Wimbledon 2022 Review

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Daniel Kiernan  00:09

Welcome to Episode 169 of Control the Controllables. And how mad does that sound saying 169? You know how, how have we had so many conversations with so many amazing people, a big thank you to you all who have made it possible, you know the guests, but mainly you at home that are listening, or in the car or wherever you are listening to this. It is it is greatly appreciated for myself and the amazing team behind me who Control the controllables and we've got another fantastic episode for you today. You know, I said lots This is my favorite. But when you get a chance to speak to these amazing people, and so fresh off the greatest tennis tournament in the world at Wimbledon, it really does put such a massive smile on my face.

Neal Skupski  01:04

I was lucky enough to be sat next to Rod Laver at the time. He was oh well actually, so to speak. Yeah. Which is quite remarkable. He started talking to me about saying that Norrie is not going to win this match, his words were Djokovic is too much of a backboard. They're similar and Norrie has to come to the net and change things up. And then Norway started to come, come to the net and it was missed a couple of easy volleys. I think the backhand volley crosscourt in the second set to maybe hold and then it actually missed it to actually get broke. And then Rod Laver was like I could teach him that volley. Rod labor say that.

Daniel Kiernan  01:42

And my panel this evening, where do I start? You know, I have to start with our back to back Wimbledon champions, Neal skupski and Desiraen Krawcyk, two mixed doubles titles in two years. Last year they came on, they gave us an exclusive to say they were going to play this year. It didn't quite pan out like that at first, but it did in the end. And they came away with that title again. listen in to find out if they give us another exclusive for Wimbledon 2023 And then Lissey Barnett if anybody watched Wimbledon and had the fortune of seeing that epic tie break, as her and Jonny O'Mara in the mixed doubles, played against Venus Williams and Jamie Murray. She comes on to talk about her first Wimbledon experience and what an experience. It was, got Kieran Vorster someone who is been a big supporter of control the controllables the current fitness coach of Liam Brody, and he was there in the box is Liam Broady took out Diego Schwartzman in the second round at the All England Club, and then Freddie Nielsen, the 10 year anniversary of him winning Wimbledon with Jonny Marray. He went back this year to experience the legends event. It didn't quite go as well as 10 years ago. But he's with us he brings his amazing insight. And then we got a little special guest appearances. Paul Jubb comes on and joins the panel halfway through to let us know about his time playing against Nick Kyrgios in the first round at Wimbledon before carry us beat him seven, five and the fifth set and went on to make the final losing to Novak Djokovic on Sunday. It is a brilliant conversation full of laughs full of insights full of knowledge. And there's no way I would have preferred to be last night and having these amazing conversations with these amazing people in the tennis world. And I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. I'm going to pass you over to my Wimbledon 2022 panelists a big welcome to my panelists of the this episode of control the controllables we all do and guys. Lots of Wimbledon legends in front of me lots of amazing events. What What, uh, two weeks that that was it SW 19. You know, I was I was stuck in Spain. Watching it all on TV whenever I got the chance. And all of you guys were there. And I think I want to I want to start off and to go to you Freddie first. Talk about the I don't want to jump into our gloating yet of our picks. You know, I'm going to I'm going to save. I'm going to save the gloating till a little bit later. What What were some of the highlights for you of the event over the last couple of weeks?

Freddie Nielsen  04:47

Well, I think personally, one of the biggest highlights was how little they talked about the lack of points and the lack of Russians and Belarusians at the tournament. I think there were so many good stories times this year at Wimbledon so many great matches in all the competitions a lot of new faces that you kind of forget forgot about all the all the drama beforehand and it was able to be a standout tournament that that had so many amazing storylines. I mean we can go through all the storylines, obviously but it's very rare. I think that that you have like Tatiana Maria. mom of two has never made it past second round of a slam make semis you have Ons Jabeur who was obviously a role model for her region of the world and women's sports. You have Nick Kyrgios an amazing talent that's always been expected to do things who all of a sudden did things and not without controversy on the way of course you had Novak who was now equally competes seven seven Wimbledon's you had an unbelievable men's doubles, tournaments and, and so on the I think the I think it was a really, really great championship to be honest.

Daniel Kiernan  05:59

And wheelchair tennis came to the forefront as well we saw I think I think that was the first time they've played on Court One as well. You know, a couple of a couple of amazing matches. And it really was it stuck out now my one of my big highlights but I would arguably say my highlight and I'm not just saying this because Lissey is on this on this show. But that tie break Barent O'Mara against Venus Williams and Jamie Murray 18-16 in the third set was the most incredible drama I think I've seen in a long long time and we've got you here to talk about it as well so tell us what was it like to be on that court because watching it was was absolutely incredible.

Lissey Barnett  06:50

I don't even know I just saw I just think like well the stars kind of aligned it was obviously my first one with him which Johnny didn't even realize until after this match and I literally I remember bouncing the ball at one point and thinking this is literally your dream

Freddie Nielsen  07:13

people that played their first Wimbledon

Lissey Barnett  07:18

Yeah, it did not Yeah, it was just crazy. Obviously like playing Jamie and Venus was like unbelievable. And in Jamie has been so supportive. And my first sight taste of paying with like some amazing pairs was Ballard Brett's after locked down. So he's been a massive support for LeBron my career. So to play him on, one of the biggest courts was incredible. And it was my obviously my first one wouldn't say all my family and friends were very, very excited. And some of them had been up since 430 In the morning queuing. So wherever I looked, I could see and I could hear friends and family which definitely helped. At one point, I was in a tie break and I was bouncing the ball. I had already started my service. And my friend from school shouts finished them Lissey, like, that's fine finishing. Oh my god. So I couldn't help but laugh and I have friends shouting things like that out. And one of my friends from home was shouting, to my dad, Nigel, can I marry your daughter? Right? It was just fun and games. And I mean, everyone knows Johnny. He's like, really good spirited, like really funny, like diving all over the court. I didn't know this lad before. And in our first match, he did this and saying, like, jump and landed on his stomach. And I was like, are you okay? And he's like, Yeah, fine. Apparently he does all the time. So it was just brilliant. And some of the tennis was just insane. And some of the rallies and I don't know, like, yeah, at least I didn't hit my partner in the back of the head like I did in my first my second match for live. It was a second set of that was all I cared about.

Daniel Kiernan  09:06

Johnny Johnny O'Mara, I've always thought that his ease made for that stage. He's like, he is a superstar in terms of you put him on that stage. He's got he's got the way about it. He loves the crowd. He gets it all going. So it must have been fun being being on that stage with him.

Lissey Barnett  09:26

It was so fun, I think. I mean, taking it back to our first match, I just lost in a tie break in the third live and I was really a bit heartbroken because I felt like we really put everything out there. And I went back out an hour and a half later with Johnny. And he immediately made me like laugh. And like we were getting aced by this guy who just won the French Open men's. And I was like there's no chance we're going to break this guy and he was like, must have come on Trevor Smith, and I'm like, Who are you? Brilliant out super noon. So you how can you not laugh at that. And obviously, if you're like, relaxed and having a swing, we're gonna play better. And we played some really good tennis and that. So then when I went into the next match, I just felt like okay, well, he's got my bag. And if I'm a bit nervous, he's, he's definitely gonna just do something crazy and get the crowd involved. And like he did a challenge in the first like few games and started like clapping along with the crowd. And I was like, this is brilliant. So of course, I started getting involved and like trying to put my hands up to try and get the crowd going. And it was just yeah, it didn't seem like a tennis match. At that point. It was more of like a just, yeah, as a show at that point.

Daniel Kiernan  10:39

Absolutely. And Vozzie to bring you in. Welcome. Welcome to the podcast again. Good to have you. What was what was your highlight? You know, what was I know you were there with Liam Brody, who? Liam, I have to admit, Liam. Liam brought me to tears when he beat Schwartzman seeing that match and seeing and knowing what Liam's been through for so many years and you know for you to be in his corner that must have been a special moment. Was that the standout or was there some other highlights that jumped out for you?

Kieron Vorster  11:14

I mean, obviously for First of all, just just to say we were out with Dave at home watching your MCs double and I've never seen Dave as big as yours was like jumping up and down screaming at the TV. And I've never seen a guy you know so so happy I mean, he went from mainstream watching mainstream Wimbledon to requesting to watch the next levels on iPlayer which we did and he was so happy for you and he actually said you were the standout player on the court and I tend to agree with that so well done well done on that

Lissey Barnett  11:52

yeah it's unbelievable Yeah, but

Kieron Vorster  11:53

yeah, yeah, he was literally you can do he was so happy like that one single title for me yeah obviously for him doing what he did was great. I think was a huge monkey off his back in terms of beating a guy you know sportsman and and on a show Court I think you know, he proved himself that that you know, he can mix the the best and then the other the other the other standout for me was the girl double Angela aka toy from from from Kenya I'm born in Kenya so I thought that was an amazing asset credibly you know for her to have done what she's done and then you know, carry that flag for Kenyan tennis and probably you know also for for Africa as well not just from what on Joburg done as well so I think you know, this this loads but I mean, you know that there's obviously the wheelchair stuff as well. Alfie figured just just coming short, but you play a ridiculous number of hours I think he had played like seven hours a day two days before the day before the final and then he played a three and a half hour whatever final So yeah, that's probably are the ones that stand out for me. But I think on a personal note really pleased to learn it actually really pleased the day Sam as well since 2014, and you know, he's he's a very very good coach a lot of empathy you know, care for the player is incredible. And you know, like even even by you know, the care that he has for that program, you know, you're telling me about but you that you're you know, went through the juniors and you know, you're a real boss girl and come through and you know, he his passion is unbelievable and he's certainly certainly a coach that wouldn't take on a role for money you know, he takes on a role we can take make a difference to the player and get them to their own destinations for

Daniel Kiernan  13:47

And Neal skupski Double Wimbledon champion. I at this point can't talk to you about your highlight without bringing your doubles partner in so Desirae thank you for jumping in and joining the panel and back to back Wimbledon champions of Does that sound

Desirae Krawczyk  14:10

Sounds good to me. Little surreal though, actually. When the same hardware even better.

