The Cooking Priest - Father Leo Patalinghug on Hospitality and Connecting People Through Food

On this episode, we have we have Father Leo Patalinghug, who’s known as ‘the cooking priest”. Father Leo is a Catholic priest, and the host and founder of Plating Grace, which is meant to strengthen families and communities around the dinner table. He’s an internationally renowned conference speaker, author, black belt martial artist and 80’s breakdancer. He has released a number of cookbooks, has a YouTube channel and a podcast called Shooting the Shitake. He also defeated Bobby Flay on “Throw Down! with Bobby Flay”. Up next…he’s working on a food truck. Welcome, Father Leo. Please tell our listeners a little bit about yourself. How did you get into both the priesthood, and cooking?

But I had no idea that people would see that my love for food, and my love for faith, could actually be a thing. And so even while I was in seminary, I studied in Rome for six years. During the breaks, I would actually take cooking courses at Le Cordon Bleu. And so that's kind of where my love for food became a more technical thing. But I never wanted to be a chef, just because you guys work too hard.

It is a lot of work. But I think you guys work really hard too.

We can, sometimes, let's admit, as some chefs work hard, some priests do, and some don't.

I think it's really interesting, the idea of bringing people together around food. You know, you're actually the second guest in a row to talk about this. I just had on the show Hanan Rasheed, and I don't know if you're familiar with her, but she does the same idea but bringing Israelis and Palestinians together in the same room, to kind of break bread and talk about conflict and see each other as people, but you're kind of doing it more on the family level, and local community level.

It's where it begins. So, I'm familiar with her work because I'm actually a member of Chefs for Peace. And they are actually based in the Holy Land. And they actually are Muslims, Christians and Jews who work together in a kitchen with really sharp knives, but they prove that you can have peace through food, if it's not just about serving people, because look, you'll serve anyone if they're gonna pay you, but it's about eating with them as well. You know, like in most restaurants before they do a service, what do they do? They have a family meal, because they get a chance to taste test the specialties to be able to critique what would be good instead of that, or this flavor profile would work well with this wine. But it's just their way of coming together. We call that conversion...a turning toward each other. And food is the place to do it. So your previous guest and the work that I do with Chefs for Peace, that's actually the soul of food. And I think people are so caught up in the Instagram of food is that, you know, just taking pictures of it, they forget that there is a higher purpose, what we've got to do is not just understand the craft, and the recipe, but its origins, which literally is a lot more heartwarming and more nourishing.

And, you know, seeing the breakdown of the family meal over the years, you know, when I grew up in the 80s, we still pretty much had a meal together every night at home, and it was our chance to connect, talk about our day talk about, you know, sometimes the bigger issues in the world around the dinner table. And then I've just kind of seen it devolve into people eating whenever they can, because everyone's going in a million directions, and you don't have that time to kind of connect and I've really wanted to make that a big part of what we do in our house. I mean, it's still challenging for us, but trying to get the whole family together and just have that time, you know, and I'm absolutely against devices at the table. You know, no phones, and, you know, that's kind of where a lot of people are these days. You know, the kids have their phone at the table and the kids can get up and leave whenever they want. And I'm hoping to see more people coming back around their family dinner table.

Well, you sound very traditional. And that's good. Because chefs are traditional people. Even the modernist chefs are traditional. The word tradition actually comes from the Latin tra dare, which means to hand over a period of time. So even if a modernist cuisine will use like sushi and all of these chemicals to create these things, it's really reminiscent of old food. And so the tradition of food if we can use this phrase, is to bring people together. Unfortunately, politics has entered into everything, including the culinary and hospitality industry, where we're even seeing how if you don't vote a certain way, you're not invited into this restaurant. Or I will sue you if you don't serve me this meal because I demand it and I have a right to it. Even if technically, the customer isn't always right. So what we've got to do is see how there are going to be things that really destroy the culinary industry, and realize that the culinary industry is only an extension of what you have done at home. And so you're talking about how food at the table and the family dinner, how that's key. Well, why do you think a restauranteur wants to even start a restaurant, if it's just to make money, then fine be a franchise. But if you're taking those traditions from home and bringing those good things into your restaurant, that's what makes a successful restaurant, a stand out restaurant in many ways. And so I agree with you, I am probably just a little bit older than you, so I understand that family dynamic. But even to this day, my family still eats together.

