One Moment Can Change Your Life - with Philadelphia Chef Eli Kulp

This is the Chefs Without Restaurants podcast with your host, Chris spear. Each week, I'll be speaking with food entrepreneurs and people in the culinary industry. If you're interested in learning more about our organization dedicated to helping people build and grow their food businesses. Look us up on the web at chefs without restaurants.com and.org and on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter at Chefs Without Restaurants. Now, enjoy the show almost every day, I wake up and expect that I'm gonna have a somewhat normal day. You know, good things happen. Sometimes bad things happen. Not usually anything terrible. But sometimes there's a day where I don't know your luck runs out. Maybe this is a depressing way to start a podcast but this episode is really had me thinking about some things. Chef Eli Kulp was just coming home from work one day he was taking the Amtrak train, and the train derailed. Eight people on that train died. Thankfully, he was not one of them. But he went flying through the air, his back hit the luggage rack, and it left him paralyzed. He's now in a wheelchair. You know, he was a chef at the top of his game food and wine, Best New Chef, all the accolades, right. Not that accolades or everything. But just to say that he was a chef chef, who's in the process of getting another restaurant opened. And in the blink of an eye, that's it. What would you do? Could you imagine if tomorrow, you were bound to a wheelchair, and you couldn't even use your hands. And you had to go through months and months of rehab? I don't know. I was just amazed at how he took something like that. And it's kind of been able to recover from that and even look on the bright side of things, I guess. You know, he's got a young son, I think his son was three at the time when this happened. And, you know, working in restaurants is tough on families, who knows what kind of time he would have had with his son, if he was living that previous life, running multiple restaurants in different cities. So maybe it was a blessing in disguise. So on the show, he's going to talk about his story of you know how he started in the food business, we have some fun conversation, too. We talked about his mom's love of microwave cooking, we talked about his love of the Philadelphia roast pork sandwich and not being a fan of the Philly Cheesesteak. I know that's a controversial thing there. But the heart of this story is that literally in seconds, his life has changed forever. And not only is he going to relate that story, but he is also going to just talk about, you know, the depression that came out of this, he said he didn't even know if he wanted to continue living. So I'm so glad that Eli is still with us. He now has two fantastic podcasts, which you should definitely check out. And I think he's an inspiration. And someone who I think is going to continue to change the food service industry. So I hope you enjoy this episode. And just take a moment to be grateful for all the gifts you have all the blessings you have, and the life that you have. And just a quick note that the podcast release day for now is going to be changing to Wednesday. So I'm just going to be kind of moving the schedule around a little bit. If you have opinions on that. Feel free to drop me a line. And as always, you can find me on Instagram at Chefs Without Restaurants or hit me up Via email at chefs without restaurants@gmail.com. Thanks so much for listening and have a great week. Hey, Eli, welcome to the show. It's great to see you.

What's going on? How are you good to be here.

I'm fantastic. I always love when I have a chef who podcast. I mean, I love all my chefs on my show. But it's also nice to connect with someone who can kind of has both of the dual interests going on there.

I tell you what podcasting is open so many doors, and it's just, it's one of the thing too, you don't expect it to. When you start out, you just expect you know, these these interviews and I'll publish them and they're and they're simple and they're you know, they're straightforward and No, no frills. And then you kind of get a little bit more into the craft and you learn that there's a whole skill set behind it. And, you know, you sort of apply those same same work ethic to what we do in the kitchen, but you do it, you know, for the podcasts. And yeah, it's been fun, man. It's been a fun ride. So yeah, thank you for having me on the show. Really appreciate it.

You're welcome. I find it really rewarding. Like the feedback I get from people who say, I listened to this episode. And it was great. And it really helped me or, you know, I was able to acquire customers or charge more for my services after listening to this episode. Yeah. fulfilling to you know, do you get good feedback like that from listeners?

I do. It's amazing. Just walking down the street sometime. And farmers markets are you know, there's like, a lot of foodies there at the farmers market. So they're always like, hey, you know, Chef, you know, love the show. You know, I've been getting so much out of it. You know, whether it's a cook or another chef. Yeah, it's been great. Actually, it was able to do a live event was last week in in Philly, where we raised a bunch of money for local food organization. That was a team. We had 125 people there. We had 15 chefs cooking. Yeah, it was great. And did some live live interviews on stage. It was a blast. So yeah, like I said, podcasting is one of those things where you start out thinking one thing and before you know it, you're you're you're in this whole other stratosphere of potential opportunities. So it's been great.

And not something that you came up with. You didn't go to school for media or journalism. Right? You're, you're a chef chef. And, you know, I'd say a pretty well known chef, especially in your area, I usually start the show with kind of like culinary background. So let's start there. Growing up food cooking was something you're always into. Did you love eating as a kid? When did you start cooking professionally?

