Australian Open 2023 Review

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Daniel Kiernan  00:09

Welcome to Episode 185 of Control the Controllables and coming to you a little bit later than normal is our Australian Open 2023 Review. And this is because my panel made such bad picks with their dark horses that they were embarrassed to come back on. But no joking aside, we've been on holiday myself and the family for the last couple of weeks. So we actually missed the finals of the event. We weren't able to watch it live but feeling very relaxed feeling ready to take on the year ahead, and I hope you are as well. But our panel we have the same panel as we had for the preview. So as Emily Webley Smith, top 200 WTA doubles player been on the tour now for almost 20 years you know brings in an incredible insight knowledge into the game and is still live on the tour us so we get that on the ground feel. And then 2012 men's doubles winner at Wimbledon, Freddie Nielsen, and Kia Vorster the current fitness coach to Liam Brody, worked with many players over the years. And I'm delighted to say we also have Robbie Koenig, the amazing South African commentator, you will recognize his voice if you watch tennis anywhere in the world. If you have watched the Netflix show, you will recognize this man's voice and he brings a great color to the show. And lastly, we have a little cameo from Sir Andy Murray's tennis coach, Mark Hilton. And we get 10 minutes of Mark talking about Andy's incredible Australian Open, and what we have to look forward to for Andy moving into 2023. Brilliant, listen, sit back, enjoy wherever you are in the world, our Australian Open review panel. So big welcome to Australian Open review panel. We are two weeks after the Australian Open is finished and I hold my hands up and apologize for that. But the family holiday was well worth it. And the first topic guys I'd love to jump into. We talked a lot about Netflix in the in the preview before the event and all of the Netflix stars flopped at the Australian Open. But we've managed to bring in the real star of Netflix in Robbie Koenig. And the question to you, Robbie, is this affected your career yet? Are you under decline as well as the Netflix curse struck yet?

Robbie Koenig  02:57

Oh, man, no. I'm not saying hopefully I'm not I'm, I'm the lone survivor of the Netflix series. I'm still going strong. DK but yeah, it's been amazing to see what's happened with all those people who have committed obviously additional time and you wonder how that plays into their psyche? You know, having these people really up close and personal and whether they're doing things differently, than what they would normally have done, you know, that's the question I asked myself because the cameras are there keeping a close eye on them.

Daniel Kiernan  03:31

And for you I mean, I watched the I watched the show and it was I joke about you being the star but you were absolutely prime you know you were in a Did you know Did you know that you were going to your voice was going to be on so much did that come as a shock to you as well?

Robbie Koenig  03:48

I think Yeah. First of all, it came as a shock. I haven't seen the Break Point docu-series just yet. But I just had a lot of feedback when I was in Aus that you know a lot of my I guess my my voice cracks were on the documentary and I remember doing a lot of Nick's matches at the AO last year. And obviously with him getting featured. I suspected there might be some of my comms on it but you never know how much gets put on it until it takes place. But you know, I feel like that's an honor. I do pride myself on trying to highlight big moments in matches and capture the right words to match the pictures and hopefully not stuff it up. But I'm glad you guys enjoyed it. It means it means the world to me when it comes from my peers. People like you or have other coaches and players come up to me and say you know you did a good job or you did a shit job. That's the feedback I value the most

Daniel Kiernan  04:43

It was you did a great job and you've got a show reel. If you ever are out of work you've got a perfect show reel now and guys to bring you in and Emily to bring you in first and over a couple of weeks on and the tennis world moves fast you know already Starting to look into the next events. But if we can take our mind back a couple of weeks, what are your general thoughts? How did the Australian Open leave you thinking at the end?

Emily Webley-Smith  05:11

First word, just Andy. I absolutely loved. And I watched as as much as I possibly could have his matches, and how amazing it was to see him wriggle his way into those matches that he did and, and get to where he did. But also I think, I was actually I was actually enthralled with the Sabalenka story as she kept she kept making it through and it was always that could she could she hold strong and would her serve hold strong like you questioned in the in the first one that we did. And I think when she won it, and her reaction, and also the level of the final, which I think sometimes in finals are a little disappointing after great semifinals, or great earlier rounds, but I actually think the women's final was standout for me and the quality, but also how close it was and what a good contest it was. And I actually really enjoyed watching I, I struggle, sometimes watching tennis, after playing so much sitting down for the entirety of matches. But this Australia, I think it really captured my attention.

Daniel Kiernan  06:20

And you mentioned there, Andy, and he certainly seemed to win week one, Freddie, and you know, week one, just promised so much. I think there was there was so many matches as Robbie, as you said there the highlight reel. There was so many highlights so many moments. Week two, I heard an interesting statistic that the Sabalenka, rybakina final was the first match and correct me if I'm wrong here, anybody but it was the first match that had a deciding set since the Monday of the second week. So we had these kind of like show stopping matches in week one. Then week two does seem to kind of happen matches not that many big matches until the women's final. But what was your takeaway for me from from the two weeks,

Freddie Nielsen  07:06

I was actually very underwhelmed. I don't remember the last time I was less enthusiastic about a slam. Obviously, from my point of view, being a day in and Danish Davis Cup captain, I was all in on Holger, but as soon as he was out, like, it wasn't really caught by any of the storylines. I'm not really seduced by the tennis that's played. I was a little bit more annoyed by some of the storylines. So actually, I was the like, it was one of the more insignificant slams in my time as a fan. So that was kind of my takeaways. Like I can barely remember any other results as well. It was just kind of like, oh, whatever, and then move on. I think also because of obviously the women's role was was was pretty open. But the minstrel was I mean, it was nowhere to lose all the way through. Right, wasn't it? And I was also a little bit. I mean, it is what it is. But me personally as a fan I get so I get bored with all the story about injury and not injury and look at battling through. I mean, let's be honest, we could all see that he was playing tennis at an outrageous level. And yeah, he probably was injured. I'm not refuting that. But if you can play tennis at that level, it's probably not hindering you that much. So it's not like it needed that much attention in my opinion. So I was a little bit actually lifted a little bit like it was it was one of the more disappointing fan experiences my opinion.

Daniel Kiernan  08:38

Anybody want to counter that?

08:39

Well, I'll tell you just being on the ground certain things. And I hear exactly where he's coming from. Certainly from his perspective. I was I was big on Holger I did a couple of his matches as well Freddie actually one of the one of the matches of the tournament for me was this match against Rublev. And the way that match finished was I haven't seen that too often. I made reference to that. I think it was Becker Lendl final at the Masters when I saw that.

