Australian Open 2022 Review

DISCLAIMER: Please note we use a transcription service, so there may be some errors in the following transcription of this episode. If you can, please refer to the audio for exact quotations.

Daniel Kiernan  00:09

Welcome to Control the Controllables. I'm Dan Kiernan from SotoTennis Academy in Spain, and we teamed up with Macx Tennis Academy in Ireland. We brought this podcast together to entertain, educate, and energize the tennis community through the different lenses of the sport that we love. From Grand Slam champions to those at grassroots level, from sports journalists, to backroom staff. Our aim is truly to get under the bonnet of the tennis world at all levels. So sit back and enjoy the show. Welcome to Episode 149, of Control the Controllables. And to start with, wow, what did we just witness yesterday in Melbourne, we now have a new leader as the potential greatest player of all time on the men's side of the game, as Rafael Nadal moves to 21 Grand Slams, and doing it in a way that you just never would think two sets to love down, three two down 40 love down and shows why he's the greatest player of all time in finding a way to come back from these positions. And then we had Ash Barty, the first time an Australian has won the Australian Open in 44 years. We've got so many stories to unpack, and none of them have anything to do with Novak Djokovic this time. And unfortunately, none of them have anything to do with us getting any of our predictions right from the Preview as well. But one incredible event and I'm so pleased to once again be joined by Kieran Vorster, who was with me the last time former fitness coach to Tim Henman, Wayne Ferreira, Dan Evans to name a few. Lucie Ahl the Eurosport commentator worked in British tennis for many years with lots of the top girls, Katie Swan, Jodie Burrage Laura Robson, and then we've also got Xavi Malisse, Zoe, who doesn't need a lot of introduction, but a semifinalist in 2002, Wimbledon and also a friend Jordan doubles winner, and the current coach of Lloyd Harris. And then we're welcoming back to our panel, Freddie Nielsen, and also giving him a big congrats. As last week. He is retired from professional tennis, the 2012 Wimbledon men's doubles champion, and our first timer on the panel, an Australian, someone who's going to bring Australian insights, someone who's going to bring doubles insight. And someone who's also going to give us insight into working with the US women because he coached for a few years Sofia Kenin, and also Jennifer Brady when he was working for the USTA, and that is Stephen Huss. So a big welcome to my panel. I'm now going to pass you over to my amazing panel for them to share their insights on the Australian Open 2022. So Australian Open panel, a big welcome to Control the Controllables how're you all doing?

Freddie Nielsen  03:26

Pretty good.

Daniel Kiernan  03:28

It's great to have some familiar faces back. And I would say a new face but we can't quite see him. But he is a new member of the panel, the 2005 Wimbledon doubles, men's champion, Stephen Huss and an Aussie to talk us through the Australian Open and also some Aussie winners at the men's doubles this year as well. Hussey Welcome to the show, man.

Stephen Huss  03:54

Yeah, thanks for having me, mate. Yeah, it was a fantastic tournament. And yeah, it was good to see some of these pick up some silverware.

Daniel Kiernan  04:02

More than more than some it seemed to be that the Aussie seem to dominate the tournament in the last few days. And the next person I have to give a shout out to before before we get to the real meat of the of the show, I think you know the day of the men's final. No, we're talking after that. Epic five hour 31 minute match. But over to over to you Freddie and on behalf of all of the Control the Controllables listeners, congratulations on an incredible career that you've had. It's it's come to an end has your playing career, but I'm sure there's a hell of a lot more that you've got to give in the sports are big, well done. And how does it feel to no longer be an official professional tennis player?

Freddie Nielsen  04:50

Thank you very much. That's much appreciated. It feels weird. Not good. Not bad. Just weird. It's been my basically my lifestyle for the last 20 years but It's the right time for me. I don't have anything to play for anymore. I don't have any loose ends. And it's, it's time to start a new chapter. So it feels good. I'm looking forward to seeing what's what comes next.

Daniel Kiernan  05:13

And I want to I've been speaking to you separately I want to get into to bring you want to have a chat about your career and all of your learnings from that. So I don't want to go on about it too much in this Aussie Open episode, and I have to move into today's final. None of you picked it. None of us picked it. You know, we barely even mentioned Rafael Nadal. When we spoke about it before before the tournament started. Everybody was talking about will Novak Djokovic win number 21. And it may be just started to feel like destiny a few days ago that maybe that circle that saga was going to come to the end with actually Rafa sneaking up on all of us, and winning number 21. Just to finish it off. He's now a double grand slams. He has he has two in every single event. 21 Grand Slams Xavier incredible.

Xavier Malisse  06:13

Its unbelievable. So it's like you say we didn't even mention Oh, man, I didn't even think about it. I mean, obviously he's always a contender, but I mean, I didn't see this one coming at all. I don't think none of us did. Like you say we're all talking about Novak, Novak when is it gonna happen? But you know, now Novak has to win two more if he wants to be by himself. So that's a different challenge also. And with French Open coming up with Nadal keeps this form? You know, maybe 22 is on the horizon. So I watched a bit today actually, I watched the last three sets. And it's amazing, just the way he competes. He wasn't I don't think he was necessarily the better tennis guy at some point. But he was just hanging in there playing smart slicing it up serving pretty well actually, I thought and just just the heart, you know, the guy has a heart of a lion. So I think that's why he won today. And I just got to take my hat off. And I didn't see this coming at all. 0%. I mean, yeah, so hats off to him. And what an athlete for, for tennis and for sports. So it's been, it was nice to watch him win.

Daniel Kiernan  07:33

And Lucie at two sets the love down. And I was listening to the commentary, and I think it was Tim Henman said all the way through it was at three minutes. I think the second set was and Tim was saying, there hasn't been a moment in this set where Rafa has not been ahead. You know, he was up, he was up the early break, he got broken back, he served three to five, three, he was up in the tie break. Yet Medvedev just seems to find a way of sneaking these sets at the last minute. At that stage. Did you give him any hope at all of coming back and winning this match?

Lucie Ahl  08:10

No, zero chance? I mean, I think that was the point you thought it is gonna stand any possibility of winning. He's he's got to win one of those first two sets. And as you say, I mean, somehow he found himself a break up because that seems unlikely. I don't know how he got into that position. And then not winning that second set. You saw no way he's going to be able to come back. And I mean, still. Yeah, in shock. Really. I think like you said it was just kind of the stars were aligned. And maybe this was just meant to be because he's fine. I mean, even you know, in the fifth with what happened there, you couldn't close it out. And then he breaks straight away. I mean, at that point, I thought, okay, he's, he's done you thought he maybe, yes, you could back in at that stage. And then he couldn't close it out. But then it's a break again, and then close it out to love, which he did in all the sets that he won, actually, when when it's service game obviously didn't didn't hold initially. But then I mean, it just amazing. I mean, there's as Xavier said, The it didn't actually serve well to start with but then the serve got better. He was prepared to he knew that he wasn't winning the exchanges from the back of the court. Certainly at the start, he was mixing out use the drop shot, well use the slice Well, got forward and just dug in. I mean, just phenomenal match and just ridiculous effort from him. And we didn't we didn't mention him at all. He was in a really tough section of the draw up at the top. Obviously, Novak that was in that initially, but then when he came out, it was still a tough part of the draw. And for him to come through just amazing.

Daniel Kiernan  10:03

You talk about the serve because I watched the first two sets than the third and fourth set. I was actually in the car driving to a tennis tournament. So I was listening. I was listening to it. And I had to have a little look at the stats after because what are all I remember hearing on the radio was Nadal hits first serve, Medvedev returns deep middle. And now Now Nadal goes and plays for him. And it was like, he could not get a free point. He couldn't get one. And actually, when I looked at the stats in set four Medvedev made 97% of returns in the court.

Freddie Nielsen  10:45

And then he started missing a lot more in the fifth.

