Talking All Things Chocolate (and Vanilla) with Cody Marwine of The Perfect Truffle

Welcome to the Chefs Without Restaurants podcast. I'm your host Chris spear. On the show. I have conversations with culinary entrepreneurs and people in the food and beverage industry who took a different route. Their caterers research chefs, personal chefs cookbook authors, food truckers, farmers, cottage bakers, and all sorts of culinary renegades. I myself fall into the personal chef category as I started my own personal chef business perfect little bites 11 years ago. And while I started working in kitchens in the early 90s, I've literally never worked in a restaurant. I hope everyone's having a good week so far. I have a bit of an allergy thing going on. So forgive my nasal monologue here. I'll try to make it brief. This week, my guest is Cody Marwine from The Perfect Truffle, a chocolate shop he owns in downtown Frederick, Maryland, I have the benefit of living a mile away. So I've had many of the delicious chocolates from the shop. You might have heard my mini episode with him a couple months ago about what it means to be a chef. That was a segment that I pulled out of this discussion. We talked about how he ended up taking over the chocolate shop that he'd been working at on and off for almost a decade. We discussed chocolate percentages supply chain issues, temporary chocolate and how to work with it at home. We also talk about vanilla and how it's kind of underrated. Actually, I'd never really given vanilla much thought myself. So if you love chocolate, or even vanilla and want to pick up on some tips and tricks on how to buy us and store chocolate, this is the episode for you. As always, I'd love it if you shared this with people who you think might appreciate it. And the episode will be coming right up after a word from this week's sponsor. The COVID pandemic has clearly redefined the world of dining. Despite over 110,000 restaurants closing around the country, people still want the ambience and social connectivity that is so critical to the dining experience. Over the past 27 years, the world of the personal chef has grown in importance to fulfill those dining needs. While the pandemic certainly upended the restaurant experience, it provided an avenue for personal chefs to close that dining gap. Central to all of that is the United States personal chef Association, representing nearly 1000 chefs around the US and Canada and even Italy. US PCA provides a strategic backbone for those chefs that includes liability insurance, training, communications, certification and more. One of the big upcoming events for us PCA is their annual conference scheduled July 7 to 10th at the Hyatt Regency in Sarasota, Florida. Featuring a host of speakers and classes. The conference is a way for chefs to hone their skills and network with like minded business people. For those who supply the industry it's a chance to reach not just the decision makers but the actual buyers of products. This will be their first time back following the COVID lockdowns and chefs are anxious to connect. For more info about the ASPCA, how to join and how to attend their conference, go to USPC a.com. As always, all the info will be linked up in the show notes. And now on with the show. Thanks so much and have a great day. Hey, Cody, how's it going? Thanks so much for coming on the show.

Thanks for having me, Chris.

I'm looking forward to talking to you about all things chocolate, and maybe

a little more wonderful looking forward to speaking with you.

So let's kind of start this off with a little bit of your background. I love to give a little context to our listeners. So right now you own a chocolate shop. But you've done many other things in the food world. So how did you get started in food and cooking. So

I originally I grew up around food for mostly my grandfather really exposed me to a lot of different foods on the savory side, and my mom and grandmother always were baking. But I enjoyed cooking savory food, that was actually my first job over at sizzle mansion, because unfortunately, that was the only place that would give me a job. That wasn't fast food. And I was trying to go something. It wasn't just fast food. At that point, I went to CIA, or CO Institute of America for college. And I jumped into baking and pastry because for me, it's science based. You do one thing, you get one thing, you mess up that thing. And you end up with a bad product. It's kind of very easy to tell, sometimes what you did wrong. And for me safer, cooking was a lot more chaotic, at least how I looked at it. It's before everyone started delving into the more sciency base cooking, I guess you could say. And then while I was, I guess it was in high school or kind of early college, my little brother had found that at the shop that I worked for after college, which was perfect truffle, which is what I now own. So he showed me pictures of this place. And I was like, well, that's a pretty awesome place I didn't know existed. I thought it was in DC. Lo behold it was tucked back behind Talbots and Shugborough. And I just always kind of went in talk with Randy, the original owner, whenever I was home or just around just about chocolate and just kind of what was going on. And after college after being there for two years getting my associates degree, I came back to work for him for a year. Because that allowed me to pay off the massive student debt that you occur in culinary school, as everyone knows. So

that was your first job after culinary school was working at the chocolate shop. Okay,

