Rohan Bopanna - First-time Grand Slam Champion at 37

DISCLAIMER: Please note we use a transcription service, so there may be some errors in the following transcription of this episode. If you can, please refer to the audio for exact quotations.

Daniel Kiernan  00:09

Welcome to control the controllables. I'm Dan cannon from Sato tennis academy in Spain, and we teamed up with Max tennis academy in Ireland. We brought this podcast together to entertain, educate, and energize the tennis community through the different lenses of the sport that we love. From Grand Slam champions to those at grassroots level, from sports journalists, to backroom staff. Our aim is truly to get under the bonnet of the tennis world at all levels. So sit back and enjoy the show. Welcome to Episode 144 of control the controllables in a country that nearly has 1.5 billion people living in it, why have they not produced more world class tennis players?

Rohan Bopanna  01:05

We don't have a structure even till today, you know, from the National Federation, so that makes it extremely difficult for anybody from India who you know, wants to try and make it there. And I think that is something which really needs to change. And I think we need more players involved in associations, I think, you know, that really helped kind of helps. And

Daniel Kiernan  01:29

that was the current 42 in the world in doubles, Rohan Bopanna. He's been as high as number three in the world back in July of 2013. The Grand Slam champion, as he won the 2017 French Open mixed doubles title with Gabby dobrowski. He was also a finalist in the men's doubles with his great friend and former podcast guest Assam Qureshi, a semifinalist at the Olympics, he's made the Neato finals on numerous occasions, making the actual final of that event in 2012 and 2015. He's had a great career, he's still going. He's 41 years old. He's got his own academy in India, he has his own coffee company. He has so many stories to tell, is a genuine, humble, amazing guy who is going to have a big, big impact on Indian tennis over the next 2030 years. Mark my words. And it's a real pleasure to pass over a friend of mine. Rohan Bopanna. So Rohan Bopanna big welcome to control the controllables How you doing?

Rohan Bopanna  02:48

Thank you, Dan, thank you for having me. I know we've been fighting with different time zones and trying to get on this but really glad I'm finally here and chatting with you.

Daniel Kiernan  02:59

Well, actually, Rohan I've been I've been avoiding you, you know you were you were one of my first thoughts. But after and I shared it with you sharing my two of my last three ever losses on the ATP ITF tour on the singles court came to you. So it's taken me all of these years to get you out my head. And here you are confronted me again. So apologies. It's taken too long. But that's why

Rohan Bopanna  03:26

No, no, no, thank you, you know, for sharing that picture with me just fond memories. I think when you have wonderful guys when you traveled with had fun with outside the tennis court, but also have played alongside with you, which is nice. And you know, really happy that you're doing this and wonderful to be talking to you. And

Daniel Kiernan  03:48

before we get into a couple of things and then your story, Rohan I think one thing that does jumped to my mind, even as we were talking off air there, it's for 16 years, 17 years since I stopped. And you know, when we go back to those results we're talking you must have seen off a lot of people throughout your career. You know, how how does that feel as there's kind of this constant evolvement of players that are that are leaving the game that that you have spent so much time with over the years.

Rohan Bopanna  04:23

It is extremely sad to be honest, because you've shared so many wonderful memories with them. You've had close friendships. So you know tennis is such a close family. But in the end of the day, we all meet when the tournaments happen. You know we come from various different parts of the world. And we all meet at these tournaments and suddenly when somebody stops you definitely missed them. You know on the tour Yes, you go ahead and you continue your journey you're playing matches and you're doing the things but outside those, you know matches when you hang out. These are the friends you know you shared wonderful times, then, you know, you definitely missed them. And it's, you know, has been over the years that, you know, few people have stopped for various reasons. But, you know, I think that's purely an individual choice on what on how they decide and what they decided when to stop or how long they want to keep going. And

Daniel Kiernan  05:19

you, you talk about the, the tight knit community and tennis is, you know, I'm certainly very proud to still be a part of this amazing industry, this amazing community. And there's, there's a current situation going on in the world, within our community, with Peng, Peng sway, you know, everybody that's listening would have heard about it, the WTA now have made a big stance and amazing stance, you know, I think incredible leadership has been shown to, to say, look, this is one of our own, she's not been taken care of in the way that we want any human being to be taken care of, and we're going to make a stance of putting our morals, our values, in front of any business any money that they have. And they for those that haven't heard, they've now pulled the plug on tournaments in China, for the foreseeable future. Are the ATP gonna follow suit? And where do you stand on this one?

Rohan Bopanna  06:23

First of all, then I think it is. So sad to see what the situation is. And WTA CEO coming out with that stated statement is such a big positive step. And I think we, as a tennis family have to voice this. And you know, everybody has to come together. And you know, I would love to ATP to follows suit as well. I think it's the right decision what they've done, because I don't think anyone needs to be treated the way feng shui has been treated. And it's wonderful to see, you know, WTA taking such a big step. You know, when they almost have I think 1011 tournaments in China and then pulling out of, you know, the entire calendar from China, I think it really shows they're taking care of the players, and they're making sure their safety is the number one priority. And,

Daniel Kiernan  07:17

and also, the one thing, again, in line with this, this tennis community, and I'm fully I'm fully with you, and our thoughts certainly go with paying and everyone that is involved in this. And the more that we all stick together on this, the quicker we can get to a stronger solution. So hats off to the WTA. And let's, let's see your card as well, ATP. And maybe by the time this goes out, it's already happened. And we hope so. And it'll have an impact. But if we go more now specific, because we talk about the tennis community, and we talk about the tennis industry, and there is as tight knit as it is, in lots of ways. It's also fractured in lots of ways, you know, we have many different organizations working together, we're not working together, don't quite seem to be able to find solid ground. And even if we start breaking that down into the into the men's game, you know, I know you are a supporter of the movement, the PT pm movement. I guess for someone who's heavily involved in tennis, as myself, I don't fully understand that, you know, so. So for someone that's a little bit closer, what can you share with us? And and why is it that you are a supporter of that movement?

