Inside the Success of Czech Tennis with Jan Stoces

DISCLAIMER: Please note we use a transcription service, so there may be some errors in the following transcription of this episode. If you can, please refer to the audio for exact quotations.

Daniel Kiernan  00:09

Welcome to Episode 199 of Control the Controllables and hot off the back of Wimbledon 2023. We had another Czech winner. Well we have more than one Czech whenever on the women's singles. We had Marketa Vondrousova, who became the Wimbledon champion. And it's got us all talking because what is the secret to the success of Czech tennis?

Jan Stoces  00:40

The check that is, I think it's so special because because there are so many coaches, which are really taking care about the technique. And they, they're, they're using slice and they're using approach and, and blank drop shots. And you know, they're using much less drills, you know, you need the kids to compete and play. It's not not just about the practice, it's, of course, more very important to have the system with the great coaches, but it's about the competition. And obviously, we have we have the Czech Czech tournament system, which is which is great.

Daniel Kiernan  01:16

And to answer that question, we've got the sports director for Czech tennis, and that Jan Stoces us and Jan comes with an incredible wealth of experience as as a player, he was number seven Jr. in the world in singles and two in doubles, and then he had a bit of a tragedy really, that he was unable to carry on his tennis career. And we're going to dive into that. And we're going to also find out the consequence of that was that then motivated him to go on and do and he's, he's been a coach to many players from Dan, I have talked to yen son Lou to Reina shuttler. To Benjamin Becker. Yeah, not Boris Becker. But Benjamin Becker, who had a career high of 35, to Ricardas Berankis. And then probably the most high profile, he was coaching Lukasz kubot as he ended the end 2017 as world number one in doubles, and then he went back and he started working with the Czech Federation, and passing on his knowledge. And over the last few years, he's been given the reins to, to hold the direction that the sport is going in. And you'll hear this word a lot throughout the chat, and it's humility. And Jan has it in abundance. And it's plain to see that the person who is leading their program that is leading their industry right now on the performance side, is living and breathing that value that flows all the way through to all of the great champions that they are producing the the amount of players that we're seeing on the tour right now, mainly on the women's side, but also on the men's. But again, we talk about all of these things and so much more. And it was a real pleasure to have Jan on the show. And I'm sure you will take a lot from this as well. I'm going to pass you over to Jan Stoces. Us. So Jan Stoces a big welcome to Control the Controllables How you doing?

Jan Stoces  03:26

Thank you very much for inviting me.

Daniel Kiernan  03:28

It's a big pleasure Jan to have you on the show. You know, I think Czech tennis has been doing amazing things for many, many, many years. You know, this is not a new phenomenon. But certainly, this was actually a little bit motivated from we had our Wimbledon Review, we had a big panel that comes on and talks about the grand slams. And when we got into it, one of the big topics was oh my goodness, the Czech players are winning. The women's singles The women's doubles, the girls doubles, the boys doubles final, you know, they're absolutely everywhere, you know, and I know it's been happening.

Jan Stoces  04:04

And we have a Czech Czech girl in the finals, juniors. It's nobody talking about anymore.

Daniel Kiernan  04:08

Yeah, exactly. It's almost failure. Which is which is incredible. So a big congratulations to yourself to to everybody. That's obviously working extremely hard behind the scenes to make those things happen. But if first I want to jump into you, Jan because you've had an interesting story, you know, you were a top junior player. Who correct me if I'm wrong, unfortunately had an injury that stopped your playing career at such a young age. And I always think it's a great reference point to understand. Where did your love affair start with tennis, you go back all of those years. The first time you picked up a racket, how did it happen? Why did it happen? And then, and then we talk through your junior career a little bit?

Jan Stoces  04:56

Yeah, well, I started because my father because of my My father was a very good tennis player and he wants to gather with young college, the gala Cup, which was very prestigious tournament back these days. And, you know, I think like my father, I have a dream that I will become a big tennis player, which was going quite well until the juniors, but unfortunately, then I happen to destroy my back. And then I couldn't continue, which was very disappointing, I think for him, and but also for me.

Daniel Kiernan  05:32

And in terms of your junior career, because again, if, if I'm correct, you were seven in the world, in singles, two in the world in doubles, ITF Juniors. June is on a on a great path that, you know, if we take the data over the last 30-40 years that that's obviously setting you up to have a good pro career. But when you look back at that, what would you put that success down to? You know, it sounds like maybe your dad was quite a driving force? Was it down to the Federation, the system? Your unbelievable talent? You know, what, what was the, the big factors in you, you being such a high level player at that age?

Jan Stoces  06:11

Yeah, well, you know, I think it's kind of kind of all together, because, you know, obviously, Czech Republic, it's very traditional tennis country. And, and I think we have always, like a great system just before, maybe a bit different, because was the communist time and there was a quite different opportunities, then then these days. And, you know, so I was in one of the centres, and my father was pushing me very hard, you know, and he basically brought me to, to this level of the juniors, but it was connected through through the, through the center where I was practicing. So, so now, I think there's a connection of everything, you know,

Daniel Kiernan  06:53

And you mentioned that period, because when we look at the 70s in Czech tennis, Jan Kodes won in 1973, you were born 1976, you know, my, my look into that period, in Czech tennis does seem to be quite a change, it was, it was quite an elitist sport. Before that. And then it almost felt like it started to become the sport of the people that started to become more accessible. And obviously, that's kind of gone through different stages of over the last 50 years. But I guess growing up in that, do you count yourself fortunate that you came in that time, or were you already tennis was going to be your thing, and then the second part of that Jan is how big of an effect has that shift had on the opportunity for more people to get into the sport,

07:40

In all, because the time was completely different. And, you know, we've been not allowed to be traveling, you know, we, you know, obviously, you have to be only international, to to be travel to foreigner country, and, you know, so so, you know, like, for everybody that time was a dream, let's say to travel and to become the big sportsman to see the world, so I think was completely different situation. And the motivation was completely different. So so, you know, I think, I think it's a bit different to, to the days after the system broke, and broke, because, you know, for me, the life was tennis, and obviously, it's still tennis. And, and then, you know, like, I was having dream, of course, to win the Grand Slam, and I was doing everything for it. And then when the time comes, you know, because I think exactly what you said, you know, I was playing, the juniors would name it, Google keratin, Tim Hanneman around the shuttler, my close friend, you know, and many others, you know, playing against Marcelo Rios or some, you know, and these guys, they, they become superstars. And then, and then I couldn't, couldn't, couldn't play and that was that was for me, mentally very, very tough. That was really, really difficult time, I have to say,

Daniel Kiernan  09:00

how long did it take for you to accept that?

Jan Stoces  09:03

Well, I honestly, I will say it was couple years. I mean, it was four or five, six years and I was really like, fighting with it mentally because because, you know, when when you see and I was waiting few few of the these guys, you know, juniors and and so you know, I thought like I could, I could really become a big player as well. And, and then I just found the gizmo was actually this injury because, you know, my dream was to, to be in the same environment. Like, my friends for engineer was, I was just an I was just, you know, that was the only goal for me. I was having goal and dream to become big coach to be basically in the same rooms as like my friends. And I think that was that was the of the success I have to say.

