Jack Draper - GB´s Rising Star on the ATP Tour

DISCLAIMER: Please note we use a transcription service, so there may be some errors in the following transcription of this episode. If you can, please refer to the audio for exact quotations.

Daniel Kiernan  00:09

Welcome to Episode 166, of control the controllables. And we're right in the heart of the most exciting period of the air for myself anyway, as the grass court season is well underway, and a big Good luck to all of those that are competing during this time of the year, but particular to all of our CTC guests over the last couple of years of you're a player, whether you're a coach, whether you're a journalist who's reporting on it, a physio, a fitness coach, a heating partner, enjoy this time of the year. We will be watching on TV, as we have done for the last couple of weeks. And our guest today has already got off to a flying start during the last couple of weeks at Queen's and Eastborne. And he's also the latest addition into the world's top 100 ATP. Is this narrative that if you're not inside the top 100 is the double tennis isn't that good? Was the point is that everyone's an amazing player. Whether you're ranked one in the world, or 600 It's just the small things that make you the top of the game. Only yesterday, did Jack Draper have another top 50 ATP win against Jensen Brooksby. in Eastbourne after beaten Taylor Fritz last week at Queen's. He started the year 265 in the world is won for ATP challenger titles this year at age 20. A top 100 ATP player, someone for British tennis fans. We've seen him coming for a while. Age 16 He made the final of junior Wimbledon, winning an unbelievable 19-17 in the third set semi final. He is the son of Roger Draper, who many will know as the former CEO of the LTA he is a lovely lovely lad. And, and that is something that's come through loud and clear from my transactions with him on this on this podcast in setting it up. In speaking to him afterwards. He brings a great insight. He speaks unbelievably positive positively about British tennis. And this is a one that you don't want to miss. So sit back and enjoy Jack Draper. So Jack Draper a big welcome to Control the Controllables how're you doing?

Jack Draper  02:52

Very well. Thank you, Dan, thank you for having me on.

Daniel Kiernan  02:54

No, it's, it's a real pleasure to have you on and I know it's somewhat short lived. Because next Monday, I believe you move to 101 in the world, but you'll be you'll be back in it. But this Monday, you became a top 100 ATP player. How did that feel?

Jack Draper  03:14

Yeah, amazing. Something that I wasn't expecting to achieve in a short amount of time. I think I started the year about 270. So it's come around pretty quick. But there's been a lot of work that has gone into that. And yeah, I'm just just proud of myself for getting to that point.

Daniel Kiernan  03:31

And that feeling, I guess it's a it's a feeling that not many have in the sport. You know, it's, for whatever reason, we've put this holy grail of of top 100. And I guess, on Monday, you were playing Queens, you know you're playing a tournament, how much time? Do you have to reflect on that? Or is it just like, okay, that's happened, but we continue.

Jack Draper  03:59

Yeah, I think I try and reflect as much as possible. I think it's easy in tennis, or in life in sport, whatever to get too caught up in in the present, you know, especially in tennis, you can have bad days, bad practices, bad matches, that sometimes you don't look at it from a lens of what you've been doing for months, years. That sort of thing. So, I definitely when I when I achieved it, and I knew I knew it was gonna happen. I definitely reflected and thought I'm very proud of mine. my achievements, my hard work and, and thank you sure all the people around me who have sort of helped me get to that point. But then again, there is that point where it's like, now I want to keep going, you know, sir.

Daniel Kiernan  04:38

Absolutely. And we'll, we'll loop back round to that Jack. Because that's, you know, for me, and I particularly want to pick up on the point of what yeah, you've had and kind of quietly done it. You know, I know winning four challengers isn't quiet but in the tennis world. It was almost like our Jacks one another match up. I think I follow you on results, Tina. And it's like, it just kept on popping up Jack tripper. Jack Tria was one. But we'll come back to that. You mentioned all the hard work. All the people that have been involved in this is not just over 12 months, 24 months, this is, this is over a 15 year period, you know, even longer. So you've come from a tennis family. It gets it was kind of obvious that you and your brother Ben, we're going to play tennis of some sort. But how did it all start for you? And and how early? Did you get that bag of tennis?

Jack Draper  05:40

Yeah, I mean, one of my first tennis memories is when my mom used to be a coach, a certain tennis and squash club, and I was too young to be at home on my own. So she used to take me and I used to just hit on the practice wall. And that's how it started for me really. My parents never really pushed me into tennis, I was always, I always enjoyed playing many sports, football, cricket, I was always good at tennis or good hand eye coordination. But I suppose it got a little bit more serious when I had my first coach, age seven or eighth. And then it sort of went from there. But I wouldn't say I was fooling with the tennis until I was around 14, 15. To be honest.

Daniel Kiernan  06:21

There's a an interesting thing that jumps in my head. But I'm double your age. So you might not think in the same way. But as you're saying that I'm thinking of all the the kids of tennis coaches, that in our tennis clubs, but they're on iPhones, or they're on iPads, you know, and including my children, you know, they'll come down the tennis club, but my youngest one, she's entertained through something else. Whereas it goes back in that day. You didn't necessarily have that. So it was what I ever sit in and watch. I get involved myself. I don't know if that's kind of something that would hit your young

Jack Draper  07:07

Yeah, I mean, I think that's the problem. I think in tennis now, as well as that, unless you're have a tennis background, have a tennis family or you have some sort of connection with it. It's tough to get playing, it's tough to get motivated to play. And I think nowadays kids have everything they want. They have iPhones, I think gaming is massive these days. Obviously, football has got a massive presence here in the UK. So it's like the numbers getting people involved in tennis is tough. And so I guess I was lucky at younger age to have people around me who knew about sport and sort of introduced it to me.

Daniel Kiernan  07:45

But it is I mean, I mentioned to you at the start, this is episode 167, 168. And we've had you know, from world number ones, to coaches of multiple world number ones to Grand Slam champions. We've had all sorts of people on the show. And almost every one of them has come from a tennis background, parent, almost everyone, it's like it to the point where I consider not asking the question. Yes. Because the answer is like, Well, I was younger, I was down the tennis club. Or I lived next to a tennis club as the other one. So yeah, so you Jack Draper and I know this is a big question for someone 21 years old, but Jack Draper, top 10 player in the world and a few years, done extremely well in tennis. You know, I've got a real voice that people are listening to. How do we change that?

Jack Draper  08:43

I think one of the big things that when I've gone abroad and seen what I've been playing tournaments is sometimes other countries say Italy, Spain, there's a completely different culture and tennis in the UK. Tennis is big for maybe three weeks a year, Queen's Eastborne Wimbledon, and then it will dive down again. And I think that sort of love of the game, this country can be definitely developed over time through developing having more courts around around UK. I definitely think it's tougher being a country where there isn't great weather, but even small things. You know, when I was younger, they used to have a lot of kids days around tournaments. When I go abroad, and I play challenges even there's always a kid's day, there's always loads of kids around the venue, you know, trying to you know, you're inspired by players, I think at a younger age. So I think if we can get more kids involved in events leading up to tournaments, more kids ball going, I think all those things definitely add to a more likelihood of a lot more kids wanting to be tennis players and growing up that way.

