Francesca Jones - Northern Grit

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Daniel Kiernan  00:09

Welcome to Control the Controllables. I'm Dan cannon from SotoTennis Academy in Spain, and we teamed up with Macx Tennis Academy in Ireland. We brought this podcast together to entertain, educate, and energize the tennis community through the different lenses of the sport that we love. From Grand Slam champions to those at grassroots level, from sports journalists, to backroom staff. Our aim is truly to get under the bonnet of the tennis world at all levels. So sit back and enjoy the show. Welcome to Episode 142, of Control the Controllables and today's guest is somebody I've been wanting to get on for a long time.

Fran Jones  00:59

Many people have treated me as if I was as if they were stepping on glass so as if I were very fragile and nervous, nervous to push me nervous to get me to try things. And that is the complete opposite of who I represent.

Daniel Kiernan  01:17

And those of you that didn't know, Fran Jones before 2021 certainly will know her after she qualified at the Australian Open. Fragile, she is not. Tough, she is. A girl from Bradford from the north of England, who has dealt with adversity from the very start of her life as she was born missing a finger on both hands, and missing three toes. This isn't who defines Fran Jones, Fran Jones is on a journey. She's 153 in the world WTA after a successful Junior career, she's progressing at a fantastic rate. And after listening to her, I'm sure you will have no doubt we're going to see lots more of Fran over the next few years, having lots of success on the court, but also bring an inspiration to us all off the court. Here is Fran Jones. So Fran Jones a big welcome to Control the Controllables how're you doing?

Fran Jones  02:23

Thanks for having me. Yeah, I'm not too bad thanks. I'm just sat at the NTC right now. And it was very dark outside. So we're trying to keep the spirits up by speaking to you.

Daniel Kiernan  02:33

While I while I hope we can, I think I'm really looking forward to a couple of Northerners, you know, be a little bit misplaced in this sport in the UK, but hopefully a couple of Northerners that are doing all right. And I think the first thing that says Like you say if people could see you now, you know, the backdrop of indoors NTC. You know, it's not all a glamour life.

Fran Jones  02:57

No. And I have spoken to him about these particular walls as they do kind of seem to resonate those of a prison. So it's not, it's not the best look that you've got, but hey, at least it brings more the focus to me.

Daniel Kiernan  03:11

Absolutely. And I think my first thing I mean, Fran, just as we just talked about off air, this is 142 episodes of this podcast we've done which has been amazing. Just everyone's story. Everyone's got their own different stories. And I think I want to get into you your story how you got into tennis, but But starting with you've had a little bit of a breakthrough year 2021 certainly at the start of the year, you know, you came on to everyone's screens, but even looking how the year's progressed. If we forget the grass court season for a minute, bloody grass got in the way, but everything else you've had a pretty consistent year. What's your reflections on 2021?

Fran Jones  03:55

Yeah, look, I mean, first of all, congrats on your on your amount of episodes, that's awesome. But I think from my perspective, I wouldn't call it you know, I know the terminology of a breakthrough year is used quite often in in sport, but I never like to call it as breakthrough because I think especially in unless it's something extreme, especially in my situation, I just see it as another year. That's you know, we've made progression. And I think you know, of course the results of grass weren't what they would have wanted them to be but I was in isolation for almost seven I think it finished seven days prior to grass. So I went into Wimbledon with practically no training and that did unfortunately have the have a little bit of an effect on the remaining tournaments, that said I did put a good performance in against Coco, who just come off the back of the quarter-finals of Roland Garros, and it was a very tight match where I thought that we could go either way. So I try and look back on that and at the time I was you know very frustrated and upset but I think after the year that I had to that point I, I wanted to kind of realize that look, you know, when you pass quallies at your first Grand Slam you've ever played, your expectations can be very high. But when I look at the year, I played two out of four of the main draws, and I've, you know, managed to make all the thought of the Grand Slams as well because injuries can be, can be a problem sometimes. And I think it's not, you know, I have ended the year early. And that was kind of my choice. But I think what we have played, we've done with the right mentality. And I think now, if anything, I just feel I've learned so much and can't wait to execute what I've learned next year.

Daniel Kiernan  05:41

And you mentioned there, Fran, expectation. And I think it's it's something that we've talked loads on the podcast about this, like different different players, coaches, agents, whatever it is, it can be the killer for a lot of players, if expectation rises too much, you know, the amount of times, I know, as a coach, I've coached a player, they've beaten a seed in the first round, this is on a micro level, and then the next day, their expectations are high, they're not quite feeling the ball the same. What are some of the strategies that you and your team use to manage that expectation?

