PolyScience Chef and Marketing Coordinator David Pietranczyk on Modern Kitchen Equipment, Impostor Syndrome and Virtual Conferences

Welcome, everyone. This is Chris with the Chefs Without Restaurants podcast. Today I have Dave Pietranczyk with me. He is the chef and product expert at Breville PolyScience. Hey, how's it going?

Doing great. Thanks for having me.

Thanks for coming on the show. I guess you and I hav probably known each other for five or six years now, way back from the StarChefs congress.

Probably even longer than that. I've been with PolyScience seven or eight years. The congress at the pier was my first year of StarChefs. So that was like, seven years ago. Something like that.

Yeah. I think everyone who was at that one remembers it. There were some great chefs that year and some really great things. But it had its challenges before they moved over to Brooklyn.

Definitely. I didn't know better than. It was my one of my very first trade shows that I did with PolyScience. And I didn't know what to expect. But there were definitely things that went wrong. Like there were some problems with power and water that. We were at the pier util, I think, like 3am setting up, and had to be back there at eight It was a challenge. We made it happen though.

Did you remember Rich Rosendale doing a sous vide workshop? Were you guys involved with that at that time? Was that a PolyScience workshop?

I don't know. At that time, my role was different. I was a low level thug. Back in those days, I was just a wee fella. And I think Gelabo was involved at that time, before they started doing like one brand has exclusivity over a category. So it might have been, might not have been. The thing that I recall vividly about that year was Sam Mason and Johnny Iuzzini. They were Doing a Waring demo. They're friends of mine, but I still am a fanboy of theirs. I love Johnny and I love Sam. And they were doing these ice cream balls. They made a s'mores ice cream. And then with liquid nitrogen, they froze chocolate, marshmallows, graham crackers, and then they slowly pulverize it into a powder. And then they took this smores ice cream and kind of rolled it in these in these things. I think they were just serving that in a ball on a stick. I can't recall. But it was absolutely delicious. Just seeing them work was really cool.

I believe the did both a workshop and a mainstage. And I did the workshop. I remember the workshop was dark because it was one of those days that they had lost power at the pier. So half of my photos from that year didn't come out because everything was pitch dark because they had no power there.

Yeah, that sounds that sounds about right. I remember it might have been in the class, but Sam did this sandwich bread ice cream. And he had it in a mold in the shape of a slice of bread. And then pull the vacuum on it in a vacuum canister. So it stayed aerated, and then put it in the freezer. So what you ended up with was sandwich bread flavored ice cream in the shape and look and texture of sandwich bread. And then he put like peanut butter and jelly and peanut butter and jelly ice cream in between it. I was like, well, that's smart. That was really cool.

So what exactly do you do at PolyScience? You're the chef and the product expert. I mean, I've interacted with you a lot. At StarChefs, you're kind of the guy who's in all the workshops when your equipment's being used. You're definitely a specialist. So what does your job encompass there.

I don't know if we have enough time to get that in one day.So the way it started is, is that when we wrote the cookbook for, um, before we came on with rebel Phillips cookbook immersed. I had just gotten a DSLR and we're trying to figure out figure out how we were going to pull this thing off. And I was like, Well, if I'm doing the rest, if I'm, you know, working on these recipes and stuff, I might as well photograph them and such. And then it came out. Okay. And then the next time we needed something, it was all could you do that? Could you do that? Could you do that? Could you do it? I'm not gonna say no, you know, like, of course I can't I'm a yes man. Yo, I, they asked me I'm gonna get it done. Or I'm gonna I'm gonna figure out how to get it done. So my my proficiencies in the Adobe Suite, kind of expanded over time to InDesign illustrator, Lightroom, Photoshop, premiere, after effects, audition and all of these things. So um, my skill set as a creative, I use that I do a lot of our marketing stuff. We work with a bunch of third party content houses and also design agencies and things like that. There's always things that need tweaking or things that need adjusting. So that'll fall to me. And usually I'll brief them in on whatever that asset we need is anyway. Um, so I work I work in Marketing in that way. And then I'm also serve as a product expert. I use the products I was a chef for, do you think I think was 10 years? Oh, I was a temp for 10 years, you know, doing the white white jacket, you know, top thing for a while, and I was a big fan of poly science. I use the products there. And then when I came on, onboard, I've kind of made it my responsibility to know everything there was to know about all the poly science products. Still to this day. I'm working on behind the scenes on new product that's coming out current product supporting product that we don't even make anymore. So I'm both product expert. I'm a trained chef. And then also,

I work in a marketing capacity as well. That's quite a background. I mean, I don't think there are many dual chef marketers out there that were the chef hat first. And now I've really gotten into the marketing. I mean, obviously, I have my own podcast now but not something that comes naturally to me I kind of have been learning on the fly, but it seems like you're very competent at being able to do both of those roles.

I think you are as well though, like, cuz I mean, so you do this right. But you also do your writing, you also have your photography, you you also have you know, your, your events and stuff that you do. Um, so I think it's really much the same I have needed is to be able to swim and a big company like crows a big company, right? Like they're half a billion dollars, right? So be able to swim in that sea. I had to get really, really good at what I did, because, you know, they had they work with these massive companies and and such on these really high level projects that then they Producing very high level marketing assets, I needed to be able to do that, or I was gonna be you, you don't do that anymore. And I didn't want to lose control of that. So it was like, Alright, I just had a button up my sleeves and up my game. So it was you know, every day, every day I try to learn one thing about Photoshop or Illustrator or premiere that I didn't know before, how to mask things, how to color great things, whatever it is, I tried to learn one new skill set today.

Did you have any background in marketing advertising, photography, writing? Was there any like college courses that you did or zero buddy, really,

there are 100 sets I came to I came to paly science cursing like a sailor and have a very, very low social skills. And obviously I cook but those weren't the skill sets that were necessary on my desk. Um, so it was it was a long road of self teaching, but that's cool because I I enjoy I enjoy learning everything that I can. So I'm It was a tough road, a long road, but I, I enjoy it.

