CD125: THE FUTURE OF NOSTR WITH HZRD149 AND STUART BOWMAN

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Transcription provided by Podhome.fm
Created: 4/17/2024 9:03:57 PM
Duration: 7580.352
Channels: 1

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Much lower than this, if Natalie were smart, as soon as this segment is over, she would

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sell all of her Bitcoin.

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Because if she doesn't sell it now, she's gonna sell it later at a much lower price. Well, VIM's what we call fighting words. And I think they're similar drivers for both, but let me introduce the 2, Natalie. Natalie, meet Peter. Peter, meet Natalie. Alright, Natalie, some choice words for you. What would you tell Peter? Oh, I know Peter. And you know what? Bitcoiners don't feel the need to constantly attack gold because we're not threatened by gold. And the reason that we have this failed fiat experiment

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that has impoverished our nation is because of the defects of gold. The fact that it's not easily portable, it's not easily verifiable,

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it doesn't offer instant final global settlement. And so you know what? Centralized authorities hijacked it. They papered over it, and we have a system of leverage and rehypothecation

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that hurts the working class. Bitcoin is immune to all of that. It is the savings account for billions of people that we really need and and can most rely on, and it offers that final global settlement that we need. And so gold is the analog version of sound money, but Bitcoin is the digital version, and that's why it's gonna be the faster horse in this race. Peter?

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There's there's nothing sound about Bitcoin. It's losing the race right now. Take a look at your screen. Gold is up 25, $26,

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and Bitcoin is getting clobbered. You know, there there is no flaw in gold. Gold worked great for 5000 years. The problem is the flaw is with governments, the flaw is with human beings, not with gold.

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But Bitcoin is is really flawed because it doesn't have any actual value.

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Gold is the most useful metal on the periodic table. That's why it's money. Now it has great characteristics

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that make it better money than other commodities,

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but absent its intrinsic value, it it couldn't be money. And Bitcoin has no intrinsic value. It's just a digital screen of numbers. Because And all of this is just a bunch of hype. Anything could be money. Right? On the island of Yap, they used to have big stone,

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stone money. Anything could be money,

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if people, use it as an exchange. And this is the thing But that's because they But here's the thing, though. You have to No. Bitcoin is on the rise. Wall Street has embraced it, and this is just a tiny speck. I mean, could you imagine could you imagine, Peter, at the rate, of of recognition,

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if Bitcoin keeps going at this rate, it's hard to deny it could go substantially higher.

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No. I just told you it's been dropping for 2 and a half years. That's what it that it what it means. All time high recently. And I think that decline is gonna accelerate.

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It it it it that does not keep going up. They suckered in a bunch of people. Wall Street didn't embrace it. They're just trying to make a buck off it. I mean, these big Wall Street firms aren't buying any Bitcoin with their own money. This is their customer's money that are dumb enough to buy it. They're just booking the bets. They're operating the casino. They're not at the blackjack tables or the roulette wheels. Natalie wants to customers that are doing that. Natalie wants to jump back in.

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You know, if you look at the short term, Bitcoin is gonna be volatile. But if we zoom out, Bitcoin has outperformed gold. In fact, when Hamas attacked Israel, since then, Bitcoin is up a 125%,

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and gold is up only 27%.

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So let's really look at the numbers that we're seeing. And the best thing about Bitcoin is, again, no one controls the ledger, whereas gold is really vulnerable to centralization

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and top down control, which is why we need a system that is a neutral place to store your wealth. We need a neutral system and proper even could blow your ear or your ear or your ear or your ear. Own boat. Why can't someone have exposure to both?

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Yeah. Well, first of all, Bitcoin has outperformed everything. So don't compare it to gold. It's outperformed stocks, real estate bonds, collectibles.

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Happy Bigfoot Wednesday, freaks. It's your host, Odell, here for another Citadel Dispatch,

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The interactive live show focused on actual Bitcoin and Freedom Tech discussion.

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That clip was from Fox Business

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this week.

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It was, Gold Shield Peter Schiff, failed banker,

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against Natalie Brunel arguing about gold versus Bitcoin.

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And,

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Schiff came away with the beautiful takeaway that

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Bitcoin has outperformed everything, which I thought was fucking hilarious, and I I needed to capture that moment. I also just wanted to point out that it's a little bit weird measuring Bitcoin

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returns based on

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when Hamas attacked Israel. I don't know why she used that as the

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the time frame. But, anyway, freaks, I have a great show lined up for us today. We're gonna be talking to 2

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prolific developers,

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contributors in the Nostril ecosystem.

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We have Stuart Bowman here. How's it going, Stuart? How's it going?

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Thank you for joining us. Absolutely.

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We have Hazard 149. How's it going, Hazard?

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Great.

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Excited to be here.

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So you guys are both working on a lot of different things, in the Nasr ecosystem.

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You both have clients that you've developed.

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Stewart has, satellite dot earth.

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Hazard has, Nostrudel,

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one of the best named clients,

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in the ecosystem.

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And then you both have been working on on interesting ways of

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kind of solving

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maybe solving is the strong word, but solving the problem of Noster is a text first

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protocol,

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text first com comms

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protocol.

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It it makes it very easy to to share text around the world and and interchange text based communications,

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but it doesn't necessarily solve, the media problem. And you guys

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have both kind of come at it from different angles, but also very similar angles.

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Hazard has this new protocol out called Blossom, which is pretty exciting.

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And, Stewart has a CDN where

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you just, like, pay in Bitcoin, and you can just host media files really easily.

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So I don't know what we're gonna talk about today, but I think we're gonna talk about many different things.

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I guess,

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I guess a good place to start is,

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the freaks know I just keep talking about Noster.

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Why do you guys

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put so much energy and time and focus into such a nascent protocol?

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I mean, I think Nostra is like

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I feel like Nostra is in the inevitable

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like,

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I feel like it's it's it's basically like the,

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it's just like, the fact that, like, you you can have, like, a shared data layer

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that is allows you to kind of build, like, a,

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sort of, like, world on top of

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data

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is the thing that see see, to me, it seems like completely inevitable that you're going to have a permissionless social media layer.

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But

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I I think we're, like, not quite as far to actually accomplishing that as it might seem because there's kinda 2 halves of it. There's, like,

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there's the cryptographic

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side of it, but and that's kinda the easy part. It's just, like, sign JSON.

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Right. And but then there's, like, the hard part of it, which is the,

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well, there's I think there's 2 hard parts. Like, the 2 hard parts are basically only 2 hard parts. Well, there are 2 2 broad classes of hard things. And, like, one broad class of hard hard things is, like,

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how do we even get anyone to care about this? And then that's kinda, like, where most of, like, the dev energies on Austria right now, it feels like. It's, like, people trying to figure out, like, you know, how do how do we get people to actually use AUSTR. But then I think there's, like, this little sneaky third thingy that is not really been addressed yet,

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which is, like, how do we actually own our actual infrastructure?

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Because that's kind of required for sovereignty as well as the cryptographic aspect. And, you know, Nostra, like, succeeded

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or I should say, like, Nostr actually got off to a good start because it had this, like, really, like, dirt simple,

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like,

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you know, like dead simple, like, you know, like, relay standardized transport layer, just a dumb pipe, sends and receives, sign JSON. Like, that was a super smart idea. But I think to make Nostra, like,

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stronger in a way that it can actually resist, like, a state level attack,

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you need to have some kind of

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peer to peer redundant

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archival

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recovery mechanism thingy. And to be clear,

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not peer to peer in terms of the delivery

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of the data, but to peer to peer in terms of the archival

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async stuff. And that's something I got really got I have I have to give a lot of credit to Hazard,

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on this point,

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because I've been obsessed with, like, BitTorrent for a super long time. And when we were in Madera, Hazard convinced me that BitTorrent is actually not the solution to deliver data, but it's a made solution for data portability.

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So It's not Yeah. It fixes the

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yeah. The no, sir. I mean,

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to to your points to the,

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it's the redundancy

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that is that that is the

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the missing piece,

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you might say, or, like, that's the more important piece that we didn't see before because, like, BitTorrent doesn't and I'm going out on a limb here because I I don't know I've been around long enough to know the BitTorrent protocol, but, like, there's a you could make an argument that the BitTorrent protocol doesn't work because it's peer to peer, but it works because everyone has the file.

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Like, that's why it's censorship resistant, not because it's talking peer to peer.

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However,

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to answer your original question, Odell,

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yeah, like, I I to be why

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I'm here, like, why interested why interested in Noester?

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Never really got too much into much social media, especially Twitter and whatnot. But,

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like, now that no Notion's kind of kicking off, getting off the ground and all that, like, it is

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the possibility it it's it's almost

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it's

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a hackable social media protocol. There's there's almost no

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end to what you can do,

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And not necessarily build, like, that's the that's the exciting part. It's like, there's there is almost no end to what we can build, but the cool part is, like, for everything you build,

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you can

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look at it in a different way. So, like, you can take like, the Zaps are a perfect example. Like, you can

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we have Zaps on every client, but you can build, like, a Zap dashboard. You can start, like, pulling analytical data out of this network.

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I like not that since the day is opened, it's a network that, like, there's there's so much analytics and so many interesting things you can run on the network

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that you would never be able to do with,

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Google, Facebook, any other closed network.

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I love it.

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Guys, this is a one man show here.

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I just do it all myself, and I forgot to play our intro music. So we're gonna play the intro music.

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I knew something I knew something was missing when I did the intro.

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What? This is

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episode

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what episode is it, freaks?

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And we've done, like, a 150 dispatches. I've never forgot the intro music, so I felt like I had to do it. Guys, do you think we sound a little bit crazy when we explain why Noster?

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Is it Noster or Noster?

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I think it's

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like Noster, you know, because it's like it's Portuguese. It's like the noise. Right? You have to channel your Fiat Jeff when you say it. Exactly.

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I I just use them interchangeably.

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Yeah. It's,

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Well, doesn't mean, like doesn't it mean, like, us in Yeah. Us. But I think that wasn't his reason. I don't think It wasn't I think that was, like, we pretend that after the case. Oh. It also sounds like it in Spanish.

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Right. I mean, I guess there's a lot of similarities.

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We can say that. We can just pretend that's why he named it that. I think I think Fiat Jaff was just incredibly lazy and and was just, like, notes and other stuff transmitted by relays and just made it an acronym.

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Yeah. Well, he

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yeah. In that case, it's karma, the fact that it's an STR at the end, and it fits so well onto every single client name. It does not fit well. I was, like, half joking when I said your client name was a good name. Like, I mean, I

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it Nostrudel?

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Like, what it does that get people excited?

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Nope.

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Otherwise, it doesn't get people excited.

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I'm like a big anti stern name guy. But, anyway,

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not It's, like, the best name.

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I, I feel like I kinda broke the flow of conversation. You guys are both at Sovereign Engineering in Madera.

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How was that? What was that experience like?

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I mean, I feel like I got about 6 months of thinking done in about 2 months

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or maybe maybe, like, even, like, a year's worth of thinking because, like, the ability to just, like, info dump on,

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somebody

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is and then have it be, like, reflected back at you is, like, super valuable.

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Well, actually, I mean, Pablo Pablo and Gigi and, Martin did, like, such an amazing job putting it together.

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And they I think they like, their whole one of, like, the main things was, like, the missions was basically just, like, how do we prevent people

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from, like, building the wrong thing for, like, 5 years before realizing that it's the wrong thing? And so when you're around people who are, like, capable of just, like, shooting down your ideas, it's the most valuable thing in the world. Oh, nice.

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Yeah. That was huge. Yeah. The,

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yeah. I mean, to sum it up in a few words, like, life changing.

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But to get be be more specific. Yeah. The,

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yeah, it, the, if the goal was, which I think that was one of the goals,

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to like prevent people from building the wrong thing,

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It definitely helped with that because the

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yeah. The everyone everyone there was so smart, knew everything. And so you come you you come up with this idea that's, like, half baked You you thought you haven't thought it through all the way. And then it was it was more beneficial to throw it out to the group and mention it to a few people and start talking than it was, like, try to finish thinking about the idea yourself, because then it would just be

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yeah. It was

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incredible conversations for coming up with ideas.

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That's something that's how Stu and I basically,

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I mean, I think day 1, we started talking about torrents.

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And then it was pretty quick after that that we decide that we figured out that, like, it probably wouldn't work with torrents and we need something else.

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Yeah.

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Yeah. Yeah. I mean, sovereign engineering is pretty crazy

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as a concept.

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I mean, I haven't met Martin yet,

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but both Gigi and Pablo are absolute fucking legends, and I have the honor to

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talk to them all the time.

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But, like, just this idea of getting, you know, some of the

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brightest minds in Noster altogether in this little island

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in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. I know my oceans.

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With, like, no money attached. It was like an accelerator program

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without, like, a fund.

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Yeah. I don't think that's ever existed before. Like, how like like, I think this is one of the things that people are sleeping on about Noster

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is just this, like, mission focused,

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like, aligned group of of people that are just like, fuck you. Like, I'm gonna build this shit,

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and I'm gonna, like, uproot my life and just go to this random ass fucking island and spend 3 months

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Yeah. And and try and do the thing. I feel like that's the thing that sets the Nostra dev community apart is that we actually, like,

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do things.

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Like, we actually like, it's like it's like a it's like a,

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we're trying to actually, like, kind of build something and see if it works. And

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the fact that everyone does like, the fact that we don't have, like, $1,000,000,000

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is, I think, a great

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kind of accelerant because it makes it to where you don't have the luxury of just kind of sitting around and trying to figure out ways to, like, degrade the pile of capital that have you you've accumulated. Because I because because I've been to, like, different like like, last summer, I went to this,

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like, decentralized web thingy

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out in the San Francisco forest, and it was, like, all these San Francisco people and, like, it wasn't Nostra focused. There was, like, some Nostra thing there, but it was just a whole, like, grab bag of a bunch of, like, shit coin protocols and stuff and stuff like that. And so I was like, yeah. Whatever. There's probably some smart people here. And there were honestly a lot of really interesting people, but

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I couldn't get away from the sense that the emission

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of most of these projects like Filecoin, for instance. Right.

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Years years years ago, when I first heard about it, I was like, oh, that makes total sense. Well, the reality of Filecoin

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is that they raised, like, a $1,000,000,000

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and now

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all they've done in the last 5 years is, like, sell, like like, buy, like, massive piles of, like, merch and everything. And I'm like, well, I'm glad that, like, the free coffee cup mug that I got was somehow paid for by your ICO in, like, 2017. Like,

197
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it is truly, like, trickle down shit.

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Like, it just infects everything,

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and the noster does not suffer from that problem.

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It's really interesting because I think,

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I mean,

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I think the Nostr,

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dev community,

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has probably been the first

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developer community to like spawn or to come out of like the Bitcoin movement, you might say.

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Like, because a lot of almost all the developers who, who started

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in who started working on Nostra stuff that either came from Bitcoin or were Bitcoiners and weren't working on Bitcoin or just had that kind of ethos. And so, like, it seems to have this,

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like, inexplicably almost like this this core of, like, I'm gonna build it and ask for permission later. Like, it seems to be the only Dev community that's like embodied that, and it's kind of like, you can kind of relate that to like just going to an island is like,

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I want to do this. Like, I want to build this. I'm gonna do it. And then, like, figure it out later or ask permission later. And,

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yeah, it's it's such a it's

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definitely the strangest dev community I've

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I've been part of or ever seen. Like,

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the energy is

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I don't know what

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it is. Were you guys both Bitcoiners first?

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Actually, I got into Bitcoin because of Master. Oh, wow. A deal. I think I'm a bit of an exception. You were a shit coiner first. I wasn't I wasn't in anything coiner.

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I was actually so I was I I was a Bitcoiner

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by necessity

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back in 2013.

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I wouldn't call myself a Bitcoiner, but let's say I used Bitcoin

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back in the day

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as a currency.

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And I, unfortunately, didn't save in Bitcoin, and I,

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I've always been super, super interested in decentralized stuff. I spent years years trying to build a web torrent based social media.

225
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But I've no. I mean, I'm I've always I've always I've I've been following Bitcoin the whole time, but I don't I've never been, like,

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around other Bitcoin devs and stuff since,

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last year,

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January of

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2020 no. No. No. December of 2022,

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I found out about Nostra,

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and I was like, what is this? This is sign JSON. This is the future. Where, you know and then I went to Nostrika.

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I didn't even have a ticket.

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I I published the first version because I has been I've been working on satellite for, like, a long time trying to, like, bootstrap my own protocol and stuff. And Right. When I found about Nostra, I was, like, initially, like, super mad because I was like, damn it. Like, someone already did this. Like, it is it's better. And so, like, I went through this whole, like, processing thing, and I finally was like, alright. Nope. Can't beat them. Join them. So I was like which turned out to be a super good decision, actually. But, anyways, I flew down to Nostraka in Costa Rica. I showed up, and I had actually published satellite dot earth, like, the day before from the airport Wi Fi because I had, like, finally got it done. And I didn't even have a ticket, but then somehow I weaseled my way in, and I met a bunch of people. And, actually, I briefly met Hazard there,

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But, like like, I think we talked for, like, a minute or something,

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and then, like but, like, we didn't, I didn't know what he was working on at the time or anything like that. But, anyways, this whole, basically, last 12, 14 months has been a very

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interesting journey for me

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in the whole space. So, yeah,

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the Madera thing was kind of the thing that capped it off recently.

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Over that's only because it's recently. There's a there's a whole lot more to come. Yeah.

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Yeah. I think I was like Bitcoin class of 2020,

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like most people,

242
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and then, you know, there's a little ways there's a ways before,

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I had I had known about it for a long time.

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Like, I had known about it, like, I found it, like, back in 2004. It was, like, a 1,000 no. I found it when it was a $1,000, read the white papers, like, oh, yeah. This is the future, and then proceeded to ignore it like everybody else said. That's

245
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what you're saying.

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Yeah. It's the what's the saying? You get Bitcoin, the price you deserve is

247
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very true.

248
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Yeah. It had the same,

249
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when I found,

250
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what was this? You got to be early to Nostr.

251
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Yeah. I I there was the, the Telegram kind of client,

252
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that had the

253
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cross site scripting problem that I I remember interacting with, and then there was, astral.ninja

254
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at the time. Yeah. But it was right before, the Jack Grants.

255
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That's where I like well, I found Nasda way before that. I think it was like 5 NIPS when I originally looked at the repo. Had the same reaction to Bitcoin like read over all the nips. I was like, oh yeah this is the future, this is gonna be a big thing, like this is so simple, and then proceeded to forget about it.

256
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Until, like, the Jack grants, and that's when everything that's why I got back into it. I was like, okay.

257
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Let me actually see what's going well, because there was activity, and that's where I was like, oh, let me see what's actually happening here.

258
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Yeah. No. I mean, the only reason I bring it up is because a lot of people

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like, I've only talked about Bitcoin for about a decade now.

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And a lot of a a lot of people think that is a negative of Nasr,

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that it was, like, seeded by Bitcoiners.

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But I kind of look at I think it's the opposite. I think it's a feature, not a bug. I agree.

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And it really is. I mean, I think Hazard said it's like the first

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child it's the it's the first child of Bitcoin. Right? Like, a lot of the

265
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a lot of early Bitcoiners, a lot of times, what they said was, like, the biggest impact of Bitcoin or one of the biggest impacts of Bitcoin

266
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is that there's a whole new group of people that are ideologically, like, bent different,

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and they are

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they have access to fuck you money. And as that fuck you money

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becomes more robust and is adopted more, like, they they will go and do their thing.

