Espresso Shot 26 with Ashley Winterrowd

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;45;16
Unknown
Wellcome. Oh. Welcome to espresso shots. I usually do the intro, Sarah. No, I don't. yes you do Oh, the welcome part. Yeah. Oh. Welcome. Thank you. Today we're joined by Ashley. Winterrod Is that correct? That's close. It's winter road down like the opposite of Summer Street. Okay. All right, That's fair. I like it. I Ashley is an assistant director of career programing and graduate career services at the Bush school.

00;00;45;19 - 00;01;09;21
Unknown
She is passionate about helping students develop and achieve their personal, educational and professional goals through training and conversation outside of work. Ashley loves to read. Always has a book or Kindle in her bag, listens to all kinds of music, and keeps it playing in her office all day. She also has an entirely ridiculous dog named Topher Bubbles. True story.

00;01;09;24 - 00;01;35;23
Unknown
I need the background story of the name quickly before. This is about you, I need to know. Okay, so it's really interesting. One of my dad's best friends. Their family dog is a wiener dog, and he is precious. And his name is topher And so that name was, like, subliminally placed in my head when I was in, like, middle school.

00;01;35;25 - 00;01;57;27
Unknown
And I was like, I just need a dog named Topher. I don't know. And then my niece, we were playing at my parents house out in the yard with bubbles, and toph was just he just lost his mind and my niece and like all of her precious adorableness, looked at me with her big eyes and said, Does he have a middle name?

00;01;57;28 - 00;02;18;12
Unknown
And I said, No. And she said, Can it be bubbles? He loves them. So I said, Yes. His name. His name can be Tope or Bubbles. And so that's his name. And it's ridiculous. But like, he's ridiculous. And so it's fine. That's adorable.

00;02;18;15 - 00;02;51;22
Unknown
What book are you reading right now? I'm actually I read interchangeably, which is ridiculous. I know that. And so I'm actually reading Happiness 101 by Tim Bonner. And I'm rereading Susan Kane's Quiet about Introversion because I'm I'm an introvert. Like the end degree. But I went to a professional development seminar where Dr. Bono was talking and it's happiness.

00;02;51;22 - 00;03;19;20
Unknown
One on one. And it's so incredibly interesting about positive psychology. It's a course that he teaches at Washington University that's like everybody fights to get in this class. And it's so interesting. Yeah. Sounds like I need to read that kind of fiction. It's just that once I finished, I'll. I'll bring it over to you. Awesome. Yeah, I'll finish mine.

00;03;19;20 - 00;03;47;08
Unknown
T.J., I need to give it to you. I'm trying to read more. I used to read a lot and I don't have time sharing and sharing. Okay, well, if you start reading, you're just going to fall asleep, and that's not an option. Well, that's not. I'm definitely the reader. That's like a lot more chapter. And then it's like 6:00 in the morning and you're like, Oops, yeah.

00;03;47;11 - 00;04;11;16
Unknown
You go to like 1204 and you're like, Well, past midnight, I guess I have to finish. I can start at one. Well, yeah. Or like, Oh, well, it's got to be, you know, like an increment of five. So let me read for one more minute and then clearly you go over one more minute. So now it's got to be 12, 15 or 1230 and yeah, I'm bad as if fall asleep within the next 5 minutes.

00;04;11;18 - 00;04;38;00
Unknown
No, I'm going to finish my cup of cold coffee and I won't. The conversation with adults helps. Yeah. Stay awake. Stay awake. Yes. Yeah, Well, yeah. When it's just you and the baby, I'm sure having the other kid helps. No, I can't be nobody. None of the listeners can see it, But I'm shaking my head. It doesn't. It doesn't help.

00;04;38;02 - 00;05;15;24
Unknown
They're just as bad. My knees take more naps and the baby does. What? I am so envious. Okay. And is it like you were, like, taking apart your bio so normal If somebody walked in your office today, what would they be hearing? As far as music goes. So this morning is my Broadway musical playlist is actually on. And so currently it's music for it's both from Your Good Man and Charlie Brown.

00;05;15;26 - 00;05;45;26
Unknown
ABC Yeah, I my musical playlist is 88 Hours and 43 minutes and so it's going strong this week. I love it. Never listened the same thing twice, huh? At least not in, you know, one workweek, right? It takes it takes a while for me to get through to get through that one. Most of my playlists are like that though because I'm I don't like to listen to the same thing.

00;05;45;26 - 00;06;12;08
Unknown
And so I just click an ad and click an ad. I'm a Spotify gal, and so I have some podcasts and stuff sprinkled in too. Nice. That's awesome. Yeah, no, music just shows for me. I wish I could do that. I don't have to see it. I don't know why, but I don't have to see it. Like, I can just listen to the characters.

