Robbie Koenig - A Way With Words

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Daniel Kiernan  00:09

Welcome to Episode 181 of Control the Controllables. And a big Merry Christmas to you all. Hope you've had a fantastic few days with your family. I hope you've eaten way too much Turkey and way too many chocolates and starting to get ready as we get close to moving into 2023. Now today we have a former top 30 in the world doubles player, a tennis parent, a tennis coach. And now one of the most famous tennis commentators there is out there and some of you would have heard many of those amazing comments and wondered, I wonder who that is? Well, that is Robbie Koenig. You don't listen out for him. You know, I love watching matches. When Robbie is commentating, he brings it to life. He does it in a fun manner. And he also brings incredible insight into the tennis. And this conversation actually happened. It happened a few weeks ago. And as life goes, you know, I ended up being asked to go to the ATP Tour Finals. We ended up going to Davis Cup for a few days. And then we had a chance to speak to Harri and Lloyd who was our last episode so they jumped in front of Robbie. But it's a one worth waiting for. Because a bit like Mark Petchey if you listen to Mark Petchey, Mark Petchey comes with so many layers of the sport, you know, and as I said there at the beginning, as a, as a tennis coach, as a former player, as a tennis tennis parent, and as a commentator, you tend to have lots of different lenses. And that really makes for a fascinating chat. And this certainly was you know, Robbie has a passion that unrivaled. His son, Luke is 19 years old, is starting out on his tennis journey. So we get into that, as well as many other subjects that I'm sure you're all going to love. But without further ado, I'm gonna pass you over to Robbie Koenig. So Robbie Koenig a big welcome to Control the Controllables How you doing?

Robbie Koenig  02:31

DK, I've been a big follower of your show for a long time and the podcast in particular, so many good guests. And it's super cool to be on it, man I feel honoured.

Daniel Kiernan  02:42

Well, you've been on the list for a long time, and and actually, you've even been talked about as someone that should flip the flip of the mic and you, you interview me, a couple of people have mentioned that. And when we asked people they say who should do that, and your name came up. So I know, our listeners are very excited. And, and I am as well, Robbie. So thanks for coming on. And I think the starting point for me is the changing of the guard 2022 I think it's going to go down as a year, you know, in the history of tennis and so many things have happened it feels over the last few weeks. And you know, we've got Alcaraz taking place a Federer, we've got Iga taking place of Serena. So how's 2022 been for you give us give us your take on the landscape of tennis throughout this year?

Robbie Koenig  03:38

Well, it's been fascinating, first of all, to see the emergence of the young guys, the amount of talent that is out there, we always worry about who's going to take over the mantle from the Big Four when you throw Andy Murray in the mix as well, especially the big three. But I like what I'm seeing first of all, I think first and foremost. That's number one for me. Going back to the start of the year, I didn't enjoy everything that shook out with Novak I thought he should have been allowed to play I thought he had most of his ducks in the row. And I guess similarly for the US Open I wish she'd been able to play there. I couldn't imagine anything better than Alcaraz taking on Novak foot for all of marbles. You know two guys who are just the most exquisite of movers. Now they're kind of hardcore, you know what our careers is doing on hard courts I would have loved to have seen that unfold. So I've been somewhat disappointed. I just want to see the best players being able to compete that's what I want DK I think that's what fans look for. Is those those big heavyweight matchups and obviously now with Alcaraz getting to number one in the world post USL you know, just the variety that he's shown it's such a young age. I think that's what struck us all. Although certainly In the in the media and commentating industry we speak about a lot behind the scenes and, you know, we marvel at it's such a young age, he's got so many tools at his disposal. But I think for for me in particular, it's the mental toughness that this guy has. You know, so often I use his stats in deciding set tie breaks, think he's 11 and one in his career. Career, he's only lost one, I think he lost the Australian Open to Berrettini this year that the only time he started deciding sector break. clutches his crunch factor is right up them and fearless tennis and the ability to produce as I think is exciting all of us. So, you know, there's a lot to look forward to. I mean, Jannik Sinner for me is going to be a guy who challenges him on a regular basis, but Novak is going to be there. I'd like to see Danny Medvedev start to get some of his form back. I think it's been a tough time for the Russian guys. Again, it was pretty hard what? What went down here for them in the UK, not being able to play wouldn't be a tough decision, man. I think in the locker room, I think fair few people thought they might be hard done by, but it is what it is. And I just hope that next year is a lot more seamless. And we're back to 100% I hope everybody is allowed to play everywhere.

Daniel Kiernan  06:18

Yeah, it's fair that the politics, we'll remember this for the air of politics as well when we in the sport and you know, there's there's been, but there has been storylines left, right and center. But I do I do think and we do a preview and a review show of of the every Grand Slam. And we were talking before Wimbledon, obviously, as everyone else was about about what was going on. We were talking in Australia about Novak we would but once the tennis started in every grand slam this year, you almost forgot you almost forgot I think that says a lot about the tennis and and these youngsters that are coming through and that it clearly goes to Alcaraz is the big talking point on the men's side. I think Iga is almost going under the radar that if that can happen. on the women's side. You know she's she's won three grand slams, and she's just won so many matches this year, that she's kind of established herself. Let's not forget Ash Barty also stopped playing this year, you know, on how that's happened. You know, that seems like almost a lifetime away. But I when you were talking there, because I know as commentators and I know you Robbie, you do your research and you know the game and you know the game at all the levels. When did you first see, Carlos? Is that? Has he been on your radar for a while? Is he someone that you know you saw you saw coming from a young age or is he just kind of appeared.

Robbie Koenig  07:59

My son, he's my son is 19. He's a half decent player and he was practicing. When was this end of 2020 with a local English kid to use. He's pretty good. His name escapes me now. He was playing in the US Open juniors. And he practices regularly in Spain and in my Luke had played against Lorenzo Musetti and a commentator on him in the junior Ozzy Open final and we're speaking about how could he Lorenzo was as a junior, and he says he's good. But I'm telling you I've been practicing with this other kid in Spain called Carlos Alcaraz. And this kid is even better. he reckoned amateur what billion Mazetti. I haven't seen a play. Not so sure about that. I'd have to see it firsthand. So that's when it first came onto my radar that there was this guy out there from Spain. He was pretty good, but I hadn't seen much of him play. And then I heard a story on ATP tennis. Radio, I think was Barry Cowan was interviewing Ricardo piatti and he was talking about a match that Centerplate I think was back in 2018, actually against this young kid. And he was a three love in the deciding set. And he was only 17 at the time was Cinna. Three level P was in the deciding set ended up losing at six, three. Ricardo wasn't on the road with him came home and recorded. I'm glad you lost to somebody younger than you. Because you've had so much success and 17 already that if you lost to somebody who was older than you, you wouldn't care as much you would use that as an excuse. But now that you've lost to somebody younger than you want you to remember as well that when you're up three loving the third, you've got to put your foot on the neck. And this young kid that he lost to was called Carlos Alcaraz. So once again, that was just another little pig there on the line. Okay, who's this kid man, this kid must be pretty good. And then I started watching him make his way through the Challenger events and that's when he you know, maybe two years ago, he really came onto my radar in a big way. But even still, I cannot believe how meteoric the rise has been, and how quickly everything has come together. And what a complete player he is.

Daniel Kiernan  10:12

No, it's phenomenal. It's, you've probably heard if you've heard the podcasts. I've spoken about it before, but I saw him almost three years ago. Now, its mad how time flies. And speaking to Juan Carlos, Juan Carlos was like, Look, this guy's already a top 100 player, you know, he really is and he Was anyone to 15 cares, start of the year, basically, like challenger events, in the excitement level that when he walks on the court, he brings, but Robbie, I want I want to get to you. But before I get to you, I I have to mention the Laver cup. And the reason I have to mention the Laver cup, I am absolutely not an advocate of the Laver cup. However, I hardly missed a ball this year. So what I'm wondering is, was that just the emotion, the Federer factor that I think, you know, it's almost been talked to death. We've talked to death on the podcast about it. But it was it was just incredible. You know, we sat there crying, it felt like we were all together, the tennis tennis community was worn. And we just kind of had this three days of crying basically. But is once that settles, and that's gone. And 2023 Laver Cup comes around. Does it go back to being a bit of a naff exhibition that we're not so sure about? or is this going to become the real deal of an event?

Robbie Koenig  11:44

Yeah, I mean, so far, you know, they've had all the top guys playing. So that's been so key will Rafa and Novak continue to play on it as it as it continues to evolve. Obviously, there's not a lot of years left for them anyway. And without Roger as the you know, the ultimate pull factor in the sport is no one like him. So I'm fascinated to see how that shakes out is. It's Carlos Alcaraz and Jannik Sinner and Stef Tsitsipas stiffs and these kind of guys able to carry an event like that. I honestly don't know the answer, I would probably say not. Right now, if you asked me, I would say those guys will not be able to carry the event like it's been carried. And, you know, I guess the tickets are expensive, you're paying a lot for these guys, obviously, to be there. There's a structure in place so that the agents can't really negotiate. I think there was something that a teammate did very intelligently, you know, depending on what your ranking is, if your former world number one, or if you're a former Grand Slam champion, you got top dollar, and then it gets bracketed down from there on and so you're paying these guys a lot of money to be part of it. Yeah, I'm not sure there should be it should be counted, counting towards the head to head given the format. So I love to listen, I've been part of all the Laver cups, I haven't been part of the last two. I couldn't get a visa last year and I had my 25th wedding anniversary this year. So I wasn't part of it. But there are amazing events the energy around there the energy that Rog creates them and you've probably watched them live on numerous occasions. It's just I've never been around it like that and tennis and of course with Novak and and refer that brings the best out of him. Because they you know, they are characters very different to him. And I think that dynamic plays out well. You know, the yin and the yang, I think it's so important and rivalries, you know, basically represent exactly the opposite to everything that Rogers and then you've got Novak who's got an edge to him, that kind of ignites the crowd like no one else. So it's very difficult to replicate that dynamic. So right now, I would say the next two editions might be tough. They certainly don't think there will be as good as the last couple that definitely off the top of my head.