Rohan Bopanna  08:46

Then I think the biggest thing there is that, you know, first of all, we have so many different bodies who are running the sport, you know, and that itself is confusing for players. You know, as as you know, that that is the hardest part, I think, what the ptpa, as far as what I've gained a little knowledge is to really come together to help players because I think the ATP when it was first started, that was the number one goal number one key to really help players come together and get the best, you know, for the players. You know, when they're playing tournaments and competing at various parts of the world. I think somewhere, something has been lost in between communication with the players, the tournaments, the people running it, everything. The biggest, and the best positive thing will be if we have one body controlling the entire situation. And again, I think the players are the ones who are, you know, working day in day out to come out there compete and play at the highest level. So I think their priority has to be looked into In a big way, and more, so I think the lack of communication, which is had, you know, from the ATP to the players, I think is that is where a lot of people have been having a little doubts on what is really happening and what actually is going on between tournaments and players and, you know, the ATP, I think ptpa is trying to bridge that gap and get a better communication, but they are still very much in the beginning of this process. And you know, nobody really knows exactly where that is also headed. It is just right now, an idea which is there, you know, where the players love to have something really working for them. But it's still there's a lot of steps to be set in place before I think all the players who have said, they want to go ahead with ptpa to still get in a positive note.

Daniel Kiernan  11:02

And what are the what are the two or three big agenda points, big topics, that that has the players feeling unhappy? So if you have I put you in charge now, you know, you're a very smart, intelligent guy, you've been in this sport now for many, many years, many years. And at all levels, you know, you've seen, I'm sure lots of different ATP player councils, you've seen lots of different systems, what are the two or three kind of quick wins that that the players are looking for?

Rohan Bopanna  11:38

I think the number one there, then is communication, I think there's a big gap in communication with the players and ATP organizers. And I think, apart from them, of course, the prize money, the distribution of prize money is another big, big issue which a lot of the players are having. So these two I really feel is something which has to be looked into straight away. And what is really happening is, I think, when they come out and talk to the players, there is no clarity on what is happening. You know, they come out on a zoom call, they say this is what ATP is doing. This is what the players are doing. This is what tournaments are doing. But just to make it more simple, easy for players to understand. You know, I think that is what is really needed. And that is the biggest key which is missing.

Daniel Kiernan  12:32

And is this area. And again, people listening are not happy that I haven't gone into your into your story yet they're used on these podcasts as starting, we will get there. But I think this is a fascinating subject. Because, again, for those listening, currently, and I'm sure you will have the figures on this, what percentage of income that comes in through the ATP is paid out to the players.

Rohan Bopanna  12:59

I think it is 14% to the players 7% of the men 7% of women in especially in the grand slams and everything and that is also in that percentage, I think that is 83 to 17% singles and doubles split as well. Right? So you know, so there is a percentage coming to the players for the from the tournament, it's still very, very low, you know, compared to a lot of other sports, you know, which are out there. Because that

Daniel Kiernan  13:33

was one thing that kind of resonated with me when I was I guess the first reaction is stop you engine, you're, you're in New York, you're professional tennis players, you know, get on you're lucky, you know, all these type of things, but when you start to stop and undress it, you know, somebody told me that the percentage, I think it's in the NBA, it's like maybe 45%, or even 50% of the revenue is actually going back to the players, you know, who were who were ultimately the assets in, in this picture. So I think for the for those listening, I think one of the one of the issues that the players are seeing here, which rightfully so, is where is that money going? You know, the money is being generated. But the but the players aren't seeing it and I guess at the top end of the game and I know you're you've been a doubles player for a few years, but in the money certainly nowhere near the same on the double side. But then we just have to go down to the days of me and you playing and as Becca Stan, for the winner wins an extra $25 You know, and that's, that's about it. And that certainly hasn't changed since the day that I was playing. So if if there is more money that comes through at the top end, I guess it can start to filter through and more money can make more people can make money from the sport as well.

Rohan Bopanna  14:57

You're absolutely right. And I think Uh, what really needs to start is the distribution should start from the bottom and then come to the top, I think if the percentage is increased, I think it's where the future's and the challenges level, the real E, that is where the money needs to really increase the, you know, those are the players who are trying to make it to the top level are the ones who are spending the same amount on flights or hotels, for examples. You know, they're also traveling 28 to 30 weeks, in a year, you know, and it's tough, because when they're not paying so much money, to have a coach traveling with us added expense. So you know, it should start from the bottom and then come to the top. And I think that is something which will really make a difference and help tennis, you know, grow in a bigger way.

Daniel Kiernan  15:48

My last question on it on this subject. The cynical side of me, and if I, a lot of my coaching is now done in the in that level, the challenges the futures side of things, doesn't know that jurkovich care about someone six or 700 in the world, are they featuring in those conversations?

Rohan Bopanna  16:17

I think he genuinely does care. But you know about these guys, because he understands, you know, what's happening, I don't know, if he's as much listening to or hearing, I would say not more listening hearing from what they are actually there to tell him. I think he's very much open on if somebody does reach out to him to have a word on that. And I think that is something which he's trying to do and really help, you know, players, you know, come together. And

Daniel Kiernan  16:49

yeah, because I think that's important, I think, I think for the people listening to, to these episodes, if they know that, arguably the greatest player of greatest male player of all time, is fighting their corner. And people like yourself, Rohan. And I think the way that you've said it so beautifully. They're about it coming from the bottom up, you know, in such a humble way. I think that's what the tennis industry needs. And we all, we all need these good news stories, we all need to feel like our sport is growing, and that we are valued at all at all levels of the sport. So it's lovely to hear that and in terms of you were talking here, you know, the big end, you know, someone now, Rohan Bopanna, a big, big name in India, a Grand Slam champion, multiple Grand Slam finals, still going strong on the ATP tour is not what you dreamt of doing when you first picked up a rocket.

Rohan Bopanna  17:49

I definitely dreamt of you know, playing a you know, at a high level, I think every player out there when they start and they get better in, you know, as the years going, they want to achieve the best. But as I progressed in my career, I think, luckily for me, what really worked out was having short term goals. And every time I achieved that, then I got into a new goal and not really thought of something, which is way beyond my limit and trying to you know, reach that I thought let's go step by step. You know, try and make it to the Davis Cup team of India first. And then Okay, let's try and, you know, win a challenger title. Futures challenge. I think we had satellites back then, you know, when we were when we first started before the futures as well. So it was you know, taking that step by step. And I think that really, kind of even till today helps me when I'm, you know, playing out there.

