Stanford Evans Boster - One voice, two weapons!

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Daniel Kiernan  00:09

Welcome to Control the Controllables. I'm Dan Kiernan from SotoTennis Academy in Spain, and we teamed up with Macx Tennis Academy in Ireland. We brought this podcast together to entertain, educate, and energize the tennis community through the different lenses of the sport that we love. From Grand Slam champions to those at grassroots level, from sports journalists, to backroom staff. Our aim is truly to get under the bonnet of the tennis world at all levels. So sit back and enjoy the show. Did you see him being a world number one, a Grand Slam champion?

Stanford Evans Boster  00:53

No chance. Okay. I mean, I didn't know anything. I was a complete rookie. And I was coach. Yeah, I was. I was coaching him. I was coaching Mardy Fish. But I had no luxury of comparing them to anything because it was my first go around.

Daniel Kiernan  01:09

Welcome to Episode 148 of Control the Controllables. And the one thing I love about this guest is it makes us mere mortals feel a little bit better about ourself that he was coaching a future world number one. Yeah, he said he was a rookie. And that guest is Stanford Evans Boster. Stan has an amazing story comes from South Africa, moved over to America at an early stage in his coaching career. And he went on he coached Andy Roddick. He coached Mardy Fish. He coached David Martin Bradley Clan. He has been a big part of the USTA or was up until fairly recently, where he was responsible alongside other coaches for the likes of Stefan Kozlov, Taylor Fritz, Tommy Paul, Reilly Opelka, Francis Tiafoe, you know, a real golden generation that has come through the Federation out in the USA. And Stan was a massive, massive part in that. And now he's running his own independent tennis coaching set up. And one of the players he's working with made the final of junior Wimbledon last year. Stan brings many stories, a lot of great insights is truly honest with the way that he speaks and he's going to be a fantastic guest for you to listen to. But before we do, move over to Stan and start off the episode, I just want to dedicate this podcast to Freddie Nielsen, who has announced his retirement from professional tennis today. Freddie's a good friend of mine. He's a good friend of the podcasts. And he's brought many special memories to us. And I have to say he was him and Jonny Marray were the inspiration behind Control the Controllables if we go back all of those months, when we wanted to bring their amazing 2012 Wimbledon title story to you. So thank you, Freddie, thanks for being a good partner over the years, a good friend and someone who's inspired us, but also a great guest on the podcast, and someone who we hope to have with us next week with the Australian Open Review. I'm sure that Stan will do you proud with this episode. I'm gonna pass you over to Stanford Evans Boster. So Stanford Evans Boster. A big welcome to Control the Controllables. How you doing?

Stanford Evans Boster  03:48

Thank you, Dan. Thanks for having me.

Daniel Kiernan  03:50

And as I as I give that name out, and then I hear the South African accent. They don't go together, Stan. So what what's with the American name and the South African accent? Yeah.

Stanford Evans Boster  04:04

Get asked that all the time. You know, obviously, living in America now. So it goes hand in hand with an American name. Living in the country. But yeah, basically my mum, who's South African came to America and lived here for I think about 16 years. And married my dad was with American and I was conceived in America, that he actually died before I was born. So she went back to South Africa. And I was born there. And that's, you know, I lived there for 24 years, and then made my way back to the States. Yeah, I think in 1994, I didn't think I'd be here. I mean, that's like, How many years is that? Goodness gracious. 26, 27 years I've been here now. And if someone had said that to me in 1994, I'd be here 27 years later, like no chance. Certainly not coaching. Yeah, the coaching is a funny part because you know, you started coaching and I got into it by total fluke in what he said, like, what how did you have this whole thing happen? It's like, well, I didn't know what to do with my life. I'd gotten a commerce degree in South Africa. And when I finished my degree, I just like, well, what now? And I happened to have a baby passport, an American Baby passport. Which expired I think when I was like four years old, and I went to the embassy in Cape Town, and basically set them as I referenced at passport explained when I was four. What can I get for it? And they say, Oh, just give us the equivalent of 10 bucks at that stage. And wait half an hour. And next thing you have an American passport. So putting pretty cool actually. Yeah, just just bought out bought a airline ticket two days later, with about 250 bucks in my pocket. I had no idea. I mean, I was I was gonna land in DC. I had no idea where I was going, what I was going to do. And yeah, I just got on a plane and told my, my girlfriend at the time with my wife now Else, I'm going to America, I don't know what I'm gonna do or where I'm going. And, yeah, we basically had this arrangement where, like, I wasn't gonna look for anybody, and she wasn't going to look for anybody. And if it all worked out, it worked out. So we have 27 years later, we're still together.

Daniel Kiernan  06:36

Amazing, what, what a great story to start us off, Stan. And it's and with that? I guess the question in my head is why? Why America? What was what was it about America? Was it because of, of your past? You know, and from your mom and from your dad, who you'd unfortunately never met? You know what, what was dragging you towards just gone and trying your hand in America?

07:02

Yeah, I mean, as I said, like, if you're telling me I'd be 27 years later, I'm like, There's no way. I mean, I'm South African. I love my rugby, I played rugby. It was just, I think, I didn't even appreciate now, I really appreciate America. But it took me about 10 years to appreciate it. Like, I live in Florida, it's the tropics, it's paradise. I think I'm gonna go to the beach for the first five years that I was in Florida. And now I'm at the beach, whatever I can pretty much every second day. So I didn't really have an appreciation for it. And I really just stumbled on to the whole coaching thing. Why America or any other places in the world, I did have a feeling that South Africa was, you know, there's a change of change of regime. I had a feeling that it might go like the rest of Africa, you know, sadly, you know, you don't want any, that's not something you want to be reliant on. But unfortunately, you know, South Africa has gone downhill, and it's still a great country to live in. You have to have a lot of money. It's not very safe from a crime is high. And looking back now, my wife and I were like, wow, we're pretty fortunate to get out. But we've never really got out. It wasn't a conscious decision. It's just like, well, we have a feeling it might go bad. I've got the smallest board. Let's go and explore the world a little bit. Got got to America, and actually went back to South Africa in 1995, because the Rugby World Cup was on. I'm a huge rugby fan. And then wasn't going to come back actually to to America. But then I got a phone call from John edit Chris Evans brother in 96. Saying, well, I'm starting an academy that actually took a Do you remember Roberts degree so that was where

Daniel Kiernan  08:58

Well I have I have to jump in a little bit here, Stan? Because in 19, I want to say 93 I won a big The Daily Telegraph in the UK. The Sunday Telegraph ran a big competition. You had to write in and see why you would were with a person to win to win a month I believe it was at this new academy in Boca Raton, so Seguso-Bassett, so I applied for that I remember writing something down, you know, whatever my story was at that time, and then went down for this big day down in London. I was picked into the last, let's say 60 Boys 60 Girls, and my dad had to persuade me to stay to hear the selection. Like I didn't cross my mind. I was going to be selected. And my name got called out much to my surprise. And the next thing I knew a couple of couple of weeks later, I was on a plane out of Florida to spend to spend a month me in a girl Helen Richardson. We spent we ended up spending a full month at that  Seguso-Bassett in probably one of its first ever weeks. Yeah. And they actually offered me a bit of a scholarship to go back after that but I also at the same time the LTA had come in and offered and offered me to go to the National Tennis School. And I absolutely loved my time there loved it. It was all very new. You know, the buildings were very new. All of those. Yeah, brand new. So so our timelines nearly crossed. That's crazy.

Stanford Evans Boster  09:17

So you remember Nick Crowther, because he was there?

Daniel Kiernan  10:40

Yes very well, I knew Nick very well ,

Stanford Evans Boster  10:44

That boy could play. You can good. Yeah, so it's crazy. So I ended up basically when I landed in DC, and in April of 1994, I had no idea was going to do so I actually picked up the back of a TENNIS Magazine crazy and look for jobs. Passing, you know, was kind of a saw Virtus man or whatever, maybe not looking for jobs. But back this new academy in Boca Raton, Florida. Of course, I didn't even have a clue where Boca Raton, Florida was geographically no idea of the size of the US come from a little South Africa. I mean, obviously, I'm pretty educated, got a good education. But geographically no concept. So landed in DC, with 250 bucks in my pocket. And I had a look at the price for hotels. I'm like, okay, I'm good for one night. Yeah, it's kind of crazy. So I took a whole bunch of telephone numbers of guys that were friends of friends, but I didn't know them. And I called this one guy. And I said this and make you don't know me at all. But we have mutual friends in South Africa. And I'm going to go to trouble. So I've got about enough money for one night to stay here. And yeah, do you have a place with his feet? It was pretty cool. It was as a bug when guy older guy Supreme Court judge actually kicked out of Zimbabwe by Robert Mugabe when that whole thing changed? Yeah, pretty cool. And I slept on the floor for three or four days and picked up the Tennis Magazine. And I call that as your use of assets. And you remember Greg Holden, the Canadian Davis Cup winner.

Daniel Kiernan  12:17

I've heard that name. Definitely.

Stanford Evans Boster  12:19

He was the academy director when you would have been there, I think. And I called and I called this guy, Greg. And, you know, he goes, we'll have your coach before. And I'm like, No, not really not much. And I play a little bit, because we'll and then he asked me, Do you know a guy called John, you, John, he was a very good tennis player, very good coach in South Africa. And I said, No, I don't know, John. I've played against a lot of the guys. He's coach. He goes, Oh, that's good enough, he got the job. And then I said to him, once again, geographically, no idea where I am. So I said to him, so can I take a cab down? Or like, how long would it take, you know, you cannot take a cab to DC

Daniel Kiernan  13:01

Your 250 bucks have definitely gone now.

