2021 Highlights!

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Daniel Kiernan  00:09

Welcome to Control the Controllables I'm Dan Kiernan from SotoTennis Academy in Spain, and we teamed up with Macx Tennis Academy in Ireland. We brought this podcast together to entertain, educate, and energize the tennis community through the different lenses of the sport that we love. From Grand Slam champions to those at grassroots level, from sports journalists to backroom staff. Our aim is truly to get under the bonnet of the tennis world at all levels. So sit back and enjoy the show. Welcome to Episode 146 of Control the Controllables I always love this episode, an opportunity for us to reminisce and go back and listen and talk through our learnings from all of our amazing guests that we've had on the show this year. So the Skupski brothers a big welcome back to Control the Controllables over to Daria Kasatkina. So sit back and enjoy. And I'm gonna pass you over to Jimmy Arias to Facu Lugones to Paul Annacone to Luke Jensen to Holger Rune so Matt Little a big welcome to Control the Controllables Rohan Bopanna Tom Gullickson Carl Maes Mize so here he is speaking live from SotoTennis Academy Dom Inglot Fran Jones Rajeev Ram Iga Swiatek, so the Wimbledon Mixed Doubles Champions 2021 player and coach Welcome to Control the Controllables Louie Cayer Dr. Jim Loehr. So Nick Bolletieri, a big welcome to Control the Controllables how're you doing?

Nick Bolletieri  01:58

I'm always doing fine baby. No sense complaining. Remember, excuses don't pay the bills.

Daniel Kiernan  02:06

And then there is Nick Bolletieri. I dare you to not have a smile on your face as you as you listen to coach Nick. Speak. And yeah, just hearing hearing all of those back over the last few days going through this year's episodes on incredible year. It's been for Control the Controllables A big thank you to all of you out there that have been supporting us. And as ever I have Vicki next to me. And what a year it's been.

Victoria Kiernan  02:38

I've loved reminiscing the last few days going back listening to clips and listening to some of my favorite episodes. Nick Bollettieri is definitely up there. He makes me smile every time I listen to him.

Daniel Kiernan  02:49

Vicki does like speaking about her favorites. And I reckon we'll get to that later in the show.

Victoria Kiernan  02:55

It was so hard it really was I still I think I've got her there. I do think I've got my favorite now

Daniel Kiernan  02:59

She hasn't, she's still she's still deciding who she'll be arming and airing her way through. But we will get to that. And hopefully she'll keep it concise when we get there. But that'll be coming to you later in the episode. As we said, when we first set this podcast up, the aim was to educate to energize and to entertain you guys, firstly through the lockdown period. And that's now moved into. Yeah, who knows how long we'll go. But we very much a setting this show up this end of year review with that structure in mind. So we'll be getting to all of our learnings, all of our favorite episodes. But at this point, I would also just like to mention the challenging year that we have all had 2021 we remain in a global pandemic, the COVID times have hit many people hard. And I really hope everyone's doing okay from the quarantine time to the passing away of family members. I think we all have the same thing in common that there has been some real challenging times. Hope everyone's doing well. And I really do hope that this podcast as well as many other great podcasts have helped you through some difficult times sitting in the house quarantining not traveling quite as much as one used to do and I know Vicky for one is happy about that because I've been a little bit more home than usual over the over the last couple of years. And the last thing that's been a challenge on our side, and I'm sure that many of you can relate to this is time. You know, and how do you find time to fit everything in and finding a way of prioritizing things and we are certainly continuing to prioritize Control the Controllables bringing these amazing guests to you.

Victoria Kiernan  04:51

I think it has helped that you have been at home a lot more because I know at the back end of this year you were starting to travel a lot more with the academy. And we certainly had a few stumbling blocks along the way, trying to get podcasts recorded and edited. But we picked a few skills up along the way with that also

Daniel Kiernan  05:11

Gives me an idea that I'm seeing social media. And I'm seeing everybody flying off to Australia. And I have to say, I'm very jealous to see everybody going to what is my favorite Grand Slam out there. But maybe next time I travel when I get one of those nice planes that have Wi Fi on, maybe we can do. We could do a podcast live from the air, you know, and that could be another

Victoria Kiernan  05:37

We had a hard enough time doing a live podcast from SotoTennis academy, let alone, let alone that. Here we had our first live podcast back in April was it with British doubles player Dom Inglot,

Daniel Kiernan  05:50

One of our many firsts of 2021 our first live podcast, as you mentioned, with Dom Inglot, Episode 107. If you could have seen us setting up the tables on the first hardcourt at SotoTennis Academy, surely distance socially distance trying to get the microphones working. And yeah, I'm not sure 100% worked as a live as such. But it certainly did as a podcast, Dom Inglot was one of our many amazing guests came across so well spoke so well. And loved it so much that he's actually set his own podcast up now has a all on the back all on the back of his Control the Controllables. So Dom, if you're listening, I hope you're gonna give us a shout out for the inspiration for your fantastic podcast as well.

Victoria Kiernan  06:40

He'llbe very good he spoke so well. And in fact, you spoke so well, that the listeners who tuned into the Zoom and we were meant to be asking him questions at the end. You guys were like two hours, and we ran out of time for them to ask any questions. That was Yeah, didn't work. But I can totally see why he would do a really good show for sure. In fact, I think it's his episode was really good one for players, he has so many good messages. And here's a clip of one of the things that he'd learnt from US college and how it had helped his mindset.

Dom Inglot  07:13

If things weren't going my way, I would have a hissy fit, I throw the toys out the pram. And if I'm being brutally honest, I'd probably give up in a lot of matches. Because the mindset I had was, if I'm giving everything I've got, and I'm losing, then I'm a loser. And I don't want to be a loser. So therefore, I will give myself the excuse of saying that I gave up at the end. And that's why I lost. And what college tennis taught me was, you're a loser. If you don't give it everything that you've got. Outcome is not the important thing. It's your mindset and what you put into something. And if you're not giving everything, that's when you're a loser.

Daniel Kiernan  07:56

And there you go control the controllables. It comes up everywhere. And I find myself in most episodes nodding my head, just thinking how it feeds into control the controllables. It did with that great message from Dom. It also did on our other podcast live that we did. We use social media channels to actually host a live show when we when we ran the progress tour back in October, where we had the executive chairman of GymShark, Steve uite, who was also episode 64 on the show last year, and our performance director Carl Maes, who they took questions from the audience, the live audience, but also took questions online. There was some amazing awards and GymShark vouchers that were given out. And once again, those messages were very much around, Control the Controllables and, and doing all of these things in your power on a daily basis. And a big thank you to Steve and Carl for that because that was a big standout on the year as well.

Victoria Kiernan  09:00

Another first we had was our first reigning Grand Slam champion on the show, Iga Swiatek. And that was an interesting one as well, because she was at the academy training for three weeks or so we're getting ready for the claycourt season. But you had to go home and do the episode on Zoom to keep because of the social distancing rules.