Fran Jones  06:18

Two things I'd say, firstly, I don't, I don't struggle from the expectation around me, because the expectation I put on myself is higher than anyone would ever put on me. I think if there was one expectation I'm learning to try and manage its my own and the pressure that I put on myself, because like my perfectionist trait is, you know, is a big part of who I am. And it can work to your advantage, but it can also work against you. So I think that's something I'm definitely trying to learn, you know, continuously about. And I think the second thing is, you know, at the end of the day, like, I try and be humbled, as humbled as I can, and I think when when you're humbled, you respect every player on the other side of the net, and I'm extremely competitive, so to me whether it's a seed or not a seed I want to win the match either way. So I think learning, you know, learning about what being humbled is and how, how you use that to your advantage by always respecting everyone, the same whether they play tennis, they don't whether they, you know, they work, what might be considered a standard job, or work as the biggest banker in the city, like, everyone deserves the same amount of respect. And, and so for me, that hasn't been something, especially, you know, in the last last season, that's sure with too much.

Daniel Kiernan  07:43

But where did those are, when I hear those values, I always relate them a little bit to to the North. And I'm not saying that that is that you have to be from the North to have those values. But But I do think traditionally, Northern families, you know, and I said this to you, off air when I heard your accent, I hadn't quite clicked in the full North with you. But it came through very loud and clear. And all of a sudden, like I said, I liked you a lot more. But But are they where do those values come from? Is that? Is that something that you you've always had? And, and I guess this is probably the point where we talk about you getting into tennis, you know, when you started tennis, your family upbringing? Where did all of that start? And what impact has that had on the person that you are today?

Fran Jones  08:34

Yeah, I mean, you're definitely right. It comes from the Northern roots, I'd say. I mean, I grew up on a farm in middle of nowhere. And my parents weren't farmers, but they, they bought this property and then I think when you you know, when you grow up, up North, you don't see too much glamour let's say, and so my whole family has worked very hard for what they've, what they've got. And my parents, I'm extremely fortunate, you know, they do really well for themselves. But I think irrespective of who they are now, what they've done to achieve their you know, their current accomplishments, is they've, they've worked really hard and they've given it everything and always had that fighter mentality always been greedy, always wanted more. And so I think it definitely originates from there, you know, my, my, that sort of view that I have on things but I'd say you know, when when you also travel so much with tennis and you go to countries like the South American countries where I spent a lot of time and you know, you see these these kids who come up to you and they've barely got a racquet but they're so excited to be on the tennis court and, you know, they can barely afford to have breakfast lunch and dinner yet they've still got a smile on their faces. And I've always enjoyed going to South America because of that, you know, they, they've faced adversity on a daily basis, you know, people that don't, they might wake up to death on the front doorstep. And it's, it's the norm for them, but yet somehow they learn to, to view life with with a smile. And I think tennis, you know tennis players, hopefully and, and will, in the future, really appreciate the fact that we do get to travel to the ends of the Earth. And not only is it from my upbringing, but also the observations I've made, since traveling, especially of course, on the on the ITF tour, you, you really should see what's around you and open your eyes.

Daniel Kiernan  10:55

And that's so much bigger than what anybody achieves on the tennis court as well, you know, and that ability, I think, for all of us that are lucky to be in this sport, certainly if we're fortunate enough to travel and see the world, there is no better education, you know, and, and it's something I think is often not talked enough about one of the real qualities of, of getting into the sport, I think a lot of people go along this journey, and it's like, Hey, I'm investing all this money, and we're investing all this time. And if I don't make money as a tennis player, then it's been a waste of the investment. Whereas I couldn't think anything more different than that, and to hear you say those things, and I can see in your face that they genuinely, you know, mean something to you, and you have that picture of that little kid, you know, and those things are so highly motivating. share one story that had the biggest impact on you from traveling.