00;06;12;09 - 00;06;36;15
Unknown
I'm good. I can figure out my own image for it. It pisses my husband off because he's like, You've already watched all these shows without me. I'm like, Well, you fall asleep every time we start and I'm already engaged. So it's happening. I can't not finish what's going on. Oh, yeah, I can. I can do it with some shows, like I can have shows on in the background, but if it's a show that I really love, then I feel like I'm missing out.

00;06;36;15 - 00;07;07;27
Unknown
If I'm not watching them, even though, like, they don't care on TV screen, they don't know. They don't know. Oh yeah, your phone is always watching and listening and then we'll hear you. Yeah. Okay. So your position on that in the Bush school assistant director of career programing, what does that mean? Like, what do you actually do? Yeah.

00;07;07;27 - 00;07;38;26
Unknown
So I get to do workshops and facilitations and one on one meetings and sometimes group meetings with students who are trying to become gainfully employed. And so what that really looks like for the workshop pieces is I do the required workshops for our first year who want to start to meet their requirements for the unpaid internship language immersion stipend.

00;07;38;28 - 00;08;22;06
Unknown
And so I do those four or five workshops over at CC in the fall and I get to hang out with. I'm really good chunk of our first year and we go through everything, kind of all the different pieces of finding that job and going through that job, searching. So it's and we do one on resumé building and one on interviewing and one on networking and one on LinkedIn and, and in the past they've done the person who was here before me had done some on specific types of interviews and just little things like that.

00;08;22;06 - 00;09;01;13
Unknown
And I think this year I'm trying to add in some of kind of like a mish mash of a lot of things. And so I think the first one this year is actually going to be like a career mapping and a career journey, one helping students think through what they're wanting to do and why they're wanting to do it so And the end result of their search will end up being an able to pick and choose kind of maybe not necessarily directly to a title, but the type of work that they want to be doing.

00;09;01;15 - 00;09;39;15
Unknown
And then I do some for everybody that are open to everybody. So workshops are usually a little bit smaller and we do our all kinds of things. I did a mindfulness one last semester. I did a federal resumes because federal resumes are completely different than industry resumes. I will do. I can't think about it. We did so many and with all the with all of the different ways the interviews change, we really I really try to do a few refresher ones, too.

00;09;39;15 - 00;10;08;01
Unknown
And so we'll come back and hit those. Those for under a refresher. That's like a 30 minute content, 30 minute questions where they can just fire their questions at me because I can acknowledge that not everybody is an interview nerd like me. Yeah, not me. T.J. come off progressive in her interviews, I, I interview terribly. I've never been good at it.

00;10;08;03 - 00;10;28;16
Unknown
You didn't interview bad here. Oh, I interviewed horrible. Ask Michael or Jamie. They were like, what is wrong with her? Well, they don't have as much experience as I do. I didn't think your interview was bad at all. You're very direct. You told me what you want or what you didn't want, that kind of stuff. I was going to cry when I was going to leave.

00;10;28;18 - 00;10;54;19
Unknown
That happens. It went fine. Well, it well lets do that. So out of curiosity, with all this DE&I stuff, how does it affect the students trying to get jobs like, you know, Granted State of Texas so they go anywhere else? It's probably not a big deal at this point. But, you know, with international affairs and things like that, how is this going to affect them when they're looking outside of the state for employment?

00;10;54;21 - 00;11;17;20
Unknown
Yeah, I think that what I really encourage students is if there's something that's really important to you and that should be one of your asks at the end, because you should always end interviewers with questions. And so I have a list of DEI questions that were kind of put together by one of our professional organizations that I strongly recommend students ask.

00;11;17;22 - 00;11;51;16
Unknown
And those can range anywhere from what commitments has this company or this department made to foster a safe, safe and healthy work environment. And it's how does your two something like how does your university or how does your organization define diversity? And then like what what social issues causes your causes? Does your organization support? And so I strongly encourage students to ask the questions that they want answers to.

00;11;51;16 - 00;12;23;09
Unknown
You want to know about the diversity initiatives that are happening within a department that you're trying to go to. You should absolutely ask that at the end of your interview because it's it's important to you. And that's hopefully one of the things and one of the things it's pulling in to your decision making. And so then you kind of have to then they, as the person who's applying, has to really, really listen because an interview should never just be what the person being interviewed.

