Arthur Fery - Le Wizard

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Daniel Kiernan  00:09

Welcome to Control the Controllables. I'm Dan Kiernan from Soto Tennis academy in Spain, and we teamed up with Macx Tennis Academy in Ireland. We brought this podcast together to entertain, educate, and energize the tennis community through the different lenses of the sport that we love. From Grand Slam champions to those at grassroots level, from sports journalists, to backroom staff. Our aim is truly to get under the bonnet of the tennis world at all levels. So sit back and enjoy the show. Welcome to Episode 126, of Control the Controllables and as you guys are all in Wimbledon fever, we've got a young British tennis player who almost made it to the main draw last week.

Arthur Fery  01:03

The Grand Slams are the highlight of my career so far. I mean, it's so fun being around them playing matches there were different to any other Junior event there was, especially when we're going to which is where I live. So I had a lot of people watching me and people I know. So that was that was great. That was probably the best time in my life.

Daniel Kiernan  01:23

And that was the youngster Arthur ferry. Now we recorded this podcast the week before Wimbledon qualifying. Whereas Arthur found himself one set away at one point a couple of games away from being I believe the youngest British player to ever qualify at Wimbledon. He won his first two matches in qualifying beating players 800 ranking places above him. If you haven't seen Arthur ferry play I advise you do. He plays with a with a freedom. He plays with a flair that some might say has come from the French side of his family. You know, he's a little bit French, but he recognizes himself. As British he was as highly ranked as number 12 in the world, in juniors. And for somebody who was so small as a youngster, for him to make his way in the game. His story is absolutely fantastic. He isn't just finished his first year at Stanford University where he went in as the highest ranked freshman in the country. And there's many insights that Arthur is going to give you through this podcast. So sit back, relax and enjoy. As always, I'm sure there's a little rain break somewhere in Wimbledon, that you'll be able to still keep the tennis fever nice and high. And I'm gonna pass you over to Arthur Fery. So Arthur Fery a big welcome to Control the Controllables How you doing?

Arthur Fery  02:57

Good. Thanks. Thanks for having me, Dan.

Daniel Kiernan  03:01

Take two take one didn't quite we gave it a go a few days ago and realized what is I was thinking What is this noise and after five minutes that asked for what the noise was, and it was the rain in the UK, causing him to put his windscreen wipers on so very apt in the grass court season in England that there's a bit of rain, putting the podcast off. There always is. But no, I'm really excited to get to know you a bit better actually, Arthur and I've seen lots of you over the years as coaches do. Players never quite realized how much coaches pay attention to all the other players as well. And I think where your story's quite fascinating is, you know, are you English? Are you French? You know, what are you you've got? You seem to play with a bit of that French flair in you. And like I said, when we spoke on Friday, I think the first time I saw you, you were age nine, and you were not the biggest player in the world, but you had a you had a big way about you on the court with the skills that we you were showing. So give the listeners your story, your tennis story. Where did it all start?

Arthur Fery  04:13

Yes, I started off at my local club called west side. I think my parents had a big influence in the style of my tennis career. My mom played to a very high level she was totally OTA she was the one who got me into it originally. And yeah, I mean, we were living to next like 50 meters away from from our from a tennis club. So that probably helped to and had a great coach good Alison Taylor, who kind of sorted out all the basics, the foundations technique. And I was I was in normal school until I was after GCSEs I think that was the right choice to make. I finished all those up and then decided to do to give myself two years where I kind of played full time on the ITF Junior tour with two of my coaches craig ville and Benoit Vijay, my French coach. And yeah, I was in school at home and kind of focused on my tennis for those two years. And that worked out pretty well. I thought I'd put improved a lot had a lot more time to play tennis. And then yeah, made the choice to go to college, which wasn't an easy one to make. But yeah, I've been at Stanford for a year now. And I mean, it's going well, obviously, the past year has been the been a bit tricky for everyone. But yeah, hopefully, it'll be in the future be good. And then let's just see where my tennis takes me.

Daniel Kiernan  05:38

So you've told us your life story in two minutes? Where do we go with the podcast now? I'm gonna have I'm gonna have to take you back. My first question actually, is where your parents from

Arthur Fery  05:53

both of them the French but so I was born in France. But then they they came here when I was six months old. So I feel very English by now. I haven't lived at all in France, and apart from summers and kind of tournaments. But I train here and do my school here. I do everything here.

Daniel Kiernan  06:12

So would you class yourself as British?

Arthur Fery  06:16

It's always a tricky one, I'd say. I'd say I've, as the years passed by for more and more English, more more British. But I still definitely, we still speak French at home and my family is French. So yeah, I'd say 5050.

Daniel Kiernan  06:31

Could you play Davis Cup for both? Are you? Are you eligible for France and for for Britain?

Arthur Fery  06:38

I think there's a rule saying if you play for one, you've got to wait four years and then to play for the neck for the other one. But for the foreseeable future, I I would love to play for Britain. I wouldn't see myself playing for France in anytime soon.

Daniel Kiernan  06:52

So you're committed to Britain, Ireland haven't tried to get you out here. Ireland normally get like people from anywhere like in the, for Irish football. So

Arthur Fery  07:03

I haven't got I haven't gotten caught up yet.

Daniel Kiernan  07:05

And in terms of your parents been in the UK, then because I believe your dad's quite strongly associated to French football team. I won't even embarrass myself by saying, the English version is Orient. But I would imagine it's Lorient, or something along those lines. So So tell us about how they ended up in England.

Arthur Fery  07:25

So my dad was working in I think it was in 07, he started a company an investment managing company in in London. So that's why they moved there. I mean, he was working there before as well. But then yeah, it was in 2009 or 2010. Where he he kind of took over that that French club, French football club. So he kind of divides his time between both his work in in London and the football in France, but he can control the football from from London anyways, to that end.

Daniel Kiernan  07:59

So what's what's his role there?

Arthur Fery  08:02

He's the chairman of the club over

Daniel Kiernan  08:03

there. So start who you now support? Do you get to watch them? You got to keep an eye on them or not so much.

Arthur Fery  08:10

I don't follow. I don't follow football too much. I'm more into more into the other sports. But yeah, I mean, if I did, obviously follow the results and watch the games. So yeah, it's good. It's kind of good to have a team to look at.