Fran Jones  11:56

Oh, wow. And I'd say I played 2 15ks when I was like, I'd like to say 2018. Don't quote me on that. But I did win one of them. So it'll be somewhere on that profile I'm sure, but. I went to a village called Via Maria, in Argentina. And I couldn't quite believe where I found myself and we got to the airport, which was three hours away. And this taxi driver which we'd organized a taxi driver to pick us up and of course in Argentina, you know, a three hour taxi's the equivalent of a 10 minute taxi in London. And this man picked us up and you know, when you go to these places, I'm fortunate enough that I speak Spanish. But if I didn't I'd be even more tentative around these people. And he's picking us up and I'm thinking you know, we have no idea who this guy is but he has a quite a humble look about him, a very welcoming face and seemed really excited that, you know, these two foreigners were going to be in his village. And so anyway, he drives us to the hotel and I was like how much do I owe you, a fair amount. I paid him for the trip. And then, you know, he says, Well, when are you playing and I asked, you know, maybe Tuesday I got there about four days before. Well, are you not going to go to the club before he says you know, and I said yeah, we'll go everyday to train and then when I play my match, I'll play my match. Alright, okay, well just message me when you when you're gonna be playing and I'll take you to train and I'll tell you to the match. So I messaged him, I thought, okay, let's, let's give it a try. I wanted to have faith in in the person I didn't want to judge. 9am he takes me to the club. He says when do you finish practice, in about an hour and a half. Okay, I'll take you back. So, finish my practice at about 11. And he's there to pick me up takes me back to the hotel. And how's that? Okay, we're going back this evening. So hopefully we'll see you around, and he says What time do you need picking up? Same thing happened every single day, every single day. I won the tournament so we got to the final. And on the day of the final. He was there five minutes before we'd agreed and took me so when I finished the final, he says, I'm so happy for you like, it's been a pleasure. And I said okay, well, you know, how much do I owe you for all trips? And we're talking about 10 minute trips there and back. And he goes, Owe me? It's my pleasure you don't owe me anything. And so at this point, I'm thinking Hold on. I feel a bit uncomfortable here. Like I should pay him for these trips around. I'm not sure if he's, if I'm being too trusting here and something might happen later where he and he said I don't want a penny off your chest. Okay, well, let me let me take you and your family out to dinner because that's the least I can do. I've won the tournament. You know, I want to take you to a nice dinner, found this one restaurant based on a vineyard that was phenomenal. And I took them there and we finished and he said that's the best meal on my life. And it was him his two daughters and his Mum. Unfortunately his wife and passed away from cancer and to this day we're talking about three years now. I message him or he messages me once a quarter to check in. Yeah, I think the relationship I mean, I have goose bumps now. But if one day, there's something I can do to move his family to a better place, I will for sure.

Daniel Kiernan  15:23

Over the 142 episodes, there's been a few goosebump moments. And you've just given me another one. I've got what a lovely, lovely story. Yeah, we'll have to get him on the podcast.

Fran Jones  15:39

Yeah, I can certainly translate for him.

Daniel Kiernan  15:44

That's amazing. Yeah, what an amazing story. Thanks for sharing. And I'm gonna just take you back a bit. Bradford? Yeah. Not a not a tennis hotspot. As such, although, although actually, a couple of good friends of mine when I was growing up, Felix Jagger, you know, Felix Jagger? Okay, but they were Bradford boys. I'm sure they were so going back in the day. We used to. We used to play all the Northeast training squads and, you know, coming across. So how does how does a girl get into tennis in Bradford? How did that start?

Fran Jones  16:25

It's your typical story, that's sure or I don't think it is anyway. Well, I was never sporty. So I loved a little bit of capris. When I was younger, I loved sticky toffee pudding at the weekend. And then sport wasn't my thing. I wasn't really that interested in it. I did have football shirts, if anything, but it wasn't it wasn't my thing. And so I I was driving home from school, my dad picked me up and my brother and sister in the car. He just picked them up, because they live in Manchester and brought them to do the school pick up on a Friday evening. And we're driving driving home. And I wanted to stop by this bakery because I wanted to get like a cornflake cake. And in front of the bakery was was a tennis club. And it so happens to be that my dad was talking to us in the car about how he really needed to get rid of us for the summer. Because you have to work and couldn't do with having us running around the office. And we needed to get out of the place from about nine to five in whichever shape or form he could possibly imagine. So we're driving to this bakery and we see the club, and on the club is a huge banner on the front of the club saying summer camps nine to five. And I kid you not didn't get my cornflake bun, the guy, Dad swerves straight into the parking without asking us if we had any interest in tennis, I'd never picked up any sort of racket in my life, let alone anything but a football. Then all of a sudden next thing I know, three weeks later, 9am you know, with my hair everywhere, barely opening my eyes got a tennis racket in my hand and supposed to hit this yellow thing that over a really mini net. And that's kind of how, how it began. And, and in terms of, you know, the way the way the relationship somehow progressed. I think I my parents wanted to get me into an extra curricular activity because I wasn't the fittest of kids, they thought it'd be a bit a bit of a good move for them to have me doing some exercise. And I started going once or twice a week. But at that point, due to some physical differences that I have we we had to check it in with the doctor and the doctor had at that point decided to tell me that I wasn't going to be able to play tennis and my parents had to pull me out of the summer camp and any extracurricular activity I was doing at the tennis club needed to be forfeited to show my parents I don't really want to repeat the words that my dad said to the doctor. But we did leave very quickly. And I basically was spurred on to give it a go and commit a bit more until we built up the amount that was practicing and, and then ended up in Spain a couple of years later.

