The Business of Food Content Creation with Preppy Kitchen’s John Kanell

 The Chefs Without Restaurants Podcast with John Kanell Part 2

[00:00:00] Chris Spear: I have a question for you. Do you get caught up in the numbers? It could be followers, or podcast downloads, or even how many customers you have. It's okay. I'm pretty sure we all do it. A couple episodes ago, I spoke with Megan Kix, and one of the things that came up was follower count. And she spoke about how we should maybe look at the depth of our connections as opposed to the numbers, and I agree with that.

[00:00:24] Chris Spear: But what would it mean for your business if you had 10 million people following you? Last week I spoke with John Kanell, whose new book Preppy Kitchen Super Easy was released this week. John's built an incredible following, over 2 million followers on Instagram and nearly 4 million subscribers on YouTube.

[00:00:40] Chris Spear: Just from sharing his passion for food and his approachable recipes. Now I'm not promising you millions of followers like Jod, but today he shares what worked for him. And hopefully you can implement some of those strategies. If you're looking to grow your audience as well. This is part two of my conversation with John Connell.

[00:00:57] Chris Spear: This is Chris Spear and you're listening to chefs without [00:01:00] restaurants, the show where I speak with culinary entrepreneurs and people working in the food and beverage industry outside of a traditional restaurant setting. I have 32 years of working in kitchens. I'm But not restaurants, and currently operate a personal chef service, throwing dinner parties in the Washington, D.

[00:01:15] Chris Spear: C. area. In this second part of my conversation with John Connell, a former middle school teacher turned full time food content creator, We dive deep into the business side of food content creation. We talk about the importance of finding your own style, how to develop an authentic brand, and why proper lighting might just be the most critical element to your photo or video shoot.

[00:01:36] Chris Spear: We also discuss the realities of balancing family life with the demands of being a full time content creator. This is a shorter episode, but I think it packs a lot of punch. And if you missed part one of our conversation, it's linked in the show notes. It's not critical listening for this episode, but it does provide a lot of context.

[00:01:52] Chris Spear: So if you're looking to grow your audience, or simply want some solid advice on upping your food videography game, this episode's for you. [00:02:00] As always, thanks so much for listening, and have a great week. Well, I'd like to talk a little bit about the business of like the food content creation and branding and a food person being a food personality, if you will, because I have so many listeners and other former guests who are in that space.

[00:02:15] Chris Spear: So what do you have for advice about someone looking to start that we talk about advice for cooks, but what about advice for someone who's maybe someone like me, you know, like I work in the food business. I do a little because it's for my business, but what, like taking it to the next level and creating videos and maybe even transitioning to full time.

[00:02:31] Chris Spear: I know you had said just, you know, like, Get out there and do it. Is that the best advice? Just start 

[00:02:38] John Kanell: that is like, that's the first step because you can't just keep thinking about it and fine tuning your plan. At some point, you've got to try it out, see if it works or not. You know, if you were just getting started, I would really practice with the iPhone or your camera or whatever you're using and familiarize with like, how can I light this to make it look beautiful?

[00:02:58] John Kanell: Because honestly, if you're talking about food [00:03:00] content creation, yeah. One of the most difficult things is to light and style your food. It is an art and you'll see a famous chef or food personality posting about dinner. And it looks horrible. Cause it's like a normal person, iPhone photo, like in a dimly lit restaurant.

[00:03:17] John Kanell: And the expectation online is for things to look really like luscious, saturated and gorgeous. So, you know, I would go ahead and like try to get the visuals down. And you can have your own personality. It could be dark and moody. It could be clear daylight. It could be a beautiful afternoon, golden light, and you can create that in after effects to a bit, but find your style, find what you like and try and refine it because.

[00:03:45] John Kanell: In this field, that's not easy to do. 

[00:03:48] Chris Spear: I think lighting is tough, but we're at least in a day and age where that stuff has gotten less expensive, right? Like it's not that expensive to get some decent lights at home or a tripod or something. And [00:04:00] most phones, to be honest, these days take pretty decent video.