Daniel Kiernan  08:24

And the question, it's amazing how many people we've had, like already tennis players we've had on the podcast to their parents played, or their parents coached. Or even like having Jamie Murray on and obviously telling this story of Jamie and Andy. Obviously, Judy was a coach, and then they were down the tennis club and they happen to to start playing tennis and picking up balls. And it just seems like such a common story. You know, and obviously, I don't think we've had many parents that have been as high as 200 in the world, you know, so obviously, your mum has obviously had a had a fantastic career herself. You said that she was had an influence on your tennis. How was she with you when you were younger?

Arthur Fery  09:08

Oh, yeah, she helped me so much. At the start, obviously, when I didn't really take it too seriously. She was she was coaching me. She was playing with me in on the weekends and give me advice, whatever. But then I'm most of our own hours, just like off court helping me with my like, program like my schedule. And yeah, she's just a great influence on me. kind of always, not putting any pressure on me. Making sure I'm enjoying it. So yeah, it's not obviously not so much on core anymore because I've got my coaches, but she definitely helps me in other aspects a lot.

Daniel Kiernan  09:45

And what's the one best bit of advice that she gave you when you were younger? That potentially you didn't realize it was a good piece of advice until you started to get into your late teens and when into adulthood,

Arthur Fery  10:01

I wouldn't have one in particular, I would, I would say like, the fact that she never put any pressure on me and always, like, made sure I was having fun whilst playing tennis was important and that I didn't realize how much improvement is linked to having fun on court and enjoying the game.

Daniel Kiernan  10:20

Very good. Can you give us an example? Give us an example of how how do you make somebody have fun,

Arthur Fery  10:25

Play a type of game style that they enjoy. I mean, for me, especially with my personality is very, very key that I enjoy playing. Otherwise, I tend to play a very non like, monotonous game. And that's why I don't excel and I don't have fun either. So for me is always being trying to be creative and do things that you're not necessarily comfortable doing. Not always playing the same, the same bow, same game style. So anyway,

Daniel Kiernan  10:58

And do you think because anyone that hasn't seen Arthur play I strongly recommend you do the what he's saying eaters have a very exciting game style. You know, the the skills really are out of the world. There's a there's a couple of brothers, I don't know if you if you remember them, or whether you came across them, but to Belgium, boys, and Livia, raucous, and Christoph raucous, and they were my age. And when I see you play view, you, you remind me of them, you know, that ability to create shots from almost nowhere, the ability to take it early, fantastic hand skills, how much of that was born, and how much of that was worked on?

Arthur Fery  11:40

Hard to say, That's to say, I mean, you got to compensate for the height somehow. So I've got to find other ways to be effective, is definitely something that I've worked on a lot. I mean, we were playing so many volley games and like, like, start a start or finish a practice, just mess about playing like volley games, or touch or whatever. That's definitely helped. I mean, obviously, there's probably some sort of like, a little bit, which has come from just like Nash naturally. But I feel like you can definitely develop that creativity as well. Like through this through the structure of your training sessions, etc.

Daniel Kiernan  12:20

Is there a danger that you have too many options, though, when you have so many skills?

Arthur Fery  12:26

Yeah, but I mean, if you're clear with how, how you do want to play and how you want to use the skill set that you have, I mean, it's, it's more of a positive than a negative to have too many options. To have loads of options. I feel like it's, it's very beneficial to me anyway. So I don't have too many options. But I feel like coming, I can come forward, I can stay back a little bit. Job shot, whatever. I feel like it's, it helps me be a bit effective as well.

Daniel Kiernan  12:58

Yeah, cuz I guess I had to add Freddie Nielsen on a podcast a couple of weeks ago, we were talking about the French Open and, and, and I was saying, I actually think it could be city passes time, you know, it feels to me like he's the next one to come through. And Freddie seem to think that and I was talking about how he had the variation, and he could do this out of his forehand corner, you could come forward, he can slice he can, you can find different ways. And, and Freddie's take on it was, in his opinion, for him to win a Grand Slam, he actually lead needs to streamline his game a little bit more. And he was almost saying that, as you go up the levels, that identity needs to be absolutely clear. I don't know what your thoughts are on that.

Arthur Fery  13:44

Oh, yeah, I definitely believe in game identity. Like very, very strongly. I feel like if you're, if you're very set with what you want to do, and how you're going to be effective with it, how you're gonna put it on to the court, and obviously, be effective against your opponent. That's so important to me. I feel like when I'm clear with what I'm doing in my head, I feel like I can be very effective.

Daniel Kiernan  14:05

And one question that I'd be really interested to, to look into on that Arthur, as well as before you play a match how much you focused on your game identity and what you're doing, compared to how you're using your skills in order to affect your opponent.

Arthur Fery  14:27

Personally, for me, it could be it could be a mistake from my part, but I I focus a lot on myself, which is not necessarily a good thing. And I have to be reminded that I do need to take into account how the how my opponent plays that's for me anyway, but I know like, I know that the guys are at the top obviously. Simone is just one is a perfect example of that. He almost doesn't focus on himself. He just looks at words across the net and strictly uses that.

Daniel Kiernan  14:59

Yeah, I mean, I think that's a balances now and again, we had we had Evo on the podcast after he after he is run in Monte Carlo. And I thought it was fascinating because he said, first match against I think it was lie of it, she said he came forward 54 times. Next March, He then played against Hurkacz. And he said, against her cuts, he was a little injured, and I felt I could beat him from the back. Then I played Djokovic. And he said Djokovic just loves a target. So I was feeling I had to try and find my way to the net in a different way, then I played golf and and against golf on a didn't come forward, but then all of a sudden, the third set, I found myself coming forward, you know, and, and to see how he was able to adapt his games style, whilst I suppose keeping an identity, you know, as any. And he did say at the end of that, he then said, however, I do know that my game identity is coming forward. And that's something I need to look to do. But just against those four different opponents, I had to find different ways to be able to do that to unlock that particular match that was in front of us. And I just thought that was such an interesting insight into how I guess a top 30 players thinking. Yeah, they're

Arthur Fery  16:14

also different ways to put your game identity on court, as ever said like, it's coming forward, but you could come forward off the return. Or you could hit a short slice and Ghost in like, there are loads of different ways to do it.