Daniel Kiernan  09:57

And that's, I think it's such a it's a nice message that Jan because and for me, one of the things I'd written down when I, when I, when I saw your story was I'm a massive believer that everything that happens as a consequence, and that can be positive or that can be that can be negative, but sometimes, we actually don't know what the consequence is for a long time. You know, so if we take your situation of having a career ripped away from you, because you're you're physically but unable to get out, get onto the court, the consequence of that challenge, you've been able to use in a positive way to then set up the next stage of your career, you know, and I think that says a hell of a lot about about you, you know, and, and the values that you've had installed from your family. And so what are those, those values that have enabled you to be able to do that?

Jan Stoces  10:57

I was growing up in completely different times, you know, and how I said, already before, you know, we don't have any opportunity that time. And so, you know, I think I have this kind of, like, fight to spirit inside me. So even, you know, so I, first of all, I was, obviously I was broken mentally, because, you know, I couldn't compete and, and I was playing wounded, sleek, and, you know, actually, with a couple couple of the English guys, the baby played Wimbledon and playing Leslie, but I was I was actually ready to play one match, and then rest five days, I will say, like this, because my back was not holding, you know, yeah. And then I slowly like, recognize that I have to fight in my life. And I can make different career, you know, and I make I make a goal for me, you know, and the clear goal was to become ATP coach. So you know, after the few years, I was really having a clear goal, again, because my goal was to become a tennis pro, which couldn't happen. But I found this goal. And I think this helped me so much in my life.

Daniel Kiernan  12:05

How important is goal setting, you think that player for players for anybody in life, because that's coming through that, your your ability to almost reframe the situation that you're in, and you know, you've got your goals of being a player, and then you're able to reframe that and say, Okay, now I have the goal to do this, myself as an ATP coach, and then which we'll get into later in the conversation, you've obviously then had a vision and a goal for how you can then help check tennis as a whole, you know, working for the Federation. So how important is that goal setting and setting those clear purposes been for you? And as a coach, how important do you think that is for players as well as they go along the journey?

Jan Stoces  12:54

Well, you know, I think it's extremely important. I mean, it's not not just for this, but it's very important for the life, you know, because when, when you set up some goal and and you are living for some dream, then can really happen and, and, you know, when when I was starting coaching, you know, then I don't think like, even my father will ever imagined that I will be coaching players playing semifinal qualifying grand slams, or winning doubles, Wimbledon becoming number one in the world, but you know, I was living in my dream. And you know, I think this is this is very, very important for the motivation because, like, sometimes I am missing that, but in my opinion, you know, it's already when you when you talk with the with the young kids, and of course, everyone is different, but you can already see quite not the difference that that some some of the kids they have really this dream, and I think I think is the right way is the right way, because you know, the life is about this goals and dreams and then and can and then can really happen.

Daniel Kiernan  13:04

Absolutely. And that moves me into you as a coach. Yeah. And you know, you've obviously started quite young as a coach and you know, Coach for coach from a young age and coach for many years, and then moved into the various various other sides of the game as well. What's been your big coaching philosophy, something that's really personal to you, that almost no matter who you've worked with, that's been a non negotiable that you've looked to bring through?

Jan Stoces  14:39

Well, well, I have to say that because you know, you have many kinds of different characters as coaches and and feel me as personnel. You know, I am I am completely working with everybody individually, and completely different because in my opinion, everybody's completely different. Because somebody has like a clear system and what he's doing over and over, but I am different, you know, I'm really working with everybody different depends what I feel, what kind of player, you know, is person. So that's why I will I will say, you know, for me, for me, what was one thing that I was, I was even asking the player sometimes what they want to practice or how they feel. But at the end of the day, I have to be the one who have the last words. And this I was this I was following for my career,

Daniel Kiernan  15:32

And how is how is your your philosophy and way of working, aligned into I guess, the Czech way of working the way that would be seen culturally within your country?

Jan Stoces  15:47

You know, actually, this is very, very good question, you know, because, in my opinion, you know, that every culture is completely different. And I say that, let's say, Czech Czech Republic coaches there, they're very good technically, like, like, I think, you know, like, we have very good eye and we work in a lot with a technic. You know, and but maybe then you have other other countries where you see the working much more with intensity, let's say, you know, but the Czech coaches and the Czech culture, it's, it's about it, because then then obviously, you see so many great, great players with with a great technique. And I think this is very, very specific in Czech Republic.

Daniel Kiernan  16:33

And why is that? Why? Why is it that that's able to be created, and I guess, passed down through the generations as well as that down to the education system? Is that down to the way that it's run from the top? And I know, you've got lots of regional centers that down to the club system? How is it that you can almost get this way that this is almost traditionally how a Czech coach works? Well,

Jan Stoces  17:00

you're not, you know, the tradition is really, really big. And, you know, I have to say that, let's say, in my times, you know, the coaches used to be very strict, you know, I mean, these days is maybe a little bit different, because you have to work with different kids, because, you know, the, the opportunity for parents and for people are completely different than the days before, you know, but, you know, I will say, you know, that, that the tradition and this district system of the technique was, was really cool. Doing, it's still continuing these days. And, you know, I think also that it's very important that what we said, we have, we have our, our national centers, and we have the concentration of the of the great coaches, and the many, four former players in the system, you know, and you can see that the guys can can learn from each other, which I think is most important, because my philosophy as a coach, I was, I was trying to learn everyday, something from somebody, and what was the matter who was it and I think this is also the key to become really successful coach, because, you know, doesn't matter who you talk to, or, you know, if somebody want to give advice, your ego should be not, not there. And should be just listen, and maybe you will say, okay, maybe it's bullshit, but maybe it could help and can improve your player for the one step you you need it and, and this is so important. And I and I have to say I was taking profit from from, from listening a lot from many, many others, great people around me.

Daniel Kiernan  18:42

It's really good that Jan because if I, if I think of Czech Republic tennis and I'm absolutely not close to it, you know, I've I've played myself I've coached for many years, I've come across lots of Czech coaches, lots of Czech players, I obviously watch tennis. So I've watched the Great's of the sport, and many many of them have been Czech, even in I know the likes of Hindus Krajicek the Korda family and others. There's this there's also these families that I've moved away from Czech but I've come from from that setup. I always think of the word humble. And it's it actually one of my coaches at the Academy. He was a hitting partner at Wimbledon this year. And he was from quite early on, I think it was when he when Ons Jabeur played Kvitova he's a lefty so he became the lefty hitter. And we all know that he played a lefty in the final as well you know, so and Ons hit with Mike on center court that day. And I think this is quite symbolic because they hit on Centre Court which on reflection might have been an error within Ons' as team because there was a lot of press around just it just kind of built it up to already having a whole continent on your back. Whereas Vondrousova was hitting on the same court that she's hit on every single day on the far side of around the park. And I just think that's quite symbolic to Czech tennis of like, just, we just get on with it. We're just, we're in the background, we work hard, we put it in day in day out, we turn up, you know, no, no real drama, you know, and I think that comes through loud and clear. But I'm not naive enough to think that that's the only reason that there's been success. I also, I also am not naive enough to think that there's this big secret that nobody knows. However, I am going to ask you the question, What is the secret? You know, what is? What is the secret to this amazing conveyor belt of, of players at all ages, and all levels that have just continually come through over the last many, many years?