Daniel Kiernan  19:22

Isn't it amazing how like sometimes these and what was amazing there as you spoke, as you said nine to five, something happened at the NTC but there was like a shining light. I don't know if you saw it, but it was but it was like bizarre because that was such a shining light moment I guess as this this thing.

Fran Jones  19:41

Automatic lights turned on then. So yeah,

Daniel Kiernan  19:45

It was almost like they knew this story because that moment and and you mentioned and and we talk about having adversity and so many people do have adversity to deal with in their life. And this is absolutely not the a defining moment or the defining thing for Fran Jones, you know, I think your your ability to deal with adversity and even just I'm loving talking to you, 20 minutes in, your energy, your your hallway, your positive outlook, but, and I hope I get this right. But you were diagnosed with extra-dactal ectodermal dysplasia

Fran Jones  20:26

Good effort, because you know what, I just use the abbreviation So fair enough to you.

Daniel Kiernan  20:29

EED, So for what that means tell the listeners what that's meant for you you've used the terminology, physical difference. And I guess from there, I'd love to obviously delve into that a little bit more.

Fran Jones  20:44

Yeah, I mean, I was born with four fingers on each hand, all webbed together as were my toes. So there were I couldn't disconnect them in any way. I've got three toes on my right foot and four on my left, and there's quite a bunch of symptoms, but I suppose those are the main ones that are visible let's say, and yeah, I was I was born like that. And I've gone through, you know, at least over 10 operations, if not maybe a little bit more, but definitely double digits. And, yeah, I mean, it's just part of who I am. And I use physical differences, because many have referred to it as a disadvantage or deficit. And that's certainly not how I view it.

Daniel Kiernan  21:32

No, no, absolutely. And that it's certainly not a label. And I think the bits that I would love to hear a bit more about is, because I don't think we hear this from you. You know, I've heard I've listened to a lot of interviews with yourself and certainly during Australian Open, but what effect does that have on you when it comes to technically and being able to play? And how have you then overcome that?

Fran Jones  21:58

Yeah, and, you know, what, that's a great question. I'm glad you've asked. Because a lot of the focus just tend to be on kind of the visuals, but not necessarily the functional. And, look, I mean, my racket is completely different to a lot of peoples' I have the grip shaved down and Wilson have been a fantastic sponsor. And they've, they've always tried their best to adapt to me, the weight is very, very light, in comparison to the vast majority of the tour, so I play at about 282 grams. In terms of the way that it affects my training, I think the big the two things where I felt a few moments where I felt the biggest effect one would be the fact that many people have treated me as if they were stepping on glass, so as if I were very fragile and, nervous, nervous to push me nervous to get me to try things. And that is the complete opposite of who I represent, which I hope you know, is someone with balls, I think, you know, you've got to take risks in life, you've got to have a little bit of fun, you know, not be a muppet and go too far. But of course give things a try and then and so I felt in the past that fitness coaches especially have been very tentative around me and and that's not never what I've asked for. So I only really started doing weight training in 2018 when I hired a fitness coach who is still currently part of my team, Roberto Bavatorri, he was the first trainer or fitness coach, however you want to refer to it, S&C coach who who really thought, Okay, I'm going to tackle this, and I'm going to try and figure out ways that we can better Fran's training without being you know, so in the way we go about our day isn't doing, you know, really basic stuff, which didn't even, didn't even mean we picked up a weight at all throughout my session at one point. And I'm very thankful that he kick started that approach with me. And I think if there's a moment where I've really tried to pick things up to, let's say, push forward, it's now. I really decided I took I made a tough decision in September to finish my season and tackle a nine week training preseason, which is why I'm currently sat at the NTC. I did a study with Joan, who is working worked has worked with Joe for the last seven years with Johanna Konta. And Joan has collaborated with my physio Mario and Roberto to really identify how we play our cards. And I think, you know, we've we spent a couple of weeks really trying to figure out which route we have to take. And now we're starting to get into the thick of it. And we have identified some particular areas where we have to, you know, it's like any athlete, I'm not going to say that we have to do more or work harder, I think every single athlete has, has their package. And within that package, they figure out which item they have to pick up the most, let's say which ingredient, they need to use the most to make their dish, that little bit tastier. And that's exactly what we spent our time doing and understanding biomechanics to my body. And now we're hopefully strengthening those those areas identified.