Daniel Kiernan  09:08

Did he tighten, did he get a little tight, Holger in the fifth? And I guess that experience will maybe stand him in good stead

Freddie Nielsen  09:15

Maybe a little bit, but I don't think he played a great match in total. And he still almost beat Rublev and he had some problems. He fell in the match before and wasn't completely baited. I mean, there are certain certain things about I think also one as I remember 6-2 to 6-3 Rublev hit a winner that was like half an inch in or something like that. So small margins. And I think you did really well and was unbelievably unlucky not to come away as a winner. But keep on Robbie.

09:42

Yeah, I know. There were so many ironies in that match because he looked down and out. You look like he was struggling then he's going for broke. That's what gets them back into the match and then the tie break comes around he gets passive again suddenly when there's the opportunity for him to win in a search for the match got passive which is the It's this is where the sport, it really does amaze me how how the thinking is because if we sitting and watching from the sidelines, it's so obvious how he has to play, just keep playing aggressively. Yet in that moment. It's fascinating how players just go into their shell. So I hope for his sake, it's a huge learning experience. But I just wanted to get back to the initial point we're making about being on the ground will tell you what was a nice story for me. Was the Americans doing well, and certainly from a television, tennis world perspective, if you have Americans doing well, I think it's healthy for the sport, you know, the Europeans have dominated for so long now. And there's a nice bunch of young Americans, that kind of all, riding this wave of American success. And I think for me, that was one of the nice underlying stories to this major. Because I think it's from a commercial standpoint, it's always good if you can have Americans doing well, so I guess that was the story away from the big guys. We always have the attention on Federer, Djokovic Nadal, Andy to a smaller extent as well this year. But the American story for me was a good one, and that you felt it on the ground, he was a lot of attention around them. Obviously, they didn't go all the way and win it, you know, Tommy Paul, going deep certainly helped that market. So I just wanted to touch on that to maybe add to what Freddie was saying.

Daniel Kiernan  11:27

And that's I think, on the Robbie, I think that's on the men's and the women's side, isn't it? You know, we we spoke before the US Open last year. And all we talked about actually was the Americans are coming, the Americans are coming. It's going to be we actually maybe naively didn't mention it before the Australian Open. But I think, you know, I picked out Korda we spoke about Korda as a dark horse. You know, he's certainly a Grand Slam winner in the in the making, you know, Pegula, I think is a story as well in itself. You know, and I don't know if you guys have seen or read the read the letter that she's the open letter that she's written in the last couple of days. You know, she's undergoing a lot of challenging times with with the illness of her mum, that she's been very open about, and maybe Freddy, our our winner would have come in, you know, maybe that we can hang our hat on the fact that she's gone through family difficulties, why she didn't quite make it through. And I think it's a great point, Robbie, but at this point, I want to bring in you Vossie, because Freddie's touched on it, you know, Novak Djokovic, which the story the nonstory, whatever you want to call it you know, I think I remember Freddy saying Novak is going to win it every single day and two times on a Sunday. You know, we we felt we felt pretty strong that Novak was was the man for the title. Craig Tiley has since come out which I found a little bit surprising and said that the Djokovic was carrying I believe a three centimeter tear in his hamstring them to which the tennis player who doesn't have access to 24 hours doctors and physios are saying well, you can't play tennis with a with a tear in your hamstring. So sort of bring you in from the physical side VossieIs it possible to play tennis with such a tear? And what's your take on the the Djokovic story or non story as Freddie would put it?

Kieron Vorster  13:19

Yeah. Hey guys, so so for me when you cross the white line and you lace up your shoes, you you in my mind you're ready to compete and give 100% So I would I don't believe in that. That the injury was as severe but if you have a three centimeter tear that's a grade two hamstring and it is pretty much impossible to play on a three centimeter tear. And further to that. I saw a couple tweets from Enzo Couchard who basically said you know the French doctors had advised him that if he ever pull a muscle you don't stretch which is correct because you've got the micro tears and you basically need those to heal and if you're stretching you're just you're actually just breaking them even further and he said that in a Novak was stretching a ton you know in between in between his matches which which contra-indicates any medical advice that you would give somebody so I don't I don't know what was going on but clearly for me he was he was good enough to compete and so when you know when you loses the match it's like slightly into this bullshit if you if you're good enough to cross the line that the injury is not going to hinder your your company being been able to compete and when I've worked with players, you know, wind used to have a duck, duck to strange a lot and I used to say to Wayne, if you're ready if it's if it's if it's going to hinder you pull out. If you can't if you feel you cannot complete 100% pull out. I said because you So plan your mind that if you've crossed that white line and you're playing, you lose, there's no excuses.

Daniel Kiernan  15:06

Djokovic Vossie, just to before you get to the second point, with jurkovich, it seems to be the other way, from a mentality standpoint, that it almost plays with the opponent's mind, rather than playing on his mind.

Kieron Vorster  15:20

Yeah, but that's the same. That's that's the same with with with I think with everybody. Yes. It's, it's a mind game. And so the opponents are, are obviously thinking, well, I need to change my A game of my natural game that comes to me when I'm playing. Because Because of this, maybe I need a drop shot and more, get them coming forward more, and takes them out of their comfort zone. But if the players just focus on their A game, and focus on their best and not compare themselves to the best, they they give themselves the best chance. So yeah, he probably played mind games with with everybody that played him. And he played on that. That, you know, obviously no, no, getting away from the fact that, you know, to win the Australian Open is no mean feat. And, you know, I'm not taking away from the fact that, you know, he played unbelievable and won it, but I would play down the severity of the injury. And it's, it's, I'm surprised that Craig Tiley is a tournament director, and not not a medic. And he's come out and said that versus any of his medical team actually coming out and saying, What was you know, what, what was it? Was it a slight strain? Was it a strain? Because it seemed like, the more matches he played, the less taping you had on his leg? And then, you know, he had Kinesio tape on in the final and not banded up. So it's the whole thing is a bit bizarre to me. And second to that, I think there was a little bit of favoritism towards Novak you know, I can't get over the fact that, you know, the whole idea of playing a Grand Slam is each player should be challenged in different conditions, different times, challenging yourself on quick turnarounds, if so, be it you know, like, you know, you know, and you're married to me is the current day Braveheart. In terms of what he had to endure that Novak every single match was not before 7pm. So he had a perfect routine of how, you know, when he finished the next day, how you recover, then the following day, how will you warm up for a seven o'clock match? So his body clock was was in was synced to every single match. And I find that I find that unfair on everybody else that, you know, had to endure conditions in the day shadows of the court. He came out, you know, probably, you know, he twice same conditions every single time. And, you know, and yeah, you know, as I say I had a good routine when you look at Andy, you know, when you play Cochran artists finishing at that ridiculous time four in the morning, and then you know, hobbling in, you know, late that afternoon, I spoke with Matt little, you know, about what his recovery strategy was. And the most important thing for him was to sleep Sleep, sleep sleep, because obviously, when you're sleeping, your body's repairing, there's neuro-repair this muscular repair, the psychological repair, so he was sleeping as much as he could between finishing at 4am in the morning to when he you know, had to come out, you know, again, and play Batista. So I find it extremely unfair, you know, and also, to add to Fred's point, and I know, this is congestion with a calendar that from Europe, from Europe, or from everywhere around the world, but let's talk about Europe, that's an 11 hour time change. So players players going down there, it's going to take them 11 days to acclimatized to the conditions, and then then try and develop so these players are going going in there, whether they like it or not, they're going in undercooked they're going in not acclimatized and that's that will add to the first round loss the second round losses of these players in the first in the first week of the event. So yeah, that's that's basically my take