Jan Stoces  21:09

Well, trust me, I'm getting this question for the last, last two, three years, quite often, because, you know, like, you will now I'm three and a half years in charge of this position. And we having incredible, juniors special, the girls, even last three years, they won the world championships, 14 and 16, European champion cups and everything. And this question is coming all the time.

Daniel Kiernan  21:35

So do you mean to say, Jan, we've got to put up with this for the next few years as well? Do we, the next lot are already coming?

Jan Stoces  21:41

Well, well, I hope so. But, you know, how's it again, you know, we are very traditional tennis country. And, you know, I am, I'm obviously very happy. And when when I come in the system, you know, I was even trying to brought more and more foreign players in the system, you know, which are helping, which are helping in the national centers, which are traveling with the, with the teams to the European Championship and Junior, Billie Jean King cup and Davis Cup. And, you know, us, you know, they are, they are together with other coaches, because they can share the experience together. And I think, you know, that is the most important that we are we are keeping the system that we have the the main three national centers, then we have another six centers for for the national player, you know, and system from down. And, you know, I have to also say that, I have huge respect to coaches, which are working with the kids, because, you know, once you work with the pros, you know, then then you don't see what what this great coaches which are working with a 10 years or 12 years old, you know, what, what kind of great job and with a patient with a huge patient, what they are doing, because it's obviously it's very, very, very difficult. And, you know, I have, I have to say, also with respect that we have, we have, we have great, great parents, which are really getting everything, which is also not, I will say not everywhere, but but I think especially the parents of the of the girls, they are extremely motivated, because we are, we are really one of the best woman's woman's tennis country in the world. And we are continuing it's for that how you sent is for the for the last 15 years. And we are we are producing more and more girls. And we have now, again, I have was having an interview yesterday, because we have these 2 15 years old girls, which won Junior Wimbledon doubles, which I think is amazing achievement. And then you know, if you're here in Czech Republic in media, it's not not become so big because Marketa I want the single so you know, but but but you know, like, for me, it's incredible, actually, if another 15 year old girls, which can be really, really good.

Daniel Kiernan  24:11

But I think that helps. I think that helps that it's not a big deal. You know, that's that's that humility thing again, for me that, you know, there's almost saw and I think Marketa, I believe was the ninth highest ranked Czech woman when she won Wimbledon maybe I know she's not any more. And you know, but but but the fact that that does happen, because in many countries, that would happen. They would be all over social media, they would be all over everywhere. It would be hard to keep that humble way. And it would become a little bit more entitled and a little bit more, the head starts to turn. So it seems to me that because of that, and obviously now there's so many players and there's so many role models. It's almost a little bit easier to move that forward, but I have to ask a couple more specific questions. because there'll be people within Federation's in different various countries that I often see selection processes are challenging. Funding is a headache, because it's, you know, it can create a lot of lot of difficulties. How you then combine schooling with the training? How does it work it give me a bit of an overview of how it works in Czech Republic with regards to those things?

Jan Stoces  25:28

Well, well, you know, obviously, of course, we have our criteria, how to become the National Tennis Centre member, and then at the end, national team member, and then obviously, this case, having full support in the centers, of course, is difficult, but we do but I build it for coaches committee, and it's not like that, that I am deciding everything. Maybe I have the last word if I have to. But you know, I have, I have a big committee of 14 top coaches, which I am, which I have discussing everything, you know, obviously regulary, you know, and then this is then very helpful, let's say, if you make a nomination for junior European Championships under 16, you know, that, you know, I want to have always the majority, which will say, Okay, we are sending this and these players, and it's also helping against, let's say, problems to parents, because obviously, every parents wants to have the best best child in the world, which is understandable. But you know, for me, personally, it's very important to do it really fair, you know, and that they and then if, if, let's say, somebody thinks, Yeah, but why not? My boy, my girl, let's send him now that, you know, to have the right argument, and the argument is not from one person, but it's from from a big pros, coaches team, you know,

Daniel Kiernan  26:58

and how many people's you got the three national centers? You got the six regional centers, I believe I heard, how many players do you have in each of those centers? That is that require players to leave home and at what age?

Jan Stoces  27:13

Well, you know, we have we have done we have also done 16 regional centers, which are usually for age under 12. And then then this six and three national centers, which are already 14 till till 18, and 20, under 21. And then usually, obviously, all they are practicing in the national centers, and which is, of course, very helpful. If you see, I don't know, Petra Kvitova practicing and next court, you have Alena Kovackova, Junior girl, it's a huge motivation. So, you know, it just depends, let's say the parents, they then if they leave the kids, let's say it's top five, ranked, the parents, they basically they are, they are in in touch with the, with these centers, and they can freely choose, you know, it's not that we, you know, I will say you have to go to Prague, or you have to go to press the off, you know, they can choose, and they are they're talking with the with the directors of the of the national centers, and they are talking what are the opportunity, which is there, available at this time for the kids and everything. So, I don't think it's the right way, if you are, if you're pushing somebody, or anyone, anybody to something, because it has to be your own decision. And this is sometimes I feel, is the same principle, equal coaching, when I was pushing the player sometimes, you know, then I realize that the player have to have to realize that he have to decide by himself, because I think it's everything about trust. Because if you will not trust me, how can I improve you? You know, this, I think, is very important that, that also the parents and the young kids, they will they're really, they have free to choose which center they are, they are going to

Daniel Kiernan  29:09

Very good. Yeah, I mean, I, I'm a big believer for one in trust, to in to in connection, I think, I think when the player has a strong connection with a coach, you know, beautiful things can happen, you know, and whether that's connection to values, connection to game identity, connection to the way of working the way of developing the game, or just connection, that connection as a person. And I always find challenges that I've seen over the years as being when you have a player that has that connection with a coach, maybe in their hometown, their home city, and then they get an opportunity to move up to a regional center, a national center. But then yes, that might be better for sparring for environment for x y and z. But but how do you then ensure that one the connection is able to remain and are with with a new coach or getting that right connection? And two maybe how you still include the coach that's maybe done the job from six to 12? And has been such an important part of that career to date?

Jan Stoces  30:22

I think this is this is very, very complicated question. Because obviously, it's very tough sometimes even for for coach to say, Okay, I have done everything for my kids, for my player. And now is the time maybe, to move the kid to some other center to the coach. So I think this this is, this is really something which is very special. But like, honestly, they are, of course, coaches, which are developing the kid from small kids, until top player, okay, but in the system, we have, let's say, for each each age group, we have guys, and they are working, let's say under 12, under 14, and then they are going to, let's say up to from 15 up already with the pro coaches, you know, because, you know, this is exactly what sometimes sometimes, you know, I have, especially if I can go and, and work with a small kid or something, I say, Yeah, of course, I will go, I will have a look. And I will say my, let's say what I am thinking about the kids, okay, but But you know, I know that they are they are really professional coaches, which they have really, really much more I hear about coaching, working, because it's completely different different work. So you know, I, I think it's important that the coach, really realize if he can really give the player really something, or if he's if he's raw, or his role already finished. So you know, and in the system, how set we are, we are keeping coaches more with the age group, we are not taking them with them all the way up to the up to the top.