00;12;23;09 - 00;13;01;02
Unknown
It should be the person being interviewed, but also the company or the whoever you're talking to is being interviewed as well to make sure it's the right fit. And if and so I, I strongly recommend asking those DEI questions about something that's important to you. And whenever students are looking at kind of social change and that public service mindset, it's something that usually comes up and so I usually recommend students to have at least one or two questions about that and kind of in their back pocket.

00;13;01;04 - 00;13;37;05
Unknown
Yeah, just curious, because T.J. and I were talking yesterday kind of about the climate of some of this and then other campuses in Texas that are not public institutions, that are private schools and how that's going to affect people. And, you know, when you work in the curriculum and you're teaching these classes, like I get not being so D E and I heavy, but I, I mean, most of all the students that are going to be in public service or international affairs and all of that includes diversity to some degree that it so it's it's different.

00;13;37;05 - 00;14;09;24
Unknown
And so it's I worked at private institutions and at public institutions say my masters at a private institution. And it's the I don't think the questions change. I'm sorry. I think it's giving students the framework to be able to think through how to ask the questions that really matter. I, I think that the way that there things are shifting, a lot of people are very hurt by myself included.

00;14;09;24 - 00;14;41;09
Unknown
And I think I think it's something that you just have to be teaching students, all students, all thinkers, all ages to really have a framework, to be thinking through the processes that are being I can't think of another word besides forced on them. And so I think that's really where education comes in. I was raised by two teachers.

00;14;41;09 - 00;15;10;24
Unknown
Both my parents are teachers, and so I'm kind of a big fan of that lifelong learning stuff. And so I think really whenever you have policies that are kind of acting in a way that you don't necessarily agree with, I think that you need to be able to think through those policies and think through kind of what is happening with them and what will be impacted by them.

00;15;11;00 - 00;15;37;14
Unknown
And then I think if you're in the space like the Bush school, where you're hoping to go into policy making, writing or international affairs, then you have to know like the implications of that policy and be able to think about what you would do differently or how you would be advising somebody differently. Because we have students who are wanting to go into that advisory role, that consultancy role.

00;15;37;22 - 00;16;10;08
Unknown
And so I think I'm hopeful that if any good comes out of this, it's that our students can learn how to think through acting with integrity within a policy that they may not agree with. That's a tough spot for them to be in. It's really. Is it really? Yeah. Yeah. It's it's really, really a tough spot. Yeah, it's really, really a tough spot.

00;16;10;10 - 00;16;44;13
Unknown
And I have the professionalism to be in a spot like that trying to do Michael's course. Yeah. No, my face generally tells you what I think. And so that's why, that's, that's why we're just doing voice recording and. Yeah, not just you. It's all of us. I like that about, you know, the only person that ever keeps it together around here with their facial expressions is Jamie.

00;16;44;15 - 00;17;10;23
Unknown
Michael definitely doesn't either. Yeah, Brielle, Maybe a little bit Eh well Yeah, because she probably took notes from the positivity one on one book. She has so much energy and is like, It's been a really nice change and a breath of fresh air to have someone who's so upbeat and happy and just all the time because I am not that way.

00;17;10;29 - 00;17;44;01
Unknown
TJ is not that way. Jamie used to be that way into all this crap with her foot. But yeah, it's, sucks but She's younger, so she's still a little bit naive. So we haven't broken her spirit yet. Jaded like the rest of Give it time. Yeah. So I love all of the classes that career services has done. And even, you know, the ones that you facilitated last semester are student workers.

00;17;44;01 - 00;18;07;27
Unknown
Like, we love putting them in there, like, Hey, go learn something like, Yeah, the learn to your brand yourself that one of the best. Like in this day and age, it's all about branding yourself. It's about what you put on your LinkedIn. If you're going like that route of professionalism, even on your social media accounts, like it's what's out there, it's what people can find.

00;18;07;27 - 00;18;45;23
Unknown
It's like, you know, if I Google your name, what pictures are going to come up? If you Google Sarah's name, there's going to be like 42 pictures of her with different hair colors, like, you know, it's it's what you can find. And especially with everything being so easily accessible way, I think nothing is safe. So especially if you're going into like government, anything like that, like you've got to be very aware of your branding. I’ve thought about doing that as like one of the workshops is one of the smaller ones.

00;18;45;25 - 00;19;15;25
Unknown
What personal branding looks like and going through that. Because one of the things about like an I think it's a my networking one is that if you're not managing your image, somebody is managing it for you, which is 1,000% true, because you are the only person who can you should be who should be controlling that. Right? And so I usually ask the question, how many of you have personal assistants who are running your social media?