I would say food was never like the center of, you know, our family. My mom immigrated from Holland, when she met my father than Lake Tahoe. There were a couple traveling hippies. And they met and they found this little spot in Washington state where I grew up in a dirt road little single wide trailer. And, you know, I wouldn't say we weren't, we weren't poor, but we were under the poverty line. Like, you know, no doubt about it. My dad was a timber worker. So it'd be times he's unemployment for big stretches. And, you know, as a timber industry went kind of back and forth with you know, we had the spotted owl out there and shut down so much timber, you know, timber work that, you know, for him. I remember that period of my life and but my mom, my mom actually learned to cook a little bit for my dad, which doesn't even make sense, right? Think about it, because he never cooks. But regardless, she had her you know, 10 recipes that she would kind of recycle and, you know, there's some good ones. I still love them. You know, sauerkraut with some kielbasa mashed potatoes. takes me right back to childhood. You know what I mean? But she had some ones that were like, sweet and sour meatballs out of the Betty Crocker cookbook with canned pineapple, and cornstarch, you know, and so, there's always food on the table. We're never hungry. But there was times we were waiting in line to get free cheese, you know, at out the, at the food bank. So it wasn't until I was 14 years old. When a lady came to the small town I grew up and it's called mossy rock, Washington. It's 500 people in this town. Extremely small, extremely remote. There's not a lot around there. And she opened this tiny little cafe, called Irish roots cafe and had linens on the table. It had these green napkins, I was wearing to green cumberbund and, and bow tie. And we're talking about a small redneck town, you know what I mean? And she had these aspirations of, you know, maybe the tour the tourists that would come in, you know, throughout the summer, we had some festivals and things that we did there. And, you know, she was there for probably almost 10 years, but I got in there as a dishwasher, busboy like, you know, this is sort of the entry for a lot of chefs into the industry. And I really gravitated to the kitchen really quickly. And by the time I left, high school, I knew what I wanted to do. And if cooking didn't work out, I was gonna be a marine biologist. But cooking worked out and immediately went out into Portland. After I grew after I graduated high school, started cooking out there, went to Seattle. In about see that was 2001. I went to Seattle, I was there for about four years. And then I wasn't cooking in good restaurants. I was cooking actually the Irish Pub, and I moved to front of the house, I was learning management and it was a corporate gig. So I learned a lot about numbers, and running a restaurant and managing a kitchen and all that at a very young age. I was 2021 years old. And then I went to New York and started all over again and went to the CIA there, then went to the went and worked in Manhattan. And that's where, you know, I was there for the better part of nine years. So food for me growing up was No, there wasn't a lot of emphasis on cooking fantastic meals and all that it was there for consumption. And, you know, we sat down and, you know, we talked as a family and it was that was it, you know,

you know, it's really funny, like, like, our parents had a cycle menu at home, right? Like you're talking about the same things like, same thing. My mom's recipes. You know, she cooked good food, but it wasn't fancy. And the things that I grew up with my favorite is called Greco and it's a casserole with like, shell noodles like Shell pasta, and it's like canned tomato sauce, canned mushrooms, you sauteed peppers and onions, add cream corn, mix that all up and put cheddar cheese on it and bake it in the oven. And I've tried to make fancy versions. I've tried to get like my ice hockey mushrooms I've tried to use poblano. It's not the same, like because of the nostalgia. And we talk a lot about that on the podcast as like, as a chef in a restaurant. How do you kind of tap into the someone else's nostalgia like not knowing them? Because this dish would maybe be nice for someone else. Like if I made it fancy, but I make it at home like it just it doesn't taste like home, right?

Well, it's funny, I was just talking about somebody yesterday about my mom's love for the microwave. And she still use it as a main cooking mechanism. And our meatloaf that we had was, you know, he basically made the mix of meatloaf in a bowl. Then you take a glass, like a water glass, you shove it down to the center. So it's like, think of like a bundt cake now, right? So it's like, it's gonna be a bundt cake. And then cook in the microwave. And then make a sweet and sour ketchup just by adding sugar to catch up. Slather that on top. And so the after it's after it's warm and throw it on the table and you know eat your eat your meatloaf, and she did asparagus wrapped in ham with with cheese. You know, working mother, you got to do it. You got to do I don't blame her. And I still I still can taste those and they make me happy. So she did something right.

David Chang was just nominated for James Beard Award for his microwave cookbook, right? It's like one of three best cookbooks this past year. It was like David Chang's book on micro. Yeah. Oh, really? Yeah. It came out last year. I think it's just called like how to cook or something like that, that he co wrote this book on like microwave use, and well, he's got he's got the Midas touch. So he does. So you know, maybe your mom was just ahead of the curve. She should have written her microwave cookbook.

I don't I don't hate a microwave. I don't. I don't use it for everything.

Time and Place, you know, place. Well, how did you end up in Philly, you're not from there. I know. You talked about New York. So kind of bring us up to the Philly era. You got to Philly. How and what were you doing in Philly.