Daniel Kiernan  32:12

Very good. And in terms of the basic principles, obviously everyone will have their own way of working, there's different ways of working with different players, but what in the centers and in the system? What are what are the basic principles that you have in place for Czech tennis.

Jan Stoces  32:29

I mean, every coach has his own group, or, let's say, numbers of players, which is taking care, you know, which I think it's almost almost everywhere. And then obviously, if somebody's already with 15-16 became really, really top guy in in the world or something, then obviously you have to start individually, which I think is the trend in the world just happened like this everywhere. I think this is same same every country.

Daniel Kiernan  32:58

And in terms of it might my understanding and check tennis, there's a bit more focus, and you've said it yourself, on on working with an individual. So if we have, if we have systems and I again, I can think of different systems in the country. I'm from one of the you know the LTA it feels a little bit like it's a player has to almost move into a centralized system, this is now how it works. And then the player has to adapt to that system. And that way that we're being, whereas the feeling I get in Czech Republic is it's a little bit more actually, the system is able to adapt to the player, and is able to make that whole program individualized with within the program. I don't know if that's just me picking that up? Or, you know, how would you what would you say about that?

Jan Stoces  33:56

I will say that, yes, that, that, you know, here the center is kind of more, let's say more flexible to adapt to the player, and eventually to see if, if it's necessary to maybe work more individually with some with some players. Yes, that's for sure.

Daniel Kiernan  34:16

And the same with game style. And I've been in Spain for 13 years, and I'm certainly not a one to be criticizing the Spanish system that's obviously worked incredibly well, especially on the men's side. However, if there was one criticism I did have of the Spanish system, it's quite cookie cutter. It's like this is how you play. You know, this is this is the way you play you move behind the baseline you play high and heavy to the back hand. You know, there's two or three set patterns. You obviously do that with incredible intensity, physicality, all of these things. Now, that, in my opinion, helps get players to be good to a good level but When it comes to actually taking somebody to a, to a to another level and turning them great, that is obviously a lot more individualized. So if I was to say to you, what is the Czech way of playing tennis? Is there one way? Or is there multiple ways depending on the physicality mentality of the player,

Jan Stoces  35:20

The Czech tennis, I think it's so special because, because there are so many coaches, which are really taking care about the technique, and they, they're, they're using slice and they're using approach and, and blank dropshots. And, you know, they're using much less drills, let's say the Spanish tennis is incredible, strong how you said, and, but in my opinion, they have completely different the way because they are using intensity, they are using many drills, but maybe, maybe it's just the mentality, you know, I can, I couldn't really say because I am, I have many friends in Spain and great players and coaches, you know, I have a huge respect to these guys. And they want them working, they work in different, you know, the question may be that I think the Spanish are a completely different mentality than the Czechs, you know, for them just to make the drills, it's not working mentally else.

Daniel Kiernan  36:20

Yeah. And that's, I think, I think that's an important point. Yeah. And that it's hard to emulate a system because there's so many variables that go into into being from a certain country, the type of people they are, the the economics associated the way that they think the way the traditions of the country. And I think, if I if I look back over the years, you know, I think if I go back to sort of my time when I was playing, you know, Belgium happened to have Justine Henin, Kim Clijsters, Xavi Dufraesne, Olivia Rocco. So then it was like, we need to do what the Belgian are doing. And then Roger Federer turned up and Stan Wawrinka. No, we need to do what the Swiss are doing. We've got to be really careful not to jump in those certain ways are the Russians have obviously had had a lot of success? You know, you take the Russian way into America or Australia, it's not going to work. It's a different, it's a different mentality. You know, do you find that the rest of the world is starting to try and say, right, what are the Czechs doing? And we want to take that and do you think it's a system that can be emulated?

Jan Stoces  37:30

Well, we I'm getting this question more and more. I am I am as well. Tennis Europe Junior committee member and I am going with the Tennis Europe President Mr. Koudelka to, to all the meet at the annual meeting everywhere and then, you know, of course, it's actually great because you've been mentioning Spain and you know, when the Spanish Tennis Federation president come to me and say, congratulations, you know, it's actually quite funny and obviously is great, you know, it's, it's a, it's very, very important for the heart to, to heard it, but exactly what you said, you know, I think it's also about some kind of waves, you know, you know, obviously, we are going on the long term wave, especially with the woman's you know, after, after Tomas Berdych and Radek, Stepanek, you know, now, we are also trying to develop the boys, we have ferula headscarves coming up he stopped every now and and I believe that Thomas March and menchi can maybe switching you know, or for a tech they can they can become top players as well. So So you know, we are we are working on on it collect very, very, very intensive you know, but exactly what you said, you know, it's every kind of each wave at the moment is really is really great. I'm very grateful and thankful today that I can I can be here, you know, and I can come to these meetings and and then the, you know, all these big parisons and Federation bosses, you know, come and ask and congratulate with this is this is really very nice.

Daniel Kiernan  39:04

And if I use go back to Spain, because I have been here, like I said, 13 years, so I get asked asked the question a lot. Why ispan been so successful. And when I think about it, and I really screwed, I really believe this in my heart. I think it all goes back to the tournament structure. And I think, I think their tournament structure is so good. There's so many opportunities to play the game of tennis to compete, and culturally, then they do compete, they compete hard, you know, so if you don't compete at a Spanish tournament, you look like the black sheep. You know, you look stupid, you know, so you've what you then have, that's the start of the ecosystem for me, because you've got so much competition you now get people that get the bug of playing the game of tennis. You now have more coaches that are in All you now have more academies, you now have more, more things that happen. And obviously you then have people that want to improve, they want to get better. They want to win tournaments, you can relatively affordably play to a very high level. Without without traveling the world. You know, you can play a number of tournaments every single month to a high level all the way through. You know, I remember Juan Carlos Ferreira was my age and he turned up to La Pete acid, Liberty Darcy and Tarbes and won the singles. And then he disappeared for four years or so I thought. And then he came back as a wildcard at Roland Garros of one Roland Garros juniors, and everyone said, Where's he been for four years? Well, where he's been is playing locally in Spain and playing the Spanish circuit, you know, and you're, you're able, you're able to do that very similar. Carlos Alcaraz. I used to see him at all of the events as well. So I don't know that system in Czech Republic. But if I was a betting man, I would guess that you have a good tournament structure as well.

