Cameron Norrie & Facu Lugones - Becoming a Top 10 ATP Player

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Daniel Kiernan  00:09

Welcome to Episode 164 of Control the Controllables. And I have to start this one actually by by saying a big congratulations to Coco golf for making her first ever Grand Slam final. It feels like we've been talking about her for a long time. And I also have to say a big well done to Freddy Nielsen and Kieran Vorster, who in our last last episode, when we were given our predictions in the French Open preview, they both picked Coco as somebody who could go all the way to the final or possibly even win it, but in her way, is our favorite Iga Swiatek, who is putting an unbelievable run together, winning her semi final again, you know, people are struggling to get close to her. And that's an amazing French Open women's final. I did pick Djokovic To play Ruu in the final and why would I go against Rafael Nadal? How can I do that 13 time, Roland Garros champion and what an amazing match that was the other night but I did pick Djokovic to play against Casper Ruud, and I hope you're all enjoying the French Open and enjoy the finals weekend. But today's guests Wow. A world number 11 was as high as top 10 in the world only a few weeks ago.

Cameron Norrie  01:41

Yeah, I'm not really thinking oh I'm 11 in the world and I'm gonna come out and chop this guy. He's He's a wildcard or whatever not. I'm not taking a pretty pretty match by match. And yeah, I'm sure this this everyone has played so good nowadays, you know, especially the tournaments that I'm at, and there's no easy matches, even if you you're playing a wild card that week.

Daniel Kiernan  02:03

And Cameron Norrie and his amazing coach, what a great guy Facu Lugones. And what a journey those two are on, you know, college teammates. They've been on this incredible journey together. And I just think it's so inspirational to see in a world that we're always looking for more, and we're looking people are looking to use other people to step up. You've just got a genuine relationship there. You know, they respect each other. They have worked incredibly hard. I've had them both on the podcast before and the last time we had camera Nouriel on the podcast, he was 76 in the world. And it was just before he played Diego Schwartzman in the pandemic led US Open. And what an incredible journey he's been on. We've all been following him very closely here at the podcast, went into the world's top 10, only six weeks ago, and he's really established himself as one of the hot properties on the ATP tour is putting a proper, it's not season, but a proper career that he's starting to build. And to have those guys come on, to hear them bounce off each other to see the genuine relationship that they have is a real treat to me. And I hope it's a real treat to you, as we're finishing the French Open, and then getting ready for that grass court season as well. And if you want to hear our thoughts on that, also in the preview myself, Freddie Nielsen, and Kieran Vorster in the last episode, we talk about that and give, there's a lot of opinions that come out. You might agree you might disagree, but a very thought provoking time in our industry with the way that it's working. But you're here to listen to Cam and to Facu. And I'm not going to make you wait any longer. So here is Cameron Norrie and his coach Facu Lugones. So calm, fat Q A big welcome back to control the controllables it's it's great to have you both. Thanks for joining me.

Cameron Norrie  04:10

Thanks for having us, Dan

Facu Lugones  04:11

Hey, Dan, thanks for having us. Pleasure to be here.

Daniel Kiernan  04:14

No, it's such a pleasure. And I guess having both of you on the podcast and and since then there's been there's been big changes. You know, Cameron, Norrie, you've you've gone from you were 76 in the world when we last spoke. And now sitting at number 11 being as high as top 10. So I guess Yeah, one of the one of the big things I wanted to have you guys on quite often we see players that that hang around 50 to 100 in their careers, and they can't quite break through. And you You seem to have been one of the one of the unique few that have So how was that last 1820 months being for you cam?

Cameron Norrie  04:57

Yeah, so she had been pretty crazy. Last last couple of years, especially with with COVID, and all that happening, and I think it was kind of a strange evolution, you know, after the week, before COVID hit, I lost a lot of points, and I dropped to 17. And suddenly the rankings were frozen. And then I was back in New Zealand with all the time in the world to think about how it just dropped 20 spots and I can't kind of get it back, you know, I was already leaving, wanting to come back strong and come back firing and and I think the, the pandemic helped me a lot of it, you know, just in terms of staying staying pretty focused and it was only the tennis courts there and only the only the hotels there's not a lot going on. So I was able to really channel my focus fully into the tennis no distractions and, and gave it everything and and I've been continuing to keep the scent and to do that. So I think in a strange way it kind of kick started that and then and then yeah, it's been fun. It's been a lot of lot of tennis, a lot of matches, and it's Been a good time and still still got a lot to improve on. So it was exciting. You know,

Daniel Kiernan  06:16

And what one thing that hits me Cam is like, when you're when you're out there, and I know you were 76 when you weren't you weren't you were around 50 Weren't you? That was you were kind of sat sat at at a great ranking being 50 in the world. Did you in your heart of hearts believe that you were a top 10 player.