Daniel Kiernan  14:19

Well, we'll get onto that in a minute. But God but how how does it feel I guess the second time around and I know you're becoming a bit of a veteran that these grand slam things but Wimbledon the first time is I guess completely surreal the second time or not that you know what's coming but you're you're a bit more used to it you're a bit more a part of the fabric of the All England Club Now was it? Was it a different feeling better feeling worse feeling?

Desirae Krawczyk  14:51

Um, obviously the first time I won Wimbledon I was shocked. I cried still. Second times still shocked, cried still. But no, I think it's tough to back it up, obviously, I think our whole Wimbledon, we had a tough first round. So it mean going from almost, it was a tough first round and then making it to the finals and winning. It's just crazy. So yeah, it was even better to win it again. But I think it still hasn't really hit me that I've won another grand slam. So I don't know when it will hit me. But maybe if I keep looking at my trophy, I don't know.

Daniel Kiernan  15:35

But it's also Wimbledon, Wimbledon mixed doubles. There's something special and not that mixed doubles isn't special elsewhere. But it feels as if the crowd at Wimbledon, they really buy into the mixed doubles. It's like it's such a special event. It's often save for the last match on the show caught at the end of the day. And in the whole crowd. seems to just go crazy for it. You know, you got lots of high profile names tend tend to play the event as well. Is that Is that true for you as a player as well? That is slightly different at Wimbledon to the other events.

Desirae Krawczyk  16:14

Yeah, I definitely think maybe that's why I play with a Brit. Get a lot of fans for our matches. But I think we've had such a great crowd every single match. Every single Yeah, every single match our first round, or semis. I think every seat was taken we put on court to I believe. And everyone came up to the Nadal match and it was packed. I think everyone had a little bit too many Pimms, but it helps in our favor. But it was it's been a great environment. I think they definitely love the mixed doubles and doubles in general. It Wimbledon and then I just thoroughly enjoy. It's such a good fun atmosphere. And it helps us to play better. But I definitely feel that.

Daniel Kiernan  16:58

And for you, Neal, this year, you had your family there. You know, I know last year you didn't. You didn't have your parents there at the final to see Ken as well. And with Ken retiring, and you know, his final Wimbledon and to see the kids there and Haley and everyone. What a what a what a special special moment. That must have been.

Neal Skupski  17:19

Yeah, it was amazing. I mean, especially for me intended. He had retired and then he'd gone back home and come back in the morning for the final left and got back at 3am. Kids were dying. They were going to school the next day. So they're a bit grumpy. But yeah, obviously, there's meeting my like kind of family for the first time, because of the bubble last year and all COVID so nice to have my parents in the box for the first time. We met again. And then just to see the faces. It was an incredible thing for for myself and my family. And it was nice for them to meet the Skupskis.

Desirae Krawczyk  17:58

I actually thought his dad was the LSU like recruiting there actually. I forgot I headed. And I went up to him. I was like, oh, like he asked me something about Neal. And I was like, Oh, are you recruiting here? And then in my back my head I was like, oh my god, I think that's Neal's Dad, it looks just like him. And the next day, he's like, Did you think I was working for LSU? Or I was recruited? I think yes. I just thought all this LSU here and I just I don't know, I just keep it together. And I was like, I'm so sorry. That was the first time I actually met you.

Daniel Kiernan  18:31

I have not seen him for 18 years without an LSU top on.

Neal Skupski  18:39

Yeah. He's LSU's biggest promoter

Daniel Kiernan  18:42

is it's unbelievable. And Dez I have to ask you as well. Mixed Doubles. You've obviously got a bit of a knack for this, you know that? There's a what for for mixed doubles, Grand Slams that you've got now? What is the secret to being so good at mixed doubles?

Desirae Krawczyk  19:01

I don't know finding a good partner. Yeah, I don't know. I just feel like I think I just have maybe it's as bad but I have a lot more fun. I feel like there's less pressure in a way. Also a little bit of pressure just because I've won a few of them. And I feel like I want more. But I don't know, I just feel like it brings a different kind of side of me on the court. But maybe a little bit more confidence because I have a good partner and I can feed off that energy. And you know, I have a good chemistry with Neal. So it just I don't know why it works. It just works and I like it.

Daniel Kiernan  19:47

And this is the moment where we talk partners.

Neal Skupski  19:51

Oh, here we go. Then because you remember last year,

Desirae Krawczyk  19:57

Here we go.

Daniel Kiernan  19:58

I remember very well.

Neal Skupski  20:00

We had we had an exclusive on the show.

Daniel Kiernan  20:03

I was like a proud Uncle, you know, thinking when I when the draw came out, I was like, if I'm honest, I was half thinking in the speech at the end, we were gonna get mentioned leave here. But a proud uncle I was at the draw came out and I was like, yes, you're playing together, they've stuck to their word. And then I then heard that the partnership only came together two weeks before Wimbledon, which made me think that maybe it wasn't a Control the Controllables exclusive after all.

Desirae Krawczyk  20:37

Two weeks? It was during Berlin

Neal Skupski  20:41

Maybe three? Yeah. Not not not long.

Desirae Krawczyk  20:44

So no, not long.

Daniel Kiernan  20:47

So tell us tell us the story does.

Neal Skupski  20:51

Neal, you want me to tell her?

Desirae Krawczyk  20:56

Okay, well, basically. I was going to originally play with Joe. So my flip flop last year, obviously I Okay. Okay with Neil. But then I was like, well, I'll flip flop. So I played with Neal at French. And I was gonna play with Joe at Wimbledon. So we played French. And then a couple of weeks later, Joe was kind of like, oh, I don't know, if I want to play. It's just, it's a lot of matches a lot of sets three to five. For at Wimbledon. It's a lot for them. And I think he was kind of hesitant and didn't want to risk, you know, getting injured in the mixed or whatnot. And so he was kind of like, well, we can sign. But I'm just not sure. And I was like, No, I want to be sure I want to like I want to win. And so I was like I'll try and find someone else. So of course, I text Neal. And I'm like, Hey, you probably set me again. It's me. Remember me? Would you want to play Wimbledon? Just let me know. Your set. No worries. Cool. I figured he'd be set because it's three weeks out, you know, Neal plans ahead? Like anyone. And he texted me and he's like, Oh, I'm actually set with another player. But let me get back to you. I was like, okay, no pressure. Cool. gets back to me the next day. And he's like, Sure, let's play and I was like, Okay, great. This is great. And I don't know if I should be going into more detail but basically as a chain reaction because everyone kept switching partners because I started the trend. So Neal was set with someone else. Then she needed to find someone in this girl or Gabby had to find steal someone else's partner and the other girl had to find another partner. So it was just a whole chain reaction because of my part. But you know what? I'm happy I did it. And I have no regrets.

Daniel Kiernan  22:50

Very good. So we're now at this point again, deja vu. Exclusive. We felt we had the exclusive this time last year. We didn't really we could pretend we did. But you went against the the words that were set. In this in this episode of control the controllables did I went

Desirae Krawczyk  23:14

I went against it. So but I ended up same partner. Good

Daniel Kiernan  23:21

2023 The Triple Crown? The Triple Crown mixed doubles champions at Wimbledon. Surely nothing can get in the way of this next year. Do we have a 2023 exclusive that skupski and Krawczyk will play together next year at SW19

Desirae Krawczyk  23:44

just signed a contract for this to be exclusive. I think he was gonna say Neil's gonna send me a contract. He's gonna sign it.

Neal Skupski  23:54

Even if she says yes, I'm not sure she's gonna go through with it.

Desirae Krawczyk  23:58

I am gonna go through that. You know what? I am gonna say it here. For sure. I'm gonna go through with it. 2023 Neal, skupski and Dez are playing at Wimbledon. You heard it here we go.

Neal Skupski  24:09

There we go down. It's actually coming

Desirae Krawczyk  24:11

Out of my mouth saying that. I can say yes, I actually confirmed it. But don't even ask me. Does anyone want to play with me?

Neal Skupski  24:21

Of course, I wouldn't. Okay,

Desirae Krawczyk  24:23

there we go. Perfect.

Daniel Kiernan  24:24

So when so when you win a third. All we ask is a little shout out in the winner's speech of where of where the magic of where the magic happened. Dez

Desirae Krawczyk  24:35

I didn't even say anything. Do I was like speechless.

Daniel Kiernan  24:40

I have to say it was it was emotional watching. You know, you could feel the emotion from both of you. It was it was incredible. The the semi final I must admit, I was starting to think Oh no, this is not looking too good at this moment. But you did a great job to get out of that one. But there was no doubt in the final For me, you know, as soon as the final started, you looked very confident you looked in control. I know things can change, but serving for the serving for the match, Neil found those first serves no problem. And, and well done, guys. Dez I know that you have to have to jump. But thank you for thank you for jumping on and joining the panel. And we will be in touch. This is This is better than a contract.