Stanford Evans Boster  13:05

So I spent 170 of that ticket one way ticket down to Fort Lauderdale, and got picked up in the academy then. And the deal was 200 bucks a week. You would coach for us in the morning and the afternoon, you could still play and all that. Not that I was ever trying to be a player but you know, didn't know what to do. And yeah, free food and lodging. And that was it. That's where I started and actually got into the whole coaching thing. And I was like, wow, it's just you know, I really enjoy it. I really enjoy kind of trying to make a difference with the kids, even though I never really coached before didn't really have an idea. But I guess the one thing that you know, industry that you cannot Bluff is passion. When you're when you're passionate about it, and then the kids pick it up, and then it's easy, then to move very easily influenced them. So anyway, we backtracked a little bit. But you know, I have no interest in going back, really, but my wife, what my girlfriend at the time, said to me, he's like, we're definitely going back. I think, you know, once again, she she saw the writing on the wall in South Africa. And she wanted to go and some options. So there was a got back on a plane, flew back to Evatts, and we have started running a high performance program. Although I'm not really a high performance coach of that stage, I'm just a coach that's passionate. That kind of brings, you know, brings kind of like old school rugby training, mentality discipline, and all of those things to do the training. And, you know, it's crazy, because when I played in South Africa, and I wasn't a good player, like you guys, but I mean, I've never done cross court foreheads in my life before. I'd go to the tennis club, and we warm up you play mini tennis for 45 minutes and then go play sets. You know, I ended up being decent in South Africa, decent junior, and stuff like that. But I mean, one of the ones cross holds down the line two and one's joking but It really was. So a lot of my initial coaching was just like putting kids in scenarios, playing situations, and then trying to help them become better competitors. And yeah, now look at the way I train people is very different from I think, I really don't know, you see cross courts down, you've seen cross board down the line, you've done all the controls. Yeah, controls are vital. But yeah, it's stuff that are figured out or the way but definitely wouldn't not have considered myself a high performance coach, even though it's given that position.

Daniel Kiernan  15:32

I'm smiling Stan, because it's, it's, there's so much in this world that people think that they've got to, they've got to plan out x, y, and z, they've got to do this, this, this and that before they're before they're given certain positions. But, but just hearing your story, and I think it's quite a, it's quite a consistent story in some ways, that when you see people that are successful in this sport, that they're giving their time for next to nothing to get to the next level, in on being able to put themselves in a position where actually, we almost don't see the failure in it. It's just like, No, no, that's I want to give this a bit of a go. I am extremely passionate and we're gonna throw myself at it. It's amazing, then what doors can then open. And and I think there's just so many people that maybe don't think that certain things in this sport are possible. You know, when they are, you know, that they really are. So, I think your story is unbelievably inspirational. And I hope that people listening can can take from it what I'm what I'm sure they will, but the what what am I things and you've touched on it there, Stan, but as you were talking, I was thinking right, but what because when I've looked up and I've no, I've been lucky enough to I think I met you for the first time maybe back in 2012. Potentially traveling with you.

17:02

Actually no, actually. Correct me if my memory I'm definitely going to roll there. But I'm pretty sure you are playing when you were still playing. You played in Jamaica a couple of Futures in 2003 or 2004. And you played one of my gods It was either Luca Gregory or Robert Haberle. You played. Okay. So we and you were you were chopping them up. But then the Jamaican heat got the better you got so well, like you were while you were getting, you know, until the Jamaican heat kicked in. You were chopping him up that I do remember 2003 2004 That's right there.

Daniel Kiernan  17:44

I was there with Mr. Sherwood, me and Mr. Sherwood were winning all the doubles events there. And he was he was sat on his balcony, smoking a cigarette. And I would then look up at the balcony and saying, Come on Dave, where we've got our much to play now. And he would come out. And ironically, he was he never, he never struggled in the heat in Jamaica. Whereas I was I was the one in the gym trying to get myself in good shape, and I struggled. So it's an ironic story. One of the things I never knew about you, Stan, was you before? Well, I didn't know that story, how you started coaching, which I think is amazing. But before we go more into your coaching, because when people then hear who you've coached, and what you've achieved as a coach, when that's where you started, it really is an incredible story. But I never knew about your playing bit. And I know you've downplayed it there. But what how did you get started in tennis back in South Africa? Was it? Was it something you did to national level or regional level and international level? How far did you tennis? Go? And how did that start?

Stanford Evans Boster  18:51

Yeah, I mean, basically just being at the tennis club, like I think a lot of kids start with their parents, you know, Mama, Mom play tennis and the tennis clubs in South Africa. Almost like like a Europe thing. They kind of raised, you know, you're there. You go there with your mom, your dad dropped you off. I mean, in the morning, and you're hitting against the wall, and then you're getting hitting against the 85 year old guys, and you're safe. It's a safe environment and you just playing sport, it's a very healthy environment. And that was it. You know, we we had no money, so no lessons. So basically the wall became my coach and watching television became my coach. Yeah, and I've been, you know, when I say decent, got to, I think numbers evasion of six in the country in juniors, you know, in our little, you know, little Mickey Mouse pro, you know, domestic pro money tournaments type thing. I think I ended up maybe about 12. You know, one of the guys the error that I grew up with this is the pretty cool part is that the age group just before me the year younger than me and a year older than me that is waiting for error markets on Driscoll A grant Stafford David Mencken, that doubles players were a joke that was Maurice Barnard who, you know that in England, PD more Val Aliette. Chris haggard, I mean, it was an incredible generation. And I never beat any of those guys that were much better than me. But this is the area you grew up with. And actually, I think that growing up in that era, you didn't, necessarily I never considered myself good. But those are the guys you were playing with. And do you or do you sometimes I would play them tight. As I said, I'd never beat any of them in singles. But the level was decent, because they were decent, you know, the results in speaking for themselves with a lot of these guys going and actually making careers especially from the doubles perspective. And then we you know, the I would say that's the extent of my, my, my tennis playing in South Africa, actually played professional ranked law professional, I play for a university called Stellenbosch University, which is for minorities. So this rugby University in South Africa, it's the biggest rugby club in the world. And, and pretty much wherever you if you play for this rugby club, and you up in the first team, or the second team is a 99% chance you'll play for the Stormers . And there's about a 50% chance for the Springboks. Yeah. So very, very strong. I went there on a tennis scholarship, it was Mickey Mouse money. But when I got they had, this, it's called a first year tournament, whether it's all the freshmen don't play rugby. And I happened to be in a team that was pretty good. They made me look good. And the next thing you know, the club had said, well, we'll give you the right the scholarship instead of a tennis scholarship. So that was that was pretty funny, because pretty much them for four years. I didn't play any kind of snow was just ended up playing for them. And yeah, a lot of the guys that I played with, were actually a couple of the guys that I played with. Were part of that 9095 Rugby World Cup team. And actually one.

Daniel Kiernan  22:11

It still at Stellenbosch is it's a beautiful place. I was very I was very lucky to go. I went there for a couple of ITF Junior events, and four or five years ago, and absolutely stunning, stunning campus. Beautiful place to go to university, I would imagine.

Stanford Evans Boster  22:29

Yeah no, it was amazing. My degree took me five years, that degree supposed to take three years. And that's all because playing rugby and a couple of my teammates also happened to own wine farms. So I think I spent more time I think I spent more time in the wine cellars than actually going to class. That's why the degree took a little bit longer. It wasn't five years. It's four and a half years, but it's supposed to take three so yeah, one of the famous wine farms is less than Frieda and that guy, his dad was a Springbok coach. And anyway, we played together, much rugby and and another one is was called Blau clip. And so yeah, two of my buddies own wine farms. So you do what you do. You go and learn to appreciate some of the good reds in the cinema chair, as I'm sure you did.

Daniel Kiernan  23:21

It's a good university life to have and all and all of that experience. Stan, just to bring you back is now you're now head of high performance program at the Evert. I didn't realize that that Seguso-Bassett was so short in its name so Evert obviously took over pretty quickly. And then it can't have been long before then. You started working with the likes of Andy Roddick and Marty fish.