Daniel Kiernan  10:48

And then he made 60 I think 55, 60 In the fifth. And it just seemed like at that point and the other one and Freddie. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this because it this is I guess what makes Medvedev so tough. The average rally length I believe for Nadal in the on his serve during the event was like 3.6 3.7. But in in this match, it was over seven shots. So you know, Medvedev is making you play almost double the shots with just his relentlessness of putting in the court. How How did you see the match from a tactical standpoint? Yeah,

Freddie Nielsen  11:24

I was very intrigued to see how it's gonna pan out in the beginning to see how much Medvedev was gonna go for broke. And when he was going to pick his moments, but it was clear that he was not afraid to take the rally up. He looked like he was very confident and staying with the rallies and coming up with with the opening shot when it when it was there. And I felt like he was not over forcing anything. And I think he looked very confident at the beginning. And even though there was a few there was one Nadal second hole, I think, was a bit of an outrageous hole with some crazy points and stuff and meditative kind of loss of points that you barely lose. And he just kept plugging away and kept taking the two Nadal and I think it's, it shows a lot and the way that Medvedev approaches his matches, especially on hardcode that he knows that from the forehand and the backhand side, I mean, he has an awkward scheme style, and it's flat balls and heavy balls. He's returning so far back, but it's really deep return and he knows that he's not giving the opponent a lot to hit on. And I think it was pretty nice to see somebody who was not that afraid of taking the rally with Nadal because normally use it you see people being afraid of what what Nadal has to offer. But I thought that made it Medvedev was willing to say hey, I'm very comfortable. And if he needs to beat me, he needs to beat me. But at the same time, I was also very impressed the resilience of Rafa we've been speaking about, but I don't. I don't feel like he changed that much tactically after the first two sets, but he just kind of had faith in his his game style and faith that it was going to work and kept plugging away. And I think it's like at the end of the day when Nadal finally retires, that I think that tenacity and resilience that he brings to the court is, is historical. I mean, that's definitely his biggest assets. And then he finally gets to grind down an opponent who looks like he was going to run away with it. After the second set. I thought buffalo guest at the end of the second set, I thought he should have won the tiebreaker. And he had a few good situation where he made some strange shots I found and then he but he just kept plugging away. And I think that attitude is is pretty much for what made his career

Daniel Kiernan  13:37

Vossie to bring you in at this point because he actually said I believe he said, After the match, Medvedev said this in his press conference, Rafa told me he's not trained really for six months. And he certainly he certainly hadn't trained ready for a five and a half hour match. How we discussed this in the Preview of the Aussie Open we said is Novak gonna be ready? Because he's been in quarantine for 7, 14 days. You know, here it is Rafael Nadal hasn't trained properly for six months is he said it many times throughout the fortnight I considered giving up and stopping you know with my foot injury you know, how was he able to bring that for five and a half hours and still look relatively fresh at the end?

Kieron Vorster  14:24

I think all those comments as well as also downplaying, downplaying the moment for himself so you know by saying those things is is reducing the expectation on himself when he says you know, he doesn't go to the gym he plays tennis and he plays golf, which I don't really buy 100% I mean, you must be doing some sort of some sort of training. And I think obviously with his weary body the older is getting I think he's obviously trained smarter, not harder. So he you know, he's been a lot more selective on what I guess what, how he trains when he trains. And I think also, I think quietly he's he has put in the work of the last six months, there's no way you can come out and play a five setter in the quarterfinals or four sets or in the semi finals and a five setter in the final and look as fresh as he did, you know So I think I think he, I think there was a little bit of my games there of downplaying it. So there's less pressure, especially, you know, on 20, go for 21. And him, you know, the comments he was making in the press in the press or about the it wasn't that important, I think, I think again, was, was just that expectation, of course, he wants to win 21 You know, you wouldn't play all these years getting to 20 and then go, Well, I'm happy at 20 You know, if you've got the opportunity to win 21 And be be the outright, you know, racehorse running, you know, running you of course, you want to go for it. So, you know,

Daniel Kiernan  15:56

I guess that's smart. And Hussy, if you go back, if you've worked with, you know, some of the some of the top American girls, you've worked with Sofia Kenin, you're on your way, it wasn't that long ago that you were you were playing tennis, that that low expectation mentality, I guess, is a smart way to go about it.

Stephen Huss  16:15

Yeah, and it's amazing that a guy that's been so successful can still downplay his expectations and take pressure on it off himself and, and use that as kind of help for him to get prepared. But to me, the physical effort comes from the mental, you know, competitiveness and toughness that that guy has. I mean, to me, he proved again, that he's the best competitor I've ever seen. He doesn't have a peer in that way. And I felt like

Freddie Nielsen  16:45

I don't believe that for a second.

Stephen Huss  16:52

Like him? Yes. But I mean, to me, his, I felt like Freddie I thought he was gassed at the end of the second, it's lucky that I don't gamble because I would have had anything and everything that Medvedev was going to win that match. But I think that, you know, that old Spanish thing that Dan, now you're very familiar with, you know, he's willing to go through the suffering, he was going to compete, he was going to fight, he was going to stay there. And I don't know how he did it. But to turn that match around and win it is incredible. I also felt that Medvedev contributed to it as far as in the third set, I felt he took his foot off the gas a little bit. And I think that he got a little tired at three two love 40 didn't play his best tennis there when he wasn't able to convert that break. And then he got upset with the crowd a little bit and started arguing with the umpire more so he sort of distracted himself. When I felt he had everything in his favor. I mean, Nadal was playing his game style, he was getting the surplus one he was using his forehand the whole time. But Medvedev's movement was good enough to combat that. And he was able to turn points around and get up on the baseline on his own serve. So I didn't see a way out for Nadal. And he just proved again, why, you know, he's the best competitor out there. It was it was awesome to watch.

Daniel Kiernan  18:05

And you mentioned there Hussy, Medvedev. And the thing with the crowd again, if you haven't listened to his his press conference after the match, it's really interesting. You know, he's make some big references that basically it tells a story about the another child has lost the dream. And moving forward, he's just going to be playing for himself. He's very much making out that, you know, a little bit like Djokovic I think has done he reminds me a lot of Joker which Medvedev, In some ways. He's almost building this kind of me against the world. attitude that seems to work for him a little bit as well, because we saw in the semifinals Xavier. You know, he was he was struggling. He had a massive outburst. Which by the way, I'd love to hear your thoughts. Did you see the outburst with Tsitsipas?

Xavier Malisse  18:54

No, I didn't. I heard I heard a bit about it with calling names. And there was some Yeah, or something. You had like a cat or whatever I read about or? Yes, small cat. But you know, it's how old is he? 25. I mean, if you're gonna play the card of the rest against the world, and you're going to play another 10 to 15 years. It's going to be a long time and a lonely time on the tour. So I think he needs it to keep himself motivated and keep himself going. But I think there's other ways than to go against I mean, listen, I'm not the guy to say I was always in an argument with an umpire. But I was never you know, disrespectful. I call names or something like that was always just complaining and which to my disadvantage a lot too. So it doesn't really work in your favor, and it's unnecessary energy you're wasting, especially at this level. And like I said, you know, it's three two 40 Love and if he takes that point and he stops complaining and with the Empire, it's for two and then it's probably was one or two points away from that. So it's not good energy. And he has to watch out, he doesn't lose, you know, once you lose the crowd, it gets tough. And if they go against you, those grand slams become a lot tougher to win. So it's, it's, we say it's a knife that cuts on two sides, you want it for your energy and your motivation and keep you going. But you gotta keep the crowd and then the people on your side too

Freddie Nielsen  20:29

The press conference you're talking about is very interesting, really, really peculiar. But he is a peculiar guy who says what he wants, I'm a big fan, I love him. But at the same time, even though it sounds quite composed, let's not forget, it was still in the aftermath of losing a final and you might think that you're very composed and rational, but at the same time, you might maybe not regret it, but let's see how long time this feeling is gonna last because obviously, he's very disappointed because he just lost the Grand Slam final.

Daniel Kiernan  20:58

And it seems to be as well, Lucie, Shapovalov also took on when he took on basically the Great's of the game, as well, you know, with with with his comments, there's that just see, again, it feel it's nice to see that this next gen that they're pushing, but I'm not sure again, those comments are going to do him any favors, calling out that the referees bias towards the like the likes of Nadal, potentially something that he might regret down the line as well. All is that good for the game?

Lucie Ahl  21:33

Yeah, I don't think so. I mean, I think, I think, again, it's pretty sad in the heat of the moment. I mean, he was obviously really disappointed, he felt that it affected the match. And still, you know, if you compare the time they've been in the game and the experience compared to the likes of the Nadal Federer, Djokovices, etc, you know, they're still pretty young. And I think further down the line, then they'll maybe realize that that's probably not the route to go. I think, you know, with experience and maturity as well, I think with with Medvedev, he's he has come a long way. And when you think back, probably pretty cringy bubble, some of the stuff he's done in the past, the comments he's made and how he's behaved, it did seem particularly in that match against its in person press conference. After that, he did know that he went over the line he did apologize to, to the umpire, and I think he knows that that isn't going to help him. It's tough though there, you know, the competitors, it's, it's raw, and they put it all on the line. And sometimes they overstep the mark, and it's just trying to get the balance and be who they are on the court. I mean, it's a tough act to follow, isn't it particularly Nadal and Federer with how they conduct themselves I think they're in a different league and geography, which is obviously felt that I mean, his his tennis has come through, but you know, still hasn't got the support that he probably would love to have. And I think similar with the other players, it's, it's getting that balance, you've got to keep your own personality so you can play your best tennis. There's got to be some respect there as well. And I think yeah, it'll be interesting to see how and where they're at further down the line in their careers.

Daniel Kiernan  23:25

Talking of personalities, Marmite personalities. Is there a bigger one? The Nick Kyrgios. And I'm not sure that there is you know, and I think even the fact that you know, I've got to two Wimbledon champions here for doubles that I'm sure would would understand this, you know, you win Wimbledon as a doubles player. You probably don't quite get the same coverage as you do. If you win in Wimbledon as a singles player. You know, the doubles world is hard to bring the coverage.