Jan Stoces  41:04

Oh, well, this is this is actually the part two of the Federation system, because the part one, we've been talking about it for the last maybe half an hour. But Part Two is obviously the great tournament system. And this, this, in my opinion, is the is maybe even more important, how to become a top player, because you've been just mentioned, just just now, you know, you need the kids to compete and play. It's not not just about the practice, it's, of course, more very important to have the system with the great coaches, but it's about the competition. And obviously we have we have a Czech tournament system, which is which is great. And it's connected with the maximum number of tennis Europe tournaments under 1214 16. And then obviously, connection connected with the IETF under 18. And then futures and the IETF. For for a woman's and men's and challengers. I'm just now sitting in in liberates ATP challenger. And you know, I think this is exactly what you need. So you need in the system to have from under 10 until the men's. And then, of course, if you have so many tournaments, it saves money, it saves energy, save time, your coaches, your coaches, which are working in the clubs or centers, they are able to travel to the tournament, which is very often a big problem. Because you know, to pay coach traveling around the world, is almost impossible. Only if you are if you are a millionaire. And like this, you you have the chance that your coach is going with you and he's seeing you how you playing and he can work with you during the tournament. And this is definitely a definitely the the key point for Spain. But it's also key point for for Czech Republic,

Daniel Kiernan  43:00

that well, that fits into my theory. So that's good. You, you could have made me look stupid, they're Jan and said actually, no, we have no tournaments. But that fits very much into what I've been thinking. So then the next bit for me, and we've touched on it with that. And I asked this question a lot as well. And I get various answers. You know, you get a lot of people that say, you can't be a tennis player, if you don't have money. We have Cameron Norrie's coach Facu Lugones from Argentina who came on and said, Actually, he disagrees in Argentina. He believes money never stops anybody. You know, if someone wants it bad enough, there's, there's a way of doing it. I would imagine working in a in a federation, it's a question you get lots of questions around funding, finances, financial help, this this side of things. My direct question is, do you think that you need money in order to become a professional tennis player?

Jan Stoces  43:59

I mean, of course, Money Money is obviously important. But let's say if you can go with the, with the good system that you have, you have, let's say many tournaments, many local tournaments, then it helps a lot. It helps a lot. You know, there I think, you know, you can you can see many kinds of different strategies, let's say of some parents, or their parents, they are really traveling from young age around to Europe, or even worse, you know, which I think it's not the most necessary to do it in the really young age. But obviously afterwards from from 15, then you have to start travel. And then let's say if something like like you said in Spain, that the guys that can play Futures 10 months a year in Spain is a huge help. Definitely.

Daniel Kiernan  44:56

So how do you make tennis affordable in Czech Republic

Jan Stoces  44:59

Well, obviously, it's a very expensive sport, like, we're so one of them more expensive sports, you know, the support for that for the best are in the center's, which I think it's, it's a huge help, if you can practice for free, you have a good coach, you know, and then you know, we have, we have certain certain tournaments, which is for the national team, but it's only for the national team, you know, which are also also supported from the Federation. And then, obviously, are the big number of the tournaments, which are in Czech. And then, of course, the parents have to participate and, and pay the expensive because, you know, we are a small country as well, Federation, we cannot afford to, to pay, everything's impossible.

Daniel Kiernan  45:51

So you're so I understand your support is more through resource. So providing courts providing coaches, that's where that's where the money from the Federation goes more rather than direct to the players and parents.

Jan Stoces  46:09

And definitely, definitely we like we like the system, we like to support the coaches, the centers, the facilities, tournaments, you know, and then of course, we we have our plan of travel travel travel during the year for the specially for that for the team events like the summer summer camps, you know, and and grand grand slams the European Championships cetera, et cetera. But But aren't we are not focusing only for them for the for the traveling, because this is this is not affordable, it's impossible to pay.

Daniel Kiernan  46:41

And where does that money come into the Federation? So we take the Grand Slam nations, we know that there's big amounts of money that come from the grand slams and filter into the Federation's, but a federation like Czech Republic, and then my second part of that is the same with tournament, so often Grand Slam nations, they then run the tournaments as well. Whereas a country like Spain has to be more privately run, you know, sponsors clubs that are funding, you know, being creative with how they do it. How does the money filter into the Federation? And how do you now get the full support for the tournament? Is that done in a private way?

Jan Stoces  47:25

Well, you know, the Federation in Czech does depend on the on the government, and, you know, and then obviously, the tournaments, they are partly Federation, partly private sponsors, you know, because without the private sponsors for the tournaments, you know, it's impossible to organize so many so many Futures and Challengers. So so this is kind of connected and, you know, the Federation have to work and talk with the, with the private sponsors and not try to take care of them. So this is also a big, big job in behind. Definitely.

Daniel Kiernan  48:02

Okay, that's good to understand.

Jan Stoces  48:04

You know, if you're, if you if you can imagine that we are 10 10 million people nation, so we are like one one city, let's say somewhere so, so, you know, we are very small and, and, you know, our budget is also very small, I will not say  the number because you will smile, probably but but you know, it's that's why I think is it's very important to keep keep the system you know, and not trying to make any how sad, you know, just be trying something new, because you know why to change something which is which is work, I would say

Daniel Kiernan  48:39

Again, very humble. You know, that's the word that continues to come back to me. Humble, humble, humble. And I do now I want to move into women's tennis because again, we've talked about it but we haven't dug into it. It's it's a joke. It's unbelievable. It's ridiculous. It's like the amount of Fed cups, the Billie Jean King cups, the it feels like there's just a different female player, arriving in all stages and ages. You know, the Grand Slam finals are littered with them singles, doubles, mixed doubles, semis of doubles, women's girls, singles, girls doubles. They're appearing everywhere. And I won't even insult anybody by naming names because we'll be talking names for forever. What is it about the Czech way? Do you think that is? So I have a theory on this with Spain which maybe I'll share after if you share because I believe that the system in Spain is more conducive to men. Why do you think that the system in Czech is more conducive to to producing top women's players?

Jan Stoces  49:53

Well, you know I this question quite often as well. Because you know we are we are spoiled. Which country I will say and then obviously, the journalists or even even the public people asking me this quite often, you know, I will say that the biggest change, it starts, it starts after the communist system broke down. Because, you know, the opportunity, how I was trying to explain at the beginning, in my case, you know, the tennis was exclusive sport, and there was I think the, the many, many players dream was to travel and to see the world, you know, and, and having a better life, you know, and then, you know, let's say my generation was just about it when when it's changed. So we have, we still have quite many, many players there, you know, you're in Navarre bogged down with Iraq, Rico, who said, there's no no time to mention, we cannot not mention everyone. And then everything has changed. You know, we are a capitalist country, like, like every country in Europe. And I think, I think the parents, they can realize that, I think the chance for the boys, it's much bigger to, to have a good living with ice hockey or football, soccer, you know, because you can you can play even in the first division in Czech, for good knee, you know, or the, the highest Czech, I zakelijke. It's well paid. And, you know, and you don't have to be the best in the world. Because, I mean, obviously, everybody's talking about to become top 100 in the world at UWA, to make a good living. And I think this factor is quite high, because the Czech then is, is losing kids from going to ice hockey and football. You know, I don't think it's excused. You know, we have made research and, you know, the thing the thing is Tench. I mean, we are we are Western country, the people are thinking different. And I think, you know, the parents of the of the girls, they, they see the great opportunity they see so many big champions here, you know, and give them big motivation, you know, because, you know, you don't have a well paid soccer team, for a woman's or ice hockey team or whatever, you know. So you know, I think it's about opportunity. Because I think that the general the people are, they're thinking how to take care of their, of their child. And I think it's understandable because they knew Okay, the system is working, the people in the in the in the Czech tennis, they, they know what they're doing. So the chance to produce good players, it's quite high. And I think I think this is this is a little bit our problem with the boys, but have said, I believe that, that we will have to three guys in the top 100, quite soon.