Desirae Krawczyk  25:30

Thank you so much for having me.

Daniel Kiernan  25:31

Well done. And good luck the rest of the summer. Thank you. It was one of my other big highlights it was it was very special to see all of the all of the champions, you know, 100 years at Wimbledon, seeing them all come out onto the court. And what what a lovely moment, that was when John McEnroe went off script. And he spoke about Sue Barker, who after 30 years on the BBC, who I think all of us, you know that sounds and can TV clips, I guess is how we all have memories of our childhood. And I think Sue Barker has played a massive role in that. And to see all of those players coming together to see the emotion that she had to see all of the all of those nice words. But a couple of things. A couple of notable absentees Ash Barty unfortunately, wasn't there. But I do believe she's been over in the UK, playing golf at St. Andrews, which was which is quite interesting, you know, kind of done with tennis come over and other gave a golf. Serena Williams also wasn't there. Obviously her her comeback didn't last so long. Even though it was a very dramatic match. The kind of almost started Wimbledon, I think the Serena match, you know, the late match the night match, you know, it was it was incredibly exciting. And then it went into harmony town the next day pulling out of the women's doubles. And then we had a doubles partner, putting all of all of those messages up on Instagram. And then she went back on it. And then when she won the next round, she went back and put something else on and the world of social media. But the story that then brings me to is and I want to take this to you, Freddy, because I know you're very similar age to Mr. Federer. Roger was there. You know, it was like James Bond it arrived. You have all of the cameras and the pictures. But he has spoken out today. And it sounds quite ominous, the way that he's spoken. That, you know, it sounds like maybe starting to prepare us that that he might not be coming back to play competitively. You know, and and I think all of us imagining tennis without Roger Federer, that at the forefront is going to be a very difficult thing for us to get our heads around. So what do you what do you think? Will we see Roger Federer back on the court Wimbledon back on the courts on the professional tour?

Freddie Nielsen  27:59

I have a feeling that he will give it a go somehow. What that leads to I'm not perfectly sure. I don't think he will be Grand Slam competitive ever again. That's just I mean, I can't rule him out because he's Roger Federer. But based on what I saw last time you came back and the competitiveness of a slam winning seven matches best of five. I don't know it just seems like his body has been through too much. But I would be, you know, more than thrilled if he if he was able to but it just seems like it's it's very difficult for him. At this age, recover, recovery is a little bit longer. I don't think he's the kind of guy who will be happy playing at a mediocre level based on nothing. I don't know him personally. So it's just a feeling I have. So I think he's not going to be comfortable doing what Andy is doing, for example, battling through the challengers

Daniel Kiernan  28:56

He kind of said that today. That's what he's kind of said I think today that's, you know, he prefer not to come back and he's not going to come back and and really be pushing, pushing for.

Freddie Nielsen  29:06

I haven't seen this quote today. But I'm not surprised for that. And my attitude the last few years has been whatever we see from him is a bonus, and I don't expect much.

Daniel Kiernan  29:18

And, Neal to come back to you. I actually put a tweet out throughout Wimbledon asked and I said and to share your sentiments Freddie I said it's so it's so long. I've not even thought about the points. You know, we were seeing these emotional, these emotional tennis players winning matches or losing matches. And it didn't seem to mean anything any different to them. You know, and I think there was some fear that maybe it would I think we all knew that the magic of Wimbledon would ultimately win out over that. But as a player I guess someone who you've gone another amazing year. You know every Every Grand Slam is a fantastic opportunity to push the ranking up even higher. Did it cross your mind? And within the locker room? Was it a topic of conversation that people were talking about the points that might have been?

Neal Skupski  30:16

No, I mean, I don't think I ever had a conversation with another player during the two weeks about points. There was a lot of talk about the points when it first came out at different tournaments. But then during Wimbledon, I mean, I think that mean the prestige of the tournament itself. I mean, I can't speak about other players. But for me, I wasn't too bothered about playing for points this year. I mean, it was it's Wimbledon. I've grown up watching on the TV, watching my idols compete on center court. So having the opportunity to play Wimbledon once again, is a bonus for me. So I didn't really worry about the points. I know there's situations where like, Joker, which is won Wimbledon, and he's actually gone down to like, world. Yeah, which is, which is quite crazy. And like Mechtech Savage, they've dropped in the rankings and people that didn't do too well last year, like myself, I mean, can only one we win one round last year. And I've kind of made it to the third round this year, but I've actually gone up in the rankings, so I've kind of benefited from it. But no one's really talking about that situation until after the after, like now and seeing jock which drop seeing like metal at the top. So yeah, I mean, there were there wasn't much talk, from my experiences in the locker room about the points it was more about. It was so nice to just being back at Wimbledon have a full crowds and seeing some amazing tennis again.

Daniel Kiernan  31:52

They always think there was someone like and Lizzie you may be able to give us a bit of an insight into this someone like a Heather Watson, who you know Heather has dropped to I think 120 in the world. And And there she is making fourth round of a Grand Slam, which is going to catapult her I would imagine up to 70 Maybe just guessing you know That must hurt her a little bit.

Lissey Barnett  32:19

At the end of the day, you have to figure out what your why is and I think looking at her responses and the way she fought in those matches. You can definitely see that her Why was not necessarily points. She was very gutsy coming through that first match. I know it wasn't her best tennis to start, but she definitely ended like really strong. And then her speeches afterwards, she was just a mate. Like she just loved being there. Like love being in front of the British crowds. Like just love competing and no one can ever take away that fourth round from her. And looking back we're not going to be thinking oh, like she was 770 in the world. But at that point we're going to be thinking she made fourth round Wimbie like you don't really think about the points especially if you're a spectator or another player like you're just thinking about how far they got in the tournament. I have no idea what ranking Freddie was when he played Wimbledon but I know who won it.

Freddie Nielsen  33:18

Nobody knew.

Lissey Barnett  33:20

You didn't even know so

Kieron Vorster  33:23

I knew it was 180 singles there or there abouts.

Lissey Barnett  33:27

But at the end of the day, I don't think they really mattered I don't think any of the players when you actually got I mean like Neil said like when you're actually in in the moment you weren't thinking about the points you're just thinking about like playing and enjoying it and fighting and winning. So yeah, I think I don't think Heather's really think about it too much now maybe she will be later and she's well mixed. Mixed up

Freddie Nielsen  33:50

If I can jump if I can jump in with one point to that. I mean I agree with what you said that you don't think about it but it's the ones that are I mean, Heather has been hiring before Novak obviously he's got his life all sorted out it's the it's the it's the game changes that I think about what the points that Maria has the feminized joven the ones we think this can make this is a definite career change. And I just feel bad for those guys because

Lissey Barnett  34:16

You've got to feel bad yeah, but I mean Tatiana, she's playing so well like you'd hope that she can back it up and her results before Wimbledon were amazing and that's how she got into Wimbledon in the first place. So hopefully like she'll stick keep by catapulting up the rankings has she is playing really well. And maybe that's the thing like you don't want to base your whole year around one result.

Freddie Nielsen  34:39

No. It is a way to get into tournaments. I mean, it's I know they're they're not top 100 At the moment that once I spoke about but you're absolutely right, it gives confidence that you can use for the other tournaments I just feel bad for them because I think it was so unnecessary. I still do I think

Lissey Barnett  34:58

oh, I Yeah, yeah. I think we all have an opinion on it. I mean, Liv and I won our first round match as well, we definitely needed the points because we were wildcards into it. So, yeah. But at the end of the day, I'm never gonna say that. I'd rather Yeah, I mean, obviously prefer to have points. And I don't know who really punished in the end. But I think that's another discussion.

Daniel Kiernan  35:21

But mixed mixed doubles has always been an exhibition event. There's, there's no point mixed doubles. But we've got two people in this Chatto, and when Deseret was on as well that that have had arguably their greatest sporting moments. You know, and I'm sure it doesn't matter to you guys that you don't get points exhibition, the you've won Wimbledon championship or you've won a massive match. That's another that's another conversation for sure. Absolutely. You know, and you get a lot more people playing it as well. So but maybe they shouldn't for some of the ones that have got the wildcards in but I think yeah, I think that's that's another topic, but I want to I want to move into the very controversial topic without digging in, of not allowing the Russians fellow Russians, obviously Varzi, I'll bring you in at this point, because we spoke about this in quite a lot of detail. I think it was in our friendship and preview. And before the Wimbledon women's final, John McEnroe, said I don't mean to get into politics here. But she is Russian, right? It's sort of strange, because this whole whole ordeal of not allowing Russians to play. We've then got and had someone who was born in Moscow, lives in Moscow, for all intensive purposes. Is Russian changed four years ago, I would imagine for more funding purposes, as happens in the tennis world. It almost felt like it was destiny. It was going to happen from quarterfinal stage, that this was going to happen. What's your thoughts on that multi

Kieron Vorster  37:07

Yeah, I mean, I put a tweet out the irony, the irony of the Wimbledon champion, she's, she's Russian she's she's Russian and naturalized Kazakhstan and you know, she's more Russian Linteus Kazakhstan. And I was told on good knowledge that he's only been to Kazakhstan twice. She trained she trained outside the country and and the reason why she she changed allegiance was was all funding base. I mean, Ben Ben Rothenberg was scientists sugar coated, it was just a load of shit. I mean, it's basically then he moved because the funding opportunity,

Daniel Kiernan  37:43

Which happens, it happened. I mean, you could argue the same with Cameron Norrie, when he was 16 years old. You know, it happens. It happens in lots of cases.

