CD128: USING BITCOIN TO MAKE ELECTIONS MORE SECURE WITH CARLOS TORIELLO

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Created: 4/29/2024 7:27:42 PM
Duration: 5034.454
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Assess the economy,

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through the economic indicators and data that we all report on. Constantly, they assess it through how they feel about it. 34%

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currently

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approve

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of Biden's handling of the economy, so significantly lower than his overall job approval, 66%

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disapprove. And when you ask, how is the economy going today? What's your rating of it? 30%

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30% of Americans say it's good. 70%

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of Americans

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say it's poor. I just wanna note here that

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the economy is overwhelmingly

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the most important issue, for voters. This is not insignificant. And so, while there are a ton of other issues that we discussed and even issues that the president performs worse on, the Israel,

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Hamas war, immigration,

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the economy is still front and center for people. So this is something you're gonna hear Biden talk about day in and day out to try to boost those numbers up as well.

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Happy Bitcoin Monday, freaks. Almost forgot which day of the week it was. It's your host, Odell, here for another Citadel Dispatch, the interactive

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live

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show focused on actionable Bitcoin and Freedom

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Tech discussion.

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I have a good friend here to join us, here live from the studios at Bitcoin Park in Nashville. I always love the live rips.

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Carlos Toriello.

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We're gonna be talking about securing

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elections

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with Bitcoin.

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How's it going, Carlos?

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I don't know what that means, but I appreciate it.

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Great to be here. I really love what you're doing with the park, and, I'm just, happy

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to be a small cog in the wheel.

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Park's pretty cool. It's awesome. If you haven't got to check it out, you should.

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Let's fucking go.

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So, I mean, this is a this is a bit of a change of pace, from my usual conversation,

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or my usual conversations here on dispatch.

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But we've been talking for a long time about what you're doing, and it's it's it's a concept that I have found fascinating,

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for years.

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I remember

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I remember when I was a naive

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early Bitcoiner,

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like, a decade ago. I was like, blockchain's gonna solve

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elections,

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and I was so fucking wrong. There are so many issues with doing blockchain based voting. That is not what we're talking about here, which is why I'm so excited about it. But it's, all those different caveats that exist and trade offs that exist, I I've gone down that rabbit hole myself.

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And so when you came to me and and and explained what your new project was,

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I was really fascinated by it. So,

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I guess let's start with

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the the work you've done, how you look at it. Like, what what are we talking about here? Sure.

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So,

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the work is called Digital Witness in English,

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but it started out in Spanish called

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and the reason it's called

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Digital Witness is because fiscal digital is not what we're talking about.

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And what it is is,

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digital witness is my proposal to audit

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elections.

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And I think that by doing so and and looking back on it, what I've think I've proven

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with Guatemala last year

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is that,

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whatever your feelings about democracy,

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I will not tell you,

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to believe in it. I have my own conflicting thoughts about it. It would be its own rip.

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But my my thoughts as a Bitcoiner is

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the elections and and voting is

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inherently a a consensus algorithm

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that eventually leads to some decision

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reached by a bunch of people.

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And so I just see it as an opportunity

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to reach normies

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and precoiners

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with a very different message

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to Bitcoin

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around,

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truth

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and

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show them and give them a a a new touch point,

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and basically turn elections into a little machine that creates more Bitcoiners.

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I And also, I mean, it brings, like, the don't trust verify ethos to

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existing election processes.

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Well and, you know, it's recognizing that historically, don't trust verify was always a part of democracy.

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It's more of just, like, over time, that obviously gets eroded away. But,

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if you go back to any initial democracy, the first time you had elections, everyone was

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verifying instead of trusting. Right? Because if you don't trust verify,

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then you can actually believe what you're looking at as, instead of what we've kind of

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been pushed into, which is just, don't verify and trust. Right. And so

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I I believe that what I've proven in the case of Guatemala is that

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if we see democracies and specifically the

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voting around democracies

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as an opportunity

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to

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prove that Bitcoin is useful,

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then it provides touch points to people

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that,

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are different from the strictly sound money argument. And I love folks making the sound money argument. Right. I just think we're kind of reaching the edges of it.

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People will come from some money because fiat will inevitably destroy people's lives and they'll eventually find Bitcoin.

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But I do think there's a a truth argument

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to make with Bitcoin. And, I find it important to take that fight. You know, we we should use every opportunity we can to reach people with with this message. And, you know, one of the arguments I always make is that,

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we're living in a post truth world now. Like, people don't know what to believe,

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and Bitcoin is the exception to that rule. Right? And, and not just Bitcoin, but just

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signed messages in general. And that's one of the reasons I'm so excited about Noster.

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Just cryptographically

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verifiable signed messages

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is truth in a in a post truth world. But so, I mean, what we're talking about here is kinda cool because first of all, it's not theoretical.

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You've already done it in Guatemala.

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The second thing that I find cool here is

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you're not asking,

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millions of people to change their election processes.

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You're you're looking at the existing election processes, and you're saying, okay. How can we add,

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more reliability here? How can we add,

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more verifiability,

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have more truth to the to the existing system without actually really changing much

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in how people interact,

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with their,

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you know, their local voting schemes. So let's talk about what happened in Guatemala, how you how you implemented in Guatemala, what was the what were you trying to solve,

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and how'd you do it? Excellent. So,

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the backstory is

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Guatemala

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next door to El Salvador,

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Central American country. It's where I was born and raised. And

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we have a voting system that is

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manned by a citizen army of voluntary citizens.

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It is a beautiful

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experience that I had the opportunity to be a part of in 2,011

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and 2,015

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as a volunteer at the tables.

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What differentiates Guatemala to basically most voting systems is that it's an organic just,

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you know, you call your neighbor, you people just

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organically

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call each other

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and,

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find reliable people to join this citizen army. And so

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our 9,000,000 voters

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are assigned to voting tables based on their, you know, registered address

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and it turns into about 400 people per voting table.

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And when you show up, it's your neighbor that's, you know, welcoming you, gives your ballots, you

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take the paper and you get a crayon and you hand, you know, just whatever you choose to mark on the ballot. And then you deposit the ballot yourself into a, you know, plastic bag that allows

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anyone

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to see what's going on. And and there's witnesses

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present. There's just it's a massive amount of people that's mobilized.

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The last numbers in 2023 was over 200, maybe even 300,000

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people

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simultaneously

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doing the voting system at these 25,000

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tables Okay. Wow. Nationwide.

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4,200,000

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people actually bothered to show up to vote. How much was the population? 18,000,000 give or take. Good. Bunch of migrants in the states and so we kinda stopped doing the census. So it's probably more, but You just gave up on the census? Yeah. The state just, you know, can't do it anymore. And so Fair enough. Well, there's a bunch of reasons why, but, yeah, no more census. And so we 10 years ago, just kinda reached 18, and that's where we're at.

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9,200,000

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registered voters, 4.2 actually bothered to show up to vote. Yeah. And over 200,000

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are at the voting tables. Right. They're volunteers. They're the volunteers. Running the election. Running the election and also by a sign sent by the political parties competing in the election. So that they can Verify what's keep each other honest. Exactly. And so when when you do the numbers, it's, like,

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over 5%

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of the voting, you know, population

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is running the voting system. Right. It's it's a large number of of the voting population.

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Right? And so

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at the table, when people cast their ballots,

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you were similar. And I was a part of that. Like, I I was that neighbor that you showed up to and, like, I gave you your thing and I, you know, convinced a bunch of my friends to do this with me. And it's this hard work that you have to do throughout the entire voting day. You're technically a mayor for a day so that if the cops show up and you committed a crime, the cops have to wait outside

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until you finish your your job. Right? Like Oh, wow. Okay. Like, you have jurisdiction as a mayor for a day, and your jurisdiction is your table. Right? No one can take you away from there until your work is done. Okay. And so as people are pouring in, you know, eventually, 6 PM rolls

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around, the center is is shut down and you take out the plastic bags from under the table, you dump it out. These are all paper ballots. Everything's paper. Everything is paper. Yeah. We carry out 5 elections simultaneously.

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So it's 5 ballots that people cast

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on the 1st election day, then there's a runoff. But, you know, the first time you do this, it's

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5 bags that are that are under the table. Everyone's around, and everyone can see this happening. And at the end, you dump the bag out and you literally just go 1 by 1 in front of in front of the witnesses Right. Saying, alright. You know, blue party,

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red party,

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green party,

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yellow party, and you just You literally count them by hand. Literally count them by hand in front of people, making it that that moment, that,

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space in that table

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turns into the only place where you can challenge individual ballots. Right. And once that tally is reached,

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you handwrite those totals

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on a document

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that is your proof of work. Right. Right? And so

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that document that summarizes the totals at the table is actually the legal document of the election system. Then you calculate national

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results from all of those individual documents. So we we turn the, you know,

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9,000,000 votes into

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25,000

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documents Okay. Containing those 9,000,000 votes. Right. And, you know, while I was doing this in 2,011 and 15 and eventually came back in 2019 as a witness,

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I realized what this is what this is is is a physical, you know, paper,

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proof of work consensus algorithm. Right. Right. Like, I I I now see the volunteers, the people that receive the ballots and and do the work as kind of mining nodes in this network.

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And then the political party witnesses are validating nodes. They can't touch any of the votes, but if they see anything

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wrong,

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they can issue, you know, challenges. And

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that process leads to this very, you know, what I consider

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an an an an, a system that has integrity. Right? Because it's Up until that point. Up until that point, you have everything that you need to make sure that there was no funny

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stuff as long as people participated. Right? They're Well, you have, like, the good old fashioned,

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like, game theory of

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a a bunch of people there that disagree on things, and they're all keeping each other on it. Exactly. Right. Right? And so as long as parties the political parties bother to send people Right. Then there should be people keeping each other honest. Now if there are places where people literally don't care about the results anymore, then

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democracy does die in darkness. So this is the key. Right? It's like you're not trying to solve that problem. You're not trying to solve everything. Okay? So we're at this point, we have these 25,000 documents.

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And so then what happens is they get scanned

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Okay. By some scanner

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posted on the Internet,

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and the election authorities invite folks to say, see, we are transparent.

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Everything's Right. Published on the Internet.

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Anyone can just download these documents

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and verify for themselves

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that the totals

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match the individual

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25,000

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Exactly. Tables. Per election. Right. And so we've got 5 of these. And so, you know, I fell in love with this process. It's very magical. And I was, you know, like you said, like, a naive, you know, person back back in the day saying, like, wow, democracy is so beautiful.

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Then what happened was in 2019,

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my dad and a cousin of mine ran for congress and asked for my help. And so I evolved from being a volunteer at the table to being a political party witness. Okay. And, in 2019,

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I was plugged into the system seeing what they were doing in real time.

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And

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that election, we were supposed to have a 100,000 documents come in.

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And

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I'm plugged into the to the, you know, FTP server that they're using.

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And instead of going from 0 to a 100000,

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what I witness is 0 to 10000 down to 5, up to 25, down to 10, up to 50 down to 20,000. Wow. The actual JPEG files that, you know Right. Are being produced by these tables. And then up to a 101,000,

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which is what they were supposed to be and then down to 0 and the the website crashes publicly and, you know, for the first time in 40 years in in 2019 in Guatemala, there were serious,

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election fraud accusations,

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not just by, you know, the fringe candidates that lost, but all actually by all of the candidates around the spectrum.

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And so,

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yes.