00;19;16;01 - 00;19;54;08
Unknown
So far I haven't gotten anybody who's like, that's me. Jamie runs hours. And so it's it's different, right? And so it's it's being aware of what that looks like and it's giving kind of I tell students it's 1,000% okay to deny something like that your friend has recommended you for on LinkedIn. If it's not professional and just sometimes people have those friends who go in and they're like, I'm going to recognize this person for I don't know, hooliganism, whatever.

00;19;54;11 - 00;20;23;29
Unknown
And then you have a skill list on your professional LinkedIn that says hooliganism, like, that's not it. And so you can completely do that. And I was like, once you've reached that stage where you're trying to be a professional and you're trying to become gainfully employed, sometimes you really just need to do an edit, a hard edit of your social media and pull some of that stuff back.

00;20;24;02 - 00;20;51;20
Unknown
Yeah, well, and even when people can see like your friends lists or things like that or people leave associated with like, all right, well, maybe they're not a good person, but now you're going to be judged by somebody that you might barely know. Exactly, Yeah, it's it's a lot. And with the AI and the stuff that AI can do and create, oh, it's mind bogglingly terrifying.

00;20;51;22 - 00;21;15;08
Unknown
While the fact that they don't realize that technology, while it is a helpful thing for quick answers or, you know, help when you need it, it's I don't know. I think I was telling T.J. the other day, I was like, you know, this is why technology we should state in the eighties, why the models and it is that you want dial up Internet.

00;21;15;10 - 00;21;38;05
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. There's just no room for any of that. It's just it's crazy to think the stuff that people put out there that you look at them and go, why would you even want that out there? You know, like, like tied to your name? Yes. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, I don't even have Facebook anymore. I haven't for years.

00;21;38;06 - 00;22;04;18
Unknown
The only thing I have is Instagram is a private account. I do have LinkedIn, but I hardly ever get on it. im going to tag you for hooliganism, Yeah, yeah. I mean, honestly, if someone had that as a skill, I might actually interview them. They fit right in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is scary. I'm a brag on myself for a minute and I'll give me an hour and a half to find all of the information on a minor.

00;22;04;20 - 00;22;34;13
Unknown
It was like not doing things right hour and a half. That's all it took me. you’re our APCC PI I but I'm just saying like, you know, my friend needed to find her parents to get in contact with them. I was like, I gotcha. That's all it it yeah it's and it would have been sooner if I didn't have a kid like. Had to put him down for a nap, like my birthday, Like, you take a picture and I'm like, Okay, let's dissect this picture.

00;22;34;13 - 00;23;01;29
Unknown
Like, what's all in here when you can do that for anything, whether it's an adult or it is, the Internet is scary. I won't let Cameron have a phone or, he doesnt need to call or have social media. He doesn't need any of that. Like, no. Yeah, okay. Keegan, He's responsible. My child is not. So the thing that worries me about Keegan is Keegan So this is my oldest is Cameron's age, and Keegan has a phone because he stays at home.

00;23;01;29 - 00;23;21;18
Unknown
Sometimes when I'm not there and I come to work. Now, his dad, they just had a new baby in June, and so his step mom stays at home and so he's home with someone. So I get him a phone and I tell him, this is not for Internet searching, this is not for YouTube videos. This is not for anything outside of texting call.

00;23;21;20 - 00;23;41;12
Unknown
And I said, You better answer this. Ding thing when I call or text you. So he sends me. It was like a week ago. He sends me a video that my niece made that was on YouTube and my brother is a teacher and my brother was anti social everything technology. And I'm like, they've had phones for a while.

00;23;41;14 - 00;23;58;17
Unknown
And when he sent me the video I watched, it was like a, I don't know, minute and a half video of their cat. And of course it takes a long time to make all those things. And I asked Keegan, I said, like, when did Maisie start doing this? And he said, So that's my niece and my nephew, Asher.

00;23;58;20 - 00;24;21;19
Unknown
He says, Well, they they're doing a contest on who can get the most views on their YouTube video. And I'm like, No, no, the amount of predators out there, no, like, I even have Keegan's X box on lockdown. It took us forever to figure out how to connect him on cameron because I had so many locked down so many settings on it so nobody could talk to him or message him or anything like that.

00;24;21;22 - 00;24;53;03
Unknown
Yeah, I can't. It's terrifying. Well, I watched a video the other day and they it was somebody who was making trying to make the point of protecting your children and protecting your children's future by with what you post about them online. And they were able to using A.I., they were able to take a photograph of like a seven year old and age period, like do the age progression thing.