Daniel Kiernan  16:27

And how much have you managed to practice with? I guess, a Dan Evans, Andy Murray, you know, guys that have variation in their game as well? Who, who I would imagine you would learn a lot from Have you had that opportunity?

Arthur Fery  16:39

Yeah, I've had I've had the chance in the past year or so to practice a lot with those guys. I did the the hanging partner do tours over two weeks. That was That was so good. I just spent two weeks with the top eight guys in the world pricing. So that was good. Yeah. I mean, I learned a lot from those guys. And can see how they practice how how focused they are. And the intensity is great.

Daniel Kiernan  17:01

Can you share some stories, some some of the, I guess, stories that have had a lasting impact on you from?

Arthur Fery  17:06

Yeah, I guess one that stuck with me was with Jocko which I do, too. The first the first couple of times that I was practicing with him, he was just very, very on it from the first ball, he would be considered like very angry, like, you can just see that he was, it would bother him if you missed an easy ball. Like we were hitting up and down in the first three minutes. If you missed in the net, he would, you could see what bother him. He'd go talk to his coach, no one will be hit without an intention. And yeah, you could just see like, when he's when he's playing, he's super focused. And when he's sitting down and change vans or the in the practice, he's very relaxed. He's kind of taken his mind off the tennis and, and doing something else. But when he's on when he's when he's practicing. He's on it. He knows what he's got to do. He's hitting his targets. Yeah, super focused.

Daniel Kiernan  17:56

And what about off the court? Because I always think we call it at the Academy the other 18 hours. You know, you've got your your six hours of training, and then we call it the daily bill. You know, everyone's got a got a bill to pay. You know, nothing comes for free in this life. So what are you? What are you doing in those other hours? Is that something you managed to get an insight of being around those guys that the O2 as well?

Arthur Fery  18:20

Yeah, a little bit. A little bit. I mean, we were winning the Bible as well. So I guess they couldn't do what they are, they usually did, because they can go outside of the restaurant, or the the tennis facility or the or the hotel. But the Serbian guys were playing a lot of cards, Rafa was just with his team chatting. She I mean, I guess it would change, it would differ for different players as well. A lot of them are just take their mind off tennis. I mean, I assume that they've done this for so many years that they can't just be thinking about tennis all the time. So they find ways to distract themselves, play games, cards, socialize, whatever.

Daniel Kiernan  18:59

Yeah, no. And I would imagine also, they know themselves so well. And by now what makes them tick, how their mind feels, how their body feels, you know, all of those sorts of things. And I want to actually just kind of sidestep over now to talking about your coaches. Quite interesting. You talked about an English coach and a French coach. You know, you still can't meet your mind on that English and French thing. But in terms of obviously, Craig Ville, who's a good friend of mine, and you know, he was on the podcast, and I know you and Craig go back a long way. So how, how old were you when you first started work with Craig?

Arthur Fery  19:34

I think I was maybe nine or 10. Right? Okay. Yeah. Or even even eight maybe it was at certain I just remember the first session we had on the back court certain on the indoor but no, it was yeah, it started off two sessions a week like squats and then we went abroad few times for tournaments. And yeah, just slowly built up. Obviously Ted was taking my my tennis more or more seriously as the years went by? And yeah, it just got to a point where we were traveling a lot for tournaments, practicing doing individuals. And yeah, I mean, I've we've developed a great relationship improved so much in the What is it now? 10 years or so that we've been working together? So yeah, it's great. And then I met Benoit when I was 14 or 15. And we've been kind of working as a three as a trio since then, traveling more with Benoit because Craig's has had a has a few commitments here in the UK, because he's got a family and he's working at Reed he's traveling a little more with with the Alex Alexa. And there's two, two doubles players. So yeah, just kind of mixing my time between them two. And, and so far, it's working pretty well,

Daniel Kiernan  20:52

because it seems like a very mature, way that it's worked, you know, and I know that Craig would say he certainly developed a lot as a coach through that journey, as well as like you've almost grown up together through through that process. But what what's the secret to that working? You're now 1920. So we're talking 1111 12 years, you know, and that's not normal within within a player coach relationship. So what's been the secret to that success?

Arthur Fery  21:24

I think communication is very important. between the player and the coach, always knowing where we're going, not just kind of going through the motions of practice, especially with with Benoit, and Craig, like, as a team, we've always had like a direction to where we go to where we're trying to go and the steps we take to try and achieve a goal. Yeah, and Benoit and Craig have worked very well together to keep in communication to Yeah, keep updated and always know what's what's going on.

Daniel Kiernan  21:58

Yeah, because a little bit like, when a girlfriend splits up with you, I don't know if you've ever had that off, I'm sure you know, there's boy is she look, you've got the Justin Bieber looked on he was get beaver sometimes. The Justin Justin Bieber, Lucky got the French, the French were maybe you haven't had to experience what I did when I was younger. But if a girlfriend moves on from you, and they tell you, they just want to be friends. And you know, but we'll keep in touch. And you know, that kind of stuff. That also happens, I think a lot of players and coaches, you know, where it's like, okay, so someone else is coming on board. But I still want you involved. But you know, we'll keep talking and we'll keep doing the air, you know, maybe we'll come out, you know, I get that at the Academy quite a bit. And it never really happens in reality. So, so so for that kind of three way relationship to work with two coaches and the player. You know, you've mentioned the communication, which must be must be fantastically good. You know, and how does that work? You know, is it here? Is there a lead? Is one of them and lead? Are they working on the same? At the same stage and stem level? You know, how often are they talking? How much are you involved in that? I think it'd be really interesting for the listeners to understand how if things are done well, then communication is strong. That can't be that support system in place. Yeah,

Arthur Fery  23:20

I mean, I think Benoit was traveling a lot more with me, like, so he was saying he was seeing what I was producing in matches. So he had a little bit more information, what I was putting on court. So he was he had, he was like probably like 60-40 him kind of leading the goals in the the ways to improve. And that was communicated through calls. We were doing regular regular calls earlier, like regular Zoom meetings, or just like Facetimes. Yeah, written reports a little bit. And just just texting a lot. Just updates, you know, it's not very, it's not like the longest, the most time consuming thing ever. It's just little updates. See where we are, how we're doing, like, how the improvements are going, what the goals are. Schedule, whatever anything they are, even if it's not like just purely tennis, it's always good to just stay in touch and know what's going on.