that gave me a lot of freedom because I was able to pay off a lot of loans. I'm from here, so I was able to live at home. And then I went and worked out the Ritz Carlton because I was trying to expose myself also to as much diversity as possible for as far as how cooking is it whether it be in restaurants, whether it be in hotels, bakery or like that like at school. We had a little segment inside of a bakery that was at the school. While I was in college. My externship was at nougatine at John George, which if anyone familiar with it, it's a very high end restaurant in Columbus Circle. And that was working under Johnny Zini, who, at the time was arguably one of the best pastry chefs in the country, if not the world for a lot of people. So you work with Johnny? Yeah, I was with him just for a short like four months. That gave me a lot of experience very quickly. And that's where I met Fabian Vaughn house who owns contra while there. And now people's wine bar. So after being at Pivotal for a while, I jumped to the Ritz Carlton to be hotels see that side aspect. I wasn't big into it, I didn't really care for the corporate structure. So then I kind of kept bouncing back and forth, then I'd come back to the perfect truffle. Because it was a nice home base, I was able to come back, and also still have creative freedom with a lot of things. But in the meantime, that's when contra up in New York was opening. And I had always been kept in contact with Fabian about coming to work with him because he was someone that I started to work with. Well, at nougatine. When I was there, he was someone who actually helped me out a lot. He was unofficially basically a sous chef there. But he didn't actually have a title because he was technically an intern or an extern. But he was doing a lot of the r&d there and someone that was just awesome to learn from and just work with and was a great friend. So I went to Contra. We opened up in 2013 in the in the fall. And then I was there for probably about two and a half years or so before I decided I needed to get out of the city because it was just it's kind of soul sucking. So I came back to Maryland worth the perfect shuffle again for like four or five months and then they're like, Hey, we're opening a wine bar next door. Why don't you come back and went back up there kind of help that a contour a little bit more, and then jump to the wild their side which is the bar. And that's also where I got to do some savory cooking. And not just pastry. But the biggest thing there, both of the restaurants was everyone helped with everything. Whether it be pastry, whether it be savory, plating greens, cracking oysters open on the fry station, anything really that needed to be done you you help with a small kitchen?

Do you find that there's like, more crossover that way like that maybe sweet stuff kind of creeps into the savory dishes and vice versa?

Yes, uh, no. I mean, I did. I did. I did kind of all kinds of prep as far as everything went. And there was times yeah, that I was making little, little crackers for the savory side for our muse bushes, or like the little snacks that beginning as everyone calls them now. I mean, there's a lot of crossover. Now as far as like, what techniques are being used, I guess you could say. But same time, in the small kitchens, everyone's starting to cross over and starting to mix and paste traditions are starting to become a lot more savory. Like our first dish that was ever on the menu that actually got a lot of publicity for was a roasted beet dish with yogurt, and a hazelnut milk chocolate gianduja Cromo. It kind of went away for like a year. And then it came back in a different iteration a little bit. But it was a very savory dish. But that was also the first time I had ever been exposed to like, putting so much acid in things that like, I'd be putting lemon juice in the yogurt sorbet, and they'd be like, Okay, now I'd more. Okay, now I'd more.

So when did you decide to leave there?

I left there. Three years ago. Now? I think it is. I left snare. And one of the things was Randy always like, when even when I was there the first time back in 2013. He was always like, are 2011 Sorry. He was like, so when he went to buy the business, I was like, not now. It's not not yet. Like I'm still brand new. And he always be like, well, when do you? How come? It's like, I just don't have I need to keep going. He knew that. And but then every so often, he'd be like, Hey, you wanna come by the business? Like kind of jokingly, but kind of serious. It's like, well, how much time you got your lease last two years, like great. See in two years.

So when you came back to Frederick, had you already decided to purchase the chocolate shop? Or was that something that you got into? Like, once you got here and got settled?

We were in the works of me purchasing it. Because like I said, we always kind of went back and forth like, Hey, when are you going to purchase it? Not yet? Not yet. Not yet. And I knew at that point, if I didn't get out of restaurants, it just I was just not going to be healthy. And I was like everyone, we went out till two o'clock in the morning and drank and partied and had fun. But the chocolate shop was a way out for me of the restaurant industry. So I had been talking in talks with Randy, and we actually had been working on me purchasing it, pre COVID. and stuff just didn't work out. And then during COVID We really sat down more like alright, what do we need to do to make this work? Because in a day, Randy wanted me to also be successful. And so then last year, and actually January 15, of 21, I was able to purchase it. But it had been in the works for about two years prior, like seriously in the works for me to purchase it. It was a crazy time to purchase it because it was like early December, I think it was Randy comes in and he's like, Hey, so we got to talk. Alright, well, what he's like, Well, here's my lease. It ends April of 2019. I think it was 2020 is a Do you want the business? Because if not, if so we got to extend the lease. If not, we don't. And it's like and then it's done. So that was kind of just like, alright, we got to do it now. Because it was now or never as far as everything went for that.

So you had been working for him for a number of years. So you were already comfortable with kinda like how the shop was running all the things that were going so it wasn't like you kind of came into it with no experience. You'd sounds like collectively put in a good number of years there.

Yeah, I mean from 2011 Till now like I was there off and on constantly. And I had been making recipes for a long time. There was a lot of things that I wanted to do that Randy wasn't quite ready to do as far as like online or shipping or, like now I'm bringing in a ton of different chocolate bars from other makers. What a lot people called bean to bar chocolate. They doing different frozen items in the summer, and just trying to expand what I'm doing overall. But overall day to day I had been really running the show For the past, like, two years prior.

So what are some of the things you've learned in the past year since you took over? What are some surprises?

surprises, I knew is a lot of work. And somehow I ended up working more than I already ever have. As you can probably attest to owning your own business, I mean, surprises. I mean, the amount of adaptability that you have to have, there is never two days, like at this point for me, I guess it's not a surprise. It's just the amount like the amount you have to push yourself to constantly adapt and just keep changing constantly. Because the second you sit still, it's just like, well, it does not work anymore, especially in this environment now with COVID.