[00:04:03] Chris Spear: It's just learning how to use them properly. 

[00:04:05] John Kanell: Uh, natural light is your friend, find that beautiful kind of dark room with one window and perfect exposure that you can get a nice scrape of light coming across your food and making it look really beautiful. 

[00:04:17] Chris Spear: Now you clearly have your own aesthetic and style.

[00:04:21] Chris Spear: Do you think you always have to kind of stick with that? Like, should you try and figure out early on like what that aesthetic is and stay kind of in that lane? Do you see that as being really important as to kind of build your brand around that personality? Yeah. Absolutely. 

[00:04:34] John Kanell: I think you could change over time.

[00:04:37] John Kanell: Nothing should be set in stone, but find what you like. You know, that final speaks to you and you change day by day, year by year. So maybe you start off and everything is light and bright and very minimal and time changes and you want to have things be like darker and more saturated and much more cluttered and more lived in.

[00:04:59] Chris Spear: As long [00:05:00] as it's natural to you, I think, because there is the tendency sometimes to jump on trends and it's like, Oh, this thing with this person's popular, let me do that. But it doesn't always come off as natural. 

[00:05:12] John Kanell: A lot of food influencers who are very popular are really like, they're big personalities.

[00:05:17] John Kanell: Like they're loud and kind of, you know, I don't know, it's like they're extroverts. Yes. No. 

[00:05:24] Chris Spear: Boisterous. That is not me. 

[00:05:25] John Kanell: I am someone who got, had to be like. dragged in front of the camera kicking and screaming. And like, I speak on camera as though I'm in my classroom back when I was a teacher and I'm just trying to like be helpful and kind and like, we're all in this together.

[00:05:40] John Kanell: Let's make something happen. But I'm not going to try and be the big personality with a person that's not mine because I wouldn't be authentic. 

[00:05:51] Chris Spear: I think that's what I really like about your content because it's what I'm drawn to. I don't really like the, I've got the black. Gloves [00:06:00] on and I grab a 800 ounce piece of meat and I slam it on the counter.

[00:06:04] Chris Spear: I can't watch a cooking video like that. Like I really want to get in there and learn how to cook and make a dish as opposed to these very quick cuts, just like in your face kind of shots. And 

[00:06:15] John Kanell: some people love that. The thing you need to remember is like, you are not going to be everything to everybody.

[00:06:21] John Kanell: There are different audiences and you can find your audience. Some audiences love the slowest, most intricate drip of information. It's relaxing. You respond to it. You learn from it. Some people like the exact opposite. It's a very staccato set of cuts. There's space for everyone in between. Find out what you like and try and make that happen.

[00:06:43] Chris Spear: And a lot of these food influencers online do a lot of collaboration, but that doesn't seem to be your thing either. Have you done collaborations with other like people in that space or not at all? I've 

[00:06:55] John Kanell: done some in collaborations and they're fun, but I live on a remote farm in Connecticut, , so [00:07:00] it's not the easiest thing for me to do.

[00:07:02] John Kanell: That's one of the reasons I actually liked the book tour. So much because when the first one happened, I had just been on the farm for like years at that point with an occasional like trip to go someplace. And I speak to people online, but I never got to meet them in person. And when we announced the tour dates, I was like, Oh my gosh, is anyone going to come?

[00:07:24] John Kanell: Like, what if no one is there? I'll be so sad. And people did come and it was lovely because I got to like physically tangibly, like shake hands, see them, hear stories and like, You know, it was, it was a really lovely time. I love meeting people. So I, yes, I would love to do collaborations. That's your question.

[00:07:42] John Kanell: I just, it's hard to, to go places where people are. 

[00:07:45] Chris Spear: Yeah. I just wonder, are these people traveling or do they all live in like LA or New York? I think a lot of people live 

[00:07:50] John Kanell: in big cities. Like if you live in LA. That's a huge center. If you live in New York, that's a huge center. There are some cities in the South as well, where there's a lot of like food [00:08:00] content creation, but if you're not, you might just have to time a family trip or something and take a sidestep for the day to do a collab.