Daniel Kiernan  14:16

And in terms of it's a bigger picture topic, but it's tennis, that our passion, you know, we we all love it and the T the team events do tend to get people going the interest going, you know, a little bit different to maybe outside of Grand Slam. Certainly, you know, we hear a lot of negativity and you're on the coalface we can week out so be great to hear your thoughts on where that's at. But is there space for more team events? You know, people say there is yet world well, Team Tennis is just kind of whatever just thrown in there. It's not it's not really an established and establish global events. You know, we've then had the big arguments around ATP cup and Davis Cup, the changing of how that happens. So people are maybe a little bit less interested in, in those events than they once were, you know, is tennis getting a little bit caught up in trying to be modern than bring in these new events, compared to the tradition of what tennis is that and I guess where where do we where do we go with it, you know, cricket have rebranded in so many ways 2020 The Hundred, you know, there's there's sports that are fighting, they're fighting for that space right now. You know, what's your what's your take on that bigger picture?

Robbie Koenig  15:44

I do think it's important to try and be innovative. I think if you stand still for too long and rest on your laurels, and don't innovate, certainly in a in an age where we all now. I think if you don't give it a try, I think you would be doing yourself a disservice as a sport. And for me, the ultimate barometer is the reactions from the fans. Do you put bums on seats? Do you create a great atmosphere? Because if you tick those two boxes, I love the events. I don't care what it is. For me, that's the ultimate barometer at the end of the day. Whether it has points or doesn't have points or if you know if some people think it's a Mickey Mouse event that's no problem. I just point towards the fan experience is the venue full, yes, they must be doing something right

Daniel Kiernan  16:40

And outside of the slams Laver Cup is that the case?

Robbie Koenig  16:50

David Cup in some of the venues was good I don't compensate Davis. Nick Lester was giving me some good feedback on that he said certainly in Spain, but of course you've got you've got the benefit of Rafa playing there and you're gonna have Carlos Alcaraz in years to come. So you know, there is a host city anywhere in Spain, I think there's going to be well supported some of the other venues not so much. But But I think that's very easy to track. When we're at tournaments, we get to see which tournaments are well supported. There is no question combined events are better for the fan experience. Forward if we can, we can get those masters 1000s to to be combined events make sure we have enough facility this was a big problem, right enough practice course. For everybody there wouldn't be increased the drawer size. That's that's the biggest challenge in the infrastructure. But there is no doubt that so when I got a sneaky feeling that the ATP cup is going to evolve into a mixed event. That's what I'm hearing from tennis. And I think that's, that's great for the sport. I really do.

Daniel Kiernan  18:02

I mean, I used to love the Hopman Cup. And, and I actually if I go to the Olympics, it's the mixed events like the mixed doubles where it's badminton or the triathlon. That was like a sprint triathlon, mixed sprint triathlon, there's something special about it, it gives it it gives a bit of a different feel. And I think there's definitely space for that. But my, your, your number, I'm gonna get all my guests to have like a little patch with their number and I think I think you're, you're gonna be 180 You know, so a very special number you know, you'll get you get you some darts as well to go with it. But it's, you know, with your with your number and 180 podcasts that there's been pretty much everyone that tells me their story. Has got a tennis is in the blood already. Okay, it's already there. It's it's either it's a parent, it's an auntie. It's an uncle to grandfather. It's a it's a local club across the road, which tells me we're not opening up the sport that well, to just new people, people that don't know tennis know, you know, people that haven't had tennis in their lives. Now all you're going to tell me that you are one that just randomly got into the sport. Are you going to tell me that it's in the blood? Something tells me its in the blood? Yeah. Very much in the blood in the family. My uncle on my dad's side, you know, he was a decent tennis player. I think he played in the French Open. He represented South Africa in Davis Cup competition. So Decent, decent, I would say is more than decent.

Robbie Koenig  19:51

You know, I mean, I mean, it's, it's quite a while back. Guy Koenig was the name Guyton as his full name. I mean, bat now 83 Now as Uncle Guy, so you know, there was always that my brother was a very good player. He is the same. I just kept him current. Durbin boy, obviously, Kevin's a Durban boy as well, that went to opposing high schools. And, you know, he was as good as Kevin Curran. And when Kevin decided to go to the University of Texas on a tennis scholarship, he said call center, my brother called, you need to, we need to hit over there together. And that's the place to be. My mom wouldn't have any of it. You know, my brother is quite a bit older than me. There's 14 years between us. And she said, No, you got to go and get a proper degree from a proper University. And that kind of scuppered his tennis career, you went and studied law became a very successful lawyer, But he never really had the opportunity to see how good he could be a tennis. And I've got two more sisters, between him and myself. And then by the time I came around, and I'll show you a bit of promise, and I kind of had to make a decision to go to college in the States, or do I go pro. And it always said to me, if I need some financial help, he'd be there for me. My folks didn't have a lot of money. So I couldn't rely on them. And actually turned on going to college in the states to be part of tennis, South Africa's high performance squad that just increased the size, the size of the squad from four players, there was four players that traveled to eight, they had a bit more funds, and I became part of the second tier squad. And, er, I made the decision to do that. And that's pretty much how my pro career unfolded, but definitely in the family. D. And, yeah, you know, I think back in the 80s, when I was growing up playing tennis, tennis was massively in South Africa. We had a lot of players that were flying the flag, you know, your hand Creek and Kevin Curran, even though they ended up playing under the US flag. Everybody knew that there were there were local boys. So a lot of eyeballs on them a lot of good woman players. Well, women players as well. Tennis was such a big sport, man, it was front and center. You know, the clubs were pumping. I mean, Spain, and it's a very similar sort of, excuse me, feel to me say where it was the place to be on Saturday and Sunday. You know, that's where everybody went to hang out the tennis clubs. There were huge tennis club pumping memberships were brought up there.

Daniel Kiernan  22:27

And in your, your memories of childhood good memories. Did you have a difficult childhood? Did you have a relatively easy plain sailing childhood? How was that

Robbie Koenig  22:38

I had an amazing childhood. Very, very lucky. You know, even though we didn't come from a lot, we never felt like we lacked anything. I mean, I had some epic battles with my next door neighbor, Mark Oliver. Mark was like three years older than me, he wasn't as good as me. But because he was older, he was always a tough out man and we'd have some weird battles Royal and he had an old tarmac court like like you guys have you actually but you know, cracks running through it and actually used to play barefoot until I was about 12 years of age. I just loved it. And if I won the opening set against Mark he would stand by the gate and not let me go to win before I was allowed to go home so they just stand in bully me and said no, we're not going anywhere. You got to stay here and I said Hang on Mark. I just need to get a sip of water tap was outside need a sip of water and it'll be good to go. And you said okay and it step aside and have a sip of water. And I said you have a sip of water here have a sip of water as his head went down to sip the water I just bolted down the driveway turn the corner and Monica where he was chasing me right to the front door. I can't tell you how often that happened. But I absolutely loved it. You know, I played League, a lot of league tennis. When I was younger, I played like mixed League, men's doubles men singles from you know the age of 13 or 14 and it was strong men. You know, the guys I played against with good club players. So I had a lot of good match play. It wasn't that much drilling is one thing I could do. I'd like a little bit more drilling only discovered that much later. Then, when I started to travel overseas where you know, you put in a lot of reps with the backhands-and forehand crosscourt. But you know, specific Bosket feeding to hone my technique. I wish I'd done a bit more of that. When I was younger. That play was never an issue,

Daniel Kiernan  24:32

But it's getting the balance, isn't it because potentially, some people have gone the other way. You know, and they missed the match play. And they certainly they certainly miss out on that club doubles you know that playing against all sorts of edges, stages of of life, you know, learning the tricks of the trade, learning all the different shots at learning, learning how to hold your own on the court. You know, all of those It's that I think of stand so many players in good stead. And it's why South Africa has had a lot of good doubles plays over the years. The UK has Australia has, you know, people that have come from, from that sort of background? My one thing I'd love to I'd love to get your thoughts on actually Rob is, again, as I'm speaking to everyone the saw, I mean, I'm so fortunate to do this, I really do love having these conversations. And me too, I absolutely love it. It's fantastic to just to just to pick people's brains and share his stories and find out and, and where there's, there's some quite clear, like I say, tennis is in the blood. That's quite a clear, standout picture that that's coming through. But one that I'm a little bit conflicted on, is some people have this great childhood, and it's relatively easy. And, you know, off, they go into the world and do they thing, whereas some people and we hear a lot from athletes, they have they have traumas they have, they have challenges of different sorts, I had Ryan Peniston, on last week, you know, he was diagnosed with cancer at age one, you know, but they attribute their successes, often down to the trauma, because of the resilience and the perspectives and all of these bits. So obviously, you would pick a happy childhood over a traumatic childhood. But which, which one, which one puts you in the best place to succeed down the line?