Cameron Norrie  06:36

I think I think at the time I knew I had the ability to play at that level and play with those guys. But I was having weeks where I wasn't playing at that level. You know, I had made semis of Acapulco beat some some good players and then final Auckland. And so I knew I had the level there. I just I wasn't consistently putting it in. I think my worst level, you know, is not as good as it is now. And on bad days. I'm still managing to get through matches. So I think maybe that's that's the difference. And I think it's comes down to the level of focus we have in practices and the level of the way we do things and practices and the gym, off the court how we organize everything. So I think all of those things have played a big factor in that raising that base level and and I think I knew I had the level to be top 10. But the my best level was was top 10. But then having the ability to bring it every day and do it consistencies consistently is the reason why those guys were in the top 10 So I think I did believe it but it was happening quicker than then I thought but which is which is great, but still still pushing for a lot more and got a lot more in the tank as well.

Daniel Kiernan  07:57

But Facu and I'd like to bring you in at this point. I think football for you actually, I think this year has been more impressive for me that watching than last year, because, you know, we've I've had a few people or how to Iga Swiatek on a couple of years ago on the podcast. Dalma Galfi, you obviously see Emma Raducanu right now Kazatkinanow there's been quite a few people that have come on the podcast. And they've spoken that they've had like this big result. And their rankings gone up quite high. But they don't really know why they've had that results, and then they can't replicate it. And in almost don't feel ready to be that ranking. And I guess there was probably some question marks people looking out can Cameron Norrie, repeat that in 2022 and find that consistency to keep you there is it just he's had a great three, four months, and then he goes off, whereas you've absolutely kind of cemented your place as someone at that ranking. So for you factor, what have you seen? And how have you guys I guess, been able to work that process out together to be able to repeat and get that consistency?

Facu Lugones  09:08

Yeah, I think what happened with Cam is not like one thing change. And then it was a click and right after it started getting resolved the fingers like a process of a lot of years building like a strong foundation and doing things a similar way. We'd like the same team and every everyone to get on the same page. And then something started clicking and started doing well. So when he had those big results he was ready to sustain it he was not like a one good week and that was it. Kinda what he said just blink, bringing that base level higher and improve his bad days. And I think that's why he's able to sustain this level and keep getting better. It's not like it was just one big result and then the work wasn't done. So I think it was a combination of just having a strong foundation then him also being hungry after a big weeks, you know, like he had a good week and then the next week again, he Be just starting from zero and like as hungry as he was a week before So, and also not taking, I don't know, when he won Indian Wells. He was like, we didn't do anything, we went to dinner and went to bed. And then the next day, we're on a plane to get to the next tournament. It's not like, he wasn't like, getting too pumped up with big weeks, and now getting too frustrated with a bad week. So I think those two things, the strong foundation and also taking the wins and the loss is pretty much the same word was the key to like for him to, to stay at that level and keep getting good results.

Daniel Kiernan  10:30

I remember we had a we had a player at the Academy and the level was okay, but he he went to Morocco to play a 15k. And he qualified and won the first round and gotten his first ATP point, and bizarrely, actually Carreno Busta, Dominic Thiem and Fucsovics were in that same futures. But this guy when he when he won his first round, I think he might have played Thiem second round, he started sending everybody a message thanking them. Like, it was like, this is your life, you know, it was on every social media. He was sending like text messages, you know, thank you. And I don't I don't even think he played another futures event. You know, it was like this, retired on the spot that was like it but you felt it and and to bring you back income because I listened to interviews you do long days and I love coming back and you know, picking up interviews of players picking up the day's results. And and I think you can tell a lot from interviews with players of where their mindsets at, you know, not just in tennis, but in football as well. And I listened to that one at the start of 2021. When you were asked and I think for cool, we spoke about this when we when we spoke a few months ago. And the ATP Tennis TV whoever it was asked you the question, Who do we watch out for? In 2021. And and you deadpan said me, Cameron Norrie. And, and I watched that and I thought he means that, you know, that wasn't like, it wasn't an arrogant cockiness to it, there was a there was an assured self belief. So what was it that you were feeling at that time? Because I guess what we feel internally often ends up coming out externally before before the public eye sees it. So can you explain where your mindset was at when that interview was done? And after that preseason going into 2021