I enjoy doing what I do. I know a lot of people hate it, but like, building my own website, I didn't, I didn't have the money to begin with. But I actually enjoyed the process of like, okay, I've never built a website, let's get a WordPress account and figure out how this works. And then learn SEO and you know, read a bunch of blog posts and watch some videos. And now with the podcasting, like the first podcast sound like garbage, like they did, like, I didn't know anything about audio engineering, I know anything about microphones, and you just learn, and you spend a lot of time and I'm trying to make every show sound better, look better, and figure out all that stuff. And I enjoy that. I know a lot of people don't, they would rather just hire someone to do that kind of stuff. But I love the learning process. So and I don't and I think you know, I've run large kitchens. I never want to know less about something than one of my employees. Even though as the chef, I wanted to make sure I was also the Best Bartender that I was like the best front of the house manager even though that that wasn't my day to day job. I wanted to make sure that I knew how to bartend better than my lead bartender. You know

There's some times where I look at like what I'm doing and I kind of just stopped for a second I say, why am I doing this? How did I get involved in this? And it's just because I, I get myself into things because I do I want to learn everything. I want to be good at everything.

And I know pre COVID you were traveling a lot, what percentage? What percentage of your time was was dedicated to traveling and then what does that look like now?

Now is non existent. So that's an easy question to answer before that is a tough question. So, um, how much of my time I've met I can't really complain. Because I know I know a lot of guys who are on the road way more than me, so I can't complain like Mercer culinary as an example. Those guys, I forget the gentleman's name, but he lives here in Chicago as well. And he travels I think he said like 200 and Sundays a year he's not home and I'm like, how could you even manage that man, but I do try. I do a lot of ups and downs. So like, I support all of our distribution partners, so whether it's a Cisco webstaurant, store trademark, bargain Ellingson, it any mod for anywhere that you can buy our products, I'll fly there, show up the day before. If I'm lucky, they have one, somebody on the inside who will do like some grocery shopping and you know, I'll send them a requisition list and you know, they'll take care of that. Most of the times, that's not the case. So I'll fly in really early, do grocery shopping, go there, prep, go over my presentation the night the night before, show up in the morning and finish any of these in class, do a presentation, talk business with the sales people for a while, clean everything up and then hop a plane back and I do a lot of that like there are times I'll do that like twice a week. Um, and then there's slow periods where I don't do it for like a month but then I'll be gone for like five days or even like up to two weeks. So, when I was in New York last I think I had been, I think the way it went was like I was in it. I was in Milan, Italy at a trade show. That was pretty grueling. It was a five day trade show, which is just bananas. And there was a day of traveling either end setup and teardown on either side of that. I was home for two days. And then I was in Germany for another stretch of like, six days. And then I was home for like three days and went to New York, New York for like four days for the same thing. And after that, I took a vacation because like it's just it can be insane. Are you enjoying the break? Yeah, I it comes in waves like today I was actually feeling a bit nostalgic. I was talking to one of my former colleagues and I was like, Hey, I miss sleeping in like a you know a hotel and do it and you know, grabbing dinner at the local wherever that we can find and you know, doing a presentation first thing in the morning and like scrambling to the airport like I kind of missed that before. A little bit. But yeah, of course, I'm happy to be home. I'm happy to take care of my lawn, and you know, cook my own meals and just be with my wife and I'm very happy for that.

Just so weird. No restaurant shows this year at the Javits Center, no restaurant show in Chicago. Nothing but such an amazing time. I was at the Philly chef conference in March and it was like March 1, and second and it was just as things were getting weird, you know, like, yes. So it was something that maybe was in other countries. We're starting to see here, but I still went there. I was hugging people, you know, they they had food there and you're sharing plates of food with strangers and, and then yes, right after that, like that. Was it that like that was the last thing that I did. That was big. You know that. Then the next two weeks I had to work. And I look back, I'm like, wow, the fellowship conference is yours. Probably like the last trade show I'm going to have been at in quite a long time.

Yeah. The Javits Center, we didn't go to for international restaurant food service, New York. I think is what that show is. But I heard it was very slow. But the people who were there wanted to be there, right? Like people knew things were starting, it was starting to get weird people knew there was a thing happening. So the people who were there wanted to be there. So from what I understand from other manufacturers that that we talked to and friends in the industry, it was still a decent show, but very low foot traffic, then NRA didn't happen at all. A lot of people are doing these virtual trade shows, which we haven't participated in yet. And I, I don't know if I'm on board with like, part of going to a trade show is being at the trade show and seeing things. And the digital experience is not the same like it. You can't I mean, not that we have a choice right now. But you can't replicate a tradeshow experience in the digital platform.

Yeah, a lot of those things don't translate even like I'm in the chamber of commerce, and I loved going to every month they had a mixer and now they've been doing them online and I'm just kind of like, I don't know, it's not the same like I don't feel like opening my computer and sitting down on a zoom thing with Like 20 people from the chamber and talking to them, like my heart just isn't in it because it's not even close to being the same thing.

Yeah. So I think the next thing that we'll attend, I think the next thing that we'll attend is, actually so right now we're entering slow season. I mean, last year was actually home last year was actually busy, because that's when I was in Germany and I was in Italy and by international shows typically happen like every two years here in the States, we do yearly stuff, international stuff that's kind of in like a two year program. seer ha happens next year, if I'm not mistaken, and that's in February, maybe in France, so we may be there Who knows? How

much do you feel you need to sell your stuff? I mean, it seems like in the culinary world, people know about Polly science. And it seems like you probably have some really great chef ambassadors like in my opinion, like the there's some really solid people using your stuff, and I'm sure they're great spokes people for it. So how much do you need to actually still Go out and do the hard sell and say no the control freak is awesome the smoking gun is awesome or does it kind of sell itself because you have really great chefs who use your products and promote them