Freddie Nielsen  23:56

You have a friend Jeremy champion in doubles. Also, let's not forget

Daniel Kiernan  23:59

We do we absolutely we that's that's mentioned every time we don't forget that Xavier don't worry about that. But you but in terms of in terms of Channel Nine, I guess Channel Nine is the BBC that we know in the UK, you know, the biggest station in Australia during the Nadal. I believe it was the semifinal of Nadal they switched over to the main coverage to be the Kyrgios Kokkinakis as doubles match. You know, and that was it obviously caught the imagination of the whole country. Like you said he's had he's had people come out and call him knobs. You know, Michael Venus was was on the screen calling him a knob. He's had people that have been trying to fight him in in gyms and apparently Netflix have caught this coverage. So he certainly seems to bring a lot but Hussy now. him and him and his best mate Kokkinakis are now, Australian Open Doubles Champions. What did you think about that?

Stephen Huss  24:58

Yeah, it's pretty fascinating0 again, isn't it? I mean, it is incredible the coverage that he's brought. But let's be honest, they're not he's not bringing the coverage to double. He's bringing it to himself. And, I mean, he loves it. And I happen to think he is good for the game. Now does everything you'd bring good is good, absolutely not. But the hype and everything he brings to the game, I think fantastic. He is a showman, he is worth watching. So they're all positive. But then you kind of ask yourself, is that how I would want my son to act? And is that kind of the way that we do things within tennis circles? And are we respecting the people around us? He probably doesn't do a very good job with that. I do think, though, that if any of those teams had a beaten curiosa and kokkinakis, then obviously there wouldn't be a fight in the gym, there wouldn't be anyone calling anyone knots. You might think it in your own mind, but you don't come out and say it. So the losing part hurts when the guys carrying on like that, I think around sort of the bigger picture and sort of participation and overall tennis. I mean, he brings different people to the sport. But my question would be, are those people going to stay in the sport? Are they going to go their local club and pick up a racket and play? Are they gonna go the next day? And watch tennis and watch somebody else?

Daniel Kiernan  26:17

Are they just gonna shout? Are they just gonna shout?

Stephen Huss  26:20

To drink and shout and be you know, and act like that. So it's a tough one. But overall, it's good for tennis that he's in tennis. But you certainly gotta take it with a grain of salt. So

Daniel Kiernan  26:37

First quick fire round. We're gonna do quickfire rounds throughout this evening, Vossie I'm gonna come to you first. You've got three options. Is he a knob? Is he a small cat? Or is he good for the game of tennis?

Kieron Vorster  26:59

He's a knob

Freddie Nielsen  26:59

He's good for the game.

Lucie Ahl  27:01

Yeah, I think it's good to have some variety in there. So good for the game.

Daniel Kiernan  27:07

Xavier

Xavier Malisse  27:09

Knob, I watched it for the first time in doubles. It's good. And it's not good. I mean, I can't say knob or whatever, but maybe a half of one. But it's good for tennis if It brings people but probably not the right people.

Freddie Nielsen  27:29

It's a fine line that at the moment because he has to be careful. He doesn't turn into a court jester.

Stephen Huss  27:35

like, Yeah, I think I think you hit the nail on the head there, mate. And yeah, I think I think you know, at the Australian Open as home is home slam. It was a show you put on a show but you know, you do that week in week out. I think it's gonna come and bite your ass. But, you know, for for the event. And you know, yeah, he and huge congrats to both both him and Kokkinakis fought for winning it. But yeah, the whole thing

Xavier Malisse  28:06

It kind of overshadows a little bit. No, you win them. But all we talk about is this behavior, which should be the other way around.

Daniel Kiernan  28:14

So, so to move that on fast, because I think I think you've all hit the nail on the head there. If we take him and I think sometimes when you take a Kyrgios and you compare him to my next person I want to talk about, you start to actually see what can be achieved in, in this world through the platform that you do have and that is Dylan Alcock, the Australian of the Year he was voted in. He's someone who I've followed for a long time. You know, obviously inclusivity in tennis, getting disability sport out there. He's played his, his matches on the Rod Laver Arena. He's brought unbelievable coverage to that sport, and is a great example, I think Freddie of, of how you can actually use the platform in the right way, you know, and he's fought for that for years. And for me, that was probably the most emotional story of Australian Open 2022, a 15 time singles Grand Slam winner, an eight time doubles Grand Slam winner yet he cried his heart out talking about what it meant to finally be looked at as almost a normal person who was able to go ahead and play the sport, just like someone who was able bodied. You know, that was really quite special. Yeah,

Freddie Nielsen  29:36

And and I think what's very important is now that you compare the Kyrgios and the dilemma story, and to bring back you asked about Shapovalov is good for tennis. Well, I think it's good for tennis that we at least see who these people are instead of all these PR faces that just gives us stereotypical answers. And if you if you take Kyrgios for example, he seems to have found something that brings out the best tennis for him. So if he, if this is what he needs to do in order to see that Nick Kyrgios who can compete with everybody in the world, then if that's how it has to be, then so be it. And and if, like I said before, it's a fine line between being serious and not serious. And if you can continuously compete at this level, I mean, I think he was really unlucky with his draw, he could have gotten deep, he was really up for it in the second grade tennis. And then you come to Dylan. And that's, that's the whole key is that I think it's great for tennis to have different personalities and characters, because I think the sport is benefiting from contrasts. And one story, the one story is a great story doesn't mean that all other stories have to be the same. And Kyrgios is also a story of a guy who's grown up in the spotlight, and being being happy, having the weight of the world on his shoulders and not really finding his way. And now he's found a way, that doesn't necessarily mean it's bad, because it wasn't the outcome story. I mean, it goes without saying that his story is unbelievable. I was in Australia for a month, he's probably the most advertised player down there didn't see him in TV adverts all the time. And what he's done for the, for the wheelchair tennis is unbelievable. It was It wasn't supposed to be on the Euro Zone program during the corona time. But he called them out and then they put it on again. So yeah, I think his story is fantastic. And I like it. And I think there's I think we should be more open and generous for different kinds of stories. It doesn't have to be the same story. And yeah, it's obviously a fantastic story. To be honest, before Dylan came around, it wasn't too aware of, of what was going on and built yet. And so yeah, massive credit to him and massive, massive credit for what he's done and for Australia to really embrace it.

Kieron Vorster  31:50

I think you know, like if you even look at what what the you know, the guys have done urine England is phenomenal. That it just doesn't get the media coverage that that say potentially it has done in Australia. Very similar, very similar to what you know, before is disgraced Oscar Pistorius did for the athletes in South Africa, who disabled.

Daniel Kiernan  32:13

Now you're talking about their Gordon Reid Alpha Hewett, who won their their 14 grand slam together, and ninth in a row, you know, so it's incredible. But again, we not, and actually, I'll share some stats

Kieron Vorster  32:30

alone, just their stats alone that you set out there, that should be, you know, mainstream mainstream news, and should be should be trending on all socials, because that's phenomenal. Phenomenal, what they've done.

Daniel Kiernan  32:43

So Vozzie, and you guys, this is number 149 podcasts that I've done. The least downloaded podcast that I've done is Gordon Reid.

Kieron Vorster  32:54

Yeah, but that also that also comes down to social, you know, like, like, again, all of this comes down to social value. And it's piss poor, because, you know, it's just, it's just that the media, the media should be pushing it our tennis riders, you know, everyone in it should should be talking about it in a way bigger, bigger way, just like how we're talking about Nadal or just how we're talking about Djokovic. What they've achieved is phenomenal. But but because because the social value of these people is is is less or lower. If people don't, don't see and see the importance of it. Which is a shame. Because I you know, obviously I can only talk about the the wheelchair folk that I see at the NTC and the amount of work they put in and how hard they work. Phenomenal. And then they are they trained like able bodied people. So it's, you know, I wouldn't say it's a handicap because even though the way they're coached the way everything is done, it's just it's just like, they normal. And what they've achieved was phenomenal. And I challenge anybody to get in a wheelchair and strap up and try and play. It's really really hard. Really hard.

Daniel Kiernan  34:07

Now they're incredible, incredible, incredible athletes incredible achievements. Yeah, and I want to move us over and Lucie I'm gonna I'm gonna come to you on this because one we made fun of you for going with the boring pick. It was the boring pick. But you are the only one that got close to getting any pick right apart from I've got one that I'm going to try and loosely grab later. Vossies Eva went out before Freddy's Freddy's normally don't even enter the tournament so we didn't miss anything with Freddy. But Ash Barty and watching watching Barty apart from that six game period in the in the second set and the final. It reminds me of when you go and watch a kid play a tournament like an under 14th grade for event. And they're just ranked way too high for everyone else in that event. And you just kind of turn it up and at whatever point our brakes serve now, you know and get you to and to win or whatever it might be. It looked like she was in second gear, the whole tournament, but obviously in an incredible achievement, first Australian winner in 44 years. We shouldn't underestimate the pressure that she was under, in that in that stadium on finals day in particular. What what did you make of Vash, Bharti?