Daniel Kiernan  18:46

If I even take you a step further back than that, because you know that when you're thinking of playing futures, you're thinking of playing satellites. You're already a good player, you've already got there. So what How old were you when you started? Was it was it something that you took to instantly? I'm not sure I didn't really know much about your junior career either. You know, how were you as a junior, were you this kind of talent that was always going to be a tennis player. Take me back to those days.

Rohan Bopanna  19:20

So here's a interesting story of a journey where I started. So right now I live in a city called Bangalore. I was born here but I grew up in a small little place called Cook, which is spelled C W O RG. It is where the Indian coffee plantation is grown. So I grew up in a coffee plantation that's been a family business. So in that coffee plantation there were one including my dad, and there were about I think eight eight people there who wanting to play tennis couple of them knew tennis, they built a tennis court themselves. And they taught each other that tennis. And that's how tennis was started. And I was introduced to it. Obviously, when I was I used to watch the all the club members playing, but I was introduced to it only by the age of 10. So when I started playing tennis, so, but it was something where there was no coaching, really, my dad just learned himself reading on the book, how to hold the racket, everything. So I think that really helped on myself because I had a continental grip. But on my ground source as the tennis evolved, I still hit a lot of ground strokes very, very flat as unfortunately the early days of my career. I wasn't taught a thought that. Then, after a few years, I moved to an academy in Pune, I lived there for about four or five years training with the best Indian athletes out there. The coach at that point of time said, unfortunately, we can't afford to give him any scholarship because I was not really a good junior at all. You know, I was just a journeyman, just going through tournaments, going with, you know, the, all the other Academy players losing first round of qualifying constantly, you know, I think only because when I was growing in height, I was getting, you know, which helped him tennis being being tall helped myself, as I turned 1819 20, I started hitting the ball a little quicker, but my consistency was not there. And then I started, you know, working on that only at the age of 21, I had a big breakthrough in my tennis career winning a national title in India, which got me into the Davis Cup team in 2002, which has all Vic 22 by them. So, you know, it was definitely looking at today's world of the way that kids are playing. I don't think I would have continued for this long. At that point of time. I I said I felt like I was still a freshman coming into these tournaments, because I was raw, hardly played any futures satellites. So I started playing them the satellites, the futures and then eventually getting on to the challenges. You know, that was so that was kind of a journey for me there. And

Daniel Kiernan  22:33

in terms of the because another interesting topic for me Rohan is an add so many different people from different nationalities. So many I guess yes, again, tennis is a universal sport. But it is done differently. And and the Federation's will approach things. And I always think in life, we always think the grass is greener. So people are always quite envious of how another Federation works. How does it work on in terms of a national governing body? In India? What's the support? Like for players? How was the support for you when you grew up?

Rohan Bopanna  23:13

Unfortunately, it is absolutely zero, there has been zero support. We don't have a structure even till today, you know, from the National Federation. So that makes it extremely difficult for anybody from India who you know, wants to try and make it there. And I think that is something which really needs to change. And I think we need more players involved in associations, I think you know, that really help kind of helps. Of course, you have these people that the Federation trying to find a way to maybe get better tennis, but they do need I think players to help them, you know, understand what is really required. And I'm 41 today and you know, from the time I've been I've started tennis to till today we have I think very very similar structure in place there's nothing really changed so much. And I think that is something which really it really needs to change. And the Federation needs to come help these players. You know, we have some tremendous talent, tremendous talents coming out of the country, but unfortunately, they don't have too much of help so then they fizzle out you know after they finished their juniors because we've had some great junior athletes you know, coming from the country doing well in the junior circuit, but today we don't even have one Junior representing in the Grand Slams, which is I think really going backwards. At 41 years old. I am the still the highest ranked athlete in the country. Yes, it's it's great but I to me, it's embarrassing. You know that there is there's nobody there competing playing at this level. So something has to change. And you know, I think that is where we are lacking as a tennis playing nation.

Daniel Kiernan  25:09

Is there an element though Rohan to play devil's advocate a little bit of there's a little bit of natural selection that's happening here as well. Because, you know, look at you, and you know, you, I hope you are, but you certainly should be incredibly proud of the career that you've had. And as sitting here as a 41 year old achieving what you've achieved, doing that your way and, and doing it through your own personal grit and determination and, and finding a way because in tennis, we know that it's a sport that will ultimately come down to Extreme Ownership, it falls on the player, the player has to has to be the one and I guess, Federation's that are throwing money and opportunity at the players. Maybe those players don't develop those those those skills, those ownership skills, those determination, the real drive hunger to do it. So maybe there's a balance there, between what the Indian Federation's doing or not doing, and other countries, but it does seem to me, there's always been a kind of constant floor, have pretty good players that are coming out of out of India, and and the cream tend to rise to the top. I don't know what you think of that.

Rohan Bopanna  26:41

I mean, I definitely agree to a few few points, you're mentioning the den but a country of a billion people where we are and we have about 1000 Plus academies in the country, do you read? Yes, we do. You know, I think we definitely need a coaches program, a quality coaches, you know, to have a problem, it is there in place, but it's not some thing which is looked at to develop these kids. I mean, you know, and I really feel that is where the structure has to be, you know, ways, like you said, we've had a handful of players come through the system, on their own perseverance or fighting through every system to come there, but with as a country, as big as India, you know, if we follow a similar structure, what we have in cricket, you know, starting from a junior level, having tons of tournaments going into a national level, and then getting into the international level, you know, there itself it shows having a good structure in place gives it a good platform, to get to the top level. I mean, for a men's player, for example, there may be one, maybe two challenges in India to for him to play. And traveling from India, everything is far away, you know, coming to Europe is a 19 hour flight going to the US is, you know, 20 hour flight, I mean, you know, so it's that much more added expense, you know, for a player. So I feel that is where the Federation can come in and really, maybe bring in some tournaments helping these athletes, you know, get better.

Daniel Kiernan  28:25

The Cricket points, such an interesting one as well, when I my only my only professional singles event that I won was in India. So I have very, very fond memories of of Mumbai of the court, they suited me so well, those courts the quick, the quick courts coming through qualifying, but what what hit me spending four or five weeks there. Cricket is life. You know, and if we, you know, I had a fantastic guest last week, Keith Reynolds, who is a legend of British tennis has been around for many, many years and, and he was talking about cultures and he was saying, if you the icebreaker question in England is what's the weather like? The the icebreaker question in in the US is what church are you a part of? And he was saying the icebreaker question in Argentina, in Spain is what sports club are you a part of? You know, it's so it's so deeply embedded in the culture. I would imagine the icebreaker question in India is are you a baller? Are you a batsman? You know because it's it's so heavily integrated into the sport? Where does it forget structure for one minute, where does tennis compare to cricket as as as a culture within within the nation?