every single day as a push man like every single I'm glad it appears that we have you that there is so that that we are this this thing that people you know know about and are aware of but still when I when I tell people that you could smoke potato salad they don't want really you know like there's so many people who just it's still hasn't You know, it hasn't hit that far down yet. And especially like the control freak the control freak actually right now is doing amazing. took a while to get up to speed just like sushi. I remember going to an ACF conference. I think it was actually my very, very, very first show at pi science and that was in 2013. Teen I believe. I remember going there and there were people who would actually like stop at our booth. Like step outside the booth. You know that where the carpet ends at Sacred tears. You don't cross it if you're not interested. And they would stop at the edge of the booth and they would actually scoff at our products and like, what is this cooking in a bag? This is crazy. You know, who does this? You know, I don't need that. That's for cheaters or whatever the you know, the thing they used to say was, I remember that and then slowly it got it shifted, because we were with ACF for a very long time. And then it kind of changed. All I've got I've got five circulators I got seven. What new do you have? Oh, you got a noose like people had adopted it. With the control freak. When we started it, it was the same thing. Why do I need this? What's different about it and all of that, and there was some growing pains but now people are starting to see it. But then you still got people who like they don't understand how to use the probe control and like how magical that is. Or, you know, people say I don't need to sear you know, a steak at 401 degrees versus 202 degrees like that. No, you probably don't need a very specific temperature, but at least you know where the heck you are as opposed to not knowing anything at all. Like you put something on a grill that's hot and Okay, How hot is it? You know, how long will it take? When it's done? That's the chef answer. When it's done. It's done. Like whatever. So it's it's still a push but we have a ton of great assets I work every day on it. And we love to control freak it's it's doing really well and I'm, it's probably my favorite product at this point. That's really cool. It's on my wish list of things to get and

I don't have one yet, you know, and I talked to you and I need to add it to my arsenal of things, especially with my personal chef business because going out to people's homes, like I don't bring employees with me usually. So I'm trying to do a five course meal for like, I did a dinner for 20 people the other night by myself, and that was a hump.

And there's so many stories like that. I did this dinner for 30 people I did this in for 22. I did this you know I was in this crazy situation and I needed to make it happen. There's So many people who are in that situation. And that's what these tools are there for. They're there for you to help you manage it. It's not a toy, it's a tool to help you manage that workflow and put out an amazing product. And there's just so many people who aren't our tools like help in situations like that. And to

be honest, I feel like a control freak, I would actually use way more than even a circulator. And as he'd set up, like, I don't know, just because, you know, it's like less workflow to the whole idea of like getting something bagging it sealing it, whatever taking that, for me, I'd rather just be able to have this thing on and it's going and it's at this temperature and being able to control that super precisely. I mean, you know, I've taken numerous control freak workshops at startups, because I wrote, I did the editorial for them. I think that was Brad Kilgore, his demo that he was using you and I spoke on the phone for like an hour and a half one day I remember because I was at my actual job before I left there and I was like, sitting outside by the dumpster talking to you. hour and a half getting all the specs for that. I mean, such a great piece of equipment and you know, I'm Surprised more people don't have it because it's really reasonably priced for what it does. And I'm sure that that it holds up really well. And you can get your ammonia out of it in no time.

We have, I think our failure rate is like less than 1%. I mean, they're, they're the build quality of those insane. The, as an example, the temperature probe that goes through the glass, there's a little rubber gasket on it that goes up and down. And I forget, I forget the name of it. But they actually use it to gasket, the doors on space shuttle, because of its temperature, just temperature resistance and durability under high temperatures. And it's the only material that has the sort of flexibility characteristic. So yeah, like we went overkill and selected this really crazy material, but those material choices go throughout like the whole product like the fans that we that we chose that cool the interior, like those people Power a jet engine. We have new circulators coming out. They actually have a Ruby in them. And I'm like, everyone gets to say that their circulators are baller because they actually have a Ruby in there. And it's just because it makes it's for the longevity of the product, like our products are known to last forever. So we just have to keep that up.

How many items in your product line? I mean, obviously, you've got the control freak the smoking gun, you have all of your circulator stuff. Are you still making the anti griddle? I know that was a thing, and then it kind of wasn't and am I correct? Did that come back a little bit?

Yeah. So there was a there? It did come off them. I'm surprised you. You're very astute. Chris.

I love talking to Philip when I see him and he's always good for a half hour or so conversation when you see him at Star chefs.

Absolutely. Yeah, there we came off the market. And then there was a rerelease of it. And it's still in the market now. Yeah. So that's back. We have the sort of quiet we don't really remember. Too much it's sort of its, it has its place in in the food and beverage industry so we saw it as well. The summer yay which is like a hyper wine decanter. It has some drawbacks because it has a cord so you can't do it table side. But you can do it at a bar. So it has its place. So you have the suddenly a we have Sonic prep and wrote EVAP circulators. We have our vacuum sealers we have the 400 series which is a hassle vacuum sealer. We have one for home. And we have a new one that we're onboarding the MX infuser that one has, has yet to launch. You heard it here. First folks on Chelsea restaurants. You heard it heard it here first.

I think it was my first year at Star chefs. Dave Arnold. Dave is a crazy guy. We were at the poly science booth that predates you by a couple years. But he grabbed the ultrasonic homogenizer and it makes that like squeal sound? Yes. And is it like when it's not in something? And he and I were talking about it. And he's like, Oh, I got something you got to hear this. Seemed like put it up towards my head and turned it on. And that sound like I can still almost to this day hear that like, high pitched squeal that like went straight through my brain. And I thought I was gonna have an aneurysm. I heard that thing.

Yeah, that was like a super awesome piece of equipment to say, I don't know what I would ever do with it. I mean, I guess, like you can make what like Manos and seven they'll hold together and never break apart is that kind of what that does. You can make super stable emotions without emulsifiers because it uses cavitation to split the surface tension of the similar particles and then so basically everything becomes homogenous. You can use it for that. I don't typically use it for that. I typically use it for infusion. If you need to do some sort of rapid infusion. It's good for that. The sun front is cool, but there's other ways to do those techniques. And it's it's quite expensive. It's It's really cool. But it there's a place for it. So there's a couple bars that we know in Asia and they have them out and They're like behind their bar and they'll make bitters, like all aminute for a guest, which is totally over the top. But that's what people are going there for, you know, so it has its place, wrote EVAP is really cool. I love playing with that. I'll leave it there.

I love all that nerdy equipment. I actually connected with rich rosendale last week and went out to his Test Kitchen and was looking at all of his equipment. I got super excited about all the stuff he has, like he has a equipment like that, like the roto Vapp. And I'm like, I don't know what I would do with that either, but uh, but I'm sure I'd find something for that.