Yeah, so you didn't really have the benefit of owning the business during quote unquote, normal times. I mean, I'm sure so much of it is attributed to COVID. How much are you dealing with the same issues that other people in the restaurant industry, like, cost of goods going up labor shortages? Like are you seeing the exact same things in your business that every other food business is kind of seeing right now?

100%. I mean, when I went in, I had always been trying to increase our wages every year. And like, my part time, I was trying to get everyone to 15 $15 an hour. And that was a couple years ago. And then now it's like, crap, $15 an hour is not enough anymore. And so it's like, that was one of the hardest things. And that's a lot of people have had the same thing. It's just like, would that have opened businesses recently, you had plant like you had been planning this restaurant or shop ran like that, for the last two years or so. At, okay, I could have the help for at this much. And then all of a sudden, it's like, I need to actually increase that by 20% or 30%. Like, where's this money coming from, but then cost of goods. Part of it is myself, I've, I've changed the chocolate I'm using. So that has increased the cost itself, but then also just the cost of cost of goods in general have gone up. But then getting goods at the moment is hard, like cocoa powder, I can't get cocoa powder for my normal purveyor that will deliver to me on a weekly basis. So I've now started sourcing from other people that I normally had never have dealt with before. Getting things like coconut flakes, I can't find them half the time now. It's just like kind of weird things that like I go to order. I'm like, crap, I can't get that today. All right, well, we just don't have this flavor for now for a bit, just because you can't get certain things and with the way my shop is, if I don't have a flavor for a bit, it's fine. Or BlackBerry puree. I think it's like $18 A kilo now, which is like one of the more expensive purees most of them have are around like 12 or$14 a kilo. Everything. And now at this point, I'm planning like a month and a half or two months in advance to what I need to buy. Boxes are a big thing. Oh, that was a big thing. Last year, during the Christmas season, the people that make all the inserts for my boxes decided to go they closed. So every everyone in the country uses this one, essentially person or place to get their inserts from that no longer existed. And so everyone's like, well, I've got boxes now, but I can't get inserts,

you're talking about the little plastic things that the chocolates didn't.

So those were just non existent. So I was just trying to order any size I could, and hope that I could get something whether the cavities were a little too big are a little small, like it was just get anything you can and then it would be like alright, well now I can't get my lids for boxes, or I can't get basis for our boxes, but I can get lids. That was that's the biggest thing. So now at this point. I was like this whole last year, all during the summer, I was just stockpiling boxes. Every month I was just I was just buying$1,000 for the boxes or $2,000 for the boxes and just stockpiling. So I could have enough for this Christmas season. Because last year I ran out I think I don't like Valentine's Day I think I ran out

that's such a weird place to be in this like hoarding mentality. Like you know, whether it's us at home with toilet paper or you with 1000s of dollars in boxes. So strange. Yeah.

And well, that's the thing too, it's like, and then if you want to go to China to get boxes, because if you want to do like custom orders, like I don't, I can't do custom orders or not, I just don't have the cash flow as much as some people. And if you want to do custom orders, you got to order through like Alibaba or try to get a hold of a manufacturer and order packaging through China but you got to order like Three pallets or so you know, we're like 1015 20,000 boxes. But it will tell you, it's gonna take you like three months to get these boxes, that's a complete lie, you got it, it's gonna take like six to eight months, maybe might take more, you might get lucky, it might get stuck on a shipping container and in the middle of a channel with a ship that sideways, and you won't get it for like a year and a half. Who knows. That's one of the hardest things because it's just you can't just go out and just buy something. It's takes a lot of time and a lot of playing like right now. I would love to get some different more custom advent calendars that fit my chocolates better, but I need to start thinking about that now. So I can maybe have them for Christmas next year.

I never even thought about like planning that far ahead. I'm not sure I'm good. With that far ahead, planning.

I wish I could be like, for me, I get through Christmas. It's like okay, now on Valentine's Day, I get through Valentine's Day, it's like, okay, now on to Easter. Okay, it's on Easter. Now on to Mother's Day. At the end of the day, a lot of things can be stored like hollow figures, or just solid chalk can be stored or even even shuffles in general, you can make them as long as you formulate them correctly, they're going to last for 60 days, 90 days, by testing the active water content in them. Or you can also package them, seal them up really well whether it be vacuum sealing or through Saran wrapping them several times, and then slowly we're cooling down in refrigerator and then putting them in the freezer, and they're going to stay good for another six months or so. And you're going to tell the difference, as long as you freeze them properly installed them. It's just a matter of manpower, you just I just don't have at the moment to be able to get that far ahead.

