescued, who's no longer with us and their dog Mudflap, who is also no longer with us. But she but the reason we actually went there besides to photograph Andy, who kind of became the celebrity turkey who fell off the truck in this big turkey accident on the highway in Virginia, and was standing on the side of the road for 10 days. And they they rescued they rescued Andy and Andy became a bit of a local celebrity. What is that they they raise an endangered breed of, of hog, the ossabaw Island hog, which comes from one of the small islands off the coast of Georgia. And we're probably brought from by the Conquistadores and left there for hundreds of years. And so they even though they raise ossabaw, Island hogs, and Berkshire hogs and a lot of what they sell they call burka ba. So they it's the it's a mixed breed with the ossabaw Island hog, which is very fatty and, and the Burke, the Berkshire hog, which is a very popular breed. And their animals are all raised in silvopasture. out in the woods, their hogs are building nests. And feral in the woods, it's totally beautiful. In nature, they're running around, they are free, there's no cages there, they these pigs are living their best life. They're eating a corn, they're eating nuts, they're eating, you know, things they find on the ground, they're able to Nast and give birth on in the trees, and live just the most beautiful life. And I think that they're a wonderful example of a successful a successful farm that is at this at one time saving, helping to save an endangered breed. And also have a successful farm business. It's like knowing the farmers and knowing that if you support autumn Olive farm, if you understand that, if you're raising if you're going to buy some of their burger bars, you're not only getting a great ethically raised, cut of meat, that is from an animal that lived a wonderful, like a very wonderful life and had a great diet and were was cared for. But you're also helping to save a heritage breed. And that's like this is the this is this is the argument for knowing your farmer, right?

Chris Spear: 24:03

I don't know what this book, does it make it hard to then eat animals, you know, like you, you look at these animals, and there was like, humanized more, right? I think there is a big disconnect. And this is the conversation I have with people all the time about eating animals is, you know, you want to know where your food comes from. And you want to learn these stories a little bit. But then you see this book with these beautiful animals is like I don't know that I want to cook meat tonight after looking through your book. It's like I just want to hug them like they have such great personalities and stories. And I think that is where there's some of those challenges like people almost don't want to know that their meat was an animal, right? Like that's what I hear from people a lot of times Yeah,

Unknown: 24:43

yeah. But I think that that's, that's what my book is. The book isn't saying eat meat or not eat meat. It's just about considered this animal. Look at this animal get to know this animal. What is your relationship with this animal? What do you know about this? animal? What? What is your history? Like with this these animals, even your ancestry? And what is your present life look like, in connection with these animals? And how does that? How do you see your possible future connected with domesticated animals with that change from the present? It's not a call to action to eat better meat or to eat meat or to not eat meat. It's just, it's more of an opportunity for folks to see these animals up close and consider them for maybe the first time. I think that a lot of folks maybe haven't ever considered a turkey. No, or thought about a goat or looked at several different photos of a goat to see how different each breed looks. And why. or to even understand how farm animals even livestock and poultry arrived. In America, people folks don't know. You don't you know, how would you know unless you really thought about it, you know?

Chris Spear: 26:27

Yeah, I've never thought I've never thought about it. I have no idea where go

Unknown: 26:31

Yeah, you're here, you know, so. So when before before the Columbian Exchange, before Columbus, and the Conquistadores came to the you know, quote unquote, new world, the only domesticated animals were the llama and the alpacas in South America who were domesticated by indigenous folks there. The Muscovy duck, who was domesticated in Mexico and and southwest of the southwest part of America, which is now America, and turkeys, which were semi domesticated by different native peoples here in the in what is now the US. And besides that, there was nothing. There were no other domesticated animals here. On Columbus's second voyage in 1493, he brought a farm. He brought the first cattle to this part of the world. He brought horses that were used as weapons of war. He brought hogs, they brought goats, and they brought sheep. So all of these animals were introduced. Only then, and then more came over with settler colonizers who came to settle Jamestown and Virginia and the Plymouth mass permit Bay colonies in Massachusetts. They started bringing more more like British and you know, Irish and, you know, other kinds of animals. And then in Canada, they brought different kinds of horses and oxen, animals over from France, but they weren't here before. Yeah, that's