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And there's all these knock on effects that you can't even really

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comprehend or speculate on ahead of time. And Noster feels like one of those things. And I just wanna be clear to Freaks because on my

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rip with Cali

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of Cashew, I said,

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if you're still on Twitter, it means you don't have fuck you money.

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That's not an amount.

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That's the properties of the money you use.

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And if if someone can't separate you from your money,

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you have no rulers,

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and you can do whatever the fuck you want. And that's one of the beauties of Bitcoin, and I think that has pulled over into into Nasr in a big way.

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It's it's cool too because

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that ethos or that that,

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you might say what Noster inherits from Bitcoin,

283
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it's not just or it seems to not be just the, like the ethos or or the

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the mentality of the people working on it, the mentality of people coming to it, and the the values they hold. But it's

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there's a definite,

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like,

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like software design or architecture that's like been

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inspired by Bitcoin.

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I like the best way I could put it was like,

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it's like

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it's like, there's something there's like a focus on simplicity, which

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is not exclusive to Bitcoin, but

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simple and robust.

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Yeah. But it's not it's not for the sake of being simple. That's, like, no shit is designed simply not because

295
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it wants, like, for the sake of simplicity. It's designs it's like with Bitcoin where it's designed to be simple so that it can spread quickly

296
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and not like spread, like spread in the minds of the developers quickly.

297
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Right.

298
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It's such an interesting,

299
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yeah, that's what caught me

300
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finding Gnostro initially was like, or as I've kind of like learned more and more about Gnostro, that's what's really impressed me is like this concept of not simplicity for simplicity's sake, but simplicity

301
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for, like, growing the community and and spreading the idea.

302
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Yeah.

303
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As I said, it seems to be inherited from Bitcoin.

304
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So, enough enough about Bitcoin. You guys went to Sovereign Engineering. You came out with a renewed focus.

305
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What is that focus? What are you guys what are you guys working on right now? What is your perspective on Noster?

306
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Where are we heading?

307
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Well,

308
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right now, we're both working on the satellite stack,

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the new because, like I said, satellite's been a web client, but

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now me and Hazard are building a,

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kind of, like, the simplest way to describe it would be, like, Discord,

312
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but for,

313
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because,

314
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you know, like, I I think somehow, like, a Discord server has become like

315
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like, everyone has a Discord server now. Like, even, like,

316
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like, large companies, it's, like, terminal support. Like, it's it it like, somehow, this thing that was, like, for video games became, like, the de facto,

317
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group

318
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app. Right?

319
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So it's kind of like,

320
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you know, Discord server is not really like a server. It's

321
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like I don't know how many servers Discord has, but it's not your server. Right. So Completely closed source controlled.

322
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Yeah. A Discord server is just like a term that means it's your little space, but you don't actually own the server. So,

323
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you know, I think Nostra can do that because this kind of ties into the whole, like, owning your infrastructure thing.

324
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The new version of satellite or I should say it's not, like, the new version, but, like, the deeper version of satellite is going to be

325
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a Discord server that is just a server that you actually it was like it's like if a Discord server was actually your server

326
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and you had, all the benefits of cryptographic identity,

327
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and,

328
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the ability to host your own

329
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media. And that's why

330
00:27:47.530 --> 00:27:51.550
the blossom thing is, like, super, super, super important is because,

331
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like, if you don't host your own media,

332
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then you're not, you can't really own your,

333
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like,

334
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infrastructure.

335
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And if you don't own your infrastructure, you're not really sovereign. And so I'm really interested in trying to transform

336
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trying to project this idea of self sovereignty into a group

337
00:28:11.515 --> 00:28:24.730
level of organization. Because, like, no, sir I sort of almost think of it like there's, like, this analogy where, like, you know, you always say, like, not your keys, not your coins. Right. Bitcoin. Well, not the Nostra version of that is, like, not your insect, not your notes.

338
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And then I think the community version of that is, like, not your well, there's 2 things. It's not your insect, not your community,

339
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but it's also not your infrastructure, not your community. So, like, the because when you're communicating with people, you need to have you need to own the actual,

340
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means of communication.

341
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So

342
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that that it's a pretty big problem space. And I I think, like,

343
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the I mean, it sounds kinda crazy, but I really think that the end game of this all these online community building stuff, community is almost too narrow of a term. It's more like an organization or, like, even like a state basically in some in some like, just like from a from a modeling sense, it's kind of like a way of creating

344
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some type of

345
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governance or curation of some aspect of the world

346
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that is now

347
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kind of, like,

348
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coming to sort of eclipse the the physical world that we're living in. Like, you know, because, like, we're all like, the all mine What? It depends. There's there's a difference between,

349
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a community and a state in that,

350
00:29:31.020 --> 00:29:32.720
the community doesn't really have

351
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governance rules. They don't really do anything outside, like, community mostly just covers, like, communication between individuals and then,

352
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a governance or a company or

353
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an organization would be

354
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communication plus

355
00:29:47.885 --> 00:29:55.105
a direction you might say or something, a focus? On a permission structure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But but geared towards action,

356
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mostly, I imagine. Yeah. And there's this kind of paradox

357
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in, I think, the way that,

358
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like, there's this kind of polarity between these totally decentralized things and then centralized hierarchical things. And I think that the integration of those two opposite things is really powerful

359
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kind of idea

360
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because

361
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you kind of need

362
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hierarchies in some way to get things done

363
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because, like, you see groups that have effective leaders actually are able to accomplish things. Because, otherwise, like, corporations wouldn't be structured that way or, like, teams wouldn't be structured that way or, you know, there's some kind of mission aligned

364
00:30:33.815 --> 00:30:45.750
leader that is good for a person or good for a group. But then, like, the danger with that type of architecture is that you don't can't get rid of the bad leaders. And so you need to somehow have this architecture where you have these little

365
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hierarchies that are embedded in a decentralized

366
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context where, like,

367
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the context itself

368
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serves as the final judge of who's doing a good job.

369
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And the way you can create forkable communities on Nostr

370
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is super powerful. And we've I've been, you know, me and Hazard both implemented,

371
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this NIP 72 thing, which was an attempt to create these forkable Reddit style communities on Nostra. But I found it quite limiting

372
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to have

373
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those communities only defined abstractly while still being

374
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rely on other people's infrastructure. So I think there's a need to sort of marry and integrate

375
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the infrastructure of the community with the permission governance of the community so that when you fork, you can, like, almost like a migrate or export all this stuff to a new server so you can jump infrastructure. And there's a lot of real interesting stuff.

376
00:31:38.140 --> 00:31:41.260
The infrastructure is definitely the key there because

377
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yeah, I mean,

378
00:31:44.044 --> 00:31:45.024
I don't think I ever

379
00:31:45.404 --> 00:31:48.225
the NIPS 72 Communities, we did we did both, I think,

380
00:31:48.765 --> 00:31:51.345
no, there's other clients that implement NIPS 72

381
00:31:51.710 --> 00:31:57.010
communities, but both of our clients have like the, the kind of Reddit focus of the community.

382
00:31:58.830 --> 00:32:00.315
And, yeah, both of the,

383
00:32:01.434 --> 00:32:04.575
it probably wouldn't be a stretch to say that both of our clients don't implement it well.

384
00:32:07.195 --> 00:32:10.000
And, yeah, I think, as you mentioned, like that,

385
00:32:10.560 --> 00:32:16.900
the infrastructure is the key. It's not something you can because NIP 72, the way the communities are

386
00:32:17.360 --> 00:32:18.900
structured in the NIP and whatnot,

387
00:32:19.280 --> 00:32:20.525
is it kind of,

388
00:32:21.625 --> 00:32:24.685
ignores infrastructure. It's just like, oh, it's going to be published to a relay,

389
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a few relays, and then it'll be loaded from those a few relays.

390
00:32:28.380 --> 00:32:28.880
But,

391
00:32:29.420 --> 00:32:31.920
yeah, there's something about it, like, you can't ignore infrastructure.

392
00:32:32.620 --> 00:32:37.840
What is NIP, like, for people that are not following all the NIPS? What is NIPS 72?

393
00:32:39.805 --> 00:32:40.785
Oh, you can Moderated

394
00:32:41.325 --> 00:32:42.385
moderated communities,

395
00:32:43.005 --> 00:32:51.590
on top of Noister. But what does it dictate? It dictates, like, a specific set of relays that that community is using? Or It's like it's like a subreddit song Nostr.

396
00:32:52.130 --> 00:32:56.025
Okay. Yeah. It's it's a kind of a moderated context on Noster.

397
00:32:57.125 --> 00:32:59.845
And, yeah, it specifies the relays that the,

398
00:33:00.325 --> 00:33:00.825
community,

399
00:33:02.165 --> 00:33:03.065
exists on,

400
00:33:04.090 --> 00:33:11.045
but they're kind they're, there's nothing specialized about the relay. The relay is just used as kind of a data store or an event store.

401
00:33:11.765 --> 00:33:12.265
Yeah.

402
00:33:13.045 --> 00:33:16.025
Got it. So the idea with the new satellite is that you're gonna have,

403
00:33:17.045 --> 00:33:20.585
your own, like, a relay just a community is a relay.

404
00:33:20.920 --> 00:33:28.780
And this is kind of, like, reaching way back to the original idea of Nostra, which is that there's these kind of specialized relays that are

405
00:33:29.320 --> 00:33:31.095
kind of groups unto themselves.

406
00:33:31.635 --> 00:33:41.020
And you can, of course, be in a bunch of overlapping groups, but the relay is this is like a central idea. And I think it was just too complicated to try to build groups on top

407
00:33:41.800 --> 00:33:48.615
of relays while treating them all the same. It just makes sense to actually connect the infrastructure to the group because then you can do super cool things like

408
00:33:48.915 --> 00:33:55.815
like, with the new satellite, you'll be able to have like, every relay will have every community relay kind of has, like, a blossom server

409
00:33:57.060 --> 00:34:07.065
integrated with it. So that, like, if you join so if you join a community, you can get you can join in a community and they can you can get permission to upload files onto their infrastructure because

410
00:34:07.365 --> 00:34:08.744
you have to align the incentives

411
00:34:09.204 --> 00:34:12.665
of the person who's deciding what data gets hosted into the community

412
00:34:13.110 --> 00:34:23.015
and the person who's actually hosting the data. Like, those should be the same person because if I wanna start some community that hosts really questionable stuff that might be illegal, I can't ask another person's,

413
00:34:23.955 --> 00:34:32.010
to host that, like, in their on their server. So you I need to take responsibility from that so for that. So I think that's a probably a cleaner thing.

414
00:34:32.790 --> 00:34:35.130
Well, it's interesting, as you mentioned, the,

415
00:34:37.910 --> 00:34:39.145
the the infrastructure

416
00:34:40.085 --> 00:34:42.905
might not be critical to create kind of a community,

417
00:34:43.605 --> 00:34:44.825
environment on Noester,

418
00:34:45.845 --> 00:34:50.369
because SNP 72 for, for everything it's lacking, does kind of function.

419
00:34:52.030 --> 00:34:57.595
Well, those type of communities, they do seem to kind of function despite what it's lacking in the protocol level. But,

420
00:34:58.055 --> 00:35:06.260
once you do add infrastructure or you start like, you make infrastructure part of a community in the sense that, you know, the community has a server, the community has,

421
00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:11.460
as you mentioned, like a, like a blob server or something to serve the media,

422
00:35:12.454 --> 00:35:13.275
and all that.

423
00:35:13.974 --> 00:35:18.075
You can start doing a lot more once you have access to the infrastructure.

424
00:35:18.694 --> 00:35:20.315
They unlock so many things,

425
00:35:21.410 --> 00:35:22.710
because you don't have to.

426
00:35:23.250 --> 00:35:30.325
The downside about Relay is that it's running on someone else's computer or someone else's server. And so you're always rate limited.

427
00:35:30.625 --> 00:35:31.444
You're always,

428
00:35:32.785 --> 00:35:42.070
you always have to ask permission in some sense to read and write to their relay. Yeah. But if you're yeah. So, like, that maybe that's why the communities need,

429
00:35:42.610 --> 00:35:58.720
like, sovereign infrastructure is so that you can, there's a lot of operations in community that's more than just like, I wanna put one event up or take one event down. And so maybe you need something where you just, you don't need to ask permission, you just need to run something against the database. You just need to crunch some numbers without ask asking,

430
00:35:59.680 --> 00:36:00.925
asking a relay to

431
00:36:01.885 --> 00:36:07.505
serve you up a few 1,000 events or something. Yeah. And I think aside from the kind of, like, organizational

432
00:36:08.800 --> 00:36:13.700
benefits that come with this, there's also just, like, the simple thing of just trying to make

433
00:36:14.240 --> 00:36:14.740
Nostra

434
00:36:15.119 --> 00:36:16.500
just completely bulletproof.

435
00:36:17.119 --> 00:36:23.405
Like, you know, because it's I mean, I don't know how long it's gonna be, but I after living through COVID times,

436
00:36:24.185 --> 00:36:26.285
I feel like it's completely inevitable

437
00:36:26.630 --> 00:36:35.130
that there's gonna be some it's more of like a question of, like, when than if that there's gonna be some kind of thing where people start getting deplatformed

438
00:36:36.075 --> 00:36:38.015
and need to fall back to

439
00:36:38.635 --> 00:36:39.615
a kind of

440
00:36:40.075 --> 00:36:41.935
so type of social media that

441
00:36:42.955 --> 00:36:43.455
is

442
00:36:43.755 --> 00:36:44.735
completely uncensorable.

443
00:36:45.420 --> 00:36:52.079
And I think, like, there's it's it's not just freedom of speech that matters. It's also freedom of association

444
00:36:52.859 --> 00:36:54.055
because if you can't

445
00:36:55.015 --> 00:36:55.835
create groups

446
00:36:56.295 --> 00:36:57.595
and kind of, like,

447
00:36:59.815 --> 00:37:01.434
you know, like, organize

448
00:37:01.815 --> 00:37:10.184
group activities and stuff and organize movements, then you do you you you're never gonna have as much political power as people who are able to do that. So you

449
00:37:10.565 --> 00:37:15.944
need, I guess, kind of, like, one of, like, the large part of the mission is just try to make this completely

450
00:37:16.484 --> 00:37:16.984
indestructible

451
00:37:17.285 --> 00:37:44.580
to where, like, kinda like Bitcoin where, like, even if the US government was fully aligned against it, good luck turning it off. I think Nostra needs to be brought to that same level of security because and right now, I don't think it's quite there yet because there's a few relays that everyone uses. They're like the main you know, there's like a dozen or something. I I mean, I use them because my whole idea is I just wanna broadcast it to the most number of people. But Right. It won't be too hard. I mean, it it would still be difficult, but it would not be impossible

452
00:37:45.015 --> 00:37:45.835
to take down those

453
00:37:46.935 --> 00:37:50.955
centralized points of things because we all see this with BitTorrent. Like, even BitTorrent trackers

454
00:37:51.655 --> 00:38:00.010
are centralized points of failure and you can you can whack a mole those things and you could you could degrade the utility of Nostra to the point that it wouldn't be a viable alternative,

455
00:38:01.145 --> 00:38:07.565
with in in with the current architecture. And I do think it's there's still gonna be global relays in the future, but they're gonna be more discovery

456
00:38:07.865 --> 00:38:11.830
bootstrap kind of relays that are gonna point toward these more decentralized

457
00:38:12.850 --> 00:38:19.110
community group relays that are just, you know, there's like I want there to be, like, a 100,000 of them running on everyone's MacBook

458
00:38:19.435 --> 00:38:24.095
all over the world. Like, good luck turning that off. So I think that would really change

459
00:38:24.795 --> 00:38:28.255
that could real if you had just completely unsensurable media,

460
00:38:28.710 --> 00:38:29.210
video,

461
00:38:29.510 --> 00:38:30.010
voice,

462
00:38:30.310 --> 00:38:31.849
you know, that 100,000

463
00:38:32.310 --> 00:38:36.650
member groups, that that could actually be a a force in the world to

464
00:38:37.425 --> 00:38:41.605
project some type of power and, you know Well, that's that's the fun part,

465
00:38:41.985 --> 00:38:49.830
about Noister is that and specifically that, because I I I share the kind of the same vision, the way you mentioned Stu, is that, like, the concept of,

466
00:38:51.030 --> 00:38:55.535
borrowing, you might say, or taking the concept of a Bitcoin full node and

467
00:38:56.635 --> 00:38:58.415
or just a private relay or just,

468
00:38:58.955 --> 00:39:04.260
kind of making the concept a loose concept of like a Nostra full node. And that all that means is just a backup.

469
00:39:04.640 --> 00:39:06.340
But the cool part is, is,

470
00:39:08.240 --> 00:39:09.700
that leans into

471
00:39:10.295 --> 00:39:12.635
what actually makes Gnostr uncensorable.

472
00:39:13.335 --> 00:39:15.915
Like the cool part about it is like, like, Gnostr's,

473
00:39:16.375 --> 00:39:22.240
it's not unsensible because you can't take down the relays. Like it's not unsensible because like we're talking over Tor or something.

474
00:39:22.540 --> 00:39:27.520
We're like an uncensorable community, like we're talking over DNS, we can just lose the DNS name tomorrow.

475
00:39:28.095 --> 00:39:32.755
It's uncensorable because you can, with the cryptographic signatures, you can re upload everything.

476
00:39:33.535 --> 00:39:35.315
So, if you have enough backups,

477
00:39:36.414 --> 00:39:36.860
like

478
00:39:37.260 --> 00:39:43.040
it's it's kind of funny in that it borrows that from Bitcoin. If you have enough backups, if you have enough copies, it's uncensorable.

479
00:39:43.340 --> 00:39:46.785
It doesn't matter if the communication method can be cut off

480
00:39:47.345 --> 00:39:49.924
because you just eventually need to reestablish communication,

481
00:39:50.305 --> 00:39:53.525
and now you have everything back or majority of it.

482
00:39:54.390 --> 00:39:58.010
And So maybe you should talk about hyper DHT because Yeah.

483
00:39:58.630 --> 00:40:02.650
I feel like that's something that is gonna make the transport layer pretty bulletproof as well.

484
00:40:04.545 --> 00:40:05.765
Yeah. That's that's,

485
00:40:06.705 --> 00:40:09.205
that we've been kinda messing around with that a little bit.

486
00:40:10.145 --> 00:40:15.640
Kind of a hypercore I guess it's called compare now, but, hypercore, hyper DHT, and stuff like that.

487
00:40:16.900 --> 00:40:17.140
I

488
00:40:17.700 --> 00:40:19.000
it's it's still magic.

489
00:40:20.660 --> 00:40:21.940
Still magic to me. But,

490
00:40:22.875 --> 00:40:30.950
for the purposes of, like, synchronizing these full nodes between each other or just making kind of permissionless connections between these full nodes, or

491
00:40:31.330 --> 00:40:31.990
or just

492
00:40:32.370 --> 00:40:35.350
honestly the utility of it. The ability to have a,

493
00:40:36.130 --> 00:40:38.630
I should I guess I should explain what it is from

494
00:40:39.405 --> 00:40:40.145
what I've seen.