Robbie Koenig  26:41

I'm going to answer that question by saying, there's not too many players that I've ever come across. That have not had to deal with a fair amount of adversity. in some form, that doesn't necessarily mean a traumatic childhood. But, you know, for me, let's say let's I speak from my perspective, initially, it's when I made the decision not to go to college in the States. I knew that was a huge thing. And I knew financially, I had to make this work. So it was all in man, the training, the diet, that everything I was completely in. Because if I didn't make some decent money out of this, I didn't have anything to fall back on. That was my motivation. I couldn't fall back and rely on my mum and dad. So a lot of motivation came from that I wasn't as talented as a lot of the other guys that I grew up playing with the likes of Wayne Ferreira, Grant, Stafford and Marcus O'Driscoll, Kevin Elliot, these guys are Top 10 Top 20 singles players, Kevin's won multiple majors. So the work ethic was always instilled into me by my older brother. So and always believe as well, in order to be good, you're going to have to go through some sort of period of pain for a while, and pain and discomfort and adversity. You know, different guy, Roger Federer, we speak about our talented Roger went to go when he was 14 and stay away from his parents, you know, Monday to Friday hated it cried every time he left on a Sunday night. All these guys and Nadal you know, the upbringing from Uncle Tony, the amount of hours that he put on the courts, I'm telling you, there's probably a lot of times when it wasn't fun to be out there. So I absolutely believe that anybody who's a champion in the sport, and has done significant things in the game, you know, you know, professionals are going to make some money out of the sport. You play good challenger a level and onto the pros. You've had to sacrifice an immense amount of stuff throughout the course of your life and there will be a different degrees of adversity, does more adversity make you a better player? I think if I had to give a stock standard answer, I would say yes.

Daniel Kiernan  29:02

I share a quick story. I want her name. What's her name, but I came across this. It's a parent of a player that I I've come into contact with. And I spoke to her recently. And she is one of the only females that sort of certain level in in the big bank in Australia. And when I spoke to her she she opened up about her story and of what happened back in back in Serbia back in the day, and how she got split up from a family from such a young age. And anyway, this this this whole story when she told the story, it just made complete sense and she said something to me she said because of that. I have zero need or necessity for anything material. anything. So because you said I can move house I can, I can move house every couple of years. That's that's, that's not a problem. However, what I do have is an absolute need to prove that I can be the best in what I do in and that's the, that's the way that she She used that. And I think we do tend to see, Djokovic spoke the other day. And he said, You know, I had no choice I was I was going to be I was going to be a tennis player had to, you know, put me under any immense pressure. I don't feel that after what I went through and what we had to do to enable me to get on to the tennis court. And I think those are some of the bits and I think you're right to bring it up about the adversity, it doesn't have to be a trauma. So if I bring that back to you, Robbie, what was the biggest adversity that you went through throughout your career, that that maybe you might even pinpoint because you've had a very successful career after tennis as well and doing an amazing job, and I'm not just blowing smoke up your backside, you are absolutely one of the best out there on the TV commentary in what you do. So what what was the the big adversities or the when you look at the hardest bits that you had to go through.

Robbie Koenig  31:17

In 91, I started to play, you know, satellites back in the days. And I did okay there. And then 92, I started to play a few more challenger quallies and tour event qualifying back then, you know, if you were ranked 300 in the world, you could get into qualities of just about any Tour event, it wasn't like it is these days. And I figured if I wanted to see how good I was, I needed to stop playing qualities at tournaments. As soon as I could get in, I needed to play. And I started to qualify a couple of events in 92 did one at Washington one a couple of rounds, the third or fourth round. And things were going swimmingly. And then earlier 93 I had some really bad knee problems with my quadriceps tendon going into the top of the knee area, unbelievable pain. And towards the end of 94, I was pretty much I couldn't, I couldn't run. And after having a great start and doing well in qualifying and singles and a few dubs events as well and making some money back then I had, I remember when I had to stop in 94 I had like $40,000, in my bank account, I thought I was a rock star, there was a rock star but and suddenly, this has all come to an end. Now I had to go back and have an operation and didn't do any major surgery that had to surgery the first time. So I was up for four months, I stepped back onto the court. And I've got exactly the same pain, I trained for two weeks. No better. The initial surgery was no good had to go back and have big surgery after that, which kept me out for about nine months. So I ended up being out for about 11 months and then come back after that. And I'll tell you what, that was dark times for me. In terms of my tennis, I was wondering like, you know, what am I going to be like when I come back? To be out for this long? The best part about that the silver lining to that or was that was the time when I met my wife, because I ended up being at home and being in one place for a decent amount of time. So that was the greatest blessing that came out of that hole, that period in 9495. But from a tennis perspective, I did. I really did worry as to you know, again, how am I going to make a living, I haven't got the university degree to fall back on. So that was in the back of mind. But again, it motivated me to be incredibly disciplined. That's when I started to read books and Tony Robbins, that's when I discovered Tony Robbins, Awaken the Giant Within that was a book that changed my outlook on life. And the ability to control your mind and I got into mental training in a big way back in, you know, 90 that would have been about 96. And, you know, I felt that that's always been a big strength of mine going forward wasn't a big deal back then. And I discovered it by chance really. And I worked a lot on mental training John Chios book mind power, one of the best books I've ever read, small book, great starter book for people who want to get into mental training kids 17 1819 So simple. And I stumbled across some of these books. And then I really started to work very intelligently on my mind, getting that right the thought processes behind that. I was a big advocate of it too, when there was a book that my brother passed on to me the you know, the sports nutrition Bible back in the day, and I had all this time on my hands so I was doing a lot of reading and fine tune my diets. And I remember when I came back after that lengthy layoff almost 13 months in total. I've never hit the ground running so well. My wife, and the pi and then from everything I had been doing was, was right up there. So I knew I had to be good mentally. And I had to be really disciplined with my diet, because I'd never woken up every morning was so much energy and just wanting to just kill the tennis court. That was the best feeling ever. So out of that real hard, adverse time canvas. You know, this, I guess, this time of discovery for me?

Daniel Kiernan  35:26

Because that would be quite abnormal for that time as well. The people weren't, it wasn't as mainstream certainly is, now that you're working with sports psychologists are working on the mind, or working on the nutrition. You know, that's, I guess the point, I'm also getting to here, Robbie, is you that age 2425 sort of age, I get what I will be there absolutely. Spot on. Yeah. So that age, that seems like quite a mature thing to take on as well. You know, if you think 2425 year olds nowadays, you know, unless, unless it's almost put on their plate, and on their lap. It's it's very, there's a lot of intrinsic motivation that seems to seems to be coming through there. So where's that intrinsic motivation come from?

Robbie Koenig  36:17

It actually came from my father in law initially, who had all this time on my hand. And he said, one of the best books he ever read was Dale Carnegie's book, How to Win Friends and Influence People. That was one of the first books that I ended up reading heddles Tom man, and I do the rehab everyday, but then there's not a lot more you can do. And it's funny then, because I was never a reader at school ever. And it was only at this stage, that I started to become a big reader. And I enjoyed it so much initially. And that was the book. And then I heard about this guy called Anthony Robbins. And then his book was incredible. The level of detail and everything on how to train the mind together with John Chios book manpower, John Kerry actually was speaking in South Africa at the time, and I went to listen to one of his talks, and I was just, you know, so motivated after listening to him speaking. And he spoke about how you condition your mind how you can train, it's a muscle, like any other muscle in your body, and you have to work on it on a daily basis. And that, you know, you know, 10 minutes every day is much better than 70 minutes, once a week, you know, that, you know, consistency is the only currency that matters sort of thing. And I kind of learned that then. And that helped me immensely, man, that was fantastic during those tough times. And that was my, my adverse time there, no question. But so much positive come comes out of it, you know, when you're in trouble, and you have to dig and search and find solutions, you know, you you become, you become almost obsessed to find solutions. I almost feel like I'm a knee guru, when it comes to the knee and out of the call after a knee now, you know, when I see players that have knee problems, almost want to run down to them and say, Hey, man, I've got so many good things. I'd never heard from specialists that I've discovered, I'd love to share it with you. You know, trial and error.

Daniel Kiernan  38:18

But that's that with that outlook, because there's there's opportunity and threat isn't there the way the mind works? You know, and I think naturally, the human brain tends to go to threat, you know, but being able to switch adversity into opportunity, because in one thing I read, and I've really taken it with me it was I've ever read it or I heard somebody in a talk is when something bad happens, said good in your head. And it's something I've really, really tried to do. And that's Control the Controllables. That's where control the controllables really took off in my head in in everything that happened. So the pandemic was the biggest test of that and, you know, running an International Tennis Academy in Spain, where you rely on people flying to you, or players flying out to tournaments and training. And this bloody thing rocks up where all of a sudden, none of us can leave our house. That was a big challenge to say good. But we managed to and collectively as a team, we managed to go Okay, good. There's opportunity here. We don't we don't know what the opportunity is yet. But there is there is opportunity here. And and the first thing that we then were able to do is everyone was saying you can't do this. We can't play tennis. We can't go to the gym. We can't. And so we were on the first day of the pandemic back March. It was March 14, we went in Spain for eight weeks, we started the we can project, stop telling us what you can't do, you know, and every single player coach parents at the Academy had to fill in a document and it was called the we can project. And, and just that, that small shift of, of mine to be able to, to look at the opportunity is is huge and it's, it's something I wish I had when I was a player. You know, I'd love to whinge at the umpire and whinge it, the bad, draw I got and the lead all the usual nonsense that tennis players do. So So that takes me into Robbie, you're now a tennis parent, you know, you know, you're very much a tennis parent. I know. I believe you got three children. You know, Luke is the one I see I do. I see his results. I see I see them coming in. I know, you know, he's ranked ATP about 1200. And just gone to Baylor University i

Robbie Koenig  40:59

He goes in January. That's right.

Daniel Kiernan  41:02

So what are your key messages now as a as a tennis parent, because you've, you've got so much you've lived so much. But it's it's it's there's a lot of information we want to give. But if you if you kind of tie it down to two or three key messages, what are your repeatable messages that you're passing on to your kids, in particular, Luke, if he's playing, he's playing to an international level?