It'll be interesting to see how things change after this whole COVID-19 pandemic. So you have a couple things happening. You have restaurants not being open for service. So there's that. And you know, with people doing more than carry out and take away, they're not getting that experience in a restaurant. But on the flip side, my assumption is more people are eating together at home. You know, I'm partially unemployed right now. So I'm not going out to work every night like I used to be. So I'm home for more dinners than I used to be. And then how does that translate? Are we going to have more chefs who've been eating at home and kind of enjoy that experience? And then bring that back into restaurants? I don't know.

And it's been a real challenging topic, for sure. And there's no one answer. There really isn't. But what we can do is maybe create some general principles to kind of help get through it all. First and foremost, to know that those family-styled restaurants, not the big conglomerates, those are the ones who are struggling the most. And if they are a family favorite, frequent them support them. They are part of your family as you are a part of theirs. But secondly, the idea of more cooking at home, I've been doing the whole plating grace movement and prior to that grace before meals for, I don't know, 20 years, and only now it takes a pandemic to just get people to actually eat together. People are actually starting to see how maybe this year 20 I call it the time to really get a better vision of the priorities in life. People have forgotten what makes us human is not just the ability to cook, but also to eat together. But it's that cooking and that's serving that makes us truly human. We're the only animals in the entire animal kingdom that will put ingredients together and get excited to serve it to someone else. Granted, other higher species animals if they'll feed because it comes natural. But isn't it interesting that we're not even doing what should becoming natural because we've been so busy and indoctrinated with this new narrative that says the more money I make, the happier I will be, when in fact, perhaps the more time you spend with your family and make that a priority, the happier you will be the way it is in the animal kingdom. Yeah, definitely. And I've really enjoyed cooking more with my kids. I have twins, they're going to be eight in July. And I found that they're also better eaters when they cook with you. You know, this is something a lot of parents asked me, you know, are your kids adventurous eaters, they're not that adventurous. I just find that if you involve them in the process, whether it being making tortillas and tacos at home, or pizza or something like that, they're more likely to eat it, it seems like every time they have their hands in the pot with me, that's something that they feel proud of. And they're more likely to try it than if I just put some random dish on the table that they've never had. Very true. So I wrote several books and my most recent book is called saving the family. And one of the chapters is devoted to the discipline because it's not easy to do that. What you're doing quick With your family, it is not easy. As a chef, you know, gosh, I could have just taken 10 minutes and put this together. But now it's taking an hour. I get it. That's why it's a discipline. But if families don't do that, then your children won't be disciplined. The word discipline does not mean punishment. It comes from the Greek word the sheep follows, where we get the word disciple, which really means student, your children are your disciples, if they don't know how to feed themselves, I guarantee you, they're not going to know how to feed somebody else. And that's why saving the family with this new book is really about making sure that they return not just to the dinner table, but to the craft and the discipline of learning how to feed, how to serve, how to cater to each other's needs, and really more importantly, how to love each other. Again, the best restaurants are the ones where you feel loved and appreciated. You know, hands down, you can go to a 500 Star, you know, like a three star Michelin meal, a five star reviewed restaurant and pay like 1000 bucks. And you could hate the experience because that don't feel loved. But then you can go to the local diner and the waitstaff knows your name, the cook knows exactly how much pepper you want, because you're loved. And that's the discipline that a family meal provides. So guess what, you might not necessarily be a chef in a kitchen. But you've got some more important disciples rather than customers to take care of. Yeah, definitely. And the whole thing, going back to restaurants is services, everything, you know, my wife and I went to, notably a really famous restaurant that everyone had been talking about. It was like one of the hardest tables to get in the country. And we went and we had the worst service of our lives. And we've always talked about how terrible it was. We were so excited to go and the food was good, but the service was appalling. And, you know, if you're going out to a restaurant, that's a huge component of it. I mean, the service can make or break the meal.