Rohan Bopanna  29:54

I would say top three in this in the country. Yeah it is very much A up there, we have tons and tons of tennis clubs, tennis academies, you know, players playing it. You know. So that is a, you know, fantastic thing. Unfortunately, tennis is not shown in India. So that is where we are really suffering. I mean, I'm talking about Grand Slam ATP, nothing is shown in India. Nothing. I mean, nobody has taken the rights for India. Wow, unfortunately, which is, how do you improve the sport? I mean, you know, like, finals in Turin, nobody, I couldn't watch it. If you didn't have a tennis TV subscription, there was no way you could watch it. Which is so when I'm, I feel that when I'm playing at these events, you can only inspire young kids, I think when they see somebody from your own country playing. So, so it's you know, this, this is where again, the Federation comes into play saying we have five Indians playing maybe a challenger maybe I think, let them let us come together help them let let us show their matches back at home. Yeah, you know, so I feel that is the catch 22 situation where you have, yes, you you're doing it yourself. But the Federation also needs to be part of it to try and help the sport. And

Daniel Kiernan  31:22

are they open to change? Do they have finance behind them? Is there what's what's the solution? I guess, you know, I'm not wishing you to stop playing tennis right now. Rohan you know, I'm sure you've got your your time. But you do have your own Academy, which we'll get to later. But what could someone like you do you know, a big name. And then you've got obviously Leander, my hash I know those two don't necessarily see eye to eye or certainly didn't used to. But what can what can you guys do to impact that?

Rohan Bopanna  31:58

I mean, personally speaking for me, I've just joined the state Federation here in Karnataka, which is Bangalore as part of that state. And I've just got myself involved with the Federation. And we are really trying to bring in a lot more tournaments grow the junior circuit, here, and I feel that is where, you know, Claire's, I think in there is a lot of money in the state, you know, to help sport because I think sport is getting promoted by the government, right now. It is just to have a player there to tell them what way they can go about it. Because sometimes when you have that money, you're not sure where to spend it, or how to spend it. You know, so the finances are very much they're available. You know, through the government, there is some good corporate sponsors coming in, who really want to help out. But it's again, getting the right idea of how to balance that amount and how to go about it. And so, so far, this week, literally, you know, there's an IPF women's tournament going on in Bangalore is the first one after the COVID. The pandemic, rather, I should say, with, you know, everything slowly opening out in India, it is the first tournament and ITF tournament being held for the women's side here.

Daniel Kiernan  33:20

I can, I can picture it now. Rohan 20 years time, you're sat there, you're in the box. There's an Indian Wimbledon champion, you know, you're the you're the director of Indian tennis. And you've brought this amazing structure to an amazing country, full of full of fantastic passionate people. You know, there's so many ingredients there. It just maybe seems like it needs a raw, humble partner to bring it together. Do you have the heart the will the energy to be that guy?

Rohan Bopanna  33:55

Then I think I have it too much that the passion is so much that I want to have this sport and that one thing you mentioned there is 20 years. That is where it's tough, hard thing to tell the parents that you need time you need. They think if they join the Ron Bopanna tennis academy, tomorrow, he's going to be playing at the Grand Slam. So that is where exactly, which, you know, it's a good long, hard working process. And it is definitely doable, I think. Yeah,

Daniel Kiernan  34:28

no, absolutely. It's a it's a it's a world of instant gratification. In a in a sport that doesn't give instant gratification. And it's true. You know, where where we're not in we're not in a sport, not in a sport that's going to give us that you know, it's it's a day in, day out, month in month out year in year out sport, where where you might then get some opportunities that the the hard work pays and and I think your career or Han is, is is a great example of that, you know, age 30, I believe was your first Grand Slam final, with a good friend, a good friend of both of ours in Assam Qureshi, and then your first Grand Slam title came in 2017 when you're 37 years old, you know, and and what a what an example for people when you first picked up that that racket, age 10 to to all of the work, the sacrifice the investment from yourself and all of the people around you, that you because you stuck at it, you were then able to pick up that trophy to have that moment that no one will, will take away from you. How did that feel after all of those years? Dan?

Rohan Bopanna  35:50

I think it is definitely their proudest, you know, I felt, you know, for just from the the journey I've come through and I've gone weeks in weeks out not knowing where I'm standing what I'm doing, whether it's I'm doing the right thing, but having the right people around not only family, but friends also made a huge difference. I think, you know, just to understand the sacrifices you're making, in order to find the best in yourself and coming from a very, very small town in cold. Innovate having zero resources, you know, to to be lifting that trophy, you know, in at Roland Garros, I think it was totally, totally special, because another beautiful thing is that, that kind of clay we don't even have in India. So it took me time to just understand how to play on that particular clay. You know, I don't know, if you have when you were in India, if there was a tournament on the clay courts, even the clay used to be so fast, you could easily easily serve and volley and, you know, play that kind of surface. So, you know, that was truly a very, very special moment. I mean, not only for me, but I think everyone who's been part of you know, my journey.

Daniel Kiernan  37:16

Absolutely. And the question I would ask now, and I've asked a lot of my guests this is do you view your career as successful?

Rohan Bopanna  37:28

Absolutely, I do. The biggest thing, that is the perseverance, then

Daniel Kiernan  37:35

that was my next question. How do you define that success? What are your What are your success measures? Because obviously, lifting the trophy absolutely is a big success measure. But what are the other measures of success for you?

Rohan Bopanna  37:51

Right, in the beginning, like I said, having those short term goals and working at it in a timely manner and moving forward and to constantly being at it, you know, not worrying about the results. Of course, it's easy to say, but when it you know, there have been tough times, in 2006, I had a shoulder surgery where I was out for six months. And then you have all these demons in your head, you know, not knowing whether even going to be playing or what you're going to do was, you know, I think, thankful to me that surgery went off well, and everything got better. And I know as tennis players, we go through so many different injuries as well. Well, sometimes you're thinking and, again, having those right people around, you made a big difference. And you know, those are, I think, a few things which were extremely important for me to keep growing as a player and keep learning. I mean, even till today, I think when I'm playing there. I'm learning so much by just watching or, you know, being on the court and playing and

Daniel Kiernan  38:56

who you mentioned those people and family friends, but who's been the most influential person in your tennis career?