Daniel Kiernan  25:55

Really good. It hits me as well that and I'm a big believer in this, that there's always there's consequences to, to everything, and that everything that happens in life, there's, there's consequences that we don't always see immediately. So, and what's coming through loud and clear, and I followed you for years, you know, seeing you in the juniors is a consequence of one, your upbringing, but to your challenges that you had when you were younger, is that you have developed a really tough mind and tough resilience, which, which is a massive strength of yours as a tennis player. Now, as someone who grows up and plays and everything's okay, and they don't have to deal with things, we had Xavier Malisse on the show, and he said, like, I never lost, I never lost and then all of a sudden, I went and played on the tour, and had no idea how to lose I couldn't, I hadn't developed those skills, you know. So I guess almost a bit of a reframe, in it, it seems like it's also an advantage to you, that you've that you've gone through this because of how your now mind is and your outlook on life, and how you're now able to really kind of run with this mental strength that you've got.

Fran Jones  27:17

Well, thank you, thank you very much. I, you know, I certainly feel like I've had a different experience to the standard 21 year old now or 10 year old at the time, when I first moved to Spain, I definitely do try and utilize my mental strength to the best of my advantage, especially in the cook, whether that's training or competition. And there's still I'm sure my, my psychologist will say that there's still a lot more we can develop. And that is what I'm out here to do. I'm here to develop all my strengths to the best of their ability and more show. And if I remember correctly, Billie Jean King actually said to me, make my weaknesses adequate. And that, you know, is something that we've really focused on. So of course, you know, mental strength is what I consider to be one of my big my big go tos. But look, I think there's part of that comes from my experience, from you know, the things I've had to go through from from childhood but also it comes from playing tennis. I mean, playing tennis, you got to be you've got to be mentally strong if you really want to get to where, you know, most players aspire to be and, and certainly to where I want to be which is, which is a hefty, hefty objective. I, I know that I have to be, I have to be nails. Look, I don't think I've ever learned how to lose either. I'm still learning how to you know really deal with that and and see the flip side of it. And there are a lot of lessons that I've had to obviously go through over over the years I've played tennis and some of them I will not learn enough from them yet. And I'm certainly still a sore loser and just recommend to you Dan that if you do ever see me lose, avoid me for about 24 hours to 48 hours.

Daniel Kiernan  29:24

And I wouldn't expect anything different Fran from a great competitor. You know, it's not, the losing is never easy. One of my last questions because I'm conscious of time I want to I want to get into a couple more things. But one question that I do have, going back to Australia 2021, people in the tennis world now Fran Jones, Fran Jones has had a good Junior ranking. You know, certainly British people will know people will know Fran Jones, but all of a sudden when you qualified at the Australian Open, there was a different, it certainly seemed like there was a different appeal, there was a more global appeal. The story was big. Now if we're being brutally honest, that that story wouldn't have been as big. If it wasn't for your physical differences, you know, if, if somebody of 19, 20 years old has qualified at the, at the, at the Australian Open, okay, but because of what you had to go through speaking to you now, I'm just wondering, was that a positive for you? Or was that almost too much for you, and some of those messages that were coming, were a little bit kind of pity messages that you're like, Screw you guys, I don't need any pity here, I'm on my own journey. How? How did you take all of that at that time?

Fran Jones  30:50

Look, I'm aware that, you know, as you say, it would be a different situation if I didn't have those physical differences. But what I would say is, I don't want to use it as a label, I want my mental strength to be seen as my mental strength, not my mental strength to be seen as a result of, it's what I've built over the years, and it's who I've created, I've created this person and, and there's, you know, there's so many things about me that I need to, you know, continue developing and, you know, keep learning, I'm still young, and from a personal and a professional. I have a I have a hell of a lot of growing to do. But I think for me, it's about making sure that it isn't seen as a pity story, it's more seen as a kick up you arse story. But so. And I don't mean that at all. And in a derogatory way to anyone, we all go through our, our really tough moment in life and our challenges, those barriers that we can find ourselves standing in front of, but I think the important thing is to make sure you don't limit yourself in front of those barriers. And, and keep, keep trying to find a way, you know, to get over it, keep trying to find a way to jump over it to run, run through it, and to climb on the sides of the wall. And, and slowly but stupidly find that way to get around it, you know, there's there's many different ways that you can come at a barrier. I say I'm someone that's just, you know, kind of had like a Ron Weasley moment running into the platform nine and three quarters going straight at it and just giving it everything that certainly might be my approach, but I didn't find it difficult, I found it if anything else I found it gave me more motivation. My, my real driver for what I do is to impact impact myself in the fact that hey, Fran, pat on the back mate, you've done you've done a decent job here, you've, you've proven to yourself not to anyone else, you've proven to yourself, you've got this, you've got this in the bag, and you can do big things here. And then for the, I guess, for the platform to impact other people to impact those little kids can but you know, sat in hospitals sat at home, being limited by whoever and whatever, like we are born we are dealt our set of cards, whether that's upbringing, whatever it is, we're dealt are set up God. And life is the game that we have to play. And we have to understand how we use our cards to really win that game. And I'm still learning I'm still figuring out I've certainly not won the game, nowhere near it, but I'm making those steps and I'm playing those cards as wisely as I can on each time and whenever the card fails me I'll pull out another one and play the next the next kind of hand so for me, it's it's really pushed me forward to keep, keep finding those new levels within myself and you know, at the time, it was, it was definitely consuming I had I didn't have an agent at that point I'm now working with Octagon thankfully because I definitely needed support in that it was difficult to manage. But I'm very lucky in the fact that John Bowland at the LTA was absolutely phenomenal for me and saved me loads and loads of time. And we managed to put together you know, a couple of days where I could work with the media at that point and and try and get the message across that the revenge act for what I was told it's really just more of a challenge that any you know, any human could could partake in.