Cameron Norrie  12:35

Yeah, I think I was I was asked the question I was thinking about thinking about players and and who could have a breakout season or the what why not myself you know and I remember that that preseason I was in the car with with Vashikaran we're just talking and chatting I was like what why kind of be top 20 Why kind of finish top 20 this year or will top 30 is no reason why not like I have the movement I have bursts and and I think even talking about it with my team and talking about it with with everyone I feel like I genuinely believe that and I was thinking there's no reason why not you know see all these other guys and yeah like focus shared we're doing things better practicing well and and I had I had everything that I needed all the tools there it was just a matter of me going to go to execute it and and just keep training the focus level to be able to keep doing it for longer periods of time and and yeah, it's like I'm a player I'm not going to go out and just be you one on one hitting you off the court I'm going to have to go out and make you uncomfortable and put the ball in uncomfortable situations parts of the court and chip away you're not happy and easy and I'm gonna have to do that with with every player that I play against so I feel like I had the mindset and I had the physicality and and I had all the tools there I just was a matter of going out and doing it and executing and keep doing it for longer periods of time.

Facu Lugones  14:09

Yeah sorry I want one thing I want to add it's good when the player says that because then you can hold him accountable you know he says that we want I'm gonna have a breaker here then he can have a practice you can have a week because you show him the veto say look this is why you said so you better back it up.

Daniel Kiernan  14:25

Absolutely. But that's the that's the thing I don't think I mean, I don't know you really well can but I know you relatively well and spent a little bit of time with you that wasn't a comment that you would make if you didn't think it you know Nick Kyrgios might say it you know or Bublik might just say it you know what I mean? There's certain characters that might just say something for a bit of attention. But you you very clearly very clearly felt it. And and I guess the to pick you over what you said earlier cam as well. Around the pandemic, all of a sudden there was nothing else to do? Do you feel like you became a bit more obsessed during during that period and that the tennis became an obsession and, and making this amazing career? Because whatever happens from now you've already had an amazing career, I know there's more you want to achieve, and it's not time for you to reflect. Do you think you became more obsessed during that period?

Cameron Norrie  15:22

I would, I would say, Yeah, obsessed, but I loved it, you know, I was fully engaged in it and enjoying, enjoying the practices, enjoying scouting my opponents enjoying doing all the little things that I didn't think I was doing before, but But taking just going to extreme lengths and enjoying doing those and enjoying getting into routines and the way I was practicing the way I was preparing, and everything and I was, I think the pandemic made it easy. And you know, it was just tunnel vision, it was just what next gown on the pavement and there was no one no crowd there to distract. There was no one to sell tickets for there was no one. All right, you have your parents or your sister coming this way. None of that isn't just you got your coach there. And the other guy and there's no clapping as you know exactly when you're playing is there's there's just it became pretty easy to to find the formula and to keep doing it. But yeah, I would say it's an obsession, but I was loving it and enjoying it. And I was lucky to be playing tennis at that time. You know, it was love other people struggling and, and not working and just at home. So I was lucky to be out playing playing tennis and enjoying it and and there was still a lot of admin to do with the flights and tests and everything, but it was all worth it.

Daniel Kiernan  16:55

And do you think that I guess we see it at all levels. You know, if somebody's winning a lot of matches at a college level, you know, you feel as if they've maybe already got a one love to love Headstart, when they play. If someone's winning a lot of futures level, they often quite go through the first couple of rounds, is that something that you've you felt going into tournaments that, that that aura that you're carrying, because you're winning a lot of matches, is is having a little bit of an impact as well.

Cameron Norrie  17:27

Honestly, I was not not really thinking about too much. I'm just going in and everyone I'm playing now is this good level. So I'm gonna have to take everyone like anyone you know, so I'm not thinking thinking that if anything, I think I'm usually going in as favorites that people are more relaxed playing me and you know, it's okay. Maybe it's okay to lose or, or they have no fear going in and come out firing and playing well. So I think it's, I'm looking at the other way I'm saying these guys are more relaxed coming out against me and playing trying to turn to take my spot so I want to make sure that I'm bringing my best level and taking it to the skies and showing them my physicality and showing them that I don't want to be on the court and trying to try to bring that level to show them that and, and really I'm not really thinking on like I'm I'm a living in the world I'm I'm gonna come out and chop this guy. He's He's a wild card or whatever not. I'm not taking a pretty pretty match by match and, and yeah, I'm sure this this everyone has plays so good nowadays, you know, especially the tournaments that I'm at, and there's no easy matches, even if you you're playing a wild card that week. Now he's still still talented or everything's does. It's not easy, but I think I've done done a better job of of being that that favorite and coming through and playing. Like I said, raising my base level and playing to win and not really giving away too much.