Chris Spear: 28:30

wild. Yeah. You know, you

Unknown: 28:31

think that I mean, you look at the Navajo blankets that were they were famous that Navajo are famous for their wool, their elaborate patterns and wool blankets. Well, the sheep were introduced by the Conquistadores. And only after that, did they start making elaborate weavings with wool.

Chris Spear: 29:00

So I want to talk a little bit about your process for photographing the animals and what that's like you did mention briefly about laying in a chicken coop in chicken poop. What's that? What's the process of taking these photos look like?

Unknown: 29:12

So to photograph animals, I travel to every farm and I build an onset studio, either in a barn, a shed or a stable. I bring in strobe lighting and backdrops. And I always photograph the animal against either a black backdrop or a white backdrop to give the viewer an opportunity to really, really look at the animal and be able to observe and consider the animal and connect with the animal without the distraction of an environmental portrait. I also think Feel that making a formal studio portrait of what is considered a common farm animal animals that are not usually revered, and being able to elevate them through formal portraiture helps really give an opportunity for viewers to to look at these animals and consider the animals in any way.

Chris Spear: 30:29

Yeah, you definitely get personality from them. I mean, I don't know anything about photographing animals. I mean, I do a little with people. But you know, like this. This weekend, we went to Chincoteague and Assa T, here and, and I took some photos of the horses, I mean, I got, I got probably closer than I should have been within like five feet. And at one point, I said to my daughter, like, we have to back up because there was a baby there. And I feel like dad was not loving how close we were. But you take photos of them, but it's the backdrop, you know, there's the trees there and all this stuff. And it's like, like an okay photo, like, Oh, I was near the horses. But when I look at the photos of you know, the animals that you have, you can really see the personality, like, it looks like some, some of them are laughing, or you can just see like, the depth in their eyes. And you really did capture photos of animals, the way that I think a good portrait photographer would capture photos of people. So I think it really stood out. Yeah,

Unknown: 31:21

thank you so much. Yeah, you know, I take on onset, I'm very quiet, I'm very patient. And I try to take my time to bet the animal feel comfortable in the studio space, because at first it it's an unfamiliar space for them. And I, I wait for that connection. And I through like just observing them and watching them for minutes, I think that I start seeing their personalities kind of emerge. And when I see their personalities emerge, is when the best portraits are made. And when there is a connection between myself and the animal. That is when a good portrait is made. And they're the individual animals personality really shines through.

Chris Spear: 32:15

How do you pick the particular animal? When you get to a farm? Does the farmer know who he wants to have the photo taken of? Or do you kind of like wander around and and try and see them in their natural environment and get an idea? How does that work?

Unknown: 32:30

a collaborative process with the farmer we work together to kind of talk about the animals will will do a little farm tour, the farmer will say Well, I think this animal is going to be really great because they've got a great personality, or they were a bottle baby or this one's really docile. And I think that there, there'll be the easiest to, to get a great photo of. But I have never without fail. I've never been on a shoot where the farmer hasn't been completely surprised at who was the good subject and the best model. And who didn't work out at all. At every shoot. There's one CoverGirl like supermodel superstar that shines, and it's never who the farmer expects it to be. So I think that's always really interesting.

Chris Spear: 33:20

So as you look at marketing this book, who's this book for? Do you have an idea of who your target audience is? Is this a art and photography book? Is it a farm history? I mean, I understand it's a little both. But as you think about how you're gonna get this out in the world, who do you think is going to be the ones picking this book up?