Daniel Kiernan  24:24

Yeah, no, well, well done. The three of you. I think it's I think it's great when you have hear stories like that, because there's so many coaches that let their egos get in the way and they forget that it's about the player. You know, and clearly, Craig and Benoit have put you at the absolute forefront you know, which is which is one of the reasons I'm sure why you've had such success. I want you to want to move into your your juniors it felt like from afar. You went quite quickly up the ITF Junior rankings and I guess my my question and almost topic on this is I hear a lot of people say, Oh, it's a waste of time playing juniors wide pledge juniors, what's the point? And then obviously, there's the other side that are quite strong for it. What's your what's your take on that argument?

Arthur Fery  25:13

Well, I mean, where I was, at my level when when was it like 2018? When I started playing juniors, I would not have seen myself take that leap and go straight into the pros. I was still in school. I yeah, I just I play my first few. Great Five so J fives wherever they go down. For me, genius was extremely beneficial I firstly, I enjoyed it a lot. My time there being in a kind of a group of juniors is so financed experience that you don't really get in the pros. Until you get obviously that that top level. And also, it also just, it's kind of the the ATV tours, little brother. I feel like I mean, like, you're still traveling a lot. You're getting used to playing after jet lag far away from home playing three weeks, four weeks in a row. It's kind of Yeah, the life the life is very similar to how it is on tour. It's just obviously the levels very different. And yeah, there is there obviously subtle differences. But for me, it taught me a lot. And I enjoyed my time so much. So that was that was the that was the key.

Daniel Kiernan  26:21

Yeah, I love that you keep going back to enjoyment on that. It's such an important point that you keep making. But yeah, I would be, I guess to give my opinion on it, I'm 100% with you, I think it is I love the way you've put that as well, the little brother of the ATP WTA because it's, it is it's it's it's almost identical in lots of ways, you know, even from the signings, you know, the signings that you have to do from the practice courts, you know, and another big thing for me with juniors and I'm a big advocate of, and I'd love to get your thoughts on this is, if you do then get a chance to play the junior grand slams, there's then a sense of belonging, you know, you're you're rubbing shoulders with the top guys, you might get an opportunity to practice with them, you know, or you're in the same locker rooms, you had just that even getting that journey from the hotel into Melbourne park that that might be different, or getting on the bus in New York to go 40 minutes across Manhattan to get to get into into Flushing Meadows, you know, when you do or if you do then get the chance to do that as a professional player. I, I just think it just then feels right. And I just don't mind sharing a quick story. Like I remember Liam broady, who, again, Liam, who I've had the opportunity to better work with over the years, and I would call a good friend. In my opinion, Liam will be a top 100 player one day, because he's always believed he will be. And I remember Wimbledon a few years ago, he walked in, and it was with Lloyd actually Glasspool, who hadn't had such a successful Junior career, or hadn't played as so much ITF juniors, and there was Dominic Thiem. Hey, broads, how you doing day to day, day to day, and then we walk there and then heaven curiosa gone out each other, you know, and it just, it was so normal for Liam in that environment. Whereas he was 250 in the world, pretty much the same ranking as Lloyd. But but they were always looking at well, who's Lloyd who's this guy? You know? So then there's that whole feeling of belonging and I think sometimes that's overlooked and, and you went after believe Korea high of 12 in the juniors? So you've obviously you've played all of the Grand Slams have you? Yep. Yeah. Tell tell the listeners what that experience is like as a junior. Yeah, no, as

Arthur Fery  28:43

you said, I mean, it's, yeah, the Grand Slams are the highlight of my career so far. I mean, it's so fun being around them. It definitely makes you want to work harder and strive for success. When you see when you see the conditions that they're in. I mean, you're not even the same in the same hotel as them and the fans and not even us like having the same food, whatever. But it makes it gives you a taste of like, What the what it could be like and it definitely makes like motivates you to work to work harder. I mean, I enjoyed my time in in the slams so much playing matches, there were different to any other Junior event there was, especially when we're going to which is where I live. So I had a lot of people watching me and people I know so that was that was great. That was probably the best time in my life that we could turn it on. Unfortunately, we couldn't get it in 2020 which was such a shame. But yeah, I mean for the juniors that's what I think it's I think it's a great stepping stone. Do you see? You see how the pros practice how they play and you see what the life is on tour kind of so you definitely mature a lot when you made semi finals or doubles. Yeah, made semis with with Toby When we did the first one, I made semies with Felix as well. And in Australia, that was as well, unfortunately, we couldn't go any further. Which was a shame we lost in the super tiebreak,

Daniel Kiernan  30:10

right. Okay, but good good memories. And I have to pick up on that offer as well. There's so many difficulties of this pandemic, and there is just a whole bunch of juniors out there, at least you've got your memories from the year before, but that just had 2020 taken away from them, which which would have been probably 50, or 60% of them would have been there only one time that they got the play in the junior grand slams, which can often be the career highlight for people, you know, at the end of the day, you know, not everyone will get to go back and play at the Grand Slams. And I think it's just a point worth making. Just to bring attention to it. You know, the difficulty and obviously, on the larger scale of things, it's people's health is the most important thing, but it must be difficult for those guys that missed that.

Arthur Fery  31:04

Yeah, so tough. So tough. Do Tuesday voters were the ones who kind of got screwed by the 2020. I was lucky because I went to Australia in 2020. Before it all started, right. But a lot of them I mean, I just missed one would in new and US Open but a lot of them also missed Australia. And France shows you the car was very high as well because of it. So. So yeah, it was a shame, especially when we're in being my favorite one I would have I would have backed myself to go deep in that. But yeah, we I mean, I had I had other opportunities. Other things got presented to me that wouldn't have happened if if that normal schedule had gone ahead. I mean, I had a great summer. I was at home as well with friends family. So yeah, there were positives and negatives. Obviously the bigger picture tennis in the bigger picture doesn't tennis didn't really matter that. Personally it obviously did affect me in good and bad ways. Both

Daniel Kiernan  31:59

2000 to 2000 threes. Who were the ones to watch, other than the obvious ones that we've already had a couple that have started to come through.