23:51

Yeah, so basically started the April 96. And I went back to South Africa for a little three week vacation in December. And when I got back, John Evert, it is like listen, I've got this kid. Andy Roddick, he's a pretty good 14 year old. I want you to take him privately, every morning before the program. So I think we would go pretty much like 6.30 to eight, or you know what, and then he would actually go to school and then he'd come to the the program in the afternoon. And I mean, I've heard of this kid and actually seen him play 14 nationals in Fort Lauderdale the year before. Just a very confident kid. Small, you know, not not a big, big boy. But his brother was actually very good. John Roddick was actually very good. And I mean, and he was just a great competitor. So anyway, here this is how our paths crossed and John said Take him in the mornings. And we started this thing and let's call it a February 97 I started with him and then it got to US Open 97 And I actually got fired from Evertts because it was a bit of a, I had three other girls who were top 10 in the world ITF who Tracy syndrome, Lauren columbaria. and clear. And I was coaching Andy and I was supposed to go to the US Open. And John and I are friends now we get along, you know, we watch the other side. But this is the reality of what happened is basically, our top program was ridiculously good. We dominated Kalamazoo, we had, I had a whole bunch of South Africans that are brought in working for us, for the likes of Jason Shirk was also very good with UCLA. And I think we had about six South African coaches, because they pretty much work for free. Good and good work ethic, you know, so one of the things that happened is that our top program was phenomenal. But everything below that it was a little subpar. And I, I, one of the biggest things about me is that I'm almost, I'm too honest. And I get into trouble for that. And the parents would come to me and say, Well, you know, we see what's going on at the top, it's great. But down below is looking pretty shabby. And I say, You know what, I don't know what to tell you. You're right. I mean, it's, it's not great. You know, we're looking at improving and stuff like that, but it's not great. Anyway, I didn't end up going to US Open with my players, because John wanted me to go with them and needed to be there. Anyway, we had got back to a guy called Bob Kane, who at that stage was running IMG, that I wasn't really supportive of the program. So when I got back, yeah, I was handed my marching orders. And here's the funny blog. And I joked with John about this, John ever demanded now. But he's like, listen, we're going to have to get you good looks like you don't really believe in the program, per se. And you can take Ruddick with you because it's never gonna amount to anything like Taylor didn't. Because at that stage, Taylor Dance was dominating us junior tennis. And it was classic. I can't tell you how many times I actually use that to motivate her knee when you're losing a match. We will be in Panama. And he had one that was a great three, he wanted Costa Rica, and Panama. And he was losing to this Turkish guy who's actually I were friends on Facebook, because I have no Instagram and Twitter. Facebook is the only social media has but I only have friends and family on there. It's like nobody on there that I don't know pretty well. So and he played this Turkish guy, and this Turkish guy like was was way bigger than Andy and the night before. was quite funny. Because I was in the pool and the Turkish guy and his coach, were talking they were talking about playing Roddick and yeah, man, you've got way too much firepower for this little kid and all these things. Okay, we'll see how it works out. Anyway, and he does end up losing the first set. And I shot over to him I'm like, Hey, man, just remember you're never going to be telling a dead man, it's it's, it's all it took. And he just he turns it on. And then he goes and beats his guy in the heat and then ends up losing in the final turn accolade was a lot older than him. But yeah, I used that. I used that weaponry a lot. Because he was small, you know, he ended up growing, even when we parted ways like two and three quarter years later, which is about probably about three weeks before the US Open in 1999. When we parted. He was he was little, you know, and then Danny grew up and he grown at some big tools. And I actually remember him playing Lee childs in the opening round of the Orange Bowl that year 99 and lead drummed him in there. Remember that Queens Invitational they had 16 juniors,

Daniel Kiernan  28:44

I remember. I well, I actually, I went to watch that year because I was I was living with Lee and James Nelson, national tennis school. So we went to watch because Andy and Marty, were playing in that event. So I don't, I don't remember. But I saw one of them. I think beat Andy.

Stanford Evans Boster  29:07

I think Lee beat him and I think Barker's Barkley was coaching all the boys at this age. My views are such good times. But anyway, so I think I think leads run the other economy was up in the morning, but I think why do you one, maybe two more to that. And he definitely wants to leave and then he destroyed him and opening round of orange ball. Different player you know, change rackets babylights. Still, but yeah, they Yeah, he got big. Three months.

Daniel Kiernan  29:39

Did you see him being a world number one or Grand Slam champion?

Stanford Evans Boster  29:45

No chance. Okay. I mean, I didn't know anything. I was a complete rookie. Coach. Yeah, I was. I was coaching him. I was coaching body fish. I mean, the one thing I always bring to the table is work ethic, but I have no experience. If you ask me that Now, even now, if I look at, okay, I can see some traits possibly. I have a kid right now that's 17 years old. That's very good. It's three in the wall and juniors and he played Indian Wells qualities this year. Now I can identify it. I look at this kid, I'm like, Man, this kid can do things at 17 years old that those guys couldn't do. And I have the luxury of comparisons. But I have no luxury of comparing them to anything because it was my first go around. So what I mean, and I think for anybody to ever say, I mean, a guy like Roger Federer made easy you see that? You like that? Okay. Yeah, you know, he's gonna be good. 20 grands deep. I don't think anybody ever knows that other stuff. But no, there was no chance that, that I knew he was going to be number one. There's no chance. I thought I'd have two guys talk to him. And then Marty got to six or seven. You know, back end of the career, you know, no way. I think it'd be a brave man to to call out anybody that's going to you can say top 10 Number one Grand Slam champion.

Daniel Kiernan  31:07

That's a different Yeah, but get but that's what I mean. Did you see him as a? Did you see him having a pro Korea when you saw that he was he was that good?

Stanford Evans Boster  31:17

Well, in my in my naivety and my ignorance. Yes. Yeah. What was our basing that on? basing it on just like what I saw him do? Like we had actually straight off of that Queens Invitational. There was a tournament in Winston Salem, and it was a it was an exhibition. And it was guys like Todd Martin, Alex O'Brien, Cecil Mamet Paul Goldstein. And then there were two juniors invited. And those two juniors were Marty and Andy. And Andy was drawn against Paul Goldstein and lost in three sets can't remember the exact school but you know, for the third or something, and Goldie was like 60 in the world, and and he was still 16 years old. And that made me realize that and I know there's an exhibition, but it was big money exhibition. I think the first round was like, 10 Jesus something if you want it, so it's like, okay, and then and then Marty actually beat Cecil Manor, and Cecil was so 60 5060 in the world. So it was only then that I realized like, Okay, hang on. These guys can actually play everybody, some level Asada, juniors? Because I mean, before that, that yeah, it was kind of tough, because in, not in, it was rough. And Andy and I, because in April 99, he got injured, and he hurt his back. And I had a group and it was, you know, it was Marty fish. It was David Martin. You remember David Weiss? Yeah, very, very good player. I had Chris Martin and his brother I bow Hodge was a very good player. And we had, we had a scheduled to go to Asia. But Andy couldn't go because his back was hurt. And this is kind of where things sort of going a little arrived. Because, you know, the other guys kept winning and performing and Andy couldn't really play and eventually he came over for one week for the Philippines. That was pretty average. And then his first comeback to him. It was actually the French Open. And who does it draw? Jarkko Nieminen us, you know, I mean, you're a good dad player. And he you know, for an American on Play Jarocho that there wasn't a good role. And then we went to Wonderland and he, he beat Wayne Wong from Hong Kong, I remember that. And then he lost to a British wildcard. And which is, in my mind is never a shock because the Brits know how to play on grass. And whenever you draw one of those guys on cross, it's dangerous. Like this year, I had two of my guys drove British wild cars. And I'm like, boys, take this more seriously than anybody that's in the top five, if these guys grew up on this stuff, so this is where it was, he got injured, and I wasn't able to spend as much time with him and then slowly but surely got to Kalamazoo and actually lost the David Martin, I think in the quarters, maybe. And then his mom said to me, Listen, we need you to go back one on one with Andy. And I'm like, Well, how do I do that? How do I walk away from, you know, for that? So that was that was August 1909. And that's where that came to an end.

Daniel Kiernan  34:20

There's so many there's so many directions. I'd love to go because I think it's like people want to know about successful developmental stories. And but I think I think the one thing that hits me and one of my my theories, untested, you know, it's just a feeling that I get is the young naivety that you should potentially lead to you giving a stronger belief to those youngsters, the two you know, so So if we take Andy and Mardy as the as the two that went on to have the highest ranking, sometimes, and I'd love to get your thoughts on this, once you've been through the journey a few times, you're maybe a little less enthusiastic with youngsters, because it's like, well, we've been there done it, many players don't make it, you know, and, and subconsciously, maybe don't give as much enthusiasm and as much belief into into the players. You know, I just wonder what your reflection is now, kind of 20 years on, you know, do you think almost that naivety, you had worked in the favor of those boys in terms of what you installed in them?

