173 Rethinking Your Relationship with Alcohol with Caroline Holke

Transcript

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So interesting.

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And whether you enter the world of self-development through looking at your drinking, or some people it's diet, or some people it's like, you know, having a better organizational system, or whatever it is, you know, when we start to get those successes, particularly as adults, we start to get those successes.

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I know, for me anyway.

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I looked back and I was like, well, at one point I thought that was impossible and it turns out I was wrong there.

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What else am I wrong about?

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Well, hello and welcome to Connect, inspire, create.

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I'm your host, carol Clegg, a progress and mindset business coach, here to help you thrive and flourish and turn those challenges into opportunities for growth.

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This podcast is all about giving you your weekly dose of practical strategies, motivation and insightful conversations designed to boost your business skills, personal growth and happiness.

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So, whether you're looking to find balance, say goodbye to procrastination or just in need of a friendly nudge towards your goals, remember we're all on this journey together.

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Well, welcome everybody, and thank you for being here to listen to the show today.

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I want to start off with just a little snippet that I took off my guest's website.

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People everywhere are rethinking their drinking.

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Perhaps that resonates with you.

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Newsweek declared that Gen Z is abandoning alcohol, citing that 64% over 21 have not consumed alcohol in the last six months and that's a June 2024 statistic, pretty current.

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And then manufacturers are certainly responding to this with far more offers of NA or lower alcohol offerings, and the retail stores are seeing this that these options are selling.

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And with my own personal little snippet that I wanted to add in here, I recently discovered a fabulous IPA beer made by the Athletic Brewing Company and not a plug for them, not being paid for this but discovered them via an Instagram post and I thought, oh well, I have to order this online.

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It's the only way to get it.

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It was rather expensive the shipping.

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And then I was thrilled to discover that Trader Joe's actually carries it and then, along with that, finding that even Guinness now offers an NA version.

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So definitely seeing that trend changing.

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But my guest today, Caroline Holtay, helps women who have decided to drink less, or perhaps not at all, and don't resonate with the AA alternative, but want to continue with their self-development and work within a community of like-minded women.

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So, Caroline, welcome.

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Thank you for being here today.

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Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

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I'm really looking forward to this conversation, thank you.

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That's very much top of mind, it seems, for a lot of people.

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So I think this is going to be a very valuable conversation to have and just to share some inspiration for others that are sitting in this space at the moment.

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So I'd love to just tell my listeners a little bit about your background.

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Perfect, all right.

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So caroline holker comes from a background of corporate brand marketing for over 20 years at a fortune 100 company, and caroline shares she was able to check a lot of those boxes successful career, master's degree, happily married, mom of two.

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But you weren't happy until you started changing your drinking, and I love this.

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Last hangover, august 2016 yeah, by the way, is back yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, it was a doozy wow, and you get you there.

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You mentioned that you started working with a coach.

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Yes, and I think that's often our starting point is, you know, we realize we need somebody to journey with us and we, in turn, want to pass that gift on yeah, absolutely, absolutely it was.

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It was so fantastic for me.

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Um, and then I think what is so, so interesting and whether you enter the world of self-development through looking at your drinking, or some people it's diet, or some people it's like, you know, having a better organizational system or whatever it is, you know, when we start to get those successes, particularly as adults, we start to get those successes.

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I know, for me anyway.

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I looked back and I was like, well, at one point I thought that was impossible and it turns out I was wrong there.

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What else am I wrong about?

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You know?

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It's just it's.

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It's just it opens your mind to just exploring a whole, a whole lot more things and you've moved into your coaching practice which just focuses, as you say, on the living more phase.

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Yeah, teaching women how to deal with their stress in healthier ways, because often it is, it's just a coping mechanism.

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We cannot think of an alternative and we don't think we can move and we sometimes don't have enough reason to move.

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So that's another whole space to explore to get that movement going.

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But before we dig into all our topics related to alcohol and managing stress and redefining things like relaxation, I want to ask you just a fun question, if I may.

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Yeah, sure, all right.

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So if you could instantly master any skill or hobby and not related to what you do, what would it be and why would you choose that?

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yeah, okay, okay.

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So I love crochet, um, but I do it very sporadically.

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So if I could, just instantly, if I had the Mary the fairy godmother wand and somebody could like instill within me how to read these um patterns and know how to I don't know figure out how to count them in a way, I don't know, I would love that skill, that would be amazing.