So for so with the roadmap, it's basically a way to make either really beautiful distillates or concentrations. So and then what you do with the distillate is up to you. Technically, it's illegal to make a discipline out of alcohol, right to either distill or read the Stila spirit. But if you're walking a gray line, you know, grapefruit gin is a really delicious thing I tell you, so you can make really beautiful Things like that. Or else, you could say you're going to distill granny smith apples, and you end up with this liquid that smells intensely of granny smith apples. And then you vacuum seal it in with a watermelon. Now you've got watermelon that smells like granny smith apple. And that really turns someone's head upside down, let me tell you, or you can do really cool things with it, like certain things is still better than others like chocolate. distills really well, the flavor of chocolate still does really well. And then you've got to sort of bounce it back out with like sugars and powdered acids if you want to stay clear, to kind of get the flavor back because really what distills out is the is the aroma and some flavor. But the wackiest thing that I've done with it was make clear chocolate soda. I was actually chasing clear chocolate pathway. So I wanted to make like clear chocolate fudge was the idea. I never got it to work, right because the pH and such and getting it to set and I'm not a pastry chef by any means. I'm sure Somebody could do it if I gave them like where I left off, but I could never make it work. And then you've got this this, the evaporating flask, you get a really beautiful concentration. So if you're doing like, as an example from the chocolate, you you're left with this intensely, intensely chocolate and ganache. If you take apple cider or strawberry juice and run it down, you can actually make like strawberry butter out of just strawberry juice just by concentrating the juice itself, which is let me tell you absolutely delicious.

There's so many interesting weird things out there that people are working on. I don't even I can't even begin to start to think about that kind of stuff. Neither can I. I'm always impressed when I go and see an action you know, working with guys like that. My my first introduction to most of this is I took a workshop at French culinary at the time with Dave Arnold, Nils Norton and I literally had no idea who they were like by company. Nobody did. The company was giving me thousands of dollars in control. renewing EAD that I never used. And after like four years at my company, I was like, oh, there's this molecular gastronomy workshop in New York City. Can I go these guys sound pretty cool. And I convinced my bosses to pay for me to go to New York City. I had never heard of cooking issues. I didn't know Dave or nails. I didn't know anyone. And then I got there. And then, you know, you go down the rabbit hole. And they're talking about ideas and food and all these like cool people that I had never heard of. I didn't even have like a Twitter account or anything. And then Dave got me into the world of like New York City cocktails and all this weird stuff. And I've often said that I don't even think I'd have my business today. If I had never gone to that and met Dave that, like, if you backtrack, my history of how I got to where I am now. It all started by meeting Dave Arnold in 2000. And I don't know 10 maybe in New York City.

Yeah, that was the that was the infancy of a bright Well, actually, technically, the infancy was like 2005, but that 2009 2000 like 2009 to 2011 word like it was a really special time frame for us there. That was kind of when things were like really expensive. loading. actually funny. I've never met I've never met Dave Arnold. Not ever

what never. He's not even like come he's not even come by like it because I've seen him a star chefs, I saw that star chefs in Brooklyn like a couple years ago when you must have been there.

Star chefs, I'm running around a madman. So he'll he and I have always missed each other in the building. David Chang I've never met. I've never met again, another person who you think I would have Thomas Keller, I was in the same building is that men? hundreds, not hundreds of times, but many times. And I never had the chance to meet him. And it was funny. So my Thomas Keller story is that I was at NRA I think this was two years ago. And he and Philip are friends and like well, years leading up to it. You know, TK is always there with like rationale or Heston or whoever it is and he doesn't think in their boots and in that sad And he's like, oh, and Philip is like on Thomas is gonna stop by and this that and I was always ready I had my French Laundry cookbook and I'm like if he stops by, I don't care how embarrassing it is. I'm asking him for his autograph on this thing, right? Never he never came by never came by. So like two years ago, I'm just working in the booth, you know, doing whatever I was, you know, doing. And I turn around and I bump into the sky, and I look up, and it's Thomas Keller, and my heart sank into my feet, like I didn't know. And I immediately, like, start shaking. And what do what do I say to him? I'm like, Chef, it's a pleasure to meet you. Can I just say you're like a unicorn. Like, I've heard that you exist, but I've never seen you anywhere. And like, and I tell him like I've been with PI science for this long and you're I know you're a friend and fellow On this and you know, our we've emailed in this app, but I've never met you. Nice to meet you, man. Like, that's what I say that I'm sure

he looked at you like you are the most ridiculous person? Well, I mean, it wasn't to that level. I met him in Philadelphia. He was doing a talk and a book signing with Michael Ruhlman. So it was probably one of the books that had just come out. But I have my becoming a chef that I've had everyone sign. I know you've signed that book. I've had almost 200 chefs sign that book. But I remember giving it to him. And it wasn't a book that he or Michael wrote. And I remember him looking at Michael and saying, I don't even know what this book is. But sign it was kind of like this. I gave him this book design. But it wasn't like the French Laundry book. It wasn't when the Romans books, it was kind of like whatever and I'm like, nice to meet you. And I got a quick like kind of awkward photo and then they shuffled me out of the line. So that's like the only time I've met Thomas Keller. It wasn't very meaningful, but I got him to sign a book so I'm cool with that.

I actually so I was fortunate to eat at French Laundry. Last year, um, there was a conference at CIA worlds of flavor. And we were for I was fortunate enough to get a table there. And I go to the bathroom, and they have this, you know, new kitchen. And from the outside, it's all glass. Well, to get to the bathroom, you have to go outside, and you can't you walk past the kitchen. And I came back from the bathroom and I'm like, looking inside, like, kind of just like staring around, you know, just, you know, doing the, you know, looking at, you know, the fishbowl of chefs in front of me. And then I realize right in front of my face is Thomas Keller, like staring back at me, like, what is this guy doing? Um, so I, I immediately, like, freak out. And I like very quickly and abruptly walk myself back to my seat and I'm like, He's here. He's here. He's here. He's here. He's here. What do I do? Do I ask to see you? What do I do? So actually, they knew that We were there. And at the end of the meal, we got invited into the kitchen and I got a picture with him. And he signed a book for me. So it wasn't my French Laundry book, but I got an autographed book from Thomas Keller.