Daniel Kiernan  18:56

On Djokovic, and I'm not talking about his biggest fan. However, I am tennis biggest fan, you know, and, and ultimately, jockey which is now a 22 time Grand Slam champion, you know, and, and I would like to also just turn our attention to his brilliance. Because I think sometimes when he when he wins the Grand Slam, we're oh Djokovic has won, boring Grand Slam, you know, but, and to bring this to you, Robbie, because you mentioned Tommy Paul, and I love Tommy Paul, I think he's great for the game actually, I think a lot of those Americans they've got that you know, Tiafoe I think they've got a nice they've got a nice energy about them that I think could open up a different market commercially, as well. And and he said, My plan going into that match was to serve and volley and play drop shots. And I didn't serve volley once and I didn't play one drop shot. You know, you think well how the hell is that possible for a grand slam semifinalist, but I think that is the mark of the brilliance of Novak Djokovic that he was unable to implement The game plan that he wanted to because of the quality that Djokovic is bringing to the court. Robbie,

20:04

I think you've encapsulated it beautifully right? In a nutshell, I sat courtside for a few of his matches in Adelaide. And at the end, I just could not believe the length that this guy was able to keep on his shots both when attacking. And in defense, it's ridiculous. You know, the guy's hitting the ball within, within a foot of the baseline, sometimes half a foot of the baseline, and you look at it, and you think he is totally in control. Whereas when other players do it, because the depth varies quite a bit, whenever it's close to the sideline, or the base that I'm thinking all do you actually mean to hit it that close. Whereas when Novak plays, you always think he's got total control of the ball, even within an inch or two of the line. And it makes it nearly impossible to attack the guy. And you know, you have to start with this incredibly good serve. And that's where somebody like Kyrgios can give him a hard time because he can at least stay with them to three or four or five or, and in those tight moments. When Novak is under a bit more stress, he can hurt him. But there's very few players that can do that DK and for me, that's, that's what's so amazing. And then you couple that with this guy's mental fortitude, and mentally for me, he's in a different galaxy to everybody else on the tour. And I think he has been for a long time. And and I really enjoyed Vossies pickup about the mind games or whatever else was going on with the injury because I laugh at all the media attention that it gets focus on your own effing game, right. Why are you so worried about what's going on on the other side of the court, in fact, you should be happy that he's injured? I never understand this obsession with what's going on with your opponents. Right? I've got to do whatever I can to beat the guy if I'm getting distracted by what's happening on the other side of the court. That is my mental inadequacies. You know, being played out if I've got to complain about it in the press afterwards, like Koco did, dude, come on, man, get mentally tough. So I've got no sympathy for media, or people having a bitch and moan about Djokovic's injury. It's like, focus on your own stuff. Absolutely. Yeah. So

Kieron Vorster  22:24

so just to add on that. There's a guy called Todd conqueror who's written a book saying, leave for God's sake. And he when when I was at Baylor, he came and did a lot of talks to the team and he worked with Clemson football is very renowned in the States. And there's a there's a there's a picture of, of chocolate close and Phelps doing butterfly and then it's like 10 meters out and Chatlin close in his butterfly stroke, looks over to Phelps. And that was the difference of a 100th of a second of him winning gold and, and losing. And the point he was trying to say and just to reiterate it is if if the player the playing Djokovic which focuses on his best and not comparing himself to the best and believes his best will be good enough to win based on the circumstances that Djokovic's which is presenting on the court, then there'll be fine. But yeah, so so they would definitely mind games and they were they were they were focused on the best and not focusing on their best.

Freddie Nielsen  23:28

And if I can add a point to that, for example, I did I don't necessarily think that Novak is doing anything to get in the heads of opponents. Excuse me. We had a Danish athlete who once went into the Olympics being a massive favorite and he was struggling with the pressure so he basically invented a an injury to ease the pressure for himself so you can compete a little more under the oh I'm hurt anyway. I'm not saying that it Novak faked an injury so don't get that but sometimes it can be nice to kind of instead of taking on that entire pressure on yourself you can kind of have an outlet to to give yourself some peace of mind and some some some some calmness when you go in and maybe it helped Novak in that way too. Because yeah, there's the injury. There's a great tear, okay, it surprises me a lot with that Craig comes out isn't that kind of stuff medical stuff isn't that confidential it must have been coordinated with Novak if he says it in public. And then at the same time, like Robbie says, focus on yourself because there's the eye test. I mean, we maybe the scan shows a three centimeter tear. I see an unbelievable athlete who is grinding from side to side not not missing a ball so there's a few different aspects to it as well. I think

Daniel Kiernan  24:44

there is and I think they're all great points and I think I think we see it as well with we see it with all athletes don't we you know, and we jump on Novak Rafa was at last year French Open they said he had a tear in his in his stomach, you know, but we hold drop around a little bit different esteem than we do on Novak. And I think it is something that we see, we see at all levels, we see it in juniors, we see, you know, the immense pressure that these players are under is hard for us to imagine, you know, and, you know, there has to be an outlet somewhere. And, and as I mentioned Rafa, and I want to bring you in here, Emily, because I had a thought through the Australian Open. And I know it's relatively short term, but I've had a little look this morning. And in his last eight matches, he's two and six. And in those eight matches that he's played, those eight matches have been played since his great friend, and for Roger Federer retired. So my question to you, Emily, is did Rafael Nadal die as a tennis player the day that Roger Federer retired? Ah, that's