Arthur Fery  32:08

Yeah. Over stuff on, I mean, you never know. But for the O twos. Obviously stricker's come through a little bit. Dominic Stricker, I paid him at payment French. He wants it. he'll, he'll be good. He's got a great, great game on him. And stays very calm, composed. Over threes. over is a very strong year as well. Carlos obviously already coming through here.

Daniel Kiernan  32:34

Did you see that? Did you Did you see that coming for a while? Did he play many juniors? Yeah.

Arthur Fery  32:39

Carlos has played with a few juniors. I mean, he kind of skipped them. He was only like 4848 to 40 and a genius. He very quickly just went on to the pros.

Daniel Kiernan  32:49

This is Alcaraz for those listening consoles, like res.

Arthur Fery  32:54

He was good. Especially good on clay. Obviously he's size games trying to transfer to other services as well especially in the hard. And was that see? Yeah, it was it was always extremely good. He wanted he want to slam when he was when he was young. There's another good Swiss guy No to Calliandra. Really. He made final French. He can be very good. And the French guys will be good as well. Because oh and and Howard may or they'll be good as well. And you didn't mention Holger Rune. Sorry, Holger as well. Yeah, Holger's is also starting to come through a little bit. Yeah, he's great game is it again, good mentality. So the mentality gets you very far in tennis. That's what I found.

Daniel Kiernan  33:33

When I spoke to him on the podcast. And it was the most amazing half an hour of my life. I couldn't well just in terms of it and I tip my hat to him, but I do have my concerns. And, and I don't mind being honest on this podcast throughout and if Holger does listen to this, and he wants to talk to me about it, I'm more than happy to you know, I'll always be honest about my feelings. And, you know, he said something that really bothered me I said, I said what happens because it was just it was tennis, tennis, tennis, there was nothing other than tennis. You know, there was love tennis. Yeah, forget school, forget social life, forget anything. And I said what happens if you get injured? Or what happens if you come to a point where you you hit a bit of a bit of a difficulty, you know, you have to you have to deal with some adversity, you know, how are you going to deal with that? And he said, I don't get injured. I'm too strong to get injured. There was just a bit of a lack of humility and understanding. I'm 41 years old. I'm nowhere near as good of a tennis player as Holger Rune but I've seen it I've seen it, what this sport does to you. And if you're not careful, it catches you out pretty quick. And pretty much everyone at some point has to deal with adversity, you know, which is why I always like to look for players that have this different success measure. Not just tennis, tennis. and it's you know, and that's what is coming through loud and clear with you offer is, it's not the be all and end all it doesn't mean that you're not going to give your absolute best and throw your life at it. But you're also you're finding happiness outside of the sport, and you've got a life outside of the sport. And you can almost see where the sport fits in the context of your life. And I just think we've Holger, I think you'll make top 100 without a whole lot of concerns. But I think there will come a point where he gets a bit stuck at a level, you know, that might be 20 of the world that might be 30 in the world, it might be 50. And how is he then going to deal with it? Now I'm sure he will find these ways. But it feels to me like currently, his mindset would potentially get stuck at that moment.

Arthur Fery  35:47

Yeah, I mean, I think Thiem was quite similar to him as well. He was extremely focused on tears, practicing whatever, eight hours a day, and had nothing, nothing next to it. I know, I know, the Holger is very passionate about tennis. I've spoken to him a little bit about it as well. And yeah, he's been he's often been criticized for that. To be honest, that's why I asked why I went to college, I'm also not as good as Holger right now. And didn't really want to take that risk, really, and just put all of everything on the line for, for tennis, I had a lot of people telling me I should, I should just go pro and kind of do my best and then see, see whatever happens. I didn't want to take that risk. And I thought that college was a better route. Especially a lot of people were assigned to emerge through college tests as well. So maybe I could do four years and keep evolving and then play after that. Maybe I could just do two and go for it and then finish it off after I mean, we don't know. But for me, putting everything on the line for for tennis to try and make it pro straightaway. I was not mature enough. And, again, didn't think I was going to enjoy it. So

Daniel Kiernan  37:03

fair play. And I think it's been proven time and time again. 18 to 22 are the sticky years. You know where, where people if you don't get through relatively quick and you're not ready physically, mentally, emotionally, game identity, all of these things, you can quite quickly get stuck on the same side. I don't college isn't for everyone, because you've also got to find the right college. So talk us through that process of finding the right college for you. I think you must be the first British male to go to Stanford maybe? Certainly, for a long time. I

Arthur Fery  37:40

Think so for a bit. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I just want to say like, college is definitely not for everyone as well, like some people are ready to go pro and and they do it and fair play to them. I mean, it requires a lot of a lot of confidence to do that. And if they feel like they're ready for it, then they should go for it. But for college, I kind of knew started like 1516. That's that, that that that was what I was wanting, wanting to do. Obviously got put in a little bit into question when I was like, went higher up in the juniors. But I had support from Sarah Borewell, who's an agent at an agent for for US colleges. And my parents helped me so much. I talked to quite a lot of them. And Stanford was the one that offered me the best mix between academics and also having a good program. I felt like I had a good relationship with the coaches there. And yeah, and for me, that was the best option. Obviously, Stanford has got quite a good reputation for academics as well. So that that was what fit into the plan perfectly. For me, having a good backup plan, if tennis didn't like was was to go a different way than I expected. So yeah, I mean, it's usually Yeah, you've just got a fair recruitment. It's it's kind of a long process. You got to do the LSAT, and you got to speak to all of the coaches and stuff, but it's definitely worth it, in my opinion.

Daniel Kiernan  39:07

Whichever colleges we're looking at.

Arthur Fery  39:10

I had UC Berkeley as my second choice, which is California, where a few English guys went. Ben Draper. And then I kind of always wanted to go to California. I don't know why. For the weather playing outdoors and just the lifestyle there. I had, you know, USC and UCLA as well. As my as my third and fourth choices. They were down and two schools down in LA. Not bad choices. Yeah, who also were two very good tennis schools and academics, which is what I was looking for. So yeah, I had a few options and started going to Stanford.