Daniel Kiernan  52:59

I often say if you, if you think of the top 10, or top 20 most famous female athletes of the last 15-20 25 years, you would almost have 60 70% on that list that are women's tennis players. So I think that's a global lots of global situation. If you name over the last 30 years, the top 10 most famous and highest paid women's athletes in Czech, a bet. Yeah, it's 80 90% women's tennis players. So I think they think about the opportunity as being now the thing that I want to I'm speculating. And again, please put me in my place Jan if I'm incorrect on this. What I see I guess there's, there's when we talk about a quality, there's a quality in terms of finance, there's a quality in terms of opportunity. But there's also a more subtle thing that there's a quality in terms of appreciation, and respect. And I do think that even when there's a quality of payment, prize money, there's some countries out there that don't give that same equality of appreciating appreciation and respect. Now, when I delve a little bit into Czech tennis, I know that you're one of the only countries in club tennis that has mixed teams, you know, the men and the women play together. There seems to be this more equal way of looking and respecting and appreciating what actually goes into becoming a champion. And and then add that on top of that the normalization now and the role modeling of so many, so many women that have gone through and done that. It seems to be almost the perfect cocktail to be providing this incredible conveyor belt that that scene seems to be happening.

Jan Stoces  55:01

Well, it's actually interesting. What do you what do you just say that? I don't even know that the other countries have not mixed teams in the leagues? I mean, obviously, I know, Jared, man, they have on the man's things, but I didn't know that we are the only one here, you know, maybe not the only but I think. Yeah. And, you know, we are we are keeping this tradition. And actually, I was even even talking now on some annual annual meeting, that we should not come back to playing mixed doubles, you know, as a tradition, because I feel it's really nice, you know, but it's, obviously, it's complicated, because it's, we are playing the highest league in December before Australian Open and decent then but, you know, in my opinion, in Czech Republic is definitely the respect girls and woman stand is completely, completely same way. Like, like the man's you know, and, and, you know, and also I don't, I don't like this complaining, you know, a woman's tennis men's tennis, you know, I think woman is a woman, man is a man. And, and I think there should be no discussion about this. So you know, because, you know, I think this gray is creating all the problems. And you know, in Czech, it's really, the respect, the respect is really, really even

Daniel Kiernan  56:23

a big, big topic for me, because of my, my love and passion for doubles, you know, doubles was somewhere where as a player, I felt most comfortable. As a coach, I feel most comfortable, and I'm very passionate about doubles, I love doubles, I love what it stands for, I love mixed doubles. I used to hate seeing the draw at all ages, when I saw Czech next to a player's name and the doubles draw, because I had a pretty good idea they were going to return well, especially on the backhand side, they were going to hit the ball hard, they were going to be do the basics incredibly well, you know, they weren't going to be they weren't going to be doing anything stupid, you know, they were going to be incredibly disciplined. And there has been a great history of success in doubles in Czech as well. So is that something that is is worked on is that something that again, is is is part of the of the almost ecosystem, because again, in the UK, it's down to Louis Cayer. And the amazing thing that Lucaya has done over the last 15 years. However, when I go back to my time, there was a lot of doubles in, in the, in the UK clubs, that we all learn to play doubles. And traditionally UK players, British players have been very good at doubles as well. So where does that come from?

Jan Stoces  57:53

Well, you know, this is this is for sure. Connected with, again, the traditional system because the doubles used to be really, I will not say same important, like, like singles, but it used to be very, very important. And you know, especially in the team team competitions, you know, it's like most of the times the doubles team was the deciding and you know, still in my times, you know, we've been playing afternoon to three sets doubles and we love it, it's it's have been changed single bit. And I think because now with with the opportunity of so many tournaments, sometimes the parents are are not giving so much respect to the doubles. And you know, at the moment we are the Czech system is struggling a little bit with with doubles players, and we used to have always think twice a month, but I am trying to explain to the, to the to the parents that the doubles in my, in my eyes, it's so important for developing the player, you know, I mean, you're exactly what you say you're playing, you playing returns you playing approach to playing first volley and quickly you can say it's it's sometimes much better than to go practice and because you are you're playing you're counting points you know, so in the in the in the past I mean it was really the doubles was very important during the tournaments and now now we are struggling a little bit as well a little bit of and I think it's it's in general problem of the successful tennis nations that that sometimes the parents they are they're just looking for singles and in my opinion it's is wrong because you can also throw the doubles through maybe you can also win big titles through playing doubles because you are improving your game.

Daniel Kiernan  59:49

Absolutely well my I guess my big thing around doubles there's there's not so many ways that you can make money out of this sport right as a player. You know, there's there's only So many places. And what there is, is there's also a bunch of extra places there for, for players that are able to have the expertise in doubles. And I think, as a, as a sport as an interest industry, we should be encouraging the opportunity to make a living out of this beautiful sport, you know, and I think whether that's one person on the court or two, shouldn't make that much of a difference. So I think it is, it's a big, big area. My last one, yeah, and you've been so good with your time. And if I'm not careful, I'll keep you here all day. And I'm sure you've got a home to get to have to after working hard all week. But people like myself, I'm spreading the words to all of these 164 countries about Czech Republic and what what you guys are achieving everyone's seeing it? How do you keep that? That humble approach despite people loading so much praise on the nation?

Jan Stoces  1:01:00

Why, you know, like me, me personally, I mean, I have been always humble and no, I was lucky to be coaching many great players, and, you know, and I stay with all of them in touch lacing, like your friends, you know, and I will say, you know, Lukasz Kubot, when he becomes work number one in doubles, and I was actually after he finished the singles career, I was not planning even to coach him. But then he said, Now, can you track with me I cannot be without of you and, and, you know, and he become for me, like my son, you know, and, and now, definitely the same for me for the, for the Czech, Czech Federation, you know, like, you know, I working with heart, I love this job, you know, and I'm trying, trying to help how I just can. So, you know, today we are on the top I we will try to keep it long as possible. You know, maybe one day we go, we go a little bit down, and then we can go up again. So, you know, it's, it's just great sport. And I think everybody who you've have here for talk, they, they love the sport, same so you know, I just love to tennis. And so that's why I think we all of us doing this.

Daniel Kiernan  1:02:14

Very good. And it's exactly right, and said so well. Yeah. And that's been my number one thing actually, that I've taken from these these podcasts is speaking to so many enthusiastic people that love the sport. And I think it when we're in our own bubbles, we can get a bit cynical sometimes. And, you know, we hear people complaining about things and complaining about wildcards and not having training opportunities and not been able to afford it. And before you know it, we can have a bit of a cynical view of the sport and it's just been so refreshing for me to every single person I've met, to feel the passion to feel, you know, this whole love of the sport to come through loud and clear and it certainly has the view Jan, and you're doing an amazing job. A big big well done to you and all of your team. Now, the last last question before our quick fire round. You personally you've said you've been doing this three and a half years what's your personal ambition you know, what is what's what's next? What do you want to create in this role? And what else do you want to achieve out of the sport or beyond the sport as well?