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That sounds so relaxing and peaceful.

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Yeah, there's.

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Often, you know, you don't do something because there's this big learning curve or it just doesn't come together fast enough.

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Who knows, maybe one day you'll just wake up and you'll be crocheting away and get it all together.

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Yeah, yeah, that would be fun.

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But well, while you're talking about crocheting and I'm thinking, you know, relaxation, um, let's look at redefining what we think about this relaxation and stress relief, because I think many people associate alcohol with unwinding and relaxation.

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Yes, so just kind of exploring how could we start to shift this mindset and think that hang on a minute there are some other ways to manage stress that generally can nurture our well-being.

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Right, right, okay.

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So this is such a great one because that is a common belief that it does help us relax.

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And I'll give you for the first 20 minutes it does actually.

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It will help relax the system for the first 20 minutes and then, after that point, then actually it spikes our cortisol level.

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So if you look at it scientifically, it's actually increasing stress, which is why a lot of times we'll wake up at like three o'clock in the morning and wonder why did I have that extra glass, or why can't I sleep?

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And you start the brain starts spinning.

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So if you look at it just from, you know, in a in a scientific manner, if you take your cortisol levels, your cortisol levels are actually increased by drinking.

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So fascinating, isn't it?

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Like there's this whole myth that it helps you relax.

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When you look at it and you pull back and look at a bigger picture, it's actually not helping you relax.

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It's increasing your your stress hormones.

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It's increasing your anxiety level.

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People talk about hangxiety.

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I mean it's a thing.

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Wow, yeah.

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So this shifting your mind, you come with just some knowledge, some education behind you know what is this all about and just digging a little deeper.

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And then, of course, there's this whole ripple effect, Because you speak about not necessarily telling everybody they have to give up alcohol, and we have these other options that we mentioned the NA, the less alcohol, or just reducing, but obviously I think of physical health, so I think of the sugar content and the weight content.

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But what are some other unexpected benefits that you have found while journeying with your clients or taking yourself through the process and now working with clients?

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Found while journeying with your clients or taking yourself through the process and now with clients, what have they experienced?

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Um, this kind of ripple effect when they've started reducing their alcohol intake, right, well, I mean it.

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The list is goes on for pages.

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Um, I'm going to start with another myth, myth buster, which is that people think that it helps them sleep, and so I, you know, you hear that a lot.

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It helps me fall asleep at night, whatever.

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But if you actually look at data, if you wear a Fitbit or an Apple watch or something like that, you'll actually look at the data.

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The data will tell you that you have more fitful sleep after you've been drinking, and I really like to go to that.

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I like to go to I mean, I'm a mindset coach primarily, and you know, just understanding that.

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Yeah, of course, you believe this stuff because everybody will reinforce it, and your girlfriends are going to tell you this, and your mom and your sister and everybody else.

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Everybody agrees, everybody thinks that this is true.

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But if you look at your own data, like what, what's it doing for you?

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And then start to you know, just even let just a little bit of light in, start easing off of that a little bit.

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It's like, oh well, maybe that isn't really helpful.

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It's funny because, as you say, that it's sometimes just testing the waters ourselves and going, okay, let's just try this on for size.

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If you're telling me this is, you know, not helping me sleep and it's not really helping me de-stress, as you say, only for the first 20 minutes yeah what would this look like?

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um and it's funny because I remember a little while back, before we can come back to this this ripple effect, but even just the suggestion of, well, have a glass of water have something else perhaps set a timer for 20 minutes or do something to steer you away from that, because, likewise, as a mindset coach, we need to deal with some of these things and distract ourselves and then suddenly realize the benefit right of going.

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Okay, so maybe there's one less glass of wine this evening, yeah, yeah, and then you can, you know, test.

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Well, did I sleep better?

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right right, um, but I'm thinking, within this ripple effect of basically drinking less, that there's got to be some other impact on the areas, even just like relationships oh, relationships are huge.

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Yes, of course.

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Um, that is really kind of the first thing that we we work on in my community, um, and and it's relationships with other people, because, you know, a lot of time we've got either perfectionist tendencies, which is really just we're trying to outrun ourselves.

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You know, perfectionism is a nice way to phrase.

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I remember when I was first interviewing for jobs right out of college like that's what you were supposed to tell the interviewer my flaw is I'm a perfectionist you know which is actually if you look at it under the hood, that's just.