Daniel Kiernan  09:50

Very good. i You don't have to be top 10 in the world to give a good answer. You're already you're already thinking in those terms. And I think we you When you were younger, were you a member of a club? Because I think that's another one you touched on Spain, which obviously I see living over here for 12 years. We had Facu, who's Cameron Norrie's coach on the show. He talked about that culture in Argentina, Italy, in Germany, I'm sure you've played German league tennis at some point. But the story of you going down with your mum who's a tennis coach, and jumping on the wall and playing when people are members of clubs, and it's in the culture to spend the weekend at the tennis club. Like I remember, I remember playing cricket more than I play tennis at the tennis club. However, it was still tennis racquet ball, it was on the court hand eye coordination. It was being around tennis, much easier than to get pulled into maybe played doubles with some of the older players. Is that an experience you had when you were younger? Or is it was yours a little bit more through your family? I think I'd say mine was a bit more free my family.

Jack Draper  11:09

Obviously, my my parents used to maybe take me to county week every now and again. I've got photos on my phone when I was there, you know getting with the older guys when I was four or five, six. I suppose my first coach Justin sharing, he worked at WTA, which is St. George's college. And he'd he'd run a sort of Academy there. And I'd say from age nine to 11. I used to go in squads and be involved my brother was there. And there was a lot of older players. So I was always looking up to people. I was always around older people. And I always sort of wanted to prove that I was an okay player as well. And I think that's how I was introduced to it. I was always around a lot older people who were very intrigued by the game also. So I suppose my love for tennis grew from there. And you mentioned earlier that you didn't start taking it that seriously till 1415.

Daniel Kiernan  12:06

But I've known of Jack Draper since you were 11, 12. Now I know your dad was the CEO of the LTA at that time, so maybe that's a little bit of part of it. But your results also back that up in its in its own right. You know, so you I don't want the listeners to think that, you know, Ryan paddock, Ryan Peniston, who's current in the in the quarterfinals, that Queens club, he genuinely wasn't doing that well at 14, 15. But you at age 11 or 12 are already very good player how, how much international exposure did you get those young ages?

Jack Draper  12:47

I suppose I went on a few trips when I was younger. It was weird and what my sort of tennis journey I wasn't sort of involved in, in a training complex where I trained all the time, I had lessons with my coach, maybe twice a week, I was playing competitively a lot. I didn't do a lot of training. I always was competing on the weekend or something like that. So I'd go to school, I'd maybe have a lesson here or there. But then I'd I'd be competing tennis on the Saturday most days. And then on the Sunday I'd be playing Sunday League football. So that's what I'm saying. It wasn't I wasn't all in with the tennis, I had other things that I was doing. And that's where 14,15 started to realize while I'm getting loads of injuries from playing football, I'm hurting my ankle that I'm out for tennis for weeks. So I suppose from there I was I was more, right. I'm all in with the tennis but before that, compared to a lot of people Yeah, maybe it was more serious. But I'd say it was more like I was competing a lot. I wasn't taking it really seriously in terms of right. I'm doing Monday to Friday training, you know?

Daniel Kiernan  13:53

And was that something those around you advised? Or was that led by what you felt?

Jack Draper  14:03

It was yeah, it was probably led by my parents. And my coach, my coach was really into dressing change and incredibly competitive guy. So I think it was more than mindset that if I go and compete, then I'm gonna learn how to win and lose and learn the skills and get thrown in against older players as well. Where I'd get more experience and learn how to how to play matches as opposed to doing loads of training. And how big of an influence was just on you and your tennis? Yeah, like massive use my coach from 16 till six until 15. Justin, it's weird. My tennis journey I'd suppose has been in stages, but definitely at that stage. He developed my love for the game massively developed. A definitely a competitor in me. I remember when I used to go and see him maybe on Wednesday. They're off to school. And I think I'm going to play a, a two hour session with him. But I get there and he's got the sponge ball tennis nets up and the set, right, we're going to play best the five sponge ball. You know, and little stuff like that. It's like, well, maybe I'm not hitting tennis balls, but I'm learning the skills. I'm using my hands. And at the end of the day, I'm being incredibly competitive. Because he, you know, he's on that sort of wavelength with me. He's, he's a student at the game. He loves tennis. And so we definitely had a massive bond through that.

Daniel Kiernan  15:32

And what about the influence of your family?

Jack Draper  15:36

Yeah, I suppose. Obviously, my mom's the tennis side of things comes from my mom's mom's brother. So my mom was a great tennis player when she was younger and was was always involved in the tennis side of the game. My dad obviously had a role at the the LTA. So I was around, I was around tennis a lot. And I would say one of the most fortunate things for me was that my mom, my dad, and my brother can can play tennis. So whenever I wanted to go and maybe have a little hit or something, I could just ask one of them and, and we'd go and play I think, I think I was I was really thankful. Looking back at that, for that.

Daniel Kiernan  16:16

Can't be easy for an older brother, who's a who's a good tennis player to get his ass whooped by his younger brother. When was the first time you beat him? How old were you? And how did he handle it?

Jack Draper  16:32

Yeah, I mean, it's a funny one, really, because I used to we used to play lots of games, you know, not just tennis. We just play ping pong, all that sort of stuff. And that's another thing was develop that competitiveness in me. I think having an older brother helps that. I've actually only played him once. And it was in my first ITF Junior then. And we're playing each other in second round. And not by who? No, it was actually in Queenswood. And I was thinking it was on the outdoor play. I was, I think I was about 15 at the time, he was 18. And he beat Ryan gas input rendezvous, I think, use the code. And the next day we were, we were coming in, I was thinking I'm gonna play on the slow green clay, we ended up going to Gosling indoors. And all of a sudden you're carrying over me korone down big says and he actually beat me that day for and research. He's always gonna have that over me the fact that we've played once and he'd beat me once.

Daniel Kiernan  17:32

And I remember watching you guys play doubles somewhere. And you were young, you were really young. You know, but it always struck me that you had a really strong relationship. It looked like it was it was a healthy sibling relationship.

Jack Draper  17:50

Yeah, we always we always got on extremely well, me and my brother, we've always had a very close relationship, I think. I'm not sure if that's too common or wherever but I definitely think we've grown up with really good values. You know, we like the same things we we both have a bond through tennis. And and yeah, he's actually just got back from university. So it's good to see him again. But yeah, we've we've always been really close to each other for sure. And then the other thing that you won't know this, but I said it's a game to lots of players.

Daniel Kiernan  18:23

Tennis coaches know all the young, younger players. Like I remember watching you and I'm talking to savich play maybe quarterfinals in the Team Tennis not against each other. But you know you kind of follow the careers and and I always when I first saw you because we hear people talking about you and I would go and watch I need to go watch Jack. The one thing that stood out for me, which stands out for me in most players that ended up being top 100 play in the world was was the belief that you seem to have you know, from the outside you didn't look fazed you look like an even when I've played I've coached against you, you know with Evan hight playing you and seeing you then play Junior Wimbledon. Seeing you play Novak Djokovic, at Wimbledon, it seems to have been something that you and a lot of the great tennis players we've seen over the years have internally. Is that something you feel you've always had? And I guess the second part of that question, Jack is, what age did you believe in your heart of hearts? I'm gonna have a tennis career.