Daniel Kiernan  34:57

Well, I'm inspired now. I was inspired then everybody listening will be inspired. And I'm just so pleased that that's how you see it. Because, you know, the, I guess a fear that I had. And, and to be very clear, that was where my question came from just listening to the way you'd spoken about a couple other things, I thought maybe that was the way that you would have taken that, you know, you didn't want to get the attention for that. But I think the way that that has been put across, is, is all the better, and we're all all the better for hearing these stories. You know, and I think, you know, kicking, kicking us up the arse, and we all need a kick up the arse is a lovely way to look at it.

Fran Jones  35:41

I don't think there's, I don't need to escape, who, who I am, and I don't need to create this image for people to see me as, as whatever I intend to create, you know, like, I'm not trying to, I guess create a facade is the best way, what everyone's gonna have their own interpretation and their opinion of me and how they view me now and how they will view me hopefully, at the end of my career, which will be fingers crossed a long one, I think, I don't need to escape that label at all. If there is going to be a label, what's important is if there is a label that I use it to just help people and remind me of what I've done as well, which sometimes I do forget.

Daniel Kiernan  36:28

And you, at an early age moved to Spain. And I think that the Spanish and I've been here now for 12 years over in Spain, and I see it firsthand, the Spanish are fighters, you know, the Spanish tennis world of fighters, how big of an influence is that Spanish fighter spirit had on you as well.

Fran Jones  36:51

Huge, huge impact. I mean, I don't want to attend. You know, that seems to be this stereotype of Spanish players being what is colloquially referred to as grinders. The Spaniards are not grinders, the Spaniards are so mentally tough that they break you down, they break you down, they don't grind, they break you down, they find a way to get through the match for you to finish and think oh my I'm absolutely done. And so it's different way of playing the game. And I'm not saying that that's the way I specifically play the game. And of course, there are different players, you know, like Badosa and Muguruza are not your, you know, 'typical' in inverted commas, grinders. But there's a mentality there, which is, you know, we're humbled, we're gonna stay on the court as long as we need to, we will run for every ball, we will make you play every different style of play in this match. And it's really they're just trying to stretch you out to your limits. And I think having had the, I'm gonna say privilege because it is a privilege to move at such a young age to Spain, having had the privilege to play against that sort of identity and profile on the court from the age of 10. It's instilled a lot more values in me, those values that I took from up north, and have been that say they've never progressed to the values that I now had the pleasure of experiencing.

Daniel Kiernan  38:31

The moral of the story be careful of Spanish Bradford lasses, running around a tennis court. If there's ever going to be someone who's tough mentally. Fran, I could sit here for hours I know. And again, just for the listeners, this is real this these podcasts are real, you know, myself and Fran had a time later on this evening. She has had a little injury today that you're going to jump to the doctor and take care of so its meant that we've had to cut the podcast a little bit short. I can't let you go without our quickfire round that we traditionally do on the podcast. So before you head out, are you ready?

Fran Jones  39:12

I'm not sure I am because like I really like to think about things.

Daniel Kiernan  39:16

cheesy. Just whatever comes to your head we can edit bad words out as well. So don't worry about that

Fran Jones  39:23

Yeah, I've been trying to cut them out.

Daniel Kiernan  39:26

You've already said one or two they slip out well that's ok, your favorite Grand Slam?

Fran Jones  39:33

 Wimbledon

Daniel Kiernan  39:34

Clay courts or hard courts?

Fran Jones  39:37

Clay courts

Daniel Kiernan  39:38

Forehand or backhand?

Fran Jones  39:40

Forehand

Daniel Kiernan  39:41

Serve or return?