495
00:40:41.165 --> 00:40:41.665
Hypercore

496
00:40:41.965 --> 00:40:43.345
and the pair stack,

497
00:40:43.725 --> 00:40:47.505
from what I've seen and what I've read up up to this point is kind of a,

498
00:40:48.300 --> 00:40:50.400
it's got a peer to peer application architecture,

499
00:40:51.260 --> 00:40:53.359
with like data storage built in and,

500
00:40:54.540 --> 00:40:58.675
peer to peer synchronization built in and all that stuff. I have not looked too much

501
00:40:59.055 --> 00:41:09.859
at that level of it. I've mostly gone down to the lower level of the DHT which is the, the way the hyper nodes actually make connections to each other. And that's

502
00:41:10.640 --> 00:41:13.780
honestly what I think is the coolest part is it's, it's almost a,

503
00:41:16.105 --> 00:41:17.965
the Hyper DHT is it's a little

504
00:41:18.265 --> 00:41:20.365
I'm not sure how it works, but it's a little, program.

505
00:41:21.145 --> 00:41:23.245
It's a little Node. Js package that will

506
00:41:24.089 --> 00:41:27.310
allow you to basically hole punch to another piece of software,

507
00:41:28.250 --> 00:41:31.630
based on a public key. So you can effectively have

508
00:41:32.184 --> 00:41:36.605
public key, these nodes that advertise themselves to the network under a public key,

509
00:41:37.145 --> 00:41:40.684
and then they can just make a direct connection with each other

510
00:41:41.310 --> 00:41:43.970
without any DNS in the middle, without anything,

511
00:41:44.430 --> 00:41:44.930
and

512
00:41:46.270 --> 00:41:53.025
it seems to work very well. I like I said, it's kind of magic to me at this point until I can understand the networking layer more, but it's,

513
00:41:54.625 --> 00:41:56.245
it's it's a really cool technology.

514
00:41:57.025 --> 00:41:59.605
Yeah. To answer the question in the chat, it is open source.

515
00:42:00.050 --> 00:42:03.990
The whole, like I don't know about key pair, but, like, the actual hypercore,

516
00:42:04.450 --> 00:42:05.190
hyper DHT

517
00:42:05.570 --> 00:42:11.515
stack is is open source. It's just a DHT hole punching thing, and it has been around for a long time, but,

518
00:42:11.974 --> 00:42:23.740
it seems to work. I mean, I I think just being the ability to make a connection is it it's I just love the idea of having an alternative DNS because, like, the d you know, DNS, like, has a dependency on the government.

519
00:42:24.280 --> 00:42:34.295
Like like, the US government is one of, like, the packages that DNS depends on. So, like, you can't exactly rely on it as a long term solution

520
00:42:34.740 --> 00:43:01.045
if your DNS can get just rogue. You know? So and and, you know, we haven't seen that yet, but it's it's sort of like, I haven't heard a good logical reason, like, why we should just trust DNS is never gonna get, you know, like, deep platforms. Because, you know, 5 years ago, you know, there would it would've sounded crazy to think that people were to get, like, deleted from YouTube for, you know, saying certain things. So Right. You know, it's just like the overtone window is eventually gonna shift there, and that's what happened. But, you know, what I

521
00:43:01.345 --> 00:43:02.505
love about the

522
00:43:02.965 --> 00:43:09.205
having nostril as, like, the kind of signaling layer is that you don't have to have DNS be,

523
00:43:09.745 --> 00:43:21.474
like, hard coded into a group. The DNS can change all the time. And then as long as you have a Nostra event that represents the community, you can just publish a new version of that event to nostr and just switch the,

524
00:43:22.015 --> 00:43:22.515
DNS,

525
00:43:23.454 --> 00:43:23.954
location.

526
00:43:24.655 --> 00:43:28.170
Or you know using, like, nostr as the negotiation kinda layer.

527
00:43:28.550 --> 00:43:34.790
You just have ability. It's the point of interest. Mobility. Exactly. Yeah. Like, boot because you all you need to get a

528
00:43:35.905 --> 00:43:45.590
people connected is you need a way for a way for them to discover each other, which, in Austria, is obviously really good at that. Right. As you mentioned, like, you just build an event that is,

529
00:43:46.530 --> 00:43:48.630
represents, like, this is the discoverability

530
00:43:48.930 --> 00:43:53.990
event for the community. And then under that, you list all the ways that you can connect. And

531
00:43:54.505 --> 00:43:58.025
it could be, you know, DNS is the fastest, simplest right now, but,

532
00:43:58.664 --> 00:44:01.164
one of the options might be like hyper a Hypercore,

533
00:44:02.025 --> 00:44:03.620
pubkey that you can connect to.

534
00:44:04.500 --> 00:44:10.440
Or it doesn't even have to be limited to hypercore. I've actually done looked a little bit into like I2P, and that has a very similar

535
00:44:11.195 --> 00:44:11.935
kind of

536
00:44:12.715 --> 00:44:15.535
permissionless DNS system where you can just,

537
00:44:16.075 --> 00:44:21.130
without asking anybody, start up a start up a a server that has an identity,

538
00:44:21.750 --> 00:44:25.510
serve stuff from it, connect to other servers that have identity, and then you could even,

539
00:44:26.125 --> 00:44:32.145
if you wanted some pain, you could even like talk over Tor, and it has the exact same type of system where like permissionless

540
00:44:32.605 --> 00:44:35.910
domains, and so really all you need is like discoverability

541
00:44:36.210 --> 00:44:41.270
plus a permissionless way to talk to each other. So let let's just pull it back for a second.

542
00:44:43.890 --> 00:44:44.390
I2p,

543
00:44:45.385 --> 00:44:48.285
to me, has been hyped for a fucking decade now.

544
00:44:48.905 --> 00:44:50.925
Like, why hasn't I two p

545
00:44:52.345 --> 00:44:53.785
become a thing? Like, what is the

546
00:44:55.619 --> 00:44:58.119
I'm gonna say something controversial here. Nice.

547
00:44:58.420 --> 00:44:59.320
Something ignorant

548
00:45:00.100 --> 00:45:02.040
because it was written by Java developers.

549
00:45:02.955 --> 00:45:05.615
If you've looked at the UI for the I2P router,

550
00:45:06.715 --> 00:45:08.335
it is very hard to understand.

551
00:45:09.035 --> 00:45:11.530
I believe it has a full email client in it.

552
00:45:12.570 --> 00:45:20.275
I believe it has a full chat client built into it too, and I do not know how to use either of them. There's a really great project called I2PD,

553
00:45:20.895 --> 00:45:21.954
which is a reimplementation

554
00:45:22.335 --> 00:45:23.714
of the router in,

555
00:45:24.174 --> 00:45:26.115
I believe, C or C plus plus

556
00:45:26.815 --> 00:45:28.755
that project seems really good. But,

557
00:45:31.090 --> 00:45:41.015
I think I could, to answer your question, I think there's two reasons. Like my biased reason is that it's run by Java developers and they seem to have a tendency to quite really complicated code.

558
00:45:41.395 --> 00:45:45.734
And then I think it was missing like a lot of other peer to peer networks were before,

559
00:45:47.339 --> 00:45:50.560
that special sauce that Nostra has, which is just an identity system.

560
00:45:51.020 --> 00:45:53.200
Right. Because if you're trying to

561
00:45:53.980 --> 00:45:55.599
connect to the entire world,

562
00:45:57.015 --> 00:45:58.194
it it

563
00:45:58.694 --> 00:46:06.740
the entire like, if you're if you're just opening up your computer to the entire world, basically, like, that's the most peer to peer thing you could do, just open up your IP address and plug straight into the Internet.

564
00:46:07.840 --> 00:46:12.740
It's just full of spam. And there's no way you can tell what's not spam without an identity system.

565
00:46:13.135 --> 00:46:16.835
Yeah. I think the, actually, the in some ways,

566
00:46:17.375 --> 00:46:19.795
the web of trust that Nostra is,

567
00:46:20.870 --> 00:46:21.770
sort of, like,

568
00:46:22.550 --> 00:46:24.890
percolating up to the surface or, like,

569
00:46:25.990 --> 00:46:30.170
maybe, like, the web of trust that's, like, kind of, like, distilled from Nostra is

570
00:46:30.984 --> 00:46:34.285
going to be, like, the most foundational base layer for a lot of things,

571
00:46:34.664 --> 00:46:35.884
including infrastructure.

572
00:46:36.424 --> 00:46:37.884
Yep. Because infrastructure,

573
00:46:38.265 --> 00:46:56.250
you know, like, as you mentioned, spam is a big problem. You can't have like, if you don't have web of trust, you can't really have nice things. But one of the things that web of trust allows you to do is be like, you know, maybe I'm only gonna make a connection to someone who has, like, is, like, followed by someone I follow or something like that. And that right there

574
00:46:56.790 --> 00:46:58.890
enables you to actually have, like,

575
00:46:59.990 --> 00:47:06.345
you know, like, nice nice things. So if that's have been, like, trying to make webs of trust thing for

576
00:47:06.805 --> 00:47:07.705
fucking ever.

577
00:47:08.005 --> 00:47:16.690
And, like, Nostril, like, we're, I've said this before, like, we're shitposting our way to, like, the first real global web of trust. Yep. I think so too.

578
00:47:17.164 --> 00:47:18.305
It's it's the,

579
00:47:19.484 --> 00:47:22.305
as an engineer, because, like, I I had I had played with PGP,

580
00:47:23.164 --> 00:47:26.780
which was is the most notable one that I tried to build a web of trust. And,

581
00:47:27.960 --> 00:47:30.140
it's so funny how this how this

582
00:47:31.080 --> 00:47:32.380
half broken protocol

583
00:47:33.240 --> 00:47:35.415
is achieving something that,

584
00:47:35.895 --> 00:47:36.395
like,

585
00:47:37.095 --> 00:47:40.155
cryptographers and programmers have been like dreaming about for

586
00:47:41.095 --> 00:47:43.835
almost in the invention of cryptography. And

587
00:47:46.240 --> 00:47:47.280
it it it it,

588
00:47:48.480 --> 00:47:55.015
I don't know how. Like I said, we're just shitposting and and we're building this network somehow via that.

589
00:47:55.315 --> 00:47:56.855
The shitpost were a requirement.

590
00:47:57.715 --> 00:47:59.255
Yeah. It it unironically,

591
00:47:59.635 --> 00:48:01.680
it seems to be the case that, like,

592
00:48:02.640 --> 00:48:07.780
the stupid kind of broken slash just let's have fun and break things was, like, somehow

593
00:48:08.160 --> 00:48:09.059
re required.

594
00:48:09.875 --> 00:48:14.855
Well, I I think that what's it's like it pointing at the fact that social activity

595
00:48:15.475 --> 00:48:17.255
is the only way to produce

596
00:48:17.795 --> 00:48:18.295
signal

597
00:48:19.109 --> 00:48:24.089
because there's let's say there's signal if you just find signal as things humans care about.

598
00:48:24.710 --> 00:48:25.210
Well,

599
00:48:25.589 --> 00:48:29.065
you can't. Okay. You can you can try to, like you can have the Encyclopedia

600
00:48:29.445 --> 00:48:36.450
Britannica model, which is like, these people know what you should care about. Here's the thing. Okay. Great. You could have the Wikipedia medic,

601
00:48:37.010 --> 00:48:42.065
make Wikipedia editor model, which is like, we're just gonna use mainstream media as the

602
00:48:42.385 --> 00:48:47.365
signal source of things that are real, things that are we should care about. You know? But without

603
00:48:47.744 --> 00:48:58.200
it so what's happening with when anytime you curate content is you're you're at at best, you're kind of, like, proxying some existing source of curation into your dataset.

604
00:48:58.660 --> 00:49:01.925
But something like a subreddit or Discord server

605
00:49:02.225 --> 00:49:04.325
is an attempt to kind of, like,

606
00:49:05.505 --> 00:49:06.805
aggregate or

607
00:49:07.505 --> 00:49:09.285
produce or spin up

608
00:49:09.630 --> 00:49:13.490
this little pool of social capital that can be sort of

609
00:49:13.869 --> 00:49:18.530
derived from the interactions that happen on that thing. So Nostra itself right now,

610
00:49:18.984 --> 00:49:21.165
the patterns of interaction are actually,

611
00:49:22.665 --> 00:49:23.385
sort of, like,

612
00:49:24.185 --> 00:49:47.580
producing a kind of signal. I don't I don't think it really matters how you distill that signal. That's there's a million ways to do that. You could have a really simple algorithm like the number of max number of follows, but there's probably more complex way to do it. But it doesn't really matter. That that that is the gold right there. The gold is the kind of The key is the the signal. The key is the signal. It doesn't matter how you represent it or or distill it. Yes. Because, like, the kind three

613
00:49:47.880 --> 00:49:54.620
event is how we've distilled the signal in Nozture. How we've how we've distilled the web of trust out of, like, the signal we're getting out of Nozture.

614
00:49:55.165 --> 00:49:55.665
And

615
00:49:56.365 --> 00:49:57.745
it's kind of a bad implementation.

616
00:49:59.965 --> 00:50:00.465
But,

617
00:50:01.325 --> 00:50:02.365
yeah, it's it's,

618
00:50:03.150 --> 00:50:09.810
sorry. I had a point about that. But, yeah, the key is the signal. The key is the signal because you can't there's, like,

619
00:50:10.110 --> 00:50:14.045
web of trust means nothing if it's a web of trust between,

620
00:50:14.585 --> 00:50:15.965
like, digitally native

621
00:50:16.345 --> 00:50:21.484
AI bots and identities. Like, it only means something if it's a if it's a connection between

622
00:50:22.180 --> 00:50:24.680
people in the real world or if it mirrors something

623
00:50:25.140 --> 00:50:25.960
that could be

624
00:50:26.980 --> 00:50:32.045
a human interaction. Like, it it means nothing to us if it's if it's connections that aren't like human connections.

625
00:50:32.825 --> 00:50:33.325
And,

626
00:50:34.985 --> 00:50:35.485
yeah,

627
00:50:36.025 --> 00:50:36.845
oddly enough,

628
00:50:38.049 --> 00:50:40.390
coming to your point, Stu, like about signal and whatnot,

629
00:50:42.130 --> 00:50:48.375
it seem like, Gnostr seems to be working to build or, like, represent the human web of trust on the network,

630
00:50:50.195 --> 00:50:51.575
purely because, like,

631
00:50:51.955 --> 00:50:52.695
it's implementation

632
00:50:52.995 --> 00:50:55.495
of literally the connections between people

633
00:50:56.110 --> 00:50:58.770
is frictionless. Like, to update your kind 3

634
00:50:59.150 --> 00:51:00.930
is like one one action,

635
00:51:01.390 --> 00:51:03.570
and then now you've updated your so

636
00:51:03.915 --> 00:51:08.735
there's something about, like, reducing the friction that makes the signal higher.

637
00:51:12.900 --> 00:51:13.720
Yeah. Absolutely.

638
00:51:15.779 --> 00:51:18.200
Well, I think that that's, like, probably

639
00:51:18.579 --> 00:51:19.059
the most

640
00:51:20.025 --> 00:51:23.405
the the example I always use to to kinda illustrate this is, couchsurfing.com,

641
00:51:24.505 --> 00:51:30.940
which was, like, the greatest I think it was, like, the greatest website ever. And and, like, so, you know, basically, what couchsurfing.com

642
00:51:31.319 --> 00:51:35.819
was was it was a thing where you could just it was really active, like, around, like, 2,010, 2011.

643
00:51:36.599 --> 00:51:39.355
You could go to a new city, and you could make a request

644
00:51:39.835 --> 00:51:50.240
to stay at someone's house, and they would, like, let you sleep on their couch. And like the precursor to Airbnb. Right? Exactly. It was like the free, like, dirtbag version of Airbnb, and it was amazing.

645
00:51:50.619 --> 00:51:51.119
And

646
00:51:51.740 --> 00:51:54.799
the the it was, like, in around, like, 2014 or 2015,

647
00:51:55.994 --> 00:52:06.500
they sold out to, like, I think, like, a private equity firm that start put pay put, like, a really big paywall on it to try to kind of, I guess, make their money back or something. Monetize it. Yeah. And it sucked because

648
00:52:06.880 --> 00:52:09.540
it was, like, a tragedy that this dataset

649
00:52:10.315 --> 00:52:15.855
of that had been built too much friction suddenly. Yeah. Like, it it it was, like, a tragedy that that dataset

650
00:52:16.795 --> 00:52:25.319
gotten destroyed. And, like, I I was one of the things I've been thinking about is that, like, when you have any kind of web of trust, it is effectively deflationary

651
00:52:26.395 --> 00:52:27.135
to an

652
00:52:27.515 --> 00:52:48.775
economy because you can do things like okay. If I can go to a new city and use my past history of interactions to stay at someone's house for free, I just saved money on a hotel room. And not only that, but I also gained the benefit of the people I was gonna meet and stuff like that. And so you I think it's like the the one of the best ways of selling, like, Nostra to non

653
00:52:49.155 --> 00:52:58.510
Bitcoin, non tech people is just, like, almost like the kind of, like, social capital angle and just say, like, does isn't that just like a kind of,

654
00:52:59.210 --> 00:53:07.815
dangerous? Isn't it bad that all these big reservoirs of social capital are just dangling by this little thread that it's just, like, one decision away from getting

655
00:53:08.200 --> 00:53:09.580
kind of, invalidated.

656
00:53:09.960 --> 00:53:15.660
And Noster is like this long term permanent ratchet of social capital accumulation that

657
00:53:16.040 --> 00:53:16.435
is

658
00:53:16.995 --> 00:53:24.859
really never cute. I don't know how to erase it. And, I mean, now with the, like, the introduction of LLMs too, like, I think a lot of these centralized

659
00:53:25.160 --> 00:53:35.395
platforms have started to realize how much value their dataset is. Right? Which is why we're starting to see, like, Reddit and Twitter, all the walled garden. Like, the walled gardens are becoming the walls are growing.

660
00:53:35.775 --> 00:53:40.390
They're they're making it more difficult. I don't know how many people out here are listening to this,

661
00:53:41.269 --> 00:53:44.490
that maybe don't have a Twitter account, but sign out of Twitter

662
00:53:45.109 --> 00:53:47.405
and try and click a tweet link,

663
00:53:47.885 --> 00:53:51.905
And all you get is the bare minimum. All you get is just the single

664
00:53:52.205 --> 00:53:56.465
tweet. You can't see any of the replies. You can't see any of the quotes. You can't click the profile.

665
00:53:57.270 --> 00:54:00.250
You can't do any of those things. Try going into Reddit

666
00:54:00.710 --> 00:54:03.210
with with a VPN enabled and no account.

667
00:54:04.155 --> 00:54:09.535
It's very, very difficult. You cannot see anything that's going on there. They they, like, pop up this, like,

668
00:54:10.795 --> 00:54:13.935
disclaimer and say, woah, partner. Like, you don't have access.

669
00:54:15.020 --> 00:54:18.720
And they're all starting to do this. I mean, the one exception being TikTok

670
00:54:19.260 --> 00:54:26.635
because the CCP probably has ulterior motives and just wants that to be kind of open playground so people can see it in a guest profile.

671
00:54:27.015 --> 00:54:33.420
But the majority of centralized social platforms are building these massive walls because they realize what you post there

672
00:54:33.720 --> 00:54:34.619
is the product.

673
00:54:35.000 --> 00:54:37.980
The dataset is the product. That is the value.

674
00:54:39.000 --> 00:54:41.740
That that's the equity that that company has.