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I was just pointing that we got a zap. Woo hoo. Thank you, sir. It's pretty cool seeing it coming live. Right? So yeah. The biggest problem with elections is the move away from in person voting politicians. Yeah. We're gonna talk about all these freaks, by the way. The reason Carlos is here in America talking on this show, which is awesome because it's a global show. We have an audience around the world, is because he wants to,

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hopefully, bring this to the US. So we're gonna talk all about,

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the different implications

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of of the US election process. But first, let's let's get through what he's done in Guatemala, how, like, what his process is there, and then we'll get to all your questions. Appreciate it.

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So I saw in real time in 2019, the election system crashing

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and getting rebooted and and just

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it it was like standing under, you know, the Niagara Falls with a water cup trying to, you know, get something. It's like it was it was a deluge of nonsense

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and lies that followed in the next couple of days. And so, I realized it's a massive OCR problem, and we could solve it. And so I built So when he says,

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OCR, that's optical character recognition. Yes. And and, specifically, what he means is these are handwritten

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documents,

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so they're not digital native documents.

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And then they're scanned into a picture file,

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and so so computers can't necessarily

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recognize what those numbers are. So it makes tallying those 25 not 1,000

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documents,

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quite difficult and time consuming.

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So you need to be able to, first of all, translate that handwriting

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into actual

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digital files that you can work with and tally them up. And then second of all I mean, I guess this is where we're going as well is you have to maintain the integrity of those documents

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so that you know those JPEGs haven't been altered in the first place.

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And and both of those were were incredibly lacking

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before your project came around. Exactly. So in 2019, I'm attempting to do this. I published open source quote that I get you know, become a little viral, and so we've got a bunch of people helping us do this. To audit the election. Exactly. Auditing Through their process. Digital Witness doesn't exist yet. You're trying to make it happen. Well, we we created it. We we called it Digital Witness in in Spanish, and and we just called into the Internet, just open it up as a crowdsourced,

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program, and over 1500 people are logging in to to help us do this. So literally like look at a JPEG be like 14 votes, 15 votes, like writing it down, typing it up. Exactly. Typing everything up, just doing, you know,

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pouring through hundreds of thousands of documents

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to see whether or not what they're saying is true or not.

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And yeah. So what I realized is,

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you know, a buddy of mine is a lawyer and he said, well, so if if you end up publishing,

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you know, contradicting results,

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the letter of the law says that this is treason.

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Nice.

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So it's like, well

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but on the other hand, what the authorities were saying is, oh, we're gonna look at documents, like, one one at a time with everyone there. It's like you're you're running the numbers of what the authorities are proposing, and it's like, it's gonna take them 48 months if they work 247.

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By design. And so it's like that that that this is this is a shit show.

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The other interesting, you know, side note there is

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it's as an OCR problem. The I would argue the the most famous

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OCR technology in the world is CAPTCHA.

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Right. CAPTCHA was invented by a Guatemalan.

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Oh, nice. I didn't know that. Yeah. The guy's name is Luis Von Ahn. One One of the things I love about small countries, by the way, is you guys know all the random facts about who

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who who you had invent certain things.

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The reason Luis Vonan is you know, the after inventing CAPTCHA and selling it to Google Yeah. He started a little company called Duolingo

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Oh, I've heard of that one. Which, you know, some people may may know about. 2nd fact about Guatemala. And so Luis Vonan is the most famous tech entrepreneur that Guatemala has ever produced. He still own Duolingo, or can he sell that too? It's a public company now? Oh, shit. Really? Yeah. He Good for him. Yeah. He went public right around the time this whole shit happened. So, actually, originally, before building the tools, with my team as open source, I reached out to him.

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And he was like, dude, I'm too busy, like, like, taking my my company public, but good on you. I'm one of the top, like, learn how to speak other language apps in the world. I I can't I can't help you. So but but at least he get he provided feedback saying you're you're onto something. Right?

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But base the reason I bring that up is it seemed to me, like, just the extreme irony of seeing the Guatemalan,

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Democratic Republic

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fall

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because we didn't know how to use CAPTCHA.

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It just like, it was too much for me to bear. Wait. So let's just explain real quick.

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Probably most of what is CAPTCHA?

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CAPTCHA, I forget what the, you know, letters stand for. It's not It's an acronym.

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Yeah. It's it's

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it's a funky acronym. Doesn't matter. What is CAPTCHA? CAPTCHA is what,

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Google and other machines,

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use to

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give you some kind of work

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to prove that you're human. It's an annoying thing when you're on a VPN and it says, are you human? Like, click the bicycles or type out what this word is. Now what Google is doing is using CAPTCHA to you know, it's actually called Image recognition. ReCAPTCHA. So they they it started out as CAPTCHA. Now it's called reCAPTCHA.

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And what they're doing is you're every time you do work for them to prove you're human, you're training the AI so that it They're killing 2 birds with 1 stone. They're supposed to stop spam for the,

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like, potential DDoS spam for the website host, but at the same time, you're training the robots.

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And it's this horrible virtual

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this is horrible

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feedback loop where as you train the robots to be better, they have to get more and more annoying

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about the challenges they give us because the robots can solve it because we fucking train them.

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So but the cool thing is the output is but, like, if you do this, you can actually make the output useful. And so I remember when CAPTCHA was first introduced

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is, you actually saw 2 words.

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And so the original CAPTCHA

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was used

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to digitize

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all books.

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Right? So, you know, the

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all the books were scanned and you had these, you know, JPEG files with Right. You know

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words. And what we did initially was turn those words

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into digital

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data that then Google could, you know,

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use its search function. To parse. Yeah. That's why CAPTCHA was purchased by Google. And so we turned all this JPEG information into, you know, useful digital data. So I was just like, how is Guatemala gonna fail as a democratic republic because we can't learn how to use our own fucking technology? I'm sorry. I I don't know if I You're good. No. We curse on the show. Right up. So I was, for

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a while. A couple episodes, I tried not to. These people were like, I listen with the kids in the car, and I just, up. So, you know, my grandmother asked me how, like, how do you not get kicked off the radio with with language like that? I was like,

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oh,

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you sweet summer child.

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They're that thing. It's it's a podcast. There's Internet. No one cares anymore. Yeah. And so, anyway,

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basically,

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it's an OCR problem.

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Right. I was frustrated that we didn't do it, so I just built an open source tool that did it.

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But, I failed miserably in 2019

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for many reasons. And so I was extremely frustrated.

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And then finally,

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I was like, alright. I'm just gonna wait. I'm gonna lower my time preference. I'm going to, you know,

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pray at the altar of satoshi every day

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and just

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lie in wait. And so

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I couldn't stop what madness happened in 2019. I still believe that they were probably stolen. But the thing about when you think that you got stolen in case of elections is

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the

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responsibility is on you. You have to prove

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what you're saying. Right? And if you make

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sweeping judgments without proof, then you're gonna get labeled as an election denier.

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And, you know, eventually if you you might even get thrown to jail. Right? So,

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I had to think from an, you know, the worst case scenario. And so,

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basically, we

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actually, that's when I met you, in the Human Rights Foundation event in Miami. I I went there with a specific goal of figuring out, like, there's gotta be more tools in Bitcoin that can help me do this. And, I met the folks from Stackwork,

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at the Human Rights Foundation. I realized there's this tool that is basically kind of like this awesome. Their whole team's awesome. Stack work is is amazing. And and you can build these workflows that allow people to just over their phones do work, which is what I was doing. But in this case, you can turn that work into Satoshis. And so So you literally just pay them sets to type the numbers

301
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from the JPEG. And so all you need to do is get the JPEGs.

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In our case, they're published to the Internet. Right. And that's where we can, you know You want me to pull it up? Yeah, please. While we have this,

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so

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we are gonna be showing some things on screen, so I will be moving away from the live chat just momentarily. But,

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we will come back to the live chat, so keep and we're watching the live chat. Also, Frieks, I know some of you have been zapping.

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I just checked my note. I have been receiving the zaps, so don't worry. The sats are not going,

307
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to the, you know,

308
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the the zaps are arriving at their destination.

309
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This is one of those constant trade offs that we think about,

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with Bitcoin

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where,

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of course, if I use my own node, sometimes the zaps don't show up on the stream.

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Are we are we pulling up Stackwork, or are we just pulling up the other side? The other side. Yeah.

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But,

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I've I've I just switched my,

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my my lightning address to,

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the primal custodial wallet, which once again is, like, now using a custodial wallet, but at least your zaps will show up, and I'll send them to self custody afterwards.

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But thank you thank you for supporting the show. Okay. Carlos, we're on,

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this is the government website of Guatemala. Right? This is the elections authority website of Guatemala. You can click on the box that said

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that one. So this

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is how the JPEGs are produced in Guatemala.

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There's this you know, some folks might recognize this. It's there's a map and there's, you know, tables. I mean, I understand there's problems with that you're solving, but I have to say, like,

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it's pretty cool that they have a website Yep. And this stuff.

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I think there are some in like, there's a tradition of publishing this in general democracy. I don't know if you have this in the United

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States. I believe there there are similar ones. I I have yet to see I think it's just like CNN and shit with their, like, dumbass graphics. Well, election authorities like, some someone should have this. But, it's still, like, just cool database, bro. Like, how do you trust this? Yeah. But it also it's like, yeah, it's

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it's like it's they're able to say, like, look how transparent we are, but there's actually no verification whatsoever. It's just literally just numbers on the website. Well, they're used to well, I don't know. So let's continue. So what what do you want me to do here? So there's a little text box that you can write any number between 125,000.

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42. And so instead of looking at national numbers, what this allows is for us to drill down into one of those 25,000. We're on table 42. Right. And so if you go down, there's, like, cool database pro, but there is a

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button, that says,

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ver and which is This is look There you go. Or verify.

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And,

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it actually pulls up the document that emanated from table number 42 in the presentation. This is the actual handwritten document. This is the handwritten JPEG. And so I can just build a little web crawler

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and just rip these off off of the website as soon as they're being published.

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The back end. But anyone can do this. Actually, there's a bunch of people do just like download this and then go on Twitter since the JPEG. Yep.

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And so the problem was what in 2019, what was happening is these were changing.

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It's

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like they were changing.

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I couldn't,

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you know, check

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exactly how they were changing, but they were changing.

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So,

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we built a system to, know, we use the we discovered the open timestamps protocol Okay. Which, a little side note there for folks. I don't know if what your recollection is of how this

342
00:28:22.665 --> 00:28:32.690
protocol was built, Matt. I'm curious that that, you know, your history of of, open time stamps. But it's essentially developed by Peter Todd and allows

343
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us to use Bitcoin. It's it's it's I would I call it a compromise between, you know, the money maximalist

344
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and the data storage people that wanna put all the data in the in the blockchain. Open timestamps is kind of the compromise because it's the minimalist version of using Bitcoin. So you essentially, what open timestamps does is

345
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is you take a hash of a file. So every file

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has a unique hash.

347
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You just simply run it through shot 256. It gives you

348
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this long string

349
00:29:02.890 --> 00:29:08.190
of characters. Right? And that that is unique. If that file gets changed at all, it's a different hash.

350
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So it proves that a file has not been changed. If you listened to,

351
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the recent dispatch,

352
00:29:17.085 --> 00:29:20.705
with Stewart and Hazard about Blossom on Nostr,

353
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It's a similar concept. You use the hash to prove that a file has not been changed, and it's very easy to verify.

354
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And then Open Timestamps takes it a step further.

355
00:29:31.105 --> 00:29:34.245
And they take that hash, and they put that hash in the Bitcoin blockchain.