Jack Draper  19:41

I would say competing a lot of young age definitely helped the belief that whenever I stepped on a match court, that I was able to potentially win the match. I think I was always playing against older players as well, which you're sort of thrown into that and you have to have the mindset. Well, I'm gonna go toe to toe with you and I'm gonna do that without fear. I suppose in terms of the belief of when I, when I really thought I could be a player was, I definitely thought I could be a great tennis player when I was 16. I made the final Junior Wimbledon. Obviously, I was always a good Junior. But that doesn't mean you're going to be a good senior player as well. So I always thought that I had the ability to be a good tennis player. But I think when you when you become pro, your sudden realize the complexity and the toughness of the sport. And I think it's, it's taken me a while to realize that and and learn that these are the things I need to do to be a top player. And so I only say, I truly believe that I could get to the top of the game, when I was probably around 18, which sounds mad, but it's just the way my journey has gone really.

Daniel Kiernan  20:49

I'm wondering which way to take this two things I want to ask you, if I asked you the one of them, it might take me away from the other one. So the first one that I want to ask you is does belief add pressure? Because guess what comes with belief is a higher expectation. And what comes with a higher expectation comes pressure.

Jack Draper  21:15

I think when I when I think about pressure, sometimes I think that I'm very fortunate to be in a position I'm in playing tennis, doing something I love going abroad, meeting all kinds of people who have helped massively on my journey, and a very, very close friend. I sometimes think that, yeah, pressure is definitely a word that a lot of tennis players struggle with. I suppose that belief side of things, I guess I've always just believed that I could be a very good player one day, and I've never tried to think about any pressures or whatever that goes with that I've just tried to think, right? I just need to stay on this path. If I'm doing good things day in day out, then hopefully I can be a good player one day. And I think if you do things with more freedom, I think you end up with better results.

Daniel Kiernan  22:11

And on that mindset, is that, is that something that you've worked on externally, with sports psychologists and, and gone that route? Or is that something that you have naturally got from your environment over the years?

Jack Draper  22:27

I think yeah, it's definitely not, I've had to learn experiences, you know, I've been lucky to have, I'd say three predominant coaches so far, Justin, Sharon, Ryan Jones, and James Trotman, who have all given me very good values as a player, and they're constantly trying to improve me as a person as well. And I think that comes from them mainly as well. Giving me that message on a daily basis that, you know, this is your journey, you're gonna have highs and lows, you're gonna have all these kind of emotions, which is totally normal. But you just got to keep on doing what you're doing. And if you're putting in the right work, you will get to where you want to get.

Daniel Kiernan  23:10

Very good. And that the second bit I was gonna ask you, you said, the complexity and toughness, I think were the words you used. So that kind of that, that move from being a junior, staying in the Hyatt Hotel in New York City, playing US Open, you know, spending time in the changing rooms with these top players. And all of a sudden, you're on the back court in Slovenia, you know, staying in some Airbnb, you know, what are the real kind of tough toughness and complexities that you talk about that often shock people as they make that transition?

Jack Draper  23:54

I think you're doing is you're you're going to nice events. Your boys and girls come every week. So you're around friends, people you've grown up playing tennis with, everything's looked after for you. And then all of a sudden, you go out of the juniors and you're thrown in the futures. And you have to go to some places which have really tough conditions, environments, you're usually on your own. And it's it's just a really tough reality you have to face especially being a young person. I think, maybe in this country, we don't we don't do a good enough job of almost letting you know about that. How tough that is, I think I was extremely lucky that when I was 15. I started getting coached by Ryan Jones, who had was the ex coach of correction, and Edmond. So he sort of seen how tough it was in the pro circuit. And he definitely tried to install, how tough it would be in my own head so that I would be ready to make the transition when it came. But it doesn't make it any easier. And I think I think the level of tennis is so high now as well, maybe in the juniors, you get some matches, which are easier than others. Whereas when you're when you're going in playing the futures and the challenges, the level of tennis is better, the conditions are tougher. And just what you have to go through on a daily basis in order to win and play good matches is a lot harder as well.

Daniel Kiernan  25:21

I mean, it's an interesting one, I guess. We've been in tennis. For a long time, I've been in a lot longer than yourself, given my age. But we've always known that these lower ranked players that are seen as Nobodies, from the commentators on BBC, when we're more than comes around, but I must admit, I had a little smile. When when the Dutch guy, Tim, Tim Van riding, one that won the ATP event a couple of weeks ago, beaten Medvedev, who was about to be the world's number one, you know, the world number 225 people in the world number one to win an ATP title, I think says everything that people need to know about about the depth of, of the sport.

Jack Draper  26:08

Yeah, I think 100% You know, someone messaged me about that the other day, or Tim won the 250. And I said, because I played him at the start of the year of I've been around him on the Challenger tour. And it's no surprise to me that someone like that could go and win a 250 event, because I think everyone's on their own journey to get to the top. And it maybe will take them a bit more time physically and mentally. But it doesn't mean that tennis isn't already at an extremely high level. And I think that, you know, some players just take a bit longer to get to the top, it's like, for instance, Karatsev. Everyone was saying that a couple years ago that he, you know, all of a sudden come out of the blue and nobody all the rest of it. But he'd been having great results for years, you probably just hadn't put it together yet. And I think that's the thing with a lot of players, it means that they're just taking their time to get to that path, they might have had an injury for two years, they might have, you know, something going on with their family, I don't know. But there's definitely so many top top players. And it always, it always makes me laugh a little bit. For instance, when Tissa pass, I think played a five set match or four set match against a guy named cola at the French Open. And I know Cola, he's been on the Challenger tour for ages battling away. And, you know, he gets beat in a lot of weeks, because other players are very good, too. But, you know, there's this narrative that if you're not inside the top 100 is the tendency isn't that good was the point is that everyone's an amazing player, whether you're ranked one in the world, or 600, it's just the small things that make you the top of the game. So as a top 100 player, you now have the right to answer this question.

Daniel Kiernan  27:51

What, what are those small things? You know, what's the I know, there's no magic dust? I know, there's no big secret. But we hear about it all the time. You know, those small things, those attention to details, you know, what, what are those little things that you're talking about?

Jack Draper  28:12

I mean, I can only speak from my personal experience. But I think that the things that have helped me rise up the rankings, more recently have been just staying injury free is a big one. The last few years, I'd say my tennis has always been pretty good. But it's just been about staying on court and developing the consistency of my practices. And my strength training, you can't do all that if you're injured. And if you're off the court. And so you might your tennis might be in a great place, you might be great. But if you roll an ankle, then you'll be out for two months, and you'll lose a lot of your progress. So it will take you maybe six months to get to where you want to be. So I think there's a lot of that that goes on, you know, a lot of good players get injured, and then they have to go back to where they started. And I think some of it is a little bit of luck. And yeah, I suppose just doing the right things on a daily basis. I think it's hard in this sport, to mentally show up every day and give your all and do all the right things that you need to do. And it is so tough because everyone's good. Everyone's after you. And you've got to be able to give it your all every day. And if you're not ready to do that, then it's tough to rise up the rankings and get the top 100

Daniel Kiernan  29:27

Yeah, because there'll be people listening to and you can get it with the Premier League football as well. Like I just don't understand why they can't get their every their absolute best every single day. And people find it hard to understand why there's inconsistency of performance. But I would challenge anybody listening. Whether you're a school teacher, whether you're a coach, whether you're an accountant, whatever you're doing, are you able to give 10 out of 10 on Monday, Tuesday when instead, Thursday, Friday, and for tennis players, it's then often Saturday as well, you know, six days a week, there's going to be discrepancies between that, that that is very, very difficult to bring those consistencies. And I think that's one thing that's been very impressive with you this year, is you want to challenge her. But then I believe the following week, you want to challenge her? And then it wasn't so long before you want another challenge. And you know, being able to have that base level that that you're doing on a every single day, because I would imagine, you didn't play your best tennis in every match over those over those over those weeks. So is that something you've really noticed? And I guess matured into in 2022?