675
00:54:42.445 --> 00:54:47.665
And meanwhile, Noster is basically doing the exact opposite. It's by broadcasting out to the world.

676
00:54:48.445 --> 00:54:53.860
I like this idea of the ratcheting dataset. It's, like, just growing. Yeah. It's just constantly growing.

677
00:54:55.840 --> 00:54:59.060
To pull it back again, so on the vein of I2p,

678
00:55:00.320 --> 00:55:00.820
BitTorrent.

679
00:55:02.235 --> 00:55:06.415
You know? It's a protocol that I I loved and used for years.

680
00:55:07.595 --> 00:55:08.270
It worked.

681
00:55:08.990 --> 00:55:11.650
It got the job done. I think probably a lot of,

682
00:55:12.510 --> 00:55:15.570
engineer types were like, nah. This thing is, like, half broken.

683
00:55:16.605 --> 00:55:21.905
But it fucking worked. Like, you wanted a movie or something, like, you could you get the movie. Yeah.

684
00:55:23.380 --> 00:55:26.599
Why why why is BitTorrent not the solution?

685
00:55:27.140 --> 00:55:28.440
I think it's part of the solution.

686
00:55:28.819 --> 00:55:29.960
It doesn't have identities.

687
00:55:30.900 --> 00:55:33.535
You there's no web of trust. It's a great,

688
00:55:34.474 --> 00:55:34.954
fantastic

689
00:55:35.355 --> 00:55:43.340
and then you said it's it is probably half broken, but it is a as far as functioning goes, it is a fantastic, like, peer to peer file sharing network. It

690
00:55:44.040 --> 00:55:44.760
yeah. I mean, there's

691
00:55:45.320 --> 00:55:47.420
yeah. You can you can get so much from it.

692
00:55:48.255 --> 00:55:50.435
It does suffer for smaller files.

693
00:55:50.735 --> 00:55:54.195
Getting smaller cat pictures is a little bit little bit difficult off of BitTorrent,

694
00:55:54.815 --> 00:55:55.135
but,

695
00:55:56.150 --> 00:55:58.410
I think it just lacked an identity system because

696
00:55:59.109 --> 00:56:00.490
you can't get past,

697
00:56:01.990 --> 00:56:09.435
you can't get past the spam without, like, sovereign provable identities, like, crypto some sort of cryptographic identities. You can't differentiate,

698
00:56:11.640 --> 00:56:20.415
not even, like, humans from bots because that's not the important part, but, like, who is in my network and who is not? Because you can't connect to the entire world. It's too big.

699
00:56:20.795 --> 00:56:23.775
You need to you need to pick a smaller dataset. And so I think,

700
00:56:25.675 --> 00:56:29.535
I wouldn't say that's why Bitcoin doesn't work, but I think that's what's why it's not

701
00:56:30.300 --> 00:56:31.120
the solution

702
00:56:31.740 --> 00:56:33.840
that we're looking for going forward is

703
00:56:34.220 --> 00:56:36.800
it it lacks identities and it lacks a way of, like,

704
00:56:37.260 --> 00:56:38.965
not connecting to the entire world.

705
00:56:39.685 --> 00:56:41.605
Okay. So, like, where does Blossom

706
00:56:43.125 --> 00:56:48.250
we're about an hour in. Where does Blossom come into play here? What is what is Blossom?

707
00:56:49.670 --> 00:56:50.150
Yeah.

708
00:56:50.470 --> 00:56:54.490
Okay. I guess we can talk about that before cover run run over it real quick.

709
00:56:55.715 --> 00:56:56.215
Blossom

710
00:56:56.515 --> 00:56:57.015
is

711
00:56:57.795 --> 00:56:58.855
it was kind of

712
00:56:59.395 --> 00:57:01.655
a it came out of, like, Stu and I's discussion

713
00:57:02.035 --> 00:57:08.410
in mid year of, like, 2 months. I forget, I mean, I forget how many talks we had about this and how many crazy ideas we did, but,

714
00:57:09.910 --> 00:57:11.210
it came out of,

715
00:57:12.345 --> 00:57:18.205
I believe the core of the conversation was, like, what does it look like to make users and media on Noister?

716
00:57:18.880 --> 00:57:22.500
What does it look what does it look like to make that media move like events do?

717
00:57:22.960 --> 00:57:24.740
Because the events in Gnostr,

718
00:57:25.359 --> 00:57:26.245
like, for

719
00:57:26.805 --> 00:57:31.465
who there's many reasons, but you can never really figure out why, but they have a tendency to just, like,

720
00:57:31.845 --> 00:57:34.250
like, just kind of crawl throughout the network.

721
00:57:34.890 --> 00:57:42.455
You can post something on a private relay and then in, like, a week or so, it'll pop up somewhere else and it'll eventually get. And so

722
00:57:43.155 --> 00:57:50.690
our conversation was like, what does it look like to make media do the same thing? Like, what would it take to do that? Not like and so

723
00:57:51.230 --> 00:57:55.090
we kind of ended up like, these hash addressable content is you have to have

724
00:57:55.470 --> 00:58:10.400
an ID for a file to be able to talk about it because a URL is a really bad identifier. It changes all the time and it can break. So you need like an identifier for the file, which is like shot 256 of the of the file. That's kind of, there's many programs that run that use that.

725
00:58:10.940 --> 00:58:14.480
BitTorrent kind of does, but it has its own system for that.

726
00:58:14.859 --> 00:58:15.520
And then,

727
00:58:17.465 --> 00:58:18.605
yeah. And so Blossom

728
00:58:19.305 --> 00:58:19.805
is

729
00:58:20.984 --> 00:58:23.805
try to, like, figure out how to it's it's really simple.

730
00:58:24.105 --> 00:58:24.605
It's

731
00:58:25.840 --> 00:58:28.260
how do you retrieve or how do you talk to

732
00:58:29.120 --> 00:58:31.460
multiple servers about the same file?

733
00:58:33.120 --> 00:58:33.620
Okay.

734
00:58:33.945 --> 00:58:39.325
So that just like we talked to multiple relays about the same pub key or multiple relays about the same event,

735
00:58:39.785 --> 00:58:41.980
it's just this kind of the same concept with,

736
00:58:43.180 --> 00:58:51.335
you know, how do you talk to multiple servers about the exact same file because you know what you're looking for, you just don't know where it is. And so the Blossom spec itself is,

737
00:58:52.055 --> 00:58:54.315
it's a set of 5 different endpoints

738
00:58:54.695 --> 00:58:56.315
for an HTTP server,

739
00:58:57.415 --> 00:59:03.940
and how to implement each endpoint and how it's expected to behave so that you can so a Notion user can

740
00:59:04.560 --> 00:59:06.099
upload media to the server.

741
00:59:06.640 --> 00:59:13.025
They can see what media they have uploaded to the server. They can delete the media and then they can retrieve the media

742
00:59:13.725 --> 00:59:14.465
by its,

743
00:59:14.845 --> 00:59:18.145
or, you know, by, by its hash, basically it's universal ID.

744
00:59:18.930 --> 00:59:19.430
And

745
00:59:21.010 --> 00:59:23.910
as far as the technical side of things, like, that's kind of it.

746
00:59:25.570 --> 00:59:27.750
So, like, the idea is I mean,

747
00:59:28.565 --> 00:59:32.025
so what it what it comes down to with with hosting

748
00:59:32.724 --> 00:59:33.224
media,

749
00:59:33.924 --> 00:59:34.990
photos, but,

750
00:59:36.190 --> 00:59:37.730
like, image image files,

751
00:59:38.510 --> 00:59:43.730
but even video files are probably the harder problem. As you get, like, size increases

752
00:59:44.665 --> 00:59:47.565
in in the in what data you're sharing,

753
00:59:48.185 --> 00:59:51.645
it becomes more of an issue because with size comes cost.

754
00:59:54.340 --> 00:59:58.680
The the the main concern the main issue historically has been

755
00:59:59.060 --> 01:00:00.975
almost one of of liability.

756
01:00:01.275 --> 01:00:04.175
Right? Like, this idea of, like, where are you storing it?

757
01:00:05.035 --> 01:00:08.495
What like, how are you how are you handling who decides

758
01:00:09.119 --> 01:00:10.960
to keep the file with you?

759
01:00:12.320 --> 01:00:14.500
We've talked a lot about communities here.

760
01:00:15.954 --> 01:00:19.335
We've started a physical community here in Nashville called Bitcoin Park.

761
01:00:19.635 --> 01:00:20.855
We have our own relay,

762
01:00:22.595 --> 01:00:28.339
for Bitcoin Park members. It's mostly I think it's at this point, it's, like, mostly used as, like, a shared backup

763
01:00:28.720 --> 01:00:31.445
Yeah. To be honest. Like, I don't think anyone's, like,

764
01:00:32.325 --> 01:00:36.185
reading from it to see specifically, like, what Bitcoin Park members are saying.

765
01:00:36.805 --> 01:00:40.830
But that's subsidized because we already have, like, yearly dues

766
01:00:41.210 --> 01:00:41.950
for that

767
01:00:42.730 --> 01:00:47.875
to be a member of Bitcoin Park. Like, you pay to be a member of Bitcoin Park. You get access to the facility.

768
01:00:48.255 --> 01:00:50.115
The relay is is this bonus.

769
01:00:51.615 --> 01:00:55.234
But if is my understanding of Blossom correct that this idea is

770
01:00:56.670 --> 01:00:57.170
right

771
01:00:57.550 --> 01:00:58.050
now,

772
01:00:58.830 --> 01:01:01.570
most people that are, like, sharing a video on Nostr

773
01:01:02.430 --> 01:01:07.915
are just choosing a server. Right? Like, they're just choosing a server. They're gonna store this video on the server.

774
01:01:08.215 --> 01:01:11.755
They're gonna post their their URL. Right? That's like dotmp4

775
01:01:12.600 --> 01:01:13.420
or dotpng

776
01:01:13.720 --> 01:01:15.020
or something like that.

777
01:01:16.040 --> 01:01:18.780
I think, you know, primal is probably a a

778
01:01:19.640 --> 01:01:21.420
an interesting vertical stack,

779
01:01:21.905 --> 01:01:22.885
example here

780
01:01:23.185 --> 01:01:28.405
where, like, it's just at primal's web server, which is probably AWS or some shit.

781
01:01:29.310 --> 01:01:39.170
And then they they're just storing the dot PNG for you. And then that that event is just getting spread around, and everyone needs to hit that web server to to see that image.

782
01:01:39.495 --> 01:01:40.376
With blossom,

783
01:01:41.815 --> 01:01:44.235
we hash the file. The hash is unique.

784
01:01:46.349 --> 01:01:49.650
Because the hash is unique, and that's just how hash functions work,

785
01:01:50.190 --> 01:01:52.530
that file can then be hosted on

786
01:01:52.910 --> 01:01:55.250
10 different servers or 15 different servers,

787
01:01:55.674 --> 01:01:58.414
and your client is, like, kind of dynamically choosing

788
01:01:59.595 --> 01:02:06.500
the most performant one or something like that to to fetch that file from? And is that, like, the basic concept?

789
01:02:07.440 --> 01:02:08.500
Yeah. So

790
01:02:09.360 --> 01:02:11.540
yeah. It is all based on, I mean,

791
01:02:11.885 --> 01:02:16.465
it is all based on the hash, which is not a new idea. Right. IPNFS has the same idea,

792
01:02:16.765 --> 01:02:22.200
a little bit more complicated hash, but has the same idea. Like, if you have this universal ID for a file,

793
01:02:22.819 --> 01:02:23.960
it is no longer

794
01:02:24.579 --> 01:02:26.200
stuck on a single server.

795
01:02:26.515 --> 01:02:29.174
It can, in theory, live on multiple servers. And so

796
01:02:30.515 --> 01:02:34.700
yeah. But it can't live on every server because that's The problem the problem set being, like,

797
01:02:35.260 --> 01:02:40.000
at the end of the day, if Milan or Primal decides that he doesn't want my PNG there,

798
01:02:40.300 --> 01:02:43.040
it doesn't matter that you have my event.

799
01:02:43.715 --> 01:02:47.895
You don't have you have my signed note that has this link to to primal.net/blahblah.png.

800
01:02:50.710 --> 01:02:52.090
If he deletes the file,

801
01:02:52.550 --> 01:02:57.609
you just have a fucking dead link, and you don't you can't see anything. Right? That's a problem we're trying to solve.

802
01:02:57.965 --> 01:02:59.185
Yeah. That that is

803
01:02:59.805 --> 01:03:00.785
that is the problem.

804
01:03:02.605 --> 01:03:03.665
The best solution,

805
01:03:04.845 --> 01:03:07.970
and this is kind of in the BLOSUM spec, the best solution is

806
01:03:08.430 --> 01:03:08.590
to

807
01:03:09.710 --> 01:03:13.250
the simplest solution seems to be just to put the hash in the URL.

808
01:03:13.790 --> 01:03:21.395
So that when that link does go down, because it will go down, is the way the Internet works. Every link goes down eventually. Right.

809
01:03:21.750 --> 01:03:23.290
Yeah. The Internet has an odd

810
01:03:23.590 --> 01:03:28.970
decaying factor to it. But, yeah, so when the link goes down, you still have that universal ID of the file.

811
01:03:29.510 --> 01:03:31.365
And then the idea is that

812
01:03:31.845 --> 01:03:34.025
because it's in the context of the pub key,

813
01:03:34.885 --> 01:03:35.785
this is the

814
01:03:36.645 --> 01:03:38.585
oddly simple and efficient

815
01:03:39.150 --> 01:03:46.690
part of the only probably the only efficient part of the Blossom idea is that because you've you've posted it in an Notion note, you have this pub key.

816
01:03:47.550 --> 01:03:54.895
This pub key can then broadcast an event kind of like the, NIP 65 or the relay list, where it's an advertising

817
01:03:55.275 --> 01:03:56.655
of what servers

818
01:03:57.420 --> 01:04:01.119
I I I post my media to, what servers I I publish my data to.

819
01:04:01.420 --> 01:04:06.045
So if I your PNG goes down and I get the hash from the URL

820
01:04:06.585 --> 01:04:07.085
Right.

821
01:04:07.785 --> 01:04:08.285
Then

822
01:04:08.665 --> 01:04:12.525
all I would have to do is go to your pub key, use the Gnost or Discoverability

823
01:04:12.825 --> 01:04:15.600
layer, figure out what media servers you post,

824
01:04:15.900 --> 01:04:18.640
and then start talking to specifically those,

825
01:04:19.180 --> 01:04:22.155
because those are the ones that are most likely to have your media,

826
01:04:22.635 --> 01:04:23.615
similar to relays.

827
01:04:24.315 --> 01:04:24.815
Because

828
01:04:25.195 --> 01:04:26.735
if I got the hash

829
01:04:27.115 --> 01:04:29.455
and then I started to talk to the entire internet,

830
01:04:29.990 --> 01:04:32.250
it might be a week before I find that file.

831
01:04:32.790 --> 01:04:34.890
That is way too long of a loading time.

832
01:04:35.670 --> 01:04:38.465
And so, yeah, there's there's this kind of a combination of

833
01:04:39.585 --> 01:04:41.605
because it's not just the hash that makes it,

834
01:04:42.625 --> 01:04:43.125
work.

835
01:04:44.065 --> 01:04:45.765
It's the hash plus

836
01:04:46.610 --> 01:04:53.030
nostril and the identities. Like a signed list assigned list of potential servers to narrow your set.

837
01:04:55.895 --> 01:04:57.355
Yeah. And so that that's,

838
01:04:59.095 --> 01:05:05.500
because I I believe I mean, everyone kind of knows or seen the kind of the article that Fiat Jeff has written about, IPFS.

839
01:05:06.680 --> 01:05:08.300
And I believe that was one of,

840
01:05:09.000 --> 01:05:11.900
well, I don't know if that was one of his criticisms, but

841
01:05:12.325 --> 01:05:14.345
one of my main criticisms of IPFS

842
01:05:14.965 --> 01:05:19.865
that we might share is that Yeah. We've shad on IGP. We've shad on BitTorrent. Now let's shoot on IPFS.

843
01:05:20.485 --> 01:05:21.520
Yes. Controversial.

844
01:05:22.780 --> 01:05:24.560
Is it takes to it takes too long.

845
01:05:25.500 --> 01:05:27.520
It takes too long to load stuff. And

846
01:05:28.540 --> 01:05:29.680
the reason why

847
01:05:29.980 --> 01:05:30.480
is

848
01:05:30.835 --> 01:05:32.694
not because, like, it's not well made.

849
01:05:33.075 --> 01:05:34.694
It it probably is well made.

850
01:05:36.355 --> 01:05:37.654
It's that it's looking.

851
01:05:38.210 --> 01:05:39.829
It's searching the entire Internet.

852
01:05:40.450 --> 01:05:45.029
Like, it's the search area is massive when you're looking for this, like, specific file.

853
01:05:45.809 --> 01:05:46.309
And

854
01:05:46.825 --> 01:05:49.085
the nice thing the cool thing about Gnostr is,

855
01:05:49.465 --> 01:05:56.260
well, we we have a we can get a universal ID for a file, but in the context of Gnostr, we have these identities. We have these pub keys. We

856
01:05:56.800 --> 01:05:58.660
have this social network,

857
01:05:59.120 --> 01:06:01.140
but mainly the pub key. And

858
01:06:02.080 --> 01:06:07.545
if I if I'm looking for a file that was that you posted or a PNG that you posted and it's not there anymore,

859
01:06:07.845 --> 01:06:09.945
I don't have to search the entire Internet anymore.

860
01:06:10.325 --> 01:06:13.225
I can go and look at I can go

861
01:06:13.750 --> 01:06:22.685
again, like, kind of figure out where you post your media, kind of scope it down to the public key. Yeah. And now I only have to search a small portion of the Internet instead of the entire Internet.

862
01:06:24.925 --> 01:06:28.845
And so that that that back to my kind of previous point I may I talked about earlier about,

863
01:06:29.970 --> 01:06:34.070
like, why torrents might not be the way well, probably is not a good solution going forward is

864
01:06:34.450 --> 01:06:38.230
it's exactly that. Like, you need the identity because without the identity,

865
01:06:38.775 --> 01:06:39.275
you're

866
01:06:39.575 --> 01:06:42.555
without that identity and without the connections that the identity provides,

867
01:06:44.215 --> 01:06:46.635
you're left trying to search the entire world

868
01:06:47.015 --> 01:06:48.440
for that one thing you want.

869
01:06:48.839 --> 01:06:50.220
And it's such a it's it's

870
01:06:50.520 --> 01:06:51.020
incomprehensibly

871
01:06:51.640 --> 01:06:52.780
large search area.

872
01:06:54.280 --> 01:06:56.205
I see in the chat friends app

873
01:06:56.765 --> 01:06:58.225
telling me to talk about something,

874
01:06:59.005 --> 01:07:01.825
or maybe you should talk about that, Hazard. Yeah. He's asking

875
01:07:02.285 --> 01:07:05.140
Fran Zap's asking you to ask Hazard to talk about,

876
01:07:06.180 --> 01:07:11.240
bounties for hashes. I mean, I I was gonna bring this up. I mean, one of my,

877
01:07:12.339 --> 01:07:14.599
like, left curve IQ issues,

878
01:07:15.365 --> 01:07:18.985
left, yeah, left left curve IQ issues with,

879
01:07:19.765 --> 01:07:20.265
IPFS

880
01:07:21.045 --> 01:07:23.400
is this idea that it's kind of just based

881
01:07:24.359 --> 01:07:25.339
off of altruism

882
01:07:25.720 --> 01:07:28.380
to a degree, which is is what Bittorrent

883
01:07:28.760 --> 01:07:32.460
has been based off of for decades and continues to work.