356
00:29:34.785 --> 00:29:42.049
So you can tell that this hash existed at this time. So it gives you 2 key points of verification, that the the file

357
00:29:42.830 --> 00:29:48.515
when the hash was taken and that it the file hasn't changed since that point in time. Right? Which is,

358
00:29:48.975 --> 00:29:53.955
dramatic for election auditing. Right. Because, like I said, if my audit

359
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produced contradictory

360
00:29:55.610 --> 00:29:56.110
results,

361
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I could be thrown in jail. Right. So I would have to prove that yourself that you didn't change that JPEG. That the audit that I did was based on official documents. If the official documents There was no way for you to prove that before this existed. Exactly. And so,

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then,

363
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this other group that was inspired by,

364
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what I did in 2019,

365
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created a startup called Simple Proof and sold the election authority

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on adding a very, you know, conspicuously

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orange button

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to this page that says verify hash.

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You literally got them to open timestamps to hash. Open

370
00:30:34.790 --> 00:30:46.345
timestamps to JPEG. Exactly. All of them. Every JPEG. All 25,000 JPEG. Everything that they gave us access to, which was these JPEGs, we tried to get access to a little bit more. But so what happens is,

371
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when you click on that, it'll take you to

372
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the

373
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an additional contractor that is doing this via open time stamps who's showing you here's the shot 256 of that individual document. Here's the time stamp of when they got it, plus the time stamp of

374
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when Bitcoin

375
00:31:06.190 --> 00:31:07.730
registered that transaction.

376
00:31:08.350 --> 00:31:18.575
So you can also see, like, how Wait. Wait. We're on a new tab, so I'm not sharing this tab anymore. Wait. Let me Share this tab instead. So the freaks don't see what we're looking at.

377
00:31:19.275 --> 00:31:27.540
I think you can just click the share. Right. No. I'm just instead of switching tabs, I'm just gonna put it in this tab. Here we go. Yeah. So you see the SHA 256 hash.

378
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You see the block that it happened and the time that it happened. But additional, on on at the top, it's the timestamp of when it came into the private database of simple proof. And so you can use both of these time stamps

379
00:31:40.050 --> 00:31:40.710
to determine

380
00:31:41.010 --> 00:31:46.310
how long did these documents take before they were put on Bitcoin. Because that's the that's the scary

381
00:31:46.725 --> 00:31:49.625
point in time. Right? That If they've left the table,

382
00:31:50.085 --> 00:32:13.695
and they're getting they're getting Scanned. They're getting verified, and they're getting, Scanned. Yeah, scanned and put into the blockchain. How long The document themselves not getting put in the blockchain. The hash is getting put in the blockchain. Mhmm. The hash is putting into the into the blockchain, but the point is you what you do wanna try to determine is how long did that take. Right? Right. Because if it takes a reasonable amount of time,

383
00:32:14.050 --> 00:32:17.030
say for example, a wrap, you know, less than 60 minutes

384
00:32:17.410 --> 00:32:22.630
and usually the average should be, you know, around 10 because that's how long the blocks work.

385
00:32:23.174 --> 00:32:25.655
Then you can immediately determine the,

386
00:32:26.135 --> 00:32:37.100
a kind of health indicator of the entire election. Right. Because if you have a document that took 6 hours more, then you're like, what well, what happened there? You know, there needs to be an explanation. And so,

387
00:32:37.720 --> 00:32:41.820
all of this is made public. You get an additional database that you can

388
00:32:43.875 --> 00:32:51.190
documents against. But if you go further down Scroll. You know, scroll down Scroll. Scroll. Scroll. You click on where it says.

389
00:32:53.090 --> 00:32:56.789
Okay. We're we're we're verifying the Merkle tree. And so

390
00:32:57.505 --> 00:33:05.924
we you know, you can download the OTS file, which has all the Thank you. Yeah. All the gnarly, you know, cryptographic proofs, but we then

391
00:33:07.570 --> 00:33:23.735
they built this where if you go all the way to the bottom of that Merkle, you know, tree, you can see the root hash. You click on the on the one on the left because it's sort of highlighted. So to say, you see that hash? That's actually the same hash that we were looking at earlier. Right? F 42e1.

392
00:33:24.195 --> 00:33:25.015
Let's see.

393
00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:26.340
F 42eone.

394
00:33:26.800 --> 00:33:30.020
There you go. There you go. And so it's showing you

395
00:33:31.200 --> 00:33:32.475
where that hash is

396
00:33:32.875 --> 00:33:42.960
and then showing you how the Merkle tree, you know, hashing that open Well, to be clear, the reason open timestamps uses Merkle trees is because they wanna reduce the impact,

397
00:33:43.500 --> 00:33:47.500
both the fee rate that is paid by the the person that's trying to,

398
00:33:48.515 --> 00:33:58.040
put the hash and and create the open time stamp, but also, like, decrease the burden on on the blockchain itself. The whole idea is, like, how can we have verifiable data

399
00:33:58.420 --> 00:34:02.360
without bloating the blockchain? So, like, I know, like, it's a hot topic right now,

400
00:34:03.785 --> 00:34:05.405
like, storing data on Bitcoin.

401
00:34:06.105 --> 00:34:11.485
This is done in the most efficient way possible, and you're not actually install you're not actually storing

402
00:34:12.190 --> 00:34:16.930
the data itself on the blockchain. You're you're storing, like, the verifiability of it the verifiability

403
00:34:17.230 --> 00:34:18.530
of it. And it's

404
00:34:19.070 --> 00:34:21.170
all of the data. So let's pretend like

405
00:34:21.535 --> 00:34:24.675
on on election night in Guatemala, we had a 125,000

406
00:34:25.455 --> 00:34:26.435
documents created.

407
00:34:26.735 --> 00:34:36.740
So maybe there was one moment in a 10 minute interval where there were 10,000 documents. Yep. All of those 10,000 documents are reduced to a single hash on a single transaction.

408
00:34:37.600 --> 00:34:38.340
And so,

409
00:34:39.105 --> 00:34:43.925
instead of, you know, bloating the blockchain, it's just a single transaction per per block,

410
00:34:44.945 --> 00:34:48.680
that could contain 100 of thousands of of documents. But

411
00:34:48.980 --> 00:34:50.280
doing that eliminates

412
00:34:50.820 --> 00:34:51.320
99%

413
00:34:52.020 --> 00:34:57.495
of the attack surface that election. Beautiful about it. It's, like, you're not trying to solve everything.

414
00:34:57.955 --> 00:35:01.015
It's just like, okay. Like, up until the point where the tables

415
00:35:01.750 --> 00:35:02.250
create

416
00:35:02.790 --> 00:35:03.609
the 25,000

417
00:35:03.990 --> 00:35:04.490
different,

418
00:35:05.190 --> 00:35:07.210
districts are, like, creating their tabulations

419
00:35:07.910 --> 00:35:10.089
to the point where it's posted online,

420
00:35:11.075 --> 00:35:15.015
and even after the point is posted online, that that up until the tables

421
00:35:15.635 --> 00:35:21.710
and it's first uploaded is pretty pretty good. Yep. It's pretty good in the current state. Let's just

422
00:35:22.010 --> 00:35:23.610
make it that state permanently

423
00:35:24.010 --> 00:35:28.795
Exactly. Rather than allow it to be altered after that point. So you're not not trying to solve everything.

424
00:35:29.095 --> 00:35:30.475
It's just, like, very actionable.

425
00:35:31.255 --> 00:35:41.099
It's it's it's something that can be solved relatively easily and cleanly. Cheaply. Yeah. And so a a few few things there is it's the the gold standard of elections

426
00:35:41.960 --> 00:35:45.765
by any self respecting computer scientist Yeah. Is paper.

427
00:35:46.145 --> 00:35:53.045
A 100 we're gonna we're gonna talk about this when we get to the US, but yes. And so but Paper's amazing. The problem is when

428
00:35:53.560 --> 00:35:57.500
those results and whatever mechanism you have from jumping from paper,

429
00:35:57.880 --> 00:35:59.820
computing the result and publishing

430
00:36:00.280 --> 00:36:07.715
all up and then also the verification of that. And publishing to the Internet. Right? So it's the our our whole point here is if

431
00:36:08.015 --> 00:36:09.555
that process from going

432
00:36:10.015 --> 00:36:12.755
from the analog which is secure to digital,

433
00:36:13.119 --> 00:36:18.980
You go through the filter that is Bitcoin. Right. Then on the other side, it'll be

434
00:36:20.215 --> 00:36:20.715
insignificantly

435
00:36:21.175 --> 00:36:21.675
cheap

436
00:36:22.215 --> 00:36:22.955
to verify

437
00:36:23.255 --> 00:36:40.855
and distinguish real information. Right. Have independent parties be able to audit it. In a trustless way. You still need an independent party to be able to audit it. And so it's In this case, I would say trust minimized, but yes. Yeah. Trust minimized in in that but so that because time stamping isn't new. What's new is if you actually use Bitcoin,

438
00:36:41.235 --> 00:36:41.735
then

439
00:36:42.115 --> 00:37:07.140
the authorities are saying, yes. You can use access to our database, and people have had access to it. Bug with the timestamp, you would have to you would have to reorg the Bitcoin blockchain, which is incredibly to do. And it's all open source protocol. You can't use a shitcoin for it because the shitcoins are all centralized. So Exactly. You could just reorg I mean, maybe not the Guatemalan government, but if you were going for bigger governments, they could just reorg stuff. And so what you're doing is eliminating

440
00:37:07.599 --> 00:37:08.819
the election tampering

441
00:37:09.155 --> 00:37:10.535
on a attack surface

442
00:37:10.995 --> 00:37:14.375
to a single moment in time, which is the beginning.

443
00:37:15.235 --> 00:37:16.535
Literally, as it's happening.

444
00:37:17.210 --> 00:37:24.029
What that means for anyone trying to mess with elections is that they're gonna have to take significant risks

445
00:37:24.885 --> 00:37:31.610
that if if they have to jam all their, you know, fraud into once, you know, small moment on election night Good luck.

446
00:37:32.010 --> 00:37:53.765
You're probably gonna fuck up. Yeah. And when people have to do things quickly and they fuck up, that's when you catch them. Right. And so the best, you know, on the one hand, Bitcoiners have criticized maybe because it's like, oh, this is going to be expensive, etcetera. It's like, it's really not. It's just one transaction per block. And, like, the alternative is way more expensive. Exactly. Like, for a country's democracy, it's worth paying for this.

447
00:37:54.404 --> 00:37:59.305
And then the election deniers accuse me of whitewashing election fraud. Right.

448
00:37:59.684 --> 00:38:01.865
And to that, I I say,

449
00:38:02.670 --> 00:38:05.650
if they are They're doing the opposite. You can verify yourself.

450
00:38:05.950 --> 00:38:17.045
Well, let's let's pretend like someone was able to mess with the JPEGs before they were were scanned, and then they put them up here. All that that person has done is committed a crime

451
00:38:17.905 --> 00:38:19.845
in a tamper proof,

452
00:38:21.170 --> 00:38:21.670
you

453
00:38:22.049 --> 00:38:26.309
know, system that anyone can audit. So you now have criminals providing

454
00:38:26.770 --> 00:38:27.750
forensic evidence

455
00:38:28.210 --> 00:38:30.630
that you can actually use to create

456
00:38:30.945 --> 00:38:36.965
sound arguments based on cryptography and math Right. As opposed to political opinions about what happened to the election.

457
00:38:37.265 --> 00:38:38.405
And so this

458
00:38:38.705 --> 00:38:40.005
it only benefits

459
00:38:40.510 --> 00:38:46.130
people who want truth. Right. It makes it harder for those that want to create.