Rohan Bopanna  39:07

I think for the past now 10 years is definitely my wife because for me somewhere, she's my in house shrink. She's a psychologist. So I think yeah, she is She is a psychologist. So, you know, I think so many times it helped me. You know, when I came out of a batch when I was just renting or you know, she would just listen and maybe give me a different perspective. Nothing to do with tennis, but just the way to, you know, handle the situation or, you know, when I'm playing with a partner to maybe communicate with his partner in a particular way. I think she understood that better than doing that was really something which I give a lot of credit to, you know, having her by my side to a lot of success I've had From the age of 30, to 40.

Daniel Kiernan  40:01

So cue the, the tennis players running to sport psychologist centers around the world to ask all these girls or boys out out on dates. Because this is the secret, if you can, if you can travel with a sports psychologist, which actually EGUs for young tech, who was training at the academy, before the French Open, she travels with a sports psychologist. And little did we know we all thought she was the first one to do it. But actually, we're all humbled. Pam has been doing it for 10 years. It's an unbelievable.

Rohan Bopanna  40:42

No, but yeah, it's been fantastic, you know, having family traveling with you, and this way, using her knowledge to you know, my advantage is, I think really helped me in a big, big way. And

Daniel Kiernan  40:56

what about the flip side? When you're on holiday? Or you're back home? Are you just spending time with friends and family? Is she analyzing you all the time? Is there? Is there a negative to being with a psychologist as well?

Rohan Bopanna  41:09

I'm sure there is a you know, a few things that that's what she said, sometimes. You know, I'm the psychologist and majority, I'm the wife.

Daniel Kiernan  41:18

So just can't win the arguments.

Rohan Bopanna  41:21

I'm not trying to win the argument, even though she says I do try a lot. But it didn't, never, never happens.

Daniel Kiernan  41:27

Well, that's lovely. And I think a lot of that will, will also be down to happiness. You know, I think, you know, once once players, and it's, and this is again, and I keep beating this drum, but it doesn't happen overnight. And you've said the same, you're experiencing that at your academy as well. It's not this instant thing, you know, you've maybe taken and I think it was a SAM that said it to me as well. You know, he up until the age of 2820, even 30, he didn't really feel comfortable in that in that environment. And just finding your happiness in life, finding the position where you're comfortable in your own skin takes takes a bit of time. But when you get all of those bits bits in place, it does have such a positive impact to what happens on the court. Yeah,

Rohan Bopanna  42:21

absolutely. I think Sam and me have had so much success together. You know, we've been friends for such a long time. And our journey kind of took off in obviously, simultaneously. And, you know, I think we're really thankful that we had each other to, you know, understand the sport grow together. And the sport has given us so much, which today we can give back to, you know, the younger generation as well.

Daniel Kiernan  42:51

And what's your biggest regret from your tennis career?

Rohan Bopanna  42:57

I think the one thing I would love to have had or changed would have would have been when I was 10 1214, whatever, to have somebody work on my movement, tennis specific movements. That's something I think I didn't have. I really felt I started that learning only when I was 2526 27. I mean, you know, much later in my career. And unfortunately, nobody in India knew that. It's not like there was somebody in India who could have taught me that we didn't have the resources to get somebody from outside to travel with me, unfortunately. And, you know, that is one thing, I feel would have really made a bigger impact in my tennis journey.

Daniel Kiernan  43:49

And is that something that you've brought into your academy?

Rohan Bopanna  43:53

Actually, that's the first thing I got into my therapy was, yeah, we have three strength conditioning coaches, who are significantly working on these young kids, which I really feel is is the biggest key difference in the country, because we all have great hand skills, but the movement skills are not there. And I really feel that is needed. Another thing what I really brought in is, after a personal experience is yoga into the academy. Right, okay. So during the pandemic, I mean, to give you a little background is I have zero cartilage on Mondays. It's fully worn out. So I was in 2019, on painkillers constantly not knowing what was headed. And during the pandemic. One of my cousin's, she told me that try this particular yoga called the island of yoga. And luckily, next to my house, there was this place called the practice room, which was run by husband and wife. And I reached out to them. And I said, this is what my situation is, I'd love to come and try some yoga and they were very obliging. And they said, Yes, absolutely, let's try it out, they were eager to also work with me because it was something different. A professional athlete who has right now, extreme pain in the knees, and to figure out, so I started doing 90 minutes, four times a week of this class. And then to be honest, when I came back, on to the cord, today, there are days where I have zero paid, which is incredible. I mean, so what I've really worked on is strengthening all the muscles around it, which is not taking the load to that particular spot. It's not like the cartilage is fixed, of course, but they have really changed it. And what has helped also is working on my posture working on my breath, working on my mind, I think so that is also prolonged, you know, couple years of my playing career, I feel

Daniel Kiernan  46:14

it's, it's, it's again, finding that at that point in your career, as well. And it's an it's such a great example of growth mindset, you know, always, always looking to get those little extra bits, which is, which is very admirable to hear Rohan and, and I'm sure everyone in your academy is going to massively benefit from your experience, and from everything that you are going to bring to the table. But I guess my question around your academy is why, you know, you, as you're still playing, what's the what's the real purpose? And and what is your what are your, I guess, philosophy straplines of, of why come to the royal hump Aparna tennis academy.

Rohan Bopanna  47:09

The biggest thing then is what I wanted to start while I was playing is because I want to inspire them, through myself to say that I'm there with the Academy and also connecting and watching all the top players and giving feedback to the coaches of what's really happening on ground, talking to the best of coaches sitting in the locker rooms, I think, as you know, that is when you get the best time, you know, with everyone you get, you get a good amount of time to talk to them what is going on, on how they're developing athletes in their academy, or, you know, whatever it is. So those are few things. I thought, if I when I'm playing, if I can still have. So I can give back to my coaches who we have really brought in a very significant structure in the academy to one of the biggest thing is we start in the morning with a lot of mobility and everything. And any kid who doesn't come up with that cannot play tennis that day. So you know, we're trying to make sure that they are ready for going ahead tomorrow, weather being on time for the matches, making sure they go well in early in advance doing the right thing. And starting from a young age and not just learning it when they go to bigger tournaments. And also the other significant thing is that the coaches are also being coached. We are making sure the coaches are taking a lot of responsibility. They have a set number of students, each coach have a set number of students, they are responsible for these particular students whether their growth, the way they're playing tournaments, if they get injured to the progress and to talk to the parents. So we tend to bring a complete holistic approach to the academy and I feel that is that is probably something which we need to start before looking at them to becoming good players, good athletes, and having a chance to do well.