in a heartbeat. You are so

Right, you can tell me what that restaurant is in a confession. So I won't tell anybody else. But I'll certainly try to avoid it. But that's been my biggest beef with the restaurant industry. It has become a thing that is almost created snobs, and elitists and people who kind of divide us, oh, you eat there while I eat here. That's missing the entire point about the service and hospitality industry where you're not treated like like a guest and think about the word hospitality because it's rooted in hospice and hospitals. It's a place where you're supposed to be healed. And so if you're going to a restaurant and you're paying premium everything and not getting good service even though the food is good, then you're not really being healed or nourish are actually being hurt and wounded and being taken advantage of which is why part of my style of cooking is humble cooking. Just know, I'm not the most humble person in the world, we all struggle with pride. But I think that just by recognizing it, you could, you could be Bobby Flay. But that doesn't give you a right to be a shark. It gives you every reason to be more of a servant. And make sure that the fajitas that beat Bobby Flay that that just doesn't show up on the Food Network, but it shows up at your own dinner table. And, and then with that meal, you also get a message. That's kind of the culinary perspective that I bring to the table. And I come at it from a very similar background or, you know, I have a personal chef business and I'm coming into people's homes, cooking dinners for them, and it's usually a special occasion it's an anniversary or birthday, whatever. And while I've gone to culinary school, been cooking for a very long time know all the techniques. Most of my customers want a very bait, basic, more traditional, you know, lots of flavors, but they don't want a intricate plated dinner that has 17 components going into it. You know, they just Want a really nice cooked piece of seafood or steak or something with some sides and kind of for me rediscovering who I am as a chef and knowing that it's not all rooted in trying to impress everyone with these crazy techniques and weird ingredients, that it's just really solid cooking. And then for me, it's the service aspect. You know, I'm coming in, I'm setting your table in your home, I'm serving you. I'm there to interact with you and have fun. And that's what I'm selling more so than the food. It's the whole experience. Well, your attitude is what makes you successful. And let's just admit that the attitudes of the culinary world need needs to be checked. We need to kind of return to the basics of who we are. Nothing replaces the comfort food that you got from home. And the most delicious food has always been poor people's food. let's admit it, it's a taco. I mean, granted, you could use Wagyu beef and you could like cook it over some different type of cooking element and some acid and And create something amazing using tweezers to plate it. But it's eventually going to wind up you know where it's going to eventually just go through you. And if the experience is not positive, then it's not going to be a successful meal. And so what makes a successful experience? Well, I went to a fantastic restaurant. And they were known for just being snobby as get out. But I walked in there wearing my collar. So you get treated just a little bit differently, and immediately with just my attitude of saying, I won't have a good time. I mean, it wasn't like, I can afford this regularly. But I went in with the attitude like I want to get to know the server, I want to get to know you. I want you not to be like some automaton that's going to bring me out perfection, but someone who's going to communicate the message of the restaurant. And so by the end of the meal, even the head chef came out, and he brought out like some other dishes that were off the menu that he just wanted to create because he knew I was there. to have fun. So it's sometimes the attitude of the restaurant and the workers. But sometimes it's the attitude of the customer. You gotta be going there, not just willing to say, I get what I want, because I'm paying for it. But go there for a meaning, an experience and encounter of not just the food, but the people who's had their hands in your food that you're going to put in your mouth. go in with humility as a customer, and I bet you'll have a better experience.

And I think one of the things that's really interesting is right now, especially living in the time of social media, Instagram, Facebook, I mean, I love those platforms as much as anyone use them for marketing. But I think we're making food even more of a commodity than it already is. Because when you see the food influencers, they go in, they take pictures of the food, but very rarely are they taking pictures of the chef, the interior of the restaurant, they're not telling the story. It's look at this donut, look at this hamburger. Look at this intricately plated dish, and we're kind of missing out some of that if you disconnect the chef from the dishes, it's a very different story. And I just wish more people would be bringing the whole thing into their social media promotion and not just have their curated Instagram feed of all this delicious looking food without any context of the chef, the story they're trying to tell. And that's why through my podcast, I'm trying to get the chef's back into the the front and center. So they can tell their story where their dish came from, talk a little bit about who they are, and not just have it being reduced down to a picture of their taco or whatever, with tweezers. Exactly. I completely understand and I 100% supportive, you know, again, as a Catholic priest who has a food background and and who works as a chef on TV, with my books and presentations, people see me a little weird and see me a little differently, which is perhaps an advantage because that just means I'm going to catch them off their element. It's in interesting how the food trends have become more of a platform to divide and really to unite. Everything is a food competition. Everything has to be who can do the better job. But the best shows about food are the ones that get to the meaning of the chef's creation. Why did they create this menu? What was their inspiration behind it? And so there's always got to be a backstory. And you're absolutely right social media, right to do the promotions. I do food porn like everybody else. And I'll even maybe even use a filter if the lighting is bad, but I try to connect it to something more meaningful. And can it requires the consumer as well as the producer to make sure they're on the same page? Is the food important? Maybe that maybe it's the people who made it and who eat it are important. Isn't that what the movie Ratatouille was all about? Absolutely. Cartoon with a rat to just remind us of the basics. The only one of the most solid films about the food industry and the restaurant business. It's so funny that it took a Disney cartoon to put it out there, and a rat, you know, of all things, the one thing that we want to kick out of our kitchens, because it really shows us that we do have to have an excellence in craft and in quality, but also the humility of someone who we might not always be accepted. And that's what that movie was about, like as a priest, and as a chef, I was looking at that thing going, mind is blowing. This is like the Gospels coming to life for me, and the kind of work that I want to do as a as a chef without a restaurant. So how did you get so much notoriety? I mean, you seem to be everywhere. I mean, I've seen you on all kinds of news programs. There's been stories obviously of the books but when did that start that it wasn't just you were a priest working within your you know, small little world in it. turned into kind of a global thing?