00;24;53;05 - 00;25;19;22
Unknown
So she so she looked like she was 20 and her twenties and they were able to do her voice and then make a video about her talking about the dangers of what happens whenever you introduce your children in that sphere. Because if you don't have it locked down, sometimes, even if you do have it locked down, yeah, they get everybody who can access it and who can do awful, awful things.

00;25;19;24 - 00;25;47;06
Unknown
Yeah. And it was and so I was just sitting there. Mind boggled the whole time because it's just so scary and it's. And it's crazy. Yeah, it really is. Makes me sad. The future for our children is so different than what ours was, is. So I'm, I'm very glad that I had like a BlackBerry and it was the best day ever.

00;25;47;08 - 00;26;17;22
Unknown
I miss Blackberries. Oh, my gosh. How was the teen nine where you're trying to, like, push the button so many times to get the right letter or the snake? I'm a snake. It was solid. My Nokia brick. It was solid. Literally, that Nokia brick and the BlackBerry. Oh, yeah. All right. How long have you worked at the Bush school?

00;26;17;24 - 00;26;48;03
Unknown
So today is actually 11 months. Wow. Now I have a thing on my calendar that's like celebrate. Today is your anniversary because I'm really excited to come back. I worked here previously in 2016 and I loved it. But another position kind of came open and so I left and then I came back as quickly as I could. But yes, I've been here almost a year, which is exciting.

00;26;48;06 - 00;27;22;13
Unknown
People really do become lifers over here. It's true. Yeah. What was your main draw with the school? Oh, this is going to be ridiculous. 41 is my favorite president, and he's been my favorite president since I was like eight. And I can fully acknowledge that not everybody has a favorite president. I am the weirdo who carries around a copy of the United States Constitution in my purse is the little mini one.

00;27;22;13 - 00;28;00;25
Unknown
And it's red. Yeah, we have one. Yeah, it's my favorite. Yep. You see this at home, But I'm showing them copy of my constitution to safe for my purse. And so I just. I really. I love working. Did I just. I'm a big fan. And so while I was a while I was a student of entering my undergrad, I had friends who came through and who were able to be here with him while he was while he and Barbara were here all the time.

00;28;00;28 - 00;28;42;22
Unknown
And so and they just had really good experiences. And then whenever I came back, it was the people I just kept meeting awesome people, interacting with incredible students. And I was in OEE And so we have students who are nontraditional, and nontraditional students are genuinely some of my favorite humans on the planet. And because of the wealth of knowledge and experiences that they bring into a higher education sphere, where we where we have a tendency to kind of dig in to that academic world and not necessarily the practical world.

00;28;42;22 - 00;29;20;06
Unknown
And I think our nontraditional our nontraditional students do an incredible job at kind of bringing it back to that whenever they're allowed to be or encouraged to be in that space. And so I, I really loved working with our students, and that was that was my main draw. That's one of the things that I feel like this day and age, I mean, obviously it's going to depend on which degree program you go into, but I don't feel like there's enough practice for students when you're in a degree to be able to apply it once you graduate.

00;29;20;10 - 00;29;42;26
Unknown
There's not enough places that support that additional education. From a practical standpoint, I mean, even for myself, like TJ makes fun of my degree all the time. You know, I went to liberal arts school was an art major. I don't use my degree, but I also I've benefited a lot from the fact that I was at a small school, so I knew my professors and they knew me.

00;29;42;29 - 00;30;01;02
Unknown
And so that was really, really helpful because most of them had alternative jobs also with being a full time professor and it was so helpful. But now I look at some of the students nowadays, I mean, even our students that we hired and we're trying to help them when they graduate, it's like, what is your department doing for you?

00;30;01;02 - 00;30;26;10
Unknown
Your department's not helping this. You don't have an advisor to help you with this. Like, I don't have a problem. I'd rather you have education before you leave. But it's concerning because even some of them can't even write a simple email. And I'm just like, I understand. I don't. Yeah, it's it's hard. So in my previous life, because I worked in higher education for about ten years, I actually started as an academic advisor.

00;30;26;10 - 00;30;53;16
Unknown
I was my own graduate academic advisor. I was a great student. And so I I've been in academic advising for ever. I don't want do the math. And so that's and one of the things that I always encourage my students was those high impact experiences, like an internship, like an externship, a study abroad, anything that can get them kind of out of the classroom and into that experience.

00;30;53;18 - 00;31;22;09
Unknown
And so I think with the internship and the language immersion for our two Masters program through required and so they have to have to do either well, I think they have to do the internship, and I can either do an internship or language immersion. But I think that those are so beneficial for our students because you really can't have my viewpoint on internships is there are two ways that they can be successful.