Lucie Ahl  35:36

Yeah, I think I think what she did was, in some ways made it look easy. And it certainly wouldn't have been I mean, as you said, in all the pressure that she had on her shoulders, I think the last few years where she's fallen short, and you've definitely seen that pressure and the nerves. I think probably winning Wimbledon helped, I think, obviously, you know, one Roland Garros and then winning Wimbledon, which was, she said, a big dream of hers. I mean, obviously winning at home is is massive. I think that did help. I mean, she hardly lost any games. I mean, the matches were tighter than that. If you if you watch them, it certainly I think it was she's dropped 21 games before she got to the coming into the final served unbelievably well, which I think makes a massive difference, I mean, hardly got broken at all. So if you're able to get through your service games, relatively comfortably, then, you know, on the return games, it makes life easier. But I think you know, the way that she is able to manage and control her emotions very much talks about, you know, wanting to go out there with a smile on her face and enjoying it. And, you know, being the best version of herself. I mean, she talked through all those cliches, but I think with all that she's gone through and then such a good junior, and then took a break from the game obviously was really struggling with the expectation left the sport played cricket, we all know the story, to then come back. And, you know, she's obviously gone through it. And just just amazing. I mean, how she came back in, in that second set. I think tactically, she's very astute. I think she's obviously got the variety, and just seems to be slightly ahead of everyone at the moment in terms of the fact that she's got a few different options if things aren't working. And that certainly was the case against Collins in the final so yeah, just you pick the top seed then you've got a reasonable chance but I just felt that she was ready from from what what had happened in previous years and where she was maybe at but she's still got to do it. And yeah, amazing for for her and for for the Aussies

Daniel Kiernan  37:56

Which matches Did did you feel she got pushed him because first round match was 54 minutes. Second round match was 52 minutes. Third round match was 61 minutes. My girl, Amanda Anisimova, who, at one point I thought was she was she was gonna make me look good at some point. I mean, she obviously beat Osaka and also Ben stitch, which I'll remind you guys, if we would listen back, you said she wouldn't. But that was 74 minutes. That then 63 minutes, quarterfinal, 62 minutes semi final. There's actually conflicting timings for the final depending on depending on which site you go on, but it certainly wasn't a long final. So who pushed her

Lucie Ahl  38:45

It's about winning the key points, isn't it and about stepping out. I think there were moments where she didn't necessarily play her best tennis, but she still was able to continue to hold serve, get through those key moments. And in most of the matches, there were times where, you know, you still got to string it together. And you know, wouldn't say she was blasting through people like we've seen with some of the players I think the way she construct points and you know the way that she's able to produce a decent serve when she needs to that I think for me was was so impressive that you know when she's out there competing, she definitely is able to feel when she needs to step things up. I mean, Anisimova she, as I say scoreline wise that was probably the tightest but I think in some of the other matches. Definitely there were moments there that you got to produce and I think that's down to her mindset and mentality. She

Daniel Kiernan  39:53

She looked a different class to me but how see I want to bring you in because you you've got firsthand lens of this you know want one thing. This is my very loose grab here. I'm grabbing it getting something right after, after flopping so badly but I did I did say that I felt the American girls were going to push we spoke about Venus and Serena not playing. Barty played four Americans from the fourth round Anisimova, Pegula, Keys, and then Collins in the final. American tennis seems to be in pretty good hands on the women's side. And at this point, again, Danielle Collins making the final is is Was that a surprise for you? Or are these players keys, Collins, the sort of players that you would see pushing towards the later stages of Grand Slams more regularly? I

Stephen Huss  40:44

think Madison keys is absolutely a player that should be contending at the end of slams. Without questions, she has a game she has the power. But you know, she hasn't shown that she's had a consistent work ethic. And until she does that, then she's probably going to have these flashes where, you know, she shows that she can pretty much beat anyone in the world on her day. But it was good to listen to her speak a little bit and feel like she had less pressure on us she'd she doesn't enjoy the practice very much it doesn't look like so she's gonna have to work a little bit harder. But if she can, there's no question she has the game to be in the later rounds. A grand slams, Danielle Collins as terrific power. You know, I saw her and spent a bit of time with her after she was out out of college and 17 and 18. And I mean, her biggest asset is you know, what kind of upsets people sometimes and that's her competitive and that's just ruthlessness. I mean, she's gonna step over anybody, she's gonna step on you to go where she's going. And she's not afraid to do that, you know, there was just a period there where she was able to overpower Barty a little bit. But, you know, let's be honest body is the best viewer, tennis player in World Women's Tennis. I mean, no question about it. She reads the game, she feels the game. She plays the game as a pure tennis player, there isn't anyone better, but there are some girls that can overpower. Like, an Osaka and like an Anisimova at certain times. So if she's a little bit off, then those girls have a chance to overpower but Ash was on top of her game. I mean, talk about strength, intelligence, great for great forehand, unbelievable slice, talk about mastery of the slice, the different slices line cross, short approach defense. She's a incredible tennis player. So it was fun to watch. But the American girls are in a good place and they're gonna be around for a while. And there's a lot of them up there. So yeah, there'll be around

Kieron Vorster  42:49

What was that step with boxes? She only hit did she only hit two back end winners coming over the ball, the whole the whole tournament? Was it two back and minus three backhand winners

Stephen Huss  42:59

Could be right? It could be right. I didn't see that. But yeah, that could easily be right.

Kieron Vorster  43:05

You know, going back to say, you know, I worked with Tim Henman, the slicer is an offensive shots you know everyone thinks it's a negative shot I mean even even Evo, you know Evo's slice is as good if not more effective than coming over the ball as well. You know if you if you'd knifing angle short with penetration going deep as you just said with Ash I think the players of today don't know how to handle that. Especially when it's keeping luck.

Stephen Huss  43:31

No question and she hits the slice with intention. So you know what? She hit after it most of the time a forehand right? I mean, she can defend with it, yes, but when she can hit an offensive slide, she hits it and then she can cheat a little bit to her left and often get a forehand on the next ball so it's awesome tennis to watch and really pleased to her and her team and to win at home in Australia after winning Wimbledon as well. I mean, she needs to be on cloud nine and and I deserve it was awesome. And

Daniel Kiernan  44:00

I I'd love to bring you in here Xavi and see what you think on this because there's obviously lots of topics we can talk about you know, but there's the obvious ones so I was then going right well who who are disappointing tournament you know, and I guess that's that's that's subjective. That's my opinion going through it but as far as losing fourth round on the men's side, a little bit disappointing for him. I would imagine. You know, Hurkacz lost second round a little bit disappointing for him. You know, he's someone who is starting to get that and then I struggled a little bit on the men's side. But then when I went to the women's I was like, Kvitova, First round Coco Gauff Kerber. Kenin Fernandez all first round Muguruza second round Osaka third round, Sabalenka. Fourth round. I mean, nobody was betting on her after Lucie told us how many double fault she hit at the start of the year. But it does. Raducanu, I know. Again, we spoke about it beforehand. I think it's harsh to say disappointing but ultimately second round, you know, it seems as if they're struggling to grab it. We've had that this discussion before, you know, but what what is it that makes it so difficult for people to repeat level? Slam after slam after slam after slam? I think just

Xavier Malisse  45:15

There's more variety and more players and everybody works harder I feel like I mean coming back to Nadal and Medvedev, I mean, but it seems like everybody's handling matches, five hours, five and a half. I mean, back in the day when I started everybody's cramping. You know, if we got to three hours, we were hoping I mean, I played guys that were cramping in the fourth set. And it just seems like there's a wider you

Kieron Vorster  45:42

What will be interesting on that does have is actually actual time versus elapsed playing time. So you might be playing at your elapsed time maybe less, but actual playtime, maybe a little bit more rally time. So hence you're cramping.

Xavier Malisse  45:56

I totally agree. But still, when it's hot like this five hours on for five and a half. I mean, I just feel like everybody's better prepared. And also the levels gone up. So everybody can be, you know, used to be the men, the women doesn't matter. You know, the top top people were getting through the first, second, third round, fairly easy, but I feel like those days are over a little bit.

Daniel Kiernan  46:24

But even Xavier on that though, on the men's side, it seems like there's more consistency of name, as you know, is is that and maybe to bring you in as well, here, Freddie, is that a five set, three set thing, you know, if you play over five sets, if you're better than someone you'll tend to, you'll tend to get the job done over five. Whereas a three set match. Things can go either way, you know, two sets and a 10 point tie break in doubles. You know, matches can change or futures qualifying. Any any matches can happen. Is that is that one of the reasons Freddie? Is there any other reasons that we're missing on why that there seems to be more variety in names in the women's tour that have gone deep in these draws than there is on the men's? And that's my opinion? I don't have the facts to back that up. So shoot me down on that as well.