[00:08:07] Chris Spear: Well, in being married and having kids, it's very different. I mean, I know a lot of these guys are younger and girls, you know, it's like if you're single and in your twenties, yeah, sure. You can hop on a plane or a car ride and drive from, you know, New York to Philly to do a collab, not as easier when you've got like.

[00:08:22] Chris Spear: Other stuff going on. Life is 

[00:08:24] John Kanell: about compromise. Life is about trade offs. So you have the joy of having these children and there's more responsibilities as well. List goes on. 

[00:08:31] Chris Spear: For context, let's say you have like an eight minute finished YouTube video. How long was the actual shooting of that recipe? I mean, and it drastically changes, but hours, right?

[00:08:43] Chris Spear: Like to get like eight minutes of finished footage, I'm assuming it's quite a long period of time. 

[00:08:47] John Kanell: It is like, it's going to be at least an hour. People are different though, and some people shoot differently. Like, I like to have two cameras running. So one is tripodded here, and one is for [00:09:00] me, so it's like a detail shot and something else.

[00:09:01] John Kanell: That just requires, like, every time you change a setup, you're moving the camera and refocusing it, and like, making sure everything is still working. There's a lot of checks that happen, making sure the light still is nice. People will ask, how long did this recipe take? And I'm like, I have never made this recipe without filming it somewhere, so I don't know.

[00:09:16] John Kanell: It's always taking a long time. I made chocolate cupcakes from the book for a party we went to. 

[00:09:22] Chris Spear: Are those the dip and ganache ones? 

[00:09:24] John Kanell: Yeah. It took like 10 minutes to make the cupcakes, to make the batter. And I was like, I actually took some stories, but like, that wasn't the same as like, you know, doing a, oftentimes when I'm making a recipe, I'm also testing it.

[00:09:39] John Kanell: So, you know, taking notes. What changed? What brands am I using for this? And like, it has, it's like an intense list. So it does take a long time to make an eight minute video. And I think a lot of people don't realize that. And I'm someone who just talks off the cuff. You know, I can talk about food all day long and I have things to say that maybe some [00:10:00] people want to listen to, but a lot of other creators work differently and they'll want to script things out and have things like intensely researched.

[00:10:07] John Kanell: Like my friend, Max Miller, who has tasting history, which is a fun channel that. It's like melt history and food together so many notes and because he's talking about history, he really wants to bring a lot of things in. So there's so much more preparation that will happen for a video like that. That could be days of preparation and he'll only be able to put one up a month or something.

[00:10:30] Chris Spear: What's your release cadence? Like how many videos are you getting out between regular, like long form, but also like short reels? 

[00:10:38] John Kanell: Two long form videos per week and two short form videos per week. Okay. 

[00:10:43] Chris Spear: That's a decent amount. I mean, it's only four, but that's a lot when you're like doing videos. 

[00:10:50] John Kanell: I had three for a while, three long form videos, and that was too much.

[00:10:52] John Kanell: So we had to like, reel it back down to think it's more doable. 

[00:10:56] Chris Spear: Do you have people helping you with the filming? Or is [00:11:00] this like, you're a one man show? I have someone to 

[00:11:02] John Kanell: help me with the filming and the long form videos are sent to an editor. Just so everyone knows, like, editing a long form video is very time consuming and requires you to be super hyper focused on what's happening.

[00:11:19] John Kanell: Like, no one talks to you, no distractions, because you need to be, like, in the flow. I used to do it at the very beginning, but I was very happy to pass it on. Um, I still edit the short form videos, which Um, much more doable, but also like very persnickety in a way 

[00:11:37] Chris Spear: I edit all my podcasts. I've been doing this for five years and I've never outsourced any bit of that.