Yeah, I didn't know you could freeze chocolates, I would have thought that they'd bloom or you'd have some issues with it. So they're gonna bloom if

you don't wrap them appropriately or vacuum seal them. Like all of ours, I put them in boxes, I put a desiccant packet in them to absorb any kind of extra moisture that's in there, and then you saran wrap them and then there's no air gonna change from the outside inside. And then when you are going to thaw them, you take them out, you sound on the back, you put them in the fridge first because you want to come up to temperature slowly as possible. Because otherwise you could deal with cracking. And then you'll let them come to room temperature for like 12 hours or so 24 hours is better. And then you can then open them up. And you won't have that blooming or condensation. It same thing like with your glasses, you go into a walk in and come out you instantly get fogged. Versus a lot of times like if you put your glasses in your pocket, they don't fall out because they kind of stay in this like nice environment.

That's a good analogy for it. I hadn't really thought about it that way. I don't make chocolates. I mean, I've tinkered a little bit at home. And I'd like to get into it a little more. I guess that's a good segue like jumping kind of ahead. What do you have for tips for people who just want to like recreationally make chocolate at home do you have any tips like where to start

a get good quality chocolate, the little candy melts from a Seymour or a they're not tasty, but they also they they react differently than your good quality because they take out the cocoa butter and replace it with like coconut fat and hydrogenated oils and other basically oils and fats for it. Honestly start with just a simple ganache recipe, two parts chocolate one part cream, and that's gonna give you a nice firm ganache, you can pipe it out. And then you can just hand roll it and then just toss it and some cocoa powder or powdered sugar. And that's your traditional truffle. And that's going to give you a very short shelf life, you probably need to store those in the frigerator unless you're gonna eat them right away. But it's gonna give you something tasty. If you want to get into doing then somebody has like a hardshell do the same thing. And then you could get away with not having perfectly tempered chocolate. If you're going to hand roll, I'll say like, if you melt your chocolate vigorously keep stirring it down to about 86 degrees 87 degrees Fahrenheit. And then as you're rolling it in your hands, that's going to also kind of temporary as you're taking the chocolate like little truffle balls dipping them in that they're in the chocolate and then hand rolling in your hand because hand roll or rolling it or moving the chocolate creates that temper. That'd be the best way to really get into it. Once you start getting into doing the molded bond bonds or hand dipping on that's when you really really need that good temper.

Can you temper in the microwave like it like successfully at home to do that kind of thing like once you get in the molding,

chocolate when you get it it should be in temper unless you got a bag that had been like melted, and then you're gonna have a giant block, because when it comes to manufacture, it is tempered. So at that point, if you were to just slowly melt it in the microwave, and keep it below 86 degrees or at you keep it at 86 degrees Fahrenheit, it's gonna be in temper, it's when you get it above, like 90 degrees, 9294 95 degrees, that's when it's out of temper. And that's when you're going to get that kind of chalky, brittle chocolate that is kind of gritty and just doesn't taste the same, it doesn't melt in your mouth, like, nice and creamy. And

I did my first hand at the cocoa bombs this winter, I know, you saw some of my pictures, you know, it was one of those things. And, you know, we went to like a market or something that was selling for$10 apiece, and I you know, I value small makers, like I get it, but I'm like, I'm not paying$40 For for like hot cocoa bombs. I'm like, I'm gonna buy a silicone mold on Amazon for 10 bucks, and I'm just gonna like figure this thing out.

So with those, you could easily take the chocolate, if you're new cocoa bombs, you could easily take the chocolate, paint them into the molds, and then put them in the frigerator or freezer, and I'll set up it that'll make it contract. Are they gonna be perfectly temporary? No. But some time, it's going to be melted anyway. So you're not going to taste it being a little untempered. But like, that's one of the things that people always ask me like, how can we don't do hot cocoa bombs? Well, I don't know how people are selling them for $5 A piece, I can't compete with that, with my labor costs of myself doing it slashed amount time doing it that it takes because they do take a while to do

was a lot of work. It was like a lot more work. And then you watch your kids drop them in a cup and they melt in 10 seconds, you're like, I just spent two hours making four hot cocoa bombs. And they melted in 20 seconds. Like, it was a fun experiment. But I think those silicone molds are gonna be used for other desserts and not like maybe I'll break out the cocoa bombs once a year.

It's a it's a cool thing. But same time like I can't for myself, I can't justify because I can't compete with what everyone else is doing. on that level, I can make a whole lot more I can spend my time doing a lot of other things. Or I can make also just really good hot cocoa mix at my work for you to purchase. That. Yes, it's not going to have the illustrious melting of the chocolate. But it's the same thing in a way. But it's part of it's the experience for what those are like, there's someone down in Texas, she makes ones that are snowmen that are sprite that are painted with cocoa butter that looks like little snowman. But they also cost I think $30 That makes like four cups. That's a lot. Yeah, that's a lot. But it's in time like you go to Starbucks and a hot cocoa cost you five, six bucks, or whatever it is. So there's not a ton of difference but in pricing for that, but it's it's still a lot to buy for something that ends up melting ultimately in 30 seconds.