That's very cool. I have, I think two books signed by him, so But neither one of them's the French Laundry book either or anything he wrote. Another one was like an anthology that he was in. So again, I had him sign it this event, two books that were not his books, and he's kind of like, whatever, you know, I probably shouldn't even say it's like, I'm not even really interested in that food anymore. You know, there used to be a time when I was really interested in kind of like the Michelin three star I feel like that's kind of worn off. And I would rather just go eat at like, I think I think like the Michelin one and two star places are really awesome. And like that star like I'm not into the stuffy service like I would rather go to NP own and have like a really interesting Mexican meal from Alex Tupac then go and eat at, you know, per se when I'm in New York. I used to go to star chefs the first year I went in In a lebra den because I'd never been and I awkwardly got a table by myself and was like sitting smack dab in the middle of the dining room and did the full like 15 Course Menu, because I thought, you know, it would be good to experience and it was a great meal. But at the end of the day, I would rather just go to like some cool place in Brooklyn that's like a Michelin one star and have like a really solid meal in a unpretentious environment.

I don't think it's the pretense I think that there that when you're talking three stars there it has this you know, air of its expectation and you at being a culinarian you imagined it to be so much more grand than it could ever possibly be. It could none of the very few of these places it's even possible to live up to your expectations because in your mind, you've made it to be this, this thing, but when you go to like a one or two star you're like, it's Oh, it's gonna be really good. And like it's that but when it's three stars, I don't know it's just this mindset and it's just gonna your minds gonna melt when you eat this food. And I and it just very rarely in my experience, does it does it live up to that experience? It's usually very very good but it's not you know what my mind had made it out to be.

Yeah and I'd almost rather spend the money and go to like to solid one or two star restaurants like when you look at dropping like 250 to $500 on one meal. I feel like if I'm gonna be in a place I would rather go to like two really great places than like one spend all my money kind of restaurants.

Oh absolutely. Like when we are so like when we went when we went to French Laundry Yeah, I was there on a work trip but make no mistake worked in pay for that. I paid for that. Right. And then we went to one of the other days we went to a charter chart. We went to charter oak man that like blew my mind. I had no I didn't know what it was. Somebody had just said hey, charter oak. And, of course the chef's name escapes me at this moment, Chris. Have Christopher Costco?

Yes. Because they did like a mainstage. They closed out star chefs, I want to say like two years ago, they did the final, right mainstage of the day. And I think that was like two years ago. And it was kind of like the charter oak experience. And they invited people to come up on the stage at the end and like eat food as they usually do at the end of the thing. Yeah. Is I mean, I, I love what he's doing there. From what I've seen. I love his cookbook, and I would love to go out to that. Is that like, kind of live fire like they're doing everything live fire kind of style?

Yeah, so there's this big like when you walk in, I'll send you just for grins. I'll send you my Flickr link from that from that trip after this. So you can see the space it's really cool. So there's this like, kind of like dark and they have this beautiful seating out store outside with this huge firing like you can have like a really awesome old fashion or whatever it is like before your meal. You go inside and it's kind of dark, kind of very like you know wood tones and stuff. And there's this gigantic fire Like on this back wall and there's this guy, you know, cooking all the finishing all this stuff. Now don't get me wrong they used to be there and other you know, techniques but it's more behind closed doors and it's just the focus is on this you know this hearth, but what it was actually the the thing that like kind of really made the dinner for me was the dessert cart. So they have a dessert cart that they push around your table at the end of your meal, kind of like you know, whatever, you know, like old school service and this dessert cart. They bring it around and they're like well we have this we have this we have this would you like one and so the desserts that they had, they had three, one was, this one was like ice cream so it was like a cow's milk ice cream from you know their cow and they turned it like hand crank in at the table for you and then topped it with like, you know, some berries from you know, their garden. That was cool. They had this a chocolate molasses tart and I think they basically like whipped cream at the table from that same cow. They whipped this cream there at the table like over ice. And then there was a third one, which I think was the Pavlova. And I forget, like what connection that had, but like, it was semi interactive. It was it was very cool.

So you're going to be doing the is VA online CV conference this summer, correct?

That's right. So um, so I'll be doing so so far I'm on the docket to do three things. So one is going to be just a general education talk. So last year I did on I did to be on steak and eggs. Because I think sushi just gets I'm sort of putting this like, it's only good for steak or, you know, poached eggs that you know, 60 whatever degrees and that's not true. So I did so I did one on that. And then the other one was a I was at a workshop you did that was lentils and Hollandaise, you went you and AJ did a battle and there was a black lentils and a half days, and it was conventional versus hoovy. So that was on the second day. And I was definitely in there because I have a picture of the two of you doing that. That was the pro track. So that was like the the the pro chef version. So that was a little bit longer. I think that talk was like 45 minutes to an hour or something like that. But there was another one that's beyond sticking eggs. And of course now I can't remember the other one. But anyway, so I did like two sessions and then like the protract. So this year, I'm going to do one, one general session, I'm going to do a pro track. And I think that's going to be focused on implementing suvi within your business because I got an email, I always get emails from people like, Hey, I have this type of restaurant. How should I use sushi, and like, Oh my gosh, to take a look at someone's menu and you're like, you can use it here, here, here, here, here, here, here, like all these things. So it'll sort of be something like along those lines. Like I'll look at a menu and then kind of go From there, I might even freestyle it just to make a genuine. Like, I'll have a couple menus and then like, I'll just start talking about implementation from there, how I would do it. And then the third thing I'm doing is, is like, they're calling it like a lunch and learn. So people will sign up for the lunch, as I understand that people will sign up for the lunch, I will publish the recipes for like, for the medium class for the class, so people can bring like sushi product, like anything that needs to cook for, I don't know, however many hours will already be done in ice. And then we'll finish things together and people will have in my class, a cocktail and, and the lunch entree. I'm really

interested to see how that goes. I had both Mike and Jason on the show, like two episodes ago or so cool. We talked about that. So I know they're excited for it. I'm looking forward. And you know, it'll be interesting. Like I said to them, there was no way I was going to be able to you know, you In pre COVID, get on a plane this year and fly out to San Francisco. And I think, again, like my pockets, what you give up in the hands on aspect, I think you can pick up in a global audience of people. Now it's less monetary commitment. You're not buying a plane ticket cross country having to stay in a hotel and put up for the conference. So you know, the ticket cost a little less. It's a very different vibe. I mean, I love an in person experience, but I hope that they have a really good turnout for this because the level of talent that they have at this thing this year, the people who've committed to it. I mean, you don't have chefs who are going to miss a plane. We, we caught that. We joke about that. They mentioned it on the podcast that you know, I mean, but those kinds of things happen. I mean, last year, one of their keynote presenters literally missed a plane and couldn't come out to this thing and now hopefully, he won't have any James won't have any issues this year. Doing it but you know, it's nice that I'll be able to you know, hopefully draw In from my home here in Maryland, and I can do that, whereas I wouldn't have been able to do that previously.