Robbie Koenig  41:27

I think, to other parents, the first thing I would, I would tell them is that tennis is a team sport growing up, you need other players around you. I am such a big advocate of the best kids training together. I do not like this idea of having different training bases to accommodate people all over the country. I think the best players need to come together if for whatever reason. They're up in Wales can't come down to the NTC to train. Yes, we can try to help them out as much as we can funding catch the train back and forward. But to be around other kids that have a strong mentality, good talent level, I just have a look back at the programs that work the best. And that is, there is no question that that is the way it works best. I grew up with so many good players around me just in Durban where I was, you know, lots of guys ended up going to college in the States, Wayne Ferreira, he won a couple of majors and doubles, Kevin Elliot, and a lot of good qualities, we must have had 12 or 15 guys a squad on a Monday and a Friday to train with at least college level. So that would be number one, don't think your kid is so special that they need to practice on their own and not mixed with other kids. I think it's the number one way to kill, kill a kid's interest in the sport. Because now we'll go to and actually said a great thing to me says my number one goal when I'm working with talented kids, is to still keep them in the sport. By the time they're 18. And, you know, I've just watched my boy come come through now and he's 19 years of age and level a spot on. And I think if you can have a coach that can teach them good discipline, whatever that discipline might be, doesn't have to necessarily practicing for four hours every day, but just consistency of discipline. You know, do your bands, do your stretching, hit your serves on your own? I think that would be the second one, if you can try and implement that. And I think third, you know, my doubles partner, John, he always thinks it's very important to have a strong relationship with the parents. And you have to almost coach the parents as much as you have to coach the kids. And he runs a very successful program up in Johannesburg. And he is on the parents cases a lot and speaking to them trying to educate them, whether they want to hear or not. Whether it's a tough message he's giving he's very good at delivering it in in the right way. Because you've got to have them on board. They are the ones who are doing the fetching and the carrying everyday taking the kids to practice and I think it was Missy Franklin, the swimmer. You know, her dad said you never wanted to push her. And he never would push her. But if she didn't show dedication, he wasn't going to drop her and fetch her from swimming every day. And he said he would do anything for as long as she asked. So she had to be at swimming pool five o'clock in the morning. He'd be the guy to take her. But if she wanted to miss some morning, he wasn't going to be the guy who said you've missed a morning Shouldn't you go he left that on her and I thought that was very interesting. I enjoyed reading her book. So I think be supportive. You know, there's a reason the coaches, the coach, they've been there, they've done it normally, a lot of the guys are good coaches, you know, if you're going to trust them, trust them in their entirety, give them a fair, fair crack at it.

Daniel Kiernan  45:11

And how are you as a tennis parent?

Robbie Koenig  45:17

I mean, look, and I've had days where he's, he's fed up with me, doesn't want to practice with me. I think I've found a decent balance. He's got other coaches as well in South Africa. So I think that's been good for him to hear the message coming from, I guess, a different mouth. So you know, I think I've got a lot to offer hold on to very high standards. I don't hold them to South African standards, or trying to make them accountable to, you know, world standards, what's happening in Spain, or France or Italy. Sometimes he doesn't like that. Sometimes he understands that course it frustrates you when it's coming from Dad. But also try and tell him I'm doing it out of love for him, right? I don't do it for me, my career has come and gone. And if anybody can share great ideas with you, it's me, I'm around week in and week out. And I think the tough part for him, because he didn't travel a lot when he was under 14 and 15. And 16, as a junior internationally is to see the level. So when you go to tournaments, you know, wherever you are in South Africa, and you think you're the main man. But I would say that's the beautiful thing about being in Europe is you've got so many good players. And it's easy to hop across to Germany or Spain, and see the levels of you that, and I feel the dominant force. And in Portugal, it's not that far to go to Spain and play some tournaments there. So of course, because of our place on a world map, it's not so easy for us and it's expensive to travel and you're paying in dollars and pounds and euros. So for for a lot of kids early on in their careers, it's not easy to do in a go to orange bar, if you can afford it and just see what the levels like. I wish I'd done a little bit more of that, because we were going to do it in his last years as a junior because he started he grew quite late. And he got very tall first year 18s. And just when we had funding from to travel, and get a feel for you know what the rest of the world is like out there pandemic struck. So the two years of the of COVID was just untimely for him. But I think I'm a decent tennis parent probably give myself probably 8.3 on the Dave Portnoy scale

Daniel Kiernan  47:41

Is it harder than you thought? Because that's, I guess, as a as a tennis person who's you know, you're watching and you're around some of the most dramatic matches of all time, you know courtside and you're, you're feeling that and the and you've you've played yourself, you've you've coached, you've you've, you've been around at all the levels, but then you stick yourself at the side and you've got your flesh and blood on the you're watching and you're feeling it. It's it's quite hard to understand that it's going to be quite as difficult some of the emotions you go through. Have you been immune to that? Or is that something that you've actually had to really work hard on dealing with? And on Did it surprise you I guess is the point. I'm getting at

Robbie Koenig  48:37

you hear it? But it's only when you feel it that you realize how emotionally attached you get and is very few tennis parents that I've spoken to who who don't feel it you I mean, it affects you big time. I mean, there was some beautiful scenes this year US Open with Tracy Austin and her son Brandon on it's lovely. I mean literally nobody can speak to Tracy when Brandon's playing his girlfriend is there stiff standing or sitting next to her and that's it man. She is just like so zoned and you know white knuckles everywhere. And I think same for most parents you feel deep down and sad because you've been there from the very beginning for for a lot of them. I think probably the toughest part is getting the balance right between pushing them to the nth degree because you know, it's necessary and at the same time, being a loving caring parent because our naturally I'm quite an affectionate guy. You know, my dad is French Mauritian and everybody's hugging and kissing. It's, it's not too dissimilar to where you are in Spain. It's very much like that's how I grew up. So there's a lot of that in my family. So finding that balance between the discipline required and being tough on the court. would say, No, we're not leaving. Now. We did another 45 minutes of forehands and backhands because you've been batting average. And him saying, Oh, well, it's not going to make a big difference. I'm rubbish today. I'm like, No, we're staying here. We've got to walk work through it. That's the hardest part, then that's the hardest part. Because if I was the coach, if I was only the coach as such, say, No, you're not leaving the court. And we're going to do so we're going to do it right. And I don't give a shit what you say?

Daniel Kiernan  50:25

And Is he is he able to, so I'm a tennis parent as well. So I'm I'm a few years behind you. My boy is 11 He'll be 12. And in a few weeks, and he's he's already you know, he's winning matches at Tennis Europe's he won a little international tournament in Switzerland this summer. And I guess I, I speak to him with three camps. It because because I'm the director of the SotoTennis Academy. He's not the best behaved kid, he's getting better in fairness to him. But he has had to have warnings from me as the director. I am currently his coach, you know, and, you know, there's coaches at the academy that help. And then I'm his dad. And, and I actually what I find, and whether it works or not, I don't know, Robbie. But what I what I find is I try and say, Okay, now, I am talking to you as a coach. Now I am talking to you as director of SotoTennis Academy, you know, now I'm talking to you as dad, and I try and really define my messaging route through the roles. And I look, I think it's worked to a degree up until this age, put him as a 14, 15 year old that piss off dad, you know, I think it'll I think it'll change. But how have you managed those, those boundaries? And Luke, do you think he's able to give you the respect for the different roles that you're playing?

Robbie Koenig  50:39

Yeah, that's tough to know. That would be a great question to ask him. Because, you know, and I always remind them over and over again, I do it because I love him. And I want the best for him. And I know what is required at the highest level, literally, if I've said those three sentences, a million times when he's sick and tired of hearing it, and you just say to me, but you're my dad, right? You know, the fact that you're on TV doesn't matter to me, you know, other people might think that's great, but at the end of the day, you're my dad. And that's what I see. As well as the tennis knowledge. Maybe they don't put you on a pedestal, if you want to say that, like, some random person would, because they see you on TV, and they hear you all the time. And, you know, they think you're a tennis aficionado because of that, but when it's your son, he doesn't think of you like that. So, but he's a good kid. He's a good kid, I would say he hasn't been pushed enough by his peers. That's what we've been lacking the most. And certainly this year, he's been he's out of juniors now. And he's been traveling, you know, playing futures all around the world and he has loved it. I think one of two things happen you either become disheartened by the level, because it's tough. Or you think wow, this is what I want to be around. And I just you know, a couple of weeks ago, come back from playing some some futures and he said to me, I can't tell you how much I enjoy practicing and being around much better guys on a daily basis. Now it's just the best thing. So he certainly growing into to the challenges of being a decent player. And I think a couple of years of college are doing well, he's at a good school is with some good coaches. And I think the level of college tennis has gone up incrementally in the last five years, maybe eight years or so, more and more players are dipping their toe on the air for this transition years. They're not getting help from Federation's. And I think it's a great way to translate into the pros. And there's so many programs now where, you know, the coaches are happy to have Dan and Robbie along for two years, if it's only two years and nurture them towards a pro career because they know if they've got a player with that kind of attitude who wants to be a pro, I mean, it can only be a good thing for the college team. So it ends up being a win win situation, you know, the player gets great facilities good coaching and and the possibility for an education and and the coach gets a player who's you know, is committed to the sport and and wants to go further with it. So I think it's a win win certainly and Luke's case it's, it's a huge plus we're so pumped today having him on board.

Daniel Kiernan  54:57

And is that a bit of a full circle for you that Have you know you've come round? You said, when you were that age, you had that decision. You had that decision to maybe go to a US college or maybe go pro is, Are you the cynics will say us as tennis parents, we will live our, our lives through through the kids in some ways. Do you feel separated enough that you can absolutely look at this as, as Luke's tennis career and? And what's right for Luke? Or do you think there's some influence on your story jumping into jumping into decisions that have been made?

Robbie Koenig  55:38

That's a good question, then. You know, I said to him this year, I said to him, Look, if you show me that you can, you can at least make semis or finals or win futures, then then you told me you're good enough that you can at least go pro, I don't have to worry too much about funding it. Because if you win in futures, you're probably breaking even on a weekly basis. It's not costing, you know, me and your mother, a fortune to keep you out there. And it shows me you've got the level, for me, it's just about the level, you know, and within a year of playing, that hasn't happened. So you know, let's go and it's develop physically, you're going to be practicing with 10, 12 guys that are at least your level probably better than you. And you're going to be able to do an extremely competitive environment. So do that for a year or two and see where you're at, they're off the road. See, if you still love them as much as you do. And it's not going to cost me an absolute arm and leg, because if you're not winning matches that I'm having to pay.