00;31;22;09 - 00;31;40;05
Unknown
One is you go in and you love it and it confirms everything and you're like, This is where I want to be. And the other way to be successful is to go in and completely hate it. And no, I never want to do this again. Like I had a student who, you know, his minor was horticulture. My mind was horticulture.

00;31;40;05 - 00;32;04;24
Unknown
We love plants. And he went to a very large nursery. I won't say the name, but it's large. And he came back after his it was like a six week internship and he came back and he was like, Ashley, I hated it. I hated that. I was like, okay. And he was like, like I'd never want to do it again.

00;32;04;24 - 00;32;21;06
Unknown
And I was like, I understand that. What did you not like about it? What was it like? What were this? What was that? And he was like. And so we talked. We were able to talk through why that wasn't the right place for him. He didn't hate plants He actually opened up his unearths great nursery landscape business. And so he loves it.

00;32;21;12 - 00;32;45;04
Unknown
But he like working at the nursery and being around the people wasn't for him and doing like the sales wasn't for him. And that's all his internship was with like a little bit of like marketing sprinkled in. And so that just wasn't what he wanted to do. But it was still successful because then he didn't try to become a manager at a nursery landscape place, right?

00;32;45;07 - 00;33;05;00
Unknown
And so that's generally the only way to fail at an internship is to not show up and to try to not learn. Right. Because you should be learning like you should be learning professionalism, you should be learning all those almost intangible things at an internship, right? You should be learning how to show up. You should be learning how to clock in.

00;33;05;00 - 00;33;32;00
Unknown
You should be learning how to listen to somebody like a boss and communicating with your bosses. So they're little pieces that are kind of should be embedded into internships that make them successful, right? Yeah. Yeah. I was laughing because I always we always tell our students after they've done even a student worker or an intern, we always tell them you won't find it in the work environment like this will ruin you.

00;33;32;00 - 00;33;59;22
Unknown
Yeah, because we all are very, very we all have very strong feelings towards educating and teaching. All of us enjoy doing it. All of us enjoy building those relationships with our students. And so we try to get them the most out of their experience here. But yeah, we've I've told, we've told several, I'm sure, TJ has at least all of them that have graduated that she's supervised, that you won't find a work environment like this, like we allow you to make mistakes.

00;33;59;22 - 00;34;26;17
Unknown
We support the mistakes that you make, figure out solutions. We have fun while doing it. You know, it's based on your mental health. Like if you're getting burnt out and you need some time, you've just got to come and talk and we will do whatever we can to accommodate like, yeah, it's ruin you because we will set your expectations of future jobs for so high no one else will ever be able to meet that.

00;34;26;19 - 00;34;56;03
Unknown
But to have that, that's like. That's so good, right? That's that's so good for people have that positive experience because then whenever they're going into an interview question or an interview and at the end they can ask questions that are geared towards how do you as employers protect my mental health, right? How do you as employers, one of my favorite questions to ask is how does your company how does your whatever how do you celebrate wins?

00;34;56;05 - 00;35;21;23
Unknown
Because I think it really lends itself to how important your people are whenever you ask that question. And so I don't think it's ruining somebody to come in and work in an incredible work environment. And I think it's kind of setting the bar that students should feel is necessary to set if their mental health is a priority for them, which should be I.

00;35;21;25 - 00;35;45;28
Unknown
And so I think even in a situation like that, like I think that if you go into a situation and it's incredible, you want to try to find a situation that's like that. So then you know, the questions that you want to ask to be sure, and usually you can tell about like I have a place during the interview and because like I said, interviews are both way there are two way street.

00;35;45;28 - 00;36;08;28
Unknown
You're interviewing them as much as they're interviewing you. And if the vibe is off run. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Well, I, I met with our marketing or he's graduate or marketing intern this summer to go over like his first interview. And I told him, I said, you know, these are all great questions. I think you have you know, you're very prepared for this.

00;36;08;28 - 00;36;32;14
Unknown
I said, But when you leave, the one piece of advice I can give you that I've always done for myself is I trust my gut. And if my gut tells me, no, something's off putting. I don't know what it is. I can't pinpoint it, but something doesn't feel right. Don't do it, you know? And he was applying for, excuse me, a marketing position that I think there was like four or five positions they were trying to fill.

00;36;32;16 - 00;36;53;08
Unknown
And so they wanted quick answers like right away. And I was like, don't I mean, will you choose whatever you want? But I wouldn't take it. Yeah. And when he called me about it, I told him the same thing. I said, If your gut like if you feel funny about it, don't do it. And then it turns out there was actually like a switcheroo in sales.