460
00:38:48.885 --> 00:38:57.810
And so, the way that, the folks in the election authority decided to to consume this was because they figured, well, AI has made it,

461
00:38:58.290 --> 00:39:03.430
ridiculously cheap to make fake documents like the these. And now they have a cheap way

462
00:39:03.810 --> 00:39:06.805
to cover their ass on one on the one side, but then obviously

463
00:39:07.105 --> 00:39:07.605
differentiate

464
00:39:07.905 --> 00:39:08.865
in the case that,

465
00:39:09.265 --> 00:39:12.005
elections are attacked with artificial intelligence

466
00:39:12.385 --> 00:39:13.685
in coordinated misinformation,

467
00:39:14.065 --> 00:39:15.110
disinformation attacks.

468
00:39:16.230 --> 00:39:20.010
And so yeah. I mean So this is this is how the,

469
00:39:21.910 --> 00:39:36.430
this is one piece of the puzzle. Right? So so now we know the JPEGs aren't being modified after the fact. So, like, the government in charge sees that they're losing the election, and they start altering JPEGs. Now they can't do that without it being obvious. Exactly.

470
00:39:37.130 --> 00:39:43.645
And but then the other piece is is the OCR piece. It's like, okay. So, like, how do we I now we have verifiable JPEGs,

471
00:39:45.065 --> 00:39:51.400
but how do we turn those JPEGs into something that you can put in an Excel spreadsheet and actually add up exactly. And so

472
00:39:51.940 --> 00:39:58.040
first thing is, like you said, I would call it an anchor of truth. Right? Right. Now we can actually hold on to reality

473
00:39:58.684 --> 00:40:07.585
and work on something that's not shifting. And this is where Stackwork comes in. Right? Exactly. And so, the folks at Stackwork were awesome and so we built this little tool.

474
00:40:08.570 --> 00:40:11.310
The way I did it was I had a website where,

475
00:40:11.850 --> 00:40:14.030
I basically marketed to young people

476
00:40:14.330 --> 00:40:15.870
and, election deniers

477
00:40:16.170 --> 00:40:28.450
and said, we don't trust the election either. The only way to trust is to verify. So join us, and all people needed to do was, you know, submit their phone number. I would send them an SMS message with a code

478
00:40:28.990 --> 00:40:47.020
and access to this, website. And so when they came in, it's a very obvious, you know, process. It's all intuitive. You just click start. And so it's it's it's a mobile native. So all you need to do is I don't I don't think you're showing it. I am showing it. I'm looking at it on my screen. Oh, great. So, you know, we just handhold people through,

479
00:40:47.560 --> 00:41:08.560
until Our task is to enter the handwritten value. Are we doing this right now? It's just click through, but the point is we Am I am I am I getting paid for this? Yeah. Yeah. So what am I I'm supposed to oh, they're, they're telling me the tutorial. So Oh, okay. We we assume the people were not gonna know how to do this, so you just need to click next. Well, I'm I'm learning.

480
00:41:08.940 --> 00:41:12.625
Okay. So I I have to press I have to do 22

481
00:41:13.005 --> 00:41:21.680
Avanza. No. O o two. Yep. Oh, this the number on the right is what I'm supposed to do. Exactly. So it's showing you if it's blank, you know, fill the number with 0.

482
00:41:22.220 --> 00:41:25.440
0. And so for folks that are just listening This is 021.

483
00:41:25.819 --> 00:41:33.945
Exactly. Because I need to do 3 digits no matter what. Exactly. We're looking at yeah. If you're just listening, we're looking at essentially the tutorial process that

484
00:41:35.660 --> 00:41:38.240
a a human robot who's, like, putting in

485
00:41:38.700 --> 00:41:43.360
the numbers. Okay. This would be as you can see, if you're watching the stream,

486
00:41:43.714 --> 00:41:46.694
this is how difficult this problem is to solve,

487
00:41:47.555 --> 00:41:53.540
which is why, like, AI is not doing it and why it's it's humans getting paid sats that are doing it. Well,

488
00:41:54.260 --> 00:42:01.240
it gets gnarly fast. Okay. So, like, are they asking me to enter this? No. No. No. No. This is still a tutorial. It's like, if you can't

489
00:42:01.805 --> 00:42:11.690
guess what the number is, just write hash, hash, hash. Okay. Because there's plenty of times when people make mistakes. Hash, hash, hash. Yeah. It's like if you can't really read it

490
00:42:12.069 --> 00:42:14.569
easily This is a pretty advanced tutorial.

491
00:42:14.869 --> 00:42:15.369
Yeah.

492
00:42:16.445 --> 00:42:20.545
Let me just I'm I'm zooming this. I think it's like there you go.

493
00:42:21.805 --> 00:42:26.190
Is this it's for a mobile screen. Is that the idea? For mobile. Yeah. Mobile native.

494
00:42:26.670 --> 00:42:27.410
And so,

495
00:42:28.030 --> 00:42:28.530
basically,

496
00:42:29.470 --> 00:42:31.650
they're just, like, telling me all the different scenarios.

497
00:42:31.950 --> 00:42:36.085
Yep. And so that you do need to zoom in a little bit because it's asking you for 168.

498
00:42:40.385 --> 00:42:44.165
Yep. No. That's a good zoom. This is a good enter the handwritten value.

499
00:42:45.010 --> 00:42:48.390
This is important. Like, we're doing this is this actually getting entered?

500
00:42:49.010 --> 00:42:55.125
006 is the right number. I don't know where you got that. 16 oh, they're asking me what is the total for that,

501
00:42:55.665 --> 00:42:59.860
6. Alright? Where are we actually we're we're verifying the election right now.

502
00:43:00.900 --> 00:43:01.380
Well,

503
00:43:01.780 --> 00:43:06.875
we already verified the election. Okay. So we're not. What what you're doing is going through our tutorial, which

504
00:43:07.595 --> 00:43:15.945
so I'm not actually What? Anybody. No. Well So 257. It's supposed to be 257. Exactly. Yeah. So we what we've done is I'm good at this. Gamified

505
00:43:16.640 --> 00:43:21.780
election audit. Plus 2 on the top. So Okay. Or 74. I got This is how you get

506
00:43:22.320 --> 00:43:23.060
young people

507
00:43:23.494 --> 00:43:25.755
to do really boring work.

508
00:43:26.135 --> 00:43:27.355
You gamify it,

509
00:43:27.734 --> 00:43:28.234
and

510
00:43:28.535 --> 00:43:30.714
you tell everyone, hey. Unidad

511
00:43:31.095 --> 00:43:32.635
Nacional de la Esperanza.

512
00:43:33.100 --> 00:43:34.560
Okay. I see it. 062.

513
00:43:34.860 --> 00:43:37.980
062. Sorry. You can keep talking. I'm I'm doing things. It's,

514
00:43:39.020 --> 00:43:39.840
the idea is

515
00:43:40.425 --> 00:43:45.485
there's a lot of people that care deeply about elections and especially young people who aren't allowed to vote.

516
00:43:46.105 --> 00:43:48.685
If we reach them with this, we can gamify

517
00:43:48.985 --> 00:43:50.520
all of that energy

518
00:43:50.980 --> 00:43:55.000
and expose people to their 1st Bitcoin lightning transaction.

519
00:43:55.460 --> 00:44:02.595
Because all you're saying is, hey, let's let's compete with your friends and see who can do more for democracy. Oh, try putting one that's wrong, by the way,

520
00:44:02.895 --> 00:44:06.755
because you should don't trust verify. Oh, yeah. That was gonna be my next okay.

521
00:44:07.550 --> 00:44:11.170
Because you're gonna run out. There you go. It's 6 exec the devil's vote. 666.

522
00:44:12.750 --> 00:44:13.250
Oh,

523
00:44:13.790 --> 00:44:20.724
they caught me. Oh, they took 4 sats for me? But you can dispute it if you think the devil was speaking to you in that one.

524
00:44:21.424 --> 00:44:22.244
And so

525
00:44:23.080 --> 00:44:27.740
it also you know, Stackwork is amazing in that they learn I'm disputing it. There you go.

526
00:44:31.535 --> 00:44:46.795
And so we could also learn from our users and adapt. Right? But it basically do you have, like are users doing double work so that There's a lot of things going on in the background. Make sure there's no trolls that are, like, coming in and ruining the process. So if you if you click the home screen up on the left. Okay.

527
00:44:47.195 --> 00:45:06.724
The reason you were able to do that, you've completed 7, you still have 3. Everyone gets 10 Okay. Because that's the test. 10 per day? We just no. We the the first time a user logs in, the first 10 jobs are control jobs. And so if Okay. So you already know the answers. We already know the answers to these. You need to maintain that It's a filter. You need to maintain an 80%,

528
00:45:07.345 --> 00:45:09.605
control I'm passing. So far.

529
00:45:10.100 --> 00:45:20.475
But we only did 80% because we didn't know how many people would sign up. If we wanna turn this up to 99%, like, there's a bunch of things that can be done. But then what happens if I fuck around after I get past this process?

530
00:45:21.095 --> 00:45:23.675
We'll eventually catch you because we'll randomly

531
00:45:24.055 --> 00:45:27.240
include. And so there's there's a bunch of really awesome,

532
00:45:27.780 --> 00:45:36.905
stuff. Am I pressing this? Yep. Press that, like, really obvious green button and then look at your paste invoice. Oh, that's wonderful. And so we never told anyone To get my stats.

533
00:45:37.345 --> 00:45:52.704
Anything. You know, when we ran this and and my suggestion is you ever if you wanna do this, you don't say anything about Bitcoin ever. I'm going back to the live chat. Because if if you're like doing Bitcoin in elections, like, this is gonna you're gonna draw out all sorts of wrong attention.

534
00:45:53.005 --> 00:46:00.545
And so Yeah. It's hard to Rob okay in the live chat. Not sure I trust Odell to validate elections the way this is going.

535
00:46:03.230 --> 00:46:03.730
Well,

536
00:46:04.110 --> 00:46:20.195
you don't need to trust them. You could just run this yourself. Right? And so, but the the last green button was just to just get paid. So if you wanna try to generate the invoice to see that whether or not we're we're true, but we never said anything about Bitcoin. And then our 1,000 Like a 10 sat invoice.

537
00:46:20.680 --> 00:46:21.960
I believe you. And so,

538
00:46:22.599 --> 00:46:23.900
basically, the idea is,

539
00:46:24.760 --> 00:46:27.660
gamify it. People get excited. They start competing

540
00:46:28.040 --> 00:46:42.260
and all of a sudden they start asking, what does this SAP mean? What does invoice mean? Right. And just randomly people figured it out on social media, on our on our channels. We we never said anything, and they just figured out how to create a lightning invoice. Get their money.

541
00:46:43.040 --> 00:46:44.420
And so Cool.

542
00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:52.795
Basically, now what we have is I forgot to tell you this this other website. But, if you go to digital witness dot I o, if if you can,

543
00:46:53.494 --> 00:46:54.795
we have a little

544
00:46:55.175 --> 00:46:58.750
arcade screen. So this is a game. This is, an arcade.

545
00:46:59.450 --> 00:47:01.710
And so not up yet. Digital

546
00:47:02.810 --> 00:47:03.310
Witness

547
00:47:04.215 --> 00:47:04.955
dot io.