Daniel Kiernan  56:44

That's a lot of matches to commentate on. That absolute, you lose your voice.

Robbie Koenig  56:54

And I want to be commentating on him, right, because then he's playing the masters 1000s in the majors. So that's kind of, you know, we had a discussion at the beginning of the year. And, you know, he hasn't shown the level yet, that's required of him, I think, to go pro so, and college is a fantastic option.

Daniel Kiernan  57:12

But I think that there's some really smart advice there. And for those listening, it's like, our parameters are very similar to I really believe unless you are regular semifinals, final winners of future events, you're not quite ready, you're not quite ready. And that might be an extra 12 months, it might be an extra 24 might be an extra 36 of doing the right things. But that tends to be and it always amazes me is how many kids aren't even winning matches in qualifying in futures. And they think no and I'm not going to college, it's it's, you know, if you are not, not going the distance in futures events, get yourself to college kids, get yourself to college, you know, gone, gone, develop physically, emotionally, mentally, you know, get some life experiences under your belt and, and go from there, you know, and I think I think it's nice to have those little criterias and barometers for, for parents, coaches, and players are looking that are looking into it.

Robbie Koenig  58:19

Yeah, and I think you'd be surprised how many players are college already, during the summers or doing at least that winning futures events. And so going back to college? So I mean, as I said, the level is extremely high. We did some recruit recruitment trips now in May, I think it was April, May, I couldn't believe how good the level was at college tennis. So I'm excited for him. I don't think it's a step back at all. I think it's a nice incremental step forward.

Daniel Kiernan  58:52

Robbie, are moving you into the commentator, you know, we talk about, we talk about the different hats, you know, certainly, you know, you've got a few hats that you've played in your career. And my first question around this, you know, I need to know where you come up with these, these amazing words, these these statements, you know, is is this something that you preempt? Or is this just the exciting the excitement that the that the words just come together and come out?

Robbie Koenig  59:25

Yeah. Well, you kind of work on it, write your work on language, just by reading. And then you try and expand your vocabulary because of it then. So, if I do read good things and nice expressions, I'm quite diligent about writing it down. So that it becomes part of my vocab and you know, you know, my list is 250 long right now of, of different ways of describing something that's exhilarating. And it started because in the early days when I was working for Tennis TV, ATP media, and when, when highlights started to become a regular thing, on the platforms on the different social media platforms, I found myself describing great points in pretty much the same way. And it's only when it's in the highlight reel, that, you know, you get appointed at one, or you might get something at three, or you might get something at five, three, when you're commentating live, you don't know what you've said back then. And you keep the lights on unbelievable shot, I said, unbelievable forehand of what an unbelievable volley when you heard in the highlights, and I thought, man, it's bangg average, right? I'm just using the same words. And of course, by nature, sports is repetitive, right? There's only so many ways you can describe. So it's only so many ways you can, you know, hit a forehand winner. And so I have to think of different ways of describing this. And that's what preempted me to get better with my language. And then you become an instructor to become something quite conscious for me when I'll be reading books on whatever it might be, or listening to a football game. And Martin Tyler says something that's amazing, or John Drury comes up with something in a football context. And I think, well, if I tweak that somewhat, I can make that into a tennis term. So I'll take a little bit from that, add my own to it, and then, you know, make it mine sort of thing. So yeah, it's a, it's basically a collaboration of reading, listening to other commentators. I love the American sports because you know, their show good enthusiasm, I find that, you know, just from a personal point of view, I'm naturally a passionate person. So for me, when when a person's had an unbelievable forehand, I don't understand how commentariat can just say, as a great forehand there from that person, I don't understand that, because 90% of people will have much jumping out of the chair thinking how the hell is he done that? Why would you deliver it in such a vanilla manner? So all those things go through my mind? You know, when I'm trying to better myself as a broadcaster? And, you know, ultimately, it is about language, how you describe something? And how do you connect with the people at home? I think, because I was a little different early on, that kind of became my thing. And then you kind of just roll with it, that becomes your identity. And as I've said, on many occasions, I think this, there's so many great analysts out there a lot of people who've commented, well, how do you, Rob Koenig, differentiate yourself from everybody else, because I certainly don't have, you know, the same CV as some of the people out there, commentating who have been Grand Slam champions, or, you know, top tens in the world. So I've got to make sure I'm very damn articulate, and I couldn't make it highly entertaining for people at home. And then, you know, you've got to do your homework. And I've been, I was very lucky, I think, because I was so limited in my skill set, I was very good at analyzing the game and analyzing my opponents and picking out strengths and weaknesses. So when it comes to tactics, and imagine I'm watching from the commentary position, I think one of my best skills I had is the ability to pick out tactics quickly and see what's going on and work out a player's strengths and weaknesses, and then try and convey that message to the viewers at home. And, you know, we've been there with Hawker since the very beginning. So that's given me an enormous amount of information to try to back up the tech tactics that I'm trying to sell. And you know, the early days we had so many good guys, Peter, who is now one of the main dudes there with Hawkeye, he was so good at feeding us information. And I was just so lucky the timing of when I got into commentating was just so lucky. So very blessed that I could do lead and color in the early days, you know, somebody former player, normally they just do do the color pieces, the expert analysis, but you know, from from an early age had to learn how to leave commentate as well. Of course, as you get older, and these new young guns come up and they want to do commentary. I think it puts you in a in a good position then because you're new can be the lead commentator, and you have a different role that you can fulfill.

Daniel Kiernan  1:04:32

I love that answer. I really do. Because if you if you take that answer, and you stick that into any industry, any anything that we want our our, our kids to learn, you know, our tennis players, you know, preparation, you know, like meticulous the way that you've got it You've gone about it. It's not the answer I was expecting. I will if I'm honest, I was half expecting. Yeah, just it's things come out. But it's not the case. And just like, Roger Federer is incredible, you know, tennis elegance comes out at the end. It's the years and years of preparation that goes into it, that enable that to happen. And, and for people to hear that story to take to take that insight on board. I, I just completely love that answer. And I think, you know, you sharing that really will go will go a long way. But I I have to ask, what's what's your favorite? Because we've got I've got a list here. You know, I've looked at all I mean, some of the when you say, like, we're talking about making up words. I mean, there's some there's some good creativity, you know, a phenomeNadal? Yeah, it's come out there, Kyriculous . So I guess, I guess this is Mr. Kyrgios, on the court. So there's been you literally have your own dictionary, what's the one for you that you can pinpoint. And God you know what, that got so much traction, and also gave you the belief that you know, what, what I'm doing is a good thing. I need to now really take this on board. And this needs to become my brand.

Robbie Koenig  1:06:28

Well, first of all, with that kind of stuff, you just having fun initially, you know, that's what that is. And that's when I watch sports. That's what I don't want it to be too serious. Because I'm watching my mates, you know, in something stupid happens of me and you were sitting on a couch with, I don't know, if Nick Lester was on the one side of us. And now and Casey was on the other, the first thing we'd do is we'd say something silly fun about what we've just seen slapping each other in the heads that has the guy doing that. So that is just me having a bit of fun. But I think the one that got a lot of traction was reflexes, like a mongoose on amphetamines, when Roger was involved in some ridiculous rally, I think was was Djokovic or both at the pinging the ball back and forth. And, you know, I said that, that kind of went viral. And again, it was the timing with, you know, tennis, TV, and those sort of clips going onto social media and Roger being at the peak of his powers. And so obviously, that got a lot of traction. So your favorite, I don't know, if I have a favorite sometimes. I think the hardest thing for me, Dan was in the early days is when you start to kind of get material. And you realize that it's a piece of material, but it's really only put into one play, it might be a chunk of virtual money via the federal one a doll that you can use it with. And you crowbarred in there. And you listen to it back. And you think what that frickin hell was that, be patient wait for the time and the place you don't have to use it this week, you might only you might have to wait six months to use it. And I think I learned that, that timing is everything. So when you've got a nice little piece of material that you've picked out to fine tuned is being patient and waiting and I normally have a visual in my head of when the perfect time would be to use it. And that's when you get the satisfaction that patience that Tom comes, you're on the match. It's a big match. It's a big time and the match and the guard pulls off a fantastic shot and you give the description that just kind of completes the picture. And you think shit yeah, that that was good timing. And that nailed that and you feel good for it. But you know, there's times where you bugger it up because you're impatient and you've got to remind yourself man just you know be disciplined. So yeah, I mean it's there's a lot that I that I enjoy and it never stops Quotes From Famous sports people I think trying to find the right time to use those always think that's important. I think it's a nice bit of I don't know maybe it shows up good articulation. That's the word I'm looking for. Bring up a quote from Ed Mosers or somebody who has been an absolute absolute iconic and maybe another sport and bring it in maybe something Tiger Woods said so you know I'll make notes of those and then I'll use them in commentary you know, off the top of my head I use one from from Edwin Moses. I love track and field. So that's why people who don't know it, Moses, I mean he held he was unbeaten for nine years. nine months, nine days in the 400 meter hurdles. And when he finally lost, you know, he said losing is not the end. In fact, it is the beginning of the inner dialogue upon which progress depends. And if you listen to those words, they are so pertinent on the Yep. And, you know, I'd say that sometimes when a player's played an unbelievable match, maybe it's had some match points that he's walked off. And, you know, you think about the camera cut? Bosh, you see the guy walking off the court there, he's down. But we know, he's played a heck of a match. And, you know, that's when I would say something like that. And hopefully, he'll learn from it and be better from it. But it's so much better that it's somebody like it, Moses who said it rather than me. So, you know, you know, you think of yourself, I think, when I'm in a commentary position is, you know, how can I just sell that experience, and make it the best for fair and I'm very, very conscious of it. And, of course, some people don't like my style of commentary, you always give people like something that's more vanilla, I'm more passionate and outgoing. Some people do like just a vanilla kind of commentary. So you get your critics, but that's who I am. I don't pay too much attention to it

Daniel Kiernan  1:11:23

How much have you done on radio. So and just to, to the listener, tell us that tell us the difference from a commentator standpoint, doing doing radio to TV.