So I was in New York City is going back to 2012. And I've been in New York, you know, for roughly eight or nine years at that point. And I was working at a restaurant called Tracy Italian Specialties. And this was a restaurant it was a phenomenon restaurant as well as lightning in the bottle. Ones it was two really good friends of mine, Mario Carbone and rich Tracy and they went to the CIA together roommates, NCAA, they've been you know, they were fast friends and they still are just this odd couple that there's a blast to be around. But they put their life savings they put their family savings in this little restaurant in Little Italy. Little tiny thing. It's it was 900 square feet altogether, I think including the kitchen. So the the dining room was about 500 square feet. And we had like 25 seats. And what they were able to do, they started cooking with a New York point of view, but through to Italian lens, right. So they had this little shop, they look like a little Italian market that you know, all these classic, you know Italian American brands on the shelves to kind of give it that feel of Italian market. Daytime was sandwiches and there'll be a line out the block around the block for sandwiches. The nighttime they'd flip it into this little prefix menu that had essentially three corset antipasti he had pasta a And you can choose any of the other, you could choose with your entree. It was just three of us. And they brought me on as a chef de cuisine, because they wanted to open up another restaurant. So they said, You know, I guess that I worked with both of them in the past. And, you know, they said, you know, Eli, come down, you'll help us run this restaurant. Well, we can help. You know, you can, we can focus on other areas. I said, Listen, I'll do it for you guys. I even took a pay cut, because they couldn't afford me. I said, but listen, I'm not going to be there just being your shadow. Like, if you tell me that you can give me a restaurant. You know, Rich has his restaurant now. Mark, you want to hit restaurant, I want to be in line for the third restaurant. I will do that. You know, I mean, I will do that for you guys. And that was a plan. Like, you know, they baked me into the business model of Carbone. You know, and for when they're going to open it. But going into it, you know, it's this Italian American restaurant is high in Italian American restaurant. And I just felt it wasn't me. I wasn't, I wasn't gonna be able to be there. Just cook with love, because that's not who I am. I'm not Italian American, right. So, you know, I reached out to Alfred Ehrlich, which is who's like the dude that plays so many chefs all around the city and all these different restaurants. He knows every chef, he's basically a recruiter, and my partner. Now my business partner, Ellen Yin, in Philadelphia reached out to him about the same time. So he called me and said, Hey, what do you think about going to Philly? I'm like, where's Philly? You know, like, I had been, you know, eight, nine years in New York at that point. And I'd never even been to Philly. It never even crossed my mind to go to Philadelphia. Totally did it crossed my mind. But I know, it could have been 1010 hours away, I look on a map and see how flowers it's less than two hours you can get if I if I leave right now from Philadelphia and drive New York, it's an hour and a half. Train, it's even less right. So I came down here. I love what she was saying. Fork restaurant had been in Philadelphia that point 15 years. And she wanted to bring it up to date. She wants to modernize it, she wants to and I love that she was saying she was gonna give me the a lot of a lot of freedom in the kitchen. And what I was able to do. The number one thing you can't do in Philadelphia, is coming to Philadelphia and say, I'm a chef in New York. Look at me how good I am. Like it won't work. Like it'll be like, get the hell out of here. Get back to New York go kick rocks, right. And I knew that going in because I one thing I knew about Philadelphia, is this a prideful city people of love, love love Philadelphia, they're so proud to be a part of Philadelphia. And whether you lived here your whole life or you know, you've been here for five, six years. Once you get to know Philly people fall in love with it. Right? So it was an opportunity for me to come down to Philly. I've been cooking food with rich and Mario at that point, using this sort of process of okay, how do you look at food through a personal lens? That is a meaningful story, right? Well, my family even though I didn't grow up here, I didn't have any relatives or close relatives here in Pennsylvania. My family's from here. My dad by the name cope. It's a it's a pen Dutch name that came over in the 1600s. You know, generations of cults were here before me. And my grandparents had moved to Buffalo where my father was raised. And then my father, and my mom moved out the West Coast. Well, my grandparents followed them to the west coast as well. So we're all out there. We're basically West Coast family at that point. So what I was able to do was apply the same thought process that we're doing in New York City, but for my own personal perspective. So all of a sudden, I find myself with a personal connection. And I'm starting to cook, what is Italian ish food, new American ish food, but with a perspective of, you know, this is rich heritage, you know, that a rich heritage and in Philadelphia is the birthplace of democracy, you know, what else can we do? And it was just this, I was just ripping through, you know, history books and old cookbooks and, you know, my own family and looking at, like, you know, the producers, right, Pennsylvania, Dutch, Lancaster, you know, the richest soil in the world, you know, this, this deep, deep, rich culture of food in Philadelphia and the surrounding areas. And I was able to apply that in a way that the diner, you know, the Philadelphia dining, food press, or whatever, everybody was like, Oh, wow. Okay, so you're cool. Like, you know, I mean, like, we'll give you a free pass because you're, you're diving into your own history and all of a sudden, we're able to taste some of that and nobody You had done that in Philadelphia because, you know, there was a few restaurants that were here for a long time, right? Yeah, your love back fin, you had your look qua you know, these very high, you know, Haute French cuisine restaurants. And then you had Marc Vetri, who had, you know, started doing Italian food, but he was doing real Italian food in Philly. He wasn't doing Philly Italian food, you know what I mean? So he was, you know, he took what he knew from his training out over in Italy and brought that back and did amazing thing. So, yeah, this is the first time it had, somebody had had said, Okay, let's embrace what we're doing in Philly, like, let's be proud of the food we're doing. And let's look at it, and how do we, you know, attach it. So an example of that, you know, there's a big, there's a rich Jewish community in Philadelphia, just like New York, and a lot of East Coast states. And for me, growing up on the West Coast and small town, I was never, I was never, you know, that never really crossed my mind, you know, like, what Jewish food is and the importance of it and what it plays. And in the East Coast sort of diet, I guess you would say, so, you know, for example, I did Philadelphia, cream cheese and a little mini bagels for an hors d'oeuvre. But we were making our cream cheese with local milk, right? So technically, it was infused with hay, and, you know, these different flavors of it. So everybody puts Philadelphia cream to their bagel all around the world, right? You know, those are the type of ideas and thought processes that I was able to apply. And it really took off, like people really embraced it. And, you know, and sort of the rest was history. So

how much did the menu change when you took over? Because it was a restaurant that was already established? But it sounds like you changed it a lot? And was there any kind of pushback or feedback? I know, sometimes customers have favorite restaurants, a new chef comes in and goes in a little direction. So what was it like?