And kind of piggybacking on that. Do you think about competition? I mean, you're not the only chocolate shop on the block. I mean, I guess technically on the block, but like going up one block, there's another chocolate shop and like how does that work? I mean,

so actually we are we actually have a competitor on our block is candy kitchens across the street from

us, but I don't think of them as the same level because they're not really feel like you're more of a specialty chocolates. And

everyone asked like, how is it free chocolate shops in this, like in this in this downtown area? And how are you guys different and so for us, I do mostly airbrush you're painted with colored cocoa butter bond bonds, they're super colorful, a lot of different mold variation. Some are enrobed. But I also have a bunch of bean to bar chocolate bars also. And I'm starting to do some frozen items and everything and some other confections slowly candy kitchen they do the very kind of I guess old school style. They do. Like the hand up caramels the buttercream centers.

I go there for like the chocolate covered Oreos. Yeah.

And then they have like they have a bunch of different like I think gummy worms and stuff and kind of more traditional candy shop that you would see fudge but something I don't I have that they don't is non dairy. I've started to do a lot more non dairy items and hopefully they show a lot more than just like four things. And then Zoe's they've got a lot more bars that are like have inclusions and um, and then they're truffles or bond bonds are mostly enrobed and they have just a little bit of garnish on top whether it be a little bit of like sugar crystals or a nut or like that hand up fork on top or something like that. And they have a little bit of molded bonbons but they're not as like they're not as colorful and vibrant as ours. So it's a very different look to it all. I go over there maybe once a year just to kind of see what they're doing and because it is always good to taste everything and they're, they're great chocolates, but it's not as they're not as vibrant.

Yet yours are definitely what I think of is like, when I want to give a gift to someone you know, I love getting a box of four and bringing it to customers because it is so eye popping first and foremost, like, you know, they have such a awesome sheen to them. And the nice colors on them. Some fun different kind of shaping on them. And I think it looks like a super professional like fancy chocolate.

Thank you. So that's that's actually go into that like the sheen of it. Like that's like one of the number one questions everyone has like, a Can you eat the whole thing be? Why do they look so shiny? And chocolate? As I tell everyone, if you handle it properly, naturally, it is shiny. It's not necessarily a bad piece of chocolate if it's not shiny, because there's several other factors with that for why it wouldn't be but it's naturally chocolate should be shiny.

People actually ask you if you can eat the whole thing. Yes.

A lot of people think like, the tops of like my enrobe ones that I do the different designs on what transfer sheets, they think it's like a paper sheet like you would see on the cake, like the rice paper sheet. Because like we get ones that have different logos on it for a company or I get ones with flowers on it or hearts like my number one fun thing to tell people is that I sit there with a little tiny paintbrush and paint every single little heart on the passion for one and somebody were like, No way. Are you serious? It's like, yes, it's got like a whole team of people that just sit there and paint little hearts on everything and like, and it's really fun to see that reaction.

It's like a nail salon. You're all sitting there with like little brushes.

Exactly. And there are people that paint, like little cherries on top of all their bond bonds or faces or like that. Personally, I don't know how they can have the cost effective that they had as cost effective way of doing that. Because that's a lot of work.

Not every business is a profitable business, which is something you learn every day, right? Yeah. But also,

I'm also not a great painter either. Like, I can airbrush I can paint a little bit but I cannot sit there and paint these really beautiful looking cherries or flowers on stuff. I just, I just don't have the artistic ability as far as painting like that.

My favorite is the Old Bay caramel is that one that's going to stick around.

That will be around always in the summer. This year I made I made a pretty large run of it. And then that was kind of ones that run was done that was gone for the season. But that one will always be around. It's a Maryland staple. It's one of those things where it's like, what, like where's the obey like it's Maryland, so you kind of have to have something if you're in Maryland with obey,

it's delicious. That's such an interesting combo. It's like the old bay in the caramel. It just works.

Or that one also it's a weird thing because you taste obey differently than you would if you eat it on like seafood or on chips or fries and like that, like for me kind of breaks down what's in obey. On kind of on you, you taste you taste a little bit that pepper Enos you taste that celery salt in it, or celery seed, you taste that little bit of mustard, you kind of it kind of breaks it down to where he comes taste each flavor in it. Which I think is kind of cool.

I always want to get the interesting things like that's, you know, I never like getting the thing that everyone has. So it's like what is the most unique special thing and that's definitely one of those ones.

That's one though, where I get people go, vanilla, that's just boring. Why would I Why would I get vanilla and that's one that always sticks the nail for me. Because vanilla for me isn't just a flavor enhancer which is you it's used for most things, but someone's like oh just throw a little bit of vanilla in that dessert or this dish or it's an enhancer it and everything. But then it was one of the most compact, complex flavors that you could have if you have good vanilla and also if you use a proper amount. So like right now, I've got vanilla beans from Colombia, these wild vanilla beans that I got from someone that I met through some cooks when I was up in New York and they are from the Pacific coast of Colombia. I've got some from the north and from some from the south. But they are really floral, they kind of have a caramely like toasted marshmallow flavor to them. It is really unique and they become one of my favorite vanilla. Unfortunately they're really hard to get because this village harvest about 40 kilos a year. And then only 10 kilos of that are actually of like really good quality. But then like I've got some Uganda vanilla I have had in the past some from Papa New Guinea, Ecuadorian and they all have very unique flavors Jomon. One things I really want to do is create this kind of tasting of a nillas of using also like some extracts or using some pace using pond on. I don't know if you're familiar with pond on a lot, yeah. Which kind of like the Southeast Asian vanilla almost but a green plant like green leafy plant,

I think you might have sold me because like, I would literally never come in and choose vanilla as the flavor of like anything in your shop. And I totally see what you're saying. I just like, I don't think I would do it. But you know, I bought vanilla beans for the first time in my life, like last year. And it was amazing how much it changed a dessert like where it really stands out, like I do a pot to Chrome. And it was always as like a butter milk one. And it always I used vanilla extract, sometimes vanilla paste. And like the first time I made it, where I steeped vanilla beans in there, I was like, Wow, that's amazing. I should have been doing this all the time. And it was really a totally different dish.