Kieron Vorster  37:54

What was interesting is Kate Middleton never shook her hand. Did whether that was circumstantial? Circumstantial or not? Because obviously, she was holding the trophy that she couldn't shake her hand.

Daniel Kiernan  38:11

I don't want to get too hung up on that topic, because we've been there before. But she is a hell of a tennis player. And Ons Jabeur is a one that I believe myself might have picked. I think that might have been one of my picks Freddie. I also, I also believe one of one of my picks, Anisimova, beat Coco Gauff, who was Vozzie and Freddie's big pick. In our Lizzy. We went big or there was some of the some of the guys went big on Iga Swiatek, on the women's side. You know, I think a couple of us were quite strong that maybe Wimbledon she's not quite ready for that. You know, what was what was your take Friday on the women's event this year.

Freddie Nielsen  38:57

I thought it was a fantastic event. Very packed with the with storylines, a lot of positive stories as well. was all about good tennis good stories. I think the times when the two two or the semi finalists, Maria and Jabeur just represent two different aspects of, of women's sports that are really, really important, I think, and I have a kid, I've seen my wife going through being pregnant and recovering from pregnancy. I'm not gonna be be the man to talk about it. But I can tell that it's really difficult. So to go through it after two kids and being a world class athlete is outrageously impressive, and it's it serves as a great role model that, that if you want to you can do it. I mean, three, three, no one ought to be pregnant. And these things are really, really important. I think to show that there's there's a way to find a balance and still become petitive think it's very important With Jabra that she she leaves such a good example what an easy person to to root for and support amazing great great personality but also great tennis. And and I thought it was just great to see that I'm probably going to mispronounce rybakina win by playing such outrageously good tennis. A pumping serves really going at it not being afraid. I was doing finish TV before the semi final we were talking about the Halep Rybakina matchup and thinking they experienced one against the youngster, he gonna be able to stay calm and in fact she was the one who looked like the experienced one and at the end of the day, it just proves that confidence is better than experience anytime of the week.

Daniel Kiernan  40:53

And let's see to bring you in as well that the British girls you know how to add a great event you know, Harriet Dart third round cheese cemented our place really as someone who seems to love the grand slams, you know, qualified for so many now, you know, Raducanu, potentially disappointed some but did win a match. You know, and and also sorry, Harriet was second round, Katey Boulter, third round, you know, so starting to get lots of wins on the board. And obviously Heather Watson as well in the fourth round. So there must be a feelgood factor within British tennis within the girls right now.

Lissey Barnett  41:30

Yeah, I think, in general, like the grass tournaments of the lead up was brilliant. I mean, there were a lot of wins throughout the whole of British tennis men as well. And some of the girls were getting incredible wins. And we've just got a really good group of Brits coming through at that level. And from the level below, like they're pushing up. And each of them are kind of pushing each other. And I think at this point, I feel everyone's really rooting for each other. And it's just brilliant. See, like, I mean, Harriet's an incredibly gritty player like she's very hard working. And you can see that with her results and the way she acts and composes herself on court. And I think just being British, like everyone competes really hard and they love being in front of a crowd and I just feel like that brings the best out of them. But yeah, it's really good to see bolts doing well like I know she's not had an easy time this year. So to see like her coming through and like those rounds of matches is really really good and quite inspiring for other players. So I just wanted to say also like seeing Alfie here doing well as well was really good to see like I hadn't really watched much wheelchair tennis before and I definitely will start watching more because he was brilliant. I mean to come through his semifinal match Wasn't he a certain five to down or something and come through certain for for love. Yeah is amazing. So as of now I think British tennis. It just looks really exciting especially like singles and doubles and wheelchair like from all aspects. It's exciting.

Daniel Kiernan  43:12

Yeah, and these doubles of Gordon Reid. So we actually we are Gordon Reid at the Academy as he got ready for the French Open because one of our academy coaches Bruno coaches him and having him around the Academy for 10 days was brilliant just and he was competing with our juniors you know, they were full on full on playing against each other you know, he was getting getting stuck in so we were all watching their semifinal on court one at the club. And it went six all and then 10 seven golden hit this was unbelievable drop shot is so unlikely the skill level he's got is outrageous. And yet there's unbelievable drop shot to win when everyone went wild. And unfortunately, they didn't get it done in the in the final. But it does feel that wheelchair tennis has been put on the map now. You know, when we saw we saw what happened in Australia as well. You know, that was a there was a big with Dylan Alcott that was a big big moment. You know, he was the headline for the Australian Open. And I think it's fantastic that this this sport is opening up for more and more. And it's another really big positive from the event. One thing I I was adamant on before Wimbledon, and I was mind blown that in the preview that not one of the six panelists picked Novak Djokovic to win the men's event. And I quite cockily like to do sometimes on these of these shows is good make a big statement. If if I'm wrong, nobody really remembers. But if I'm right i Then drill it on that that I'm right Now,

Freddie Nielsen  45:01

Who did you pick? Who did you take?

Daniel Kiernan  45:03

Shapovalov?

Freddie Nielsen  45:05

Oh, oh, I'm sorry. I just had to see if you were one of the six.

Kieron Vorster  45:11

Pretty I was the one pushing you for Kyrgios you'd forgotten he was in the drawer. I said, What about kiss? No. Yeah. Curious. Yeah, that's a good one.

Freddie Nielsen  45:20

Yeah, and but he didn't win

Daniel Kiernan  45:22

Djokovic was given champion I've seen for a long time. He'd won. People didn't realize this, you'd want someone like these last before the event. He'd won his last 32 matches on center court. I mean, if there's ever been a favorite going into an event, I really thought it was Djokovic. Now when I was looking back, Vasa, you're trying to take a little bit of the credit for them. You know, I'm not surprised after picking Shapovalov and Felix, as your as your champion.

Kieron Vorster  45:54

Can I say can I say before before the tournament Djokovic was ropey everyone was saying that he's not in good nick. He pulled out a two two exhibition matches that at Hurlingham. And the feedback that I was getting from other coaches was he wasn't in a good headspace. And he played himself into form. Whether that's correct or not that, you know, he looks unstoppable at the end, that's like,

Freddie Nielsen  46:18

And if I can add to that being the favorite I think I didn't meet anybody during the tournament, that even when he was down two sets to love against sinner, still thought he was going to win. I mean, that's how much people raised him and what you expect of him. Nobody really thought Cena was going to win that match even though we had two sets to love.

Daniel Kiernan  46:37

No, no, no. Almost Not a chance. But But I that the pick of chalk of edge Fred picked Djokovic as the winner and the one to watch Kyrgios so Freddy Nielsen, little round.

Freddie Nielsen  46:54

We can see in the darkness here but I'm giving him the big salute big salute

Kieron Vorster  46:57

20s Undercover that he's on.

Daniel Kiernan  47:01

So guys, as we're as we're talking about the crazy the miraculous whatever you want to call them MC Kiryas. It's also a good time, I think to bring in our special guest who's who's jumping into join us on the panel this evening in Paul Jubb, who played him in the first round at Wimbledon, took him to come to five sets, how to break point five all in the fifth set and push them every step of the way. So a big welcome, Jubby, thanks for joining us.

Paul Jubb  47:32

Know, thanks for having me.

Daniel Kiernan  47:34

And chubby. We're just talking there to the panel. You know, we're talking about Kiryas. Everyone's got their got their mixed feelings about him. Some people love him, some people love him. I don't think anybody can argue that he's an incredible talent. But you were on the other side of the net. And the first thing I want to ask you, I guess is how did you feel when the draw came out? Because everyone waits for the Wimbledon draw in I know, it's your second time playing in the main draw, but as as a wildcard. How was that feeling when you when you picked up the draw and found out who you were playing?

Paul Jubb  48:10

Yeah, it was. I think it was mixed emotions, obviously. Like you said, my second time at Wembley, and I think, you know, obviously really excited to play and I guess drawing a big name, like Nick kind of added to that excitement. For me, I would say and, but also at the same time, I was aware of, you know, how much of a dangerous opponent he was. So, you know, that was also struck me, I would say, as well. So, I guess a bit of everything, but, you know, I was just always mainly excited to kind of get out there and show what I could do. And I guess no one I was playing Nick, it was an even bigger opportunity to you know, do it as I knew I would be playing on a bigger court. So yeah.

Daniel Kiernan  49:01

And talk to us I mentioned there you know, you you took him the distance he He himself said in his press conference that he felt you have the opportunity he could easily have walked away a loser and losing in the first round at Wimbledon and there there he was two weeks later in the final against Novak Djokovic, how was the match from from your from your side and what have your reflections been on that?