Emily Webley-Smith  25:54

That's a good question. I mean, I think when you look at it overall, with Rafa and his last year and everything else, and I know that we all can kind of think in our heads whether someone's injured or whether it's not, I think none of us actually know what's going on, behind the scenes with someone and I think you could see on Rafa's team, the how much they felt for him and what perhaps he'd been through with trying to stay healthy. When you saw his wife's reaction when he got her again. And I do wonder, I mean, I think time is running out in terms of his body and more so with the way that he plays related to his body. But also, I think, I think there's bound to be an element when people start retiring of his age and of his era around him where he, he feels that and he knows that his time is, is numbered in the sport. But I think it gets harder. Definitely as you get older, to, to deal with the body doesn't recover as quickly. You know, all the other things that we know about older athletes, you can you can handle pain longer. But you also know when it's more serious than in order for you not to be able to compete. And I think you start to know your body better, and I think Rafa, I mean, it was pretty clear, when it when he looks up, and I think what we said on the previous podcast, I think, maybe the French this year, I mean, you never know there might be a complete rejuvenation, and with all the best doctors and the best training in the world refer might be reborn, but I think time is limited. And it's it's a real shame. Because I mean, I personally, I'm a big Rafa fan. And I'd love love to see him play for a few more years at least.

Daniel Kiernan  27:47

But Robbie to bring you in on this. And I know, it's quite an extreme word to say that someone's died. And I'm not saying he's died. But if we go back to that in London, you know, all of us on our TV screens, I believe you were you were there. Robbie, I think you were you were commentating on the event. But it we all sat there, that wasn't just a motion that was like, That was deep, like it was it was really strong. And it was that it was that feeling and just seeing how Rafa was, as he sat next to Roger, it's it did feel like a part of him. And I think he's even come out since and said, You know, it's definitely has affected him because almost what is tennis without Roger next to me, you know, and it just feels like maybe a little bit has, has died a little bit of the desire's maybe maybe gone I don't know what your take is on the ground.

28:42

Okay, I'll ask this question to the rest of the panel as well, because it's a great discussion and how much of that dying inside of an adult is related to the fact that he had such a good record against Roger. And, you know, he didn't feel as threatened by Roger as what he has felt by Novak. So it was a lovely cozy matchup for him if I can call it that, because he got more W's but now you know, since 2013 Novak has been a horrible matchup not only on a hard court, but you know, and on everything else on clays become a lot more problematic. So you can almost understand why he's, he's disappointed. He's down at the guy that he said a good record is retired and now I've got to put up with this damn guy who has been kicking my ass for the last couple of years and I don't like it. So, you know, I asked myself how much of that plays into the psyche of Nadal. And it's only going to get more tougher because Djokovic is still as fit as he's ever been. And he is more motivated than ever to put these guys in the rearview mirror and put them far in your rear view mirror Freddie what do you think?

Freddie Nielsen  30:03

I think that you're onto something I think that maybe it became real for Rafa when Raja stopped and he's like okay might be my time soon my body's aching and like you said nobody is basically on track for what 28 slams 30 slams and I think yeah, I think he is putting his body through so much to compete with Novak and he's tearing himself apart and he realizes that that he's not going to be able to compete at the end of the career because Novak is just kind of keep pounding away. So I think you're onto something there definitely. For me, maybe it was just kind of sometimes you need a moment like that to realize that the end is near you kind of know what at the at the back of your head and and Rafa probably knew somewhere deep down that it's that it's coming to an end but then when Roger is there and all the emotion comes out, I think it's inevitable that he starts thinking about themselves and realizes that he might be coming to an end soon and might not be the one ending with the most slams because I think if one of them, Roger Rafa, maybe Novak had 20 slams, and the second most had 15 or something or retired, they would retire. I think they keep going for this unbelievable insatiable desire to have the most lambs

Daniel Kiernan  31:28

And Vossie I can see you chomping at the bits in when he's when is kKierno gonna bring bring Sabalenka up you know, you got you wanna you want to be able to, you know, your moment of glory. But just before I move over to the women's event, which I absolutely will. i You said it again, Emily earlier and Vossie. You said it again. I I follow you all on Twitter to pick up your tweets so I can bring them into these podcasts. And I absolutely loved what you what you wrote, Emily, and it's exactly right. And you can you can visualize it. You know how Andy Murray how he wriggles into matches. And you use the word Braveheart, Vossie, and it was just incredible. And we go back to that weekend. I'm with you Friday. I think it was underwhelming Aussie Open in general. But I think Week One was quite spectacular, because of Andy Murray. And maybe that's the British thing. Maybe that's our personal thing with Andy. But I think if we got berrettini I mean, berrettini was one of the serious favourites to win the event. You know, kokkinakis was hot the way that he won those matches. So tell the listeners, what do you mean by by wriggling into the matches Emily give us give us a little bit more depth to that.

Emily Webley-Smith  32:45

I mean, he was getting whacked. He was getting whacked. He was getting outplayed, he was a million miles away from the level that we've seen him produce. And yet with that, whatever he was down in each time, he just, he just find little ways and little weaknesses and backs himself to stay with it and keep making it as difficult as possible. Even if he's slightly under the level that he's wanting to produce. Or even if he's he's creating chances and not quite taking them. Knowing that at some point, he will keep getting another chance that he will take and that will give him an opportunity to to fight and to get back to get back on the score line basis into the match. But you can almost see it change. And you can almost see him change in one or two moments when you just think even if the whole world believed that Andy couldn't win that match, and he still believes that he can. And I think it's I think it's absolutely incredible. I mean, the Verity any match, okay. I mean, I wonder if he's practiced a whole load of midcourt. backends, running for terrible drop shots like he did on the match point that he missed since then, because, I mean, he had it he literally had the match right there. But for me, the Kokkinakis match was phenomenal. And I lost my voice shouting at the television where I was so excited for Andy but how good is he and that fight and and all the tactical, all the tactical variation and everything that he does to to run and fight and keep himself in with a chance and then being able to turn that around. I just think it's absolutely unbelievable. And I think he deserves so much respect for for the way that he's able to do that. And as each match went on, I think he felt that he can't do it again. He can't do it again. And he just he just keeps proving himself time and time again that he's not done yet.

34:52

Robbie. Do you remember Emily when Kokkinakis was suing for the match? And I remember distinctly because I was just about to go to bed in the match was done and dusted. 5-3 third set. Everything's going perfectly according to plan. And he gets the time violation. Kokkinakis loses it for no reason whatsoever

Emily Webley-Smith  35:16

Completely, you're like, why is he Why is he going so crazy when he's totally in charge of the match?