Yeah, I mean, I see it from that perspective, I see it from that perspective. And I'm glad that you have that outlook on it. Because, you know, me having been to so many, you know, I'll say like brick and mortar trade shows, you know, doing that circuit for the, you know, eight years running now or whatever it is. I'm very used to that format. So I'm not I wouldn't say I'm skeptical about the the virtual platform, but I'm curious to see how it goes. Jason and Mike are super smart guys. And they're going to figure it out. The crowd at is VA last year was like one of the best. Honestly, like everybody who was in that room was super engaged, and like a sushi nerd in the most endearing terms. And everybody wanted to be there. And it just had this really awesome vibe about it was this like really cool little special thing that was just kind of happening at this hotel and then there was a really cool moment. Like cuisine solutions did an awesome event. meathead did some cool stuff. I cooked one of the nights too. It was really cool. It was really cool event.

Yeah, I mean, it is really hard because one of my favorite things is to connect with people at the event, and you're not gonna have that same experience. I mean, I literally only met Jason because of star chefs because we were, I think for like three or four years before I knew him knew him. We were in the same workshops, quite often we've been at the same tables, and you strike out by conversation. It's like, Oh, hey, you know, I'm Chris. Remember, I think we did some workshops last year. I don't know that you get that same feel when you do an online class. When I look at all the people that I've met through the different things whether it be star chefs ICC or last year's is VA, I think the connection you can make with people in person is very different. I don't know that if I'm doing a virtual workshop with you online that you and I are going to become friends on the same level as if we had met in person and shared a table at a workshop. It's not gonna gonna happen. But, of course, but I mean, hey, look, we're all adjusting, right? We're doing what we got to do. We do what we've got to do. And we'll see how this goes. You know, I'm disappointed because star chefs is like, literally my favorite thing every year in October. I mean, I don't think they've made an announcement. Either way. I haven't seen anything about it. But I can't imagine that thing going off the way that it normally would in October. It's not it's gonna be a virtual. I mean, have you seen anything officially on that? Because I haven't seen anything announced. Have you?

Yep. Or maybe not officially? I don't know.

I don't know if it's public. You probably have like an inside track on that.

Yeah. I mean, early on officially, it's gonna be virtual this year.

Yeah. And it's not gonna be the same. It'll just make next year that much better. Right.

When I think they're gonna do or what I think the, from what I've heard the plan is

because I think it's 15 years. I think it's a 15 year anniversary of star chefs on is to because you know, they always have a bunch of graphy coverage, press coverage, video coverage, mainstream coverage because they have all of those things, what they intend to do, which I think is kind of cool, is, um, bring out all that archival content on this like online platform, which I think would be pretty cool. And one of the things that will upset star chefs was saying was that they are, they are working to comb through it so that the content like you wouldn't watch something and be like, Oh, that's not, you know, that. That's old school that that technique is, you know, we don't do that anymore. But you would look at it and you go, damn, that technique. Morimoto did that on stage like 10 years ago, and that's still badass. You know, I actually bought some of the DVDs from years past to watch them because some of those are really good because there's so much going on, you miss so much. And you say, Oh, I'm gonna catch Morimoto on the mainstage. And then you know, you're having a cocktail down on the trade show floor with you know, me and you and you're like, Oh, shit, I missed Morimoto. So I've had some of that stuff. I'm surprised they haven't put out more stuff since you go to every workshop and mainstage and all this and then recording and you literally never see, like, Where did that go? You know, there's guys in every workshop with a camera in your face? And it's like, Yeah, I would love to see that, like so many of those workshops, I'm trying to take notes super fast, and I've missed so much of it. And then that never shows up anywhere. I don't know what happens to it. It's just like we recorded it and for recording sake, but it never gets put out there for anyone to download or purchase or anything.

Yeah, I actually that's a great question that I would love to know the answer to, like, where does that content go? Because like, as you said, there's always you turn around and there's a camera in your face for sure. But I've never seen any of that content.

Yeah, the first couple years they put out DVDs. I only know this because one year, I bought tickets and then something happened and like I couldn't go or I couldn't stay as long as I wanted and they refunded my money. Back to star chefs like I paid for workshops that I couldn't attend and they're like we don't do refunds, but you can use the money out starships calm and you could buy like DVDs of previous year's ICC. So I bought that just because I had like $100 in like starships credit or whatever that means.

Yeah, I love starships. And I said, I'll support whatever they do. I wish I wish I could get my hands on some of that archival content. But now to see what how they, how they pull it off this year.

Yeah, I've gone to recording workshops on my iPhone, and I have some really cool audio from those. I don't know if technically I'm allowed to even release them. But I have my most popular podcast, which is it's stupid. Jeremy Szymanski did a workshop a couple years ago and I was writing about it and I literally recorded it on my phone. So I had notes to do my editorial on and three years later, I just reached out to Jeremy Nolan that star shots and said hey, I've got this great thing and the quality is pretty good. Do you care if I release it and he was all for it and I release it. I am amazed. It's my actually most listened to and downloaded podcast I've shot so that restaurants ever It's not even an interview it's literally I dropped my iPhone on a table there and had like a little mic on there and record it just for my own notes and but that shows you like people are rabid about that kind of stuff. I feel like suvi the same thing. When I talked to Jason he says they have like 40,000 members in their Facebook group. It's insane. I'm like you 40,000 members in your Facebook group like I have 500 in mind and I'm having trouble moderating like, what do you do with 40,000 people like I need a group with I don't know maybe I don't need a group of 40,000 people

he's got amazing food made easy I think it's like amazing food made easy's I think there's a sushi one there's like if there's like three that I think he had like like moderate but overall all across all of them it's I'm he's been at it for so I'm not you have as well but he's been at it for like so long. Like, I don't know. I don't know how he grew that audience but God bless him.