884
01:07:33.775 --> 01:07:36.275
But there's no, like, payment scheme. There's no,

885
01:07:38.095 --> 01:07:40.835
financial incentive for people to host files.

886
01:07:41.375 --> 01:07:42.035
I know

887
01:07:42.630 --> 01:07:45.450
Justin Sun bought BitTorrent for an insane

888
01:07:45.750 --> 01:07:54.685
value and tried to monetize it with Tron. I have no idea what happened with that. I know I continue to use BitTorrent and never interact with Tron whatsoever.

889
01:07:56.505 --> 01:07:58.845
But is that is this bounties aspect

890
01:07:59.220 --> 01:08:01.559
have something to do with some kind of financial

891
01:08:02.339 --> 01:08:03.480
incentive to

892
01:08:03.859 --> 01:08:07.480
have popular files? Is is there any aspect to that in BLOSUM?

893
01:08:09.015 --> 01:08:10.475
Well, there's nothing in Blossom,

894
01:08:11.415 --> 01:08:15.960
and that was kind of intentional. I was trying to keep trying to put nothing in there outside the bare minimum.

895
01:08:16.520 --> 01:08:19.420
But it could definitely be enabled by it because,

896
01:08:20.600 --> 01:08:22.140
it might even work with BitTorrent,

897
01:08:22.920 --> 01:08:24.780
but BLOSUM is a little bit simpler

898
01:08:25.105 --> 01:08:25.605
protocol.

899
01:08:26.545 --> 01:08:35.130
But I think I think the idea was originally, like, Studio originally came up with the idea, but, like, the whole concept of, like, if we're going to we have this universal ID now,

900
01:08:35.510 --> 01:08:36.810
and if we're gonna

901
01:08:37.190 --> 01:08:43.515
start storing it in multiple places, you know, like, if the the single server is not the single source of truth anymore. Right.

902
01:08:44.295 --> 01:08:49.114
And then we have Noister, which is a great discoverability layer and a great communication layer.

903
01:08:49.735 --> 01:08:50.715
There's nothing

904
01:08:52.340 --> 01:08:59.400
there's nothing really stopping you from just putting a bounty up or, like it would be like making a Twitter post or just a post on Notion saying, hey. I'm looking for

905
01:09:00.045 --> 01:09:02.385
this particular file. I'm willing to pay somebody,

906
01:09:02.845 --> 01:09:03.825
if they have it.

907
01:09:04.205 --> 01:09:08.370
And you can just up the bid or you can kinda change it until you get the community. And so

908
01:09:09.090 --> 01:09:11.590
it's really just using the note. It could just be

909
01:09:12.050 --> 01:09:16.310
I don't know if it's a solution to anything because I don't know if people want files that badly,

910
01:09:17.010 --> 01:09:18.685
but it could just be a,

911
01:09:19.725 --> 01:09:21.905
it'd just be like using the Notion layer to advertise,

912
01:09:22.525 --> 01:09:26.929
I'm looking for this thing. I need this hash. I will pay you if you give me

913
01:09:27.230 --> 01:09:39.130
access. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. It's like a bounty hunter for data, sort of. Like, you're you're kind of, like and I think it really speaks to the idea of how Nostra is, like, kind of, like, this API to a market in some sense,

914
01:09:39.610 --> 01:09:48.735
where if you want something, you can send it to just, like, a regular, like, get endpoint, like, you know, CDN dot whatever slash shot 256.

915
01:09:49.275 --> 01:09:57.180
And if it if, you know, if the CDN has that file, send it back to you. If it doesn't have that file, it can kick off this whole

916
01:09:57.560 --> 01:10:32.739
Ruby Goldberg machine in the back end, talk to, like, 100 different people, put out bin you know, bids, e cash, lightning, just like, you know, who even knows? Black box. Okay? Somehow Depends on how desperate you are. Yeah. How des how desperate are you in your just some you know, there's all kinds of, like I made, like, a whole slideshow about this that was, like, way too complicated, and I had to cut it down because, like like, you like, especially when you start involving ecash, like, the number of, like, schemes that you can come up with for, like, forwarding payment and all this stuff. Right. It's it's it's insane. But, like, the a basic idea is that, you know, it's like, hey. I I can use Nostr as the interface

917
01:10:33.119 --> 01:10:39.645
to this market. Somebody get me the hash. The first person to upload it is gonna get paid by the CDN. Okay.

918
01:10:40.265 --> 01:10:48.869
So then the user from their perspective, all they see is a long running get request that maybe takes, like, 10 seconds, and then they get their file. Hey. Still faster than IPFS.

919
01:10:49.570 --> 01:10:57.635
So and then the next time they hit the endpoint, it's just it's already in the bucket, so it goes fast. So I think that's really interesting because the communities, satellite communities

920
01:10:57.935 --> 01:11:00.835
are almost putting, like, another layer on top of that where you can

921
01:11:01.180 --> 01:11:02.000
kind of, like,

922
01:11:02.300 --> 01:11:05.280
sort of have an inkling of where that data might be,

923
01:11:05.820 --> 01:11:14.365
to look for it in the first place. Because, like, if someone's a member of a community and they have permission to upload some stuff there, maybe you hit those buckets associated with that community. So

924
01:11:14.745 --> 01:11:15.465
I feel like,

925
01:11:16.345 --> 01:11:18.125
there's a lot there that you could

926
01:11:18.610 --> 01:11:20.530
you could just yeah. There's kind of already,

927
01:11:21.170 --> 01:11:22.370
it it it doesn't,

928
01:11:22.770 --> 01:11:26.310
involve an ecash or Lightning or Zaps or anything, but I I've made an implementation

929
01:11:26.770 --> 01:11:28.094
of, like, a Blossom

930
01:11:28.635 --> 01:11:34.815
server. That being like a an h a file server that conforms to the Blossom spec. So it lets you request files,

931
01:11:35.700 --> 01:11:38.920
via, like it lets you request files based on their hash.

932
01:11:39.460 --> 01:11:46.055
And there's already an implementation of this, so I wrote up in, like, 10, 20 lines of code or something. But if it doesn't have the hash,

933
01:11:46.755 --> 01:11:55.739
it will just connect to some random relays, and it will start looking for that hash on events. Like it'll start looking for 1063 events, which are like a noester

934
01:11:57.239 --> 01:12:00.855
file advertising event. Like I publish this file, here's where you can find it.

935
01:12:01.415 --> 01:12:02.715
And, yeah, the server will,

936
01:12:03.175 --> 01:12:06.715
like, with a few lines of code, connect to the Notion relays, it'll look for the hash.

937
01:12:07.015 --> 01:12:13.070
If it finds it, like a like a proprietary URL, it'll then download it and then reserve it as the hash. And

938
01:12:14.490 --> 01:12:20.575
the concept of, like, bounty hunting with the files could just be that with a little bit more on top of, like, payment and incentivizations

939
01:12:21.435 --> 01:12:25.455
kinda put on top of it. This is I mean so I got 3 things. First of all,

940
01:12:26.990 --> 01:12:34.210
if you're stuck in the YouTube chat, I see some people like, what the fuck is going on on screen? Like, how do I join that? That's dispatch.com/stream.

941
01:12:37.125 --> 01:12:40.905
The second thing is, to me, like, one of the big tests

942
01:12:41.605 --> 01:12:42.105
of

943
01:12:43.045 --> 01:12:43.545
Noster

944
01:12:44.490 --> 01:12:46.190
is this idea of

945
01:12:47.050 --> 01:12:47.550
WikiLeaks

946
01:12:48.010 --> 01:12:51.470
on Nostr. And so, like, when WikiLeaks came out to me,

947
01:12:52.355 --> 01:12:53.335
I was a big

948
01:12:57.075 --> 01:13:03.860
I've always been, like, a relatively large, like, conspiracy head. I like, you know, like, dramas and stuff like that,

949
01:13:05.520 --> 01:13:06.020
movies,

950
01:13:07.600 --> 01:13:08.100
books.

951
01:13:08.855 --> 01:13:16.394
And, like, WikiLeaks broke all that because it was, like, half of the shit like, you could just end it in chapter 1 like he just uploaded it to WikiLeaks.

952
01:13:16.950 --> 01:13:20.010
You just had something he needed to say. Just upload it to WikiLeaks.

953
01:13:21.990 --> 01:13:33.505
And I I feel like Noster hasn't had that moment yet, but, like, that's the real test. Right? And, like, that requires, like, actual media hosting. That's not just necessary text files. A lot of WikiLeaks was, like, PDFs.

954
01:13:33.870 --> 01:13:36.450
I mean, the big one was, like, that video of the helicopter,

955
01:13:38.510 --> 01:13:45.344
like, bombing just innocent civilians in a van. Sure. You gotta host that somewhere. And then the third thing is

956
01:13:46.284 --> 01:13:47.585
big time file hoarder.

957
01:13:48.045 --> 01:13:49.264
Love hosting files.

958
01:13:51.310 --> 01:13:54.210
Never been able to monetize them. Right? And there's there's

959
01:13:54.750 --> 01:13:59.730
it's kind of this idea kinda, like, throws the normal file hosting thing on its head,

960
01:14:00.215 --> 01:14:00.955
which is

961
01:14:01.574 --> 01:14:03.594
usually okay. I post a dispatch.

962
01:14:04.455 --> 01:14:05.195
I want

963
01:14:05.735 --> 01:14:10.700
multiple CDNs to host my dispatch, so I go out and I pay people.

964
01:14:11.480 --> 01:14:15.100
Right? Like, I pay Primal. Well, Primal is not accepting money yet, but, presumably,

965
01:14:15.400 --> 01:14:18.860
they're gonna start accepting money to host large files. I pay satellite

966
01:14:19.215 --> 01:14:22.994
to host large files. Like, it's it's the broadcaster that's paying.

967
01:14:23.775 --> 01:14:24.755
This is the opposite.

968
01:14:25.454 --> 01:14:30.469
Right? This is the the idea that the the viewer, the consumer of the content,

969
01:14:31.489 --> 01:14:39.085
is going out there and being like, I need access to this shit. Yeah. I will pay you for this. And then all of a sudden, there's a market price

970
01:14:39.625 --> 01:14:40.125
aspect

971
01:14:40.824 --> 01:14:43.804
there. That's not just like, what is disk space and bandwidth cost?

972
01:14:44.719 --> 01:14:46.980
Yeah. The interesting thing about that is

973
01:14:47.520 --> 01:14:53.699
they're effectively paying for the same thing. They're they're paying for the media or the file to be more accessible,

974
01:14:54.425 --> 01:14:54.925
which

975
01:14:55.864 --> 01:14:56.364
is,

976
01:14:57.224 --> 01:15:02.844
like, you're not just it's interesting because it kinda goes like, why can't I just host my media on my Raspberry Pi at home? Right.

977
01:15:03.250 --> 01:15:04.710
It doesn't work because

978
01:15:05.170 --> 01:15:05.909
if you

979
01:15:06.210 --> 01:15:11.510
like, there's like a cool mental model I like to think of. If you think of the Internet like the media hosting sense

980
01:15:11.810 --> 01:15:12.710
as a mountain,

981
01:15:13.655 --> 01:15:18.235
and all the small devices, all your phones, all your laptops, they're all the bottom of the mountain.

982
01:15:18.614 --> 01:15:24.730
And all the big media hosting servers, the S3 buckets, the massive companies that host all the files, the YouTubes,

983
01:15:25.430 --> 01:15:32.135
they're at the top of the mountain. They're the easiest, like and if the data and if you think about the data, like the files as water,

984
01:15:32.915 --> 01:15:40.090
it kind of flows down the mountain. It has to like it comes from those big things all the way down to the small devices. But if you have a small file on your phone,

985
01:15:41.350 --> 01:15:47.210
it takes work to get it up the mountain. It takes work to put it all the way up on YouTube, to put it on these like discoverability,

986
01:15:47.895 --> 01:15:48.715
these massively

987
01:15:49.335 --> 01:15:51.835
powerful servers to distribute things. And so

988
01:15:52.295 --> 01:15:53.114
that work

989
01:15:53.415 --> 01:15:58.640
is kind of what you're paying for in this model. Like, if you're if you're looking for a file and you're putting a bounty

990
01:15:59.020 --> 01:15:59.520
up,

991
01:16:00.140 --> 01:16:10.824
you're in some you might think like it's kind of like you're paying for the file, but what you're really in some sense, what you're paying for is someone to do the work to get it up high enough so that you can access it

992
01:16:11.364 --> 01:16:13.304
because you can't connect to their phone directly.

993
01:16:13.640 --> 01:16:15.340
So they gotta get it to some sort of

994
01:16:16.120 --> 01:16:19.179
server that you can both access and easily get it.

995
01:16:20.495 --> 01:16:24.835
That's an amazing metaphor. I it's it's like a CDN that pulls things in from the edge

996
01:16:25.135 --> 01:16:28.275
instead of pushing things to the edge. It's like Yeah. And

997
01:16:28.650 --> 01:16:29.630
this pulling function.

998
01:16:30.090 --> 01:16:30.750
The monetization

999
01:16:31.050 --> 01:16:31.770
aspect, like,

1000
01:16:32.490 --> 01:16:39.765
Yeah. There's there's so many ways of building this. You gotta figure out, like, the the right way, I guess. But the monetization aspect is so much fun because

1001
01:16:40.205 --> 01:16:44.280
yeah. I love hoarding like I love hoarding files. Are we all file orders here?

1002
01:16:45.559 --> 01:16:51.179
Maybe. But is he like Kieran Kieran's in the comments. He's like, oh, I can monetize my 50 terabyte NAS.

1003
01:16:51.695 --> 01:17:06.530
Oh, absolutely. You just have to listen for, like, when somebody wants that file. And then, you know, you need to actually do the work to get it to get it to them. But, yeah, like you can just buy like what is it? Like a 100 terabytes for 4, sorry, $100 for 4 terabytes?

1004
01:17:07.150 --> 01:17:10.485
Like that holds a lot of potentially monetizable content.

1005
01:17:10.785 --> 01:17:13.105
Yeah. What I really like is the idea that,

1006
01:17:13.505 --> 01:17:14.005
CDNs

1007
01:17:14.545 --> 01:17:16.625
will be kind of like this,

1008
01:17:17.345 --> 01:17:17.845
acceleration

1009
01:17:19.829 --> 01:17:21.030
gateway from

1010
01:17:21.510 --> 01:17:27.690
between files that are hosted on a very decentralized way to people who actually are trying to load them, like, on their phone or something.

1011
01:17:28.005 --> 01:17:35.705
And so the only thing that needs to get paid for is the first time it gets pulled onto it, and it can get deleted after a while. But, like Right. It can be, like, ephemeral.

1012
01:17:36.110 --> 01:17:43.945
Exactly. Like, like, almost like like a least recently accessed cache or something like that. So you have a, you know, CDN operator, which by the way,

1013
01:17:44.425 --> 01:17:55.870
if anyone runs wants to run their own version of satellite CDN, it's open source now, and you can just put an ENV variable that's like the number of cents per gigabyte per month, and you can set up your own lightning gated,

1014
01:17:56.250 --> 01:17:59.550
s 3 bucket or Cloudflare r two bucket. So Wait. It's in dollars?

1015
01:17:59.930 --> 01:18:10.369
It's in cents? It's it's denominated in USD, but it's charged at lightning on the current exchange rate. Oh, that's cool. And it refreshes because, you know, just for unit of account stuff. That's what you're paying

1016
01:18:10.830 --> 01:18:11.969
AWS for or whatever.

1017
01:18:12.349 --> 01:18:16.290
Yeah. So you basically set because well, I'm play I'm using Cloudflare r two because

1018
01:18:16.670 --> 01:18:24.765
Oh. They're both centralized, but Cloudflare r 2 is great because they don't charge for data transfer. So it makes sense. Only company more evil than Amazon. Well, exactly.

1019
01:18:25.240 --> 01:18:26.780
But you know what? The

1020
01:18:27.960 --> 01:18:30.940
it's good. Like, if we're if we actually want to win,

1021
01:18:31.400 --> 01:18:32.620
we need to use

1022
01:18:32.965 --> 01:18:33.705
the powerful

1023
01:18:34.245 --> 01:18:35.225
CDN networks

1024
01:18:35.605 --> 01:18:49.755
and then build in, like, a fallback solution. Right. Like, all this decentralized stuff, like, it's never gonna work if you have to, like, wait 10 seconds for your video to start loading. So, like, all this No one's switching from TikTok if they're waiting fucking Exactly. Half a minute.

1025
01:18:50.315 --> 01:18:59.530
These decentralized censorship resistance is like break glass in case of emergency kind of stuff. But otherwise, it needs to go quick. So there's, like, this fallback kinda thing.

1026
01:18:59.909 --> 01:19:14.765
So, you know, I mean, I guess, not to ramble on too long here, but to connect to connect it to what, we were talking about a minute ago, the whole idea of the edge, I really think there needs to be a way for there to be a lot of edge devices that actually back up the media, and that's one of the things I,

1027
01:19:15.245 --> 01:19:19.659
me and Hazardous Building with satellite communities is it's like a desktop app

1028
01:19:20.120 --> 01:19:22.300
that can run on an actual, like, MacBook

1029
01:19:22.679 --> 01:19:38.270
that when you subscribe to a community, you download and cache and backup media files selectively, and then those are sitting on your hard drive. That's cool. So then if a CDN needs that file, it knows who to ask to to upload that file. So it's an example of kind of welding that,

1030
01:19:39.050 --> 01:19:42.270
welding get paid? Yes. You get paid with eCash or lightning.

1031
01:19:42.650 --> 01:19:50.555
Exactly. And and you set a market rate. You I asked the important questions. You you say, like There's a lot to build. Like, to be clear, like, that probably won't be a,

1032
01:19:51.275 --> 01:19:52.095
a steward issue.

1033
01:19:53.360 --> 01:19:56.480
That yeah. That's like a way down the road because, like I said, we gotta figure out

1034
01:19:56.800 --> 01:20:07.525
Well, because it's easy. But you could be. You could be. And that's and, like, the market rate is the interesting part of, like, what does that even look like? It depends on what you're saying. Market for uploading files.

1035
01:20:07.825 --> 01:20:10.565
Because the thing is is, like, if it's just

1036
01:20:12.050 --> 01:20:14.469
me posting a video of a sunset or something.

1037
01:20:15.329 --> 01:20:20.949
Right? Like, people just want that to load quick. If it doesn't load quick, they're just gonna scroll on past. They don't need to see my fucking

1038
01:20:21.475 --> 01:20:27.815
sunset. No big deal. Right? But if there's, like, a controversial video that gets posted or something like that Yeah.

1039
01:20:28.675 --> 01:20:29.175
And,

1040
01:20:29.600 --> 01:20:38.900
you know, I I personally think Alex Jones can go fuck himself, but he's a really good case study. Yeah. And so, like, Alex Jones, like, releases some kind of really controversial video,

1041
01:20:39.545 --> 01:20:44.125
and it it gets censored from 80% of the Internet, 90% of the Internet.

1042
01:20:44.665 --> 01:20:47.500
Like, people will sit there and wait a minute and a half

1043
01:20:48.300 --> 01:20:49.360
to watch the video.