Daniel Kiernan  09:22

I think I've struggled to do one that's not on Zoom. I've got I'm sorry. I'm so used to the Zoom now and I think, you know, speaking to all of these big celebrities and big names in the sport, I might get a little bit nervous if it's face to face and and I think with Iga. She was the reigning Roland Garros champion at the time. I think that one thing that certainly went in in my favor and maybe Iga's as well as we got to know each other a few days before. She's a lovely young girl. And we'd actually spoken a lot about her tennis and her career beforehand so it felt much easier to go into that comfortable conversation. You know, she spoke in depth about how she felt, you know, we all think of the we all think of the holy grail of winning a Grand Slam. And then everything just goes away and just vanishes. You know, and that's what we're all fighting for, as players, coaches and parents whereas actually here we are at a 19 year old, just won her first Grand Slam. And she talked about how her life had changed, not just for the better, but also all of the anxieties, the difficulties that went with, because of the expansion, because of the expectation that she had on her on her head at that point. And I thought it was also really interesting, when she talked so much about Daria, who was her sports psychologist who she travels with pretty much 52 weeks a year. And the fact that she's got to be one of the first professional tennis players to travel with a sports psychologist. And it was fantastic to have Daria on the show as well.

Victoria Kiernan  10:58

Yeah, it was it. My other favorite, which was a slightly different one we did this year was the Brits at Wimbledon. It was a preview to this year's tournament. And we had 10 former and current British players talking about their experiences. And some really funny stories came out my favorite actually was Lee Charles, who was sitting at the back end of one of his matches, he was playing on one of the outside courts, and he ran for a ball slipped over. And as he went down, he could hear his dad shouting, get up, get up. So that was a really interesting one and good for your good practice for your interviewing skills, making sure that all 10 people were getting a chance to speak

Daniel Kiernan  11:37

I think it was it was relatively easy because they they bounced off each other so well. I think that the bigger challenge was keeping people into some sort of structure and not going off on tangents and talking about nights out and talking about all of these different things, because I think they were all so familiar with with each other. And I think my big one on that. And I had this question in my head before that, and I'd like to give Kyle Spencer a shout out for his eye. He gave me the idea of of that episode. But I've always had in my head is Wimbledon, good for British tennis, you know, and I think the the obvious answer to that is yes. However, just listening to these Brits and talking about the challenges of being British at that time of the year, may be how people drop their standards because they don't have to be ranked so high to get wildcards. You know, I'm of the opinion that maybe Wimbledon hasn't always been the best thing for British tennis. Without doubt, it's the best tournament in the world. So that sounds a bit silly saying that. But I'll just leave that question for you. Send us your thoughts in is Wimbledon good for British tennis.

Victoria Kiernan  12:48

What were you saying about tangents?

Daniel Kiernan  12:51

I've got plenty of tangents. Don't, don't you worry about that. But hopefully you might edit some of them out.

Victoria Kiernan  12:56

Well, speaking of Wimbledon, we also had a few exclusives on the show this year, but one of them was with Desirae Krawcyk and Neal skupski Who we spoke to just after they won the mixed doubles this year at Wimbledon. And that was a really interesting one because Desarae had just won the French Open mixed doubles with Joe Salisbury. So you have them both on the show. And your question was, you know, who is she going to choose to play with? Next?

Daniel Kiernan  13:22

I'm fascinated by this point. And the spotlight goes under dares for the next couple of minutes because winning the French Open with Joe Salisbury. My first question is why would you not continue playing with Joe Salisbury at Wimbledon? Three weeks later?

Desirae Krawczyk  13:44

I think that's a question for Joe. I mean, I'm

Daniel Kiernan  13:48

So Joe dumped you.

Desirae Krawczyk  13:50

I think well, I mean, technically, yes. But

Daniel Kiernan  13:55

oh, is fine. Now it's all the most satisfying.

Desirae Krawczyk  13:58

Youknow what I literally what I look forward to was just okay, we're playing John finals. We're gonna beat him because I want to prove a point.

Daniel Kiernan  14:09

So then, so then the next question, which I'm sure this is an easy answer, who you're going to be playing with at the US Open

Desirae Krawczyk  14:17

I'm playing with Joe. What do you what is it? What shakes their heads?

Daniel Kiernan  14:26

How do you feel about that, Neil?

Neal Skupski  14:28

Oh, God. I mean, that was a tough one to take real, isn't it? I mean, she gets some fight, Joe, and then we went back to Joe. I mean, it's amazing.

Daniel Kiernan  14:41

Can we agree that you guys are playing on the open 2022? Can we like

Neal Skupski  14:46

a lot of pressure? I think going back and forth with Joe and Neil. I mean, Jesus is like, yeah, it's tough. Hopefully we can get saturated by Wimbledon next year to try and defend our title but well But I'm already agreeing to that. Let's go. Okay, perfect.

Daniel Kiernan  15:05

So control the controllables exclusive.

Victoria Kiernan  15:10

I can't help but feel she was bullied into that a little bit. But it's an interesting one because she then went on to win the US Open mixed with Joe again, having beaten Joe Salisbury in the final. So he's made all three finals, she's won all three finals. So who do you think she's going to play with? I don't know if she'll stick to that promise about Wimbledon. If she played. She will,

Daniel Kiernan  15:30

She'll play with Joe in Australia, I'm convinced of that. And yet, it's not really been a story that's been picked up that much, she's going for the mixed doubles Grand Slam. And I don't know the ins and outs of this, but I can't imagine that's been done. Too often. Maybe Martina Navratilova, who seems to have won a hell of a lot of Grand Slam events in her time. But yeah, I think her and Joe seemed to have that have that partnership. I think it is an amazing story. It was it was so nice for me to be involved in, in that banter, you know, the fun together great fun and banter. And then we spoke to Joe Salisbury about the same thing. And, you know, it's so lovely to see that human side of these of these sporting stars, who are who are winning Grand Slam titles. And talking of talking of sporting stars, I think, you know, the Australian Open is something that's a hot topic, once again, you know, poor Craig Tiley and his crew that are having to deal with all of the quarantine issues and the challenges and well know that joke of its plan has he been double vaccinated. And that was an unbelievable exclusive that was just dropped in, you know, as I'm talking to him and my son's bedroom, and he just drops in that if you're not double vaccinated, the conditions will be different than in Australia. And you know, he that was that was then picked up by some national newspapers. In the UK. The rules have slightly changed since then. But to have someone of his stature come on to the podcast, and give us an exclusive like that really was another fantastic moment. It was, and to move in now, I think into the educational side, this is your area, I think I love a good story. But you really like the learning that you're getting from the podcast. What would you say are your kind of main key takeaways from this year that I know there's been so many, but if you could bring, bring it down to a few, It will be really it's really hard. And in this this was this was a big challenge to do this? Because I've honestly learned so much from all 54 episodes. And until then go right. What what are the key messages to take through and we've tried to pull some of the messages out. I think there's quite a few messages that we're going to leave out there. Because otherwise this podcast will be five or six hours. And I'm sure that you will all have your own. But the first one that I picked out was It was the era of Emma Raducanu. And then if you mentioned 2021, certainly, to a British person, but I would imagine around the world when we go back to to that day, and New York, New York City, it didn't matter where you were you stopped you watch that match with Leylah Fernandez. And I was having friends text me who have never watched a tennis match before who were texting me saying Come on, who's gonna win who's gonna win. And it was it was incredible out I was in an apartment with Evan Hoyt in Portugal, you know, we made a meal around it. And it was like I say Emma Raducanu stole everyone's heart last year. So to have the opportunity to have her childhood coach, coached her between the ages of nine and 13, you know, pretty informative years come on in Alice to filmer. And one of the big takeaways I took was with Emma and what he spoke about with me, even at that age, and this is the same with all of these amazing champions, is just how intrinsically motivated they are, you know, they're doing the extra it's not just ticking a box and then getting out of there. It's about doing the extra he talked in good detail about this. And if you haven't listened to this episode, Episode 134 With Alistair Filmer, I would I would really recommend that there's so much educational information in there on developing a champion from such a young age. But I think one of my one of my favorites on the on the educational side of things was Facu Lugones coach of the air ATP Coach of the Year coach of camera Nori, a big friend of the of the podcast and I wanted to ask him, you know, what, what was the real secret and what has been the real secret in producing so many tennis players out of Argentina?