Daniel Kiernan  19:05

I think we one of the things I say to players I work with, certainly one of my beliefs in not just in tennis, but his life. We're never far away. We're not that far away from going wrong. You know, so we've kind of just stay on our toes. And I think tennis is an amazing sport for biting us in the arse if we get ahead of ourselves. But on the same time, we're never that far away from going right either. You know, when somebody's struggling a little bit it feels a long way away. But to bring you back any effect Q on it is comes talk there about that that position of playing a plane is the favorite not taking things for granted. You know, one of one of my favorite quotes right now is, you know, this, this whole concept of having consistency over intensity. You know, being able to do it for a long period of time rather than just kind of doing it for a real short period of time in the last set 70 matches cam has played in the last two years. Let's see what your knowledge and I'm going to test you later on your knowledge about cam as well. How many do you think he's won against lower ranked players last 70 matches

Facu Lugones  20:16

I can tell you this year, probably last two, three. I want to take a guess. But like 10 matches is lower ranked player

Daniel Kiernan  20:26

zero it is at 54 and 16 over the last two years against lower ranked players. And then every tournament you've played as the number one seed you've won, you know, so those you know, those statistics show that you're doing a great job on that. What? As as cams Coach, what, uh, what are you guys doing to keep them in that mindset? And you know, how much does that please you that that's happened over the last couple of years?

Facu Lugones  20:50

Yeah, and it's funny because at the beginning, he he was struggled with that a lot he you have, like, I remember at some point, I think at the end of 2019, he had better record against top 50 players and guys below 100. Yeah, so he was struggling with being favored at the beginning. But I think now it's, it's all about that bringing the base level there's some things that he's gonna do every day, no matter who he plays, you know, like, a lot of segments or returns on the court now and don't give free points, like, stay tough in the long rallies. And when he ticks all those boxes, it's very tough for lower rank players to beat him, that he can still happen. And so obviously, he's now 11. So there's a lot of lower rank players on hand, but, but I think doing that every single day for two years, gave him that that consistency of like, for the most part, he's beating lower rank players. And I think he is really aware of all those things that if he takes those four or five boxes every day, he's gonna be really tough to be are there gonna be there's gonna be three sets very close, which it can happen. But I think focusing a lot on the on the basics and doing them really well, every single day, not just a couple of weeks. So I think that's what got him to, to race, he's very slow.

Daniel Kiernan  22:06

One of the things that I love and you know, I, every now and then I send you guys a little message, I don't expect one back, I just want you guys to know that we are following and supporting, and I'm loving watching your progress cam. But one of the things that that does happen in, in our sport is quite quite a normal thing in our sport. And this is one of the things I love about your relationship is players will often feel that they need to be surrounded by a coach who is either played to the level they're trying to get at, or coach to the level that they're trying to get at. You know, and and as you've gone along this way, you know, you've obviously been exploring new territory together, you know, from from going from 200 to 150, you know, moving into, you know, playing with now playing ATP events. Now going deep now, winning matches in Grand Slams. How's how's that been? For you Facu as a coach, to be exploring all of these new new findings alongside your player?

Facu Lugones  23:14

Yeah, it's, it's great. And you always try to keep learning and keep learning with Cam, I asked him probably more questions that he asked me, and you try to like, ask other coaches and obviously look back and see what things work and what things didn't. And you realize sometimes later on that you made mistakes, and other ones you were right. And just Yeah, it's it's, it's pretty, pretty lucky for me that I can still be part of this team and, but also like credit to come for, for believing in the team he put around and obsessing with it and knowing that when things are going well, it's mainly because of him. And when things are going bad. It's also mainly because of him. At the end of the day. He's the one playing and doing most most of the things and yeah, it's just unbelievable learning experience for me and for him. And yeah, I think we're both really humble in the way that we are made when we make mistakes, and we make bad decisions. And we try not to make them again. And yeah, just try to improve everyone in each department and keep going. Yeah, and

Daniel Kiernan  24:22

I just I just love the connection between you too. And I think you know you can see it even when you're watching a match and a bit like a bit like Alcaraz. I know that Juan Carlos Ferreira has won a Grand Slam. But again, I think it's that's not the reason that relationship works for me that relationship works because there's a there's a deep personal connection there and relationship and I think it's so lovely and such a an inspiration for players up and coming players to see that you know, and I love what you've said there fuck you because it can often be when the player wins it's because of the player. But when the player loses it's because of the coach. And then all of a sudden we've got 127 coaches that are scared for their job at the end of every Grand Slam, you know, so it's lovely to see that come. What's your highlight of the last two years?