Jack Draper  30:48

Yeah, I think as you got the rankings as you play, the challenges, or even the futures, you realize that if you don't show up to play a good match, or if you're not all there mentally, then then you're going to lose, because other players are great. So if you don't have that consistency, I don't think you got the rankings as quickly, it might take you a bit longer. So it's definitely a tough one for me, because I think I was always a bit all over the place. I didn't want to train hard, I didn't want to do all the right things. And so it was definitely a bit of a journey for me to get to the point I'm at now. But it's definitely a more maturity thing, potentially, as well as having really good influencing people around you that support you. But I suppose yeah, that's something I've really tried to focus on this year is having good days, having good practices, you know, keeping my discipline when I'm not motivated at times. And sticking to a routine, where I know what I'm doing on a weekly basis, I trained pretty smartly. So it is manageable, that I'm able to do all the work that I need to do. And and yeah, just I think the biggest thing is just the consistency of where you're at with your mind, in general, of improving.

Daniel Kiernan  32:02

And that seems to me from the outside, and we're going to talk about male British tennis males here, you know, the female, the female side is doing very well as well. But I think it's only fair that I asked you about the males. It seems like that's been a big culture change. You know, as someone who I've been around British tennis for 30 years, really. And consistency was never the thing. You know, when I was playing your Tim Henman, and Greg Rusedski, but they were completely away from the rest of us. And then anyone else from 400, to 300, to 900. not beat around the bush, the culture was trained hard, then you probably go out and get pissed. And you'd see people doing that. And then you'd see some people rocking up to the tournament and winning the futures. You weren't doing the right things. And the role modeling really wasn't very good. You know, if you went through the names, and that's not a disrespect to that era. But I think the reality is, the role modeling wasn't great. But as I look at it now, and you start going and I think Andy, almost Andy dropping back in ranking, as maybe help that as well, because he's then in that mixer, obviously, levels completely got he's got his shit together over the last three, four years, comes an absolute example of it, you know, then you start getting the likes of yourself, Ryan Pennington, you know, you're starting to get this, this flow of players that that are a reflection on the culture that has been set. And if that continues, I have no doubt that that will continue, that there'll be players there'll be knocking on the top under door for the foreseeable future. Is that something that you felt as well? Being involved and being around that?

Jack Draper  34:03

Understand, I mean, I think those three, three guys maybe including card as well, they've set a really, really good example for for the younger, the younger guys. You know, especially someone like Ken you know, he's a legend in the world. It doesn't matter what's going on with him whether he's losing matches winning matches. Whenever I've seen him he's always showing up with the same mindset to improve and grow as a player and I think that definitely has an effect on you when you're younger because you think well if he's doing all these amazing things, then how is he acting and how is he doing it? Because I want to be like that. I definitely think the LTA have done a great job of changing the culture to be more performance base and also think that the players that are going up and coming have got good people around them myself the last few years Ryan and and James Trotman, someone like penicillins got Ryan penicillin and I As the gray have gotten Mark Taylor, who's been around for a long, long time. And Paul job who's got an Argentinian guy, Guillermo rolldown, who is also a top top player when he was younger. So I think there's a lot of great influences for the players, in terms of the people around on a daily basis, but I also think there's a lot of benchmark players that we can look up to in Great Britain at the moment and say, well, if they're doing it, we can do it. And and this is the way to be if we want to get to that level.

Daniel Kiernan  35:32

Good game just from the outside. It's the team thing that I think is there that didn't used to be there. I was used to watch the Aussies. And you'd go to a challenger tournament. And if one of the Aussies was playing, they'd be like seven of them watching. And, and we all like support, don't we, we all feel better when we got people around us. And I think, again, I'm pleased you mentioned the LTA we've got absolutely tip our hat to them, because I tell you what, people don't have like slagging them off when it's not going well, you know, so, I think what's been done there and the grip people that are involved. But going back to the team bit, again, from the outside, that the pandemic has caused lots of problems in the world. You know, there's, I don't like to talk about the pandemic too positively. Because it has caused so much damage. However, I sat there watching the battle of the Brits, I watched all of these events that that seem to come on the back of the pandemic. And for the first time, I watched with real envy. And I watched sitting here in Spain thinking, Oh, God, I wish I was there. I wish I was a part of that event. And how much of it do you think? And again, fair play to those involved? How much of it do you think the pandemic and and those events is brought that camaraderie together?

Jack Draper  37:02

I definitely think that the pandemic helped it for sure having those events, I definitely think that the LTA and and the complex around the NPC now has definitely cultivated a group of players who want to train there. I think it used to be a bit old and tacky and bit lifeless. But now it's, it's definitely come into its own. And we're very lucky to have that sort of performance center there. I think from in my opinion, when I was younger, I'd sort of look at other players. And I would think all like is he winning more than I am or whatever. But I think as I've seen how tough the sport is, I have a real appreciation and respect for the other players who are trying to go through it themselves and trying to get to the game top of the game themselves as well. So I've definitely developed a lot of relationships within British tennis, and a lot of friendships through just being there for people when you know, they have a tough day or whatever. Because I know myself how tough the sport is. And I believe if we can work as a team and, and be there for one another on a daily basis in terms of having a tough day, a tough loss or whatever, then it definitely wants, it definitely drives us forward to want to improve and, and keep growing and learning. And I think I think that's one thing I've seen, when I was younger, you had Pavlov and Felix Elliott's in I wonder how it helped their their development is played to the top of the game having each other? You know, if one of them wasn't there, would it have taken that person longer. So I think it's definitely really healthy to have, you know, a competitive environment, of course, but also an environment where you're really happy that others are doing well. And I'm pushing you to be a better player as well.

Daniel Kiernan  38:42

Well, as someone who has British talents in his heart, even I live in Spain for the last 12 years. It's lovely to hear, because that's what I always wanted. That's what I always wanted to see. As a player. It's what I wanted to feel. And I do actually wonder, I wonder if because you guys have kind of pushed past the ranking barrier. It's a bit easier, because I need to wash my mouth out with soap after I say this. I've always felt Wimbledon is a problem for British tennis. And my reason for that being not because it's it's the greatest, in my opinion, the greatest event in the world, nevermind greatest tennis event, but because in my day, we set our barriers to the ranking that you needed to get to get a wildcard and there was such a low ceiling, the way that all the players thought. But then, if Jimmy or Billy who you traveled with weren't doing well, you almost thought maybe that barrier might be lowered even more So instead of being 250 in the world, there was people that were 400 in the world getting wildcards into Wimbledon. And I always felt that that was, that was the thing that drove the players. And this players are not mentioned names, there's players 100% That would want 200 300 spots of the ranking that they were capable of. Because they just got their, their nice little pouch at Wimbledon. And that's what they went to. Whereas now that you guys have all made it past that barrier, you're all a bit more financially secure. It's now it's may be much easier now to say, You know what, we're all in this together. And now, because you're more accessible, can Nerys accessible, much more accessible than Tim or Greg where they work the work, we couldn't touch those guys. They didn't practice with us, they were too far away. All of those guys are accessible. Now it feels that you guys can start pulling in pole jump, you can start pulling in Ryan Petoskey start pulling in Alice degree, which is the what I've seen in Spain for the last 12 years. They do that incredibly well. You know, the top players play such a role in the culture within the country. And there's there's very much a collectiveness to it. So long may it continue. And hearing you speak like that at age 21. Jack, really, really fills me with, with confidence that that's going to be the case.