Freddie Nielsen  47:15

I don't think so. I mean, it sure does play a part. Definitely. You can just see it in the Master Series. Fundamentally, there are more people that have won a Master Series than ever won a slam. So obviously it has some effect, but to the extent that it does with the women's tennis of the last few years, I mean, I think we talked about it before how many one time winners there on the women's tour compared to the on the women's slams, compared to the men's slams. I don't think it plays that much of a difference because I remember growing up with women's tennis where it girls were dominating. You had the you had the Grafs you have Serena, just to deny you had Kim Clijsters, the Capriati Davenport, it was always the same people going deep. And to take a page out of Roy Keane's book, I think it comes down to characters a little bit. I think that the modern modern player is not as equipped to be that ruthless winning machine as they were back in the days. And that's just a subjective opinion. But without sounding too critical. I think there's a little bit of a softness to it. And I think it's the same on the men's side. And I think that's why we haven't really seen the young generation, break the old generation. And I think that's why a guy like Nadal is still winning slams, when we all thought it was done, because that mental resilience and that ability to be tough when it matters and rising to the occasion. I don't see that as much in the young generation as I used to. So that's my take on it anyway.

Kieron Vorster  48:48

Would you say that's entitlement that these young kids because because they've they've been spoiled, so much coming in, in in today's world, that they feel that entitled that they don't know what it's like to handle adverse situations and dig deep and grind?

Freddie Nielsen  49:05

Maybe I think I think that's all that could that could play a part maybe. So maybe that's the beginning of it. But I think it's also much more. It's not accepted to put pressure on kids anymore. And to expect demands. I see it a lot in Denmark, for example. You expect something on the kids and you hear something from the parents and you can't do this, you can do that. And then if you expect something they go to another club or whatever, I think maybe you can use entitlement I think more it's it's more I think it's in every part of life in the modern day that there's much more cushion around the youngsters and there's this impression that we need to protect them and and not put them into difficult situations because we imagine if they feel bad back in the days I think you were much more inclined to expect things of kids growing up and and I don't remember participation medals being a thing back in the days and these kind of things and and I think it's just a general thing in the world all over the places, even in schools now that you can really expect too much of kids or ask too much of them. Because there's this whole let's let's watch out from let's not put them into any unpleasant situations, which isn't, in my opinion is something that we adults kind of pretend is unpleasant for the kids because I don't know what you guys were like growing up. But we were playing football in the schoolyard. We were playing matches with each other. And we were getting into it. And we were winning and losing and it was life or death. But when it was over, it was over. I feel like it's the parents that that think it's much worse for the for the kids than the actual kids do. And yeah, not long story will help me answer short. I think it's just because they're being being protected much more in a way that is meant to be good for them. But I think it backfires when it comes to the competitive sports,

Kieron Vorster  50:58

I think, I think well, I mean, I agree with you. But I, you know, I've been around it that it's, and I've just see it's too easy for kids to go exactly what you said about moving from club to club, but just I don't want that coach anymore. Why? Because something may have happened was there may have said something in you know, that they didn't agree with and it's too easy to move and out of context. But in the same situation, my son had a trial at Crystal Palace, football club, under 15s. And he did three weeks, and he had a three week break over Christmas. Right, now they have category one, Category Two category three clubs, here in England. And its a category one club, the coaching is phenomenal. He's training four days a week, and then you play matches. He went back after Christmas, right? And he was he was absolutely thriving. He was, you know, mixing it with all of them came after the first training session back after Christmas, I picked him up from school. And he went, I don't want to go anymore. And I said why? And he said, because they're coaching me the way the way they scouted me, I'm not playing the same way. He gave me all his reasons. And I pulled the plug and I messaged Crystal Palace that the head coach and said, Look, he's decided for some personal reasons he wants to withdraw from the trial process I was I was hurting inside as a parent hurting like you won't believe, especially from the from where I where I came from, and where I grew up and what I had to, you know what I had to do to try and make it as a tennis player. And trust me, I tried to play pro tennis and I was shit, right? But one thing I can say is I gave it 100% effort, and I left no stone unturned. And it was he was pulled out his comfort zone is pulled out his comfort zone from his grassroots club. Right? And he didn't like it. He didn't like it. And instead of me saying and this is where as a parent is a fine line between me saying like you've got to go. And then he starts hating the sport and then he pulls out. Or you then says a parent. Okay, that's fine. What I should have said, I should have said look, okay, whatever the case is, go for the eight weeks enjoy the process on the premise that we're not going to sign you're not going to go there even if they're off yet. Or they or they tell you you're not good enough. So the decision may be made. It was too easy. The decision making was too easy. And I think the the younger generations today, do that because it's it's the entitlement, it's made too easy for them. Now in his head, my son's head, he's he's he's got an assassin Academy, which is a category three, but he but that was luck. But the decision he made was mind blowing. Mind blowing.

Stephen Huss  53:40

I think there's a lot less elite level talent in the women's game. So like Freddie was saying, if you go back 15, 20 years, and you look at the players who were playing, you know, the Belgians glasses and the Hannon and Davenport and the Williams sisters, to me that that that group of sort of that top 810 I'm Aurasma is another one that comes to mind. There are unbelievable phenomenal players. And to me, there isn't the same elite level of tennis. And I think, you know, we used to talk about it as a federation when I was with the USTA, there's great opportunity on the women's side, because apart from sort of Serena, who kind of is now out of the picture, but there's a lot of opportunity. I mean, no one else was sort of dominating. And so I don't think that's happening right now. And then the other part is I think social media plays a role. The girls are under way more scrutiny, way more of judgment and way more pressure. And I agree with what the guys are saying about how you got to be able to stand up for that a little bit more, but 20 years ago, they didn't they didn't have that and I think it's harder now to repeat those efforts down. I think it's you get way more anxious and you have to have an amazing team around you that kind of keeps you grounded and you're able to be mature enough. I'm to handle that pressure on the shoulders. So just a couple of thoughts. Not

Daniel Kiernan  55:03

I think it's very true. And I think the two that jumped to mind for me actually, is Medvedev, and Raducanu. And if you if you look at them to it just on a sheet of paper on what they've achieved in the game, Medvedev is streets ahead. I mean, I don't know how many Grand Slam finals has he played in now, four or five, I guess, you know, one grand slam, if he'd won today would have been world number one. And he's got two people in his box. He's got his coach. And he's got his manager, he tends to go by I mean, could you imagine Medvedev walking in the streets of New York or London or somewhere? Nobody probably would know him. You know, I know he's getting more he's getting more famous. Whereas you take Raducanu, who was yeah, she's won a Grand Slam, but nothing else yet. Whereas she's probably one of the most recognizable faces that there is out there now and social media has has done that, you know, that social media is completely thrown her into into that limelight. And once you start to feel like you're protecting something and protecting a career, and it's got to be very difficult, and it seems to have it seems to have happened with a few of the girls, you know, that have won their, that their first grand slams, but I don't know what have you guys have any thoughts on that? Can

Freddie Nielsen  56:37

I just elaborate a little bit of my point as to what what Hussy's saying with the social media. And that kind of goes back to what I was trying to say about the characters as well, I don't feel like from the outside. Of course, it's pretty pretentious to try and pretend like I know what's going on. But it just feels like a lot of these players, they're not really prepared for what's going to happen when they actually go ahead and win it. And one example, for example, is also a guy whom a big fan of in general, I think the girls actually have some pretty interesting characters that could do well for the game for many years, maybe even more interesting characters than men's tennis. I mean, they speak up on current matters and, and often is, good stuff and have something to bring to the table and also goes one of them. And then all of a sudden, it it gets too overwhelming for her yet at the same time. She has what 25 sponsors and keeps bringing out, social media posting and bringing the spotlight to herself as well. So I'm thinking what what did you expect was going to happen? You know, and it feels like, there's a little bit of winging to it and saying, Oh, this is great. Now with Raducanu as well. Okay, she's one, she's great. She's a star. Now we're signing up Tiffany's whatever. And now we're just gonna milk this box instead of Hang on. What does it what does this mean for me? How am I gonna prepare for it? And how am I going to be a champion going forward? You know, am I just gonna Okay, now I'm here. I'm just gonna rinse it in. Because if you bring back to Osaka, it didn't seem like she was particularly a fall that yet the sponsorship deals and all the attention seems never ending.

Kieron Vorster  58:22

I think I think I think it's an interesting point. But but then that's what their agents are there for. Right? So the agents, this is where it's a double edged sword. The agents are representing the agency company, the agency, but also represent the player. So what they should be doing is in the best interest of that player, and should be nurturing that player in the best way possible for longevity in the sport. And, and obviously, if they do that, and then say, Okay, we are not going to take on the sponsorships right now. Then the agency that they're working for, loses a whole bunch of money. And so, you know, if they were if they were doing it, right, they would, they would be nurturing, nurturing the athletes in a way that listen, if you carry on, and I hate to use this word, because it just winds me up that trajectory, which is used by Raducanu all the time. If you just carry on the pathway that you're going down, you're gonna get all the sponsors, and you'll get probably more than more, if we just protect you and nurture you this way. It's like, boom, you won a slam, and then all of a sudden, it's like, the floodgates are out the vultures are out for you both both to take you as a sponsor, but also to shoot you down. When as soon as you start going, doing badly.