00;36;53;10 - 00;37;23;02
Unknown
He applied for the social media marketing manager or whatever, and then they turned around, interviewed him for a sales position, and then wanted like an immediate answer of like when you start shooting red flags. Red flag. Yeah, yeah. Now it's really, it's so shady. It's like ponchos like that, right? Sometimes they just raise that little red flag. Yeah.

00;37;23;04 - 00;37;49;15
Unknown
And that's, wait where are you from? What? Where are you from? I'm north of Austin. We lived in, like, Georgetown area, but They have Ponchos' up there too. But there. No they're in San Antonio. I used to go to San Anton for livestock shows, and so I. Right. All Oh, very few people. Not very few, but it's very a certain type of person who's like ponchos.

00;37;49;17 - 00;38;15;20
Unknown
Yeah, there's one still in my old house in Houston. Oh they love it. So anyways, that. But yeah, no, it's absolutely about reading the vibe during that interview and you can tell, oh, at the end if they're like, we need a decision by tomorrow. Or like when a decision for you to leave here thinks that's a, that's a lot.

00;38;15;22 - 00;38;35;16
Unknown
And so it's, it's trying to understand like what you want out of them and so it's gosh, even if you don't trust your gut, I think if you can make notes and think if they can make notes and they can think through the questions that were asked, I'd be like, man, why did they ask me about this? Or why?

00;38;35;16 - 00;38;55;28
Unknown
Why did they phrase why was that phrased like that? And it's like, I know I've had no job interviews where I left and I was like and I took the job and then I was miserable, right? And so and that happens. And but I've also had hand job interviews where I was like, Oh, and I didn't. And I'm so thankful.

00;38;56;01 - 00;39;21;01
Unknown
Right? And so it's it's like you're in your mind and your gut is like, maybe, maybe don't do that. And my favorite is when you ask about the work environment and we're like a family and I'm like, you know, my family not know this, that's a red flag. That's that is so toxic. So it was funny when he brought that up.

00;39;21;01 - 00;39;42;23
Unknown
And then you two talked about it, and then I saw this thing on Instagram about it. Like, of course, next day, because my phone's listening. I started laughing because I was like, I mean, we kind of refer to ourselves like that sometimes, but it's mostly because we're a small department and in the sense it's not like I have actually used that term.

00;39;42;23 - 00;39;59;27
Unknown
But explain what I mean. Like it's more of a we take an interest in each other's personal lives. We're very concerned about people's mental health and things like that. Not like we bicker back and forth and someone may stop speaking to each other for years on end like we guilt trip to get you to do the things like, you know.

00;40;00;00 - 00;40;21;13
Unknown
Yeah, it's that yeah, it's the people. We're like the family that you get to choose, right? Oh, my God. They're family. There's a show and they call it the Ramble. I think of entire I'm your mother. Yeah. And they call it like the family. And it's the friends and family. Maybe that. I don't know. It might not be.

00;40;21;15 - 00;40;44;26
Unknown
I might not be allowed to say this. Your name might not even be them, but they called it a family. And I was like, That's how I would prefer to think about it, because it's the family that you choose because you're friends, right? Less of the toxicity. Toxicity? Yeah. Guilt stuff that happens sometimes and in those family environments.

00;40;45;01 - 00;41;11;13
Unknown
And there's a difference between having like camaraderie and support and things like that that are wonderful and being guilted into going to one side's Christmas and not the other. Because, you know, the lady is dying, you got to go see him. He is about to get on a soapbox, so you get it under wraps. All right. And none of my family listens to our podcast.

00;41;11;13 - 00;41;37;00
Unknown
It's like you never know. You might get a call from your grandma one day. Yeah. Yeah. You talk about how she shouldn't have any white great grandchildren. Okay, so we got to get everyone this question, but she got to give an answer that's not about the students. If you just get the last one. What's her favorite part about her position?

00;41;37;03 - 00;42;23;19
Unknown
That's what I'm about to ask. She can't talk about students That's up here. They all say it's the students. Yeah. What is your favorite part of your position and not the students? Yeah, it's like I said earlier, like I'm a training and development nerd. I love training and development. And so I think getting to have conversations with everyone, everyone about the importance of that, learning and being able to be in a place where that's encouraged more to encourage for staff to go to professional development and get certifications and continue their education.