Jack Draper  41:30

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I remember after Wimbledon last year, when I play dropped, which I said to myself, my goal is to come to Wimbledon this year with without a wildcard I want to gain on my own ranking. And because I feel like a wildcard is nice and all the rest of it, like you said, I've maybe growing up well, I've heard people say, you know, the, the British players always depend on wildcards each year. But I'd say one thing that a lot of the players now within British tennis, they want to be top players. And the ones who have got wildcards this year, for instance, I would say they're all up and coming. They're all going to be great players. For instance, I think Alex the grades, maybe 280 in the world, but he's got an amazing attitude. He's a great player. And he's, in my opinion, he's going to go up the rankings way more than where he is. In this next few months, even so, I think yeah, there's definitely been a mindset change. And, and I know for myself that I think I wouldn't want to get a wildcard you know, for instance, two or three times, I want to try and say thank you for once and for the experience, but only get here next year on my own ranking. And luckily, this year, I've been able to do that.

Daniel Kiernan  42:45

And well done that. Well. I mean, it's a great, it's a great achievement. I on a similar subject. You said you've had three coaches, main coaches over the last, which, you know, I think that has definitely contributed to your success, you know, having that level of consistency. How do you pick the right court? Chow? Because they're blatantly very influential? You know, it's a bit of a minefield out there. It's a challenge for players. Is that have you been lucky? Have you? How have you managed to pick the right coaches at the right time? And what some advice for players that are looking to do that?

Jack Draper  43:27

I think I'd say for instance, my first coach, I was a bit lucky. I think my parents maybe knew Justin or I don't know how it came about. Maybe I was involved in a squatter weighbridge, and he saw me but I was definitely lucky at each stage of my my tennis career so far, to have coaches that got it right for me when I was that age. So for instance, Justin, when I was when I was seven, eight, he developed that love and that wants me to play tennis and learn about tennis, and his energy and enthusiasm for the sport definitely had a huge effect on me. Then when I was 15, and I was sort of in around the juniors, or maybe still had a junior game, and that's where Ryan stepped in. I knew I knew I'd known Ryan side beforehand, and I really liked him. So when I when I stopped with Justin, and he became available. It worked out that he came and was working at JTC with me and George Lafargue. And, and he installed in me at 15 The work ethic which I didn't really have, I was all about my skills, you know, playing matches, I had no no knowledge of how to train properly or all the values that would make me a good player one day. So we had we did a lot of hard work over over a four year period. I'd say that's one thing I've done with all my coaches is that whatever they told me, I bought into Princeton I feel like when I started working with Ryan, he was telling me, you need to hit the ball harder, you need to be fair, fearless. You know, all of a sudden, you're a bit bigger now you need to use your weapons. I feel like a lot of players would shy away from it almost going backwards can move forward. And I was I was lucky that Ryan, what he wasn't ever about wins and losses, he was all about trying to develop me as a player and as a person. In terms of being unpopular,

Daniel Kiernan  45:28

I remember watching you play Marcus Willis, on the forecourt at Glasgow. And Ryan was sat in the stands, and I was sat next to him. And he genuinely was he was he was just feeding back. point by point, which you wouldn't have heard you, I think you might have lost seven, six in the third. Maybe you won't, but I think I lost, I lost something. And Ryan was really complimentary to the process. In our you were, you were taking it to Marcus, you're ripping your forehand, you're clearly trying to play a game style that you weren't necessarily used to. But you did it in the biggest of moments in in a futures match, which could have, I guess, if Ryan didn't have the experience of knowing what that match was relative to the career you were going to have, he might have been willing you to just because that would have been a great win, win over mark as well as edge 1617 would have been it would have been a great win. And I remember that day thinking that's impressive. You know, it's, it's really impressive, to see the absolute commitment from from your coach, but also from yourself on the court to to a game that is gonna help you win bigger later. And it is because in theory, absolutely. We can all go with that theory. You know, we can all believe it. But to actually do it, you know, Ryan deserves credit, but you deserve a lot of credit as well for taking that on board. And I think for the listeners and any players listening, because I know there's a lot of young tennis players listen to this. It's an unbelievable message to take on board, you know, in the heat of the moment where you blatantly want to win? Of course you do. But you still got the ability to go, well, actually, this is what is going to help me win later on. And I'm going to put it out there on the court. And for me, you get all of your just rewards now for that work that you've put in? And we'll continue to.

Jack Draper  47:38

Yeah, well, yeah. And he definitely gave me that message in abundance. And I suppose that's what I'd say to any young girl. You know, there's a few guys that NPC who asked me in sight who say they're playing the junior on the 16th, or on the 14th or under 18. And they're really down about their loss last week. And I remember back when I was playing, for instance, Tarbes and all those events that people say are so big and so important. I remember back to that time. And I think, well, I don't know why I was so stressed. And I was so worried because at the end of the day, I should be developing my game for the big picture, I shouldn't be worried about winning it and under 14 or 16 events, because that's not how tennis works, you need to develop your game in order to be a great pair later on. I think that's where, you know, James has been a massive influence on me as well. I came to him and my game was a bit more and we started focusing on the process of being more consistent with my training, not worried about the results, but making sure that I'm doing my fitness. My tennis is more consistent. And all these things. And I suppose that's where I've been lucky with my three coaches is that they've all been about the process and my enjoyment of sport and developing me as a person. And it's not been about the win win win win win. Because I think with that mindset, it can be really tricky sometimes to differentiate what you're doing. So I'd say that's what I'd say to any young player listening and wondering about the coach find someone that is is going to think big picture with you and, and also help you become a better person in order to deal with, with tough tasks when it comes to the tennis ball. So develop your game. Because that's that's the biggest thing.

Daniel Kiernan  49:29

I'm smiling here because that will be a big philosophy control the controllables as the podcast is called, which which is about that it's about, you know, the biggest controllable that you have is yourself, you know taking responsibility for yourself, taking responsibility for you the commitment, intentions, all of those things. Yet the number of parents over the years that have challenged me either to my face or behind my back on that being a bit fluffy It's not it's fluffy you this talk, because ultimately, it's about winning, ultimately about winning. And here we have Jack Draper, who, throughout his tennis career, as has been putting the work in, not worried about the results of your words. Yet here you sit as one of only three players, age 21 are below that are in the top 100 in the world, you know, if, if that's not validation for, for that mindset and that way of being, I don't know what is, you know, and yeah, it's a really, really strong, lovely message that I hope is at the heart of what everyone takes out of this podcast. Yeah,

