Philadelphia Chef David Pollack and His Non-Profit Organization Cooking Without Kidneys

This is Episode 36 of the chef's without restaurants podcast. On this week's episode, we have David Pollack. David is a chef in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. After undergoing kidney failure and being on dialysis for a number of years, they've finally received a kidney transplant. Now he's starting a nonprofit organization called cooking without kidneys currently David's sharing recipes on his YouTube channel, website and Facebook Live. He's trying to help people who are in similar situations learn how to be better cooks. I'll put all his contact information in the show notes. But if you'd like to check out his website, you can go to cooking without kidneys.wordpress.com or just do a Google search for cooking without kidneys and you'll probably find his social media pages. And if you enjoy the show, have ever received a job through one of our referrals have been a guest been given complimentary chefs without restaurant swag, or simply want to help please consider donating to our Venmo it can be found@venmo.com forward slash CHEFWORE s to s. Any help would be much appreciated. And feel free to let us know if you have any questions. Thanks so much and have a great week. Hey everybody, this is Chris and this is the chef at restaurants podcast, I'm doing the show today via zoom with a good friend of mine, David Pollock. Hey, Dave, how are you doing?

Okay, Chris, what's going on Brother,

you know, trying to keep saying here in the time of quarantine, but doing pretty well. So I want to have you on for a while for our listeners, Dave and I go back about 25 years. He was one of my roommates in college. We were in each other's weddings and so forth. So I've known Dave a long time. Dave is a Johnson and Wales graduate like myself, and has done a lot of interesting things. And now he's got his own organization that he's starting. So I wanted to have him on the show and talk a little bit about that. So Dave, why don't you give a quick little intro about yourself and what you're doing?

So like you said, I've known you since college when rocks were soft. Yeah. 1995 Yeah, yeah, seriously. So No need since college, was working out my read through the ranks in restaurants and got really sick and having kidney failure going on dialysis, spent four and a half years on dialysis. And, you know, now I'm a nine year recipient. So, essentially what I decided to do was take the knowledge that I learned through going through the process of dialysis, and apply it to helping people who are going through it themselves and create a show on Facebook Live called cooking without kidneys, which I should also share on my Instagram and Twitter and, you know, just kind of spreading it around because really, it's all about just helping people who are going through those issues, and helping out not just helping them to survive, but thrive and be able to do different and interesting things with food

And you've been talking about This for it seems like at least five years, I think. But I think this is the past couple months, you've really gotten serious with pushing this forward.

Yeah, so I started with my WordPress site, which is still up and I'm still posting the recipes to that. And back in 2014 Actually, I started it. And I The reason that I remember is because the time I stopped was when I got phone call from a buddy of mine found out three of my friends who were on dialysis all died within a week. So it was just one of those deals of too much too heavy too soon. And so I stopped for a while and now I just got back into it probably by, say two months ago.

So what are you focusing on right now? I know you're doing some live videos with cooking and stuff. I've seen a couple of your recipes on the website. Is there something one singular thing you're kind of focusing on? Are you just trying to get all the info out there for people to see right now?

You know, I really just kind of want to get the info out there. But I also want to give people base recipes that they could take and create from and do different things with, you know, and alternatives because I mean, the biggest problems when you're on dialysis is potassium, sodium phosphorus are your three major ones and potassium is a big one.

So what are some of the ingredients you can't be eating or you need to limit when you're on this kind of diet?

So when I was on dialysis, now everybody has their own separate issue. Some people have sodium issues, some people have phosphorus, some people have potassium. You know, some people have problems with all three. Personally, I had my issue was potassium. Couldn't keep it under control. So I ended up staying away from potatoes, tomatoes, citrus, dark leafy greens, except kale, stone fruits, you know, including avocados, you know, peaches, they were all high legumes, beans. No one can of beans has like over like 600 milligrams of potassium in it and that's dangerous.

Sounds like a lot of healthy foods you can't eat

you know, to a point, I mean, then there are things that you can so you know, later on today I'm actually going to be doing making not fo but more or less doing like an Asian noodle dish. I'm essentially going to be doing glass noodles with soft boiled egg. scallions with peppers, and I'm going to have some slice steak in there. You know, it's going to be a few it's going to it's going to be really going up really nice rich stock in there also.

So what's your long term goal for the organization? What are you really looking to do besides providing information?