Isn't it weird? It's very weird. It's very weird, very cool. It can be, it can be for me, it's actually been incredibly humbling, because it shows that there's a great responsibility. And sometimes I'm not perfect at it. I'm still a, I'm a priest, and I'm a human. But I'm also a chef. And you know how we can be sometimes, especially when we're under the pressure and finding ourselves in the weeds. It's very easy to just kind of lose this dignity that I'm supposed to promote. But it kind of started actually chef on on September the 11th 2001. I was actually at my very first priest assignment in Baltimore. And when these towers hit, it was devastating. Because the very next day I was actually supposed to be going to France, on a food and faith trip. Everything was canceled. We all know why. And that that very weekend. There were so many people coming to church, kind of, you know, I'll use the phrase hungering for something and community was an imminent Part of it. So after that incredibly busy weekend, I was spent, and I had already been prepared for a vacation food faith tour, that I just took a little retreat with a couple other priests friends, and I do the cooking, of course, we wanted to watch the Food Network, but everything was shut down for several days where they had nothing but a sign that says, you know, in light of the nation's tragedy, we just encourage families to cook together and eat together. And that kind of struck in all of our pastoral minded hearts. And the joke started was like, well, Leo, you should have a cooking show. And I just said that it was the stupidest idea I've ever heard, you know, but I paid attention to the fact that even when I got invited to family's homes for dinners, here's what I would do. I would show up like 20 to 30 minutes early, just to freak everybody out, but more importantly, to be part of the serving process. Yeah, I wanted to set the date. And I also wanted to make sure the food tasted good too. So I was in the kitchen, stirring it up, and I saw something happen, the formality of the meal became more of the familiar and the familial aspect of the meal, which is I think, what they were trying to do anyway. So taking that tragic event and the joke of the cooking show, seeing what I was already doing, someone came up to me and said, Hey, you know, we should film a pilot about you to see what would happen. And I, I said, well, that's the stupidest idea I've ever heard. You know, and I, in fact, I think I said over my resurrected body, I think that's what I said. And he did it, you know, with all the proper permissions. And it just started to grow and grow and grow to the point where I had to put some of these ideas down in a book, and it became kind of like a thing and even a best seller. And that's kind of when the Food Network reached out and said, Hey, we would love to showcase your online movement and online show and talk about family meals, and that's when it turned out to be the cooking competition. called throwdown with Bobby Flay, the precursor to beat Bobby Flay. And because I beat him, then things literally kind of exploded. It was just like the release of the crock pot, or they were the pressure cooker. You know, it just, everything just kind of went out. And and so I've been doing this now for so many years, that it turned into a movement more than anything else. Wow, that's super cool. What year was that with the Food Network? 2009. So this thing has had some legs because they'll replay it on occasion. But even when I talk about it, they'll people will Google it, and they'll watch it. And from what I understand from some of the producers of the Food Network, they said, that was one of the most popular watched episodes of the entire throwdown seasons, which went for seven seasons, you know, I mean, it was a long standing show. And so I think what people found fun was You know, a priest talking smack with a with an Iron Chef. Why not? You know, it's pretty hilarious. I've seen that episode any, any chance you'll go on like guy's grocery games or any random things like that, you know, people have actually asked, in fact, the Food Network has reached out to me and said, Hey, you know, why don't you just submit a video about this, that and the other and, and there was one time that I did and it was for chopped. But they were filming at a time that I couldn't be there because my schedule is booked a year in advance, basically. But if they ever asked, I would want to make sure that I wasn't doing it just to simply create the drama of me talking smack and talking down other people. But it really has to be a show that brings the best out in people and certainly some competitors do that in some shows do that better than others. But I'm not here to compete. You know, I'm really not here to compete and if there's anything that I want to win over, it's just hearts and minds, not an award that says hey, you won this, that and the other. If anything, I would love to be a judge.