548
00:47:06.375 --> 00:47:17.700
It'll redirect you, so it'll probably say. And now I gotta And so what we're using is every 4 years when Guatemala, if you click on on on the logo up button. They they can't see anything yet. I'm

549
00:47:18.240 --> 00:47:19.860
I'm I'm going to it.

550
00:47:21.575 --> 00:47:23.415
Someone else in the comments was like,

551
00:47:24.055 --> 00:47:28.315
these producers need to get fired. They know I'm the only producer here.

552
00:47:29.255 --> 00:47:29.755
Okay.

553
00:47:30.350 --> 00:47:30.850
So,

554
00:47:31.390 --> 00:47:32.270
if you go up,

555
00:47:32.990 --> 00:47:35.010
and then click on the logo up on the left.

556
00:47:35.950 --> 00:47:36.450
Okay.

557
00:47:37.125 --> 00:47:38.585
And so there's this arcade. So

558
00:47:39.285 --> 00:47:46.800
the whole thing is I've turned the election auditing and and here's my audit. So I did actually There's, like, someone who did OCR and got 383,000

559
00:47:47.340 --> 00:47:50.480
sets? Exactly. That's legit. That's money. That's money.

560
00:47:50.780 --> 00:47:52.780
And so Right now, Freaks, that's like,

561
00:47:53.435 --> 00:47:54.335
that's that's almost

562
00:47:55.195 --> 00:47:56.655
$240 for about $2.50.

563
00:47:57.435 --> 00:48:03.350
Yeah. Which is, like, 3 times the, like, you know. You get to feel good while you do it. Exactly. And so,

564
00:48:03.650 --> 00:48:08.165
I actually did do the audit, and it's this massive thing that goes It's got a huge bind in front of me

565
00:48:10.645 --> 00:48:19.090
right now. It's, it's just, you know, way too much work, you know, to to prove to the other users that I didn't actually, like, do this for just shits and giggles. But now, 4 years from now, when the next election happens in Guatemala,

566
00:48:19.390 --> 00:48:23.010
I will put this on a billboard somewhere so that people recall

567
00:48:23.525 --> 00:48:26.345
how much you got paid. So it's basically turning That $240

568
00:48:26.805 --> 00:48:28.905
is gonna be worth a lot more. That 383,000

569
00:48:29.445 --> 00:48:33.819
sats is gonna be worth a lot My my my idea is we can turn elections

570
00:48:34.200 --> 00:48:41.795
into the 10,000 beat, pizza moment. 1010,000 Bitcoin pizza moment. Shit, dude. For There's levels to this. Yes.

571
00:48:42.415 --> 00:48:44.515
And so from here on out,

572
00:48:45.055 --> 00:48:50.910
every time Guatemala has elections, they will be reminded about what the price of Bitcoin was in 2023.

573
00:48:52.570 --> 00:48:57.085
And so yeah, man. It's, I I think that democracy and elections

574
00:48:57.465 --> 00:48:59.725
can be an engine for more Bitcoiners.

575
00:49:00.505 --> 00:49:02.525
I dislike the idea that

576
00:49:02.825 --> 00:49:03.325
autocracies

577
00:49:03.625 --> 00:49:04.365
and dictatorships

578
00:49:04.910 --> 00:49:07.970
have a natural advantage to adopting Bitcoin. Right.

579
00:49:08.430 --> 00:49:09.330
And that democracies

580
00:49:09.710 --> 00:49:15.585
are just gonna, you know, get it late. I I don't think that we should we should, take that stance.

581
00:49:16.125 --> 00:49:21.025
And it's not because I'd like democracy. It's because I think democracy gives us this opportunity

582
00:49:21.580 --> 00:49:24.480
to create more Bitcoins faster than the dictatorships.

583
00:49:24.860 --> 00:49:25.360
Right.

584
00:49:27.500 --> 00:49:31.200
I mean, you think that? You think, like, the dictatorships adopt Bitcoin quicker?

585
00:49:31.925 --> 00:49:35.865
I don't know what you think, but I've I've seen this growing perception that,

586
00:49:36.325 --> 00:49:38.244
you know, if you live in Russia or,

587
00:49:38.725 --> 00:49:39.225
Ukraine,

588
00:49:39.720 --> 00:49:44.059
China, North Korea right now, Cuba, obviously, like, you need like,

589
00:49:44.680 --> 00:49:59.700
there's Oh, the people living under there adopt it quicker? Because there's just a much greater need, and, you know, necessity is the mother of invention. So Yeah. Like, if you're getting oppressed if you're getting oppressed, you're gonna look for freedom alternatives. And That's what it is. Like, if you're comfortable, like, you just you just

590
00:50:00.880 --> 00:50:06.734
you just sit tight. Exactly. It's not in your comfort. But I I that you touch the stove. I don't think that's true. I think democracies

591
00:50:07.194 --> 00:50:16.960
have this thing, this consensus that happens on that during every election, and it's increasingly a shit show. And it allows us to reach normies with a different message,

592
00:50:17.420 --> 00:50:23.115
and just get give them a a new touch point. Carlos, this is awesome. We're about 50 minutes in. Yep.

593
00:50:23.675 --> 00:50:24.795
By the way, Freaks,

594
00:50:25.355 --> 00:50:34.089
I know most of you listen on the podcast apps. Dispatch is obviously available on every podcast app. You just search solo dispatch. I mean, if you're listening to this, you probably already figured that out.

595
00:50:34.710 --> 00:50:36.490
Obviously, this one had more

596
00:50:36.869 --> 00:50:37.369
visual,

597
00:50:38.230 --> 00:50:39.290
cues to it.

598
00:50:39.995 --> 00:50:40.975
You can search dispatch

599
00:50:41.275 --> 00:50:44.255
on YouTube to see it there. I also post a full video,

600
00:50:44.795 --> 00:50:45.535
on Noster.

601
00:50:46.475 --> 00:50:47.615
And all those links,

602
00:50:47.970 --> 00:50:50.630
as always, every link you need is always at dispatch.com.

603
00:50:51.410 --> 00:50:55.330
So if you do wanna, like, go back and and watch the video I think the video probably adds a lot,

604
00:50:56.765 --> 00:50:58.785
for this rip. But, Carlos,

605
00:50:59.485 --> 00:51:04.225
I wanna talk about America now. Let's do it. We talked about Guatemala. You've done great work there.

606
00:51:05.350 --> 00:51:10.010
Little bit of a smaller problem to solve. I know it's a problem that's closer to home for you,

607
00:51:10.550 --> 00:51:12.550
but it's a it's a smaller problem to solve,

608
00:51:14.055 --> 00:51:15.355
just from sheer magnitude.

609
00:51:15.655 --> 00:51:18.795
Right? I mean, the population in the United States is, like, 350,000,000

610
00:51:19.335 --> 00:51:19.835
people.

611
00:51:22.069 --> 00:51:23.609
Digital Witness in America,

612
00:51:24.230 --> 00:51:28.890
what do you wanna see happen? I mean, the election the next election next presidential election

613
00:51:30.964 --> 00:51:31.625
is in,

614
00:51:32.805 --> 00:51:34.825
like, 8 months or something like that.

615
00:51:35.365 --> 00:51:39.859
Less than 8 months. And, like, 6 months, it's not gonna be used in this next month. Well,

616
00:51:40.560 --> 00:51:45.355
so I would I would say you're incorrect, Matt. Wow. He's just like, you should see the look he just gave me.

617
00:51:46.395 --> 00:51:54.015
So let's, just cover our bases here. There are 50 states in the federation that still is the United States of America.

618
00:51:54.910 --> 00:51:58.450
Each one of those 50 states has its own election law.

619
00:51:58.990 --> 00:52:04.075
And the beautiful thing about the election system in the United States is that it is decentralized.

620
00:52:06.055 --> 00:52:11.755
Inside of those 50 states, more often than not, there may be exceptions to this, but my understanding

621
00:52:13.180 --> 00:52:14.720
is the election authority

622
00:52:15.260 --> 00:52:15.760
responsible

623
00:52:16.060 --> 00:52:17.920
for implementing the election

624
00:52:18.380 --> 00:52:20.000
is the county clerk.

625
00:52:20.375 --> 00:52:24.395
Okay. And so I love having Guatemalan tell me how my election's wrong.

626
00:52:25.015 --> 00:52:44.675
And so I have no way I I don't know if you're right or not. I I believe you, Carla. I've been talking to a lot of people around I imagine you have been. The United States that have confirmed this and haven't found anyone to tell me where I'm wrong with And so So even with presidential elections, the county clerk is in charge of the county. Okay. Exactly. And so the That's cool. Your your local government

627
00:52:45.135 --> 00:52:54.730
is where you vote. That means that it it's and this is, you know, part of why I'm I'm drawing attention to the Guatemalan, you know, voting system is that's I think the ideal.

628
00:52:55.065 --> 00:52:59.805
Everyone should be lucky enough to live in a democracy that has a voting system like Guatemala.

629
00:53:00.265 --> 00:53:07.290
That is not the case. But of the 3,000 plus counties in the United States Right. You're on a gradient.

630
00:53:07.830 --> 00:53:08.650
Your county

631
00:53:09.190 --> 00:53:09.690
may

632
00:53:10.285 --> 00:53:25.490
provide you the privilege that Guatemalans have access to, you know, primary source documents, but you may live in a county that doesn't. And so my message to be 3,000? Is that what it is? Over 3,000 counties. Yeah. Okay. Over 3,000. But under 4,000?

633
00:53:25.954 --> 00:53:31.415
Under 4,000. Okay. And, It's in the threes. Well, the thing is there's also, like, 7,000,

634
00:53:32.194 --> 00:53:32.694
ish

635
00:53:33.050 --> 00:53:40.645
taxable jurisdictions, and so there's it's unclear to me whether or not it's actually 7,000 different election systems. But there's

636
00:53:41.105 --> 00:53:45.045
at least over 3,000 county clerks. Got it. And I would say

637
00:53:45.425 --> 00:53:48.645
you was you were saying, oh, it's a bigger problem, actually, buddy.

638
00:53:49.530 --> 00:53:58.674
Buddy. Yeah. I'm your buddy, pal. I of those 3,000 counties, I would challenge you to say there's probably not that many that have more registered voters than the Guatemalan,

639
00:53:59.135 --> 00:54:04.115
state does. Okay. That's interesting. So our single authority oversees 9,000,000 votes.

640
00:54:04.470 --> 00:54:04.970
Your

641
00:54:05.430 --> 00:54:06.490
3,000 authorities

642
00:54:06.790 --> 00:54:07.290
oversee

643
00:54:07.670 --> 00:54:09.369
less than But you have 25,000

644
00:54:09.670 --> 00:54:20.145
tables, and we have essentially 3,000 tables. Right? Well, actually, you'd have 3,000, you know, voting districts and however many voting tables inside those Inside the district. Exactly.

645
00:54:20.685 --> 00:54:22.190
So my point is

646
00:54:22.750 --> 00:54:25.410
the the people in the hot seat come November

647
00:54:25.869 --> 00:54:28.849
are those county clerks. Okay. And so

648
00:54:29.230 --> 00:54:31.810
you were saying it's gonna be harder. Actually, no.

649
00:54:32.575 --> 00:54:36.035
The fact that this this what I just described I will say I appreciate your

650
00:54:36.495 --> 00:54:42.119
optimism. The the the the time stamping service that that we provided the election authorities in Guatemala

651
00:54:42.500 --> 00:54:46.200
is essentially cover your ass insurance for election authorities.