Cameron Norrie  25:13

Yeah, just just to add on to the the back of that, I think, from what Facu said, I think for me having people that are that are honest and truthful around me, you know, having Facu they're calling me out if I'm doing something wrong or having Julian call him out. I like this. Like he said, we're very honest with one another having having Devin there to as a sounding board. So I think having honesty within the team and knowing when someone's gonna give it to you straight, you know, telling the truth and, and not going to make you just try to feel better and lying, lying, you know, like, oh, yeah, you're doing things well, when actually, you're not just to maybe keep their job or to, I don't know, make it more comforting. But there's, I think everyone's pretty, pretty tough on one another, and which in a good way, you know, and, and everyone trusts each other. So I think that's another reason why it works as well. And the reason why we're, I think it's we try not to make the same mistake twice, which is,

Daniel Kiernan  26:17

But you can only do that, can you if the relationship is built, the relationship comes first. You know, like if somebody comes on board, unless maybe it's a Lendl, I guess Lendl has had that maybe fear factor. But if somebody comes on board and starts giving it to you straight and you think well, hold on a minute, not sure I trust you yet. You know, I'm not sure you've got my back yet. It's a lot harder, I would imagine to hear it. You know, and obviously, you guys have built up that very, very organic relationship through being college teammates, you know, going along that way. So you, you genuinely know, you've got each other's back. It's now it's now much easier, I would imagine to hear things that potentially can be hard to hear when it's coming from someone like that.

Facu Lugones  27:04

Yeah. And it's also like, when, when I'm saying something to him, he doesn't take it personally, it's just for the best interest of his 10 isn't saying when he asked me to do something, is I'm not taking it personal at all. And he doesn't take it personal, even if it's harsh criticism, you know, but it's always always with the best interest and with a lot of respect, and that's why I don't think we ever, like had big fights or anything, because we're both super respectful of each other. And like, we want, he wants the best for me, and I want the best for him. And that's the way the way works.

Daniel Kiernan  27:39

Good. It's a good basis or relationship. That's, that's for sure. You know, lots of people can learn Cam before, I I'd like to ask you about what's next, you know, because I've picked up even from this conversation here.

Facu Lugones  27:52

You're sorry, sorry. I want to hear the highlight of last year. Exactly.

Daniel Kiernan  27:55

That's why that's, that's what I'm going to ask now. You know, what, what is the highlight of the last couple of years?

Cameron Norrie  28:02

Why highlight was winning my first title in Cabo, I think, okay. I was always, I was desperately trying to do that. A lot of finals last year. And I was like, killing me, you know, I was like, Oh, my God. Now the opportunity here and I wanted to do it. And it was the perfect place. I love playing in Mexico, and love being the beach. It was it was a great week and managed to play a joke all week and really set set the tone for the end of the year and, and I was able to also like enjoy the moment of winning and not just sprint off to the next tournament, I was able to stay there one day and relax and enjoy it, you know, so it was it was a perfect week. And it was a great feeling big, big really winning that first title and big monkey off the off the back. So that was that was definitely my highlight even even obviously, anywhere else as some bigger and obviously huge tournament way bigger than Cabo. But for me the first title was more special than then went in that one.

Daniel Kiernan  29:12

Before I ask you for Q what yours is one thing I've always wondered, you know, I was a tennis player that only ever played to try and put a bit of food on the table. I never got past that level, you know, playing doubles and challenges and singles and futures. You're trying to win. And I've always thought that's got to be the biggest pressure in tennis, you know, once you once you make your way through the pressure, the pressure drops, but I was listening to a podcast the other day, I don't know what it was. But they were what they were saying is actually the more you win, and the higher you get, the more the pressure builds because expectation builds, the more more people put expectation on you feel you've got to hold that position or what in your experience because you've done the levels, you know, you've you've been through and you've played, as you've got higher, has the pressure intensified? Have you been able to relax into who you are and what you're doing a little bit more?

Cameron Norrie  30:14

No, I mean, you got to be crazy to think that if you win something that the pressure for me only gets more, you know, there's pressure for to back it up this than this the next time you're going to have a bigger match or a big opportunity. So for me that it only only gets more and only quadruples which is what I love. And I'm always trying to play bigger matches and I want to be in those bigger situations more often. So and I love that and you know, you if you win some you people are going to be thinking, Oh, he's gonna go do it again next year. And that's that's okay. And that's i That's why I like the challenge of of tennis in the way that the rankings are in the way the things are, you got to come back and back it up, you know, so that just winning a title winning a thing just elevates you to to perform on it on another level? And yes, it's no you win something, there's no relaxing after it and enjoying it from it. Obviously, you enjoy that the feelings of winning and enjoy the week and the hard work and it's a nice clap on the back, you're going in the right direction, but for me is, is I think it's sunny, appreciating gets gets more. I don't know if you agree with that, or not Facu?

Facu Lugones  31:34

I do I do. And I like that I think that's what keeps you going and wanting to be more alert. And I think that's, that's why he keeps having decent results because he never got relaxed. If not, he's more more edgy, more, more ready and more everything to to sustain a level

Daniel Kiernan  31:55

And what your highlight Facu the last couple of years.