Oh, it was a process for sure. At that point, you know, fork had become a restaurant that was, you know, sort of, I would say, New American French, that was I was sort of the general field, the menu. And, you know, it was it was relatively safe food. And it was, you know, for an audience that wanted safety and comfort and, you know, the consistency and it was, listen, it was good food, I'm not gonna like, talk shit about it at all. You know, there was a good chef Terrence Fury was there before me. And he's a big Philadelphia name, longtime chef, and fairly well trained. However, it was, it was just dated. So the process for me was to, I didn't want like shock and awe is creating safety in the menu, like certain dishes, that were going to be okay for a certain clientele. We're doing dry, aged guinea hen, you know, with eat our cabbage. And, you know, we're making our own cream fresh. And, you know, that's the chicken dish, right? It's also the way your dry aging chicken, like, you know, like, it's all about education, right? So you educate the diner and make them comfortable. And that's where that's why servers are so important, right? They're the, they're the liaison, they're that attachment between you and the customer. And, you know, so we just had, we had a great service staff that was able to, you know, massage those, those moments, and, you know, win people over. So, you know, it took a little bit of time, but you know, we did it.

And then you were tapped to go to New York and do an up there, right?

This was 2012. We did for a year later, we opened up our second restaurant next door called High Street on market, which was, which was a bakery slash all day cafe. And this was sort of before the All Day Cafe became super popular. And that was born out of what was already there. So Elon had my partner had a little like mini takeout cafe called fork excetera. Next door, so I was like, well, they're only using this space during the day. Why don't we do this? Right. So I found an amazing Baker who had just come down from New York City, Alex bois. He was working, he was a main head baker at Sullivan street bakery. I just found a pastry chef who had just come from Madison, Wisconsin. And she was super talented. She was really on the cusp of what was going on in the pastry world, you know, in tune with what's going on, like a Noma and, you know, all these sort of restaurants around the world that were, you know, kind of looking at, you know, the nature around them and the bounty and how to apply that into their menus. And then, you know, John nada, who was her husband, but he was just, you know, hyper talented chef in his own right. And it was just this blend of, you know, four people and I was just, you know, I was I was just sort of guiding them and, and, you know, helping them figure out the vision and we really land on this vision of, you know, amazing breads, again, looking local. You know, we weren't buying grains from outside Pennsylvania. Maybe are all purposeful are sometimes cane but we're really focusing on, you know, this one mill called Castle Valley mills. And they started supplying us with all these amazing grains and corn and all these things. And the baker aspect really blew up, we had this really robust breakfast and lunch program. The dinner program was what I always thought was the most fun, but it was like crickets in the beginning, right? It was, nobody can understand it, because we're doing these, we're doing these kind of oddball postures, you know, using fermentation and all these things. And, you know, fermentation was, yeah, it was sort of in the beginning, you know, now it's everywhere. But this was back, you know, almost 10 years ago. So, you know, we were able to kind of get on that that bustle early in. But you know, it took time for people to get it right. So, an example of that would be my favorite sandwich in Philadelphia is the roast pork with sharp Provolone and broccoli, Rob, that's like, it's a classic it is, right? And there's a few places that do really, really, really well. De Nicks is one of them in Reading Terminal ones John's roast pork in South Philly. And I mean, you could take the cheesesteak and just get rid of it. I don't care. I don't like that sandwich. I never have I'll say it out loud. It's it's mediocre at best. That's a bold statement. There's like two or three places that do a good Cheesesteak. And part of that reason because they use like really good bread, right? But the roast pork and broccoli Rob, if anybody's coming to Philly, I mean you get cheese steak, whatever, you know, Instagram it, whatever you want to do, but get a roast pork and broccoli, Rob. And with sharp Provolone because it is it's mind blowing, right? And what I did when I after I had that sounds like holy shit, I know exactly what I'm gonna do here. I had been doing it fermented broccoli, Rob, up in New York at turrisi for a scallop, raw scallop dish. And I was like, Well, I know what to do. So essentially, we make broccoli, Rob kimchi, and put it on this roast pork with broccoli, provolone, on our house bait, you know, see this semolina, how you roll. And it was just like, boom, like mind blowing, right? And, you know, because the broccoli robs us just like boiled or something put on there. And it was like an afterthought. So, you know, for me, that was like one example of like, what really took off and they were doing pastrami cheese and all these housemade meats. And so it was really this moment of just hyper creativity. And, again, almost more like toward the Tracy side, like fork was of a more established fine dining restaurant, you had to sort of, you know, you had these sort of parameters and you know, these guardrails, I guess you have to work with, to sort of keep that standard, where high street was just a sandbox. It was just fun. And, you know, we recognized, bon appetit gave us you know, when their top 10 ranks of the best restaurants there. And in their magazine, actually, the number two behind my friend Erin Silverman's restaurant rose luxury, down in DC. Hill when that happened that year. Yeah. So, you know, can't say enough about Erin we work together in New York is line cooks, and at this crappy little restaurant, that didn't even survive, but we stayed in touch, and, as always good to see what he's doing down there. And, you know, for me, it was just, this is really fun. I had this great team, it was just me, you know, I felt like that coach on the sidelines with the amazingly talented team of people, and you're just trying to make sure that you, you know, you give them that that creative outlet, you know, you just sort of again, you're you are the guardrails, now, you know, as the chef, and then 2015 came around, and, you know, we had this opportunity to open a high street up in New York City. You know, there's a lot of buzz about it down here in Philly. And we felt like it was a good opportunity to go up there. So there's a whole nother story. But my wife at the time, her job was between Philly and New York. So it actually made sense for us to kind of get an apartment up in New York, and I would commute back and forth between the two restaurants. So in 2015, you know, we early 2015 I was searching for restaurants, we found what a march we signed the lease. And, you know, we just started to, you know, put paper on the windows, you know, the people knew in New York that we were coming and we just announced it. And you know, we felt really great about it and our opportunities there. And, you know, we had to you know, we had to do some minor construction on the restaurant to get to where he wanted. So, we probably had you know, we were looking at like six months of work to get this restaurant turned around. And you know, we're gonna do the same thing I in bread bakery, focus on local grains. And for me, it was like a homecoming, right? Like, okay, I kind of cut my teeth in New York. I got my education in New York. You know, three years later, I'm able to come back in Open this, this restaurant that really proud of what we did. And, you know, that was when, you know, my life sort of changed drastically commuting from Philly to New York.