[00:11:43] Chris Spear: So I know what that's like. And I've had the conversation with a lot of friends who also podcast about like, when's the time and if, and should I outsource any of that? But right now, you know, when we're done with this conversation, I'm going to be listening to it. I make all the cuts, both on the technical end [00:12:00] and just how I want to chop it up and remix it.

[00:12:03] Chris Spear: It's nice to have that control. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's time. It's like time versus money, which is everything, right? Like where's my time spent and where's my money spent, which speaking of, so do you think you need to hire if you're going to take this serious, because I do have people who want this to be their business.

[00:12:18] Chris Spear: I mean, I'm assuming to get to the point where it's like, you just have to. Be confident in what you're doing and just say like, yes, it's going to take a couple of bucks and I'm going to have to pay for this help and just bite the bullet and go forward with that. 

[00:12:30] John Kanell: I think in general, people are like one man bands for as long as they can be, because it's not easy hiring somebody like in different ways.

[00:12:40] John Kanell: It's also a very specialized skill set you're asking for a lot of the time. But, you know, for the first few years, almost everyone I know. Worked on their own or like with their partner. So they like their husband was the cameraman. Like during COVID, my husband was the cameraman. We would like be with the kids all day long.

[00:12:58] John Kanell: They go down to sleep and [00:13:00] like, turn on the lights, like let's make a video. So like, that's. You know, for as long as possible, people will do it all themselves. And most food content creators wear so many different hats. They know how to do copywriting, food, styling, food, photography, editing, you know, videography, like the list goes on for all these things they can do contract negotiations.

[00:13:24] John Kanell: And then once you get to a certain point, like then you feel like, okay, I feel like I can hire somebody and I'm not going to be really stressed out about this. This is going to be a help to me. I'll have more time for something that's. Now 

[00:13:37] Chris Spear: I will tell you, I don't know what their interest level is, but your kids are getting to the age where they can maybe help.

[00:13:43] Chris Spear: My daughter did a video shoot with me last year when she was 10, and she actually held the phone and did a lot of the shooting for me. We actually, We're shooting the new trailer for my personal chef business and we rented an Airbnb. I did eight [00:14:00] dishes and we storyboarded out everything and she had a list of all the shots.

[00:14:04] Chris Spear: It's like, I'm making this when the alcohol hits the pan and the flame goes up. You need to get that shot because it's a one and done and do this and that. I did some of the food myself, but when I was in it, she shot it and she was 10. So your kids aren't that far off. 

[00:14:18] John Kanell: I was so excited. I sent this to the family group chat, but Lachlan took a picture of me like holding a book because I needed it to post that day.

[00:14:26] John Kanell: And like, there was no one to help me. And he did such a good job. He was like on a little soapbox. Like, Papa, I should be like this is seven. But I was like, Oh my God, it was like such a good photo. I actually had a much better smile because I was smiling at him. So they will be helping. They actually, they really love being in the kitchen.

[00:14:41] John Kanell: They always want to do things. It's for them. It's really fun. And you know, yeah. I love it when it intersects like fun and helping me. So like, Oh, what do you like to help with these snap peas? They all need to have their strings removed. Like makes dinner go by easy. 

[00:14:55] Chris Spear: You're still here? The podcast's over.

[00:14:58] Chris Spear: If you are indeed still [00:15:00] here, thanks for taking the time to listen to the show. I'd love to direct you to one place and that's chefswithoutrestaurants. org. From there, you'll be able to join our email newsletter, get connected in our free Facebook group, and join our personal chef, catering, and food truck database so I can help get you more job leads.

[00:15:17] Chris Spear: And you'll also find a link to our sponsor page, where you'll find products and services I love. You pay nothing additional to use these links, but I may get a small commission, which helps keep the Chefs Without Restaurants podcast and organization running. You might even get a discount for using some of these links.

[00:15:31] Chris Spear: As always, you can reach out to me on Instagram at chefswithoutrestaurants or send me an email at chefswithoutrestaurants at gmail dot com. Thanks so much.