652
00:54:46.934 --> 00:54:51.994
And we proved that in Guatemala, not only can you get election authorities to buy it, but

653
00:54:52.375 --> 00:55:01.360
they were accused of election fraud. Right. And that's where this little, you know, card that I'm leaving here and for folks that want to, you I invite you to watch a 16 minute documentary

654
00:55:01.975 --> 00:55:02.795
called immutable

655
00:55:03.175 --> 00:55:04.635
How many minutes? 16.

656
00:55:05.015 --> 00:55:07.755
16. Should we play it? No. We're not gonna play it. That's ridiculous.

657
00:55:08.375 --> 00:55:14.900
So, like, 10% of the episode is just like the documentary. Okay. But what is this website? What is the website? It's film.simpleproof.com.

658
00:55:16.799 --> 00:55:17.995
Filmdot simpleproof.com.

659
00:55:18.855 --> 00:55:21.195
Or immutable democracy on YouTube.

660
00:55:21.655 --> 00:55:31.490
Okay. It's free. Okay. Perfect. And so in 16 minutes, we'll show you how it happened in Guatemala, and they were accused of election tampering. Does it work well audio only or no?

661
00:55:31.869 --> 00:55:39.244
No. Okay. Yeah. I'm so not gonna put it at the end. I will not put it at the end of the episode, freaks. And just go search immutable democracy

662
00:55:40.210 --> 00:55:42.930
on YouTube after you finish this episode. And so,

663
00:55:43.890 --> 00:55:47.030
the election authorities in Guatemala were accused of election tampering.

664
00:55:47.375 --> 00:55:48.195
And it's

665
00:55:48.575 --> 00:55:53.875
the work that Simple Proof did by using Bitcoin as their witness Right. To

666
00:55:54.495 --> 00:56:02.830
is giving them the proof that they need that no election tampering happened. Right. And so you are literally in Guatemala have the situation where an election authority

667
00:56:03.174 --> 00:56:04.474
is facing accusations

668
00:56:04.775 --> 00:56:10.714
from the justice department of election tampering Right. And being able to credibly make the case that that is

669
00:56:11.059 --> 00:56:11.880
not true

670
00:56:12.260 --> 00:56:16.920
because of Bitcoin. So Right. Bitcoin in the first time that it was used by a country

671
00:56:17.859 --> 00:56:23.185
thank you. Yeah. The first time One of the freaks put the link in the comments. Thank you, Bitcoin and Cloud. Continue.

672
00:56:23.645 --> 00:56:41.945
And so, the first time that Bitcoin was used to protect a national voting system was the first time that the national voting authorities used Bitcoin to protect themselves from a justice department accusing them of election tampering. And so Cool. It's very useful, and and election authorities So you're saying they have an incentive?

673
00:56:42.325 --> 00:56:44.185
I mean, whoever wins wants

674
00:56:45.160 --> 00:56:56.015
whoever wins wants to be able to prove that that it's legit. Right? Well, more than that, it's the election authority. You're a local county clerk, which might already be a Bitcoiner and might not know about this story.

675
00:56:56.315 --> 00:57:00.335
He's in the hot seat, and come November, he might get accused of election tampering.

676
00:57:00.930 --> 00:57:08.550
Because he's the one that can tamper the JPEG. Exactly. He's the one that goes to jail if election tampering is proven. Right. So I don't know.

677
00:57:08.930 --> 00:57:10.295
So he's the one to convince.

678
00:57:10.615 --> 00:57:18.954
Exactly. So if your freaks wanna do this, my my message to them is it's actually just 3,000 of these people have to make this decision.

679
00:57:19.350 --> 00:57:29.475
And we're not saying And even if you get, like, 200, 300, it's net net benefit. Dude, I'm looking for 1. Yeah. Like, I got 3,000 of that. I turn to the optimistic one. Right?

680
00:57:29.935 --> 00:58:01.420
You're you're just like, okay. We'll get one person. If we just get one county in the 3,000 Have you talked to the Nashville County Clerk? Davidson County? I just got here on Thursday, and I'm leaving tomorrow. So I have not had a chance, but I was speaking to some folks here. Did you talk to Rod about it? I I've I've I'm pointing to Rod. He's in the other room. I that's the plan. I was talking to some other folks up there. Rod's big in the poll local politics. There there are some folks that are getting excited about this. Personally, I'm disenfranchised. Like, I don't, This is not about politics. Freedom Text fixes this, not democracy. But This is not about democracy. I still like it. I think it's an improvement.

681
00:58:01.880 --> 00:58:06.055
This is about, hey, what I want Like, Rod's like a big wine Rod,

682
00:58:06.515 --> 00:58:07.895
wine and diner kinda.

683
00:58:08.275 --> 00:58:23.045
Well, it's it's Politician guy. My message is if we can get even one county in the United States to do this Then he probably plays golf with the county clerk. Like, you should that's what I'm saying. I'm I'm I'm going to talk to him. To be clear. I mean, he said he wasn't in town, and I'm glad he's back.

684
00:58:24.464 --> 00:58:43.734
If we even had just won, we can credibly make the case as of November of this year that Bitcoin protects democracy in the United States of America. Right. And all of a sudden, when, you know, people are making the argument that we should turn off the miners because they're doing useless, you know, mathematical formulas, Well, we can call a few county clerks and have them share their story

685
00:58:44.035 --> 00:58:49.575
about how Bitcoin enabled them to create an anchor of truth in a sea of lies.

686
00:58:50.000 --> 00:58:57.300
Right. And that's the point. It's if you're it I'm not asking you to care about the elections come November. I'm asking you to see it as an opportunity

687
00:58:58.105 --> 00:58:59.325
to get Bitcoin

688
00:58:59.704 --> 00:59:00.204
to

689
00:59:00.664 --> 00:59:01.164
protect

690
00:59:01.785 --> 00:59:11.030
this thing that people care about. Right. And therefore, they'll have a different touch point with it, and potentially, it'll be easier to orange pill your neighbors because maybe some of them care about Bitcoin

691
00:59:11.410 --> 00:59:15.505
care about their elections. And by doing this, you're gonna actually help someone out.

692
00:59:16.065 --> 00:59:34.925
These election authorities are usually well meaning, you know, normies, precoiners that just haven't gotten hit by the the fiat apocalypse yet, but it's coming for them. And they may end up going to jail come November if if they're on the wrong, you know, place when when the tornado of of clown world comes to pick them up.

693
00:59:35.305 --> 00:59:37.885
So, it is very simple to integrate.

694
00:59:38.185 --> 00:59:42.910
And of course, if you wanna go all in and do an audit and use it as a means of

695
00:59:43.309 --> 00:59:45.569
exposing normies to their 1st lightning transaction,

696
00:59:45.869 --> 00:59:52.770
obviously, reach out to me. I'm I'm very passionate about that. But just the the easy wind here is

697
00:59:53.135 --> 00:59:54.435
if Bitcoin protects

698
00:59:54.815 --> 00:59:56.515
small local elections,

699
00:59:57.055 --> 00:59:58.115
then we've just,

700
00:59:58.895 --> 01:00:00.435
proved a use case

701
01:00:00.735 --> 01:00:04.339
that can't be removed. And I can tell you from my experience,

702
01:00:04.880 --> 01:00:19.480
the the winners of the Guatemalan election who were, you know, they tried to repeat the election. Now I can talk to the executive branch of the Guatemalan government and tell them Bitcoin helped you. Right. And they know it. Like, they can't take it back.

703
01:00:19.860 --> 01:00:28.465
Bitcoin did that for them. And so when I'm sitting down with a a government bureaucrat in in Guatemala to tell them to not do some stupid law.

704
01:00:28.845 --> 01:00:30.945
Like, they they have something

705
01:00:31.405 --> 01:00:38.170
that they know is real. And if they get a call from someone to say, oh, you, you know, have to abolish Bitcoin,

706
01:00:38.630 --> 01:00:42.170
they're gonna have to, you know, reconcile that internally.

707
01:00:42.630 --> 01:00:45.505
To me, this is win win because I love Bitcoin,

708
01:00:46.125 --> 01:00:48.224
and I don't trust our election process.

709
01:00:48.845 --> 01:00:54.420
So if I could trust it a little bit more like, it's a very low bar. Yeah. Like, the bar is is quite low.

710
01:00:54.980 --> 01:00:59.480
We have someone in the comments asking what block explorer I show on screen. It's it's mempool.space.

711
01:01:02.175 --> 01:01:06.595
Yeah. To me, this is win win. But, I mean, when I say it's a bigger hurdle

712
01:01:08.095 --> 01:01:08.595
is,

713
01:01:09.160 --> 01:01:11.260
like, god. I wish we had

714
01:01:11.720 --> 01:01:12.700
paper ballots

715
01:01:13.240 --> 01:01:14.060
and JPEGs.

716
01:01:14.840 --> 01:01:16.860
Right now, what we have is closed source

717
01:01:17.320 --> 01:01:18.620
digital voting machines

718
01:01:19.115 --> 01:01:25.535
with, like, 0 fucking audit trail from the time you press the fucking touchscreen. No. You don't. That's incorrect.

719
01:01:26.569 --> 01:01:37.205
Some counties have that. Some counties have that. Got it. Not all of them. Right. And so that's the other point about this is there are some legit, like, decent elections in this country

720
01:01:37.665 --> 01:01:43.109
and some county clerks that are very passionate about what they've done. But New York gets a lot of shit deservingly,

721
01:01:43.650 --> 01:01:47.589
but I will say my time in New York, it was always paper ballots. Paper ballots only.

722
01:01:48.770 --> 01:01:52.405
And I just heard I I was talking to some folks that did some work in Missouri,

723
01:01:53.265 --> 01:01:57.505
and and I believe And the freaks in America, you'll remember the hanging chads of

724
01:01:58.670 --> 01:02:07.115
Florida. Florida. Yeah. There there's there's a lot of places that do offer you access to the primary source data, and you'd be surprised.

725
01:02:07.415 --> 01:02:10.315
My invitation to Bitcoin is listening to this is let's

726
01:02:10.935 --> 01:02:16.859
unless you've got too much going on. Right? Like if you're already building a bunch of stuff, but if you're a Bitcoiner that's kind of just, you know,

727
01:02:17.160 --> 01:02:18.140
not doing much,

728
01:02:18.760 --> 01:02:22.059
then just I invite you to go and knock on your county clerk's door

729
01:02:22.359 --> 01:02:23.500
and ask them, hey,

730
01:02:24.025 --> 01:02:28.285
Can I get access to the data and audit the election? Like, is that even possible here?

731
01:02:28.825 --> 01:02:36.990
And at worst, you'll find out that you do live in a county like the one you described where the it's a don't verify trust Yeah. System.

732
01:02:37.369 --> 01:02:42.615
But I'd say I'd Well, I've never voted in Nashville. Well, just to be clear,

733
01:02:42.915 --> 01:02:44.135
well, knowing

734
01:02:44.595 --> 01:02:46.455
if your county is that

735
01:02:46.915 --> 01:02:50.810
is useful. Just just answering for yourself whether or not

736
01:02:51.349 --> 01:02:54.410
your county is a don't verify trust county

737
01:02:54.790 --> 01:02:59.175
will give you a sense Get it's it's actionable information. It's intelligence

738
01:02:59.475 --> 01:03:02.135
about the county clerk and the people there,

739
01:03:02.755 --> 01:03:07.170
and responsible for your records because the county clerks are the ones that run the records locally.