Jack Draper  50:45

I'll tell you a funny story. So when I was 15, I remember this was at a time when I was I was thinking all about the results and all about, you know, how was my junior ranking looking like, and all this sort of stuff. And I remember playing doubles match with George Lafargue, and a great one in Berlin. And we rocked on core, we played two guys from Italy. One of them who was very good, the other one was very, very poor. And we serve everything to his forehand. We made sure we hit every ball at him at the net. And he was a really average tennis player. Anyway, later on in the year, I see him again is, is in the constellation of events. And he's only in court, he's hitting the crap out of the ball. He's missing by about a meter every time. And he's losing a lot of tennis matches. All of a sudden, four years later, I see him winning a challenger in Italy in Burma garter. Now, ionic center. But that was a real realization for me that this is someone who's been working on this game, trying to hit the ball, like an adult trying to do the right things, obviously had good guidance around him in piatti, and all the rest of it. And he was a complete nobody at age 15 1617. And he obviously just developed his game focused on his process. And he was a top player before, for anyone who's thinking about results, or trying to be a good junior or whatever. I don't think he played too many junior events. I think those were the only ones he played. But I just remember thinking he's a really average not very good tennis player. With a young mindset on that now I look back and I think what he's probably doing all the right things, he was trying to play like an adult and, and that's why he is where he is, you know. So it's, it's pretty strange. All these experiences you have when you're younger player of seeing players who are good now,

Daniel Kiernan  52:48

to jump on the back of that story. You saw him at 15. I saw him in Tunisia, in whatever year was, and he played Evan height for the second round, he beat Luke Johnson, seven, five and the third in the first round. And Luke Johnson was five to up. So I was watching thinking I was gonna play Luke Johnson in the second round. And I was really pleased that Luke at last, because I was like, this Italian guy, he nails a few balls, but forehand kind of flies. And I've got a job on him. Three and three. But I've been watching this kid all week, because whenever you got to the practice courts, he was always there. You know, you saw his dedication? Well, gymnasia and if you don't believe me, those listening, you can go and look at his results. The next week or two weeks after was Bergamo challenger that he won. So it was literally a week or two before where we saw him. And he was still relatively average, but he was doing the right things. He was putting his game out there. You know, and if you look at the results from that week, when he won the Challenger, he didn't look back, the he obviously grew in confidence. And he just went didn't eat and got wildcards win matches and ATP events. And yeah, just went bomb went like that. So it's really good messaging. I want to move into the last couple of things Jack. But at this point, I also have to say you speak unbelievably well, about your tennis experiences. And it's it's amazing for myself but also for the listeners that are getting this so a big big thank you before we end on, on on you coming in and doing this because I hope people have pens and papers. And they're writing these things down because this is these are golden nuggets. They really are. My one thing that I want to jump into experiences. You're a young, large, you've had some amazing experiences. I can't have you on here without asking you about the two Big Wimbledon experiences that you've had so far and I'm sure you're going to outdo them. But I remember watching not in the ground but watching on TV, the 1917 three sets, semifinal Junior Wimbledon match that just looked incredible. So talk us through that experience at that time.

Jack Draper  55:22

Yeah, I was 16 at the time. It was funny again, so I had played seven Junior Grand Slam events. Before that, when would an event remember Roehampton juniors? The week before Ryan said to me, he sat down with me this is one year before my final year to look Jack, you're going to finish your junior career at Wimbledon. Every time you play the futures you're playing in a way that's become you're going towards the right destination with your game. When you play the juniors every time you go into your shell and you tense up and and you don't show what you're capable of. And I think genius is becoming a waste of time for you now. So I went into Wimbledon, I knew it was my last one. And I knew that I really struggled to be like not tight in those sort of situations. And I remember getting my first win a junior Grand Slam, which gave me a lot of confidence. And then I was in the semis before I knew it. Yeah, I played an incredibly long match to a guy who it's funny, he, I didn't have a great relationship with this player beforehand, we'd always had arguments and all the rest of it and the first major. But after that match, we've become incredibly good friends on our journey. But I think that whole Wimbledon Junior experience definitely, like I said, gave me that belief that wow, I could be a top player. And definitely something I thought wasn't capable at all. Maybe two weeks or three weeks before I went in achieved in making the final. So it definitely gave me confidence that if I keep on trying to do the right things and work the right way, the good things could be around the corner for me. And then when I played jurkovich That was another amazing experience. But out of the blue, I've been injured for the most of the year. So it was sort of struck upon me. And it definitely helped the junior final when we're in going out in front of loads of people. So when I when I faced drop event it was that stuff was less relevant. And I could handle the situation better but definitely playing a player like that. And he basically after the first set, exposed all my weaknesses and shown wise one of the greatest of all time. And those are the type of moments and experiences which definitely I keep in my mind to this day, which helped me for instance, this week at Queen's Are you know, I'm not a normal person, I get nervous all the rest of it. And I'm walking out before my first round. There's a big crowd at Queen's this week. And I'm thinking back to the experiences I've had playing the juniors and also playing it struck a victory on a big stage like that. And those experiences are helping me to learn and sort of be okay with with the life on sort of going into at the moment.

Daniel Kiernan  58:08

And when you when that first set against chalk of itch when I was getting like text messages from friends who don't follow tennis, and you know, that's how it captured people. You know, young kid, who does this? What the hell is this guy? You know what, what were you What were you thinking? When you sat down? Change events? One set up six, five, I believe he slipping and sliding a little bit on the grass. And all that fresh first day grass at Wimbledon. What was going through your head?

Jack Draper  58:43

Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's the thing. Like in my own head, I sort of almost maybe downplay it a bit when people asked me about it, because I remember walking onto the court, it was like the court had been rained on for 20 minutes, but neither of us could stand up on it. It wasn't tennis. It was like, it was like ice skating. So it was it was quite funny. He's obviously his first match on the grass. I remember I think he had a lot of breakpoints that certain maybe slipped over about five times on five different occasions, which was quite funny and obviously good for me. But But yeah, I just remember thinking wow, look, I'm on the court against one of the best players in the world. I believe I can do some serious damage here. I'm by no means in awe of him or, or thinking I can't do well in this match. And I just tried to take it as it came. And all of a sudden I was two sets the one down five one down after that first set. So it went pretty quickly. But you know, I've obviously took a lot of experience and and learned a lot from from the match.

Daniel Kiernan  59:46

Did you think you could win when you were set up?

Jack Draper  59:50

I thought before when I want to swim in a draw. That's I think that's one quality. I would say I've always had, I think you mentioned earlier, whoever I played against Whoever I play against whether the one in the world or 500, or whatever, I always feel like I can win, I always think, well, he's got two arms, two legs, you know, he gets nervous, he has a fun, you know, he's pretty normal, you know, he's not superhuman. So So I believe I can always win the match. But I suppose after the first set, I knew that it's a Grand Slam, I have to be able to win two more. And I did get very fortunate in that first set. So it's, it's going to be hard. But yeah, I think after that, I remember it was quite funny. It's the first time I've ever played someone who changed their tactics. So quickly, due to the conditions, all of a sudden, he was playing these really low angle for hands, you know, just to get me out of position. But he had the skill to be able to in the match, think, right on the getting really off court here. So I can just nail a backhand line or something. So that was another experience. And that's what I've seen from Andy as well. You know, the top players, they really sort of learn about you when playing, you

Daniel Kiernan  1:01:00

know, it's, it's amazing. And this year, obviously, you've you've had a solid a solid first first week in that queens, and what's the are you a goal setter? Are you set goals?