Yeah, I think one you know, we talked about that a lot in my circle is like finding a niche thing and drilling into it. You know, it's not enough to just be a group about cooking or whatever like sushi. There's a very specific thing. And if you're a subject matter expert, I think you can really build a following around that, which is where I've kind of looked at chefs without restaurants. I mean, there's a million chefs out there and a million chefs who work in restaurants buy kind of focusing on caterers, personal chefs, food truck operators, kind of really specialize in that. And some people said, you should branch out and have your podcast before everyone's like, but then you're just another restaurant podcast, and I want to be more about the entrepreneur side of starting a food business or something or, or really exploring interesting things like you're a chef, but you don't work in a restaurant and just kind of highlighting saying like, there's so many cool things you can do as a chef that just you're not aligned cook or an executive chef in a restaurant.

Dude, I told you this before, but I get it on record like I was the fact that you're doing this. I'm super stoked for it because I for a long time had this. I don't know if it was guilt. Or I was kind of ashamed.

imposter syndrome that you're not a real chef.

Yes, yes. I dealt with that for so long. Okay, storytime so. Um, I was at I was at Worlds of flavor. And you know, Jamie Simpson?

Oh, absolutely. From Chicago.

Yes. Good question. Oh, Jamie. And as he had his he had a podcast, by the way, because if he hasn't, he should have, he is not like, let's, we need to hook that up. I need to get him on here. Absolutely, um, you'd be great for this. So we're at Worlds of flavor. And, you know, I'm surrounded, I'm in this, you know, it's it's CIA. So you've got the chef's who work there, and they're, you know, they've got their totes and their white jackets and all of this and I'm like, Oh, God, like, I haven't been in this. I haven't been immersed in this world for a while. So I'm like, Okay, so I'm like, on my best behavior, you know, in the kitchen and, you know, making sure also that just, you know, everything thing is just everything is just up to spec. And, like overdoing it. And Jamie was cooking and I was cooking next to some amazing chefs like Jamie's prepping down like on a couple tables from me. And I don't recall what he was doing. I think it had to do something with cauliflower and white chocolate and caviar. And that's exact flavor combinations a little bit like it's been done. But the way that he explained it to me he was like, I know it's been done and I'm doing it this way because and like he had this like really like in depth. He really thought about this and it was absolutely delicious. And I'm like I don't do that. I don't do that. And I'm looking at my dish and I did um butter noodles. I the butter. No, no, it was a fancy butter noodles but I did this hyper technique. butternut butter noodles with black truffle and I mean, it was a good dish. I liked it. And I was like the for what I was trying to do there. It also illustrated the control freak and the ability to hold this berm on a very stable and so forth. And so I bring out these butter noodles, he does his session like I do my session. And then like we don't see each other for the rest of the conference. And I'm thinking about his dish, like his dish, like stopped me dead in my tracks. So I'm thinking about it for like days after the conference, and I'm just like, I can't get it out of my mind. And I'm like, and I made butter noodles. What was I thinking? And then like, so I see him. I think it was actually then again at Star chefs like a little while short while later like, whatever that was happens right before sessions, I see him and I'm like, man, and I told them this. And he's like, dude, your dish was so homey and then immediately, like, the blood drains into my face. I'm like, oh my god. This who trains is like the book whose team tells me my food is homie. Right like and now I'm just like, I feel even worse, right? And I'm like, so ice and I comes out of it. My mouth I tell them I'm like, My food is homey. Like, that's that's not good. I guess I gotta brush up on my skills. He's like, No man, the opposite like, that's what I want to eat. Like I don't want to eat what I made I want to eat with you made Yeah, that was really delicious and all that and that made me feel so much better. And then I started to think like, Yeah, I don't you know, train with the beaucoup team and I don't, you know, feed hundreds of people every night. But damn it. I make really delicious food. I can conduct myself in the kitchen when I need to I Can I have that whole chef's skill set in my back pocket and I apply it to everything I do. But yeah, I don't work in a restaurant. But I still have that backbone and I exercise my skill set in another area of the food industry and that's okay. Sorry, that's my rant.

No, I'm with you. I always kind of say I've started shutting out restaurants because I had a chip on my shoulder. You know, it's really hard. One of the things that I was so scared to say for so many years is I've literally never worked in a restaurant, like everyone's like,

but like that you did.

Now I started in food in 92. But that was at Burger King. And then I went to culinary school and I did an internship in a hotel that had a restaurant but I've exclusively worked and worked in like contract food. I've worked for Sodexo and compass group. I've been a catering manager at a hospital. I've worked for IKEA. You know, I've done all these things. And it's never been a restaurant. I've never worked like when I worked at Sodexo. I was at a place that was high end that we had a line that ran like a restaurant. But I didn't work at a restaurant. We were doing 1000 covers a day across five venues. And I had 125 employees. But it was not a restaurant. We did better food than most of the restaurants in town. And you could come in from the public, but it wasn't like an actual legit restaurant. And you would meet people and they say, oh, what do you do? I'm a chef and they get really excited and say, awesome. Where do you work? I'd be like I work for the next owner retirement community and you see this light Oh, and then like I don't know like I do really cool stuff like we break down whole fish we do sushi them doing infusions and and like you, you lost them because like you're not a real chef and part of me, like, I felt when I built my own business I almost couldn't tell people what I did. So, like when I started perfect little bites, nobody knew who I was like my avatar for like four years was like me holding a raw pig's head in front of my face. I remember that. And there was no discussion about like, where I worked. I was just like I was, you know, a chef, I had perfect little bites as a personal chef business. I have a blog, but I felt like that if people knew who I was, I'd be outed as like this guy who, like, you know, fake it till you make it like, Oh, I'm working in a retirement community for sadaqa. Like, I'm not a real chef, and there's no way I'm paying this guy $100 ahead. And it wasn't until I really found validation through the blogging and meeting people in the chef world. There's some people who've been super supportive of me. You know, when I started my path, guys, mostly through Twitter, you I'd love Twitter I've talked about a lot but guys like, especially in the Boston scene like Matt Jennings Brandon, baldly who was in Chicago at the time. Jamie Bissonnette like these guys like really, they would repost my stuff, they would share what I did. And I felt like wow, they're these like really awesome restaurant chefs who are well regarded who think highly enough of me to share my stuff. And then, you know, when you get follows by like, Sean Brock and Hugh Acheson, and Rene redzepi, I was like, you know, like, oh, like, maybe it's time to like, put the pig's head away and like, show my real self. And I was also afraid that, you know, I was side hustling and I thought my bosses were going to fire me because I had a job on the side and they were going to let me go because I was trying to build a business that that I could leave and do. So that was part of it, too. But a lot of it was the insecurity that like I wasn't a real chef because I'd never worked in a restaurant and never worked with these cool people. I'd never started anywhere, you know, and I think that's a real thing, especially for people like us who are not restaurant chefs.