Facu Lugones  19:52

There's just so many players on the same area. They all go to when Osiris and search all the former good players players from the In the 90s they all stay in tennis and they all coaches most of them. So obviously you have a lot of people playing tennis, a lot of good athletes and a lot of good people teaching them you know, and a lot of competition there and also a lot of good examples of how things are need to be done to get to the top level and then there's basically no Federation now they're doing a much better job it's all the former players running it okay, but before very little support they don't own any courts any James so you have to do it on your own which in sometimes I think it helps players because makes you more hungry and you have to fight for everything harder, you don't get rackets, you don't get anything. You have to pay for everything. So when you're when you're in the crunchy in the deep in the third, I think that helps you to be a little more closer, a little bit tougher. So I think it's a it's a good combination of kind of finding ways, but also a lot of people showing you how it's done.

Daniel Kiernan  20:57

I don't think we need to go any further. We've now learned what we need to do. Then all of these Federation's that are that are struggling.

Facu Lugones  21:05

Yeah, a lot of players. Not all of them, but most of the Argentinian players are made it they either borrow money from a sponsor, and they have they paid it back when they were top 200. Yeah, they go in debt, or some a friend of them help them. So you know, when, when is your money on the line or someone else's money, you probably going to fight harder, and you're gonna work harder, you take it more, more serious. So I think that that kind of helps.

Daniel Kiernan  21:30

Do you think that there's some players that like, even if you go from your time, and I know you were kind of Diego Schwartzman 's age, you know, grew up playing with the ego. Is there some players that you think didn't make it? Because they didn't have the financial backing? Or do you think that if you're good enough, you find a way?

Facu Lugones  21:51

I think yeah, if you really want it if you're good enough, you can find a way it might take you two or three more years than the rest? Of course, he I don't know you don't have a team around you're gonna have a person traveling with you. 24/7. But I think if you're really hungry and and you you really put in the work and you believe in yourself, I think money shouldn't be an issue unless you just cannot travel anywhere. But I think yeah, I know, I know guys, I've made it with with nothing. Pretty much. They just play futures in Argentina 1520 Future few challengers. They were a little money. They went to Europe for six months. They say they're the one and once you get to two 202 50 Then you can you have a real shot. But yeah, I think that's that's an excuse. Not having the the money to make it.

Daniel Kiernan  22:43

And there's the little reminder for me, of my croaky voice, which seemed to us the month, the month, so I apologize to all the listeners. I don't remember it quite sounding as bad as that. So it's a big apologies. But yeah, my big takeaway is, it's my favorite message. It's my big message that I get from so many of these episodes. And it's that ultimate ownership, you know, how many how many of us look to excuse and justify and now you've got at the ATP Coach of the Year. You know, if you want it badly enough, you'll you'll find a way. You know, you'll find a way nobody would have put Cameron Norrie, as well number 12, you know, and he certainly found his way to get there and had an incredible year

Victoria Kiernan  23:26

that was mentioned actually quite a few episodes really owning your tennis and your Aleister filmer brought it up as well Bora Coric Francesca Jones, ah, done it again. Church we were told off about this and I'm still saying it wrong. Born a church, a great episode, and Francesca Jones, who actually will hear from later on. One more. I'll give you one more before we move to my stories.

Daniel Kiernan  23:51

I'll do you a deal. I'll give you one more choice on the Educate if I can have one more choice and then I'll steal one back for Energize. Okay.

Victoria Kiernan  24:01

Matt Little Andy Murray's s&c, coach, everyone in Great Britain will know Matt little. He was amazing, awesome Episode, Soft Skills versus hard skills. You know, he's been working with Andy for 14 years. And a big question that you asked him was how he's managed to keep that relationship. So fresh,

Matt Little  24:25

time apart. You know, say rest same thing, you know, breaks. I like to think that I I've had reasonable feel for situations time when to open my mouth time when to take a little back step and listen more. I know generally, how Andy's feeling without him having to say something. You know, in any situation, because we've been together that long. I feel like even if we're in a meeting, something gets said, I'll know how he's gonna feel. We're on the court. Something happens I know how he's gonna feel so, so because I know Most of the time, I get it wrong. But most of the time, I feel like I can kind of negotiate around things. And then recognize moments where, which are coachable moments where the when the door opens, and a question gets asked, or there's a problem, which I think I've got an answer to, that's when I go in heavy, I pick those moments and the rest of the time, I skate around, listen, watch, and just try and try and help feel through situations. I think in some ways, I think I can help the rest of the team with that little bit as well. In being that kind of absorbing different parts of the team and their emotions and how they're feeling about different things. And how Andy's feeling, I think, because I've been in there for a while. Yeah, I feel like I can do that quite well. So which is which is a strange thing, because it's not a it's not an official role. You know, it's not a job title that. But actually, I think it's quite an important skill sets of when you're working in a team to be that sort

Daniel Kiernan  25:59

of skills, it's that it's the soft skills that yeah, that not everyone has.

Matt Little  26:05

No, no, not everybody has them, you know, and the thing is, and I talk about it, much shamelessly plug in. But, you know, there are people in life whose hard skills are so unbelievably good, that people will put up with them being around anyway, in, they've got no personal skills whatsoever. Because they're so good at what they do. It's like, well, you know, I need that person, you know, so even if they disrupt the team, or even if they're, you know, they, for some stress, actually, they're so good at what they do, I need them around. But for the vast majority of the rest of us, who are good at what we do, but you know, not necessarily, it's kind of, you've got to find a way around situations and not be likable, not be a sycophant, but get along to go along as well, you know, because players aren't going to put up with you very long if they if they don't think you're good to have around. And, you know, it's funny, so many people said to me, about, you know, how Andy is on the court, you know, look, you know, what, if he was like that with me, or if he ever said something like that to me on the court, I tell him what to shove it and I've walked off, and all of those type things, you know, if he was displaying those behaviors to me on part of that, and that's absolutely fine. I don't ever react, that's everyone has their way. But if we did do that, as a team, if we did always react emotionally, then it's not going to work in the team environment being that way, you know, again, probably with a junior player. I could be more kind of dogmatic like that and say, right, I'm not putting up with that behavior. This isn't good, whatever. But actually, you know, as a team, we've spoken about that side of things a lot.