Stanford Evans Boster  35:43

I think the naivety works, this is a two pronged answer. I'll go I'm gonna go to the second place. First, I'm more passionate about what I do now than than what I was when I started 27 years ago, and when you're not done here, but this 17 year old kid that, you know, we're gonna go ahead, sir, it's on a Sunday, seven days a week, we just gotta hit serves. And then you know, the one of my guys and preparing for a futures. And I think I don't think I've had a day off since maybe November, I took Christmas day off. But November, maybe second, that was the last day off I had. Because to me, it's really not a solid job. And actually said, the other day is I had a parent asked me about, you know, how do I keep going and doing it back? This seems very simple. I said, because if they fail, I fail. And I know it sounds cliche, you know, but I'm not interested in failing that I'm not. I hate losing in whatever I do. So I want to make sure that these guys I want to I don't want I don't want to be the reason that that doesn't make it you know, I think what is that? Is that pride? It's definitely a motivating factor. I don't know how much longer I'll do it. The body is definitely getting broken up the passion that's greater now than it actually ever was. Because especially now and I look at this one kid I've got now. And I'm like Jesus, this kid, this kid's got it. You know, he's really, really good at that. It's really exciting. But the naivety to get back to the second part of the question. That is actually what, why I think I was I was able to get a little bit of success. And I'll give you the classic classic example. I didn't really know how to go about it. So I thought to myself, well, I've got to get on the road. That's I've got to get on the road and go to international events. And I'm gonna watch coaches, I'm going to watch international coaches. I'm going to watch the levels, because in America already then I felt the levels were dropping not not that I really knew. But I just like, my guys were winning. They're winning nationals per se. And they they're already at the top there. So I mean, what's the point? Let's get out. And I remember going down to a grade for it Porte Alegra in Brazil, which is now a great a incredible tournament. And there was an exhibition and you remember these names, you remember, Matias Hillstrom, your Swedish guy number one of the world and he was playing an exhibition against Marcus Daniel, not the not the Kiwi, Marcus Daniel, this is the Brazilian, you remember him as well. And I was sitting there with Andy and I was watching this tennis and then I was like, oh my god, how am I ever? It's quite funny. How, how am I ever going to get him to play like these guys? That was my thought. And so this is my naivety is what actually made me decent because I'd looked at what they were doing. And also saw the way the game was going at this stage. Now, you had the guys coming through everybody dominating with four hands. That wasn't the same thing five years before that, you know, it was like, the putting balls in court, you know, serve and volley before then I noticed like the lawyers, you know, various fatigue is those guys coming through and dominating with a forehand and I'm like, this is the way the game is going for sure that that in the serve. So that's was my own take on it and all my players for the most part, you know, bodies forehead is always a little suspect. But you know, slipping. Great Did he figure out how to manage it. That to me, obviously the serve and the forehand are two big things so that I saw that by watching the game. But then just honestly throwing the guys in the deep end, like if I was at a tournament and I saw the number one seed I just got to the garden I can't make you want to practice with his kid. He's not your level, but you want to practice. And funnily enough, the guys will actually step up. So I'm like because I didn't know. So I just kept always threw them in the deep end i and we spent a lot of time on the road, actually to the point where I know that Andy at one stage I got really burned out of the rug. But it was going to be baptism by fire. And this is how I was going to learn this. I wasn't going to learn, you know on a training course. And this is the part that you and I Don't go earlier. To me, it's the process that if you, I honestly don't think making a top 100 player is difficult. I actually think it's extremely easy. And a lot of people go, Jesus, that's a big goal. And I'm like, No, well, I've had like seven guys that have taken the benefit of the top 100 And maybe another 20 that are between 100 and 150. Is that because they're just that good? No, no, because it's actually not that hard. You do need the right person, you need the right horse, you need the guy that wants to put in the work and wants to compete, yes, you need those. But if you've got those things, it's actually not and they're difficult. The difficult part comes in finding somebody that's prepared to go through the trenches with you. You know, be in God knows Bangladesh for four weeks, as you know, the junior ITF rankings you can go into the next level, I once went on the road for three months, without seeing my wife, you've got to have the coach that's prepared to do that. If you don't have that, that you have very little chance. We know tennis is a very expensive sport. So you've got to have the financial ability to afford the coach to go on the road. Because traveling, training at home, it's inexpensive, that's not that expensive. It's the traveling abroad. Well, you know, traveling that really kills you from an expense perspective. So if you have the financial means, and you actually have a coach that's prepared to live and die with you, and once again, I think coaching in my mind honestly is overrated Dan. It is so overrated. But passion and knowing I would say how to pick a guy up when he just got his butt beat in flippin India and you got food poisoning. And you know, you can't practice because there's one practice call within pretty much everything sucks. How do you pick him up? How do you keep yourself motivated? This is what makes players like, I've never really seen anybody that didn't make it. That didn't give up the guys that that stay the course they make it. I mean, you look at guys like Victor stretta, you know, 2829 30 years old breaking top 100 If you really want to do this age thing is just a number. I mean, obviously, you got to have some sort of skill, you know, you can't be a complete Muppet, and expect to be top 100. But if you've got the work ethic, and you've got a little bit of physicality, you know, a little bit of a decent athlete, and you've got a coach in your corner that's prepared to go through this process that knows the steps, I think knowing the steps is important, because I think a lot of guys, when they try to develop players, they miss steps. And this is where things go wrong. You know, simple little things like you didn't matter what level you're at, you better be winning around 65% In my mind, you know, you if you're winning more than that, you're probably at the wrong level. And if you're, you know, winning less than that, you're probably at the wrong level as well. And I've heard that number have been thrown around plenty of times between 60 and 70%. Maybe 70 is too high. So, I mean, how difficult can it be? I've got to look at the look at the win ratio, I'm trying to get between 80 and 110 singles matches a year, throwing a couple of double matches, I've got to make sure I've got some weapons, I'm gonna make sure that I'm taking care of my body. So that's, you know, there's the the injury prevention is great. I mean, it's not that difficult to make it tough on your player.

Daniel Kiernan  43:29

There'll be people listening, that will be gone. I'll come on to come on, Stan, come on, Stan. And I think you know, ultimately, what what people that are listening that are thinking that they don't have your passion. And I think that's the I want you in my corner. If I'm trying to be a player listening to you, I want you in my corner. I you know I even if I didn't know you would all Stanl you know, listening to you. So how many? How many coaches? How many coaches have that, you know, because because the coach and again, this is listened to now. and 125 countries this podcast, and I know it's listened to by a lot of coaches, but how many coaches have you met in your time that I've wanted to work on develop players into the top 100 in the world? But then how many coaches have you met that are willing to do what it takes to develop coaches into being top 100 player in the world?

Stanford Evans Boster  44:27

Well, yeah, I would absolutely say you could you know, I'll tell you a funny story that I am not coaching against a lot of the guys that I my players were playing against and they'll see me on the road they're like holy hell you still have you have enough and like well, what else am I gonna do? You know, I mean, my life's good, my wife. We have a great life. This is what I do and as long as my body is going to enable me to do that, this is a lot of money keep doing that the passion Yeah, I mean I mean, we live vicariously through them. You know, every point, every forehand and this weakness and every point they win or lose the we win or lose the thing that I'm better at now, way better economic, because I think I was a little bit volatile when I was younger is that I'm very clear. And what are we looking for from the player. So I detach the emotional part, I still live the match, like the excitement, the ups and downs, the nerves. But I don't get emotional about the match. Because I know exactly what I'm looking for, like, I'm on the forehand, on the backhand on the identity on the strategy on the body language on the hydration. So when the kid comes off the court or the player, I know, the first of all, I always let them speak my never speak first. Unless, unless I can see they're in a really bad way, then I'd have to pick them up pretty quickly. I let them speak. And most of the times after I've been with a kid for a while, I think that a lot of the guys are 2122. They actually give me all the answers that I've seen. There's not a lot to discuss. So I talked for five minutes, and then boom, boom, you can get on with it. But if they don't maybe pick up on the things I talked to still very short because I don't have to hum and I don't have to come up with any BS. I'm very specific about what what are we trying to accomplish? And did you do it? Or did you not do it? And where did where specifically did it go wrong. And I think when you're very, very specific about these things, it's very easy to fix things. When you're not specific, it's a disaster to try to fix things. So my guy will come off. And I'll notice like just one shot, you know, maybe it's a running forehand, where the guy is not putting the defensive bullet to a guy's weakness. And he's trying to play a stupid shot or glory shot and like that cost in the math, but I'll go and work on that for 10 minutes afterwards. And the next day, you'll pretty much do it, you're like, Okay, running full. And this goes, you know, depending on where I am in the court, what type of ball I'm trying to deliver, he's got a clear idea, he might still screw it up with a good shots, he wants to screw it up. The other very, very clear idea. So I think, I think making plays, honestly, it is easy when you got a very clear idea. And when you look at the player, and you know that the player is going to play like this. And you're always going to make adjustments. I mean, you might have a vision for how a player is going to play but then six months down the road, you're like, doesn't have the ability to do some of the things I'm so I thought he was gonna do, but he does have other abilities. So, you know, we take a bit of a tangent on that. But I tell my guys all the time, then I think this is where I think coaching is actually very overrated is that you don't have to be good at everything. You've just got to be good at something. And if you look at I mean, you look at Dan Evans, and I love Dan Evans to death. When Dan made his run into the top 100 he still wasn't really coming over the backhand that much. I mean, I remember watching in Sydney when he had that very first one when he was there with Hilts and he started coming over the backhand a little bit more because you have to, you have to but still, if you look at how he beats Novak on Clay, what did he beat him with, coming over the backhand? Nope. It was the slice slice backhand. But in the ball three quarter court in a very uncomfortable position for Novak to come forward in, and and then of course dan's forehands good his you reads the game ridiculously well. So is then is he going to come over a topspin backhand return on breakpoint against Feliciano Lopez, no chance is standing up close. He's gonna chip it at the feet, and then it's gonna pass. This is what he's going to do. So is he good at everything? No, but he's damn good at something. And this is where I think coaches go very wrong as they tried to, like make people really good at everything. But they don't get, you know, very, very good at something simple.

Daniel Kiernan  48:57

And that's what happened with Stan. Just that's what happened with Lee Childs.

Stanford Evans Boster  49:02

Yeah, they tried to make him a baseliner.

Daniel Kiernan  49:04

I mean, he just absolutely wellied the ball. Serve and forehand, his backhand he was okay. chipping it but couldn't hit over it. And yeah. And they and and if we take that story, I think it's a great example because he was beating Andy Roddick. You know, he was he was 17 he was already 350 in the world ATP, he beat Sargis Sargsian  who was what 65 in the world at the time when he was 17 in an ATP Tour event in Brighton. You know, he was he was doing it with his strengths. And then they spent 6, 12 months working on the weaknesses on a clay court for 12 months. And he lost his he lost his X Factor a little bit so I completely get what you're saying. And I think there's a lot of lot of relatable relatable stories on that as well. Who Who's the who's the best player you've worked with or been around? And known very well who hasn't made it?