I'd love to talk about that day. You know, most people just kind of go about their day thinking that everything is going to be normal and unremarkable. I'm sure a lot of our listeners know, but can you talk about the day that kind of changed everything?

Absolutely, yeah, it was May 12 2015. I come down to cook this special luncheon for these ladies who had requested it is really 10 amazing women in Philly that had recently been recognized. And I want to do something nice for them. So I came down. And it was not my normal day to be down there. And you know, I stayed through service, it was not as the route 830 I was like, Okay, I'm a wrap up. I think it was a Tuesday or something. So it wasn't like we had like a busy service or anything. And so wrapped up. And usually I would take the later train up to New York 10 o'clock train. But this one was done early. So I jumped on the 905 train, Amtrak train 188, you know, walk down the platform, gotten the train as normal train took off as normal, and nothing special happening. Nine minutes in to the train ride. You know, it was dark, it couldn't really tell how fast we're going or where we were anything. And I felt like this really big shutter in the train. And more than normal. And, you know, within a second, the train had derailed off the track, going 108 miles an hour. And in a curve that was that was a 55 mile an hour curve. The engineer had basically lost track of where he was, there was some distraction from another train getting a rock thrown at it, that he was on the radio, apparently, you know, just sort of lost track of where he was, he thought he was entering a straight stretch, he accelerated and he was accelerating through the curve as the train derailed. So he had completely become disoriented. And the first four cars of the train derailed. And you know, it was it was a big deal. A lot of people lost their lives, eight people died. I was in the second car back from the engine. So we're kind of right there, where the where the engine had come off the track. It was the business car. And then it was the quiet car where I was. And you know, it was in the very front of the of the quiet car where they had like the double seats for larger groups, they can sit and face each other well, I could it was a slow night on the train, which I still understand why there was such a slow night of the train. Because usually this train would be packed. But you know, I was able to put my feet up on the on the seat and just kind of kick back and close my eyes and you know, take a nap on the way home. And like you said, nine minutes and train derails, I go fly into the air. I don't know if you can imagine this. But I was on the left side of the train facing forward, the train derails to the right. So it kind of springboards me up in the air. And whatever reason I turned about 90 degrees in the air and my neck hit squarely against the luggage rack of the other opposite seats. And it immediately, you know, compressed my spinal cord and shattered the spine there so and sort of fell into a heap and under a bunch of stuff and debris, and it was dark. And, you know, nobody knew was going on. I pretty much knew that I was that my life had changed in a big way. But yeah, I sort of I was paralyzed from from essentially the chest down that that moment.

So you knew essentially, like when you were on the ground that like you couldn't get up and walk and shake that off.

Yeah, so immediately I'm laying I'm technically in the train still, but I'm laying on the would be the side windows, because it flipped over to the right. You know, so I was kind of on the rock and the stone that was kind of around the track. And, you know, I mean, you try to push up, you know, I knew stuff was on me. So you try to do a push up, but nothing works. And that's how quick it happens with spinal cord injuries. It's just a matter of a second split second, your your body just goes limp.

And it could have been much worse. I mean, there were many people who died. But was it Christopher Reeve like he fell off a horse or something was that spinal cord? Yeah,

exactly. Yeah. Chris Reeve. Superman. Yeah, yeah. Spinal cord injury, especially one that's, that's, you know, at the level of mind where it's higher up, because you know, you have your spine is, you know, as you work your way down if you know a lot of people are paraplegic, people see paraplegic people pushing themselves in the chair. Well, my level of injury you know, I need a I need a power chair to get around. And you know, just I'm I'm highly impacted. You know, I lost my ability to grasp somebody with my hands. You know, I was the last time I use a chef's knife. That's the last time I, you know, walked out last time, you name it all those things, you know, that you take for granted on a daily basis, it was gone in a second instant.

I can't even imagine. But you know, like, from a professional level, your whole career. You're a chef at kind of the top of your game, you're in the kitchen, you're standing, you're cooking, like, what was that period of? adjustment? Like, you know, you're not going to go back to working in a kitchen, cooking kitchen. How long did that whole recovery process take? And then kind of the process of I guess, figuring out what you're going to do for your career?