Unknown: 33:42

I think it's anyone who's a photography lover, a farm, a farm lover, an animal lover, people who are eco conscious consumers, people who are interested in sustainability and sustainability issues, farming issues, people who are looking into getting into homesteading and raising animals. I think all of the above, no. And you're going to be doing a book tour for this on the farms. Is

Chris Spear: 34:12

that right? Or something like that? Or?

Unknown: 34:14

Oh, yeah, yeah. So because of COVID since since like, a real in life, real life IRL book tour isn't happening. We decided to make lemonade out of lemons. And so we're gonna travel around to all of our farms that we photographed on and do farm friends story time on the farm, and I'm going to read the book to the sheep and the cows and the donkeys amazing.

Chris Spear: 34:45

Sounds like the best book tour ever. I mean, you gotta you gotta do you might have better results than like these weird virtual book talks anyway, right?

Unknown: 34:54

Yeah,

Chris Spear: 34:55

hang out with the animals. So I'm sure you know not to play favorites. But are there any particular animals that stand out for you that you really loved? Or there's a great story like, Yeah, what are some of the? What are some of the stories from these animal encounters that you have?

Unknown: 35:13

Well, I fall in love with every animal I photograph. I feel like in order to make a good photo and a good portrait of these animals, I have to have some kind of a connection. So I do feel a connection to every single animal. It's like kind of asking to pick your favorite kid or something like that. But I'm very fond of donkeys. I think they're so soulful they live for they can live up to 50 years. There's so long lived there's such they just there's their soul there's just these gentle souls I I love I love donkeys I I love how magical turkeys are you watching a turkey? perform a mating ritual is magic is a magical thing to witness I think watching their their snood on the top of their beak extend and their waddle change colors and puff and drum their wings on the ground and fan their feathers. I mean, I just think it's the most amazing thing to see. Um,

Chris Spear: 36:33

yeah. Did you ever think you'd be writing a book about or addressing scrotal, circumference and bowls and things like that? I found it so interesting. There are so many things in there that you don't even consider at all. Like you have no idea what the mating rituals of animals are. So I'm glad that you put some of those little tidbits in the book.

Unknown: 36:51

Yeah, I know. I'm really actually it sounds weird, but I'm really into animal like mating ritual behavior. I think it's some of the most fascinating research I've done is around there about around the mating mating rituals of different animals. And yeah, like the turkey is is magical. And that, you know, goats pee all over their faces.

Chris Spear: 37:21

Yeah, so they pee all over their own faces. Oh, yeah. That seems like a feat. I don't even know if I could do that to myself if I had to. I mean, I guess there may be a little more flexible or the way they lay down. Yeah, I read that part in the book where it's like they pee over their faces, and then they get it on.

Unknown: 37:38

Yeah, they pee all over themselves, honestly. But it's like the pheromones that are released in the urine is is really turns

Chris Spear: 37:46

turns. The gals on. This is such a such a far foray from photographing chefs and food, isn't it?

Unknown: 37:53

Really.

Chris Spear: 37:55

Although based on some of the numbers based on some of the stories we've heard on some bad behavior, maybe it isn't so far removed from chefs. It's true. You and you have a story about a pig who is a fan of Mohit O's Is that right?

Unknown: 38:10

Yeah, well, there's contest peppermint, the feminist pig lives on at wing and a prayer farm in Vermont. And she's doesn't see well, and she doesn't hear quite great. But pigs have, you know, just the way a pig is built. They can somehow sometimes climb upstairs but can't climb downstairs. So princess peppermint sometimes climbs up the stairs to the farmhouse to the back patio of the farmhouse. So like the deck to to say hi to the farmer.

Chris Spear: 38:52

Why not?

Unknown: 38:54

But when she's up there, she can't get she doesn't know what she can't get down. She gets like scared or like her vision she can't really see and figure out or, you know, she she's gonna take a tumble down the stairs. She I think she was afraid. So. There was this, there's a story in the book about Tammy the farmer when she encountered when she couldn't get peppermint down the stairs. Because she was just scared and scared. She just like couldn't figure out how to get this pig down the stairs. And then she's like, Oh, I just need to calm her nerves a little bit. So she stirred up a little mohito and the two of them had a little drink together. And it did the trick. It just calmed her down enough that she could walk down the stairs.