And thing is to it's like, yes, they're expensive. But at the same time, they you can you can actually get multiple uses out of a vanilla bean after I scraped them all which you get a lot of flavor from just the seeds, but then you stick the pods also. And then I rinse them after I dry them out. And then I put them in sugar. And then after I get a bunch of them, I'll grind them and I just use the vanilla sugar for personal use at home at that point. And so when I'm making cookies, I just use that vanilla sugar then for my cookies or cakes or anything like that, instead of having to use additional vanilla extract or anything like that.

Yeah, I think I saw Stella Parkes is a big fan of that. And I think it's like a footnote in every like serious eats recipe she did where you use vanilla bean. So I picked up on that a couple years ago,

because they are expensive. I mean, these last ones I got were like 340 pound, which is on the high end for vanilla beans. A lot of them are like 200 or so a pound 220 A pound but they're still expensive regardless.

Yeah, no, that's crazy, especially when you like I look at some of these recipes. I got the cocktail book zero, which is like the no alcohol book from the Alinea group. And so many of their things are like me, you're gonna make an alcohol free rum and it's like put seven vanilla beans in there and you're like, Wow, this is gonna cost like $400 to make a bottle of non alcoholic rum.

Well to make vanilla extract. I want to say for a gallon, you're supposed to use like two pounds of vanilla beans or a pound of vanilla bean it's it's a it's a really absurd amount when you look at how much it is. But you make really like I've got a bottle of vodka right now that I made you know extract with from some Mexican vanilla beans because I wasn't completely happy with how they were as far as in just in baking use just using them straight. So I just made a crap ton of vanilla extract with them. And it's delicious. But I've also put in there probably now a half pound of vanilla beans for 750 milliliters of extra era of vodka, which is a lot.

Well, I will definitely be by the shop and check out some of the vanilla offerings you have there. Now you've got me thinking about that. What are some of your favorite resources I always like to ask people like it could either be for the work or like your off time like what are you doing? Are you reading cookbooks? Are you like are there tools apps things you love?

Apps unfortunately Instagram and Facebook has become one of the best things I follow numerous different people like as far as the people I follow right now closely to get ideas from or just ask questions is Kali junk stick out of Sweden he just made a he has been an awesome Tala course that I've now I purchased. I haven't caught him throw it all away. But then Katie bonds or she posts stuff every day regarding baking, and her husband just any question wise or just science based stuff. Inspiration wise, I follow someone out of Colorado, Colorado cocoa pod. We're Chris Harvey also post a lot of stuff. And some of it's not even like, like there's other people that try to like ask questions like, Hey, can I get a recipe? If people just hand you recipes you never actually learn? A lot of times if you just read comments from people or read their captions, or just honestly just watch videos, and just pay closely close attention to stuff sometimes you pick up on things. I hate to say it sometimes you pick up on the recipes that are sitting on their on their board next time and you can read it actually if you pause the video or their notes sometimes but it's like it's very helpful information even if you don't have a recipe. Just be in the scene Notes. From people sometimes it's so helpful. Book wise. One of the best ones still is not pro chef, but it's the CIA baking cookbook. I know you're like baking and pastry fundamentals just like that. Yeah, it's one of the best just all around books. I still reference Peter grillings books sometimes as far as for chocolate work, because his goes into good detail, but not like complicated detail. Harold McGee's on food and cooking is, if you can actually read it, great. But more or less, it's just a resource to look at. And most culinary professionals know we'll know about it, have a copy of it. Usually. It's just also just reaching out to people. If you have a question science, most chefs will answer questions for you. Or other child tears or cooks or anything will answer questions if you have stuff as long as you're not like, ask him distrib like, hey, I want that recipe. What is it?

I was trying to smoke some white chocolate one time and I had some challenges and Francisco Montoya was like, fantastic about like talking to me just via Instagram DMS about it. Like I sent him some pictures. I talked them through the process. And he like gave me some adjustments. And I was like, super honored that he like took the time to just like, say, Sure, here's what I would do.

He is He was an awesome teacher. I was really fortunate to actually be in his class at school, but he was a fantastic teacher and just stuff that he was doing. I wish I had gotten some of his chocolate when he had Hudson chocolate open.