35:21

It's just a warning system. You're not losing a first serve. You're not losing a point umpire's, just saying you're taking a little too long, right. And in that moment, you talk about waiting for the opportunity to jam your foot in the door to wriggle in. That was it for me. Yeah.

Daniel Kiernan  35:39

That's a reflection, though, isn't it of how Kokkinakis felt at that time? You know, yeah. And

Emily Webley-Smith  35:45

also, I think with Andy that, that his natural competitive instinct and his match player mentality, it wouldn't matter if Andy was playing tiddlywinks or something, he would literally find a way to compete, where he feels it from the opponent, he felt that energy, I think, from kokkinakis, he knew it, he knew it, you could see it in his body language, you could see it in slightly more intense about the way what he was doing. And it was just whether he could he could hold that long enough to then to then, you know, equal with that set, and then and then come back into the match. But I think you're right, I think you're right, Robbie, I think you could see it. And you're like, why on earth? Is he edgy? At this at this time. And it's tennis at its best, because it's obviously it's never done until it's done with the score line.

Daniel Kiernan  36:34

And why I love us talking about Andy and why you know, people that are listening to these podcasts, we have a lot of tennis players, a lot of tennis parents, tennis coaches. He just loves it. You know, you want to know you want to know what it takes. Sometimes it's like, just this absolute obsession, love of the sport. And I love what he said, as he said, you know, you guys see me as this grumpy guy who's shouting? And he said, that's when I'm at my happiest. You know, and that just that that raw love of competition, that I don't think many people in the world can probably understand. Because I think that's the uniqueness of an Andy Murray, you know, and obviously, there's other players that have it. But it is incredible. But now is a great time as well for me to bring in Mark Hilton, Andy Murray's coach to hear a little bit more about that as well. So hello, it's great. Great to have you join the panel. And first of all, how are you doing?

Mark Hilton  37:37

Very well. Thanks. How are you?

Daniel Kiernan  37:39

Very well, just talking, talking to the panel here. And we all agree that sir Andy Murray won the first week of Australian Open you know, it was talked about it being a bit of an underwhelming Australian Open once the second week started, but I think he was the the name on everyone's lips about the first week and, you know, as his coach working strongly in his corner, what is it that he did because you know, bionic man, you know, as Vossie said, you know, Braveheart, you know, to get himself into into that shape, to be able to go back to back five set matches and still have something in the tank to come out against Batista. Maybe it was one step too far. Is that something that he changed how he worked in preseason? You know, how did he set himself up for that?

Mark Hilton  38:32

Yeah, I mean, certainly the biggest positives come out of that within the fact of, of winning big matches to get on the biggest stage, which is, which is obviously done so much of in the past was was How is his body reacted how he felt through the tournament, because, you know, the back end of last year, that was certainly a priority. You know, he, he publicly stressed is the importance of that, not feeling not feeling positive on the court in terms of his physicality. So going into preseason there was there was a huge emphasis on on making some gains there. In a slightly different fashion, I want to say the process that was taken was, was very different to even ways he'd gone about it before. A lot of data involved in terms of what areas of his S&C needed addressing whether it was his endurance, whether his ability to maintain power, whether it was his concerns around cramping, and which he experienced, certainly put about half a dozen times in the six months of the year. So there was a very focused approach, but ultimately, it was it was that bedrock of hard work, which has always sort of fallen back on in the past, which is which, first of all, delivered, delivered the work over the preseason, but also helped build the confidence going into the start of the year.

Daniel Kiernan  39:55

And how does, you know when we sit there and I think anybody anybody that's listening to this right now can adhere to this. Andy gives us a heart attack every time we watch him you know, he's is absolute box office you know every match you know in those positions that come back that he has now now I believe he's the the all time come back King five sets as someone who's in his corner, you know how is it for you you know what watching that how do you how do you deal with the nerves and the ebbs and the flows of that

40:32

was quite incredible. I mean, the the match against Kokkinakis You go through different phases don't win those matches, because being two sets down the the inevitable thoughts, it's too far this, given historically, especially, especially recently issues with his body back in the Berrettini, sort of best part of five hour match, if you think it's too much, but you kind of underestimate sort of greatness in a way, don't you and, you know, did incredibly well to come back. And as that much progress the second round, you kind of felt like, probably after the third set, if he could, if he could start the fourt set in a decent manner and stay with stay with Thanasi, then he was going to give himself an opportunity. And you could feel the groundswell of belief. And the support that you've got, obviously, even though he's playing against Australian, the atmosphere in the crowd was was amazing. And and would have helped influence the way he was. You know, I don't think we can lose sight of the fact that he was very close to being out in the first round, right? I mean, with berrettini, having an opportunity and much point, dumping a relatively straightforward backhand, things could have looked very differently. But as we know, this is this is the game we play. And, you know, the reality is he capitalized on that opportunity had and played some of his best tennis in the biggest moments, which again, for him, I think is such a big thing, because he's going through a period of let's, let's be honest, you're not winning many big, big matches on big stages like he used to. So I really think it's a fantastic start for him to, to not only give him more belief going into the rest of this year and his physicality, but in his game, playing his best tennis when it matters, winning, winning the biggest points, and I really feel like he's in a position now where he will be ready to continue that.

Daniel Kiernan  41:31

And Emily was just saying that, you know, and she tweeted about this during the match, nobody, nobody wiggles into matches, like Andy Murray and and Robbie then rightly picked up that a two sets the love five, three Kokkinakis serving for the match. He got annoyed with the umpire over there was a time violation. And and that almost gave Andy the perfect space to start his wiggle into the match. You know, have you ever seen anyone that finds their way into matches? Like Andy does? And how does he do it?