Yeah, that was the harsh reality of it. You know, I was just coming off, you know, food and wine best chef. You know, the restaurant that were, you know, my dream restaurant in New York was happening. You know, I left New York, not because I wanted to leave New York, because the opportunity was so great in Philly. I had no intention to leave New York. So for me, going back to New York was like, Yeah, let's do it. I love New York City. You know what I mean? I was never always people like, Oh, my God, I have to stay in New York City, or I'll die. So a lot of those people out there. Like there's no other city out there that that's possible you could live in. For me. Food, why invest in chef, that was like one of my dreams. That was, you know, I work for a chef in New York, who had just recently had had been named Food Wine best chef when I was doing my externship. And I just saw, like, the excitement of it. And you know what that meant, and, you know, New York City, and, you know, these events you would go to, and parties, and I was like, Alright, this is definitely on my list of things I need to accomplish. And I was at the top of my game, and, you know, the future was so bright, and there was no reason that we would think that anything would fail. You know, I mean, we felt that we were so bulletproof. You know, and we felt so confident going into New York City, you know, but the harsh reality of it was is that the leader of that restaurant, especially the kitchen, me, I wasn't going to be I was not going to be a part of that much. You know, we were in the middle of building a restaurant, we couldn't stop, you know, so it still happened. You know, I was definitely part of those conversations early on as far as the menu and working with my team, but we had like, we had to like Hurry up, we like Rush and bring people from Philly, up to up to New York to kind of fill my void. And the restaurant, just it just never was able to catch the steam that we had hoped. My absence was just made it so hard to manage that restaurant from Philadelphia alone. And it's still there, we're, you know, we're actually hopefully going to be selling it soon. You know, it's sort of limped its way through COVID. And, you know, we've had to restructure a little bit. But you know, it's still there, we were really proud of the work we did there, a lot of people worked their asses off for that restaurant, it just that it's hard to replace, like the leader, you know, of that restaurant, I was present. But I was going through rehab, you know, three, four times a week, that most I can spend down there was two or three hours a day, maybe two times a week, three times a week, because also my stamina, my energy level was so low, my voice my voice, I could hardly talk, my voice got much stronger since I injured but the diaphragm was affected, right, which helps you project your voice, and I can, I can hardly even speak above a whisper, you know, so I was going through all these things. Not only that, but just the, you know, just dealing with the agony of the pain of it. And, you know, you're just you're figuring yourself out, it's, it's not any different than essentially learning how to walk again, or crawl or you're essentially an infant, your brain is still there, your mind is still sharp, but your body is you have to relearn every single thing. And some things you're never going to, you're never going to be able to do again. But you know, just the process of learning how to, you know, you're creative, how am I gonna brush my teeth, I'm gonna you know, how to feed myself. You know, I couldn't hardly move my arms. I couldn't even bring my my arm my hand to my mouth. Now I have those that ability. So I've gotten stronger with a lot of rehab and, and exercise. But at the moment, I couldn't even scratched my nose.

And I know you've been very outspoken about depression. How long were you in a dark place?

Yeah, it was it was pretty crazy. I would say the first 18 months was very difficult. And it wasn't only because the injury I was also having a lot of personal issues with my marriage. And it was just this cascade of, you know, constant. Bad news, essentially for that for those those months and At one point, it got very low. I didn't know if I was going, I didn't know if I wanted to live anymore. I didn't know sort of what my plan, my purpose was anymore. I lost my entire purpose as a chef. And, you know, here you go from leading a brigade of chefs into service every night, you know, you're pumping up, you're pumping them up, you're high fiving, you're, you know, you're drinking a beer afterwards, you know, you know, as a great service, you know, good job, we got to ask this kick, but we did it. You know, that camaraderie. That was what that was what I was good at. And I lost my entire purpose, except for my purpose of being a father, to my kid who was three and a half years old at the time, not old enough to remember really much. So if it wasn't for my kid, at the time, I don't know where I'd be right now. And, you know, I knew that it wasn't about me anymore. It wasn't about, you know, what my goals were in life, it wasn't about you, I sort of had to give that up a little bit. And say, you know, what, Eli, get over yourself. Yeah, you lost a lot of opportunities professionally, your career didn't go how you had in mind, if your life isn't going how you had it, in your mind? Like, get over it, because you have a young son who doesn't look at you any differently. You know, for him, it's like, okay, wow, my dad is in a wheelchair, let me ride on it, you know, like, that was cool for him, right? Like, it made zero impact on it, I mean, long term effects of having a father in a wheelchair to be seen, you know, I know that it does, it does have an impact on him. At times, you know, he does get frustrated with it. Me just mentioned the other day, something about it. And, you know, I just had to say, Listen, it's a challenge that life gives you, and you just have to be prepared for those challenges. And, you know, make the most of them. And, you know, I think it will, at some point in his life, he will look back and say, you know, what, I learned so much from that, from that, you know, that time, you know, as a kid with a father in a wheelchair, that maybe is even better than, you know, all the times, I could have tossed him a ball or kick the ball, or, you know, all the things I had, in my mind that I was gonna be as a father.

And being a working chef is tough, especially in high end restaurants. I mean, who knows what your relationship would be, like, if you were the chef in two restaurants in two different cities. I mean, there's a lot of people who get divorced, they don't see their kids grow up, you know, the work life balance is really tough for restaurant chefs. So in that regard, you know, you probably are going to end up having more time with him, especially at this younger age, right?

Without a doubt, I mean, silver lining, it was, it was definitely, that it gave me the opportunity to spend so much more time with him than I would otherwise. You know, as a divorced parent, you know, I have four days to a week, and it's still when he's with me, he's with me. And we're together, you know, otherwise, I would, you know, I still think about, okay, but I really want to, like, create a restaurant concept again, and open it sort of within our own company now. And some of that was more focused on something I wanted to do. And I just don't know if I can trade that time off. I don't know, it's going to take me away from, you know, the time I spend with him. If, if I open my dream restaurant, whatever my dream restaurant is right now, if I was open, that it would take time from him. And I don't know if that's something I want to do.

And you've stayed on with your company as the culinary director. So you've been with them this whole time?