Jack Draper  1:01:16

I think it's good to have goals. I know from my past experiences that I've always thought, well, I'm going to be there at the end of the year, or I'm going to be here. This is the ranking I want to get to, and I'm going to do everything to get to that point. And then I've rolled an ankle or have hurt myself doing something or, and I always am very left very disappointed. And I think that I've not achieved it if I don't get to that point. So that's where again, I say that the people around me are very supportive of this is your journey, you're going to have things that are going to stick be in your way obstacles, what have you, that's just life. And you've got to be able to move past that. And follow your process because it's like, I think I was speaking to Trump's about, someone asked me about the next gen final, because I think I'm back four or five in the race. And we were speaking about it thinking oh, like, will I get there will. And he said to me, Look, if you do the right things on a day to day basis, it's not you can't control what others are doing. You can't control how well others are going to play or how many points they're going to make. You just got to focus on yourself. You're not getting injured, that you're looking after your body and that you're doing the right things on a daily basis with your tennis, because that's going to give you the best chance of of making it.

Daniel Kiernan  1:02:37

Your answers so good. I can't ask my next question. Because my next question is, what's your what's your ranking target for 2022?

Jack Draper  1:02:48

Yeah, I would have a ranking target my ranking target at the start of the year was to break top 100.

Daniel Kiernan  1:02:54

And do you reassess that? Do you reassess that? So I remember, when I was working with my class, Paul Lloyd had a ranking target of let's say, a light work like that, of 450. And he won the futures in Tipton, or somewhere in September. And, and he walked off the court. And the first words he said, Okay, what's our next target? Yeah, because it eat eat. He knew he knew what it had done. And it was it was, it was driving him. And I think, I think when you're confident and you're doing well, sometimes it can help. It depends on how a player thinks, obviously, if you're picking up injuries, and you're struggling, they can the expectation you get too much. So when you brought up hundreds, in your mind, are you saying right now? Let's get the top 75?

Jack Draper  1:03:52

Yeah, for sure. I mean, like you said, at the very start of the podcast, though, I'm dropping out of the top 100. Again, so I've got a great top 100 Again, but I'm sure after that, I think the natural progression would be to make the top 50. And then top 20, top 10 You know, whatever I think it for I always think when you make top 100 that the goals after that, it depends on where you're at. Like, for instance, when you when you make 200, you're obviously playing bigger tournaments. I remember the start the whole run hasn't had a great start to the year, but then you turned it around, and he's nearly a top 20 player now. So I think, I think yeah, the next progression would be for me to make the top 50 after 100.

Daniel Kiernan  1:04:36

And what have you got to do in your game to be a top 50 player? What's the what have you got to improve to make that next step?

Jack Draper  1:04:46

I think I think my tendency is already there. It's already ready. I think the main thing is being physically better being able to cope with the demands of the sport. That's one thing that's been Tough with my journey is that when I was 15, I was five foot five, and then all of a sudden, I grew to about six foot three in the space of two years. So it's taken my body a lot of time to develop and, and grow into his own until quite a late developer. So I'm working really hard on my strength and my conditioning. I think it's more about my physical and where I'm going to be physically and mentally rather than, specifically my tennis. So, so we'll, we'll see how it goes. But I suppose those are the two main things for me is mentally getting myself in a good place on a day to day basis and making sure that I'm looking after my body.

Daniel Kiernan  1:05:39

Jack, you've, you've been a star, we have our quick fire round that we do. But, but a big, big, good luck well done on the career so far, you know, and it's, it's not much of a career for you, you've got a lot more to achieve. You know, you're still a young lad. But as you rightly say, we have to stop we have to celebrate the good things. You know, there's a lot of lot of losses, a lot of heartache, a lot of difficulty that comes with our sport, in tennis. And if we don't sit back at some point and just have a little reflection, raise the class, enjoy, enjoy that achievement. Then sometimes I think, what's the point? You know, what we do for you know, so all the very best for the grass court season, and all the very best for 2022. You're in great hands a good friend of mine, James Trotman. He was he was coaching us when it when he got ill actually because we I lived with trotters for four years. And he got very ill when he was 1617. And I'm telling you, at 17 years old, he was already a top class coach, he was unable to play, but he would come on call with us. He's an absolute bond coach. He's brilliant. And you're under, in great hands there. And I wish both of you the very best of luck. Okay? Are you ready for the quickfire round? What does control the controllables mean to you?

Jack Draper  1:07:07

Think it's the ability to every day be able to not no matter how you're feeling or your your mindset, if you've losing motivation, whatever to keep your discipline and keep trying to keep going on the same journey that that you started out.

Daniel Kiernan  1:07:27

rougher or Roger? rougher. Lefty club? Lefty club? ATP Oh, Davis Cup. Davis Cup. Are you a supporter of the ptpa or not?

Jack Draper  1:07:44

I'm not too sure what that is. I think I have a few messages about on my phone, but I'm not 100% sure what that is.

Daniel Kiernan  1:07:53

I'm gonna take that as a not forehand or backhand. That can serve or Return. Serve your favorite Grand Slam when modern medical timeout or not?

Jack Draper  1:08:11

Yes, but maybe shorter, shorter time, maybe a minute and a half, two minutes.

Daniel Kiernan  1:08:17

What's one rule change that you would have in tennis?

1:08:20

I think no warmups would be interesting.

Daniel Kiernan  1:08:25

So many people have said that. But I don't think a player said that. So but all the journalists, the agents, anybody that's involved at the commercial side of the game has said that. So I love that player saying that warm up on the court next to a jump on, get started. Crack on an athlete. Who should our next guest be on control the controllables. And you are responsible for getting them on. So don't be careful who you say?

Jack Draper  1:08:59

Well, I believe you've had Ryan and James. I'm not sure you've had Have you had Justin sharing on Yelp. I think I think he'd be very insightful. And a great person to have on the podcast to maybe potentially him.

Daniel Kiernan  1:09:15

Give me the hook up Jack. I'd love to get Justin on. Also the coach Joe Salisbury when he was younger as well. So someone who's he's coaching them now as well as he? Yeah. So someone who's had incredible, incredible success, and someone who would love to get on Jack, your star. Thank you. Not gonna keep you any longer. Thanks for coming on.

Jack Draper  1:09:38

Thank you, Dan. I appreciate it. Well, it's

Daniel Kiernan  1:09:41

great to have Vicki back alongside me. And I think more than ever, giving my poor voice. I need the helping hand of Vicky next to me. So a big welcome back.

Victoria Kiernan  1:09:54

It's lovely to be back. It's been a few weeks now with our trip away and we've had our 12th year It anniversary assorted tennis academy. It should have been 10. But the pandemic paid to that, but my voice seems to have survived all the talking and possibly a little bit of singing a little bit better than yours.

Daniel Kiernan  1:10:12

You weren't the referee in the football tournament. That was that that is true. This was the problem 120 testosterone fueled individuals highly competitive individuals trying to try and keep them in check. And my my voice hasn't been the same since but what a great want to come back on a no. I feel like we've had this conversation because Ross Hutchins was supposed to be this week's guest. We are we are still waiting on the ATP to Okay, that one. I don't know why, because it wasn't too controversial. However, that will come to you in the next couple of weeks. So what a replacement, no water replacement young Jack Jack dripper. And I think we talked so much on this podcast about different elements of the sport, how to make and how to train, you know, different people's stories. But ultimately, I just come away from that conversation. But also, and I think I said it at the start of the podcast as well. From our text messages, setting this one up. He sent me a lovely voice note just afterwards as well. II just came across like such a genuine humble character, age 20 speaks beyond the years already. And I'm really excited for what he's going to be bring to British tennis. I think British tennis is in great hands. And having somebody like Jack, who is going to hold that torch for the next 10 to 15 years. I don't think there's a better person that could be leading the way. And young draft Ribba.