43:06

Yeah, that's a really good point by Robbie because so many things happen in it over the course of that period of the match here, where they over the course of five hours or however long they were on call you do you do forget things. And that was certainly a moment which which made Andy turn the screw a little bit, you can say he has developed an unbelievable habit of hanging around. And often I think when you see him, potentially, in a moment of stress, discomfort is kind of when he's at his most dangerous as well. Because he sometimes needs a bit of that. To sort of fire him up to put him in a position where he can turn matches and as you say, he's got that record now. It's another record to be proud of for him is a sensational athlete is a sensational competitor. And then certainly one of the best that's been

Daniel Kiernan  44:05

and as you mentioned there before hilts. It's got to set him up. Well now for 2023. You know, the good, I think we all we all feel all of Andy's emotions, you know, we're all massive supporters. We all know where we were when he when he's first Wimbledon, we all can can relate to him and almost got sort of certain landmarks as we go through his go through his career with him. And it did feel towards the end of last year that he was suffering, you know, he was he was suffering mentally he was suffering a bit physically, you know, you could see the emotional pain that he was going through. Whereas even though he lost in the third round, it feels like No, no, he's he's back, you know, and he's, he's in a position now where he can win those big matches. berrettini was one of the absolute favourites to win that event, you know, and to take him out the way that he did. The crowd favorite in Kokkinakis is playing the way that he was, you know, now he puts himself in a position where 2023 is an exciting place for Andy Murray to be.

45:09

Yeah, exactly that. And I think, as I said earlier, it comes back to some of the bedrocks for him, which are the foundation, which is always played in, throughout his career. And there's no doubt he stripped it back at the end of last year and said, Okay, what what is going to help me regain that confidence regain that belief, find my level, which he still believes he has. And it was making a plan. non negotiable, this, this is what we're doing over this period of time. This is the work that went in, and then just going through the routine of doing it day in day out and thrives on that and thrives on the routine thrives on the on the almost the monotonous of just repeating as we see it, not only with this tennis, but we're work he puts in and he made a case for that over the six weeks or six week period from when he stopped competing at the end of last year to to lay that foundation again. And I think it really, you go into the start of the year, there's always it's not easy when you haven't competed for the best part of eight weeks, he didn't play a bad match in Adelaide played against a guy who was in red hot form in Korda, which was a tough draw. He could have come unstuck in Australia. But as I said, it wasn't just coming through the match against Berrettini. It was the way his body responded. And I know he was suffering against Bautista that anyone would have. But I think even on reflection, he was happy with how his how his body felt. And considering where he was, you know, he was moving very well throughout that time and on the back of all those hours on the court. And, and, you know, certainly his confidence moving forwards into this year. Yes, there's gonna be talk to us yesterday in a position ranking wise, where he's come up against the best players at the very start of the week. But I know that not many players will want to see their name against Andy at the moment. And now you hope you can carry some of that momentum, obviously into this next year, which has come out.

Daniel Kiernan  47:06

And lastly, before you go Hilts, because I know you've just managed to grab a little space to join us. What does success look like for Andy Murray in 2023?

47:15

Well, I would say that you will always have the ambition to be going deeper in slams. For someone who's achieved what what he has achieved, people always set the bar as high as he possibly can. And that will be at the back end of the biggest tournaments that will be winning winning matches consistently throughout the tour, adding to his tally of tournament wins staying healthy, because if he does that, I think he gives himself a great chance. So they're the kind of main main points.

Daniel Kiernan  47:43

Well, good luck to Team Murray 2023. It's, it's great for you to join us and we'll get back get back to the panel now. Hilts, we'll see you out there and Indian Wells in a couple of weeks. Thanks. Cheers. But Vossie. It's it's your time. It's your the floor. The floor is yours. You know, we we read it ridiculed you. Sabalenka can't win a Grand Slam. She chokes she loses a serve. She doesn't have it in in her. But you use you are pretty sure you told us you'd seen a training in Dubai and preseason. You told us that she was ready. And she certainly was well done to Sabalenka and well done to you on picking the Women's Champion.

Kieron Vorster  48:28

Yeah, I mean, it was lovely to see you know, very close up, you know, and she was working harder to serve. I you know, obviously it stood in practice. I didn't see it as an issue. You know, there were a couple of wobbles in the Australian Open final. She served I think it was seven doubles over the three sets but probably for her is very, very good. But I think you know, on the whole she she held her composure and you know, playing Rybakina is not easy, though. Both serving pretty big in the final. And yeah, it's just nice to see that you back a racehorse and you get a winner.

Robbie Koenig  49:05

What do they say every now and then a blind squirrel finds that not Waze.

Kieron Vorster  49:11

Say listen if you back the same resource time and time again, there's a chance that's gonna come through Well, my other race horse that I was always trying to back was on Java and then since I stopped backing he started doing well so maybe I'm a good omen.

Daniel Kiernan  49:29

This hasn't come through for me yet so you know, maybe we need to we need to stick to that and McNally certainly not come through for Freddie but

Kieron Vorster  49:37

at least we back into a place that are actually playing the tournament

Emily Webley-Smith  49:46

Yeah, I I've got nothing to say on that whatsoever. If not give it if Noskova wins the WTA title or a slam in the next three years, then I'm gonna just I'm just gonna sit there and smile. We agreed.

Freddie Nielsen  50:01

I will say one thing with these calls. They were rough two weeks, because my wife who has very little background in tennis, she actually called a better Dark Horse than I did. She had through vetova. And to be able to go down not only on the podcast, but in the, in the household with a with a with a girl who used to hit more balls into the Hudson River when we played in New York than she did in the court. That was rough. I gotta I gotta give her some credit, though. She is that was that was that was a decent cola. I might take her at her advice before the next previews.

Daniel Kiernan  50:39

Or we might just bring her on instead of you Freddie for the French. To bring it back the sabalenka Robbie, I found this really interesting. And actually, I have I have this discussion a lot with with a player that I work with Lloyd Glasspool who is completely against sports psychologists like I'm not saying anything that he wouldn't say said it on the podcast here. Absolutely doesn't believe in sports. Psychologists don't believe in it, you know, don't need it. Whereas actually what he what he doesn't quite understand as he's when he when you hear Lloyd speaking about tennis, he's got a lot of good, good tools in place over the years working with tennis coaches, who have got sports psychology background, but I thought it was really interesting that Sabalenka Just, you know, came out and said, I got rid of the sports psychologist, psychologists, I was trying everything I was trying to sort everything out. And it's a bit like that golf swing, isn't it? You know, when you're trying to do every little last little bit of your golf swing. Whereas when you just stand and just turn and just give it a whack? It often it often goes a little bit better. So no sports psychologist led to winning a Grand Slam. It's not quite as simple as that, I'm sure. But what's your take on that Robbie?