Daniel Kiernan  27:55

What, what a guy Matt is, do you not? I mean, I think I would have Matt in my team. Even if he wasn't an s&c Coach, just as like, as just someone to just bring team morale up someone to just, he just seems to be someone who really is the glue within a team and, and I think it shouldn't be ever underestimated how amazing those skills are. Now, I've heard firsthand how good Matt is as an s&c coach. So you add in you add in his hard skills of what he's like, as an s&c coach on top of his soft skills and his personal skills. And you've really truly have an international class person that obviously has worked with with the world's best for many for many, many, many years. And I thank Matt for coming onto the show and sharing with such insight. So is it my last one, your last one? So my last one, it's it's two messages in one. And it's it was said by a few people over over the course of the year, but control the controllables and, and high standards and low expectations and, and throughout the episode with Alexa, grouchy this came out quite strongly. There was also Daria Abramovic, the sports psychologist for Iga Swiatek about this in a lot of detail as well. But this was a little short clip, and I think I like this the most because she actually talks about controlling the controllables Is it a benefit or is it a burden to have? Parents has tennis coaches? Yeah,

Alexa Guarachi  29:39

I mean, looking back now, I think it's a huge benefit. But when I was in the moment, then I would be like it's a burden. This sucks. Like, you know, it's hard to see the big picture though. When you're that young and you're growing up. My dad My parents were so hard on me, you know, my dad expected so much. I get the second place in a turn. Man, and he would pull over the side of the road and throw away my trophy and be like, this isn't good enough, you know? And so I always had this high expectation of like, okay, I need, like, this is like what I really need to do I need to be number one, you know, I need to be the best at what I'm doing. And it's funny because, yeah, looking back now I'm like, I'm so glad my dad pushed me there's, I can't even tell you how many times I was like, I'm quitting. I'm done. This is it, you know, I would lose. Imagine you take away my cell phone back then, you know, and like, I'm like, what other 14 year old girl's getting their cell phone taken away by their dad when they lose a tennis match? You know? So, you know, looking back, I'm like, Okay, I wish he would have done some of those things. But I'm glad he did. Because he instilled this, I don't know, this. This like hard work mentality for me that I look back. And I'm like, Okay, I'm really happy. I did that. And I worked that hard.

Daniel Kiernan  30:54

But being tough on the results, because I think this is a fascinating subject. It because you'll obviously you'll have you'll have different shells of thought on this. You know, the toughness coming on the result or the toughness coming on the work ethic, I guess the concern that I would have with with some, some players and I see it as when the parents are so tough on the results, that they learned to hate tennis that it potentially brings mental health problems down the line. They have a negative association with the sport. Yeah. Whereas

Alexa Guarachi  31:28

if it was kind of both, it was like both for me. I mean, he was tough on both, but then around 15 Sorry to interrupt you, oh, no, I was like 13, I actually got sent, I was started being homeschooled. And I got sent up to a family friend's house up in Birmingham, Alabama. And I lived with them. And he was a he's a financial investor has his own firm. And then he also was like a football coach. And he specialized in like mental toughness, stuff like that. And so as a 13 year old, I started going out there. And it was the best thing that my parents ever did actually was trusting someone else. Because I needed to get at that age, I needed to kind of spread my wings and get away from my parents. Because it was just going to be tough for me to kind of grow. And I was wanting to rebel. And so I went up there and I got he instilled this, like work ethic in me. And it was I learned so much. It's funny, because your podcast is can control theuncontrollables

Daniel Kiernan  32:28

Control the Controllables

Alexa Guarachi  32:30

Control the Controllables Yeah, so that's one of the first things he instilled in me actually was what can you control, and so much of it was, you can control you know, your work ethic, how hard you fight, you can control, you're like, being positive, always was being positive, you know, and working hard. So that for me, it was like, learning those things being like, Okay, if I work really hard, and I stay positive, like good things will come, you know, I just have to trust myself and believe in myself. And you never know what whatever, that whatever happens happens, you know, I just believe that, you know, like, I mean, I'm, I'm pretty religious. And so I just really believe that God has a plan for all of us. And I believe that, like, whatever is meant to happen, does happen is gonna happen. And he has a plan. And I mean, that was one of my big things is I tore my ACL when I was 23, or 24. And that was a huge changing moment shift in my career. After that, I really was like, do I want to do this or not, I contemplated being done. And I decided, I was like, Well, I want to be a healthy human being number one. So I'm gonna have to rehab my knee, I'm gonna have to get surgery. But I really want to give this everything I have, I don't want to like hold back anything, you know. And when I came back on tour, after that, I was like, I knew I had such a different mindset of like, you never know when it's your last moment when it's your last match when it's your last practice, like, just give everything that you have.

Victoria Kiernan  34:02

I think she's brilliant. I don't know if I said it at the time. I think I did. But I would have loved to have had her as my doubles partner. Can imagine the pep talk she'd be giving you between points.

Daniel Kiernan  34:12

But isn't it interesting that she didn't have that when she was young? You know, and I think, you know, she had people in her life that was setting the standards, setting the high standards, you know, and then as she's gone on, and that's what I love about controller controllables because an expectation is is not controllable, so low that what is a controllable is are your standards, your standards of warmups, your standards of what time you go to bed, your standards of efforts that you put in, and I think she talked about that I actually challenged her on a couple of times. It's a great episode to listen to but another amazing guest, Episode 133 For anyone who wants to listen to that one again. But before we lose everyone, let's move into energize because The amount of times I've gone into episodes, tired, long days, three children, moaning wife,

Victoria Kiernan  35:09

I could feel that coming.

Daniel Kiernan  35:11

I always, always come out of the chat feeling highly energized. And and that alone is a privilege for me to be able to have that in my life. And I really hope that these guests energizing you as the listeners as well.

Victoria Kiernan  35:27

And I think for energizing, the best guests are often the most inspirational. And I think Marcus Daniell really comes under that.

Daniel Kiernan  35:36

Absolutely. And we talk about not everyone is going to be motivated all the time. However, having having a level of discipline, but also a level of purpose, and really, truly connecting to your purpose in your reason, will get you out of bed in the morning, it's the best alarm clock that you can ever have. And Marcus Daniell is hit the absolute jackpot on this, you know, he's doing something that's bigger now than he's tennis, every tennis match that he wins means more than just being able to text his mates on WhatsApp and say that he's won. And I think if we all listened to Marcus, Daniel, we all take his story on board, and we all act in the way that he does, the world would be a much, much better place.

Marcus Daniell  36:25

Sure, yeah, this is something I've been involved with. Actually, I think since about 2015, or 2016. Basically, since the first year that I managed to save some money on tour. Because it is a it's it's sort of an unfortunate truth that tennis is a very self centered sport. And that's never sat perfectly with me. So when I had a chance to try and even the scales a little bit, jumped on it and discovered Effective Altruism in 2015. And it just resonated completely with me the idea of doing the most good possible with your resources. So for that, that, for me, at the time meant a little bit of money that I could give and being able to advocate for these ideas that I felt strongly about. And yeah, so and that pledge grew until last year, I gave a little over 10%. This year, at the start of the year, I made the giving what we can pledge, which is pledging 10%, minimum of your income to the most effective charities in the world for the rest of your life feels really, really good. It's been a fundamentally good shift for me in my career to feel like I'm playing for something bigger than myself. And it's also really cool. It means that every time I step on a match court, every time I win a match, I feel great for myself. But I also feel great, because I know that at the end of the year, I'm going to donate a little more and change or save the lives of a bunch of humans or animals or improve the environment, that sort of thing. And yeah, and then and then last year when COVID hit. And like I said earlier, we lost our income and we lost all certainty of income in the future, I was wondering how I could increase my own positive impact on the world. And I didn't feel like I could give more money at the time. But I knew I could be a better advocate. So that led me to the idea of starting an organization where I could try and bring more athletes on board and try to spread these ideas of giving effectively and doing the most good with Every Dollar as possible. And that was that that was the conception of high impact athletes. And we launched early December last year. And actually it's it's grown rapidly. It's it's been amazing. You know, two months later, we had eight HIA athletes in the quarterfinals of the Australian Open. And that was just incredibly special. And now we're representing I think probably around 15 to 20 different sports and lots of tennis players are on board and it just keeps me keeps growing exponentially. And I'm super excited about the potential impacts that we can have on the world as we grow.