Paul Jubb  49:28

Obviously, I think the first thing is just always very, obviously got to come away second best and no one likes being a loser and especially, especially me and you know, I always, you know, want to be the winner. So I was definitely, definitely gutted to just miss out on that one. But I think I came away from the court. You know, proud with the way I handled myself and Uh, kind of the moment and, you know, was able to lock in and compete and kind of, well not minimize his weapons, but deflate as much as I could and then, you know, try and impose my game as as much as I could and try and cause some damage. But I mean facing Nick, he's, I've never really faced, I would say that much pressure in terms of, you know, when someone's serving that well

Daniel Kiernan  50:30

as you serve

Paul Jubb  50:31

it, yeah, it's very, it's a very, very good serve. And definitely the best serve I've ever played against so and I count myself a good returner, and he was going through some service games so quick, and then you're obviously expected to go in and hold. So it's then harder to swing out on your groundstrokes a little bit as every point counts. And I think that was the the main pressure and a different kind of pressure I felt against him then kind of anyone else I've ever played with.

Daniel Kiernan  51:06

And was there a bit bit of a funny question, but I always, always think tennis players have this, you know, to get so close. And I know what a fierce competitor you are. And you know, you've seen that draw, you're not just going in there for the experience you're going there to to get your scalp and what you've done with Rubel have in the past, you know, you've done and you will continue to do. Did you have any regrets? If there was if there was one thing you would change about that match? Is that? Is there a shot? Is there an execution or point that you go God, if only I'd done that, in that moment, that could have been me moving into the next round?

Paul Jubb  51:49

I think I mean, just the I guess there's a lot of I had a lot of breakpoints in the match. But the one will obviously sticks out is just the breakpoint at five or you know, when it's crunch time. And normally, I actually bought myself in the Titan moments and in clutch situations and the fifth set, I started seeing the return, my eyes started becoming a lot sharper, and I was putting a lot more returns in play. And and yeah, I was, I was maybe throughout the match, I was a little bit more surprised, you know, I was able to get a good racket on it and getting the point. But come those moments and how I was feeling, you know, I expected myself to, to make that return, it was in the middle of the strings. And in kind of the way he was in the points, you know, the once the rally started going it was I start I started backing myself from the baseline. So if I make that return, it's it's at that point in in time, it's, I'm for sure backing myself to maybe take that breakpoint and then, you know, hopefully, hopefully serve it out. So I was just obviously getting I just couldn't get into into the point in that situation in that moment.

Daniel Kiernan  53:11

And in terms of I guess, to turn the attention a little bit, because he is a polarizing character. And, you know, I don't think anybody can argue that he's good for the game of tennis in terms of the attention that it brings, you know, some people will argue, equals over the line, some people will, will will argue that tennis needs that tennis needs a bit of a shake up, and it's good to have characters, you have firsthand been on the other side of the net. When that is happening. You know, he's getting into a with the crowd is talking out loud is is is doing what make carriers does. How, how was that? How did you deal with that? And what what's your opinion? Does he go too far? Does he step over the line? You know, where do you fall on that?

Paul Jubb  54:03

For me, I actually, I think because I was you know, just very focused on my side of the net. As I knew that was going to be one of the main things what would give me a good opportunity to win was to not get distracted by all that stuff. I've prepared for that. And I knew I didn't have like, didn't have to get too pumped up and give him a reason to want to win and you know, just trying to stay as mellow as I could and let him do what he wanted to do. But so I kind of blanked a lot of it out. But I think in terms of entertainment, I probably doesn't go over the top because I guess you can't get enough entertainment. So in terms of Yeah, everyone watching you know they have the end of the day is different is shaking things up. But I think in terms of just for him I like in kind of just tournament to tournament for, for him, I would say it's maybe it's too much like, I couldn't imagine myself putting that much energy into all those negative things. You know, for me with anything, if it's something negative and I don't need to put my energy into it, then it's, it's not any good to me and a lot of this stuff we see is him spending all that energy on, I guess unnecessary stuff what doesn't need to blow up so much so I definitely personally think just for him like it is too much at times and it doesn't need to escalate as much as it does. But also, I think that's just the way he's now. Like, is the way he plays like he was yeah, like that's what kind of I don't know, he's just so used to that now and I guess a lot of other players like may struggle to deal with all that stuff and it probably helps him out in a lot of scenarios. So

Daniel Kiernan  56:12

Results, his results would match that wouldn't they? I mean is his results do fluctuate you know, before the before Sunday, Pete Novak doc chuck of edge two times out of two, you know, I think he's got a winning record potentially against or certainly over Tsitsipas you know, I think he's certainly beaten, he's beaten in the towel, you know, he's he's got a big big range of the level that he can play and the results that he has, you know, and I always think consistency starts in the mind if you've got a level a level head a level mind, you've got a much better chance of of bringing a base level to every single day and I think Cameron Norrie is the perfect example of that you know, he's very level headed very level minded very consistent in his day to day inputs. So then the output of that is also pretty consistent you know, whereas Kyrgios' mind is is so fluctuated his his effort levels I would imagine in training, you know, all of those, all of those pieces, Wimbledon, Wimbledon, final one week, first round, somewhere in two, three weeks time, and I guess that's what makes the sport so exciting that we've, we've got all these different people, for you personally Jubby, you know, I think once again, shows where your levels at, you know, I think it's only a matter of time before you're, you're regularly playing in these big events. And my last thing is, you know, what, what confidence do you take from that, you know, knowing, knowing that you on on a grasscourt, you know, playing against arguably one of the top five players in the world on a grasscourt someone who's a Wimbledon finalist, you've taken them to almost a point or to a victory. What does that mean for you now as you move into the rest of the year?

Paul Jubb  58:02

Yeah, I think for sure, just that confidence and belief in in, you know, no, yeah, my level is definitely there. My tennis is, is I know, I can compete with the guys that are tough. And not just from that match, like to build autonomy for that, like, playing top 100 guys for the three weeks in a row and, you know, winning rounds, and, and the ones I lost were very, very tight. You know, a lot of breakpoint opportunities in those matches could have swung the other way. And one of them matches, I won more points in the match and, and lost, you know, so I definitely, I think from these last few weeks, it's just more of a more of a reassurance that my levels that I'm doing, doing the right things and it's just continue doing want to do and keep pushing, because, you know, sooner sooner or later. Like you say, I will be you know, playing all these bigger tournaments on a more regular basis. And, and, you know, that's where I want to be, that's where I'm going to be and it's, it's a process thing, I'm kind of, in the building phase of, of my journey, everyone's got to go through it and but I think just keeping that reassurance of it's there and, and keeping that belief is big, because you know, it's an individual sport and the when you're out there the main person who's got to believe is yourself. So I think for sure that's, you know, these past few weeks are going to help me carry that in the second half of the year.

Daniel Kiernan  59:48

Jubby awesome, great answer. I take so much from when I listened to all of you tennis players. When you when you give these answers, I think it it shows where your mindset are at, you know, and your mindset is, is right there. It's in the right place on behalf of Control the Controllables. And, and everyone that follows follows the podcast and all they wish you the best of luck for the rest of the year. I do appreciate you jumping on here. I'm going to. I'm going to bring the rest of the panel back in now. But thank you for jumping in joining us this evening. No problem. No problem.  The bromance, Neil. The bromance of Djokovic and Kyrgios that seems to have blossomed seems to have blossomed throughout social media. Is it real? Do they do they really like each other now?

Neal Skupski  1:00:40

I'm gonna say they do. I mean, I think it's starting to blossom a little bit. It obviously started the night before I think it was on on Instagram about going to a nightclub and having dinner if someone wins, I'm paying. And then obviously it came up in the in the speech. And it seemed like it was back and forth. And I was surprised when Novak actually brought it out. So maybe he started to come around a little bit. But I mean, I do know it was quite beforehand. They did used to hate each other with a passion. I mean, I think obviously, Nick has always liked. He's always like, Roger, I think he was I think recently he started to say more nice things about Nadal being like the golden stuff. And He's an unbelievable player. But it seems like Nick's starting to come around to Novak as well. So it's, it's, it's Well, for me, it's nice to see to have given the top guys a bit more respect. But I mean, I still enjoy. The stuff that Nick brings to the court is completely different to everybody else. It was refreshing to see him bring a nice style of tennis to Centre Court, even though he wasn't wearing the the whites of the All England Club

Daniel Kiernan  1:01:58

Two, there's two points I want to make. And then I want to throw it to you.

Freddie Nielsen  1:02:00

Can I say one thing? I just want to say I think one thing about Nick is that he's not. I don't find them to be particularly personal against people. If they do something he dislikes. He goes all in. But then if he feels like to jump to their defense, like with Novak in January, He's not shy to do it. I feel like he's quite. He's very opinionated. And he goes all out on his opinion, but I don't think he just sticks to being personal against somebody just to be personal. So so he'll come around if you feel there's a reason to come around. And I quite liked that about him. And it doesn't. It's not all black and white, it seems to me anyway.

Daniel Kiernan  1:02:36

Well, I think it's gonna work in Djokovic's favour, you know, if we go back to 2012, there was a lot of people didn't like Andy Murray, especially in the UK, actually, you know, a lot of people like to call him a Scot and he hates` the English and he's grumpy and he's this and he's not. And then he lost a Roger Federer. He cried his eyes out on on national or world, world television. And we almost ECN have softened the soften to us all and since people started to maybe see a bit of vulnerability there. And and from there, I don't think there's a person now in the world that doesn't love Andy Murray. You know, he's completely transformed that now. I know that the jock of itch, hatred is a little bit deeper. It was Mark pesci tweeted and said that the crowd will be for jurkovich For the first time here. And I read that tweet and I thought patch you've got that wrong. You know, the the centre court crowd, they're going to be behind carry us and carry us won the first part of the match. And it was very clear they were behind carry us. But I do just wonder if I found myself really suffering to know that chocolate which one during the match because I think he handled it very well. And to in the award ceremony and in the speeches afterwards. I think he there was something a bit more genuine in human about him, the way that that relationship and the things that he talked about when they carry us so I do just wonder if maybe that relationship with Kyrgios is going to almost help us start to connect to him a little bit more. So that's my that's my first point. And then I want to throw this

Freddie Nielsen  1:04:19

He also had the cane like kinda like Andy at the moment on court where he cried and US Open and it seemed like that kind of turned a lot of crowds for him against Medvedev in the final.