740
01:03:07.550 --> 01:03:09.490
And so just knowing if your county

741
01:03:09.869 --> 01:03:11.810
doesn't believe and don't trust verify

742
01:03:12.270 --> 01:03:32.565
is useful. Maybe you should consider moving to a a county that does have a a don't trust verify philosophy, and there are those counties. And my point is Yeah. But for the presidential election, you still have to go by the other counties too. Well, that's my point. It's like, who cares about the president? This whole electoral college system. So, like, it really it really matters what is the majority of counties in your state are doing.

743
01:03:33.025 --> 01:04:05.665
But you're falling into the trap of thinking that that's why this matters. Like, it doesn't. No. I this is what I love about you is that you're just solving the problems you can solve. You're not trying to solve everything. So it's like all these little, like, but, what, this, and but if. It's like, yeah. We're not solving that problem What would for you. What we're doing is those counties that have a don't trust But as an American, this is important for like, because I don't I try and stay out of politics, but, like, it if it comes up, like, it's important for me to make it clear how disenfranchised I am with the current state of things. Like, the audience should be aware of this.

744
01:04:07.405 --> 01:04:10.205
And, like, the other piece too is is

745
01:04:11.150 --> 01:04:14.530
and I know this has become political. Oh, by the way, to the freak,

746
01:04:15.630 --> 01:04:16.130
JPEG.

747
01:04:16.510 --> 01:04:17.250
I reloaded

748
01:04:17.550 --> 01:04:19.070
I have to reload the live,

749
01:04:19.390 --> 01:04:20.130
I have to

750
01:04:27.839 --> 01:04:29.940
You've said you've never seen that graphic on mempool.space

751
01:04:30.320 --> 01:04:32.099
before. I I believe it's mempool.space/clock.

752
01:04:34.160 --> 01:04:38.715
Oh. And and, yes, Wiz did, for dispatch. Mhmm. So

753
01:04:39.095 --> 01:04:40.474
shout out shout out, Wiz.

754
01:04:41.175 --> 01:04:43.355
And that was I needed something that was,

755
01:04:44.375 --> 01:04:47.080
that worked with the live chat because live chat freaks.

756
01:04:47.800 --> 01:04:51.740
You guys are the rider dies, and I appreciate you. So it was important.

757
01:04:52.600 --> 01:04:53.340
But, anyway,

758
01:04:54.440 --> 01:04:55.420
mail in voting

759
01:04:56.025 --> 01:04:56.765
has become

760
01:04:58.025 --> 01:04:58.845
a somehow,

761
01:04:59.785 --> 01:05:01.005
partisan issue.

762
01:05:01.945 --> 01:05:06.180
And it probably will just flip which party is upset about. Probably whoever loses

763
01:05:06.800 --> 01:05:08.660
will always be upset with mail in voting.

764
01:05:09.440 --> 01:05:15.365
Mail in voting is a problem. Like, that is not okay. I'm not cool with it. I'm kinda curious on your opinion.

765
01:05:15.985 --> 01:05:16.885
But to me,

766
01:05:17.585 --> 01:05:20.805
the whole idea of in person secret ballots

767
01:05:21.400 --> 01:05:21.900
are

768
01:05:22.280 --> 01:05:24.460
are are incredibly important

769
01:05:24.760 --> 01:05:26.620
to the integrity of an election.

770
01:05:27.080 --> 01:05:31.755
And the reason is because your boss or your spouse or someone else

771
01:05:32.455 --> 01:05:34.875
can coerce you, can force you to vote,

772
01:05:35.335 --> 01:05:36.875
or can buy your vote

773
01:05:37.575 --> 01:05:38.075
by

774
01:05:38.560 --> 01:05:42.980
by standing over your shoulder while you mail in the ballot. And this is why

775
01:05:43.600 --> 01:05:45.460
blockchain voting doesn't work.

776
01:05:46.225 --> 01:05:56.530
This is why digital app based voting doesn't work. It's all the same problem. The same problem is if the person who is buying your vote or forcing your vote can verify which way you voted,

777
01:05:57.390 --> 01:06:04.050
then the integrity of the election is comp is compromised. Now I will say there is a middle ground

778
01:06:05.244 --> 01:06:09.585
where you can do, like, a mail in remote voting kind of situation

779
01:06:10.204 --> 01:06:11.744
where they can verifiably

780
01:06:12.365 --> 01:06:15.730
override their vote in person later. So, like, you have

781
01:06:16.350 --> 01:06:17.250
the coercer.

782
01:06:17.550 --> 01:06:18.270
You have,

783
01:06:18.590 --> 01:06:22.875
your boss, your spouse. Those are the two main ones. Right? And there's obviously other ones.

784
01:06:23.435 --> 01:06:27.535
I think someone got in trouble because they tried to sell their vote on eBay at one point.

785
01:06:28.395 --> 01:06:38.260
But, like, your boss or your spouse, like, they they look over your your shoulder while you're on the app or you're mailing in your vote, and they've they force you to vote a certain way. And then

786
01:06:38.640 --> 01:06:39.780
but they they can't

787
01:06:41.414 --> 01:06:47.035
they they have no idea that come election day, you actually go down and you you change your vote.

788
01:06:47.734 --> 01:06:53.359
That kind of solves a lot of the problems, and it's kind of a it's an interesting middle ground there.

789
01:06:54.780 --> 01:07:05.365
But it's something for people to keep in mind. Did does Guatemala have mail in voting? No. Yeah. And we also when you show up and we give you the ballot, we paint your finger with in the office. It's

790
01:07:05.905 --> 01:07:07.480
the cheapest double spendable

791
01:07:08.020 --> 01:07:15.585
world. Democracies, but it fucking works. It's this Like, does your finger have ink on it? You can't vote. Exactly. So the best you can do is, like, change your voting jurisdiction, but you can't

792
01:07:17.665 --> 01:07:21.905
million. Right? And so, in terms of getting into Ink finger is like a

793
01:07:22.464 --> 01:07:24.280
it's it's clever. It's, you know, Satoshi

794
01:07:24.580 --> 01:07:25.960
is in the real world, man.

795
01:07:26.740 --> 01:07:35.904
So in terms of, like, the rabbit hole of voting, etcetera, like, I Close source digital voting machines too, man. Goddamn it. And they're publicly traded too. It's like

796
01:07:36.525 --> 01:07:41.744
your your favorite closed source voting machine that you can audit is also, like, pays dividends.

797
01:07:42.045 --> 01:07:44.290
Yes. Legit pays dividends. It's insane.

798
01:07:44.670 --> 01:07:56.585
I I but, see, in terms of my why how this solves that portion, Matt, is you were earlier, you were mentioning, oh, we're we we have this close source system that's but that's not true. It's like there's it's

799
01:07:57.080 --> 01:08:05.820
there's this perception, you know. Cloud world has taken us to a point where, you know, you just assume that everything's fucked. Right. And that's just not true. There are places

800
01:08:06.395 --> 01:08:12.895
where people have their citadels, and they're trying to fight back. Right. What I'm saying is if we can empower those

801
01:08:13.195 --> 01:08:13.695
counties

802
01:08:14.234 --> 01:08:14.974
to resist,

803
01:08:15.680 --> 01:08:17.860
then we're reaching we're we're we're

804
01:08:18.160 --> 01:08:19.700
giving them the proper weaponry,

805
01:08:20.320 --> 01:08:21.620
you know, digital encrypted

806
01:08:23.915 --> 01:08:26.575
tools that were used, you know, used to be considered

807
01:08:27.275 --> 01:08:27.775
weapons,

808
01:08:28.315 --> 01:08:38.239
we're giving them those counties the tools they need to withstand this storm. And so instead of just having the the the slow creep of this nonsense continue,

809
01:08:38.620 --> 01:09:12.950
then it's reach out to your local guy and and help them because he'll if you if you imagine, like, Gandalf, like, putting the staff down and and and and stopping the Balrog. Like, you shall not pass. Freaks. He's doing the he's it looks kinda looks like he's jerking off, but he's doing the staff movement. Yeah. It's it's it's, at the very least, if you are I think weapons is a little bit provocative. What about shields? Yeah. Shields. This is this is a unstoppable. Defensive. It's it's a defensive tool. Exactly. It's it's it's making sure that the slow creep of this nonsense that is just taking over more and more places

810
01:09:13.570 --> 01:09:14.070
stops.

811
01:09:14.530 --> 01:09:20.915
And, you know, it's gonna be harder to flip the places that are are already on the other side.

812
01:09:21.395 --> 01:09:22.695
But I think that if we've,

813
01:09:23.235 --> 01:09:26.375
empower and strengthen those places that are still solid,

814
01:09:26.755 --> 01:09:30.570
it'll be easier to continue to make the case that these places are the better place

815
01:09:31.290 --> 01:09:49.750
to live. I don't know what drove you to move to Nashville, but, like, you I gotta think that this is where you're making your stand. Right? And so it's it's there are people that aren't for now. Yeah. There aren't there's some people here that haven't gotten the message yet with Bitcoin, but this is a different way to do that. To get them to understand this will protect you from the insanity

816
01:09:50.369 --> 01:09:53.030
that will come for this place. Come November,

817
01:09:53.489 --> 01:09:54.389
it's it's

818
01:09:54.695 --> 01:10:00.555
it's a crapshoot. Ridiculous. It's a crapshoot, man. Are you is your county gonna be the county that just decides

819
01:10:01.255 --> 01:10:19.585
something that is gonna be so valuable that whoever loses is gonna say the election was fake Exactly. No matter what. Like, I if I could bet on that, if anyone would take odds on that, I would just bet all the whole house on it Exactly. No matter what. But so there's gonna be so many counties that are gonna have to defend themselves against insanity,

820
01:10:19.950 --> 01:10:20.450
And

821
01:10:20.990 --> 01:10:22.130
they won't forget

822
01:10:22.510 --> 01:10:25.970
when you showed up and gave them the tool that protected them.

823
01:10:26.350 --> 01:10:47.565
And it'll just make it easier to orange peel your your neighbors and your friends and and the guy that handles your your archives locally. You know, the county clerk is responsible for a lot of archives and that's the other option. The cool thing about this is you start with the election system, but then you can move into the rest of the archives that are, gathered locally. And so I wanna live in a world. I wanna raise my kids in a world where

824
01:10:48.345 --> 01:10:49.565
if at any point

825
01:10:49.945 --> 01:10:54.830
you are sued by the state, the state has to provide evidence with timestamps

826
01:10:55.210 --> 01:10:57.389
that you can trustlessly or trust minimized,

827
01:10:58.090 --> 01:11:12.469
in a trust minimized way verify for yourself. I do not wanna live in a world where when I'm sued by the state and the state is arguing that I committed election fraud and I'm a treasonous, you know, my fuck that should be disappeared. Yeah. I wanna be able to to say, well, show me the time stamps.

828
01:11:12.929 --> 01:11:17.594
And so I think this is is one way that we can get closer to that world,

829
01:11:17.974 --> 01:11:19.594
before it all goes to hell.

830
01:11:20.695 --> 01:11:23.034
Fuck. Yeah. Well, I got your back, Carlos.

831
01:11:24.260 --> 01:11:32.199
Pride or die. I I would love to see more integrity in elections. And I would say to your point of, like, why did my family move to Nashville? It's like,

832
01:11:33.285 --> 01:11:34.585
in America specifically,

833
01:11:36.725 --> 01:11:39.305
I mean, the core one of the core foundational

834
01:11:40.820 --> 01:11:46.040
defense mechanisms we have is is free movement between the states and competition between the states.