Daniel Kiernan  39:04

Well, well done. It's done. No, seriously, Marcus, it really isn't. I think for for those listening. I mean, we'll have all of the links on this podcast. And it certainly got me thinking for the last few days. And I think if we are living in a world where we're all doing what we can to give the best that we possibly can with the resources that we have, what what a world that would be?

Victoria Kiernan  39:28

Well, as well as giving him an extra reason for playing. I think it gives us all an extra reason to be cheering him on.

Daniel Kiernan  39:34

Yeah, it's like it's like he's Superman, and I don't want everyone to get scared off thinking you have to have such a strong purpose. Of course it helps. And Marcus has taken till quite late in his career to get to that point. Whereas in Episode 128, with Arthur fairy, the young British player, His purpose is just to have fun and what a Lovely, refreshing way to look at your tennis. And what's the one best bit of advice that she gave you when you were younger? That potentially you didn't realize it was a good piece of advice until you started to get into your late teens and move into adulthood?

Arthur Fery  40:19

I wouldn't have one in particular, I would, I would say like, the fact that she never put any pressure on me and always, like, made sure I was having fun whilst playing tennis was important and that I didn't realize how much improvement is linked to having fun on court and enjoying the game.

Daniel Kiernan  40:38

Very good. Can you give us an example? Give us an example of how how do you make somebody have fun,

Arthur Fery  40:46

play a type of game style that they enjoy. I mean, for me, especially with my personality, it's very, very key that I enjoy playing. Otherwise, I tend to play a very non like, monotonous game. And that's why I don't excel and I don't have fun either. So for me is always being trying to be creative and do things that you're not necessarily comfortable doing. Not always playing the same, the same ball, same game style. That's for me anyway.

Victoria Kiernan  41:17

I love that bit when he says I didn't realize how much improvement was linked to having fun on core. I think there's so many people that don't link the two either, including probably us both when we were younger, and a lot of players and parents now.

Daniel Kiernan  41:31

Absolutely Arthur if you ever looking for a coach is someone who I'd love to travel with, you know, they have someone that that gets life that gets the connection between life and tennis, you know, absolutely brilliant and well done to his family and coaches around him. And our last one for energizing Francesca Jones what an energizer from the moment that our video call LinkedIn. I just felt like I just wanted to just shout from the rooftops wanted to go out there smack tennis balls around. So what was what was your favorite bit of that? Because there was so many energizing and inspiring parts of that episode?

Victoria Kiernan  42:14

Well I can't mention it without ruining the story. So I'll let Francesca Jones tell it but no, no, because you can't say I will confirm the action that he's doing after we've listened to the to the clip. But yes, you are correct. But yeah, you asked her to share one story that's had the biggest impact on her from traveling. And she told us this one from when she played 2 15 K's in Argentina,

Fran Jones  42:42

I went to a village called via Maria church, in Argentina. And I couldn't quite believe where I found myself. And we got to the airport, which was three hours away. And this taxi driver we would organize with taxi driver to pick us up. And of course in Argentina, you know, a three hour tattoos equivalent of a 10, a 1010 minute taxi in London. And this man picked us up and you know, when you go to these places, I'm fortunate enough that I speak Spanish. But if I didn't, I'd be even more tentative around these people. And he's picking us up and I'm thinking you know, I really don't know who this guy is. But he has a quite a humbled look about him. Very welcoming, welcoming face. And I'm really excited that, you know, these two foreigners were going to be in his village. And so anyway, he drives us to the hotel and I was like how much I owe you a fair amount. I paid him for the for the trip. And then, you know, he says, Well, when you plan off, you know, maybe Tuesday I got there about four days before. Well, you're not gonna go to the club before he says you know, so well. Yeah, we'll go everyday to train and then when I play my match up very much. He's like, Alright, okay, well just message me when you when you're going to be playing and I'll take you to train and I'll tell you too much. So I messaged him, I thought, okay, let's, let's give it a try. I wanted to have faith and in the person I didn't want to judge. Nine he takes me to a club. He's actually when you finish practice in about an hour and a half. Okay, I'll take you back. So, finished my practice at about 11. And is that to pick me up takes me back to the hotel. And I was like, Okay, we're going back this evening. So hopefully we'll see you around. Is that okay? What are you picking up? Something happened every single day, every single day. I won the tournament and we got to the final. And on the day of the final. He was there five minutes before we'd agreed taught me so when I finished the final, he says, I'm so happy for you like it's been a pleasure. And I said okay, well, you know, how much do I owe you for all the trips? And we're talking about 10 minute trips there and back. And he goes, Oh, me. It's my pleasure. You don't owe me anything. And so at this point, I'm thinking Hold on. I feel a bit uncomfortable here like I should pay him for these trips around and I'm not sure if he's, if I If I'm being too trusting here, and something might happen later where he and I don't want opinions here, so I started Okay, well, let me let me take you and your family out to dinner because that's the least I can do. I've won the tournament, you know, I want to take you to a nice dinner, we found this one restaurant based on a vineyard, that was phenomenal. And I took them there. And we finished and you said, that's the best meal of my life. And it was him his two daughters and his mom, unfortunately, his wife and passed away from cancer and, and to this day, we're talking about three years now. I message him or he messages me once a quarter to check in. Yeah, I think the relationship I mean, I have goose bumps now. But if one day, there's something I can do to move his family to a better place, I will for sure. I

Victoria Kiernan  45:49

I think that story gave both of us goosebumps when we heard it the first time

Daniel Kiernan  45:53

About to say anybody, anybody not got goosebumps, listening, listening to that story.

Victoria Kiernan  45:59

And yet the driving action you were giving me? Yeah, you got the taxi story. It had to be that one. It was so lovely.

Daniel Kiernan  46:06

Well, you are a sucker for an emotional story. So I am in that one. I knew that that one had got your good. It is an incredible story. It says so much about Fran Jones and and everything that she stands for. So now now the bit that you've been waiting for Vicki, because it's the storytellers and oh my goodness, we've had some amazing storytellers on the on the show. And so which, which one are you going to start with?