Freddie Nielsen  59:35

But at the same time, and maybe I'm naive here. I mean, you're the master of your own life, you know, and I completely get your point. I don't disagree, but at the same time, you're also responsible for for making the deals and taken on the attention that comes with it. And if you don't want it or can't handle it, then maybe you didn't prepare yourself well enough before then I completely understand but it's easier said than done from the outside with the agents, but I just feel like there's a little bit of personal responsibility as well. So

Kieron Vorster  1:00:09

I knew Bill Ryan, I don't know if you knew Bill Ryan, he was he used to manage balk. He managed Roscoe Turner, he managed Kafelnikov Thomas Blomqvist, like every suite, he managed. IMG used to hate him, because he always look after the players first and foremost, that was that was his premise. And he was a legend with the players, but you and he would always, you'd always protect the players and and do what's right for the players, what you find is the agent with the most experience should be the ones looking after, or making sure that they are influencing the agent that if it's a young agent, taking care of it, making sure that they're doing things right, for the best interest of that player. Because when you're 18, what do you know?

Freddie Nielsen  1:00:51

That's very true.

Kieron Vorster  1:00:51

When you're, when you're 31, 30 or,you know, or mid 20s, you know, a lot more. So, when you're 18, you're hoping that the people around you are giving you this the most sound most professional advice in the best interest of you.

Daniel Kiernan  1:01:04

You've also got parent, you've also got parents in there. If you're talking about an 18 year old, it's it ends up where does it end? Because, you know, the players not making all the decisions, the parents are involved. If the agent doesn't give the parent and the player what they want, then they'll sign with a different agency. And this is it's this whole, it's this whole power, power thing that happens across the board in tennis, it's the same with coaches, isn't it to a degree.

Kieron Vorster  1:01:29

But that's the million dollar question is like, you know, you know, what do the parents want surely as a parent, whoever you've, you've got around you as you want. You want those people in the best interest of their child who was an athlete and a talented athlete to get the best out of them. If the parent if the parent has any other motive, then that's that's wrong. And that would be the premise as a parent, you know, like, hey, I want you to work with them. I want you to do this or because we know you've got their best interests at heart or not, we want you because I actually don't care about I don't care about my son or my daughter. I just want you to solicit getting as much money out of sponsors as possible.

Daniel Kiernan  1:02:12

But it's like a slight tangent. It's the same subject I hope, but our sports psychologist at the academy, Anthony Ross used to work with Ash Barty. He sent around a video of Ash Barty's dad who Rob Barty would be known as one of the best tennis parents out there for the way he's handled things. And he did a webinar not just with our academy, but with with parents a few months ago. And one of the things Rob said it was back when Ash was about 20 in the world. And I apologies, but this also shows how amazing and humble the Barty team is. I don't remember the name of Ash Barty's coach you know, but just shows how what an amazing job that they've done to work as a team. But when she was about 20 in the world, it was in Australia, and Rob Barty got a call from his wife to say that everyone in Australia is talking to say, Ash needs to move coach. All of the agents are saying it, everyone's talking about it. What what are we going to do? You know, what are we going to do? This is the pressure that that's that's coming by. So Rob picked up ash from the airport, she flew back to Brisbane from from from Melbourne. And he had this conversation with us where he said, you know, have you heard what everyone's saying about your coach, and maybe it's time for you to move on. And as good as a parent as Rob was, he was still listening, you've got so many people in your ear at that level, that it's hard to quite know what's right. And and he said this to Ash. And Ash spent a couple of hours thinking about it and came back and said, so I've thought about it. And I want us to give give the coach a 50 grand raise. And I want his name. Yeah, correct. There you go. So, so sorry, Craig, if you are listening to this, that you know, but fair play to you for the ability that you guys look at it as a team. And that that call that Ash made at that point of saying you are my guy. I don't care what everyone's telling me, everyone's filling my ears and filling my team's ears that I should be changing coach because everyone's looking for that magic dust. Not only am I going to keep you on, but I'm going to give you a raise over a three year contract. You know, you are my guy. And then obviously she has reaped the rewards she was talking about and after the event that Craig's the best coach in the world, you know, really giving him an incredible amount of credit. So I don't know if I've gone off on too much of a tangent Vossie but just it's hard to know, when you're in that position. You have such a small period of time to make some of these decisions. You've got people in you Yeah, drip feeding certain things. I think it's quite hard to make the right decisions. I would imagine when it happened so fast.

Kieron Vorster  1:05:06

Yeah, I think I mean, it'd be interesting to know what age Ash was when when when she did that, and how long she'd been on the tour. If you look at say, the Raducanu decision to fire or, you know, give up Andrew Richardson is a complete nonsense, the girls are 18 years old, what does she know? What's best for her at that age? And, and and on the basis of the results that she's been given? And her results haven't been that great since. And, you know, we will never know what it could have been with Andrew. But yeah, I get it. And I think also, also, the bigger your team, the more dangerous it is. Because, you know, I know, I know, loads of of times, the fitness coach would be in the air with a tennis player, and have and have had influence on on coaches losing their jobs. And a lot of that also comes down to certain situations or certain periods of time, if if the player is in a slump, not not winning,

Daniel Kiernan  1:06:11

when it can't be the players fault. It's got to be someone to blame 100%.

Kieron Vorster  1:06:15

But then, on that basis, I remember the first year I started working with Wayne Ferreira in 1997. The first nine events, we went to last first round. And I was young, but I went to him and I said, Wayne, I, I actually don't, am I doing anything wrong? I started questioning myself, and credit to the guy as a person. And he said to me Voz, it's nothing to do with you. It's all me. He says you just keep doing the work that you're doing. And so so there's also that honesty as well. I mean, I'm the first one if I if I feel if I'm working with a player, and a lot of it comes down to if I'm not giving 100% or somebody's giving 100% You won't ask anymore. And you did go to the play and say, Hey, listen, I, if I'm doing something wrong, just to just tell me I'm ready to walk. It's not a problem.

Daniel Kiernan  1:07:02

But there's 100 there's, there's 254 People are leaving the Australian Open. Draw. Yeah, questioning whether they've got the right team around them. Because they've become in some ways, I know that extreme, but 254 have just lost, you know, so.

Kieron Vorster  1:07:21

I think I think there's a reality, this reality in terms of this 254 people playing that event, but how many out of those 254 actually believe they can win. There's a whole bunch of going around going, you know, I'm I'm looking at winning a couple rounds here, and I'm taking a big fat paycheck. My mentality is, yeah, every tournament, if I was playing, I would be playing to win, I probably lose first round, because I wasn't that great. But there's a big difference. And also that I think there'll be a wider, you know, obviously, the bigger the names, the bigger the teams, you know, the more people in the party, the more chance of there being a tear up, you know, within within

Daniel Kiernan  1:08:01

Xavi I want to bring you in on this point. You're certainly the biggest name in this room, you know, in terms of in terms of your, your singles career, in terms of the potential in terms of I would imagine having people around you, you know, especially, you know, being a very good Junior, all of those things, what's your, what's your memory of that time; agents, getting the right team knowing who to listen to, you know, maybe some of the challenges that you had.

Xavier Malisse  1:08:31

It was pretty tough. And that's where I was listening to Freddie and saying that you should get prepared for it. But honestly, it's tough to sometimes prepare for it because it can come really quick. You know, like, let's take out Raducanu, it comes within, you know, she has she did well, a Wimbledon, but it was more like a cute story. You know, everybody's like, Oh, cool, this and that. And then all of a sudden she wins. But it's yeah, it's the people around you. And like you say, everybody wants, you know, it goes quick. There's too much money out there. Now, everybody wants a piece quickly. You never know what's gonna happen, all these things. But it does happen quick. I know I didn't handle it. Well, the first two years is too much pressure because you go from, you know, just doing your work, to having to perform having to win matches. Now you got contracts, and now they're expecting you to win. And for me, I kind of zoned off for about a year, year and a half until I said Okay, enough for this and this is what I want. And this is the team I'm going to take but it does take a while to know who to pick but it's like Vossie said also you know, you got the mental coach there who wants to say something then this guy's gonna say other coaches no good you know, everybody's talking and it's it goes quick to you know, Even if you say jokingly, or something happens, it's in that player's head if somebody says something, and so if you want a good team around you, then it needs to be everybody. You know, I, when I work with Lloyd, now I say my thing on the tennis, I, you know, obviously, I've done the physical part, but there's the physical coach, I don't get involved, you know, even the week before the open, we had a week in Lexington, I didn't even go to the physical practices, I showed up 15 minutes before we were gonna hit, make sure everything was okay. And then it's my, my, my task to do my job. And then it's a task as a physical coach, again, to stretch them out this and then there's a task of the girlfriend keeping relaxed and enjoying life. But you know, when there's a lot of money involved, everybody wants to have a say, and everybody knows, or thinks they know better, and it just happens quickly. And the pressure builds quickly. And before you know it, you know, you the love for the game goes away a little bit. Now it's a mental thing has nothing to do. And then, you know, you change coaches, like say Raducanu changing coaches, I think is the worst decision she could have made. I don't know the whole insights that's for them and for the management to know, but

Kieron Vorster  1:11:14

I'm with you Xav, I'm 100% with you.