Stanford Evans Boster  50:09

Cool. I mean, I can tell you that there are a couple of like Jameer Jenkins. Oh my god, what this guy could do is scary. I mean, he's ranking moved up quick. I mean, I that he'd been when I was with him, he beat Kokkinakis. And I think the semis have a challenger. And it's quite funny because Kokkinakis. You know, big forehand and, and one of Kok's biggest forehands is inside out but he loves his crosscourt forehand. And he hates losing his cross court forehand ready. And when you play Jameer Jenkins, who's faster than Usain Bolt, you are not going to win that forehand crosscourt exchange.. But he lost it over and over and over. And Thanasi's coach is a good mate of mine. And we started watching it again. And it's like, it's like I wonder if at some stage, he's gonna realize that Jameer is one of the fastest guys out there. And he's losing 100% of these exchanges. He's like, nope, you gotta keep doing it. And it was so funny because he lost me. I remember Jameer, he made it Aussie Open, I can't remember who he beat first round be Khachanov on a hard court, Khachanov is a very good hard court player, very good kitty corner. And then it went last last round to a German guy forgot there but but basically didn't play well. But I felt if he qualified there for that, that Aussie Open any wins around the to get some self belief. This guy could have been good, like, really, really good. And this is a couple of others. And you know, even a guy like Noah Rubin, you know, there was Noah quality to the Aussie, beyond potentially life coach for four years. And then played Federer a second round on Laver and lost the first I think six, four. And I think the second was a little easier. And then the third was five two up and he had some chances. I think he had some set points. That's the fifth didn't look like he was going to win and he did win it. And Noah, you know, you could say well, okay, the smaller guy, not a lot of weapons and stuff like that. But I actually had him playing like Big Boy tennis, serving big dominating with a forehand. You know, the thing about Noah, he was comfortable on that court, like, obviously, I never played God knows what playing Federer was like. And you would think, well, it could be a little bit intimidating. He lapped it up. He loved it. So he was born for that stuff. I mean, him and I'm really coming off and it goes, Man, everything felt so slow out there. I felt like I had all the time in the world. I'm like, really against Roger. But I think Noah could have been pretty good as well.

Daniel Kiernan  52:56

And in your experience of these people that aren't making it what, or if you were to give kind of two or three non negotiables of things that you need to have the guys that have made their way through. And the guys that haven't, what would what would they be?

Stanford Evans Boster  53:15

No, I think scheduling is a big thing. I've seen players make been made or broken by scheduling. As simple as that you not choosing the right surfaces, the right times went to per se. So I think scheduling gets in the way a lot. I think while I'm in the biggest one. And this is why I'm I'll probably get crucified. But you know, I'm pretty much known for being not very choose my words wisely here, not very accommodating of parental involvement. To put it lightly, I completely appreciate the parents, I completely respect that they are the ones that are paying the bills on these things. But it's the one voice thing, it's the one voice. If you have more than one voice in your head, you have almost no shot at doing this because it gets clouded quickly. I need to be that voice. As simple as that. If a parent wants to come through me on that to be a part of that I completely welcome it. But I can't control what's being said at home. And so many times what's being said at home is totally contradictory to the voice that I am. So that for me is a non negotiable, if I'm going to do it, and I have extra relationships and really quickly I mean with with guys that are good. Like if I feel that I'm not in control, and it's not even a control thing. It's just like, if I'm going to be held accountable for your son's progress and you're paying me I'm not cheap, you're going to pay me decent money, then I want to be accountable, but I can't be accountable if there's multiple voices in the head. So I think that's the primary one because we With the with the multiple voices, you're going to have multiple identities, you're going to have multiple states of minds. A real simple topic of conversation is how you look at things language, like I hate when parents or people use the words, child, I never use the word child never. Because that becomes a problem. You know, I'm not a sports psychologist by any stretch of the imagination, but I am through experience. And I've definitely said the wrong things plenty of times in my life. But I've now learned how to say, get the message through without making anything a big deal. And I've no I don't one of the biggest things that I see parents going one is scenario crafting. What is that? My own little terminology is like, Oh, you always do this. When you when you're sitting a breakup, you always lose sight of the next game on who's creating this problem? Exactly. Yeah, labeling, very good term. Use that as well. Scenario naming drives me nuts, like, I would never do it, I see it happening, I see the trends happening. But to me, it's like there is another person on the other side of the court, which means that somebody else is going to have some influence on what actually happens after you're a break up and a set up, and whatever it is. So you don't have full say on that yet. There's a labeling, there's a scenario that's, and this becomes a problem with the kids. And you can see them sort of thinking about this stuff. And with the way I've coached my guys, this, that'll never have happened, never have happened. And I'll coach them around, if you are used situations a lot with my guys. Like, they'll be in a situation and they'll lose and they didn't handle it well and bail going to maybe something that mentally medical, or mental or the physical side of the moment. It's situational. So you didn't handle this situation great. As in how does a guy like Novak Djokovic, why is he so good in every situation, it's pretty damn simple. He's been in that situation multiple times, I can promise you that he wouldn't be good at that situation if he wasn't in that situation. And I can also promise you that he has failed in that situation multiple times. So don't look at it as failure. Just like, Okay, this situation in this very situation, I have to get better at it. And I'm going to tick this one off and go, Okay, good. Let's add that to that. I've been in that situation one more time. Now, that doesn't mean the next time you're in that situation, you will come out with flying colors, you might fail again, it doesn't matter. You put yourself in situations enough, you actually become good at handling the situation. And this is where I think tennis is so simple, you know, you people are going to dissect this and go oh, man, you handled this bad he could have done this could have done that. You start psycho evaluating the player, you start discussing the players technique, what broke down, the language that you use with players can completely make or break them. So this is why the one voice thing it has to it has to be my voice. Because eventually, and you can tell me what your thoughts are on this. But a player doesn't make it at the end of the day, because they had a vision when they were eight, 910 years old. Yes, they had heroes, they maybe had grand visions of being a pro per se. But it was somebody else's vision. That became the vision it was somebody else's voice that became that voice now and a lot of times that is apparent. But in the woman's side of it, and the men's side of it doesn't happen that much. But it does. There are some you know, sometimes that happens. And yeah, there's voice thing is like, if you look at a guy like you know, Roger, and you take Peter Carter, um, you can't tell me that every single day Roger stepped on the tennis court. There's not a big part of Peter Carter's voice in his head. You can't tell me that.

Daniel Kiernan  59:03

So those two things of scheduling non negotiable, one voice non negotiable, at what age would you would you put an age on that? I know you're doing most of your work with 16 Plus players? Would you have an opinion on that those two things starting at a at a younger age than 16.

Stanford Evans Boster  59:25

The minute I start with you, it doesn't matter what age you are, those are the things that kick in. And once again, is like I have plenty of good working relationships with parents, but I've also had bad ones and it's not personal. I'm just like, listen, is that the language you use for your kid? And then the classic I hear all the time is like, Oh, well we never talk tennis at home or we don't really talk about it. But when the kid shows up on the court the next day and he's had a bad practice you know a parent has seen you know, there's been tennis talk, you know, so you know I was like, if you can pay me, let me do my job. And my job is just let me be the voice now, I'm very prepared to maybe educate's the wrong word. But to enlighten you as to what language I do use with the players. And if you want to now, reinforce that language with a player, I completely welcome that. But I'm not interested in your own interpretation of that. Now, I know it's your son or your daughter, and you know, your son or your daughter better than you than I will ever know them. And that's 100% sure, but what I can promise you I know better than you is the journey that I can promise you. I've been, I've been through this journey now. With how many players and for how many years, and I've made mistakes, God knows plenty of mistakes, or things I would go and do differently in a second ride around. And often tell parents this and I often tell my players is that I might not be the best coach in the world, boils back down to the whole coaching is overrated. But I have a ton of stories to tell you a ton of stories like I mean, I can give you scenarios for almost every single person that's become a player when they were 16 years, 18 years, 20 years, you know, whatever. Because I've seen it, I've seen most of these players come through. And I draw from that. I mean, I use that I'm always using that experience of my guys, I'm like this, this player at this stage was at this level, he did this, he did that. I mean, giving somebody a good forehand to serve a backhand, teaching them to trust themselves. That's huge. With me that trust factor is massive to trust your, your coach, Trust yourself, trust the process. The coaching honestly, is overrated. That's why again, I come back to say is like, I don't think it's that difficult to make a top 100 player. I've been able to travel this journey. And that's why I'm I know what I'm looking for, I'm very confident in what I'm looking for. So when I get somebody that I'm looking at, well, this is not going to happen for this player. I'm very honest, I met this and this is where you're at. This is probably a best case scenario for you, however, prove me wrong, who knows what you can do. Because we come back to the situation thing is like, you don't know what somebody can do, until you put them in a situation, you just don't know. And you'll be looked at you look at correct. So if you know that running the Aussie Open, come on. You don't know what somebody can do. I put them in a situation and somehow they find something within themselves that they're like, wow, I actually can do this

Daniel Kiernan  1:02:41

Really good Stan. I tried to ask the questions that I think the listeners might be thinking. And you've said a couple of times, you're not cheap. You know you you've also had extensive experience of working for a governing governing body, the USTA, which I'd like to get to in a minute. If I share something that Facu Lugones, Cameron Norrie's coach said on the podcast, he said that he doesn't think that anybody doesn't make it for financial reasons. He said, That's bullshit. He said, that's an excuse. He said, it might take you a bit longer if you don't have the finance. So so how, how do you simplify the journey? When you can't afford a coach to be on the road? And you don't have a Federation's backing, to have the coaches on the road? How for those players out there someone that's sitting at 500, 600 in the world, whatever it might be, and they're thinking shit, I'm not sure they've, they're like you, they've got that 250 bucks in their pocket. They're planning their next trip, but they're doing it completely on their own. How does that person simplify the journey through through the ranks? And I guess how do you go against that? Compared to what you're seeing how simple it would be to be a top 100 player? If you've got someone in your corner all the time?