1044
01:20:49.900 --> 01:20:52.240
Like, if if there's something they need to see,

1045
01:20:52.620 --> 01:20:56.800
they really wanna see it, and they're being blocked from seeing it, then at that point,

1046
01:20:57.385 --> 01:20:58.685
they're willing to,

1047
01:20:59.465 --> 01:21:04.525
first of all, pay for it, and they're willing to deal with the friction of the loading times and whatnot.

1048
01:21:05.030 --> 01:21:08.969
And so, like, how do you do that gracefully? Right? Is that the that's basically

1049
01:21:10.070 --> 01:21:13.105
how you guys are looking at it. Yeah. The gracefully part is

1050
01:21:14.305 --> 01:21:15.925
oh, is question is hard.

1051
01:21:16.305 --> 01:21:16.805
But

1052
01:21:17.745 --> 01:21:20.005
it kinda like Stu's point. Like, that is

1053
01:21:20.385 --> 01:21:21.680
the that's the

1054
01:21:22.400 --> 01:21:24.340
I think that was the missing piece to

1055
01:21:24.960 --> 01:21:25.460
some,

1056
01:21:25.760 --> 01:21:33.735
like, censorship resistant media is that the peer to peer, the censorship resistant part, the, you know, the resilient part to all that,

1057
01:21:34.115 --> 01:21:34.935
that's like

1058
01:21:35.395 --> 01:21:42.600
break glass in case of emergency. Like, we can still use S3 buckets. We can still use all that great hosting, the fastest hosting that we have.

1059
01:21:43.380 --> 01:21:44.920
The important part is that,

1060
01:21:45.300 --> 01:21:53.875
as you said, like, you can get it when it's down. When it go when it disappears, when it gets censored, that's when you start needing, like, the central super assistant. That's when you start needing the network.

1061
01:21:55.535 --> 01:21:57.295
The gracefully part, let's just

1062
01:21:59.700 --> 01:22:01.460
well, there's many ways to solve that. There's,

1063
01:22:03.060 --> 01:22:15.410
you have to get the file and you knowing what you want and you're how it's searching the network is part of like what I mentioned earlier about having the pub key. If you know who posted it, or you know who who of your friends might have it and have talked about it,

1064
01:22:16.370 --> 01:22:27.655
that that reduces the search area, which can make which can make getting the the the file you're looking for a lot a lot faster. I mean, if you kinda think about it, like, that's what happens already. Right? It's like if there's something controversial,

1065
01:22:28.675 --> 01:22:31.575
what really happens is, like, it's like WhatsApp groups

1066
01:22:32.115 --> 01:22:39.870
or signal groups or something. It's like people are just messaging, like, did you do you have the file? Yeah. Like, can you send me the file? And it's just manual text messages,

1067
01:22:40.645 --> 01:22:50.070
like, on chat apps and chat groups. Like, can did you download it? Did you get it before they banned it? Share it. Part about it is you say, do you have that file?

1068
01:22:50.469 --> 01:23:03.295
Like, that's a shared understanding of what file. You have no idea if you're talking about Right. You're not checking the hash and seeing if it's actually been modified or not. And we're entering the age of AI, so it's, like, relatively easy to mod like, there's gonna be all these fake show. I've

1069
01:23:03.755 --> 01:23:05.630
given the AI way too much,

1070
01:23:06.110 --> 01:23:09.170
the LLMs way too much content of me speaking.

1071
01:23:09.550 --> 01:23:17.795
They could probably make me say whatever they want me to say. Dude, that's another thing. I feel like almost just like the simple fact of having a hash of a file

1072
01:23:18.255 --> 01:23:26.199
that is signed by the author of the file. Massive. Dude, that is like the one that might be bigger than all of Nostra combined.

1073
01:23:26.500 --> 01:23:33.545
If once once the average person's like like, oh, like, they they they they're they're gonna be so freaked out the first time they see a video

1074
01:23:34.005 --> 01:23:35.625
AI deep fake of themself.

1075
01:23:36.165 --> 01:23:44.440
There's it'd be like a moral panic about that. And then if you had a service that was like, look. This is a CDN, except it contains this little signature.

1076
01:23:44.820 --> 01:23:47.160
Don't trust anything unless it has this little signature.

1077
01:23:47.620 --> 01:23:55.135
Most the average person can completely understand that. The client can just give you, like, a little check mark, like, Odell posted this. This is what Odell wanted

1078
01:23:55.594 --> 01:24:11.094
was saying. Not all face. Part. Sorry not to jump in and interrupt you guys. The craziest part about that is it doesn't have to be a Noesha client. You can take the hash of the file that you're currently watching. You have the whole video and you grab the hash of it, and then you go to the Noesta network and be like, who has posted this hash?

1079
01:24:11.395 --> 01:24:23.425
Oh, it's Odell. Okay. He's like connected to me in this way, so it's all good. Like, you don't even have to show it like it has a no you could just put it anywhere and use the Nostra network as a lookup table for like,

1080
01:24:24.305 --> 01:24:27.205
not accountability, but for, reputation in a sense.

1081
01:24:27.665 --> 01:24:29.765
Yeah. That's yeah. That's huge.

1082
01:24:30.660 --> 01:24:33.219
Yeah. The whole AI thing is really, really, really,

1083
01:24:33.780 --> 01:24:43.485
almost like kind of an accelerant on top of all these trends, I feel like, which is, like, good because it makes you build the infrastructure in a way that's really, like, defensible.

1084
01:24:45.065 --> 01:25:06.230
So yeah. I mean, I I think there's almost there's this interesting connection between trying to defend against spam and trying to find actual interesting content source of signal. It's the same problem. It's just looking at it of, like, are you trying to get rid of the bad? Are you trying to find the good and find the needle in the haystack? And, like, and if you're gonna have if you like, even just a market for files that people want,

1085
01:25:06.770 --> 01:25:09.510
like, the files that people pay for

1086
01:25:10.025 --> 01:25:22.290
is almost itself a trending feed of sorts, a kind of honest trending feed. Right. So you could, you know Well, the problem is I mean, the problem I understand with zaps is, like, it's hard to verify.

1087
01:25:24.429 --> 01:25:25.969
Like, zaps are not verifiable.

1088
01:25:27.775 --> 01:25:30.594
No. But I cache, I think we can make verifiable.

1089
01:25:31.855 --> 01:25:38.110
Well, maybe the BitTorrent version of this is IP addresses, like Cedars because IP addresses are actually,

1090
01:25:38.410 --> 01:25:44.025
you know, edge just edge cases, but they're kind of a scarce thing. So if you could have a,

1091
01:25:44.405 --> 01:25:49.545
you know, some type of network space, there is a kind of scarcity inherent in network topology

1092
01:25:49.925 --> 01:25:53.940
that might be useful. There's something more scarce than IP addresses though.

1093
01:25:54.320 --> 01:26:08.145
Mhmm. Nose to public keys and a reputation. The connection the connections that make the connections that connect you. Yeah. But more importantly, the connections that connect you to the other random person you just met. Like, that's a really small dataset.

1094
01:26:08.580 --> 01:26:10.040
So if you're looking for, like,

1095
01:26:10.580 --> 01:26:15.320
who to connect to or or who to get this file from or who has the most reputation in the network,

1096
01:26:15.864 --> 01:26:23.405
If I see a random key that I have no connections with, like, if I search my friends list and they have no connections and so on and so on, then,

1097
01:26:23.784 --> 01:26:24.284
like,

1098
01:26:24.585 --> 01:26:25.324
it's it's

1099
01:26:25.900 --> 01:26:29.280
basically has a rank of 0, you know, web of trust kind of stuff. But then if

1100
01:26:30.060 --> 01:26:45.310
if, like, I know that, like, Stu is if I'm if I'm looking for a file and I see that, like, Stu's public key says that he has the file or he has the thing I'm looking for, that's like, well, I don't need to do hardly any verification. I might not even need to pay him, like we just have trust. But if I see it's like a friend of a friend of a friend,

1101
01:26:45.610 --> 01:26:49.690
I might need to pay him. But like, I'm like, oh, okay. I can see how you connect to me.

1102
01:26:50.490 --> 01:26:52.235
It's a really rare. It's a it's a

1103
01:26:53.835 --> 01:26:56.175
to your point too about like, would you say,

1104
01:26:57.355 --> 01:27:00.574
things that are rare or things that are scarce. It's a really scarce connection.

1105
01:27:01.230 --> 01:27:06.510
Yeah. There's only, like, a few of them. There's only a few thousand of them that if you go friends are friends. So

1106
01:27:07.630 --> 01:27:12.485
Yeah. You you need some form of scarcity to to serve as, like, the backing asset

1107
01:27:12.865 --> 01:27:14.405
to create any finite

1108
01:27:14.785 --> 01:27:19.365
system. You know, like, the infinities always destroy your beautiful constructs.

1109
01:27:19.730 --> 01:27:25.910
You can't have infinities sneaking into your models, and so you need some kind of thing that brings this

1110
01:27:26.210 --> 01:27:36.760
in infinite space down into kind of, like, a concrete finite thing. And so, I mean, you know, like, Bitcoin just uses energy, which is, like, the most bulletproof physics based form of scarcity, but there's these kind of, like,

1111
01:27:38.199 --> 01:27:43.079
higher level forms of scarcity like reputation and network topology and, you know,

1112
01:27:43.880 --> 01:27:45.420
maybe other things like

1113
01:27:46.305 --> 01:27:52.805
human humans themselves, human attention, something like that that I think almost, like, kinda recapitulate this process of scarcity

1114
01:27:53.560 --> 01:27:54.060
projection.

1115
01:27:54.360 --> 01:27:57.500
And it's just no no is almost, like, very interesting,

1116
01:27:58.040 --> 01:27:58.940
kind of like,

1117
01:27:59.560 --> 01:28:02.060
it's, the social media version of,

1118
01:28:02.520 --> 01:28:04.445
like, this it's like projecting

1119
01:28:05.304 --> 01:28:17.000
reputation like, it's it's projecting the scarcity inherent in human social networks onto the Internet just like bit Bitcoin is projecting the scarcity inherent in physics onto the Internet. Right. So it's like

1120
01:28:17.559 --> 01:28:24.565
you know, you can take an analogy too far, but I think it is an interesting lens sometimes to think about some of this stuff. It can reveal things.

1121
01:28:27.390 --> 01:28:32.370
So I don't know. I don't I I always I kinda wondered for a long time, like, who were the miners of Noster?

1122
01:28:32.830 --> 01:28:35.485
You know what I mean? Who are the people that are,

1123
01:28:35.864 --> 01:28:37.405
like, really holding the cards?

1124
01:28:38.905 --> 01:28:39.725
I'm not sure.

1125
01:28:41.225 --> 01:28:43.440
The shit posters maybe? Shit posters.

1126
01:28:43.740 --> 01:28:47.840
They seem to be building the network. It's it's the meme. I'm the captain now.

1127
01:28:49.740 --> 01:28:50.240
Yeah.

1128
01:28:50.855 --> 01:28:52.875
Maybe that's dumb. Who are the miners?

1129
01:28:53.895 --> 01:28:59.755
I mean, right now, it seems like the relay operators are holding the cards. Like, the 6 people running the 6 biggest relays?

1130
01:29:00.060 --> 01:29:03.120
Yeah. Depends on what you mean by Nostril. Because if

1131
01:29:03.820 --> 01:29:12.065
if it's, like, the data that's being generated and and built up, then it's probably the relays. But if it's, like, the public key social graph,

1132
01:29:12.525 --> 01:29:15.244
then it's every single user. It's not the relays because

1133
01:29:16.140 --> 01:29:17.760
I mean, look. I sympathize

1134
01:29:18.140 --> 01:29:22.000
with, I would like to see outbox model, a horrible name, Humble model,

1135
01:29:22.460 --> 01:29:23.440
the Humble protocol,

1136
01:29:24.060 --> 01:29:27.005
implemented by as many clients as possible

1137
01:29:27.385 --> 01:29:33.804
to to reduce the reliance on individually large relays. But one of the cool beautiful aspects of Noster

1138
01:29:35.040 --> 01:29:36.500
is is simple,

1139
01:29:36.800 --> 01:29:45.574
you know, left left side of the bell curve concept that that these these notes are being broadcast, and people tend to hoard things

1140
01:29:45.955 --> 01:29:47.975
and they share them all around. I mean,

1141
01:29:48.435 --> 01:29:52.135
Will literally woke up one morning and deleted the Domus Relay,

1142
01:29:52.750 --> 01:29:54.370
and pretty much nothing happened.

1143
01:29:54.910 --> 01:29:56.930
Like, I know none of my notes were lost.

1144
01:29:58.270 --> 01:30:00.530
I don't know of any note of significance

1145
01:30:00.830 --> 01:30:01.695
that was lost.

1146
01:30:02.494 --> 01:30:06.195
If, like, if someone wants to let me know of a note that they're missing out on

1147
01:30:06.655 --> 01:30:12.170
when he deleted that relay and that's probably the most like, one of percentage wise, probably

1148
01:30:13.350 --> 01:30:14.410
the most centralized

1149
01:30:14.870 --> 01:30:17.130
we'll ever see in Noster history is

1150
01:30:17.755 --> 01:30:20.815
when he deleted that domus relay. Like, it was probably

1151
01:30:22.554 --> 01:30:25.534
I I don't you can't measure that. It's unmeasurable. But

1152
01:30:26.554 --> 01:30:26.970
Yes.

1153
01:30:27.610 --> 01:30:31.630
I don't think they hold that many cards. Like, I think you delete the top 6 relays,

1154
01:30:32.330 --> 01:30:37.535
and all my notes will still be there. Yeah. I see problem. Yeah. And nostrils still work.

1155
01:30:38.155 --> 01:30:38.655
So

1156
01:30:39.115 --> 01:30:42.335
is there really that like, we should have better protocols.

1157
01:30:42.950 --> 01:30:44.170
Like like, we should

1158
01:30:44.790 --> 01:30:46.250
the client should be smarter,

1159
01:30:47.590 --> 01:30:50.730
and we can improve them, but I just don't think it's, like, necessarily

1160
01:30:51.190 --> 01:30:52.835
a kill a kill shot.

1161
01:30:53.455 --> 01:31:00.190
And it's a little it's way different than miners and Bitcoin. And I also will say, completely irrelevant of all of this,

1162
01:31:00.510 --> 01:31:05.410
that you know it's a good dispatcher when you have Pablo in all caps in the comments.

1163
01:31:07.949 --> 01:31:15.364
That's so you know you're doing something right. Yeah. I'm gonna have to ask about this later. I'm curious about this users being the miners thing. I

1164
01:31:17.140 --> 01:31:19.400
that's I would like to make that more true.

1165
01:31:19.780 --> 01:31:26.855
I would like it to be more the case that users were holding the cards of the actual infrastructure in a way that, like,

1166
01:31:27.475 --> 01:31:45.125
every like, you know, Nostra kind of started almost took, like, the opposite path of Bitcoin where, like, Bitcoin started off where everyone was running this really full heavy node. And then it started moving in this light kind client direction because out of necessity. But then Nostra, maybe because it saw that, learned that lesson, it's like we're gonna have

1167
01:31:45.505 --> 01:31:54.570
smart clients that are smart enough to do all this, like, feed construction stuff, but basically, they're not gonna store all the data. They're basically nostril clients started as like clients.

1168
01:31:54.950 --> 01:32:00.330
But so now it's like almost maybe there's to equalize, there's a need to move in the other direction where you have

1169
01:32:01.014 --> 01:32:05.994
more nostril node type stuff on devices. I mean, obviously, not mobile devices.

1170
01:32:06.295 --> 01:32:08.315
It it it's moving in the other direction.

1171
01:32:08.700 --> 01:32:10.880
Yeah. So it's moving in the other direction because

1172
01:32:11.420 --> 01:32:19.705
the user is the miner, and the what is the miner doing? The miner is, like, deciding what goes in and what doesn't. It's it's it's the thing that's making the decisions on the network.

1173
01:32:20.085 --> 01:32:21.785
And there's no consensus

1174
01:32:22.325 --> 01:32:22.825
in

1175
01:32:23.205 --> 01:32:25.730
there's no consensus in Noester. And so

1176
01:32:26.190 --> 01:32:31.410
the well, you can't have no consensus. There's no consensus, so that means it's just the individual.

1177
01:32:31.870 --> 01:32:32.530
And so

1178
01:32:33.390 --> 01:32:36.035
the individual is kind of their own minor,

1179
01:32:36.655 --> 01:32:38.915
making their own decisions, making their own

1180
01:32:39.535 --> 01:32:40.755
stack of data

1181
01:32:41.055 --> 01:32:45.150
that they that they have, like, kind of put into their own consent. Look. If you it's kind of,

1182
01:32:46.170 --> 01:32:48.270
kind of a stretch of an analogy, but it's

1183
01:32:49.370 --> 01:32:50.110
they're mining,

1184
01:32:50.650 --> 01:32:53.550
you know, with their attention. They're mining what they find

1185
01:32:53.945 --> 01:33:19.494
most interesting and collecting it. Well, this is the local cache relay thing. This is basically yeah. If you had if if if you take this to the theoretical extreme, if if every user was a relay, well, that's called a peer to peer network. So then that question doesn't make sense anymore if whether it's the relays or the users But aren't we trying to avoid that? Well, I think we're trying to avoid peer to peer network as the transport layer. See, and I I always get in dangerous territory when I start bringing up peer to peer, but I think that

1186
01:33:19.880 --> 01:33:35.245
I I I Fiat Jaff is so angry at you. Right? No. No. No. I've talked to Fiat Jaff about that. I've I he originally was, like, hell suspicious, but I think that peer to I'll be clear. Peer to peer network as the transport layer is a terrible idea and will never work. However,

1187
01:33:35.625 --> 01:33:37.645
peer to peer network as a slow

1188
01:33:38.320 --> 01:33:39.220
kind of recovery

1189
01:33:39.680 --> 01:33:40.180
archival,

1190
01:33:41.680 --> 01:33:44.820
layer is a great idea, and and the 2 can work together.

1191
01:33:45.200 --> 01:34:24.810
You have, like, the relays and the s three buckets, but the all they need is just this little emergency system to where if that gets nuked, they can be like, hey, decentralized social network people, can you all upload this stuff again, please? And then, like, the benefit of that is that if you if you are one of those people who are backing up stuff, you're backing up notes, you're backing up media, you have a Nostra Relay and a Blossom server on your local host machine. I would do that. Yeah. No. That's that's what that's what the whole what happens. Dozens of us that would do that. Right? Like I mean, actually, I mean percent. Like, if I could just toggle that mode and it was just making all this backing up shit. That's the whole point of making in the satellite community as a desktop app is because the whole whole idea started

1192
01:34:25.245 --> 01:34:35.890
as a local relay backup thingy. I was like, wouldn't that be great if you had a relay that was 0 mill milliseconds from your app? Like, it would, but then it turns out it also serves as an archival mechanism. So it's really interesting.

1193
01:34:36.350 --> 01:34:39.090
Well, the cool part is it serves as an archival mechanism,

1194
01:34:40.830 --> 01:34:53.180
not because we it's funny with data backups. It serves as an archival mechanism, not because you have the data, because it can download everything on the Internet and have the data. It serves as an archival mechanism because I can re upload it. Because those things are signed,

1195
01:34:53.560 --> 01:34:58.615
there's no questions about whether, like, reuploading it or not. I can't modify it.