Facu Lugones  31:59

I actually really enjoy when when he won't deal, right, because he started the year so bad, we both had COVID Just within our preseason went to Australia. So I'm prepared and I don't know, that uncertainty, like maybe we gonna have a slow slow start of the year. And it's gonna take a lot to be confident again and win a lot of matches. And we came back from Australia, we did a really good block, but obviously not knowing what was gonna happen. And then the second week, he wins a title playing, playing really good and big moments and going going to win it. And so I thought that was that was really good. You know, it's okay, I think we're on track for another good year, when two weeks before that it was a little bit tough. I don't think I want my favorite.

Daniel Kiernan  32:47

And to move on Cam, I'm conscious of time and there's a couple of things, a few things I want to ask you. In terms of that next camp, you know, you you're an established top 15 player in the world top 20 player in the world, you know, you you've you've had a little jump into top 10 What have you got to do to become someone who is challenging, later ends of grand slams on a consistent basis

Cameron Norrie  33:16

Thinking a lot more of the same and doing things better and executing at finer margins and playing my my best and bigger moments. And I think that's all comes down to having the matches like I just did in French Open losing third round to Khachanov he was better than me and, and comes down to executing in those moments. And I think it's just going going back to the drawing board and practice and just working on the focus working on the the intensity and keep enjoying keep enjoying it I think I I think I just need to do things better in practice and in the matches. And in those bigger moments really, really I've got to be pretty accurate with where I'm hitting the ball and very close to the line and and taking risks as well. So it's all fine margins and and yeah, I think staying healthy and keep keep doing the right things and that's been a big goal of mine started is yet to make make quarters of slams semis or slams and start start challenging those those top top guys and those bigger matches and learning in those bigger matches. I want to be there playing playing for shirts and the quarters playing five sets and semis and playing those matches to really learn and yeah, I believe I've got the game as still still a long way to go. But I think it's going to come down to to a couple fun fine margins and being very picky with how I'm doing things in practice and how I'm how I'm executing and and just really keep testing that focus I think I'm looking forward to the end of the year, that's for sure.

Daniel Kiernan  35:04

Well, you you were like mystic mag. Last time we spoke. You know, you spoke to me like 16 hours before you played Diego Schwartzman at the US Open. And I said, How do you see this one going cam you said it'll be it's going to be a four hour match. Five sets, it's going to be a grind. I'm going after the in for the long haul. And I sat there in my lounge. I was so excited. I was watching I was like, come on, come Come on. And as you literally will match point, the clock went 359 to four hours. Like oh, like on the dark, and I was like this guy is on the I can't believe it. He's literally told me what's going to happen. So So what's your mystic make prediction for the grass court season?

Cameron Norrie  35:53

I can be that precise for that outline again. I don't know I don't want to. I don't want to jinx anything.

Daniel Kiernan  36:00

I'm just gonna roll with it. We're

Cameron Norrie  36:02

gonna roll I do feel something I'll let you know and I'll take

Daniel Kiernan  36:04

you if you feel it let let me know. But I'm going to do two two quick fire we always do on Control the Controllables as you both know, a little quick fire round and the first one is for you cam and I'm gonna I'm gonna say a subject or a person and you're gonna give me some thoughts. Okay, Carlos Alcaraz

Cameron Norrie  36:27

Beast as the these two guys so insane what he's doing for me. I mean, there's such a young age being that that mature to handle the way he is off the court and in to be to be the level he's playing in the bigger moments and the way he's hitting the ball was great for our sport. I'm loving it loving watching him loving having battles with him and and yeah, very genuine guy, very genuine team as well.

Daniel Kiernan  36:56

Andy Murray

Cameron Norrie  36:59

Its changed a lot about you know, especially playing fantasy football with him.

Daniel Kiernan  37:03

And some of that yeah, he

Cameron Norrie  37:06

Unfortunately he was the the luckiest guy ever won the league but yeah, great guy. Great to practice with always have good practices. And yeah, throughout the years he's been wonderful for Facu and I to to practice with him and to pick his brains and to have him around the tournaments and and yeah, for me, I really love that. Obviously he would like to be doing things better and having better results but for me he has he doesn't care what anyone else thinks he's going there and he's competing as hard as he can and he's he's training hard still with all the struggles going on so for me I really respect that and I like that I like his attitude and how much he loves tennis I don't You don't see many guys loving tennis as much as he does watching every result is he's taking care of everything so it's I respect him a lot and and yeah, he's helped me a lot as well

Daniel Kiernan  38:07

And he's had wins over Alcaraz and Zverev In the last 12 months or so you know, he's still

Cameron Norrie  38:14

He is great to have in the draw you know because he takes out one of those big guys and then yeah always perfect and he always has interesting matches for them so it's perfect to have around