Cool, I think I think that'd be an awesome job for you.

I would love that as a job because I'll be not only merciful. I would also be very truthful. Do you have any new endeavors that you're cooking up right now? I have so many it's a lot, a lot of irons in the fire. So I have the TV show, which is going into the eighth season itself. It's called savoring our faith. And I'll be the first to admit, the first six or seven seasons were done on a on a very limited budget with a lack of understanding of what goes into a Food Show, The seventh season and the one that I produced with my production team that's coming out this year, and it's going to feel more like an Anthony Bourdain positive, let's get to know people. And you know, I'll do some cooking, but that's not the point of it. It's more about getting to know people. So that's coming in the works and of course filming more shows. I was supposed to be in Germany today, as we're interviewing, doing three shows in Germany, but obviously, everything's cancel. I've got a new book coming out. It's called How to keep your college kids faithful and fed. And it's really just a way to make sure that college kids don't lose themselves and lose a sense of faith that maybe parents want to give to their kids. So that book is in the works as I'm writing it right now. We also started what is called the plating grace Academy. And the Academy is really a place to get fed body, mind and spirit. So there's a lot of inspirational talks and some religious things, some prayers that people can say if they're struggling, and then also a food component with live cooking demonstrations and recipes, our nonprofit group table Foundation, and here's where I would love your help, and maybe your audience's participation. We're going to be getting our food truck this year as well. And we don't have an exact name for it, but the cuisine is going to be international comfort food. And so basically, it'll be a variety of different sizes. representing different ethnic cuisine, you know, similar protein basically marinated, and all of that can be ordered as a stir fry with gluten free noodles, like a cellophane or a rice or a starch noodle. Or we'll turn it into a panino and maybe using cassava. So to keep it kind of that gluten free, but still have that bready texture, or turn it into a salad with just a bunch of mixed greens and some just like raw herbs, including eating mint, which people don't do, but I love having mint in my salad. You can see it's we

do you ever slide

Oh, yeah, I call it prayer time. It's the same, you know, it's so weird because like, I'm a chef. But then to market my business. I basically became my own marketing agency. Like, I have nobody helping me with anything and I have two businesses now. So you know, like, I've got this scrappy little podcast that I'm doing here. I'm trying to blog every day and put recipes on my website, do the social media do the food photography, it's like, at the end of the day, I still actually have to go out and cook for people. So like, you know, I think last night I was up until two in the morning doing blog posts and getting stuff set up for my podcasts this week. So it's Yeah, it's a lot, right. But I know you have a lot, you have a team with you. I mean, it takes a team to do these kinds of things. It's a small team, let's put it that way. It's a small team. We sound big because of the reach and because of the media platform, but we're incredibly small. And we're, we're working off what I call missionary salaries. You know, because I'm a priest, I'm not gonna be living in some mansion and eating out all the time and that's just not who I am. Anyway, so we have pretty modest everything. But you know, but that's, that's the gift of cooking. You can turn nothing into something. You know, you can take canned meat. And if if you know how to cook it, you could use it as lardon for carbonara So you've got to be able to take the small and turn it into something the same way we turn lemons into lemonade, but in my case, I say turn it lemon lemons into lemonade shallow. That's kind of where I go.

I like that style.