Chris Spear: 39:43

I mean, like that's a great story there. I wonder how often things like that happen? I'm sure more often than you'd realize.

Unknown: 39:49

Yeah, I think so. I think just farmers are just such problem solvers that they just are always kind of coming up with different whatever solution

Chris Spear: 39:59

Do you find most Have them are giving all of their animals names or a good portion of their animals names as much as they can.

Unknown: 40:05

It really depends, it depends whether or not the animals are going to be used for food or not. A lot of farmers won't name animals that are going to be used for food. animals that are fiber animals on small farms, they'll name and a lot of animals on this, you know, some of the animals there's always a selection of like bottle babies on farms that end up getting named. And who will never be food because they become pets, because they were bottle babies.

Chris Spear: 40:36

What else would you like to share? Before we get out of here today? Is there anything we didn't get into?

Unknown: 40:40

Well, I think that I would say that like if there are listeners that are interested in learning more about heritage breeds are wondering how they can support farmers who are raising heritage breeds, or are considering having raising a few animals of their own is that they should check out my book. And also the livestock Conservancy, which is really in the US is a great source for learning more about heritage breed animals. Also, the slow food, ark of taste, which has a really wonderful directory, and is a wonderful resource for getting to know what not only animals are endangered, but also produce plants that they can eat that are heirloom or endangered varieties of edible plants. I think that would be really wonderful for your people to know. And I think also just like just like with people with like chefs, your listeners if they're also chefs without restaurants that because I think it's possible that because they do not have they're not in a restaurant and have the constraints that a restaurant faces that there is an opportunity for a caterer or a personal chef to really support a small farm, who is possibly raising heritage breeds. There, there really is an eat them to save them. idea out there that in order to save heritage breeds, we have to create a market for these heritage breeds. And knowing your local farm and knowing what they're raising is a great way to support biodiversity and our and increase food security, both in your community and in the world. No. And I think global food security is such an issue right now. that anything that folks can do to support their local farmer, who is most likely raising a few breeds that aren't commercial breeds is a wonderful thing. I think also, it could be interesting to talk about the difference between what a heritage breed and a commercial breed, I'm not sure that folks understand exactly what a heritage breed is, and how they differ from a commercial breed.

Chris Spear: 43:35

You know, I know a lot about pigs because it seems like most of the people I know who are raising animals around here for food or raising pigs, you know, one of the things that I've learned is that the fat and a heritage breed pig, I think I'm correct here has the highest percent of natural vitamin D of anything out there. And that's because they're out in the sun. And they're fat as absorbing it through their skin. So you know, you think of eating fat as not being good? Well, if you're eating a pig that is in a feedlot and in a you know, a house all days, that's not the same as a pig who's out in nature doing that and the fact that yes, if you get this nice heritage breed pork chop, and it has this big, you know, one inch of fat on there that that fat actually has a lot more nutrition than if you were to eat, you know, a pork chop that comes from Smithfield or something like that. And and that's something that I've picked up talking to people on their farms.

Unknown: 44:29

Yeah. I think also just having like a basic understanding of the difference between what a commercial breed looks like and why why they were developed, they were developed to feed the masses, you know, when when the when farming was industrialized, in the 30s. After and especially in the in the 1940s. As we grew into an industrialized nation, there was this, there was this idea that we needed a better, bigger and better food system to feed more people. And that's why When the business of agriculture turned into big business, and we left the small farm, and the farm became a factory, and big business was farming, that's why it was like a farm factory. So and because and when this happened, so this like whole idea was that because we started these giant farm factories that we needed to feed more people, there was this push to develop animals that grew faster, grew bigger, produced more milk, produced more eggs, produced, you know, huge bras, all of these things that that were developed through breeding practices to create these commercial breeds. These breeds also then were raised because they were raised in like feedlots and factory farms. They'd never seen the outdoors, they never grazed and over generations, they lost their maternal instincts. They lost, they were because they're being fed antibiotics regularly, they lost their hardiness and their ability to be parasite resistant. They lost their ability to be good mothers. So the difference, tween an important difference between these these animals is that a heritage breed animal is independent, can live in nature, outdoors, can forage independently can give birth naturally. And mother, they're young, and are disease resistant. And these are all really important traits for an animal to have.