Xavier Malisse  1:11:17

It goes so quickly. And I don't mean a bad word by managers, but they are a big influence, you know, and they still work for a company unless you have a manager by yourself. But they have to put up the numbers too. And you know, who's gonna say as an 18 year old, hey I'm going to deny a $3 million deal because I want to progress first and see where it goes. I know I wouldn't, you know, I mean, so my language, but I would jump on it like everybody else, but we would jump on it.

Daniel Kiernan  1:11:49

How many golf club memberships is that Xavier? Do you know what I mean?

Xavier Malisse  1:11:52

Depends which club is joining

Kieron Vorster  1:11:57

You're spot on, because the managers influence the player on who the next coach will be 100%.

Xavier Malisse  1:12:04

And even the manager influences the parents. Yes, they're the ones that talk to the parents of the kids too young. I mean, I went through it, my parents didn't come from a tennis background, you know, my brother played pretty good. But you know, my parents, and luckily, we ran into Justine Henin's dad, who helped us a lot because she was with IMG and things were moving quickly. And that's how it went. So you need some luck on finding and running into the right person to give you advice. Let's say you don't have a management now, this is what happened to me, your top 10 in the world, top five juniors, and now they're all knocking on the door, who do you pick who has your best interest? Nobody knows who you're gonna ask you not have you know, you're not in that world. So it's very tough to, you have to be lucky to find the right person manager who has the best interest and as a person, first of all, and then as a player.

Kieron Vorster  1:13:00

And I think you'd be away from the big agencies to find that because I know loads and loads of like, like managers that are working, you know, on their own, who have to fight they have to fight for their own bread and water. So so they're the ones that if you know when you go to but but unfortunately, they don't have the powerhouse behind them to say, hey, we've got this deal, this deal that deals so the quick wins the quick win, that gets you to sign on the dotted line. That single person will know John Morris, John Morris is a prime example how he and I listened to his podcast, was it with you Kierno?

Daniel Kiernan  1:13:35

Oh, if it was a big name, it was definitely Control the Controllables.

Kieron Vorster  1:13:38

And, and the story about how we chased Kyrgios and how he got curious, but he was working on his own. You know, it's just, and then and then he went to IMG, and then now he's gone with Liberty, which which, you know, so he he's obviously moved on? Yeah, not anymore. But he's moved to what I'm saying he moved, he moved on. But it was a phenomenal story just just with him and his boy, his his player and what he did for Nick at that young age and how he chased him and how, you know, how we and he had his best interests at heart.

Daniel Kiernan  1:14:11

Jerry Maguire interesting.

Freddie Nielsen  1:14:13

If I can just tie up my point. Yeah, I think one of the things that I've what I think the way I think it's because I've always been very big on personal responsibility, and I refuse to lay blame on everybody on anybody else not saying having a pop at anybody. But that's just the way I think. And obviously being an absolute novice at tennis compared to all these guys were talking about, I have no way of relating to what it's like to be in that situation. So obviously, it's all theory from you on the outside. I'm never ever going to claim that it's easy. But we're told that's why we're talking about these extraordinary human beings here. We're not just talking about making it on tour. We're not talking about making top 10 We're talking about the people that are winning slams, you know, that's the ones we're talking about. We're talking about the few have individuals in every generation that rise to the top and are able to, to rise above all these difficulties and still make it and, and that's why I think that I have this is big expectations of him and, and you like you've always said to a certain point you do know within your team that you're going to make it somewhere. I mean, if you have, if you have a big product and you have an understanding of what you're going to go, I think there's, it's, it seems like a lot of it is too reactive to just go into the situation and we're gonna wing it isn't this and I just feel like, if you have a multimillion dollar franchise here, you must be prepared. And I've seen it work before. I've seen it with Caroline from Denmark, she handled it well. Sharapova was a boss, she absolutely handled it well and was able to maximize her commercial side while still being a competitive beast. So I think it's still possible. And that's what I'm talking about these, not not just all the youngsters coming through. But these extraordinary talents that ended up being the multiple slam champions, Ash Barty does a good job.

Daniel Kiernan  1:16:11

But the one thing I mean, it's a great discussion, and I am more than happy. I think it's amazing for the listeners to go off on these tangents. But the one thing just to tie up the women's event before I want to move into just a couple of stories to finish off is that's two years in a row, that there's been an NCAA female player in the final of the Australian Open. And also Danielle Collins this year University of Virginia. And last year, Jennifer Brady UCLA. And I think for years people were saying that US college doesn't work for the girls. There's some success stories coming through with the guys. Now maybe there is some spaces available. Because like you said, there's not some superstars that are taking up those spaces right now. But that has to be a good thing for US College, and I'm gonna go to my US college buddy. Hussy, me and Hussy used to compete against each other in the same conference. When we were in America. The college coaches must be loving life right now.

Stephen Huss  1:17:17

Yeah, Dan, it's a terrific advertisement for, you know, to try and get players to go to college. But yeah, I mean, you gotta remember what the actual numbers are. I mean, on the men's side, it's generally, you know, one or two a year that come out and end up being top 100 players, that's about the number. And on the women's side, it's less, but it is happening. So I do think that it's a fantastic pathway for the huge majority of players, not for everybody, there are some that are elite and probably shouldn't go but if you're umming and ahhing about it, and it isn't obvious that you should go pro you should probably go to college and then it's a matter of doing your homework and and doing your research and trying to get to a place where you know that a coach can help you develop and also an environment where you're going to get great competition. So yeah, I love the college pathway and it is for almost everybody. And you know, I spent about a year with Jenny Brady and very, very, very pleased and happy with the time that we worked together and very happy for the success she's having and going to college was absolutely the right decision for her. And also Danielle who spent the full four years in college and one you know, I think he won either two or three NCAA titles to it shows that it's yeah, it shows that it absolutely can be done.

Daniel Kiernan  1:18:47

And just to keep on this Hussy and it guys, please jump in on the US college stuff. Just we've got this fraternity thing going here. Me and Hussy about US college is for somebody like in moving into the juniors so it's always it's always good for people to hear the names of juniors So Bruno Kusa-Hara, you know, winning a three hour 43 minute match unbelievable like dramatic scenes, that Jakob Mensik who we'd beaten the final was cramping and couldn't get up off the floor. Unbelievable. And Kusa-Hara becomes the fourth American to win and he's following in good footsteps. Sebastian Korda, Donald Young and Andy Roddick. You know, some pretty good names there for him to be following. Does someone like Brunel is now a Grand Slam Junior Champion? Should he go to US college or should he go and play professional tennis?

Stephen Huss  1:19:44

If I can jump in? Later make the decision for him?

Daniel Kiernan  1:19:49

Freddie?

Freddie Nielsen  1:19:50

I will just say really quick, I can say as I'm Davis Cup captain in Denmark and I'm going to be the national coach in Denmark as well. I can say the scene is my players. We have both we have one of the biggest talents in world tennis we have Holger Rune who is 18 years old, and he's top 100 He should definitely not go to college. there's no point has it been, like a viable option for him to go to college because he's too good. But the rest of our Davis Cup team are college players, and they've, I think it's fair to say, gotten to that level they have gotten to because of college. And at the moment, we have, I don't know if he's still ranked number one, but we have the number one ranked guy in college and it's really, really an important has been an important pathway for our guys. That because for example, from a small town and country like ours, we don't have much infrastructure. So going to college has been essential. And I would like to encourage my players to take the college road because they can offer something that we might not be able to offer just yet in Denmark. So I'm very pro it but like I said, if you're extraordinary like Calico, and he also said the same don't go and also like as you say make sure you pick the right college because it's not just going to call it is the end all you got to pick the right school because you can be you can pick some pretty no some schools that are not great matches for you.

Stephen Huss  1:21:12

Yeah, and Bruno Kusa-Hara you know, he, he played the Nationals, the 18th nationals here in the US. And I think I can't remember if he lost in the quarterfinal or the semi finals, but you know, that was in August. So just a few months ago, four months ago. And then he goes to Australia and wins a slam. You know, I'm sure that there was some players that didn't go to Australia. So Australia doesn't often have the strongest, Junior Grand Slam draw. And I know that you know, American players, I can think of a girl two years ago who lost the French Open final she went ahead and went to college. So it's not that beyond the realm of possibility that you win a slam or play Final of a slam and go to college. It's possible but I think what Freddie said You know, if you're Holger Rune or if you're a player that is demonstrating success on the pro circuit, say, you know, in the top 250 in the world, then you want to consider okay, I'm not going to go but you know, just because you're winning a junior slam or a junior nationals, if you're not cutting it in Futures and, and getting your ranking up quickly, then I think college is a pretty viable option.

Kieron Vorster  1:22:18

Plus, you hit that you hit the nail on the head winning a junior Grand Slam means a crock of shit. I think you got to look at the senior ranking. And Freddie your point your point is more point if you know terms of structure of ATP ranking, then you make that decision, you know so so if you're ahead of the curve, and you're lightyears ahead of your peers and college is not an option

Daniel Kiernan  1:22:41

but Vossie if you win a junior Grand Slam, how's your trajectory looking?