Yeah, who doesn't? Do you have a favorite food to eat or cook? I know. I kind of hate that question. No, I have it everyone. No, I do have it for sure. So just comfort Filipino food. If you've never had it, it's very familiar proteins, but very savory. And the Filipinos because we're kind of a mix of many cultures. We do like a little bit of the spice and a little bit of the salty but we also like the sweet and so our mera foods might be marinated with a little bit of sugar or, or a little bit of molasses or honey, but I'll be honest with you my favorite food is it's so simple. It's just it's it's, it's just basically pork belly. You know, like I just made it last night and just you know, low, long cooking and crisping up the skin. And then serving that with a basic starch of just some some flavored rice and, and something pickled as well. So again, you get the salty, you get kind of like that comfort of the rice, Jasmine rice with just a hint of some aromatic and then something pickled like in the Philippines. I love this. It's pickled jackfruit Have you ever had that before? It's called a Chara. I have so um, my best friend who's my roommate in college best man at my wedding. Ryan is Filipino Filipino American. His parents came over and his wife was born and raised in the Philippines. So, you know, I don't remember all of everything I have. But when I used to go to his house and hang out there, his grandmother was cooking every day. Like every time we were there. She always had something going. But now Filipino cuisine is the hot cuisine. Right? You see places like that bad st and DC you know, being one of the bone appetit like hot 10 restaurants in the country. And then yeah, I think It's interesting that's getting more mainstream attention. So I've even started to do some cooking at home. I just did an adobo last week for my family. And it was a big hit. Yeah, I mean, because it's very familiar foods, but just a lot more umami. I guess you can call it that. Or just, we would just call it well marinated. We're not afraid of soy sauce. We're not afraid of fish sauce. Like, what kills me is just watching all of these Food Network shows and talking about fish sauce and Tamar and paisa. And thinking, Oh my gosh, I grew up with that. But that was so exotic to some people. It was actually off putting too many people but, but here's why I think Filipino food is becoming the next big thing. Well, first of all, thanks to Anthony Bourdain. You know, first and foremost, but I think people are starting to recognize the Philippines as truly one of the original fusion cuisines. So influenced by Asia, so influenced by Island living because we're not really Asian. We're considered Pacific Islanders, but for all intents purposes, People won't know the difference. And then of course, we were colonized by Spain. So we're having a lot of European flair and flavors come into the country. And then of course, we were part of the Americas to some degree, you know. And so we all have these different things coming together on a relatively small set of islands. And of course, being poor, you make your best with it. And so we just like family style food, it's not always going to be pretty, like if you look at bad site, for example, I love it. They're still keeping their food pretty rustic looking. They're not using tweezers. Thank you, God. Yeah, one of our earlier podcast guests actually does Filipino food pop ups in Baltimore, and it's centering around, not just the food, but the whole culture and doing things like going to, you know, an art gallery or something and there's a DJ there and just doing kind of like fusion Filipinos. street food because he said, You know, when he started cooking it, you know, years ago people didn't know anything about it. And he was kind of like the one who always had to represent Filipino food and cooking. So he figured he just bring it to the people. So he's also a music producer. So the intro and outro music for our podcast is his own original music. So he's really this guy. He goes by the name Toyo Mansi, which is, you know, like the the sauce like the soy. Yeah, clemency and Toyo. Yeah, so that's his music name. His name's Dylan Baldo or Ubaldo. And he lives in Baltimore young guy, and he is doing these pop ups called color sock. So it's the collar sock pop up group. I love it. I would love to get to know him. I mean, listen, here's my biggest struggle. I don't know chefs. I don't know the food world anymore. Because while I'm connected to it, I'm not involved because generally, I'm always on the road. And it's it's frustrating because people invite me to restaurants but they're very it's a niche group. have food people that I relate to, I want to try to get to know the local flavors around me. And obviously with the quarantine, I have more time to do that. But I love hearing how people are first of all, representing their own culture. And only in America can this really flourish. I've traveled the world and I've never seen a more ethnically culinary diverse scene than in the United States of America. Thank God for that. Because America has sometimes been, as from a culinary point of view, a little bit of a desert. You know, we didn't have a thing, maybe barbecue could be the American thing. But now we're seeing fusion come together. And what I call a beautiful harmony. Yeah, and seeing people like Dylan who is Filipino American, so taking food from his culture, but then also bringing in the American as you know, incorporating things like breakfast cereal that he had on Saturday morning. into his dishes because he's not from the Philippines. So like, he's creating new dishes based on both his heritage and his upbringing. So you're seeing all kinds of really cool stuff like that here in America, and I just love it. And we're continuing to, to build this really new food culture. You know, I think, for so many years, America had a really bad rap for the food and I can't think of a place I would rather travel and eat than all across the US right now. Well, I agree with you. And, and America should have does, it was a very deserving kind of bad rap. And here's why we didn't market it. Well, number one, and secondly, we didn't, we didn't have a tradition that we were handing on to people. I mean, if you look at the