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I'm afraid of what I'm going to tell myself if I don't get it perfectly.

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Right, there's no human factor in this.

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I'm just this robot that's going to deliver.

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Well, and what I really don't, honestly, what I really don't like about not being right is what I'm going to tell myself.

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You know, because an athlete they have to try things a million different times or a scientist, or if you're in innovation and in business or in any other like, we have to be okay with ourselves and that really has to do with relationship with itself.

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Yes, so that's so critically important.

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So we talk about relationships with other people.

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How am I interpreting what this person is saying?

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You know?

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What am I making this mean?

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What are these words?

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And you know, when we look at, our perspective is only our perspective.

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If we know that it's causing us suffering, then maybe there's another way to look at this.

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And it's and, believe me, it sounds so simple on paper and this is one of those things that's.

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It's really helpful to have another set of eyes helping you yeah, yeah and I could, just as you say that, not only having the other set of eyes, how important this is, to do this a with a coach and then be in community.

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Yeah, other people walking this road, exploring, wanting to learn um, so important right right, and I think that so often, you know, it's ironic that as we become more community, connected with all of our devices and all this other kind of stuff, we still feel very alone, right, we still end up feeling like nobody really understands me.

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And so when we're in community and you can hear somebody else talking about something that you know, maybe some of the, maybe some of the details are a little bit different, but the kernel of it is something that I can very much relate to.

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I feel seen and oh yeah, by the way, I didn't even realize that I can very much relate to.

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I feel seen and oh yeah, by the way, I didn't even realize that I was struggling with that until she brought it up, and, and you know what, it's always easier to hear it from somebody else than it is like when we're under the spotlight.

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Absolutely.

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And I know I mean obviously we talk about community now, so let's sort of move that from.

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You know, a lot of us are still meeting online, having you know community that we create, whether that be in a space like LinkedIn or wherever else.

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But then you've got the social gatherings or wherever else.

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But then you've got the social gatherings, be that family, be that.

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You know, especially now as we move into this end of the year and gathering together with lots of people and you know I come from South Africa.

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The norm in South Africa is huge around a drinking scenario.

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I mean you go to a barbecue, which we call a braai, and it's always have one more.

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I mean you think how dangerous this is.

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Have one more for the road.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're not letting somebody go.

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You need to have one more.

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You have one more.

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So when we look at these social gatherings and the drinking is so much part of it, how can someone begin to navigate this in a different way but with confidence?

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And, you know, do their family and friends need to know that they're not drinking or can they step up and talk about it?

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Yeah, that is such a great question and it's so unique to the individual and the circumstance.

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So, for example, some people will get really fired up by announcing they've got a goal and so they put it out there and they're like I am totally going to do this.

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Some people like it goes the opposite.

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They're like I don't want anybody to know, I don't want you know, I want to do this privately and then announce, you know, and so that's very unique.

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So I can't say that there's one size fits all in terms of how I would recommend you know you go about that.

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But that's something that we can certainly uncover and that'll have to do with how they feel.

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You know, just the idea of making the big pronouncement and like having it all out there, does that excite you or does that terrify you?

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That's a sign, right, I mean.

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And also to distinguish sometimes when we have stretchy goals we get a little scared, but sometimes stretchy goals are what we need.

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You know, that doesn't necessarily mean that this is not for me.

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So there's that's that takes a little kind of teasing apart between those two Is am I a little nervous about doing this because I, you know, this is going to stretch me in a good way or is this just like?

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Not for me.

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So anyway, that's.

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There's no one size fits all regarding how to manage that.

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I do personally believe that in general, it's good to keep the routine.

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You know, if you've got a routine of coming home at night and like that cocktail marks the end of your workday and into your family evening time, keep the routine.

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Get the fancy drink glass out and put whatever in a product or water, fancy water, whatever, you know, whatever that is.

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But that's that ritual right there is serving a different purpose, you know, and I feel like those kinds of things are important.

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Same thing with family, like if the family is big, into you know, if it's a big drinking family, whatever.

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Yeah, carry the drink around.

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When somebody's going to offer you a drink, I would love the ba-ba-ba-ba-ba, or I've brought mine, or whatever that is.

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It is important to practice that because it's funny how quickly your drink of choice just falls out of your mouth if you don't practice it.