Daniel Kiernan  39:47

For those listening that don't know the universities that Arthur's just mentioned. Our offer was the highest UTR ranked freshman and Go going in. So pretty much he was able to have the choice of, of universities that he could go to, which is, which is really a massive accolade when we're looking at university sport in America. You know, it's not like choosing between gone to. And I don't even want to say any universities, I don't want to disrespect them in the UK. But it's, it's, it really is a big deal and to have such amazing university speaking to you, did you go and visit them or were you not able to with the pandemic,

Arthur Fery  40:29

No that pandemic hadn't started yet. Because 2019, but I was going to and then I basically got my spot. My spot was confirmed at Stanford. I was going to go and visit Berkeley, and Stanford, and maybe a few others. But then my spot was confirmed. And so I was, there was kind of a no brainer for me.

Daniel Kiernan  40:53

It's probably a good thing, you might never have come back because the recruitment trips, it's a bit like a scene from the film The Hangover, you know, you got you know, you go to these go to all these universities, and they're all trying to impress the incoming recruit with with the best looking girls on campus and whatever else there is, that's gonna get them over the line. And and tell us about your first year. How's the how's the experience been? Is it lived up to to what you expected? Sammy, I'm sitting here very jealous. I'm an LSU. Tiger. I loved my four and a half years over there. I'm very jealous that you're at the start. Relative start of your journey.

Arthur Fery  41:33

Yeah, I mean, LSU is a great school as well. We played them actually in NCAA is I don't know. That's right. Yeah. My my year was, it was interesting. I definitely enjoyed it a lot. It was probably very different to what it would have been without COVID. Obviously only spent like, two and a half, three months on campus. So nowhere near the whole year. We literally just had a shortened season. And that was done. But yeah, I mean, the lifestyle was what I was expecting. Great weather we around coaches. Very, very good. Facilities, unbelievable. As as depicted, and yeah, great. I've got a great bunch of guys on my team. And me we did, we did what we could with a shortened season. We only got into campus in March, whereas some of the teams were on campus in December. They were practicing since then. So it was tough. We we managed to win our conference, which was which was good. And then an NC double A's. Finally, we lost to a pretty good Virginia team, unfortunately. But yeah, overall, it was a great experience. And I can't wait for next year because it will be probably a lot better.

Daniel Kiernan  42:45

You've mentioned your quarters over there a couple of times, is it Goldstein, Paul Gould,

Arthur Fery  42:50

horn running coop and our volunteers would Francis Sargent and guy from Kent? He's also okay.

Daniel Kiernan  42:56

And how do they again, for the listeners? How does that work? In terms of communication with Craig and Benoit? Is there a communication loop there?

Arthur Fery  43:07

Yeah. So they're, they're very, very good. They were adamant to keep in contact with my coaches back home. So they were they're very good with that calling Benoit and Craig keeping keeping them updated on the situation out there, what to work on, etc. Because obviously, they didn't know me as well as Craig and Benoit do. So there was element of communication, there was pretty important. And yeah, and that was done. So. So that was good.

Daniel Kiernan  43:34

So for those reasons, I've got a little quiz for you. Not necessarily a quiz, but more, more something I want you to give information for. So if we talk top 25 Division One, US college, we can all you can only give your opinion on the on the men's side. Be good to get a girl side on this as well. What's the level of the number one players in it? You've got to give me an ATP ranking?

Arthur Fery  43:59

Yeah. Top 25 teams, I would say I'd say maybe 300-600. At number one,

Daniel Kiernan  44:08

genuinely. Number two.

Arthur Fery  44:12

depends a lot. But top 25 I'd say maybe 600 to 1000. That'd be pretty accurate. I think.

Daniel Kiernan  44:23

You know where I'm going next number three.

Arthur Fery  44:25

Number three. Again, it just depends a lot.

Daniel Kiernan  44:30

Okay, let's go top 10 Let's go University of Florida,

Arthur Fery  44:33

and Florida, in Florida. Florida. Good but top 10 I'd say I'd say I'd say Tuesday from 600 to 800 and threes maybe 800 to 1000. If not a little bit better for ya pretty similar, maybe end of end of nine hundreds like started 1000s And maybe like 100 to 1200 or something like that. Oh yeah, yeah. usually five and six is maybe a little bit, a little bit less, but they're usually the most important matches as well, which is, which is quite fun usually. So, I mean, overall the level is getting better and better as the years go by, because more and more players are going through college. I definitely say that yeah, one especially one, especially wanting to the best guys as guys, top five top 10 are playing 300 400 level like they come out of college and they're doing well in shadows. Yeah, well

Daniel Kiernan  45:32

Look at Cameron Norrie, not so long ago on the E came out of college, and his ranking was already 250 You know, so he was playing, he was playing a part time schedule, you know, coming out coming out at 250. So I think it's just important for people to know that and to and to recognize that when, when they're listening and I guess you must take a bit of inspiration from that because, you know, male British over the last few years obviously Cameron Norrie, you know, coming coming out and then Paul Jubb when the NCAA is and now has jumped on, I guess you must take a lot of inspiration from that. Yeah, it's

Arthur Fery  46:09

Great to see those guys doing well. Now, I spoke to both them about it. And yeah, it's just, it's just key to keep us keep discipline, you know, you've got a lot of distractions. And if you keep the if you keep the discipline and and training going, then I don't see why why it can't be good. You know, you're playing just as much tennis and maybe tiny bit less and, and having a good education on the side. So it's a great way to improve and also have a back up plan.

Daniel Kiernan  46:37

Yeah, and I think one thing I definitely having a young Brit. And hopefully this is not taken as a negative question. But I think the reality is, over the last 510 1520 years, we've had a lot of good young Brits, you know, that have been at the higher end of, of the junior game, that have really struggled to transition that into the pro game. Now, I have a few opinions on that, you know, I don't think there's enough. So I think I think in general, they get put on a pedestal, you know, they get a lot of things thrown at them. And they feel as if they've already made it and they're already almost protecting something. They know, rather than creating something, I think that's a very different mentality to have. And I think you're already showing that you a little bit different to that. Because the fact that you've turned down funding, and there's no way that you haven't, because at number 12 in the world, you're going to be offered that, you know, so you've turned down funding to go and play professional to go your own way. But how else? How else do you avoid those pitfalls that can come with being a bright future hope in the UK and keep your feet on the ground?