tradition of American food, it was very basic food, boiled meats, boiled potatoes, boiled everything, because we just didn't care so to speak. But I think people did care. They just didn't know how. And so education is key to it all. And because America We do have the ability to grow just about every ingredient. We're we're blessed in that regard. Now what we need are teachers, and what else, disciples, students, people who are humble enough and willing to learn. You know, my mom taught me more cooking than even my instructors did in Italy. Because she was her palate is amazing. Her palate, because she could take poor ingredients and just kind of put it all together. The woman used dried milk powder, to create some pretty amazing things. And it was her humility. And of course my willing to be a disciple and learn is why now I think I'm kind of growing my own my own experiences in the food world. So we need disciples, and we need teachers. So what are you doing now that you're kind of stuck in one place under quarantine. We'll make it a heck of a lot of foods to freeze because you know, cooking for 100 really challenging. So I've actually, I had a 10 or 12 part series called cooking for one. And it's basically taking a pound of a protein and dividing it up over three or four meals with very basic, like a carrot, a bell pepper, one onion, as opposed to getting it in bulk and trying to teach people how to do it. So I'm actually taking my own advice and doing that. But I'm also doing a lot of writing. I'm doing a lot of interviews online, and also creating more content for the plating grace Academy. But what I want to do is connect to people like you and, and other chefs. Because I think we need to support each other to be honest with you. My work is just as effective as any restaurant is because I deal with large groups. And it's really been tough to not have that steady, large group income. You know, whenever I do my events, whether deal with food or just lecturing. It's been tough. It's interesting, you know, there's two sides of this coin. People say, Well, now we're so disconnected because we're in our houses. But I actually feel like I'm connecting a little bit more. Not that I want to be kind of on house locked down. But when you think about your day to day, you'd get up, you'd go to work, you do your thing, you're kind of sectioned off. And I find now doing things like this, like a zoom interview, you know, I wasn't sitting down talking to people having these one on one, deep conversations for an hour. And now I'm doing them every day, sometimes multiple times a day, and I feel like I'm connecting to people more. I mean, I'd love to be sitting there with you in person. But I do think there are ways to connect with people even if you can't be in the same physical space. Correct. You just have to have the right attitude to do it. And because you are in the service industry, you're sometimes the person who doesn't even get recognized. You're in the back sweating and cooking. You know, the waiter comes out and they bring the food, but what you're doing is you're allowing your original desire for the Italian Street to kind of manifest itself and why? Because we have the time to do it. And so what I think, even for chefs, in big restaurants, we're all learning something about ourselves. Number one, we sometimes maybe put the price of the dollar more than, than the price of family before. The more important things, we kind of lost a sense of priorities. But there was something natural in you that said, No, I've got to stay connected. So you're evaluating your own priorities. The second thing that we've got to do is to, to remember that food is very personal. And if we're disconnected from the person, then we're going to lose a little bit of ourselves. And this is kind of like a very deep discussion, because I'm trying to get to the heart and soul of who you are as a chef, which a lot of chefs don't do, because it's incredibly easy to just make your work define who you are, and that's not 100% the reality. So my work especially with the table Foundation, I have a nonprofit group. I work with two groups of people or serve two groups of people. First are the returning citizens ex convicts, I tried to provide a formation program and with the food truck, some part time work for a temporary training so that we can develop their skills and they can work with other partners for like a full time job. So we kind of want to use that as a funneling and training ground. The second group of people we've tried to support our chefs, people in the hospitality industry. And here's where people might be offended, don't, but get them back to their spiritual life, get them back to who they are on the inside, because it's very easy, especially in the when you're on the line. It's real easy to forget who you are. And there are too many chefs I know who kind of don't cope with their inner struggles. Well, so there's a high rate of, of alcohol and drug abuse in the food industry, suicide as well as divorced relationships. Just failed relationships. And so what I try to do is provide a little bit of spiritual encouragement for people in the industry. Yeah, for me, I had a very different path. So I haven't even really worked in restaurants, hence my love for chefs at restaurants. I worked in contract food a lot. And I've actually worked at, I think, for retirement communities that were all religious based. So you know, I had a very different upbringing in the in the food industry working at two Jewish retirement communities and then a Lutheran one, and then kind of a non denominational one. So there was no, you know, drinking at work, there was none of that. You actually even had pastors on site. I mean, I would have cooks who, on their lunch break, just wanted to get something off their chest and go speak to pastor Jimmy or something like that. And, you know, so I really love it. I think you can have this great cooking experience that's like a restaurant without being in this nitty gritty kind of restaurant. Type lifestyle. Exactly. And that's a healthy way. way of cooking. But we have to know one kind of important statistic from the CIA, that when people actually get burned out in the kitchen, the number one profession that they enter into is ministry.