835
01:11:48.025 --> 01:11:50.125
And, yes, it's always difficult to move,

836
01:11:51.065 --> 01:11:52.284
but I Americans,

837
01:11:52.585 --> 01:11:56.905
we specifically have this privilege that it's much easier for us to move between,

838
01:11:58.250 --> 01:11:59.310
competing jurisdictions

839
01:11:59.690 --> 01:12:02.030
than for most of the rest of the world.

840
01:12:03.610 --> 01:12:06.910
And the very least you can do is is move to a place where

841
01:12:09.244 --> 01:12:15.824
you think it's a little bit better for your family, and and and that's why we love New York. You know? And if people go back,

842
01:12:17.520 --> 01:12:23.540
I guess rabbit hole recap now is gonna be going for 5 and a half years every week. Every fucking week.

843
01:12:23.920 --> 01:12:26.595
They need to take a break eventually. We're gonna take a break, guys.

844
01:12:27.395 --> 01:12:29.895
Still dispatch has been going for, like, 3 years now.

845
01:12:30.435 --> 01:12:37.090
And I was publicly a a a New York maximum. I was a New York maximumist before I was a Bitcoin maximalist. New York's the best state.

846
01:12:38.270 --> 01:12:44.785
And I I stayed humble, and I put my pride away, and I I moved the family. We we moved together, and,

847
01:12:46.525 --> 01:12:48.865
that was part of the reason. Part of the reason was,

848
01:12:52.090 --> 01:12:52.670
you know,

849
01:12:53.130 --> 01:12:55.710
at at the end of the day, what what do humans have,

850
01:12:56.090 --> 01:12:56.750
to fight,

851
01:12:57.610 --> 01:13:05.975
those in power? Right? And and the number one thing you have is your feet. Right? And and move somewhere where you where you think you're getting a better shake. For sure.

852
01:13:06.435 --> 01:13:12.619
Wouldn't it be more attractive to find a jurisdiction where all of the public records are time stamped to Bitcoin?

853
01:13:13.159 --> 01:13:16.300
Yeah. Obviously. A 100%. Hell, yeah. And so

854
01:13:17.355 --> 01:13:19.535
I just wanna see some JPEGs, but

855
01:13:20.315 --> 01:13:21.855
I honestly, I

856
01:13:22.315 --> 01:13:31.119
I might be wrong. You seem to know more about the US election system than I do, but I have never seen, like, JPEG tallies. Not not even

857
01:13:32.780 --> 01:13:33.280
hash

858
01:13:34.275 --> 01:13:49.740
time stamped into Bitcoin blockchain Just the j JPEGs. I have never even seen a JPEG tell I'm sure they probably exist somewhere Well on some random dot gov site. Well, they then that's my other message is that there's a the the election integrity, like, movement or whatever,

859
01:13:50.280 --> 01:14:05.550
there are some folks that have been fighting to get open source into the election system. Yeah. I mean, what if you have a digital voting machine, first of all, it should be, at the very least, source viewable. I'm not even I don't wanna get into a license debate. I'm not saying that the machine has to be false.

860
01:14:06.170 --> 01:14:08.429
Like, I should be able to verify the source.

861
01:14:08.785 --> 01:14:18.005
And then second of all, it should print a fucking paper receipt, and you should manually take the paper receipt out. This is so simple shit. It's like the ink on the finger.

862
01:14:18.330 --> 01:14:19.390
Take the paper receipt,

863
01:14:19.850 --> 01:14:32.215
and then there's a box next to the machine. You should take the paper receipt, put it in the box next to the machine. If you question the machine, you check the paper receipts in the in the box. And as Super simple. As it's going in the box, it should be scanned.

864
01:14:32.515 --> 01:14:39.710
Yeah. Well, I mean, it doesn't even have to be. Well, that's this is just have a box of paper receipts that we can have, like, a warring tribe of 10 people

865
01:14:40.090 --> 01:15:02.545
all look at the paper receipts after the fact if we think the machine has fucked around with us. We don't most of the counties don't have that. Well, you've just described the gold standard of what, you know, proper elections are supposed to be like. And it's not a disputed gold standard. It's just that the nerds think that and there's a group of nerds that have been fighting for this for decades. And guess what? They are losing.

866
01:15:03.245 --> 01:15:11.350
They've been losing. And so another point here is we need to bring that group of people that from that false, you know, group

867
01:15:11.889 --> 01:15:13.989
to realize Bitcoin is your friend.

868
01:15:14.534 --> 01:15:19.514
Yeah. If you have found, if you've been able to work with a county somewhere

869
01:15:19.894 --> 01:15:47.969
that is doing what you described and there are there's, like, not all of the counties are are crap. Right? There are some good people trying to it's not rocket science. This is not building a a a rocket ship. It's super simple. It's very simple. You put ink on the finger. You have paper receipts. Like, that's all I need. And and then you I'm a simple guy. And and and when the when the at the end of the day, you dump all the receipt, and in front of everyone, you do the count, and then you write it down. Shit. You put it in the blockchain. Boom. Boom. Boom. Like

870
01:15:48.350 --> 01:15:58.235
so there's plenty of people solved it. There's plenty of people that do this. And what this my message is, let's those people need your help, and they will,

871
01:15:58.935 --> 01:16:00.429
you know, they will

872
01:16:00.730 --> 01:16:05.550
appreciate the help. And if we can call more attention to those counties,

873
01:16:06.329 --> 01:16:06.909
I think

874
01:16:07.335 --> 01:16:26.515
places like Nashville or or other places I don't know. I'm not vouching for Davidson County, Nashville's County. Well Like I said, I have not voted here. Well, it's it now that you have voted with your feet here, maybe you can start demanding better services from your local government. Yeah. I mean, Carlos, this is why you visited. You know? Like, just look me in the eye and, like, make me do things.

875
01:16:28.255 --> 01:16:29.795
Carlos, this has been great.

876
01:16:32.840 --> 01:16:35.340
I guess let me say my piece real quick.

877
01:16:36.120 --> 01:16:38.895
Freaks, thank you for joining us in the live chat.

878
01:16:39.775 --> 01:16:49.280
The Freaks that joined us in the live chat, Zap stats directly in the live chat. Like, you guys are the ride or dies. It's amazing having you. You guys make the show unique. There's nothing like it. I don't think,

879
01:16:50.940 --> 01:16:54.880
we're a completely unmoderated live chat. You guys are, like, part of the hosts.

880
01:16:56.135 --> 01:16:59.435
Also, we obviously have no ads. We have no sponsors,

881
01:17:00.135 --> 01:17:00.635
and,

882
01:17:01.575 --> 01:17:01.815
we

883
01:17:02.640 --> 01:17:13.975
dispatch just relies on on donations directly from the audience. This is a concept called value for value. It's very early days, but, you guys are the trailblazers here. So I do appreciate you guys supporting the show.

884
01:17:14.675 --> 01:17:15.495
Our top

885
01:17:16.435 --> 01:17:17.335
4 supporters

886
01:17:17.795 --> 01:17:25.660
this week was 8 Myth Rander with 48,000 stats, Gary Krause with 20,000 stats, t dub with 10,000 stats, and user t3ccapt

887
01:17:27.000 --> 01:17:28.300
with 10,000 stats.

888
01:17:28.625 --> 01:17:31.844
Thank you, Freaks, for supporting the show. I know sats are scarce.

889
01:17:33.105 --> 01:17:39.750
Maybe you should consider verifying a local election, and you can start earning sats. But if you don't have stats to spare,

890
01:17:40.210 --> 01:17:46.469
share the share the show with friends and family. We're in every podcast app. Just search dispatch. All the links are at dispatch.com.

891
01:17:48.055 --> 01:17:50.715
Leave a review. All these things do help. Carlos,

892
01:17:51.095 --> 01:17:52.635
this has been fucking awesome.

893
01:17:53.415 --> 01:17:56.315
Do you have any final thoughts, for audience?

894
01:17:57.990 --> 01:17:59.450
Don't give up on your neighbor.

895
01:18:00.310 --> 01:18:02.890
We need a lot of people in the citadels.

896
01:18:03.750 --> 01:18:05.930
And if they weren't

897
01:18:06.235 --> 01:18:12.015
ready to grok Bitcoin because of some money, maybe truth and integrity is the way to go.

898
01:18:12.395 --> 01:18:13.375
And just

899
01:18:14.210 --> 01:18:17.270
see elections as an opportunity to farm more Bitcoiners,

900
01:18:18.210 --> 01:18:24.535
or at the very least, get the word out about the fact that we don't all need to live in a sea of lies.

901
01:18:25.235 --> 01:18:27.895
We some of us choose to have an anchor of truth,

902
01:18:28.275 --> 01:18:29.735
and I think that's

903
01:18:31.699 --> 01:18:41.515
useful. It it at the very least helped me not lose my mind in our elections which were garbage and nonsense. And and now I have an end to some of the folks that,

904
01:18:41.915 --> 01:18:51.190
are making decisions that actually do affect me, and they can't ignore the fact that Bitcoin helped them. So, just check it out. Immutable democracy,

905
01:18:51.810 --> 01:19:03.445
reach out on on Noster. I'm more than happy to help anyone that wants to try to take a crack at it. Yeah. So he's digital witness on Noster. You should use Noster. I mean, if you're listening to the show, I'm, like, broken record on that.

906
01:19:03.905 --> 01:19:05.670
Carlos. Oh, and, also, immutable

907
01:19:06.130 --> 01:19:06.630
democracy

908
01:19:07.170 --> 01:19:13.830
search on YouTube. Watch the video. 16 minutes. Carlos, thank you for visiting Nashville. Always a pleasure. It's it's

909
01:19:14.195 --> 01:19:17.095
I really enjoyed this rep. I hope the freaks enjoyed it.

910
01:19:18.115 --> 01:19:20.775
I'm proud to call you a friend. Thank you for all you do.

911
01:19:21.075 --> 01:19:22.690
My pleasure, man. It's an honor.

912
01:19:23.010 --> 01:19:26.469
Let's fucking go. And, Phreaks, tomorrow, we have another dispatch

913
01:19:27.010 --> 01:19:27.830
at 1500

914
01:19:28.370 --> 01:19:30.130
UTC. So that's 2 hours you

915
01:19:31.075 --> 01:19:34.215
2 hours earlier than usual with Kieran of ZapStream.

916
01:19:35.235 --> 01:19:38.375
We'll talk to him all about why your Zaps aren't showing up.

917
01:19:38.755 --> 01:19:40.855
And then the day after that, because

918
01:19:42.660 --> 01:19:44.500
can't stop, won't stop, we have,

919
01:19:44.900 --> 01:19:52.275
1700 UTC. We have Ben Arc of Ellen Bits, so that'll be fun. Thank you, Carlos. Thank you, Freaks. Appreciate it.

920
01:20:29.580 --> 01:20:30.320
The chance.

921
01:20:31.980 --> 01:20:36.480
I'd love to collapse with you and ease you against this song.

922
01:20:37.900 --> 01:20:38.305
I think

923
01:21:20.010 --> 01:21:24.030
A heart doesn't play by rules, and love has its own demand.

924
01:21:25.610 --> 01:21:30.114
But I'll be there to take care of you if ever you should decide.

925
01:23:25.290 --> 01:23:26.110
To you.

926
01:23:42.140 --> 01:23:43.120
Love you, freaks.

927
01:23:43.739 --> 01:23:45.500
That was that track was,

928
01:23:46.620 --> 01:23:48.560
will do by TV on the radio,

929
01:23:49.458 --> 01:23:53.078
and, I'll see you all tomorrow. Stay humble, sex hats.

930
01:23:53.538 --> 01:23:54.038
Peace.