Yeah. I It is great to you. Somebody else here somebody else, you know, just talk about that experience. And I think it's, it's so many people I there are more people who don't work in restaurants than people who work in food then the people who actually work in restaurants like the industry is so much bigger than just restaurants 100%

you know, for me, it was always like work life balance of I came out of culinary school with a debt I had to pay back $404 a month for 10 years.

Oh, mine was even beyond that. Mine was beyond that.

So to come out, you're basically paying like a car payment or like half your month's rent. Like you couldn't go and make $10 an hour I had to go work in contract food where I got better money. Oh, and by the way, like I had every other weekend off and I had a 401k and I had like, two to four weeks vacation like all good things. And I can still do really awesome food. But you know, everyone wants to hear that. You got to add coronary schooling. You're working at some Michelin star restaurant.

Yeah. And that was the picture that like I painted for myself. I thought that was the path that was You know, I was going to work. Three stars was the goal, man. And then I started working and I realized I'm like, No, I weekends are awesome. Like, I like what I liked what I did, but like, when it's 85 and sunny in Chicago and ice, there's droves of people headed down North Avenue walking to the beach, and I'm walking into the, you know, back door of an alley in an alley. Like, it kind of sucked a little bit. I'm not gonna lie.

And it's also kind of a young man's game. I mean, there's one thing when you're younger, in your 20s, and you're single or whatever, but now I'm married, and I have two kids, you know, I want to spend time with them. I want to have some balance there. And I'm able to do that now. And I think a lot of people want to do that. And I don't think we should be shamed for wanting to have time with our family. I mean, I know you're newly married. I'm sure your wife already has enough challenges when you're traveling so much not to put words in anyone's mouth, but I know like, my wife would hate it if she never saw me and yeah, I spent half my time traveling. That would be Tough alone, it wouldn't have work. I mean, it wouldn't have worked. If I would have stayed in the restaurant. That was the kind of the whole thing it was like. So like when I that's the genesis of me getting out was, I didn't know at that time. I had my palate and I liked food to taste the way that I wanted it to taste. I knew the cuisine that I wanted to cook. I wanted to do things the way I wanted to do it, and I was ready to do that. Did I know anybody who was gonna cut me a big fat check to open a restaurant? Nope. Did I want to work in I could find a chef's job somewhere else where I'd be working for someone else and then owe them my life and not be able to do my own food.

Nope, not gonna happen. And I wanted to I that's when I kind of I had met my wife and I was like, Alright, well, I want to spend time with her. Okay, I guess I gotta try something else. So like, I started working at sort of the top just teaching cooking classes and I worked as a sales I wasn't even making I wasn't making enough money to sustain myself. So I would work as a as a And like do the classes then when I wasn't I would work more hours as a sales associate, just just to pick up time. And then on one day out of the blue, there's a dumb luck. It was a Facebook post like Polly sciences looking for people to join the team and I sent a I sent a, you know, reply to over like Facebook Messenger. And I never heard anything for like, or no, no, they had that. No, that's right. They had the HR address listed there. So I sent my resume. And I never had a resume. But I wanted I was like, I like poly side. So I wrote a resume that night, sent it in. I heard nothing for months, like months forgot I even forgot about the whole thing. And one day out of the blue, the HR manager called me was like, Hey, are you still interested? And I was like, Yes. And I figured I'd have to get on a plane and go, I don't even know where it was. turns out they're 30 minutes from my house.

Wow, that thing seems like it was meant to be.

Yeah, here. It is. Eight years later, whatever it is, I've lost track of time. But I like it. I mean, I enjoy it. We make cool stuff. And I like what we do.

I just think there's so many avenues in the food world if you love food and cooking that you don't, anymore have to be dedicated to being this like 80 hour a week in line cook in a restaurant. And I think there's some really cool stuff. And, you know, I love sharing the stories of people who are doing cool things in the food world. Yeah, I mean, like, look at look at what Jamie's doing at chef's garden. So I mean, he's, he's both, like I said, they're, they operate, they treat like the bulk of store team trains, they're there. They have chef's garden, he's culinary vegetable Institute. So they're researching basically everything in anything that you can do with everything from growing the vegetables to eating the vegetables, and then composting, everything in anything like unearthing all of that because that research just hasn't been done in the way and extent that they're doing it. And he's also like a really badass So there's him my buddy Scott Guerin at modernist pantry and he did like the formal like chef's jacket type thing for a long time and then he had some other interests started a family and was like look I got it I gotta do something else so he hooked up with modernist pantry and now he does a bunch of content for them test ready does recipe development for them yes, we helps people helps customers. So if you got a bag of I don't know nh pectin, and you're like my apple Joe bone set, he can tell you exactly why it doesn't set or you know why it said too hard. And like that's his job. But he did the he did the restaurant thing for a while and it's not for everybody. So is there anything you want to leave our listeners with before we jump off here today?

I just wanted to call attention to the to the whole Chefs Without Restaurants thing, and thank you for doing that. Because again, like you said, impostor syndrome. Yeah, I dealt with that for quite a while. So when I heard you were doing this, I thought that was super cool. I'm also gonna do a shameless plug. PolyScience has some new circulators coming out. I can't share too many details about the about the devices but we have some new circulators coming out. Probably probably like three months from now they should be out. So I've been working a lot a lot on those and everybody should check out our Instagram, follow all our channels, all that good stuff, sign up for our newsletter. Um, for those who don't know, our social channels are at Polly sense whether it's Instagram, Twitter, on Facebook, I think it's probably science culinary. Check out our YouTube channel.

And I have really comprehensive show notes. All of that will be in there.

And lookout for the for the new circulators. We just finished filming with an awesome production company here in Chicago last week on the new devices, so the content is in the can, and the devices are on the way. So super excited for that.

Awesome. I'm looking forward to that. I'll check that out. So to all of our listeners, this has been the Chefs Without Restaurants podcast. As always, you can find us at chefswithoutrestaurants.com and .org, and on all social media channels. Thanks so much and have a great week. Transcribed by https://otter.ai