You know, I want to actually turned us into a into a national if not international nonprofit, where it's all about educating education, helping people who are going through issues, maybe not just dialysis, but being diabetics on dialysis or you know, having heart issues and being on dialysis, you know, all these different things, you know, change the diet that you could be on, some are more limiting than others. It'd be kind of neat to actually put that challenge out there to other chefs and do demonstrations and competitions through the organization, you know, and do it as a nonprofit, that kind of like putting money towards research for diabetics or National Kidney Foundation, diabetic foundation.

So are you working with any organizations right now?

As it stands, I am not I am. Actually, I put the feelers out with my old dialysis unit that I was part of putting the feelers out with Christiana Care They're testing out recipes taking a look at. So far, I've gotten nothing but good reviews, you know, especially on the content on the videos, because there's a lot of times I'll say, this worked for me because of this, or I'm adding this to it now because I have a Canadian can. But here are alternatives if you can't.

So you're working with a dietitian or anyone in that kind of field to review recipes

and such. I'm actually in conversation with my dietitian from from my transplant team, mostly right now. She's kind of going online and reviewing my recipes. And I've started the conversation with her about being on my board with the nonprofit as I form it, you know, and I'm just looking to build and really just kind of like create a national movement where demonstrations and competitions can happen all across the US, you know, so that way we can really get the word out there and You know, as a chef being a limited to, this is all you can use versus you have a plethora of things you can, you know, kind of makes it more interesting kind of gives it is the challenge a whole different, you know, puts it all in a whole different light.

I love the idea of cooking competitions. I think that sounds fun, almost like a chopped or something, you know, because you're so restricted in the the foods you can use. So that sounds like a great idea.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, absolutely.

And I think that's something you could even start right now. Maybe there's a way to put it out there and see if people while they're home could work on developing recipes and kind of doing like a virtual chopped. And I'm just kind of spitballing here, but that that might be something that would work right now.

Could potentially do something like that. I've actually I was given a suggestion. Obviously I'm not following up on it right now. Not until this thing kind of, you know, not so much it. I don't think COVID 19 going to go away. But until it blows, until it gets to a point where we're able to be social, again, I'm in conversation with a church about, you know, bringing doing demonstrations there, and just really starting to build.

So what are the big things you're working on right now?

So the big things, mainly I'm working on is just getting the word out there putting content out there. Just really showing people that even though I, even though when you're going through it, you're limited on your diet you really can create from it, that the limits that are on what you can eat are not the limits on what you can do with what you can eat.

And is there any benefit to eating any of these recipes or diets for someone who doesn't have any kind of restrictions? Like I don't have any kind of diet restriction, but are there any pros or cons to me say following one of these recipes and making one of these dishes?

You know what I am I can honestly say I don't know, you know, I know that you know your you'll greatly reduce the amount of potassium greatly increase the amount of protein that you're taking in, you know through some of these recipes because the the biggest thing is when you're on dialysis, it doesn't just pull the bad out of your blood, but it also pulls good. So extra protein minerals, that kind of deal all comes out with all of the creatine and toxins and excess potassium when you're on the machine.

So are you working with any other chefs to develop recipes?

Uh, you know what, not at this point in time, I'm in conversation with a couple of different chefs started work with a couple different my old chef from Cuba Libre from way back in the day from 2001 Guiellermo Veloso, so and I were in conversation and he's actually you know, reviewing the actual diets and starting to look at some of his recipes and seeing how he can adapt them. Eric Shelton is another one that we went to college with me and him are in conversation.

So let's go back to your background a little bit. You know, I think it's interesting. You've been a chef, and in the food world, you know, since you were a teenager working in restaurants, what was it like, when you were still cooking and working as the whole, I guess process of kidney failure was happening. You know, I have the benefit of having known you and know the story, but what was it like when you know, you were kind of at the top of your game, working really hard in Philadelphia, in some of the best restaurants and then all of a sudden you couldn't perform the way you're used to? What was that like for you?

It was rough because I knew I was able to do it. You know, I mean, I went from being a sous chef at Cafe Gelato down Newark, Delaware. I was actually the job I held after Cuba Libre. And working as a saucier at Cuba Libre. Doing the 60, 70, 80 hour weeks and running around that kitchen, that kitchen. It was great. You know, there days I really missed that. I missed that adrenaline mess. That rush. I miss, you know, there's a lot of it that a lot of parts of that they actually miss. But I can tell you that as I was on the downhill slide, so so was my physical ability to keep up. You know, it's not that I didn't have the know how it's that physically my body was just slowing down. I could not push past even though I work to push past a certain point I you know, and once I got on the machine, even though I was great, there were still days I just couldn't do the job because, well, let's just say that I kind of took it out.