That's interesting.

But it's it's common sense as well. And like once they've been burned out trying to provide for people, they go into something where they're still providing for people, but they also get this little spiritual returns and encouragement once again. I'm not here to make anyone Catholic or Christian or any religion, but I want to say that, don't forget who you are. And don't forget to take care of that inner you, that's supposed to keep you inspired. That's what that means in spirit. But people forget that in the kitchen because it's incredibly demanding. Your lives are so dislocated from everyone else, while they're celebrating you're working and when you're trying to celebrate. No one else is. So it's a real challenge for people in other sectors of the industry. But what you're doing, you're really, you you made some right choices because you didn't want to be in that kind of competitive phase. You want it to focus on your family, your career and your own craft.

It definitely started for me with work life balance. I never understood the whole idea that you had to choose between having a family and a relationship with them, or doing the thing you loved, if that was cooking. It just doesn't make sense to me. These people who are on their second, third, fourth marriages... their kids don't know them, just because they're out cooking every night till two in the morning.

I never want to judge that, because a lot of people will think that I am. But I am saying, if you're happy doing that, then no one is going to stop you. But you're probably leaving awake of people who are unhappy. You know, I always believe that cooking is a vocation because you don't do it for the money. Like not everyone is a food celebrity and not everyone is going to have major or hit restaurants with a success rate?

Yeah, almost nobody.

Exactly. It's like literally maybe 2% of anyone in the food world. The rest of us are literally, including myself, just making it. Just going from paycheck to paycheck. And more importantly, we're kind of creating some stability. But we don't do it for the money. We do, because we're called to it. That's what I'm trying to get to with the food world. What are you called to do? And that means that it's not just coming from you, but it's coming from a greater purpose. I firmly believe that if we want to change the world, it starts in the kitchen.

One of the things I wanted to do with chefs without restaurants is, um, so I'm 43 I'll be 40 for the summer. And I see a lot of people my age kind of aging out is the term I use and kind of helping them transition. So you know, I think being a line cook, even an executive chef, is more of a young man's game. I mean, you definitely have people who are doing it when they're older, but there didn't used to be options, and now seeing all these people like me getting out of the industry to be a personal chef, or to have a food truck or something...They're still challenging lives, but I think the balance is maybe a little better than working in restaurants and just seeing these whole groups of chefs stop working in restaurants to find how they fit into the food world that's maybe not in a restaurant. And quite often, it's so that they can have a better work/life balance.

Yeah, so balance is not only key to life, it's the key to cooking. And it's interesting how people can apply the craft to a product, but they have difficulty doing it themselves. And why? Because they just don't have the time. The consumeristic part of America just wants everything 24/7, so your restaurants are now open 24 seven, or at least fast food restaurants are. That's not healthy. And so what we have to do is understand that things work in cycles. What we've got to do is take care of the people, and not just focus on the product. You've got to balance that out a little bit better, and that's kind of what my whole philosophy is all about. I mean, we can share recipes, I get an Uber geeked out and excited about that stuff. But I care more about the people.

So is there anything we didn't cover that you want to share with our listeners before we get out of here today?

You know, I I'm always available for conversations. I always like meeting different people, and and even sharing a meal and cooking experiences. I think the only thing I would say is if people want to stay in touch, just find me at PlatingGrace.com. Look into the academy for whatever you might want to see. You know, again, it's a balance of feeding people body, mind and spirit. So there might be a few recipes that might tickle your fancy. I think what you're doing is amazing, and so I want to thank you for having me on as a guest, and just keep encouraging you too, to get out there and and bring people together around a meal.

I hope to do that for a long time. And we do very comprehensive show notes. So as I share this across all social media platforms, there'll be links to all your websites, books, social media, so people will be able to find you. Great. Well, to all our listeners, thanks so much. This has been the Chefs Without Restaurants podcast. As always, you can find us at chefswithoutrestaurants.com and .org, and on all social media platforms. Thanks so much, and have a great week. Transcribed by https://otter.ai