1196
01:34:59.095 --> 01:35:01.755
Yeah. Because if I download all my pictures on Facebook,

1197
01:35:02.375 --> 01:35:08.260
I have a great archive of my on my feed on Facebook, but it's completely useless to anybody but me.

1198
01:35:08.719 --> 01:35:20.795
But the cool part about Noester is if I download everything I care about on Noester, it's very valuable to me and maybe other people because I can just because it's all signed. I can just put it back up. Right. There's no trust involved, and it's beautiful.

1199
01:35:23.550 --> 01:35:24.370
That yeah. That's

1200
01:35:24.990 --> 01:35:26.930
I people are sleeping on it.

1201
01:35:27.310 --> 01:35:28.050
Oh, yeah.

1202
01:35:29.390 --> 01:35:29.890
I,

1203
01:35:31.310 --> 01:35:32.105
I mean, like,

1204
01:35:33.305 --> 01:35:34.285
we're nobodies.

1205
01:35:35.305 --> 01:35:36.364
Right? But, like

1206
01:35:36.665 --> 01:35:38.845
like, leaders of of countries.

1207
01:35:39.920 --> 01:35:46.500
Like, what? They're just, like, posting unsigned events out to the world. Like, what the fuck are they doing? Like, they they don't even realize.

1208
01:35:47.545 --> 01:35:49.485
Yeah. Yeah. I I

1209
01:35:50.185 --> 01:35:54.364
it just feels early for some reason. It's It's like literally Elon Musk

1210
01:35:54.699 --> 01:36:00.239
can just decide. Like, you're just a random world leader. You're like the fucking president of Paraguay.

1211
01:36:00.699 --> 01:36:07.235
Don't know who that guy is. He just, like he posted a tweet. Like, Elon can just make the tweet whatever he wants it to be.

1212
01:36:09.375 --> 01:36:11.210
And everyone's cool with it. No

1213
01:36:11.590 --> 01:36:16.489
no one realizes the issues inherent with that. I think people are gonna start to realize the issues.

1214
01:36:18.550 --> 01:36:23.555
Yeah. And it's as you I think as you mentioned before, Stu, it's like,

1215
01:36:24.175 --> 01:36:30.240
AI is just accelerating that. Like, it's it's pushing that faster and faster and faster. It's making it more and more obvious that, like,

1216
01:36:30.700 --> 01:36:33.200
the communication layer and the data, like

1217
01:36:33.900 --> 01:36:37.855
yeah. I don't know what's gonna happen, but it's it's gonna have to end in some sort of

1218
01:36:38.335 --> 01:36:39.155
self verifiable

1219
01:36:39.695 --> 01:36:40.195
signatures.

1220
01:36:40.975 --> 01:36:42.755
There's no there's no there's no

1221
01:36:43.375 --> 01:36:44.595
like, AI is gonna

1222
01:36:45.110 --> 01:36:52.795
destroy every little bit of trust on the Internet that was, like, inherent to just like oh. It is It's great. We need we need this. Yes.

1223
01:36:53.255 --> 01:36:57.755
AI sometimes I say that AI is, postmodern self postmodernism self destructing

1224
01:36:58.375 --> 01:37:05.099
because AI is the most postmodern technology that has ever existed because all it does is ingest and reexpress

1225
01:37:05.800 --> 01:37:11.115
the entire canon of everything that's ever been made. And so it has, like, the ultimate

1226
01:37:11.815 --> 01:37:12.875
ability to,

1227
01:37:13.815 --> 01:37:20.160
create, generate something that is based on something that already exists. But it it so it's completely commoditized the expression

1228
01:37:20.700 --> 01:37:22.880
expression, but it has not commoditized,

1229
01:37:24.140 --> 01:37:24.640
truth.

1230
01:37:25.065 --> 01:37:25.885
It's not commoditized

1231
01:37:26.425 --> 01:37:34.100
and, like, truth in a in a sort of, like, socially constructed way. Like, what do we want? Well, truth is values we're trying to do. You know?

1232
01:37:34.500 --> 01:37:36.920
Truth in the physical world sense.

1233
01:37:37.220 --> 01:37:49.605
Because it can make up its own truth on the Internet, but it has no relevance to us humans who live in the real world. Well, also truth in the social consensus way. Yes. Because, like, one of the things you saw during the pandemic was, like,

1234
01:37:49.980 --> 01:37:57.600
this function of Reddit. Because, like, I I I mean, I think Reddit has been, like I'm gonna braille on Reddit for a second, but I I feel like Reddit has been a spy op

1235
01:37:57.980 --> 01:37:58.720
for, like,

1236
01:37:59.665 --> 01:38:02.485
a few years now, probably ever since, like, 2015 or 2016.

1237
01:38:03.345 --> 01:38:07.605
Bought it or whatever? Yeah. Probably. I mean yeah. Or whenever it became

1238
01:38:08.040 --> 01:38:08.940
apparent that

1239
01:38:09.480 --> 01:38:15.340
social media is no longer downstream of the world, but the world is kind of downstream of social media. Once whenever that thing changed,

1240
01:38:16.315 --> 01:38:19.135
Reddit be was this thing where, like, it tried,

1241
01:38:19.435 --> 01:38:27.440
you know, not not not only did it censor people, of course, it censored people, but the main way it functioned as a propaganda engine was by creating

1242
01:38:27.980 --> 01:38:29.440
the illusion of false consensus

1243
01:38:29.820 --> 01:38:45.570
where you go on there and if you're like, dude, isn't it kinda, like, weird that we're, like, all locked in doors for, like, 2 years for no reason? Like, the ability to make people feel like they're isolated in thinking that is the main power of Reddit. It's the it's the ability to atomize people and to prevent

1244
01:38:46.030 --> 01:38:48.130
this kind of consensus about reality.

1245
01:38:48.675 --> 01:38:49.175
And

1246
01:38:49.475 --> 01:38:50.455
so you need

1247
01:38:50.995 --> 01:39:06.005
and and AI is kind of like almost just to putting that on, like, super max mode where any if you wanted to make it look like you an entire crowd of thousands of people agreed about something, well, then you just spin up a 1,000 convincing sounding AI personas. And so,

1248
01:39:06.385 --> 01:39:19.180
fortunately, actually, what it's doing what it's doing is AI is kind of leveling the playing field to where anyone can make it look like tons of people believe anything because you don't know what real people are anymore. And that's actually good because now it just means that the only

1249
01:39:19.614 --> 01:39:21.875
playing field that exists anymore is this cryptographically

1250
01:39:22.415 --> 01:39:22.915
prescribed

1251
01:39:23.375 --> 01:39:30.310
web of trust area. So the maybe the the overall thesis is that this is good because Nostra is gonna be the last social network left standing.

1252
01:39:34.370 --> 01:39:35.830
Yeah. It it can't copy.

1253
01:39:36.385 --> 01:39:38.005
AI can't copy. It can copy

1254
01:39:38.545 --> 01:39:41.844
it can't copy the rare things. It can't copy Bitcoin, and it can't copy

1255
01:39:42.225 --> 01:39:42.725
cryptography.

1256
01:39:43.160 --> 01:39:45.020
Yeah. It can't forge a digital signature.

1257
01:39:45.560 --> 01:39:47.900
It's, you know, like, the whole asymmetric key,

1258
01:39:49.000 --> 01:39:54.225
cryptography thing, it's really there's something really poetic about it that we we're really familiar with

1259
01:39:54.685 --> 01:39:57.425
the obfuscation aspect of encryption

1260
01:39:57.885 --> 01:40:03.490
to where, like, if we didn't have, crypto no. It's asymmetric key cryptography, we wouldn't be able to have a private sphere.

1261
01:40:04.030 --> 01:40:04.530
Right.

1262
01:40:04.910 --> 01:40:10.275
However, what's an kind of underrated observation, I think, is that without this cryptographic,

1263
01:40:11.054 --> 01:40:13.954
construct of digital signatures, which is, of course, just the mathematical

1264
01:40:14.255 --> 01:40:17.315
other side of the coin, you wouldn't be able to have a public sphere.

1265
01:40:17.880 --> 01:40:19.659
And we're in the we're in this,

1266
01:40:20.679 --> 01:40:24.460
sort of transitionary stage where the public sphere used to be just

1267
01:40:25.135 --> 01:40:27.315
defined by the hegemonic media,

1268
01:40:28.335 --> 01:40:36.449
you know, cable news or Reddit or, like, wherever web 2 is kind of like the the public sphere for, you know, in in our at least in my lifetime.

1269
01:40:36.989 --> 01:40:51.860
But now there's, like, this need to construct an actual cryptographic public sphere. So I think that's gonna be, like maybe the 20 twenties are gonna be, like, the second version of the crypto wars. If, like, if nineties if the nineties was the crypto wars for the ability to have privacy,

1270
01:40:52.240 --> 01:40:54.000
the twenties are gonna be the,

1271
01:40:54.400 --> 01:41:00.905
the the the war for authenticity. The war The war never happened. No. The war never ended, Stuart.

1272
01:41:01.365 --> 01:41:05.945
It's just been continuing. Really? Maybe I'm naive. It seems like we at least,

1273
01:41:06.405 --> 01:41:08.350
won on a technical basis, though,

1274
01:41:09.610 --> 01:41:16.975
or at least maybe just We've won some battles. Yeah. Some battles have been won, but the war has been continuing. Created a little bit of space.

1275
01:41:17.435 --> 01:41:19.775
Yeah. I just think everyone's sleeping on this shit.

1276
01:41:20.075 --> 01:41:22.015
Yeah. It's crazy. I feel so crazy.

1277
01:41:22.875 --> 01:41:30.895
I feel like such a crazy person. I felt like a crazy person for many years with Bitcoin. Now, like, Larry Fink's shilling it on CNBC and stuff.

1278
01:41:31.195 --> 01:41:32.095
It's like, okay.

1279
01:41:33.115 --> 01:41:34.415
I'm no longer crazy.

1280
01:41:34.795 --> 01:41:38.975
And now on on the Nostra side, I just feel like a fucking crazy person,

1281
01:41:39.515 --> 01:41:41.120
but it's so fucking massive.

1282
01:41:41.820 --> 01:41:50.875
It's so fucking massive. And I just I wanna tell everyone who will listen, but also at the same time, like, I'm just so diluted and disenfranchised from my years at Bitcoin

1283
01:41:51.255 --> 01:41:55.755
that I also just don't give a shit. I'm just like, whatever. Just build it, and then

1284
01:41:56.270 --> 01:41:58.210
they'll come eventually. They'll figure it out.

1285
01:41:59.710 --> 01:42:01.090
Yeah. The selling point,

1286
01:42:01.950 --> 01:42:03.810
I feel crazy a little bit, but

1287
01:42:04.830 --> 01:42:05.330
the

1288
01:42:07.295 --> 01:42:08.755
part of the I guess

1289
01:42:10.815 --> 01:42:18.210
there's just something unique about Noeschter. There's something and it's not just like a theoretical thing. It's back to what I initially said before. It's the only network,

1290
01:42:18.590 --> 01:42:26.304
really social network, we can hack on. And so, like, I don't know why, like, it does feel crazy to be like on this, to be almost dedicated to this

1291
01:42:26.764 --> 01:42:32.900
network that has such a small in comparison, such a small community. Like, how many of them how many of us are there?

1292
01:42:33.460 --> 01:42:38.120
We have, like, 20,000 people or something? I think monthly active pub keys is around 20,000,

1293
01:42:38.659 --> 01:42:39.320
I think.

1294
01:42:40.085 --> 01:42:46.105
I haven't looked in a long time, though. It's mostly active pub keys, so who knows how many people there are? They're all dogs.

1295
01:42:49.560 --> 01:42:50.780
Dude, dogs are great.

1296
01:42:52.440 --> 01:42:54.139
I'm cool with working for them.

1297
01:42:54.679 --> 01:42:55.179
Yeah.

1298
01:42:55.704 --> 01:43:03.485
Well, that's maybe the point is is that there's no such thing as a proof of unique human. There's just, humans exist on the Internet as a probability distribution.

1299
01:43:04.000 --> 01:43:10.260
You know? I love that. I love the I I mean, that that's that's that's You're like I know that that's demonstrated

1300
01:43:10.960 --> 01:43:14.995
so well by the fact that the follower count is not consistent. You fucking

1301
01:43:15.555 --> 01:43:16.295
so I actually

1302
01:43:16.755 --> 01:43:18.775
consider this for your Nostra client.

1303
01:43:20.035 --> 01:43:22.340
People just wanna see a number go up.

1304
01:43:23.060 --> 01:43:24.679
So just mathematically

1305
01:43:25.300 --> 01:43:26.920
increase their follower number

1306
01:43:27.300 --> 01:43:32.040
over time. You're like, I gained 0.25 followers. They're just constantly growing forever.

1307
01:43:32.385 --> 01:43:42.289
Just their follower count just constantly grows. If they like the number going up, I could just give them a a button that would create a fake pub key that would then subscribe to them and fill it for fake information,

1308
01:43:42.750 --> 01:43:50.305
and then they could have an extra follower. You're going too far. You can just hard code it. You just be like, every day, your follower count goes up by 1%

1309
01:43:50.925 --> 01:43:51.585
and just

1310
01:43:52.445 --> 01:43:55.585
they're like, oh my god. There's so many people following me. 21,000,000

1311
01:43:55.885 --> 01:43:57.400
followers that asymptotically

1312
01:43:57.700 --> 01:44:13.760
approaches, the I know. It'll get ridiculous eventually. We can fix it. At that at that point, we'll be the standard. It won't even fucking matter. Then it's just like, oh, like, here's your actual here's your actual follower count. But in the meantime, you just like you know, TikTok, you have to work for it. Twitter, you might have to work for it.

1313
01:44:14.320 --> 01:44:16.579
On Nostar, your follower count just increases

1314
01:44:16.880 --> 01:44:17.539
every day

1315
01:44:18.000 --> 01:44:18.500
forever.

1316
01:44:22.054 --> 01:44:23.114
There's something there.

1317
01:44:23.735 --> 01:44:27.355
That would be a fun I'm just I'm putting it out there. Not involved.

1318
01:44:27.895 --> 01:44:32.750
Not the person who did it. You know, but someone should make a client that just increases

1319
01:44:33.130 --> 01:44:33.870
your money. How much,

1320
01:44:34.890 --> 01:44:35.370
how much,

1321
01:44:36.090 --> 01:44:38.110
there's gonna be some people who know about

1322
01:44:38.435 --> 01:44:39.815
basic, like, bot

1323
01:44:40.195 --> 01:44:46.695
farm kind of things, like, bot users. Right? You can spin those up relatively easily on Twitter. Yeah. Have you seen the Nostridge House people?

1324
01:44:47.390 --> 01:44:51.250
No. Like, the they have, like, the AI that just responds to everything.

1325
01:44:52.670 --> 01:44:55.170
They they all are they're all nip5 verified@nostridge.house.

1326
01:44:57.125 --> 01:44:58.105
Oh, this is awesome.

1327
01:44:59.125 --> 01:45:10.080
Yeah. Like, there was a whole controversy where, like, I was like, oh, like, ask me any question you want. Like, I'm gonna open book. And, like, even the AI was, like, asking me questions. I was like, I'm not answering the AI questions.

1328
01:45:11.020 --> 01:45:12.880
I was like, I know you're at nostridge.house.

1329
01:45:13.340 --> 01:45:17.225
Like, I'm not answering your questions. And then some of the questions were kinda good, though.

1330
01:45:18.485 --> 01:45:24.505
Ostrich. Got it. But that like, you could you could, in theory, just pay to have those things follow you if you need followers.

1331
01:45:25.010 --> 01:45:28.389
I know. It's super easy. I mean, that's what like, what's a real follower?

1332
01:45:29.090 --> 01:45:29.590
Exactly.

1333
01:45:30.530 --> 01:45:32.375
But same thing with Twitter and all the

1334
01:45:35.095 --> 01:45:37.355
Pomp became Pomp. Pomp was a nobody,

1335
01:45:38.775 --> 01:45:40.395
and he just paid for followers

1336
01:45:40.775 --> 01:45:44.380
on Twitter. I mean, it was, like, India click farms and shit, but

1337
01:45:45.400 --> 01:45:50.425
I mean, with Nastr, it's like it really, like, pulls away the curtain. Right? Like, because I can just

1338
01:45:50.985 --> 01:45:53.804
be a nobody and just generate a 1000000 end pubs.

1339
01:45:54.184 --> 01:45:55.965
Yeah. And, like, are they followers?

1340
01:45:56.505 --> 01:45:58.045
And, like, what is a follower?

1341
01:45:59.900 --> 01:46:05.180
And, like, really, just people wanna look at their profile and see the number go up, though. That's what I'm saying. This is, like, you just kinda

1342
01:46:05.665 --> 01:46:10.625
I like this product thinking. You kinda just accelerate it. You're just like, whatever. You know? We all

1343
01:46:11.505 --> 01:46:21.120
oh, even the plebs on Noster have a 1000000 followers. You know? It's just like everyone's like it's just growing exponentially. No. That's actually a really that's, you could sort of hyperinflate

1344
01:46:21.500 --> 01:46:21.980
attention

1345
01:46:22.465 --> 01:46:24.804
the attention economy in some way. Like,

1346
01:46:25.184 --> 01:46:34.960
if you really wanna get rid of kill Google, just make, like, a 1,000,000,000 AIs that click on AdWords things, and they'll be bankrupt in no time. There you go. That's crazy. Excel. Right?

1347
01:46:35.420 --> 01:46:43.355
Yeah. You know, that's one of the things about, that I feel like, Google's goose, I feel like, is really quite cooked in some sense unless they really pivot because

1348
01:46:43.735 --> 01:46:47.650
someone at that cohort actually mentioned to me that I should check out perplexity dotai,

1349
01:46:48.110 --> 01:46:50.110
which is like an open source version of,

1350
01:46:50.750 --> 01:47:00.875
chat g p t kind of. It runs like the open source models and it uses. I think what it does is it just queries different search engines that it has an LLM summarizes search results, and it's really great because it's like,

1351
01:47:01.195 --> 01:47:05.360
answer engine essentially. But what they do is they have this way

1352
01:47:05.739 --> 01:47:14.775
of configuring your queries to where you can use, like, Stack Overflow or Reddit or whatever as, like, kind of, like, the source of signal that you use to summarize.

1353
01:47:15.155 --> 01:47:16.375
And I think it's really,

1354
01:47:16.835 --> 01:47:22.215
really showing you and pointing, like, it's like to me, that's like a very strong indicator that,

1355
01:47:23.219 --> 01:47:26.840
there's gonna be this scramble for sources of actual signal,

1356
01:47:28.340 --> 01:47:31.965
in in the world. And may maybe Nostra, like, being, like,

1357
01:47:32.585 --> 01:47:37.005
the back end data layer of an answer engine might be, like, its main utility.