Daniel Kiernan  1:04:31

Yeah, very possibly. Very possibly, but the bit I want to want your thoughts on here, Freddie and and boys jumped in. And Pat Cash talked about it and he said, he's brought tennis to the lowest level. I can see as far as gamesmanship, cheating, manipulation, abuse, aggressive behavior, to players and to linesman is absolutely adamant that Nick Kyrgios is not good for the sport is not good foster In tennis, and he hasn't been shy to put it out there is a bit like Marmite, or shall we say veggie mite? We're talking about and Aussie. What do you think? Does he step over the line? Is it too much?

Freddie Nielsen  1:05:14

I think sometimes he does. Yeah. I don't like when he's that aggressive with line judges and umpires. I think that's the, that's the one time where like, and it happens. I've done it several times. He's, he's done it. Because he's so good all his life in the limelight. I did it at the Kuma Tennis Center in Sunderland in front of nobody. So it didn't really make big news. But, but But I do think he steps on line as to many people. I also think that he gets punished a little bit harsher than a lot of other guys because of who he is. And it's a little bit easier. But ultimately, I don't think he's a cheater, or like, I think there are other people that are worse than that. I think he's very, you know, he's, he's, he's an open box, he kind of shows you what's going on inside his head. And it's just pandemonium, but I don't think he's particularly trying to be mean or get an advantage. I just think it's his inner battles that come out, and then it needs an outlet. I don't like what I see when he goes, like he said, when he's particularly aggressive about the umpires and lineup. I think he could also be a little more apologetic afterwards and say, Yeah, I kind of stepped over the line. And we talked about this after the Australian Open, where we're talking about how he has to be careful not to become a court jester and make sure that it's all about the tennis I think he found a better balance now. And I ultimately think that he is great for the game. I think what he says it himself, a lot of people watch his matches. I'm one of them. I mean, if there's a lot of matches on court, he be one of the first ones I want to watch. Mainly because of his tennis skills. I know there's a lot of drama that's gonna happen when he plays and there's gonna be some, some some sound bites and clips for the social media, but I like his tennis game. I like he I think he has an underrated brain. I think he compete with everybody. And I think he's got some personality that I want to see. So ultimately, borderline still, but I think he's good for the game. I don't like the aggressiveness towards individuals. I think he has to be careful that he doesn't overstep and becomes a court jester. But generally speaking, I think he's good for the game.

Daniel Kiernan  1:07:21

Vozzie, what would you do? If a player that you're working with spoke to you like, he spoke to his team, when you sat on the box?

Kieron Vorster  1:07:31

I mean, out of our walked off, and I would have probably hit him in, in the locker room. And guys, I mean, that's just just been a break. You know, I've got no respect for that, in any way, shape, or form. No one deserves to be spoken to like that. And especially in the public domain, where all you're doing is giving your wholehearted support to an individual on the court. And yeah, I'm, you know, like, even against that message against this definitely specific, you know, if I, if I was definitely out of this, you would have got lumped in, in the, in the locker room, and that is probably what needs to happen for him to calm down. And actually, for him just to focus on tennis, and something, you know, that wasn't a battle for him to take on. That was he made that his battle. And it wasn't, it was had nothing to do with him. And the way, you know, the way he was carrying on to his box in the finals, just, to me, it's just just ludicrous. And I'm surprised that they all stood there and took it, every single one of them. And the best methods they could have done, you know, if it was directed at one or director more, up to six and leave. Yes, that's where you want to crack on crack on. Don't, you know, shout at an empty box.

Daniel Kiernan  1:08:46

Well, we saw Medvedev, didn't we Neal, we saw Yeah, Medvedev scorched did it a couple of weeks earlier. In the final. You know, there's that picture of him just picking up his bag. And and doing one. Do you think more teams more coaches should do that are coming from the player's perspective. Do you think it's part of the team's job to understand that what has been said is not meant? And it's part of the coping mechanism with the stress that they're dealing with? Because we've seen Andy Murray do it for years. I wouldn't say he's done it to the same level. Kyrgios was doing it in the final. But we have seen Andy Murray do it for years. And there is lots of players. Even Djokovic that a couple of points in the final was putting his stress that way. What's What's your take on it, Neil? Yeah, I

Neal Skupski  1:09:36

mean, it's difficult. I mean, I was actually right by the box for the final behind Kyrgios box and it was you could tell the Djokovic box we're getting quite annoyed by the Kyrgios box. But I mean, nearly at every point, a curious one. They are on the feet. So I mean, I was trying to I was trying to figure out why Nick was actually going crazy at his box. And it was, it was mainly because they weren't saying enough if there won't be a mobile enough that what you're sharing with them. But I mean, I think I think it's tough. I mean, on both sides, I mean, if your employee is basically shouting at you, who's paying your bills, you're you could be possibly scared to leave. In case after the matches, and you've left, you've left the box, you're fired. So that's one reason why some people may stay. But I mean, I don't think it's good for the sport. I mean, but they've just brought in coaching revenue from today. Well, this week in Newport, like coaches allowed to speak to players from one end, and then do signals from the other end. Which, for me, I don't agree with, I think when you go on the court, you're an individual, and you are at a tough the battle is to try and figure out for yourself. But that's going down to another whole old route of things.

Kieron Vorster  1:10:59

In, in a real world Dan, if, if your boss spoke to you like that, your boss would get fired, you would have he you'd have an HR team going at it, like defending the employees, you don't speak to people like that. It's a nonsense and, and even more in the public eye. You know, but it's just the fact that, you know, you're obviously not working for a company, you work for an individual. So in a normal in a normal role, you know, I've got, I've got eight, seven employees that work for me, if I suppose I'm like that, I'm hung up, hung and dry. Um,

Neal Skupski  1:11:32

I mean, I, I mean, I totally agree with you. I mean, I'm not saying that guys should take it. I mean, if if they were, if I was the one getting shouted at by one of if I was a coach, and the player has shown me that we'll be out the box, there's no chance I'm playing and then taking the abuse. Because it's just, it's, it's not right, it's not, it's not nice to be shouted at, in the public on TV with millions watching around the world. For me, I'll be able to then wait for them to come into the locker room to have a good step. And so I'll continue.

Freddie Nielsen  1:12:04

At the same time. There's also a level of expectancy here because if you're in the box of the curious and you're surprised three years, then the joke's on you. Because that cannot surprise you. Secondly, we don't know what these teams have for cream. And you know, maybe some people have various ways of getting out. And maybe there maybe he said, guys, when I lose it out there, I just need to unleash who knows. I'm not saying it's the right way to do it. But maybe this team has agreed, okay, whenever he's stressed, this is the best tool he has to deal with. It's just a take it out in the box, and then we're just gonna let him do that. And then after that, we can talk about it or whatever. But but we also don't know what goes on between within these teams. And maybe, maybe it's, you know, maybe he's better off than holding it in for now. Who knows? I wouldn't want to be in a team like that either. I would say if that's the way it's supposed to be eat, and you have to find somebody else. But maybe within that team, they're happy, you know, that that's what they have to deal with right now. And, and also, Wimbledon final, and maybe they don't want to make that big of a scene that bit make the scene bigger than it already is.

Daniel Kiernan  1:13:16

But if you look at if you look at the team, I think this is maybe quite interesting. One was his dad. One was his daughter, if it was his mom or his sister, sister, one was his girlfriend. One was his best mate. So again, an agent so so so we're not, I think the classic he said he said, he got asked about having a coach after the after the quarterfinal. And he said, No, I wouldn't burden anybody with that. So, you know, that was his that was his comment, you know, so I think he knows that. No coach would put up with that, or should put up with that. But I guess you can't choose your family in some way. No. And I

Freddie Nielsen  1:14:03

I think and I think they know him. Well. They know that he is just expressing his own frustration with himself. Because nobody, everybody knows that he's not genuinely upset that they're not talking more. He's upset with himself. He's stressed at the situation and it needs an outlet. And it's much easier. If everybody has been there. Everybody in this room. I think everybody in the world of tennis has been there where it's easier to project the disappointment with yourself onto something else. doesn't make it right doesn't justify the way he did it. But I think maybe that's what they were thinking they obviously understand, okay, this is his way of telling the world that he stressed out and maybe that's why they were able to understand it again, doesn't condone it doesn't make it right. I agree with Vossie. I wouldn't have it anything like that in any team I would be in. But everybody's different.

Daniel Kiernan  1:14:53

It's an unhealthy coping mechanism, isn't it? We all have coping mechanisms when we're stressed. And it's a lot

Freddie Nielsen  1:15:00

term anyway, it's short term, but long term, I think it's very difficult to work on it.