Kieron Vorster  1:22:46

I'm gonna have loads of agents signing me up and I'm gonna go with Tiffany and I'm gonna go with Hugo Boss and etc, etc. No, I mean, I think I think that this I mean, it's sort of relative. I mean, yeah, it's a great achievement to win a junior slam don't get me wrong. But you know, people be looking at your you've won a junior slam, but what is what is the ATP ranking? You know, and then all WTA Yeah, WTA ATP, you know, so so it's all it's all relevant to your senior ranking versus you know, what your what you what you've done, moving

Daniel Kiernan  1:23:20

Moving into, into the girls singles, a story I really have to mention. And Lucie, I'd love to bring you in here. Maybe I'm gonna bring you in to name the names because there's such difficult names to pronounce. But the winner to look out for Petra Marcinko from Croatia won the, won the girls singles but then an amazing story that really kind of caught on. Because the first ever girl from Iran, and the first ever girl from Kenya to win to win grand slam Jr. events. The girl from Iran Meshkatolzahra, and Okutoyi from from Kenya, so some amazing stories that were coming out of Melbourne, across the board and in the juniors as well Lucie

Lucie Ahl  1:24:07

Yeah, definitely. I mean, you got pronounciation I think that was not bad at all. Yeah, I mean, I think obviously when you started to make history and open doors like that you're the first girls that have been able to do that. That's amazing for those countries and the impact that that will have on other players starting to get more opportunities is is amazing too in those two stories. And I think that's where we've talked a lot and we're about the players coming up to though we we live in a world that we didn't actually grow up in I think we've got to remember that it's pretty everything's instant now and you know, you press a button and you can get get something you're on social media. So that platform can be really positive but it can also be damaging. I mean, in those regards. It was great because there was a lot of All publicity in the platform was used in the right way. But I think it's it's tough for the players these days, there's a lot of a lot of pressure on their shoulders. Totally agree that the team's now a massive and even the players, you know, back in the day, they'd be talking about their coach. Now they're talking about their team and you know, the rankings, maybe not there. And you've got then a lot of people that have got their own agendas and their own interests in terms of what they want to get out of the player and maybe the players not at the center of it. So it's, it's difficult. It's a totally different world. And we have to obviously, appreciate that it will be interesting over the next sort of 5, 10 years to see, you know, what players, whether we're going to have a lot of players chopping and changing at the top end, or whether we'll see what we've seen over the last however many years with the players that have been right up there at the top. I mean, in the juniors interested in the girls, both of them were 16. So I think, as Steven said that they certainly in Aus, you don't maybe get the strongest field but I think certainly in the with the girls, they don't tend to play in their last few years because they're already having an impact that WTA Tour level. But the two players they think Belgium girl she wants her out in the lead up event and Petra, she she won Orange Bowl, didn't she she was seeded one there. So certainly two players to look out for.

Daniel Kiernan  1:26:37

On that point. I'm just having a little laugh. Yeah, I remember playing Wimbledon in 2004. And my family were following it on telly text. I mean, it's unbelievable how it changes. We we had a girl from the Academy Rosheen that played the Australian Open girls main draw. And we all watched it on Eurosport. I mean, it's like, like, watching it. Like the whole the whole Academy is up at like two o'clock in in the morning watching this girl play rather than on like three two one on telly text, watching the score change every five minutes to quickly introduce

Lucie Ahl  1:27:19

e

Daniel Kiernan  1:27:19

it's amazing, guys, we we could go on you guys have been brilliant as always. I've absolutely loved it. I have. I have a quick fire quick fire round to finish, as is our tradition. And what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna give you five tennis players. And I apologize that four male and one is female, but the you will see why. Because we're talking about the guts of that, obviously happening right now with Rafael Nadal winning 21. And when I give those five names, you've got to tell me how many Grand Slams they're going to win in their careers. And the names are the three going for the goats, rather Roger Novak. In case you don't know. Roger is on 20 Novak is on 20 and Rafael Nadal is now on 21. Medvedev, I know we talked a little bit about him for me. He is I said it earlier. He reminds me so much of Djokovic like I think nobody else on the planet was beating him today. You know, apart from Rafael Nadal coming up with that unbelievable effort. He's got that ability even when he's matchpoint down against Felix. So you just have this strong feeling. He was going to hit a big first serve hits the fastest serve of the day, and goes on to win the match. He's the fourth name. And then I think we're all in agreement that Ash Barty is very much taking the WTA tour by storm. You know she's now one on hardcourts clay courts and grass courts, how long? And how many she can win. We don't. know so those are your five names. You need to give me five numbers. So give me the name and the number Xavier you are going to start us off. So

Xavier Malisse  1:29:16

Federer's gonna stay at 20 Unfortunately, Nadal 22 Djokovic I'm gonna say 24 Medvedev 8 and Barty How many does she have now? Three, 13 for Barty.

Stephen Huss  1:29:44

So you're still going Osaka 20

Xavier Malisse  1:29:46

Osaka 20. No. win a game.

Daniel Kiernan  1:29:55

It's been a tough year Xavier.

Kieron Vorster  1:29:58

We've all been there. Varzi so I'm gonna go Medvedev four Federer stay on 20 nadal stay on 21, and I'm going Djokovic 23 and ash Barty seven. Let's

Lucie Ahl  1:30:17

see. I'm gonna go Bharti eight Medvedev six jurkovich 24 Federer 20 and Rafa 22

Kieron Vorster  1:30:30

Yeah, hanging your hats on the clay.

Lucie Ahl  1:30:34

One more.

Daniel Kiernan  1:30:36

Hussy?

Stephen Huss  1:30:39

Roger 20 Novak 24 Rafa. 22 Medvedev five, and Barty nine.

Daniel Kiernan  1:30:51

Freddie?

Freddie Nielsen  1:30:53

I will say Roger stays on 20 Unfortunately, Rafa 22 Novak 25. Medvedev 5, Barty 8

Daniel Kiernan  1:31:08

You are all wrong? Unfortunately. It's it's Roger 20 It's Rafa and Novak 23 each year kind of Rafa has to be he has to be at least on level. Medvedev is also going to win a lot more than any of you have said he's going to win 12

Xavier Malisse  1:31:34

What are you on? Spanish wine? Or what do you do?

Daniel Kiernan  1:31:40

In 12 years time, we'll pull up this clip, if it's still good if we're still using and Ash Barty is going to win 10. So that's I mean, we might have to wait and see who's right. But let's see. But the French Open will be the next one. I think it'll take a big person to go against Nadal and Barty the way things are going, you know, they're our 2022 Australian champions, you guys are all amazing champions, again, given your time up to come on to the podcast. So a big personal thank you to you all. And on behalf of the listeners, a massive thank you as well, guys.

Xavier Malisse  1:32:26

Thanks.

Freddie Nielsen  1:32:28

Thanks for having us.

Kieron Vorster  1:32:29

Thanks. Thank you. Thank you

Stephen Huss  1:32:30

Thanks, take care.

Daniel Kiernan  1:32:31

And as the Australian arm comes to an end, we've all got to find something to do with ourselves when we wake up early in the morning. After the last two weeks of switching the phone on getting Eurosport on finding out what's been going on overnight, and then watching whatever matches come on trying to make an excuse to not have to go to work. We've got to go back to normal life now. And it won't be long before we have the US hardcourt swing. Before you know it. The clay court season we'll be back. And there's going to be plenty more tennis in 2022. I just want to say a big, big thank you to my panel of guests. I know I've said it before, but maybe you're listening for the first time. They don't charge a penny for that. They give their time up. They come on with a willingness to share the willingness to give their experience and insight and beyond anything else. I think for me, it's just so much fun. You know, I can't tell you how much fun it was, I'm sitting there with three former Grand Slam winners and and people that have just incredible experience in the game in all the levels. And I love I value I cherish that time that I get with with the team with the panel. And I thought having Stephen Huss coming in was it was a fantastic addition. So thank you Hussy. As you might have heard at the start, this was Episode 149 which means it's 150 Next, and a little admission. I've already done the chat for the episode for 150. I let the cat out the bag. In the last episode. I've been promising this guest for a long time, we finally managed to catch up. Mardy Fish is our guest that will be coming to you next Tuesday. I promise you. This is a one you need to share far and wide. If you haven't yet watched his Untold on Netflix, please do. It'll set up the podcast very nicely. At the end of that podcast, I guarantee you'll be racing to try and watch it an incredible story. Someone who has opened up and helped so many people with his mental health battles, his high profile mental health battles, but also someone who got The World Number seven, and US number one male player at a time as he came up with Andy Roddick was taking over the mantle from Pete Sampras and Andre Agassi. And he also plays golf to a pretty high level as well. So he was a quite fantastic guest. Next Tuesday that one will be coming out. Lots more coming your way or in the coming weeks, the coming months. Thank you all for the support. But until next time, I'm Dan Kiernan and we are Control the Controllables.