1358
01:47:37.465 --> 01:47:38.685
And if that happens,

1359
01:47:39.145 --> 01:47:40.844
then that will kind of, like,

1360
01:47:41.210 --> 01:47:46.350
position Nostra as in a very strong position as, like, the author and arbiter of,

1361
01:47:47.610 --> 01:47:52.434
signal and information which could be very strong. So I guess I guess my point in saying that is that, like,

1362
01:47:52.735 --> 01:47:57.795
leaning into making Nostra as easy to scrape as possible is a good strategic move

1363
01:47:58.175 --> 01:47:58.675
because,

1364
01:47:59.135 --> 01:48:15.025
you know, it's it might be the only network left left standing and, like It will be. I mean, because everyone else is, like, basically moving to, like, the solution is more KYC. Well, can I Like, Like, that's what, like, Twitter, like, Twitter, like, part of it with Elon is, like, not only is the user more valuable

1365
01:48:15.645 --> 01:48:27.040
if they're k y c's and you have identifying information with them? Give give credit card data. There's a reason it doesn't accept Bitcoin payments. He wants the credit card data. Credit card data gives a lot of information about an individual.

1366
01:48:27.764 --> 01:48:28.425
But, also,

1367
01:48:29.284 --> 01:48:30.264
like, are you clicking?

1368
01:48:30.965 --> 01:48:35.840
Like, who's clicking the fucking link? Like, he doesn't wanna pay out random Twitter bots

1369
01:48:36.400 --> 01:48:37.540
to click links,

1370
01:48:37.920 --> 01:48:41.060
and then he has to he has to pay out the ad re the ad payments

1371
01:48:41.520 --> 01:48:45.755
on a CPM basis. He doesn't wanna do that. He wants to only pay out

1372
01:48:46.135 --> 01:48:47.675
if it's a KYC person.

1373
01:48:48.695 --> 01:48:52.780
And and more and more of the Internet is going to let's KYC as many people as

1374
01:48:53.659 --> 01:49:02.159
possible. And Nasr is kind of going in the exact opposite way Yeah. And doing, like, sign pub keys I mean, pub key signatures and

1375
01:49:03.245 --> 01:49:07.505
Web of Trust. And then you can you can act and then that actually works,

1376
01:49:08.605 --> 01:49:11.265
because you can fake all this KYC bullshit. Yeah.

1377
01:49:12.045 --> 01:49:18.620
How long do you think this is gonna take to play out? Do you think it's gonna be, like, a 5 e x thing? Or I don't know. Too long. Too long? Yeah.

1378
01:49:19.080 --> 01:49:19.820
I'm tired.

1379
01:49:20.385 --> 01:49:25.364
I don't know. I we'll we'll see. I I I do think, like, a lot of the LLM stuff,

1380
01:49:26.225 --> 01:49:29.130
AI shit, like, it accelerates a lot of this.

1381
01:49:29.750 --> 01:49:30.250
Yeah.

1382
01:49:30.869 --> 01:49:31.530
I mean,

1383
01:49:32.150 --> 01:49:33.770
you can cause, like, a

1384
01:49:34.745 --> 01:49:40.685
global incident if you do l m fuck LLM fuckery with, like, a world leader.

1385
01:49:43.200 --> 01:49:48.260
Like, imagine, like like, there was just, like, a fake Biden press release that came out or something.

1386
01:49:49.695 --> 01:49:52.435
And, like, so that those kind of things could accelerate.

1387
01:49:53.855 --> 01:49:57.155
I I do wonder, like, when do we have our first world leader

1388
01:49:57.640 --> 01:49:58.220
on Noster?

1389
01:49:59.080 --> 01:50:01.580
Like, when do we have the first world leader that realizes

1390
01:50:02.280 --> 01:50:04.380
they wanna have censorship resistant

1391
01:50:04.994 --> 01:50:05.735
signed communications

1392
01:50:06.434 --> 01:50:08.614
with their populace and the rest of the world.

1393
01:50:08.994 --> 01:50:10.534
Maybe Bukele? Maybe?

1394
01:50:10.915 --> 01:50:15.790
Yeah. But I mean, besides him, I guess. Because, like, he's, like, seems like low hanging fruit. But, yeah,

1395
01:50:16.810 --> 01:50:18.750
he'll probably be the first. Let's be honest.

1396
01:50:20.090 --> 01:50:21.310
It's it's

1397
01:50:22.305 --> 01:50:23.285
yeah. I mean, you

1398
01:50:23.905 --> 01:50:28.245
it's inevitable in some sense. Well, inevitable if people figure things out, but,

1399
01:50:28.945 --> 01:50:30.460
yeah, faced with AI, it's

1400
01:50:31.500 --> 01:50:32.719
it's the it's like

1401
01:50:33.260 --> 01:50:40.115
the only solution, because you post another stuff, and you post the videos, or if you I mean, something even as simple, like even on Nostra right now.

1402
01:50:40.595 --> 01:50:42.455
If I post a link to an image

1403
01:50:42.835 --> 01:50:44.935
and the image the link doesn't contain

1404
01:50:45.475 --> 01:50:48.295
the hash of the image or that the event doesn't

1405
01:50:48.699 --> 01:50:53.920
reference the hash of the image in any way. Like, you have no way like, that that's Like, Milan could just change it.

1406
01:50:54.860 --> 01:51:05.784
Yeah. Well, as long as the there's If I host some Primal servers, like, Milan could just, like, change dispatch, and it could just be, like, download Primal. Download Primal over and over again.

1407
01:51:06.660 --> 01:51:15.015
There I I think there is, there's a there's extra metadata that can be added to the event about the thing you're linking to that can protect against that. But,

1408
01:51:15.495 --> 01:51:16.155
yeah, it's,

1409
01:51:17.255 --> 01:51:20.875
if you don't have that and you don't have the hash and you don't have the signature, it's

1410
01:51:21.895 --> 01:51:23.275
it's crazy how insecure

1411
01:51:23.575 --> 01:51:24.795
the Internet is.

1412
01:51:27.640 --> 01:51:35.395
Guys, I agree. I this has been a fucking amazing conversation. I would say to the freaks in the live chat who said a lot of this went over their head,

1413
01:51:36.415 --> 01:51:38.275
you know, part of what inspired

1414
01:51:38.975 --> 01:51:42.950
dispatch was the wonderful bitdevs community in New York,

1415
01:51:43.810 --> 01:51:49.105
led by our fearless leader, Jay. I no longer live in New York, but it's one of the things I miss the most.

1416
01:51:49.825 --> 01:51:56.805
And I will say that the first 4 years of bit devs in New York, literally everything went over my head. It kinda just comes in through osmosis.

1417
01:51:57.840 --> 01:52:10.035
You just wanna surround you surround yourself with people talking about interesting things, and it kinda just comes in. So don't get overwhelmed. Don't don't be like, holy shit. I had no fucking idea what the fuck was going on in this conversation.

1418
01:52:10.895 --> 01:52:15.780
It's important to go deep, and it it does it does work its way into your brain.

1419
01:52:17.600 --> 01:52:19.060
Guys, this has been

1420
01:52:20.880 --> 01:52:23.540
you you guys make me incredibly bullish on the future.

1421
01:52:24.385 --> 01:52:28.165
Thank you for both working on Noster. I I really do appreciate it.

1422
01:52:29.665 --> 01:52:32.405
I know it can be thankless a lot of the time. I know

1423
01:52:33.710 --> 01:52:35.490
people think we're fucking crazy.

1424
01:52:36.430 --> 01:52:41.330
But I I I really do appreciate it, and I appreciate you guys joining us for

1425
01:52:42.105 --> 01:52:45.804
the show. I know it's Hazard's only his only second time on a podcast,

1426
01:52:47.385 --> 01:52:49.005
which is kind of a big deal.

1427
01:52:49.969 --> 01:52:52.469
But thank you. I appreciate you both. Thanks,

1428
01:52:52.929 --> 01:52:53.250
man.

1429
01:52:53.730 --> 01:52:57.190
Yeah. A 100%. I'm gonna give you guys final thoughts, but before I do,

1430
01:52:57.685 --> 01:52:59.465
still dispatch has no ads or sponsors.

1431
01:53:00.165 --> 01:53:03.865
We are purely supported by Bitcoin donations from our audience.

1432
01:53:06.080 --> 01:53:08.020
I think it was unique this week,

1433
01:53:08.719 --> 01:53:12.080
that our largest supporter was a completely anonymous person,

1434
01:53:13.765 --> 01:53:17.385
who decided to send 21,000 sats. So shout out to you, Einon.

1435
01:53:17.845 --> 01:53:19.305
I do appreciate it.

1436
01:53:21.180 --> 01:53:24.719
We also had support from rider die freak, Ape, who

1437
01:53:25.580 --> 01:53:26.860
gave 18,000 sets.

1438
01:53:28.700 --> 01:53:29.840
And then we had

1439
01:53:30.575 --> 01:53:33.075
original size with 10,000 sets

1440
01:53:33.935 --> 01:53:34.435
and

1441
01:53:36.495 --> 01:53:37.940
with 10,000 sets.

1442
01:53:38.420 --> 01:53:39.239
I haven't met

1443
01:53:40.020 --> 01:53:42.920
in person yet. I'm gonna ask him how to pronounce his name

1444
01:53:43.300 --> 01:53:47.205
his name, but, I do appreciate him. He's helped out with open sats as well.

1445
01:53:47.845 --> 01:53:56.770
But, yeah, we don't have ads or sponsors. We're purely supported by our audience. Thank you guys for supporting us. Thank you for the rider, die freaks that are constantly in the live chat,

1446
01:53:57.330 --> 01:53:59.510
making this show unique, making the show,

1447
01:54:00.290 --> 01:54:04.550
special. That's what brings me back week after week. I know it's a bear market,

1448
01:54:05.245 --> 01:54:12.065
but it's not really a bear market. But I know Peter Schiff is saying that Bitcoin's going to 0, and you guys are all really scared out there, and you don't wanna

1449
01:54:12.445 --> 01:54:13.505
spend your Bitcoin.

1450
01:54:13.810 --> 01:54:16.550
And if that's the case, just share it with friends and family.

1451
01:54:16.850 --> 01:54:20.230
We're on every podcast app. We're on YouTube till we get banned.

1452
01:54:20.610 --> 01:54:25.094
We're on Twitter until I rashly decide to delete this dispatch Twitter account.

1453
01:54:26.514 --> 01:54:28.215
And all of our links are dispatch.com.

1454
01:54:28.675 --> 01:54:29.815
So just share that,

1455
01:54:30.434 --> 01:54:37.000
subscribe, and shit. I don't know. I don't really like doing that thing. Guys, Stuart, Hazard. This has been great.

1456
01:54:37.620 --> 01:54:41.480
Before we wrap up, let's, let's hit the audience with some final thoughts.

1457
01:54:42.020 --> 01:54:43.125
Stuart, final thoughts.

1458
01:54:44.005 --> 01:54:50.565
I mean, I feel like I kinda got into most of the stuff I wanted to get into today on technical level, but I just wanna say that,

1459
01:54:51.510 --> 01:54:55.050
appreciate you guys, and I'm happy to be part of this. I got a kind

1460
01:54:55.430 --> 01:55:00.035
of a kind of a funny feeling about this year. I feel like it's gonna be significant and

1461
01:55:00.675 --> 01:55:04.515
kind of really looking forward to see what happens, and, hopefully, I see,

1462
01:55:05.155 --> 01:55:08.535
some of you guys in Riga. I just signed up for gonna be in?

1463
01:55:09.510 --> 01:55:24.445
Yeah. I I hope so. I mean, I I I signed up for it. So assuming I get a ticket, I'm gonna get buy my plane tickets and I I assume you're gonna get a ticket. That'd be sweet. I would love to see some of these a lot of people that I've met over the last year there again in person because something about being around people is, I think, really important.

1464
01:55:24.745 --> 01:55:29.630
Maybe just everything's becoming AI, but, like, the flesh and blood is is becoming important, I think.

1465
01:55:30.010 --> 01:55:31.710
It is it always was important.

1466
01:55:33.210 --> 01:55:37.275
Fuck you. Well, thank you for joining us. I I plan to be in Riga.

1467
01:55:37.815 --> 01:55:41.835
Oh, sweet. I don't wanna feed the conspiracy theories too much, but I miss Nostrika.

1468
01:55:42.360 --> 01:55:43.260
I miss Nostrasia.

1469
01:55:44.360 --> 01:55:44.860
And,

1470
01:55:46.280 --> 01:55:51.425
Jack himself said to me, he was like, I'm just, like, paying for these events, and you're not showing up.

1471
01:55:52.145 --> 01:55:54.405
So I, like, feel, like, kind of, like, I should

1472
01:55:55.105 --> 01:55:58.005
I should I should show up to Riga. And, also, HODL HODL,

1473
01:55:58.465 --> 01:56:01.910
amazing people. I think it's the best Bitcoin conference of the year.

1474
01:56:02.490 --> 01:56:02.990
Riga

1475
01:56:03.570 --> 01:56:05.430
is a beautiful city. It's cheap.

1476
01:56:06.370 --> 01:56:08.710
Everyone speaks English. Very safe.

1477
01:56:10.965 --> 01:56:17.385
So people should consider going to Riga. I I I last time I was at was 2019, and I need to go back.

1478
01:56:18.810 --> 01:56:20.989
So I'm planning to go for the whole week.

1479
01:56:21.290 --> 01:56:22.989
I will give people a 95%

1480
01:56:23.370 --> 01:56:23.870
certainty,

1481
01:56:24.969 --> 01:56:26.030
that it will happen.

1482
01:56:27.555 --> 01:56:29.255
Gotta sign that with Nastr keys.

1483
01:56:29.795 --> 01:56:38.280
I'm not signing it yet with Nastr keys. You're you're just getting this. We can make a hash of this video file afterwards, and that that's the best you're getting.

1484
01:56:38.739 --> 01:56:40.040
Hazard, final thoughts.

1485
01:56:41.540 --> 01:56:42.440
Yeah. It's

1486
01:56:43.205 --> 01:56:45.385
it's great to be here. It's great to talk.

1487
01:56:45.685 --> 01:56:46.585
I love, like,

1488
01:56:47.125 --> 01:56:51.784
over the last year, since, I guess, the beginning of NoStar, there's nothing more fun than just talking to

1489
01:56:52.090 --> 01:56:57.230
people who are understanding Gnostr, people who are building it. It's craziest ideas can be found there.

1490
01:56:58.490 --> 01:56:59.390
Final thoughts?

1491
01:57:00.410 --> 01:57:01.705
Let's go build stuff.

1492
01:57:02.185 --> 01:57:03.405
Build crazy ideas.

1493
01:57:04.905 --> 01:57:06.525
Build like, there's so much

1494
01:57:07.225 --> 01:57:08.365
new apps.

1495
01:57:08.985 --> 01:57:10.445
There's so many new weird

1496
01:57:10.920 --> 01:57:12.699
solutions that Gnostr enables

1497
01:57:13.239 --> 01:57:13.980
with just

1498
01:57:15.000 --> 01:57:23.475
backs backing stuff up, managing events, or anything. I just build stuff. The more stuff we try, the more the more we'll know what actually works.

1499
01:57:25.054 --> 01:57:27.790
Fuck you. Thank you for building stuff, guys.

1500
01:57:28.830 --> 01:57:30.450
I appreciate both of you.

1501
01:57:31.230 --> 01:57:33.810
You guys are fucking crushing it. Keep pushing forward.

1502
01:57:34.830 --> 01:57:38.695
And, hopefully, I mean, hopefully, I'll meet both of you guys in person sometime soon.

1503
01:57:39.475 --> 01:57:46.909
If not, Enrique, somewhere else. And, if there's anything you need personally, don't hesitate to reach out. You have me both on signal now.

1504
01:57:48.170 --> 01:57:49.869
It's my favorite way of communicating.

1505
01:57:52.489 --> 01:57:56.155
And, yeah, thank you. Amazing. Great talking to you guys.

1506
01:57:56.535 --> 01:57:58.235
Peace. Thank you. Peace.

1507
01:58:21.540 --> 01:58:24.920
Mister Reebram has suffered a massive and irreparable damage.

1508
01:58:26.565 --> 01:58:28.264
You never know what has happened to him.

1509
01:58:29.605 --> 01:58:33.390
If I'm not for sure of this, I would not have committed him to live.

1510
01:58:40.685 --> 01:58:43.344
What is democracy? What is democracy?

1511
01:58:43.965 --> 01:58:48.705
That's something to do with young men killing each other up. And when it comes, Mike,

1512
01:58:51.700 --> 01:58:52.440
For democracy,

1513
01:58:53.380 --> 01:58:55.960
any man would give his only begotten son.

1514
01:59:16.065 --> 01:59:18.165
It is impossible for a decelerated

1515
01:59:18.545 --> 01:59:20.725
individual to experience pain,

1516
01:59:21.265 --> 01:59:22.485
pleasure, memory,

1517
01:59:22.865 --> 01:59:27.850
dream, or dreams, or thought of any kind. This young man will be as undefeated,

1518
01:59:28.550 --> 01:59:31.865
as anything as the day until the day he joins

1519
01:59:32.405 --> 01:59:32.905
me.

1520
01:59:33.525 --> 01:59:36.745
I don't know whether I'm alive and breathing or dead in remembering.

1521
01:59:37.045 --> 01:59:39.305
How can you tell what's a dream and what's real when you can't even tell when you're awake and when you're asleep?

1522
02:01:04.500 --> 02:01:05.000
Wish.

1523
02:02:37.510 --> 02:02:38.010
Father.

1524
02:02:39.430 --> 02:02:42.170
I need help. I need trouble trouble, and I need help.

1525
02:02:43.335 --> 02:02:45.034
Don't you remember when you were little?

1526
02:02:45.895 --> 02:02:47.415
How you and Bill Harper would,

1527
02:02:48.215 --> 02:02:52.750
bring a wire between the two houses so you could telegraph to each other. You'll remember

1528
02:02:54.650 --> 02:02:55.150
the

1529
02:02:56.170 --> 02:02:56.670
most

1530
02:03:05.795 --> 02:03:07.015
It's Morris Cove.

1531
02:03:08.115 --> 02:03:08.855
For what?

1532
02:03:28.360 --> 02:03:29.923
And over again.

1533
02:03:30.486 --> 02:03:36.303
Don't you have some message for a doctor? He is a

1534
02:04:28.340 --> 02:04:30.360
Please stay in touch with that by itself.

1535
02:04:32.099 --> 02:04:32.599
Hello?

1536
02:04:33.495 --> 02:04:34.555
Goodbye, father.

1537
02:04:42.110 --> 02:04:50.515
Inside me, I just screamed. Nobody pays any attention. I had arms. I could kill myself. I had legs. I could run away. I have voice.

1538
02:04:51.055 --> 02:04:59.155
I could talk and be some kind of company for myself. Why don't they get it over with it? Kill me. I could yell for help, but nobody helped me. I just

1539
02:05:45.035 --> 02:05:49.455
Love you, freaks. If you've been living under a rock, that was won by Metallica.

1540
02:05:51.100 --> 02:05:54.480
It just felt right. It just felt right. What a great rip.

1541
02:05:55.580 --> 02:05:56.380
We have,

1542
02:05:56.780 --> 02:05:58.140
Will from Domus,

1543
02:05:59.535 --> 02:06:01.555
coming on next week, Tuesday,

1544
02:06:02.095 --> 02:06:02.595
1717

1545
02:06:03.615 --> 02:06:04.515
100 UTC.

1546
02:06:06.415 --> 02:06:12.150
It's gonna be a great rep. Definitely join us. I'm working on other rips. I appreciate you all.

1547
02:06:12.770 --> 02:06:13.990
I love you all.

1548
02:06:14.747 --> 02:06:15.727
We must win.

1549
02:06:17.307 --> 02:06:19.647
Thank you. Stay humble, Stack Sats.