Victoria Kiernan  46:35

I think we're going to start with Paul Annacone. Talking about Roger Federer, when he played Andy Murray in the final of Wimbledon in 2012. And you asked him what it was like to be on the winning side that day,

Paul Annacone  46:52

the biggest goal we had, and I don't believe too much in result oriented goals for players at that stage. But when we started working together, Roger wanted to get back to number one, and he wanted to win another major. And so that so that day, that happened, he won. And then a few weeks later, I think he became number one again, so that was great. But I just remember him being you know, he's always very calm. You know, I know he's nervous inside, but he's always very calm. And he just knew Andy was a great player. And he knew he had to serve well. And he knew he had to do a good job taking advantage of Andy second serve. And Andy started off really well playing really good tennis, and did Andy when the first set and then Roger won the next three maybe? Is that what it was? Yeah, he did. And so, but I just remember again, Roger, oh, and I never felt I never felt any sense of urgency or panic. And I remember, you know, when they came in on the rain delay, I forget what the score was. And Roger sitting down. And I said, So what do you think, pal? And you know, and he was just like, he was very, you know, he said, it's just gotta get a little bit clearer on on the second server turns, I gotta get the first strike and more often, and he just went through like two or three simple things really, totally unemotional just about what the match was. And then he went out there and just did it. And that's kind of the beauty of Roger Federer is that he, he makes it very simplistic and clear. And then he just goes and tries to do it, you know, and for me, I felt horrible for it. Because I'm a huge Andy Murray fan. And obviously, with my history, working with LTA for four years, you know, I, I, it was hard for me to watch Andy not win until he did win a major, you know, because I'm a huge fan, one of the hardest workers that's ever played the game unbelievably gifted. So that was rough to see. For, for me as Andy's, you know, as a fan and friend of Andy, but I was so thrilled for Roger to see him come back and win that and it brought a ton of joy to my heart. And then actually, I was there a few weeks later when Andy got the gold medal from him in the finals of the Olympics at the All England Club so that was a it was a great day for Andy to win gold and Roger was you know, disappointed but so thrilled and proud to have a silver and he's good about the perspective stuff Roger gets that you know, and then and then didn't Andy go on to win the US Open right now? Yeah. So So yeah, that was the beginning of his solidification into greatness.

Daniel Kiernan  49:23

That guy I mean, Paul amicale know he talked about Silk you know, just everyone calm this the assuredness that on Wilson Thus, for anyone who watches Hollywood films, he reminds me so much of on Wilson, the voices, voices almost identical. That just I could have listened for hours. I could have listened to his stories for hours. Yet he somehow made me feel as if we were on the level just talking about tennis, and he has coached Pete Sampras, Roger Federer, Tim Henman, Taylor Fritz You know, he really was an is an incredible coach. And what I just love about it is an incredible human being as well who's happy to share these these insights. And once again, I just feel very privileged that we're in that position to have those conversations.

Victoria Kiernan  50:18

Oh, it's out and out yet one of my favorites and the link to Pete Sampras as well is another one, which I think is probably number one, the episode with Tom Gullickson. Or that got me that really did get the

Daniel Kiernan  50:35

Kleenex is ready.

Victoria Kiernan  50:36

Yeah, it was who had some unbelievable stories. It was very emotional. He talked about his late brother Tim Gullickson, who was Pete sampras's coach, and actually it was Paul anacreon. Who took over when Tim fell ill for me, this is a must listen episode. He's Captain goalie.

Tom Gullikson  50:56

I don't think coaches and academies and Federation's spend enough time in skill development. When you look at fetter, you know, he goes to a court if you compare him to a bow hunter, okay. He goes out bow hunting, and he's got 20 arrows in his quiver. And if one arrow he misses with one, he grabs another arrow and shoots another arrow. So when he walks on a tennis court, he's got 20. So this is something I learned from my late brother Tim, he was big on this quiver thing. He goes, You know, I want you to have a lot of arrows I want you to have more arrows and the guy that you're playing against and you know, to me coach Sampras for five years, and got him winning Wimbledon every year. Pete's record before he started working with Tim was to first round losses and one second round loss. You had no clue how to play on grass, before he met Tim Gullickson. And, you know, Tim played me every day of his life. So nobody was better at returning a lefty serve. Because I had a good left. He served him he played me every day at a great backhand return. So you know, Timmy taught him how to return serve against the lefty and he won Wimbledon seven out of the next eight years. So not not not a bad not a bad result there for young Pete Sampras. And, you know, Tammy passed away 44 In May of 96. And Pete actually put his

Daniel Kiernan  52:40

take your time.

Tom Gullikson  52:44

Yeah, Pete put his first well moving trophy in the casket. And he said Tim not only taught me how to be a Wimbledon champion, how to be a winner in life. Wimbledon was so touched by that. And obviously, they took the trophy out and gave it to the family and rosemary and the kids. Eric and Megan Wimbledon, who's not in the habit of making it making Wimbledon trophy replicas, they made Pete a replica of that trophy was they were so touched by that one amazing,

Daniel Kiernan  53:24

thank you for sharing that story. And in terms of in terms of Tim, and what I think some sometimes in life, we we don't realize what we have until we lose it. And and, you know, we're talking now 25 years, you know, and how much of an impact is Tim been for you over the last 25 years? Through not being here and the lessons that he taught you and your relationship that you obviously have had? It's also been so special?

Tom Gullikson  54:00

Yeah, well, I still miss him every day. Think about him a lot. And you know, there were kind of over 900 people at his funeral. So he obviously wasn't, you know, there's some people you meet that are real impact players. And you know, Timmy Timmy had a real positive impact. You know, he was he was a hell of a player. He was a great competitor. And he didn't have that many arrows in his quiver. But you know, he would win his matches, eight, six in the fifth. He beat Ramirez one one year in court to Wimbledon, eight, six on the fifth. He took out Johnny Mac in 70 942 and four on port two. And I had lost the Johnny Mac in the third round that year. And so Tim, he's playing Johnny Mac, in the round of 16 on court to he's playing great he always play great against lefties, you know, he's up 646251 just toying with him. I 25354 serving for the match at five 415 40 he serves a second serve, and he stays back and he was a serve and volleyer of the highest order stays back Mac hits that little bump backhand return that he used to hit that block kind of bunts, Timmy takes a short ball ripsi approach comes in knocked off the volley wins like six, four in the in the in the third set, and people go nuts. Obviously McEnroe was a second seed. I think that your court too, of course was called the graveyard court because he didn't like playing there. And Tammy goes in the pressroom after the match and he goes, nobody beats the golly brothers back to back.