Well, what's the process of going through dialysis like for those who have no idea, you know, how long is it? What is that like?

So if you're on dialysis, you're looking at three days a week unless you're doing there's two kinds of dialysis. There's one that you do at home and then there's a there's the Hema, Hema, which you do, actually at a site now and you could actually do chemo But you actually need a whole separate like clean, sanitized room for it specifically just for that. So it's hard to do at home. So, but when you're going through dialysis, literally, they're taking blood out one side and put it right back in. Either through catheters a shunt or fistula and officialize actually, when they use your own bodies, your own arteries and veins to create a port, but essentially, can't talk about really what it feels like because it's kind of like you really do kind of feel like it's a part of you being ripped off. I can't describe it any other way.

Yeah, but it's a long process. And I know you didn't have a car at the time so you're having to get on the bus and go to your location and then you were there for how many hours

they started me at four and a half hours and we cut it back to three and a half hours because it was just, it was just doing too much. It was taking too much out of me. I literally would get on Tuesday's were my worst days, because you'd go three days a week, either Monday, Wednesday, Friday or Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. And I ended up Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday is going at five in the morning to about 830. You know, nine o'clock and it there were times that was just rough. It's just a rough process to be at it's, it's no place I would ever want to see anyone that I know end up in.

Were you still able to work on the days that you had a treatment?

In the beginning, I always said that the first day of dialysis I would not work just because that was the worst. It was the hardest. You know, you go you have two days in between there where you're not on the machine at all. So your body's on those days, I go to dialysis, go home and I would pass out on the couch.

You know, but you're going on Saturday and Saturdays traditionally like the busiest restaurant day so were there Saturdays that you went out to treatment and then went into work. Oh, all the time.

That sounds crazy. Oh, yeah, I wasn't, I wasn't your average dialysis patient. I worked 40 to 60 hours a week. I went to the gym four days a week. I didn't smoke. I wasn't a drinker. I didn't have diabetes. I know No, no hypertension, none of the I was not the typical dialysis patient. And yet, I put myself in the hospital twice with potassium poisoning nearly killing myself. You know, I would there were just times where I just didn't have it in me to get things done. And because of the grueling work week, I would only be able to hold on to a job for anywhere from six months to maybe the year before I bought he was just so burnt and broken that I couldn't keep up anymore.

Are you working at Chifa for Jose Garces, at the time, if my memory serves, that's where you were, and then maybe Garcia's Trading Company.

Yeah, so I did part time at Garcia's trading company and I was at Chifa, I was there for about a year round abouts. You know, I really hung in there to the best I could. I just, you know, physically, just physically, my body just broke down to a point where it just couldn't keep up.

So are you going to be doing a cookbook? What? What's your plan? I know you're putting everything out on social media and sharing recipes is great. Do you have a cookbook in the works? Or is that something you've thought about?

So actually, the recipes that are going up on the blog right now will actually end up in a book. And as this grows, and we start doing demonstrations and competitions, the chefs who are there their recipes that they're using, you know, their ideas, their thoughts are all actually going to be part of like a smaller version of that book. At each event, you know, and I'll probably put out just one large one once a year.

Do you have a favorite recipe or two that are appropriate for People who are going through dialysis or having kidney issues what's your what's your go to?

I have really did have to go twos. You know, the first one was, I would make literally it's tomato-less marinara you know using roasted red peppers instead. And the flavor of it with all the herbs and everything else it actually would taste like you actually had a marinara that with meatballs or turning that into a bolognese or you know, that was that was one of my go to because it's so simple. You know, I would always have roasted peppers in my fridge, I would always have you know, potato soaking things of that nature. So, I used to do tacos lot I would do, you know, just some very bait and then there are some things out that would be long term, you know, I would actually do you know, raised like a lamb and things of that nature. That worked out really nice and I won't be able to do is I would be able to the night before Set it up, put it into the fridge that the next day, throw it into the oven 250 to 75 and let it go all day. By the time I felt ready to pull it out of the oven that like four o'clock in the afternoon, I could pull it out when we pull the bones out and fall right apart. And it was just such. It's literally at the time what my body craves.

How long did it take to adjust to cooking to this style for you? Was it easy for you? Or was it a lot of work?