Robbie Koenig  1:11:39

So depending on your role, if you're the expert doesn't change too much. The lead the lead, the lead commentator, obviously, you're describing every single shot, and how the rally is unfolding, because obviously, there's no visuals. So I do it. Throughout Wimbledon, I do radio commentary, it's the only event that I do do. So you've got to be so aware of what is going on your concentration is going to be so much more intense and laser like and you're always scouting the court to see if something's going to happen or has happened that you want to relate to, to the listener, because you don't want to miss anything. And especially for a poor kid has maybe fallen over they've, they've slipped into the top and hit their head on the back of the court, you know, sometimes that month. Now, if we said on the TV, you see it and it's easy for everybody to see. But obviously for the listener, so I'm very conscious of of trying to tell them as much information as I can. But at the same time, not give him too much information, because they've got to be able to digest that. Okay, if this has happened, then deliver it in a nice incremental manner that I don't overload, overload them with information, but hopefully give them enough that they have a picture in their mind. So that's hard. When you are done with a five set match as a lead commentator on radio you are spent. But I think it is just so good for you or for your vocabulary and being able to describe different things and the fact that you can go off on tangents, somewhat on radio, something you can't really do on TV. And that's great, especially when you're a co commentator that's good good banter with you. And I don't know You know, I love my music, my 80s music and you can you know, go on a tangent there to change your veins. You know, Mick Jagger is here watching the tape, and then you go off about great, you know, songs from the Rolling Stones and you know, stuff like that is just frickin awesome. I love that about radio.

Daniel Kiernan  1:13:43

And it's it's so special to listen to radio good radio commentary. And I like listening to the cricket I know when I was when I was growing up we always had the cricket on in the car and it there's some firm so special about good radio commentary and but I never quite appreciated just how difficult it was but also how special it was. And and I was fortunate to do a little bit of commentary as the expert on radio five a few years ago and be next to Jonathan Overington and we were at the French Open and I was like oh my god he he's the way he's described that is actually better than even is here. You know like you know from from at what Federer was wearing as he walked out, you know his cardigan to Boris Becker in the crowd. You know the weather to just the descriptive nature. And I was sat there going well, that was a good forehand that Federer hit on breakpoint and then I'm just like listening, just in complete, all complete and utter awe of have that ability, you know and for, for someone to do that. So it's so impressive that you as a professional tennis player, as I've come through your playing career, and then you've learned your trade to be able to do that lead role, because to do the to do the lead role on radio for me is the is the deluxe. It's the it's the Rolls Royce of commentary. And like you said, there you absolutely love it. So how was how much was natural? I know you say you work at it, and you clearly do. But you obviously had quite a natural, natural way about you that somebody would put you in that lead position as well.

Robbie Koenig  1:15:48

Yeah, but to thank Steve Tim and Ollie from, from Radio One channel for for giving me that opportunity. But I've been commentating for a while already. So I was familiar with TV. And I always listened to it during Wimbledon Radio One more than when it was on. And Nicholas, Nick had been doing a little bit of the radio commentary and with content together, but he was always the lead. And, you know, I'd love to give it a crack. And I just said to him, I said one day, if you need me as a lead commentator, I'm happy to give it a go. I think I'll be okay, you know, I don't need commentating, I had a feeling as to what needed to be done and radio, stick me on to the outside courts, and I'm happy to give it a go. And you know, just repetition is the mother of skill, the more you do something, the better you get at a pitch if I put you in a country box, now second time around, in a doing radio, you'd be better, right. And the third time either it could be even hidden by the fourth or fifth time. As Jerry Seinfeld calls it, tonnage, readings, tonnage, the more you can do, the better you get at New fine tuning, cutting your polish. And a big thing is learning from other people, like you say, so Jonathan would be your go to guy, he's the guy you listen to. And you know, you make some notes. If you take it seriously, if it's something that you want to be your job, if you're just dipping a toe in there, and it's something you do once a year, when, when an event comes up, it's different, right? But for us guys who it's our careers, so you know, that seriously, it's like, how do I get better? I want, I want people to use me, I want to have this job. I love this job. So damn much. I want to I want to do it till I'm 85 and then I'll retire.

Daniel Kiernan  1:17:44

My my next bit, I only have I am very conscious of your time, and we've got our quick fire round as well Robbie, that

Robbie Koenig  1:17:52

Don't be don't be.

Daniel Kiernan  1:17:55

But my, my next bit and I I listened to you and I listened to you on the TV and I listen to you listen to you hear two things come to mind, one passion, but two knowledge, you know, and why wouldn't you and you remind me a lot of Petch actually, when I spoke to Petch because you guys have got the lenses, you've come from all the different lenses of the sport, you know, as as players to a very high level, to coaching to, to commentary to tennis parenting, you know, and I think it, it gives you such a layered approach to the sport. So then I asked a couple of the guys, I said, look, as I like to do you know, I don't like to do these podcasts without doing my research and looking into and I said look, Robbie's coming on any any any thoughts on where this? Where this potentially goes? And a couple of guys said to me, I'd love to know why a guy with so much knowledge. isn't putting that to use as a tennis coach, you know, and yes with your son, you are is is that something that is potentially in your future? Is that something that you feel you could combine? Is that something that you feel you're missing out on? Because certainly the game of tennis is missing out on having a tennis brain like yours, not passing that on to the next generation.

Robbie Koenig  1:19:29

I have a real passion for sharing knowledge. First of all. If anybody wants to listen that there will be fun I speak to some of the coaches of top 20 players quite regularly. They'll ask me about certain stuff. And I'll give some feedback. But it's two things. I think one thing that the coaching carousel is a very finicky thing. You know you can be a hotshot for six months and then you're worth Another job six months later, and you don't know how that's going to shake out. Whereas I'm in a job now that's very stable. I know exactly how many weeks I'm working. You know, it's good to me, I get paid well. So, you know, I can't complain about that, for me to go and coach a player now. I absolutely love being on the court. But is the job security is certainly not like what I've got now. And I'm making a good living out of it. Now. I'm not sure if there's many players who'd be willing to pay me as much I know what coaches out there get paid. So, you know, there's certainly that, that consideration. And it's not only about the money, but I've got a family, right. And I've got to think about my future. So from the money side of things, and of course, job security. That's the other one. It's I mean, we know what this coaching carousel is like on the tour, you know, guys will use you they'll promise you the world and three months later that coaches without a job and, you know, contracts on to on something too many players sign up for, I think is a fair few people out there just just happy to be on the tour, and they'll work for, you know, not a lot of money just to be out there. That's not for me. Certainly not for me, but I mean, being on the court is probably first prize. I think what somebody like Darren Cahill does is is you know the best case scenario, we you commentate your 20 to 25 weeks a year and then you can also spend some of the weeks coaching on tour with the with a tour level player. I think that would be fantastic.

Daniel Kiernan  1:21:46

You might, you might, you might have a player that needs you in three or four years time.

Robbie Koenig  1:21:53

I hope so that's my pension plan. Kevin will be on tour. And, you know, I see what's happening I would like Casper Ruud in a Christian cannot imagine how proud he must be of his son. I cannot imagine that pride. And as we discussed earlier, there's emotions that you feel every time your your son steps out of water steps out in the court to play. I couldn't imagine that I'd be in tears. I certainly would if he was playing at Wimbledon and he was playing on court one on center court. He walked out there for the first time I would definitely have to hold back the tears man. Quite a as I said quite an emotional guy.

Daniel Kiernan  1:22:36

Don't hold them back. That it all out. Yeah, absolutely. You know, if that happens, then when you get interviewed afterwards said, Look, I promise control the controllables all those years back, I was just gonna let it I was gonna let it all I was gonna let it all out. Robbie. What's next for you?

Robbie Koenig  1:22:53

DK, I go home to South Africa. I've got a couple of weeks off now. And then I'll come back for Paris. I have a week off and then I'll do children all on amazon prime. So be with the team with the pitch and Nikki and Annabelle and everybody else there. Daniela Greg, Hannah's a good bunch of people, man. It's always good family have good discussions. We try and solve all the world's problems in the green room. But hands on tell us how good his golf swing is. So you're gonna have one awesome lesson good chats man. Some of the stuff that happens in that green room is almost as much fun as the commentating?

Daniel Kiernan  1:23:31

Well, no, I can only imagine and what a what a great way, like you said at the star. What a great way to be to be spending your life you know and be around.

Robbie Koenig  1:23:41

Yeah, I count my blessings every day to get paid to do something that I absolutely love. The novelty hasn't worn off yet. I hope it doesn't. Yeah, very, very, very lucky.

Daniel Kiernan  1:23:55

Before we move into into the quickfire, Robbie, I just want to say thank you, you know, and thank you for what you're doing it for the tennis industry, you know, giving us giving us the sparkle. You know, and you know, we we all we all love listening to you. And, you know, I certainly do I look forward to when I'm watching the match. You know that extra, that experience that you give to me as a fan as well. So thank you for that. And thank you for being so generous with your time. You know, like I say, you have been on a very long list, but you, you've been there. I'm glad we've made it happen. I could talk tennis with you all day all night. And I really do appreciate you giving up your time.

Robbie Koenig  1:24:37

DK everybody loves your loves your podcast. It's been an absolute pleasure. I'm just annoyed that there's 179 guys ahead of me feel like I'm Tom Brady man. 199 in the draft pick. Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel Kiernan  1:24:51

Right. 180 it's not it's not. It's not that it's not a bad number to be at all. So are you ready? Are you ready for the quick fire?