Daniel Kiernan  1:15:05

Yeah. And it's something that is quite set. But then we've got the opposite end of the scale in Rafael Nadal, who I just love the video of when he leaves Wimbledon. And he's shaking everybody's hands and giving hugs and, you know, like you can, you can feel it's true. He truly has those values at heart. And I know you said again last week, I want to be known as a good person more than a good tennis player. And Nadal

Kieron Vorster  1:15:33

What was what's what's your opinion on telling the guy or the Italian man? He's banking on the court?

Daniel Kiernan  1:15:40

I think that was wrong. I think,

Kieron Vorster  1:15:42

I think absolutely.

Daniel Kiernan  1:15:44

I think, I think Nadal, I think McDowell but he recognized it was wrong, I would imagine as, as one of those, one of those players who has carried the sport for years with her for sorry, 15, 20 years. Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, which you probably have, at some point, some form of entitlement that you try not to come out. But I think it was almost like he was you look at some of the other players as if you are the head teacher, probably. And it just it came across in the wrong way. It came across that he wasn't on a level with his opponent. And it was almost like me as a coach, speaking to a 16 year old and saying, Hey, this is my tennis academy. That's, that's out of order at my tennis academy. You know, it was almost like he lost where he was. And you know, and I think that was a bit of a mistake he made, you know, but he did hold his hands up pretty much straight after, I think he felt guilty about it even in the handshake. You know, when he was, you know, saying to the guy, look, I'm sorry that sorry that I did that. But my question that I want to throw to you is, firstly, from a physical side, to win a match with a torn stomach muscle. That was obviously bad enough to not continue at a semi finals of a Grand Slam seems to be a pretty heroic effort that not many players out there would do. And my next question is, if he was fit, would he have gone on to win number 23? In your opinion?

Freddie Nielsen  1:17:24

Thank you, Phil still wouldn't have won. I think Novak would have won. And secondly, yeah, pretty heroic effort to win with the with a torn stomach muscle or or strained stomach muscle, but I think Taylor Fritz was lucky that he did it against Rafa Nadal because I think I like to illustrate there's nothing against him personally. But if it had been against anybody else, we'd be talking about how he missed the opportunity to make Wimbledon semifinals.

Kieron Vorster  1:17:52

Yeah. Yeah, I think I think in hindsight, I bet there was only going to be one winner of that event, which was Novak. Obviously, you know, I think Taylor Fritrz, choked is the wrong word, but got tight. And obviously, when when Rafa had pulled a stomach muscle, you've got adrenaline, you know, you're in the moment, you can find a way to get through that match, but you might have different pain. And they I also know, one of one of our members was his house was opposite Rafa's house. And he said the whole the whole of Thursday, they were just white coats going in and out the house the whole day. Just different medics massage tables and tables out. You know, obviously, they were trying everything in their power to get him right to play. I just think they they realized later in the day that it wasn't impossible for him, you know, you must have been in so much pain that, you know, because I was saying it was obviously hurting on the server and on the backhand on that rotation. So, you know, they they pulled the plug. And I also think look as much as we talked about Kyrgios, I think, you know, and I'm just curious, as long as that his interview with ABC, I think that worked against him. Not playing from the Wednesday to the Sunday. Just just in terms of rhythm and routine. And, you know, he said you try to you try to have like a, you know, a lengthy practice on on the Friday, but it's not the same as match condition. You know, you've lost, you lose that momentum. You know, going into the final third thing, I think that worked against them. Everyone will say, Well, you know, he's not in good shape, but you know, you you get a rhythm. He had a rhythm. And I think I think that upset his rhythm. He didn't blame. He didn't blame that that, you know, he was like, you know, he was so he was so up for playing and playing Nadal and all of a sudden it's not and, you know, then you've got to think of a way of match conditions where you know where, you know, Do you hit the ball for 40 minutes and then you know you're gonna play you know at least three hours of tennis on that Friday in very intense competitive situation and then all sudden he's not doing that. So I think those those kind of things I think circumstances worked against them in that situation yeah but I you know, there was I think there's at the end end of the day there's only going to be one winner and I think Novak played himself into contention. And, you know, even you know, like, like what Brett said like when you know, when you're super flub down, and they need to stand back and chop, you look unbelievable, you know, in that match, and then against against Norrie. Again, he was he was clinical, I thought, I thought you're very clinical. And then yeah, you say same in the in the final,

Daniel Kiernan  1:20:50

and a big shout out to Cameron Norrie as well. I mean, I

Freddie Nielsen  1:20:54

Can't believe I didn't mention that at the beginning when you mentioned my highlights that for me, I felt I've been thinking about the last 30 minutes I feel bad about it.

Daniel Kiernan  1:21:01

And, and not to continue the gloating, but I do believe he was my he was my watch out pick. You know, but it's he just I know we got our superstars. We got these superstars. That's what they are. They're generational. The Alcaraz is coming now as well. You know, these players, they're there. They're on this pedestal, you know, you can't touch them. You could touch Cameron Norrie, you know, Cameron Norrie in his journey, his story and when I remember Josh Ward Hibbott playing him at Roehampton juniors, would have been cams first shared juniors. And he was okay. But he didn't have a very good fine return. Josh Ward Hibbott? In our bless Josh. Josh was a big guy, big game. And all he did was just serve it to the forehand job done. And, you know, this was 17 years old, you know, so an income has gone on and his story is just is immense. And he is so normal and everything that he does, you know, and it's such a it's such a lovely guy. And he just keeps plugging away with these amazing results. And he's, I mean, we've talked about the points I guess that would have taken him well inside the top 10 You know, semi finals, semi finals of Wimbledon. And Neal, you've been on Davis Cup squads with Cam give us a little insight into Cameron Norrie.

Neal Skupski  1:22:33

Yeah, he's he's had an unbelievable, probably, year to 18 months may come out of nowhere, but you always knew that he was an unbelievable in unbelievable engineering. Very good mentally, nothing really bothers him. And he's just gone from strength to strength over the last year or so. Obviously, we've been in the Wells was a huge thing for him. And then I think before that, making the final of Queensland before against losing to berrettini we've always seen that he's decent on grass, and then to put it together this year, and making the semi finals was incredible. I think a funny story is that he actually he was riding on a bike to Wimbledon every day, which was quite remarkable rather than using transport. And then it was it was nice actually, after I'd played and finished it was actually nice to watch a bit of tennis and I was able to watch the Norrie Djokovic match on Center court and it was nice to see I mean the crowd really got behind Norrie the first set and then you could just tell Novak trying to turn the screw. And I was lucky enough to be sat next to Rod Laver at the time. He was actually sort of speak Yeah, which is quite remarkable. He started talking to me about saying like Norrie is not going to win this match, and you're still not gonna win this match even though we were set up saying Djokovic, his words were Djokovic is too much of a backboard, the too similar and Norrie has to come the net and change things up. And then Norway started to come come to the net and it was just missed a couple of easy volleys. I think the backhand volley cross court in the second set to maybe hold and then it actually missed it to actually get broke and then Rod Laver's like, I could teach him that volley. Rod Laver say that. I mean, it was, I mean, mommy's doing unbelievable. He's going from strength strength. I mean, if you just said to me after him come out of college up top 10. I'm going in Indian Wells. I wouldn't have believed you, but he's, he's proven everyone wrong. And you can't really say he's, he's not going to get higher. He just seems to be improving. And he's got a great coach band, in fact, you and he seems to when he gets to 20 nickels down and he actually goes forever.

Daniel Kiernan  1:24:55

What would you know what I mean about Vossie, what I'm saying about he's touchable like, if you're If I'm I think it's at academies or as a coach of youngsters. Sometimes I think that role model of the Nadal, Djokovic Swiatek, you know, Serena Williams, they're there to far too they're too much out there. Whereas, whereas at the Cameron nori story, because you often talk about a Cameron Norrie, the journey he's had that sort of play that gets to 50, 60 in the world was an amazing career. But he's kind of not just taking that one step. He's taking up another step. And now he's got gone to a semi finals of a Grand Slam, I just think he is so good. And such an amazing role model for people to look up to.

Kieron Vorster  1:25:47

Yeah, I mean, I think he when you say touchable Yeah, he's relatable. He is, you know, he's kept the team small. He's kept his team the same is work rates is, is consistent. And yeah, he's like, the man of the people. He's got time for everyone. He speaks to everyone. He's very good with the British British juniors. He's got a lot of time for the British juniors, you talk with all the coaches, you know, he, you know, he goes up there, you know, your your, you know, have been hit with them, you'll give them advice. So, yeah, I think he, and then what he's doing personally, is he's knocking down his own personal master. So, exactly what Neal just said, there, you know, like, you know, he's, he you want to do well, that's a milestone, you know, who would have thought he would have done that? Now. Now, he's made a semis of a slam. That's another milestone. And, you know, he's saying, I'm not happy with just with that, I can do more, I can achieve more, I can go for more and good. Yeah, good luck to them. You know, for me, it's for me at that, at that level. You know, when you when you see all these players, it's, it's all mental. And if you've got that self belief mechanism, and you believe in your, your, your ability, and you believe, like 80 85%, you know, believe in doing your best, and at 85% of the time, you're going to win, then you're going to be you're going to be pretty good, you're going to be consistent with the results. And you know, the 50 other 50%, you lose. And I think he's there, you know, I think he's there. And I think he's even further, I think he believes he can win 90% of the time that he played it. Placement.