In the beginning it was a lot of work because there are things that you just miss. You know, when it's the one time that really sticks out my mind. I really put myself in the hospital. I literally had a day we had a day, went to dialysis on Saturday. Sunday got up, went to work. walked in, start eating some fried plantations, some avocado, melon, citrus, everything I wasn't supposed to tomatoes when I ate everything. I wasn't supposed to You know, went out to dinner with my wife that night her not knowing why I've eaten throughout the day I actually made myself I actually had a real cheese with avocado and tomato with tomato bisque. So literally I woke up Monday morning with 104 fever and went to the hospital. My potassium was a couple that that they injected to death row and

What was that that they did?

I had so much potassium in my blood or from what I ate in one day, that it was double that what they inject into a death row inmate

Is how they killed death row inmates, with potassium?

that Yeah, potassium sulfide or potassium chloride something like that. injected and anything over seven parts per million is is I got lucky. I really did get lucky with that.

So what's been the reception so far? Have you heard from people Like, are you building your community and finding people you don't even know? Are there? Like when you publish to Facebook? Are you getting new fans and followers who know nothing about you and just have found your page or site? Or is it still so new that it's really mostly people who already know, you

No, actually, I'm actually up to about 300 followers on Facebook. Essentially, what I've been doing is I've been every other week, I'm running an ad, and I'm changing out those ads every week, just to kind of build just to build growth, build the awareness of it, you know, I'm also crossing it over onto Instagram gained a lot of followers through that as well as through through my Twitter feed also, it right now where I'm really looking for the feedback is on the WordPress and that that really hasn't been, you know, really hasn't shown up there yet.

Dude, it's so hard. My website. I've had for 10 years, I don't know, I've had like five comments on my website in like 10 years like, it's just don't expect that to happen. It doesn't mean people aren't going and aren't reading. But the feedback coming from the website, in my experience has been non existent. And I think it's just the changing landscape of social media and the internet. I mean, I used to do a post on my website, and then would just submit the link on a Facebook and say, Hey, I have a new recipe, go here. If people are already into Facebook, they don't want to leave Facebook. And I find that it's just better to also post the whole content right within Facebook or Instagram and I play around with that a little bit. It's great to have the website there for the general public because there's always going to be people who don't go to Facebook and your website shows up in search results and SEO. So that's good, but I find that the interaction and engagement within social media Via platforms is great. You know, today I posted a photo of some tortillas that I made last night. And I've had 20 plus comments on that, and people saying, Can you share the recipe? And what did you do, and I've been dming recipes to people all day and talking about it. And I'm having an interaction that I would never have on a website post. And I just posted the photos of the tortillas and the recipe on the website. I think people would see it, but putting it out on Facebook, people are commenting, they're sharing, they're engaging. And I just think that that's the way things are going. But I do still think that having a website where you're posting that is a great idea. It's almost like your online journal, you know?

Well, it's an online journal, but it's also the basis for the book. You know, knowing that a lot of people are not really going to visit the site or people will visit the site, not really leave comments really kind of built into I could take every recipe, all the stories I'm putting on the site, the whole nine yards, and condense it all down into 15 You're 100 page book with a bunch of different recipes, different ideas, and use that to help support cooking without kidneys. So what's next?

Anything new or just double down on the things you're already doing? Do you have other things? Is there a phase two that you're going to move into, once you kind of get a handle on what you're already doing?

Yeah, so phase two is actually going to start going to start to grow into being doing demonstrations and competitions. Going going into the more social aspect of things when this kind of, you know, right now is all about just building the base, and really just introducing people to the concepts and ideas of how to have not just to survive, but thrive while on dialysis. The next phase is like really taking it to the public and, you know, putting out there to local like, I'm just going to start in Philadelphia local dialysis groups. Local transplant units, laying them know that we are going to start doing demonstrations and competitions reaching out to fellow chefs. Like you, if you want to come up and do a demonstration if you had an idea, you know, and also to start having guys on the show, like I said, below, so Eric, you all have said that you are interested in it. And that's exactly what I want to do. I don't want to be a show where we're just in like, in a set stage kitchen, I want to be in a kitchen that people you know, get is like your home kitchen. So it'd be literally coming over to your place. You know, we sat we record we talk about the recipes that we're working on and what we're building and what you're, what the base is of it. And then, you know, you would just do it as a Facebook Live. Put it out there like a week ahead of time and, you know,

think that's a great idea. What about a podcast? Would you do a podcast? Or is it Do you think it's more visual? Like, is there a way that some of this can live within a podcast as well? Yeah,

I like the visual.