Daniel Kiernan  38:25

I think it's gonna be really interesting because grass on the grass there's not that many guys you think are gonna win that many matches on grass you know so he it's gonna be really interesting over these next make these next few weeks Iga Swiatek

Cameron Norrie  38:40

for me she's so focused, you know you see her and doing the her warm ups and with her team around her she's just locked in and I don't I've never spoken to her but just seeing the way she she's handling herself and even in the warm ups in the gym, you know, just like next level another level compared to to the rest of our level of focus. And then she was I'd actually haven't followed the results the last couple of days but she has been chopping everyone up on the clay the whole time. So

Daniel Kiernan  39:14

She lost a set yesterday and then after losing a set she then she then went in love and 2, so right so yeah, so she's she's still rocking it it's it's hard to see that anyone's gonna take her take her out Emma Raducanu

Cameron Norrie  39:33

obviously very very unreal what she did at US Open and and yeah, for me, I hope she she can find that same level you know, I must be quite frustrating for her to have that one. One week and yeah, she's probably got a lot of expectations coming up for the grass and and yeah, really, I don't see her like you said you're not she's not far off playing playing great again. So I think she's got it in there and and looking forward to seeing how she does over the grass and I don't really know her too well either you know she's she's pretty quiet and but she seems she seems nice and I haven't really spoken to her too much further looking forward to seeing how she's gonna do over the grass and oh, she likes it.

Daniel Kiernan  40:23

Last two questions. This is the listeners need to lock in here. And we'll by the time this goes out, we will know the result. But tonight Rafa plays Novak in the quarterfinals of the French Open. Where's your money?

Cameron Norrie  40:39

No vac for me, three or four sets maybe three I think three sets Novak money.

Daniel Kiernan  40:47

I said to a few people. The worst thing that happened to the draw for everybody was the match in Madrid with Alcaraz it just felt like he locked himself in throughout that match you know as as the match was happening. You could see the old Novak coming back and I think I think he's the one to beat but who then goes on and wins Roland Garros men's title this year is your money on Novak duck all the way I do you think Alcaraz can do it? Can one of the other young guys Holger Rooney is is in quarterfinals now who? Who's your winner?

Cameron Norrie  41:24

Chocolates wins for me?

Daniel Kiernan  41:27

Clear and the women's.

Cameron Norrie  41:29

So you can't find me I can't go with anyone else. So that was my to win. Pretty odds on favorites for sure. But

Daniel Kiernan  41:36

well yeah, but how many times do we all go against Rafa as well? I've heard coming it's rather like six times and French Open.

Cameron Norrie  41:43

Or me. They're playing they're playing later. Tonight.

Daniel Kiernan  41:47

They're the Night March.

Cameron Norrie  41:48

I think that's not that's not good for forever? No, I think it's going to be tough to get it up on top of it. She's going to be stepping in and and she's gonna be using the drop shot a lot and it's gonna be a nightmare to plan tonight thank Javert

Daniel Kiernan  42:03

it's an it's an interesting one and more of a request my last one the Davis Cup finals is in Malaga. It's an hour. i We all came to watch you play in your Batista or goop match in my bear a few years ago which for me was the when you were born, you know you were born on the stage to in that match? You know, it was just it was incredible. So it's a request are you guys gonna get get through Glasgow so you can get to Malaga in December?

Cameron Norrie  42:32

Yep, there's the plan. Yeah,

Daniel Kiernan  42:35

Good luck mate. And, and thank you so much for coming on. And now we're going to pass the spotlight over the fat queue because we're gonna see how well he knows camera nori. Oh, all right. Yeah, so how, how old was cam when he picked up his first ATP point?

Facu Lugones  42:54

17

Daniel Kiernan  42:55

Oh, nailed it. And where was it? I think Israel calm down.

Cameron Norrie  43:02

Now. It was in Bournemouth very up to play against Nicolas Rosensweig as to forehands there you go and serves lefty lefty and righty

Daniel Kiernan  43:17

that's a good it's a good win I mean, he's not he's not he's bringing all sorts he's he's bringing all sorts to the table. And what what was the date when Ken became an ATP top 10 player in the world

Facu Lugones  43:33

Date? Oh after Miami so what's it a third week of April five or six seven

Daniel Kiernan  43:43

April four so you got the you got you got the right week? Well

Facu Lugones  43:49

I got a message I got a message from all Alcaraz that day saying that he gave us top 10 when he made when he beat Hurkacz here yeah.