I got my

son sent to my house. And like cuz he was doing more like conceptual stuff, which he still is. I don't know if you saw the easter bunnies last year that he did that were made out of the 100% Cocoa berry chocolate made with like the entire fruit. I don't think I saw that. He makes a lot of his own molds. He also has a lot of resources for that this point. But like he made or he had the sculpture a sculpt this make this Easter Bunny mold. Like, they look like kind of like evil rabbits, I'd say almost like you would see in Monty Python. I know what you're talking about. I didn't see this. Yes. And then he ended up auctioning it off. But he made these really cool chocolate bunnies out of the 100% chocolate that was from cocoa Berry. But then like he just makes really cool just one off kind of molds that like whether it be pistachios or entre amaze that are not in molds that are just freeform and he is just a really good like inspirational person to as far as watching what it is. But yeah, he does answer a lot of questions. At the beginning of the pandemic, he actually on his blog, he posted, Hey, I can't give everyone money that I know like to help them out during COVID. But what I can do is tell them exactly how I used to ship chocolates that I sold it was a great thing to do like he found these air mailers from I think it's France, I have to find it on my bookmarks, but they you inflate them yourself because they come flat to you. You can inflate them with air, or he used to inflate them with argon gas during the summer because it has a natural property to insulate. And then that's how he was shipping and stuff. And it was just like using a styrofoam cooler, but it was filled with argon gas, which is actually was better I guess than using Styrofoam. Because also you didn't have to have the styrofoam coolers everywhere.

There's so many great people and those are the people I gravitate to online like the ones who want to be part of like a culinary community and share advice and tips and stuff. And you know, it's so different than the old school of like, here's all my secret recipes. And I'm not going to tell anyone about anything because you're my competitor

when I was at school, adults that went to 11 Madison Park for their externship. We're not allowed to take photos for their externship manuals or take recipes. Like they gave them like a recipe they could use for that externship manual. It was like top secret that you couldn't take anything out of there. So that was really weird. As far as when they

put out a bunch of cookbooks. So like, what's the point? Yeah.

But there's like, like, I mean, I've got like, I've got recipes from lto. Back back when it was open in Chicago, like, I've got recipes from a lot of random places that are like, Where'd this come from? Or like, but also it's like, When am I gonna ever actually use this? Because there's just like, some of them are just super complicated processes. And I guess that kind of goes with, like, people are like, Well, why does your product cost so much? It's like, well, it takes me a lot of time. It's like, I've given people recipes that people have asked for like, we used to make a pistachio, truffle that a lot of people love unfortunately it now costs like just to make it with being just to buy the ingredients for it's like$1 $50.75 per truffle, to make it so then I charge like $5 for it because of all the labor and everything that goes into it. And someone came in was like, Can I have a recipe for it? Like, sure. Here's the recipe, but it's like, the chances are someone actually makes it is very slim. Because the pistachio paste itself costs like $100 for a can pistachios cost now like$70 a pound chocolate costs anywhere from $4 a pound for the cheap stuff, for the good quality cheap stuff to $20 a pound for the expensive good stuff. So it's like, it's a lot just to sometimes buy everything for everything.

And that's without having the knowledge to actually execute at a good level. Yes. What's your favorite grocery store chocolate if you're making like a chocolate chip cookie or something like is there a brand? And the sub question is like, what are your thoughts on percentages of cocoa as far as like maybe a favorite? Like you want to make some really baller chocolate chip cookies and you're going to go to the grocery store and buy chocolate, what are you going to buy?

I mean, I think the only thing that's really available is like Toll House her she's a dairy Deli. So you kind of have to go to jury deli at that point. Because that's like, I guess the highest quality that you're going to really find like, if you're going to like Whole Foods You can usually find like Calico maybe Verona or cocoa Berry, I think usually at Whole Foods. But that's usually like slim to none. But I guess that's why the internet so great now because you can get the more expensive, good quality chocolates or like people like I started so I've started selling now like my chocolate that I actually make all the chocolate within box size now kind of in my store. And I was like, you're better off almost go into a baker like, Hey, can I buy chocolate from you, just because it does make a huge difference. percentages of cocoa. They're all a sham that the media and chocolate companies have brainwashed into people that they actually mean stuff. The only thing that the percentage of cocoa can really tell you is like almost like if it's dark chocolate, really the sugar content of the chocolate, like a 70% Dark chocolate is gonna have 30% sugar in it roughly. But that's really the only thing it's gonna really be tell you how sweet it is, I guess you could say, because the other 70% can be anything that a cocoa bean comprises of so basically, cocoa powder, cocoa butter, or them combined together as cocoa mass. So essentially, I could take an entire block of cocoa butter and hand it to you and say this is 100% cacao. Because it is it's just all cocoa butter, which you don't want to eat. So and that's one of the things I do I have a chocolate tasting class i i pull up these jars that have different amounts in it and kind of show people this is cocoa visit dark chocolate, this is dark chocolate with just some extra cocoa butter in it. White chocolate. So it's hard to say what the percentage that's best is yes, if you get an 85% or 100% Yes, it's inherently going to be more dark slash maybe a little bitterness to it a little like tannic pneus to it. But not, it's not gonna be bad if it's good chocolate. But then if you get a 70% like it's very so much. As far as the flavor profiles, the bean types, like certain beans have less tannins than others just same as like how coffee or grapes for wine are. They all are very, very different. So it's hard to say like, inherently, what's better or worse than it's all personal preference? Yeah, I mean, yes, like if they. So he will come in to like, I hate dark chocolate. Well, what kind of dark chocolate Have you had before? I've had Hershey's special dark. Well, that tastes like you're eating cocoa powder, because it kind of does what tastes like it just because they're not using super high quality beans. They're basically just refining them so much. They have no flavor to them. versus some of the bars I have there 77% That I have that tastes like they're like 60% if that means anything really, that don't have that tannic Ness that don't have that bitterness that don't have that harshness, but they have this nice sweetness and just nice neediness or fruitiness to them.