Chris Spear: 47:10

It seems like in some respects, it's almost easier, like if they're foraging for their own food, that's one less thing you kind of have to do to is like, you don't have to be so meticulous about feeding them if you have pigs living in your little wooded area, and they can just kind of go about and eat when they're ready to eat. That also seems like it's somewhat easier in some respects and less expensive. You're not building gigantic, you know, concrete structures, and so forth. So it seems like it would also be somewhat beneficial. But you just see these animals seem to be happier, right? When they're living in their own environment.

Unknown: 47:44

They're incredibly happier, I think and that they're eating what they're meant to eat, then instead of a diet that they are not meant to eat industrial base cows on k foes on feedlots or, you know, they're fed corn that place with antibiotic that's not a natural diet for a cow. No, they're not. And the cat that, how is that corn raised? That corn is grown on giant monoculture, lots that are, you know, pumped with herbicides that are derived from chemical components that pollute our environment, our water, our soil, deplete the soil, contribute to erosion, contribute to disease of both farmers and wildlife and humans are carcinogenic. They contribute to climate change. All of this is connected to the in the raising of commercial breeds on an industrialized farms.

Chris Spear: 48:53

So much bigger conversation than you can tackle in a one hour podcast, right? I mean, it's something I've been looking at for years. And yeah, yeah, trying to do my part. So I'm going to try and share resources with our listeners, you know, in the show notes and point them in the right direction. What I love is, after the podcast, a lot of times these conversations spill out into forums on the internet, or even, you know, text messages with people and trying to spread the word because I'm a believer in this. So I'm so glad you could come and talk about this with with me and I can share this with the world.

Unknown: 49:26

Thanks for having me.

Chris Spear: 49:27

So where can people find the book? what's the what's the best way for people to pick this up?

Unknown: 49:33

The book is where it's wherever you buy books,

Chris Spear: 49:36

so it'll be everywhere.

Unknown: 49:38

It's everywhere. It's your it's at Barnes and Noble on Barnes and noble.com on amazon.com at your local independent bookstore, you could request it from your independent bookstore is published by 10 speed press which is part of Penguin Random House so it's it's out there in the world and Wherever you buy books,

Chris Spear: 50:01

and what's the best way for people to connect with you? Do you want people to find you somewhere on the internet?

Unknown: 50:06

Yeah. Always. If they wanted to follow me on Instagram, it's Elisa dot lasr of on Instagram and Elisa, Leah's dot com is my website. Yeah. And I'm, I'm here,

Chris Spear: 50:22

and I'll link all that up in the show notes so they can just click on it'll be really easy for them. Awesome. Well, thanks so much for coming on the show. I really appreciate this. I enjoyed talking about this. And I love the book.

Unknown: 50:33

Thank you. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. Even though I'm not a chef without a restaurant. I'm a I'm a photographer without a without a book tour.

Chris Spear: 50:45

I just love talking to people and sharing th stories of people who are doing interesting things that aren't, ou know, there's a lot of am zing chefs and restaurants and don't knock that but there's a lot of really cool people oing things related to food a d beverage and hospitality that ust aren't related to being like a line cook or a chef in a restaurant. And that's what we're trying to do here on the s ow. So for all of our listeners, this has been the Chefs ithout Restaurants podcast. s always, you can find us at chefswithoutrestaurants.com and .org and on all social media pl tforms. Thanks so much, and hav a great week.