Robbie Koenig  1:25:02

Okay, let's do it.

Daniel Kiernan  1:25:04

What does control the controllables mean to you?

Robbie Koenig  1:25:08

It means exactly what it says. You know, you can only deal with what's in front of you. There's certain things that you you simply cannot have control over. And when I started to grasp that concept, it made me it made me get a lot less stressed about situations than what I would normally be.

Daniel Kiernan  1:25:34

Serve or Return.

Robbie Koenig  1:25:36

Serve.

Daniel Kiernan  1:25:38

Roger or Rafa.

Robbie Koenig  1:25:40

Roger, South African. Come on, man. It's African connection there.

Daniel Kiernan  1:25:45

Your toughest ever opponent,

Robbie Koenig  1:25:48

A Swiss, in singles by the name of George Bestop, who tramped me I think maybe three or four straight weeks in a row back in the early days. And as a doubles player, when I was playing at the higher level and doubles probably the guy hated playing the most was Daniel Nesto,  he was a nightmare.

Daniel Kiernan  1:26:10

That's exactly who Eric pooter accent last week.

Robbie Koenig  1:26:13

Okay. Dennis,

Daniel Kiernan  1:26:18

but on George Postel you you had your validation the day that he beat Sampras and

Robbie Koenig  1:26:27

Forgot about that

Daniel Kiernan  1:26:30

That would have made you feel better if he can do it to some press. It's okay if he does it to me. Which player have You commentated on the most matches?

Robbie Koenig  1:26:47

will probably have to be one of the big three Yeah, I would have to say would be pretty close between Roger and Rafa Novak only started to come on the scene a little later. But yeah, I would go Roger, probably Roger. I'm going to throw in something here as well. A guy who is cost me the most number of hours that are never will get back is the Gilles Simon. And Andreas Seppi. I think she was retiring at the end of the year. So we got to give him an honorable mention. But we'll be doing matches late at night. He'd be serving for the match in Miami at 1130 in the evening, and we just knew that he was going to get broken. He was going to lose the set. But he's going to win seven, five in the third and we'd be there for another hour and a half.

Daniel Kiernan  1:27:38

My statistics they could be incorrect. Okay, say that it's Novak Djokovic.

Robbie Koenig  1:27:45

Wow. I mean, how do you even begin looking for those things?

Daniel Kiernan  1:27:49

It says 27 times. Now the you could tell me this is completely incorrect. And and you could easily prove this, and then I'll take it back. But my this is what my research says. Now the next question, okay? Is who? What was the hardest match for you to ever commentate on.

Robbie Koenig  1:28:13

You're never really I mean, a boring match is always a hard match to commentate on. Because you always want to try and make shit shine. And you don't want to be too critical of the player. Because you know what it's like when you're having a bad day. So I would say any crap match that you're commentating on, you get those on a weekly basis with a level it's just poor. It might be windy, both guys are playing rubbish. And I think it's probably a good time. Just to remind the listeners that you know, there's a lot of matches that are bang average throughout the course of a week. And every match is unbelievable. And is a highlight reel. So I think that would be the best way to answer that. Is that you know, just just a bad match and trying to get the balance right. I think that's the hardest thing. You don't want to be too critical of a player because you've been in their shoes, but it's very important as well then for your credibility. When the match is bare to say, Hey, listen, you know, you can't say Dan Kiernan's playing, he's playing some some good tennis when it's very clear to even you know, someone who doesn't watch a lot of tennis that what he's seeing on his screen is being average and how the hell can Robbie Koenig be trying to tell me that's good. So you have to be aware of your credibility in that moment, too. So we've got to find a nice constructive way to say why Dan is shit today and do it in the best possible manner and explain why rather than just criticizing say why that's the big thing. You have a number of unforced errors in the forehand look with the forehands landing when he's landing in the middle of the court when he does make it look a bit the missus up bring up the Hawkeye graphic sailor His misses on average are a meter same close to the line. So you're trying to back it up and give them some good information rather than just hammering a player into the dirt.

Daniel Kiernan  1:30:11

Do you think like, it's not so quick facts I'm about to share his story, but I commentated at the US Open. On Andy Murray against Feliciano Lopez 2012. And it was on Louie Armstrong and we know that Andy doesn't like Louis Armstrong court for a start. And he, you know, it was one of those matches where Andy walked out like a bear with a sore head, you know, you could see it from you know, they just from the, from the word go, he was he was, he was ready to knarl whoever whoever he knarl know that. And, actually, Feliciano, I don't know, if you were you were on that match, or if you remember the match, but Feliciano should have absolutely won that tennis match, My memory was there was like, a couple of tiebreaks third and fourth set that the sneaked, sneaked somehow, more from Feliciana was bad player than anything. And honestly, watching Andy, it was what like watching an eight year old, the way he was acting, it was just, and I was very inexperienced, having done this a lot of my life, and know Andy pretty well, as a player, you know, we used to play against each other. And I was so conscious of what Andy was going to think Have you heard what I was saying? And and it definitely, and that's, that would be some provided commentary and future I'd have to, you'd have to get used to. But I got to the point where I couldn't not say something exactly what you're saying. Because I was like, well, is behavior was just so bad. Is that something that comes into your mind? At all? And is the been a difficult moment on that? Or are you able to completely separate?

Robbie Koenig  1:31:59

No, I don't think I've ever had any major fall back from from somebody. I mean, you know, some of the players you know it, and they'll come up to you and go, I heard what you said about my forehand. I heard what you said, wasn't that bad was that you know, and when you've got your facts lined up, that's when you're in such a strong position. I think that's why your delivery is so important down. And I'll say to whatever I say to Sascha, Sascha, you know, you make 22 unforced errors on your forehand on the first set alone, whatever the match, but the first set, that's why I said it was shit. Okay, see what you mean. But it's 22 a lot? Well, on average, Anything under 10 is probably average 22 year three or four times worse than two or three times worse than anybody else. Do you want me to lower the bar for you? That's always my go to do want me to lower the bar. Do you want me to judge you by the lowest of standards? Or do you want me to judge you by the very highest of standards? What do you want? So you put the ball straight back in their court if something like that did happen, so if you want me to lower the bar no problem I can you know, maybe that's where you slot in. But if you want me to and I measure you up against one through five that's where I'm going to hold you accountable. What do you think of that? And there's there's really only one answer if they're serious about the game right?

Daniel Kiernan  1:33:29

Good, very good medical timeout or not?

Robbie Koenig  1:33:33

No, I would, I would definitely get rid of it. You've got to change events to sort yourself out massages, nine times out of 10 and ends up being a massage nothing more than that

Daniel Kiernan  1:33:44

Singles or doubles

Robbie Koenig  1:33:47

Wish I'd been a great singles player but the camaraderie and doubles is fantastic but singles first doubles was because I could still get to do what I loved. I just wasn't as good as doing it in singles as I wasn't does

Daniel Kiernan  1:34:03

five sets or three sets for the men if Grand Slams

Robbie Koenig  1:34:08

pregnant pause and he says five only just

Daniel Kiernan  1:34:13

how long is that gonna hang on for

Robbie Koenig  1:34:15

an Ironman schema so physical it's beyond a joke. It's beyond a joke a physical sport has become and I just I just wanted to for the longevity of it. For the longevity of careers when you've got a calendar that is so long, and those grueling matches they take tell you what you age in dog years when you play those kind of matches.

Daniel Kiernan  1:34:39

Less is more, you said earlier.

Robbie Koenig  1:34:41

Yeah, I mean, some of these three set matches that you get these days. The level they're gonna pay for three, three and a half hours. You know, when people go and watch a soccer match it last 90 minutes we don't complain that it hasn't. hasn't gone on for longer. Just about every sport has In a definitive time on, and again, we're wanting more and more absolutely love five setters. I do see the ultimate challenge in it. But you can't tell me after three hours, four hours of playing, which sometimes we get three sets that you're not proving that you're an incredible athlete. But there is certainly the old old guy on me that loves five sets

Daniel Kiernan  1:35:30

ATP cup or Davis Cup.

Robbie Koenig  1:35:33

I don't like Davis Cup in the format that it said. And I think the ATP cup has become a very expensive event to have. And I think we might be fine tuning it to going on, but we need a combined event. And I think that's what the ATP cup will morph into. Which I think is fantastic a combined event with men and woman I think it would be first price,

Daniel Kiernan  1:35:56

Radio or TV.

Robbie Koenig  1:35:58

Radio is the ultimate challenge. Radio is the ultimate challenge in broadcasting. As we discussed earlier, I think TV is certainly more glamorous. And if you're in front of the camera a lot than people get to get to know who you are. But you hit the nail on the head when we were discussing radio. You're talking about Jonathan O'Brien's ability to Describe a situation that's, that's properly difficult.

Daniel Kiernan  1:36:27

And who should our next guest be on control the controllables

Robbie Koenig  1:36:33

Jason Goodall spent the most time in the commentary box with Chase if it was somebody in my field, he springs to mind but it's tough to get him on these things, man. He's a recluse, stuff to get ahold of the guy, but he's got some some great stories. And he was a great guy to have alongside me for so long. I learnt a lot from him.

Daniel Kiernan  1:36:57

I'm gonna let you have a second one because part of the deal is that you get somebody in. So if you can't get Jason, who's the next one? I don't know anybody, Robbie, I've got a the only way I make this podcast work, I've got a I've got a wheel and deal my way through and get the get the next guests.