Stanford Evans Boster  1:04:11

Well, you're gonna have to have a coach and that coach, I mean, you almost never gonna make it without a coach now, you know, there's there's multiple scenarios of guys helping players really for very little money until they make it and then it's payback time. You know, sometimes, you know, yeah, take the Osaka thing. I don't know what happened there. But, you know, that guy apparently worked for three years. I don't know the ins and outs, you know, I've just I just follow the story. So I would agree with that. If you really want to do this take to Australia. That's it. Example rugby was coaching. You think Chris O'Connell couldn't run at the Aussie Open. I met Chris when he was 17 years old, got in a Challenger in Burton Australia and he actually played Mitchell Krueger who I was coaching at the time. He beat Mitchell, decent player, relatively talented but no money, none. And then he got injured multiple times. Do you know what he was doing? I don't know if you've read the story. And of course, Marinko Matosevic who I coached. Marinko came from nothing. There's another classic example. I mean, he basically came from nothing, and basically just wanted to make it. Well, when I was coaching when helping Marinko, I was charging him, Jesus, it was nothing, was bare minimum, because Mark Cambridge, the Aussie player, who was his full time coach and basically said, Listen, can you help make lindo and Marinko for a couple of weeks before the French? But they really don't have any money? Can you do it for 500 bucks a week? Yeah, cool. No problem. Well, there were two reasons I did it, number one, because I liked them. And number two, because I had some younger guys I could use as hitting partners. And who is that going to benefit? Big time my younger guys? So yeah, for me, when I say I'm expensive, there's plenty of times I've worked for free. I've got, I haven't charged people, I'll help you know. And I still do that. And I still help people today, if you really can't do it, I'll help you out. But you really got to prove to me, you know, like, both parents need to be working. You know, I can't say oh, we don't have the money. But then your parents are saying that, let's call it well, then I'm not interested. You know, I can see if you're struggling, you're not struggling. So I still help people. But you take take Chris O'Connell, he scrubbed boats for two years, he scrubbed the barnacles off boats, and it was during COVID as well. And you look at the runny head. Now, there's also you know, so if you really want to do this, you can do that. It's it's very tough to say to guys go and get a job, and you got to try to play at the same time. But if that's what you need to do, that's what you need to do. But the thing that you cannot do without is the coach, you can go and find the money or your time because it is impossible to self reflect. I see guys out there in the futures to and they're using GoPros. And they watching the matches afterwards. It's nice difference. Yeah, you see it from the outside, which one we're looking for? Do you really know what you're looking for? And a lot of times, I'll have guys who I love talking tennis as to you. I'll be in a tournament and the guy that will come to me and he goes, Yeah, you know what, I go play a beat me. And what do you think, you know, and I'll sit down with them and have a conversation for like, hours. And they'll walk away and I can't Jesus? I'm so far off. I'm like, I didn't see. I didn't see any of that. But I said, Listen, once again, coaching is overrated doesn't mean I'm right. It's the way I see it. Doesn't mean it's right. But I think if you can get these things organized, you can be a pretty good player.

Daniel Kiernan  1:07:28

And to prove that point as well, Stan 2012 Flushing Meadows, I had a conversation with you. And we were talking around Josh Ward Hibbett. Josh was people talked about Josh being a great server. And you didn't directly say this about Josh. But I think indirectly you were you were sending a message to me, which was the right message is that you told me it really gets on your nerves, when people talk about people being great servers. Because the serve hard, you know, and until you're able to hit spot after spot after spot, with your eyes closed, you are not a great server. And then on the back of that conversation, Stan, I actually over the next six to nine months, I actually took the stats of Josh, because I guess at that at that time, he was he'd served the fastest ever serve at Wimbledon for a junior and it was all this kind of noise. But he can't return Dan he can't return. That's where everyone was what was telling me so I thought I'm gonna get a little bit of something behind this. And over the next six, nine months, he held serve 72% of his service games. And he broke serve 23. Now I call it the 105% rule. Basically, to be winning at any level, you've got to be winning 105% of your serve and return games. And also John Isner is 96 hold, nine break, Dan Evans is about 77 hold 28 break. Now Josh Ward Hibbett, but the type of player he was 23% breaks was good. You know, he was he was it didn't look pretty, didn't look pretty, but he used his athletic ability to get the ball in court and hustle. But the bottom line is he wasn't holding serve well enough. You know, and, and yes, he could serve hard. And that's something that I've taken through. And, you know, I always appreciated those conversations that we had. And I hope that I'll have many more with you over the years, Stan, but I think again, for coaches, too many coaches, and players go to these events and they don't open up and have these conversations, because this is these this is the place where we're all learning all the time, you know, and that's been the beauty of this podcast for me as well. So I never Got a thank you for that conversation. But thank you for that conversation almost 10 years ago now, that's scary.

Stanford Evans Boster  1:10:05

I remember. Well, the thing is, nobody sees it all. I think if you ever come across a coach that cut in a lot of guys, you come across that they, they come across and they know it all. I love one of the reasons I think the USTA job was because I felt I flatlined, I completely stopped learning, I had done my own thing for a long time. And it was the best decision of my life to go to work for the USTA, first eight years, I grew exponentially, like the way I saw the game that just having coaches around, you're talking tennis all the time. And now I'm back working for myself for the last three, four years. And I'm not making the same mistake. Because what I'm doing now is talking more tennis with other coaches, and I'll bring in guys to watch my players like, I'm big into tapping into other coaches a lot of times on, what I do with my system is that I, I always have three to four players. In other words, I'm not dependent on on an individual, financially on one individual. So therefore, if the parents don't play along, you can leave. If for some reason that the player and I are soaring tonight, maybe we're not getting the best out of each other, I don't have to try to keep you for financial reasons, I don't need it, I have three or four guys, I have always had three or four guys. And I'm it's like, it's like, if one goes, there's somebody waiting to come in. And I'm not, that's not arrogant, it's the benefit is that I always have guys to practice against, we always have three or four guys, they are a team, you're only as good as the people around you know, you're only the chain is only as strong as its weakest link. So when we're traveling as a team, and one guy who loses, and then a buddy of yours that you normally beat goes and chops up a really good player, hang on. Now, I've drubbed this guy in practice, well, I beat him regularly, and he's just beaten this guy that I lost, it is big reward in that. But the system works well, because I'm never dependent on your money. And the players feel that. And then the massive advantages, like when you're traveling, you have four guys splitting expenses, this becomes huge. And you know, you grew up, you know, with other, the other Brits, maybe you have a bad day, and you come and your body's a little sore. And you've got a bit of a crappy attitude, and the other guys will get on your case. Whereas if you're just one on one with a coach, you know, you kind of kind of work through it, you know, like none of the other guys are not going to let that happen. Many, many, many benefits of that. No,

Daniel Kiernan  1:12:38

Absolutely, the one thing that jumps in my head there those standards, what happens and obviously you've seen this over the years, I think we both have that one player starts to spike into different levels, you know, which which is which is naturally going to happen, you know, how do you manage manage the ups and downs of that because tennis is never perfect. You know, everyone's not gonna stay at the same ranking, everyone's not gonna play the same tournaments will start to feel a bit jealous that maybe you're giving a bit more time to to X, Y or Z. You know, how are what advice would you give coaches when they when that starts to happen?

Stanford Evans Boster  1:13:17

Just be fair, be fair. I mean, I'll give you this year. I two guys in Wimbledon juniors and I had one guy that was doing a futures in Florida. I mean, where would I rather be? You know, I mean, that's not true either. And stuff like Where would I rather be,  Wherever I am, I am, I'm happy. I could be in a local park and I'll be happy. But it is a Grand Slam. You know, that'd be a new day with two young guys. And I was super happy. My guy started playing really well beating a guy to add like on play. They're not really a clique or player. So I 100% want to be there. But this tournament got dragged out with rain. They were dragged out dragged out Ratatouille, the quarters has been played on the Saturday. I couldn't even get to 1 million time to watch my guys play Monday. What do I do get on a plane and go to online? Well, I finish it out. I finish it out with my guy that's been the Futures. When you make good decisions and fair decisions, the players feel it as very simple as that. Yes, I make sure I spend equal time with the guys. I don't care if you're the higher end player. For the most part, I follow that the schedule is based around the higher a player, but if somebody needs to go somewhere else and the higher end players really confident. I mean, I've had my highest rank player go on the road now supposed to go with him. And it's like, I'm confident bro, I don't need you to come this week. I'm like, awesome. I'll go with I'll go with somebody else. You know, so it's just communication. The guys know like five six weeks in advance where I'm going to possibly go Yeah, things change. But just be fair.

Daniel Kiernan  1:14:50

My last topic because we've touched on it but I wouldn't feel right not to discuss this with you. It is a Federation, you were out the USDA for a few years. You're your South African, but you're embedded in, in American tennis. You know, you're, you've been around the American tennis now for a long time. Firstly, how was your time at the USTA?