Arthur Fery  47:56

I would say obviously juniors is also a downfall of that because you you kind of think you've made it before going to the pros. And if you go straight to the pros, you You're nothing you know, you you've actually got to get to whatever top 100 And that's the first time you do a top 100 is not in juniors it's in the pros. But I there was one there was one thing that really kind of stuck out to me was that it's easy to get drawn into into the whole LTA. It's easy to get drawn with, like all the coaches to get drawn into getting coached by all of them and and think that that's where you should be, you know, always at the NTC always practicing with them. And for me that was that's not the right way to guys should I tell myself that I should stay away don't be too much at the NTC and stick with Craig and Benoit and, and train with them stay a little low key about it, you know, and not spend too much time with with all the the LTA because I mean the NCAA is a very crowded place and people can usually get drawn into the whole into the whole coaching the whole coaches like for on the court and for me, it was better to stay away from that and stick to the smaller clubs, Roehampton Club, where I train or Westside and yes, they a little more

Daniel Kiernan  49:22

local about I have to push you on that a little bit more. Go for it. What do you mean? What do you mean because we're talking about we're talking about the national governing body, unbelievable facility. Why Why can't we get a culture and environment right for somebody like yourself wanting to go and train and be inspired to train there.

Arthur Fery  49:44

So obviously the OTAs a great help. And they've actually done a very good job about it like telling us you can use these facilities but you don't have to. I feel like it's good to get to go in there, and the hitting planners are great. You can the environment of all the top players being in there is, is good. And two, three times a week is it's a it's a great practice session to go in there. But I also feel like spending too much time in there is not good, because I don't know you. It's not how you got this, I didn't get to 12 to 12 Genius by going to the NTC every day and being coached by the LTA coaches. Right? It was, I was at West Side, kind of in the smaller clubs, just with Benoit racing in the in the cold outdoors. And it's kind of everything's given to you, you know, the NTC. And I think that staying with the things that worked previously is very important. And I've seen a few people just get drawn into the whole bubble of comfort of the NTC and get drowned in that. But the, I mean, the LTA have done a great job, they've, they told us, you know, you can do what you want, we're giving you these great opportunities, and, obviously, I'm using them.

Daniel Kiernan  51:15

Yeah, which is great, because they're, in my opinion, their job is to facilitate development. It's not to be the developers, you know, for that, for that reason, and I don't know exactly what state they're in now or wherever they are. facilitators, whether they're centralized and, and I don't really want to get into that as such, but just, you know, that for years and years has been the problem that people have gone out there and, and developed as tennis players and got to a certain stage and then it's a case of okay, we'll take all of those, put them in an environment that we don't know, that works, put them with a coach that we don't know, connects, and and then that's when problems potentially happen. You know, and I think, whereas if they're there to facilitate, there's resource there, there's expertise to dip into then but you have to go your own way and like you saying, have that hunger, you know, we talk France we talk about Germany, you're talking about all of these different hotbeds, you know of producing players Federation's don't really produce tennis players, you know, and I personally don't think it should be their job to, you know, so it sounds it sounds to me, like the way that you've done it is perfect. You know, I'm sure you get fantastic resources and access of good experts and good people that you can go into good hitting partners, but then you can come out and ultimately build your own career. It's your career.

Arthur Fery  52:44

Yeah, no, you put it you put in the great way. They're saying that they should be the facilitators, not the developers. Yeah, that's the way it should be. But I've seen I've seen examples where it's gone different ways. Yeah, it's gone into it.

Daniel Kiernan  52:55

It is absolutely. My last question. Before we go into our quickfire round, you're the first guest that I'm asking this question to, but from this day forwards, it's going to be asked to every guest. Okay, the podcast. Yeah, you are, this is a special moment. Unless you completely flunk the answer. And then I might have to rethink whether i Wherever I ask other people, our podcast is called control the controllables it's it's a big philosophy of mine. It's something that's very, very true to my heart. What does control the controllables mean to you?

Arthur Fery  53:34

Control what you can you can't control the conditions you can't control how windy it is country control how the ball bounces, but ultimately you're dealing with the same thing that your opponent is across the net. And I mean, control the controllables you think of one thing, it's the surf for me, but you've also got a you're dealing with the same conditions as the guy opposite net and you've got to make do with with what you've got that day and that's what you can do. You've got to find a way to make it work. That's what brings me when I hear control the controllables

Daniel Kiernan  54:10

very good I might keep the question you might have just passed and and quick fire round you're ready for our quick fire. clear courts or hardcourts?

Arthur Fery  54:20

Yeah ready? Hard

Daniel Kiernan  54:24

forehand or backhand

Arthur Fery  54:26

Forehand

Daniel Kiernan  54:27

Serve or returned.

Arthur Fery  54:29

Return

Daniel Kiernan  54:30

Roger or Rafa.  Roger,  Favorite Grand Slam?

Arthur Fery  54:35

Wimbledon

Daniel Kiernan  54:36

and what about the Wimbledon title

Arthur Fery  54:40

Novak

Daniel Kiernan  54:41

and female

Arthur Fery  54:44

I'll say I'll say Ashley Barty

Daniel Kiernan  54:49

ATP cup or Davis Cup  ATP cup. Should players be allowed an injury timeout during the match during the match? No, I agree. You're the first player or the second player to say that really but I agree I complete

Arthur Fery  55:06

as in like if they're if they're like, like a like a medical timeout medical timeout Yeah, right. No, they shouldn't be another

Daniel Kiernan  55:14

odd or no add add one rule change you would make in tennis.

Arthur Fery  55:23

Got a seven volume first set.

Daniel Kiernan  55:26

I like it. And who should our next guests be on the podcast?

Arthur Fery  55:31

Have you got Andy on?

Daniel Kiernan  55:33

We want Andy badly, but I don't know how. I mean, despite the fact that I've got a few wins over Andy on the doubles court. That's my only that's my only in. But he's,

Arthur Fery  55:43

he got over.