Jan Stoces  1:03:25

Well you honestly like I will of course keep trying to help young players and trying to produce next Czech professional players. And then you know of course I have also gone to to achieve the best possible result with the Billie Jean King cup and Davis Cup with because we have a great team involved you know the Davis Cup is very young team and we work to develop them to get a success and obviously we have incredible woman's team and I would love to see with this generation to hold the trophy over over my head with that with the girls will be my dream.

Daniel Kiernan  1:04:08

Amazing. Are you ready for the quick fire round?

Jan Stoces  1:04:12

Yes.

Daniel Kiernan  1:04:13

singles or doubles?

Jan Stoces  1:04:16

Singles

Daniel Kiernan  1:04:17

What does control the controllables mean to you?

Jan Stoces  1:04:22

I think it's means to me a lot of great information.

Daniel Kiernan  1:04:27

Roger or Rafa.

Jan Stoces  1:04:29

Oof, that's a tough one. I really liked both of them. They're both great friends of me I've maybe Roger is older.

Daniel Kiernan  1:04:40

Ivan or Martina

Jan Stoces  1:04:42

Ivan

Daniel Kiernan  1:04:44

Net cord or not. Should the point be replayed? Or like they do in college tennis in Tennis Europe,  just allow the point to go.

Jan Stoces  1:04:54

No, I don't love it.

Daniel Kiernan  1:04:56

Medical timeout or not

Jan Stoces  1:04:59

For injury for sure.

Daniel Kiernan  1:05:02

Under arm serves or not

Jan Stoces  1:05:05

how everybody likes

Daniel Kiernan  1:05:07

the winner of the US Open 2023 men and women's singles your prediction?

Jan Stoces  1:05:16

I will say Djokovic. And then I wish one of the Czech girls, but I didn't know which one.

Daniel Kiernan  1:05:22

You have many choices. If it's not a Czech one, then you pick another one. You're not allowed anyone from Czech Republic

Jan Stoces  1:05:33

maybe Pegula

Daniel Kiernan  1:05:35

Pegula, Nice serve or return.

Jan Stoces  1:05:40

Serve

Daniel Kiernan  1:05:45

Individual Training or group training?

Jan Stoces  1:05:49

Group Training

Daniel Kiernan  1:05:50

Favourite Grand Slam?

Jan Stoces  1:05:53

Wimbledon?

Daniel Kiernan  1:05:54

What's one rule change you would have in tennis?

Jan Stoces  1:05:59

Well, I have stopped coaching on the tour few years ago because I'm now doing the Czech Federation. But I always want that they could be official coaching available, which kind of in kind of way happening now? Which is I think right way?

Daniel Kiernan  1:06:17

And who should our next guest be on control the controllables?

Jan Stoces  1:06:22

Well, I don't know all the hundreds 98 ones. But I know who is the next one which is in the world.

Daniel Kiernan  1:06:31

But you've got to pick somebody else who you believe you can pass the baton to that she becomes your responsibility. That's the that's the podcast rule.

Jan Stoces  1:06:43

All right. So in all you have to take my former player and my older, kind of a son Lukasz Kubot .

Daniel Kiernan  1:06:53

I would love to get loot. I would love to get Lucas on Jan you've been a star. Honestly, the people are going to absolutely love that. I've loved talking to you. Thank you so much for your time.

Jan Stoces  1:07:03

No, thank you very much for everything can hopefully talk to you soon. Take care.

Daniel Kiernan  1:07:09

As ever. I have Vicki next to me to talk through that episode. And that was really cool. After all the conversations we've had recently on Czech tennis. And you know, since we've actually had that shot, we've seen that the boys and the girls teams for the first time ever, on the ITF World Team Championships under 18, which is something that is also incredible. So the the line of players is continuing. But little test for you. I guess, Vicki because there's so much information in that episode. And there's so many different learnings from it. You know, I think there's going to be people globally, listening to that with pen and paper just writing it down. Let's get the secret down. Let's see if we can put it into place. Hopefully we can summarize that for you back at home listening to this. Where do we start?

Victoria Kiernan  1:08:06

Well, I think it's got to be opportunity and accessibility opportunity for the women and that he said there weren't many other sports for them to play. So tennis is a big one, they can see a path. The parents can see a path and accessibility in terms of the number of tennis clubs, tennis courts and coaches like he said they're a small country. And actually it was at a tournament in the UK last week with our son it's a grade 3, 14 and under Edgbaston priory in Birmingham, shout out to my club. And our son had a nine o'clock match turned up about 830 So we could find someone to warm up with and I could see this boy hitting with his mum, she's in full, like skirt flats, not at all ready to play tennis had the toddler on the side. And as soon as they saw Matthew and Matthew saw the boy, they were like get here. Let's go ahead and stead and she could hit the ball really well. She came off and I got chatting and she was from Czech Republic. So I said oh look, we've we've just been talking about Czech tennis. We've just had Jan's Stoces on the on the podcast, you know, asking what is it the minute why is check tennis doing so well. And she said the exact same thing. She said the exact words accessibility. She said I'm from a small town, small town there. And in that town, we have three tennis clubs to choose from.

Daniel Kiernan  1:09:29

And I think the thing about it is, Vicki is we joke a little bit about what's the secret. And it's hard to copy that big because you you have and the word that just kept on coming to my head and I said it quite a few times was just humility is just ingrained in the identity of Czech tennis. And I would imagine of people from Czech Republic, you know, if we go back to the core of what makes A person from Czech Republic, you know that there seems to also be and Jan touched on this, this this desire to have an opportunity to go and succeed and make some money. And I can't help thinking that that lack of humility in other countries and it's nobody's fault as such it's just often identity in the way that the culture is the way that we're brought up. And it will often come down to how affluent we are what you know, what schools, facilities opportunities to make money or different work opportunities, it seems to me that as a girl, in Czech Republic, it's seen as a really big chance to go and make something of yourself. So now you're approaching it very different. Whereas some countries, and I'm sorry, to people in Ireland, but I think it's quite a good contrast. In Ireland, it will be go and play tennis once a week, as an extracurricular activity in your schooling to kind of almost add to your CV and what you do your experiences. Whereas it seems fundamentally in Czech, it's actually we played tennis because we're going to, we're going to we're going to create some champions here. And then that then brings me on to my next point on role modeling. You know, what, they've kind of got such a good place right now, where they're just, you know, we touched on there the under 18, teams winning, it seems like it's just like week after week after week at all levels. So it's very doable. It's very, it's very possible,

Victoria Kiernan  1:11:43

Wasn't there a story with three pro players came from the same club?