Stanford Evans Boster  1:15:19

Phenomenal. phenomenal, absolutely loved it. As I said, I grew exponentially working with all these guys being around a guy like Jose Garrus or Jay Berger, Patrick McEnroe, and then having access to guys on that access to before, like spending time with Jim Courier or going to Vegas and spending time with Andre Agassi. Come on. wasn't gonna get those opportunities. So it created a world of opportunity for me. My boss was Jay Berger was the greatest guy to work for. I took the job in the same year that Roddy quit those 2012. And actually, I provide a warm up guys for Roddy for his warm up matches. And he goes, Man, it's pretty cool. You're going to work for them. But I think you're going to last maximum eight weeks, and you'll be fine. So last eight years. So I beat that. But the reason I lasted that eight years is because that because of Jay and my bosses and they they didn't mind an argument you can argue all you want. I mean, there were many times I would thought heads. But yeah, JB was He was amazing. Like, I remember one year, they were handing out wild cards for doubles of US Open and I won't get into players names, but they didn't give the one of my guys a double as wildcard and you've been promised one you know, and I promise guys stuff and then don't do it. And they were they reversed the decision. And I was on the practice court. Jay came walking up to me and I was just really put together I'm gonna fight for my players. I don't care if I lose my job, I'm gonna fight for you. And he came up to me, he started talking to me and I, you know, I didn't I didn't treat him well. And I remember when my 88 year old mom, she she comes down and stands with me. She was watching from a distance. And I basically just brushed him off on my desk and I gotta go, I got another practice over here. And I like doing this. And I remember walking away my mom goes like, well, I'm pretty, pretty, pretty sure you're gonna get fired. And then we walked back to the hotel that night. And all the coaches stay in the Hyatt. And I said to my mom, because my mom's is busy body wants to talk to everyone on my mom. Do not stop and look at anybody in the lobby because Jay will be there and I do not want to talk to him. It's like you just head forward to the elevator and we're up the stairs. Of course, nope, she can't do this. She walks to me and J is there and he's like, called me equalled me. Stan is like, stay standing standing. He wants to talk and I'm just ignoring him. I was like, Hi, Jay. I told you that's not didn't do that. So he comes up and says let's talk. I'm like, No, they're not otherwise. So plus, I don't want to talk to you. And then my mom's again, like, you definitely getting fired. So that we have a dinner. And it's a coach's dinner. And there's like two seats open in a corner. And I go and position myself like the furthest away I can from Jay. What does he do? Gets up from where he's sitting and comes in forces himself and the only damn seats available and he goes, now you can't get away. Yeah, because I think the thing is that he knew with me. I mean, I was gonna make some bad decisions. Sure. But he knew that I had the players' back. And I was going to do whatever it took when I first started doing USTA. They have no program. I mean, pretty much no program. There are two coaches in the pro department there was Tom Gullikson, who you have add on was legendary, and David Menken. By the time we left with 12 coaches in the pro section, we completely revived like turn that thing around. I remember being in Australia. Bradley Klein was one of my favorite guys. And that was a great success story, Jameer Jenkins, Mitchell Krueger and either for them and I'm looking at the Aussies are one on one. And I'm like none of them got to change. I brought in Robby Ginepri, I brought in Mike Russell. I got in, I bought Roddick and Fish to help you know every now and then I've bought Bryan Baker. And I'm like this has got to change. How are we not the biggest Federation. And we do not tap into any of our ex-players. None of our explains Jim Korea would do some work and we tap into that. I'm like, This is ridiculous. There is an intellectual value to this. Now we're not tapping into it. So we changed all that thing. And we got a lot of coaches and Craig points and came and worked and I said and then we started bringing all the ex American players in to change things and quite frankly, the era of Taylor Fritz, Tommy Paul Reilly Opelka and Jared Donaldson before he got injured and then Eric came out of that system. I don't give a damn what anybody says, I'm not I lived through it. I saw it happening. The coaches grinded, they got the kids on the road, they did the 25 to 30 weeks a year. And those kids came out of that system set up for the USTA experience was a phenomenal one. I don't know what's going on there. Now the program's completely disbanded doesn't exist. For whatever reason, I don't know what it is. But the Federation plays an integral part in developing of the American players. From a financial and infrastructure point futures the challengers is pretty much non existent right now.

Daniel Kiernan  1:20:37

That could be a podcast in itself. If I ask another question, I'm not gonna get the quick fire round in. Because I don't have any more time we have to do another podcast Stan, I've loved listening to this so many topics, subjects, I'd love to delve into even more. So thank you for for your honesty, your insights. But are you ready quick fire round, what does control the controllables mean to you?

Stanford Evans Boster  1:21:02

Very simple. I can I can break that up into about five different areas, control the controllables is if you want to be a good player, you got to be a great athlete. Make yourself a great, great athlete. You got to have two weapons, make those two weapons, you got to have ridiculous defense get good at defense, you'd have to be great out of the corners. The best players in the world are not gonna hit you off the court, but you put them in the corner. They are phenomenal out of the corner, you got to have ball speed. That's not it's a non negotiable. The forehand ball speed for the most part 75 miles an hour that backhands about 71. You don't have to serve at 140 If you can serve 120 And he just spots that's all you need. Those are control the controllables if you have those aspects of tennis together, becoming a top 100 player, it's not very difficult. As long as you believe in yourself and the coach around you believe in yourself. So those are things you can control 100% control and that's the way I would interpret that

Daniel Kiernan  1:21:58

Serve or return.

Stanford Evans Boster  1:22:00

Definitely serve for me it's just like the serve plus one, the mentality you know people say in a tie break they'd rather be a returner than a server. Possibly definitely serve

Daniel Kiernan  1:22:11

Forehand or backhand.

Stanford Evans Boster  1:22:13

Forehand any day of the week.

Daniel Kiernan  1:22:14

Clay courts are hard courts.

Stanford Evans Boster  1:22:17

I think the clay court game is going away at the side of play on players going away guys are playing a little bit more linear that's about speed you know, look at Novak winning the French I think clay's a great developmental tool. You look at Alcatraz coming through obviously doing very well under Ferrero I don't know how much time they spent on clay assume it's a fair amount, but it's a pretty damn good hard court player. So I'm pretty sure they're spending a fair amount of time at heart. So I think from developmental purpose clay is massive. If I had to develop the kid from 12 or 13 years old, I'd have them on the clay in the morning and the hard of the afternoon. Obviously this is not pre tournament this is just like a developmental stage. Because this game is about time and the clay courts don't allow you to necessarily it teaches you things like resilience, shot tolerance, you know patterns of movement, the sliding, but the clay a lot of times does not teach you some of the the whole aspect of the time aspect of it because tennis is about time how do I absorb time how to take time and the clay I don't think always teaches that stuff but I mean you know there are there are benefits to both if I had to choose just one that would be hard court.

Daniel Kiernan  1:23:28

Indoors or Outdoors

Stanford Evans Boster  1:23:30

Outdoors I hate indoors

Daniel Kiernan  1:23:32

Who's going to be the winner of the men's Australian Open 2022

Stanford Evans Boster  1:23:37

I'm going to go Medvedev

Daniel Kiernan  1:23:39

And the women's?

Stanford Evans Boster  1:23:42

Ash is looking pretty good

Daniel Kiernan  1:23:45

Medical timeout or not.

Stanford Evans Boster  1:23:47

Yeah, I think you need it I don't think bathrooms there's no difference between medical timeout and bathroom breaks and then and I think for the cramping I think you should be allowed if you guys are getting away with that. So yeah, the medical timeouts but I think I should also only be you know when I think I'm actually in this department I suck with regards to my knowledge of the rules, but there shouldn't be more than two you know, the initial consultation then one that maybe a follow up and then after that, I'm sorry, no more. I think that's the way it is. I'm not sure.

Daniel Kiernan  1:24:15

ATP Cup or Davis Cup.

Stanford Evans Boster  1:24:20

Davis Cup

Daniel Kiernan  1:24:21

Your favorite Grand Slam.

Stanford Evans Boster  1:24:24

So everybody gets hold me for this, but it's the ice open. I love the crowd down there. Craig Tiley does a phenomenal job of making the players feel good. Always going extra lengths, you know, whether it be like catering free restrings, or like five restrings for the juniors. It doesn't matter. They feel important. You know, so like a lot of times we've gotten to the prize money debate where Craig would pay more in Aussie dollars. Also in the package when you package like his prize money could be more. But when you put his package together that actually equated the same as the US Open. This is what I was So when I was working for the USTA, but now you look at them, and he's been a leader in in increasing prize money, I think the first round prize money this year is $170,000. Is that what, like 70,000 years? I don't know if that's right, but that somebody said something like that, which is, so it shouldn't be. I mean, you can't be a top 100 player and not making money. You know, being a Grand Slam player. So the Craig's been the leader, he's made that facility ridiculous. Yet every time you go down, there's a new indoor court and when you show court, and you feel special there, so definitely my favorite. You want to go next favorites?

Daniel Kiernan  1:25:34

No, because you don't have much time. Who my last question, who should be our next guest and control the controllables?

Stanford Evans Boster  1:25:43

Have you had Grosjean on?

Daniel Kiernan  1:25:45

don't know. I would love garage channel. Yeah.

Stanford Evans Boster  1:25:50

Prety cool guy, very charismatic. I'll tell you a guy that I think is a damn good coach. But you've probably heard him on is Liam Smith. I think he's done a great job.

Daniel Kiernan  1:25:57

I haven't I haven't had Liam on. Okay, sure. Get on with it. Very, very

Stanford Evans Boster  1:26:01

good. Another guy's really, really good coach, Grant Doyle. I don't know if you've a grind, but he's also one of my favorite coaches. So those would be those, those three.