It just like everything, there's, I think more info than the general consumer is aware of like what you see in the chocolate world compared to like, what's really going on?

There is an amazing amount still that I mean ethically that needs to be worked on. And every company says they're ethically sourcing sustainable. And then every couple of years, something comes out like, hey, they actually weren't as ethical as they say they were. And it's like, when are we getting to this point when it's going to be but that's also reason why you're seeing a big push now into South America versus being an Africa.

This child labor, one of the big issues with the chocolate.

That was a big thing. And it's an ever ongoing thing, unfortunately. And just also just pricing wise chocolate should not be as cheap as it is. It used to be a luxury it used to be for the kings and queens and royalty. And then when her she started developing chocolate to be for the masses at five cents a candy bar, back in the 20s or 30s, whenever it was started, like a became this, Hey, we can have a chocolate bar every day for for a snack. But it's it shouldn't be that cheap because it from the time that beans are grown to the time I actually get it to work with is about a year. I didn't realize it took that long. Well between all the fermenting and roast, fermenting, drying, getting it to whoever is going to be roasting it, grinding it. And also because then they all already usually have a stockpile of beans already that they have to have in use already. And so it just it does take a good bit of time. And then even once I get it, I usually already have a backlog of chocolate that I need to get through. But at this point, yeah, we have to buy ahead of time. So we'll just have

a couple questions for you. Before we get out of here today. If you were any flavor in your shop, what flavor would you be what you had to identify as one of your chocolates? Which one would it be?

I think I always got to stick with one of my favorites is five spice hazelnut. It's a Chinese Five spice, which it's not spicy at all. It's like I explained, always everyone has Asian apple pie spice almost. Because most people don't know what it is half the time. But it's this kind of like, it's this flavor profile that just kind of keeps expanding on itself. The more you taste it, the more you eat it. But it's a really nice year chocolate because it's made milk chocolate. And then you get this little bit of nuttiness from the hazelnuts. It's just kind of as complex flavor, but that keeps kind of just opening up and changing as you eat it.

Do you think Chinese Five Spice would be good and hot cocoa?

Always? Yes.

I've never done that. But now that you say that, in Chinese Five spice is one of those ones that's like amazing when it's fresh and not good when it's like old and musty. Like if you have like an old container of it as like a weird taste. That's one of those ones I feel changes the most when it's like old so I go to like common market and just buy you know, a couple tablespoons at a time when I need some like really fresh organic good stuff.

It's actually just reordered some because mine actually just went kind of off. But it's also it depends on who makes it like you can either make it yourself or pens on who makes it depends on how it tastes. Some people want more fennel in there. Some people want more, especially on pepper corn, some people want more clove in theirs. So it really changes greatly on who you get yours from.

I just I don't remember which cookbook it is but they had a recipe for like they called like, was it Chinese seven or like Chinese nines, but it was like basically not just five, but they like bumped it up to like seven or nine or something like that. I'm still probably not gonna make it like, I don't know, I see all those things. I'm like, yeah, one of these days, I'm gonna buy all the individual spices and grind them. It's not gonna happen. Never. Well, do you have anything to leave our listeners with before we get out of here today?

Eat more chocolate.

Eat more better chocolate,

eat more better chocolate and just some more support small, small businesses wherever you are, regardless of what it is. We're all not Amazon, we all can't give free shipping.

Heard? Yes, I think our community especially has been really great. Like I've seen the City of Frederick, people really kind of rallying behind small businesses. I think it's great. I hope other people are seeing that in their communities.

I hope so like as small businesses here, we saw more people on like Black Friday time than ever before. And I drove past Walmart at like seven in the morning that day. And their parking lot was like a quarter full. And I was like, wow, what is going on? This is weird. But yeah, like it's an a day. It's wonderful to see people support small businesses and, and like it's not bad to support large businesses also. But in a day, we're all trying to make it and it's always appreciated.

That's what's kept my business going, especially this past year and a half. So, again, I'm super appreciative to all of the people supporting small businesses. Well, thanks so much for coming on the show. I love talking to you.

Thanks for having me. It's a wonderful time.

I will be by to get some chocolate I'm sure before too long, and some. And in the meantime, keep doing what you're doing because I think it's working. And to all of our listeners. Thanks. This has been Chris with the Chefs Without Restaurants podcast, go to chefs without restaurants.org To find our Facebook group, mailing list and Chef database. The community's free to join. You'll get gig opportunities, advice on building and growing your business and you'll never miss an episode. tone of our podcast Have a great week