Daniel Kiernan  55:45

I think he's avoiding me. I think he's there's like five weeks in a row back in the back in 2003. When he was 12. And I was 22. Before before he could even look over the net. He was playing any red balls? Uh, yeah, I've been unable to get him so far. But so you're not allowed to see him. That's an ongoing hope. You've got to say someone that you have the capabilities of bringing on to the show who I do. Yeah. It's part of the contract.

Arthur Fery  56:15

Phase, Gil?

Daniel Kiernan  56:17

Is he is he got something to give me Felix is he does?

Arthur Fery  56:22

He's very different to me. Let's get Felix old. A fellow too. Yeah. Feeling with the pandemic as well.

Daniel Kiernan  56:30

Felix is being called you're being called. My very, very last question. I know that I said my last question. Controller controllers means a lot to me. And, and I think one of my biggest things is around success measures. And I always think that people can they measure their success on things that aren't in their control. So then, because of that, that kind of destined for failure, and destined for, for for difficulty and challenges and all of these things. So what would your success measures be? Over the next few years of things in your control?

Arthur Fery  57:13

It's tough to measure them, I guess. You can't Can you can't control results. Can you not really throw? In my I mean, I guess in the improvements, and how, first percentage, first of average speed, you can't really measure that you can't really measure these things. But like, how consistent how consistent you are the net on the first volley or you can control that how, how many back end lines, how many baton lines for me is especially it's part of my game, how many by hand lines? I'm going to hit that close to the line?

Daniel Kiernan  57:49

Yeah. But you've got you've got very tennis specific and I think, right, you're thinking about and I guess for me, what if I, if I go to this conversation, I've I think one of my biggest things that I've taken from this from you, which I think the listeners should and will take from ultimately, you've had enjoyment at the very top of your list in everything you've said, it's like, well, I'm going to enjoy it, you know, and if you can maintain that level of enjoyment, that, that desire to have fun out of the court and express yourself, I guess for me, I would have those down as things that are in your control, that that are measures of success, you know, because you, you continue to do that, as you've done so far. I have no doubt that the result of that the byproduct of that is you'll continue to have lots of success on the court.

Arthur Fery  58:48

Yeah. Then I I'd say school, getting getting good grades. I mean, that's, that's important for me, obviously don't like school too much. But it's got to be done and something that I want to improve

Daniel Kiernan  59:03

as this because your mom's gonna listen to this podcast,

Arthur Fery  59:07

she's knowing this is me.

Daniel Kiernan  59:14

Off, it's been a pleasure getting to know you a little bit better. And, you know, wish you the best of luck the next few weeks, but also also the next few years. And I hope that our paths cross out there at tournaments very soon.

Arthur Fery  59:26

Thanks so much, Dan. Thanks for having me.

Daniel Kiernan  59:28

Talk man. I, again, thoroughly enjoyed that conversation. I feel I feel like a very lucky individual to be speaking to all of these amazing people from from the youth that were watching come through to the old of people that have seen their been there and done it. And unfortunately, I don't have Vicki by my side today. Due to many podcasts and many things going on. We haven't been able to been able to cross paths to discuss this one. Before getting out in time, because he is stuck with me today. And I don't want to keep you long. But I just want to talk to you a little bit about something that really stood out for me during the podcast. And that was Arthur wanting to play tennis, the way that he likes to play tennis, because he's entertained by tennis. And isn't that just a lovely way to look at the sport, I think we can sometimes get so caught up in where we're going, and how we're going to get there, and what the goal is that we're trying to achieve. Whereas actually, just that ability to say, well, actually, my way, my identity, my system, my processes, is to play this way. And I enjoy that. And that brings absolute joy to me to go and express myself like that on the tennis court. Then as I said, at the start of the show, if you ever get a chance to watch Arthur play, you absolutely should, you know, he's going to bring a lot of joy to a lot of people over the years. He has a bright future ahead. He does it in the right way. He's incredibly skillful. And he puts all of those skills onto the tennis court to bring a real excitement now, but that comes through because that's who he is. That's who are for 30 years. And it's really important for all coaches listening for all parents listening, we need to know who our kids are, you know what makes them tick. And then we need to encourage them to fly in the way that they want to fly. And I certainly believe Arthur as well on his way to doing that. But even if he didn't, he's going to take a hell of a lot from this experience. listening to him talk such a mature young man and author if you're still listening at this point, I want to say a big, big thank you for you coming and brighten my day up. And I'm sure brighten up many people's day who have listened to this. As for the podcast, I hope all of you continue to enjoy it. And I hope you're enjoying Wimbledon on your televisions. What a match. That was Andy Murray. I can't not mention it. This is coming out now on Tuesday. And Monday night first day of Wimbledon. And and I have to pick up on what he said in his interview. And I have to hold my hands up. I've been guilty of this on a podcast said I think this might be Andy Murray's last Wimbledon. Now, who am I to say that? You know, and I take that back, Andy, as I'm sure many journalists do and shudder, because it's up to Andy how he goes out in the game. And again, that's simple message. He wants to play tennis. He loves playing tennis. And for me that big takeaway I've taken from Arthur is also linked to what Andy said last night. And we're all behind you. You play tennis as long as you want. You've earned that right? Keep doing it and keep that smile on your face. I want to just read out one review. We've had quite a few reviews since the last podcast so thank you for that. Maureen B said it's the first ever review. But the latest pod is just fabulous. I felt I was listening in to a group of people having a chat about their past experiences at Wimbledon. It was honest, authentic and engrossing. And I think there's so many people have reached out on the on the British grasscourt tennis podcast that we did with our amazing panel of 10x and current players. I think it was incredibly authentic. They spoke from their heart. They shared stories. They've continued and shared and continued to share stories on our WhatsApp group. And it really was lovely. And if you haven't listened to that I fully recommend you go back and listen to episode 125. As with the rest of our amazing podcasts, please please keep sharing them. We have Dr. Jim lair, coming to you next week. I've had that conversation. It's a must listen, I promise you. It's a must listen that you share with all of your kids with anybody that's involved in the sport. If you don't know who Dr. Jim lair is, it's L E H R. I fully recommend you google him you look him up. You see all of the things he's done, not just in the sport, but in performance psychology, and we are very honored to have him on the podcast. So that will be coming out next week. But until next time, I'm Dan Kiernan and we are Control the Controllables