51:55

Well, you've highlighted one of the most important things I've written next is Sabalenka has named me a sports psychologist. But she would you said she tried for a while. But for me, the ultimate decision was to take ownership herself. So you've seen the same press conference as me. And she said that was the differentiator, she said, I'd heard all the information. But at the end of the day, it was down to me, me alone to control their thought process, under pressure on my syrup. And I always think when when any sports man or woman can take ownership and not play the blame game every time something doesn't quite go their way. They're on the right path. And they're on the right path in a big way. So in many ways, I'm not surprised that she got the result that she did, when I hear her speak like that. But let me tell you what to take that step to take complete ownership of your game and any problems that you have, I cannot tell you how much respect I've got for an athlete because all of us are in the tennis circles. And we know how often players are so quick to blame the coach or the management or the parents or somebody else, rather than take ownership of their own results and no excuses. I loved it. I absolutely thought that was such a powerful message that she sent out especially to younger players.

Kieron Vorster  53:17

I echo echo your points 100% Daley Thompson is a good mate of mine. And I spent a lot of time with him. And you know, when when I was working with Tim, we did a lot of training together. So and I spoke to Daley about psychology, and he's, you know, arguably one of the best athletes ever to come out of Great Britain over the last, you know, 100 years, and he was he was unbeaten for I think it was 10 years as a decathlete. And he doesn't believe in psychology. And the reason he, how he backed it up was you take ownership of what you're doing and take accountability and responsibility. So you've got to make sure that are you eating? Well? Are you sleeping? Well? Are you training? Well? Are you dotting the i's crossing the t's? And if you and I guarantee that most most people are going to need a psychologist, they haven't actually reviewed their accountability of themselves and actually looked at, you know, am I doing everything right? And then looking for this psychologist is going to give me this answer. And it's going to give me this magic pill that's going to transform me. Whereas, whereas I think if as an athlete, you you do all the things you can do 100% Then you won't need a psychologist and the best psychologist is yourself. Because if you if you're in a situation where you five, three down in the third and you always seem to do seven, five, or seven, six in the third. The only way you're going to overcome that little that little mountain is by putting yourself in that position time and time again, and using different cues and looking at you know, the mistake you made in that situation and saying I'm not going to make that same mistake again. So I do echo

Daniel Kiernan  54:55

I'd like I can

Freddie Nielsen  54:56

I would like to jump in with a point there. Because someone so One who has benefited a lot from a sports psychologist, I think it's, I hear what you're saying. And it's it's great, but it's it sounds, I just think it's dangerous to make it sound like it's you can just fix it, you know, because if it were that easy, everybody would do it. And I think a lot of people also benefited from it. So So sometimes you need a notch in that direction to be able to take ownership, of course, you always need to take ownership. And maybe she would have gotten this eventually sibling and maybe she got there because she had a process with a sports psychologist and learn what to do when maybe what not to do. Or maybe maybe something triggered subconsciously. But at the end of the day is sports psychologists and right, yes, of course, you need to take responsibility yourself. But I think I think it's important that to think that it can really have a good effect. And I know, for example, I had a lot of benefit from it. And and maybe a sports psychologist can help you take ownership and, and be that more individual person. So I don't disagree, but I think it is very individual and and certainly can have a great benefit.

Kieron Vorster  56:07

To take, just so me just real quick, just to add on that point, my interpretation of Sabalenka's press conference about the psychologists was basically, I've had the psychologists in the past, it's really helped me in the past, but now it's time for me to take ownership and accountability. And that's what she did. So she wasn't saying the psychologist hadn't worked. I think what she was saying it's now time for me to stand up, step up to the plate and take ownership.

Emily Webley-Smith  56:33

Yeah on Freddie's point, I think a lot of it for each individual person is in order to accept something and change it, you've got to understand it first. And I think a lot of players wouldn't understand why some things just disappeared, like a serve or something like that. And I think that's where the psychologist for some players can actually help them to understand it's not gonna help necessarily to change it, but it might help them to understand what's going on. And then they're able to do something about it. But yeah, it could be could be very, that having done the years that she has done with great coaches or with the psychology that she actually has understood that she was then able to change it and release a release whatever it was that was stuck in her head about her serve. I thought it was really interesting on the first point of the final that she double faulted, and then rolled her eyes, smiled and got on with it and accepted it straightaway. Whereas I think sometimes when you see someone in their first Grand Slam final, or they don't start that well, ever, you've got that kind of ominous thing like a Pliskova at Wimbledon situation where they just freeze. And I think when she had that reaction, I thought that was great, because you just knew that she was going to keep going for it and keep going massive on the second serve, like she did for for the majority of the match, because she knew she couldn't get away with with not going big on the serve.

Daniel Kiernan  57:53

If I go to the doctors got I've got the flu, I go to the doctors, and the doctor prescribes me a course of treatment. I'm not fixed, you know, I have to I still have to take ownership of taking the medication, of maybe eating well, resting well, doing these things. If I if I bring you on board, Vossie as my physical trainer, I'm sorry, because you got a big job ahead. And, and you you prescribed me a certain program, I have to take ownership to still do that program. You know, if if I go to you Freddie to sort my forehand out, sorry, you've got a big job ahead mate. And you and you prescribe a certain thing, or you work on a certain technical element, certain tactical element, I still have to take ownership of turning it up every day giving my best 100% to do it. And the way that I look at psychology You see, I just look at it, it's mental fitness. That's all it is your physical fitness, mental fitness, and, and ultimately, sports psychologist, anybody there's nobody in the world can just fix somebody can just sort somebody until the person takes the ownership of it. Same with nutrition. You know, somebody can prescribe the best nutrition ever, but unless someone takes ownership to actually sticking to that by the, by the absolute book, they're not going to have the they're not going to have the effect. And that's where I just I think the ownership thing is massive and Robbie right to bring that up in all aspects of life in all aspects of life as soon as you have ultimate power of the mind when you take ownership and take responsibility of of situations, you know, but that I don't also want us to, to undervalue the great work that a lot of sports psychologists are doing

Freddie Nielsen  59:44

it to that point taking ownership can be to seek out help as well.

Kieron Vorster  59:50

So I would also like to change change the wording from a mental fitness to mental health. You want to have a healthy mind. And I think I think psychology plays a huge role role in that. I'm not saying that don't use a psychologist, I was just using different examples, but I think it could be a psychologist, it may not even be tennis related that they need help on it may be personal related related situations that they need help on. It may be something from their childhood or maybe you know, it may be something with an ex boyfriend and ex girlfriend. So I think it's important to, to, to really emphasize the changing of wording from mental fitness to mental health.