Yes. So without a doubt, I mean, you know, Elon and I are still very close. Since COVID. You know, since our company kind of retracted like a lot of companies did, you know, we were in a growth phase, and we sort of, you know, we, you know, sort of halt that. It's really been great to see the, the people that we have lead in our kitchens, were all there before COVID. And they're all matured now. Like, they don't need my input. They all come in and eat and I'll give them feedback on what they what I had. But, you know, for me, it's allowed me this opportunity to, you know, focus on my podcast, Chef radio podcast, we have another one called delicious city Philly now, but, you know, it's give me this opportunity to kind of completely pivot of what I thought was my, my passion, my purpose, and apply that same, you know, that same desire to what I'm doing now. And, you know, it's been great. It's been a fun ride. I won't say I won't say that podcasting fills that void for me. It really doesn't that void will never be filled. For me. Being a chef. There's just no way I think it's, it's there and I got accepted. Nothing that will take that place because, you know, for the better part of 20 years, I was grinding every day. to reach my goals, you know, you know, I accept that. And, you know, I've sort of moved on from that. It's still an itch that might scratch someday, get back into it more more fully. But at this point, I'm pretty, pretty content doing, I'm doing.

Yeah, I love doing the podcasts, but I still feel that I'm a chef, you know, it'd be great to make more revenue off of this kind of thing and see where that goes. But like, I still want to be out cooking. In some respects, I don't know that. I could stop that completely. So for me, it's a balance. So let's talk about that. Why start a podcast? Amanda, what's the cool thing to do these days? But how come about?

Yes, you're right. There are a lot of podcasts out there. You know, ever since I was injured, it was really hard for me to stay connected to the industry. And I would see chefs maybe like an event or something. But like, sort of that camaraderie that you have between, you know, the chefs in your restaurant group, but also the chefs that, you know, that you might just like, run down to the restaurant, like, before service and say, What's up to, you know, or, you know, for me, it was reconnecting to the industry, and really be able to sit down with these chefs, and get to know them more on just a more personal level, because a lot of them, you know, they're your friends, but you're always working so much, you're not really hanging out outside of work, everybody has their family, every has their, you know, their to do lists after on their days off. So it's not like you're getting together and just like, you know, hitting her out, you know, go and play around, like golf or anything. So the time that we do have to spend together often is, you know, in these sort of small moments, you know, during the day, then pop it in your restaurant saying hi, vice versa. That's, that's really what I was able to do, you know, for me, you know, to sort of reconnect me to these people. And it was, it was great. I sat down, I actually, we started right before COVID, you know, we didn't really know was what was sort of happening, we recorded about four pilot episodes, right before COVID. And so many episodes in here, as Kelly talking about the Oh, what about this cruise ship with all these sick people on it, you know, not knowing exactly what was coming down the pike. So, and then, you know, once COVID hit, it was really an opportunity for chefs to kind of communicate to each other and say, Okay, this is what I'm going through, you know, let me listen to this other chef, and see if this correlates with, with what they're going through. And, you know, there's different challenges. And, of course, COVID was, you know, the first thing we talked about, on probably the first 30 podcasts, but you know, at this point, we're, we're getting through it, and, you know, we're talking about it less, which was great.

It's an interesting time capsule, you know, I was doing my podcasts exclusively in person prior to and I started doing them from home, I started calling them the COVID Zoom sessions, okay, intro and I've left that in there, because I just thought it was going to be this blip of like, you know, maybe four episodes over this month. And it was also a way to say kind of, like, oh, the audio quality maybe sucks, because I'm not using my good mics. And everyone's phones. And just to kind of let people know, these I'm doing virtually. And then when it looked like it was going to be a little extended, I invested in better mics for my home and a better setup and kind of talking people through the process of getting a better recording, because I'm like, how we're going to be doing this for a little longer. But it'll be interesting, you know, going back having that as a recorded thing, talking to these people and what they were going through during that time. Same, you know, I probably had 30 episodes where we're talking about supply chain issues and closing your business and, you know, pivoting which everyone was doing

the pivot, right, it was the word of the Word of the Year pivot.

And then you decided because you have nothing else going you would get involved in a second podcast as well.

Chef radio podcast, that's me and a chef, or me and a couple of chefs, you know, we're talking, it's a one on one interview. And I think a lot of people don't realize podcasting while it does, you can reconnect with people. It's kind of lonely, right? You're doing a lot of the work in a vacuum, you know, you're home, you're doing the editing, and you're doing all the processes to get ready for it. And you don't get lots of feedback. Like as a chef, you cook a plate of food, you put it out in the in, you know, and somebody eats it, and you can watch them right you can watch them Oh, wow. Like I was, I was a voyeur. I love watching my guests eat because, you know, I sort of stare at them, hopefully didn't Creep them out. But, you know, I was I'd watched them and, you know, it was this, you know, I would get feedback immediately. Well, podcasts, you know, get that, you know, some people review. Every out there, please review your podcast, because it does help us it really does give us that feedback that we want. And it does. It does go a long way. So, you know, other than that, you know, podcasting can be kind of lonely. You're a bit of an island. And you know, you have to be self motivated and, and all that to get it done where this other podcast was an excuse for me to get a couple of friends in the studio, and kind of do more of a podcast about the Philadelphia Philadelphia dining scene. So you know, the best things where you've eaten, you know, that's like the best bite as a segment, we have the food news, we have local food journalist that does that. Sarah May, Alana, we have a local radio producer, Marissa McDonough from a local rock station here w MMR, you know that she's like the every person but she loves food, she loves eating, she loves going out drinking bars, all that. So she kind of brings that perspective. So it's the three of us talking about like, where we've eaten, essentially. And we do it every other week, and it's a blast. And that is sort of allowed another itch to be scratched, which is creating, like the social atmosphere within a podcast studio, you're bringing in local celebrities, or bringing local food enthusiast, you know, whatever, you're more creative. And it does have that we've modeled that sort of after like a drivetime radio show would have. So you have these different segments are sort of hard hitting and, and fun and keep it light where you know, Chef radio podcast, that's, that's a little bit more, you know, just talking about the journey, the origin stories and things like that.