Daniel Kiernan  1:27:26

It's so good for this is my the last player we'll talk about and roll, I just want to mention mentioned the men's doubles, which I think deserves deserves a real mention is somebody like a Jack Draper, who I believe will be a future Top 20 player in the world. And that was also one of my highlights, actually on Friday, I don't know if you've got to watch it. But the tennis between him and Alex De Minaur for two sets, and certainly at the end of the second set, were demon who I thought was sensational. But Draper, once again, showed us and he then didn't go away. You know, he did for a while it felt like he made a big comeback in the end of the fourth set as well. You know, he really, really is, I think a one for us to for us to watch and for, for British tennis to be extremely excited about.

Freddie Nielsen  1:28:21

Oh, absolutely. I have a lot of time for him. He seems like he has a great head on his shoulders. He plays great tennis. He's obviously gone through and made top 100 which says a lot about you in itself. And I think there's a lot to be positive about and British tennis in general. He's a great guy. I don't know him personally, but he seemed like a great guy. And he's easy to get behind and easy to support. He's got a big game, he took a set off Djokovic last year. It's an accord. Yeah, what's not to like about him?

Kieron Vorster  1:28:50

I agree with you. I think I think what what Jack needs to to become better at it be more efficient, efficient with energy on the court. He's, he's giving so much that I think he just runs out of gas. And that's not not because he's unfit in any way shape or form. I just think he's, he's not being efficient with with the energy and you'll get better at that with experience. Know how to be more conservative with it. For sure, it's got a big game and you know, he he's got a good team. He's got a good team around him. And again, you know, he's consistent with his work. He's got a good plan. They're doing good three weeks off now, before they go to the stage. You pulled out of Newport for that reason, so they could focus on a blog a little bit of a mini training blaster. Yeah, I mean, you've got to run the prize. So good luck.

Daniel Kiernan  1:29:42

And Neal we spoke about your mixed doubles that Wimbledon men's doubles. You know, the one of the form teams of the year any of you in Wesley have had an incredible 2022 What's your reflection on your your men's doubles event?

Neal Skupski  1:30:00

Yeah, I mean we obviously disappointed to to finish in the third round losing to Purcell and Ebden who went on to win it. We we felt like we didn't play our, our best tennis in the first couple of sets against them guys, but they played well to not make us play the way we wanted. We managed to get back into it and fight to a fifth set. But then they they played pretty well at the end. I mean, we we did have a chance to four all i think it was love 40 per cell service per cell came up with some big surf on returnables. I mean they then boys they played some marathon matches the bet against in the first round, they saved three match points in the fifth from love 40 down and then obviously against Salisbury and Ram I think it was five match points

Daniel Kiernan  1:30:52

five match points. Heartbreaker.

Neal Skupski  1:30:55

Yeah. And then see and Ram and Salisbury in the locker room. I mean, I didn't know what to say to them guys. It was so so difficult of a loss for them. So yeah, I mean, it was it was a tough to figure out for us in the third round. But I thought the standard of men's doubles was quite exceptional this year. And then the I mean, the storyline of the final of Pavic playing with a broken hand, which was quite remarkable. Him He did it in the semi final I think it was in the first set tiebreaker. The second set tiebreaker against Cabal Farah winning seven, six and the fifth. And then they will obviously it was the hand that he doesn't play with it was right hands a lefty. So going into court, and then having the opportunity to even win that match breakup. And the fifth was quite remarkable. So hats off to him. But credit to the LZ lads for pulling the back and taking the title.

Daniel Kiernan  1:31:52

Friday, how would you fancy that playing a Wimbledon semifinal I take you around the back and away from you?

Freddie Nielsen  1:31:58

Well, I kind of I kind of did in the final. I couldn't play properly for last three sets, but nothing like this. I mean, he couldn't even hold his his right hand on the racket to load for volleys or anything. So it's just the only thing you could do with throw up the ball. I mean, how big a talent I did, you can play nine competitive sets like that. And I mean, for all intents and purposes, they basically should have won that Final Four, Three up, and the fifth set where the break got broken, and then at 1540 to get five for the fifth. And it looked like we didn't hit a very clean personal on that on that break point. So I mean, they had that match, and they had it with him playing one hand. I mean, what a talent. I couldn't believe it. And it just shows how waterplay Yes. But yeah, the ICS they were unbelievable. That's the one of those match points against the genre G was 100% on the frame volley winner, but at the end of the day, it happened because he made a courageous placement at the net. And he got he got rewarded for for for an aggressive way of playing the game and they won on their their rackets. I mean, the super targeting at the end was really high level and basically only winners.

Daniel Kiernan  1:33:16

It fields remember when and this is when we got Liverpool fans and Spurs fans, you guys might not thank me for this. But when Chelsea won the Champions League all of those years ago, and it just was like this destiny. They were getting killed by everyone. And then they somehow kind of found a way to come back and win in the final. I don't know did they play in the finals Bayern Munich Bayern Munich and yeah, they put it just out this kind of Destiny feel to it that Chelsea were gonna win it that year. And I watched a lot of the men's doubles and I had that feeling it was Purcell. He's like he's such an Ozzy looking bloke, isn't he and he's got like any any he had this big smile on his face. He was two sets of down against Robin Salisbury. And he was just smiling away as if if he knew something that we that we didn't. And it just seemed to have have that feeling and he seemed to play without any tightness. He seemed to be just swinging, swinging from the hip. Sometimes it happens. And fair play to those guys. One little shout out. I'd like to give a name that you guys might know you might not know. But look out for Lutz, who divided and Lutz advisory trend actually at the Soto Tennis Academy from the age of 12 to 15. Made she was in Kenya only 12 months ago playing grade five events in the juniors and she made her way all the way to the final of the girls singles. So that was a that was an incredible, incredible achievement and in the final. And I don't know if you guys know the British guy Matt handling but Matt, Matt Hamilton moved out of the states many years ago. And he also used to coach the winner half dare from from the states who won the who won the girls singles as well. So, a shout out to Matt, it's good to see all of these juniors coming through the United States seem to be having lots of juniors, you know, it seems to be happening more and more. So it seems like they're getting their act together, as well as the Czech Republic when you go through that and look at it, but an amazing event guys, our final word has to go to our back to back. Wimbledon champion Neal Skupski.

Kieron Vorster  1:35:39

Now hold on, Daniel. Great job, mate. Thanks, guys. Yeah,

Neal Skupski  1:35:44

I can't finish the pod. But I'd say and about Ken retiring at Wimbledon. Amazing career. I mean, I owe a lot to him for coming down to my level. After finishing college. He was top 100 of the time. He dropped when I was about 700 to play futures to play challenges going to top 100 within a year. And then we we lived our dream. Travel the travel the world playing tennis, amazing thing for our family. But yeah, it was it was nice to see him win a couple matches at Wimbledon. Wimbledon had a great win against Melo and clashed and then the second round with Johnny O'Mara. Still playing some good tennis. So I'm trying to get him to play for the other year, but you think he's he's ready to be done. And yeah, he's looking forward to moving on it in his post tennis career, and he's going to probably get the new skupski doubles Academy, and he's going to travel a little bit with me on tour. So looking forward to that. Then after listen to him now. And yeah, can't thank you enough.

Daniel Kiernan  1:36:49

I raised a

Freddie Nielsen  1:36:51

great point. Yeah, I think Yeah,

Kieron Vorster  1:36:53

Clearly a great good job

Daniel Kiernan  1:36:56

raised, I raised my class to my college, my college roommate, and as and as I text him, you know, after after they lost in the third round, you know, when I take take us back to Tiger land for for for, you know, Never did I think 21 years later that that one of us would still be competing on the world stage and you know, absolutely tip my hat to the Korea he's had, you know, the impact he's had on you and, and I'm sure the impact he's going to continue to have on you meal and the rest of anybody that he comes across so so a big big tip of the hat and cheers to you can and a big big thank you to all of you guys Xavi leases just text me to say a big hello to the crew. And sorry he's not being able to jump on. So hopefully we'll get Xavi on with us next time. It's nice to have the air team is bad guy. Sorry. You weren't dropped. You weren't put on the bench. Don't take offense by it. It was just us trying to spread the word of US college and the British tennis first timers playing at Wimbledon who I thought brought a lovely insight. But thank you as always guys for giving your time. Congrats to all of you for your great work throughout the last couple of weeks. And Neil obviously for taking home another Wimbledon title and all the best view the next few weeks guys thank you how much fun was that? Massive Thank you. To them all who came on and spoke to us and gave us those amazing stories that the Neal skupski rodelle ever story that backhand volley. You know what an incredible story and so many that I that I took from that and I hope you guys did as well. I hope it's put a big smile on your face. It's a one we can really listen to and relive the glory of Wimbledon 2022 That was an absolute delight for us all. We will look forward to the US Open in a few weeks and see what the state of Tennessee says see what the storylines are. Will we have another? Emma Raducanu moment? Will the world number seven Novak Djokovic get to number 22 Will he be allowed in the country? Will Rafael Nadal find his way to number 23 There is so many storylines for us to look forward to. I for one can't wait already. I love tennis. I love the tennis world. It's a great pleasure to bring you this podcast. So thank you all for listening. I do have one quick request if you are enjoying the podcast, just a quick two minutes on your podcast platform to give us a like give us a review. Give us a rating. Get these podcasts out far and wide to all of those people around the world who would benefit from listening to them. We will be back next week. As always, we have an amazing guest coming your way. And lots more to come over the next few weeks but until next time, I'm Dan Kiernan the we are Control the Controllables