Daniel Kiernan  1:00:34

Yeah, but I think I think Vossie beyond that I think it's a bit like fitness, physical health in physical fitness. And as we get  more high performing, the more high performing that that fitness level is. And I think it's the same on the mind. I think there's there's mental health, absolutely which we all have to take care of our mental health. But there's also high performance fitness of the mind, which which Djokovic works three hours a day on, you know, he's you know, he's mindfulness is, you know, whatever it might be, to get to that absolute pinnacle of where you're at. So I think like, maybe we need a podcast just on this, because it's, I don't think we've ever had a topic where everyone's jumping in. And it's, it's great, because it's a, it's a passionate bit. But I do want to I do want to move us on, as well, as you know, fantastic points being made. And I'd love for us to pick that up again. And I want to bring it to you, Robbie, because you mentioned off air that, you know, I trust you that you picked Djokovic and Rybakina before the event, you know, I know you weren't out there at the preview. So what was what was your rybakina? Pick? Why? What did you see that? Maybe, you know, again, we're maybe overlooking her, you know, she's she's won Wimbledon. She's now a finalist at Australian Open. I know she didn't get the Wimbledon points. So her rankings not fully reflected. But what did you see in her before the event that that led to you believing she could win win the event?

Robbie Koenig  1:02:02

Well, I'll tell you, it's a sneaky answer, because I was that new exhibition event that they had in Dubai, that International Tennis league that was put on there, and it was some pretty decent,

Kieron Vorster  1:02:14

Just on that, Robbie, thanks for inviting me for dinner, when I message you, you just you just aired my message.

Robbie Koenig  1:02:20

Some of us have to work for a living. So I've watched the players there and you will get a sense, the care at some of these exhibition events who's like really there to train and use it as preparation for the preseason and who's just picking up a check. And I can tell you, a lot of the woman were really into it. And Swiatek rybakina were very much into it. And of course, they had to play against each other. And Rebecca net gave a good old fashioned Harding. And they were both very into it. I think the score was four and one at the end. And she literally hit her off the court and not too dissimilar. Play playing tennis like a Novak Djokovic, her length is exceptional. And that's something that gets overlooked. She still doesn't have the consistency of sinovac, but her length makes it so difficult to attack her. And then someone earlier mentioned how good servers or servers proper A, it is a proper pop on that serve. So a couple of serve was very difficult to attack the first ball, then you throw in the fact that she's got such good depth on the ground is and she broke three on tick there. And that set in my brain when the draw came out. And I saw that we're on track to meet in the fourth round. I thought hang on, this bodes well, because the fact that she's just beaten her so recently and weakness of badly, I thought she was under the good shot. And you know, at the end of the day, it was a pretty routine victory again, and I'm sure that off the back of beating her in a matchup was very competitive. And in so much as that they were both into it in Dubai, she came into their fourth round match with a lot of confidence.

Daniel Kiernan  1:04:05

Very good. And my my last one before we move on just I want to I want to mention a couple, a couple of other good results from the event. But to bring you in Emily, we spoke obviously about different dark horses. And a lot of us mentioned these are these new comers and there's lots of lots of new faces in the women's game. But as Azarenka made semi finals, you know, certainly you know, someone who's been around for a long time, Vekic, Ostapenko Pliskova, you know, names that that we've seen, you know, we've seen at the business end of slams, for many years all had good runs at least to the quarterfinals, you know, so there's still there's still plenty of life left in those players as well. You know, what was what was your take in general in the women's event and who do you see coming up with the rest of 2023

Emily Webley-Smith  1:04:59

Yeah, and I think it's a reflection of actually how tough it is to do well in Islam. Because those girls who are still consistently doing well have had that experience and they know what it takes. And I think Vossie touched on it last time, where actually the warm up events sometimes don't always have a great reflection on how the slam's gonna go. I don't think I wasn't aware of the scores from the exhibition, but Rybakina didn't have a great the tournament's coming into it coming into Australia. And I think, I think more than anything, I think the young players coming through like, like we said, with Kuvetova, who did have a good tournament, but like the other ones I do think a slam is it's a different nature, it's a different beast to the other t. And it's great that you've still got an Azarenka, or an Ostapenko, or that the young players have to beat, I still don't think any of them is particularly capturing the non diehard tennis fans attention. And that I think, is the problem in the sport, although it is wide open. I don't think that the average person would know what through vetova Or would know that Ostapenko still doing well, unless she has a fight with Danielle Collins like she did this week in Abu Dhabi. But I think from a tennis perspective, I don't think that that's capturing the attention of people, which is a shame because we can be pleased for Azarenka, but I don't think that's going to help to market the sport in a way that is going to get new fans on board to watch Grand Slam tennis

Daniel Kiernan  1:06:39

While we're on the women's event and that

Freddie Nielsen  1:06:42

can I make one point with your question about all the players. It also just shows how difficult it is to to pick a dark horse because there's so many players in the women's stroller that have some kind of merit to them.

Kieron Vorster  1:06:54

Because you can't pick a dark horse so you don't have

Freddie Nielsen  1:06:58

Who was your Dark Horse?

Kieron Vorster  1:07:00

Leila Fernandez.

Freddie Nielsen  1:07:02

Oh, well done. Yeah. Good. Thank you. Winner winner chicken dinner. My point is, you have Ostapenko You have Azarenka, you have Pliskova. These girls all have merits that weren't that that do that we can pick them as dark horses and I feel that there are so many women's players that have some kind of merit, so it's really difficult to pick the dark horses.

Daniel Kiernan  1:07:28

A bit of advice though, Freddy McNally, he's not the one.

1:07:32

She's done and dusted for me now. She's

Emily Webley-Smith  1:07:36

you, I put you in the doubles and 15 minutes before her first round doubles match. She retired and said she wasn't gonna play.

Freddie Nielsen  1:07:44

Yeah, she's done for me. She's I'm never going back there.

Daniel Kiernan  1:07:48

She will be thankful of that. You know, you've been you've been nothing but a curse on her. For the last time I was ready. But on the I want to I want to also mention, Emily, that women's doubles, because talking to dark horses some for some reason, and talking about people that maybe underwhelming and not in the public eye. This pair is like the Woody's, the Bryn's I mean, if I had a little look this morning, and I was like, ah, COVID and Sydney Cova. They've what they've won the last three slams. Last four slams that they've played, the last four that they played,

Emily Webley-Smith  1:08:26

and they're still under the radar.

Daniel Kiernan  1:08:28

They didn't play the French Open last year, but they wanted in 2021 they weren't they won the Olympics. I mean, it's like they literally just when they were ever listening,

Emily Webley-Smith  1:08:40

and they're so great together. They've played since they were eight, they've played together in tournaments since they were a and there's absolutely there's never any blame. They actually last year for the f