Fran Jones  39:43

Return

Daniel Kiernan  39:45

Medical timeout or not should they be allowed?

Fran Jones  39:48

No

Daniel Kiernan  39:50

Net chords or not?

Fran Jones  39:53

As in I would say like keep it as it is

Daniel Kiernan  39:56

Not college rules?

Fran Jones  39:58

No

Daniel Kiernan  39:59

Who's going to be the winner of the WTA finals in Mexico,

Fran Jones  40:03

Badosa

Daniel Kiernan  40:04

She's looking so good isn't she.

Fran Jones  40:06

I just have known her since a young age, so I, I believe she will win it

Daniel Kiernan  40:11

A quick side note of that, she used the word I watched the interview last night or whenever it was, and she used the word that Rafa has used a lot. And that I think, defines the Spanish culture. And she said how much she'd suffered during the match. And, and found the way, and I think, you know, we use the word tolerant you have to tolerate, but as tennis players, any young tennis players listening, you have no chance unless you're able to suffer and tolerate pain out there. And what about the winner of the ATP finals in Torino?

Fran Jones  40:47

Oh, I don't want to be predictable. But I really think Djokovic is ready to go

Daniel Kiernan  40:53

Yeah, incorrect. Medvedev is going to beat him in the final.

Fran Jones  40:56

I hope so, I hope so

Daniel Kiernan  40:58

The courts are very quick there. We'll see. We'll see. We'll text each other in a week's time. We'll see. And what's one rule change you would make in tennis?

Fran Jones  41:09

Different balls for every different tournament? I think there should be a ball per quarter. So per Grand slam you stick to that ball full stop.

Daniel Kiernan  41:16

That's a unique answer. And 142 podcasts? Nobody's Nobody said that. And my last question, we ask everybody this, before you answer this, you are responsible to help get this person on the podcast. So be careful. Don't just shout out Superman. If you can't get Superman on the show. Who should our next guest be on Control the Controllables?

Fran Jones  41:45

Oh, I've got goosebumps. I have a few people in my mind. And they wouldn't necessarily be the stereotypical people. But that's okay. Sonay Kartal would be my answer. I think she has a really interesting story. And I've watched her practice and I've hit with her once, maybe four years ago, but I don't think she realizes that I have a lot of respect for her and we barely know each other. So I think she's got an interesting story and, and deserves the opportunity to share that a little bit.

Daniel Kiernan  42:25

We'd love to get around. We'd love to get her on, Fran, you run or not quite run if you've got to take care of yourself. But I can't tell you how grateful I am for you coming on to the show, for people to to hear your story to hear to hear you speak. You know, I'm a big fan of yours from afar. You know, all all the very best for 2022. You know, keep doing your thing. Keep you know rising those rankings. Keep inspiring. And keep smiling. Yeah. So thank you so much for coming on.

Fran Jones  42:57

Thank you very much. I really appreciate it. And once again, well done 142 episodes is great effort.

Daniel Kiernan  43:03

Thanks, Ron. As always, I've got Vicki next to me to go through that amazing episode. And what an episode it was. And I tell you what, Vicki, I certainly would want Fran in my team.

Victoria Kiernan  43:16

Yeah, me too. She's awesome. It's actually the first time I've heard her speak. I've read about her. I've watched her play, but I haven't. I haven't heard her talk about her tennis before. And, you know, she mentioned a few times about having to be nails to be a tennis player. And she really does come across as nails. She sounds super tough.

Daniel Kiernan  43:35

She does. And I think one of the things that jumped out to me when we're doing all of these episodes, is there has been quite a common ground of player was around tennis as a youngster either through a sibling or through a parent who was a coach or around a sporting environment. And I think the fact that Fran very much came from a different background, you know the story of how and genuinely I said it on the on the episode when she said about this nine till five, and all of a sudden the turned and nine till five was in lights across the road. Genuinely this light came on. I don't know if it was the dodgy lights at the NTC down at Roehampton. But these lights came on and shined on her and it really does feel as if her whole tennis tennis career started from a point where she had to show incredible resilience, you know, and yes, of course there's the physical differences, but that is who Fran is. And I think she would, she would ultimately say herself. She wasn't a golden talent in this sport, who comes along and it's just meant to be that she's going to be a top tennis player and shoot to stardom. She's had to work for everything that she's got. And she continues to and I think this is is the sort of story that we should have young players following because it's the more realistic story, you know that someone's able to just keep going keep progressing not taking massive massive steps year on year but little baby steps and putting a lot of work in and I bet she's finished this year 153 I'll bet my bottom bottom dollar that at the end of next year, she would have finished a little bit higher than that and will keep progressing and I believe have a great career.