Daniel Kiernan  43:58

That isn't that though like these players and Cam your you know you guys that have this it is an obsession like you talked about with Andy Murray as well. They know the results they know what's going on you guys understand that the tennis world you know I speak to juniors about this all the time and they don't know who we coach a young Spanish girl and she doesn't know who Muguruza was. And I was like what you know come on like what? What's going on? You know, how are you? How can you say that? What is Cam's win percentage, and if you don't have to get to the point win percentage on the ATP Grand Slam and Davis Cup matches are included in his career. Can I give a guess? You can but I want I want Facu.

Facu Lugones  44:46

I'm gonna say 65%

Cameron Norrie  44:49

56?.

Daniel Kiernan  44:54

Coach your coach has got a high pick a high opinion of you. Come Come was almost now 56.8. So 56 What year and month did Cameron Norrie change to playing under the British flag?

Facu Lugones  45:13

What year says he was?

Daniel Kiernan  45:14

Give me the year? If you got the year then I need the month.

Facu Lugones  45:22

2013

Daniel Kiernan  45:23

Nailed it. Yeah, I

Facu Lugones  45:24

Don't know, the month,

Daniel Kiernan  45:26

I believe April 2013, right. Cam, correct? Yeah, that's correct. And highest ever ITF Junior ranking?

Facu Lugones  45:39

10 Yeah.

Daniel Kiernan  45:42

You've got to get higher calm. We can't, you can't be finishing your with you know, that's too much symmetry. You know, ITF Pro and ITF. Junior, we've got to get higher than 10. And nice. The most important question of the day. Last one. Which football team does camera Nury support

Facu Lugones  46:02

Newcastle. Newcastle United,

Daniel Kiernan  46:04

The richest club in the world

Cameron Norrie  46:07

Watch out for us the next couple of years.

Daniel Kiernan  46:10

Exciting times, boys. Yeah, you're both legends, honestly, to you know, to come on and to come on and give you a time like this and such fun conversation to have this so many people that are supporting you from afar, you know, proud of these amazing careers that you're putting together. I know it's not the time to reflect and stop. There's plenty more for you to go Cam, you know, all the very best this summer, all the very best over over the next few years. You've got a long career ahead and keep doing your thing. And thank you for coming and sharing with us on Control the Controllables guys,

Cameron Norrie  46:49

Thanks for having us Dan.

Facu Lugones  46:51

Always a pleasure talking to you.

Daniel Kiernan  46:53

I really, really hope you enjoyed that chat as much as much as I did. I would love to have Vicki next week to talk about this one. And all that she's she's listened to it. And as she's bringing it together, but it is one o'clock in the morning in the Kiernan household. We've had a busy busy week lots going on at the Academy. We have our annual Kiernan, Beavers match. That's my head coach Nigel Beavers, top man, and we go head to head in our annual match at the academy. Very exciting for all the players, we get involved. So it's been it's been difficult to get the episode out this week. So I've decided to make sure that I get it out there. It's just me talking to you. At the end as much as I would love to have Vicki next to me. And what I would be saying to Vicki right now is just how much I love these guys. You know, they they give without, without making you feel bad. We're talking number 11 in the world. Do you know what a good that is? You know, we're talking. I know he doesn't act like it. But he's a superstar. He's loving it. He's Indian Wells champion. And he just yeah, of course done. Let's jump on. Let's have a chat. The chat was so easy. The insight I took from it. I mean, so many things, but I think I talked about this. I take so much from interviews when I listened to interviews about mindset and listening to Cameron Norrie, he's, he's not done. You know, he's, he's ready to push his career on. You know, I loved how he talked about just loving the challenge, the pressure gets greater, but I just love it and the I could see his face. He did. He loves it. You know, he's, he's going to keep on going, you know whether he can go on and win grand slams, who knows. But he's certainly going to put himself in that mixer. And he's going to continue having a fantastic career. I have no doubt about it, as long as his body is okay, as long as he continues to take care of his body and feel healthy. He's got the mindset, he's learning all the time. And for us to be able to as fans of tennis, which I am, and I know you guys are, to get the opportunity to really dig into that a little bit was was a real treat and, and something that we're going to, we're all going to learn so, so much Andy's a Newcastle fan. I mean, does does this guy get any better? You know, a man after my own heart, and we love having you as Newcastle fan. We love having you as a British tennis player. We love following you cam. We love following you fuck you. Good luck, the rest of the grass court season that is now upon you. And before I go, if you are listening to this Cam, you got it wrong. Just as I said at the start of the podcast, we all bet against Rafa we all keep you did as well. You were so sure the Djokovic was gonna beat him. And I love that the fact that we've got someone that's in there in the line of the battle on the court with these guys and hearing their opinions, but Rafa has gone and done it well. Will he do it in the final on Sunday and become a 22 time Grand Slam champion. We will find out very very soon. But until next time, I'm Dan Kiernan and we are Control the Controllables