00;42;23;21 - 00;42;55;19
Unknown
And we are where we are faculty who are not just teaching how to run nonprofits, but they run nonprofits. And so I think that's genuinely my favorite. That's my favorite thing about it, is that, yes, I love the students, I love teaching the students, but I also love that I've had staff come to me and ask me questions about how to tailor their resumes and how to change up their LinkedIn stuff and how to prepare for an interview.

00;42;55;21 - 00;43;28;06
Unknown
Right? I love that. And I think that that's because it's embedded in what the Bush school is. And so my love of professional professional development and training and development really lends itself to having those conversations. And so I love this. This position is that it's it's having those conversations with all the stakeholders. You want to ask me, anybody could stop me in the hall and be like, Hey, I'm trying to how do I ask this question?

00;43;28;13 - 00;43;48;26
Unknown
And I like to think through, let's figure out how to ask a question, right? Let's figure out how to write this position description. Let's figure out how to and how to do things. Because I'm yeah, because I like trying to figure things out, which is another thing that's my favorite. And here because my, like, my top strength is restorative.

00;43;48;26 - 00;44;18;12
Unknown
And so it's problems, problem solving, problem solving and higher education is nothing but problems. And so if we can we can be working. If I can work towards solving problems and trying to think around new ways to get information to people, we love it. Yeah, I'm right there with you. I'm big on professional development. I love it. I don't want them to feel like they're pigeonholed.

00;44;18;14 - 00;44;34;12
Unknown
And I told them all like, You want to stay for a year, that's fine. I'll help you move on to the next step in your career. If you. There's no guilt when someone leaves, at least I hope they don't feel that way. I try very hard to support what people want to do because not everybody wants to do this for a living.

00;44;34;18 - 00;44;51;26
Unknown
And when they start doing it, it may not be the side of our industry they want to be a part of, but that's not for me to hold against them. You know, I don't want to stop anyone from growing from where they are now. We all change and evolve over the years, so those interests will change and evolve as well.

00;44;51;29 - 00;45;19;01
Unknown
So powerful and so incredible. So if nobody is, thank you for being that kind of employer, then I'll thank you for that, because not everybody is like that. And I think and I've had situations my supervisor when I was here in 2016 is incredible. She's one of my favorite humans on the planet, actually, and she is the she's the person who I talk to the longest about making my job change.

00;45;19;03 - 00;45;51;12
Unknown
And she was the person who I was able to talk through what that looked like and that that situation and how and what I needed out of a position and what and she was my supervisor. And so I've seen that and I felt how empowering that was and how supported that made me feel. And so I think that if you can get that an employer never you'll you'll never lose that person as a cheerleader and as a human who always on your side.

00;45;51;14 - 00;46;27;29
Unknown
And so if nobody's thanked you having that kind of supervisor and employer, I'll thank you for them because it's we love that. I appreciate that. I mean, I couldn't do any of this without any of them. So, you know, I mean, I'm not a one woman ship. And, you know, sometimes I wonder if it's the no, we're not to talk about this, but sometimes I wonder if it's about the difference in gender, because, you know, women are more empathetic to things and you can be a strong woman and be empathetic and still have the boundaries and not punish or enforce things on people working through the problem together.

00;46;28;01 - 00;46;48;24
Unknown
You know, I know some empathetic men. You know, there's both my brothers are that way, but they were also raised by my mom. So it's I know you can learn these things, but a lot of it comes back from even my own work experience and the environments that I was in that I am just like, Nope, I'm not going to be that person now.

00;46;48;26 - 00;47;13;13
Unknown
And I think it's that's why it's important. Like you can't I keep going back to it Like you can't not trust your gut whenever you're talking to people about trying to get a job. Yeah. Because once you've had those horrible toxic situations that just like, wreck your life. Yeah. Then you have one. That's awesome. You're like, You can be it.

00;47;13;13 - 00;47;41;26
Unknown
You're able to sit back and be like, Wow, that was I know the differences. I know the differences. Do I want everybody to everybody to never have a toxic, horrible work experience? Yes, absolutely. I would recommend not having that. But that's not really realistic. And so I think it's trying to make sure that we have enough people who kind of approach it from that way of I'm going to be supportive of the decisions that they make.

00;47;41;26 - 00;48;00;20
Unknown
I'm going to do this. I'm I'm I'm going to look after their mental health. I love that I'm going to ask another OK if they're having family issues. I'm going to ask you, you know what I mean? Like just caring. It's just it's basically just being a decent human being while being in a supervisory role. Yeah, very true.

00;48;00;23 - 00;48;18;12
Unknown
Thanks for joining us on Espresso Shot. today I would like to thank our guest, Ashley, for joining us and hopefully we'll get to see and work with her more. Join us on our next episode. Bye bye.