It's also great because it kind of highlights local businesses. I think that's really nice when you can kind of give someone a little plug, you know, so to talk about the places that you're loving right now, people are always looking for recommendations. As much as I think everyone knows about x place, you know, you always see people like where's the best place to get pizza? Or, you know, where's the best place to get that pork? You know, sandwich hoagie? Yeah, yeah. Well, what do you want to leave our audience with today? Is there anything you want to throw out there? Before we get out of here? Obviously, they should listen to your PA,

are you? Are you giving me a soapbox here? Yeah, sure, you

know, whatever, whatever you got, I want to make sure that if there's something that we haven't touched on, that you want to get out there, this is your time, whatever. I

think for me, it's you know, we all have our struggles every day, you know, everybody has their personal struggles, everybody's busy, everybody's going through things, you know, anxiety is at an all time high. And for me, about Friday, when I was like 2829 30, you know, I had struggled with anxiety that this feeling, I didn't really know what it was, you know, and love, it turned out to be anxiety and fear of the unknown in my career. And, and just wondering if I was on the right track. And if I was doing the right thing, if I was in the right restaurant, you know, because I was, I was nervous, I was gonna, like, you know, become this mediocre chef. And, you know, for me, you know, I think, in our industry, you know, it's always been this, it's like, the, the toy box, all the broken toys in it, right? Where a bunch of, you know, whether it's a doll missing a head, or, you know, the analogy of a, of a wheel off of a truck, you know, we're all these sort of broken toys in our industry, while it's becoming more professionalized, more than we've ever seen it before, it's a fantastic thing. And we need that, you know, it's always been people that are often dealing with some sort of trauma in their life. And, you know, depression, mental illness, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, like, those things have been rampant or industry for a very long time. For anybody listening out there that is going through something that is extreme challenge, your life doesn't have to be that you're, you're paralyzed, it can be the fact that you're, you know, your car broke down, you can't afford it, whatever it is. And it can be very easy to kind of go down this dark spiral of this is not the way it's supposed to be insert, blaming people and blaming other things. But I think just, you know, keep that positive attitude is so important. Even great podcasts out there, one of them is the positive mindset coach. And just like listening to that, for example, there's so many great resources out there, don't live your life unhappy and feeling like you're the only one going through something, there's going to be somebody that's out there, this is going to be able to help you get through it. And yeah, just you know, preach positivity every day challenge you're going to happen, but just sort of keep your head down and, and find the people who are gonna, you know, care about you and put that put your positive energy there.

We've talked about this a lot, especially in this past year or so, like I've dealt with anxiety. I mean, I was having what turned out to be like panic attacks that I didn't even know I was on acid reflux medicine for 20 years, not realizing that it was not food, you know, they always talk about food and your diet and exercise. And it was anxiety.

Yeah, you know, you said like people going through stuff every day, every day doesn't matter how big or small it is. If it's you, it's a big problem, you know, for you and find ways to cope with it, you know, don't go down this path of, you know, self destructive behavior, which you see so often in our industry, you know, stay on stay on the right side of the line. And, you know, there's a lot of great reasons Sit out there for anybody that's, that's struggling. So, yeah,

thank you for being so open with that. And you know, I can't imagine it's easy talking about I'm sure everyone wants to talk to you about your story with the train and the paralysis. I don't know, does it get easier, the more you talk about, I imagine it's still fairly difficult to get into.

No, because I think it's a great story, I think it's a great story, I'm happy to share it. Unfortunately, a lot of people who, who have an injury, this catastrophic, you know, the, they lose their purpose in life, they lose it, and very, it can be very, very difficult. And, you know, for anyone out there that I can, you know, be a resource for or, you know, if I can make one person's day a little bit better or brighter based on my experiences, you know, I think that's, that's something that I wouldn't be able to do otherwise. I think it also changed me, you know, I think, at that moment in my career, you know, I felt I was invincible. And for me, it kind of brought me back down to earth and what's important, and, you know, focus, focus on focus on the important things in life, which are, you know, family, friends, and, you know, work and your passion is important. And you should foster that, especially if your love for what we do.

I look forward to following along, I think you're gonna be a continued voice in the culinary industry, and, and probably more impactful with the work you're doing now. So, and everyone should go listen to both of your podcasts anyplace else you wanna direct our listeners to,

you can find chef radio or delicious city, anywhere you find your podcasts. You look up my Instagram, and all those links will be there. Chris, I can't say enough, is really a pleasure to talk with you. And thank you for giving me an opportunity to come on your show. I'm sort of a chef without a restaurant. In a way I have restaurants but I don't really have restaurant so I guess I fall somewhere in there.

You most definitely do. Right? Amen. All right. Thanks again. And to all of our listeners. This has been Chris with the Chefs Without Restaurants podcast, have a great week. Go to chefs without restaurants.org. To find our Facebook group, mailing list and check database. The community is free to join. You'll get gig opportunities, advice on building and growing your business and you'll never miss an episode of our podcast. Have a great week.