Daniel Kiernan  49:17

And how many how many players do you have? How many players are you guys looking after that?

Rohan Bopanna  49:22

So right now we have seven tennis courts. And we have about 71 athletes 71 tennis players. It's the first of its kind in India display. It's called the sports school. So it's has boarding lodging education, and tennis, everything under one roof. The education and boarding lodging part is optional. You know, we are giving we're giving that you know to the kids so that because in India a lot of lot of parents always say okay, they want to play tennis, but We need education at the same time, what can we do? So we try to figure out what and how we can really help these kids. So there's in Bangalore, this is Jane group of international, which has schools and the chairman of that school really believes in sport, he really wants to help in sport. So he said, it'd be happy to do the education there. And that is the biggest significant difference we have. In the academies that we have everything in one center, we don't have to travel because it's all in India, traveling with the traffic and everything is is difficult. So you know, even for the parents, maybe and not It's not only a place which has tennis, it has cricket, it has football, it has basketball is is badminton. So for a parent, maybe having two kids are more and playing different sports. Also, it's a great place to come in and get them enrolled.

Daniel Kiernan  51:01

But you're talking about the traffic in India, we've had a little bit of authentic India, in the background as this, as this podcast has been going on. With the honking of the horns, I keep on hearing a couple of vehicles. And that I mean, that blew my mind. I remember when I when I first landed. And I was like, you know, RJ Ramaswamy was there to pick me up a good friend of both of ours. And as we, as we took off on this journey, I realized there's no such thing as lens in certain, certainly not in Mumbai. And I and I also learned that everybody has a home that works.

Rohan Bopanna  51:46

You know, the horn, which you're hearing right now, actually is a railway track, which is just pretty close by it. But uh, but yeah, you know, when you say you came to Mumbai, and you didn't see this, everybody following lanes and so much for me to tell you that is Bombay is one of the best cities which follows traffic.

Daniel Kiernan  52:11

It's, it's unbelievable. I mean, I was, I was like, I there's no way I want to drive here. You know, if you if you can drive in India, coming to Europe must be must be a piece of cake.

Rohan Bopanna  52:24

Yeah, absolutely. When I drive in Europe, or us, you know, some days, especially in the US when I'm driving and I put it on cruise control. Literally, two days ago, I was telling my wife, you know, all the cars have this cruise control button in India, but I don't it's impossible to set it up. It's impossible. I mean, you know, I don't even know why they even have it.

Daniel Kiernan  52:49

It's not, it's not gonna work at all, is it and in terms of I'm gonna take you back to the very start. You were brought up picking coffee, grind coffee, and and that's also another big interest of yours. The Flying Squirrel. Yeah, which I've seen. I saw coming up on my Facebook and a few years ago. And then as I was looking up for a few things, before we had our chat, I know you but there's certain details that I didn't I did find out that that was one of your one of your first first passions. And I guess to link that tell me a little bit about it, but to link how was that complimented your your tennis career, if it hasn't any way

Rohan Bopanna  53:38

the biggest thing is that the coffee was there before my tennis. So you know that that is something which I grew up around, I got to know more about coffee especially from literally growing it. And today to you know now from drinking it and then coming up with my own beans. The Flying Squirrel company was a family friend to Saturday. So I approached him and I said okay, I have some beans for my estate I want to come up and own blend. So we got together and created this own blend from my end. Now the company actually we changed the name we called it the Maverick and farmer that's what it is called and

Daniel Kiernan  54:22

why give us the give us the name story just

Rohan Bopanna  54:26

just some internal changes which had to be done. So you know, hence we the flying squirrel is there. But then just for the growth and to do different structures in place, we had to do a few changes and so hence the name name had to be changed.

Daniel Kiernan  54:43

But how did you pick the name? I always find this interesting.

Rohan Bopanna  54:47

I mean, it is just you know, because of the fight being a farmer coming from coop, you know, that's what it is. And you know, one one of my friends who said who started the company and he told me He said, Okay, well, this Maverick sounds good. So I said, Are you watching Top Gun? He said, he said, What do you mean I watching top down? So I said, I only have somebody you know, from watching Top Gun, you know, so no, he had this name, which he really liked and everything and he wanted to bring the farm aspect to it. And you know, that's how, you know, they came up with a name. But the coffee I there was one point of time I was because on the tennis circuit, everybody has coffee, everybody loves their coffee. I mean, you know, whether it is. So I actually bought a lot of beans gave it to a lot of players, you know, which was, surprisingly, the first thing what everybody asked was India coffee, these don't go together because nobody really kind of knew India had coffee. The first thing was always tea in the tea, but not so much coffee and pleasantly surprised that everybody loved the beans, which was really nice. And I'm still trying to find a way where I can maybe have my coffee in one of the tournaments. You know, and, you know, because now it's gotten to a stage that sometimes there's some bad coffee and I happen to be around, they just look at me and say, Ron, bad coffee. So I'm like, What am I supposed to do?

Daniel Kiernan  56:22

You're the coffee guy now. It is

Rohan Bopanna  56:25

it actually become like that, you know, which is nice. And in also to the fact that Indian coffees little more known now to the, through the tennis world, at least.

Daniel Kiernan  56:36

And on my second point to that question, I guess to explain a little bit more. You've lived a large portion of your life on the ATP tour, ITF ATP tour, you know, 20 plus years, you know, and to be able to do that, and not combine your life life has to also go on you know, sometimes I think tennis can just take over our world, but there is other parts to our life socially. You know, you've you've got your wife now and I'm sure Richard travels with you and you know, you've got you've got that side. But but having then this other interest is that almost helped put a bit of perspective for help to have your mind taken elsewhere. Rather than thinking about that second serve return that you missed on breakpoint in the at the end of the end of the second set, which traditionally can take over the mind of tennis players. I think a little bit if we've got nothing else but tennis, it we just kind of mull over that one shot that that what could have been has happened that other interest in developing the academy and developing the coffee business helped your mind in that way

Rohan Bopanna  57:55

to honor presented as have done and I think it really relaxes your mind. You know, having friends who are not part of the tennis world, I think kind of gave that new perspective before the coffee or the academy. I also invested in a bar back in 2010 Yeah, so that was just so random that

Daniel Kiernan  58:21

they sell your coffee.