Victoria Kiernan  45:29

It's an incredibly inspiring story as well isn't it you know, how many times do we hear a player coming off the court going oh my grip wasn't right today or I've got the wrong shoes you know, I think it's it's a good lesson for a lot of young players

Daniel Kiernan  45:43

You heard just just just shut up and get on with her and and I think that's what she said she called it I think a kickarse a bit of a kick up the arse for people and I think we all do do need that at times and listening to Fran I mean, like I said, I said at the start here that I'd want her to be on my team. I think I'd want her to be the manager, the head coach, because, you know, I can you can almost see her in the dressing room like, like an Alex Ferguson type figure, you know, I've really given people a right kick up the ass. And she would be someone that you would want to go and play for, because of how she carries herself. She's incredibly humble. And that came through, throughout I think the episode how humble she was. But I do love a couple of stories. But one who will definitely try and get her on the show is Sonay Kartal, who she talked about at the end, and she's already passed on her number she's gone away, found the number passed it to me, not a girl that she said she knows. But massively admires from afar. The fact that she had those nice words to say about Sonay were really nice to hear as well.

Victoria Kiernan  46:51

Yeah absolutely, but my favorite story actually had a little tear in my eye with that story was the taxi driver from Argentina. What a heartwarming story.

Daniel Kiernan  47:01

I think it's a story that probably just sums her up, doesn't it? The whole, the whole story. From from the word go, I think it's very, it's very unassuming. It's, it's very humbling. It shows the kindness that she has, but also the toughness that she has, a young girl in Argentina. The fact that she trusted this, this taxi driver as she did, you know.

Victoria Kiernan  47:29

Not naive though she said she was you know, wary. And you know.

Daniel Kiernan  47:33

Absolutely, but I think there's a certain toughness that goes into a young girl traveling to Spain, from a young age, a young girl going to South America, they're pretty, they're pretty tough places to go, you know, you hear you hear a lot of tennis players saying I'm gonna go to the all inclusive in Egypt, I'm gonna go to, you know, to say, I'm gonna go on the clear courts in South America, pretty much on my own, you know, sounds like without a coach. And, and I'm going to find my way around, and I'm going to trust this taxi driver. And then at the end of the week, I'm going to take his family out and, and build a beautiful relationship, you know, with with them, I think there was so much that came through in that one story, I don't think you'll be the only person that had a tear in your eye listening. Like I said to Fran, it was a real goosebump moment, you know, that story and me seeing France face when she spoke about that, you know, there was a real warmth in her face and a real feel good.

Victoria Kiernan  48:30

This is what we always say, Isn't it about, you know, tennis is not just the experiences on the court, it's the experiences that it gives you off the court as well.

Daniel Kiernan  48:39

Yeah, so many things and, and Fran kept saying, it's one of the reasons we we do this podcast to continue on earthing these stories and hopefully inspiring, it boils down to two things again, that keep coming through. Be nice to people, you know, be kind, be humble, you know, live your life in the right way. And then give your very best and with what you have, we're all dealt as Fran said, different different hands, you know, and how are we able to go through life with the cards that we have, you know, and make the very best of that. And I think if you're sticking to those two, those two principles, you really won't go far wrong in this life. I certainly wish Fran the absolute success and happiness that that she deserves and I'm sure that she that she will get and for me definitely goes down as one of my absolute favorite guests.

Victoria Kiernan  49:36

And we'd love to hear your thoughts on the episode as well. You can email us at CTC dot podcast at sort of tennis.com or you can head to Instagram at Find us at CTC dot podcast and let us know what you thought. Also

Daniel Kiernan  49:51

A little shout out to Stuart Fraser, a journalist from from The Times newspaper in the UK. It was really lovely of him. And if anyone saw it, put out a little article on Saturday just gone by to recommend listening to the podcast and said how much he's been loving all the episodes. So thank you, Stuart for that. And thank you to all of you that have been in touch. We've had some amazing people coming from all parts of the world, getting in touch saying how much of these these episodes are inspiring how insightful they are, and the odd little challenge as well which we which we don't mind at all. to whet the appetite for the next few weeks. We have Karolina Pliskova that will be coming on to the show in December. Mardy Fish is is on his way guys. He's just he's had to move it back. I mean, things have gone a little bit mad since the Netflix show. So he's had to move it back a few weeks. But he's promised he's coming on. So watch out for that one. And also Rohan Bopanna who has been a Grand Slam finalist in doubles from India and has an amazing story to tell as well. And many, many more guests. The list is long keep sending in your ideas who you'd like to hear from and we will keep trying to bring them to you guys. But until next time, I'm Dan Kiernan and we are Control the Controllables