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That's interesting, the thought of practice, because it just brings to mind I love taking La Croix's to have my sparkly water, and then I take the mixer that you would put into a cocktail, and I put that into a mixer that you would put into a cocktail, yeah, and I put that into a glass, you know, over ice, and so it tastes a little better and it yeah so.

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But it's so true what you say, because if you get given the drink and then you're walking around, you feel you need to drink it so sometimes that's a case of like well, putting it down somewhere or tipping it out, or whatever it might look like.

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I mean, sometimes it's really fun to you know if you're going to an event you can say can I bring, can I bring?

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It's pretty common to say what can I bring?

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And maybe you bring an appetizer and you bring like, oh, I made mocktail.

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Like a picture of fake margarita, you know mock margaritas or whatever that is.

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You know, and it's funny how, it's just interesting how people will be willing to try it and then all of a sudden it's not anything shameful, you're inviting everybody in to join, yeah, and then they can choose to join or not.

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Right, it doesn't?

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Um, it's, it makes it more inclusive as you're sharing that, the word inclusive.

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I'm wondering how much um encouragement that might give to others who haven't yet chosen to step into the space of recognizing and wanting to take action.

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And, as you say you, you mentioned AA is not for everybody.

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So how do you, where do you start with the client to kind of help them?

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Look at first steps, what does that look like?

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Well, they're coming to me, right.

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So they're coming to me saying I don't have a drinking problem, necessarily, but I've got a problem with my drinking.

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I want to, I want to shift things.

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You know they've already done or I'm sorry, they've already done that work and now they're in, they're in that precipice point or they're there.

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They're at that point where they say I didn't think that was possible, but but now I really want to address some of these things that maybe I wasn't addressing before, when I was drinking a little bit more than I wanted to.

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So they're kind of.

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You know, I'm not specifically advising them how to or how to do anything about their drinking, because I've already really addressed that and and we're talking about other things.

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But I think your question really is about other people.

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Am I getting that one right?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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I don't personally advise that.

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Yeah, you know that's and because then that's really that's kind of a different category of if somebody's really got problematic drinking, if it's really impacting their life and all that kind of stuff.

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That's out of my scope.

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So I want to stay within my lane.

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Ethically Absolutely, yeah.

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The journey.

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And so I'd love for you, caroline, to tell me a little bit more.

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You have people who are interested in working with you.

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I wanted to make sure that I had your website and your links, so tell me a little bit more about that.

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Yeah, I want to start this conversation.

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I want to explore what this is about.

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Yeah, yeah, that's great, thank you, um.

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So I do a group program and I have, um, we do a smaller group.

00:20:56.424 --> 00:21:04.222
I like having an intimate group, so, um, an intimate group of women who have already figured out the drinking side.

00:21:04.222 --> 00:21:13.296
So, but again, they're, they're at that stage where it's like okay, now I'm ready to address the relationship stuff.

00:21:13.296 --> 00:21:20.891
Now I'm ready to kind of look at my perfectionist tendencies, cause I know there's something else underneath there, or people pleasing, or whatever that is.

00:21:20.891 --> 00:21:25.038
So, in general, what I like to say is what we're really focusing everything on.

00:21:25.239 --> 00:21:31.878
All the curriculum, all the discussions are start to care for myself, the same way I care for the loved ones in my life.

00:21:31.878 --> 00:21:53.996
You know, we as women in particular, are such caregivers and we're always giving, giving, giving, and a lot of times that leaves a space that feels kind of empty, and so learning some of those skills is really helpful, in particular within a community and along the journey.

00:21:53.996 --> 00:22:12.671
One of the things that's really important as we care for ourselves, the way we care for other people, is stop feeling like our emotions are such a problem that need to be solved, right, yeah, so often we start drinking, we emotionally eat.

00:22:12.671 --> 00:22:18.026
There's a phrase for retail therapy we do all sorts of things in order to avoid our emotions.

00:22:18.026 --> 00:22:25.857
Yes, so now that we've got the drinking kind of in a good space, we don't want to start playing whack-a-mole.

00:22:25.857 --> 00:22:27.804
Let's start understanding.

00:22:27.804 --> 00:22:28.708
What is it the?

00:22:28.708 --> 00:22:30.734
What are those emotions underneath there?

00:22:30.734 --> 00:22:31.676
What are they trying to tell us?

00:22:32.178 --> 00:22:40.766
kind of when you say that sort of normalizing it and accepting it and approaching it with some curiosity as opposed to condemning ourselves.