I mean, cooking is very visual. So that makes sense. Yeah, I'm obviously a chef. So that's visual. But I did find a way to kind of do a podcast like, I don't know, maybe interviewing kidney transplant recipients, survivors and have them tell their story is like a, you know, an accessory piece to the organization? I don't know. Just thinking aloud. Maybe there's only so many hours in a day.

Yeah, exactly. And no, honestly, I would rather spend them in front and working with and showing and just really kind of opening people's eyes because they can, because when people can see it can smell it can taste it. You know, then they're made, they're more willing to try it and more willing to do it.

They can't smell and taste it through a video though.

No, but they can at least see it. See, that's the thing, they can at least see it and they can try it themselves. They know where to find the recipes.

So how has the COVID-19 pandemic impacted you on the business side? Like, has this done anything? Has this slowed you down? For what you've wanted to do? Or has it given you more time to focus on things, like what's the impact on you been as far as it relates to the cooking without kidneys?

You know what the impact is, and that is given me more time to work on it. I don't have to think about my job because I'm currently in that wonderful boat that a lot of other people are in and unemployed. You know, collecting unemployment. And because of that, because I have a little bit coming in, I could just concentrate on this, you know, as, as well as coffee, which we're not going to discuss today, but You know, you know, my I have also my side business too, that that brings in a little bit too, so I can work on expanding on that. So it's just, it's given me more time to work towards the goals that I have in mind.

So you have a job and two side hustles mad respect, mad respect, no rest for the weary for sure. I think I'm going to jump into our speed round which we've modified a little bit here and, you know, I like to have a little fun with it. So, knowing that you are going to be potentially self quarantining for a week or two, what are some things that you went to stock up your pantry with? So that you would have to cook with and feed yourself and your wife, you know, without having to go to the grocery store for another two weeks.

So that was a lot more of the rices and couscous. You know, amaranth, starches and also proteins as well. You know, My wife's allergic to pork. So we picked up chicken sausage. You know, we picked up the chicken. We picked up some more fish, salmon and shrimp and things of that nature. So really kind of stocked it up with, you know, I mean, obviously we we have a Food Saver. No. So we cryovac everything, put it in the freezer, so that way it keeps better.

Yeah, and that's essentially what we've done.

What's the weirdest meal you've made since you've been stuck at home?

Define weird.

What's something that maybe you made that you wouldn't have made on a normal day but you ended up making because you're trying to use up something you had in your pantry or had limited ingredients.

So I made us Mexican lasagna. We had corn tortillas that were frozen. Bought fresh from Italian market A while back I just left in my freezer and literally we laid about I did some homemade salsa you know we have black beans I one pound of ground beef left yeah and just did a combination thereof I had a block of shredded cheese that was starting to go so we use that block of cheddar dice shred it down and use that I mean literally like you know it was one of those oh look here I have this let's use that.

That sounds delicious. What is what is salsa look like? Are you uh no tomato salsa then?

yeah for so actually with the without when I was on dialysis. Now obviously this one I did not do dialysis friendly here at home. But when I was on dialysis, I would actually make a salsa Verity because tomatillos they're related to gooseberries. gooseberries are actually low potassium. You know, so I would have used those. I would have done it more towards the question. Caribbean and use pineapple in it, you know, can't use a coconut, that's actually really high phosphorus. But you know, it just would have been it just it just would have been different roasted peppers and pineapple and with the ground beef, or would not have been beans in it, you know, or I would have limited the amount of beans in it. And I probably would have limited the amount of potassium that I had to just that one meal, you know, or if I knew I was if I knew the next day was dialysis, I would have made sure that that was the last thing I had that day that had a potassium in it at all, knowing that was going to get filtered out the next one. So yeah, I I there were things I would have done different.

Do you have any chefs that you admire? It could be either like a quote unquote celebrity chef or someone you've worked with in love, Like who? Who's your inspiration in the food industry?

So I've got to give my props to Guiellermo Veloso. So I work With him for three and a half, almost four years at Google, he great to meet him. I was a saw ca and, you know, I learned so much just by working with him. Um, Jose Garces, you know, just the amount of seriousness he had for his food he has for his food and just his ideas and how he wants things to be and how exact you know, I mean, that that was that was really out. And even though I couldn't keep up, it was a lot of fun just to try to just work there, you know, try to try to put the work in to keep up.