Rohan Bopanna  58:25

The coffee get none of the biters shut now it's 10 years 10 years and we shut it down. But that was something fun. You know, where every time I was in Bangalore I was there, you know, meeting all my friends it was something very different. Relax my mind when I came on the tennis court. I think that helped me play better as well. You're not really it like exactly what you said. 24/7 Just thinking about tennis. And sometimes which can be extremely difficult when your tennis is not going well. When the tennis is going well. It's much easier to keep that mind relax and play well but the when you're most of the time it's it's hard times out there and that's when the mind needs to relax and you know, and then we have two and a half year old daughter so that is something which is definitely you know, takes my mind off everything and really you know, relaxes me a lot.

Daniel Kiernan  59:24

Okay, I'm making notes here so 2010 You haven't you haven't won a Grand Slam. You've done okay, but you've not won a Grand Slam. You then marry a psychologist. You open up a bar and then you go on to make three Grand Slam finals. You you make the semi finals that the Olympics. You make the the Neato end of the ATP tour finals. I mean, I'm trying to teach people here out I've done a Fonz and backhands but To go out, have a bar that you can go and enjoy having a few beers with your mates and marry a psychologist, I think we found the answers.

Rohan Bopanna  1:00:08

Yeah, absolutely. They have some entrepreneurship going on the side. And you know, that'll really help the dentists, I think. And that's, I'm glad you brought it out, because I think this is what I need to bring out in my academy as well.

Daniel Kiernan  1:00:19

Get the yoga. Absolutely, absolutely. My last question before we go to the quick fire round, round Rohan. And it's such a pleasure and so lovely to reconnect with you. But you have lots of things going, you know, you've got the Academy, the coffee business, obviously, you're still playing, and after traveling for so long. And when when when finally the door does close on your playing career, wherever that may be, you know, you've got a young family, you've got these things, you absolutely hit me, as someone one from personally knowing you, two from watching and supporting from afar and three, sitting in front of you today. The world's your oyster, you know, you you have a lot of things going for you. You're incredibly personable, you know, you're smart, you're switched on. So So what is your your mission, your your impact, and what is going to be your biggest impact on this world, because something tells me as good as your playing career has been, something tells me when we look back in 3040 50 years time, it won't necessarily be the playing that will have the impact. It will be what you do over the next 3040 years. So what's that going to be?

Rohan Bopanna  1:01:40

Done? First of all, thank you so much for those wonderful things. You know, you said and I think it'll be to change Indian tennis, I think that is something I really believe in, I really want to help all these young athletes and I have a big passion for it. And I have a big commitment, you know, to guide these players in the right direction. And even at the Academy today, we have almost, I think close to $200,000 worth of scholarships we have given and I think that is something I really feel is necessary in India to you know, help out and that is where my passion is. And I think that is something where I will help in a big way.

Daniel Kiernan  1:02:30

I have no doubts that you're going to do it Rohan you know, anything you ever need. Over here in Spain. You know, we're also here to support. So, our quickfire round, are you ready? I don't know. It's quick. It's quick. Whatever comes to your mind. If afterwards, you're not happy with an answer, or you're not happy with a question. Don't worry, we'll edit it out for a small fee of coffee beans. ATP cup or Davis Cup. Davis Cup are not supposed to be quickfire. What the hell are they doing to the Davis Cup right now?

Rohan Bopanna  1:03:09

But at least it's better than what they're doing with ATP cup. Yeah, at least you're competing as a country ATP cup. You only if you're top 50 in the world, you can compete.

Daniel Kiernan  1:03:20

Yeah, but why? What's your thoughts on the changes that are happening with the Davis Cup?

Rohan Bopanna  1:03:27

And I think it's extremely bad. I don't think it should be like that because having Davis Cup playing at home and evade tie is the beauty of that, of that particular game. Have that, you know, that is what I have had for past 20 years, you know, fantastic experiences. Not only playing at home but playing away from home also, you know, so I think I hope they go back to that format because, you know, that truly is something special.

Daniel Kiernan  1:03:59

I don't think there's a tennis person out there that won't say the same thing. Correct. Claire or hardcourts?

Rohan Bopanna  1:04:08

hardcourts mixed

Daniel Kiernan  1:04:09

doubles or men's doubles. Men's dollars. Roger or refer. Roger Dennis or Felix Dennis. Serena or Venus. Serena Leanda or my hash Mahesh forehand backhand forehand serve our return the medical timeout or not not let's or no let's let's toilet break rule.

1:04:42

I don't use it.

Daniel Kiernan  1:04:45

What what's one rule change you would have in tennis

Rohan Bopanna  1:04:51

doubles ranking only for doubles players.

Daniel Kiernan  1:04:53

Yes. Doubles guys sticking together. It's true. Like I mean look, I don't don't profess to be anything that you were. But as I was like 141 50 and struggling big time financially, I was thinking, get to 130 Get the 120 you're going to start getting in Grand Slams, and then they changed the rules. And then it was like, it was like, how am I gonna now keep going for that much longer?

Rohan Bopanna  1:05:21

No, I know, it's extremely difficult, you know? Because at the end of the day, you don't it's for the singles place. It's just a second event for them. Yeah, you know, so it's, it's very different, very, the way they played, you know, of course, sometimes they're committed to it, then yes, absolutely understand, but sometimes when they're not committed, they're just, you know, playing so loosely. It's it's difficult. Last

Daniel Kiernan  1:05:47

question. Who should be our next guest on control the controllables?