00:22:40.766 --> 00:22:52.025
Because you know, to me if we we shame and blame and then we mad at ourselves, then it doesn't open up the door to start shifting our mindset and moving into a beautiful new space.

00:22:53.115 --> 00:22:54.582
Yeah, exactly, exactly.

00:22:55.263 --> 00:22:56.901
Yeah, that is so powerful.

00:22:56.901 --> 00:23:01.208
Now can people jump on a call with you to kind of discover more.

00:23:01.208 --> 00:23:02.270
Is that a good way?

00:23:03.074 --> 00:23:03.857
Absolutely, absolutely, and I'll include those links for you.

00:23:03.857 --> 00:23:04.086
That sounds wonderful.

00:23:04.086 --> 00:23:04.558
On a call with you to just kind of discover more, is that a good way?

00:23:04.558 --> 00:23:06.179
Absolutely, absolutely, and I'll include those links for you.

00:23:06.359 --> 00:23:11.540
So that sounds wonderful, yeah, and then, as far as social media, where is the best place to connect with you?

00:23:12.644 --> 00:23:14.087
um facebook or instagram?

00:23:15.010 --> 00:23:28.561
um, probably more so instagram, but it's, it's generally both yeah, so we'll make sure to pop that all in there and then any special offer or special product that's coming up or starting in the new year that you want people to know about.

00:23:28.815 --> 00:23:30.823
Yeah, I do have a group starting.

00:23:30.823 --> 00:23:38.804
I was going to start it in November, but I decided that, with elections and all sorts of stuff going on, maybe that's a perfect time, I don't know.

00:23:38.804 --> 00:23:41.598
I just I felt like I would give that a little breathing room.

00:23:41.598 --> 00:23:42.400
I will.

00:23:42.400 --> 00:23:54.723
I will be doing, um, every year I do a, a workshop specifically about how to how to handle your holidays with your family, with all the things that come up.

00:23:54.723 --> 00:23:58.721
You know, we we typically shift back into our pattern behaviors, and so holidays are a good time to do that.

00:23:58.721 --> 00:24:00.807
So I will all include some information about that workshop when I do that.

00:24:00.807 --> 00:24:02.230
And then I will a good time to do that.

00:24:02.230 --> 00:24:02.751
So I will.

00:24:02.751 --> 00:24:11.180
I'll include some information about that workshop when I do that, and then I will be opening up a new group for uncorking your life after over-drinking pretty soon.

00:24:11.861 --> 00:24:13.305
Uncorking your life.

00:24:13.305 --> 00:24:14.647
That's just the beginning.

00:24:14.647 --> 00:24:17.218
Well, this is wonderful.

00:24:17.218 --> 00:24:18.219
Thank you, caroline.

00:24:18.219 --> 00:24:27.564
Thanks for just laying out some thoughts for people to just consider, not the shaming, and just get curious.

00:24:27.564 --> 00:24:29.228
Yeah, thank you.

00:24:29.375 --> 00:24:35.624
So for my listeners, you know, if this is something that resonates with you, I invite you to connect with Caroline, as we've had.

00:24:35.795 --> 00:24:38.223
All the links will be below in the show notes.

00:24:38.223 --> 00:24:57.328
And if this conversation has sparked something for you that you can not necessarily for yourself, but perhaps for somebody else that you think they need to listen to this episode, I encourage you to share it and, along with that, I encourage you to embrace your own unique way of connecting, inspiring and creating this week.

00:24:57.328 --> 00:25:04.808
Hence the name of my show Connect, inspire, create and let your choices bring a sense of ease and flow into your world.

00:25:04.808 --> 00:25:24.205
And if you're looking for tools to build positive habits around a long life, positive mindset, then I'd love to explore with you what you're looking for and offer my services as a mindset and accountability coach, and I work with women coaches in midlife to just find the balance in their business endeavors, their marketing and their personal life.

00:25:24.205 --> 00:25:28.625
So connect with me on LinkedIn or visit my website at carolplaguecom.

00:25:28.625 --> 00:25:31.201
And, caroline, thanks again, thank you.

00:25:31.201 --> 00:25:32.727
This was a great conversation.

00:25:32.727 --> 00:25:34.010
Yeah, I've enjoyed it, thank you.

173 Rethinking Your Relationship with Alcohol with Caroline Holke

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