Daniel Kiernan  1:26:12

I'll be in touch for all three. See, see if you see what you see what your hookups like Stan. And my last last last last question. I have Mardy Fish coming on this later this week. Give me one question to ask Mardy.

Stanford Evans Boster  1:26:31

It could be a question. You probably didn't actually know. Stay away from that question. He doesn't want to answer that so well. No, this was a bit of a naughty one there. So stay away from them. I never put him on a spot. I don't know how you would get to this. But I'm very big on confidence and teaching pretty confidence in my plan. And I remember Mardy said to me, the one day we're talking about he was at a play somebody I like that guy sucks. Man. You play you're playing. I don't mean it condescending even. I'm like, he sucks. This is the way you play. Boom, boom, boom. And then he said to me after this, like, just to get this right. Is it? It seems like everybody we play sucks. Is that right? I'm like, Yeah, that's right. It is okay, good. Now that I know that it's easy. So that's a question for him.

Daniel Kiernan  1:27:25

that'd be awesome and I need I now need to work on my my chatting my chat or skills to see if I can bring this through with with Mardy on on Wednesday. So But Stan you get to the courts. But not before I get to say a massive massive thank you for giving you giving your time up. I loved that conversation. And I'll be listening back. I even found myself making notes as we were going and I think for any coaches out there that it's a real note takers episode because someone who's been there is living it is has lived it for many years and remains to be living at well done on your passion that you still have firing and good luck with your guys. They're very lucky to have you in your in their corner.

Stanford Evans Boster  1:28:14

Thank you, Dan. I really appreciate it.

Daniel Kiernan  1:28:16

And it's great to have Vicki beside me again. Your your first episode of 2022 I believe?

Victoria Kiernan  1:28:24

My first one and I am happy because that was chock full of stories and we ended 2021 And I was talking about how I love my favorite episodes are always wants to stories. But Stan has started the year off awesome. I thought that was brilliant. But not only stories, so much advice in there so much. And I know that was a long episode. But we wanted to keep it rolling because there was just so many gems in there.

Daniel Kiernan  1:28:51

How many notepads did you go through the obsessive tennis parent over there? I'm sure you were scribbling away.

Victoria Kiernan  1:28:59

Even at the last bit in the How would you define control the controllables then he just dropped all these amazing tips. I was like, Good defense, be good at the corners. That was brilliant.

Daniel Kiernan  1:29:09

Be a good athlete two great weapons, and make sure that you're good in defense, you know, they're they're stored in my brain, as I'm sure that they're stored in many of your brains as well, because he he kept saying it didn't he kept saying it's it's easy. It's not hard to produce top 100 players in the world and in our sport, we look at that as the Holy Grail. So what do you reckon? Do you reckon you could try your hand at producing a top 100 player in the world now that you you have all of this amazing advice?

Victoria Kiernan  1:29:41

Well I think we should send over Matthew our 11 year old and see test that theory of his.

Daniel Kiernan  1:29:47

I don't think you would last two minutes you know that South African rugby background, you know, but I think I think on that the confidence that he exudes on that is obviously picked up by his players as well. And I think we can over complicate this sport. But it's like anything, isn't it? It's once you've done something, it's never seems that hard, you know, and he's obviously got the advantage of being fair play to him. He's been involved in some amazing tennis journeys, obviously, notably Andy Roddick, Mardy Fish, but now he's done it. It's like, Well, okay, we can we can do that, again, that can be replicated. And and I love that he had his three non negotiables as well. You know, I think for parents listening, and for coaches listening, I think those three non negotiables would be great advice to take on board as well.

Victoria Kiernan  1:30:41

Why are you giving me that face?

Daniel Kiernan  1:30:43

Well, I want to test you, I want to, I want to, I want to test you, I want to see how how much you've been listening, not just mind numbingly editing, I want to see if you're taking this information on board.

Victoria Kiernan  1:30:54

Well, like I said, I've been writing down notes. So hit me

Daniel Kiernan  1:30:57

What are the what are the three non negotiables?

Victoria Kiernan  1:31:02

The three non negotiables as a parent or for him

Daniel Kiernan  1:31:05

That he gave. He gave three non negotiables. That to be to be a tennis player?

Victoria Kiernan  1:31:08

One voice? Was that one?

Daniel Kiernan  1:31:15

Yeah, he talked about that a lot. And you talked about that in detail. I think that'll be a hard one for some parents to stomach. Because I think as parents, we think we have all the answers and we want to get involved. Whereas whereas Actually, why would you bring someone on board that has so much experience, and then start telling them what to do. And I think the subtlety that he talked about the subtlety of language, the subtlety of that consistent language, and way that you're talking to your children plays a big, big, big role in how they end up being and how their mindset ends up being. So if you are in this business, you're going along this journey, you've got people around you who you trust, then make sure that that is the voice that your child is hearing along this journey, you know, and I think that was something you wouldn't mess with Stan with. And I think he comes from a position of strength where he's quite quickly going to say, adios, if if he ever doesn't go the way that he wants it to as well.

Victoria Kiernan  1:32:20

I loved what he was taught when he was talking about scenario crafting and and how you're talking to your children. I thought that was brilliant advice. Okay, number two, scheduling. I actually wrote down in my many, many notes. I've seen players be made or broken by scheduling.

Daniel Kiernan  1:32:38

Yeah. That's a one that I regret not delving into more. And I think if we get Stan on again, that's something I would like to ask him a little bit more about. We do know that scheduling is important. But I would have loved to have known a little bit more detail about what he meant by that. And at what age what age does that then become important. I know, he said, at any age that he starts working with, but I guess if you take the Spanish players as an example, they don't really think of their scheduling until a little bit later. So that's the second one now, noo looking here. What about the third one?

Victoria Kiernan  1:33:19

Well, I've got like, 15 down here.

Daniel Kiernan  1:33:22

There was only three. But he mentioned, I'll give you a clue. He mentioned the third one, as also one of the things in the Control the controllables at the end of the episode, and I've got

Victoria Kiernan  1:33:34

all of them written down. So which one do you want? I've got make yourself great athlete. You've got to have great defense, you've got to be good at the corners. You've got to have ball speed. I'm gonna go with defense. No, he also he he also said that I really liked find one thing Oh God, whereas I've got so many.

Daniel Kiernan  1:33:57

Sorry, listeners. Two weapons.

Victoria Kiernan  1:34:02

Oh, two weapons is the one I didn't mention.

Daniel Kiernan  1:34:06

Exactly. So but he said that he said that on a number of occasions. And I actually very fortunate to have spoken to Stan about this. And he talked to me a lot about developing Roddick, and we touched on it a little bit in the episode. But it was like if he's going to be a player, he has to have two amazing weapons. And he has to have an unbelievable serve not just a hard surf, but a surf that hits spots. repeatably and then he needs to have a massive forehand. And I think if you take Andy Roddick, he is a great example of someone that has made an incredible career off two super weapons. The serve was out of this world. The forehand was out of this world. I think we all can admit probably the backhand was a little bit shoddy. For the level that he was. And there you go, he's gone. He's won grand slams, and he's been number one in the world. So the two weapons is a big one. The mentality around and how you develop them. One, there is also a big one, Paul Annacone speaks a lot about that work on the strengths, make the strengths, super strengths, you know, get your player thinking about that. And I think naturally as coaches and as parents, we're always trying to fill the gaps of things that the players can't do. But we need to keep filling them with that confidence of what they can do. And I, I absolutely love that. And like I say, He inspired me to be a better coach inspired me to want to start playing again and having him as my coach. So quite brilliant guest.

Victoria Kiernan  1:35:32

He really was, and I hope you enjoyed it as much as we did. I'm sure we'll be discussing it the rest of the week and the Australian Open. We've been talking about that non stop some amazing matches this year. Have you missed Djokovic?

Daniel Kiernan  1:35:45

To be honest, since since the first ball and I genuinely mean this, since the first balls been hit. I haven't thought about them. I haven't. And when you when you think about what a massive, massive global story it was leading in, doesn't it just show human beings we kind of we kind of crack on with things and we we don't we don't tend to care about some things for for too long. And and has I'm with you. I think we could talk for another 20 minutes about what an amazing Australian Open it's been. It's going to be fascinating the next few days. I actually love the Australian Open as well at weekends Australian Open final weekend. It goes hand in hand with a bit of a lazy family Morning, watching watching roundabout 11 o'clock in the morning. And it's really is a great event. Wish I wish that I was there. I wish that we were there. But maybe maybe next year. But we will be picking that up with our amazing panel, who I'm bringing together for early next week. So we'll be bringing that to you at the end of next week. And after that I can give you a couple of names to whet the appetite. Our number 151 episode is going to be Dan Smethurst who was the coach to Joe Konta. He was a top British player for many years knows the game very well. It is a fantastic guest to have. And you might have noticed I missed out 150 You know we like to we like to stamp our big events. Our 100th, our 150th episode with a brilliant guest. And tomorrow I will be in the company of Mardy Fish, which is going to be an incredible experience for myself. Now, we've been talking now for a few months and I'm really pleased to say that he I'm going to be bringing him to you unless something goes wrong in the next in the next 24 hours. Don't jinx it here. But that will be our 150 of guests coming to you in a couple of weeks time. So another one to look forward to. Please let all of your friends know let people in the sport know about this podcast. We love having you as our part of our community and we look forward to bringing many more guests throughout 2022 But until next time, I'm Dan Kiernan and we are Control the Controllables