Robbie Koenig  1:37:17

And it's always great for the podcast if you're gonna have, you know, famous people on and well known people on. But when you called me up, you mentioned a mutual friend of ours and Ben Harron, who I think is one of the best developmental coaches in this country. And what he's doing and you know, just to have a discussion with him and alone on that's proper coaching, you asked me about coaching on the tour. I think it's very glamorous. But the real skill is developing players that that 10 to 18 years of age, you are the guy responsible for putting a lot in place. Then you would be right up there with one of the best development coaches. He's seen a lot more than most people in this country. And the variety that he's seen in the success he's had. You know, that's one of my favorite topics, then we could have we could chat for hours, just on, you know, how do you how to develop players, we know what's the right way to go about doing and I think he's had more experienced than most on the court day in day out. Jack Draper you know 10, 15 players, we could mention girls and boys.

Daniel Kiernan  1:38:27

Ben Ben, I completely agree with you. But he's episode 137 we'll have to send you that one because it was it was and Ben's Ben's also not a one to necessarily jump onto these you know and James Trotman the same you know, but I've managed to get them they get them out and and pick their brains a little bit and they were both brilliant in I've got a lot of admiration for for both of them in terms of the development that they've done with with many players over the years. But what I would love to do, and I'll maybe speak to Ben I'd love to get yourself and Ben on and have a big player development chat at some point you know, I think that would be a really cool conversation to have and I think I think people will take a lot from that so maybe that's the one that will look into it as well. But Robbie you're you're a star honestly coming on and and do what you've done loved having you keep up the great work and and all the best of luck as well. You know is sounds like he's on a nice path and you certainly got someone fantastic in his corner as well. So thanks a lot.

Robbie Koenig  1:39:39

Thanks, DK Rebecca to keep up the great work with the podcast and again, thanks so much for having me. As a guest on it.

Daniel Kiernan  1:39:48

I always end up with with a smile on my face when I listened to Robbie and I certainly did from that chat and listening back as well. And I'm sure Vicki that was one of the easier ones to edit. He gives so many Golden Nuggets?

Victoria Kiernan  1:40:01

Well, it was but you guys spoke for so long, it was really hard to crop anything out and shorten it. Because as I was listening, I was just thinking, Oh, that it's great. All this bits really good. Oh, what a great story. It really was a great chat that you had. But as you mentioned at the start, I mean, Robbie has been a player, a coach, a commentator, and for me, I thought he had such good advice, really helpful advice for tennis parents. I mean, obviously, we're on that path at the moment, we're trying to improve all the time, gets getting some things, right feels like we're getting most things wrong. So I was kind of making notes as he was chatting as a tennis dad, not a coach, what were your key takeaways?

Daniel Kiernan  1:40:41

I think the first thing for me is, is and I know there's a lot of tennis parents listen to this. The intensity of emotion is incredibly strong, you know, comes from within. And that's something that somebody like Robbie, who's been around the game for so many years, feels that, you know, he touched on Tracy Austin, the US Open, you know, Casper Ruuds father, you know, there's, there's, there's many in the past parents that have been tennis players, but it doesn't mean that you're immune from from those feelings. So I think the first thing I would say is the, the empathy I have towards tennis parents, and I think tennis coaches become better tennis coaches, the day they become parents, you know, and I think that's probably the first thing that I would I would take away, I'll use Robbie's three that I liked the three, I liked the three words he used, he said, team, you know, he likes and I agree with this, I think it's a lonely sport. So especially in your younger years, your formative years, try not to do it in a one on one way, you know, do it in a group setting. Yes, of course, have your private classes and have your individualized programs. But it's really important that you have your peer group to push you, you know, to bring you back into line, you know, to that teaches you so much and I think team sports do, and we can have that team sport, so that'd be the first thing. The second thing he said something and I link this with the second word he used is he always knew that there needs to be a time of pain in order to bring some success. And ultimately what he's saying there is discipline, you know, you have to have discipline through those times of pain, you know, nothing comes for free. And I think the understanding Rafa uses the word suffer, you have to suffer. So I think that's something that absolutely all tennis players, all tennis parents, all tennis coaches need to know, and people in life to do anything, well, you have to go through that period of pain. And then the last one, the importance of parental communication, you know, it is a team, everyone's going towards the same goal, you know, and, and it's so important that we all go along on that same journey, just the small amounts, just little, little bits every day, every couple of days, tennis coaches have with have with your parents, they're not after constant praise, but they just want to know how their how their little little Emma's do and how their little Johnny's doing, you know, as he is he is he alright, you know, he knows that some things are happening at home. And actually, is that transferring onto the tennis court, you know, in making sure that communication is strong, and that communication loop is strong. So I would say those three ways that he wrapped it up, I think were a really, really nice way and nice pieces of advice for anybody to take on board.

Victoria Kiernan  1:43:40

And on the topic of advice and parents, we get asked all the time about US college, the most frequent question being well, the main question being, is it the right option for my child? Is it the best move for them? And I think he both gave some really nice guidelines on that for parents and players.

Daniel Kiernan  1:43:59

And I think I'd like to say as well though, Vicki before that, it does depend on where the player is aiming to go What's the ambition, what's the intention? Now, if the ambition and the intention is to be a top professional tennis player, the guidelines we spoke about absolutely ring true, you know, and ultimately, unless you are winning futures events on a regular basis going deep into futures events on a regular basis, you are not quite at the level yet to be a professional tennis player. So So you are better off again, depending on your financial setup, and you know, if you can find the right university, you are you are you will tend to be better off going that route to develop until you are then ready to go in some people. Their ambition isn't to be a top professional tennis player, you know, and that's absolutely fine as well. And that's why I would just say, to everybody out there, have your eyes open to what it is that you want to achieve, you know, at least have a have a pretty strong picture of what you want to achieve, then that will also help with your decision making process as well. And as Robbie said, you know, there's there's college tennis players that are winning futures left, right and center. You know, camera nori was winning challenger events, ATP challenges, and he went back to college. So it is everyone does have their own personal journey on it. But I think it is nice to hear people that have seen it, done it, and now going through it with their own children, to take some of those criterias and keep it keep it realistic guys, you know, don't don't think that you're the outlier. Who can't win a tennis match in a in a in an ITF tournament, that all of a sudden, you're going to be top 100 within 12 months, it ain't gonna happen. It might happen in 678 years. But you've got to you've got to understand that there is a process along the way,

Victoria Kiernan  1:46:01

I always find these conversations really useful for us, for our children, and also all the players at the academy. Robbie just has so much experience and I really liked the suggestion about bringing Ben Harron in to talk about player development with Ben and Robbie, I think that would be an awesome episode, we're gonna have to see if we can make that happen.

Daniel Kiernan  1:46:01

Well, yeah, well, listeners, let us know, you know, if it's public demand, you know, then I'll get onto Robbie and Ben, I mean, I'll get on to Robbie and Ben, they, they for me, are brilliant tennis minds. And just lovely guys. So, you know, if I have an excuse to spend a couple of hours with with Robbie and Ben, then I would be absolutely delighted to do it. So reach out, let us know, you know, drop us a message. It's about time we heard from some of you as well, you know, we like this to be interactive, you know, this is your podcast. So make sure that you guys are engaging, you will see in the notes all of the different ways that you can get in touch with us. And we look forward to hearing some of your requests. But I can't go without Vicki without mentioning.

Victoria Kiernan  1:47:08

I know what hat you're going to mention

Daniel Kiernan  1:47:10

Just his ability with words.

Victoria Kiernan  1:47:13

That's the one thing I was thinking about, you know that often when I listen back to your chats, and I'm editing the episodes, I'll be driving in the car later that day, or a few days later. And there's usually one thing or a couple of things in particular that I am thinking about. And for this one, it was the 250 words, I said he went away and he writes down ways of describing amazing, exhilarating, fantastic, brilliant 250. I was like, I want that list.

Daniel Kiernan  1:47:43

It it's great. And I listen back to these podcasts, and I apologize to your listeners because my vocab has to get better. Too many times I pick up my gum saying that stupid word again, whatever it might be. So I'm completely with Robbie, but it takes me into it's the preparation. It's the professionalism in whatever you do. You know, and whatever you do, and I think I use the example of Roger Federer, you know, what comes out is Grace elegance. But what people don't see is what goes in. And what comes out when we hear Robbie in commentary is this ease of using words and this, this array of vocabulary that of describing and bringing things to life. But what goes in is hard work. And it's pretty much the same with anything that you ever see in life. You know, nothing comes easy. Nothing comes for free. And and I think Robbie's commentary, and his insight into his commentary was fantastic.

Victoria Kiernan  1:48:44

If you've got another word for Fantastic,

Daniel Kiernan  1:48:48

Was like a mongoose

Victoria Kiernan  1:48:51

Means dealing, you've got to come up with your own way. But yeah,

Daniel Kiernan  1:48:55

Brilliant, Robbie. And that certainly inspired me to I need to get reading a need to

Victoria Kiernan  1:49:00

Well, mine is the growth mindset, isn't it that we talk about so often, you know, he's looking at ways of improving himself still in a career that he's been in for a while now. And he like you said he's gone away. He's done the preparation. He's done the hard work to make himself as best as he can be for us watching.

Daniel Kiernan  1:49:18

Absolutely, well done, Robbie. And we're getting closer to 2023 Guys and 2022 coming to an end. And for us here at Control the Controllables we've as our 35th episode of 2022. We will be working hard over the next few days to try and bring some of our favorite moments of 2022. So watch out for that one. And then let's see what 2023 has for us. We have some great guests to start the year off. We've got Henry Patten and Julian Cash, who were the record breakers of the ATP challenger tour and their main draw in Australian Open we Got them coming to you. We've got Tamara Zidansek, who will be joining us to discuss her year as she moves on into also the Australian Open. And then Dave Miley, who is the current tennis director in Kazakhstan, someone who worked extremely high up at the ITF. Those are some of our guests that will be coming up early in 2023. And we've got loads more on our list. We've got you see my whatsapp list. It's it's red hot, with names in the tennis world. And we'll continue working hard to bring these amazing guests for you. But you guys stay safe. I hope you have a wonderful few days with your families before we move into 2023 But until next time, I'm Dan Kiernan and we are Control the Controllables