Rohan Bopanna  1:05:57

Denis Shapovalov

Daniel Kiernan  1:06:00

if you got the hook up, because you can't be saying these things without making it come true. You know, this is this is part of the contract, Rohan, you've that you've signed to coming on? Or you? Do you have the hook up? You know,

Rohan Bopanna  1:06:14

I thought you would just wanted to, you know, everyone to know who's who's coming up next. I mean, the hookups from you, after you're the expert on this, on this podcast,

Daniel Kiernan  1:06:25

you, you get you get the message sent, and I'll make the interview happen. I'm sure I'm sure the listeners would love to hear from Dennis, you know, a bright, bright prospect in the game. So, so that'd be brilliant. I'll be hounding you over the next couple of weeks to get in touch with him. Rohan it's it's really lovely if, if no one listens to this, it's okay. Because for me to have the time to just sit and chat and, you know, just find out a little bit more about about your life and in your career, and the way that you're thinking is a real privilege. So, thank you so much for your time, then

Rohan Bopanna  1:07:05

thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure talking to you. And you know, even though we are, you know, getting to meet on Zoom, but I'm glad we connected and you know, hopefully when I come to Spain, I can come over to your academy and you know, see how everything's going and you know, maybe he put a few of the

Daniel Kiernan  1:07:27

kids there. We it's an it's an open invite. Thank you so much. Thanks, Rohan. It's such a pleasure to have Rohan on the show. As I joked at the start, I've kept him off the show for a little while. Seeing as he did give me two of my last three ever professional tennis singles losses. What I didn't mention, but I can now that he's not in front of me. I actually played him once in doubles, him and Assam Qureshi, myself and David Sherwood. Sorry, Rohan. But we weren't seven, five in the third set that Manchester challenger, but that was many moons ago. That was 1718 years ago. And here I am recording in my son's bedroom podcast, as he is still going strong on the tour. So we know who ended up, gone the furthest in this game. And I tip my hat, I tip my hat to Rohan, I tip my hat to these guys that continue for so long that have the longevity to be out there. And it really hits me that amazing ability to to just manage to somehow live a normal life whilst traveling the world 3035 weeks a year, he seems really happy. He seems very at ease and himself. You know, having that passion that he's driving forward with the Rohan Bopanna Academy in India, and here in his passion for Indian tennis, I have no doubts that they're going to be very lucky to have him over than over the next few years. And that's exactly what Federation's need it needs. Passionate needs people that have been around the game. And that's for any, any Federation. In any country. Somebody that really has experienced all levels of the game is then what a great lesson as well. He's been running his own coffee company, the fact that it takes your mind away and I know we touched on it. But I think that's a big message to anybody listening, that's playing I'm certainly guilty of it as a player and as a coach, that those losses can hurt. Then those are the things that then prevent us from being able to get up go again. And and being able to have so many other distractions having these businesses, his wife traveling, I found that brilliant that his wife's a psychologist but he but how lucky in one regard is that and the fact that he's humble enough to take that advice from him. his wife, but it makes it makes a big, big difference. And now he's got his little two and a half year old. And it just, I know, we don't know what goes on in everyone's life. But it just seems to me that he's done a great job of keeping that balance, that elusive balance that we all do fight for in whatever we're doing. But it's extremely, extremely difficult. So I'm sure you took a lot from his positive mindset. All of his stories have to shout out the fact that he really wasn't a great Junior, he didn't do a whole lot of juniors. This is a long journey forks to long haul journey. There's lots of ways to go in this journey. And for us to get that, that other message that there's another player, that wasn't the bright eyed, bushy tailed kid that everyone picked out from a very, very young age. And that was great to see. I like that he opened up and I'm sure people will have their own thoughts. But Peng swear, you know, how can we not mention what is happening in China right now since and I'm recording this only an hour after I spoke to Rohan. And since then I've seen the ATP have come out with not a very good statement. Basically, we're not going to do anything about it, we're going to make a statement because we feel the pressure. But come on tennis community, you know, this is, this is one of our own, you know, what is happening over there is not acceptable. The truth needs to come out, we need to know what is happening to penguins were well done to the WTA for stepping up, well done for them making a big, big statement that will absolutely send shockwaves around the world, that they're able to put these things first. So well done. And I just really hope the ATP join suit. And we continue as a tennis industry to bring Peng swear to the forefront. Let's not allow this to just fizzle out. I know that this isn't the biggest platform in the world, but hopefully people listening, it just keeps it going and gets people to tweet about it. Put it on social media. Let's let's demand some answers. That ptpa is a supporter. But I think that's very, very clear over a year on since the big announcement, they're a long way from being in a position to actually make a difference right now. You know, I think the ideas are right. But the agenda is not clear. The points aren't clear. As with anything, if you're not clear in the path that you're going, it's very difficult. They've taken a step. But I do think they have to be a little bit careful that this doesn't fizzle out. But if someone like Rohan Bopanna is behind it, he's obviously happy with what he's heard. He's a very fair guy. I love that. He said, We need to build it from the bottom up. And all of you aspiring tennis players out there that are struggling because you're struggling to make ends meet. It's nice to know that some of these guys are fighting your corner. And I think that's, that's really important. And then the last one, we touched on it in the quick fire round the Davis Cup. Tell me one person in the world of tennis that is happy with what's happening in the Davis Cup right now, you know, crazy, crazy scenes that this is what they're doing. You know, I know there's still talk about the finals going to Abu Dhabi, and who's going to be there, it's going to feel like an exhibition tournament, and all the teams will still get fired up. But come on anyone that saw Feliciano Lopez play an incredible match against Andre rube Lev, a few days ago, the Spanish crowd the the feeling of the home crowd, like Rohan said, going against the home crowd as the AWARE team. You know, it's very special to have that in our sport. And I think we have to really, really protect that. And he tackled those topics. He speaks very well. I see him as being someone that in Indian tennis, but also maybe well tennis is going to play a big role over the next over the next few years. Because I bet you're there's not anybody that doesn't like doesn't listen to Rohan Bopanna. I can keep going. But I'm not going to because yeah, he must be sick of me by now. But I as always, thank you all for your support. Thank you for our ratings, our reviews, it's Christmas time it's the Christmas spirit. Get yourself on to Apple. Give us a little give us a little review. Tell us about your favorite episodes to date. And our promise to you is we will continue to try and deliver on our promise I hope Rohan can come up with the goods with Denis Shapovalov is certainly going to reach out to him. So let's see if he might come to us in the new year. As lots more exciting names we'll do we'll have one or two more episodes before Christmas. We're going to be bringing to you In our review of the year so many learning so many tech and takeaways from these incredible guests, this is your podcast user. The guys that listen, thank you so much. Until next time, I'm Dan Kiernan and we are control the controllables