Daniel Kiernan  56:08

The moment of 2021 That was for me. And I'll never forget looking at Gully, in the eyes, as he as he talked to me about his late brother Tim, and the intimacy, the intensity, the the motion, and the first time I ever told anyone back I think it was later that day. And I might have been you Vicki or it might have been to somebody else on that day. And the emotion just filled up in me and I had tears in my eyes again. And when we're talking about storytellers, the ability to take someone on that journey with them is is just is just such a an amazing skill. And I have to share a bit of a funniest story on Gully as well, he had just come off the court. This was a few weeks after, and he gave me a call. And he just started telling me a story straightaway. He's like, Darn it. It's golly, here, how was how's things? And I said, Yeah, he had Greg read how you doing. And he went on for about five minutes and told me this most amazing, beautiful story. And then at the end, he said, anyway, you're now in the fog club, friends of gully and Jim lair. Dr. Jim Loehr, who just told the story about is is agreed to come onto your onto your podcast next week. So here's his number, give him a call anyway, I've got to go. And it just it was just amazing. And, and again, I feel so fortunate to now have developed some of these relationships, all because of this podcast. And and I can tell you right now, if you ever want to be entertained, you know, and I can only imagine in one day, golly, if you're listening to this, I'm going to come and see you. I'm going to take you out to dinner. And I'm going to sit there and I'm going to I'm going to listen, I'm going to buy you some beers. And I just want to I just want to hear as many stories as I can because your your ability to storytell really is incredible. And again, I just massively thank you for for bringing that to the podcast,

Victoria Kiernan  58:30

and our net. The next one I want to talk about was actually set up through one of the players at our academy and moved away away slightly from tennis. But he is a tennis fan and he has spent his career reporting on tennis. David Walsh, for those of you who don't know, David Walsh, he's the journalist, the Sunday Times journalist who is credited with helping to bring down the biggest cyclist in the world. At that time, Lance Armstrong, David spent years looking to expose the truth about Lance that he was in fact doping despite all of Lance's strong, strong, strong denials, and he's a great storyteller David, he really took us through that journey and what it was like for him, David,

Daniel Kiernan  59:11

it's so clear to see you know, what you've described, there's such a good story around your values and what what is important to you and how you got into that. But it's one thing to stick to those and stick to that way of doing it in a small town in Dublin, taking on the taken on their head teacher. It's it's another thing to take on, arguably the biggest sporting star in the world at that time. On on something as serious as doping. You know, and that gets the Lance Armstrong story. You know, we all know it. We all know that you were the little troll that chased him. Yeah. You know, how were you able to stay true to what you believed through what I would imagine? It was a very difficult time for you.

David Walsh  1:00:02

Yeah. Now, if I were wishing to be pernickety about this, and you say I was a little troll, that's not strictly true, because what Lance called me was I was the little fucking troll. He was insisted upon, he was always insisted upon my getting the full title. What it actually everybody has said to me over the years, you know, it must have been such a difficult time. I never remembered it like that, maybe, maybe there were times when it was, but it's just not how I remember it. I remember it as being the time of my life, I remember it as feeling more alive during those years, and I've ever felt since. And in a way, there's part of me, that's always trying to, to recreate how I felt then in my leisure journalistic life now,

Daniel Kiernan  1:00:54

And how sure were you Dave, I guess, for you to, for you to keep going. And like I say, if I'm right, the The Times got sued, and it cost the times a lot of money for it for a time. So. So I would imagine the weights getting heavier as those things happen. How sure, were you that that was the truth? It was just about getting it out.

David Walsh  1:01:16

I knew, like guaranteed was the truth. And I knew it from basically the first or second week of Lantus first Tour de France, right? It really was perfectly obvious. If I could take you back to the 99 tour, which was the first Atlanta one, and you'd been traveling with me in the car. And I've been saying, Look, these are the factors that lead us to believe he's doping. And then these are the factors that will that will be used as a counter argument. And you put on one side reasons to believe this man is a cheat on the other side reasons to believe He's clean? Well, there is no contest. And you would have said, David, why is everybody not seeing this? This is perfectly obvious. And it really was. I mean, in 1998, basically, the French government, as in the police, found EPO everywhere they looked at the Tour de France. So we know everybody in 1998, virtually or most of the teams were using EPO. The only reason they would stop doing that. And 99 was moral and ethical reasons. And there was no reason why they should all get moral or ethical. Because there was no danger of being caught. There was no test for EPO, they couldn't get caught. So you had to believe that they suddenly got a sense of righteousness. Now, there was no evidence that that had happened. And we were told before the 99 tour, that the speeds would go down because people would be using less drugs 99 tour was the fastest in history, you know, so and then there was Armstrong's kind of reaction to legitimate questions about, you know, whether doping could still be a part of the sport. He was aggressive. He was in denial, he, he was arrogant he wouldn't. He wouldn't consider the possibility that some people might be doping. He would say to you, look, you're a journalist, your job is to report on how brilliant all of the top guys are in this race. That's your job. Now your job is not to be asking questions. Your job is not to be skeptical. So my argument was lands. I'm definitely not buying this bullshit. Trying to kind of them feed us

Daniel Kiernan  1:03:36

What would happen, David, have he reached out to you to apologize?

David Walsh  1:03:44

Well, he certainly he certainly won't be reaching out to apologize, but and I think he feels that I wronged him by focusing so much attention on him. I think that's his basic thing. And he would have seen the reaction to his for because in a way, I mean, it's a crude description of where we were. But when he was winning the Tour de France's it's like he and I were on a seesaw. Yes. And he was up here. And I was down right stuck on the bottom. And I was kind of the bad guy. And then it began to turn and kind of see. So I started to get a little bit more level. I start to come up a little bit here. People started wondering about him. And then he had his fall. And a consequence of he falling down, was the other side of the seesaw goes up. Yeah, so he then is looking at and hearing people giving me credit for what I've done. And that would have been incredibly hard for him. Because he's a very competitive person.

Daniel Kiernan  1:04:49

You can't handle the truth. That's what always jumps to my mind when I listen I feel feel so fired up when I listen to that again and like Like the stories he told again, you have to go back and listen to that, guys, if you if you haven't listened to David Walsh episode 96 Off the top of my head, if I'm wrong, please look in the podcast notes. To hear that a man is basically dedicated his life to getting the truth. And he starts with an amazing story he tells back in his home little village in Ireland, and then moves that same values and morals and standards that he has moves all the way to let's be honest, Lance Armstrong was probably the biggest athlete in the world at that time. You know, with all of the leaves. He was massive LIVESTRONG coming back from cancer, you know, the multi multimillion dollar deals with Nike. And he's just he's gone at him. He's gone after him. He's made sure that he's got the truth out there. And I absolutely tip my hat to David. And I know my dad is a massive fan. He then sent a nice little message to me to send to my dad. But that has to be the comment of the year because that he was looking at me saying, well, actually, we need to get the truth here done. And I was thinking, Oh, no, what have I said? Who's gonna tell you off? Yeah, that's what it felt like, and no one ever said. And no, he didn't call me a little trollee called me a little troll. And you're just just brilliant. Just loved every moment of that conversation as with the rest, but what what a great comment. So moving on. So come on the times come Vicki, you've bounced around. This is my favorite. And that actually, that was my favorite. Your favorite episode of 2021. Control the controllables. Who was it?

Victoria Kiernan  1:06:47

As of this minute? It is Captain Gully. Definitely had everything in there for me stories. I let you know, it's my Aris Handpresso. I just I loved all of hearing about that John McEnroe. I laughed a lot. I cried. It was it just had everything for me. And I found that the most powerful episode of the year to date.

Daniel Kiernan  1:07:13

Is it your number one of all time because last year, it was Valorie Kondos field that you said was your number one. So as Captain Kelly taken over?

Victoria Kiernan  1:07:26

I think you're unnecessarily complicating things now. I don't know I for today. Yes. I think he's my number one, followed by a very close second Valorie Kondos field, but if I listened to Valerie again, I may say her because she was amazing. But what about you? Which one? Have you managed to narrow it down to one?