What about culinary resources? Do you have any books that you continually go back to or websites or anything cooking related to keep you inspired or informed?

So right now, I'm rewatching Chef's Table. You know, on Netflix, I'm all also if I if I'm struggling for an idea, I'm looking for some I'm looking to convert for cooking without kidneys I'll either use all recipes calm, or I'll use Epicurious you know, because I can all there's all you can always find something out there um you know mind of a chef is another one also that I found and I was able to I'm starting to rewatch that two

Lots of watching TV while we're stuck at home right?

Yeah, you know, I try to limit it though. I limit it I limit it to about, you know, an hour, maybe two depending on what it is.

What is the best meal you ever had? And I know that's a tough one because I don't even know that I have one. Do you have one that sticks out or one that's especially memorable?

You know, as far as best meals that I don't have one that stands out, however, for a memorable would have to be when my wife and I were in Vegas for the other business that were part of, you know, the coffee business that wer're part of and realized that Marc Vetri opened a restaurant within the hotel we were staying at, and we walked in, you know, literally in jeans and a T shirt, because we're at a hotel, so why not? And I, you know, I've actually into a seminar with Jeff, and I've met Mark once, you know, so I don't know them, but I know of them. And I really wanted to say what kind of events they've been just by watching what Marc's been doing and Jeff's business sense. So, but neither one were there that day. So we ended up sitting down and said, let's just gain appetizers we got so they just sent out so many different things. That we ended up having a phenomenal full meal.

It's crazy to come from Philadelphia to go to Vegas to Have a super memorable meal and a Mark Vetri restaurant that's not in Philadelphia.

Yeah, exactly. It was crazy.

And what do you want to be remembered for?

Giving back? You know, I know that. I know that cooking without kidneys is all about, you know, giving back. I don't want to be known for building that restaurant Empire. I want to be known for just, you know, giving back to the community that I'm part of. I still say that I'm part of because even though I'm a nine year kidney recipient, there's always a possibility that I could lose that tomorrow. I'll be right back to square one again.

Wow, that's pretty deep.

Yeah.

So what can our listeners do? I mean, I'm gonna put a lot of links in the show notes. Is there anything you want from them or anything you want? To know, any parting words for our listeners,

you know, for any of the chefs that want to get involved that want to help develop recipes, you know, have input on it and, and help to form the nonprofit. You know, obviously, I would want you guys to contact me through WordPress, or through or through, DM me through Instagram, you know, or Facebook, it doesn't matter, you know, get in contact with me, we'll work on something, if you're looking to be on on the Facebook Live, you know, let me know and we could definitely do something with that. If anyone's looking to support and help you know, obviously right now, you know, it's financial resourcing is where I'm at. So anyone that wants to help with the, you know, contribute to it financially. Give me a call. That's a conversation we could have.

Well, I know you've got the Cookingwithoutkidneys.wordpress.com

Yep, yep, that's all one cooking without kidneys is all one word, no hashtags, no slashes nothing.

Awesome. Well, I'll put all the info in the show notes so we can get people to find where you're at. I love that you've gone all into Twitter. I'm a big Twitter fan. I see you on Twitter all the time now, which is so ridiculous because you and I have been talking about Twitter for a decade. And it's nice to see you kind of getting in there. So I love it.

Yeah, it just takes me a while to get started. But once I get started, I'm all in.

I know you're not a tech guy. You're not a social media guy. I know. It's tough. It's where you got to be. So I feel you I know how hard this must be for you. And I'm loving watching it.

Yeah, and what I've been told from everyone who's watching my videos is that I'm definitely an in-front of the camera kinda guy. I'm good in front of the camera.

I think Have the camera. Yeah, I jumped into your liver coding live the other night, but uh, I had something else. I think I had to jump off to cook dinner for my family or something. But I really enjoyed watching that. Thanks so much for coming on the show. And for all our listeners. As always, you can find us at chefs without restaurants.org and calm and on all social media platforms at Chester that restaurants and you can send me an email at chefs without restaurants@gmail.com. Thanks and have a great week. Thanks for listening to the chef's without restaurants podcast. And if you're interested in being a guest on the show, or sponsoring the show, please let us know. We can be reached at chefs without restaurants@gmail.com Thanks so much. Transcribed by https://otter.ai