Daniel Kiernan  1:11:48

Yes, that was Emily Webley Smith spoke about that on the the Wimbledon review episode that we had, and, you know, some some really big names that have come from the same club. And that's not, that's something we've seen it before we've seen it from the Spartak Club in, in Moscow, you know, where there was many, many Russian players came out of, you know, I've seen relative books like table tennis like the top 10 table tennis players in the UK, all played at the same club. You know, that's quite normal. I think that, but that comes down to role modeling. Again,

Victoria Kiernan  1:12:22

I don't think it's normal three, well, not not not

Daniel Kiernan  1:12:25

normal to have them as as Top Champions, and Grand Slam champions. But I think it's normal that you do what other people do in your area. And if you have this traditional tennis club, that that's what happens. Now, it seems to me that they're dotted all around Czech Republic. So that's then what you do, you know, I've got let's get, let's get our our son or daughter into the sport of tennis, it can give them a great opportunity in this life to go make some money and make something of themselves. And our, I just need to go down the down the street to be able to do that. And we've got indoor courts. Oh, and also, we've got this amazing coach that just produces year after year after year, the basics done incredibly well, you know, installing those values of hard work of humility. And yeah, I don't think it's rocket science, you know, but it's, it's obviously not easy to create that. And you have to already have a culture and a way that the people think within that country to give it its best opportunity.

Victoria Kiernan  1:13:28

I don't know if I agree. I mean, it's not rocket science. But if it was easy, it's as easy as they're making it. Look, we'd all we'd all have three players from our clubs. On on the tour, I think it's how Jan described Czech tennis is very different to how the Spanish system works. And yet the Spanish have also been very successful the last few years on on the men's side in particular. So we talked about all the time, there's no one way to make a tennis player, it depends on the individual. And that's what he talks about a lot. The system adapts to the player. He said, You know, you asked him if there's a certain philosophy that coaches had, and he talked about technique, Czech coaches, very good on technique. He talks about having a really good tournament system. And he talked about the centers that they have the main tennis centers, but I think the biggest thing for me was that they adapt to the player.

Daniel Kiernan  1:14:24

Absolutely. And I think just one thing I'd like to share is, there's a difference between a complex situation and a complicated situation. I always think that developing 10 tennis players is very complex. It's not necessarily like ridiculously difficult is one in that way other than you've got to get a lot of things in place. And that's what it seems. That's what I'm saying that it's not rocket science, because what they have in place is they've got, they've got a culture in place where One tennis is accessible two they've got fantastic coaches and players that are teaching the fundamentals. Three, they've got a great competition structure in place. And that put a massive smile on my face, because that's my, my big one, if he turned around and said, there's no competition structure, my theory will be out the window, you know, so that was really pleasing. But then what you then have is, people that are having access to the sport, or coming in with the mindset of, we can do something with our tennis and we can make a life and that's the bit that some countries just don't have that. And to change that culture in some countries is almost impossible. You know, but they seem to have hit on a bit of a goldmine there in terms of, they've got the right mindset of people for an individual sport, like tennis, and then they've got the right facilities, they've got the right tournaments, they've got the right resources. So that's what I mean, it's, it's, it's complex to get those things in place. But But once you've got them in place, you know, that's I guess, rocket science will be quite complicated. You know, that's not something that anybody can do. You know, it's so complicated to get the right thing. And that's the, that's, I guess, I working through it in my head a little bit. And it's fascinating to have these conversations. And I certainly love what you've said there as well about, about the system, adapting, because it's also not just one way, you know, he was very clear on that, even though certain things are, you know, their training in the six national tennis centers, the 16 regional centers, you know, they've got a certain way of working, however, they are having to flex, having to flex to that and making sure the players get what the players need, without spoiling them and making them entitled as well. That was important.

Victoria Kiernan  1:16:50

I was wondering if there was going to be like a real competitive side to the women's I had a look at the WTA rankings this week. And this five inside the top 25 in the world. So a fifth for 12 I think, yeah, for inside 12. And then the fifth is Pliskova. So I was thinking, are they do they encourage each other? Are they super competitive, but Vondrousova after winning, Wimbledon was saying how they're really encouraging and it's a really nice atmosphere. And I guess with any scenario, when you've got a good group, you do naturally push each other on. And yeah, by the sound of the juniors as well, they've got that coming all the way through, they've got some serious depth

Daniel Kiernan  1:17:29

They do but go back to that word humility again, like Vondrousova just won Wimbledon. And I've just got back from Cincinnati. She was just, she was walking around as if she was someone that was helping clean the dishes in the in the Players Lounge, you know, the lack of ego, oh, like zero literally, like the same with Muchova. You know, that these these girls that are having these exceptional results, you know, absolutely exceptional results. Final of final of Roland Garros winning Wimbledon, nothing seems to have changed in our nuts. That's also I think the beauty of humility being at the core of what of what the culture isn't. And I think we're getting a lot of things, a lot of things right. And it was a real pleasure kind of getting that insight from Jan, who I must say myself as well came across in an incredibly humble manner. Yeah, he

Victoria Kiernan  1:18:30

1. And he also confirmed our 200th guest. If I had a drum roll, you do it. Doing I'm doing the action I don't have there was the word I'm looking for. The you know, when you play a sound effect, if I had the drum roll sound effect, I would have done it. But Jan, basically stole our thunder and told everyone but yes, we have got, drumroll,

Daniel Kiernan  1:18:59

Sir Andrew Murray. And we said we said we would get him at some point. And yeah, he has finally come on to control the controllables it's, it's like it's like a podcast winning Wimbledon. You know, the excitement level of excitement. It's extremely, extremely high. And if you have waited till till this very end, and you you are, you are our special listeners who stayed till the very end and we have a little reward for you. For you to hear a little 20/30 second clip of Andy Murray control the controllables episode 200

Andy Murray  1:19:40

When my kids were they're still young, but when they were younger that I was like, it would be nice to keep playing. You know, so that they'll be able to potentially see me play, you know, Wimbledon or so they're old enough to understand what it is that I do for a living and they don't care. They really they really don't care. And yet yeah, yeah.

Victoria Kiernan  1:20:06

How cool is that? Sir Andy Murray on control the controllables I'm still a bit giddy sitting here. I've listened to it twice already. I couldn't wait to listen to it once Dan had recorded it. And actually even when he was recording it, and it was ridiculous, I was trying to eavesdrop through the wall. But obviously I could only hear Dan had his headphones on. So I could only hear Dan speaking, I couldn't actually hear any of what Andy was saying. But I was like, oh, it's been an hour so far. And they're still they're still chatting. I was trying to work out of him how long his replies were, how well your questions

Daniel Kiernan  1:20:39

are speaking more than me. Yeah, that's, that's the whole point was

Victoria Kiernan  1:20:42

he was yeah, there was a lot of long pauses where I lost interest went went made a cup of tea, but it's a really good one is a really good one. It's been keeping me entertained as I've we've been training for the Great North Run, which is rapidly approaching as well.

Daniel Kiernan  1:20:56

So Andy Murray will be will be dropping into your podcast, inbox, wherever it is, whatever platform that you listen to these podcasts on, on Friday, August the 25th. It's a one. Come on, get it on social media, you know, you're in the know if you've managed to listen to the very end of this episode, you know, Control the Controllables 200th episode, and lots of people don't. So we will give you permission to share it far and wide. Get the excitement levels up because it really is worth it. Andy was a star. He doesn't do podcasts. It's not the sort of thing that he does. So for him to jump on and give you the time that he has. We really need to get that far and wide. But until next time, I'm Dan Kiernan and we are Control the Controllables