Daniel Kiernan  1:07:46

Would it be sad if I agreed with you? Really, it's I think it would be sad and I think I think I'm not allowed to vote for Captain Gully for that reason, but he he would be right there for me. Like I said, even just reliving that moment there for that moment alone. You know, like I say the storytelling that the way that the way that the whole conversation went the way he made me feel as someone is part of that conversation was really special. But I have to give I think mine to Mark Petchey and Petch if you're again if you're listening, very self deprecating in the way that he spoke about himself, which I think isn't isn't writing you know, pet you you're doing incredible things as a as a commentator, and also you were top 100 tennis player in the world. But I think there was just so many layers to the way that Mark pesci spoke you know, he's coming from the side of being a top and replayer himself. He's coming from the side of being head of men's tennis at the at the LTA is coming from the side of coaching Andy Murray. He's coming from the side of being a tennis parent, two of his daughters are at division one college right now. And then coming from the side of being one of the most famous commentators, tennis commentators in the world, and in any was just able for me to connect the dots. And and the layers of the sports are incredibly well, the consequences of one action and how that moves amongst the tennis industry. I think he has a fantastic tennis intelligence, and I'm sure intelligence as well. And I not that I was shocked because I was looking forward to that conversation a lot. But I definitely left that conversation feeling like wow, I've just really been a part of quite a special conversation and learned an incredible amount. And again, that is the probably the one that got the most traction on social media as well. People talked about that one a lot. If you didn't live into a I promise you go back, read, listen to it or listen and listen to it for the first time, you'll come away feeling as if you are much more knowledgeable about the sport than you were before that started. So, Mark Pesci?

Victoria Kiernan  1:10:15

Well, it is actually in the top five of the most listened to episodes of the year. Also. We have the list. Do you want to know who is made the top five?

Daniel Kiernan  1:10:26

I would love to.

Victoria Kiernan  1:10:28

So at five, Matt little, no surprise there. In fact, I'm surprised he's not higher number for Alice to filmer, which again, not surprising, after Emma's success in September, and just with four downloads more so really close between number three and number four is Dr. Jim lair, who actually we haven't really mentioned much, but his episode was excellent.

Daniel Kiernan  1:10:54

I haven't mentioned that one. Because I think I was so embarrassed about how my voice was during that episode.

Victoria Kiernan  1:11:00

Oh my gosh, of course, it was awful.

Daniel Kiernan  1:11:03

I remember spending Irek and we came back from holiday. I came back a night early from holiday, because he given me this time slot. And yeah, this is some of the backgrounds you don't see on these podcasts. It actually I remember the day to give me June the fourth. And he had a car. He had a time that he does, obviously does his podcasts. That was 11 o'clock in America. So that was it worked out about seven o'clock here. And I was on June the fourth. I'm sure there's something on I've just arranged 10 people to come and do the British tennis special cross court special. So I couldn't cancel all 10. So I said sorry, Doc, I can't do that time. So he said, June the 11th 11 o'clock. American Central Time, America. So I was like, oh my god was we're on holiday. I can't cancel twice. He can't cancel. Dr. Jim Lehrer this amazing, world famous world renowned sports psychologist. So I drove back from holiday and night early. And those 12 hours of that day, I was drinking saltwater. I was taking as many fraud pastels as I could to try and unblock my voice I was trying not to talk and none of it worked. And it well. I got some noise out which which, which earlier on the day there wasn't any noise at all. So I feel a little bit embarrassed about that. But however, Dr. Jim Lehrer was was incredible was amazing, has again stories, has learnings has so many of those things. So it does not surprise me given his name and given his stature within the sport that he comes in at number three. So come on and talk to they

Victoria Kiernan  1:12:43

people obviously have persevered because he speaks so well. They persevered with your awful awful quirkiness. In that episode. I remember being like No. Anyway, top two. Number two, Mark Pesci.

Daniel Kiernan  1:12:56

There you go. I thought he would be Hi. Yeah, I've said all I need to say about about patch buddy, an incredible episode.

Victoria Kiernan  1:13:04

And number one, we should have drum roll sound effects. Anyone got any? We'll get those for next year. Again, we have not talked about this one, which is crazy, really. But out now. Number one, he has actually picked it Dan Evans to the number one spot all times, so not just this year. And that is Louis Kaya.

Daniel Kiernan  1:13:28

Again, I'm not surprised. You know, I think it goes back to if you look at that. They're all quite educational. You know, and I think, you know, when we when we look at these podcasts, but I think education energising and entertainment do go very closely in hand. But Louie Louie speaks you learned, you know, and I would as a resource for somebody to sit there and learn about tennis for free. You know, to go and listen to Louie Cayer, I speak for an hour, hour and a half. It came it came off the back of the Australian Open where the Brits had had some big success and to get Louise insight into that insights and he was giving us match statistics from the men's doubles final. And as well as all the other amazing knowledge that Louis has. So it certainly is a very talkable episode. Sorry, Louis if we didn't mention it today, but you're top of 2021 downloads but also the most downloaded podcast ever for control the controllables. And how long is that going to last as we go into 2022? Are we going to have some bigger names? Are we going to have more listeners? Who knows? We don't quite know what's going to happen. But what we do know is I think our energy, our enthusiasm for this remains and Are you up for going again in 2022 Vicki

Victoria Kiernan  1:14:59

Well I do think action one is for a dog sitter as well as a babysitter when we do these long episodes together. Apologies for our dog who has been barking like mad the entire time with what we've got it sources sending the children with my parents, but we forgot about the dog.

Daniel Kiernan  1:15:17

He's just showing his appreciation for all of the amazing podcasts. But also you guys, the listeners who who make this, you know, this is what it's what it's all about for us. The comments, the likes, the ratings, the the questions, the emails, the connections, and there's many connections that we've made in our performance director Carl Mize, after speaking to him on the podcast that opened up conversations has now led him to move his family to sort of grandeur and to sort or tennis with Matt little. One of the coaches that he was mentoring has spent a couple of weeks out here at the at the academy and many of you have been out to see us as well. Please do come and see us in person. We love seeing you all. But if you're unable to then send us a message drop us an email. You can get me at Dan at Sato tennis.com. Or the more complicated one is CTC dot podcast at Sato tennis.com. Or you can get us on any of the social media platforms under assault or tennis or CTC podcast on Instagram. We love hearing from you. And we wish you all a very happy and healthy 2022.

Victoria Kiernan  1:16:36

And my final question to you of 2021 is are you going to continue with your control the controllables catchphrase.

Daniel Kiernan  1:16:44

And at this point, I get worried because you have the control over the edit here. So which which catchphrase is this.

Victoria Kiernan  1:16:54

I'll play I'll play it.

Daniel Kiernan  1:16:55

So Paul on a corner big welcome to control the controllables How you doing? How you doing? How you doing? How you doing? How you doing? How you doing? How you doing? How you doing? How you doing? Very good. I sound I sound like a cheap man's joy from friends, you know probably have much less of an impact on the females than Joy dozen friends as well. Very good.

Victoria Kiernan  1:17:22

But in all seriousness, as Dan said, thank you again for listening and wishing you all a safe and healthy 2022 First and foremost, and a happy and successful one too.

Daniel Kiernan  1:17:35

And in the words of Nick voluntary, so

Nick Bolletieri  1:17:38

I say can I'd say baby? Ciao ciao