Victoria Kiernan  1:11:55

Yeah, like you say he spoke so well. Head firmly on his shoulders. But isn't that a common thing at the minute we we've spoken to quite a few British tennis players in the last few weeks months. And they all seem to have such a growth mindset, the way they're talking about their tennis, they all seem to be very supportive of each other. They seem to all kind of know each other very well getting on very well. It seems like there's been a definite shift as you talked about, in the in the culture within British tennis.

Daniel Kiernan  1:12:24

It's monumental level. It's monumental, honestly, it's it's something that comes through loud and clear. I give credit throughout the chat with Jack. But I want to give credit again to to those that are involved right now at the LTA within the Federation for so many years now, whenever anything has gone wrong, it's been our LT this lt of that. And it seems very clear to me that there's strong leadership at the top, and it's filtering down. I love that they've got British coaches. They've got people that know British tennis, they've got people that have seen the good, the bad and the ugly, the last 2030 years, a big shout out a good friend of ours, James Trotman, who I've said for a long time, that he's one of the best coaches that there is out there. And him taking the reigns with Jack, at the start of the year, has given him that little bit of focus, I think that he needed, you know, Jack is without shadow of a doubt, a top 30 player in the world. You know, I think you'll you'll be a Top 10 Top 20 player, I really do. And to see that kind of spreading amongst all the other players. Ryan penasaran, another absolute true professional, you know, we saw him at 15 years old at at the solo Tennis Academy. And he was he was an average tennis player at best. And he's kept going, he's kept going. And now within that system within that culture, you know, he's coming through quarterfinals of the Queen's and there's more to come. You know, Jody Burridge, another guest that we had on the show she's broken top 150 in the world, in the last few days, had another fantastic win over Petra matich Yesterday respond. So there's a real feelgood factor with British tennis right now. I hope the press Get behind that during this Wimbledon, even if there is a few first round losses. You know, this is about the bigger picture. We're starting to create lots of rich people. And from that will come some millionaires, and hats off to everyone that's involved. And long may it continue. It took me a second to get your analogy then. About the rich people. Yeah, yeah, well, it's a one actually. I heard Chris suit us or Chris Souter. If you're listening to this, I stole this from you many many years ago. And her crusade and I liked it a lot that too often systems try and create one millionaire. And they try to create one champion. Whereas the British tennis as an example, or any Federation, the same with us an academy, if you provide the best environment, the best culture, to allow lots of people to grow, and become rich, there will be some that then go on to become millionaires. And I think it's exactly the same in tennis, you know, this top 100 Holy Grail I disagree with, you know, I think, set the right culture, the right environment, how many players can you get inside 300 in the world, you know, you get enough of them, then you're going to get your top 100 players, you get enough of them, you'll then get your top 20 players. And you'll start to then get your grand slam champions that come through. And I just think it's a much healthier way to look at it. And it seems to me like that is now starting to happen. We can't rest on our laurels, need to keep pushing. But there's no reason the amount of resource, the amount of grip people that are involved in British tennis, this shouldn't have been happening a long time ago. So I'm really pleased to see from the bottom of my heart, I really am, you know, pleased to see that these, these good people are making a difference. And there's lots of players coming through for the British public to enjoy.

Victoria Kiernan  1:16:28

Well, the depth is there as well, isn't it within meant the men's particularly that we hadn't seen for so many years, but you said there that you think Jack is going to be top 30? What specifically makes you think that

Daniel Kiernan  1:16:41

belief belief, you know, it's, if you listen to him, and you see him, and you follow him, he has a belief, you know, he he said it himself, I know that my level is there. If I can stay healthy, eat and he does, he's level is there, he absolutely believes that. I think he's got the right people around him. I love his mindset. And I think that's a one. I've been preaching for years. And he kept saying it, you know, he's, he's had people around him, that have told him not to worry about the results. And he still even to this day, he's in that mindset of where he, he's developing his game. You know, he's putting his game out there. He's trying to execute the way that he wants to play. He just seems very calm to me very assured, about about what he has. And and I think either real, is a real example actually,

Victoria Kiernan  1:17:41

especially with his age with him still being so young, I think he's so relatable to the the teenagers just coming through now. As well as talking about the results. He was also mentioning how many matches he played at such a young age, you know, more matches, rather than focus on training, because it was all about learning to Win Learning to lose, you know, growing those competitive skills. And we were just talking because we saw His birthday was is an end of December birthday, the worst what birthday in tennis, and we were having this conversation the other day, our boy has an end of November birthday, there's always been the topic about how much of an impact birthdays have development wise physically, mentally, emotionally, that would have been a really interesting one to speak to him about.

Daniel Kiernan  1:18:27

You know, what would have been I, our researchers, they should have picked it really, but I think even hearing his mindset now, and knowing jack for many years, the fact that he played many sports up until he was 1415 is someone that seems to have got a really nice balance. And, and I think probably didn't get too carried away. And again, you've got to give a lot of credit to his family to, to the people that were in, in his corner, just sharing, you know that I love the story of him turning up and just playing best the five sets, mini tennis, you know, came to do His tennis lesson. Now, if he didn't have parents that were in tennis, you might have a parent that goes well, what am I paying for this for? You know, what's this all about? But the fact that that was developing the competitive skills, you know, having an older brother, I think helps, you know, and an older brother, who is another pretty famous tennis player that we know from Britain, who had an older brother as well, who he competed against at all times. You know, I think that helps a lot to to bring the competitor out and people. You know, I had two older brothers, I know what it's like you're competing and everything that you do. So I think there was lots of stars aligned. And he just seems to me just to have just got a really, really nice outlook perspective. I worry that people become Have a bit obsessed with this sport at such a young age, that it causes a lot of stress within families. And I love hearing stories. Of course he was good when he was young. Of course he was committed when he was young. But at the same time, he was building all the time into indominus sustainable Korea. And I still see it with him. It's 20. He's got a lot of growing to do. But for me, I tip my hat to you, Jack Draper to all the team around you. Because I think you're a fine example on an off the court to many

Victoria Kiernan  1:20:34

and a hugely exciting player for us British tennis fans to be watching over the next few years. Absolutely. And we're in a hugely exciting time for British tennis fans at the minute with the grass courts. We had all the excitement last week with Ryan Pennington at Queen's we've got Wimbledon coming last Paul Lloyd Glasspool that was amazing, although a bit of a heartbreaker at the end, losing in the final and the championship tie break, but lots still to look forward to over the next couple of weeks. And we've got a slightly different Wimbledon preview this one this year.

Daniel Kiernan  1:21:06

Yeah, so we're combining US college British US college players that are now playing Wimbledon this year. There's a lot of them this year, there's a lot and you know the so there's going to be a few of them that are going to come on. We're going to explore that pathway of US college and and how that their journeys have gone to Wimbledon, but at the same time, we will be previewing getting their picks. Watch it for this year at SW 19.

Victoria Kiernan  1:21:38

And if you have any questions you'd like us to ask the players or you want to pass on your picks for this year's Wimbledon, you can email us at CTC dot podcast at Sato tennis.com. Or reach out to us on Instagram at CTC dot podcast. Until then, I will be getting down on the lemon and honey so hopefully he'll sound significantly better for that preview.

Daniel Kiernan  1:22:03

Big apologies that everyone's had to listen to me like this, but hopefully the amazing guest Jack Draper made up for that. But until next time, I'm Dan Kiernan and we are control the controllables